#912 Dead Chuffed About Ryan Taylor

Ryan Taylor has type 1 diabetes and I love the way he thinks about type 1.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 912 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show I'm joined by Ryan Taylor. Ryan has type one diabetes, and he's a reality TV show Star in the UK. If you're listening from England, then he's just a reality TV show Star. While you wait to find out if I offer Ryan a rose, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. I was 1,000,000% Sure I was going to call this episode as happy as Larry. But Ryan just man he was just so good. And I I'll admit later in the episode, you'll hear me say that I it's not what I expected from him. He was terrific. This conversation about type one was masterful. And that's why the episode is called dead chuffed about Ryan Taylor, because I am pleased about Ryan Taylor. Just what a lovely time thanks to a couple of people from the UK in my private Facebook group for confirming that dead chuffed about Ryan Taylor means pleased about Ryan Taylor. You guys are terrific too. All right, you're ready to get started.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Find out more about the contour next gen the Contour Next One and the entire line of contour products at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Use my link support the show you can buy them right there. You'll see when you get there. The podcast is sponsored today by better help. Better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. Better help.com forward slash juicebox to get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy that way better help can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox links in the audio player you're listening in right now. Right and then show notes of the audio player and at juicebox podcast.com. To contour BetterHelp and all the sponsors

Ryan Taylor 2:40
Yeah, UK Joyce I guess obviously America is the podcast bigger in America, UK. How's it go?

Scott Benner 2:46
Well, it we're just gonna actually why don't we just start Brian, and we'll fill in the rest as we go. So, overwhelmingly, the podcast. It really, really does well in the United States. But oh, cool. Yeah, but there are there are countries where it does strong, like, like, very strong. So I don't know how to put this like in a way that somebody who doesn't track this stuff would would understand. But Apple, Apple takes categories for podcasts, there's yeah, there's a main category. And then there's a subcategory. So I'm in the main category health and fitness. And then in the subcategory medicine. So, okay, so because you got to pick one of them. So I'm looking here so in Great Britain, I am number 45 in the medicine category today,

Ryan Taylor 3:49
last month is crazy. But there's loads of countries you won't even think of so like my tick tock when I first started it I just have a specific diabetic once and like I was going like crazy viral in like Budapest throughout France. There was some videos I got way I got like 4 million views and it was all in like random regions. And like at the start I'm now finally my audience is sort of majority UK and America which is cool. But at the start I'd say I was having to translate in the comments stuff I was saying basically put a transcript and is many different languages possible because my audience at the start was majority random countries like wondering when you would think diabetes is probably bigger.

Scott Benner 4:30
Yeah, so because I have the screen open to answer your first question. This is gonna take like 20 seconds. Okay, but yeah, this podcast is currently charting in Malawi, Turks and Caicos, Brunei, Nambia Bahrain, Moldova, Cambodia, Qatar, Malta, Latvia, Egypt, Luxembourg, Iceland, Kenya, Bulgaria, Nigeria, Slovakia Kuwait, Vietnam, Slovenia, Greece, Romania, the Czech Republic, it's not the Czech Republic. It's Czech Republic, United Arab, Emirates, Hungary, Chile, Thailand, Finland, Israel, Argentina, Hong Kong, Philippines, Belgium, India, South Africa, Switzerland, Italy, New Zealand, Netherlands, Japan, Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Mexico, Spain, Sweden, France, Australia, Canada, Great Britain in the US.

Ryan Taylor 5:26
is crazy, isn't it? Yes, well, it's actually net, you already have a thing. I know how it's I lived in America for a short period of time, basically came back and forth from the staff about probably eight to nine months. And I only ever think of like how it is for Americans, obviously. No, it's very different compared to at least getting your medication in the UK. So you never think that I wouldn't want to cite to people in some of them, like Egypt, like, how did they manage that, but you said they have dou f CGM. And now it's like the same insulin like you wouldn't even think stuff like that. But obviously, it's a disease, which was it one in 14, you now have a form of diabetes. So you just got to be worldwide, isn't it?

Scott Benner 6:03
Yeah. And because a lot of the a lot of the technology that people desire is US based. And those and those companies do not have an easy time getting set up overseas. And then on top of you know what I mean, and then on top of all that, there's an expense to set up and there's probably a cost analysis where they say, I don't know, we can't afford to get into this country, you would be surprised by mostly its UAE, Bahrain, like Brunei, like in their Qatar, I get a lot of emails from people who are like, I'm going to leave the country and buy supplies, and then fly back again. And they and they're trying to make a plan to the some people, there's there were somebody on here, once that, that regularly flies into the US, buys supplies in cash, and then just flies back again.

Ryan Taylor 7:02
That's crazy to me. I know, there's a way there's obviously the price cuts going on at the minute in America. And it's obviously if you have insurance, it's totally different. But my biggest fear, I was the opposite. So obviously in the UK, we get everything, Skype via the NHS, which is great. So I when I was working in America, I happened to forward during COVID. I was in Miami. And the big decision for me was obviously no one knew how long that whole period of time would last. We got told on the news, it might be a three week lockdown or whatever. And my mom was saying to me she's like, You got to take into consideration review. It's different because it's not just free if you get stuck out there the whole summer and there's no flights home how much is your insulin requirements? How much is you see gems and costs. And when we price it all, it was far more worthwhile to get a flight from America even at the prices they were going to at that point to get a flight home just in case and obviously ended up lasting what couple years. So thank God I did. But yeah, so crazy people will fly to America. But to me when I hear I get tagged in some stuff on tick tock some people saying how much they paid for their medication this month, and I feel sick when you see it because it's not, I don't think medication in general you should pay for but then when you see people paying 1000 pounds for an autoimmune disease of medication, which keeps them alive. You can see why people do stupid things like not inject the right amount or find us as little instant as possible, which then makes themselves Yeah, that's when you paying that much for it. Like, you can see why people are doing stupid stuff.

Scott Benner 8:27
Yeah, I think it's not just money. But I think it turns into a rationing mentality, where they're just like, run out of this. You know, what's worse than not taking it off? Not taking any. And so yeah, so I'll just keep stretching. I mean, it's horrible. Now, I don't know how where are you? You know, why don't we do this? Why don't we tell everybody who you are before we keep talking?

Ryan Taylor 8:54
Yeah, let's do this. Let's do introduce yourself. So I'm Brian Taylor. I'm 26 years old. I'm from the UK. It's a small city in the UK. We won't know it's Coventry. But the closest that you will know to it is London. Yeah, I've had diabetes since I was 10 years old and just made the best of it. I'd say I'd say I'm definitely one big thing I preach on social media. And the work I've done with diabetes UK is the worst thing you can tell a diabetic person is they can't do something because of that condition. I think I've always tried to show him that through maybe lifestyle choices, career choices. I've definitely tried to do as many things that people wouldn't think diabetics could do. And I guess that's what sort of drives me now.

Scott Benner 9:37
Yeah. How did we end up hooking up? How did you get on the podcast?

Ryan Taylor 9:43
I reached out to Joe was, I got a reminder, a week ago, about a month ago, I think it was go on the Juicebox Podcast podcast and I was like, sort of what I looked at it and it was a reminder from a year ago I was booked on it, but it was that the About that much of a backlog of people coming on here. It was June last year. I think it was in the UK it was called, like word diabetes week. Or it might be worth diabetes. No, no, it's always worked out easily. And at that point, my agent had got me a load of podcast to do diabetes ones to I've never really been big on sharing diabetes on social media. I wasn't, I was never sort of first to hide that diabetes. If you knew me knew I had it. But I wasn't I wouldn't go out there openly talk about it. And then thinking about your government decision up or not. So last year, I remember she booked us on about three, four or five different diabetes podcast. I think this was one of them. But it was you had that much of a backlog of people. This was the next day, which was

Scott Benner 10:45
you should be on my side, bro. Oh, my God. No, I would love to do that. Here's a link. Describe the first thing you can get. I said that to someone last night who emailed me back and said, I mean, it's March right now. 2023. And the person who emails me back and says, Okay, well, I'll see you around Thanksgiving. It's like, great.

Ryan Taylor 11:03
Yeah, it was literally about that long ago. But yeah, it was really cool. Obviously. One of the podcasts I've only listened to anyway. There's definitely a few that I think are really good. And yeah, just it's cool. To be honest, excellent.

Scott Benner 11:17
Agent, why do you have an agent?

Ryan Taylor 11:20
So I do like, I do, like reality TV act in loads of different things. And after doing a reality show, in 2021, it was a company that approached me and just said, like, we'll help like, well workflow get you more work in different areas. So they've definitely it's definitely been fun. Like I've done a lot of acting since I've managed to do live TV commercials, adverts and stuff. It's never going to be my main thing. I'm never a reality TV. I don't care about reality TV. Like every so often the odd thing pops up that I'm that I want to do that. And I'll get put forward for it. But apart from that, it's just it's again, it's life experiences. It's when I was 16 1514. I never thought I'd have a chance to do any stuff like that. So when I when I got approached and asked do it it's always a yes for me. I'm definitely always there with no I've never dealt with any regrets. I say that

Scott Benner 12:12
what reality show were you on?

Ryan Taylor 12:14
So I did I NC when I was a kid, little baby. I was 21 I did a show called IB for Weekender, which is about potty and and then in 2000 2001 I did the UK version of Jersey Shore called Geordie Shore. Oh, no kidding. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:32
Did any of those things raise your profile in a way that was shocking to you?

Ryan Taylor 12:40
More like so went to the iBeacon. So it sounds expensive. So I'd be if we kind of when we got off of that we were so young. And to us it was a dead shirt. Like it totally been. I don't even watch it anymore. And I was like, like 19 I was probably like just above the target audience who watches that show? It's just about going into IB firepot and a little bit. And well I'm not I'm not I didn't take full advantage of all the opportunities that come after. But we've got a decent amount of lag a little bit of falling for it. Geordie Shore is a sort of show that you'd expect to get a lot from, but I'm always realistic in it like it was season 25 or something that I went on, but people don't watch this crap for years. The main reason I did it was it was my favorite show when I was a teenager like when I was 13 I never thought I'd get challenged on it when I got offered it I was like yes it didn't do it's not the show didn't tell you I think it's actually been it is finished now as always when it was last year as but the opportunities after I've been like I said getting into agent getting into so many different things in podcasting so act in commercials and I do always have to pay I do put a lot of it down to I get I got basically a foot in the door from Geordie Shore I do think the only reason I still get a lot of opportunities in that sort of worldly because I do while out and I don't think you're not getting just offered stuff just gives you around the reality show a couple years ago you've got to see that you've got a good background in actually over performing everything you do and I do think yeah, that's pretty much where I was to go but Geordie Shore was some people thought there was other people I think for me who do in that first season or that they put on another workshop again, I think can come on like reality. TV definitely pays more in America as well but it also is just watched by more people is so oversaturated in the UK now that like I did it because it's a once in a lifetime experience. That's why I see it as I didn't do it so I wouldn't have to do anything for the rest of my life and I live off doing crappy crappy posts on Instagram.

Scott Benner 14:37
That must have been like just sitting there listening to someone say well this is it where I'm famous

Ryan Taylor 14:42
now. Yeah. You'd be shut down people who move country for it like from other parts of the UK into England for those people who left their jobs for it. I didn't know that. I got paid holiday but my other job and then I went on and got paid to do it. So I got double pay basically. There was nothing Yeah, I didn't do it was is never the angle from ours for anything that comes from it. It's just an add on. But at bare minimum, I have this crazy experience of getting filmed partly and having a bit of fun and going on the show that I loved when I was a teenager.

Scott Benner 15:12
Yeah, so it's sort of, Am I saying it right. Geordie Shore?

Ryan Taylor 15:17
Yeah, Geordie Shore. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 15:20
So when I looked like I've been like banging around while we're talking and everything, there's an article here that says that daily mirrors and it's like it's it says, Ryan Taylor claimed the show's producer would not let him discuss diabetes while dating on the show. Is that true? Yeah.

Ryan Taylor 15:39
Yeah, I've tried to get some of these things are really just because, well, it fat have I'm not too bothered by that one. I'm probably about some of the stuff I have my own tick tock definitely cool that a lot of things by reality TV just for a bit of fun. They seem to make a lot of papers. The problem of it now is in my head, I still I still wouldn't mind doing another show at some point. And it doesn't look good when you type in your name on Google. And that comes up. But yeah, I had someone the other day basically, they were once featured by a show we've seen quite interested in turned around and said they brought up three or four different articles and they said that doesn't look good. If you want to be in this industry, I just said that I don't really want to be in the industry, like you message me like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna change it. But with the diabetes, one that was more specific, because I was starting, I was starting to get a feel for personal diabetic content on Tik Tok. And I just remember, remember somebody from when I was on the show, I basically was sort of set up who you're dating, but I was dating a fellow diabetic, and you don't know this person before you get there. We get on the show, we start having a chat about diabetes. And the producers come over to straightaway and say, Oh, it's really good that he's getting on but we can't air and so I've made the Tiktok by and people if people weren't quite like they've got a lot of people on my side that have some people, Oh, who cares about diabetes, but some people were like, oh, it's awful. They wouldn't do that. I wasn't making that to attack the show. I haven't had the show about those other stuff. But personally with diabetes, and I do understand it's not the best look for a type one diabetic when we're talking about diabetes and our experience with it. And then that night, we're both blackout drunk, I guess it's a it's a partnership in the day. So they probably don't want to be seen as given advice that this is the lifestyle you should live with diabetes. I also think when it's two people who, who they wouldn't the sun accent though, but when you meet when you date someone, you've got a connection, and they always have the same condition as you. To me that was pretty cool. And that was a big thing of like, while we got on even if we had no connection romantically. We both got a condition which is pretty cool to have we both done quite cool thing. She's a former singer. So the fact that we're able to bond over that, to me, if you cut that hose part out, you can have quite a big part of our story on the show. So that was what I that was my main gripe with it. But yes, the Daily Mirror around me like

Scott Benner 17:56
that's so she you are in this house. I mean, I assume the idea is, right. I don't know another way to say this as a as a guy who doesn't date men, but you're you're hot like You're like you're very attractive guy. So so they put you in this house, I imagine with other incredibly attractive people and then alcohol on top, and then they film what happens. And yeah, you're you meet a girl. And as you're talking to her realize that the two of you have diabetes.

Ryan Taylor 18:33
So the thing that I've said to people in the comments that said that the thing I was more bothered about is I thought the way we found out was triple A diabetic, was very interested in so I knew a little bit about Amelia. I had Googled her and stuff like that do the basics, didn't know she was diabetic, we get in there and on. I think like one everyone's sort of getting ready for the second part. And I do outfit scientia looks like a different eye on camera or whatever. And she's in our room. And she's like, looking in the mirror or some of the guy says, oh my god, I'm so full of bruises on my leg or whatever. And she turns around to us and she and I was often asked to run through I said that'd be stupid, like so fine. She says our nose is from injections, and she's oh, by the way, I'm diabetic. It's not like heroin or anything comes up but it's not laughing. But like it was just like I fully aware of her talents. And I was there on the arm diabetic too. And she had to fight it was like just being in there with it. She had like a CGM, which I'd always been against having one of them and like just getting to speak to a few days it made me try one straight after. So like I do think it would be cool to have little moments of that in there. But at the same time that I guess to me, it matters more because I'm diabetic. Is that what the audience really cares about? But that's for the producer to the side?

Scott Benner 19:46
Yeah, maybe maybe it makes you too real. Yeah.

Ryan Taylor 19:50
In reality, without being all over shopped on reality TV, but reality TV is less real than something He's often an act and we'll just say that it's very, they the producers have an idea of what they what they want from each person. They have people writing down the script each evening and what they think is going to happen the next day. And they're essentially trying to make it fit that script because they can only film for so long. And if everyone's just getting unhappy as Lowry and nothing's going wrong and just chaos then where's the drama in these episodes? I think a lot of people don't realize that reality TV is probably more scripted than the scripted entertainment entertainment that they watch.

Scott Benner 20:32
You're telling me the Curb Your Enthusiasm is not as well. Scripted is the show. So well, you know, but to dig into it for a half a second. We're like putting yourself in the perspective of the producer of the show. Like you're trying to paint a picture of like, I mean, it's it's young, attractive sex, alcohol, right like and yeah, that's it the year along they're going so I CGM. What is that?

Ryan Taylor 21:00
They're probably sitting every year why? What are they talking about? We want it we want someone talking about CI in and I love her after one day. I get it. They're not interested tell you about us. And that's why when I made the TIC tock I sausage pork roll. I was sort of like no, like, I wasn't mad, but I understand it like yeah, who the hell wants to watch that? When that Geordie Shore obviously is very similar to Jersey Shore. It's even more than a normal reality TV show is branded as sex party relationships, all that stuff.

Scott Benner 21:30
I just imagined people in like a room somewhere wearing headphones, like, you know, overseeing the filming. And one of them turning to the other one and going did the hot guy just tell the hot girl that he has diabetes like that? That's not fun.

Ryan Taylor 21:47
To cut out. They're

Scott Benner 21:49
really getting into it. What the hell somebody look up a CGM? What's the CGM? For God's sakes? These two separate them?

Ryan Taylor 21:58
Yeah. There's definitely a spanner in the works. So what they expected?

Well, I always I always try. Like I said, I'm always gonna be real to me when I'm on them shows and stuff that I I was already pretty uncomfortable with that you dated on TV wasn't meant to be gay. And it got swept again, that's in the COVID story. It was meant to be the ultimate party season. So I'm actually from so jordiz are from Newcastle in the UK. I'm not from Newcastle. But the whole concept of this season because Geordie Shore was sort of getting bored and dying out a little bit. We're gonna take people who worked very party jobs elsewhere. So I was on the X, I was a nightclub promoter in America. We had a dancer on it, he was danced in nightclubs, we had the strippers all sorts we were going in, and we were going to be the new party, the young party animals that we're going to show the original Castlight house party, we get into isolation, which is sort of they keep you in there to make sure a few days we go on the show so they can get everything set up. While that happens, another COVID lockdown happens and all of a sudden, the whole show changes to We can't leave the actual Geordie Shore house now. So we need to put them on the plan. So that's when it became Oh, you're dating each other? At that point, if you leave, you're not getting paid. You've just wasted all these weeks in isolation, and you didn't get to see if it's gonna be a good show on that. So it the fact is that beta loads a bit like weird for me, I just think that I'm never gonna, like, you know, I'm never gonna meet anyone on TV, especially reality TV, who's actually what I look for in a girl. So I definitely, yeah, I was always gonna be myself when they finally realize as soon as it changed from partying today, and I can party hard, but I'm probably not gonna be the most entertaining person date and like, my specific type, and that's always what I go for.

Scott Benner 23:38
Brian, I'm gonna ask a difficult question. You just said something, right? You just say I'm not gonna meet a girl that I'm interested in dating on a reality show? Yeah, but you're on a reality show. So are you a guy that women wouldn't be interested in dating?

Ryan Taylor 23:54
Oh, man, I'm very lucky to have found a woman who puts up with me I'm a nightmare state and I like there's so many things that I do in career wise, it's never for just being a terrible boyfriend or anything. It's only things I do career wise, which is not fun to be my girlfriend when I'm doing that. I'm doing an ad and they decide on the day that okay, you're going out with this girl in the yard. You've got a kiss my girlfriend I suppose. Where is this money? It's another it's one of them. I wouldn't do myself. I like to think I'm really good in every other way. But yeah, the I personally don't think it's probably fun to date someone who does a lot of work I do. But like I said if I find someone that will put with it then I'm quite lucky man.

Scott Benner 24:38
Oh, of course. So you're see you're 26 Yeah 26 Okay, so you said earlier what was the other show Ibiza Weekender is that are uncut yeah

Ryan Taylor 24:50
yeah, I'd be for weekend that's now changed to a different shows now called cover so we can but yeah, I'd be for I was on there years ago.

Scott Benner 25:00
So they stopped a visa winter Cabos.

Ryan Taylor 25:02
And yeah, it's just like a basis everyone Geordie Shore changed up and put in new people. And it was the same as that the show was getting a bit old, so just change location. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 25:12
And so how many different places have you like how long I guess does it take to film a show? That's my first question.

Ryan Taylor 25:20
Oh, you will be surprised. It depends on what is getting fit in. Like, for example, like Geordie Shore, usually, like the normal jordiz loved us on that show, because they will film for six weeks to make eight episodes, but it's because there's, there's so little stuff happening. That like, you need to form fat long to get enough bear stuff that can go on the show with us because we were wearing that and it was dating. Like every episode, you had all the people who were currently dating each other out Yeah, to show that date show whatever's going on with them, do they get richer with them or not? And then you had new people entering who's he gonna go for her she's gonna go for there was that much sorry, Geordie Shore, we filmed for literally days. It was, and they got a whole series out of it. And I think like, it's crazy. Like when I think we actually work out what we got paid per day. Because of that it was very well, our usual series of a reality show will take probably you can out, it was at least two weeks up to six weeks or six weeks to film. But we managed to get it well I got asked in less than a week, because there's that much going on each day was actually like two episodes. So

Scott Benner 26:26
it's interesting. I'm using big brother in America as an example. But they're sort of like two different kinds of watchers, they're the people who want to see the program that comes on once or twice a week, it's an hour long, it's just it's it's everything turned up to 100. Because it's those little moments. And then there are other people who will watch the live stream of just people wandering nothing happening. Just people living, like like watching an anthill from far away, you know, and I don't know, it's, I don't care for it one way or the other. If I'm being honest, I don't. I mean, my daughter, when my daughter was younger, my wife, my daughter, my daughter's friends, like they would like all come to the house and sit and watch, like Big Brother, for example. And then they'd sit around and talk about it afterwards, like this one, and like that, and I was like, Oh, my God, like, I would just leave, I'd go, I'm gonna go upstairs. But so big,

Ryan Taylor 27:19
big river has, as is our place. So I always had this thing. I've said it on loads of podcasts. I said, when I was a teenager, and if you'd looked at me when I was a teenager, and you thought I'd ever do reality TV, you, you'd be off PMO. And like, there's no charge in everything I'd make on. So I always go based on this. My three favorite TV shows when I was a reality TV shows when I was a teenager, one was Magaluf Weekender, which turned into IB for weekend, which is now kind of last weekend. So I've gotten that. My other one was Geordie Shore. And my third one was Big Brother. So that is going to be the last one that I want to do. Hopefully, at some point we get Yeah, it's I know it's going back in the UK this year, it would definitely be something that I reach out to him about going on. So I had to worry, though, but it's just it would be cool. Because I've said that in podcast, probably about two, three years now that oh, that's the only reality show I'd do left. And like it would be pretty cool

Scott Benner 28:11
to do that is huge. In my house, there's a cup in my cabinet that says Big Brother on it, because they bought they bought bought them to us while they were watching the show. You know, and I think too, and then we'll move on. But I see I can see the perspective of of a producer who would say, while these two people have diabetes, it's not interesting to anybody who doesn't have diabetes. It's not what we're selling here. But I think it's short sighted because a lot of people have diabetes, and I think they would have been really interested in it and probably would have latched on to you and come back to hear more about it or just to see you after they realized you had type 100%

Ryan Taylor 28:47
I don't think it was actually the board. Like the thing that people wouldn't be interested in what from what I gathered from Amelia, which I said on the tic toc. I said, I think it's it was purely the fact that they can't be seen as giving any sort of medical advice. They don't want to do it. And they never want to get caught in a situation where, oh, I'm type one. I saw these two people have type one on your reality show. I started partying every weekend. And now something tragic happens to me. I remember they ever want to be customers or anything like that, which is fair enough. I do get that. Wherever it was also the finger is not interesting to them, then I don't know. But that's what I mean. Is it to me, so they can't be seen as given any sort of medical advice on such a complicated condition.

Scott Benner 29:32
That's interesting. And Amelia Lily right. We can say her name once. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just pulled her up and I agree or legs look fine. So

Ryan Taylor 29:42
maybe it's amazing.

Scott Benner 29:44
Terrific. She was on X Factor in

Ryan Taylor 29:47
UK. Yeah, that's so that was our big storyline. So when they came into me they said you're dating Amelia like what do you like but I quickly was like, oh crap that I watched it years ago on The X Factor and I really fancied her so that their big storyline was my mother crushing us since I was 18? I was you sort of you've sort of adjusted that a bit I just said I really liked on The X Factor but so that's what I that's what this storyline runway.

Scott Benner 30:09
Yeah, I'm gonna say she's two years older than you.

Ryan Taylor 30:12
Yeah, well partly she is my childhood crushes something that if you look on YouTube, there's some clips of a media makes Ryan's childhood dreams come true. Yeah, they love a story. They

Scott Benner 30:24
love a story. Yeah, no, that's interesting. So, okay. Where do I want to go from here? You I do have what I guess I have one question. It's gonna sound like it's about the show, but it's not really when I get contacted by a lot of people, and they want to know how do I successfully drink and to your point, like really drink with diabetes? And I mean, is this what is the secret is the secret you leave your blood sugar high so you don't have a problem with a low while you're drinking? Or do you really have it worked out?

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Ryan Taylor 33:09
There's no sweet science to it through is there's like I said, when I was a club promoter that was probably the rest of us years of my life because you'd be out all night pie in. And you'd also be risking so many other hormonal things which play which play a factor on your blood sugar. So a total lack of sleep because we'd be up first thing in the next day getting people signed up on our table for that night. So there was so come into it. Marketing is always a routine. I've said it to me before, it sounds like the most reckless lifestyle ever. But even when I lived in Vegas, I had a routine. I knew at a certain time, whether it's 4am 430 I'm going to be wrapping up at the club, I know that ideally I'm gonna want to be in bed by let's say 6am I'm going to be up at 11 00 and get back out on the strip and start getting people in. So if I knew that, to me, I always did inject for my drinks and this is because I've got to the point where I cannot drink vodka Diet Coke I hate it. If you drink vodka Diet Coke you you should be okay rarely you literally shouldn't really spike and then you'll get dropped play and you can't like with food for me I have to drink some of the bit sugar in because I hate the taste that drink now. So I would inject as I go along during the night. And then when you get to the point where you're gonna go low, I would then eat before bed. I'm lucky that I can eat for anything. So no matter what even if I'm ridiculously drunk, going to be sick. I will eat through an old stomach it fine. And then I'd wake up in the morning a good level. Now I now have a wine guy Guess I'm getting old. And again, wine is a bit of a blood sugar spike and drop later but again, I won't be out all night anymore. I'm not not as much as a pot. Yeah, so if I'm drinking it, it's definitely Brian Jett. For what I'm drinking I take into account because I drink it fairly often. I know how much he's gonna raise my blood sugar And then when you get to the point where several hours later we're going to start getting that drop from it. Oh, eat again. It's not as convenient. I do think sometimes if you're in a position where you can't maybe you haven't got a CGM, it's more, you're not gonna be testing yourself a lot. It might be better to let your blood sugar's run slightly high, and then the drop won't affect you through the night. But to me, it certainly is preparation like I used to go out with that test get some times I just again go to bed before we're about testing. And I'd always think about not a lot guard. So like he's only a few years ago, but I feel like God I wouldn't dare do you like now it always check because I know how fast things can change your blood sugar. I just think if you're more prepared, no matter what if you test at night, even if you're still high, you know to factor in, okay, I'm going to drop by a certain amount because the alcohol, but it's trial and error, I'm not saying go out and drink every weekend, just so you can factor it in just so you learn enough about it. But if you drink once a year, it's gonna be a lot harder to know what to inject for when you're when you're drinking, than if you're doing a little bit more regularly. So if it's a once a year occasion, maybe err on the side of caution and suffer with some bad blood sugar for that one night because it's not worth risking it to me. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 36:14
when you were younger, you I mean, you basically just got lucky for a while. You didn't get oh, right, and then your blood sugar's higher.

Ryan Taylor 36:23
There were times where I got lucky with higher and lower. There was times I have vivid memories on one certain night where we got back after an all day like a rave or whatever. And I'll be and I remember getting into bed. And at this point, I was getting a weird thing where I wasn't Sensing my blood sugar's as well. And I wasn't sensing going low as well as usual. And I still was just wrecking it as it did. And I knew we had a big day tomorrow. So I took a sleeping tablet. And as I was literally dozing off, and rolling over and being like crap about tests, our test was off and was 4.1. And I've been partying all day, drinking all day, a lot of steps a lot of alcohol. I would have went crazy low and that seemed to have that could have prevented me from waking up. Yeah. And there was there's vivid memories of that where it's like God thank God rolled over and testing South don't do that the previous two nights when it's obviously you can tell but so there's there's definitely, I was so lucky. I had the best time of my life doing it. It was unreal. I can't even think of being that reckless now.

Scott Benner 37:29
Yeah. 4.1 for people listening 74 So yeah, you're, you're, you're at bat as low as you want to be. And yeah, and then you're falling asleep and you're and you're waiting for a sleeping pill to kick and on top of all that you're that

Ryan Taylor 37:43
Yeah. And you've got the drop of all the alcohol where enough potentially the the post exercise drop, because that was one thing when we were abroad. We were racking up 20 30,000 steps a day when we're at a party arrive every night. Yeah, you looking at a big sizable drop. I went a lot food that night, I think I still woke up at like, only like a slightly low ish level the next day.

Scott Benner 38:05
You may I say, if I drank to excess, and was out eating late at night and everything. I don't think I'd have abs. So where is there a lot of exercise in your life as well.

Ryan Taylor 38:22
I'm very there's a lot more when I was young as a personal trainer for many years, and it was my life. Like, I didn't see it as my life. But when I worked well actually look at how, when you're in the gym or day, you've got time you can stretch over the day you do some cardio in the morning, I'd get in a session afterwards, I'll go sauna steam room, I can't do that. Now I'm busy. 24/7. But one thing I am is I'm very if you look at my tic tock you you think I terribly and it is sort of to prove a point. I think that is very much meat eating crap food and inject him for it. And a lot of it is to show I'm very big on showing that like you you can do what you want with diabetes. You can manage it no matter what you don't have to eat zero carb. You don't have to do any firm. But I think the only way to still have our daily weight works me doing this is if I still have good blood sugar's are still look reasonable while doing it. So the way I do it is I'm very active. I try and get in 10 15,000 steps every single day. I try and do some form of weight training every day. I do somewhat outside hobbies. I do professional wrestling. So I'm training for that at the minute. So there is a lot of activity in my life. I'm trying to be more functionally fit now. But it's not like when I was a personal trainer. I was living to be like a bodybuilder or even when I was a club promoter in America. Like I cared very much about how the I was gonna look on the beach. Right now my main part is always health. But yeah, a big part of it is I'm still going to eat crap because I will show people that like, mainly that like you can still do it with diabetes, I guess so 2520 to 50 messages a day. via Tic Tac Toe Instagram asking for advice on like diet, diabetes. And I do think it's, I do think I will reach a lot of people in the next few years and hopefully golf and mesh that you can do what you want as diabetes, because for so long, they have been told by doctors, gurus, dietitians that your carbs have to be in the 50 grams a day, you don't get to enjoy this everything. It's enjoy that. And that's actually why, in my opinion, they suffer so badly when they do you're never going to keep on that diet for life. So when you do have that cheat day at Christmas Day, and you have that cheesecake, you don't know what the how to inject for it. She's never that bad. You've never, you've stopped your diet so well, that all of a sudden, when you throw in a lot of carbs and fats, yeah, your blood sugars go sky high. And then you're reaffirming what that person has told you. Oh my god, I can't eat foods. I think I don't think people should be told I'm a very big phenom work with diabetes UK to do seminars with young children. And a big thing is there's like, tribe, like you're going to try it with a new life anyway, I'll be open eyes, it's how you my my experiences with everything, not just food. But when pie in with girls with this and that. I'm not going to reach it dads and tell them, but I'll be totally honest with you guys. And my biggest advice is be your own Encyclopedia of knowledge. Like you don't ever learn how to deal with a certain situation if you don't put yourself in that situation.

Scott Benner 41:22
Right? Right, I have to tell you, I'm certain you probably don't listen to this podcast. But you and I are so aligned on this. It's, it's absolutely freaking it's I started this podcast saying to people, I don't care how you eat, that's not my business. You need to understand how insulin works with the foods you're eating, and be right and you can go ahead and restrict carbs. But it's always been my just from my personal experience. Doing that just at some point, there's just a day where you go, I can't eat chicken again, you know, or I just I can't I can't do it anymore. Like, I don't want bacon like you don't want to get into a spot in your life when you don't want bacon. If you and so you need to understand how does this insulin work in this situation for me. And then after that I tell people you go eat any way you want and apply that knowledge to what you're doing. Because I want you to have stable, lower safe range, blood sugars, no matter what you want to do, and your activity levels and everything. I'm just it's so funny, because I'm listening to you for the last couple of minutes. And I was like with the exception of the fact that you are half my age 700 times better looking than I am. And British you and I are saying the same exact thing.

Ryan Taylor 42:43
So that's and I think it's so necessary because there's there is other people who are actually really admire in the diabetes space online, because they motivate me to to do better. But I put myself in perspective of a few years ago, when I saw that sort of content saying you've got to eat like they should call you that. It would make me put me off ever wanting to talk about diabetes on social media. I've never been that I've always been someone who's exactly what I've wanted to eat. I can't do a keto diet, I've been through so many calories in a day, I don't even know how many hundreds of grams of fat I'd have to eat to sustain my body weight, like, it just wouldn't happen. So I would see still people online. And for so long. I want to like share my story with diabetes I never did. Because I was I'm not that person. I haven't got totally private reasons I don't eat 100 grams of carbs a day, I want. And I realized like, the more people don't want to be told you've got to do that. They want to be educated on exactly how insulin works, and how can how much how you can then use that to help you with whatever your diet needs. Whatever your exercise needs are, I think a big thing we benefit from now is how easy it is all food labels have carbohydrate counts on them all my fitness pal, all the different apps you can use. Now there's other truckers in America as well. We're in a there's a massive benefit to having technology in this time. And we shouldn't be told I didn't quite go through it. He told me a bit controversial and I said if your guru if you're a doctor, if you're a parent, and you tell you, your kids, they've got eat a certain way they or they can't participate in the same hobbies as their friends go into. They can't live a certain lifestyle that they've always dreamed of living. You are the problem that you are what's going to cause depression, anxiety, unhappiness in your children, you're not going to let them live the life they want it and then they're going to be they're always going to resent having diabetes because I did for years. And now it's one of the most positive things in my life. I say it all the time to people that I hated having it for years. I was always Oh my God, even when I was living a good life in America party and abroad. It was always Oh joy if I didn't have to bring my own simple Bovary. I wouldn't need an extra three suitcases worth of stuff. But But, but at the same time now this is only positive because some of the best people I meet is through social media and talking about Diabetes getting to. And it keeps me more on track. It keeps me more on track. So I know I'm posting my readings on my story every day on tick tock, I'm going to be a little bit better than I would usually word. So there's definitely, yeah, I don't think people should ever be scared to talk about diabetes. I do a lot of tiktoks talking about diabetes data and how early you should mention that when you're dating someone, some people they're lying. To me, I've always been scared to mention the other day, and I was born now I used to hide it for weeks months until they had to see me inject. That's the first time I've talked about it. Now. It'd be one of the first things I talked about, because it's such a big part of my life. And I think it's only getting to the point where you're comfortable. You're diabetes, comfortable your management of it. You know, it doesn't change anything in your life, really, apart from the fact you've got to be screwed on 24/7. That's what's made me embrace it.

Scott Benner 45:48
Ryan, what's your handle on tick? Tock? I don't follow anybody on tick tock, but you're gonna be my first.

Ryan Taylor 45:53
So Ryan T one day. All right.

Scott Benner 45:57
And I don't think that's completely true. I do. I think I follow a couple of people, but I see you okay. Yeah. All right. Brian, can I say something that's gonna sound wrong at first, but yeah, you'll take it the right way. I don't know how to say this. I made. I made an assumption about you because of how you look. And I wasn't right.

Ryan Taylor 46:21
Right. Now, I look like I don't

Scott Benner 46:24
know, you look forward. Well, here's what I mean. Just in case you're not understanding, right? You're pretty and in shape. And I thought, Oh, God, I'm gonna have to talk to this guy about reality shows for an hour. And what else are we gonna talk about? And you're the exact opposite man. You're Yeah, it's it's exciting to talk to you about diabetes. Like you've no idea how, like, they just kind of like lit up I was when you were talking. I mean, yeah.

Ryan Taylor 46:51
So I tried for so long. I've tried for so long to not be sort of pigeon holed into beard, like I really do what I say was never a big part of life. But I do in the standards for conception that I'm a very big headed all about myself. Who, yeah, probably only cares about Jim and this and that. And yeah, I tried to be very far away from that. But I said to doctors for years, like one of the things I loved about my parents, when I got diabetes, they're the most best parents in the world, they would have done absolutely anything to me, they would just learn everything about diabetes themselves if I wanted them to. I hated the fact that I sorted the kids who let their parents do that. Because I knew when I was going to get to 18, I was going to do stuff in my life where I wouldn't have contact with my parents. So I don't want to be ringing them when I'm at my first sleepover, when I'm a teenager saying, How much do I inject for this coke, like, I was from the age of 11. I was on that PubMed. I was researching everything about diabetes. And I said, I've built this encyclopedia of knowledge, which is called share online. But I'm also very passionate about other people's stories with diabetes. It's a it's a it's a good subject for me the most fun I have in my life. Yeah,

Scott Benner 47:59
I also imagined at some point you were planning on dating a ton of women and you didn't want your mom you need your mom. They're going Honey, don't forget the Bolus for that.

Ryan Taylor 48:09
Yeah. Get that nighttime insulin. Yeah, that's a big thing. I've got a lot of videos in recent weeks about the importance of your partner into diabetes management and I would never say as like a of my ex ally I will always have a soft spot in my heart for all of them because they were my partner during very important years of my life. If only this year, I realized how important be with my current girlfriend, how important it is to have someone who shows such an interest in your diabetes management. She doesn't sit there and want to carb count on me or anything but she she knows how important it is to my life factors that in fact I spent a lot of time online talking about a lot of time doing videos about it. She also is massively encouraged she's she always be on the game plan with me. So if I we get we drink a lot we party when we go we do our little holidays each month we do a trip somewhere we drink a lot with pie, we eat crap food. But if I come back and say I need to turn it off for the next couple of weeks. I'm the chef so I'll cook or anything she wants. But she's always she's on that time with me. If I say my blood sugar readings haven't been good for a while I need to go some really basic foods just so I can get back into control and sort of get a sense of what's going on. And wouldn't even be a question she's she's on that same diet with me. And that's really cool tough.

Scott Benner 49:27
If you What do I want to say if you look like be What do you think you would do for a living?

Ryan Taylor 49:35
I think I'll do what you do. And I hope to I have to do it anyway. That's my end goal. It's gonna sound very big headed. And but I've always been someone that as I've hoped by the time I pass away, I will have helped more young diabetics than anyone else on the planet and that's what I intend on doing. And it doesn't even seem like a lot stick out to me. But I know there's people out there who have maybe even if it's a doctor or even people that you put out, so you can pick us every single week and reach millions people, I still think by the time I pass away, I will reach more. And it's just because I feel like I was made to be the person to do it because of the lifestyle that I live when I was younger. That will catch the eye and will be intriguing to so many teenagers, and also my honesty as well. But also to give a full perspective on it. I think it's very easy for someone who maybe hasn't done anything crazy in the last big diabetes didn't hold you back from anything. I think I've constantly proved our one goal I've set for myself is to each year do something I never thought I could do. Because I want to prove that I doesn't hold you back when I think because of that. Over time. And that's my that's my goal in life.

Scott Benner 50:49
Right? There's no way you've seen the movie twins with Danny DeVito. And Arnold Schwarzenegger, right.

Ryan Taylor 50:56
I've heard of it. I love it. I've never I've never watched it.

Scott Benner 50:59
You understand the concept of it that these two people who look nothing alike are actually twins, twins. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you something right now. We're twins. You and I are that we're the diabetes pair of that you're obviously Schwarzenegger in this scenario. And I'm Danny DeVito. But I've said on this podcast a bunch of times, like there are moments when you're talking about other things. And the way I usually put it as I guess people, some people might find it morbid, but when I die, I want a bunch of people to show up at my funeral and be like, That guy helped me. Like, like, my blood sugar's better because of that. I listened to a podcast, but an odd thing. You know, like I, I pushed a couple of buttons on my phone and listen to people talk about diabetes, and my health got better. And I don't, by the way, let me be clear, I don't really want you all to come to my funeral. I'm just trying, I don't even think I want a funeral. To be honest. I might just a little, you know, when they burn you up? I think I'm good with that. And yeah, yeah, I'll take that. But, but my bigger point is, is just what you're saying. Like if I would keep talking about it and be serious about it. I think there's a way to reach people with good information. And I think there's a way to give it to them. So that they can take it up and actually use it in their life and not just intersect with what you were kind of talking about earlier, which is the way the establishment likes to talk about, which is in a way that nobody wants to listen to isn't in any way fun or engaging, and in the end, doesn't actually help you because they won't go the extra mile to talk about how the insulin works. They'll you know, and I find I want to be clear, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty of people who eat like a low carb lifestyle because they want to and they enjoy it. And I'm not talking about them. But people who find themselves limiting their carbs, because they can't figure out diabetes. i It makes me sad. And for the same reason that you talked about it, like just making decisions in your life one way or the other, that that's not what you want to be doing. To fit yourself into a problem that doesn't really exist, you just don't understand how to do it. And and that's just a It's just a shame. You know, if that's happening to people,

Ryan Taylor 53:21
I think it's the lazy way out for the medical industry because there's so many more factors that fit into diabetes management, or if you actually break down as a million hormone levels, which also will cause it was a big one I had a huge surgery and experienced firsthand the effects of high and extremely low cortisol and how that affects you diabetes after but there's a million other factors I said you activated there your movement your lack of sleep will make you insulin resistant people but the easiest way to just put it in a manual for loads of trainee doctors treat and for them to spew it to millions of people is the less carbohydrates you eat the less the easier it is to control. However, it doesn't take into effect the fact that they at some point they either don't might not want to eat low carb or the fact that it doesn't take effect that eventually they are going to cheat they are going to have something else and then if you've never trained him to try enough different diets and to try and have different foods that they learn their own body then you haven't really done anything you basically put in a plaster over the the injury just put it on there temporarily. I do think one thing I was crazy with that it's managing like I said I was a bit of a mad scientist and with diabetes I'll try every different form of training in the gym see how it affected the blood sugar I tried every diet I did it all fruit vegan diet I did the because I saw it was really good for making it too sensitive. I've done all meat carnivore diets, I've done low carb, high carb and then I realized like yes might have a slightly better effect on my body one than the other but not not worth enough to be like oh I have to eat these certain foods. So then it becomes a thing of oh what you're gonna enjoy because how many years you have on this planet Your food control a massive part of the dopamine release in your brain. Are you really going to eat foods that you hate? Just so you can have that perfect HB one C? Or are you going to just spend a little extra time working out how to make that HPA once the good? No matter what?

Scott Benner 55:13
Right? I love you. I don't I don't know. I'm sitting here daydreaming about flying to England and doing a short podcast series with you in person about

Ryan Taylor 55:23
oh my god, that'd be that's got to be done. Now. You can't fit that in my head. We've got to make this happen.

Scott Benner 55:29
It's just it's like, oh my god, I swear to you that you're the nicest surprise I've had in a long time. Seriously, it's and I don't and I I feel like I'm gonna just apologize. I said it once. I really did miss judge you. I honestly, I did the thing that you tell people not to do. I when I went off some of my other experiences I've had where? Yeah, there have been people who have come on, they're like, I'm an actress. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And then that's nothing else that happens in the conversation just like, can we dig into any of these things? And the answer is usually no. But you could go on forever about this. And, and really, intelligently and well thought out, like your thoughts are very clear and valuable on the subject, and I'm trying to anyway, I'm never gonna do that again. Like it's, it's okay. Yes, you're hot Ryan. Okay. You're pretty and you're some beautiful mix of people. I don't know what your background is. But

Ryan Taylor 56:32
I've just very tan I'm actually English.

Scott Benner 56:35
Oh, for certainly I thought your mom or dad was was black. That's it. You're just tan. See? How do you How did you get out in the sun?

Ryan Taylor 56:42
God, Oh, God. Now nowadays it is some birds, some birds, but it's more of a. I spent years in these hot countries. I was in Miami in Miami. And then obviously I'll be in the top places. I had a really good time. And then when I sort of made a decision, okay. That part of my life is over when you realize how quickly you lose that. I mean, it's hard and it's hard. So yeah, I do spend a lot of time with Sinbad it's something that I don't love doing. I know it's not half before Yeah, but

Scott Benner 57:10
I don't know how you got diabetes. Like everything else looks like Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Ryan Taylor 57:17
Salah minute Yeah, I I've always struggled since either sepsis in 2021 Right before going on Geordie Shore. This is what did dampen the Geordie Shore experience when I stopped either a blood clot in my leg and sepsis at the same time, two weeks for getting on the show. So I was on crutches until the day they picked me up because I didn't tell them how bad it was. And yeah, massive surgery on my leg was absolutely out of it. The whole time was on the show that I was in no condition to really be on the show. And then after I've somehow you get this thing me and my friends advised and coffee reality TV shows as adrenaline dump after doing one that you do this really cool thing. And you go back to normal life and it's quite hard and I wasn't ready to so I thought you know what, one more summer in our beef, went out tried to party realized very quickly. I couldn't handle it because I would go out one day and sleep for nearly 48 hours and I was like why can I stay up massive bags into my eyes and stuff went and got came home got locked down. And I had very low cortisol. Basically I was in Addison's shock the whole time I was out there and barely injecting insulin went days without injecting the insulin was still going low. So that I was prescribed hydrocortisone. I've successfully weaned myself off though very recently, but course or something I have to pay a massive look at if I now don't get the right. It's crazy because I live this crazy lifestyle for seven years, not caring about sleep, not caring about rest recovery diet. And then now I feel everything. Like if I don't sleep for a couple of days, I'll notice some bugs in the nose and dry hands and it will be really long quarters or so I need to take it again. But um, I'm going to put my building a good enough routine that we're okay. So yeah, no other apart from that. We will

Scott Benner 59:06
do you take the medication or you said you wean yourself off of it.

Ryan Taylor 59:10
So I weigh myself off. I still I've got it all prescribed so I can go at any time. I always keep some on me just in case. I really don't want to be taken them sort of Graeca steroids for long periods of time. They're not good. And if needed, and like I said if it if I'm regimented on my lifestyle, it's there. And it's one of them that cortisol plays such a huge impact on your diabetes. I need to take a look at it because if you have low cortisol, you probably got low blood sugar. If you have high cortisol, you probably got high blood sugar. So I do take that into account now and that's part of why I could my friends aren't in Miami currently. So it's hitting that time of year spring break and it's not even nearly appearing to me because I know the damage it would do to me at this point

Scott Benner 59:52
Arden's my daughter. I'm sorry, do you I don't have diabetes. Ryan. My daughter does and yeah I got that. Yeah. And I'm just I got to the point where I was like, I don't know, I think I think this guy is just fulfilling something he said he was gonna do last year. It's so, but she sees a more integrative endocrinologist, like she just turned 18. So in the states here, there are pediatric endos. And they're done with her. Now they basically at her last visit, at the end, they go, Okay, well, we need to talk about like, you know, you get out of here, because we can't see you anymore. So there's a doctor that's been on a couple of times, talking about thyroid stuff, she's really brilliant and helps my helps my family with a lot of things. And we were, we get we talked her into seeing Arden for her diabetes, because she doesn't usually see people for diabetes. That's not the kind of Endocrinology she does, but I don't care this woman is, she's who she's who I want helping Arden. And cortisol is one of the things that every time you get a blood test with her she checks for, and understand, I bet you most endos don't do that.

Ryan Taylor 1:01:02
I'm gonna do obviously, this is something that someone messaged me the other day saying, like is that other factors, they told me how low carb they how many 1000s of steps are doing every single day. And I listed several things which could play a massive factor in losing weight, I said you shouldn't have to restrict your diet that much to lose weight. And iron is a big one. BT was a big one. Vitamin D is a very healthy almost have at the top of the reference range. And I said your biggest ones, your thyroid, and your thyroid is massively impacted by your cortisol, you can have even if you take thyroid medication, your thyroid levels can come back, okay. But that just means it's in your blood. It isn't actively put to work if there's too high levels or too low levels of cortisol in your body, which is one of the things I experienced with when I've had to first start taking that hydrocortisone I went deadly skinny before last year, which was scary for me because I've always managed to maintain my weight and I was eating a taller junk food and my cortisol was extremely low. And I was losing so much weight and then when they first put me on it, my FICO my FICO has slowed down massively. I know you won't believe this, but I was in some of the worst shape of my life in that December time. And we eventually got it balanced. But yeah, they know. Yeah, the whole man.

Scott Benner 1:02:19
Right? I'm more than believe it. I just made a note for myself. I have a doctor's appointment on Friday. I just got a bunch. So my daughter went off to college this year. And my son just graduated from college and got a job so I finally have some time to think about myself. I have I have trouble with anemia, like so. Oh, right. So my my iron right now you are talking to me. I am. I'm talking to you completely fueled on the excitement I have for what you're talking about. Because my ferritin is seven right now.

Ryan Taylor 1:02:52
Oh my God, that's crazy. Yeah. So obviously I was I was always right, I always was right at top of reference range for iron, the top. That's probably what I play so much part of being in good shape, too. When I was younger, that without even trying, I always hit them. And then it became an issue with I said when when when when my hormones went off and the cortisol started going off. Now it is that regular check on all of them because all of a sudden, it's up in the reference range in the space of two months became bombed the reference range on a few of them. And I was I'm taking the I mean the exact same foods roughly taking the exact same supplements and now all of a sudden, it to me it works synergistically. And one of them's after the other one stopped paying about so yeah, definitely other that's I get that I know I

Scott Benner 1:03:35
will trust me, one of the things I'm doing today is bothering a doctor about getting me on their schedule, I'm gonna get an infusion. Like, I'll just get a like,

Ryan Taylor 1:03:44
that's what you should. Yeah. When you as low as you are. That's what you like, if you took tablets now. It would take so long to bring bring you up. Yeah, you need that infusion. And then it's obviously you can maintain otherwise, but

Scott Benner 1:03:56
yeah, but the doctor that I saw, like, really, like gave me a battery. Like I went in. I said, Look, here's So Ryan, but between you and I that people listening, my biggest My biggest issue is that I don't eat in a way that should be reflective of my weight. And if that makes sense or not my activity, I move around. I mean, I'm old nah, but, uh, you know, it's just if you and I stood next to each other, and I said, Brian, how much do you think I weigh? You'd miss my weight by 40 to 50 pounds? Really? Yeah, you would be off by that much how I look versus what I actually why. And so I went into the doctor, I'm like, This isn't right. Like, I don't I don't eat or live in a way that should reflect this. So she tested my my thyroid. She tested my iron. She tested my testosterone like she she gave I had a I gave blood for a felt like 10 minutes when I went to the doctor, and I'm my follow up opponent Less than two days and we're gonna see what she's gonna do. So

Ryan Taylor 1:05:03
that's that's cool is very cool is what documents he has, I think would be interesting because so many people are in that situation like, they think, Oh, I've just got diabetes, but now you've got autoimmune conditions are so when they they're not taking into account which is what I'm trying to say so many room, there could be so many other things autoimmune wise which are affected because you have diabetes, it's not saying because you have diabetes, you've got all these things wrong here. But there's a better chance of it because you got diabetes. So I say to him, it's not as effective for the average population, it might be as simple as calories in versus calories out. If you if you're on a good diet, and you notice that you're not losing weight you've been active, then definitely take a look at these almost off because the worst thing is doctors don't even really point it out until it's a serious problem. Yeah, there's there's a reference range. And then, but that reference range, if you're at the bottom of it, that's sometimes very deficient when you're at the bottom of that. And they weren't even mentioned it until you're under the reference range, which is, I don't like that, to me. It's like you're there to prevent problems. And it's if you're leaving it too long, for some people, you might be causing yourself more work when they are firm issues down the line and the further medication and they actually will have

Scott Benner 1:06:12
and that mindset isn't it permeates medicine, like you know, a one said, Oh, don't worry, it's not, you know, you're not too bad. You know, yeah, you have this, that's not too bad of a number that's in the range, or thyroid is a huge one right? There. I

Ryan Taylor 1:06:27
referenced.

Scott Benner 1:06:29
Oh my god, there are people with TSH is of five and six who have every thyroid issue. And the doctor says to him, Well, you're in range, so we're not going to give you the medication. And

Ryan Taylor 1:06:39
if they if they put you on a form of T frailty for your TSH would be, you'd be gets limited to barely anything. So why is it okay to be about fine?

Scott Benner 1:06:50
Exactly. I trust me, I have episode upon episode where I'm just banging that drum over and over again, like if you're, if your TSH is over two, you need to find a thoughtful doctor, who will really can do this for you. Anyway, I think I don't know what I'm going to end up on. But you just said something that I wouldn't have thought to do that I'm going to do after I get answers. I'm going to take the this piece of paper I'm holding right here that I still happen to have that has all the blood work on it that they did. And I'm gonna sit down on the podcast and go over it with people so they can see what they looked at and what we found and what we're trying.

Ryan Taylor 1:07:25
Yes, I said that you'll be surprised how many people have the same issues as you're experiencing. And like I said, if you can point out slightly faster to them than they would have been some people. Whether it's a money issue or whatever, it's just, I'm gonna run myself into the ground and live as I'm fine. I'm just going to self medicate with prescription stuff until I until I absolutely crash, somebody would don't go and get their bloodwork done. So if you point out certain things you're experiencing, and then what your blood tests are often that's yeah, you could save someone Yeah, cuz

Scott Benner 1:07:57
no one knows what they asked for, you know, and, and, you know, I know your points just very strong, because I'm adopted. But my daughter has type one diabetes. And it wasn't and no matter how many people I get on this podcast, I'm like, so you know, how about in your family line, like what's in people like, Oh, my, my mom has celiac, or my brother in law has vitiligo or I don't know, like stuff like that. And I never, I always thought, well, I just don't know my history. But then I have some, it's interesting, you know what I mean, but then I have some of these issues. And because I think because I don't have diabetes, I don't see this is probably a psychological thing, because my kid has type one. I don't have type one. So therefore, I don't have medical things that deserve attention, if that makes sense. Yeah, 100%.

Ryan Taylor 1:08:49
But no one even knows what type one comes from. And like I said, you might have just been blessed enough to not get that but you still have the same genes that essentially will allow you to go deficient in the same hormones and the same the same blood markers that type one would go in so it is weird thing of like they people do or say that like it's not meant to be G it's not meant to be passed on by genes. But my brother was my stepfather was quite a cousin of mine did have it. She passed away when she was young. So yeah, it's it's weird. I do always speak to people and I do always ask her. Did you have any family members? Because it is quite intriguing. Like, it's crazy. They haven't looked down exactly. Is there a way it gets passed on or not?

Scott Benner 1:09:32
Well, I ask it to get people's minds turning like the people listening. I want them to think like oh, wow, this does run in my family or Yeah, we do. You know, there are four people in my extended family who run to the bathroom after we eat dinner. Like is that me? Is that celiac? Is that like, my stomach hurts? Could that be it? It's just my stomach hurt because I have type one and my thought and my pancreas isn't helping. You know with my digestion which by the way, hope happens to my daughter. My daughter has to take care Yeah, just an enzyme tablet when she eats. Yeah, just meat and stuff. Exactly. Yeah. Ryan, why? Where have you been all my life? Dammit.

Ryan Taylor 1:10:12
Yeah, the research about the research? I do. Yeah, I know a lot of people who I give it to my girlfriend as well she's always struggled with digestion obviously, being my partner she does eat a lot more probably meat and she used to cook it most likely does include it. So yeah, I've looked at again, I am what age was your daughter diagnosed to two. The one of the saddest stories I heard. But another thing that really motivated me to to do as much as I can in the diabetes space I was doing probably a lot of pilots, I guess they call in America but dry runs, we call them in the UK. So before reality show aired, they put a film a new reality show, they'll do a practice run of it. And they'll run it like it's real. But it'll be with it's typically actors or people who have been on reality TV before. So they've been asked to play out for the camera and stuff. And they do it just to see have they got the right camera angles in this location is the storyline of the show any good. I do a lot of them. And I did one that turns out to be a really good shot and really good. I didn't actually on the show. But about a year ago, and I remember, the first night everyone's in their room, having a good time mingling and talking about his castle getting paid to do this. We're living in a castle for a week or whatever. So we're all doing that I hit diabetes mentioned repeatedly. So I'll go over here, this guy has reached out to him, and I thought it'd be him. And he's talking about his daughter having it. And he said to me, he lists off the how bad it was her diagnosis said last year this way, was wetting the bed every single night throwing up every single night and was getting misdiagnosed for months. And I thought in my head, she's got to be my age, because that's the exact same thing that happened to me. I went down. I was 10 years old and I only weighed four stone. I'm not sure when I was in kilo, but it's looking at around 60 pounds. Yeah, at the age of 10. And I was weighing myself every night, throwing up most nights. And so I assumed I said I'll hold you thought I think he was gonna say my age. And he turned around he said, Oh, that was only a few weeks ago. She's three years old. And I couldn't believe how diabetes is so widely known now Hala people still having them saying terrific stories nearly dying. And I can't get diagnosed. Like to me if you've seen them certain signs on a kid and shows it's not enough education in the general population. Definitely not in the medical field. But yeah, I think it's crazy. Like the fact that just people need dying to get diagnosed and it was in what 2022? That's wild.

Scott Benner 1:12:40
Yeah, well, especially in the emergency room situation, you would expect doctors to know that. You know, when when when a doctor doesn't know that your TSH shouldn't be six. I don't know if they're going to know that peeing all the time. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's hard to know.

Ryan Taylor 1:12:56
They should to make sure we weren't you started tests on comes in L? How hard? Is it? fingerprick. It shouldn't be one of those that honestly should be one of the most standard things whenever there's any of them. Was it the four P's The main symptom, or 40s? That makes sense. And the type one diabetes, if someone comes in with any of them should be standard, we have to do a blood test on it. And then, yeah, I'm never gonna have the chance to change your medical field. I'm not stupid enough to think I have that much power and influence. But I think this is why I love podcasts like this. I love Elon, he puts out information that could catch on, because he didn't have a clue about diabetes until his daughter got it. But he wishes you know, now to not put through the trauma she suffered for months leading up to it. So yeah, I have

Scott Benner 1:13:39
a couple things. First of all, you said four T's? What? What are their thirst?

Ryan Taylor 1:13:45
So first, tired.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:49
Toilet, toilet,

Ryan Taylor 1:13:51
toilet. That's the one you

Scott Benner 1:13:53
misspoke. And you said four peas. And I thought on a different podcast, I'd ask Ryan. What is I think I know one of them. So well, you know, I wouldn't say that. Don't Don't give up on the idea of really being able to impact a lot of people because like look at the look at the weird course you take to getting to me today, right? Like you're on a reality show and your and your, you know, your person's like, Here, go do podcasts about diabetes. And that was a year ago and now here and you and I are talking and also I am I don't put a ton of effort into making sure you're here. So you Yeah, you have to respond. You have to look at that email and go Oh, damn, I did say I was gonna be on a podcast next week. And and then and then be here for it which I really appreciate. Sincerely, yeah, knows.

Ryan Taylor 1:14:42
It's been great. I know. I know. I'm gonna that's why my goal is always to reach and most people have anyone in the diabetes thrilled. I just think I'm not I'm not medically trained. A lot of the stuff that I do is against doctors and how they prescribe and how they go about teaching Okay, so I'm never gonna get welcome into that industry like diabetes UK probably hate that. I come out and I say like your doctor is wrong about this, this and this. And all the talks that I do for my staff saying, like, I think you should listen to your doctor on half the stuff, because they're the manual that they read on diabetes is this many pages long when it should be this many. And they probably don't like that. But they also know that I probably give the realest advice to children. So I know I'm gonna reach a lot of people. And I just, I just think personally, you can only control what you can control and but yeah, your path to so many things as well. And I always think there's so many things in my life that I said, I when I was 14, I never thought I'd do reality TV. If you saw me at 14 I definitely wasn't someone who you think would be allowed to do anything like modeling reality TV, anything. And even podcasts that I do, I have my own sports forecast. Now I do a lot of I try and do like one interview chat or podcast, in different areas, sports relationships, party and traveling, I try to do one of them a week, my agent tries to get me through some of that. And I always tell her like, I was in speech therapy until I had no confidence one but I was also in speech therapy and up until the age of six years old. So I was sitting there while they're going to, to to serve just so I can say words. And the fact that I get to do stuff like this. That's cool to me, because I never thought I'd be a good talk. I know for their constant talk for sure. Well,

Scott Benner 1:16:17
you're sure you're absolutely terrific. I actually was going to ask you. And then you just said you're in speech therapy, which makes me want to ask you more. Do you Do you know your IQ? Has it ever been tested?

Ryan Taylor 1:16:30
I don't think it'd be very good. I just because I disagree. I'm very I've said this before, I'm obsessively interested in subject in certain matters. So if I and it can be something so small, and I'll have to be the most educated person on that random subject. And I'll spend hours in my free time just researching it and gathering knowledge on it listening to podcasts on it. But if it's something I don't care about, I'm useless. Like, I remember I worked in car sales at the age of 21. I got there. And for six months, I was stealing a living. And on my last day, they caught me and they gave me a test that I had on my first day. I don't remember the test on my first day. I scored worst on my last day when they fired me that I did on my first day,

Scott Benner 1:17:14
right? I don't care. Because you're, you're describing me. Like, yeah, if you think I know about, like nuclear fission or something like I don't, you know, I struggled to get through school, primary and secondary. And but the things that I that I think about? Well, I think people say it's the things you care about, but it's the things that kind of light my brain up that they're I can go on, you know, and and I'm telling you, I'm not lying, I would send my daughter to you, as an endocrinologist before some of the endocrinologist that we've met. Yeah,

Ryan Taylor 1:17:50
that's right. I think that so again, we go into that. That's where the education system fails. Yeah, I was. I wasn't booksmart at school. But if you put me in a creative subject, something like media, which is like journalism, ALR it designing something, I was very good. If I had to read about you will know, but Shakespeare is a very famous author in the UK in English literature. Oh, my God, I was awful. And that's where school fails you because you should play to your strengths, because you don't have to be good at every single thing. I wasn't amazing at maths. I wasn't good at numbers. But I just said like, if it's something I'm passionate about God, like, I'll be very passionate about it.

Scott Benner 1:18:35
Let me let me share this with you. I'm published. I am a published author, okay. I don't read I don't like reading.

Ryan Taylor 1:18:46
It's one of them that to me, I'm not like, I'm not saying I'm the busiest man in the world or anything. But I like I like to live quite routine after I can fit in as many things as I can in the day, like, we have to work we have to do some things after gym. So certainly I do which take up a large portion with this happy so routine, the routine. Problem is if I do, I sat there and read for an hour, I don't see that as a massive waste of time because I could I could listen to the audiobook version of it while doing some sort of exercise or something like, I'm a very efficient guy and readers never fit into my lifestyle.

Scott Benner 1:19:19
I found it since I've read a couple of great books that I've really enjoyed. But I just don't like to read. I'm not I'm not embarrassed. I used to. I was on a book tour once. And my publisher pulled me aside and said, Hey, let's stop telling people you don't read okay? And I said, I said why he goes well, because you wrote a book and it doesn't sound good. And I was like, Oh, okay. I said I thought it sounded like I thought it was like Hey, book and he doesn't even read.

Ryan Taylor 1:19:50
I think yeah, it's it's never done much for me like so. I won't be efficient, but I also I just I can't concentrate on words. I feel like I'd pay massively off people's like voices emotion, which I guess you wouldn't get an audio book. But it's probably why I like so many podcasts. And so I like hearing that if I'm going to ask me, like, made up stories up for a real life story. It's always fun what interests me. So I would have to be more like a biography, which I'd be interested in, but I still hear the voice behind it. I've definitely always connected better with the expression you can put in your voice. And I guess if you can see them as well, but yeah, breeding to me, it's just I've never been asked to it. And it's annoying because I try and be so there's so many you always look at are the millionaires morning routine. And I'm very much on the I go over five year don't care. It's Monday to Sunday, I'm about five. I always try and get Jim out of the way early. I'll try and just start my day at five. It's just something that I've managed to get into routine. I love doing it. But there's certain things I now try and add in when I can read it. It's always says I'll read nine to 12 and dine afternoon. For any period of time.

Scott Benner 1:20:57
Brian, let me tell you what, what the Google machine tells me whether or not it's actually true or not. But average IQ of a person with a stutter is 14 points higher than the national average. That's pretty crazy. I have your IQ in the 120s. That's my guess, really. I'm very good at picking people's IQs. People who knew me

Ryan Taylor 1:21:19
at school would massively laugh at that statement. I like I said, but I do think like I said, it's something. And we're talking about a subject that I'm very passionate about. And I put a lot of time into researching because to me, that's one of the most important things when you're giving advice to young people and stuff. Like, I got to tell you go and do this because I did it. And it's great. Like, if you do it and you're gonna die, I can't put that risk on myself and live for myself doing that I've had to be very educated on any my opinions on

Scott Benner 1:21:47
I appreciate that. I'm just telling you that you're not giving yourself enough credit. You're you're having multi level thoughts about things that are existing on different timelines, and you're keeping them all together and explaining them in a very simple way. And that that's not that listen, I barely got out of high school. Like, I'm not kidding you. But I barely got out of high school. Like when they gave me my diploma. I was like, huh, I pulled this off. We did it. I was like, no kidding. Alright, thanks. You sure. All right, I'll take it. But I like my kids, like my daughter's in college. And she's She sends me a text the other day and she goes, Did this report on this history topic. And I was like, right, and she goes, I got a 96 out of 100. And I said, Yeah, and she goes, I don't understand where I lost these four points that I thought you wanted. Yeah. And I'm like thinking, if I got a C, like, like, middling grade, I was like, I did it. I would give him a 30 percentage worried and be like, Oh, I'm doing terrific.

Ryan Taylor 1:22:56
Yeah, that was me in school as well. And then, but her mindset is sort of a mindset of about now that I'm not sure if she's very passionate about the the test she took. But there's certain things where I'm, I'm not my biggest critic in everything I do. And a lot of it. It's subjective, but when I'll do a professional restaurant, for example, it's totally subjective. Like people can think I was amazing. People think I was rubbish. I purely go on crowd noise because the crowd is loud. I did a good job I entertained. And but I I'll be obsessively over it, I will put the rest of the show into a program that tells me the different level of noise throughout the whole show. And I will see who gets the best reactions. Who gets the worst what moments that the best thing worse is the same a podcast if someone comes on our podcast or the comments, or one of our local football team, and he's funnier than me. Oh my god, I stay off for that. I used to call a bad joke. So I there's certain things that I ruthlessly hard on myself about but like I said, if it's that driver, make sure that she's okay, got that.

Scott Benner 1:24:00
Right. I'm just gonna say it again. I'm Danny DeVito. to your to your percenter. We're basically the same person. I did a TV show once where I was in front of a live audience like 500 people. And there's a moment when you can feel it. Like I've gotten I'm gonna say something in a second and they're gonna laugh and then I'm gonna move it in this direction and then this is gonna happen and then another person started speaking up it's a letdown for them and I'm not talking and very um, you can if you can see it anyway.

Ryan Taylor 1:24:35
I Yeah. I love I love it because it there's so much growth like people would think after doing that relatively Oh, this guy's got insane confidence. You can do anything. But I said the rest of the stuff came just after it was one of the first things that messaged me after like come in to help us build an audience for the show. At first time I went to ring God I thought I was confident talking I thought I could engage audience I thought I would know Oh, You'd be quiet when they're loud. So you don't want to get you don't want to basically when you watch the bag, the crowds booing over you talk and you kind of hear what you're saying. I've thought I'd have all these things down to a point and I watch my first show now cringe but you It's so good to see your progression in a certain subject because at the start I've got a heartbeat see be and I'll just be hoping no one's gonna say anything, like really bad. I think sort of what some fads to fansite agenda are who is AI for AI at this point, I was meant to be not a bad guy with regards to sort of play in the middle because I hadn't decided what they wanted me to be. They're going to base it off the crowd. So I got I got their reactions All right, but then some lads Snapchatting who I think I was trying to think my feet before it's a bad guy. I was like more relevant than you that's who I am. And then they all booed we got a situation we will offer written feedback like, just like in that second. I love that I have like a wet your brain to turn around. Because if not, some people can crumble under that sort of pressure. I'm having a live audience heckling. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:26:03
I love speaking in front of people. I don't know what that says. Only but I enjoyed it very much. All right, Ryan, I have to let you go because I'm going to propose to you in a second and I'm gonna have to go to have to explain to my wife and I'm leaving her for a guy in his 20s in in London. So you just really I had such a just a lovely time speaking with you. This is terrific.

Ryan Taylor 1:26:24
No, it was so much fun. Yeah, so I'm not gonna lie when you said oh, we're just winging it. And then you didn't I expect you like oh, well, roughly talking about this will roughly talk about that. But we'll wait and get and let me just said that show headphones winging it. And I was I couldn't go off the cuff but I just thought I was gonna have a really boring chat. And this has been hilarious. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:26:41
no, I'm really good at this Ryan.

Ryan Taylor 1:26:47
would be if so it's okay. It was a bad conversation. Something's really went wrong.

Scott Benner 1:26:52
I've never like had I've never made a podcast and thought Oh, nobody can hear that. That'll be terrible. I I have one question before I let you go really early on like an hour and a half ago you said as happy as Larry. Yeah, what does that mean?

Ryan Taylor 1:27:10
It's a it's a weird British saying that it's just no I'm not sure if there's I don't know there's an actual Lowry This is somewhere in my IQ mate might fail. I don't know if there's actual Larry this this seems based off but it's like Hafeez Lowery's like just someone who's having the best time almost a bit like delusional to like anything that's going wrong in his life. He's just always having a good time.

Scott Benner 1:27:30
So it's, it looks like it's, I'm looking it up here. Larry, the best known character in a world of similes. The expression He instigates is most likely to be of Australian or New Zealand origin. Earliest printed reference known from the writer gl mirdif Dating 1875

Ryan Taylor 1:27:51
Oh God, I know it's been it's been I've always heard this a lot. I was happy as Ireland this happened. So as well and with like someone who's almost just everything's going great for that person. Alone. She is usually used because everything was so good. And then something happened.

Scott Benner 1:28:07
So popular Australian writer Tom Collins in 1903, in something called barrier of truth wrote, now that the adventure was drawing to an end, I found a peace of mind that all the old fogies on the river couldn't disturb. I was as happy as Larry is Larry. You go Alright, well, nothing Ryan. That's what your episodes called. I love it.

A huge thanks to Ryan for coming on the show today and sharing what he knows about type one diabetes. Thought he was terrific. Thanks also to the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next one.com forward slash juice box use my link support the show. Speaking of links and support the show better help.com forward slash juice box save 10% off your first month of therapy with better help. I sincerely appreciate when you guys use the links. It really does keep the show going. So if you're looking for Dexcom on the pod contour BetterHelp Athletic Greens us med what else touched by type one so many chi voc hypo pen? I think that's it right now. No, no, no, no, it's not it cozy earth.com use the offer code use box at checkout to save 35% If you're looking for anything about those, please use my links. Sorry, I just turned my head to read off a whiteboard. I can't it's a lot of them. It's hard to keep straight in my mind. I can't thank you enough for listening sincerely. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. You're probably right now thinking I can't believe we got through this whole episode. Scott didn't do one like I really like British accent the whole time I didn't What do you think of that op ed growing up didn't even mention Harry Potter

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#911 T1D, Lupus and Epilepsy

Makayla has type 1 diabetes, lupus and epilepsy.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 911 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On this episode of the podcast I'll be speaking with Mikayla, she's a 22 year old type one who has a seizure disorder, and lupus. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. I got some stuff for you here, you can save 10% off your first month of therapy, when you go to better help.com forward slash juicebox how'd you like to save 35% off of pajamas, bedding, towels and so much more you can at cozy earth.com Just use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 35% Their stuff is soft, it is quality and you will love it cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout. If you're looking for community around diabetes, check us out on Facebook Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes is a private Facebook group with almost 40,000 members in it. There's 110 posts a day, someone there 24/7 If you're looking for community and support. That's the place. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one from athletic greens. I drink ag one every morning and you can to athletic greens.com forward slash juice box with your first order you'll get five free travel packs, and a year supply of vitamin D where you use my link athletic greens.com forward slash juice box. And if you're already an ag one drinker, no shame in the game. If you switch over to me, you know I'm saying if you're getting through another link, get it through Scotties link athletic greens.com forward slash juice box on September 16 That touched by type one annual conference is happening in Orlando, Florida. You can go to the website right now you click on programs go to it. It says Where can I see a list of speakers and sessions it says We are finalizing this list check back in a couple of weeks to view the complete list of speakers and sessions. Here's what I know. I'm gonna be there. And I think some other people you like are gonna be there too. I don't think I'm supposed to say their names. But I mean, Jenny touched by type one.org. Check it out, would you head over there?

Makalay 2:39
My name is Michaela. I'm 22 years old. And obviously I'm type one diabetic. And I've been diabetic for 15 years now.

Scott Benner 2:48
Wow. That's seven years old when you were diagnosed? Yes, I was seven. You're impressed at all with how quickly I did that.

Makalay 2:58
I am Thank you.

Scott Benner 3:00
Thank you very much. There click with math. It's my goal to impress people who are bad at math with my math.

Makalay 3:07
You impress me because I'm not good at math at all. So

Scott Benner 3:10
I could tell because you just take the 20 and you subtract the 15. Right, and then you're left with five and you add two and you have seven it's pretty quick.

Makalay 3:16
Perfect really quick. All right.

Scott Benner 3:20
So do you have any brothers or sisters?

Makalay 3:23
I do actually have a really big family. I'm the youngest of seven kids. So I have four older sisters and two older brothers. And then I have three brother in law's now and four for how many? I have one niece and three nephews and four on the way

Scott Benner 3:43
and Jesus are their siblings younger than you are right. Um, no, I'm

Makalay 3:47
the youngest. The youngest. Okay.

Scott Benner 3:49
We'll get there. My math fell apart in two seconds. Okay.

Makalay 3:52
Yeah, that's a lot.

Scott Benner 3:54
So, wow. Your parents? Like, is this a? Is it a mixed family? Are these the same parents of all seven kids?

Makalay 4:04
No same parents and no twins at all.

Scott Benner 4:07
Wow. Mikayla, is this a religious thing? There's a lot of No,

Makalay 4:12
it's not my parents just wanted a big family. They're like, the more the merrier. So well, they got one seven kids was best for them.

Scott Benner 4:19
What did your dad sleep like three hours a day and your mom has 14 part time jobs

Makalay 4:26
are older now. But yeah, yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:28
would imagine right. He was probably the guy who like came in the house at like, eight o'clock me like there's that guy that slaps mom on the butt. And then because I'm assuming I'm assuming Mikayla, he had to keep it hot to make seven kids. You know what I mean? Don't Don't think about it at all. It'll just make you upset. So you're you're seven when you're diagnosed. You're the youngest kid. Are some of your siblings. So old. They were out of the house by the time you got diabetes. He's,

Makalay 5:01
um, yes. In college. So I think when I was diagnosed there was five of us in the house.

Scott Benner 5:10
Wow. What did you mean? Who took care of you? Mainly?

Makalay 5:14
My mom and my dad, mostly my mom, because she was home with me. And our schools were pretty nearby. So she was always the one that coming to school and giving me shots before the nurses were allowed to do that. Or the school nurses, but mostly my mom. But I had a really good support system with like, my whole family. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:32
Okay. Well, that's nice. Um, were you born in 2000?

Makalay 5:36
I was there you go with your math again? Oh, no, no, no,

Scott Benner 5:38
hold on. That's not don't give me credit for that. It's my my son was born in 2000. Really? Yeah. And it's the greatest thing because it's, I always know how old he is by the year. Yeah, you don't have to be convenient. It is insanely convenient, actually. So. And that's what made me think that so. So you were born in 2000. You were diagnosed in 2007. And still, the people at your school wouldn't help right away? Or how did that go?

Makalay 6:07
I think like right away since I was in second grade. My school was pretty small. It was only second and third grade in the school. And I think I was actually the only diabetic there might have been one other kid, but it was pretty new, I think to my school nurse. I mean, she was like, amazing. But at first it definitely was a lot of my mom coming in and working with the nurse and working out schedules. But eventually my nurse was giving me shot to just took like a little bit of an adjustment period.

Scott Benner 6:35
Okay, so your mom didn't do it forever. She just did it in the beginning. Yeah, just to start off, where you just literally just had needles at that point.

Makalay 6:45
Yes, I was. I was shot for seven years.

Scott Benner 6:48
Okay. Any any CGM or anything like that in those first seven years?

Makalay 6:53
I got my CGM. I got the g4 right when it came out. So I think that was I don't know, like 2013 or 2014.

Scott Benner 7:02
Okay. Was it really? Is that your first 120 13?

Makalay 7:07
I'm the first one I got was the Dexcom g4 Right when it came out. I think that was 2014. Okay. And right in my eighth grade, so I think it was like 2013 2014 ish.

Scott Benner 7:19
I see. And were you have you been using some sort of a CGM since then?

Makalay 7:23
Yeah, I've been sticking with the Dexcom. Okay. Alright. So

Scott Benner 7:27
you have to the G six at this point. I am Gotcha. All right. Okay, so what was it? I have a question, but I'm not sure what it is yet. Still learning about you. I feel like I need to know more thing about you before I can ask my question. So did you play sports in school?

Makalay 7:47
I did play sports. Basically, my whole life. What did you play? When I was younger, I think my parents signed me up for every single sport. There was like Community Soccer when I was younger, but and I was saying the other day, I think have played every sport besides basketball and volleyball. But I stuck with lacrosse, and then played that through like my childhood and in high school and then started field hockey in high school. So I played field hockey for four years lacrosse, like track in middle school. So I like running.

Scott Benner 8:22
Look, yeah, yeah, you're gonna have to if you're doing that stuff, lacrosse, lacrosse is the long tennis racket with a little event right? Is Yeah. Description. Field Hockey is the one where they make this stick to shorts. You have to bend over the whole time. Yep. I know what they're okay. Did you end up going to college?

Makalay 8:40
I did go to college. just graduated, right? I did. Yeah, I was. It's so nostalgic. Like, I was so excited to graduate. But I now home and I miss it so much. What was your major? I majored in linguistics for speech pathology.

Scott Benner 8:57
Wow, do you have any, any leads for jobs yet?

Makalay 9:02
Well, I have to go to grad school. So I decided to take this fall semester off and then start grad school in the winter. So I'm doing applications for that now. But unfortunately, I like can't get any job until I have my master's. But I've definitely been like doing shadowing and things like that, just to get experience. And I really love it. So I wanted to make sure I really, really loved it before I committed to go into grad school.

Scott Benner 9:28
That's that's incredibly you know, that's very smart. So is this a year or two years of grad school to get through?

Makalay 9:35
Two years.

Scott Benner 9:37
Okay. All right. So do you have do you have schools in mind and you just have to apply or are you just hoping one of them

Makalay 9:44
weighing it all out. I personally like the way I learned I really love the online schooling and like remote learning. So I'm looking into a lot of those programs but I'm definitely not like not considering in person because in person like class It's just nice as well. But it's just more finding a school that would start in the winter that is like the right fit for me. So I'm looking at a whole bunch of different schools just hopefully getting into

Scott Benner 10:11
Can you tell me more about why you prefer online versus in person.

Makalay 10:16
Um, I like online just because I like being able to like, go back and rewatch lectures and like, pause them and take notes. And in like, class, I did get like accommodations for that when I was in college. Like, I was able to like record lectures if I wanted to. But I think having like the zoom, and, like watching it, and then the recording of it going back and like going to special points, I was like, confused, I really liked that part of it. And I also now that I'm like, older, I like being able to, if it's like online, live wherever I want because like my friends are getting jobs now. So like, who don't have to go to grad school. So if they're like moving out into us, and like I could live with my friends if I wanted to, and I'm not really like, I down to wherever my university is. I said I would go

Scott Benner 11:02
to Yeah, that makes sense. Is your mom and dad, they're like, You got to get out of here? Or did they still have other kids living with them?

Makalay 11:11
I'm the only one right now. And they're totally fine with it. I think they love it. At least I hope so don't make it seem like they do. So if they're faking and doing a great job, but I think they actually do like me being here.

Scott Benner 11:22
I bet you they do call my son at home. And I think it's terrific. I really love it. It's actually interesting that Arden left for college last week. And it gives Cole the ability to be like the only child for a while like art and got to do that while Cole was in college. And now he's getting to do it. And you have a different I don't know like it's not a relationship, the relationships the same, but the your ability to spend time with people and, and it changes you know, because you're not splitting your time between a bunch of people like though, I'm going to tell you right now, Makayla, the thing I love the best about art not being here. She's such an indecisive eater. So she comes into the room and she's just like, I'm hungry. And it's very, like, I'm hungry. And I'm like, okay, cool. What do you want to I don't know, then. And then she lays in a pile like it's a like a 1950s like black and white movie and lays there. Like, we don't want to eat something. I don't know what I want. What do we have? And now and then you you stand in the kitchen going? Well, we have a you start listing everything like just open the refrigerator listed. I know. That doesn't sound right.

Makalay 12:38
Okay, thank you don't know what you want, but you want something but nothing sounds good.

Scott Benner 12:43
45 minutes later, she's just like, forget it. You're like, wait a minute, what?

Makalay 12:50
Aren't you still hungry?

Scott Benner 12:51
You're still I'm still hungry. We don't have anything. I been listing things for 20 minutes. It's not possible that you don't think we don't have anything you know. So I can't I'm so happy. She's not here because of that one thing other than that, I really miss her. And I can see when she Bolus is on Nightscout. And truth is, she's eating on a very like, like, she apparently can figure out what to eat when she's by herself, just not when I'm there. So anyway,

Makalay 13:20
as long as there's no influence, she can figure it out. She's like, Oh,

Scott Benner 13:25
I'll never understand it completely. Like, like, you know, she'll eventually eat something and be like, this isn't what I want. I don't know about you, Michaela. But I grew up in the 70s. It's a time a long time ago. And my mom would take a piece of paper and write Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then she'd write a food underneath of it that we could afford. Not even like, you know, anything people wanted. And she cooked that schedule every week. And then as I got older, she got lazy and stopped moving them around. So it was just like Thursday, we had chicken. And that was it. You don't I mean, she couldn't even like put chicken on Monday just to be exciting. So anyway, you're living? Nice. Yes, like, oh, it's interesting. You would like that, huh?

Makalay 14:17
I think so. But then also, like, last minute, I might see something and be like, ooh, actually, I don't think I want that. And then it's like, well, it's already right there. So I guess I have to eat it.

Scott Benner 14:26
There's a question about you getting an accommodation at college. Do you have a diagnose issue that you were able to point to? Or was it as easy as telling the college look, this just works better for them for me, can I do it like this?

Makalay 14:39
So I also have epilepsy. And I've had I think seven seizures and most of them I've been like standing and then I'll fall on hit my head. So I've had a lot of concussions. So I really like struggled with I called post concussions concussion syndrome. It's basically just like prolonged headache. and like, makes you like really tired and sometimes hard to focus. I also am like a little bit like add so.

Scott Benner 15:08
So that was enough to

Makalay 15:10
Yeah, they were really good about working with me and like, giving me my options and asking me what I wanted, which I thought was really nice instead of having like, one like uniform accommodations that everybody gets. So that was really nice. I also got like, the eating and class and things like that. And if my phone goes off for my Dexcom, obviously, like, professors don't really get mad about phones a lot. Like a lot of them don't. But like if my phone's going off, I liked my professors knowing that like, it wasn't my friend calling me like, my blood sugar's high, like my blood sugar's low, right? But yeah, it was really nice that my school was so flexible with me,

Scott Benner 15:47
it is, it's, um, art in school was incredible. They had a meeting in the summertime before she left. And the person just was like, hey, just explain my your life to me. And we talked, talked about it and, you know, said, look, there's, we know, there are things we can ask for here. But the truth is, they're not necessary. So we're not gonna we're not going to burden you with like, everything, we would make everything perfect. Just you know, is there a possibility because art in school is spread out over a city? Like, can we leave some supplies in a couple of buildings? Just so? Yeah, just so she doesn't get, you know, 20 minutes by bus away from where she's living, and suddenly have to run home? Like, you know, can we? Can we have a tiny refrigerator in her room? We got one of those little I don't know if you ever seen another like medicine, refrigerators? They look good. They would hold two cans of Coke maybe? And, yeah, keep her insulin there just in case like her roommates. Don't you don't I mean, like, we didn't want to put the in somewhere. Everybody was constantly moving around it. Yeah, exactly where we could save you. They were really great. So tell me a little bit about the other things that are going on with you. So epilepsy, is that a seizure disorder that you've had your whole life? Or did it develop over time,

Makalay 17:03
so is the seizure disorder, I got diagnosed with it and 2015. But by that, that year, I've already had two seizures before that. And it's actually really like the Dexcom. We were so grateful for it, because for a while, like I had two seizures, one, like, within the year I was diagnosed, and then another one in seventh grade. And when I went to the hospital, they my mom was saying, like, I don't think that this is diabetes related. And of course, like their first thing was like, Oh, her blood sugar was low. And then we would be like, Okay, well, I checked my blood sugar right after and it's perfect. And then we would usually get the response like, oh, during like that state, her body will naturally like, bring the blood sugar back up. And we always were like, a little bit weary about it. But I only had the two seizures by that point. And then the one in 2015. That summer, I had three, but the first one, I had my Dexcom. So we finally were like, here's the proof, like my blood sugar wasn't low, my blood sugar was fine. And then they did like more in depth testing and like EGS. And so like, I guess, like watching my brain activity and things like that. And then they found that it was irregular. And then I've been on medicine for it since 2015. But I've had a couple more because they're like some factors. Like if I'm like super tired, things like that. And like if I'm sick, and I guess the blood sugar could play a role in it. I guess if my blood sugar is like really low, I could have a seizure. But I think that like, that's a risk that a lot of people have. But yeah, so I've had I had my last one was in May of 2021. And it was because I was I had finals, and I was not being responsible as they should have been and not sleeping as much. So I was not I was pretty sleep deprived. So that's why I had that one. But it's been nice that every time I have one we're able to, like attribute it to, like why it happened. It's not like, what happened there. It's like, oh, she was super tired. That's why it happened. But why but yeah,

Scott Benner 19:06
let me just have questions. Sure. Okay, so from the time you had your first seizure, until somebody agreed that it wasn't diabetes related, how long was that?

Makalay 19:16
Um, I have one in 2008 and then another and 2013. So I guess there was two.

Scott Benner 19:26
So yeah, 2008 2013 then you finally got meds in 2015. So sometime between 2013 and 2015, you were able to explain to somebody this wasn't diabetes.

Makalay 19:38
So I had one in the spring of 2015. And then that's when we were like, look at my Dexcom my Dexcom is showing that my blood sugar was fine. And the doctors at that point were like, shocked. They're like this Dexcom is so cool. I'm like this Dexcom just saved my life because I want to be on medication. Yes.

Scott Benner 19:56
Seven years. Mikayla seven years for you. To be able to talk somebody into it, and you're only having them, I don't want to say only but they're pretty, like 2008 2013. It's five years, and then it takes two more years to have another one. Then you get the medication. Do you think the medication is helping? Because it was, was it six years till your next one and 2021?

Makalay 20:18
I think it was helping. So I had two more in the summer of 2015. And that was because one of the medications I'm on, it's you have to work up in it in like small doses. So I wasn't on they said, like a therapeutic level yet. So I just I couldn't have I would break out in like a rash or something, if I took too much of it. So I was still working up on the medication. So that's why I had two more than they actually were the same day. And then Christmas of 2017. I had another one and then may 2021.

Scott Benner 20:54
So I want to except I want to ask you a question. That's kind of fresh in my mind. Because while we're recording this in September, you're this won't come out for a while. But tomorrow, believe it or not, the next episode of the podcast with Arden is coming out. Oh, really? That's so sweet. And in in that episode, we sit down the night before she goes to college, and we just record late at night before we go. And I really thought we were going to just talk about management. Like I wanted to go over all the management stuff with her one more time, you know, and I thought, Oh, it'll be interesting for people to hear the things that I've talked to her about. And of course, Arden's personality just does not allow for that. She doesn't want to hear about it that way. And, and in two seconds, we direct the conversation to Rails. And she brings up that she had a seizure after her senior prom. Oh, really? Yeah. But it was it was blood sugar related. And so she goes to she explains the whole thing, you know how it happened and everything we tell the whole story. But, you know, she was talking about, she was talking about it felt like she was jumping. And then she explained what that was. And she said that there were other people in the room. So when hurt when she would, I guess her brain took a picture of what she was seeing, like, for instance, her friend would be across the room in the corner. But the next time she was aware of anything, the friend was 10 or 12 feet closer to her. And she said it. And she talked about it jumping. And I was just wondering what a seizure feels like for you.

Makalay 22:30
So mine, I actually like don't remember anything I remember like the moment up to it and then waking up and it's usually like paramedics that's like the first like vision or whatever I have when I wake up, but it's crazy because I've had seizures. Usually there's other people in the room. Besides one of them. I was like upstairs and my brother and my mom heard it. But I the one I had on Christmas, my whole family was in the room like my siblings. And they said that like I remember putting I was under blanket. And then they said like once I was under the blanket, that's when it happened. So it's like kind of crazy to think about up to the moment and then it's basically like I blacked out and then wake up.

Scott Benner 23:11
And do you have any deficits when you wake up? Or are you just like back on, you're like, Hey, I'm here.

Makalay 23:17
Um, um, usually it takes me a little bit to like, figure out what happened. There's this I try to be a very nice person. There's been a couple of times, I was a little bit like, like, I remember this is kind of funny, but my driveway goes in front of my house. So I had the seizure. I woke up and it was night. So I saw all the paramedics like ambulances, the cops, like all their flashing lights. And my first thing was like, Are you going to turn those off? Like, you know, you can have another seizure right now. And I think that's like the meanest thing I've ever said when I woke up. But other than that, it's usually just me like, trying to figure out what happened. And then I don't usually want to go to the hospital when I'm like, like that. So they're usually saying like, you need to go to the hospital and I'm like, trying to bargain with them. Like no, guys, it's fine. Like, don't worry, I'm fine. And everyone's like, you're obviously not fine, but I'm just tired afterwards for like a day or two. But I usually bounce back pretty quick.

Scott Benner 24:07
That's your love. That's as mean as you've gotten

Makalay 24:12
with the paramedics I just like felt that after I said that, but I hope that they like forgot that happened. And if they remember they like she just had a seizure. She doesn't know what's going on. But it's funny because I didn't know if that actually happened or not like I asked my mom like I think it was like a week later and I was like wait, did I say this? Did I did I dream that that happened? She's like no, you actually said that. And I felt terrible. I was like I want to go to the like firehouse where the paramedics are and like apologizing my mom's like, I don't even think they're gonna remember you said that but

Scott Benner 24:41
I haven't asked this in a while but why are you so nice?

Makalay 24:45
I just try to be a nice person.

Scott Benner 24:49
Of course, I think that's a beautiful goal. I'm not saying I'm just why is there like pressure to be nice.

Makalay 24:57
No, I just tried to be like I think that when I think about like, I'm being like diabetic and I also have like lupus and epilepsy and like everything going on, I try to be like a happy and nice person. And I think like other people, like you never know what people are going through. And like, if you looked at me, you probably wouldn't know maybe if you saw like my Dexcom or my pump, you would suspect diabetes, but you wouldn't under like, you wouldn't see that I have everything else going on. So I like try to think like, oh, other people are going through things. So why not be nice? You never know what people are going through, like at home or what they have going on. So just try to like, think of other people and be nice to them.

Scott Benner 25:35
That's lovely. Are you are you using a tube pump now?

Makalay 25:38
I am I'm using the T slim. Okay.

Scott Benner 25:41
So I'm stalking I'm trying to figure out who you are on Facebook. I think I've got you. So I

Makalay 25:46
think it's under K.

Scott Benner 25:48
We don't say your name. Kava.

Makalay 25:50
Oh, I'm sorry.

Scott Benner 25:50
I'm sorry. Just teasing. Hopefully. Okay. So, you know where I live? Right. Um, I don't know, in New Jersey and central New Jersey. So you went? You went? Dress? No, no. Mikayla, do you think I was like, do you know my exact address? But you went to college near me, right? Yes. Okay. All right. So I have the right person. So So okay, you look delightful. Like you look, your face matches the, the attitude that you have. It's very lovely. Okay, so you have no recollection of the seizures? Can you feel them coming on?

Makalay 26:34
I can't, unfortunately, a lot of people get like that aura, but I don't. Wow.

Scott Benner 26:39
So I guess what I want to talk to you about then, in the moment, before we get to the diabetes and the other stuff you mentioned. What's it like, psychologically to think you could just shut off?

Makalay 26:54
Um, it's definitely, like, gives me a lot of anxiety. But it's usually I get like that anxiety like after I had a seizure, because I think like, that just happened, like for like, a month or so after I'm like, a little bit like, apprehensive, but I tried to just like, say, like, I'm taking my medicine, everything's gonna be fine. And if something happens, like, I know, I have people around me that will help me and I know that I'll be okay. Because I've been okay. Every time I've had another one. I just hope I don't fall and hit my head because I had six concussions. So I'm like, Please, no more concussions. I guess that's one of my worries. But I tried to just like, like, have faith in like my medicine and know that I'm, I'm going to be okay, just kind of, like try to be positive affirmations. Like, that's never going to happen again. Like, I'm going to be good. Like, don't worry about it. But I mean, there definitely are times when I'm like, maybe I didn't sleep enough. Like, I should be a little worried then. But I really tried to just be like, positive about it and not, like, think of it in like negative way. But I do like it does make me a little nervous.

Scott Benner 27:59
Well, I mean, it's obvious that you're keeping a good attitude, but I mean, do you drive?

Makalay 28:05
I do drive? Yeah, I've never gotten my license taken away, which was good. I was always nervous about that.

Scott Benner 28:12
But you wouldn't if I said, You, Makayla, you should learn how to fly a plane, you'd be like, that's definitely a bad idea. Yeah, that's definitely do you do do you wear identification that says you have because if you have diabetes, and a seizure disorder, and you pass out, they're gonna give you something for the diabetes no matter what I would imagine. Mm hmm. So do you have like identification?

Makalay 28:38
Yeah, I wear my Apple watch. And on my Apple watch, I have like a little it's like a sleeve almost that goes on the band. And it says like type one diabetes, it says, Pepsi and endo insulin dependent. So I try to wear that every day.

Scott Benner 28:53
I'm trying to imagine myself as a as a paramedic showing up and I'm like, oh, insulin, diabetes, this kit await epilepsy. I don't know what to do now. Now. I guess they check your face more to it. Yeah. Right. Does this make dating difficult or no?

Makalay 29:11
Um, no, just because like I said, like, I feel like, this is my I don't know, you can't really see what's going on right off the bat. So it's not usually something like I talk about right away. But no, it hasn't.

Scott Benner 29:26
Okay. What about the other stuff, which you said, I'm sorry, I lost track because this is kind of fascinating, but fascinating to me, Miguel. Not to you. You're like yeah, no, it sucks Scott. But it's fascinating for this lupus.

Makalay 29:45
How do you do this?

Scott Benner 29:47
How do they diagnose lupus I thought is lupus a, like a diagnosis of exclusion? Do they just tell you everything you don't have or is there actually a way they can tell you? You have lupus.

Makalay 29:57
So there's like this criteria. Korea have, I'm not sure like the amount I would want to say like 13 to 15 like symptoms. And I think if you have like five or six of them, then you are considered like a Lupus diagnosis, obviously with like, blood work that's consistent with it as well. And like other symptoms, like I know, like one of them is like a blood a butterfly rash, like, that's one of the symptoms that is like a, like a marker, I guess, for lupus. But the way I got diagnosed was actually like, crazy. I started having like allergic reactions to tree nuts in January 2021. And it was like crazy, like, my body would break out in hives, I'd like feel like my throat was like scratchy and was like scary. So I, I cut the train out out, I stopped eating them and went to an allergist and it was during COVID. So she only did zoom. So I was telling her over zoom with my mom like this is what happens and she's like, Okay, you definitely have a trainer allergy like I'm prescribing you an epi pen, everything. But then she's like, but I want to do bloodwork, like let's see if there's anything else you're allergic to. So she calls me and she's like, weird because you're not showing any sensitivities at all to any nuts at all. Like your your bloodwork looks good. So I'm going to test your blood for autoimmune things. So I'm like, Great, okay, another autoimmune thing, but I'm like, okay, like, whatever. And yeah, I'm like, awesome, okay. But she calls his back and she's, I guess, like, the, it's like an AMA marker or something like that was positive. And she's like, this is a, this test is usually like tells you you have lupus, and she's like, I'm an allergist. So I can't diagnose you with that. But I like strongly recommend you go to a rheumatologist because like this, this is like when this is positive, like you have lupus. So I'm like, awesome. Find a rheumatologist. And she says I have it. But I've been like really good with not having symptoms. Like, one of the symptoms is I like your joints and hurt and like body aches. And by stiffness, which I feel like sometimes, but it goes away. And it's like manageable. So I'm not on any medication for that yet. I'm just hoping I never will have to be but it's just a pill. So if I have to go on it, it's not the end of the world. But I'm trying my best to not have to do that. Because it I guess like with lupus it can like flare and I haven't had a flare in a while. So so far so good with that, but that's like a fairly new diagnosis. So

Scott Benner 32:40
are you allowed to have nuts now?

Makalay 32:42
Yeah, I am. I was so upset because I like had to get rid of peanut butter. I'm like, I love peanut butter. And I can have it now. It was really a sad time, mostly because I was like, I missed so many foods. I didn't realize how many like peanuts and tree nuts.

Scott Benner 32:55
I was gonna say because I was reading a list of tree nuts while you were explaining this. Like, I wouldn't care if they told me I couldn't eat any of these things. So no,

Makalay 33:02
I was so upset.

Scott Benner 33:04
Well, and you're so sweet. I didn't make any kind of joke about nuts in your mouth, because I just don't know how to do it. Because you're so nice. Three different versions of it teed up while you were talking. I was like, Nah, can't do it. What am I gonna do with this girl? She's so sweet. I mean, you know, you were worried about offending the paramedics when you were like, hey, please turn off those flashy lights.

Makalay 33:32
I still feel so bad about that. I don't think I'll ever get over it.

Scott Benner 33:36
When you came on, tell them. As soon as you started talking like a half hour ago. I actually double checked with you about your age because I thought because of your voice. Like maybe I didn't. I thought maybe you were younger than I thought. So.

Makalay 33:48
I'm like lying about my age. No, it'd

Scott Benner 33:50
be on a diabetes podcast. Yeah. Gotcha. What? Oh my gosh, you're such a rebel. Okay, so the lupus diagnosis is from the the AMA response that they got with the testing, but beyond some like, uncomfortableness in your joints. You don't have anything to say like that. That you noticed. Frequently

Makalay 34:21
it's fine. It was weird because the allergic reactions like stopped so they said that that was part of it because like my feet might like my body a break out in hives, but like I would have a rash like that was like kind of looked like a butterfly rash. So they were saying like that could be part of it. That was one of like symptoms, but my bloodwork was really consistent with it. So they're like yeah, sorry, you have it. Okay. But other than that, I don't really feel any symptom. They definitely get like tired sometimes, but I'm like I have so much going on. I don't know what this is from. I could just be tired. But I was so far so good, which I'm really happy

Scott Benner 34:58
about for every thyroid levels check.

Makalay 35:01
Um, I have and they've been fine but a lot of my sisters and my mom have like thyroid issues. I don't know if it's hypo or hyperthyroidism. Okay.

Scott Benner 35:11
Do you know what the medicine is they take the word Synthroid.

Makalay 35:17
Yeah, it's that so hypo.

Scott Benner 35:19
And do you know if there's our auto immune Hashimotos or just hypothyroidism?

Makalay 35:26
Um, I know my one sister has Hashimotos I think my mom and my other sister are just like him. I don't think they have the Hashimotos.

Scott Benner 35:39
So when you say your levels are okay, do you know what they were?

Makalay 35:44
Um, no. I wish I did. I wish I had that. That's okay. But I did get tested for celiac. And they said it was like borderline like the level one was one away from having celiac after not eating gluten for three months. So it's never confirmed, but they're like, basically you probably do but I just don't list that. I'm like, I can't add anything else to this list. But I eat gluten free I just say because it's an intolerance, but I probably have celiac. I'm like too scared to get that level of tested again.

Scott Benner 36:27
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Makalay 38:13
Exactly. I promise I'm responsible like medically I'm very responsible. But that is just something I'm like. It's fine.

Scott Benner 38:21
But who are you promising right now? Me are the people listening? Everyone

Are you guys Catholic?

Makalay 38:35
We are

Scott Benner 38:36
Yeah, I can hear the guilt in your voice sometimes. It's okay. Jesus is alright with what you're doing. Michaela. Don't worry about it. Let me let me let you off the hook. Okay.

Makalay 38:45
I needed that. Thank you.

Scott Benner 38:47
Okay. Yeah. Do you like Do you have any of that? Like pressure?

Makalay 38:52
I'm not really we definitely like our Catholic but I'm not like going to church every Sunday, but I do have like, I guess like Catholic core like

Scott Benner 39:05
stuff that's in your head since childhood? Yeah,

Makalay 39:08
exactly. But it's I've never felt like any pressure from like religion to do anything, right? Like diapers, rot or anything.

Scott Benner 39:17
Like, what's the level of it though, when you're doing something wrong? And I'm making quotes because I can't imagine what you do. That's wrong. But when that's happening, do you picture Jesus on a cross? And you're like, oh, no, he died for my sins. I have to put this candy back. I can't shoplift or like, what's your level of pressure?

Makalay 39:33
No, I don't like think of the cross and Jesus or do I just think of like, okay, I guess I could like, I guess I don't have to do this. Like, this probably isn't the best option. I mean, I definitely like making mistakes all the time. But I try not to like, if I'm doing something and I like the I have. I've like very strongly, like I have like a guilty conscience. Like if I'm guilty about something like I'm not gonna let it down. So I just like really try to be truthful. For, I guess my own sake. So growing up, it's always like honesty's the best policy. So I have that nailed in my head as well.

Scott Benner 40:07
Nailed, no pun, right? Let me let me ask you a question. Okay. There's no consequences, right? No one's ever gonna know. And it's not going to matter. It's not going to hurt anything. What's one thing you would do that you would never do otherwise? Oh,

Makalay 40:25
I don't know. Um, maybe like somehow get free gas like with the gas prices these days? Like probably like get free gas somewhere. I don't know. I don't know. I can't think of anything off top my head. I'm gonna think of something in like an hour and be like, Man, I should have said that.

Scott Benner 40:44
McHale I gotta tell you if it wasn't, if it wasn't for the risk that I think the two of you would produce a super auto immune bomb. If you had a baby, I would introduce you to my son because that's just such a nice. I thought you were gonna be like, heroin. Maybe you know, like, No. No. Okay. Maybe I'd get cheaper gas. Yeah. Even free.

Makalay 41:09
I'm telling you in an hour, I'm gonna think of something and be like, that would have been so much better.

Scott Benner 41:15
Not like, I'd like to kill a person to see the life train out of their face. Nothing like that at all. Just just, I'd like cheaper gas, please. And if the gas prices were lower, I Where would you even go on with that idea. I have no idea. I'd like 15% off on like

Makalay 41:34
I know guys. It's so expensive. And my car takes so much gas. I'm like, Oh my goodness. Can we stop with this? So I guess it would just be completely free gas.

Scott Benner 41:41
Are your brothers and sisters this nice? Or is this? Are you an outlier?

Makalay 41:45
Um, you know, sibling wise, you know, there's always like sibling, like, like rivalries maybe, but I think we're all pretty nice.

Scott Benner 41:54
Okay. Background. So now you're Catholic. You're from the East Coast. Are you? Irish? Are you what's your background?

Makalay 42:03
A very Irish. So my dad is 100% Irish. I guess my grandmother came to America when she was 13. Like, right off the boat. So from Ireland. So she's my dad's very Irish. And my mom is very Irish, too. I think she has some maybe German or French in there, too. I think it's French, German and Irish. But we're very Irish family. Like all blue eyes. Blonde hair type thing? Yeah. My sisters have brown hair. But we're all like, we look Irish, I guess. Well, I

Scott Benner 42:39
didn't ask you just so I could call the episode very Irish, which I'm very close to doing. But I asked because the prevalence that I find with people from whose descendants come from that part of the world and autoimmune stuff. Really? Yeah, no kidding. Like, and there's other clusters like that Minnesota area from the Nordic there's like a lot of Nordic people of Nordic descent, like in Minnesota, Wisconsin. And it's, I don't know, there's something about that. There just is so interesting. I've

Makalay 43:10
never heard of that.

Scott Benner 43:12
Now. That's how I got to so like for everybody who's listening who's like, oh my god, Scott's amazing. He heard Giltner voice and thought she was Catholic. Not really, really what I figured out was first of all, Michela is like I found a picture of her. You know, you're a poster child for White. You don't I mean, so. Yeah. You're pretty white. And I was thrown off originally. Because your name I thought maybe she's Hawaiian. Like, but no. Oh, really? All right. And then then I was like, Okay, it's your last name with your first name that made me think that and so then I started realizing a lot of brothers and sisters, that's Catholic. Then super white, probably Irish. And then that's where I'm getting and then you said all your your brothers and a lot of your sisters have thyroid issues. And then you started talking about celiac. And I was like, This is it like this is? This is because of where your ancestors are from, in my opinion, that's the case. But please, I just didn't want people to think that I was omniscient. You know what I mean? It's just putting the pieces together. That's all talking about the rest of your family for a little bit. So you said the lot of the girls have thyroid stuff. Is there anything else? Anybody else? poop a lot after they eat or anything?

Makalay 44:25
We I'm trying to think um I don't know. I just feel like we have a lot of autoimmune issues going on. My sister is also celiac. Um, my other sister has a few like chronic conditions. Um, what else like my also like my mom, relatives like my aunt's also have like, my aunt is diabetic as well type one. So she is type one. Yes. And then she has another autoimmune condition as well. But Yeah, I just feel like we have a lot going on now. I'm like blinking.

Scott Benner 45:04
Okay, how many freckles? A lot. Yeah, in the

Makalay 45:07
summer. And this summer a lot.

Scott Benner 45:11
Lots of freckles. Yeah, yeah. More freckles, and you have autoimmune, that's for sure. But

Makalay 45:17
let's keep it that way.

Scott Benner 45:18
How about your dad? Does your dad have anything going on?

Makalay 45:21
Um, my dad, he has more like heart. Like conditions like that, but not autoimmune.

Scott Benner 45:30
What are we learning here? Mikayla? White people are ruining the world. Isn't that right?

Makalay 45:34
Yeah. Me, maybe it's just me. Just you. I'm kidding. But yeah,

Scott Benner 45:42
it just, it's fascinating, isn't it like, like, you know, every group of people have something that sometimes the other group doesn't get as frequently. And I'm just telling you like, after, I mean, I don't even know how many people I've talked to now, like, you seriously are in the hundreds for me, as far as my interviews go. So it's just there's something about it, like the type one diabetes and other autoimmune issues coming out of that part of Europe? I just, it's crazy now, is it? Is it people who have left Europe? And are here? Like, is it something about the mix of, I don't know, the wiring, and then the lifestyle or the geography? Like, I wonder, I wonder if I get to find more people in Ireland like, like, because from, from the conversations I'm having, it makes it feel like 80% of the people walking around Ireland must have an autoimmune issue.

Makalay 46:38
Yeah. You know, my parents just got back from Ireland. We have family that lives there. And we try to visit them like pretty frequently, but I actually reach out and ask them what's going on?

Scott Benner 46:48
I'd honestly love to know.

Makalay 46:51
I'll reach out to them. I don't I have to use like WhatsApp or something like that. But I'll reach out I have my dad ask them

Scott Benner 46:58
I know they're not allowed to use the phone over there. I don't I don't even

Makalay 47:01
know if they like have iPhones

Scott Benner 47:03
might well, they have they have iPhones. But it's very expensive for them to call over here. Yeah. Like, my daughter's friend just went to London for college. So cool. And she's like, I'm gonna show you guys like guys all gotta get WhatsApp. And we're like, I don't know, not doing I don't want to talk to you that badly. You don't I mean to have another app like Kayla. Seems like a lot.

Makalay 47:29
Does.

Scott Benner 47:31
How did you? You went to a really big university, but a lot of people. I don't want to tell anybody where you went. But, but I've always wondered how that's possible. Because every one of your classes is just probably lecture, right? You and hundreds of people in the lecture hall.

Makalay 47:49
So the class not like the classes, the higher level classes, those were usually like, smaller, okay, but a lot of like my Zoom classes, I minored in psychology, and I noticed, like, all the psychology classes were like, huge, huge lectures. But those were mostly like online. But it's actually funny, because, um, I ran I like, did random for my last or my two years at the junior and senior year, and my roommate also was diabetic. And we had no idea until I got there and met her. And I was like, Guys, I have to keep my insulin in the fridge like, hope you guys are good with that. And then my roommate was like, Oh, my goodness, I'm diabetic too. And I was like, Wow, that's crazy. That is insane, actually. Right. And she's like, my best one of my best friends now. So that's worked out.

Scott Benner 48:37
That's really, I mean, I want to say the odds of that are crazy, but maybe they're not. I don't know. I know. She does. I think the odds went way down. I think what we should say now is of course, she had diabetes. So

Makalay 48:57
everyone who's Irish should just get some test.

Scott Benner 49:00
Listen, I don't it's all just, you know, I don't know, circumstantial evidence as far as I'm concerned. Right? Like, it's just me just talking to people, but I don't know how many times somebody has to say something before you go. That's can't be a coincidence. I mean, honestly, the amount of people who come on who have a family member with some sort of bipolar disorder is is a lot like it's just a lot like think about it. Do you have a bipolar uncle summer? Probably kill us like

Makalay 49:34
family so big. It's like probably somewhere in the line. Yeah,

Scott Benner 49:38
no, no, it's really it's really something else. So okay, um, so you manage pretty slim are using control IQ?

Makalay 49:44
I am How do you like it? I love it. I noticed like my agencies have always been like, pretty good. Right after control IQ like my agency got even better and it's been like pretty consistent. It's so nice. Especially like I've It's like crazy to think that I never had low IQ like what was I? How did I do this without it, but I love it.

Scott Benner 50:05
No, it's excellent. How long you've been using it?

Makalay 50:10
Yeah, since it came out.

Scott Benner 50:11
Were you using Basal IQ before that?

Makalay 50:15
I don't think so. Okay. I wasn't I just went right into the control IQ.

Scott Benner 50:20
Do you listen to the podcast? How did you? How did you end up being on the podcast?

Makalay 50:25
Oh, my sister listened. I do listen. You're my sister. My sister's a big fan. I am too, obviously. But,

Scott Benner 50:32
Mikayla, this is super interesting. So your sister found a diabetes podcast to understand your diabetes better? Or because she thought there's no way one of my kids isn't going to have diabetes. So I got to figure

Makalay 50:43
her son is diabetics and my nephew is Oh,

Scott Benner 50:47
no. So it's you, your nephew, your aunt? Are there more? Not that I know of, you know of well, a second ago, there was only two or three.

Makalay 50:59
No, I mean, like, like relatives like I'm trying to think of like my aunts and my uncles and my cousins. I think it's just us three.

Scott Benner 51:06
Okay. Oh, okay. So your sister so your sister's like, I don't want to go on the podcast, but I'm gonna do it. Or do you think you'd

Makalay 51:14
love it? It's, I think just like the amount of like conditions I have, like, makes it interesting. But I think my sister would love it. She would rock it on your

Scott Benner 51:23
Well, first of all, she should come on if she wants to. But But don't you? Isn't that crazy? Like in what other walk of life? Would you say? You know, what made me a good guest is because I have a number of conditions. I sometimes wonder if people who are like, Oh, I just have diabetes, think I can't come on the show. I don't have enough wrong with me to like to be on this show. Because that's not the case.

Makalay 51:45
Anyone listening? Do not think that everybody is interesting and special in there. I just haven't have a lot going on.

Scott Benner 51:51
I'm gonna say this right now, if you're a lady who can't put nuts in their mouth, come on the show. We'll talk about it. You know a man. Yeah. I want to hear about all that stuff. Like, like, like allergies. And I'm fascinated by all of it. Like, the things that the things that people, you know, like, My son said to me is like, you can't just do a podcast forever about diabetes. I was like, Man, I don't even know if it's still about diabetes. To be perfectly honest with you. I was like, it's,

Makalay 52:22
you know, I think that's great, though.

Scott Benner 52:24
Yeah, there's a lot like talk about Yeah, we're learning more about people and things that they're running into. And for me, that other people listening? Like, I bet you, countless people will find a ton of likeness in the statement you made about your celiac, where you said like, I take care of it. I just don't want to know I have it.

Makalay 52:46
Yeah, sometimes, like, ignorance is bliss. Like I just try to think like, Okay, I'm taking care of it. It's all good. Don't worry about it.

Scott Benner 52:54
Because psychologically, I mean, how many more things can you know that you have? Like, isn't it some, isn't it? Listen, it's terrific that medicine can help people. But what's better living in 1970 Telling people like Oh, my wrist get tight, or walking around saying, I think I have lupus. You're me like, not that not that. No, not knowing is good. But for some of these things, that back then there was no medication for that. Like if your grandmother had her joints hurt. That was it. You know what I mean? Like, they weren't gonna do anything for ya. So like, maybe psychologically, it's comforting not to have to think I have four things wrong with me because it feels like that, right? Like, it feels like, yeah, there's something wrong. Sure. I'm still fascinated about the seizure disorder, though. Like, I don't know how you're keeping a good attitude. I don't know. Like, because so I mentioned earlier, excuse me that Arden had a seizure from a low blood sugar. And there's the episode you can go listen, hold on a second kill. I'll tell people what episode it is. You would think I would know, but you know, I'm about the I'm the last person who understands everything about the bites gonna be 757. It's called Arden is back. Because I keep thinking Arden's going to be on a lot. And I don't want to run out of art in titles. So anyway, she wanted to call it what did she want to call it? I can't think of what she wanted to call it. It was something funny, but inappropriate. I was like, we're just gonna call it Arden is back. So. But she talked about two very important things. Like if you don't go listen to the episode, here's the takeaway from it, that after Arden had a seizure, and you can go listen to all the myriad of variables that led to it happening, but that for a couple days afterwards, she couldn't even sleep by herself. Like she was almost 18. And she slept in bed with me and my wife for a couple of nights. And that's not something that would have been normal at all. And then one day, she said, I just thought, well, this is silly. And I And she's like, I just went back to my bed, but she was having trouble sleeping. If she wasn't, I think the way she put in the episode is like when you were there, I knew you'd take care of it if there was a problem, and I couldn't get the sleep otherwise, but then she got past that. And then she began to just Bolus normally again for her food like she didn't. And I've heard too many people on the podcast tell me, especially adults living alone. Like, look, I've had a couple seizures, so I leave my blood sugar higher now. And it's not that I don't understand the idea. But I was proud of Arden for just being like, No, I know why this happened. It was a really odd set of circumstances. And I'm not going to not take care of myself, because this happened one time, but you're in a different situation. Yours just happens like, like somebody bumped the light switch. So I'm fascinated that you're so I don't know, not mad. Where you're hiding it.

Makalay 55:57
I mean, I mean, sometimes I do get like a little bit frustrated about it, just because I'm like, annoyed that, like, I'm, this is gonna sound bad. But like, I sometimes get annoyed that like, I have to deal with this stuff. And like most other people don't like, obviously, like type one diabetes, plenty of people deal with epilepsy, plenty people deal with, like, everything not to like, I don't know, I just get on with it. Sometimes I'm like, I wish I didn't have to deal with the epilepsy part of it. But then like, when I start to think like that, I'm like, I have to be positive about this, or I'm gonna like dwell on it. And, like, think about it negatively. But it's funny you say not funny, sorry. But that's not the right word, but that she was sleeping with you because you're sleeping about with you. But like my parents, like, I remember after my last seizure in May, I woke up and my dad was sitting in my room and he my dad drinks his coffee, like so loudly and it like drives me insane. I remember I woke up my dad was like drinking his coffee so loud in my room, like, just making sure like, I was okay, because a lot of my seizures happened in the morning. And I was like, You need to get out like, you need to get out right now.

Scott Benner 57:02
What's your dad doing? Was your dad doing what I do with my oldest dog in the morning? Like I stare at it? And I'm like, do I see the chest moving at all?

Makalay 57:11
Like, is she good? Nothing's gonna happen. Right?

Scott Benner 57:15
Well, let me go backwards a little bit, because you just said something. And I'm not your parents. Mikayla. But you said this is going to sound bad. And then you said, sometimes I don't. I'm mad that other people don't have to deal with this. That doesn't sound bad. Because that sounds rather human. Yeah, I mean, it's okay to be it. So I think it's okay to be disappointed, or are angry or, you know, feel lost. But I also think that the way you handle it is admirable. Yeah, no, seriously, because you could easily just devolve into, like, black eyeliner, and, you know, Whippets pretty easily. And clearly, you clearly haven't done that you wouldn't even take completely free gas when I gave you a magic wand. So people work hard to get that oil out of the ground, and they deserve to be compensated to Scott. But seriously, like, I'm not worried for you that you that you preface it by saying this is going to sound bad. But I would I would offer to you that you shouldn't. You shouldn't think that way. You shouldn't you shouldn't you should feel the way you feel. And not worry about how it sounds to other people. Yeah, that makes sense. Because you're gonna don't apologize to me for it. Because you're you were very close to apologize.

Makalay 58:45
I was gonna because

Scott Benner 58:48
I know you Michaela, not you but people like you. And you know. So, alright, I want you to what do I want you to do? I don't want you to break a law. And I don't want you to do heroin. That was an over the top example. But you should do one thing that you think of is that you want to do that you wouldn't normally do. Just don't turn into like, seriously, don't do math or something like you and me like something lower than that. But, but I think you should do something that feels freeing.

Makalay 59:19
And then I'll be like, Scott told me to do it. Yeah. When

Scott Benner 59:21
you're sitting in jail, tell the people I was on a podcast and this guy said I should let go a little. But yeah, but seriously, though, like, just a little bit.

Makalay 59:30
Yeah. And I do like with my friends and stuff, but I like really try to be like, I don't know.

Scott Benner 59:37
So here's what I'm gonna say. I think you are a good person. I don't think I think you need to try to be a good person. Ah, do you see the difference?

Makalay 59:46
I do. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:48
Why are you thanking me? It's just nice to not do you not know you're a good person.

Makalay 59:55
No, I do. I do know. Okay, good.

Scott Benner 59:58
Yeah. So it's Do you see the distinction though, between trying to be good and actually just being good? Like for instance, I'm going to give you an example here that I should not give you. Okay, it's fine, but it's got a bit listen to the podcast. It's an interesting people are gonna stop listening. So let's be honest. Okay. This morning, Arden's in her second full week of college, I get a text from her that said, something like, bra. Does that be are you Ah, there's a kid in my class losing his mind. And she starts telling me the kid transferred in you know, it's only a weekend, I guess the kid dropped the class and pick this class on. He gets there and realizes that he's a, an assignment behind already. And literally just starts walking around the room going, Oh, God, Oh, God. Oh, god, Oh, God. And apologizing to the teacher, an artist like he's having a full on panic attack right now. And, you know, just absolutely terrible, right? Like anxiety. Not funny. Like, none of it's, it's terrible, right. So I know, I respond back and I say, I feel bad for this kid. Like, obviously, it's a tortured way to have to live. This is not a big deal. Like this is a design class. Like Mikayla for clarity. The assignment that the kid missed is drawing lines in succession that get dimmer and dimmer and dimmer, just to teach you pressure with a pencil, right? This is done it like the back of the class. It's accomplishable to fix this problem, right? And instead, my, my daughter says, now he's saying, I'm, I wish I could have I'm gonna try to find the quote for you. Because I found it very sad, because this is not. I mean, obviously, this is not a big deal, right? It is to him, but it isn't in the grand scheme of things. This is a quote, I'm supposed to relax when everything is falling apart around me. So in this kid's mind, this scenario, is everything falling apart around him. And I have all the compassion in the world for that. I think anybody listening knows that. I don't think this is funny that I think it's terrible. And I hope the kid gets help. As a matter of fact, I say to her, like, hey, you know, with somebody helping him. He needs to get to a counselor is the professor doing something I say all the right stuff. And then when I realized it's getting tense in the room, and Arden needs a little comic relief. I said, you know, in 1850, his parents would have helped him have a swimming accident. But I'm still a good person, Mikayla. I think I think for the people listening, I am undeniably a good person to present but I still said 150 years ago, someone would have drowned that kid in the river. And so. So you don't I'm saying, and I don't think there's I don't think you should equivocate about that. I don't think I'm a bad person, because I made an obviously over the top joke to my daughter trying to help her relax in a situation where she was like, Hey, what the hell's going on? You don't I mean, like, she's not texting me, like, hey, there's a loopy kid in here. She's worried about what's going on for herself and, and everything. You know. I don't think that makes me a bad person. If somebody's listening and thinks that makes me a bad person. And there's not much I can do about that. But yeah, like, it's, I know, I am a decent person. And yeah, you are,

Makalay 1:03:30
you're a good person.

Scott Benner 1:03:31
I don't wonder I don't walk around wondering if I am or not like, I never would have mentioned this. It had just not happened this morning. And you and I weren't having this conversation. But do you do things that later you judge?

Makalay 1:03:45
Um, no, I try not to. I try to just kind of like, be who I am. And like, take it as it is. Like, if you like me, that's great. But if you don't, that's okay, too.

Scott Benner 1:03:57
It's so funny. It's interesting, the way you attack the question, because I don't think of this question as something you would apply to how someone else feels about you. Uh huh. Like, I'm trying to get through to you. You're not listening to me. I'm trying to get through to you that I know that what I texted Arden some people would find offensive that they would attach that thought to a bad person. But I don't. I know I'm a good person. So I wouldn't even bother considering it.

Makalay 1:04:27
No, but yes, also because you like show compassion first. Like you're like, Okay, this is what might be going on. Like, I feel bad for him. But then it's like, but it's gonna be okay. So it's fine to just throw a joke in there.

Scott Benner 1:04:37
Yeah, I didn't just feel bad for him. I was giving like real like, hey, is this happening? Is this happening? Like somebody should be doing this like, meanwhile, my daughter's probably like, I don't want to be involved in this. It's my second day of college. I have my own stress, you know? Yeah. But still, there was some levity needed, and was that much levity needed? I don't know what to tell you. That's the joke my brain came up with. So I'm going Okay, but I'm saying that when I asked you the same a similar question, you're like, Well, you think of it from other people's perspective, but I'm asking from your perspective. You're a good person, right? Yeah. You think off color thing sometimes? Yeah,

Makalay 1:05:15
I think everybody does. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:05:17
I hope they do. Yeah, I really do. I genuinely hope they do. I think it's interesting, because you've grown up right through. I think happened Mikayla, like, the eye. For five seconds, the idea of being woke was this nice thing, where people were like, I'm gonna think about the bigger picture and how my actions impact others. And in five seconds, it turned into Kancil culture, and just crazy things where everyone's broken down. Like, we ran out of people to judge in the moment, and we started judging people posthumously. Back, do you mean, like, we went back 300 years, and we're like, Hey, this guy. Can you believe what he did? And I'm like, Well, I mean, 300 years ago, that was probably like, a, like, a Tuesday. You don't I mean, like, like, we're all growing as people. And now we're trying to judge people going backwards, and your generation got caught right in the middle of that. And I'm wondering if that hits you at all? Do you ever think I can't say this out loud? Not because I disagree with it, or because I even think my friends will disagree with it. But because if it gets out into mainstream culture that I said this, that I could, that somebody could come after me for? Do you ever have to have those thoughts?

Makalay 1:06:34
I do just because also like, I feel like with social media, and like, even like, technology, like not in person, like anybody can interpret anything differently than how you said it. And like, with there being so many different ways to like saying something someone, like someone might find it funny, but then some of my like, take it and twist it and think it's offensive. So I like think about that a lot. Just because it's like, sometimes if I like think something I'm like, is it even worth saying that because it might get taken the wrong way? So it's like, I don't want to have to deal with like someone saying, like, that was really mean. And then it's like, a whole like, no, that's not how I meant it. Like that type of thing.

Scott Benner 1:07:10
Yeah. You know, the problem is that people have an ability to, to reach you at this point, not you, but people like because of electronic electronic communication. Because before you could have been in the lunchroom when you were eight and said something and the girl down the the end of the table heard it and thought they didn't like what you said. And they'd have no ability to tell anybody about that. Maybe a couple of people that their friends, but then it would die like that. Right? Like, again, the telephone can't work that well. But it but digitally, it feels like because the person reaches you that their that their thoughts are more important than they actually are. I don't know if that makes sense or not. But

Makalay 1:07:49
it does. Yeah, it's just

Scott Benner 1:07:52
it's not real. Is my is my point is it's cool. It's cool that people think, what they think and not everybody has to agree with each other. But if somebody doesn't agree with you, and moreover finds what you said offensive or whatever, their interpretation of your speech is not real. It doesn't actually affect you. So I don't know, I just I think it's sad that, that a whole generation of kids actually feel like, Oh, I can't say something or do something or feel something. Because I could get cancelled. But you can't Michela, you can't get canceled. You're not famous. You know what I mean? Yeah, like that. I mean, don't get me wrong if you if you took the last couple minutes of this podcast that come out for I don't know, racism. You don't I mean, like, but in day to day stuff, like, I don't know, I hate that you judge yourself. It makes me sad. Yeah, I

Makalay 1:08:46
mean, I try not to, but sometimes it's like, I feel like with society today, like it's hard not to have that like as your first instinct. Yeah. Trying to

Scott Benner 1:08:56
try to ignore it. I think it's meaningless. I don't even think it's real, to be perfectly honest with you. For sure. Yeah. Because you're not the you know what I mean, you're not not a congressman. You know, you're not a you're not somebody with a public like, facing? I don't know, Mikayla, who cares. So we, nation, you're 22 and I'm 50. done talking about this, but I don't know. I just thought you're such a sweet person. I just want you to go be yourself. I think you're you're an asset to humanity. Thank you. That's so nice. I mean, except for the fact that you might just bang your head. That part. Yeah, like that sucks. Hey, do you ever think of wearing like, like, what am I want to say?

Makalay 1:09:38
Are you gonna say helmet? No. Oh, I've heard that. So many times. What have people said that to you? Yeah. Like, okay, they're kidding. But then it's like, sometimes I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna just like say that they're kidding, because I don't want to believe that they're serious. And whatever happens happens, it's fine. I've recovered from six concussions. So if I get a seven year old that'll suck. But

Scott Benner 1:10:01
no, I was just what I was gonna bring up is that my son grew up around this kid who just had a bunch of concussions, they were all sports related. And, you know, and silly things like, you know, one time it was football and one time it was he got hit with a, like somebody passed a basketball like across the court, not to him, and it hit him in the head. And so by the time he had three or four concussions, they made him stop playing sports. But they can't make you stop walking around. Like that was the disconnect that I was trying to understand like yours is like, your body just goes over the way it goes over. So if you've if you've hit your head that many times it stands to reason that if it happens again, you're going to do it again. So I don't I don't know. Is there any conversation about how to deal with that? Because I can't for the life of me over the last hour, think of anything that would be helpful.

Makalay 1:10:51
I'm not really it's just like, a disc. Hope is not going to happen again. Because like, again, like I tried to not think about all the time like I could have a seizure right now. So I tried to not think about like, Okay, I can't hit my head, even though like they're not directly correlated, because I've gotten concussions, like not from seizures, like I got a concussion in. I think it was like September of 2020 walking up the stairs in my like, apartment at school, doing laundry like the this like piece of wood underneath the stairs was like too low and I was on my phone and I just like ran right into it. So I'm like, I have to start doing dumb things like that. But I don't know, I tried to just be careful when the best I can. But I'm like, I'm not gonna let it like stop me from doing what I want to do.

Scott Benner 1:11:36
Yeah, you should just slide in feet first. Mikayla. Yeah. Well, the one last thing I didn't ask you about the seizures that I'm interested in is there's no diagnosis for structurally what's happening.

Makalay 1:11:52
Like with like, can

Scott Benner 1:11:54
they say hey, there's a I don't know like I don't know anything about seizures but did they have they scanned your brain have they been able to say I see what's happening here or

Makalay 1:12:03
so they every time I've had a seizure I usually get like admitted to the hospital after and then I get an EEG which is like they can be like various amounts of time like some people can have them done like in the office for like 40 minutes but mine are usually 72 hours and it's like little like I guess like leads all over your head with like this like really strong glue and then they wrap it up. And it's just like monitoring your brain activity. So they like try to do those to see like, after the seizure and like they're usually normal after the seizure which is the weirdest thing so they're like okay, probably was like sleep deprivation you hide your seizure. You slept it off, now you're back. But it's like, I don't know with with the medication, my brain activity is completely normal. But when I have the seizures, it's usually sleep deprivation. Um, I've worked with the other ones like the one on Christmas like I was a little bit sick. I was tired and they say excitement. But like again like I'm pretty happy person I get excited a lot. So I'm like, I don't I don't think that's right for me. I don't think that's yeah, they did like it not even like flashing lights or anything like that. It just is like kind of random.

Scott Benner 1:13:18
It's amazing. can sleep deprivation trigger a seizure? Yes, it can. seizures are very sensitive to sleep patterns. Some people have their first and only seizures after an all nighter at college or not sleeping well for long periods. Wow, this is there any side effects of the medication Are you very happy with it?

Makalay 1:13:35
I'm really happy with it. The for I there was one that I was on and it's like not a febrile favorable medication but that was the one that I had to be on like right away because I could start taking like a high dose of it while I worked up on the other one. But I slowly like worked up to like a good level on the one medication that was the good one and then slowly backed off the other one. So during that time, it definitely was like okay, this this is a little scary because I'm like going off one medication. But since then just being on the one has been like really great. And it's like I think they say like the best seizure medication there is because there are like minimal side effects.

Scott Benner 1:14:18
Wow, it's amazing. Well, I'm glad they found something that helps you it's it's really astonishing. Hey, how are your blood sugar's like, what's your agency? What are your goals for your blood sugar's

Makalay 1:14:27
my agencies are usually between six and six five. Nice. Nice, so I tried to keep it pretty tight.

Scott Benner 1:14:34
what's your what's your high alarm, low alarm setup?

Makalay 1:14:38
AD and one Ed, when

Scott Benner 1:14:41
do you let the algorithm do most of the work or do you intervene?

Makalay 1:14:45
I intervene sometimes. I try if I'm like just going over I try to do like, if I'm like, the arrow is like slightly up or like I'm not too high out of range. I let the pump take care of it. But if I noticed like okay, I ate something an hour ago and I didn't think I needed insulin for it now or then and now I'm spiking then I'll give myself insulin and add the correction and be like, Why did I do that? But I sometimes I get so controlling because I'm like, so like, I need my blood sugar's to be perfect. So I get so controlling, like, do it over the pump. I'd say it's like 5050 Like, especially while I'm sleeping like I sleep through the night I just let my pump do everything.

Scott Benner 1:15:25
Yeah. Well, listen, we did your settings change greatly when you got to college? Or were you not using control IQ before college?

Makalay 1:15:35
I wasn't using it before college.

Scott Benner 1:15:38
Did you commute? Or did you? Did you stay there? You said your high school. I stayed. Alright. Excellent. Did your settings change much when you got to college? Um, do you remember?

Makalay 1:15:52
Remember? No, I don't think so. The only thing that changed was like, like the times of my, my profile, like, when I was like eating lunch at school, like it was like, the same time like 12. But then, when I was like, had tendencies to eat at different times at college, then it was like changing my, like the same ratios. Just different time settings.

Scott Benner 1:16:17
Okay, I see. How about leaving school? Did your stress lesson and your insulin change or anything like that?

Makalay 1:16:25
Um, my stress definitely lessened, but I've been like, pretty consistent with my like, profile. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:16:34
Interesting. All right. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have?

Makalay 1:16:38
Um, I don't think so.

Scott Benner 1:16:41
You think we did. Okay. Yeah. All right. Cool. Well, then I'm gonna say thank you.

Makalay 1:16:47
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Scott Benner 1:16:49
It's my pleasure. Hold on one second.

A huge thanks to Mikayla for coming on the show and sharing her story. I also want to thank athletic greens and remind you to get your ag one at athletic greens.com forward slash juicebox. Want to save 35% off your entire order at cozy earth.com. use the offer code juice box at checkout. And do not forget my favorite type one organization touched by type one they're on Facebook, they're on Instagram. They're touched by type one.org. Go find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes doesn't matter if you have type one, type two, Lada any kind of diabetes. All are welcome. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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#910 Best of Juicebox: Emotions at Diagnosis & Diabetes Distress

Originally posted on Nov 16, 2020. Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout, emotions surrounding diagnosis, and dealing with diabetes distress and constructive ways to prevent it from impairing one’s function.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 910 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today we're going to revisit episode 407 with the best of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode is from November 16 2020. And it was titled emotions at diagnosis and diabetes distress. This episode is myself and Erica Forsyth. Of course, Erica is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and she has had type one diabetes for over 30 years, you can check her out at Erica forsythe.com. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. If you head to cozy earth.com You will save 35% off your entire order with the offer code juice box at checkout one word juice box at checkout at cozy earth.com to get 35% off everything they have joggers, sheets, towels, pajamas, they've got so much great stuff. Check them out cozy earth.com Use juice box at checkout to save 35%.

The podcast is sponsored today by better help better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues better help.com forward slash juicebox. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy. That way BetterHelp can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. You can message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Talk to them however you feel comfortable text chat phone or video call. If your therapist isn't the right fit for any reason at all. You can switch to a new therapist at no additional charge. And the best part for me is that with better help you get the same professionalism and quality you expect from in office therapy. But with a therapist who is custom picked for you, and you're gonna get more scheduling flexibility, and a more affordable price betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox that's better help h e l p.com. Forward slash juicebox save 10% On your first month of therapy.

Hello, everyone and welcome to episode 407 of the Juicebox Podcast. On today's show, Erica Forsyte this year she has a master's in social work, and she specializes in diabetes. She's going to tell you more about in a second. But for right now please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise. Please Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:33
Hi, my name is Erica Forsythe. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and type one for over 30 years.

Scott Benner 3:42
Okay, so I'm already that quickly. My I don't think I have ADHD but when you said that I was like oh, we should just talk about being married. That would be anything. I find out why is it so hard to be married? And why do people argue about oh, but nevermind that's not what we're gonna do.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox this episode is also sponsored by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and you can get a free no obligation demo of the on the pod sent directly to you today by going to my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box try it on where it and see what you think before you commit. Don't forget to check out touched by type one there at touched by type one.org It is my absolute favorite diabetes organization. Check them out. They're also on Instagram and Facebook. poached by type one.org When were you diagnosed?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:04
I was diagnosed at age 12. In the summer at summer camp,

Scott Benner 5:09
summer camp, not the best memory or not a bad memory.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:13
Um, it was a pretty traumatic memory and diagnosis story then everyone has their own diagnosis story. It was over kind of a span of a couple months. It was a three week long summer camp, and I was diagnosed the night, the last night of the three week summer camp.

Scott Benner 5:32
Oh, and then they shipped you home lifeless.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:35
They, I don't remember this, but they put me I was in sixth grade. They put me in a ambulance and I was on my way to diabetic coma. ketoacidosis. And so then my parents met me at the ER at some point that night. I know it's all kind of a blur. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:52
So you were there for three weeks? Do you think it's just happening to you the entirety of those three weeks?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:58
You know, I think they I was played in a volleyball camp in the beginning of the summer. And you know, to do that I had to have a you know, check in a physical and also before going away for the summer camp. And definitely, I was experiencing symptoms, but like many families we did not know, to look for, you know, frequent thirst, frequent urination and extreme weight loss. They just thought I was growing and it was hot. And I was playing lots of volleyball. And then I went off to summer camp. And you know, there was a flu going through the camp and I fainted. So they thought it was that they thought it maybe was I was going through puberty. You know, definitely was experiencing extreme fatigue, which was really abnormal, because I was an athlete. So you know, when you're not really looking for type one, the symptoms aren't as obvious. But then when you look back, and you can check off, you know, all of those symptoms like oh, my gosh, we should have known.

Scott Benner 7:03
Yeah, I mean, I guess especially when you're under the care of corny 18 year old camp counselors to their probably just like she's got the flow. Get her in a bed?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:11
Oh, yes, yes. And you know, it was interesting. Finally, it was the last day of camp and is in most camps, you know, everyone that they care, they're getting ready for the banquet. And so all the girls are running around in a room or cabin, and I'm kind of going in and out of consciousness. They're, they're good, they're pumping or getting dressed or getting their makeup on. And I guess Finally, my symptoms were made known to a male camp counselor who happened to have type one. And so I remember him coming into our room, which was, you know, a male, and the girls cabin was was, like, you know, scary or just not normal. And he took my blood sugar, and I read high and at the time, that was like, I think over 600. And so I think it was really kind of a saving grace that he heard my symptoms. He was there. He knew to take my blood sugar. And you know, the rest is history. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 8:05
that is lucky, honestly, for you. All right. Well, I've never been to camp but you just made it sound not very good.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:14
Oh, I love the camp, you know. And I went, it took me a couple years, but I went back in high school to kind of redeem my experience, because it was a special. It's a special place. That's cool.

Scott Benner 8:23
That's good. Yeah. Well, okay, so how long ago was this?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:27
This was 30 years ago.

Scott Benner 8:29
Wow. All right. I'm gonna do some quick math and say that was 1990.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:34
That was that was the summer of 1990. That was good math.

Scott Benner 8:38
Thank you. I'm very impressed that my ability to subtract three to subtract three from two. No, it's a negative one and knock 10 years off the 2000. The way I came up with, it really is brilliant. I don't want to bore anybody with it, but very impressed with what I learned in seventh grade and was able to retain Okay, so you're on the show today. You were you were actually suggested to me by someone else. Am I right about that? Yes. Yeah. So tell me what you do professionally.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:10
Professionally, I am as I said it in a marriage and family therapist, but I specialize in working with people with diabetes in their families, their caregivers, as we know it, you know, it takes a village and it affects not only the person with diabetes, but everyone around him or her and so I I love my job and I love that I get to walk alongside people, you know, from newly diagnosed to you know, people living with it for 1015 2030 plus years who are maybe experiencing some, you know, distress or burnout or other issues that may or may not be really related to diabetes, but oftentimes, it can go back to that.

Scott Benner 9:59
Why don't we start with by burning out. And I'd love to know. So I'm assuming you see people who've been with diabetes for all length of time. And then how did you think of burnout? Like beyond, you know, just the word that gets kind of thrown around and in, you know, in social circles online, like what, what is burnout to you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:19
Yeah, so I, I think a lot of people really work on clarifying that diabetes, distress leads to burnout. And I think, you know, if you're experiencing distress over and maybe it comes and goes, but when you're actually experiencing burnout, people will describe it as you know, hitting a wall or maybe it's you feel like you just don't have the capacity to take care of yourself, manage your, your diabetes, maybe you want to skip a dose, maybe you just want to eat whatever and not think about, you know, carb counting or or think about, what where's my blood sugar now, what am I doing and all the things that we have to think about when we're about to do something or eat something or exercise. And so burnout is, I just want to think about it, I'm, I'm done, I want to take a break, and you might you probably not even doing that consciously. And I think, you know, burnout can be become very risky and scary when you're experiencing that over a prolonged period of time.

Scott Benner 11:27
Well, so you're saying that there's, like stressors that lead to the give up, like the hand throwing up, or even the subconscious hand throwing up of just like, I'm gonna get a bag of potato chips and sit on the sofa. Now, and this is the extent of my nutrition, like, I've just given up on everything, for reasons that can be external, and unseen. Is that possible, like so the way I to give you a little look into my head, that one of the reasons I make this podcast is because that I think that managing type one, diabetes is arduous, and that if you're mired down constantly in the math, and the worry, and things are always going wrong, and your meal spike, and you're high all the time, and you don't know why and then you drop low, and you're, you're concerned about being low, and then you over treat, you bounce up, this is an untenable way to live. And so I'm a big proponent of learning quickly how to manage the insulin so that you don't sort of start this journey of, of wherever, you know, it leads to that ends up with many people just being like, I can't do this, or this thing beats me all the time, or it's unknowable, or whatever, it ends up feeling like the different people. So it can be simple, right? Like, it could be like, one day, I just don't feel like giving myself a shot. And the next day, I don't know how many carbs are in this, and then it gets high. And I'll just leave it high and see if it comes down. And then these things build and build and build on themselves. Is that true?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:59
Yes, I would say that, that is an accurate description, in addition to maybe other external kind of stressors or you know, feeling like you're, you're powerless. Or maybe you have a constant fear of, of having hypoglycemia, or you're really, you know, particularly in the teenage years, this is can be quite normal of feeling like you want to hide your diabetes from other people. or feeling like your doctor just doesn't understand what it's like. So these are, that those are maybe at play. And that addition to you know what, I just don't want to, I don't want to have to think about my blood sugar. And I want to eat five donuts this morning. And that can all snowball. Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 13:45
And then before you know it, you're so mired down in it that you don't know how you got there. And there's no way to know how to get out anymore.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:53
Right? And, and kind of, you know, when you're sick all the time, you kind of just get used to feeling sick, and then maybe one day, you're not sick, you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know how good that feels to not be sick. I think you can become kind of used to maybe not feeling well, because of your sugar's are so high and then emotionally and mentally you're you're down and out. And you that just becomes your new normal, right. Your pain, pain, the knots, you know where I want to enter it? Yes,

Scott Benner 14:22
pain, pain starts that way. It's I had a motorcycle accident. I was like, 20. I don't have any, like health insurance. So when I was lucky enough to stand up, they were like, you're going to the hospital and I was like, I don't have insurance. You're not taking me to the hospital. I'm poor. I know where that leads to. So I just went home and my shoulder healed naturally, which obviously, in hindsight, wasn't a great decision. And over the next, you know, 20 years, it actually worked fine. But it turned out that you know, the weird healing process besides the lump that's on my shoulder that you can feel that doesn't belong there. It turned out that there was You know a calcification, they kept building and building and building a one day impinged a. My, my gosh, it's such a simple concept. Everybody gets their shoulder repaired that thing in their shoulder is called anybody, their rotator. Thank you, Erica impinged the rotator cuff, and it just snapped. Right but it happened super slowly and it hurt a little you got used to it hurt a little more you got used to it couldn't lift your arm up as high you got used to it. It's amazing how adaptive we can be, you know, and then I'll never forget the biggest relief I had in four years because it took 20 years for me to start noticing the problem and for years for it to explode. But I was trying to have a catch with my son one day thinking I was pushing through this, you know, stiffness as well how I imagined it my addled mind, you know. And then suddenly, I said to him, like, oh my god, I worked through it, it's, it feels great. And for the next 20 minutes, it was perfect, until I realized that my rotator cuff, it's the tendonitis. Right, and just the snapping of it alleviated my pain for a while until a new pain showed up. I think that's exactly what you're talking about is that it? You know, you start off with a you know, not having diabetes, your blood sugar's in the 80s all the time, then suddenly, it's not anymore. Now, you know, you're in the 90s the hundreds you're honeymooning, and then suddenly, it's 120 and 130. And when 15 Before you know it, you feel completely normal at 200. And you're not, you just don't realize it. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:31
yes, no, that's, that's a great analogy. And I'm sorry, that happened

Scott Benner 16:35
that please, what am I gonna do? You know, the day I figured it out, I couldn't hold a water bottle in my right hand, oh my god, like, I'm gonna move this to my left hand and call a doctor. But, please, smart move would have been when I was 20 years old, going a little bit in debt and having my shoulder. But I was really broke back then Eric, and anything over $45 seemed like a million. So I Oh, yes. Luck, you know. But But so what are people? Given that you don't see it happening to you? I mean, that's why my argument is, you know, just stop it from happening, you know, and but you know, shy of that being able to be your reality. So you don't find a podcast that helps you manage your insulin? How do I like, what are my signs if I because I'm assuming I'm, I'm hoping that a loved one sees this. Right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:28
Right. Yes. I mean, I know, you know, I speak a lot from you know, the, the person who's living with diabetes can experience the, you know, distress and burnout. But obviously, the caregiver, like yourself can too, because it's, it's constant. I think some of you know, the, the obvious signs would be, you know, not doing some of the things that you used to do, like, for example, maybe your check, it used to check frequently, and then now it's becoming less frequent. Or you're just maybe looking for signs that something might not be something is bothering you that you might not be feeling as, as hopeful in, in life in general, but also with, with your diabetes care, you might be experiencing, you know, this is what a lot of younger, my younger clients will talk about, or experience, just the guilt and shame around the number. Because there is such a hyper focus on the numbers. You know, when I was first diagnosed, I went to a large Children's Hospital, and whenever I, they would take your a one C, right there, it would just like from a finger stick, and then it would it would compute, and then they would apply your a one C to a letter grade. Oh, so this is this is in the night, you know, the 90s, early 90s. And so if you were in the right zone, it was an A, if you were you know, eight to 10, you are a B or in higher. I mean, there were times where I remember I had like a D. And so talk about, you know, they're trying to encourage you to have a better grade. But that certainly started the turn of the course for me and having some shame based thinking around my numbers. And I hear a lot of clients talk about you know, I don't want to check because I know it's gonna be 350 So of course you don't then you you're connecting that number to who you are as a person, how you're doing with your diabetes management. And so of course you don't want to check it. Or look at your CGM.

Scott Benner 19:36
I'm fixing metal spirals who the moron is that thought that that was would have been the way to go you know, you don't will do will grade them and the people are doing poorly will give them really bad grades that should motivate them. i Who thinks that way but not like at least they could have rated you on like the popularity of Nirvana songs like you know, like if you you had like an 85 You were like teen spirit but You know, if you were more like 120, you were paying royalty, and you know, like, somewhere in there, like, why not? Oh my God, that's really terrible. Like how have we come so far in 30 years, the way we think about things,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:13
and, you know, I am grateful, you know, I don't hold anything against them. But I think that's where we were, you know, kind of fear fear based, you know, if you don't check your blood sugar, if you have a D on your agency, you're going to experience all these complications. And so I love like a lot of doctors and psychologists are trying to really focus on like, Let's do evidence based hope and motivate people based on these the other numbers of if you keep yourself in, you know, good range, or you exemplify or show these kinds of behaviors, you are going to live longer with, you know, and I can't pull the numbers out right now, but have a higher chance of not having any complications, as opposed to well, if you don't, you are going to have complications, right?

Scott Benner 21:00
Is it possible that aspirational talk doesn't work on people whose blood sugars are elevated all the time? Or have incredible stress about, like getting low? Or something like that? Is it is it feel like a bridge too far to even hope?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:13
I think that's where you want to get that get them to, but obviously, in the beginning, you might need to start smaller. For example, let's focus on you know, the behaviors the process instead of the outcome. And if you're a parent working with a child or a teenager, you know, they catch them being good, you're praising the behavior of Oh, my gosh, you know, thank you for checking your blood sugar, and not asking what the number is, you know, thank you for you know, bolusing. I know you. And I really liked all your protests about the Pre-Bolus. And the timing of the Bolus is so crucial. And so praising them for or helping them around that piece, as opposed to what is your number now before we eat, what's your in the dish, the hyper focus on the numbers has to shift if you're trying to help somebody move away from that shame based thinking around your number and your agency, because that's where a lot because that's where you do need to focus on but at the same time, you need to take that piece away to help elevate a person's mood or distress.

Scott Benner 22:25
I don't think about the numbers at all anymore. I think about an atlas and my daughter has a Dexcom CGM. So I'm lucky to be able to see a graph, right, but I just think about, like stability and maintaining the stability. To me, the rest of it doesn't matter. carbs, you know, try to force the line up insulin tries to stop that. It's, it's kind of, I really, I simplify it in my head, just you know, you know, you see a blood sugar that's darting up, you stop it, just stop it, you know, and once it stopped, if you if you've over addressed it, then, you know, fix that without it. Going back up again. And learn from your next mistake, I think, you know, if you've overcorrected? Don't spend a lot of time hand wringing and saying to yourself, like, Oh, I've messed it up again, like, you know, like, just looking okay, well, look, this time I tried one one was too much, I'm going to try three quarters next time, I don't know, whatever, you know. And then you'll learn and build and learn and build. And before you know it, I just, I just saw a note today, in the I have a private Facebook group for this podcast, and a woman said, I came in, I was really desirous to just have success right away. And I almost just went right to the protests, she's like, but instead I just went back to the beginning of the podcast, and I started listening over, she said, she was like, 40 episodes in. And she's already has an incredible improvement in health, and her ability to manage blood sugar's and I said this to somebody privately the other day, I said, I know that the podcast has 400 episodes at this point. But the truth is, in my opinion, you go back and listen to this podcast straight through, you're gonna have a one C and the low sexist, and it's not going to be tough to get to. And that's because there are so many little things about diabetes, that if you expect someone to sit in a doctor's office, or in a, you know, or, and tell you about, it's not how it's going to happen. Like you have to hear it kind of slowly, you have to hear it as a building narrative. It takes a little time to take in the information. And after that, you know, you're on your way, like so I like that you don't blame your doctors, but I'm gonna blame them for you a little bit. You don't have to. We don't teach people how to manage their insulin. We just tell them they have diabetes, and that carbs makes their blood sugar go up and insulin makes their blood sugar go down. And then we're like good luck, and then they send them on their way. And then these little things that you're talking about I naturally pop up in life. And by the way, you don't just have diabetes, you also have a job or you go to school, you might be in a marriage that you're not happy with, you might be in a marriage you're really happy with, but there's a hole in your roof that you can't afford to fix, or any number of other obvious life things happen. While you're trying to figure this thing out, I've said over and over and over again, that I was able to come to these ideas, partially because I was a stay at home dad, and I didn't have to get up and go to work every day. You know, I too many people are in that situation where it's basically they throw a patch on their diabetes and hope it holds till the next time they're able to look at it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:37
Right? Yeah, I mean, there's just, it is a it is as they say, you know, the full time job that doesn't take a break. And, uh, you referenced that a lot. And I think it's upon all the other layers of life. It's exhausting. And I think one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself as a person with diabetes or a caregiver is to be kind, you know, use it don't don't wring your hands, let let the numbers be data for information for decision making in the future, but not a data point to say, Gosh, I really was terrible. I can't believe I didn't give myself enough insulin or GnuCash. Now I'm doing the diabetes roller coaster where I I was high, and I overcorrected. And I'm low cost sheet and then you get in your headspace app. So you know what I made a mistake. And that's okay. And I'm going to learn from this and move forward. As opposed to just ruminating in the number and the behavior that got you to that number.

Scott Benner 26:34
And I think Additionally, you have to have the foresight to realize that you can't make a mistake. If you don't know what you're doing. You don't mean like that's, that's an interesting concept, because you feels like you made a mistake. But if no one taught you, are you making a mistake? Like, you're gonna be like, how can I make a mistake about something I have no knowledge of whatsoever, the mistake is made in the entirety of how we do this, of how, from the moment you're diagnosed, until the moment someone lets you go, they tell you a lot of really important stuff. And not, I mean, you brought it up a second ago, and we kind of always just like, skip over it, but I have contact with a lot of people. The idea of Pre-Bolus thing, which is honestly the idea of understanding how insulin works, is not mentioned to most people when they leave with it's just, it's fat. It'd be like tell it would be like if I gave you a driver's license, it didn't tell you gas was flammable. You know, FYI, you know, right, right. You just got to the gas station, like it's leaking all over the place. No big deal. No one mentioned to me this was a problem. Like it just you need to understand how certain things work, so that you can be thoughtful about using them? Uh huh. I don't I see you're making me upset.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:52
We know I thankfully, there has been such a huge shift in trend with, you know, the American diabetes Association has partnered with the American Psychological Association, APA, the APA, to recognize that there needs to be this focus on psychosocial care for people with diabetes, because the education piece that you are, you know, that you have done such a great job in broadcasting through your podcast is so crucial, combined with the psychosocial piece. And so I am grateful that there's been a big shift and care for not only endocrinologist, but psychologists focusing in on that the emotional piece of what it's like that, you know, it's it's exhausting is the understatement,

Scott Benner 28:41
right? It just it's, it's the tools, you have to have the right tools, where you can't you just can't You can't build your box if you don't have a hammer. And that's that. And it's not, it's not that much more difficult. And like you're saying the other side of it is, is that while you feel like you're constantly failing, and failing and failing, and you're not just failing, but your health is deteriorating, and you're starting to feel worse, and worse yet, you don't notice it after a while. All these things are just, you know, they feel insurmountable. And I think possibly, then I'm not just saying this, because you're here, the only way most people are going to be able to climb out of this hole is with third party help somebody who can break it down for them and show it to them piece by piece, and then give them direction about how to how to manage

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:30
it. Well. Yes, I mean, I think there is you do first to be you know, aware of the signs and symptoms and actually, as I was preparing to come speak with you today, I found this website, it's called diabetes distressed.org. And then you can actually take a survey to kind of assess your degree of distress and it highlights you know, don't worry if your numbers are higher, you know, join to really prevent It's no, there's no shame around having distress. But to first like, let's just try and go be aware of where you are in your level of distress and then it gives you some options of what what do you need? You need to talk with your healthcare provider? Do you need to seek additional help with a mental health provider? Do you need to become more clear with your family of what you need? Do you need help and problem solving? Or do you need just more validation from your family? Or your partner who whoever's you know, in your, your immediate family support system? I think understanding where you are is the first step and then kind of figuring out how can you help yourself through that process and being kind and compassionate to yourself is also really key.

Scott Benner 30:49
I think we should be deputizing sharpest diabetes Sherpas, I've just come up with this idea while you're talking. Because, because you just said stuff that I could imagine a new blockade for every time we'll go to your doctor, what if my doctor sucks? You know, what if my doctor thinks a 7.8, a one sees great, like the and I don't think that or you know, and it's easy to to say to somebody, like don't just see the number. But, but everybody's not great in a panic situation. You don't mean like, there's there's certain people who, you know, there could be bombs going off around them, and they can stay focused on what they're doing. And there are certain people who hear the bombs and very reasonably jump on the ground and cover their head. So when, when ever when you can't count on everybody being so resilient in that moment, you know, like, they need somebody to take their hand and go, Hey, look, you're in over your head, no big deal. Like it's that old story, right? Like guys down in the hole. His buddy walks by yells up, Hey, Bill, can you give me a hand, I'm stuck down in this hole, and Bill jumps down in the hole with them. And the guy goes, What are you doing? Like now we're both stuck down here and bogus. Now don't worry, I've been down here before I know the way out. Like you need somebody who who can lead you out. And, and I think that there's too many, there are too many variables. And, and you're also counting on people to recognize which bucket they fit in. And then they have to go to the right person, like you just need somebody to stop, listen to your story and say, Okay, here's what you need my opinion. I'm going to try to get you to it. And let me see if I can't lead you forward. If you've just given me a job for after the time when the podcast is over, I'm going to start diabetes chirping. And I think this is I think this is it, because you don't need any special skills. Just to know the path somebody else doesn't know and, and is too confused to find their way on at the at the moment in their life that they find themselves in that situation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:53
Right. I mean, yes, oftentimes, yes, someone coming alongside them, helping them through the process and just validation that, you know, I understand that you are in such a challenging and difficult spot and also feeling like they're not alone. I think that's, you know, with, particularly with type one, it's, you can feel very isolated, that no one really understands the challenges, the nuances, the you know, every thought, every minute, you there's a different thought probably about it about your diabetes management. I agree. And that can feel so isolating. And so I think reaching out for help just for that, to know that you're not alone is also a really crucial step.

Scott Benner 33:44
Yeah. No, I agree. Having some sort of community. I have to be honest, that I've been shocked over the last number of years when people write to me privately to tell me that this podcast is their community. And even though they don't have a back and forth, it's not a it's not a two way conversation. It's still everything they needed, was just knowing someone else existed in being able to listen to them.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:05
Yes, and not feeling like they're alone in the process. And I think that's, that's, you know, one of the benefits of technology and your and your podcast and all the many resources that you can access online.

Scott Benner 34:20
Yeah, no kidding. Okay, so Eric is so so somebody can come to this burnout phase, show up, find a therapist that understands diabetes, and hopefully find their way through it. Will the therapist help them with management to or No,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:34
no, and that's, that's a great clarification. You know, even though I have type one, you know, and sometimes you're like, I'm an expert, not always with my own management. I'm not the expert of everyone else's own personnel management. And so I oftentimes will consult and collaborate with their health provider with their doctor with their end with their see Do E, and but I would not make decisions or suggestions around their insulin management or carb ratios. I would come alongside them and help them maybe figure out a behavior plan with either the caregiver or depending on the age of the person with diabetes, and help support them in that way and kind of finding what what are the roadblocks to implementing that behavior plan. And also, just as we already talked about just kind of the validation of, of the challenges of living with diabetes.

Scott Benner 35:38
You've never you've never leaned over the table seen the graph and been like you consider just up in your meal ratio a little bit?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:46
No, that would definitely be out of my scope of competence and practice. So yes, that would not be appropriate.

Scott Benner 35:54
Well, good luck as you your principal person, you Erica. So So let's let this is something I'd like to dig into this next thing that I'm constantly enamored by, which is I believe that when you're diagnosed with an illness, that is not the it's not curable, that you go through the processes of grief. Am I right about that? G voc hypo pan has no visible needle, and it's the first premixed autoinjector of glucagon for very low blood sugar and adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is G voc hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulin Noma or pheochromocytoma. Visit je Vogue glucagon.com/risk. Are you ready to ditch the daily injections or send your pump packing? If you are, it's time to try Omni pod, the tubeless wireless continuous insulin management system. Here's all you have to do. Go to my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box scroll down a little bit and decide do you want to check your eligibility for a free trial or check your insurance coverage to see if you're covered. Maybe you're already sold and you just want an on the pod just click on my coverage, I want to check my coverage, then fill out a tiny bit of information and you're on your way. Now if you're just looking for the free, no obligation trial to be sent to you check my eligibility for a free trial, fill out your information. And that Omni pod will show up right at your house so you can give it a whirl. It's just a demo pod Don't worry, you put it on your where you see what's up. And the questions are super easy. You know, my name my date of birth? Do I have type one or type two or another type of diabetes? And how do I currently manage it's very simple only takes a moment to get that free, no obligation demo or to get started with the Omni pod at my Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox you want to learn more about touched by type one check them out on Facebook or Instagram or at touched by type one.org So wonderful organization helping people living with type one diabetes touched by type one.org My Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox G voc glucagon.com forward slash juice box support the sponsors support the show

you go through the processes of grief. Am I right about that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:46
Absolutely. And I I probably see the majority of my clients and families are mostly the newly diagnosed who are dealing kind of with the shock with the grief kind of the the exploration of what what does this really mean for our family? It is it's a you know it's a community that you don't really want to be a member of but you're trying to figure out what how is this going to affect our daily lives and you know, some people like for my in my family for instance I actually also have a younger brother with type one. Coincidentally which and I have an older sister who does not and no one else in my family had we have no history of type one diabetes. So I had kind of that built in community with my brother which was unique, but a lot of family so you know we're gonna we're gonna fight through this. We're not going to let this affect us at all. You can do all the things you want to do. We both played volleyball he actually was this is my little brag spot. He was an Olympic gold medalist playing volleyball in Beijing. And so I just like to say that that you can do Do whatever you want to accomplish to a set, you know, within the means of you managing it. So, there are some families on that kind of end of the spectrum. And then there are other families who are really struggle and i It's understandable who, you know, how do we, how do I let my child go to school? And how do I trust other people to manage this, this is you know, thinking from a younger, aged person with diabetes, to a teenager who wants to go out or wants to drive. And now is kind of Tet tasked with well, you have to have your blood sugar in a certain range before you get to go out with your friends or drive your car. So it is such a huge shifts, and obviously different with different layers and different complications based on the age. Yeah, but to answer your original question, yes, there is a huge sense of grief and loss around and sometimes it's just ambiguous loss. Like we don't we're not really sure what we're all at all that we don't you don't really know, you know, everything. Sure, initially. And so there's this sense of like, ambiguous loss and grief. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:14
Is denial always first? Or not necessarily, I guess the the stage. By the way. I've also heard from some psychologists who say that they don't call it the Stages of Grief anymore. Like there's other ways to think about it. There's some thought processes were there are seven stages, five stages, two stages. So keeping in mind, there are different ways to think about it. But I can tell you like right off the bat, I know that I, I personally experienced denial, and it popped up around a honeymooning situation, yes, right. As soon as you didn't need insulin as much, or, you know, there was this, this may be 24 hours where my daughter just didn't seem to need insulin at all. I'm sure she still did. But I was such a neophyte at the time, less seemed like none. And I got I got caught up in it to the point where I called my friend who's my my kids, pediatrician, and I was I was coherent enough to say to him, I actually said, Hey, I'm going to say something, after I say, tell me I'm wrong and hang up the phone. You know, I said, But you know, most people can't talk to their kids doctors that way. But I happen to happens to be a very good friend of mine. And so I said, I don't think Arden has diabetes, she hasn't used that much insulin. And he said, No, Scott Arden definitely has type one diabetes, this could happen, you know, in the beginning, and he described honeymooning to me back then, but I was in such a state. I didn't even hear what he was saying. I just heard him say, Stop hoping she doesn't have it, you know. And that was pretty early on in the first six months or so. And I wasn't, I wasn't out of my mind enough to just be thinking it all the time. But the minute that something concrete happened that opened up the possibility I ran through that door, right away. Everybody goes through that. Do you think denial?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:07
Oh, I, I would probably say even I can't say you know, give a fact on that. But I would say a lot of people probably would kind of win in your, you're in shock, your denial, you're kind of trying to figure out what is this mean? Then there's this honeymoon period, which can last, you know, different lengths of time for different people. I think along with the denial, a lot of parents and my own included feel guilt, or would rather say Can I Can I have this instead of my children? Or Did I do anything to cause this? And so those are all really challenging feelings and thoughts to have. And so often, instead of kind of either expressing those or feeling those, and moving through them there is there can be that denial. But that's all part of yeah, that the stages of grief and shock and like you said it, the Stages of Grief are not linear. They are cyclical. And so you can experience any of those stages at any point in time.

Scott Benner 44:09
We're all like, Yeah, I'll tell you that. I've seen. I've talked to people who when they get to anger, they go a lot of different ways. It's, you hear like, you know, I don't know how God could let this happen. Like that's, that's one that I that I hear pretty frequently. Some people go take their anger and drag it right into domination. Like we're going to support somebody who's going to cure this, we're going to find some, you know, a doctor who's working on something that you've never heard of before, like that aggregates or I'm going to keep my kids blood sugar at 84 constantly and it's never going to move and they direct. I've seen them direct their anger at that as well. That could be X Last thing, though no.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:01
Oh, for sure. And the anger could also go to the, you know, the burnout. I'm so over this, I'm so angry. I'm I just don't want to think about it. And so I'm going to just ignore it.

Scott Benner 45:17
Okay, so can the anger, like, could jump right to that we're just I'm so mad at this, I'm going to pretend doesn't exist, you could also be driving so hard to make it perfect that you end up burning yourself out through that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:31
Yeah, that is a that is an excellent point. Yeah, you can you can experience burnout from the other, like, I'm gonna just hyper focus on these numbers, I'm going to keep it in this perfect range, you know, from 80 to 120. And keep it like, try to be a, quote, normal person. And that, as we know, is is fairly impossible to do on a 24 hour, you know, 24/7 basis. And so you certainly can burn yourself out, particularly if you're the caregiver in that role. Because then that that often leads to you if you're going to be perfect, that often leads to feelings of guilt and shame. You know, like, how did I let it get to be 121? Yeah. And so it is, it can be a very messy cycle of trying to live in this, if anger is driving that trying to live in this perfect range. And that's where I would encourage, you know, the self compassion piece to come in.

Scott Benner 46:26
So do you. Can you, I should have said, can you explain the bargaining step to me? Because it's, that's the one that doesn't make sense with how my brain works. Like, I like I saw it happen. I feel like I feel like bargaining covers, this is my fault, because there are no issues in my family, like, by people, or they're the people who feel like if they would have gotten to a doctor sooner, there could have been something they could have done about it. You know, or it's my fault. I didn't see something like that. Is that all kind of falls under the bargaining portion?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:05
Yes. And I think it's, it can happen fairly. It's common, particularly, you know, with parents, like I said, you know, bargaining, like, why can I have this instead of my child? And I think it happens, because we often really don't know, the initial trigger, right to your pancreas not working the way it's supposed to. I think if we had a clear, you know, trigger, and a clear explanation as to why the bargaining and the the either the guilt wouldn't happen as much, I'm sure it would happen to certain degree because you still don't want your child living with a chronic illness. But that the confusion around the the actual diagnosis of type one diabetes is still very much you know, they are. And so we want it we always want we want to know why, like, how did something how why did this happen? How could I have prevented it? Could I have done anything differently? Did I you know, do we use the wrong detergent? I mean, I hear all sorts of things. Maybe it was because that my child broke their arm and their immune system was in shock. Or maybe it was because my child had the flu. You know, we, we want to always figure out the why. And we don't really know why with this.

Scott Benner 48:23
It's funny, I don't care about the why, like, even when I talk about blood sugars with people, I tell them, one of the biggest mistakes you make is staring at a high blood sugar wondering how it happened. Like I don't like I don't care how it happened, just use some more insulin and get it down. So the bargaining the bargaining part didn't like, to me bargaining is that it's your brain's last vestige right? To keep it from feeling sad. Right? You're trying to you're trying to stop yourself from getting to the depression part to the, to the grief part. And so you keep trying to figure out a way where this doesn't have to feel sad, and there's no, I don't, there's no way not to feel sad about getting diabetes, like it just it's not a great thing to find out that one part of your body stopped working, it isn't going to start working again. Sucks, you know, but I get why it happens. But I wonder if people listening, can't hear what we're talking about right now. And then go back to any number of other episodes and other people's stories that you hear and realize that all of their stories are just some version of the steps that you feel after something like this happens these stages. Yes, you know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:38
Yes. And and then you know, getting to some people say, you know, the last stage of of grief is acceptance, but as I, you know, want to highlight, you can you can accept the diagnosis for a period of time, but it's okay to go back to periods of feeling sad, you know, I love to tell the story. I I had a stint I worked at the JDRF and so Francisco many, many years ago, and there were a lot of type ones on staff there. And there was one particular woman who had had it for over 50 years in great health. And she, I think it was either once a month or a couple of times a year, she would take I hate diabetes Day, she would take if she would take the day off, she would lay in bed, she would, she would feel all the feelings, she would feel sad, angry, and then move on. And so she kind of had this planned out to be like, you know, what, I'm living with it, I'm living successfully with it, she had a very robust life. But she still had these moments and created these moments for herself to feel sad and angry about it. And that was, that was her way of kind of coping. And that's okay, so even she lived in kind of the most, the majority of her life was a life of acceptance and thriving, but it's okay to come back to feel like cash. You know, we all have different seasons of life. And there are going to be more challenging ones with with your diabetes, particularly, as you're growing and going through different seasons in hormones and different life stages and different stressors. So it's, it's okay, yes, to have those different emotions around it. So just

Scott Benner 51:17
because you got through the, the, the depression and grief state, and you got to acceptance, and you started thinking, hey, you know what, it turns out, I figured out how to use my insulin and this sucks, but it's, you know, you know, everybody's like, who's way better than this other thing that could have happened to me or, you know, whatever. So I'm feeling good about this. Now I'm, I feel like I'm in a little more control of what's going on. And you start sort of just turning the corner, it doesn't mean that you can't remember one day that this sucks, if you don't just get the dislike, it's not the so it's for people's understanding, like the five stages of grief, I think, is like an older idea. There's a seven stages of grief, that, that breaks things down a little differently, and is way more hopeful at the end, where you kind of, you start putting things back together, again, you're working through them, you accept what's going on, and you actually end up feeling very hopeful. And just because you feel hopeful today, doesn't mean that something won't that you know that your pump won't fail, while you're on, you know, a roller coaster at Six Flags, and you won't be like, Oh, this is depressing. It's ruined my whole day like you can you're gonna bounce in and out of these things as you go. And not just the diabetes, by the way, life in general, I don't know if people realize that we're all very basic, like, organisms, right? Like, we just we sort of do the same things over and over again. And when we reapply them to different ideas, somehow we're like, oh, diabetes is sad. Well, everything is sad at some point, you know, like, I get depressed about things like everyone else has, the bigger issue ends up being for people who hit that depression, pothole. And for real, physiological reasons, can't actually get out of it ever. Like everybody gets depressed sometimes, but most people are able to get through it, the people who aren't there now, now they've now found a new another new issue that they need to deal with.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:14
Yes, yes. And I think that's, it's important to note that, you know, when we're talking about diabetes distress, it's, you might experience a certain level of, of distress at certain points throughout your, you know, career with with diabetes, and that's okay. I think the, the important part is to be aware of when you feel like as you just were describing, you know, that when did stress becomes, you can, you can have diabetes, of stress and struggle with the elements of living with diabetes and not be depressed, because maybe you're functioning in other areas of your life or your job, your, your family life, your friendships. If you're an athlete, you know, it's, it can be different. But when it becomes when diabetes distress is prolonged, and you aren't able to either recognize the symptoms or reach out for help, or have community around you, that can you know, it can transition into, you know, a full blown depression diagnosis. And I think that's, that's what we're trying to prevent. Yeah, you know, before it kind of impacts and impairs all of your levels of functioning,

Scott Benner 54:22
are there just some people who are predisposed and eventually they're going to have a turn in their life that is so impactful, that they're going to become depressed, like like that. It's always going to happen.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:36
That's that's a great question. I feel like could be almost another another episode. I feel like Pete I see you're asking like are people are people predisposed to having depressed thoughts or experiencing depression?

Scott Benner 54:51
The same idea with diabetes, like if you have the markers, the genetic markers for type one diabetes, then your likelihood of getting it goes up and So, if this happens, and that happens, and everything just kind of goes wrong for you, boom, you have type one diabetes, there are other people who have those markers, who never end up with type one. And so I'm assuming there are people who have markers for depression that they're unaware of. And then if they have life, circumstances that pushed them in that direction, that they are more likely to get caught in a real depression than other people are, because I've had some fairly terrible things happen to me in my life. But I've never had long bouts of depression. And there are other people who have had things happen to them that you know, are equal to mine, or less or more who gets stuck in it for ever. And so my assumption is that, I don't know. Do you understand what my assumption

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:44
is? Yes, yeah. Yeah. Are you are you kind of more prone to either depressed thinking or experiencing depression? Because of certain genetic marker? Yeah, I would say yes, that that is certainly does exist. But there's also the other components of life like the, your, your resiliency, you the people around you, the support that you have, I think is really crucial. If you are experiencing a, you know, a triggering event that might lead to depressed thinking or symptoms or error or clinical depression. The the capacity for you to reach out for help. Now, are those all due to genetic markers? Maybe are those due to the fact that maybe your the community around you can support you or not? There are a lot of different I would say factors around that. But yeah, I'd say it's a both it's Yes. Both? And to answer your question,

Scott Benner 56:45
do you think that peeps are people who maybe know in the past that they've had trouble or gotten stuck for longer times than maybe feels? What they see normal around them? If something like this happens to them? Should they be running right to a therapist? Should they be should they literally like, leave the hospital and go and call the therapist and be like, hey, look, my kid was just diagnosed with type one diabetes, I got a feeling this isn't gonna go well, for me, like, let's start now. Because I've interviewed people who have, like, I just did an interview the other day, that it'll be out in a little bit where, you know, this, this woman describes an incredibly happy life. And then at one point, she felt suicidal and said, she had never felt that way ever. And it was after a diagnosis for a child. And then, you know, just as you described, had had a spouse with her, that was able to, you know, kind of keep her focused, as this thing had ahold of her. And it took a very long time for her to get through it. But she luckily had somebody with her in that moment. You know, she could have been by herself, I just feel like, you know, what, if she was a single parent, or didn't have a lot of family around her, like, how do you? How do you make that decision to get help when getting help? Seems like another failure?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:05
Right, right, or just another problem. Another problem, another thing to do, and maybe if you are in, you know, an extreme level, experiencing extreme levels of depression, you know, it's hard to motivate to do anything. And I think if, if we're talking about this, within the scope of diabetes, I mean, hopefully, because there has been such a shift, and a trend in, in our medical health providers, or healthcare providers to be more aware of the psychosocial symptoms for not only the person with diabetes, but also for the caregivers, that they would be assessing, you know, both both parties, their level of their psychosocial care, their mental health. And so, my, my hope would be that, that would be the starting point, you know, whether you're, you're coming in for your, your checkup, or you're bringing your child in for a checkup that they would be asking those questions. And if not, that you would be able to tell them, you know, how you're doing. And your question is, what if it becomes to a place where you feel like you can't reach out for help? I think that's where, if maybe reaching out for a mental health support is too much, maybe exploring insights like your like your podcast, you know, realizing that I think depression likes to tell the person that they are alone in that, and it becomes isolating and it feels really scary to be in that state of mind. And so recognizing that you're not alone in that and if it's just means listening to your podcast, if it means going on a different website. JDRF just had their their summit and there's a lot of great resources on their website from their summit this over the summer,

Scott Benner 59:56
or what was wrong with the idea of listening to the podcast, what are you doing, driving people away? What are you doing? I'm just kidding. Wherever you can find help, I'm happy for you to find it. Well, okay, so I know we're up on an hour. Do you have a little time beyond the hour? If I drag you past it or you have a heart out?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:13
I have. I have a little bit extra time. Yes. Okay. So

Scott Benner 1:00:16
I have one more question. That's the real simple thing real quick. Is it true? I was told this, that my daughter's diagnosis that the that in America, one in two marriages end in divorce, but when you have a critically or chronically ill child, excuse me, it goes to two and three?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:37
Well, I don't I don't, I can't back that up. But

Scott Benner 1:00:40
is it more likely you're gonna get divorced if your kid gets sick?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:44
Gosh, I hope not. No, but I think like any other major stressor, be it financial or, you know, job, job insecurity. That's chronic, you know, any other chronic stressor in a marriage is, is a challenge. But I think the the important piece is, and I think you mentioned this in one of your podcasts that, you know, if one parent is the sole caregiver for the person, for the child with diabetes, that's, that's there's going to lead to burnout and maybe some feelings of resentment, unless that's already established. And you've communicated that. And that's the way you all want it to be, which would be hard to believe it. That's it. But if that's how your family setup works, then that's great. But I think the communication piece is so key and understanding without a sum without assuming, okay, well, you know, mom's at home, so she's going to take care of Bobby and or vice versa, like in your case. And so I think if there's the communication around that, that would help prevent issues of resentment.

Scott Benner 1:02:02
Oh, it's really easy to be like, Look, I'm doing everything and you're doing nothing. And, you know, because you because especially in the beginning, if you don't know what you're doing, it's already mind numbing. And then you start having that feeling like you're killing the person, because you can't figure out how to use the insulin. That's an added thing, then you feel like you're alone, and you're by yourself, and no one's helping you. And then when your spouse acts like, oh, that's your job. You're like, oh, wait a second. You know, like, I would love help. But it's also not reasonable, like my wife and I came to the conclusion that it needed to be one of us. Because as we tried to pass it back and forth, we would just we found it impossible because we found ourselves having to, like, you know, recount everything that had happened for like the nine hours prior, like, Okay, so for breakfast, you know, it's six o'clock at night, and you're telling someone who just got home from work, or breakfast this happened or use this much. And it happened with MPW and then at lunch, and then this and then you feel like you have to you feel like your nurse passing off to another nurse. Right? And so one day, we were like, Alright, look, I'm gonna take care of it, we won't pass it back and forth, because this wasn't working for us. And so I don't feel any, like, bad feelings around the fact that it's, it's more me than it is her. But how did just happen that way? Had she just like, buried her head or like, you know, turned her back on me and started kicking the ground. Like, she found something interesting. While I was doing diabetes, I would have been angry, like, quick, right, you know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:33
right. So yeah, you guys had that kind of predetermined role and responsibility set. And I think that's, that's key, you know, a lot of a lot of arguments or misunderstandings in just in marriages in general is without, you know, assuming things, feeling like someone's someone has responsibly do something when maybe it's a joint responsibility. So I think that's, that's great that you guys had that opportunity to have that conversation. Yeah. And agreement. All right.

Scott Benner 1:04:03
I'm gonna ask you to generalize, then you're gonna tell me you're not going to, but it's not going to stop me from asking, Okay, I've realized you're too professional and you're on the ball. By the way, you must be really good at what you do. Because I talk in big word pictures. And you remember my question and come back to it afterwards, which I find incredibly impressive. I don't hear you making things so well done. But look at me, I'm just like, I'm so impressed by that. Well, thank God no, seriously. But here's my here's my statement that I'm going to ask you to agree with or are telling me that I'm wrong. Boys are boys and then they grow up and become men and then they marry people and then they're not as much help as the women just say it right? Like, like women are more generally speaking, focused and familial, and guys are more like I made money already. Let me get to my PlayStation. Like that kind of is that true? I know there are some men who aren't I'm obviously one of those men. and who isn't like that? But for the most part, if we were just going to generalize, women are screwed, right? Go ahead, say,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:05:08
Well, I'm curious, I'm curious as to where where you're going with this,

Scott Benner 1:05:12
I grew up in a blue collar world where men did not get involved in family. And then it all seems to be like this, you know, quiet agreement that people come to in their marriages, I do this, he does that he does this, I do that blah, blah, blah, and it all kind of works out. And the resentment is quiet takes decades to build. But then when you bring in the diabetes, real quick, everything gets jacked up. And now suddenly, he's not just ignoring the fact that the Christmas decorations need to go back in the basement. He's ignoring the fact that your kids blood sugar's 250. And now, and now what ends up happening is this goes from a thing that I find irritating because the house is a little bit of a mess, or we haven't fixed the hole in the roof or something like that, too. We're killing our kid and you don't seem to care. And then it has been my, my experience. And what I've witnessed from other people, is that women appear to have a genetic component to them that once they give birth to a child, they care very much about that child, and a lot less about everybody else who is not that child. So now you suddenly went from being like my boyfriend, who became my husband to becoming this guy who doesn't care about this to 50 blood sugar, and now you're a danger. And am I wrong about all that? Like, that's just how I see people?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:06:35
Yeah, well, I think, you know, I, you're right, I'm not gonna generalize, because

Scott Benner 1:06:40
you wouldn't use your professional.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:06:45
Eye? Because, you know, look, look at you Case in point, I think there are families who create different structures for that within themselves, I think the issues that you are, like the example that you just gave, occurs, when there's not, there's no communication, and that now they've gotten, they've just kind of, you know, the partners have been set in their ways. And for better, for worse, and then when a when a major stressor occurs, such as a diagnosis, the, the rhythms and routines can become, obviously troubling, but then then it's exactly exacerbated because now we're talking about our child who it's it feels life or death, you know, to manage their diabetes care. Yeah. And so if there's already this built in resentment that I'm doing, I'm doing X, but you're doing y. But now you're not helping me with my child with our child. That creates, obviously, a major conflict. And so I would, I would encourage people to, you know, what, what you have modeled, and just explained within your family system, every family system is different. And while you know, there, there might be stereotypes of what the male or female or different partners do. It doesn't really matter when it comes down to your child who's living with diabetes, to get really clear with who was doing what, and what does that look like on a daily basis? Because if it's not clearly communicated and understood, then that resentment and that burnout is going to happen for the caregiver. And you know, who knows what's happening for the child with the diabetes?

Scott Benner 1:08:35
Allow me now to argue the other side of it? Because really, did I believe what I said? Or was I just painting a picture, okay, and now, so here's the next side of it, right? You can get into a situation where, hey, you one person are in charge of the kids, you make decisions like this, I'm not involved, I haven't been involved in two years, three years, four years, five years, I feel out of the loop. You seem to be doing such a good job with the diabetes, this is a scary thing. I don't know anything about it. I'm very afraid to mess it up. So I think that there can be a time where one of the spouses looks disengaged, but is really just frightened out of their mind doesn't have the extra problem of being the person with the kid. So they get the walk away from it, whereas you are frightened out of your mind. But you're stuck there making the decision. So you figure something out, tried, it doesn't work, try something else, this works. Now you're going through trial and error on your side, the other person's not going through that. And because of that, they can feel more like hey, maybe I should stay out of this. I think there are plenty of people who heard me say the first thing that I said and thought, yeah, that's right, my husband or wife is is an evil and they don't help me with this and blah, blah, blah. But I also think that that person could have heard it and thought I just don't want to mess this up. And it seems really important and I don't know what I'm doing. I think that there's a misunderstanding, almost constantly between married people, but I think we mischaracterize each other almost constantly. Do you think that's true? You talk to married people? Do people not really understand each other?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:10:13
Well, I think, not not consistently, but I think there are moments or events, or going back to, you know, just any stressor that might challenge our, our understanding of one another of what the, you know, relationship looks like. I think, you know, I'd be curious and in the, you know, I have seen couples who are, you know, we, I'm working with it with a child with diabetes, but also the couple, who are are struggling with that dynamic of, well, you know, she takes care of the house and I and I do the diabetes, or vice versa, or, you know, whatever, whatever role is defined for each person. But then there's that the fear of not knowing or maybe the other person is feeling like the partners passive in the in the children's care, diabetes care. So I think it all goes back to what, what is everyone feeling in the moment? Let's communicate around that? I mean, I'm curious if you do have check in times with your wife like, does she want to, to be more a part of the

Scott Benner 1:11:23
care or a better note with her money making money, Erica, She better not lift her head up, I need her working. Understand. She's not allowed to look up, she's allowed to eat, use the bathroom twice and work. That's it. That's her job. No, we, when, when life allows, we bumped into each other and fill each other in. Right. And that really ends up being how it goes, I would love to tell you that I have a specific time for but that's not reasonable. You know, sometimes it's before bed, which by the way completely kills the idea of having sex and you're like, Oh, the kids are having trouble with school and blah, blah, and you're just like, I'm gonna go to bed now. That we're, you know, like, we'll stop, I have to be honest, because of COVID. We're around each other more often, we just had a conversation before I jumped on with you about something that would not have happened before. And I'm going to tell you, from my experience, these little like pitstops are super important. Because once they get to build up, your conversations turn into this mishmash of like you blurting out a bunch of stuff you meant to say, her trying to respond, she blurting out a bunch of stuff she meant to say you try and respond, I've never seen one of those conversations go well in my life. But you know, like you have to every once in a while stop and say, Hey, did you see that this happened? Or that, you know, college said that they're gonna go back. But this that doesn't seem right. Maybe we should figure something else out. Just keep people thinking about things over time, like they're, to me, it's just a constant conversation. Yes. And it's doesn't always go great. It's just the best you can do. The problem with managing a life is that you're trying to live one at the same time. Yes, there's two competing things happening and every second of your day.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:13:05
Yes, and I think sometimes for the caregiver, you know, the caregiver just might need some validation to I think it's important, just like we're asking, I would ask the person with diabetes, to ask for what they need, do they need some more problem solving? Or do they need some validation? I mean, those aren't the only two things you could be asking for. But those are kind of the main points. And just like, you know, apply those same ideas to the caregiver, does the caregiver need some more problem solving around how to manage your child's diabetes? Or are they just wanting some validation of like, wow, it must be really hard to really monitor, you know, Bobby's blood sugars, while also trying to do all the things you want to do for your own life. That must be really, really challenging. And thank you so much for doing that. I mean, I think, like, basic validation, and gratitude goes a long way. But to be to ask for what you need as a caregiver, and also for the person with diabetes if you're able,

Scott Benner 1:14:04
and this goes for being married in general, right, like, because I think that I think that overall, people think there's two ways that marriages end either you just get sick of each other, and you go your separate ways, or you give up and die. And that's not to shouldn't be the two basically conceived endings of how marriage go. You know, and I think there's a way to realize that there, you're shooting for a long time, that there are going to be good days and bad days, good weeks and bad weeks, good months and bad months, good years and bad years. Like I once told my wife when we were first married, she's like, what's your expectation for all this? I said, well, listen, if we stay married our whole life, it'll end up being maybe about 40 years if we're lucky. I think if we have you know, 10 really great years and 10 Okay, years and five years that sucked and five years that weren't too bad. that'll probably be pretty good. You know, like, like, I mean, I think that a striving for perfection constantly. Is A bit of a fool's errand, and it really just leaves you more let down than fulfilled. I think there's, you know what I mean? Like, everything can't be perfect all the time.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:15:11
That's exactly and that leads to the thinking of, you know, I'm I'm not a good enough, you know, parent, I'm not a good enough caregiver, I'm not a good enough partner spouse. And so yes, the the, the validation, the gratitude and the self compassion are, are key to kind of get through the long haul of of diabetes when the in the family system for sure,

Scott Benner 1:15:33
right. Yeah, yeah, once you've heard my stories, 800,000 times, there's got to be something else that makes you go, I'd still be okay, waking up tomorrow if he was here. And like, you know, and I think what you just said is really important is that we're all just, I mean, listen, I can be completely honest, I need validation, just like everybody else does. I know, I'm doing a good job. But if the people I'm working so hard for don't appear to care, then what's the point of it? You know what I mean? And they can you can feel like that at some point, like, nobody seems to care. And I get that, you know, nobody's gonna run around telling you, I really appreciate my laundry being clean. You know, and I'm not looking for that. I'm not looking for someone to come up to me every five minutes. But there's a moment where, you know, Arden has Chinese food going into a donut and I don't let her blood sugar go over 110 where it'd be cool. If someone would look over and be like, Damn, you're good at that. And I'm like, Yeah, I'll

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:16:29
say that. I'll say that. That's really impressive. Eric,

Scott Benner 1:16:31
I'll put your NYC right in the fives. No trouble you come over here. I really appreciate you doing this. i This conversation was everything I hoped it would be. And I'm hoping you might decide to come back on more than once because I think there's a lot more to talk about. This was great.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:16:49
Oh, wonderful. I would love to thank you. I really I really enjoyed it as well.

Scott Benner 1:16:57
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. Don't forget, you can get your free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box and learn more about touched by type one at touched by type one.org or on their Facebook, or Instagram pages.

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