Scott Benner 5/16/25 Scott Benner 5/16/25

#1524 Habit Lab: Tiny Wins, Big Results

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Stop chasing big goals—pick one tiny action each day, make it easy to do, and celebrate every win to build habits that stick.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, we're all back together for the next episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Welcome.

Welcome back to part two of our habit building, habit breaking, goal setting extravaganza with Erica Forsythe. If you haven't heard the first episode, go find it right now. And if you want to learn more about Erica, Erica forsythe.com Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. AG, one is offering my listeners a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3, k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink. AG, one.com/juice box. To get this offer, don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com the podcast contains so many different series and collections of information that it can be difficult to find them in your traditional podcast app. Sometimes, that's why they're also collected at Juicebox. Podcast.com, go up to the top, there's a menu right there. Click on series, defining diabetes, bold beginnings, the pro tip. Series, small sips. Omnipod, five ask Scott and Jenny. Mental wellness, fat and protein, defining thyroid, after dark, diabetes, variables, Grand Rounds, cold, wind, pregnancy, type two diabetes, GLP, meds, the math behind diabetes, diabetes myths and so much more, you have to go check it out. It's all there and waiting for you, and it's absolutely free. Juicebox podcast.com This episode is sponsored by the tandem Moby system, which is powered by tandems, newest algorithm control iq plus technology. Tandem mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows, and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox the episode you're about to enjoy was brought to you by Dexcom, the Dexcom g7 the same CGM that my daughter wears. You can learn more and get started today at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox, Erica. We are back to talk about goal setting and building habits. Today we're going to start with, what is this? The SMART framework. What is that? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:39
so this is probably one of the most commonly used or identified ways to articulate a goal. The SMART framework basically means, let's say you meet with a therapist, whether it's a physical therapist, or you're going to the gym, you're meeting with a trainer, they might say, Okay, well, let's let's put you. Let's say you you want to lose 50 pounds or you want to get stronger, they'll say, You know what, let's make this really specific. So SMART stands for Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and time bound. So in this other example, instead of just saying, you know, I want to save money or I want to grow my savings account. The SMART goal would be, I'm gonna save $500 in three months, okay, by cutting dining out to once a week. So it's specific. It's measurable. You have the actual action item that you're gonna be doing and measuring that. It's achievable. You know, you're not saying in one week, you're not saying in five years, it's three months. It's relevant. It's actually something that you can understand and actually do and time bound. Now this is really good in the mental health world. You might use this goal, particularly in evidence based practices. But what you'll find while you're trying to work on achieving these smart goals. And this is what we're going to get into. There are going to be barriers of, why is it so hard to not go out to dinner once a week? What is interfering with that? So this is one framework that I think is important to mention that might be relevant. As you said, I think in the in the first in our first episode, that you are going to achieve your own habits and your own goals in your own way. So we're going to talk about different ways to achieve that. This is just one way that can be helpful for many. Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:30
while you're listening to this conversation, in your mind, replace specific focus on pre bolusing, maybe, and CGM checks measurable track your pre bolusing success rate and a 1c reduction, you know, make an achievable goal of reducing, I don't know, a half a percentage point in three months, and then use three months as a time frame and and keep moving forward like that. Instead of looking at a 10, a 1c and saying to yourself, how am I supposed to get this to a six? That idea? Yes. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Yes. Okay, go ahead, please.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:01
Yeah. Love that. Yes, I'm going to Pre Bolus. And even, you know, narrowing it down to I'm going to Pre Bolus every meal, I'm going to Pre Bolus just for one meal. Or sometimes that even feels too vague, sometimes we'll say because of various maybe concerns or fears around highs or lows, just start pre bullishing One minute before your meal, then in two minutes, because

Scott Benner 5:25
you'll see an improvement, and then you'll get the correlation between what you did and the improvement. And that might make you try it for two minutes and three minutes and four until you get to the space that works best for you.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:36
Yes, the achievable part is really important, because if you set a goal that feels scary from the get go, you were not going to do it. I'm not going to do it right. Like it's we need to know, you know what? I think I can try this one minute before I sit down to eat and experiencing that. Like, yes, I did it.

Scott Benner 5:55
Let me ask you professionally, why is that? Why would people say I can't do that. Just not do it. You just said, like, if you, if you, if you set too large of a goal, what it seems insurmountable, and so you quit, or you just don't even try. Does it work in someone's mind?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:13
It's various factors. It would most likely be from either trauma from the past, right? Oh, I Pre Bolus that time, and I had a terrible low, and I had a seizure or lack or kind of mass experience of doing it one way. And you become comfortable with that way of bolusing when you sit down to eat or bolusing right, as soon as you start to see the arrow go up, even though maybe in your heart and gut and everything you want to change, that you want to feel better, feel healthier, the comfort and attachment to the way you've done it really interferes with the change, and When you resist that, I was reading Carl Young, who says the famous quote, What you resist persists, okay? And so there can be this, like, internal battle within you of like, oh, I this is feels too scary. I just don't know. I don't have, I don't feel comfortable with this. And then that might lead to more shame. Why can't I do this? I can't I then you get stuck, but you resist, persists and leaning into that, like, Okay, wow, this is feeling really scary for me, right? Like, just even pause. And this might feel really silly, but this is part of the work we would do. It's like, gosh, let's lean let's just validate. Like, this feels really scary, and we are going to lean into some compassion and acceptance around that before we start waging war with ourselves in this goal that might seem very simple to some, just say we'll just rebol us five minutes before your meal start there, right? So this lands differently for everyone based on their experiences. So

Scott Benner 7:56
the resistance creates some sort of a an inner conflict with yourself now that's the fight instead of the thing that you were trying to get to. Yes. Really, yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:06
So you can get stuck in your mind just battling it out, like, why can't I do it? Oh, I can't do it. I'm terrible. I'm never gonna be able to do it. I'm a failure. And with that kind of language and mindset, it's really hard to move out of that. Yeah, so that's part of the self awareness. What's

Scott Benner 8:26
that saying? Oh, darn. I laughed a second ago because I'm so interested and amused, and it's a wonderment how, like our brains work. It's so it actually made me think, when you said yes, I thought, I wonder how we'll be 500 years from now. That's what I thought. I'm like, I wonder if we'll get past this. Do you know what I mean, like, are we, like, the amoeba version of humans right now, and like, this will get better? Is this just where we're going to be stuck? And there's that saying energy goes where the where the attention goes, like Energy flows where the attention goes. That's the thing, right? So can you trick yourself into creating. I mean, how would you go about that? Right? Like you need to, you need the the actual thing you want to do be the thing you put your attention towards. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:09
let's transition to that good. Good.

Scott Benner 9:13
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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:24
we've all just starting off with the very basics. We've all maybe heard, or maybe you haven't. That's okay, the visualization, you know, the vision boards. And we might think that's really silly or not worthwhile step in this process, and in no way do you have to do that, but I think it's an important part of the process of getting to like we just did in the I think the first episode of You know, why is it Who do you want to become? What is that identity that you are longing to create? And so James clear says, you know, start with the person that you want to become, and who's the type of person who can do this kind of thing I want to do, so that, you know, it's always easy to talk about these things in weight loss. We could also talk about it with, you know, diabetes, of like, I want, okay, I want to lose 40 pounds. That's the goal. That's the outcome, yeah. And the assumption is that when I achieve this goal, then I will be happy, like I'm not happy now, but when I do this, then I'll be happy. And he really encourages us to inverse that process and say, Okay, who's the type of person who can lose 40 pounds? Okay, I'm going to be, I want to be a healthier person. Yeah. So I'm not going to put the goal. I'm not going to put the number or the time frame. I'm not going to focus on that, which might be confusing, because this is a little bit different from what we just talked about with the SMART framework. For some people, that might really work the SMART framework, but for others, putting kind of that 40 pounds or six months, or, you know, when I go on this trip, on the shelf and say, okay, would that person with that with a healthy person miss a workout? Like, what would a healthy person do? So in the diabetes way, you know, you could say, Okay, let's say your goal is, yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 13:15
I always just use Jenny in my head because, because she's a smart eater, she's an exerciser, a person who follows the schedule. You know what I mean? Like, she doesn't get dissuaded from her goals. I've tried before, like I've said to her before. I'm like, Jenny, what do you do on a car trip? Like you don't pull over to get gas and grab a candy bar. And she goes, No, they'll go, what do you eat? And she goes, I pack something and bring it with me. And I'm like, Oh, you're one of them. You know, she's one of people with low, stable blood sugars. Great time in range. Super freaking healthy. So is it fake it till you make it feels really good. She looks awesome. She's doing great. Is it fake it till you make it? Is that what it is? Or No?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:55
Okay, no, so no and yes. Okay. James says, Okay, I love this quote. This is one of his most famous quotes. Every action we take is like a vote for the type of person we wish to become. So hat and he says, habits are how you embody the type of person you like to become. So if you're wanting to become a clean, organized person, and you want that to be reflected in your bedroom, make your bed, maybe. And that might feel like a huge task. There's even a book called, I was just looking at this, you know, make your bed, little things that can change your life and maybe the world like so starting off with that, you know, what? What would a clean and organized person do today? Oh, they're gonna make their bed. And then that action is a vote towards becoming that person, identity, becoming that person. And he talks about, you ask, like, is this? Just fake it till you make it? And he, even, he addresses this. You know, it's this mindset of identity based. Is a little bit different from that, because, well, first of all, it's important. It's that can be a good step, because you're telling yourself, like, you can do it right, like maybe you're fearful of speaking in public, you're really nervous, but you're going to tell yourself, I'm a really good public speaker. I can do this. I'm looking out in the audience, and I'm, you know, connecting with this person and making eye contact and feeling comfortable. I'm a great speaker, so you're kind of quote faking it till you make it. That works for only so long, because then you're asking your mind and your body to believe something positive, but you don't have the evidence in the long term. Okay, does that make sense? So it does. He kind of even jokes to say that, like, what you know, when we believe something without facts and without evidence, that that's actually delusions. I think there's an element that that is important and can be a good first step for some but if that's all we're hanging on to, is the fake it till I make it mindset, then that that will prove to not be effective eventually,

Scott Benner 16:02
all right. Well, I just put that book in my Amazon cart. Make your bed, yes. Oh, it's great. I also put my I needed soap, so I did that at the same time. I'm glad this is such, yeah, oh my gosh. Like, Oh my God, I need soap plum here. Ah. Uh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:23
well, that's a vote towards being a healthy person, you know, a clean a clean person.

Scott Benner 16:27
That book and that soap will arrive tomorrow, between 4am and 8am

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:32
it's a short book. It's, I have it right here. Oh, you do look at that. It's good, yeah, it's a good book, as you

Scott Benner 16:37
were describing. I was like, that's something I'd like to read myself. I'd like to pass around to my kids. So, yeah, so I can't give it to my wife, because, you know, she's perfect, but I would definitely, I would definitely give it to my children. Yes, just in case people are wondering, I like to use Tom soap in the shower, and it's hard to get.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:55
I was gonna ask, but I'm like, I don't know if that needs to be. It's the

Scott Benner 16:58
lavender for it. It's lavender, and Shea and I prefer to bathe with it so my skin's sensitive. Otherwise, even with like, dove or something like that, I can get like, anyway, this is neither here nor there.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:09
Okay, we all know now you have sensitive skin a little bit. I'm

Scott Benner 17:14
a little sensitive. Yeah, I'm sorry. Keep going. I apologize.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:17
This kind of gets into a little bit of that we've talked in the past of the CBT triangle, which is the cognitive behavioral therapy and that the triangle is that our thoughts affect how we feel, and our feelings affect how we act or behave. And as you're envisioning that triangle again, the arrows go back and forth, right? So our behaviors can affect how we feel our thoughts can affect our behaviors, right? So they're always impacting and affecting one another. So his James hole, one of his main points also is that it's really important to lead with actions. Because if we start, if we say, well, I'll get to it when I feel like it, or if we're really kind of letting our thoughts lead us. You know, I'm a good public speaker, right? The Fake it till you make it mindset. What we really need to do and to create the habit over time is leading with the actions, okay? And that creates the identity formation. So it's going back to, what would this blank person do today? So whatever that long term goal is, right? Like, what would a healthy person do or choose or decide today? So you're

Scott Benner 18:35
not faking it, you're really doing it. You're just looking and you're saying, This is not what I would do today, but this is what a person who has the outcomes I'm hoping to have would do. So I'll do those things, and then through that, you are doing it. I once said on the podcast when I was trying to figure out how to eat better, I just started following healthy people through the grocery store because I thought they might know what to buy, that I don't know what to buy. That's it. That's yeah, yeah. And I actually found that this is gonna sound terrible, but the people who I didn't want to appear like, they ended up in the aisles with the food that I was like, Oh, I shop in this aisle too often, apparently. Like, so I'll leave this aisle go to another one. You know, it's funny, because it is how I have the podcast set up. Is aspirational, and that's what we're talking about, right? Like, just find somebody who's knows how to do the thing you don't know how to do, and copy them until it works out for you. Oh, okay, awesome. Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:32
yes, and I know that, yes, yes. Okay, yes. Well, the grocery the grocery store example is so great because you were actually you had the tangible example in front of you, right? You were, instead of asking yourself, How would a healthy person grocery shop? You actually followed a person and then you and then actively, you are becoming that, yeah, it

Scott Benner 19:50
was like, How do I get that ass? I'll follow that person. Does anyone ever turn around? No, I mean, I'm not following them that closely. No, I just, I just, honestly, I just, I. Followed Healthy People like I was like, what see? What aisles they go into? What do they pick up? What do they look at? Right? Because, you know, I'm always telling people about diabetes like, you know, just because you don't have the tools doesn't mean you don't know how to do it first. You just need the tools. So the tools for me in that scenario were the food. Like, I was like, I don't know what food to grab, like, so I'll watch them. What do they grab. Okay, I'll grab some of that that looks not objectionable to me. Now I have tools in my hand. I'll go home and cook it, and then, you know, there was even part of me that's like, I probably am preparing this incorrectly, because I grew up like a trash person eating, so I don't know how to make this. So I looked online for how to healthy ways to prepare the food, made the food, and it helped me with diabetes. The same thing, like, maybe somebody didn't teach you how to set your basal up, or Pre Bolus, or something that, oh my gosh, that's what's going on. For most of you, you don't have the tools. You still have to be alive. You do the best you can. It doesn't go well. It gets frustrating. You can't even set a goal, because you know what the goal should be, but you have no idea the steps to get there. Okay, I got it. I'm sorry. I'm figuring this out as we go, keeping in mind that we're

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:08
the goals. The goal setting is actually really easy, right? We can all say, Yeah, we want a whatever number, a, 1c, we can all say, I want to be able to lift X amount like, that's really the easy part. It's breaking it down, creating the habits and getting into the systems that we'll get it we'll talk about right on this notion of of identity formation, of who do I want to be, and how is that person going to make a choice today? Just a little thought around Brene Brown, you know, one of my favorites, and that, and when we are pursuing certain habits. If we're choosing those habits that involve how other people perceive us, then that can lead to shame, internal shame much quicker and easier. Okay, right? So, if you're forming a habit to reach a goal, what's about other people and how they think of you or view you. That's like that external like, Oh, that. I'm gonna do this because this is however I want someone to see me in this way, then we are much more easily gonna go down that path of shame.

Scott Benner 22:14
Yeah. Okay, so I don't care what other people think of me, I just know where I wanna get and that's what's important. But

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:20
that's not always the case for everybody, right, right? Yeah. So

Scott Benner 22:23
what happens if that's how I feel? If I go, Oh, I don't if I, if I choose this person's path, and I think this is a path I'd like to follow, but I don't want somebody to mock me for doing it, like, how do you get around that, that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:37
or I want to reach this goal, because I think other people are going to perceive me differently when I reach this goal. Every time we make a choice or don't complete that habit to get to that goal, we are going to feel shamed. We are going to shame ourselves, right? If, because, like, if the end goal is because I want my doctor to think this of me. I want my community to think this way of me, attaching the goal to how we think other people are going to perceive you when you reach that goal leads to shame, because when you don't take the step towards the habit building to get to the goal, you feel crummy. Okay,

Scott Benner 23:13
see the step, so setting the small goals, taking the steps, that's what's important, yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:19
and being aware of the end result and why you're wanting that result, and is it for the you know,

Scott Benner 23:26
for them, or for me? Yes, yeah. So doing it for yourself is very important, yes, yes, yes, yes, because it doesn't if you're doing it for someone else, and you trip, then the shame fault flows in. If you're doing it for yourself and you trip up. Why does that help you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:45
Well, you, I mean, you, we still can go down the path of shame very easily. I think what, what James says that we can become these victim we can become a victim of the expectations that we think other people have about us. So if you're trying to reach a goal because we think other people expect us to or we think they're going to think differently of us and we don't reach that goal, then we're feeling kind of like a victim of their expectations. But conversely, if you're just doing it for yourself, we can you can also feel badly about yourself, but it's different. So

Scott Benner 24:27
is it about how you hold yourself or how you actually feel like you know, it's so strange you're bringing this up. So I'm gonna say something I'm a slightly embarrassed. Bucha, we ran out last night for dinner at the last minute, me and Kelly and Arden, and we were been working all day, so everybody was sort of, like, in sweat pants or, you know, like sweat shirts. I was had like, a baseball hat on. We're staying in this restaurant. And Arden looks over now, Arden's dress very well. You're not catching Arden outside if she doesn't look great, right? So she looks at Kelly, and she goes, Mom, I'm gonna need you to just try harder. And she and she, and she's like, and Kelly's like. I worked all day. This is just what's in. She goes, I know, but still, she looks at me and she says, for no reason, because he doesn't deserve to feel this way. Dad carries himself like he's the governor of a state. And I was like, what? She goes, You act like you own a state. And I was like, right? And she was, You're not acting like you really you're projecting how you feel about yourself. And I said, I guess, like, I don't know, like, it's not a thing I'm doing on purpose, but I thought about it a lot after she said it, she's not wrong. Like, I have a fair amount of self confidence. And I guess it comes out in that it also comes out in things we do. Like, for example, before we started recording today, you're like, Hey, how are you? Oh, my God, I'm like, knee deep in this thing. I'm launching a brand new community for people with diabetes. Do you know who I'm doing it with me, and it's gonna be a huge undertaking. And I said, like, it was nothing. I said, I think if I just put a good year into it, it's gonna be like, I'll get it. I just set it off handedly. You were like, I was like, Okay, well, a year is that all you're gonna do? Like, to me, that's all of this. It's goal setting. And this podcast taught me about goal setting. It taught me that set a goal, make sure it's reasonable, and then can do it. Like, don't, like, sit around and, like, plan it out for 10 years now, I will be honest with you, this community thing's been in my head for four years. I've been mulling it over a long time and setting up pieces in the background and assets for it, and building another community in Facebook that I think can help feed it. Like I didn't just like, run outside and y'all, I'm gonna do it. But when the moment came and I had all the pieces in place, I was like, okay, oh, I had the tools. When I had all the tools in place, it was like, All right, it's time to start building the ship now. And I don't care if it fails, and I don't care what anybody thinks about me while I'm doing it. And if it fails and people like, point at me I won't even notice. Like, even in a social media world where people could literally, like, make it known to me, like, I think you screwed this up, I'd be like, I don't care what you think I was trying to do something good, and I'll just do it again. So, but why? Like, you know, like, where does that come from? Is it experiences? Because I don't know that I was always like this, you

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:10
know what? I mean? Yeah, so I'm thinking, there's, well, there's two. I'm like, What is your identity formation? So you're at, you're already acting, instead of being like, what would a healthy person do? You're, you're already like, acting as if you could not. I don't know successful like, what would a successful person do? Secret

Scott Benner 27:27
time, Erica, that's how I built the whole podcast. I was like, what would a person who's actually in this position? Oh, my God, I was doing this. I didn't even know it. What would a person who's in the position I want to be in act like in this situation? I did that in business meetings. Like, I did it. When I set things up, when I put things into the world, I'm like, like, I don't act like, Oh, I'm making a podcast. I act like I'm making a radio show, and it's 1990 and it's the height of radio. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's how I do it. Like, I act like that's what's happening. I am do. I'm not acting I'm actually doing it. Ah, so in context of the podcast, you can make a thing perfectly if people don't respond to it, it doesn't exist. It's a tree falling in the woods. Right the minute you get response back to it, that's probably when I was like, oh, people like this, I'm right. This will grow. And so as soon as I knew I was correct, then i was running. Does that make sense? So I did the thing. I didn't care if anybody liked it or didn't like it. That, by the way, if you're looking for my origin story, it's when I wrote the book, and I got a bad review one time, and I read it, and it was devastating. But I didn't care, because other people liked the book, and I was like, Well, some people liked it, everyone's not gonna like it. And then I was able to wash my hands of that idea that everybody had to like me. That's gone. And then I wanted to make this podcast, and I said, and I Oh, I had the freedom of not caring if everybody liked me at that point, yeah, yeah. So I started the podcast. I watched it help people, and then once I saw that, it was doing what I thought like once I saw I had cause and effect. I said, Oh, I did a thing. This happened. That's what I thought was gonna happen that was valuable and positive for somebody else. I'll do it again. Let me multiply it by a million, if I can. Then I was off and running. Oh, okay, so I had to get knocked down before I got up again. Is this a Chumbawamba song my life?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:19
I know I was like, Oh my gosh, that's the song.

Scott Benner 29:24
Where'd I come up with? Chumba. Lumba, by

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:25
the way, that was impressive. Yes, I get knocked down

Scott Benner 29:29
exactly. We don't want a copyright problem. But yes, that's it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:32
Okay. Sorry, sorry, I was off tune. So it's all good. Going back to the you were acting as if you were a podcast creator in the beginning, right? Like you, and then, like, what? What would a podcast creator do? And you would do those steps. And then eventually you became one, right? So then, and then you had the evidence built in, but your actions in the beginning and you were acting as if you already had a podcast before you. Had a podcast. Yeah,

Scott Benner 30:01
that's all. I should be on YouTube telling people how to do things, but I'm busy, and I'm not trying to snooker you out of your money or your time or your views. And the truth is, where did I get that from? I got it from people I listened to, and when you look back at them, they didn't know what they were doing, either. And the one kindness they did in the world was when they told their story, they said, I didn't know what I was doing. And I started this thing where I was bad at this, when I started and I got better at it, you know, people told me no, and I didn't care. I did it anyway. I was driven to do it, so I did it. So you just take all of this here. Listen, if you're listening, just take all of this and apply it to your diabetes, and, boom, you'll be fine.

Unknown Speaker 30:43
Well, yeah, with

Scott Benner 30:45
a lot of work and help,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:46
a lot of work and self awareness and compassion. What is the purpose of the goal? Who are you trying to impress? Are you feeling like you're a victim of how other people perceive you? Oftentimes, when you get stuck in that, and I'm just trying to think about, you know, in your experience, if you're feeling like, Oh no, is everyone not gonna like this, when you're kind of thinking about this, like, collective experience, when we get stuck in that narrative of like, Oh no, if I reach this goal, or will this habit make me reach this goal, and will that goal, will other people perceive me in this way to break it down and ask, like, put individual names and people in that and usually you don't really care. Like, do they care if I don't do this thing or if I do? And usually the answer is no. So just being aware of, are you feeling? Are you so concerned about how the people and we're human, we are all concerned about how the other people of the US?

Scott Benner 31:40
Yeah, I'm not unaware that it's important to me. Like, if people care about me and love me, but I just people outside of my sphere, I don't care. I don't care. Like, if a stranger gives me a bad review, I was like, Oh, they didn't like it because I had to go through that process, because the first time it felt like they didn't like me, you know what I mean? And then I was like, Oh, I don't why would that matter? There are people who like me, like, I that's I'm just not for everybody. Like, I would tell you that one of my secrets is, is being able to give things away, like, is to not like, hang on things and be burdened by them forever. Like, this thing, you know, was hurtful. It was impactful. I processed it, and I moved past it, and I don't think about it anymore. And I, trust me, there are plenty of people who don't like me, and some of them say it online. I've seen it like, but it's I don't know, like, what am I going to do? You know? Awesome. Yes, you know what? I want to give you a pat on the back. This is the wrong phrasing, but I'm going to give you a lot of credit here. It may not surprise people who are listening for a long time that Erica has sent me very thoughtful notes about what we're going to talk about, and it may not surprise you that I don't read them. I follow them while we're talking, but I don't read them ahead of time. And I'm always impressed that when I look up at the notes you got me to the spot, I'm like, Oh, I'm there. I'm there. This is where I would have been if I would have read ahead and like and I find that really impressive, and I think it's probably something that people enjoy about these recordings between the two of us, because you're doing such a good job of walking me through this process that I'm having a realization as I'm going and I'm imagining that's happening for other people as well. So really cool. Thank you. You're awesome. Thank

Unknown Speaker 33:19
you. Yeah, are we at the end of

Unknown Speaker 33:20
Part Four,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:23
yes, the second episode, yeah, this vision, yes, identity based habits,

Scott Benner 33:27
and we're out of time now, so we'll stop. Is that right? Yes, okay, all right. Thank you so much. I really do appreciate

it. Thanks so much for listening to part two. There's more, so go find it. There's part three and four out there somewhere, and if they're not available yet, check out another episode or go to Erica. Forsyth.com to learn more about Erica, the podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juice box. There are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g7 and the Dexcom g7 warms up in just 30 minutes. Check it out now at dexcom.com/juice, box. I can't thank you enough for listening. Please make sure you're subscribed, you're following in your audio app. I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. My diabetes Pro Tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward, practical insights that truly make a difference, this series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin dosing adjustments or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over 35 years of personal experience. Comments, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. The Diabetes Pro Tip series runs between Episode 1001 1025, in your podcast player, where you can listen to it at Juicebox podcast.com by going up into the menu, the episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrong way recording.com,

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Scott Benner 5/15/25 Scott Benner 5/15/25

#1523 Pittsburgh Screwdriver

Andrea is one of three siblings with type 1, all of whom grew up with subpar medical care. She opens up about mental health and the cultural challenges of living with T1D.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juicebox Podcast.

Andrea 0:13
My name is Andrea, and I am one of three type ones in my family.

Scott Benner 0:17
Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com AG, one is offering my listeners a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3, k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink. AG, one.com/juicebox to get this offer, I created the diabetes variables series because I know that in type one diabetes management, the little things aren't that little, and they really add up. In this series, we'll break down everyday factors like stress, sleep, exercise and those other variables that impact your day more than you might think. Jenny Smith and I are going to get straight to the point with practical advice that you can trust. So check out the diabetes variable series in your podcast player or at Juicebox podcast.com today's podcast is sponsored by us med. US med.com/juicebox you can get your diabetes supplies from the same place that we do, and I'm talking about Dexcom, libre, Omnipod, tandem, and so much more US med.com/juicebox or call 888-721-1514, today's podcast is sponsored by the insulin pump that my daughter has been wearing since she was four years old. Omnipod. Omnipod.com/juicebox, dot com, slash Juicebox, you too can have the same insulin pump that my daughter has been wearing every day for 16 years.

Andrea 2:08
My name is Andrea, and I am one of three type ones in my family. How old were you when you're diagnosed with type one? Officially, I was 14, but I was diagnosed as type two when I was around 1112,

Scott Benner 2:23
ish, who else in your family has diabetes? My

Andrea 2:27
older brother was diagnosed when he was four in 2000 and then my little sister in 2005

Scott Benner 2:33
both with type one. Yeah, type one. I think 1007 I apologize. Oh, okay, but you were first.

Andrea 2:39
That was actually the very last one in 2013

Scott Benner 2:43
Oh, my God. Wait So Andrea, are you telling me that both of your siblings have type one diabetes, and yet they thought you had type two diabetes for three years?

Andrea 2:51
Yeah. And it was crazy, because I lost so much weight, and they're like, Nope, you're chubby. Here's some at foreman, did

Scott Benner 3:00
you go to a doctor's office at the back of a 711 like, what were you who? Who messed this up for you? Well, I am from Florida, so it's totally possible that it might have been the endo will be back. He's out herping right now, but as soon as he collects 11 boas,

Andrea 3:19
anti alligators and tail gators, they'll be back. Oh,

Scott Benner 3:23
gosh. So, wow. So you lived for three years as the type two, yeah,

Andrea 3:27
and they put me on Metformin, but, you know, it makes you go to the bathroom pretty often. You're not to be TMI, so I just, I refuse to take it. Then finally, they did like the g a d test, serum test, my GED was pretty high. I think it was 30. And then they finally put me on insulin. So that was

Scott Benner 3:47
a huge relief. The gat anybody finally pushed them over the edge, yeah,

Andrea 3:52
but I still can't believe they didn't do it prior. You know, since my other two siblings had it, oh,

Scott Benner 3:58
my god, Andre, I can't believe they didn't go, Oh, we've been waiting for this. Her other two siblings have type one. Like, did your parents push back?

Andrea 4:03
Honestly, my mom is also kind of, like, anxious and shy, like, like me, but a little bit less. So she kind of agreed that it was just type two. You know, I was always like, 1015, pounds overweight my whole life. So everyone's like, Oh no, you know, it's type two. Like your dad

Scott Benner 4:21
and your father has type two. Yeah, he has type two.

Andrea 4:25
I don't know what he takes. I think he's taking my foreman, but, yeah, he's had type two and pre diabetes for ever since I can remember. Okay, so I think they just thought I also had it too interesting.

Scott Benner 4:36
Well, what was that time like? I mean, you must have had a slow onset, or you would have gone into DK and died like so because you weren't using insulin, you weren't even using the Metformin.

Andrea 4:47
Yeah. And I actually just went to the my chart this morning, and I was looking at some labs that they did, like, two months before, and they did look at your analysis, yeah. And I only had two COVID. Less ketones. So I wonder if that kind of made them think she kind of has ketones, but not

Scott Benner 5:06
really. I wonder if you had lot, like, like, a lot of presentation. I mean, it has to be, right, I think so, yeah, just such a slow onset that it didn't hurt you too badly, and they weren't able to make that type one diagnosis. But you think the GAD 65 antibodies would push them over? Oh, yeah,

Andrea 5:24
I definitely think so, because I looked on the notes and it said, Yep, she has type one, like her other two siblings, just like that. Aaron will start insulin. Did you

Scott Benner 5:33
start with a pump or injections? How did it

Andrea 5:35
go injections? You know, even though it was mid 2000 10s, like early 2010s they put me on mph, Humalog and Lantus. So it was three different types. Why mph? I think it's because of the school. Like, we never took insulin in school. So we would take like, for example, I would take 15 units of Humalog every morning, 15 of mph, and then the MPH would cover, like, my lunch. So I don't know if it was to save a shot at school, but yeah, I never knew anything different. I thought it was normal. I was kind of shocked when I went to, like, my first, like, adult Endo. He's like, No one uses mph anymore.

Scott Benner 6:19
What are you from Manitoba? What about your your siblings? Were they doing that as well? Yeah,

Andrea 6:24
they were all doing that. We were all, like, taken at the same time, like, at 630 in the morning. My mom's like, okay, come on, everybody. And you know, my brother, my sister, and then me,

Scott Benner 6:34
just like a conga line of of injections. Yeah,

Andrea 6:38
it's like, Come on, everybody, daily meds. But,

Scott Benner 6:41
yeah, right, you just in a line in your underwear, like, waiting. Like,

Andrea 6:45
yeah, we're all like, halfway asleep. You know, we have another younger brother who does not have type one. He would always be like, oh my. He's like, do I have to do this eventually? We're like, we hope not. What's his name? Lucky? Honestly, that's what we should call him. Okay, seems Joel, but honestly, he's the lucky one. Listen,

Scott Benner 7:03
I'm from Philly. I don't want to hear about anybody named Joel. Oh, yeah. Just this, this thing. That's not his name, then, oh, okay, I don't like what the Sixers have done. So when you switch over to a faster acting insulin, it's because you're older, like an adult endocrinologist. But like, Were your siblings going to, like, the same doctor as you, or did your mom, like, look up and go, Hey, maybe we should be doing this for everybody.

Andrea 7:26
I think it was because that's what my big brother is like. Very first endo was doing. This is also like, 2001 22 and then we switched to another doctor, um, and he just kind of, like, stayed following the regimen. But then when I went to go see a an adult Endo, he took me off of the mph. He doubled my Lantus, but my older brother stayed doing that until recently, okay? And then my sister was actually on a T slim at that time, so she was only Nova log. So we're all kind of like managing it differently, but now two of us are in a pump, and then one is still an MDI, okay,

Scott Benner 8:02
does everybody have a CGM, yes, okay. How long ago was this? Now? How old are you? I am 26 oh, this is over a decade ago.

Andrea 8:11
Yeah, I just got my pump. My very first pump that I got was a dash, which was like, in 2022 so I'm still kind of new to the pumping I still feel like an infant,

Scott Benner 8:22
like in the pump stage. Are you still with Dash? No,

Andrea 8:25
I actually switched to Medtronic almost a year ago. I'm pretty happy with it. Yes, 670,

Scott Benner 8:30
g7, 80 G, 70 Yeah. Why am I still stuck in 677,

Andrea 8:35
80 G, yeah. Same numbers like same number, different pattern.

Scott Benner 8:39
Listen, I've said this before, and Medtronic sponsor, but you got to name these things better. Yeah,

Andrea 8:43
something cooler. Alligator, Medtronic alligator for the Floridians.

Scott Benner 8:48
For Floridians, what a long title. It wouldn't fit on the box, but the 780 G, that's a complete system, right? So you're wearing that with their sensor, yep. So

Andrea 8:56
I use their guardian for sensor, which, when it works, it really works, but when it doesn't work, it's kind of annoying. Like, you know, you got to, like, you know, replace the sensor. But I like it so far. Yeah, it's been pretty good to me. And

Scott Benner 9:10
then after the Guardian four, there's another sensor coming from them, though, that's more like, Dexcom, like, and it's build,

Andrea 9:16
yeah, the simplra, which I'm super excited for. But they're not in the US yet, so just waiting, just just waiting,

Scott Benner 9:24
Yeah, but you're happy with it for now, yeah, I think I'll stay with them electronic for now. Yeah, no, that's great. I love, I love when people find what they what they love. You know what I mean, things that work for them, I think are important,

Andrea 9:35
yeah? So the way I got on the Medtronic was, I think it was like 2023 when everyone was freaking out that the Dexcom g6 were no longer going to be they're still available, but they were, like, phasing them out, yeah. And I told my sister, you know, I really want, like, a closed loop system. She's like, Well, why don't you just get the Dexcom and, you know, my insurance didn't cover at the time. I. Was like, Yeah, but I don't want to pay, you know, the higher co pay, and I'm just going to Medtronic, you know, and then g7 comes in. I'm like, Oh, I could have just waited,

Scott Benner 10:11
but you're happy, and that's what's important, you know? Yeah, it's a process. The entire thing's a process. How long have you known about the podcast? Honestly,

Andrea 10:20
my sister and I were joining Facebook groups like anything that had to do with type one. So I joined your group in 2023 a couple of months before I got the Medtronic, I was still in the Omnipod five. At that time, I was like, you know, I'm in the group, but I've never listened to the podcast, so let me listen to the Omnipod five pro tips. So that's how I got introduced to the podcast. I was a group first, and then I went to the podcast. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:47
how valuable Did you find the online portion of the community? I feel

Andrea 10:50
like I could actually like search things and there were like answers and opinions. Yeah. So I love the group,

Scott Benner 10:56
good, good. I'm glad. Let's break your time up like into like sections your first three years of not having any insulin. Do you have access to what your a one Cs were back then? Oh,

Andrea 11:09
yes, I actually just looked them up this morning. They were around 13.7 and then one was 14.9 and then when I finally got diagnosed. It was 15.1

Scott Benner 11:22
feel like someone should, should yell at the people who you were seeing for your medical care at that point. That's crazy. But okay, so you get on to MDI, right? And you get some insulin. What happens then? Because you're about 14 at that point, today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omnipod. And before I tell you about Omnipod, the device, I'd like to tell you about Omnipod the company. I approached Omnipod in 2015 and asked them to buy an ad on a podcast that I hadn't even begun to make yet because the podcast didn't have any listeners, all I could promise them was that I was going to try to help people living with type one diabetes, and that was enough for Omnipod. They bought their first ad, and I used that money to support myself while I was growing the Juicebox Podcast. You might even say that Omnipod is the firm foundation of the Juicebox Podcast, and it's actually the firm foundation of how my daughter manages her type one diabetes every day, omnipod.com/juicebox whether you want the Omnipod five or the Omnipod dash, using my link lets Omnipod know what a good decision they made in 2015 and continue to make to this day, Omnipod is easy to use, easy to fill, easy to wear. And I know that because my daughter has been wearing one every day since she was four years old, and she will be 20 this year, there is not enough time in an ad for me to tell you everything that I know about Omnipod, but please take a look omnipod.com/juicebox I think Omnipod could be a good friend to you, just like it has been to my daughter and my family. I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies. I never had a good experience, and it was frustrating. But it hasn't been that way for a while, actually, for about three years now, because that's how long we've been using us med. Us med.com/juicebox, or call 888-721-1514, US med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omnipod, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, the number one rated distributor in Dexcom customer satisfaction surveys. They have served over 1 million people with diabetes since 1996 and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping us. Med carries everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three and Dexcom g7 they accept Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers find out why. US med has an A plus rating with a better business bureau at usmed.com/juicebox, usmed.com/juicebox, or just call them at 888-721-1514, get started right now, and you'll be getting your supplies the same way we do. Yeah,

Andrea 14:32
I'm about 14. You know, starting high school, I gained 15 pounds over the summer, which I was not happy for. Freshman year, we did mzi, and it was, you know, take, you know, 10 units for lunch. Take this for snacks, take 10 units for dinner. And I just kept on following it like I never carb counted, like, if I was eating a banana, maybe five units, which was way too much. Like, I didn't really know that the. Amount of insulin correlated to carbs, really, like, and how much food that you were eating? Yeah, so I was going low a lot, and then, like, you know, the crazy highs, it was just not the best time. Do

Scott Benner 15:13
you think you were gaining weight at that point from the eating to cover the low blood sugars?

Andrea 15:17
Oh, yeah, I was eating a lot, like, I think I was started on, like, a very high dose of insulin. I was going low a lot. And I just remember I was eating everything and anything. My mom was cooking, like everything. There was no food in the house, thanks to me.

Scott Benner 15:32
Let's just create, I mean, so now you've got bad advice for the first three years, then somebody figures out you have type one, but then they don't give you good advice there, either. So, yeah, how long does that go on for?

Andrea 15:43
Oh, my, I would say up until, like, three years ago I was doing this, I didn't, like, know what to look for, and part of that is on me, like, the not being as educated, but I really didn't start to, like, look into it, until I started listening to the podcast, really, and, you know, my sister was telling me about it, and that's when I was like, oh, oh my, what have I been doing for the last decade? So

Scott Benner 16:11
for a decade, you're just shooting randomly insulin here and there, yeah, getting low eating, but you're going to an endocrinologist. What are your a one CS? Like, why aren't they saying something to you?

Andrea 16:24
Honestly, I think it was because it was always three of us in the room. Like, you know, it was my my brother, my sister and me, really, I feel like it was, you know, with the don't die advice, like, okay, just, you know, maybe don't take as much here and there. My a one Cs were always in, like, the eight to nines,

Scott Benner 16:41
and no one ever said to you. Do you remember saying to them, Hey, listen, I get low a lot. Honestly,

Andrea 16:46
I don't think I said anything. Andrea, why do you think? Honestly, I think it was just because my mom always spoke to the doctor, and my siblings and I were just kind of like, just just sitting in the chairs, just, know, letting her do all the talking. And you know, I would tell my mom, like, you know, I'm getting low. And she's like, well, here's some juice. But I didn't know at the time that it was because I'm taking too much insulin. I was kind of just following, like, the paper, like, hey, like, take, you know, five units for this. And I'm like, okay, just blindly following it.

Scott Benner 17:16
Oh my gosh. You told me that your your boss is gonna listen to this, so you're not going to curse, but I almost cursed just now, just so, you know, it's okay. If you do it, it's okay, but if it's me, I have to watch it. I'm angry for you, you know. And you're so sweet, like, you're just like, it's okay. I didn't know,

Andrea 17:32
yeah. And, you know, listening more to the podcast, and, you know, I switched to, like, another adult Endo. That's when I was like, oh, like fats and, you know, protein can affect it too. I learned so much more in like, the, honestly, like, the first three months of listening than I have from any handout, any like, appointment that I've ever had with the Endo. And, you know, it's, you know, thanks to you and your guests, that you know this information is a lot easier to access because I didn't even know about this. I didn't even know what to look for.

Scott Benner 18:04
No, I'm so happy that you figured it out, and if the podcast helped you, that's just that's a lovely bonus for me. But I'm just happy you're better because you're on a bad path, like, what's your a 1c now, ooh, it is a 6.20 my gosh. And how often do you find yourself so low you have to eat everything in the kitchen rarely.

Andrea 18:22
The only time I really go alone now is if I Bolus too early for my meals. But that rarely really happens now, but I am super happy now with my better a, 1c,

Scott Benner 18:33
Yeah, mine made me so happy. I feel genuinely pleased for you. That's awesome. That's great. Okay, so tell people what you learned, like you said, you learned about, like, fat and protein and bolusing for that. But I mean, you had to start at the beginning. Didn't you? Like, were your settings right? How did you learn to count carbs? Finally, like all that,

Andrea 18:51
the one episode that I really think about a lot, and I hope I get his name right, I believe it was Terry lives on a boat. And I remember, I was leaving work, and I was like, Oh, I really want Wendy's. And you guys are talking about, you know, protein and stuff. I was like, Oh, I'm like, let me try this, which, of course, is not medical advice. But I was like, let me try this real quick, you know, the formula he was using, and it worked. I got like, a giant chicken salad, and I was straight line, 108, at the end of it, I was like, Oh my God. What did that feel like? I felt like I'm not a parent, but I could imagine this is, like, when a parent listens to a kid say their first word,

Scott Benner 19:32
yeah, it's like a ton of pride, yeah. I was like,

Andrea 19:35
Oh my gosh. I'm like, I could have been doing this and I didn't know

Scott Benner 19:38
Terry lives on a boat's a great episode. Yeah, wow. Oh, it's so crazy. It really is genuinely, I don't know, like I'm struck by the fact that you're just going along with these crazy a 1c that nobody's doing anything about it. You don't know to ask about it. And then you think your sister, you remember what happened to her, that she thought. We should learn more about this. So

Andrea 20:02
she is the first one that went on a pump and also a CGM. And, you know, I was, I'm very, I don't wanna say old school, but I'm very, like, I'm scared, you know, to have something on me, yeah? But he was like, no, no. Like, she's like, if you have a CGM, she's like, You don't have to blindly Bolus, which what is what I was doing? If I'm like, Hmm, I think I'm like, 250 let me just Bolus

Scott Benner 20:26
real quick. You weren't testing to see No, but

Andrea 20:30
I was just like, random. I'm like, Oh, I feel like I need, you know, five units. Oh, no, maybe I need 10. Like, I was just random. It was kind of like a plain Dart. It's like, let's see which one I land on.

Scott Benner 20:43
How much of this do you think just goes to your personality, like your mom was taking care of it. The doctors are telling me, you sound you say you're like, a little, maybe, like, reserved, right? So I'm just trying to get through the idea of, like, you know those a one, Cs are not good, right? When you're getting them. Honestly, I'm so

Andrea 21:01
embarrassed to say, but I remember when I had like, an 8.0 and I was so happy. I was like, so proud of it, because I thought it was good. I thought, like, below nine was like, Oh my gosh, yay.

Scott Benner 21:16
Is that because at points, you had thirteens and you're like, oh my gosh, I've knocked it down five points,

Andrea 21:21
yeah, I really was, I was like, Oh, I'm on top of the world. I have an eight, a, 1c, you can't touch me. Like, I was so, uh, you know,

Scott Benner 21:30
wow. So you just thought nine's awesome, because, you know, it's better than 10, eight fantastic. It's way better than 12, like, that kind of stuff, yeah.

Andrea 21:39
And I really did think, and that was, like, all of us, like all my siblings, you know, we were all in, like, the nines the eights because we were only taking insulin three times a day, you know, yeah, in the morning, chemolog and NPH, and then at nighttime, you know, our Lantus and then our lunchtime Novolog. Are

Scott Benner 21:59
all three of you doing something differently now, like, obviously your sister is it sounds like she figured it out maybe before you did what about your the third sibling? Yeah. So

Andrea 22:06
my older brother, he's still doing MDI, and he has a Dexcom g7 Okay, so he's doing that. My sister has the Dexcom g7 and the T slim, and then I have my good omnidronic.

Scott Benner 22:19
Do you guys talk about diabetes between the three of you,

Andrea 22:23
honestly, not really, maybe with my sister. Like, sometimes we'll talk, if we're going out to, like, lunch together, I'll be like, how much did you take? She's like, Oh, I took 10 units. And I'm like, Oh, I'm I'm taking 15. And you know, of course, we have different, like, sensitivity stuff. Sure, that's one of the most that we talk about. Or, like, if I'm really annoyed with, like, my CGM, I'm like, can I borrow Dexcom? Like, I just, I don't want to use my CGM. And she's like, Yeah, here,

Scott Benner 22:48
and you guys do that. Yeah. Okay, so I'm not here to, like, say something bad about your healthcare or your mom or anything like that. Okay, but like, with some distance, you see that you got pretty rough treatment, medically.

Andrea 23:03
Yeah, now looking back, I really do think it could have been better. And, you know, I gave my mom a lot of, I don't know what word leniency, I don't know. I feel like that's kind of a harsh word. But, you know, she didn't really speak English, so she was just trying to navigate it, all, you know, with assistance from like, translators or interpretators, as I should say, yeah, so I kind of don't hold like a grudge against her, because I think she was trying her best.

Scott Benner 23:29
She was at a pretty significant disadvantage as well. You think, yeah,

Andrea 23:33
like looking back, because we did have, like, Medicaid sometimes. And my sister was like, you know, we could have had, you know, CGM and pumps at that time, right? And I was like, Oh, I'm like, I did not know we always had just, you know, our regular, like, ultra touch meters, yeah,

Scott Benner 23:49
you weren't getting good direction. And there were language barriers. And you got, like, you said you were a little quiet. On top of that, your mom's quiet, and, yeah, yeah. And so just all that kind of stacks up, and then your sister gets a pump, and that's what kind of moves everything in the right direction.

Andrea 24:05
Oh yeah, she's very strong, like, she's like, the, I don't know it's like, the tough sibling, but she really is a lot vocal, like, advocating for herself. So when she got her pump, she was like, really telling me, like, hey, the pump is, you know, it changes everything. You know, you don't have to be taking shots all the time, which is also part of why my agencies were so bad. Like, if I didn't feel like taking a Bolus,

Scott Benner 24:30
I'm not gonna do it. Really. You were always bolusing, um, for meals.

Andrea 24:34
But like, if I felt like, uh, I feel kind of like, like, my blood sugar is high, I would just ignore it and hope it goes away. Kind of like, you know, take a Bolus of hope and make it go away.

Scott Benner 24:45
Bolus of hope. Okay. I mean, that all makes sense to me. It really does. You can look at it from like, a long distance and say, I can't believe nobody told them. I can't believe they didn't wonder. But at the same time, like, I can see how these things stack up and lead you to this place. Yeah.

Andrea 24:59
And. Very lucky now that, you know, we have access to, you know, the group, the podcast, all this information, I really do feel like it's helped me tremendously. I went from a 7.7 to a 6.2 in the span of a year. You're in like, two months. Wow, all this information, I feel like really motivated me to do those changes. It's

Scott Benner 25:23
having good tools and understanding what you're talking about. Yes, really is, because before

Andrea 25:26
I'm like, I'm like, Bolus, I'm like, what is that? Had even I never heard of that word until the podcast. Are you serious? Yeah, I never heard of that word. Like, I would just say taking a correction. I didn't know it was like, Bolus, right? I was like, Bolus and like, sounds like a puppy name, okay? So

Scott Benner 25:45
there's context for having just definitions of words that are being used. Yeah,

Andrea 25:49
it took me a while to get used to it. Like, you know, like, basal, Bolus sensitivity factor. At first, I was, like, very intimidated, and that's why I kind of, like, backed off for like, a couple of days, I was like, Oh, this is kind of scary for me, you know, yeah, let me, you know, back off. But then I was like, I'm gonna go blind in 40 years if I continue this path of, you know, 10, A, one,

Scott Benner 26:12
CS. Why did you know that? Oh, because, honestly,

Andrea 26:16
when I was first diagnosed as type two. So this is, like, probably 2011 ish, I had a really bad fall at the school, like the middle school, and I got, like, these really bad, like, I don't want to say burns, but I fell on the concrete pavement, and it really scratched my legs, like, really bad. And, you know, at that time I a one, Cs were like, you know, 1213, and I just remember they were just like, I don't know if this is TMI, but it was like oozing pus, and it was just disgusting. And I was like, I don't want that to happen anywhere else, you know. And that's all due to my bad, you know, I hate to say bad, but to my high numbers. But

Scott Benner 27:01
do you think, like, even that much understanding about what complications might look like? Is that from your father having type two?

Andrea 27:07
Maybe my dad didn't really have like, I don't know if he ever had like complications.

Scott Benner 27:12
Was it spoken about? I mean, oh no, not

Andrea 27:16
really, really. His mom had type two and her last years of life, and she was blind. So that's kind of why I always had that, like that fear, like,

Scott Benner 27:25
diabetes equals blindness, yeah.

Andrea 27:29
So I was like, you know, I got to take care of myself, or else, you know, I don't want to be blind at the age of 70,

Scott Benner 27:35
I see. So there's enough, like, loose knowledge of things that may or may not happen to just get lodged in your head and push you in a direction. Yes, exactly, okay, but that doctors didn't help you understand that your mom was limited. Can I ask you if I took the bold beginning series and AI translated it into Spanish? Do you think that it would make its way around the internet? I think

Andrea 28:01
so, especially with like, you know, like the younger generations, and, you know, phones being more accessible, yeah, we're from a ranch in Mexico, and everybody has a phone, everyone's, you know, on the music apps. I think that it would be more helpful, okay, I think they would have more access to it, you know. I wish my mom had something like that, yeah, because, you know, at that time, it was kind of like old school type one info that was really upset. Is there enough

Scott Benner 28:28
community connection that you think people would pass it around? I'm not really

Andrea 28:32
sure, because I haven't been out there in a while, but I know there are some Spanish speaking type one groups. Okay, I'm actually like two of them. So I think if they got shared there, maybe it would get some rounds.

Scott Benner 28:44
Okay? It's a significant expense, and that's why I'm trying to figure out to do it or not, because it's going to come completely out of my pocket. No one's going to buy an ad on it, yeah, you know, or anything like that. It's pretty costly, but I just feel like it would be really valuable, yeah, and it's great

Andrea 28:59
information, honestly, info that you really can't get anywhere, like at the doctor's office, you know, not saying that they're not, you know, educated, but a staff member wouldn't tell me the info that, you know, I got from the podcast. Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:11
it's crazy. I don't know how to say this exactly, but do you think culturally, like, having diabetes is just a thing that people accept and don't do a lot to try to change?

Andrea 29:23
Yeah, I honestly, I definitely do think so, because, like, in my family, you know, my mom's always cooking, like, high carb, you know, it was always like, you know, Rice was like, half your plate with a tortilla and, you know, maybe a protein like chicken or steak or something. My father just kept on eating the same before he was diagnosed with type two. I definitely think it's accepted, and not really. I don't know what word I'm looking for. Like, done something about

Scott Benner 29:52
right? Yeah, almost like, oh, the BDS got me nothing I can do about it. Yeah, right. I got caught by diabetes. Yeah. Yeah, it

Andrea 30:00
finally got to me, you know, we were expecting him at seven, but he came at nine.

Scott Benner 30:04
Yeah, no, yeah. See, that's what I think. And then if you have the expectation that, like, this is just what it is. So then when you have those problems, you don't think I could change this, you think this is what's supposed to happen. Yeah, I

Andrea 30:18
definitely think that that is very much how I saw it in my family. And I hate to put, like, my dad on the spot, because,

Scott Benner 30:24
you know, how would he know, you know, yeah, like, I always remember,

Andrea 30:28
like, even though he had it, and, you know, we had, you know, type one, we were still eating very much, high carb meals, not doing any exercise, just kind of like, you know, we have it. Oh, well, it's just, you know, just put in the closet real quick. Let's continue with

Scott Benner 30:44
our life. We'll ignore this and have a plate full of beans and rice and, yeah, right. And just like, drive our blood sugar up for a day and a half. Oh, my,

Andrea 30:53
I can't I honestly, looking back, I just, I can't believe that, you know, we all managed to make it to our 20s.

Scott Benner 30:59
I'm gonna say, yeah. Like, right. You must be like, now that you have, like, real perspective on what the impact of that food

Andrea 31:05
is. Oh, yeah. Like, now I like, whenever, like, she makes like, rice. I'm just like, I love you, mom, but I'm gonna pass for right now, just because I don't feel like, you know, battling for the next two hours. Does

Scott Benner 31:18
she know now? Does she understand how impactful that food is.

Andrea 31:21
I think she does, yeah, yeah. I don't really talk to her much about it, but I think she does know now, like, we do try to make different things that aren't so carb heavy, but I can still see it when she makes it like, I can still see, you know, my other siblings and I, like, we kind of avoid it. What

Scott Benner 31:40
stops you guys from talking about it? Like, I'm wondering, like, at some point, have you not thought, Hey, mom, like, why don't we ease up on Dad? Here a little bit, you know what? I mean, yeah.

Andrea 31:49
And he also, like, I don't know if he's on any other medications, but he has been, like, losing a lot more weight. I can see he's trying to work on it, but, yeah, it's like, it's kind of like, I don't want to say you can't teach a dog new tricks, but, you know, it's like, you know, we eat this type of food, you know, I'm gonna, you know, make this food. You know, if you guys want less, that's fine. But, you know, these are, like, staples

Scott Benner 32:11
in our household. Has to be like, this, would your dad do a GLP medication? Do you think?

Andrea 32:16
I think so. I think would be helpful. You know, he's always been, you know, uh, a bigger guy, you know, he would be working outside, like, doing, like, hard manual labor,

Scott Benner 32:25
so that must be difficult with high blood sugars too.

Andrea 32:29
Oh, yeah. And then we're in Florida, yeah, by the Everglades, it'll really, oh geez, the swamp out here taught, I don't know how he does it. No kidding,

Scott Benner 32:37
yeah. I mean, if he's got reasonable insurance, he ought to talk to somebody about that and just see if maybe beneficial. Yeah. I mean, it could definitely, you could knock some weight off of him if he has it to lose. It might help with his blood sugar. Is this? Insulin resistance? A lot of different

Andrea 32:52
things, yeah. And honestly, I was actually thinking about asking my doctor, but I don't know. I'm trying to do it like with my diet and going on walks right now, because my sensitivity is not the best, but I do see it's getting better. Like, as you lose weight, yeah? Like, I lost, like, I want to say, like, three in the last month I've been, like, cutting out, like, everything. Like, sodas, awesome, tortillas, no more rice, which I miss very dearly. Yeah,

Scott Benner 33:18
man, those are some easy cuts, really. Like, when you say so did you, are you saying diet soda or regular soda? More

Andrea 33:23
like juices, like, so I'm like, kind of scared of carbonation, like carbonated drinks now, because why are

Scott Benner 33:30
you scared of carbonation? So I actually

Andrea 33:32
went into DKA in 2019, and at that time, I was obsessed with Dr Pepper. And so I was like, Oh my gosh. I'm like, I drank so much Dr Pepper and I wasn't bolusing for it. I'm in DKA. Wait. So

Scott Benner 33:48
now the bubbles you have bubble fear. No,

Andrea 33:51
have a bubble fear. I did refuse to drink sodas, like ever since 2019 I refuse to drink sodas. I don't

Scott Benner 33:57
think you should drink soda, so I'm okay with that, but you were drinking regular Dr Pepper and not bolusing for it, yeah?

Andrea 34:04
Like, I would, like, you know, if I would be driving, oh, let's take a Dr Pepper. It has to be the cherry one, though. Then I just wouldn't Bolus for it. I'm driving, I would not Bolus. Because,

Scott Benner 34:14
why? Tell me why. Honestly, I didn't really think it

Andrea 34:17
would affect me. Because at that time, I wasn't checking and I was just, you know, doing the random boluses here and there. I was like, oh, I'll just, you know, Bolus for this soda later, Andrew,

Scott Benner 34:28
you're being so honest, and I really appreciate this. But if you were diagnosed at 11 and you were driving and drinking a Dr Pepper and thinking it wasn't going to affect you, how many years with diabetes was it when you were cracking that Dr Pepper?

Andrea 34:39
Oh, my I want to say, okay, so I was 21

Scott Benner 34:44
I was a decade with type one diabetes, and you were like, this, Dr Pepper is not a problem for me. No, it's it doesn't count, you know. And when you look back now being honest, oh, I wanna were you lying to yourself, or did you really not know?

Andrea 34:58
I honestly think it was like, deny. Oil and lack of education, okay? Like, I feel like I was, yeah, like, denying it, like, you know, it's not food, okay?

Scott Benner 35:07
So if I would have pinned you down back then and said, Listen, you gotta be honest. You know this is making your blood sugar go up, you would

Andrea 35:14
have said, Yes, I'm like, I know, but not really, because it's a liquid, because

Scott Benner 35:18
it's a liquid, doesn't count. It's Tuesday after three.

Andrea 35:23
Yeah, I'm like, No, that. I don't even know what you're talking about.

Scott Benner 35:27
My gosh, now you wouldn't do that. Now, is that correct? Oh, no.

Andrea 35:31
Like, so sometimes, like, we go out to, like, eat and stuff, and I love unsweet teas. Like, if I put like, one sugar packet, oh, I'm putting that in my in my palm, I'm putting like, two carbs in, yeah? Like, I am very picky now, like, I really want to get everything in the pump. That's awesome, and I want everything Bolus for everything. How come

Scott Benner 35:50
you don't put a Splenda in that, in that unsweet day? Oh, I don't like Splenda. I

Andrea 35:55
like, I like equal. If they don't

Scott Benner 35:58
have equals, it'll put a sugar, sugar that's fair enough. Is equal the blue one? Yeah,

Andrea 36:03
that's the blue one. We are an equal guys. We

Scott Benner 36:07
we love equal Okay, so generally speaking, you would use a sub, a sugar substitute, and if you didn't have it, then, then you'd go with sugar, but you would Bolus for it. Yeah,

Andrea 36:15
I like to do, like, two carbs per little packet. Nice. That's really rare. Can

Scott Benner 36:20
I take credit for that, for you being a person who's bolusing for your for your sugar packet?

Andrea 36:24
Yes, because before I thought like, only like carbs, like and by carbs, it was like, you know, rice cakes, you know, cereal. I'm like, only those things raised my blood sugar. I wouldn't even think that protein would raise you so if I eat chicken, I'm like, this chicken, I'm doing it. I'm bolusing for the chicken, for the protein.

Scott Benner 36:47
Awesome. Do you know where you got that idea from? Honestly,

Andrea 36:49
from that episode about Terry lives on a boat.

Scott Benner 36:53
No, but I mean, before that, where did you get the idea that, like, only carbs in certain forms had impact on your blood sugar? Oh,

Andrea 37:00
because that's how we were doing it here. Like my mom, she had, like, a hard time understanding that, you know, other things also impact. And I always remember this office visit. I was still not type one, but I always remember this one day that we went in for my brother, my sister and I just, you know, tag along with them, yeah. And, you know, the lady is like, you know, when you give your kids insulin, like, what are you giving them insulin for? She said, Oh, for the sugar. And she's like, Okay, what do you mean by that? She's like, Oh, you know, like, snacks, you know, bread. And then the lady was like, you know, do you do it for other things, like rice, you know, the tortillas you guys have? My mom's like, no, that's not sugar. So in my head, I was like, oh, like, I kind of, like, took my mom's idea and then I was kind of doing it until I was, you know, told otherwise, yeah,

Scott Benner 37:51
and do you remember that conversation enough to know if the nurse was like, hey, well, you're wrong. Honestly,

Andrea 37:57
I think they were being very soft. It definitely felt like a scolding, though, just because, you know, you know, I'm like, 11, I'm like, Oh my God, they're yelling at my mom, like, who are you? But now I kind of wish that you happened to me, honestly, because I feel like I would have definitely taken better care of it. Yeah, sometimes, you know, you just need a good I don't say good scolding, but

Scott Benner 38:22
you know, podcast, that's all, you'll be fine.

Andrea 38:24
Yeah. I'm like, let me put Scott on.

Scott Benner 38:27
We'll talk about it, and I'll feel better. Yes,

Andrea 38:30
honestly, I was listening this morning, um, I believe you just put the episode of Paulie. And I was like, Wow. She was also talking about how she was, like, misdiagnosed as well, or if they were having a hard time believing her. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's happened to me. You know that happened to me too. Can

Scott Benner 38:46
I tell you that I was contacted privately this morning by a relation? It's, I don't want, it doesn't matter how, and somebody's been diagnosed by being a EMT and checking their blood sugar during teaching other like trainees how to check blood sugars. And as crazy as that sounds, that's maybe the fourth time I've heard that story that is wild of people just who are EMTs and like, though they're on the rig and they're teaching new people, and they're like, well, here, here's how you do it. And they teach, they test themselves, and then go, Hey, what the hell like this has to be wrong. Yeah, right. I think I've quite literally interviewed three people who that's happened to, and now I know a fourth one. Oh my gosh. You know, the stories are so universal. I think a lot of times, you know, I think

Andrea 39:35
it's kind of like same story, different font, the same sentence, just kind of New Roman, Gothic style, a little

Scott Benner 39:43
different, but, but really the same. Yeah, enough for you to see the relevance to yourself in the in the conversation. What was that? Is that episode called floppy duck. Yes,

Andrea 39:52
the floppy duck, I'm, I still have, like, halfway to go, but I was just listening to left heart was like, Oh my gosh. It just, it's the same thing, different character. There's, yeah,

Scott Benner 40:00
yeah, but I know, like, you know, it's funny, I used to make such a big deal of saying all the time, like, I know you want to feel special, and I know your diabetes is not. It's different than everybody else's, but it's not really, it's a lot of similarities, at least enough similarities that we can all look at them together and say, hey, you know what? This person's not exactly like me, obviously, but enough of their story is my story that I can learn from it.

Andrea 40:24
Yes, and I think that's the beauty of the podcast where, you know, we all have a different entrance, but it's still like the same journey. Like you might go this route and I might go this one, and, you know, you and Arden go this one, but like, we're all trying to get to the same end goal of, you know, trying to be as healthy and, you know, happy as possible.

Scott Benner 40:44
That's the whole thing. Is understanding how to use insulin and folding that into your day to day life so that you have nice, healthy, happy outcomes. That's all, yes, that's

Andrea 40:52
the most important one, which is why I'm so happy that you exist, Scott, and that this podcast exists. You're

Scott Benner 40:58
very nice. Can I ask you, you talk a little bit in your note about depression, did you have trouble with that? Oh,

Andrea 41:05
yeah, I think that was also part of why I was kind of like, uh, you know, I feel like my blood sugar is high. I'm just not gonna do it. I'll do it later. It's kind of like, you know, like, just pushing it off. I was actually admitted to a psychiatric hospital for depression, you know, I listened to the episode. I believe it was, I think it was like the prison episode about how, you know, they treat the, you know, I don't want to say inmates. Maybe they're inmates feel something, they don't care. And honestly, I really related to that, because that's how it kind of fell in there, too. How long were you there? I was there for like, five days. I had major depression, and I just, I really needed help. And you know, there was a lot going on at that time in my life, yeah, and you know, things happen, and you know, I went there, and I just felt so I don't wanna say helpless, but I felt so I don't say naked, but I felt so helpless, not being able to control my type one, even though I wasn't controlling it well, I just I did not like that. Somebody else had

Scott Benner 42:07
control over it. Yeah. So how long ago was this? How old were you? I was

Andrea 42:12
22 so this was in 2020

Scott Benner 42:14
okay. And so even though you weren't, like, on top of it, on top of it, having taken away from you was painful. Oh yeah, it

Andrea 42:22
was a huge eye opener. It was like, I'm already not taking care of it well enough. These people are definitely not going to take care of it better, you know, than me, and I'm already at the bottom floor. Yeah.

Scott Benner 42:33
But does it? Does it feel like you've given control of, like, whether or not you breathe in or breathe out to somebody else? I think so. I've had people explain to me that idea of, like, you know, don't touch my pump, you know, don't touch my insulin, like, because it is so, it is so intertwined with who you are as a person, yeah?

Andrea 42:54
Like, I don't go anywhere without at least one vial of, like, my Nova log. Like, it's, it's me, it's

Scott Benner 43:00
like, me in like, mini form, yeah, you don't want anybody messing with that,

Andrea 43:03
yeah. And I just remember they would test your blood sugar. And I don't want to discredit them, because they did a lot of really good, you know, things for my mental health. But I just remember just I felt very restricted, and, you know, I did not like that. They were not letting me Bolus for my meals. They were only giving me like if my blood sugar was 200 only for the 200 go eat, and, you know, not for the food, not the best of a

Scott Benner 43:34
control. What do you think your a 1c was at that time in your life?

Andrea 43:38
So it was the 8.0 because they made me do labs before I went. And that's when I was, like, so proud of the 8.0 a, 1c, yeah.

Scott Benner 43:47
And how do you feel now, like those these years removed, have you experienced any depression since then? It

Andrea 43:52
comes and goes. I'm on a medication right now, which I think has really helped with my management. I definitely think it's an important role. You know? It gives me, like, more motivation, and yeah, so I'm very happy with it, and my a 1c is definitely a lot happier. My blood sugars are happier now, like, I'm more on top. I'm

Scott Benner 44:09
trying to figure out if you just feel lighter in your mind when your a one Cs are lower. Honestly, I

Andrea 44:15
think so, because, you know, it feels like a report card say you failed like, two tests, and then you're like, you finally got like, a better grade. And like, you're just getting a better one and better one. And I hate to even say it like that, because it's so damaging in some ways, but it feels

Scott Benner 44:30
like you're building momentum, though. Yeah, okay, you have a lot going on.

Andrea 44:37
Oh my Scott. If you have five hours, I can tell you everything.

Scott Benner 44:42
Pick something else you want to tell me. Let me see. I think we went over

Andrea 44:47
almost everything. I can't really think of anything else. Not really sure, Scott,

Scott Benner 44:52
look at you. You are so delightful. Why are you so nice? Honestly, I think is the anxiety. Wait a minute, so. So you have anxiety? I think

Andrea 45:01
so, yeah, I've always been a super shy kid, and I feel like that's also for my mom, and I've just always been super shy, like, and I'm a huge people pleaser. I know that's obvious, but I'm a huge people pleaser. And, you know, anxiety and all that, are

Scott Benner 45:18
there things you're thinking that you don't say because you don't want to be too like,

Andrea 45:24
I don't know, aggressive. Oh, yeah, sometimes I do think things like, like, for example, like at the endo when they were telling us, you know, why are you taking this I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. Why are you asking me? Like, why did you take 50 units to say, I don't know. I don't know.

Scott Benner 45:40
How else does anxiety impact you? Honestly?

Andrea 45:42
Like, if I'm very nervous for something like, my blood sugars will skyrocket, like, probably, like, 6070, points, and I just leave it there. Like, I won't Bolus. This is before I had the pump. But I definitely feel like I had a lot of higher blood sugars all the time. Like at school, I was always very shy, like the, like, the really shy kid in your class, that was me, okay, you know, if I had to, like, even speak to the teacher, I'm, like, shaking, almost crying. And I definitely feel like that probably impacted my management earlier. Like, always, always high, like, the adrenaline. I don't really sure, yeah, I definitely think it affects how I managed my type one. And, you know, my sister's a lot more laid back. She's, like, super relaxed, like, she manages it super different. And, you know, she doesn't really have anxiety. So that's how, like, I kind of, like, look at us. We're like, Oh my gosh. Like, we have the same thing, but it's not the same. Does it

Scott Benner 46:43
impact, like, your personal relationships or your like your work or having gone to school? Is there any other places where you feel limited by it?

Andrea 46:52
I think so. Like for school, like, right now, I work at a doctor's office as, like, the front desk, but, you know, I went to a technical college to be a pharmacy tech. I was just dreading going there, like, you know, I definitely did not want to stay there. Plus, I was only a temp higher, so it kind of worked out better that way. But personal relationship wise, I would say so sometimes, like, sometimes, like, I did not want to go out and hang out, just because I don't, I don't, I don't have the energy for it. Just being

Scott Benner 47:20
around people, does it kind of sap your energy, kind

Andrea 47:24
of, well, it really depends. Like, if it's people that I know, not really, but if it's like, Hey, you're beating 20 people today, I'm like, Oh no. How do I how do I get out of this one? Do

Scott Benner 47:35
you think Andrea? I know why. I can't think of the word. Because this is the first episode I've recorded since I had my surgery, and I'm still a little fox, but my brain is like, trust me, if we would have done this two days ago, this is the podcast would have sounded like me going, but I'm just a little like, I'm a half step behind right now. What is it called? When people, oh, God, I can't think of the word. This is so ridiculous. I'm

Andrea 48:01
kind of, like, thinking of, like, you know, like the Thor I'm harvest Thor, or the Infinity rings. Like, once I have enough people, I'm done.

Scott Benner 48:11
Okay, so, like, if you're around people and you don't know them, is it a lot of work

Andrea 48:16
for conversation? Yeah? Like, because it's like, I don't know what, what to talk to you about, and I just get super and that makes you anxious. Yeah, it makes me anxious. I don't know why, honestly, because, like, you know, I'm never gonna see these people again. So like, Why do I get like this? And then, you know, my face turns red, my blush goes up, and it's just a mess. Your face turns red, your butcher, I always call myself a tomato. Like, in your mind, you're like, This is ridiculous. I'm never gonna meet these people again. It doesn't matter what they think of me. And I say even that, I care, like, what they think. It's more like, I have to be here. It's kind of like, like an amusement park. Like, imagine you're the ride, and you just want to, like, I don't know where I'm going.

Scott Benner 48:58
No, keep going, you're the ride and what. And

Andrea 49:01
you just want people to be like, okay, like, Oh my gosh. I love this ride. I think it is the people pleaser in me. You know? It's like, you want people to like

Scott Benner 49:09
you. Has anyone ever called you introverted? Oh,

Andrea 49:12
yes, my fiance all the time. Okay, that's the

Scott Benner 49:15
word, by the way, that I couldn't find earlier. Case you're introverted, yeah. So he says you're very introverted. Yes. And he is a complete opposite. He's got, he's like, got kind of an outward personality. Oh, yes. See, can you feel drained after these social interactions?

Andrea 49:32
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes, like, I just want to go back home. I'm like, you know, I just, I can't I have to leave.

Scott Benner 49:38
Do you think of your life as limited

Andrea 49:40
because of that kind of not really well, I want to say yes, because I do like to, you know, go explore new things, but if there's a lot of people, it kind of drags out, like I have this kind of funny story. So my fiance and I went to one of his cousin's weddings in Pittsburgh, and I do not drink alcohol. Yeah, and they had an open bar. I had like, four screwdrivers, and I ripped my pod off because it was just, you know, it was almost out. I was like, I'm done for the night. Let's go.

Scott Benner 50:11
You got drunk and took off your Omnipod.

Andrea 50:13
I took off my Omnipod. Like, let's go. I'm done. You had enough

Scott Benner 50:16
vodka and orange juice that you're like, I don't have diabetes anymore.

Andrea 50:20
I even know who she is. Okay. Who she is. Go ahead. Then he went back to, you know, the hotel, and I was like, I'm just going straight to sleep. Like, he's like, No, he's like, you put another Omnipod? I'm like, No, I don't, I go straight to sleep. I'm like, for me, one drink is like 10. I was out of it, and so he put a new one on. I'm like, Oh, I'm like, well, I'll never have you another screwdriver in Pittsburgh again.

Scott Benner 50:46
He slapped the pot on you while you were passed out.

Andrea 50:48
Yeah. And I was like, so I was like, Oh, my God. I'm like, how did this pod get on my leg? I was like, did you put this on? He was like,

Scott Benner 50:56
Yeah, because you were gonna wake up and, DK, if you were lucky, yeah. And it

Andrea 51:00
was the first time he's ever done that. And, you know, it just really made me think of how important it is to have, like, a supportive partner, yeah, if you have type one, and, you know, I hope everyone you know finds that, because it's really important, especially when you know you have four screw drivers, you rip off your Omnipod and then you go straight to sleep.

Scott Benner 51:20
All right, do you ever suggest the podcast to other people?

Andrea 51:24
Oh, yes, like so we rarely have type one patients in the doctor's office where I work, but I have recommended it probably twice now to the type ones that do come in. And I recommend it because it gives so much good info. Okay, definitely the Pro Tip series. I've been trying to get my sister to listen but she never listens to, like, anything. I'm like, You have to listen to this. She's like, Oh my gosh, you've already told him, like, 10 times. So I try Scott. I'm trying to help.

Scott Benner 51:55
No, I just wondered, like, when you tell her to try it, what do you think she'll get from it. I definitely

Andrea 52:01
think the like avoiding going low, like in the bolusing for like proteins and like fats, I think that was that would be very beneficial, because we never learned that, and I've tried to bring it up to her, but it's kind of like, you know, we don't really speak about type one, so we kind of like avoid the subject. Sounds

Scott Benner 52:19
like, in your family, you don't really talk about these kinds of things. No, things. No,

Andrea 52:23
not really. Like, we'll probably talk about it, like, twice in a week, like, Hey, what's your blood sugar? Oh, your blood sugar is this? Mine's better, huh?

Scott Benner 52:30
It's kind of it just a little playfulness, yeah, just,

Andrea 52:33
you know, very sister esque, like, she's my little sister. We used to work together, and, you know, there was a subway across the street, and we would have like, little battles, like, whoever's blood sugar is higher has to go get the subway across the street. All right, listen,

Scott Benner 52:49
Andrew, you were terrific. I really appreciate you doing this with me. If you'd hold on for a second. Thank you for having me. Oh no, it's a it's a real pleasure. I'd like to talk to you for just a second after I hit stop. So hold on. Okay. You a huge thanks to Omnipod, not just my longest sponsor, but my first one, omnipod.com/juicebox if you love the podcast and you love tubeless insulin pumps, this link is for you. Omnipod.com/juice omnipod.com/juicebox a huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us, med.com/juicebox, this is where we get our diabetes supplies from. You can as well use the link or call 888-721-1514, use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us. Med. I can't thank you enough for listening. Please make sure you're subscribed or following in your audio app. I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. When I created the defining diabetes series, I pictured a dictionary in my mind to help you understand key terms that shape type one diabetes management. Along with Jenny Smith, who, of course, is an experienced diabetes educator, we break down concepts like basal, time and range, insulin on board and much more. This series must have 70 short episodes in it. We have to take the jargon out of the jargon so that you can focus on what really matters, living confidently and staying healthy. You can't do these things if you don't know what they mean. Go get your diabetes to find Juicebox podcast.com go up in the menu and click on series. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongway recording.com,

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Scott Benner 5/14/25 Scott Benner 5/14/25

#1522 Tired Uterus

Josalyn is a labor and delivery nurse and mom of six—her youngest, was diagnosed with type 1 at age 5. This episode dives into the challenges of parenting a big family while managing T1D.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Jocelyn 0:14
My name is Jocelyn. I have six children, and I'm a nurse.

Scott Benner 0:19
Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast, should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. AG, one is offering my listeners a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3, k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink AG, one.com/juicebox to get this offer, don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com the podcast contains so many different series and collections of information that it can be difficult to find them in your traditional podcast app. Sometimes. That's why they're also collected at Juicebox podcast.com go up to the top, there's a menu right there. Click on series, defining diabetes. Bold beginnings, the Pro Tip series, small sips, Omnipod, five ask Scott and Jenny. Mental wellness, fat and protein, defining thyroid, after dark, diabetes, variables, Grand Rounds, cold, wind, pregnancy, type two, diabetes, GLP, meds, the math behind diabetes, diabetes myths and so much more, you have to go check it out. It's all there and waiting for you, and it's absolutely free. Juicebox podcast.com Today's episode is sponsored by the tandem mobi system with control iq plus technology. If you are looking for the only system with auto Bolus, multiple wear options and full control from your personal iPhone, you're looking for tandems, newest pump and algorithm. Use my link to support the podcast, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox. Check it out. The episode you're about to enjoy was brought to you by Dexcom, the Dexcom g7 the same CGM that my daughter wears. You can learn more and get started today at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox,

Jocelyn 2:22
you My name is Jocelyn. I have six children, and I'm a nurse.

Scott Benner 2:27
Holy hell. You know how you must listen to the podcast

Jocelyn 2:33
a few times a week. Yeah, okay. But

Scott Benner 2:34
I mean, you start with six children, you know where we're gonna start. Everything's okay. Your parts are okay. You feel all right.

Jocelyn 2:40
Yeah, no, I'm good. I survived. How long of

Scott Benner 2:44
a time frame did you turn those six out in 10

Jocelyn 2:48
years? No kidding. Yeah, three boys, three girls.

Scott Benner 2:52
Did they come out in order? Like, boy, boy, girl, girl. Did they come out? Boy, girl, boy, how did it happen?

Jocelyn 2:57
No, it's girl. Boy, boy, boy, girl, girl, girl, boy,

Scott Benner 3:02
okay. Now, you know, my next question, are you making an army for Jesus? Are you? What are you trying to do? What are you trying to do? Exactly,

Jocelyn 3:08
no, I get that question a lot. I always wanted a big family. I was just around big families growing up. I just love that dynamic. And my husband comes from a big family, and so when I told him, You know, I think I wanted 12 when we first got married, so he knew what he was getting into, and he was mostly okay with it. I think he wanted to stop around kid four. But, you know, here we are six kids. You were like, I want more kids. Yeah, pretty much.

Scott Benner 3:36
Yep. Where do you live that you can keep six children, plus yourself, your husband, and I'm guessing, with this drive to be kind of thing, six cats and a dog and a parakeet, like, how are you keeping how? Okay, how many pets do you have?

Jocelyn 3:49
So we just have one.

Scott Benner 3:51
Is it a dog?

Jocelyn 3:52
Yes, yeah. I mean, we, in the past, we've had, you know, chickens and pigs and stuff like that. But currently, we just have a dog who's old and she's he's great, but, yeah, no, cats. I'm not a cat person. Oh,

Scott Benner 4:03
chickens and pigs. Do the kids live in the house? Yeah, they are allowed in the house. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to tell me where you live. I know, as we were, by the way, as we're setting this up before we're recording, I'm like, There's no way where you live will come up. But just in case, like, what's the community? Like, I don't like, if I don't know, I'm very baffled, as you can tell, yeah, I don't know people that have more than three children. Local to me,

Jocelyn 4:28
yeah, no. We live in the Northeast, and it's definitely a very expensive area, but I, you know, work more than full time. My husband has his own business, and so we just, I don't know, we've been doing a long time. Actually, we're on the kind of the decrease right now, because two of our kids are really kind of grown and self sufficient. So we're, it feels like four kids is nothing, you know.

Scott Benner 4:50
So you're, and I don't mean to pry, but your husband's wealthy. Is that what we're talking about here? I don't even

Jocelyn 4:55
say wealthy, because you know how it is. You get to the end of the year and you're like, we made how much? And we have how much, but we always, you know, we've done well and just kind of okay, you know, been really blessed. Yeah, you think those

Scott Benner 5:06
kids are going to college, all six of them, so, no, I think

Jocelyn 5:10
some of them are not inclined, and we will help them, like, that's what we have done with our oldest two. They're out of the house, but I definitely don't think all of them will go to college, and we definitely won't, you know, pay for all of it, that they're gonna have to ante up a little bit if it's something they really want. Good luck.

Scott Benner 5:25
Yeah, I know. So your husband came from a large family. How big

Jocelyn 5:29
he's the youngest of seven? No kidding. I'm sorry. Are you Catholic? Nope, nope. Just love kids. I know. Like just, I just wanted a bunch of kids. I loved being pregnant. I love, I love, love birth. That's what I do for work. So, yeah, I just something that I found came easily to me. Do you collect other things,

Scott Benner 5:49
like, if I came, if I came in your house, would I be like, Why do you have all these figurines or anything like that? No,

Jocelyn 5:55
no, I'm a very like minimalist. I like open spaces. I'm not a collector of pets or anything, just, just children. Interesting. That's

Scott Benner 6:03
so interesting. I mean, when you said you had six kids, I was like, Oh, the Mormons are back. But it was not what happened. No, about that, look at you. Just a regular old white lady churning out a bunch of kids over there.

Jocelyn 6:14
Yeah, it happens.

Scott Benner 6:20
Awesome. And what are the ages of the kids now? And how old are you?

Jocelyn 6:22
Oh, I'm 40, and my oldest is 20, and my youngest is 10. So that's our diabetic. Wow.

Scott Benner 6:28
Oh, look at you. Really Are there other autoimmune issues?

Jocelyn 6:33
My dad had hyperthyroidism, so, you know, he had his thyroid removed and is on Synthroid. My sister also had hyperthyroidism, and she, let's see, so she's on medication because she had, I can't remember what she had done, but she was diagnosed as a teenager. But besides that,

Scott Benner 6:53
not really, no, and you don't have any ailments or anything, nope, healthy as a horse. How about that? Then childbirth doesn't give you hyperthyroidism, that's it. No, no, no. I thought for sure you were gonna have that. I was like, Oh my God, no, wow, wow. Okay, so you were 20 when you had your first about because you're 40 now and you have a 20 year old, your youngest, who has type one is how old right now? She's 10. She's 10. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, all right. And how old was she when she was diagnosed?

Jocelyn 7:22
So she was five. So we've been doing this for this is our fifth year, one

Scott Benner 7:26
more year, and you'll have as many years with diabetes. You have kids,

Jocelyn 7:29
that's right, yes, just the same, just, but just put

Scott Benner 7:33
sixes everywhere. Yeah. What's your remembrance of the time? Do you remember how you figured it out, or what your first inclination was.

Jocelyn 7:42
So I have also been a nurse for about five years, so I had just graduated from nursing school, and, you know, kind of had learned a lot about diabetes. The funny part was, I tried to go to nursing school when, before I had my kids, like, like, what same people do go to nursing school right out of high school. I just hated the idea of hurting anybody, like poking them, like so I could not get over giving people shots or taking blood or any of that stuff. So I stopped. I had all my babies, and then I started working in a hospital as a as a tech, and I just loved it. And I thought I want to try to go back to school. So I got over my fear of needles. I, you know, took blood sugars, kind of got around that fear, went to nursing school, graduated, and then, you know, Abby was five years old, so she wasn't in school yet, but we were preparing to move down south to a different state during COVID, which is, I don't know, I got a job down south. And my husband did too. So moving across country on the drive down there, very, very long drive, she started having to pee a lot, you know, classic type one symptoms. And with all my, you know, brand new nursing knowledge, I started to think on the drive down there, I hope it's not type one, you know. And I'm like, no, no, she's gonna get a fever. She's, you know, she started throwing up, and I thought just, it's a virus. Okay, we're gonna keep going. We get down to our new house and a big, huge new city. Don't know who our doctor is going to be. New hospital. We have an awesome pool in our new house. The kids are all playing, you know, she's and she just could not get over this. What I thought was a virus. Well, what I was hoping was not type one, right? One morning must have been the beginning of July, because she was diagnosed in July. We had been there for maybe two days, and she just kept sleeping in the morning. And, you know, I'm really it's COVID. I'm trying not to take her to the hospital. I don't have any resources there. We have no friends. She hadn't had anything to eat or drink the whole day. She had like a popsicle in the morning because it was hot. And I thought, well, I've really been worrying about this for a while, and I feel like I don't want to take her to the hospital if I don't need to expose her to COVID and all these other things, but I could just go get a glucometer at the. CVS. So I went down the road, got a glucometer, you know, figured out how to poke her finger, and it was 417 so then my, you know, like, obviously, then I'm like, okay, it is what I've been afraid of. So we ended up, I took her to the Children's Hospital. And it was kind of funny, because the nurse that took us in at the, you know, the intake, and this is a children's hospital. I said, you know, I my daughter, I believe she has type one diabetes. I just checked her sugar. It was 417 she says, Well, what did she eat today? And I thought, I'm like, it doesn't matter what she ate. Nobody should have a sugar of 417 like, like, if I had said, like, she ate five ice cream cones, they would have been like, Ah, you're fine. Go

Scott Benner 10:44
home. Yeah. So, yeah.

Jocelyn 10:47
So that was kind of like, that was the beginning. She'd spent a couple days in the in the PICU, and then, you know, in the regular unit. And then, you know, we've been, you know, this is our, like, I said, our fifth year. So just been rolling since then. Geez.

Scott Benner 11:00
What makes you want to come on the podcast?

Jocelyn 11:03
Well, I thought I have kind of a unique perspective in that I am a nurse, you know, I'm like, in the hospital, Nurse got a, you know, lot of labor delivery experience, and then just, I feel like, anytime I sorry,

Scott Benner 11:15
I'm sorry. I laughed. Because you do have a lot of labor and delivery experience. I do not even being a nurse. Yeah, personal. And honestly, if you walked up on a stranger having a baby, could you keep watching YouTube with one hand and deliver the baby the other

Jocelyn 11:34
my hands at some point you put

Scott Benner 11:35
the phone on the belly while you're doing it. Then, yeah,

Jocelyn 11:40
no, but I think I have a unique perspective of being in the room with type one patients, and being a type one mom, kind of having this level of knowledge that most nurses and honestly, a lot of doctors don't have, of like how this disease is managed day to day. And you know, the kind of, I guess, distrust of like diabetes care Yeah, that diabetes experience when they go to the emergency room or, you know, into the hospital or doctor's office or anywhere where they get medical care. Do you

Scott Benner 12:09
have any feeling for why this is, you know, it's obviously not some sort of rule. I didn't do a I didn't do a survey of 10,000 nurses or anything like that, but I've been around this for a long time, seeing people's kids diagnosed. A lot of their moms or dads are nurses, and nurses either handle type one diabetes like one way or the other, but when they don't handle it well, at first it's interesting, the reaction they have to it, almost like somebody told them diabetes was one thing, and now that they see what it is, it's confusing. Does that make sense to you? The Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warm up time that's right from the time you put on the Dexcom g7 till the time you're getting readings. 30 minutes. That's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable and light. These things, in my opinion, make the Dexcom g7 a no brainer. The Dexcom g7 comes with way more than just this, up to 10 people can follow you. You can use it with type one, type two, or gestational diabetes. It's covered by all sorts of insurances and, uh, this might be the best part. It might be the best part alerts and alarms that are customizable, so that you can be alerted at the levels that make sense to you. Dexcom.com/juicebox, links in the show notes. Links at Juicebox podcast.com, to Dexcom and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. Let's talk about the tandem Moby insulin pump from today's sponsor tandem diabetes care, their newest algorithm control, iq plus technology and the new tandem Moby pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control. It's the only system with auto Bolus that helps with missed meals and preventing hyperglycemia, the only system with a dedicated sleep setting, and the only system with off or on body wear options. Tandem Moby gives you more discretion, freedom and options for how to manage your diabetes. This is their best algorithm ever, and they'd like you to check it out at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox when you get to my link, you're going to see integrations with Dexcom sensors and a ton of other information that's going to help you learn about tandems, tiny pump that's big on control tandem diabetes.com/juicebox the tandem Moby system is available for people ages two and up who want an automated delivery system to help them sleep better, wake up in range and address high blood sugars with auto bulk. Us,

Jocelyn 15:00
yeah. I think if you've done a lot of type two care, which is, you know, the bulk of it that you see in inpatient, it's hard to, like, comprehend the complete lack of insulin and, like, just the like, I think as soon as you get an idea of what this means as a nurse, you have like, a deeper understanding of like, oh, this is a lot.

Scott Benner 15:22
Yeah, I have to say, Jocelyn, you have awesome energy. Oh, really, do you not think that about yourself? I mean,

Jocelyn 15:29
I think I'm calm. I've been in a lot of really difficult situations, like personally and at work, and I just feel like I try to bring the calm. I try,

Scott Benner 15:38
did something happen to you as a child? Like, I want to know, like, I'm being if you had your first baby at 20, were you married and had a baby at 20?

Jocelyn 15:46
Okay, I've been married 22 years. Okay, so

Scott Benner 15:49
you, like, thoughtfully, got married when you were, like, 19 or 20 years old, right? I don't know

Jocelyn 15:54
if thoughtfully is the word, because, like, we were literally still babies. Like, I look at my 19 and 20 year old children, and I think either we were a lot more adulty than adults are nowadays, or we just really had to grow up quickly, because it was like, just, you know, hit the ground running and had a bunch of kids, and then had to figure out how to, like,

Scott Benner 16:14
take care of them. Yeah, but how do you get that's what I'm trying to figure out. Like, because, listen, I got married young, and you've got, like, five years on me. So like, Were you guys this, this is too personal. You'll stop me. But were you running from something like, did you and your husband, like, have like, bad upbringings? You're like, Let's go off and do this ourselves. Or were you just, like, met each other and we're like, wow, this is awesome, and got swept up in it and fell in love. And that's the thing. Like, how did it work? We were

Jocelyn 16:37
running from something like, we both came from like, I mean, I, I wouldn't say I had the warmest upbringing, like, I It's probably one of time to go into all my, like, weird issues with my mom, but I think, and she's not gonna listen because I haven't talked. But I think I wanted, I wanted warmth in my life. I wanted, like, close family connections. And so when I met my husband, it was just like, like, I felt that warmth and then wanted to just, I always wanted kids, and so I feel so blessed, yeah, to be able to have exactly what I wanted, like I literally, I have the job that I wanted, I have the family that I wanted, and so all the rest is just gravy, you know? I mean,

Scott Benner 17:14
even just going back to school to be a nurse, like, later, that's what I mean about that energy. Like you didn't just go, like, look what I did. I pushed these six kids out. I raised them. They're cool kids. Like, I'm gonna chill for a half a second. You're like, I'm gonna be a nurse. Now, you know what I mean? Like, that's like, a lot of like, you have a lot of good energy. Also, I unfairly know who you are, like, through the like, I can picture you like, I don't know. I somehow know that your husband's like, a just like a big, giant human teddy bear. Like, looks like an awesome guy. No, yes, because somehow I like, I don't normally do this, but your last name so weird, like that. I was like, Who am I talking to? So I went to the Facebook group to look, and then I couldn't find you. And I was like, but her husband appears to be here. And then the funniest thing about your husband's Facebook page is he's not even friends with you. It's awesome. It's like, it's the most guy thing I've ever seen in my life. So funny. He's got no Facebook friends. And I was like, really funny. I'm like, I'll just find her through him. And I'm like, Nope, he's not friended one person on this thing.

Jocelyn 18:17
I am his friend. I have a lot of friends, but I am his friend.

Scott Benner 18:23
He's busy working, paying for 90 people, I know. Yeah, so that's how I like I tripped through his account to yours, which is why I know what he looks like, yeah, yeah. I can envision like, two young, fresh faced people being like, hey, and he looks safe like, he looks like he could take care of it. You know what? I mean? Yeah? Oh, he does, yeah. He always takes care of it. Yeah, no. Like, if this was the Walking Dead, I'd be like, I'm gonna get on his side. Seriously,

Jocelyn 18:45
yeah, yeah, that's my vibe. He could carry us all to safety,

Scott Benner 18:49
exactly the vibe I got from him. So, yeah. So anyway, okay, so you're just looking, you were looking to build warmth and happiness around yourself, and you did it, and then you didn't stop. And then your kid gets diabetes. And then did you just take that same energy and drive and just put it into diabetes? Like, what did you like? How did you handle it? Because you have a nursing background, but not so much with type one. You're doing more labor and delivery stuff. So how does it all meld together? At the

Jocelyn 19:14
time she was diagnosed, I was in med surge nursing because it was COVID, and I just couldn't get in as a new nurse into labor and delivery. So I'm so thankful for it now, because I really, kind of got a really bigger understanding of, like, the whole of, like, hospital, you know, med, surg, nursing and and then I got to do what I love, but so no, I just kind of, when she got diagnosed, I had been suspecting it for a while. I did kind of hit the ground running when we were diagnosed, and I kind of had to, because I didn't have resources. I didn't have, you know, as COVID so even in person, meetings were really not a thing. So I was so thankful to have, like, at least a half understanding of what the disease was and what I would need to, like, what our new life. Was going to look like, but I still looking back on it now, like had so much to learn. And every year, you know, is more I gain more understanding that helps me help her more.

Scott Benner 20:10
Yeah, that's awesome. How did she handle it being diagnosed? She

Jocelyn 20:16
doesn't remember now, you know, like, I think, like, usually five are your earliest memories, so she doesn't remember what life was like before diabetes. She's very independent, like for being our baby. She is like, she does her own she uses an Omnipod, she uses her she does her own. Site changes a lot of times. By the time I'm like, have you done a site change, or it looks like you're low on insulin? She's like, I just did a site change, and she's, you know, she's really getting to be independent with that stuff. She handles it really well. I think initially it was hard, you know, the finger pokes, I think were the hardest part. And then the IVs. She is frequently incentivized. If she doesn't want to do something, or if her blood sugar's high, we have to bring it down. You're like, well, you don't want to go to the hospital, have to get an IV. She remembers that part of the hospital stay, Yeah,

Scott Benner 21:02
but you're saying day to day, she she manages herself pretty much. Are you involved with her insulin decisions or carb counting, or anything like that?

Jocelyn 21:09
I would say 5050, right now, as in, she is very independent with most things, but sometimes she likes to just check out of diabetes. And also, we have had a lot more issues over the last year or two with, I don't want to call it sneaking food, but like, she's not bolusing, yeah, and just kind of like food issues in general, just like, you know, finding lots of wrappers and stuff like that that you know that were, I think she's getting better at bolusing for it so that that part is eliminated. But I do sometimes get concerned with like, are we heading towards a food issue, you know? Like, yeah, not an eating disorder, but just kind of like disordered eating from feeling shame with eating when your sugar's high. So, yeah, that's kind of where we are with things. I mean,

Scott Benner 21:59
she's 10, right? So yeah, how do you talk about that with her? Or have you tried yet?

Jocelyn 22:04
Yeah, actually, I've met with, I can't remember her role is, but someone that was really helpful with talking about, you know, shame related to food. And I guess the frustrating part is that the best way to deal with shame is to kind of not talk about it, because it makes it so much worse. As in, like, did you eat that food? Like, I just found a chip bag, you know, like, Did you Bolus for that? But just kind of, like, treat it like anyone else, like, I guess, not like anyone else. Like my other kids walk by with the, you know, big bag of Doritos, and I'm like, don't eat all of them. We all want some or something like that. But with Abby, it's a little different, trying to, like, make sure that she's taking care of herself, because she wants to be independent, and that we're not going to see a blood sugar of 300 because, you know, she just sat there and ate and didn't Bolus for it. So I guess all that to say we try to, like, destigmatize it a little bit and just go like, Oh, hey. Do you think you know you might need to Bolus a little bit more for that, I don't even go into the, you know, the guilt anymore, and it's been helping.

Scott Benner 23:06
Yeah, it's interesting. I think about this a lot, actually, while I'm making the podcast. So, you know, I've tried to not in the beginning, the beginning of this whole thing. I just had my perspective, and I'm adding everyone else's as I go, but the number of people who would tell me how important that is, that food shaming or eating disorders are prevalent with people with type one, and you have to be careful, and it's just shaped a lot of the way that I've talked about all of this over the years, because you don't know who it's going to be or when it's going to happen. Yeah, yeah,

Jocelyn 23:41
we all choose to eat differently. Like, our families are really different. Like, I would probably cook a lot differently if I wasn't cooking for an army, you know. But, like, I just can't really picture myself, you know, making a big hunk of meat and, like, you know, two vegetables for my teenage boys that are eating us out of house at home, you know. So it's kind of this balance of, like, you know, taking care of her, teaching her to have a good relationship with food, but also, like, feeding the masses here. So yeah,

Scott Benner 24:10
oh yeah, you, I mean, you really are. I've seen people before say, Look, we all just changed, like we ate a little differently, and it was actually, I've heard people say it was good for our family, like we ate healthier or whatever. But I don't know how you pivot eight people and their eating habits and their eating styles on a dime without making them look at your daughter like she's the reason I don't blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean, exactly,

Jocelyn 24:34
exactly, and then, yeah, so I think it's just been more about like, making changes. You know, I'm like, a growth mindset kind of person, like I, you know, I don't rest very much. I just always want to be changing. Like I walk away from each shift. What could I do differently? What could I have done a little better to make that birth, or that, you know, that experience, a little better? So I, I really feel like I kind of bring the same thing to Diabetes Care and just kind of like, re evaluate every once in a while, or. I get a little frustrated, like, okay, what can I do differently? What's the problem here? And we've definitely made some good changes. Like, one of my older kids gripes about, you know, our food is that I cut out cereal a number of years ago because it's basically like eating ice cream for breakfast, and I that's judgy, but I can't get it right. No matter what I do,

Scott Benner 25:21
I just gave it up. It's hard to Bolus for, isn't it, it is, and I

Jocelyn 25:25
maybe people are better at it than me, but I have tried a lot of different kinds. And then we tried the low carb cereals, and no one likes them, and they're expensive, so it was like one of those things that was just easier for me to not do. And I guess one thing about diabetes is it gives you a picture of, like, how our bodies handle food that other people wouldn't have. And so you kind of go, Hmm, maybe that's not good to eat for breakfast.

Scott Benner 25:51
So, yeah, I want to be clear, if you have diabetes or not, there's nothing valuable about like, a box of cereal. I'm not saying that I haven't been like, oh, frosted flakes in my life. You know what? I mean, there's something like that, like, that. Like, I probably just picked the most boring cereal to for everybody, but, yeah, at the same time, like, it's hard to Bolus for. I mean, it's a huge kick of sugar, right? Often, you know, accompanied by milk, which has fat in it, and, you know, will help keep your blood sugar up later. A lot of people struggle in the morning with foot on the floor, or, you know, having lower basal overnight to try to, like, stop lows or whatever. Then they're a little void of insulin in the morning, and then they jump this on top. It's, it's really difficult, but in the end, not eating cereal is good for everybody. It's not just a diabetes thing,

Jocelyn 26:35
right? But I think it's just funny that that's one of my kids, like, frequent like, oh, remember when we used to eat cereal? It's just, it's a treat, I guess, you know, like, if we're in a hotel or something, or, you know, like it's not an everyday thing. It's just something that sometimes they get as a treat. I

Scott Benner 26:52
wonder if it's ease of use.

Jocelyn 26:54
I think that's it. Yeah, have

Scott Benner 26:56
you ever portable cereal and while you're eating it? Thought, I don't want this, but Well, and, you know, I didn't have to crack an egg, and I'm not cleaning a pan, and this is kind of like, yeah. I mean, yeah, no.

Jocelyn 27:07
I mean, I used to, and this is, this is terrible, but, like, I'm a night shift nurse, and when I got home from work for a number of years, like, go to meal before I lay down, was a beer and about three bowls of cereal, and I would just keep pouring cereal until the milk ran out. And just like, that was like, and I think about it now, I'm like, Man, how many carbs was in that before I went to sleep. And, like, it

Scott Benner 27:30
just sat you overnight. Yeah, right. Explain that though, like, 12 hour shift. Are you super hungry? Is your brain tired? Is it like a whole, like, mix of things? Yeah, I

Jocelyn 27:39
mean, and and it's a whole mix of things. I think it's just a relaxation thing. It's just like knowing that you're going to bed, like you're already kind of asking your body to sleep during the day, when most people are awake and the lights are on and, you know, so it's like just kind of that comfort, you know, probably a sugar like, just, you know, like that after Thanksgiving, feeling,

Scott Benner 27:59
I'll put myself into a food coma, and then I'll sleep pretty much. Hey, it worked, so I don't do it anymore. Did you ever pour the beer into the cereal? Just skip the step?

Jocelyn 28:08
No. But, I mean, you do definitely feel like an alcoholic when you know like someone knocks on the door and you're like, all you know, bleary eyed with a beer in your hand at 830 in the morning. So

Scott Benner 28:18
good morning. America's on. You're like, Hey, what's up? Just put that package over there. Thank you. Yeah, you want one mom has had a tough night. Go back a little bit to something you said a few minutes ago about your propensity to think over things and try to make them better. Where does that come from? Do you think? I

Jocelyn 28:40
honestly think that comes from my dad. I think he growing up like, one of his biggest words was initiative. And, you know, just like I have always loved setting a goal, maybe I don't need it, but I end up like, better than where I started. I think that's what helped me get through nursing school. Was like, I can do anything for a short time, you know, like labor, you know, like I can do anything for, you know, this long, yeah. So I kind of try to take that approach with diabetes, because I feel like sometimes it can be really, like daunting, you know, like, I remember that being one of the emotions that really struck me when I first, when Abby was first diagnosed, was thinking, this is forever. This is not, you know, like, this isn't an illness where she's going to get better or she'll just have to take a pill a day. This constant level of thinking is forever, you know.

Scott Benner 29:35
So not just like we just have to get through this, or it's just three years, or it's just six months, but it's right, yeah, it's forever and ever. No, I know, yeah, it sucks, doesn't it? No, it

Jocelyn 29:45
does. And then, you know, every year, like, we're definitely, like, in the throes of pre puberty, like with the huge insulin needs and the huge growth that she's done over the last couple of years, that's like, every couple of months, there's some new variable to. Get over. We'll figure out how to meet. Oh,

Scott Benner 30:02
yeah, that's not gonna stop for a while. I mean, I'll let you know when it stops. Like somebody said to me the other day, like, when does it get easier being a parent? I was like, I don't know. I'll let you know when it happens. Yeah, really, I have no idea diabetes is gonna be, from your perspective, I don't think it's ever that's not gonna stop, right? And for her, who knows, right? Like, her stuff's gonna change and change and change. She's gonna either go away to school or get a job, and then it's gonna change again. And I don't know that people don't settle into their life with diabetes when they're diagnosed younger, any differently than they settle into their real life. Like, 2627 28 like, in that age when people start to, like, you know what I mean, like, political Not you. You were obviously an adult when you were 15. You know, for most people like you don't really settle into yourself until you're mid to late 20s. I think,

Jocelyn 30:49
no, I agree. And I think, you know, even though we were, like, married and had kids like, I still feel like we were growing up for a long time after we were married. Oh, sure.

Scott Benner 30:58
Do you guys make up a lot of your differences, or are you very similar, your husband and yourself? No,

Jocelyn 31:04
we're very different. But you know how it is when you've been with someone for a really long time, like you kind of meet in the middle, like, whether that's spending habits or just the way that you like approach different situations, we are very much opposite. Opposites attract. And then, you know, there's that whole oldest, youngest thing. He's the youngest. I'm the oldest, you know, that kind

Scott Benner 31:22
of thing, yeah, yeah. I'm dying to know, because of the example you reach for, what did he buy that? You were like, Oh, God, what happened?

Jocelyn 31:28
Oh, well, yeah, he's, he always been big into buying cars. And, you know, we'd have a lot of discussions when we were first married about, like, oh, you know, like, we don't have a lot of money. He's gonna buy this car, but it's gonna be great, and then he can re sell it, you know, like, so done that a lot, and it got to the point where, I don't know, maybe seven or eight years ago, he just came home with a new truck, and he's like, I just skipped the fighting and bought the truck. And I was like, all right. And I was like, okay, that's where we are, all right.

Scott Benner 31:59
So you know how to be happy

Jocelyn 32:02
skip the middle.

Scott Benner 32:05
I've said that to my wife before, not about a vehicle, but I've been like, can we just skip this part and go back to the part where it's not going to be like this anymore, because it's going to happen. You know what? I mean? Yeah.

Jocelyn 32:16
Well, sometimes the fights are so predictable. You're like, Okay, I know I feel like this, and you feel like this. And so he's just, like, I just skipped it. I just bought the truck. Yep, yeah, my

Scott Benner 32:27
wife's the opposite with cars. She'll be very supportive of getting a car, and then later, like, hold it over my head. Later, like, it a little bit because, like, I own a car. Like, I don't have more than one car, but, yeah, I do switch cars probably more frequently than some people do not, like, you know, yearly, or anything like that. But I probably don't have a car more than, like, five years. And then I'll be like, Hey, I was really thinking about this. And I'm like, you know, I have some equity in my car. And I'm like, if I can, I can sell it and make some money. And, like, it'll offset the next thing. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she's always like, Oh yeah, you know, you work really hard. You should be like, she says all the things. Like, it's like a hallmark show, but kindness she gives me when I say this. And then, like, six months later, I don't know what happened, it'll be like, the most banal thing, like, you don't even I'll be like, Hey, how come we have all these, like, I don't know, loaves of bread. Do we really need all these? And she'll be like, did you really did you really need that car? And I'm like, Whoa, how long you've been

Jocelyn 33:28
sitting on that? No, it's, yeah, it's true. I'm not like, I guess I appreciate that. He just like, anticipated what would happen. And like, you know, I was so busy at the time. It was like, All right, well, whatever you you do, you, you pay for it. You know, like, Jocelyn,

Scott Benner 33:42
I have a, I mean, you've been married, I think the length of time, 20 years, right? More than 20 years. I think you come to the conclusion, like, if neither of us is have left yet, we're not going to, unless one of us, like, literally does something like, reprehensible, or I come home one day and I'm like, is that you on the news? Like, you know what I mean? Like, unless it's something like that, you're like, This is fine. I'm good with this. Yeah, yeah.

Jocelyn 34:05
No, I would, I would have found out about it by now. Like, if we don't like each other by now, you know, I think it is, you know, but we are at the point in our lives where, you know, most of our friends got married young, and then, you know, some of them we've lost track with. When you haven't heard from a couple for a while, it's 5050, on whether or not they're divorced at this point. You know, like, yeah, that's where, like, I think, I think you appreciate it's just kind of thankful for still liking each other.

Scott Benner 34:35
Listen, as we were younger and growing up, and people would get divorced, I'd be like, yeah, yeah. Kelly, be like, are you? Are you happy? They got worse? I'm like, No, not at all. I was like, but yeah, statistically speaking, we're not all going to get divorced, so the more of them that it happens, it's

Jocelyn 34:49
like, the more probability down for you. Our numbers get better. We made it. We're still here. Yeah,

Scott Benner 34:59
I think my. Wife's too stubborn, or she would have left. She she would have been like, 1015 years ago. She would have been like, you know what? That's enough of this. But instead, she's like, I'm not losing this. I think she's in a fight with me right now to see who can live longer. That's what I

Jocelyn 35:12
think is happening at the moment. Yeah, statistically, women do live longer than Oh no,

Scott Benner 35:16
I know. Yeah. If I'm 87 and she's 82 and I dropped dead, and she only lives another year. It'll be the happiest year of her life. She'll be like, I outlasted that son of a bitch.

Jocelyn 35:26
She's like, right? She's like, he did well. He had a good run, by the way. Anyway, the way

Scott Benner 35:30
you use the purchase example, I use the bread example. My bread example is absolutely real. My wife, for some reason, needs so many bread options, but then really doesn't use them. Like, I don't understand. She likes to have like, three different bread options in the house, and then a week and a half later, I'm like, all the time. I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, this breads all moldy. And she's like, Yeah, I know. Like, it's like, her one, like, weird thing. So funny. Some people have a bread drawer. We have a bread room. So what's the most challenging thing, raising six kids? Everything

Jocelyn 36:04
was pretty much just diapers and, like, homeschooling, and, you know, like I was just home with them for 10 years, and that was kind of like, I really, like, cherish that 10 years, because I've been working since then. And I love my job, I love what I do, but, you know, I think so there was that decade of like that was challenging. Just everybody was healthy, but there was just so many diapers, so many, you know, babies, and like, just the time constraints and the sleep deprivation. And then this past 10 years has been a decade of like, health struggles and mental health struggles for teenagers, and then, you know, for Abby's diagnosis, and then right after Abby's diagnosis, our oldest son had open heart surgery at the age of 15, so that was really something unexpected and just kind of meeting that need. So I think sometimes I feel like being an ambitious an ambitious person. I feel limited by like, oh, I would, you know, I would work that extra shift. I would get that, you know, like, different job that I would really love to do. And I don't want to say that I'm, like, I guess, limited by my family, but just trying to fit in all these good things and and not let you know, obviously, my first role is as a mom, and that's, like, the most important thing, but just trying to, like, feel personally fulfilled and also take care of all these kids with all their different things that they need. Do you think

Scott Benner 37:29
if there were fewer kids, would it have felt the same? Or is it not about the amount of them? It's about the responsibility? I

Jocelyn 37:37
think it's the length of time that we've been parenting that's feeling like, I mean, I think it gives us understanding, you know, like we're much different parents to our youngest kids than we were to our oldest kids, because we've learned so much and been broken by different experiences and kind of had to overcome and then would never parent the same way Again going forward. I mean, the number is definitely challenging, but as they get older and they move on, it's more like the sounds cheesy, but like being a mom is like watching your heart just walk around on the earth like and you're just kind of watching it get broken, and, you know, wanting to protect it. And they need to learn these lessons. And I almost think, and I tell my patients this, like, the babies are are really the easy part, and the teenagers are the challenge. So

Scott Benner 38:28
I can't tell you, like, I just interviewed a woman the other day who had a 16 month old, and I felt bad, but I said to her, I'm like, You know what I've learned about being a parent, you actually can never do the right thing, because no matter what you do, someone else sees it differently totally. And so you can, you know, make the best decision that you can dream up and do these things in the way that you think are, you know, the most supportive and wonderful and everything. And I think people would generally agree that, like, I'm a thoughtful parent, and yet, like, it doesn't really matter, because when you're done, it turns out one person in the group is like, I did that's not how it made me feel. And you're like, what or like, I noticed too. Sometimes, like, when you have to make difficult decisions as a parent, when you look at it retrospectively years later, sometimes the reasons you had to make the decision are forgotten, and then it's just like, Well, you did this. I'm like, No, I didn't do that. Like, I had to do that because this happened, and, like, I don't remember that part. And you're like, Oh, come on,

Jocelyn 39:27
right, well, and then we lose perspective, you know, like, well, two things are our kids, you know, are all we're raised in the same house, all, some of them are, like, a year apart, and they all remember things differently, or they don't remember things that the other one does, or they just have a completely different reaction to the same kind of parenting. Can't parent them all the same. Like, they're all such different temperaments, like six combination of the same people, they're all so different. And I love that about them, but it's definitely like, I think maybe that's what makes having six versus two or three different as I've got to figure. Out how all of them are going to handle the challenges that they're presented with. You know, also, just that a lot of parenting is just reactions, right? You know, like, you're like, okay, they did this, and now what are you going to do with this? Now, you know, like, I think, you know, think about that with, like, just having a new baby in the hospital, you know, like, okay, the baby's crying. You got to figure out what's wrong with it. You gotta, like, okay, are they hungry? Do they need to be swaddled? Are they, you know, like meeting these needs? That's your first experience with your first kid. Of like, okay, they're doing this now. What do I do? Yeah, you know. And as they get to be teenagers, it gets so much more complicated, because the needs aren't simple, and they're not physical. They're like, your presence, and then also, like, you're, well, you're gonna have to have to deal with that consequence, and so I have found that very challenging to grow into as a mom, for sure.

Scott Benner 40:47
The reason I asked is because I want to know about the impact of diabetes on the other five kids. Because I would have told you, the entire time Arden was growing up, the entire time my kids were growing up, the coal really doesn't seem that impacted by Arden's diabetes, and we spend a ton of time together, like, and Cole and I really did, like, spend a ton of time together, right? But now in present day, when we sit and talk about it, he felt like she was more important. And he's even thoughtful enough to separate the diabetes from it. Like, if he talks about it now, he'll, he'll he'll say, right to art and like, I don't mean you. I mean like, we stopped a lot for diabetes, or we did things for diabetes or whatever. And Arden will be like, Well, that wasn't my decision. And he said it's no, like, I'm not, like, I'm not blaming you for it. That's how it felt to me when I was a kid. And I would say, but Cole, like you and I would be at baseball practice, like, multiple nights a week and on the weekends, and we'd go on trips. I'm like, you and I have spent more time together than most fathers and sons spend together. But that's not the part you remember. Like, he doesn't not remember that. I want to be clear, but like, yeah, what? When you ask him about diabetes, he doesn't say, oh, you know what? It was a lot, but it was offset lovely by the time we spent together. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't feel like that. You know what I mean. So while you're as a parent, right? No, no, it's okay, because we're doing all these offsetting things, it doesn't actually get offset. Yeah, you know what I mean. So I think no matter what you do and how well intended and even how well you execute your plan, it's not gonna cover for that feeling of one of them got more attention from my parents than the other well,

Jocelyn 42:23
and then, you know, I mean, with Arden two buck, compounded by the fact that she's the baby, you know, and I definitely have that, like, oh my little, you know, like, I, I'm not gonna have any more babies. This is my, you know, like, kind of, and just coming at it with a different, like, more relaxed level than, like, you know, the things that would have really freaked me out, or I would have, like, done a lot of, like, you know, timeouts for with my first I'm like, Yeah, whatever. She'll figure it out, you know, because she's my youngest, and I realized that it's just, like, with the car purchase with my husband, like, it's not worth the struggle in the middle, I got to pick my battles, you know. Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:55
it takes you a while to figure out the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Yeah,

Jocelyn 42:59
exactly. And so, you know, Abby has the benefit of, like, being the at the bottom of that. But I think, you know, in general, like my oldest actually was huge with helping when Abby was first diagnosed. I mean, I, you know, having just moved and just to get health insurance, had to go to work the first week that Abby was home from the hospital and diagnosed. And so we would FaceTime insulin doses when the meal would come up, and I was in orientation, and we just, you know, and she's, she was 15 at the time, and, you know, like, we had, our family had no medical experience at all. So this was like, I mean, she just took it on. And she's, you know, I was so thankful for her. I think it put a lot on her, which I kind of now look back and think, I, you know, but you that's the thing. What could you have done differently, though? No, and that's the thing. Like my husband, I talk about this a lot, like, you lose perspective in the rear view mirror of the difficulties of what it was like at that time, like, you know. So we made the best with what we had. We didn't have anybody else that was gonna, like, come over the house and give her, you know, insulin. And she was, you know, she didn't have a Dexcom at that point, so we were, you know, finger pokes and guesstimating and figuring things out and and the other kids have done amazing too. I mean, I will say, like, as far as you know, if we're gonna leave her at the house with our bigger kids, they're not gonna watch her sugars. So we're really still always on duty, but we can call them and say, Can you give her a juice? Can you tell her to Bolus for two more units because she's trending high or, you know, so they're, they're good for that, but they're on call. They're not, like, actively managing,

Scott Benner 44:32
you know, it's funny, the way you put that, regarding hindsight, it almost made me feel the way I feel listening to the to social media around the fires right now in California, right where, like, there's people are like, You know what they should have done? And you know, why did they do? I'm like, you first of all, you don't know what you're talking about, right, right? But I'm certain you don't know what you're talking about, yeah. But you know, at the same time, like, it's easy to step out of a situation, see it more big picture, you're not actually feeling it. You're not having. To live through it. It's not on your ass if it goes wrong. And to say, Oh, this should have went there, and that should have went there, and you should have done this like this, and don't say that. Say this. It's super easy in hindsight, really, in the middle of it, you're doing your best, but making it up as you go along. We just shared, I mean, I'm old. I'm like, I'm gonna be 54 this summer. Oh, that's not all. Oh, well, you get to 54 and you tell me and my wife's birthday is tomorrow. Like, you know what I mean? Like, my son's gonna be 25 soon. Arden is gonna be 21 soon. And we still found ourselves telling them the other day, like, listen, we don't know what we're doing. I need you to understand. Like, I am just a well intended, reasonably intelligent person who loves you, who is getting thrown into situations every 15 minutes. And I am saying the best thing that comes to my mind. You know what I mean? Like, there's no book somewhere, and I didn't read out of it correctly. In case you're wondering, no

Jocelyn 45:56
but where your like gut reaction came from, was your experience? Was that your life taught you. So that's what I'm saying. Like with diabetes and with parenting, is like, you know, we do what we know. Like, you know, you work with, you try to do your best with what you know, and then when you know better, you do better. And that's the whole thing. Is like, Okay, the last time she ate that, you know, that sandwich, this happened, and now I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna Bolus more for it like that came from my experience. So you grow every year with diabetes and every year as a parent, and you don't get it right. And I'm sure I'm doing things wrong with Abby that I will later look back on and be like, Man, I really was kind of lazy with that, and now she's doing this, and I should have been more like I was for my first kid. And it's all perspective. Of

Scott Benner 46:37
course, it's super interesting. Everybody who gets thrown into a situation they don't understand, which is everybody would tell you later, hey, look, I did my best, you know, and I'm gonna try to, you know, I'll refocus, I'll take what I learned and I moved on. But when you judge another person, you're always like, Hey, why didn't you do it like this? You're like, Oh my God. And especially with kids, because they really do have an expectation that you know what you're doing,

Jocelyn 47:00
yeah, and you have to, I mean, that's, it's the same thing with, like, you know, being a nurse or bringing in doctors, like, you know, I think we know a lot no longer been practicing, you know, hopefully you're learning from all your different patients, and you have this, like, safe level of knowledge. But like, I don't know what's gonna happen, yeah, I don't know if, like, your baby could be born in five minutes and come out, you know, the old fashioned way, or it could, you know, come out like tomorrow or the next day, because that's how it works. You know, it's I have some expectations from my experience, but I don't know when that's gonna happen.

Scott Benner 47:29
It sounds very true, which is three, really, is, see, do you think your other kids are harboring those feelings or will talk about them later in life like they have to, right? I mean, I don't think you can mitigate them, but that's troubling just to me, because people ask me all the time, like, how can I do this thing with diabetes and not make it fall on my other kids? And I have to tell you, from my perspective, everything that happens to you changes you. Yeah, and it changes your course. You don't have to like it. You didn't have to want it, but it's here now, right? Justin, if you bought a round instead of a rectangular dining room table, like, some weird way, your life would be different. Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah, like, you know, somebody would, you know, walk into the corner of the table and hit their hip and it would be bruised for three days. Like, that would or wouldn't happen. Like, every little thing you do changes your course, and diabetes changes your course, and it does it for everybody. There's just nothing you can do about it. It changed my dog's life. Like, no kidding, like we used to be. We were back then, more attentive dog owners than we were when Arden got diagnosed. Like, that dog was probably like, hey, where the hell did those people go? Right?

Jocelyn 48:36
Yeah. Am I ever gonna get walked? Yeah, no kidding. You know what? I mean? Yeah, yeah. No. It definitely changes. I think, I think my girls, would I expect that they would have more of an effect from it, just because of, like, birth order, like my oldest kind of taking on that role, right? That she really did really well with, but just kind of having that extra burden of, like, I'm not just a teenager, but I'm also, like, caring about my little sister and managing those decisions that most kids don't have to think about, especially for another person. And then also, my fifth is a is a girl, and she is 13, and so like, the closest in age to Abby and feels, I think, more than the boys, who are kind of like independent sports and doing their own thing, more of the like, Hey, we're going to, you know, the store. Can we stop at Starbucks? And I don't say it, but I'm thinking, you know, where's our sugar at? Is this a good idea? Can Do I have time to Bolus for it, and then I'm, you know, rushing home after and more things than that, like, she, she's obviously, the lack of cereal is a huge issue.

Scott Benner 49:37
That's the whole problem in your house. It's a whole thing.

Jocelyn 49:40
It's really desperate here. Yeah. So I think she will probably say that that affected her more than anyone. Just being the closest in birth order and in the house the longest with her, do they treat her any differently? I think so. I think they're, they're all like, pretty good older siblings, like the right amount of like sibling. Bullying and messing around, and also like, hey, yeah, you know, why are you so grumpy, that kind of thing. I don't think they treat her any differently. I think there's just an extra consideration for, like, with anybody that's diabetic, like, you know what's going on with that? But no, they're, they're great siblings to her. She's very lucky on

Scott Benner 50:16
the parenting front. Do you share my like, one of my like, last parenting concerns is that I want my kids to be friendly as adults. Yeah, I don't know if I need them. Like, I mean, it would be lovely. I don't know if I need them at each other's house on Christmas morning or not. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not sure. Like, but I don't I want them to be, like, friendly and talking and connected and stuff like that. Yeah,

Jocelyn 50:39
totally. Because I, I feel like on a different level, both me, my husband, siblings are not always like that. You know, for myself, my siblings and I are separated by distance. We all live across the country. We very much enjoy being together, but, you know, we just are separated by, you know, lives and we just can't get together that often. Then my husband siblings are very much separated by like difficulties in the past, and like things that happened and things people said, and now they don't talk to each other, and I think that would break my heart. Yeah, I can't make that not happen. I mean, I tried to, like, foster some togetherness and like being close and friendly, but I think that's kind of like, once they're adults, it's outside of your control, really. I know.

Scott Benner 51:20
See, your kids are still some of them are still young. Still young, but of all the things that I miss, like, a parenting tool, that I miss is when they were younger, and you could just, like, sort of, if you needed to dominate the conversation, just go, look, listen, I know you don't know why, but it doesn't matter. We're doing this. This is why. Like, it'll help. Like, and then they do it, and things get better. And you're like, I wish I got, like, one of those a year now that they're older, like, where I could just go, no one's allowed to have their own thoughts. Just

Jocelyn 51:47
listen to me for a minute, pretend like you're listening. Yeah, I think. And that's the part about like, the babies versus teenagers and young adults and having adult kids, is that, like, that challenge of like, I can't just put you in in the crib, and make you sit still for a minute, or put you in timeout. You know, I have to, like, kind of like, tell you what I think you should do, yeah, and then these are the consequences. And then this is the big experiment. What are you going to do, and what's going to happen to you after? And it's, oh, it's a daunting task, watching it.

Scott Benner 52:15
The one thing that stuns me, I mean, I understand it, but it still throws me off is that when your parent has some level of proficiency with something and you still ignore them on that thing, like, it would be like, if you had, like, an opinion about a medical thing, and your kids are like, she doesn't know what she's talking about, you'd be like, I'm a nurse. My wife is really matter what she does, but my wife is extraordinary at what she does, right? And when something comes up in the house that literally leans into her professional strength, people are like, I don't know if she knows. And I'm like, she runs a fairly large organization. I was like, I'm like, I think she really does know, yeah. Or even sometimes I say something like, you're an idiot. I'm like, you know, a lot of people on the internet don't think that yeah, because that's not like, you know, helpful to anybody. Nobody gives a shit. You know, right, right? Yeah,

Jocelyn 53:03
yeah. It's cool to see people in their element. Like, when you're just with home, at home with them all the time, and you kind of like, see them doing something, you're like, wow, they really are good at that. Anyone

Scott Benner 53:13
who's ever said to me, I bet Arden feels so lucky that you're her dad around diabetes, I think, Oh, you don't have kids. Like, there's no there's no way anyone who's ever said that to me has children and knows that feeling. I think it's usually the people who say that are usually adults whose parents weren't very involved, yeah, because their perspective is different. They're like, God, I would have done anything to have used my parent like around my diabetes. And I, if I was being honest, if I had time, I'd respond back and go, You say that now, but you always want the thing you don't have. So, right? Yeah, that's not how it works. You don't go, Oh, I'm so lucky I had this thing. You go, oh, you know what I didn't have? And, you know, right? You

Jocelyn 53:55
always want something different. And that's where, like, we parent differently because of our experiences, you know, like, Okay, I didn't grow up with, like, a warm household, so I really want, like, you know, hella kids up in here and just kind of, really have a warm, crazy, chaotic household,

Scott Benner 54:10
yeah, well, you got it good for you, yeah, any of those kids grown to the size of your husband? No,

Jocelyn 54:15
no, I thought the boys would be bigger. They, I mean, they're all, you know, about six feet. They're all, all the boys are three, about three years apart, like, total, like, they're all there came really quickly. They're all about six feet, but not like the massive like, I can carry you to safety.

Scott Benner 54:32
Yes, for people listening who don't know what your husband looks like, imagine she just described her sons as not big. They're only six feet tall.

Jocelyn 54:40
Well, coming from where I'm coming from, and I am very quickly becoming the shortest person in this house, like all my girls are probably going to be about five seven. I mean, Abby is at 10 years old. Is five, five. Wow. So she is my girls have, and so that's another thing, like with managing diabetes, is, I know. Experience with my older girls who didn't have diabetes, that they will get to be their adult size by the time they're about 11, and then they're done. So they're, you know, the tallest kid in the class, and everybody's like, she's only that age. And you're like, yep, yep, yep, you know. And she's still in her mind, and the way she's developing is still a very normal, like, 10 year old. She's playing with dolls, she's playing with Barbie she's doing very age appropriate things, but she's my size,

Scott Benner 55:24
yeah. So do you find people treat them like they're older when that happens? Absolutely all that happened to my niece, who got tall, really young, and then everybody wanted to, like, talk to her like she was 18, yeah.

Jocelyn 55:35
And it's kind of like I even have to take a step back, or I have to remind myself that, like people who have normal sized children, or like small children. I'm like, look at that little baby just talking like that, you know? Because I am used to having really big kids. Jocelyn

Scott Benner 55:49
is like, looking at a nine year old going like, that sweet child. I can't believe it can talk.

Jocelyn 55:56
I know it's so much shorter than I am. Oh, my

Scott Benner 55:59
god, yeah. What are we not talking about that we should have, by the way, we missed anything? Yeah, I

Jocelyn 56:05
think I wanted to talk a little bit about the perspective of, like, I know when you did your I can't remember what it was called off the top of my head, but like, talking to healthcare professionals and

Scott Benner 56:15
the Grand Rounds, yeah, no, the voices were disguised. Oh, cold wind, yeah,

Jocelyn 56:22
cold wind, I was going with, like, dark horse. I don't know cold wind, so I think, I guess I just wanted to kind of, like, be some middle ground. I just was talking about, like that diabetes is so and we know this. I know we know this, but, like, diabetes is so completely different from anything else that a nurse on a floor in the emergency room comes into contact with that, I think there's this misunderstanding, and just kind of like huge knowledge gap with how diabetes manage their blood sugars, how type ones manage their blood sugars on a day to day basis, where I try to give perspective in my role and In the ways that I'm able to teach people of when someone comes in, I don't like the wording, poorly controlled or poorly managed, or especially in the context of, like, pregnant women coming in with huge insulin needs and insulin resistance at the end of pregnancy, you know, it just kind of creates this like, well, you're not doing a good job of this, because your blood sugar is such and such, we're just going to take it over from here, like, on labor and delivery. If you have two blood sugars over 140 as a type one, their policy is usually to, like, we're just going to take you off your pump and we're going to put you on an insulin drip. And it's not often, but just kind of, like trying to bridge the gap and create some understanding with, like, what a type one has to do to, like, maintain a healthy pregnancy, the level of knowledge that they've had to amass to take care of themselves, in general, in their life. And just kind of, like, coming at it from a like, hey, you've been doing a really great job. And I think, what do you think we can do to take care of you, you know, and or your baby as a team, not like, a hey, we're just gonna take over this from here. Yeah, because insulin pumps, like, you know, the systems that we have now are amazing, and I think they work so much better than an insulin drip would do. They're only checking your blood sugar every hour and then changing the dosing. So I feel like there's such a huge it's hard, you know, like I talked to a type one patient who was an adult man on a med search for the other day because I was in the room for whatever. And, you know, he was talking about how he, you know, felt like he couldn't refuse something when he came in, you know, like they wanted to put him on a different dose. And he felt like that's not right for me. I know my body, but I feel like I'm being a bad patient, or I'm, you know, refusing care. And we're just kind of talking about, like, not medical advice, but just how, like anyone should feel, like coming into completely unrelated sickness, that it's okay for you to say, I'm not going to do that. This is what works for my body. You know that I've, I've been doing this a long time. I've kind of been managing my own self. Can we work together here? Not let me just take over this for you? Right?

Scott Benner 59:08
Yeah? Because you're not going to do a good job, and then I'm going to sit here feeling bad that I let you do it and not feel well. Body wise, you're going

Jocelyn 59:18
to be scratching your heads why my blood sugar is 300 tomorrow morning, like, maybe we should change the lantern or, you know, let them do what they've been doing and work on a, you know, work on that resolution together. But I guess, also just creating an understanding for, like, how it's not that we don't want to understand as nurses and doctors. It's just like, it's not often that we come in contact with it. I agree

Scott Benner 59:43
with you. You're meeting people who you have this expectation of because of the job they have, but they don't have the expertise that they need to give you what you deserve. Honestly, like sometimes you meet people who just know what they're doing for whatever reason, right? But you run into a hospital that. The hospital place with the health people and, like, you don't expect to go in there and go, Hey, health people help me. And they go, I don't know how to do this. You're like, wait. Well, then what the hell? Right? I always think the same thing. It's like, it's like, going to get new tires, and then saying to the guy, like, you have to put the lug nuts back on. He goes, Oh, I didn't know, right? Where's your level of confidence now at this point, because that seems so obvious and elementary to the idea. And you start telling people like, I don't know, they take type ones off of, you know, off their pumps, and then they come in with a big tray of food, and they say, Okay, eat this. We'll Bolus when you're done. And they haven't checked your blood sugar for two hours. And people are like, No, you you can't do that. And then it turns into, well, that's our protocol. And then there you go, like, it's just, you're just off and running. Then they're using their type two protocol on a type one patient. You realize that's what's happening. And you go, Oh, my God, my life is in the hands of somebody who doesn't even minimally understand how I administer my insulin well.

Jocelyn 1:00:57
And that's, that's what I'm saying. It's like, I think getting to be okay with like I'm not being a bad patient. Or it's not that I'm not accepting medical care, but if I am not sitting in front of an endocrinologist who understands like my daily needs, then I have to bring that piece of the puzzle and be okay with like I'm not going to do that. Or, you know, that's not the best thing for me, and I will, you know, I will work with you, and you can give me that IV antibiotics, but I'm gonna, whatever it is, manage my sugars, you know, like, it's your body, you know, and you need to come into it with that, like, understanding of like, being okay with doing your thing. Take care of yourself, having

Scott Benner 1:01:33
said that, that series. I mean, people told stories that I was like, Oh God, really, oh for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Like, oh my God. All right. I

Jocelyn 1:01:40
think I have had really good experiences with, you know, whether you know, like school nurses and like our doctors, but you do feel like you're alone, like, and you're not alone, but you're, you're doing your thing, and you have to kind of walk into it with your own, like, little bit of the attitude, like a little chip on your shoulder, like, Okay, I have this going. I can say no, you know, like, because there's this like, power thing that happens sometimes in the hospital where patients feel like they can't say no. And I hate that. It's your body.

Scott Benner 1:02:10
Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah. I mean, imagine where you would be today if you and I wouldn't want this to happen, obviously, but if you had to go into another ER with one of your other kids, you're like, Hey, I'm here. My kid's blood sugar's 441 and if the person at the desk said, what did they eat today, I guarantee you would have react differently today than you did five years ago. Probably like, yeah,

Jocelyn 1:02:26
like, I probably would say, like, she had five ice creams. So what are you gonna do

Scott Benner 1:02:31
with that? Yeah, that's right, yeah, no, we've been eating for six days straight. We haven't stopped, right? Bowls of cereal all around. Yep, she still has type one diabetes. You know, like, your perspective has changed now. Like, back then, you were probably like, oh, that's silly. I'll just, you know, but I'll, I'll be polite, like, and I'm trying to think of those type ones in the hospital as adults that this isn't their first rodeo, and then it starts happening again, and it's just got to be so incredibly frustrating, you know, oh

Jocelyn 1:02:55
yeah, no. And I felt like that was eye opening. I think everything, like we've been talking about, like, everything changes your perspective. So like, listening to the that series and kind of hearing different people's perspectives of being in the hospital, was like, oh, man, I really want to change that. And I really do try, in my role, I'm able to help with diabetes care and education in the hospital and just come at it from like this, you know, kind of like creating understanding. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:03:18
it's a great message, honestly, and you do have to go, I hate, see, I hate when people say you have to advocate for yourself, because I don't know what that means. You know what I mean? Like, I know I know what it means, but I don't think people know what it means until you get into the situation and recognize that what it means is a lot of people in this healthcare system might not understand what's best for me, and I have to tell them, well, and

Jocelyn 1:03:38
what other medication do we? Like, there is no other medication that you adjust daily. It's like, if your heart rate was irregular and you had to every five minutes, you're like, Okay, it's going like, 112 now that's a little high. I'm gonna give myself a little bit more medicine. Just to create, to sustain life. You had to keep managing this heart medication. Nobody has that understanding. Like, maybe the ICU, a little bit, maybe Pitocin and labor and delivery, but this like level of knowledge that you've built over your life to survive is not just handed over to someone, right?

Scott Benner 1:04:10
Yeah, no, I once said to somebody, try to imagine if you had to thoughtfully breathe in and breathe out every time. That's what diabetes feels like to me. Yeah, like, every five minutes, if I just spent my life going inhale, exhale, inhale, yeah, exhale, like, that's how it sometimes. I mean, it doesn't feel like that to me anymore, but back then it did, yeah, it definitely

Jocelyn 1:04:35
does more in the beginning, and then, you know, and then you have periods where you're really aware of it, and it creates change, and that's good. And then you kind of go back to like, Okay, this is like, in the background, and we're just gonna be in the middle of sports season. And, you know,

Scott Benner 1:04:48
I know I'm with you, trust me, I've been at this a fair amount of time now, yeah,

Jocelyn 1:04:51
you have, and we've all gained from your experience. We were gonna say something nice

Scott Benner 1:04:56
at the end. I wouldn't talk to every Hold on What was that? Yeah, because the podcast. Been helpful? Totally,

Jocelyn 1:05:01
yeah, actually, a friend that is one of our good diabetes friends now told me about it at camp, and we were dropping our girls off at camp, and we had just met, and she was like, Oh, do you listen to the Juicebox? And I was like, No, what's that? And like, I, you know, dived hard, and all the episodes initially, and then have just been, you know, like always learning something. So I actually, whenever I am blessed to go into a new, newly diagnosed child or anybody at the hospital, I'm always like, Oh, by the way, not medical advice, but please, you know, well,

Scott Benner 1:05:34
thank you. Check up with this podcast. I appreciate that, because a lot of my life is spent trying to keep the podcast being a podcast, and you guys all helping. Really, honestly, I'm probably not having much impact on it at all. Like, it's everybody out there who's really helping, keeping it going. So thank you. I really, yeah, thank you. All right, well, I'm gonna let you go. I think I'm gonna call this episode tired uterus. And,

Jocelyn 1:05:58
yeah, do you know that I have heard that before, like, when I was having my last baby, it's just taken a long time, and the nurse was like, I think your uterus is just tired. That works. You got the gist happy to assume

Scott Benner 1:06:10
that at the end of the birth it was like, I'm going to come out too, because I'm afraid she's going to do this again.

Jocelyn 1:06:15
Might as well I was done.

Scott Benner 1:06:19
When did you run out of baby names. Like, be honest. Like, what kid were you just, like, I don't know, pick one like, by the third one, the fourth one. Were you like? How does like? Did that ever happen? No, I

Jocelyn 1:06:31
really honestly think if they hadn't all started to break, I would have had like, two more, you know. But I think by the time we got to our sixth, it was like, we started kind of getting into these, like, health issues where, like, Oh, they're all breaking gotta, you know, they're all falling apart. We gotta maybe limit this a little bit and kind of figure out what to

Scott Benner 1:06:50
do with these ones. I just figured you're like, you have, like, probably great baby names. And by the fourth one, you're like, I don't know you wanna call this

Jocelyn 1:06:57
one Bob. No, I still think I still see, you know, babies all the time at work. I'm like, Oh, I love that name. I would have used that if we had another one. So

Scott Benner 1:07:04
last we actually did this thing last night where we were talking about names, and my wife was like, oh, calling Cole. Like, I wanted to call you Nicholas, and dad wanted to call you Cole. And then we started talking about other names were on the list, and she started rattling them off, and he's like, those are bad names. And I was like, I know I looked at him. I said, that's why I got him off the list for you, buddy. Don't worry about it. That's so funny, but it's interesting to hear back and people say, like, I almost called you this, or like, I really want to call I have to figure out what it is. But Kelly has this really, like, awkward, like, not awkward, just different female name that she liked as a little girl, and then she wanted to call a daughter that she didn't end up calling her, and Arden, one day, said the same name, and it hadn't been saved yet without knowing that. Yeah, yeah. It was really different. Arden

Jocelyn 1:07:53
was on my list. I love that name, so good choice. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:07:55
thank you. Before you knew my daughter's name, it was on your list. Yeah, yeah,

Jocelyn 1:07:59
all my girls are a name, so I just that was definitely on my list. I loved it. Thank

Scott Benner 1:08:03
you. I appreciate that. That's awesome. I picked that one too. Yeah, all right, I'm gonna hold on one second for me. Okay, okay, thanks.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast was sponsored by the new tandem Moby system and control iq plus technology. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox check it out. Dexcom sponsored this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g7 at my link. Dexcom.com/juicebox if you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast. Private Facebook group. Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me if you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community. Check out Juicebox Podcast. Type one diabetes on Facebook. Okay, well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me. Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app. Go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, Tiktok. Oh gosh, here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group, as well as the public Facebook page. You don't want to miss, please. You not know about the private group. You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 51,000 members in it. They're active, talking about diabetes, whatever you need to know. There's a conversation happening in there right now, and I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say, hi, hey. What's up everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better, and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is wrong. Bob at wrong way. Recording, doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you, wrong way. Recording.com, you got a podcast. You want somebody to edit it. You want rob you.

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