Scott Benner 7/27/21 Scott Benner 7/27/21

#514 Sharing the Care of a T1D Child

The Psychology of Type 1

Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout, emotions surrounding diagnosis, and dealing with diabetes distress and constructive ways to prevent it from impairing one’s function. http://erikaforsyth.com

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 514 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Hey, Erica Forsyth is back. You remember Erica, she's a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has type one diabetes, actually for more than three decades. She specializes in working with people with diabetes, and their families and caregivers. Today, she and I are going to talk about a lot of interpersonal stuff, relationships, managing type one when you're married, or with a partner. What happens when one of you is a little better at it than the other? All kinds of different topics today, Erica has been on the show a number of times. So if you enjoy her, check out Episode 407-440-5479 and 473. You would have thought I would have done this in order but I didn't. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you live in California, and you'd like to hire Erica, you can do that. I'll put our contact information in the show notes at the end of the episode.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please check them out. They have a mission to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive. They have a ton of programs, you can find out all about them at touched by type one.org. Now if you love the Facebook, they're there and Instagram just the same. So Instagram, Facebook, and touched by type one.org. At that link find out about their annual conference, their dance program. They have a beautiful program where they send out information to newly diagnosed people. They call that their D box program. You can go right now and ask for a D box. Listen, it's a great organization. I speak at their events every chance I get. I'm really excited to support them. Don't forget that their programs and services are for those living with the daily reality of type one diabetes. They offer a supportive community with many interactive programs and creative resources designed to empower one to thrive with T one day. If you're interested, there are links in your show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm your comms Erica? Hi, Erica. How are you? Hi, good morning. Doing well. How are you? You're doing well even though I ghosted you last time we were supposed to record. Yes, okay. We can still be friends. I'm apologizing in front of people. So that you know, I mean, because I've been told that my apologies do not seem sincere. And so I want to make sure that I'm being sincere. I just messed up. And actually my calendar messed up. But I also know it's important not to blame other things when you're apologizing. So it's my fault.

Unknown Speaker 3:18
Honestly,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:19
I accept your apology. Thank

Scott Benner 3:20
you. It's Apple's fault. If we're being clear. We have a couple of questions here that seem to go together. This one from Katie, how do I handle disagreements between caregivers over management approaches? And she's sort of got a secondary question here that I think goes right along with it. And she says, How do I handle when one person is better at managing than the other? So that seems like a real interpersonal question, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:50
Yes, well, I think when we're thinking about caregivers, and couples, tried to co parent and co manage their child's diabetes, I would first want to take a step back and assess how is your relationship doing in general, while the diabetes could be significant, interfering and how and how you're relating as a couple? Are there? Were there other issues prior to the diagnosis? I would want to assess you know, your communication, your emotional and physical intimacy? And maybe say Is it is it appropriate before diving into how to manage the diabetes? Is it appropriate to go and maybe do some therapy or some work around your basic kind of communication skills and understanding of how you relate to one another? So that would be my first step. But if you feel like you're in a good place, as in your in your relationship with your partner, and things are going well in, in other areas of your life, then I would look at that then dive into the type One and first maybe understand I think, in your in your world to Scott, that it's just it's pretty natural for one caregiver to kind of be the primary caregiver. And that happens because as we know, it takes a lot of time and consistent work and understanding of all the nuances of how your child's blood sugar goes up and down based on food and exercise and all the small intricacies around that. So it takes time and unless both caregivers from the beginning, are equally spending the same amount of time understanding all of that it's natural for one caregiver to to understand it better.

Unknown Speaker 5:44
Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. I

Scott Benner 5:47
want to ask is this what it's making me feel like is this what would be commonly put under the heading of correlation does not imply causation? The people, people don't really like, I hear what you're saying, like you've now introduced this new thing into your life. But it's not as if we're all wrong walking around in a perfect existence. And now we have a problem. We have a lot of little problems that many of us have learned how to ignore, not necessarily deal with. And now this thing's pushed to the to the forefront. It is not ignorable, right, you can't you can't look away from yours or your child's diabetes, the way you could look away from snoring spouse, or you know, something, you know, even more, you know, impactful is that is that what you're saying here is like, you kind of got to get your ducks in a row before you can tackle this thing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:43
If you had the time, and we're able to do that, because I think if there are other underlying issues that you have either been ignoring, or you can still kind of function in that, you know, a normal, you know, quote, normal way, in a in a relationship. That's, that's one thing, right? Like, if you're, you're functioning, you're doing your work, maybe you're you're managing your children, whether you both are, you know, working in home or not are outside the house. But then yes, like this, this pace you can't ignore, you can only ignored, you know, you ignore the dishes ignored, like your responsibilities in the home. Yeah. And eventually, something will happen. But yes, you can't ignore this. But this could be this diagnosis could be the moment when you realize you know what, that we do need to deal with these other issues as well in our marriage or our relationship, so that we can then move forward together, whether that means one person is the primary caregiver of the type one or they you both are, but I would really encourage couples. For example, if they do come to work with me, we will work on the diabetes piece. But often I will encourage them to also go to either marital or relational therapy, to address kind of these other underlying issues.

Scott Benner 8:07
I'm going to say something that you might find crazy. But but that's amazing advice. And if anybody wants my opinion, go do that. But if you're not going to do it, or if you have a spouse who won't get involved, or you just say to yourself, I can't afford that. I know this is gonna sound crazy, but let's reverse engineer your, your understanding of the human mind. How do we put this into? How do we put this into a little tiny box that we can ignore? If we like, you know, I know that's wrong, but don't you think that's what's going to happen? In some cases, and we don't ever give people not you and me, but But in general, we give people great advice in the world, but it's not always followable for everybody, like how do we make it followable? For the people who don't have the time or the inclination? Who might be listening and saying, This isn't because I need to go to therapy. It's because my husband's a jerk. Like, like, you know, when you're thinking that way, like, Is there a Wait, wait, is this the wrong phase? It's like asking how to do drugs safely, although I've done an episode on that. So I guess maybe that is my question. Do you have anything? Like, are you just gonna, you can just say pass, but do you have thoughts on that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:22
Yeah, no, I think I mean, I appreciate that question. Because in reality, yes, it does take time, it does take money. It does take if you're going to therapy, and you have multiple children, you have to get there's so many you don't have to get a babysitter. There's so many things to in order to do that and prioritize your relationship and in real life that sometimes is feels impossible. And so I understand that and I get it. So if we were to say, okay, that's not a reality for, you know, this family, then I would then say okay, what's the set? What's the next best thing that we can do, I would say a couple things. I think, if one person is managing, quote better or has a better understanding of how to manage the child's diabetes, then there needs to be maybe a good agreement, you know, within your household of Okay, this person is going to manage the day to day. But at the same time, the other partner has to come to at least a basic knowledge level. And maybe that means going and listening to your pro tip series or having, you know, like, a day in a life of being the kid, the primary caregiver, to understand not only the time and energy it takes to be, you know, watching the CGM all night long and not sleeping, and dealing with the lows and the highs. Knowing that an X like a soccer practice is going to affect your child's blood sugar may be different than the soccer game, like all these small things that you get to pick up on if you are the primary caregiver. And so

Scott Benner 11:04
if I don't want to cut you off, but the pressure yes plays such a big point like the like when you're in charge of keeping someone healthy. There is a there's a low degree of pressure that doesn't go away. If you don't know what you're doing. Like if you understand it, then the pressure comes and goes situationally, but when you don't understand that it feels constantly 24 seven, like you're killing somebody. And yeah, that's not obvious to the other person who's not involved in the management. I mean, I have to say, for me, that's been the biggest leap is to get across to like when you do such a good job, but that came out wrong, but I do a really good job taking care of art and sculpture, so much so that she probably doesn't, and hopefully never will feel the full possibility of impact from diabetes. And because of that her perspective is different. My wife's perspective is different if they lived in a house where her blood sugar's were ping ponging all over the place for the last 12 years, then they'd see it differently, too. But it I maybe it's possible, I make it look easy sometimes. But it doesn't make it less impactful on me. And then you can't get that I don't want to call it respect. But you can't get that understanding from onlookers. I don't know if all that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:21
yes, yes. So you because you're doing it. So well. And and I hear your concern, saying that like you are you're doing a great job, right? And so then you don't nobody else is experiencing the side effects or the consequences of of the, you know, the roller coasters, etc. And so then people might think, or your wife might suspect, oh, it's not that hard, right. But in reality, we know that the primary caregiver experiences burnout, for sure. All of the things that we've talked about in the other episodes of distress, the burnout, the resentment of I am working hard to keep our child alive, and my partner doesn't understand how hard it is. And then that leads to resentment 100% of the time. So while it might not work in a lot of families to have this, like, equitable, an equal amount of time in terms of CO managing, there does need to be some level of understanding, which will lead to the respect and the gratitude of what it takes to do what you're doing,

Scott Benner 13:32
and the knowledge to know when not to get on what's happening. Like, I don't really know a better way to say that, like, you know what I mean, like, if I'm in charge of the checkbook, Erica and you have nothing to do with it. You don't look over my shoulder every once in a while and go, what are you doing here is like, Look, if you want to be involved in the checkbook, be involved in the checkbook. But, you know, we've been a lot, you know, we've been together a long time here, everything's fine. All the bills are paid God little savings going. I'm doing a good job. Like it's, it's, it would be like if I showed up at your office, and stood in the corner, and 15 minutes into a session said, Hey, Eric, are you sure that's the question you want to ask here? Like, you'd be like, Who are you in this situation? You don't know what's happening. It's, it's can be very difficult not to respond. Like you've been attacked, even if maybe that person wasn't attacking you. Maybe they were just like, interested or thought they had a good idea to add or something like that. But I mean, maybe it's just maybe I'm just letting too much of myself out here. But, but but you know what I mean, you can feel really, like somebody's coming after you in that situation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:32
Right? And so then I would say, okay, going back to Okay, how are you communicating as a couple? What are the what are you leading with? What is your tone? How are the questions being asked? Is that why did you Why did you Bolus this amount for that food in that kind of tone? Or is it Gosh, I'm really curious. So I know for next time, can you help me understand why you gave this amount for that food?

Scott Benner 14:55
Those those little sentences are so incredibly important in personal communication, especially amongst people who've been around each other for a long time. And because you just get the feeling like the other person knows what I mean, but they don't, it doesn't matter how long you've been together, it's a very nice way to start a conversation by saying, Hey, I was wondering if you could explain to me what just happened here, because I don't understand it. And I would like to, like you have to put yourself in a slightly, I don't know it, like, professionally speaking, if it's a dominant, and sub and sub position, but you have to be kind of in the sub position for a second, like I find, listen, I'm pretty good at talking to people. And I think that one of the ways you talk to people well is by making them feel comfortable, and letting them feel like they can get their thoughts out. And when you come at somebody, and you're very demanding, that does not ever happen that way. And so I think, even when you've known somebody for a very long time, those words that might feel like the polite words you say, for the guy at the gas station really should be used between people who know each other as well.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:04
Yes, yes, I think tone has everything to do with, you know, how we receive, deliver and receive messages. Obviously, body language, and words are important too. But tone is extremely important. And so an understanding that if the, if you're the non primary caregiver, there needs to be that level of understanding that my my partner is exhausted, because they probably aren't sleeping well at all. And they are constantly under this level of stress of what you know, trying to keep your child alive. But you aren't going to get that or you won't be able to come from that position of empathy, unless you have this basic level of knowledge and understanding. And so I think going back to that point of how can you integrate your partner into the CO management, or at least common understanding of what it means to manage the diabetes. And I think, you know, some some families that I've worked with, they will like, if one caregiver is away for the weekend, then the other person is forced to learn, right? And trial by fire, maybe the other caregivers helping via text and call, Okay, I see the arrow going this way, let's do this. But slowly allowing, you know, the other caregiver to experience what it's like, and maybe maybe the other caregiver is still the primary one, but to allow for these opportunities for both the primary caregiver to get sort of a break, and the other caregiver to experience Wow, that was really challenging to build in that empathy and understanding. The the other point around that the Yeah, so the tone, to build empathy, and understanding. I'll pause there.

Scott Benner 18:00
No, I this is, you know, because we talked before we started recording, but this is about to happen to me, like I'm gonna have my wife managed remotely for six days or so while I'm gone somewhere. And I'm reminding myself as much as I'm reminding other people, but I wonder too, like, is it folly to like to say to the person who's in that situation? Now, here's another job for you explain that to your spouse, how for them how they need to, you know, be that to make this successful? Like, maybe you should just force them to listen to this and be like, Listen, just listen to that. That's what I mean to say to you, but I don't have time. Maybe like I, because when do you run out of time, like because this isn't your only thing. Like it's funny what we just explained, as a person who was a stay at home dad for 20 years, you take out the word diabetes and put into housework. And we just had the same exact conversation, honestly, like I did things around the house that people didn't appreciate, and everyone who does the dishes, or the laundry or, you know, sweeps under the bed. You know, they understand that, you know, when when your spouse isn't sneezing at night, because there's not a big dust bunny under the bed. Nobody stops to thank you for that. They don't even know what happened. It's just it's the idea of, of stopping yourself from taking people for granted, I guess, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:24
Yes. And, and I think it goes back to get the time and the energy of you know, oftentimes caregivers will tell me like, well, it's just easier for me to do it. So I'm just gonna keep doing it. But we know that that's you can't do that forever. We also know that diabetes is going to go away. And so you're going to continue to come, you know, experienced that pattern of resentment and burnout if they're if you aren't getting any kind of support or understanding or gratitude for what you are doing. And so I mean, if you're if your partner was open to either listening to the episodes that, you know, the pro tips or the basic diabetes understanding, I know for a lot of families upon diagnosis, because when other the other caregiver either has to work or take care of the other kids. So from the get go, it is often one caregiver and the child in the hospital, and learning what it means, you know, going through all of the seminars and classes and education. And so even from, you know, day one, the one caregiver is going to know and understand more than the other because of just of circumstances and not because they're trying to be cruel. Yeah. And so, but then the then the patterns, you know, continue. So I think it's never too late to ask your your partner to say, Gosh, I'm, we're experiencing this, this cycle of, you know, you either you either criticize the way I'm doing it, but you don't really understand how to do it, or I'm feeling resentful, because you don't know how or I'm so exhausted and stressed out that I have no time to connect with my caregiver, because I just need to sleep when I can to say all those things out loud when you're not in the midst of an argument, and then ask for like, Okay, how can we not necessarily fix this, but address this, and maybe it is having some understanding, maybe it is allowing the other caregiver to experience, you know, taking the kids to the park, or the you know, with your child to diabetes to the park, having these small moments of like, wow, that was really scary. When I noticed my child was going below and I didn't have anything to, to bring it up, bring that, you know, we'd have any snacks. So all these things, allowing the caring other caregiver to experience to hopefully build in that empathy, which is what we think what you really want is like empathy, and understanding and gratitude as the primary caregiver from from experience,

Scott Benner 22:01
may I lay down just a little layer of blue collar advice here. And I know this is not going to be politically correct. But if you can't get all that done, coming as a straight guy, from my opinion, if you just said something like if you understood extended Bolus is better, I'd have more energy for sex, that probably moves most guys in the direction you want to go.

Unknown Speaker 22:24
That's, that's,

Scott Benner 22:25
that's what I do. Bottom line, bottom line, yeah, you make me a girl. That's how I attack this. I'm like, Listen, you don't what you don't understand is, and then I say, whatever, you know, floats the person's boat. On the other side. I say there'd be more of that. If there was more of this from you. I think that's good. I think that puts most guys right back in line, to be perfectly honest. And by the way, men who aren't the best advice of this whole episode? Yeah. And men who are swayed by that argument, I don't understand you at all. What do you think of that? I once drove to Delaware to have sex, you understand? I didn't live in Delaware. I was like, wait, what's gonna happen? If I come there? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 23:07
I'm on my way.

Scott Benner 23:09
We just get in the car, take a shower. Here I go, I'll be there in four. Yeah, you got to understand how to move the chess pieces around. But it is such a huge problem. like not to make light of it. But I do want to take I do want to like walk across the courtroom and take the other side for a second. If you're the person who doesn't get it. I always want to say that, you know, because I see people online are always like, my spouse doesn't understand that. And they always add, they always act like they're, it's on purpose. They don't get involved on purpose. But I wonder how many times those people aren't scared out of their minds, or like afraid to do the wrong thing?

You know what I mean? I'm also there are a lot of people who are afraid to act until they're sure. And I know that seems like the same idea. But it's not like there are some people who can't make an action until they have all the answers before they go. And now you're making this a health issue around a child, probably I'm guessing a child that this person loves a lot. And they're probably like, I don't know what to do. I mean, you're keeping her alive, I'll let me stay out of it. And then, and then the human part gets involved where you do realize this is easier not to be involved in this. And that's where it starts to go wrong, when you willfully stay out of it is different than when you stay out of it because you're afraid. There's a difference there, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:34
think. Yes. I appreciate that perspective, because I think maybe what could be helpful in that if that is the case, to sit down with your partner and say, can you help me understand why? Like, maybe you've gotten into these patterns and roles, right? But you're realizing it's not sustainable. And to say like have your partner or give your partner an opportunity to just They all have those things to say, Gosh, and I see they're scared, because I don't know how. And I'm fearful of making a mistake. And you are much better at it than I would ever be. And I don't, I don't want to try. I don't want to mess it up. And I think that would be helpful to for your, for the primary caregiver to to hear that and maybe have some empathy to have like, okay, maybe I've just done it all. And it's easier for me to do it. But you know, I'm experiencing all these side effects. But my my partner may want to may want to try, but there's fear or there's Yeah, it didn't know. And then that fear has led to Well, I just, I don't I don't want to do it. Well, now what about any any? Yeah, go ahead. And

Scott Benner 25:50
what about in a more? What's the word? What about when your partner is actually a bad actor? There's a question here, I'm not gonna attach the person's name to it. But it says, What if the other parent pretends that you don't exist will not help you or give advice without making you feel like a horrible parent that is killing their child, I guess what I'd like to know is how to get this person to help me with how they manage our son, which he seems the when he has so much resentment for me that he can't get over it or put it aside. So this sounds like a scenario where one person wants to help, does not have the tools they need. And then the other person is just is just crushing them every time they come at them. You don't know what you're doing, you're gonna kill them. Like that kind of thing. And I have to tell you, this message is not gender the way you would expect it today. So So what if you've got a bad actor in the situation? Like, what's the I mean, that's a bigger difference, like, how do you fix it? And I guess, when do you say, the rest of my relationship? I'm happy with this part. I'm not happy with I guess not even just around diabetes, like At what point you just, what's what what I want to say like, what do you When do you just accept people's flocks? So there's two questions.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:14
Yeah. And, and this question, yeah, and I understand that. So the one one parent has the understanding of how to do it. And the other parent wants to know how, but when the when this parent tries, the other, the primary caregiver, kind of shames and ridicules and B raids his other parent in terms of like, you're not, you're doing a terrible job, you're going to kill our child,

Scott Benner 27:44
is it a power? Is that a power move?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:48
It feels, I mean, from this particular question, it feels like there might be some other issues going on. In in the marriage, I'm not I can, I don't know, this scenario, I don't know this person. But it feels like if there's so much power, and there's shame, and there's. And there's obviously there's resentment here, because the one parent knows how to do it well, and is angry, it feels like there's a lot of anger to underneath this of, you don't know how to do it. And if whenever you try, you mess it up. And so it feels like there's either some, you know, on, on either felt or expressed anger or sadness, even around, not to make it all about the sadness, but it feels like there's some other underlying emotions underneath this. And I think if this happens, and I've written, I do read a lot on you know, on the, the Facebook group that these, these kinds of things happen. And if it's to the point where it's so contentious all the time of whenever one parent wants to try to help, I would highly, highly encourage, you know, marital or relational therapy, because I feel like it might be difficult to get to this to the issue of the diabetes unless there's some rebuilt like there's, there's obviously a violation of either trust or love or connection. It feels

Scott Benner 29:20
like the one person is almost gleeful that there's something to to come at the other person with, like, oh, now I've a really good reason to call them names and tell them their bad stuff. There's, I mean, do you get that vibe from that a little bit like, Oh, just it's an opportunity. Like, I'm a bad person, I'm doing bad things to my spouse. And this is a great opportunity for me to do that. Like I don't know why someone would want to do that. But if you wanted to, honestly, your don't know how to handle our kids diabetes is a great way to make somebody feel terrible. Yeah, yes. Usually, I think the way I think of them, huh? I don't think you think about people the way I do.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:05
Well, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And usually when we're lashing out, and we are shaming another person, because they aren't doing it the way we think we should do things, then I feel like there's some other some something else is underneath that

Scott Benner 30:21
Healthy People don't do that to each other. What's that? How a mentally healthy people don't do that to each other? Is that right? Or no,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:30
I would say maybe people who are necessarily struggling with this, when you are communicating in this, in our you know, with with type one, your one person is going to be fatigued, and unstressed. And so it's hard to operate and communicate and be mindful of your tone and all that. So I think acknowledging that, but not excusing certain behaviors, I think when you are at this kind of crisis moment of we cannot connect on how to manage our child's type one, to have to sit down and try to find moments when you aren't actually heated, to be able to share your experience of how you're how you're trying to manage the type one, when you're not trying to manage the type one, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 31:18
Yeah, you know, when I see that become problematic. So first of all, I'm gonna flip flop here for a second. I, I say all the time that you can't let yourself get exhausted because you do not notice it happen. And the detriments from being exhausted, are many they're varied. They go through your life, and you do not know you're doing it. Sometimes you are genuinely lashing out at people and not even aware that you're doing it. But I've always been, that's the thought I've always had in the back of my head too. Like, this isn't a conversation for now, then the problem becomes, when does that conversation? Yeah, and you know, like, and you think, oh, at the end of the day, you mean, at the end of the day, Erica, when you get in bed, and we're both reminded we're not gonna have sex with each other, because we're so pissed, because that's not a fun time to talk. And then you sit there quietly, and you're like, I'm gonna bring it up, this is a good time. And then you hear the CGM or something like that. And I get I get just finding. This isn't just around this idea. But time out time, like pause time is super important. And incredibly difficult to create.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:23
I think yes. Yeah. So, so challenging. But you, I feel like you, if you want to make changes and how you communicate and relate with your partner, then you have to make certain sacrifices and prioritize. So maybe it's okay, we're not going to carve out an hour, we're going to carve out 10 minutes, and we're gonna agree to the date and time. And then you're both prepared. And whether maybe you put your whatever you need to do to prioritize that 10 minutes or 20 minutes. And follow through on that. Because then, if you aren't making these priorities, these times are these moments to connect about the issues that are going to continue. Yeah, then the issues are going to continue. See, I think that you both need to be on the same page. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 33:14
think that's the most important thing that's been said so far, is that that you're not going to get to any of this inside of another situation. And you really are going to, like, you know how they say, you know, what do they say save the first 10% of your income bank before you pay your bills, pay yourself before you pay your bills? I think there there's something to that, like, you know, you can look at each other and go look, we're obviously arguing a lot, things aren't going well. You're yelling at me, I'm yelling at you. Maybe you're not yelling, maybe like, Look, I'm mad at you, I don't even tell you. But we we're not going to be able to do that. Now. We literally need to put on the calendar. A space and time. This is when we do it. And we sit down and just agree that you can't let anger into this moment. You can't bring your grudges in here. I'm gonna say how I feel you say how you feel. And the goal has to be for us to find middle ground. And and not to pile one issue on top. And I would think one issue at a time. Like don't go in with a list. You don't I mean? Am I wrong? Like there's times when I say things and I'm like, at some point she's gonna tell me I'm an idiot. Is this the moment?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:21
No, I think yes. Don't go into a list and stay in the emotion as best you can around what you're experiencing if I mean if you were trying to work on connection, because if you don't feel connected, it's hard to problem solve. And so, you know, I feel I feel exhausted, I feel resentful, or I feel like I doing it all by myself. And then the other person is like, Well, I I don't know how or I feel fearful or I feel like you never get them to give me a chance. If you feel like you can't get through those types of conversations, then that would be another indicator of like, maybe We need to go back to and not unlike not in cats, you know, therapy, but maybe it's like two or three, check in sessions with a being someone

Scott Benner 35:09
moderated conversations, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:11
moderating helps you communicate and helps you rephrase certain things, being mindful of your tone your butt, all those things. So I think just understanding when I'm when I'm suggesting marital therapy, it's not necessarily, you know, go and do try and fix all the things, it's just maybe going back to some a couple sessions of basic communication to help rebuild that connection and kind of rebuild that trust. Yeah, we don't you guys are in it together. Yeah.

Scott Benner 35:39
Not everybody needs to be torn down to the bad thing that happened to him when they were six and a half to get to it. Right, right. We're not, you don't need everybody to go to see doctor, it doesn't have to be Freudian psychology, I guess psychiatry is saying, right, right. Go to therapy and, and have somebody there who hears who can hear in your sentence that you're about to stirrups and stop you go, right. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:01
the objective objective listener who can help guide the conversation. And, and I think that could be really beneficial. But going back to, you know, your the first point was, you know, well, we just can't we don't do enough time to that, then maybe start smaller, start with the 10 minutes on your calendar. And then and be respectful of the time. So okay, 10 minutes is done, or whatever the time that you've allotted, and then schedule out the next time and knowing that you're not going to fix everything, that first connection, you know, that first calendered conversation,

Scott Benner 36:36
I ask you a question, that it's a start, that might not feel like it fits here, but in my mind, it does a little bit. Just generally speaking, gender broken out over gender lines? Do we have different expectations? Like, are men's general expectations of a partner different than that of a woman's expectations of a partner? And is that how a person can be doing what they feel is the best they can? And it can somehow ring hollow to the other side? Because it's not what you're not doing the thing that the other person is actually looking for? And there's no way to know that. Because you're doing the thing that if somebody did it for you, you'd be thrilled about that was convoluted, but did you understand what I meant?

Unknown Speaker 37:20
Right? Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:21
But I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't break it down by gender, I would break it down by personality by how you were raised. Maybe you're you're you're making choices and doing things by your own personal experience. And And oftentimes, we either feel like how how you were raised is the right way, or you feel like how you were raised is the wrong way. And you're going to do the opposite, right? But I feel like we often we function out of that. Society, even break it down by gender, but

Scott Benner 37:52
Well, okay, I was wrong. See, it's good. I this is why I like you, because you call me out. But so but the idea of like, I'm doing the best I can, and oh my god, I wish someone would treat me this way. And then you don't get it back. Like meaning like you're like, oh, it didn't land. You know what I mean? Like the person I was trying to help is just completely left hollow from this. I don't know what to do next. And even it's simple to say like, you can ask that person what they want. But sometimes people don't know what they want. And or sometimes they have trouble telling you what they want. It's theirs. Or should people not be should we all just live isolated, ARCA? Is that what we're learning?

Unknown Speaker 38:37
Okay, you

Scott Benner 38:38
live in our cave, and then just come out for sex day and then go back in the cave again? Is that what this should be?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:44
Oh, my gosh, that would be so sad. No, we are we are we are relational. I think we want to be we want to be acknowledged. And in that we can also acknowledge others, you know, for what, for all that least, that's been seen and done.

Scott Benner 39:00
You said something at the beginning, that I wanted to kind of just kind of end on here with this conversation if you think we're done. But you talked about like lose the loss of physical intimacy. And is that and is that an easier way to mend fences than talking? Like if you've lost a physical connection can leaping back into that or trying to fix that? Is that easier to fix than talking? I guess is my question.

Unknown Speaker 39:31
No,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:33
gosh, I think what depending on the the the couple, one, one party one partner might feel like the reason why there isn't the emotional intimacy because the physical intimacy is lacking, right. And the other partner might feel like Well, I don't want to be physically intimate because I don't feel emotionally connected with you.

Scott Benner 39:57
Well, that makes sense.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:58
And you could come to a you know This impasse right, because one person's needs aren't being met and the other then that they're not going to give the other person the other needs. So it's going back to understanding what are what are your partner's needs? And off? Maybe it is it can we need to. Some one needs to give a little. Whether the partners like holding out to feel emotionally connected before before they feel comfortable physically, or,

Scott Benner 40:27
like it didn't need to be I know, because I joke around you probably thought I met like swinging from the chandelier. But could it just be like, holding hands or like touching someone on the shoulder when you walk past them? Or just giving the other person the feeling like you're not avoiding them? Like, you don't mean like, sex, it's got to start somewhere. And because if because the stuff we're talking about, is, is not intuitive for the people for people sometimes. But like, you have to move in the right direction, or you continue to move in the wrong direction. And like me, I just feel like you have to fight upstream sometimes, and maybe just holding someone's hand or sitting next to them while they're watching television or something like that. would go a long way to making another person feel comfortable. I might be wrong. I'm just

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:11
No, no, no, you're good. I think starting Yes, starting small and we don't, if you feel like there has been zero physical intimacy, and one partner is feeling like there's no way I'm ever going to ever want to have sex with this person until we get to this spot emotionally. To go back yes to saying maybe my partner's love language is physical touch and intimacy. So how can I help bridge that that might be an easier way, as you said, just start smaller with the small touches gestures. And that might lead to both of you then feeling more open and ready to have some more emotional intimacy, conversations, communication. So I think it just depends on what knowing knowing your own, quote, love language and your partners. And then being willing one, one person often has to take the first step. I'm just

Scott Benner 42:09
saying those old touches charging those old Tom and Jerry cartoons when they had to get past the Bulldog, they throw steak over the fence. That's all I'm getting out here. And and I listen to the rest of the reality of what you just said, I don't not understand that. I know a person might not want to be intimate with somebody that they don't feel comfortable with. That obviously makes 1,000% sense. But I mean, once you're in it for a while, once you're married for 10 or 15 years, and you see things you're just like, wow, none of this is going the way I want. I mean, are you just what do you just riding it out? Like it just feels like you're just climbing higher and higher on the Titanic try not to get wet. You know, it's gonna happen eventually. So, try something. You know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:56
should try something being open to give, you know, trying some intervention, trying some gesture, to to make a change. Because as we know, we're gonna, we're not going to change, things aren't going to change

Scott Benner 43:10
stuffs not just going to magically get better.

Unknown Speaker 43:13
And

Scott Benner 43:14
even that like feeling of like, oh, I'll get mellower. As I get older, it's you'll have too much resentment at that point. And won't matter if you don't have the piss and vinegar to fight anymore. You're still not going to like the person you're looking at. Because you're going to feel like you wasted time or life or I don't know, you got to do something is how I feel about it. Like you have to try something. And, and I do think the idea that someone needs to be the not the bigger person, I believe in the intent of that phrase, but not the words of that phrase, if that makes sense. If someone has to go first, if someone's got to swallow hard and go, Alright, fine. I'll do this. Like, I'll be the one and and do it with a lot of joy not not angry, you think begrudgingly right? You can't be progressing about it. That's all I fixed

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:00
that there. But there's hope i think you know, just being being hopeful and holding on that remembering go I think if you're at the place where you feel hopeless to go back to remembering how you first met as often this is like a and I know we're wrapping up here but maybe it's your you don't when you scheduling that time together to not first address the issue at hand but to reflect on how you first met, the feelings doing you you had and the experiences you you created together to go back and remember remind yourself and your partner and and reflect together to maybe go back to the beginning could be a place to start as well to kind of reignite that sense of hope.

Scott Benner 44:47
How much value is there in being reasonable about who you who you're with to like At what point do you just say, you know, maybe this isn't what I was hoping this person was going to turn into but If I'm being honest, this is who they are, they're being really consistent. Like, at what point? Can I say I love you. I don't like this part about you, but I love you. And I'm gonna stop focusing on the thing I don't like and and see the bigger picture. Like, I don't know if that's wrong or not like I'm genuinely asking like, at what point do you not like, expect somebody to be perfect and say to yourself, there was a time when that, you know, picadillo didn't bother me. And now it's the only thing I can look at.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:29
Mm hmm. And I think yeah, if you were, if you were in that place, and trying to figure out how to come to that place of, of acceptance, embracing who your partner is loving that your partner, then maybe that's the time for you to do some own, like reflection to whether that's, you know, by yourself through journaling, reading books, therapy, to kind of get to that place of can you do that? Do you want to? And can you get to that place of, of acceptance? Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:03
I want to be clear that I'm just trying to talk through this, like, I genuinely don't think like, if it comes across, like, I think you should, you know, have a have a whiskey and water at the bedside at the, you know, at the table with the newspaper in his pipe, and it's 1950. And when he comes home, you rub his feet, put on his slippers, and then go flop on the bed till he's ready to bang on you. Like, I'm not saying that, like, I really am not trying to put that out there. Okay, like, I seriously don't think that I don't have those thoughts about relationships. I just think that it's, it's hard to see the other person's side. And sometimes it's, it's just, it's, it's difficult to, in this conversation, this kind of conversation where I'm trying to play, I'm trying to argue both sides while you and I are talking, that it I don't want people to think like, oh, he just thinks that women should you know, be barefoot and pregnant? Like, I don't feel that way. And I don't. And I don't think I didn't pick up. Yeah, I'm glad I just now I'm nervous at the end here. Because we're talking about Jesus, there's somebody out there right now is like, I'm not just gonna have sex with him to shut him up. But I'm not saying that.

Unknown Speaker 47:10
I genuinely,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:12
I think I mean, I think bottom line is that, you know, marriage or relationships, it takes work, and, and you got to be willing to do the work. And then when you integrate a chronic illness into the equation, it's going to take even more work. And I think, oftentimes, it's hard to it's hard to do the work. It just is

Scott Benner 47:38
there, there are close to 90,000 scholarly articles that come back if you google divorced and chronic illness or something like that. So this is not a new problem that you're having. I think that's important to know that, that people could feel like oh, my God, this is it. Like I was bad at being a spouse, or I picked the wrong part. If you think that most people aren't going through this, you're out of your minds, like like this. Yeah, this is everybody's life. Nobody, nobody gets away with this. They just find some people are just better at pretending I always say the happier people look more foolish they are. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:20
probably sometimes, too, but I think it's just it takes Yes. I mean, that's a very true thing of, you know, divorce within, or as a result, or a part of, you know, living with a chronic illness or having a child with chronic illness. And I think just knowing the Yes, that you're not alone, that it's, it is challenging, and it does, it takes it takes work on top of the work that you're doing to to keep your child alive. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:52
I have a very pragmatic approach to like happiness. I don't expect to be happy every day. And I even expect that there could be days that turn into weeks where nothing that I would, you know, think of is like really super exciting. And something I'm glad to be doing, you know, might happen, I might get stuck in a work cycle. It's happened to me over the last couple of weeks, like I've had to, I've had to prepare the podcast. Instead of preparing a week of it, I've had to prepare three weeks of it to cover my absence, right. And so I've been working like crazy. So I've been getting up working, going to sleep getting up working, like I've over and over and over again. And if you know, I've heard no lie, I've heard 15 hours of this podcast in the last five days, like editing and doing things and I've said, you know, learn more on the pod.com forward slash juicebox more in the last 48 hours than I've said it in like three weeks. So it's not fun work. But I also think that way about life, like I think if I live I don't know if I figure if I live 80 years and the first 15 kind of don't count cuz I don't really remember, I'm so much so you know, if I've got 60 years in there, and 20 of them are terrific, and 10 of them are pretty good, and five of them are alright, and 10 of them sucked, and five of them were terrible. When I get to the end, that's not bad to me, like, to me, that makes sense that every day is not going to be a carnival. Now, when they start happening, long stretches, obviously, that's a different problem. But I mean, I just don't, I don't have a happiness expectation, I'm happy to be happy. And there are plenty of times that I'm happy. But I'm not sad when I'm not elated. Is that healthy? Or am I fooling myself into accepting too little?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:40
Well, I think what you're saying is, you know, life life is it can be a grind sometimes. And, and accepting that and working towards it, and you're working towards something, and you're doing something that you enjoy, are passionate about, knowing that it life is going to ebb and flow. And so I think that it's having it's a realistic perspective of, there are going to be hard moments, they're going to be moments that feel just kind of ordinary, and they're gonna be moments that are great. And to accept that, you know, those seasons don't last forever. Just like, you know, most emotions don't last forever, they come and go. And I think that being able to kind of live in that. And through that is, is where you're at peace. And it takes it takes work, I'm sure you know, you've worked to get there emotionally,

Scott Benner 51:29
yeah, things can and we'll get better like judging your whole existence by the bad thing that's happening right now, in my mind is a mistake. I, I love there are people on this planet that I love more than myself. And I've had amazing interactions with them. Sometimes just days, after they've said something to me that I'd think oh, well, I'm never gonna see this person again. Or this person hates my guts, but they're just they could be also going through something and likely are, I just don't, I don't give up. Like, I just think like, this is what it is. And we just make the best of it every day, and some days will be better than others. I just want to give people hope, especially when you find yourself newly diagnosed, or you're in that situation where right now you barely understand what's going on. But your spouse really doesn't understand it. Like it, it's genuinely not gonna stay like this forever. And you might look back on this time and wonder why you were so well not wonder what you were so upset about, you'll know what you were so upset about. But you'll be you'll, you'll think, Wow, I can't believe we got out of that I'd never expected to leave that moment. But you can and

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:36
you've likely right. But when you're in it, and you're in that newly diagnosed stage and haze and shock, I mean, it's it's hard to access, or even comprehend that whatever. And that that particular stage. So that's why you need somebody

Scott Benner 52:50
to tell you challenging, that's why I said it, because you need somebody to tell you, this isn't going to be like this forever. I mean, the way I usually put it is diabetes is hard, it doesn't get easier, you just get way better at it. And that makes it feel easier. And and you You shouldn't make the you shouldn't you shouldn't worry about that distinction. Because you know, you can do hard things and you are going to do hard things and it's going to be around diabetes, if diabetes, you know, I that's going to be the hard thing that you're going to do. And you can like get some help. You can do it. It's and if you don't understand, like you said, you know, earlier Erica, like referenced like listening to some of the protests, but she's not just like butter and my bread. She really thinks that like you just need somebody Yeah, go find something that's valuable. Like to me, if you have a spouse that doesn't understand those defining diabetes episodes are digestible. They're short, and they at least give them context. And then maybe some of the things you say to them, they'll have context for because you might be using words they don't even understand. And they're just nodding along. Try not to look like an idiot, you know, you don't know. Yeah, people are complicated. Disgusting. The whole thing's a mess. Alright. Life is hard. Yeah, there you go. But it's not always hard. And it doesn't have to be this hard. Like sometimes you can you get through it or you make it better yourself. You are really kind of the master of your own domain. You know, you can I think that's a Seinfeld episode, which is about masturbation, which is not what I meant. So let's just keep moving. But you can you can be the master of of your, what am I looking for here? What's the word I want? You to future? You're out your perspective. Yeah, you have anything of all these things. You can change the way you think about stuff. I listen. It's not apples to apples, but I grew up pretty broke. You know, and my life wasn't terrific. And there are a lot of times you had to get up in the morning and just I mean, if you want my secret, which is no secret, I am eternally hopeful. Like you will never meet a person who wakes up, reset more than I do. If something goes wrong today, I will wake up tomorrow with the same enthusiasm I had before that bad thing happened. I don't see another way around it. I don't I, I don't think I could carry all that baggage. You know what I mean? So I just don't i don't walk with the weight of the world on my shoulders. I I don't believe I could do it. So I just I reset my hope I am a very hopeful person. And I wake up every day, expecting things to go well. And if they don't, it's okay. I'll try again tomorrow. That's pretty much it. But yes, it's good to healthy. Thank you. First, let's thank touched by type one, again, you can find them at touched by type one.org. You can also find them on Facebook, and Instagram. They are a wonderful organization. And all they really want is for you to check them out. Take advantage of their programs. I also want to thank Erika, and you can find out more about what she does at Erica foresight.com. That's erikforsyth.com.

There's so much music left. I'm having a hard time sitting here quietly. I'd like to take just a moment to thank you all. I know this happens frequently. But it happens frequently because of how great you guys are and how supportive you are. The podcast keeps having months that are better than the previous month. Meaning there are more people downloading and streaming the show this month and last month, more last month in the month before that had record days record weeks. For the past four weeks in a row. The podcast has grown pretty substantially. It's it's astounding actually. The reason I'm telling you is because this is 100% because of you. Absolutely. When you leave a great review, wherever you're listening, rate the show highly tell somebody about it. Tell your doctor about it. Doctors when you tell your patients, it just keeps growing and growing. And the message keeps spreading farther and farther. I am very, very, very, very grateful for how much you all put into the podcast. So thank you very much for your efforts for listening for downloading for streaming however you listen. But mostly for sharing the show. It is a really big deal. I appreciate that you're listening, and I'll be back very soon with another episode.

#513 Break in the Clouds

Sarah is a young adult living with type 1 diabetes. She is here today to share her story and talk about anexiety.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 513 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is called breaking the clouds. And my guest is Sarah. Now, I lost the first four minutes of this episode. I'm sorry, I don't know how it happened. But let me give you the quick overview. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Scott. So you've type one diabetes. Yeah. How old are you? I'm in college. Okay, that's pretty much it. You'll be able to enjoy the rest of the episode now. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin.

I'd like to remind you that if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip for the defining diabetes series, you can look at diabetes pro tip com. They're also available through Juicebox Podcast COMM And right there in your podcast player. Alright, little more business. And then we get right to Sarah.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Find out more about the Omni pod dash, and all of the Omni pod products at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. later in the show, I'm going to tell you about the Omni pod promise. The show is also sponsored today. By the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. I have never used a more accurate meter. I have never held a more comfortable meter. It is wonderful Contour. Next One comm forward slash juice box. I clicked on the wrong button just now. And cuts are off for everybody listening. So this is gonna feel like a really awkward edit. But is there this question already? She started to answer and I messed up. So hey, Sarah, do you think either of your parents had anxiety?

Sarah 2:21
I think that my dad might have had a little anxiety. In the same sense I do. He has what my mom calls like white coats, white coat syndrome, where he gets really nervous to go to doctors get a flu shot, he just is not until all that. So the fact that, Oh, your child was just diagnosed with Type One Diabetes, and you're gonna have to give her insulin shots every day, every day, you're gonna have to check her blood sugar with this little poker thing. And I think he just kind of shut down after that. Whereas my mom was more like the champion for me. She wanted to put me into clubs and get out. Sir, yeah. Oh, so it's interesting that they were both kind of on opposite ends of that?

Scott Benner 3:09
Well, you know, it's interesting, you said white coat syndrome, actually, because that's a very real thing. But it's got a finite definition, but I think of it as a little larger around diabetes. So the real definition of it is, it's like it's like a form of hypertension. So people have like a normal blood pressure. And then they go into a clinical setting and have their blood pressure checked. And it's crazy high. But it's not in the rest of their life. As far as anyone can tell. They just they see the white coat, they get nervous. Maybe it's nervous about being around a doctor or that you're about to be tested. You don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know what happens to people. But I always, in my mind, expand that around diabetes to think about, you know, you see so many people, or I talked to so many people are so confident about their diabetes, and they know what they're doing. And they're afraid to tell their doctor that they change their Basal rate, or they're afraid. They're afraid the doctors like everything looks great, you know, and they're thinking it's not I missed all my Bolus, but I corrected it. So you can't see it here. You know, and they won't tell them and I think of that as more of like the diabetes white coat, but it's very interesting. Your dad said nervous guy.

Sarah 4:20
Yeah, so and it's it's lovable about him. He definitely wants to be as helpful as he can. But like not having any diabetes in my family. It definitely was a big adjustment. And I'm the same way as my dad in the sense that we really hate change. So I'm glad that I was in a way I'm, I'm lucky that I was young diagnosed with diabetes, so I didn't have to deal with that.

Scott Benner 4:46
So you don't in your mind Connect anxiety and diabetes. You don't see it as I have anxiety because of my diabetes. You just didn't you have these two separate things.

Sarah 4:58
Yes. But the Diabetes definitely doesn't help my anxiety sometimes, like, for me, I'll get. I've been a lot better recently. Like, it's kind of crazy that my anxiety has gotten better during a pandemic. But it's the truth, I've been able to manage my diabetes even better over this year. Whereas my anxiety would, it would make me so overwhelmed that it got to the point where I was checking my number, maybe twice a day. This was before my CGM. This was when I was still using a manual checker. What are they called? Sorry? Oh, yes, sorry. I would check when I woke up and kind of after I did my homework and was about to go to bed. And that was the point where I was in my lowest with anxiety. And I would say I kind of suffered with a little bit of depression as well, without putting a name to it. In high school. It was, it was really interesting, because I kind of had that diabetes, white coat syndrome, where I was feeling kind of ashamed to go see my endocrinologist every three months, because I got that anxiety that, oh, my appointments coming up, I need to be on top of my diabetes were and it just, it was at the point where I just did not put that effort into my diabetes management. So I would feel so bad about myself, because my agencies were reflecting that my agencies were pretty high for my age, and for my age, and it was something that I was just ashamed of, and it was just really hard.

Scott Benner 6:57
Does the does the anxiety breed procrastination, because if you procrastinate, you don't have to deal with a thing that makes you anxious. But that doesn't make you anxious.

Sarah 7:13
For me, it's kind of interesting. I pride myself in being a really good student. So being in college, and I would prioritize schoolwork over my diabetes, if that makes sense. Like I would avoid the pressure of the diabetes, anxiety and deal with the anxiety I had over college. Which was not a great idea. But it was something that I did to cope, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 7:43
You just felt like you had enough bandwidth for one of these things. And you chose school? Yes. What would happen when you ignored your diabetes, you're just talking about higher blood sugars, but you weren't checking anyway. So you wouldn't know if they were high or not. Right?

Sarah 7:55
Right. So it was kind of scary, actually, my numbers would be like, when I got around to checking them, my numbers would be, I'll just throw out a number, it would they would be in the three hundreds, low, three hundreds. And I wouldn't feel that. And that's when I realized, like, I used to be able to feel when my numbers were going high. And I used to be able to feel when they were going low. But it got to the point where I kind of just felt the same all day. If I was 110 or 310.

Scott Benner 8:26
So did you I'm sorry, did you used to play that game when you were younger? Like I feel myself getting higher? I'll give myself some insulin.

Sarah 8:33
I would check my numbers. And then I would be Oh, I was right. And then I kind of got that confidence. Like, Oh, I know I'm low right now. Because I'm feel shaky. I feel like a headache. And I would check my numbers back then. And then when I got more independent with diabetes, when I didn't have to call my parents every day from the clinic. I would be like, oh, I'll just skip checking my number at lunch because I feel fine. I don't feel low. I don't feel high. But what happened was, my numbers would steadily be high. And you do it was pretty bad.

Scott Benner 9:08
Yeah, you didn't recognize that your body had lost the ability to feel the difference anymore. Yeah,

Sarah 9:14
I can still feel when I'm low, for some reason, but I think my body just got used to the higher blood sugars, which is scary. It's

Scott Benner 9:25
what it does. Your body is trying its best to adapt and keep you alive as long as it can. Really is what it's trying for. So something starts going wrong, and it does its best to keep you alive. Whether it's you cut your leg and don't touch it and you know, it tries to clot you know, it's still gonna get infected, right, but right, it's gonna try to buy you another hour, a minute, another day for you to figure out how to save yourself. And it's cool. Sounds like you figured it out.

Sarah 9:51
Yeah, I'm so glad that I finally got the CGM because that was another thing. I was anxious to get a CGM because I was feeling like Oh, I'll just be this robot person with a insulin pump and a stain on my arm and people are gonna think that I'm like, no one's gonna think I'm weird. It was like such silly thoughts of anxiety, but that's what it does to you. It makes you feel just so low, I guess. And so now that I feel pride in having diabetes, and that I can teach people about it, and I'm an anti so I toe I even showed the kids that I nanny my little robot machine. I call it a robot machine because they think it's the coolest thing that Miss Sarah has this cool button on her arm and this cool little robot machine that she keeps in her pocket? And it's made me feel a lot better about that. And I'm so glad that I have the CGM. No, because I can check my number and make it kind of fun for people around me too.

Scott Benner 10:56
I'm glad I'm glad for you as well. But I have a question. So you said you had a lot of like worries like, Oh, I'm gonna look like you know, a machine. Bla bla bla. Yeah. Did you ever worry, my blood sugar's really high? I'm gonna kill myself.

Sarah 11:08
No, and that interesting. It's, it's, it's scary to think, think about because I wouldn't care if my number was high. I would just be like, okay, I just have to put some insulin in and I'll go to bed. Like I wasn't taking care of myself in that way. So it was really bad. Just

Scott Benner 11:27
I don't mean you specifically. But I just think it's incredibly interesting how our minds work. There. Yeah. You know, you're like, well, I don't want this thing on me that is going to be a large problem. Yeah, not having it might be causing me to, you know, have significant health concerns and pass earlier than I should or need to. And that's not even in an anxious person that your anxiety didn't train you on that idea and make you worry about that. I find that fascinating.

Sarah 11:57
It really is. And I had plenty of arguments with my mom about it, because she had wanted me to get it since I was first available to have a CGM. And I just was so stubborn and just worried about that, instead of the real problem of managing my diabetes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:14
How long? How many years? Do you think you were in that space where you weren't really managing? Well, and you're a once you said was high, but you didn't put a number on it. But

Sarah 12:24
oh, so it got to about it was like in the nines, okay, for about a year. And I was doing the I wasn't really managing for about two years, at the end of high school in the beginning of college,

Scott Benner 12:37
when you kind of translated away from your translate is not the right word. When you what's the word I want. transitioned? Oh, my God, sorry, you couldn't think of a word earlier. And now. So when you kind of transitioned away from your family management, and into that later, high school college time, so you maybe only had maybe two or three years in there, where you just weren't really on top of it? Did they think you were like, didn't you? Yeah.

Sarah 13:03
So I would go, I started going to my endocrinologist appointments by myself. So that was an easy way out for me to be like, Oh, yeah, my agency was good. I'm Shannon, who's my nurse practitioner, she was always so helpful with me. But I would just kind of it was kind of like in one ear out the other for a while, I kind of just avoided the change, because I didn't think that I could manage it well, but it's not the truth. Everybody can manage it. It's just the fact of motivating yourself to do it,

Scott Benner 13:45
I believe. Let me ask you, did you feel like you couldn't do it without your parents, but you were supposed to do it without them.

Sarah 13:52
I don't know if it was that I couldn't do it, necessarily. But it was just the change of going from my mom and dad over my shoulder all day, to being independent and having to not having to manage it by myself. But I kind of chose to because I was just tired of it, I guess. And it felt like it honestly felt kind of like a break from diabetes. I think that's where it comes from is like I was just so overwhelmed with everything a normal high schooler goes through, and then having diabetes. On top of that I was just like, ready for kind of an escape from it.

Scott Benner 14:29
I have to tell you that where I grew up, we call this we didn't have a name for it. But it was something that we recognized about girls who went to Catholic school their whole lives. Like they would graduate from high school and do something drastic, right. I mean, they'd start they cut their hair oddly, or data guy they would never date. Or, you know, some girls became really promiscuous. It's just like, which I don't even like that word because I don't think of it as that. That I just mean they just like, Sarah, what I mean is sort of banging a lot is what I'm saying I don't have a judgment about it like, like what it means, right? But they would just break from whatever. I always thought of it as they were being forced to stay in a cocoon. Mm hmm. And so that they didn't get let out slowly. It was just like, Hey, boys, I'm here. You don't mean like it just all at once kind of a thing and a run towards whatever wasn't their norm. And I wonder if you know, you're you talked about school being important to you. You sound like you live in the Virginia ish area. So it sounds like you're you probably have a you're probably like a real firm respect for your parents not wanting to let them down that whole thing? I'm about right about that, right?

Sarah 15:49
Absolutely. Yes, I'm the first person actually in my family to go to college. Well, so I think that's another factor of that I really want to get this degree and make myself proud a my parents. So I think I was very focused on that. And I just loved that kind of be my priority.

Scott Benner 16:09
And I wonder if the doing things like that, as you're growing up, I'm not talking about everybody, not just you. But I wonder if the doing things as you're growing up. Because you're supposed to, instead of because you want to write doesn't leave you with that feeling of I have to get away from this. And the very first minute, you have the opportunity, you escape it somehow. And it sounds to me, like your drive to be a good student, you had more stressors to do that than you did to take care of your diabetes. So you just, that's the one you chose. Right?

Sarah 16:43
So put the diabetes on the back burner.

Scott Benner 16:46
And you're you're a good student too, right? So it makes it easier, like you can gravitate towards the thing you know, you're going to succeed at when you run towards one of them. Exactly. I don't know if I'm right about that. I could be 100% wrong. But it's why. While we've been raising our children, we've tried really, really hard to mix what we want and hope for them with who they are. Instead of just saying, This is what you're supposed to do do this. And it's hard as a parent sometimes when you're like, Oh, I really do wish this is the path they were on. But it's not right for them. I shouldn't force them onto that path. You know, but but you know, good news, you figured it out, right? Well, yeah, what put what pushed you over the edge? What got you thinking about it differently?

Sarah 17:38
Um, honestly, I was just one day, I was like, wait, I don't want to die when I'm like 50 or 40s. You know, like, I don't want to let diabetes control me anymore. I was so scared and anxious for a long time that, well, diabetes, it's different every single day, what is the point of trying to fix my numbers, trying to adjust my bezels and trying to get the CGM to see how my trends are going. And one day, I was just like, Okay, this is enough. I am going to college to get a degree to have a career. But I'm not taking care of taking care of my health. What's the point of like, one or the other? I mean, I need to do both. I think it was just like, one day, I just was like, This isn't healthy, and I need to be healthy. And that's just kind of a Yeah,

Scott Benner 18:36
yeah. And the diabetes sounds like it. It impacted your goal. Like it finally was a prohibitive thing to you. Because you had the conscious thought, why am I planning for a future that I can't have? Right, right, I need to make sure my health is there so that this future I'm putting together for myself is isn't full of health issues, or maybe shorter that I that I want it to be? That's really Yeah, really interesting that you came to it so quickly. Did you have a like, if you feel like you still have some depression, or is it just the, the anxiety now?

Sarah 19:13
Um, I think it comes and goes, it's not major anymore. I think for about a year and a half. I was really low at a low point. But I was functioning like I had high functioning anxiety and depression. And I'm blessed to be able to see a therapist and I'm blessed to be able to have a consistent job that keeps me out of that dark place and having a therapist i think i My opinion is everyone with diabetes should seek a therapist, because it is helped me extremely like I can't even put it into words because I felt for so long, like a burden on my parents financially. Because diabetes is not cheap. It's an expensive disease. That's another part of it becoming independent, and paying for my CGM myself, and deciding to take my diabetes care into my own hands, has helped me realize that it's just something that I can make it I can get out of this dark place. And I can manage my diabetes the way I want to.

Scott Benner 20:25
That's cool. It even sounds like the idea of taking over financial responsibility alleviates you from the strain of feeling like you're stressing your parents financially. And so that's valuable for you. I was just trying to decide like Where did you find that like, spot a sunshine and a cloudy day where you could like stop and think I need to do better with my blood sugar's because I want to live a full life like you just got it you just got lucky, right? You had a you had a moment where it all just man's.

Sarah 20:58
So honestly, that we're in a global pandemic right now. But it is helps me figure out what I want to do. So for so long, I wanted to be a teacher, I still do want to be a teacher. But that that kind of sunlight that you're talking about is when I figured out, hey, why can't I teach about diabetes? Why can't I go that route of it. So I've focused on becoming a diabetes educator. And that's something that I've had a newfound passion for this year. And I think that's another part of it. Because I'm really excited about that. And because of struggling with anxiety and some depression about in my life, and it kind of regards diabetes, I think that I'll have a really good point for people to help them.

Scott Benner 21:51
Yeah, I bet you will. That's excellent. Well, cool. You're doing great. Did you find that having access to your blood sugars more regularly through a continuous glucose monitor? That changed your ability to manage? Like, what? What would you tell me your agency is now?

Sarah 22:12
Oh, my last agency was it was eight point something. So we're slowly coming away getting down. Yes. And I've been able to, I have a freestyle libri. And I love it. I can see on my app, and I scan it with my phone every day. And it's just pretty cool to like see it in the green, it has like a green graph. And when you go low, it goes red. And when you go high, it goes orange, like you know, and it's just pretty cool to visibly see my graphs everyday. Because then I have been able to focus on a specific time of day where like, I was waking up with really high blood sugars in the morning. And so like researching that and finding out about like the morning phenomenon where you're sometimes but people's blood sugar spike in the morning, like when they wake up. That has been really, it's kind of fun for me to be watching my numbers throughout the day. And that's actually really helped my anxiety to be able to get like a C as a whole day instead of thinking like, Oh, my numbers high right now. Let me go big, like think about it for hours, like oh, my numbers super, super high. What do I do? What do I do and being able to see it go down steadily on a graph has helped me I don't know if that makes sense. It makes it

Scott Benner 23:38
has really helped. It makes it aspirational. It makes it something that you feel like you can affect because you can see cause and effect. You can see, you know, I did this and then this happened I could do more next time or I could do it sooner, you know, you start really figuring out how to use the insulin because Sarah, that's really where you're at. Now, what's interesting is you're talking you're basically in year one of diabetes, right? It's crazy. It's not it happens to a lot of people. It really does. I've spoken to so many people who figure these things out at all different times of their life with diabetes. I'll tell you, I spoke with a woman once who was a mother. And she was a single mom, she had a bunch of kids. She was in her late 30s. And she said that the podcast helped her figure out that you know what was going on, but she had had diabetes, and she was like 16 Wow. And she had never fundamentally understood it. And this is where you are. It's like you just got diagnosed and someone explained it to you correctly. And you're starting to figure it out. How do you listen to the show?

Sarah 24:48
Yeah, so I first found your show by accident on Spotify. Over the summer, so I would say maybe like May or June is when I first listened and I was scrolling Cuz you have so many episodes, and it was like, Oh my gosh, where Why have I never heard of this before. So I really like took a deep dive into your show and listen to like a lot of podcasts about people who are about my age and with anxiety or like depression episodes especially. And it really helped me figure out like, oh, there's other people that struggle with this. And I can change this. And it's another interesting thing is I have two close friends that have type one diabetes, we met in high school, in the clinic in the nurse's office. And we've become really close friends because of diabetes. But it was almost like I had more pressure on me to manage better, because they would always tell me how great they're doing with diabetes. And I was kind of sitting there like, Oh, my numbers been in the two hundreds all day, but I wouldn't say that I just kind of felt that secret shame.

Scott Benner 25:58
Yeah. So you're, you're illuminating something that I've long believed, is that there's always been sort of this vein in diabetes in the diabetes space, like you don't talk about doing well, because it makes other people feel bad in the exact same way that you just explained. I've always thought, why don't we talk about doing well, and show somebody how to do well, at the same time, right? Because if those people would have said to you, hey, my blood sugar is 89. What's yours? And you said, 200? And they said, Oh, that's okay, here's the super easy secret how to fix that. You would have been like, Oh, cool. Thanks. And that would have been the end of it, except they didn't know why they were doing better than you. And by the way, you were a little kid, you might have had a too much. Or they might add 160 blood sugar, and you were like, Oh, my god, they're killing it. And you know, maybe they really weren't. So it's all perspective. But I understand that feeling of like seeing somebody do better than you and just shutting down. Because it's embarrassing to say, What's going on with you. But I think, in my opinion, unless you found them already, you're ready to jump to Episode 210. And listen to the pro tip series. Okay, and that's gonna help you figure out how to use your insulin better, I would honestly tell you, if you listen through the pro tip episodes, I would guess you're a once you would be in the sixes in like three or four months? Wow, I think I think it could I think you just don't fundamentally yet know how to manage your insulin.

Sarah 27:29
Right. And I think for a while not really understanding exactly what my disease was, was hard for me because being diagnosed so young, it kind of was like, managed for me for so long. And like we've been talking about the new independence of diabetes, and I'm kind of on I'm starting over basically with management.

Scott Benner 27:52
Okay. Yeah. No, I think that, I mean, it doesn't have to be difficult. But it is if you don't have the tools, and the tools, the tools or ideas, right, their concepts. And I'm talking to you now for 40 minutes, you're a bright person, you're motivated. There's no reason why you couldn't take these easy to use ideas and put them into practice. And I could even if you want, I'll walk through a couple of them with you right now. I honestly do, would you Are you up for that? or? Yeah, that'd be awesome. Cool. Okay, so Sarah, here we go. First of all, if your Basal insulin isn't right.

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Pure Basal insulin isn't right. Everything else isn't going to work. Okay. And by right I mean, away from food away from other influencers? Is your Basal insulin holding your blood sugar steady, at a number near 90? Is it.

Sarah 33:06
Um, I recently changed it and we're seeing that it's come down a lot. It's not around 90, but it's definitely lower than it used to be. Okay,

Scott Benner 33:15
so let's just say I don't know where it is now. But let's say it's at 150. And you're thinking, Oh, that's great, because I used to find stability at 200. So that's right, you're right. But more basil, like keep moving your basil up until it holds you stable and steady at a number that you're happy with. Okay? For me, I mean, we're shooting for like 85 with my daughter. But, you know, let's say you could just try for 100 for now. But the point is, is that if your basil is well dialed in, if you understand how to Pre-Bolus your meals, and you're pretty good at counting your carbs, or more accurately understanding the impact that carbs have on you, you're going to have an A one C in the sexes, and you're not going to have a lot of lows, and you're not going to spike high. And so that's sort of the next thing right? So first is Basal. The second is you have to Pre-Bolus your meal, so do you Pre-Bolus your meals.

Sarah 34:17
I tend to Bolus like as I'm sitting down with my food.

Scott Benner 34:21
Don't worry, I already knew that when you told me right one, say so. So now the next thing to do is you get your basil right. And then you learn your Pre-Bolus time. And you can do that easily by getting stable somewhere away from food like a few hours removed from food or insulin. Find yourself stable anywhere so you're stable 250 put in a Bolus that you think will move you from 150 to 90 and see how long it takes for that Bolus to begin working that amount of time is about your Pre-Bolus time. And now let's say that ends up being 15 minutes. Now you start Bolus in your meals, 15 minutes before you eat them. that stops the big spike, right? And it also keeps you from getting low after meals, because I'm also going to guess that you get low after you eat and have to retreat with food and then get high again, does that happen?

Sarah 35:17
It happens sometimes. But actually, what tends to happen is I'll kind of stay the same blood sugar. Ah,

Scott Benner 35:25
so you're going up and staying up. So you're not using enough insulin. And you need to pre write so

Sarah 35:34
and so we're changing that we're trying to insulin sensitivity is been a struggle for me

Scott Benner 35:41
the idea of how far a unit moves your blood sugar. Okay, well, so if your basil is wrong, it's going to be hard to figure that out. So yeah, imagine if the Basal insulin, I'm going to make up numbers here. But imagine your Basal insulin is at a unit an hour, just a nice round number. And it really should be, I don't know, a unit and a quarter an hour. So that means that every hour that you're awake, your Basal insulin is deficient by a quarter. So every four hours, you're missing a unit, or four 812 1624, you're missing six, is that right? six units of basil a day. And so if you had that insulin in your basil, your blood sugar would be lower. And it would be easier to impact a blood sugar with a correction. So saying that, you know, your insulin sensitivity is a unit for 50 points, but your basil is off by 20 or 40%. That's not accurate. So it's basil first, then Pre-Bolus. Then really understanding your meals and your food. And by that I just mean really having a firm grasp of the glycemic load and glycemic index of foods meaning that 10 carbs worth of watermelon is not going to move your blood sugar as far or need as much insulin as 10 carbs of white rice. Right, right. And once you have that down, and you can start making better decisions about your meals. Those are the three those are the cornerstones to me. Of course, if there was one more I would actually have a cornerstone, but let's triangle stones. Those are the three ideas, Basil Pre-Bolus really getting the amount of insulin you need for your meal down after that you branch off into what protein and fat due to like, later rises after you've eaten and understanding stuff like that. But honestly, that's that's the base of it right there. In my opinion. Does that all make sense to you?

Sarah 37:48
That's great. And I mean, it's something that is definitely going to take time. And I know it's not easy. It's easier said than done. But I'm very hopeful. I agree.

Scott Benner 38:04
And I don't agree. I okay. So what I'll say is, if you came here today, and said to me, hey, Scott, here's my libri controller and my pump. About four hours from now I could have your blood sugar stable at 85. And then we'd know your basil was right. And then we could figure out your Pre-Bolus and move on. It's it's hard because you don't have all the tools like the knowledge and I mean knowledge when I say tools to do the thing. So it seems like every idea is just the it probably feels like you're just throwing darts with your eyes closed, right? Like you're guessing like maybe this is where I turned up. It tells me this your basil profile? Is it one basil insulin all day? Or do you have a whole bunch of different segments

Sarah 38:53
I have on my pump, it's it goes by like, few hours at a time is a different basil. So like the morning is different than like lunchtime, and then the afternoon and then like dinnertime and then overnight.

Scott Benner 39:08
So I would tell you to consider that it's possible that because these all these ideas are kind of mismatched, that you're creating high and low segments during the day thinking that they're organic, that they're just happening, and that you're trying to move the basil around to stop them. So you have a feeling like I always get low between two and four in the afternoon. So we'll turn my basil down. And what I'll tell you is that the first time of any 24 hour period that your basil is wrong, if it's too weak, you're going to get higher later. Eventually you're going to Bolus at that high number which is going to make you lower later. If you get in the same pattern over and over again. You can fool yourself into believing I'm always low at nine NPM when the truth is, you're using too much insulin for your dinner at 6pm. And I'm making stuff up now. But yeah, you know, like, that's the idea. So that's why I'm saying, Basil Pre-Bolus. So the basil keeps things stable, the Pre-Bolus stops the spikes, not having the spikes stops the corrections. When you stop the corrections all the time, you're stopping insulin from being active once the food's out of your system. Now you're not having lows, etc, or you're using enough insulin at your meals, which is stopping a high, you know, and now you're sitting higher than you want to be forever waiting for it to come down. And the truth is, if a high blood sugar comes down on its own three, and four and five hours later, that could mean your basil is too strong at that point. So it's, it's it. I know, it seems super complicated, but I would tell you, seriously, try the pro tip episodes, I bet you they will help you. And I want you to let me know if they don't.

Sarah 40:59
Right. Yeah, that's it sounds really great. Cool. That's excellent.

Scott Benner 41:02
Well, tell me a little bit about your plans. After college, so what do you have to do to become a diabetes educator.

Sarah 41:11
So I'm not sure if it's different for different states, but at least in Virginia, there's a few different routes that I can take, I can become just a nurse straight up nurse, I can become a nutritionist, or a dietitian, or even an optometrist to get into an exam to sit for an exam to become a certified diabetes educator. So I'm still in the process of deciding which way I want to go with that, because right now, my program is teaching. And I'm going to graduate with my associates degree in the spring semester. So I'm focused on finishing that first. But fortunately, for me, a lot of the classes that I've already taken are like prerequisites for the nursing program. So that's kind of where I'm leaning towards

Scott Benner 42:08
nice. Do you like being around people and working with people? I love it. That's a good spot for you then. Yeah, there's some people try to become nurses. And they're not people, people, persons persons, people's people, persons. What is the What do you you're a people, person, people person, I'm not a people person.

Sarah 42:26
But at the same time, I'm kind of an introverted person, whereas I like my time to recharge. So we'll see how it goes. Being a nanny is is interesting. But you really got to be able to work.

Scott Benner 42:43
Yeah. Okay. So being introverted, does that mean that when you're around other people projecting an image that you think people want to see in a social setting drains? You

Sarah 42:57
know, I think it's more of, I prefer smaller groups, like I love to be around people. But when it becomes like, bigger groups, like more than like five people, I'm just kind of like, Girl, I can't really talk to all of you, and like, keep a conversation going, but maybe I'll just talk to one person. So that in that kind of way,

Scott Benner 43:18
that's interesting. When there are a lot of people, they all seem like individuals that need attention. Like you can't see people's background.

Sarah 43:26
Well, yes and no. So I like to Well, before the pandemic got like a party, for example, I would stick to like my group of friends. But I mean, that's normal. Yeah, so I'm not sure how to explain that. But

Scott Benner 43:41
yeah, well, I don't know, either. I'm just interested because I'm imagining myself in a group of like, many, many people, and I feel like I just see the sea of people around as just a blur of nothing. You don't have to be like, I don't see this on them. They could be there or not be there. I don't love gatherings like that either. Just so you know, I'm not. I'm not Yeah, that's not my favorite either. I don't know a lot of people who love to be around, you know, 100 screaming people. A lot of fun. For me at least.

Unknown Speaker 44:14
Wow.

Scott Benner 44:15
Okay, is there anything we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?

Sarah 44:20
I just wanted to mention, like, as we're going over the pro tips and things like I love all of the advice, and I really appreciate it. But it's important to remember for people with diabetes, in anxiety, like it is manageable, but it just takes a little bit more. What's the word? I guess, motivation for some people, it could be people with depression. It just takes a little bit more motivation to change these things. So I'm in a good place right now where I can Look at the three points you gave me. And I'm really excited to try this. But if you talk to me a year, two years ago, I would have just been like, Okay, that sounds great. But I don't think I'll be doing that right now, like, if Does that make sense? So it's important to remember that it's gonna, it's gonna work out, but it just, each person is different. And I totally respect that. And I just want to make sure that that's no one everybody listening can still remember, because I was definitely in the place where advice was more. So I was I was taking advice as insults in the past. And now I'm super excited about advice in diabetes, because I have that newfound hope for it.

Scott Benner 45:47
Oh, that's interesting. So advice felt like an insult. Meaning at some points, yes. Yeah. Just like, you know, hey, you know, you could do, you could get up and go for a walk. And that would be good for you. And you're like, I know, I'm lazy. And that's how it felt, right.

Sarah 46:01
And I know, a lot of people out there have anxiety and depression. But for people, like my boyfriend, who is an amazing support system, and all my friends, but I'm one of the only people in my, in my, I guess, bubble in my group that suffer with depression and anxiety as intense as I did. So for a while, it was hard to even reach out to be like, Hey, I'm struggling. And I in it, and sometimes it was just like, Well, why don't you go do this, like you said, and I think some it's important to remember that it's gonna be okay. You just have to? Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:43
that's interesting, because you found part of the podcast where it was people talking. And that made you feel like you're not alone. And that that was helpful. But I think, if I'm not wrong, what you're saying is that if you're anxious or depressed, that the process is going to take longer, right? Because you kind of have to make yourself right with a step and then move to the next one. And that even just saying, Hey, you know, it's basil Pre-Bolus. This, this is where you start. That could seem overwhelming to somebody Exactly.

Sarah 47:13
Because it's even though it's, we, as you were discussing it, you were like 1233 points, it's, we can do this in a couple of hours. For someone like me, it's more than that. It's more like, Well, what about this? What about this as an anxious person, you just think of all the bad things instantly, instead of like, Oh, this is going to be simple. We can fix this right now. You know, so, for people, I just want to make sure that everyone can can know that it that it just was gonna take a few more

Scott Benner 47:48
steps, I think, but and those steps are. So my 123 are really four or five, six, because Right, right, but 123 for you, if you have anxiety is how to how to get to a place where you can put those other things into practice.

Sarah 48:03
Right? And it's it's a lot of mental work.

Scott Benner 48:08
But, but are you unable to tell me what those other steps are? Because they're, do you even know what they were for yourself?

Sarah 48:16
See, I think it's different for each person. But for me, I would be like, Well, what about if I want to snack? What if I just go take a nap? What if I actually go do yoga? What if I go take a walk? What if somebody needs me to come to this? What if I'm working that day? And what if I'm have this big project to do tonight like that is kind of where I'm coming from? So like the anxiety of everything else in life? So with those steps, I

Scott Benner 48:45
say so the anxiety gives you worry about endless things that whatever you can imagine you're willing to worry about in that moment. Yeah. Like, like, what if I have to paint my room in the middle of this while we're Basal testing then right gonna happen? Scott, obviously, I'm gonna die. Like that. Right? Like it feel right. Like, I see. Okay,

Sarah 49:04
well, that's so like, when you were saying that, obviously, you're not gonna go to that place. But my brain is just like, what about this? What about this? And it's not like a bad thing. I'm just saying it's, it's some people. I mean, I kind of struggle with that, you know? No, I

Scott Benner 49:21
understand. I really do. I know people have anxiety. And I've spoken to a lot of people on the podcast who've been depressed or anxious and, and I'm never not it gives me a feeling of bewilderment, because I don't have that affliction, right? It's not happening to me, right? You know, if you said to me, you know, Scott later we're gonna go downstairs and get in the car and drive away. I don't start thinking like, Oh, I hope I don't fall on the steps or have a car accident or something like that. occurred to me. And it's

Sarah 49:49
Yeah, it's kind of funny, because that's your kind of talking how my boyfriend's explained things to me. So he's, we're like the ying and yang of that. So He has never struggled with anxiety. And I'm over here like, we would have what if this happened? What do we do this and then adding a long distance relationship on top of that, it's it's just a funny thing to me.

Scott Benner 50:12
Well, and it's tough because if you're the person with anxiety, it is not as easy as just being told Don't be anxious. Yeah, exactly. It would be like if someone came up to me and said, Hey, just stop having cancer. It doesn't work that way. And yet, people who don't have anxiety can't fathom what's happening to you. I know it's for me, I'm mesmerized and interested as you're talking, because everything you're explaining is completely foreign to me, I can't even put context to it. I just don't have I don't have that experience, you know, right. And to help you. Like, if you made it my empirical reason for being alive to help you not feel anxious. I don't know what I would say to you. You know, what I mean? Like, I can hope is that if your blood sugars become more stable, that'll be one less thing for you to be anxious about, maybe that'll free up another break in the clouds for you to do something else, you know,

Sarah 51:07
right. And that's, that's why I say I think it's super important for people with diabetes, even if you don't struggle with anxiety, or depression or, or any mental illnesses, I think it's still super important to see a therapist to talk to somebody about it, because it can be really stressful. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:28
Can you similarly to what I similar to what I just said, Do you have trouble believing that some people just don't have anxiety?

Sarah 51:36
No, not at all. I, I've seen it firsthand, like my mom doesn't ever really share the same feelings as me in that sense. And neither does my boyfriend or my best friend even. So, it's kind of interesting. But I've also learned from them in that way, like they've helped me to be more carefree. Yeah, but saying so it's a good thing, I think to be a part of communities that people are like me, and then people that are like, you were just trying to learn from each other. Right?

Scott Benner 52:08
Again, a place where you can be aspirational. You can look up and say, Hey, they don't seem to be worried that the house is gonna fall. Why is that happening? Yeah, right. And so what happens when you're around people who don't have anxiety? Do you just like, do you find wimzie? Do you just close your eyes and jump? Like, how do you? How do you get to that? Like, how do they become impactful on you, when they're not anxious?

Sarah 52:31
Something that has really helped me is grounding. So I'll just, like, look down at my feet, like, no, count my fingers or something silly like that. And just think about where am i right now? So I'll be at someone's house. And I'm like, Well, why am I worrying about this thing that's a couple months away, or just like, you never know what you're gonna, your brain is gonna make you feel with anxiety sometimes. And so I like to look at them, see how their body languages and I kind of just imitate that. And then for some reason, for me, it helps to just kind of act like them. And then I'm all of a sudden calm, and it's just like, Well, why was I worried in the first place? And before therapy, I never really would try anything like that. So I would just, it just was like a snowball effect.

Scott Benner 53:26
Yeah, so you basically fake it till you make it for your own. You're tricking your brain into being like, we're cool. We did it. It's alright. Don't worry, right. And then it kind of lets go.

Sarah 53:36
Yeah, and it works for me. And I'm sticking to that. And that's kind of how I do with diabetes. Like, this morning, I woke up, my number was 207. And it's like, okay, that's how my mornings gonna go. But it's really, it's not a problem. Like I can Bolus for my breakfast, check my number right after keep up with it and didn't turn into anything other than that, you know. So that's exciting.

Scott Benner 54:03
That really is exciting for you. I'm glad. Yeah, that's excellent. I mean, that's how the only way to do this thing, right is you have to have a short memory, like having diabetes is like being a pitcher. You can't You can't give up a homerun and then turn back to the next batter and think I'm going to give up a homerun, again, this is what's gonna happen, I suck at this, this is gonna go poor, you just have to forget it and move on. And it really is. It's one of the steps I think of coming to terms with diabetes is you really do have to come to terms with this is what it is. It's always going to be this not every day, maybe but sometimes, and I have to be flexible, so that when it does pop up, I don't get mired down in it, to just fix it and move on. And that's it. Yeah, good for you. Wow. I think you're a really strong person. It's a lot of extra work that that, you know, some people don't have to do that you're having to do. And it's very cool that you didn't give up. It's Really great that you saw something and, and kind of ran. ran towards it. I'm, I'm very proud of you and I've only known you for like an hour. So thank you. Yeah, and your episodes gonna be called break in the clouds. Oh, that's awesome. That nice. That's beautiful. Thank you. Oh, no one's ever said that before once I got yelled at. I'm gonna clear up said this. She's like, No, you're not. I was like, I'm sorry, I won't. Like it's very easy to push me around

Sarah 55:28
when you mentioned pictures and and home runs and things that reminded me. I played softball in high school for two years. And in two years, I probably had about 40 juice boxes. And so my softball coach called me juice box, which is kind of funny that I'm on the Juicebox Podcast,

Scott Benner 55:49
juice box. Get into the field, you're playing second.

Sarah 55:52
Yeah, I would be in the dugout with the Capri Sun before the next inning was up. And it was I don't know, I was a mess.

Scott Benner 56:01
Well, listen, I think there's a world where you could go play softball again, your blood sugar wouldn't get low while you were playing? Absolutely. And that world, just for clarity is a built on a great basil rate Pre-Bolus in your meals and understanding your food. That's it. I am dying to hear back from you. So I will keep in touch. Yeah, I want to know how this goes. I really do.

Sarah 56:26
Yeah, I'm really excited to this year has definitely been crazy, is a good word to describe it, everybody. But it's been kind of the best year for me.

Scott Benner 56:37
So let's, let's end with that. Because I agree with you, this might have been good for a lot of people. So taking a lot of the variables out of your life, for the lockdown gave you more bandwidth to look at the things you need to look at Is that about right?

Sarah 56:53
That's right, it's definitely kind of the not really a break. But definitely a break from unnecessary stresses in my life. And I was really able to reconnect with myself. I know that's cheesy, but it's true. And being able to have the job that I have and be able to go to school online and take care of myself. It's been wonderful.

Scott Benner 57:20
It's made some space for you to operate in. Yeah, so between the anxiety, the diabetes, and the rat race of life, you were just you were you were inside like a snow globe, and somebody was just constantly shaking it. But now, somebody put the snow globe down and you're able to focus on what's around you and, and this nose kind of fall on everything still, when you're like, Okay, I can take care of my blood sugar better than I can do this. And then you just needed more time you needed a slower launch. To me like, I really do think that's what it is. And it's what you said earlier, right? Like you just, there's more steps for you to get to something. And while while everyone else is racing forward, you'd prefer to walk forward, because it's gonna take you a little longer to step over the roadblocks in front of you. But then once you get over those blocks, you're good, as long as you don't get into a group of more than five people. I'm just kidding.

Sarah 58:12
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a really great way to think about it. And I don't think there's really anything wrong with that, recognizing it and making the change. Are you kidding, that's what's important.

Scott Benner 58:24
There's nothing wrong with whatever anyone needs to do, to get through their thing. You know, like, because everybody has something. And you know, you just need to make adjustments, like the world's not like the way the world looks, makes everybody feel like there are rules. Like, this is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I have to do. This is the timeframe, I need to accomplish these things. And, and if I'm not making a certain amount of money, or don't get to this point in a certain amount of time, this whole thing's an abject failure, and I'm gonna die penniless and alone. That's how everybody thinks about life. And you really shouldn't, there's a billion things going on around you, you can just find the spot where you fit and settle into.

Sarah 59:06
And I think that's just the best way to think about it. I become a real optimist this over this pandemic, which is, it's kind of ironic, you know, but I really agree. I think

Scott Benner 59:17
there's a place for everybody. Yeah, there really is. And if you're trying to jam yourself into a spot you don't fit, you really should stop doing that. Right. You know, it really is a it's just a fool's errand to make yourself into something that you're not. You're delightful, sir. I really appreciate you doing this.

Sarah 59:36
Thank you. I'm so glad that I was able to come on and if I can reach just one person struggling kind of the same way I was. I mean, that's so worth it to me.

Scott Benner 59:45
You're gonna reach a lot more than one person so so thank you very much for sharing your story. I Was it easy for you to talk about yourself? Or did did you find this troubling?

Sarah 59:55
So I reached out to you maybe in June or two I can't even remember. And you telling me December, I was like, Oh, that's gonna be great, whatever. Didn't think about it for a couple months, anxiety rolls around when I get the reminder. One week away, you have a zoom with the Scott and I'm like, Oh gosh, what am I gonna even talk about? But it's always like, so worth it after I do a big thing like this or, you know, it's kind of like the stage fright of a project in school. Yeah, in that way. Yeah. I mean, it was not hard to talk about myself, because I reminded myself that some other people might be feeling the same way.

Scott Benner 1:00:36
Yeah, well, you did great. And they definitely are feeling the same way. So it's very valuable for you to talk about it. Do I have to put this right out? Are you gonna or you're not gonna freak out if it takes a little while for it to go up?

Sarah 1:00:46
Oh, no, no. This was a really cool experience for me.

Scott Benner 1:00:50
I'm glad I really am.

Huge thanks to Sarah for coming on the show and sharing her story. Don't forget there's gonna be a little update from Sarah in a second. I also want to thank on the pod makers of the Omni pod dash and makers of the Omni pod promise for sponsoring this episode of the Juicebox Podcast, of course also to be thanked today. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can find out more about that meter at Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box and the Omni pod is available to you at Omni pod comm forward slash juice box head over and find out more.

I reached out to Sarah to get an update. And here's what she said. I graduated with my associates degree in early childhood education this May. I also earned certifications in children's education, career studies, and early childhood development. I was inspired to become a diabetic educator, but realize that teaching young children is my true passion. Just this week, I was offered a lead teaching position. In a Montessori Preschool. She's very excited. But she still wants to continue to spread awareness for Type One Diabetes outside of her career. She also says that there's always room for improvement. But my diabetes management has gotten better and my agency is getting better. It's now at 6.4. She's super excited to be vaccinated and getting back out into the world and meeting her friends. And she was excited to come on the podcast. Thank you so much, Sarah, I was excited for having you. I am super sorry that I lost the minutes at the beginning where we were getting to know each other. I want to thank everyone for listening and let you know that I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

#512 Patrick Wicklander was Drafted by the Tampa Bay Rays

Patrick Wicklander was just drafted by the Tampa Bay Rays.

He was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes last year.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 512 of the Juicebox Podcast.

With the 200 and 51st pick, in the 2021 MLB draft, the Tampa Bay Rays have selected Patrick wick lender. And Patrick's on the show today, just a week and a half after he was drafted. It's pretty excited. He's gonna talk to you today about what it's like to have type one some of the family history has around type one playing in school, we'll go through his diagnosis story, talk about being drafted. And a lot more.

Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician. The word physician just got caught in my throat, I'll try again, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. About Patrick, getting drafted. pretty damn cool. Let's hear about it.

Not gonna put any ads on this episode, but I am going to remind you about the advertisers. Here's why I'm doing that. The show is my job. And I'm able to treat it that way. Because of the advertisers just getting Patrick on the show in a timely fashion. After he was drafted before he goes to sign his contract and all the stuff that has to happen. A lot goes into that a lot of scheduling and trying and doing things at odd times. And because this podcast is ad supported, I can make the time for that I can be available for those things. So I'm squeezing in an extra episode here this week. So I don't really have any ads for it. But it wouldn't exist without the support of Dexcom on the pod Contour Next One blood glucose meter, g evoke hypo pen touched by type one, that relationship I have with the T one D exchange every time you guys sign up for the exchange, I get some compensation. That's not really an ad thing. They don't buy ads. But there's that even all of you who bought me a cup of coffee, you make it possible for me to be available to do this stuff. And so I appreciate you. Advertisers appreciate you. And that's why we've got a conversation today with Patrick. So that's it. There's links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm to all of the advertisers, if you need one of those things, or you're interested in one of those things that I mentioned, just using my link is a lot of support for the show.

Patrick Wicklander 3:09
I'm Patrick Wicklander born and raised San Jose, California. Just finished my junior season. University Arkansas, left handed pitcher drafted a throne 20/51 pick overall by the Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay Rays.

Scott Benner 3:23
Is that like the best thing you've ever said out loud? Honestly, yeah. I imagine I think our conversation is gonna go differently than it goes with a lot of people. So the first thing I'm interested in knowing is how old were you when you started playing baseball? or five, right? Or Five, four. Right? I remember. My son was born in February. And my wife started bothering me the spring of that he was three years old. She's like, he's got to play baseball, like because we bought him. So we bought this house right. And we were, we had to clean up the outside, there's a lot of work to do. And, and he was, you know, two, three years old, we bought him this little plastic T and a plastic bat and some balls and we stuck it in the backyard like the backyard or like a bomb went off in it. So we're like, here's a safe split space. And my wife and I are picking sticks up and we're cleaning things up and trying to get it looking like a like a yard. And we just notice, like three year old Cole is just taking the same exact swing over and over again, the ball is just going like this little plastic balls going like 45 feet into the same spot over and over again. And my wife's like he might be good at this. So you know, you go to the little league and they laugh. They're like you got to be five to play Little League Baseball. So I think we took him to the YMCA. And I was like, Come on, let him play. So he played his first game when he was four. And yesterday I was out on a football field with him while he was throwing in long toss and everything so I'm starting to get too old for it. I gotta tell you, Patrick, my pointer finger on my gloved hand is bruised and it's purple and it hurts and I don't think he throws nearly as As you do so your dad must have given up a long time ago is what I'm saying? No. So my dad, I think it was like 11 or 12 years. I can't play can't do anymore. Yeah. I was like, I remember, I remember the day I knew I shouldn't do it. And I'm still because we don't live in a baseball Mecca. Like there's, there's no one form to do it with. Like he's trying to do a thing that other people aren't trying to do, and you can't find people to. So I'm out there. So Patrick, I will tell you a secret. I know I've never said on this podcast before. When I have a catch with call. I've learned because my eyes have changed over time. That's the biggest problem, right? Your hand is not bad. It's that your vision goes to the ball sort of disappears on its path a couple of times like you see it that you don't see it, then it's back again. And it's way closer the next time you say it. So I don't let anything extraneous bother me. I stare in his eyes the entire time we're having a catch. And I think in my head every time I see his arm move, I think I swear to God, I think to myself in my head, I go catch the ball, catch the ball catch.

Patrick Wicklander 6:05
Okay, let's meet with one of our freshmen last year. So we have a freshman he's down to 99.6. So I'm not going to give him credit for 100 yet yeah, like a true freshmen. 1819 years old. I'm playing catch with them. And I'm always online, I bomb Walker. And so like, behind me, I have all these fans. I'm like, I can't miss a ball or kiss. A kid is going to the hospital.

Scott Benner 6:31
Exactly how I feel. I think if I eat this ball, first of all, he'll never do this with me again. And I don't know who else he's got to do it with. And and I am never going to live it down. And plus, it looks like it's really going to hurt. So I just think to myself, like do not for anything if the world blows up right now. Catch the ball first is how it feels. So So tell people a little bit like what is your memory of playing baseball as a child? Do you have any? Or how does it feel to you when you look back on it?

Patrick Wicklander 7:01
Gosh, I play bass. I played so much baseball. I look back on I played so much baseball. A best memory I would say is my freshman year going to the World Series in 2019. I mean it was just like the atmosphere all like festivities stuff like that. Just playing in front of that big of a crowd. Yeah. Like Don't get me wrong. You probably like you and your listeners probably seeing what our regional look like when Charlie watch it that walk like that. Go ahead to run jack. He has a basket that place was wild, right? But playing in front of the pack, TD Ameritrade, Omaha, Nebraska, there's

Scott Benner 7:44
no better feeling. Yeah, it's interesting what happens to the crowd once people start collecting. So this is not nearly as similar story. But my son was playing for like, some district title when he was a little kid. And something like 500 people showed up to this little field and they had it surrounded. And I think he was in left that day. And the ball went in the corner. And he said he was heading into the corner and there were grown men yelling at him. Don't worry, he's not going don't throw it don't drop the ball. Like he's like I was like 12 years old. And they were screaming in my face, like, let it go. Let it go. He's like he said, he said he picked the ball up. He made a throw. And he's walking back to his position. He's like, wow, these people are really excited to be here. And he said he thought more excited than I am, I think. But something about when everybody gets together and then something happens and adjust. And then something on that level. It's just crazy. You know,

Patrick Wicklander 8:40
the first time I experienced like a huge crowd like that. It was my senior year we're playing for our sectional, I would say because California is home state for some reason. And so it was our sectional title. And we're playing a low a park in my hometown of San Jose. And we're playing like one of our rival high schools. And like, the minor, the minor league team doesn't get the stadium filled out. We had this place pack like there's people standing on the side. I was like, Well, is it gonna be this is gonna be fun.

Scott Benner 9:14
Everything is feels multiplied. Did you? Have you always pitched or did you play? I mean, we're a little kid you do more than one thing, but when did you

Patrick Wicklander 9:23
just oh, I've always I've always pitched I wasn't I kid that through Harvard never really knew where I was going until I was like 12 or 13. But up until eighth grade I actually caught blue not left handed catcher.

Unknown Speaker 9:34
Yeah. We're younger growing up, like bigger than the other kids. Not not like Jurassic I was just a little taller.

Patrick Wicklander 9:43
But a weight like weight structure wise. I was a little beanpole until freshman year of college. Really? Yeah. first year of college. I weighed in at 169.

Scott Benner 9:53
Wow, how hard were you thrown at that point?

Patrick Wicklander 9:57
I'm not tonight. I was up to 94 Mark freshman year of high school like senior high school at least whether they like obviously went down because I was getting used to the workouts the way college work. I'm just like that every doing it every single day. Yeah. But then as everything had progressed, I kind of might be looking back and

Scott Benner 10:20
yeah, now you own out. So a charity is a big piece of it after that, too, right?

Patrick Wicklander 10:24
maturity is 100%. Legal. I mean, because if I was as good as all these other high school kids coming out of the draft like me myself, I was like, I know I'm not good enough. Like I wouldn't pan out and put a lot of high school, or going to college is probably the best thing I ever did.

Scott Benner 10:37
Yeah. It's, it's interesting, when you look back, at after every, I don't know how other people think about baseball, but it happens in sections. Like once you have enough time in it, and you can look back, you can see that everything that you thought was super important when your kids were 1011 1215. It was meaningless. You know, the best kid you played with when you were 15 is a is an accountant somewhere now, you know, and

Patrick Wicklander 11:00
I see I can say, the best kid when I was 15 that I played with was 15. He was the first overall

Scott Benner 11:07
unless you played with him. And I guess, but you know what I mean? Like, usually a kid who's great when they're 14 is just kind of great, because they're bigger than the other 14 year olds. And you know, and then it moves on from there. But the one piece that's interesting, I would think for you now to look back on is that even when you're being taken at college, it's still just a flyer, it's a like, maybe the Patrick kittel workout will take him, maybe this kiddle workout, and then they throw you back into a bucket again and mix you back up to see who comes out again, right is that basically.

Patrick Wicklander 11:38
So the way you call it, like the way I kind of knew college is that you kind of have the kids that aren't really like the highly scouted, highly recruited, like those kids that make their way to campus. It's like, okay, those kids are gonna have a chip on their shoulder, they're there to work, they're gonna keep their head down. It's a menace, the kids that like that, like, it's our surprise, I made it to campus because it should have made it to, like they should have been drafted, they should have assigned. And those are the kids that are feel like everything's kind of owed to them. Right. So that's what I kind of see him for just from experiences and kind of seeing that all around the country to interesting and here and here and other stories. So it's kind of you just kind of get it, you have to go into college, right? Like mindset and attitude. But I've always my dad taught me to just always like your head down on work. So I'm being taught that growing up it kind of like it kind of helped me out through college. I mean, I was fortunate to start my freshman year in the sec. Yeah. So and that's not something you do, like you hear every day.

Scott Benner 12:35
No, a lot of kids that show up and they sometimes don't play to their juniors. It's Yeah, it's a shock when it happens to you. Okay, so you throw in hard you coming out of high school, you go to a great, I mean, it's a great baseball school to go to, were there other places that you were, were talking to you like how did it almost go?

Patrick Wicklander 12:58
So I was actually committed to the Dallas Baptist, my sophomore year of high school fall like that after recommended. junior year, the pitching coach left the guy who recruited me. So my talk from my parents were like, okay, we'll see how like, wait a year, we'll see how it plays out. If the programs and everything is not gone as you plan like, well, we'll reconsider. So okay. Um, Jr. went by nothing really happened. When senior went by I got a call from the pigeonholes that recruited me. Do you know that Arkansas? He goes, Hey, how would you like to be a hot?

Scott Benner 13:39
Salt? Take it. Thanks. Sorry, sign me up. Let me just call this Dallas Baptist place real quick. Tell him I'm sorry.

Patrick Wicklander 13:48
But it was just it was a straight It was a strange process. Because it's like one of those phone calls. It's like a breakup you don't like you have like, you have to do it over the phone. Because like I was in California, you can't just walk up to the coach and be like, Hey, I'm decommitted. Yeah, I was like, This is gonna be such an awkward phone call.

Scott Benner 14:05
Did you find it that it was or did you find that this happens to him? And he just was like, All right, good luck.

Patrick Wicklander 14:12
It was kind of he the cosa dBu try to keep me while I was like, hey, like, I can't really? Yeah, it's a better fit, like a better. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:23
it was too big of a leap.

Patrick Wicklander 14:25
And then he came when he came to the conclusion like, Okay, if this is what's best for you, good luck, then after that.

Scott Benner 14:32
Yeah. That's that. But I think it's hard to remember that coaches have like, really one job. They're just trying to win baseball games. And they don't, they don't.

Patrick Wicklander 14:43
That's the thing. I realized, too. It's the coaches care for you. And it's like, it's also a business. Right? Call it a business.

Scott Benner 14:52
Yeah. I would say that, um, I've had, I've had conversations with a number of major league players who have type one diabetes. One of them told me something privately that is stuck with me forever. And, and I don't remember the exact words, but the gist of the message was, I am a tool that they paid for. And if I can't, if I'm a hammer, they can hammer a nail anymore than they're gonna throw me in the trash and get a new hammer. And the person was not like, wasn't a sad statement, it was just like, this is how this works. You know,

Patrick Wicklander 15:26
there's nothing once you get paid based on your investment now. Yeah, that's just it's just how it is, I guess. We'll get on there's relationships. But at the end of the day, it's business.

Scott Benner 15:37
He said some of his best friends were made playing baseball, but he's also played baseball with people who he, you know, has no connection to whatsoever. They were just they were coworkers. Just a strange thing when you watch it on television, or you see it in person, because he can't imagine it. That's how it is. But but it makes sense. So you've made that that leap now, right? So I guess this is where I want to ask you. How old are you right now? 21 going on? 22? How old were you when you were diagnosed with Type 120 so a year it's only been about a year?

Patrick Wicklander 16:13
Just a little over may 23 was a year ago.

Scott Benner 16:16
Was there any indication through family lineage that type one existed in your life?

Patrick Wicklander 16:21
So a bunch of people my family have it The thing was is that I you know the symptoms like blurry vision, constant urination, calm consequently, you get all that, like he just kind of catches up to you over months. But no, mine hit me like a training two and a half, three weeks.

Scott Benner 16:40
Didn't come on slowly. So you didn't have much of a honeymoon, then your insulin needs went right to what they were.

Patrick Wicklander 16:45
No, so that was like right before diagnosis. Oh, okay. But I'm actually very low Basal, right. Like I use point eight. How much do I like point a of a unit? I am going to five to 200 pounds.

Scott Benner 17:01
Okay, how tall are you? 6262. Okay, so that's I'm gonna guess is your activity, like you work out every day? You're 100 100%.

Patrick Wicklander 17:12
Yeah. And basil rates really low. I mean, there's times where I'd like, I'll eat I have a lot of times I don't have to use more than two years of insulin

Scott Benner 17:25
for a meal.

Patrick Wicklander 17:27
Yeah, yeah. Because like my diet, it's not really carb heavy to begin with. Right. And the thing is, I just don't snack on sugar, either.

Scott Benner 17:37
Yeah, that makes it a lot easier. So a lot of people in your family like aunts, uncles, grandparents, like that kind of deal.

Patrick Wicklander 17:45
My uncle both biological grandfather's one of my biological grandmother's.

Scott Benner 17:49
Oh, wow. You were so so I'm just gonna diagnosed with Type two. So like, you were definitely getting diabetes. So it's almost like a family gift. They were passing down. But. But did you ever think about it? Like when you were growing up? Did you ever think or just hit you out of nowhere?

Patrick Wicklander 18:08
It literally hit me out of nowhere. I just thought like, I'm like, I knew diabetes is hereditary. I mean, I've lived with my uncle for a little bit too, like he lived with he overheard that he was with us because I just the way the economy was. Sounds Uh, yeah. I got to see the highs and lows of it. And I noticed hereditary, but I was like, I don't think I'll get it. I mean, I'm, I'm doing everything a doctor tells you to do to not get

Scott Benner 18:34
it. Right. You're about to listen, my son. I think his best day ever hit about 91 and a half. Okay. And he's 20. He's your age. So he's smaller than you probably by about 10 or 15 pounds and a couple of inches. So he's about six feet. And he bounces around 190 he's trying to get more. But it doesn't matter. In the end how hard you throw if you're training to do a thing. I've watched him. It's fascinating. You probably could spend three hours a day working right? At least. That's the least I spend. Yeah, yeah, that's like the bare minimum. I've seen his days go six hours in a gym like Hill recoveries. And I don't know if you use Pio balls like plyo balls and like all this stuff, and it's it just it's an immense amount of work. And I would imagine that it it helps you with your insulin as a matter of fact, we just got done doing. We just got done doing a we're doing a little series right now about variables of diabetes and one of the things we talked about was quality of food. We talked about exercise heat, you know, all that stuff. And and how it impacts your insulin usage. So, alright, so you're diagnosed at the time you're diagnosed a year ago. Was it your expectation that you might get drafted at that point.

Patrick Wicklander 19:59
So why It was more during the COVID shut down. And like I was like, Okay, I'm another year. I mean, a year is plenty of time for me to get back getting the shake. Get the COVID got me to be quite honest with you. That's how bad it was. I was like, I like taking a shower was fatigue like fatigue? Oh, you cut

out for a second. Did you cut off when you were telling me you got COVID? Oh, no, no, I was like, Wait, what? When I was diagnosed, I was like, right in the midst of the COVID shut down. Okay. was two months into it. And like, like I was 25 anywhere between 25 and 40 pounds in two and a half, three weeks. Wow. And I didn't realize what it was. So my. So I go to Urgent Care on and I'm like, please don't COVID like that's going through my head. Like I just hope I've covered at this point, right. And so the nurses running all these tests, I lay down, she draws blood and my my brother has been labored for those two and a half, three weeks. Yeah, he was very nervous. Not Not at all. Then it's like, okay, we'll speed up on these test. tests come back. She's shy. She's he walks into the office, and I'm just like, so what? Do I have? COVID? Like, please don't, please. Yeah. Because what are the other options feel like at that moment? Like, that's a big wake loss. Cancer. Yeah, like something?

Like, I was like, I need something here. Like, tell me what's going on? Yeah. And she goes, Well, do you have any family in town? I'm like, closest family houses in Texas. I'm in Arkansas at this time to write. as you as well, you need somebody out here. We're going to ambulance you to the ER, like what I have. And she says we're 90% sure you're type one diabetic. And we don't know how you're walking with these numbers. So what are the numbers? Choose your a one? A one C is 13.7. And your blood sugar's 535. And going up? Wow.

Scott Benner 21:56
scared. You feel like a little boy. Are we okay?

Patrick Wicklander 22:00
No, no, no. So growing up, I always tell my mom first want to get diabetes wins. I know it's a little a little dat jam. So I call my mom. Is it a mom? You know, he's always say like growing up. She was raised a winter. I did it. And then she goes Patrick, Daniel, wait, no, but seriously, like, and then the ER like, we're going to the ER, What do y'all need to get out here? I don't care who just get out

Scott Benner 22:26
with the insurance card, please. That, okay, that's a lot. I want to know. And if it didn't happen, it's fine. But in any point during these next couple of days, do you have the conscious thought, but I can throw a baseball really fast? What the hell? Like I was on my way to something like that, or did you just know like, I'll go, it's okay. I'll pull this together and get back to it.

Patrick Wicklander 22:53
My first question the ER was when can I get out of here? Okay, first question to the nurse. Cuz I was like, I need to get back. I mean, going. And when I was out of the hospital, or no later than a week later, I was back to working out. Good. Yeah, I saw that like the constant struggle of trying to find like, hey, what works best for me what my blood blood sugar's gonna work best. Um, but as soon as I got a hospital, I mean, it was constant trial and error with the insulin and just trying to make it work with my workouts and stuff.

Scott Benner 23:28
Yeah. How quickly Did you find technology like a pumper? A CGM. Less than

Patrick Wicklander 23:35
two months after. Okay. land up my endo is my endo. really helped me out on that one. really helped out on that one. Got it sped up for you a little bit? Yeah, so she, she was one of the other college geologists that is like associated with the school because she's not the first diabetic athlete in Arkansas, that she I'm not the first that she's had. But she goes, I understand where you're at, and especially in your career, so we're going to get this set up for you. All right, cool. Yeah, no kidding.

Scott Benner 24:05
So, you know, when you and I messaged and Originally, I asked you this question, but I'm gonna ask it to you again. I guess I know the answer. But did when teams found out you had type one, did it dissuade some of them from being interested?

Patrick Wicklander 24:21
100 that's what my agent was telling me. He goes, you're going to get some of your money cut. And it's just because you're diabetic,

Scott Benner 24:34
right? It's good because they're scared and they don't know what the what to make. Cuz you're a liability. Yeah, you become more of a risk, I guess.

Patrick Wicklander 24:42
I mean, prime examples. Garrett Mitchell in last year's five rounds, rounds like he went 20th. Overall, he was the type one diabetic. He was a I believe he was a top five player in the nation.

Scott Benner 24:52
Yeah. No, I I watched him too. And I was surprised. I mean, I guess I wasn't surprised, but it was still shocking to see him fall even as far as he did. And I mean, obviously, being picked where he was picked is amazing. But, you know, when you're thinking you're up in those top few, there's top choices. And I mean, for clarity, right, like you get picked in the top few. It's a fair amount of money. It's, it's, it's enough money that if things go completely wrong and you go, Oh, well, that didn't work out. Like, you know, like, You got it, you got a bigger safety because you know the most Right, right, it ends up being nice and that money dwindles down and plus I see the teams. I mean, they were talking a lot this year about how the teams were taking players higher that they didn't think should be that high. So then they could nickel and dime them later. Like almost like, hey, you're lucky we took you here. We're not going to pay as much money now and then took the guys from the higher ones a little lower. I don't know a lot about that. But that was interesting. Even.

Patrick Wicklander 25:51
I mean, I didn't really like dive too deep on that. It's just all a bunch of like, Guys, I was like,

well, like it kind of shocked me like how high they got, like how high they were because I like I didn't recognize some of the names. Right? I was like, Huh, I don't even my first I was like, I wonder. I wonder what he's gonna get?

Scott Benner 26:09
Yeah. So are you for just being left handed? I guess for people who don't understand, maybe I'll be wrong, but you tell me throwing as hard as you do. Left Handed is fairly uncommon, right?

Patrick Wicklander 26:26
Well, nowadays in baseball, it's not like everyone knows. Everyone's from the left side. I mean, it does. It does have its benefits. Because 70% of pitchers are right handed. Yeah. So being that 30 being part of that other 30 that you could start and still throw that hard. I mean, it does help you out. Like, longevity wise,

Scott Benner 26:49
right? Have you ever been hurt? Seriously? Knock on wood? No, I'm not gonna look for it. I just I was I mean, it's a it's a reasonable question. If you've been throwing, so does it ever. I don't know if you think of it this way. But the matriculation up to a professional athlete. So many things have to go right for you. But one of them is that your body can't give up on you. Like, there are plenty of guys that can do it and their elbows explode or, you know, like something happens? And how do you think of that? I mean, I just think of it as is randomness and luck, right? But is there a way you you think about like being here? Is there like when you put your head on the pillow at night? You're like, I can't believe this happen? Like,

Patrick Wicklander 27:34
could you actually mean like me and my buddy, were actually talking about it last night. So he got picked up in the cemetery by the angels. And like, he went our salvation in Northern California. And he got like, as soon as we both got drafted, he snapchatted me and goes, Hey, Pro, pro baseball player. And a bunch of the guys he talks to like, cuz he works out with a bunch of pro guys. And they're like, the moment you realize that the moment you're not an odd anymore as a moment, it's over. Right? So I like he said, I was like, Well, what do you mean, he goes, you gotta be a kid in the candy store the entire time. Like, that's the passion you got to have for it. And I was telling my girlfriend last night too. And I was like, I'm a professional baseball player.

Scott Benner 28:21
I'm gonna want something better for my birthday this year. That's all I'm saying. Well, I got to watch. So Cole went out to drive line for five weeks. And for him, it was just one of those things where, you know, he's, I mean, he's obviously he's a little smaller than most people being. I know, that sounds crazy to most people listening like my kids six feet tall, he weighs 190 pounds. He's a little small. And you know, like, it's a weird feeling. But he's super athletic. And he's never really been a pitcher. I think he's thrown a handful of innings in college. And you know, and in high school, but he was mainly where we kind of started to figure it out. And it got put in the back of your head a little bit was in the process that you probably didn't have to go through as much, which is trying to find a school to go play at. And you start showing up at all these their cattle calls for baseball players, and you get there and if there's 110 kids there, you can be damn sure 85 of them can't play baseball, right? And you're and you're just like what is happening, but they get to the end and there would always be more hitters and pitchers. And they would come into the dugout and be like, Look, can someone just throw five or 10 more kids, we got to get out of here. And my son was just like, Look, I'll do anything to get out of here. We've been here for three days now I'm done. I'll do it. And then we would inevitably leave those things and someone would pull them aside and say you know you had the best vilo today, but you're not listed as a pitcher. And my son would tell them just because I throw harder than those kids doesn't make me a pitcher. It makes them not a pitcher and then he would kind of just leave. But at some point you start realizing like like if you want to keep playing, you'll follow Any path, that's even like a dim possibility and as a hitter, if you don't stand up there and just mindlessly hit like a truck, you know, it's kind of it's hard to get found. So my son has, he has he has the worst, best skill. He is a pro level outfielder. Like you drop him in centerfield. And any game you've ever been in or any game, you will play it and you would think that person belongs their arm range, like he's legit, right? Just drop him in center and leave them there. I've seen him throw, I saw called throw a kid out at third base without bouncing the ball from right center from the warning track, a kid trying to tag going second to third. And he caught the ball going over his shoulder turned, planted his foot in the ground and put the ball in the third baseman's glove. And like that's, that's his arm, right? So he heads out to do this thing. And I The reason I brought it up is because I saw I went out with him for the first couple days because it was across the country. And we didn't know where we were sending them. And I was like, I'll go help you get set up, and then I'll come home, you know. So I went in one day, and there were guys that walked in there with their heads down. And they looked like old men go into work. And then they would kind of mindlessly go through this, these exercises. And then they'd put their head down and walk out again. And it made me think what your what your buddy was telling you about kind of keeping the childlike joy about it, because those guys clearly did not have that anymore. And I hope that's something you can hold on to because me there's nothing better if you can do this, you know?

Patrick Wicklander 31:40
I mean, this is something like I want to do ever since like a pic of baseball.

Scott Benner 31:45
Yeah, I remember my son telling me when he was eight years old. Before I think he knew what college was. He said, I'm gonna play baseball in college. And I was like, okay, and at that time, I wouldn't tell you he was even the 10th best baseball player on his baseball team, you know, is one of the smaller kids and I think for people who love playing, it's magical. And, and I'm, I get sad when I when you see it. I mean, it's cool to watch people ascend so high, but it's weird to watch them. When it turns into a job like I

Patrick Wicklander 32:20
that part. It's just mindless work. And it's just one of those things is like, do you want to keep doing this? Or what's the what's the whole deal here?

Scott Benner 32:29
Yeah, what's the plan? So do you? What's next? Like do you go then they put you on a team and you go play? Did they give you workouts? Like how does it work after you're drafted?

So just like I promised at the beginning, there's no ads. I'm just reminding you again, that the show is sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor. By the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, g Volk, glucagon touched by type one and the T one D exchange. If you have any interest in any of those things, using my links is a big help and a big deal. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player. Links at Juicebox Podcast comm where you can type in the web addresses dexcom.com forward slash juice box on the pod.com forward slash juice box g Volk glucagon.com forward slash juice box Contour Next One that comm forward slash juice box touched by type one.org T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box. That's all I got for you. Like how does it work after you're drafted?

Patrick Wicklander 34:03
So I'm still working out? Um, I haven't been home since Christmas. So actually, later today after I'm done with this, I'll be driving to Albuquerque to stay the night. Then tomorrow, Jeff from Albuquerque back home.

Unknown Speaker 34:15
Okay,

Patrick Wicklander 34:16
I'm there for the week, then I fly out to Tampa on Saturday. And then I'll be again all acclimated to pro ball and all that.

Scott Benner 34:26
Okay. And then did they put you because I was talking to a I was talking to a scout last summer during COVID who I only got to talk to because my kid made some crazy catch and throw in this man with a clipboard comes running across the field whose son is that? And I was like finally. And of course it never goes anywhere but you're talking and I said what are you doing with guys you're taking right now and they said we're giving them workout plans to do at home. But that's that's all they had at that point. They're like here do this. So so that kind of brings up something that I want I wanted to ask you about. So I don't imagine you listen to the podcast too much. But there's this CD that comes on. Her name is Jenny. And she's had type one for over 30 years. And we talk about kind of nuts and bolts ideas about management that we talked about in the podcast. And she was telling me, I hope she doesn't mind she was telling me a private story the other day, where at one point in the past, she was brought on to a major league team to help a guy with type one. And the first thing that she realized when she got there, she told me was that she was astounded by how poorly they ate. Like the players like the food that was like, and so I wonder, like, have you given thought to the fact that maybe you're gonna have to be in charge of that for yourself?

Patrick Wicklander 35:44
I've always been pretty good about how I eat by um, my, if it's the only thing there, I'll eat it. But I don't mind spending a few extra dollars on something a little better. We got the airport, I won't go to like some of the fast food fast food places in there unless I have to. Yeah, well, if not, I'll go to like the little sandwich kiosks. I'll spend $12 on a sandwich. That's probably the size of my hand. It sounds a little crazy. But but it's, I rather I rather eat this because one, it tastes a lot better right now. And two, it's going to be better for me,

Scott Benner 36:17
right? So you're gonna have to keep doing that, because the team's not going to put out like quality stuff. And, and you're not going to be one of those guys just got like a, like a nutritionist and the chef walking around behind? Not yet soon, Patrick. So do you have a timeline on me that will say that you froze? I'm sorry. You, you froze? You said you said you're not going to be or you want to?

Patrick Wicklander 36:47
I'm not going to be that guy with the shelf walking around. It's like, I'll bring my own food if I have to. I have no issue doing that for you.

Scott Benner 36:54
Yeah, I just think you have to. Well, listen, maybe you'll find a different situation in Tampa, but you're gonna have to look out for yourself. Like is, is the is the is the message I got from her that if you were waiting for the team to put out a absolute which is such a strange thing, right? Because you guys are like their bodies to the whole thing. But I guess it's expensive to put food out. And so it doesn't get done as well, some places as others. But yeah, no, that's, that's amazing. So you're gonna have to take so you're gonna go, you really don't do really even know what's about to happen to you. I mean, I just go to the field, do my physical best.

Patrick Wicklander 37:36
I saw I sign at Tropicana. Go back and get Okay. Tell

Scott Benner 37:41
me get guys start throwing a baseball. Did you get a phone call from the team? How does it work when you're taking in a later round like that, but now

Patrick Wicklander 37:49
I still get a phone call. It wasn't from the GM it was from the Midwest scout. So he's kind of in charge, like putting like my contract and get everything situated. So he sent me I got an email that's like, Hey, this is what we're going to be required, like, the complex dress code, what you need to bring what we're providing? How is this going to work? So very cool. And like the first question, I asked him before, like he sent that I was like, hey, how's the living gonna work? He goes a lot, the complex will put you up like a hotel. And then like, on the road, I'm not sure like, for like mentally, like, where I would start out like, I'm not he goes, I'm not 100% sure if it's a condo, or a hotel. But let me get back to you on that one. Art, because like, that's the big thing. I just want to know, like, how to get everything set up. So I'm not walking anything blind,

Scott Benner 38:47
you know, for a number of years in Trenton, New Jersey. The Yankees? Like Aaron judge played there for a while. And those guys lived with host families.

Patrick Wicklander 38:59
Like Yeah, and, um, because in San Jose, like we have the sounds of giants, and they used to host families. Yeah, I would not mind staying with a host family at all. Right?

Scott Benner 39:07
He's at least they're kind and it's homey, and you know, they might cook. But it's interesting, because so do you think a guy that goes one? Who's Ariana in the top? 10 who's probably just cashed a $6 million check sometime in the last week? Like, like, do you think he's staying with everybody else?

Patrick Wicklander 39:29
Well, 100% cuz usually those guys that go that high are not one just talented, but to like good people. Okay. Um, so just kind of see like, because a lot of them are like, like the, like, this year, it was a lot more pitchers in the top 10 I believe. But I think like two of them were teammates in college. Right? They know, it's, it's like you're used to being around other people. And like, you know how to like live on the road. So it's more All right, I don't think they get I wouldn't get put anywhere else. It's just your your another dude right now. Yeah, you gotta get after like, you know how to call wasn't

Scott Benner 40:09
Seattle at least and he was out there for those few weeks I think he might have stayed in the house with 13 to 15 guys like they each had a room but they you know everything happened in one place and everything. And I was like how'd you like it so it was fine. Like he just it was just the place to be before you went to work out a place to come take a shower and eat afterwards and stuff like that. It's really interesting.

Patrick Wicklander 40:30
How that works like, for me, like whenever I was on the road, it was always I will tell you guys scouting report, or cool be able to this time go to do that breakfast share, report, come back sleep. Or let's wake up. Let's let's get rolling.

Scott Benner 40:45
I gotta tell you guys I'm gonna generalize baseball players now are so interesting, because they're either moving 100 miles an hour, or they're sitting completely

Patrick Wicklander 40:54
100 I don't disagree with you on that one.

Scott Benner 40:59
I could watch my kid do something for six hours that I think like, I don't even know how anyone's doing that. And then it's back. There's that that rush you have to let that rush go through you like you know what I mean? Like where you're kind of jacked up, and then that goes away. And then that turns into Should I shower or eat shower or eat and then one of them happens then the other one happens and and then it's like, absolutely sedentary after that. And trying to

Patrick Wicklander 41:24
sit on the couch doing nothing, like few hours and just sleep.

Scott Benner 41:28
Yeah, exactly. It's very, it's taxing man. It's a lot and you're not having any trouble doing it with your what pump are you using?

Patrick Wicklander 41:37
within the tandem execution?

Scott Benner 41:39
Okay, so you're using control iQ? Yes, sir. Cool. That's excellent. So then that means you have the G six. Yep, yeah.

Patrick Wicklander 41:47
So wait on the g7 come up.

Scott Benner 41:49
I am interviewing someone from Dexcom on Monday, and we're gonna go over all the new stuff that's happening with G seven. I just need a release date. That's all I need. Yeah. them every time. And every time. They say that they're a publicly traded company. And they can't say stuff like that out loud. Because if they don't meet their dates, it's a problem for their stock and blah, blah, blah. And so, but I think, here's what I can tell you, if I'm talking to this person, it's getting closer because I interviewed the CEO a couple of weeks ago, and he kind of did a high level overview. But if they're letting me talk to this person to get more details, then that means things are starting to speed up. So sick. Yeah, I'm hoping for some time in this calendar year, because I mean, it's gonna be way better for, especially for active people, right? Like, it's just going to be lower profile, and they'll have leaving less of a chance to get a compression low or to to bump it on something. Um, let me ask you a little bit like, I don't know you obviously I see you through Instagram. But you appear to have a steady girlfriend. Is that right? Yes, sir. Yeah. How does she handle the diabetes thing?

Patrick Wicklander 42:53
So she wasn't with me during it. I actually met her after. I mean, so like, she'll joke all the time. She goes, if you're to like, if you're, like, going into a dumpster, I'm not gonna know what to do. I said, if I'm going into an episode is cuz I'm going to be too low. Right? So just give me some sort of sugar. As she goes, I don't know if I want to like if you're too high, I don't know if I'll be able to stab you. I said, you're going to have to

Scott Benner 43:21
listen, this is part of it. This is part of the contract. If we're going to be you could Um, there's their sponsor of the show. But g Volk, hypo pen is a glucagon pen that works very similarly to I feel like I have a sample here. But now I can't see it to just like an epi pen. So you just like click it and boom, and that's it. So if she was that worried you could get one of those. And that because I think anybody could do that.

Patrick Wicklander 43:51
No, when I was first diagnosed, my endo gave me like the nose like the sugar mill spray.

Scott Benner 43:56
Oh. I can't remember the name. Bass. Something. It's hard to be right.

Patrick Wicklander 44:02
Yeah, but I literally just I did it one time because I will get about 35 after coming back from Ole Miss. And I didn't want to restart a sensor at that time. So it is overnight and I woke up shaking. I say I need this. Let's try this. Let's figure this out.

Scott Benner 44:16
Did that make you think next time I'll put on a new sensor if it runs out?

Patrick Wicklander 44:21
No, it's not just a new sensor running. I was I got in at midnight. I'm like, I'm not staying up till 2am this start this. You sleep?

Scott Benner 44:32
Yeah. No, I hear you. It's It's It's gonna be interesting for you because you're living in a like a completely different world with diabetes than even a number of the guys that I've interviewed recently actually found the trainer pal. I can show it to you real quick. So this is obviously just a dummy. Would you pop the cap off and just and that's it. That's glucagon. So like crazy. So my daughter never used to carry blue. Got it. And then I became aware of this. And we got it for and now she carries it like before, you know, when the one with the red box and all that, like she's like, what am I gonna do with this? And she's like what? Like, my 16 year old friends are gonna figure this out. She's like, they can't figure anything out. I got to put them in charge of this. And but now now that she has that she carries her weather. But yeah, so timing, I mean, this is all going to be a thing for you, right? Like you're going to be, you've got to think that it's going to be alright, I'm going to be Yes, my question. I'm going to change in mid sent. So you have a training regimen, right? That works for you. You go there? Do you have an expectation that they're going to have ideas? Or do you have an expectation that you're just gonna keep doing what you're doing? Like, are you trying to add speed? Or what is your focus now,

Patrick Wicklander 45:49
we're not trying to add weight because if I add a weight, my velocity will go up, and I'll be able to maintain longer. And the thing is, obviously, I need to eat less in order to gain weight, gain weight, you need to eat an account calorie surplus. Yeah. So I just feel like if I'm doing that everything will be a little easier. I'm not I'm sure they had their ideas with me. But I always say kind of got adhere to what they're going to what they have. Right? So there's gonna be a bunch of bouncing ideas off one another and I'm, I'm really excited for it. Because I'm back home in Fresno one of the West Coast guys for the race is actually wanting to workout with like, he's a scout for him. So he kind of like

Scott Benner 46:34
shoot Patrick, you froze and said if I need anything, let him know. He'll be able to help you. Yeah, he'll be able help me so I mean, right now it's just kind of gaining weight. What do you give a go to to gain weight? Because I know my son talks about like how hard it is to eat that much food sometimes.

Unknown Speaker 46:51
It is.

Patrick Wicklander 46:53
Um, just a lot of chicken rice. I haven't really teriyaki chicken rice and beef fried rice.

Scott Benner 47:01
That sounds like my house make more rice make more rice make

Patrick Wicklander 47:05
it just keep putting, like what I what I needed to gain weight really fast. It was a lot of mass gainer and creatine. I still do I still take creatine but not as much as I used to. Okay,

Scott Benner 47:17
is that like a shake or something you can put into a drink.

Patrick Wicklander 47:19
So creatine, something you can base with anything I use myself my data raid, it just makes it a little more salty. That's what I got for me. But mass gainers like a protein shake. It's just over 5000 calories and a shake.

Scott Benner 47:33
Wow. I know he was he was telling me the other day. He's like, I gotta get something else. He's like, I can't keep eating all this. Because I think the thing people don't know is when you eat a lot of food. A lot of food comes out the other side too. Yeah. Not as much fun as it sounds like. Okay, is there anything? I'm not asking you that that you think I'm missing? Before we like I'm not wrapping up right? The second I don't want to make sure I'm not missing something? Is there like you have some amazing experience or something that's happened or something you'd like to share with people?

Patrick Wicklander 48:06
I'm not it's just like, the amount like I'm sure you probably seen all social media like I don't know if you follow us on Twitter. Like I had two kids. Like, only kid wrote me a letter. Like our like natural like our new station, like a big deal about it. Like after the game. Like I had a camera in my face with a bright light. I was like this is this is right. Like just just to meet the kid. I mean, really great family really like a kid was down to earth. Like you could tell he was nervous. But he was very well spoken for being how old he is. I don't think he's any older than 10. Wow. Another one like I'm sure you saw, like, I have type one too. We're close by here. I'm sure you saw that sign somewhere. Yeah. And so I asked one of our news reporters see if she could like reach out because I was like, I don't even know where to start to reach out to find this.

Scott Benner 48:55
right to say hello. Well, I would say that the thing you're doing right now talking to me that you probably don't even realize, and I only know because I've spoken to so many people is there's a calm matter of factness about you. It's a it's a blue collar vibe. Like, just keep going, that kind of thing that I think people will find comforting because this happens. You know, somebody is diagnosed, it's a child or it's an adult. And if you don't have that vibe, you could get sucked down a real crazy path, you know, out of nowhere, you start panicking and worrying and stop doing things. I mean, you're as active as a human being can be. And and you have type one, and you're doing, you're doing really well. So do you have any idea where your agency is right now? Last time I checked, it was 5.1. Yeah. Are you doing really well. So all we're really talking about here is an active reasonably healthy lifestyle, right?

Patrick Wicklander 49:52
I mean, I'm like I'm, I feel like I'm doing everything a doctor tells you to do to try to avoid trying to avoid getting down

Scott Benner 50:01
Yeah, yeah, the idea of like, this is a healthy way to live. And yeah, but anybody with anybody,

Patrick Wicklander 50:06
right? And it's just like another thing like, I just like the first few weeks, it was hard for me because I was like, this sucks. I really like it's something like I'm not like didn't really want to take care of half the time like when I woke up with alone like I really don't want to get up. Yeah, I get my guys column go off. I'm like, this is gonna piss me off. But then I mean, actually being diagnosed is probably like I've told scouts, this has been a blessing in disguise. Knock on wood haven't had any setbacks. Just everything way right? weight, room wise, baseball wise has done nothing but my numbers are up on the field has been so much better just because it's just like, it's like I got something to pay attention to. That's literally life or death. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:58
It helps you focus, I think, is just Tom Cole last night, some of the healthiest people I've ever met in my life have diabetes, because they're so aware of themselves. You know, they're aware of what they're eating. They're aware of what they're doing these things that most people who don't have health issues, get to pretend I'm going to live forever. And you can just do whatever you want. Right? And when you suddenly realize like, if I don't do the right thing today, it's going to adversely impact me today and maybe down the road. It can give you like a real clarity and, and make you feel like paying attention to your own health is important. And I imagine you're finding that the closer attention you pay to some of the things the easier the day goes.

Patrick Wicklander 51:43
On probably that's just it's because I'm very routine driven. I'm sure you you've seen out there sound like baseball players are very routine driven. Yeah. Being able to like stick to a routine and keep it that's it's not only made my life easier, it's made everything else I do easier.

Scott Benner 52:01
How are you making out with the heat like in the set? Is it harder? Playing in a hot, like humid climate?

Patrick Wicklander 52:08
When I play, I don't shoot down. The adrenaline actually shoots me up. Okay. So during the game I love like the controller IQ guys like after eaching I checked it. I checked my ball and it was like, Oh, you're at 98 with a downward down. Downside. They're like alright, cool. Let's chug some Gatorade. It's usually the Gator that's mixed in so it's really sugary. This is gonna be great.

Scott Benner 52:34
Sam fold is the GM of the Phillies now, but he's been on a couple of times. And he and you know, had diabetes long time ago. So he would say if you see old tape of me, and I'm in centerfield chewing gum, I thought I was getting low. And if I'm chewing seeds, I thought I was okay. Like it was just sort of like that easy. You know? I think that's, it's funny because you're gonna find as you get, as you, you know, blossoming, this, people with diabetes are gonna come to you, they're gonna want to know your secret because they're gonna think there's a secret. And I'm here to tell them that I've interviewed a lot of athletes, and they don't have a secret that you don't have. Like, they're just living their life, too. I just, I just keep going. Just don't stop, right. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. So all right. Well, I mean, I can't thank you enough for doing this is really cool. I want to wish you a ton of luck. Tampa. Sounds like a nice place to live. So hopefully,

Patrick Wicklander 53:31
I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be fun to get going.

Scott Benner 53:35
If everything goes right for you. And I just mean, like, there's no setbacks and your progress happens where it happens. When do you think you'd be ready to pitch in a pro game? How many years do you think it takes?

Patrick Wicklander 53:48
No more than a major leagues? Yeah, more than no more than three. Okay.

Scott Benner 53:53
I just think that's surprising for people like to know that beginning because football, you get drafted. And they're like, Listen, go home, pack your stuff up, get back out here and go try to sack somebody because that is a different it's a different pathway. You know,

Patrick Wicklander 54:08
similar basketball. That's one thing a lot of people like, they're like, Oh, are you in the miners? I like Yeah. Oh, the other miners I gotta, like, if you watch Major League pitchers, everything they do is very methodical. It's perfect. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just like, I barely know what I'm going to eat for breakfast or dinner that night.

Scott Benner 54:29
You got things to figure out. So I'll tell you that I'm a proponent. Because I've seen baseball from the side of somebody playing it, that you when you're watching a baseball game, and you're watching a pitcher, and they're and they're just sucking. That's still one of the best baseball pitchers in the whole world right there. You know, like that's that that's something to keep in mind that if you stood up there as a regular person, and the worst Major League Baseball pitcher threw a pitch to you, you'd cry. And you know, it would be frightening. And you would cry and go Way, and you would probably swing the bat a full second and a half after the catcher caught the ball. Like it just it's crazy. What Yeah,

Patrick Wicklander 55:08
like you see people like absolutely dogging on someone who's given up like four or five runs out like, he's in the big leagues. Yeah, that's right.

Scott Benner 55:17
Those guys can hit too, by the way. It turns into a real it's a game of perfection. Like I think of baseball, like progresses, I used to tell my son, you know, I'm like, Look, the, when he was really thinking about like, I want to play in college. And he was still small, like he recruited like, this will mean something to you, I think my son recruited at like five, nine 150 pounds, right? And he's six feet 190. Now he just grew late. And so it wasn't okay. You know, for what he was trying to accomplish his skills were there, we'd go to these things. And I remember in Georgia scout from North Carolina came up to me and was like, Hey, your kid's got a ton of skill. I wish he was bigger. I was like, that doesn't make anybody happy to say Don't say that, please. You know, but like, that was the vibe. And so what I'm trying to make it feel better about it. I said, Look, man, the year you started playing Little League, when you were five, 4 million American boys started playing Little League Baseball. And this year, 9000 of them are going to go play in college. I was like, you just got to keep going. Like you just go wherever they'll take you and maybe you'll grow and maybe you won't. And you'll find out, you know. But you're up at the top. Now there's very little left to hold on to and this is just you. And I mean, how many how many minor league baseball players? Are there?

Patrick Wicklander 56:40
There's 1000. I will be playing like 1000 guys on a major league roster. Yeah. And every year, right?

Scott Benner 56:47
That's that follow kids down to 1000. Yeah. And then and they're all different ages, they're not even out of the same 4 million like the odds. They're get like, I'm not good at math. But, you know, once you're in this situation, the situation you're in right now is statistically improbable.

Patrick Wicklander 57:06
Yeah, I'm not just like not only competing against other guys in this country. I'm competing internationally.

Scott Benner 57:12
Yeah. Oh, no. You kidding me? Like, sometimes you watch baseball and like there seems like there's an endless, like supply of people who, who weren't born in America didn't go to college in America didn't play baseball in America. And you're like their that you're competing with them? You're competing with other guy. I mean, that's why I think being in the minors from college, I think it's a big deal. It really is. Because there are other countries where they would have like, saw you at 15 taking you out of school and said throw this baseball on, if your arm doesn't blow up, we're gonna see if we can't get you a job one day. Like, you still had to live a life and go to school and hang out at the mall and stuff like that.

Patrick Wicklander 57:54
You know what I mean? No, no, I totally get why the international people signed so early. Like I get it. But um, I've seen it firsthand. It's just, it's, it's the way they live. Yeah. No, I understand it. And they love playing baseball, too. Yeah. Oh, they that's why they play every second night. They're the number one guy on the team. I love it. I love the flair.

Scott Benner 58:18
It's hilarious. And I it's good for baseball too, by the way, a couple years ago when they tried to like PR campaign about having fun. I thought that's a good idea. Because, you know, it's not 1950 and I don't expect these out guys. They'll walk around like, you know, they're super serious. They hit the ball, and then they just wander around that. It's it's fun watching those guys have a good time while they're playing. It's good for the sport. But I will say this. I think I think that changing baseball for a market that wants the game to go faster is not a great idea. Like I think baseball is great for people who love baseball. You shouldn't make it something else. Because then I don't know that I would like it. That makes sense.

Patrick Wicklander 59:03
Yeah, um, I see your view. It's just one of those things is like, trying to get grow the game. Yeah, but you see, like, before everything happened with Trevor, like you like if you watch his vlogs that's what got me through COVID just that excitement. Yeah, it's just like, this is the inside life of a baseball player for the reds. Right. And it was like one of the things this is really cool to watch like his whole channel that he started. It was just like, when I couldn't do it. I could watch it.

Scott Benner 59:33
No, I just think I think sometimes baseball games take four hours and too bad if you don't like it. And twice a year. The backup left fielder is going to be pitching in the 15th inning and too bad if you don't like that's the game, you know.

Patrick Wicklander 59:47
So I wouldn't position players purchase the best thing in the world, especially in Major League Baseball.

Scott Benner 59:51
So funny. A couple of years ago, Velasquez had to come in and play left field for the Phillies and he made some crazy catches. Through a guy, how did Whoa. It's amazing. Like Like, that was that was the probably the only thing I remember from that year. And that's the thing they want to get rid of. And I'm like, No, like, there's something about it. Listen, if you ever tried to hit a fastball, or you ever tried to throw one pass somebody, you would know that when it's 95 degrees outside, and there's sweat rolling down your back, and you can't kind of find the spot where your foot fits that you need a second before you're going to throw this ball. Because if you throw it wrong, that it's something bad's gonna happen in a second. And it's, and guys got to be able to step out of the box and tighten their gloves again. And that might seem silly to you. But there's a way that bat feels in their hand, you know, and they needed to be like that before they swing. And I don't know, there's something about that I find kind of poetic, and I like it. So anyway, I hope it's that way, I hope you play forever. And I hope it's that way. I hope, moreover, that, um, you might come back and do this again sometime. Because it would be interesting to see how it grows. And I would love to when you first mentioned, messaged me, you go, Yeah, like, I hosted like one of the things diabetic. So I go look at I was like, holy crap. Like, just the amount of episodes I'm gonna listen, like, I'm scrolling through Spotify. I'm like, wow, there's a lot there. I know, I said, I said something like, because you have to try to imagine if you're me, you're reaching out to a person you don't know. In most expectations, I had that in a couple of weeks from then you're gonna get drafted. And I'm like, you know, can you come on my diabetes podcast, which is a it's a, it's a weird thing to say out loud. So I think I gave you some stats about the podcast. And I said, I know that's a weird flex. You don't hear a lot of people don't know, you'll hear a lot of people going, may I tell you about the downloads on my diabetes podcast. But I just wanted you to know you won't be wasting your time that people would hear you, you know? No, I appreciate it. That's awesome. That's a weird place. Hey, I'd be typing every every. See, I need to hang out with more guys. Like you really get to tell people. I would if I was you, I would write how fast I threw on my forehead and a sharpie. So as I approached people, they were aware that

hey, huge thanks to Patrick for coming on the show and sharing all of that, and I want to wish him a ton of success in Major League Baseball. If you'd like to follow Patrick, he's on Instagram. His handle is at Patrick wick lander. It's spelled just like it sounds. Give him a follow. Chairman. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget the sponsors if you need them, use my links. That'd be terrific. If you're listening right now, for the first time, subscribe in your podcast app or following your podcast app. Some of them use different words. If you're having trouble finding a podcast app, there's a bunch of links that Juicebox Podcast com