#752 If It Pleases the Court

Anonymous Female guest has type 1 diabetes and good story.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
You're listening to Episode 752 of the Juicebox Podcast

Guest is with me today she is an adult living with type one diabetes. And we're going to cover a multitude of things, including her road from a one season attends to the sixes, and everything that got her from where she started to where she is. Now. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have the time, and by the time I mean fewer than 10 minutes, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and fill out the survey. All you have to be as a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one. Your simple answers to simple questions will help people living with type one diabetes, they'll support the podcast and they may even help you t one D exchange.org Ford slash juice box

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod five, learn more and get started today at Omni pod.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by Arden's blood glucose meter. The Contour Next One, and you can learn about that little gem at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox Are you nervous? You okay?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:55
I was nervous and I bless nervous now.

Scott Benner 1:58
When were you nervous?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:00
Oh, I was driving in to I'm it's I'm calling you from school. And so I had my commute to like, what am I gonna say? What am I not gonna say? And so, you know, I did 45 minutes of anxiety. And now we're here.

Scott Benner 2:16
You shouldn't have told me that because though. But anyway, go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll kick on.

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:20
We'll go from there. Cool. So I'm, I have been diabetic. I was doing the math this morning for 20 years. And I am currently in law school.

Scott Benner 2:37
That's fancy. I'll tell you something. This weekend, we took our son on a trip to visit a college. And I think I think this is going to be the one she wants to go to. So we're sitting with it's funny, the counselor but I just looked at her and thought salesperson, this is the salesperson for the right. And I was like I've never seen a counselor this pretty before in my entire life. I'm being marketed to you know, not that she didn't know what she was talking about. She just looked like a runway model, which struck me as strange. And not that runway models don't need jobs.

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:14
I got to do something after you know the walking down the

Scott Benner 3:18
parks over right. Yeah, so anyway, lovely person, not the point. And she asks Arden, if you don't get in here, what else do you think you might do? And Arden had already been accepted to the school. So are in school. I've already been accepted here. Excuse me, I'm dying. Give me a second attention lady looked down at your paper. And what kind of sales job is this? You don't even know what you're trying to sell them. But anyway, she says to Arden, like, you know, what else might you do? And Arden goes, I think if I didn't do this, and by the way, it's fashion design. Arden because I probably be pre law.

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:57
I love it. I love it. The Kids Are All Right.

Scott Benner 4:01
Just like I was like, wow, I didn't have enough confidence to think I could do one thing when I was 17. And she's like, I don't know, I might do something way over here or way over there doesn't matter.

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:11
That's how I ended up in law school at 33 is I didn't have the competence to do it when I was artists. Ah, no kidding.

Scott Benner 4:18
What did you What did you go into college for?

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:21
I did college for international relations. And then mostly because I wanted to travel. And I thought I could help solve problems elsewhere. Then I became a teacher. And then I was a community organizer for about 10 years before law school.

Scott Benner 4:39
Oh, so you decided not to be president? Because I thought that was a presidency. No.

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:44
I like they haven't been letting ladies be presidents lately. lately.

Scott Benner 4:48
Not yet. My husband

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:51
wouldn't either. This has been farmed out.

Scott Benner 4:55
He's not looking to be on camera. I'll tell you what, though. They've done a really good job of discipline. hearing what's his name? Isn't that crazy? Oh, my goodness. He's been the first vice president, man. Like, I don't even know what that is for.

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:09
Oh, I was like, What guy? We

Scott Benner 5:12
don't know.

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:14
His name is Doug.

Scott Benner 5:15
His name is Doug. So you're telling me that Kamala Harris, his husband's name is Doug. Yes. That's what I'm telling you and what hold on and what is it Kamala? It's Kamala, right. Yeah. Kamala Kamala, I'm doing that wrong, too. We'll see. No, don't be sorry. My point is, is that if this I'm Doug emhoff. How crazy is that? You? Did you know that? You just need a dog? No, I

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:43
knew it was stuck. Mm hmm. I am a nerd.

Scott Benner 5:45
I'm trying not to show me. You were trying to post nice. See, I was trying to make the point that it wouldn't matter. Nobody would know who your husband was. Anyway, if you were doing that, but turns out you would know so

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:57
he's more likable than I am. They would all love him. Your heart of the Chest. Chest into Pete Buda, Judge.

Scott Benner 6:06
Husband sort of jasmine, we, I'm confused. Your husband's more likable than you are. Yes. How was that possible? You seem delightful.

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:16
He's a botanist. And so while I talk about politics and why the world is broken, he talks about trees likable.

Scott Benner 6:25
So he's just giving people less to think about so it's easier to be around him.

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:30
He makes a good cocktail. It's good.

Scott Benner 6:33
It's a good egg. Has he ever looked at a tree longingly in a way that made you uncomfortable? Um, I can't say no. Excellent. Okay. All right. How old were you when you're diagnosed with type one?

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:48
I was in ninth grade? I don't know. Maybe 13. Okay. So, the story there? Yeah. 20 years. So the story is, I was in junior high, they do it differently in Arizona. And I had to go to the bathroom constantly. I was so thirsty. I was like running between classes. And I went to my parents. I said, there is something wrong with me. I don't know what it is. Or there's something wrong with me. And my parents were like, you're growing, you're changing, like things are fine. It you know, bodies are weird. And I was like, no, no, there's something amiss. And they were like, nah. Um, and this went on for probably three months or so before we took a road trip, the classic road trip story, from Phoenix to Denver to see some family. And it was like every gas station on the road, like maybe not even gas stations, just like wherever we could find that we had to stop for me and my parents were like, there's something wrong with you. And I was like, I've been telling you that is that is true. Yes.

Scott Benner 7:56
Your parents not therapists or kindergarten teachers, obviously. Right? Right.

Anonymous Female Speaker 8:03
And so we went home, we did the whole vacation, and then went home. And at home, my uncle is diabetic. And so we tested. And I was like 501. And my parents were like, That's problematic. And so even then, like, we didn't rush to the ER unnecessarily, it was like, I'll call the doctor and see what they say. And the doctor tried to put us off for like, a week and a half. I was and then I asked my mom, did you tell her that the blood sugar was 501. And she was like, well now. And I was like, call her back and tell her that information. And then shoot, they were like, You have to come in immediately. And so somebody that I had been living with then so like Surly and overly confident. 13 year old became an emergency. Despite the fact that I was like, No, I've whatever this is, it's been here for three months.

Scott Benner 8:57
Yeah. How long have you been the adult in the relationship between you and your parents?

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:03
Maybe the whole time? No, I my parents are great, but like their child rearing philosophy was sort of like if we just treat you like an adult then like, you'll be an adult and it will be great. And for the most part, like I cooperated with that philosophy. I had straight A's I my like, weird rebellion was going to church like my parents were more like this is this is lovely. And so they were I think they were totally unprepared for something like diabetes to happen.

Scott Benner 9:35
Margie, do you think she'll use heroin? No, I think she's gonna go to church. That's great. So you so your parents, your parents were not very religious. So the way you rebelled against them was going to church?

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:46
Yes, my parents met each other on a blind date went home together that night. Then three nights later, moved all my mom's stuff into my dad's apartment and have been together Ever since. And so they they're just a little wild.

Scott Benner 10:04
Wow. They hooked up like lesbians. That's fast. Yeah. You have you ever been naked in front of your husband with the lights

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:12
on? SCOTT I can I can say yes to that question. Oh,

Scott Benner 10:23
there you go. I just love that as a child, you were like, I need to push back against these people. I'm gonna find religion. Did you find religion? Are you just going to church for a little while? I would

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:34
say I found religion. And then I do better. Yeah, well, I gave back religion. I don't know that I gave back God. But I gave back religion. I was like this. This was meant to control women. And I'm not that into

Scott Benner 10:47
it. Oh, you didn't like what you found. But you like the idea.

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:51
I like the idea of community. I like the idea of faith. I like the idea that there are things we can't explain. And I didn't like the patriarchal structure and this idea that, you know, yeah, there was there's a lot of things about church that didn't sit right with me.

Scott Benner 11:11
By the way. I don't know if this is narcissism, but I think I could explain almost anything, if you ask me. I think I'm not sure if I'd be right or not. But I come up with an explanation.

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:21
You and every law student? Oh, really?

Scott Benner 11:23
Is that how they work? Do you ever heard me talk about on the podcast that my eighth grade guidance counselor tried to get me to be an attorney?

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:31
I haven't heard you talk about it. I've considered it. And I think you would hate it. Because for sure, arguing arguing is great. But like the way that the law works is that whatever was decided before must be the basis for what happens next. And you'd be like, Well, what the why that that? I have a more elegant solution. Like why?

Scott Benner 11:54
No, I even knew back then when he said it. I was like, I think you're misunderstanding who I am fundamentally. But I mean, I think I could probably functionally do it, if that's what you're asking me, but I don't think I would want to. And if you've anybody who's ever heard if you've ever been in a business meeting with me, because this podcast is actually a business, and, you know, like I have to meet with people and have like real like adult conversations about how things get said and ads, for example, or, you know, you know, talking about money about paying for ads, stuff like that. And so I get into these very oddly, corporate settings, where people who are dressed very nicely, are sit sat up very properly in front of me, and I just, I don't talk any differently in those meetings that I do on this blog.

Anonymous Female Speaker 12:45
I think that's low key, the rebellion, I'm here for honestly,

Scott Benner 12:49
I'll come downstairs after a call. And my wife will say, actually, I'll just tell you an actual story. So I'm very friendly with the person who, who initially bought ads on the show for on the pod, but that person does not work from the pod anymore. They're actually out of the diabetes space completely. And I contacted them. And I was like, Hey, listen, I'm about to have a meeting with Medtronic about in pen. And I think they're going to come on as advertisers for NPN. And, you know, I don't I forgot what the question was the question I had for really, it's not important. What's important is at the end of the conversation, she said, Hey, in your first call, try to keep it to under three font. And I was like, I was like, that's your, that's your she goes, yeah, she's like, you know, you're gonna curse. And I was like, right. She's like, just don't do it too much right away until they know you. And I was like, Okay, so my, so the call finishes, my wife has no idea about this conversation I had with my friend, I get off the call, and I come downstairs and my wife goes, How many times did you curse on the call? And I was like, okay, half a dozen, but I kept the ducks to under three. And my wife said, I don't understand how you do business with people. I was like, I think it's the same as the podcast. I was like, it's, you know, we just talk like real people. And if it doesn't work out for me, I kind of don't care. You know, so I tell people all the time, I'm like, Look, you know, if we're going to do business together, you should no, this is me, like, this is how this is gonna go, if that makes you uncomfortable. You want to jump, you know, so

Anonymous Female Speaker 14:23
well. And so in my training as a community organizer, you will learn that a way to get people to share things with you is to be vulnerable with them. And so I find that like, sort of the engineered, swearing, etc. Just being who I am in a space often creates like better connection and relationship with people and so even if it isn't like the right norm for the space, I think that the vulnerability like transcends what you're supposed to do. And also, if I if I wrote a memoir that had to be titled in less than six words, it would Be my mom's favorite word is. So you're gonna get the fuck either way,

Scott Benner 15:06
when I'm gonna tell you a story, and I'm gonna keep the word out of it, but when we were young, like really young, 1920 years old, we were in a diner and I was philosophizing with my friends. And I said that I think there's a way to say anything to people, and have them accept it. Like, you know, by that I mean, not brushed up against it. And I was trying to make a bigger point about language and eye contact and communication and stuff like that. And so one of my stupid friends said, like, you couldn't say anything to anybody. And she's, and this guy says, I'm totally have to bleep this out. And also, I'm going to apologize to you ahead of time, but for context, he said, You can't use the word of the waitress without offending her. And I was like, I betcha I could. And I don't know. I don't know what made me say that. But I did say to him, I'm gonna need three tries at this because we bet money, you know, and I was pretty sure it wasn't gonna go right the first time, but it still didn't dissuade me. And I didn't say it directly to her. It's not like I identified her that way or addressed her I tried to work it into it did not go well, the first time. But we had to leave a really big tip. So probably all the money I eventually want on the bed I lost on. Like, as I was like, we're really sorry. But I did figure it out, I did figure out a way to talk to people in a way that, like nowadays, they people talk about, it's like you meet people where they are. Yeah, and there's part of that, that I believe is true. But there's a big piece of it that I believe is true, that you just said is about, like, if I'm not hiding anything, then I'm not a threat to you, in any way. Right? Like, I mean, you guys don't know me. Like, you know, empirically, but you know me pretty well. Like I'm not hiding any big things about me. And then, to me, that's the pathway to talk to people about diabetes, and have it be relatable and something you can actually absorb. But we should probably talk about your diabetes a little bit. No, I,

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:07
I was just gonna say that, I think that had something like the podcast. And specifically, like your approach to the podcast existed when I was 13. I think in particular, my dad's entry point might have been totally different. But my so in my diagnosis, story, fasting, fast forwarding to the ER, the doctor is in a panic, I am not in a panic, I am fighting this doctors nonsense to be nonsense. And that will be the theme of how I approach doctors moving forward in my diabetic life. But they they rush us from one side of town to the other side of town, to get us with in with the very best Endo. And he he says a lot of things, but he quickly shuffles us into a room with a diabetic educator, who was not speaking to my family and to me in the in a way that felt like they were being taken seriously. She was sort of trying to go really slow and explain it in a really elementary way. And no, my parents are wild, they are also very smart. And so they started to feel sort of tucked down to about diabetes. And I would say like, within 10 minutes, my dad had left the room, found out how much we were being charged per hour for this experience, came back in and said, Lady, you got 15 minutes, wrap it up. And so then we left and like that was the extent of my diabetic education. Um, yeah, so it, I just think things would have gone differently. But there wasn't, there wasn't an internet, there wasn't podcasts. And there certainly wasn't anyone talking about diabetes in a way that was like, relatable or tangible or approachable.

Scott Benner 19:02
Yeah, I will say that, um, it's always been, I really, I want to make sure that I preface this by saying like, I'm not coming down on anybody. For certain because a lot of good has been done for people over the years, by a lot of people. But when I launched my blog, it was pretty early on in blogging, and it none of this high mindedness about how to help people was in my head. Like, I was really just trying to draw attention to diabetes. And I thought, while I'm not a doctor, like I can't really help, like, I wonder if I can help this way. But I noticed pretty quickly and maybe it was just a function of the fact that it was new or that technology didn't exist the way it does now. But but people who talk to other people about diabetes mainly did what I call like, like raw nerve blogging, you don't I mean, like, they're like, this is how I feel. And then other people would run up and be like, I feel like this too, and they'd be like, we feel like this together. And then that was the end of it. And I always just thought like you're not gonna To help each other, you just gotta, like, look each other in the face and go, Hey, this sucks, right? Like, how does that, like, why don't we try to make it not suck? Like, wouldn't that be interesting, you know?

Anonymous Female Speaker 20:11
Well, and the timing of my diabetes was such that I was diagnosed, sort of, in the nascent stage of the internet. And then as I was coming of age and trying to figure it out, there was that sort of diabetic community that you're describing. And I was 0% interested in that, because I was like, No, I want the solution to my problems. I really don't want to dwell on having diabetes, I don't even like having diabetes, I just want a solution. And so I disconnected from any sort of, like information source, I would say, and so I've heard you sometimes talk about diabetics is like, this diabetic, or this is the sort of person that should get it. And I would classify myself as someone who like should have gotten diabetes, and understood it. But I didn't, I spent like, probably the first 12 or 15 years of, of my diabetes career. No, it's not a career. But of my diagnosis, being relatively uncontrolled, I saw the endo regularly, I took my Lantis every day and my my endo was cranky, my Lantis because he could tell that I wasn't doing anything else. But as a teenager, it was like, I have these four data points in the day, and I don't know what to do with them. I don't know how insulin works, really. And so I have these four data points that just say I'm bad at this. And there's nothing else in my life that I'm really extraordinarily bad at. So I'm just not going to do it. And I did that for probably close to 15 years. And I'd have like moments of like, I really want to be good at this. I'm gonna like make this chart and like do a week of testing. But I couldn't get past the end, like this probably won't make a lot of sense to people who, you know, enter diabetes with a Dexcom. Now, but it really was a different era and diabetes, when you had, you know, these four test strips that you were supposed to somehow figure out what was happening. And I just like couldn't do it. And, like, I'm not the sort of person that that meets obstacles and like, walks away from them. But I did walk away from diabetes for a long time.

Scott Benner 22:43
At some point on your diabetes journey, a person gave you a blood glucose meter. Did they say to you, hey, this is a great blood glucose meter, it's one of the most accurate ones that they ever made. No, no, no one said that. Did they say, by the way, there are other blood glucose meters, you might want to look into it. I'm just gonna give you this one because I haven't here in the drawer. Nope, they don't say that either. They just gave it to you. And you thought, Well, this must be my blood glucose meter, because the doctor gave it to me. But there are many meters. And they're not all made equally. You deserve an accurate, well made and easy to use blood glucose meter, you deserve the Contour. Next One. The Contour. Next One is my favorite blood glucose meter. I know that's a strange thing to say. But we've used a number of them over the years. And this one is my favorite. Why? Bright light for use at night, the screen super easy to read. It's manageable. And by that I mean it's a good size. It's not too big. It's not too small. And I love the way it fits in my hand. It's sort of because of the shape which you'll see it contour next.com forward slash juicebox almost feels like you're holding up like a pen in your hand. I don't know how to put it exactly. You'll see when you get to the website. But the Contour Next One blood glucose meter is incredibly accurate. But you might be worried Scott all this accuracy. Is it more expensive? Am I going to be paying a bunch more money? I don't think so. Actually, if you go to contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. You can actually buy it right now at a number of online venues. Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, the list goes on and on target Rite Aid. And so when you get to my link, check it out. Because you might be able to save time and money buying contour next products from the convenience of your home. What am I saying? Well, I'm saying that it's possible that this meter and the test strips could be cheaper in cash than you're paying right now through your insurance company for an inferior product are crazy is that you owe it to yourself to be using the best equipment that you can and there's no reason not to check out the Contour Next One blood glucose is meter contour next.com forward slash juice box the Omni pod five automated insulin delivery system is available now and waiting for you at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Omni pod five is the only tubeless automated insulin delivery system that integrates with the Dexcom G six CGM, and it uses smart adjust technology to automatically adjust your insulin delivery every five minutes, helping to protect against highs and lows without multiple daily injections. Omni pod five is also available through your pharmacy, which means you can get started without the four year Durable Medical Equipment contract that comes with most insulin pumps, even when you're currently in warranty with another system. To get started today, go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Now for those of you who aren't in the market for an automated system, but still want an insulin pump, and love the idea of tubeless you're looking for the Omni pod dash, head over to my link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. While you're there, you'll be able to learn everything you need to know about the Omni pod five, and the Omni pod Dash. And you can also find out if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. My daughter Arden has been wearing the Omni pod since she was four years old, and she just turned 18 That is 14 years of wearing an omni pod every day. And it has been nothing but a friend in this journey with insulin. Because the Omni pod is tubeless you can wear it while you're showering, swimming, or participating in your favorite physical activity, it's a big deal to not have to disconnect from a tube pump to do those things. Head over now to Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box to find out if you're eligible for that free 30 day trial, the dash to learn more about the dash, or to learn more about the Omni pod five, get started today on the pod five full safety and risk information as well as a list of compatible phones and clinical trial claims data are available at my link. And at that same link omnipod.com forward slash juice box. You can also find terms and conditions for that on the pod dash 30 day trial.

mean how many times do you have to be faced with the idea that you have a problem in front of you, you don't functionally understand or have actual tools for I mean, how much of your life you're supposed to spend beating your head against that wall like it does help me understand your explanation helps me understand. When I hear adults say like, Well, I'm just trying to live without this getting in my way. You know,

Anonymous Female Speaker 27:51
and it was relatively successful. Like I was going to college I was I had a job. Like, it was fine. It wasn't great. I was tired all the time. And you know, but it was fine. And so I definitely understand the adult like I'm just trying to live my life. Yeah,

Scott Benner 28:10
I have to clear my throat I apologize one second.

I'm sorry. It's Brian here. me complaining, like I'm not in control of my home. Like it's drying here. put somebody on that I'm the person. By the way, if something happens, I'm gonna fix it also, lets everybody pause for a second and appreciate what a mind we have here with. She used nascent in the sentence didn't stop to think about it. I didn't notice that she was like, Oh, I'm not sure if I'm using nascent correctly. Just whipped it right out like it was a part of our everyday life. Good for you fancy.

Anonymous Female Speaker 28:54
Lucky I don't hang up the phone. Right. Why I

Scott Benner 28:56
thought it was great. I love it. There are times there are times I swallow big words because I'm like, not that nice and to pick word. It's just not a common anyway, not the point. So you are managing along. I'm guessing your parents put it on you right because they thought you're up for the challenge I bet.

Anonymous Female Speaker 29:16
Well, yeah, I think they thought I was up for the challenge. I certainly told them that I was up for the challenge. I told the doctor the night I was diagnosed that I would not be staying in the hospital that I had plans to go to the movies. And I ended up going to the movies that night so I wasn't the sort of kid that was going to be easily dissuaded. And I don't think they thought they had any other tools that I didn't have. And I think they'd never experienced a disease that like it wasn't just like take the pill and you'll be fine. Like I don't know that they fully understood the complexity of diabetes and the need to calibrate and the the ways that my body was going to change over time it I think they sort of thought, if you take your insulin when the doctor tells you then that, yeah, this is all fine.

Scott Benner 30:07
Yeah. And so isn't it great? How you're just like, I've got this, I'm not even staying here. I don't need any of this. And then for the next 15 years, you're like, Am I really a pain.

Anonymous Female Speaker 30:19
And I was wracked with guilt. I was like, I'm very bad at this. I would go to the doctor, like, once a year to get my I was still taking my long acting, I would go once a year, I would find new endocrinologist whenever I moved, so that I could get that prescription refilled, I wanted to be good at it. I wanted to be taking care of my self, and I like just couldn't do it. And I felt like it was like a personal moral failing that somehow I couldn't do this thing that it seemed like everyone else was doing. There wasn't this outcry that diabetes was this like, impossible disease, such that I was aware of. So I felt really bad about it for a long time, which like was more feelings that kept me from doing anything about it, because I was like, Oh, I feel bad when I think about that. So I

Scott Benner 31:10
won't talk about it. Right? Let me ask you a question. Like, your outcomes, like a one sees where they wildly high.

Anonymous Female Speaker 31:18
Usually 10s ish,

Scott Benner 31:21
okay. And nobody pushed back doctors, parents, nobody's like, Hey, we're doing the wrong thing here. Like, let's help her.

Anonymous Female Speaker 31:31
So I think that my Endo, my first endo was like, she's obviously not doing what she should be doing. I'm just gonna keep increasing her Lantis so that at least I could get some insulin. That's that and some coverage. And she's not reporting crazy lows. So I can just keep amping that up, up and up and up. And then I was steadfast, I will not get a pump, I do not want to pump. The the, the I had like a thing about, I didn't want to think on my body, how was I going to wear a bikini how was I going to wear a prom dress like it. And there was no adults to say, it doesn't really matter what you want. This is your health. And so I just sort of got away with it. And then, you know, and also sort of the luck of the draw. And so when I was in college, The End Note that I saw, I think he must have mostly seen type two diabetics because his recommendations to me were that I needed to eat the same meal at every, every day at the same time. And to start with oatmeal to start my day was like, none of that. None of that was right. And so I grew distrustful of doctors and just was like, this is something that I'm just gonna, yeah, it's just gonna be impossible.

Scott Benner 33:02
So was it your thought that you're a bright person? Was it your thought that I'm going to die sooner than I should? Did you ever consider that?

Anonymous Female Speaker 33:10
I knew that I would have complications. And I was concerned about it. But I didn't know really the contours. I think if somebody had told me, You're gonna have injections in your eye, I might have tried to do something

Scott Benner 33:23
harder, or that some of those complications might involve, you know, your heart thing. Yeah, well, and even

Anonymous Female Speaker 33:31
even just saying, like your kidneys or your feet or whatever. I don't think anybody like made it clear to be like, what that life would look like it was just like, be afraid that you these things might happen. And it wasn't tangible enough to feel like it ever really couldn't happen. It's sort of felt like I had gotten diabetes. That was a pretty hand. And so it was unlikely that I would then get these other terrible things as far as I was.

Scott Benner 33:58
Oh, you had that like a meteor already hit me thing. Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:04
And, and, like, compounded with the idea that I was already trying. I had tried it I had tried to do the right thing. And it wasn't working. So what you know, the definition of insanity, right? Like,

Scott Benner 34:22
do you just have any, like big psychological impacts on you aside of your health, like, were you? I mean, do you feel like you grew up in a way that was less healthy than then it could have been in your mind?

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:38
I think that I learned hyper independence at a young age. And I think that it made me hesitant to connect with people and less like dependent on people that I in my 30 certainly have been trying to like unlearn. But I also think that those same things led to a lot of my success. And so it's hard to say like, this was on that, like, on that, excuse me, and that negative when, like, you know, I'm in law school on a scholarship, like these things wouldn't happen unless I had learned, really, at a young age, how to take care of the things I needed to take care

Scott Benner 35:21
of. So interesting hearing you talk like that, because you basically just argued both sides of your issue, and both sides seem kind of positive, you're like, you were like, I learned to be very independent, which is a bad thing, because I'm guessing the rest of that sentence was I don't let people in and don't let people help me. And then the but the other side of it is I'm having success. Because, you know, enough, I gotta stop me. Like I say it a different way. When I tell people like, right, I always say like, if the zombies come you come find me because I'll be okay, when this is over. But the but the rest of that sentence is because my father was pretty horrible. And I know how to live through horrible, you know, and it's not it, and would you give one back for the other like, would die. Like, you know, if my parents were like, warden June Cleaver, which I'm pretty sure as a reference, literally no one's gonna get at this point. But I was all like, soft and, you know, couldn't stick up for myself, like, what I'd make that trade or, you know, what I trade, uh, you know what I would, I'm okay with a couple of backhands at a 10 years old for saying the wrong thing. And God knows, I don't remember what the wrong thing was anymore. But but, you know, like, is part of that valuable in one way? Not valuable in another way? Look, it sounds like I'm arguing for child abuse. But I'm not. I'm trying to say, I mean, what's the saying? Tough. Something about pressure and diamonds. Right? You know, yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 36:55
Right. When you, you know, just makes diamonds or whatever?

Scott Benner 36:59
Or is that just a bowl thing that somebody made up to try to feel better about the fact that their father was throwing them into a wall? Like you don't I mean, like, I don't know. But anyway, it's interesting.

Anonymous Female Speaker 37:10
Well, and to be clear, my my parents were both like lovely and supportive and showed up at every dive meet and gymnastics meet and tennis, whatever. orchestra concert, you name it, they were there. I just think that they weren't ever able to wrap their heads around diabetes in that particular way. But I take your point about, you know, how those things then shaped who you are, because the way that I handled the way that I handled diabetes for so long, I was able to do because I was resourceful. Like, I think I would have maybe found some people to like, shake it out of me or intervene. But I was never I've never been hospitalized for diabetes, highs or lows. I've never, you know, had any really scary episode. Well, there is a scary episode that we should probably talk about, but never anything that made someone say that your life is off the rails, I was always able to say, oh, there's a Snapple stand, I'll just grab a juice or Oh, like, my, when I was a teenager, we were hiking in the Grand Canyon. And I happen to not have anything but the guy that would later be my husband was like, Oh, I have these weird, like cyclist. Jelly packs that we use for energy at will those work. And so I was always able to like, find a way because that hyper independence had given me the skills to be really good at figuring out any particular complicated situation. i But yeah,

Scott Benner 38:48
I've been pretty fascinated lately. And I'm watching people like, contradict themselves, like guy, I just put up an episode today, actually, that was recorded probably six months ago, with these two kids were in grad school together. And I was kind of focused in that episode about how the guy kept saying, you know, I didn't let diabetes hold my hold me back. But of course, his health outcomes were not good. But right in his mind, it didn't hold him back. And then the other part so he had had diabetes for a very long time. The other person in the in the episode Tori, she was more newly diagnosed came up through the podcast. And I asked her I was like Tory, does diabetes hold you back? And she said, No, I was like, but Tories they wouldn't see us lower and more stable. So it is a function a little bit of how you come up with it, the technology and the ideas that were available as you were coming up. I apologize. And and at the same time, you know, everyone does the same thing. It's always like, Oh, my parents were great. But they weren't but they were like, like there's a weird like dichotomy in there, right? Like your parents weren't like absentee people, and they weren't like disinterested, they just didn't have enough information to take it seriously. And you're even saying, the understanding of long term complications where just a person standing in front of you go on your feet, your kidneys, you're gonna pee blood, like you don't even like just nothing. Nothing tangible that you could be, you could wrap your head around, and it probably seems so far out in the future like it was never going to happen. My example that always is that people smoke all the time, and everyone thinks they're the ones that it won't get me. I'm okay. Gonna go. It's gonna give everyone else lung cancer, but not you like that. That's how people think. Right? I do think that's preservation.

Anonymous Female Speaker 40:44
Yeah, well, and like I said, I really believed that. If I could have done something, I would have done it. But I had tried and tried and tried and felt like, well, the complication, if the complications are gonna come, they're gonna come because I tried my hand at this. And it's just that it's not

Scott Benner 41:02
for me, I'm not gonna worry about something I can't stop. Right. But you were also a child when you were having those thoughts.

Anonymous Female Speaker 41:09
Well, I was when I started, and then that's it went well through my 20s.

Scott Benner 41:15
Do you think there's no winning? Like, when I say to somebody, Hey, would you have liked it? If your parents were more involved? They'll say, yeah, if my parents were more involved, I would understand this bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. And this all would have went better. But then you talk to somebody whose parents were very involved, and you're like, Hey, how was it? Your parents been very involved? I didn't like it. They were constantly on my back. Like, is it just the scenario where you just can't win? Like you, no matter what you do, you're gonna want the opposite.

Anonymous Female Speaker 41:43
I mean, I think anything taken to its extreme is probably going to be problematic. I think where, because I rebelled hard against my, the, what my parents tried to do, I pushed back on and it was uncomfortable for everyone involved. And so I think, for me, it just would have been a few key moments of like insisting that I was on a pump, or or just? I don't know, it's, it's a good question, because I definitely wasn't the sort of child that was going to be babysat. And then they kind of way, I had developed enough independence at that point that truly, if every meal was like, What's your blood sugar, I might have murdered someone. And so but on the flip side, there, there did need to be someone in the room to be a more rational, objective person. It's interesting, because in many ways, my partner my husband is now does that for me. So I, the next sort of chapter in the story is that when I tried to get into control, eventually, I had a really scary episode, and developed a severe fear of low blood sugar, which I had never had for them, you know, 15 years, and he has become someone who can be we call it like the astronaut brain. Because astronauts are always looking for like, what's the next thing that's gonna kill me, but it has to be calibrated because it can't panic while you're in space. And he has a very, like, grounded logical brain that allows him to look at a situation and say, okay, the number the line is starting to get flat. Now, I can see logically the line is starting to get flattened now, where when I'm in a, when I'm in an anxious moment, he I will just be like, well, but maybe I should drink some more apple juice, maybe maybe I should just a little bit more. And so he can be a voice of reason where, you know, when you're living, whatever that diabetic experiences, whether it is trying to find a low or whether it is not wanting to have something attached to your body, like there is a little bit of illogic that happens because you're feeling the feelings, instead of like being able to view the situation from a third party perspective. And so I think that there were moments where my parents could have done that, like, more of a worthy objective party in the room. Let us bring you back down from your, the feeling you're feeling right

Scott Benner 44:34
as the adult who's not busy. I'd like to weigh in on I think we can stop drinking the apple juice now. Right. Yeah. You know, earlier, you just, you know how, you know, at the beginning of the episode, you said you had to think about things that you weren't going to say. I've just thought of something I think I need to say and I don't think I should. that interesting. Crossroads, I think Yeah, I don't usually. Okay.

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:02
I think probably just say it.

Scott Benner 45:04
I think I figured out what Arden's churches. Oh, so Arden's not a combative child. And she's, I'm using the word compliant in the nicest way. She's a very compliant person. She's, you know about her diabetes, she doesn't fight against having diabetes. But she doesn't like swallowing pills that get stuck in her throat. And so she's supposed to be taking probiotics and a couple of other things. And she treats them like you're forced feeding her poison, and she knows it's poison. And the poison has razor blades wrapped around it, and you're trying to kill her with a gun at the same time. And I'm thinking now, is that where Arden finds her control over the uncontrollable stuff in her life? Like, does she just pick this little thing that she thinks, Oh, this isn't going to kill me? And I'll I'll make a stand here. So I feel like I'm in control of something. I'm glad you came on. Could be and where was Erica? She's done like 10 episodes about mental health stuff. I've never had this breakthrough with her. I hope she's listening. Let me down. Now, this was really, I actually decided to put it in the episode thinking maybe 35 year old Arden will hear this one day and be like, oh, yeah, that probably is what was happening. Maybe she'll call me and apologize. I mean, call me and tell me she misses me. Would that be weird?, hold on a second. You're jumping over this? What if in the future, my daughter calls me to say she misses me. And it's because of something I did in 2022 on a podcast.

Anonymous Female Speaker 46:47
I don't think that you're the sort of person she'll ever have the space or time to miss honestly.

Scott Benner 46:53
I'm insulted by love. Oh, no, I appreciate that. I can fill a room, you have no idea?

Anonymous Female Speaker 47:04
Ah, um, yeah, I think that it's been interesting to hear you talk about your sort of path with art. And because it's just so diametrically opposed to my, like, teenage years that it's hard. It's really hard for me to understand. I mean, Arden is certainly from a different generation than me, but like, the degree to which I fought diabetes, just doesn't seem to even occur to her at least from your description of it.

Scott Benner 47:38
Yeah, for the most part, she's getting ready to go. I think it like a day or so I said it funny. I don't even really know. I think it's early Thursday morning. She's gonna get on a plane with her class and fly to Disney. And they're gonna stay there for. Again, this is embarrassing. I don't know, three or four days. a while, you know, that'd be more than a day, you know. And I just got off the phone before I spoke with you with the traveling nurse that will be at Disney and I explained how we were going to do everything. And I said, you know, if you want to follow her Dexcom you can she said she would and I laid the whole thing out for her. She actually has a little bit of background with diabetes and that she helped an autistic child with type one at one point. So the kid was very unaware of the diabetes, and she had to know more about it. So I could hear in her descriptions that she saw some bigger picture stuff about overtreating and things like that. So I was like, Oh, this will be good. So we set up a group chat between my wife art and myself and the nurse. We're going to invite her to Dexcom later. I'm not nervous about that at all. I think Arden is going to go to college, 14 hours away by car. And I'm not even nervous about that. Like I think this is all going to work out okay. But it's important to say that when I say I think is going to work out okay, top line of what okay means to me is Arden's blood sugar's are stable within a certain range, and that we do everything we can to that that is first and foremost, like if she and I have to argue about probiotics. I am even cognizant of when we're arguing about it that at least we're not arguing about insulin. Right, right. Like that's most important and I guess maybe I didn't realize it but I think I think in that astronaut way you were describing I think of it as no first I say no to I find all the things to say no to first and then I thought and then I find the right things. My wife and daughter do not enjoy my thought process around that. But I eliminate all the problems and then I just enjoy the rest of it. But some I mean, you know go the opposite I guess.

Anonymous Female Speaker 49:59
Yeah. I am for sure the opposite, but I can appreciate the the It pairs well in my marriage just what I would say, Claire's. Well,

Scott Benner 50:12
I fascinated that you into the Grand Canyon without any fast acting carbs whatsoever.

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:17
Well, I had some in my bag, I just went on a five mile hike down the canyon without any, you know, that's fine.

Scott Benner 50:25
Okay, it worked out. All right. What else? Oh, here, why else? Why else are you on the show? Because you I remember you said things in your note. I don't know if I've gotten any of them.

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:36
Who knows what I said. Um, so I think the other piece of my story that could be helpful is so after. After a string of terrible endocrinologist, I found a good one. When I moved to LA, I found a endocrinologist that was, I was like, I'm gonna find someone who's great cutting edge of research, like, I'm just going to, I'm going to see if I can't find the best in the field to solve this, because I'm tired of having this like burden that I'm carrying around every day that is unsolvable. I found a doctor who was able to like recognize all the different pieces of what was happening to me, she got me on a Dexcom she started making changes to my long acting insulin. And was sort of cognizant that I wasn't going to be able to immediately switch to being on the pump, because I had fought it for so long and had this like, psychological stuff happening. But she was sort of also staying in her lane as the doctor and so she was like, You should probably talk to someone. But also, you know, we're gonna just make the small changes over time. So I switched to try Seba I, I tried to Frezza for a while. And we were sort of messing with my regime. And getting, you know, slowly but surely, making step taking steps out of a onesie, it took probably much longer than it should have. But, you know, we were going from 10 to eight. And it was like, Okay, this feels like progress, at least. And in the middle of that process, I went on a vacation, my husband and I went to Portland. And I always ran high. Obviously, I wasn't taking enough insulin. But when I would step away from work, the lack of stress often made me have lows that I wouldn't otherwise have. I would just regularly on vacation have these low loads that like in my normal day to day would not exist. We go out, we spend the day walking around, probably walk 10 or 12 Miles exploring the city, have a couple drinks, come back to the hotel room. It is, you know, probably 10 o'clock at night. And I want to have this donut from Voodoo Donuts. I think it's so fancier and gonna still live my best life even with diabetes. But my blood sugar is still high despite having walked around all day. And despite, you know, having tried to dose for dinner, and so I'm frustrated. And I take 10 units of human log thinking I'm covering the donut and also range bolusing for all the stuff that I've done throughout that day. Little did I know at the time, I was still taking too much long acting insulin and I had recently switched to Joseba, which was slightly more impactful than the Lantis that I was on. And you know, the effect of alcohol plus this rage Bolus meant that I wake up in the middle of the night, the Dexcom alerted that you're falling fast. And so I had fallen I would think I was falling. I want to say it was like 30 or 35 points each five minute time and so I'm just looking at this chart, but and seeing this like roller coaster of like, I'm gonna die. Like I'm not I'm not low yet. But looking at this and if I just keep drawing a line like this is aligned to death. I wake up my husband and freaking out. I am not in the middle of the Grand Canyon with no sugar. I have lots of sugar. So I'm drinking juice. I had some starbursts, I think trying to bring it up. But I'm panicking because I can see this like precipitous drop and start to get super anxious and I'm now crying and having sort of shortness of breath and eventually I work myself into such a panic that I start throwing up. And then at that point that only compounds the panic Because I now I'm like, Well, I'm not holding down the carbs, but I needed to bring me back up. And like, I'm just I'm gonna die here in this hotel room in Portland. What am I going to do?

Scott Benner 55:12
Was the Portland part the most upsetting?

Anonymous Female Speaker 55:17
No, I don't really have it out for Portland, lovely city. But I, you know, hyper independent, hyper aware I call an Uber I call taxi and I call the paramedics. Because I was like, I don't know this city. I don't know who's gonna get here faster. I don't know where the hospital is. And so interestingly, the taxi got there first and the paramedics then the Uber.

Scott Benner 55:42
I love that. That, by the way, is so freakin amazing foresight. You're like, three modes of transportation, whichever one gets your first.

Anonymous Female Speaker 55:54
And so when the paramedics showed up, they were like, well, put your blood sugar's not actually low. Because at that point, I think it was 70. And I was like, but look at the graph, it's gonna be low, like it's gonna be low. And they were like, man, we cannot treat you

Scott Benner 56:12
Was your husband sitting in that uncomfortable chair in the hotel room calling ex girlfriends gonna be like, Hey, I'm sorry, we broke up.

Anonymous Female Speaker 56:22
What I can say for him is that he has very chill vibes, very chill about the whole thing.

Scott Benner 56:29
A tree? He was like, Oh, no. Well, if

Anonymous Female Speaker 56:33
she, if she dies, I'll still have the trees.

Scott Benner 56:36
So did that experience, give you more anxiety? Or see because here's what I'll show you how your brain and my brain aren't similar, and yet are really I'm really enjoying talking to you, by the way, and are similar in different. What that would prove to me was, Oh, I could stop up a crazy fall. Like I did it. But what it proved to you was your blood sugar could fall on anywhere and you're gonna die. Is that right?

Anonymous Female Speaker 57:02
Well, and it, it seemed unpredictable. Like I had never had something like that happen. And so it was like, I couldn't trust the insulin. I in my lead up to the story. I gave you all the reasons why this happened. But in the moment, it was just like this is this uncontrollable unexplainable. Like I I did all the right things. And you know, diabetes is just impossible to understand

Scott Benner 57:29
coming again. Yeah. Yeah, I have a question. So you were you weren't like low while you were making those decisions yet. So you were like, like, you were panicking. But your your brain was functioning?

Anonymous Female Speaker 57:42
Right, right. So I could feel the drop. And I could, and I was like, deep in anxiety. And so this very, very kind. paramedic was like, ma'am, do you have anxiety issues? And I just started sobbing. looked at my husband and my husband said nothing as the life man.

Scott Benner 58:08
Now she's got a completely together. I've never once even noticed her shake her fingers. Like she doesn't get even nervous. That's fine. I'm just gonna go over here and look at the law. So So do you have do you have anxiety? Generally speaking?

Anonymous Female Speaker 58:23
Maybe, I don't know. How do you not know? I mean, I would the answer is probably yes. But like everything else. It's in degrees ingredients. And it depends on. Like, it's one of those things that like saying that you have as much like saying you have diabetes, saying that you have anxiety sort of it's like, oh, you have this uncontrolled, irrational anxiousness. And I would say that that irrational anxiousness is often prepared me well for various situations that

Scott Benner 58:58
you people call irrational I'd call getting ready. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put much into a five gallon bucket in case the Russians come.

Anonymous Female Speaker 59:11
My husband and I do you have a vague outline of what would happen if if we got into an apocalyptic scenario. And our friends know this and nowhere to go?

Scott Benner 59:21
So interesting. I know I've said this on here before but it fits here. I know which one of my second floor windows I would jump out of if I absolutely had to jump out of the house. Like I have a plan for what I would do if I met a bear. I know what I would do if I found a bottle and the Genie was inside of it. I have a lot of plans for things that aren't going to happen. But I don't. I also want to point out that I didn't spend a ton of time on my genie plan. It was like five minutes when I was 12. It made a ton of sense and I've held on to it like throughout my life. I was just very concerned, that if I found a Genie in a Bottle I would end up with a fast car, a huge penis. And like something else that I couldn't use five minutes later get an amen. So I was like, I was like I wanted, wanted to make sure I was thoughtful about it. In case it should happen, anyway. But I'm not I don't think about that constantly. Like, I don't have any anxiety around. Oh, if the house catches on fire, I don't own a ladder that goes a rope ladder. Although now that I said it, maybe I'm gonna get a rope.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:00:30
That's what you that's. But I think you're you're articulating the key distinction is that lots of people are running around very anxious, but they've not went got pills for it, or they've not identified it as a problem. Because most of the time, it's helpful. Yeah, I'm anxious. Right? Yeah. But you're describing anxiety. But it's that your planning is so good that you don't have to get into scenarios where your planning has fallen short.

Scott Benner 1:00:59
first wish, no matter what I wish for next comes true. Second wish I don't die before I can make my third wish. Then I wish for unlimited wishes. And that's it. Because I'm, I need the unlimited wishes because I can't figure out like how to like get this down to three things. And I know for certain that I'm going to drop that before I get the wish out of my mouth. So and then I know my fourth wish will be about health and my friends and my family. Like I'll put everybody in a good place. And then I'll rebuild my life the way I would if everything was perfect, and then probably ruin it and then live forever and hate myself for eternity. That's probably what would happen. I wonder how much of that was sarcasm? How much of it was true just now?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:01:50
I'm like a true anxious person, honestly. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:54
I find myself to be prepared around ideas. And it goes back to I will tell you that when I was a child, I would imagine my parents death so that I would know what I would do if it would happen. You think that's anxiety? Can't say I haven't been there? Oh, no kidding. I'm incredible. Maybe you're not anxious.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:02:16
the paramedic begs to differ

Scott Benner 1:02:18
as a paramedic, what's you know, it's probably he was probably on mushrooms when he got there else is Portland.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:02:25
Right? Correct. Yeah. Um, so we go back up to the hotel room, I'm still falling a little bit in has slowed down, I eventually do have low blood sugar, right about the time that we sit ourselves down at the actually it wasn't when we sat down it was when we when my biscuits and gravy and two giant Apple juices are delivered at the diner across the street from the hotel. So again, like hyper preparedness is a thing that has served me well. But after that moment, I had tremendous anxiety that at any time, in an uncontrollable unexplainable way that I was going to have low blood sugar. And I wrote in the two hundreds and even, there were there was a time where I was uncomfortable below 250. And I just couldn't, even though I had run around, you know, even though I had had this childhood full of doing all kinds of insane things never knowing or caring what my blood sugar was, I could suddenly below 250 was like, hard pass. cannot do it. Um, and so

Scott Benner 1:03:38
hello, I had this I'm sorry, how long ago was this?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:41
Um, I would say, five years ago.

Scott Benner 1:03:45
I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:47
No, no, no. And so I then had like, essentially, then went to move to Colorado found a new endocrinologist and I was like, I want to get this under control. And I'm willing to do anything put me on a pump, I think I think I should be on a pump. This doctor had heard that field before and was like, come back in three months, we'll see if we can put you on a pump. And I was like, No, I'm a serious person. And he was like, come back in three months. So I came back in three months. And he put me on a poem. And we but in that in that three months, I also went started seeing a therapist who was a diabetic and we just like really did intense cognitive behavior interventions to slowly but surely make small changes so that I could do the thing that you're talking about, which is like, see what the insulin did does trust that it does that every time. Trust that I know what is going to happen, and over time have been able to Now my agencies like in the sixes, my endo is like hi, bye loved it, love to see you. But it was probably like three solid years of work.

Scott Benner 1:05:10
At what point in that process? Do you find me?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:05:15
Pretty early. So after I want to say after I started having this anxiety realize I need to solve it. I'm like, I just need to fix sort of my relationship with diabetes, and I start to do all the things that I was a hard pass on before. So I joined some Facebook groups, I find the podcasts, I ordered some books online, I was like, we're just gonna, like immerse ourselves like denied the days of denial or past we have to like know what's going on. And so I found found the podcast listened straight through to the defining diabetes portion. That was called the pro tip.

Scott Benner 1:06:01
Defining variables. I got the pro tip episodes, newly diagnosed or starting over episode two times. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:06:11
I started there. And then just like, after I got through those, just listen to whatever was next in the feed. And at some point, you said something that truly, I think changed my relationship with diabetes, which was just like, if you want to, if you want more control, like, you should take less insulin, you won't have those swings. It's not, it's interesting, because it's not the like, take more be bolder thing. But it's like, these big doses of insulin that you're taking are then causing these crazy schemes. And so if you can just take a little bit that apple juice would cover, you'd be fine. And I was like, Oh, I can actually just do that. Here's a unit. Here's a unit and a half, like, that's fine.

Scott Benner 1:06:54
The Bumping and nothing made sense to you. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? How? My thing my words, whatever they are, get interpreted by different people different ways. Like I, I agree with you. I don't think I'm I don't think of how am I gonna say this? I'm not bold with insulin in the way that some people would think of those words, right? I'm bold in a way that to me means I use insulin in a way that most people don't think about using it. I'm bold in that it's different. I don't mean that I'm like, you know, like, hey, just drink the vial. Let's see if it works through your stomach to like, Let's inject it in both arms at the same time. Like I'm not like some crazy guy throwing insulin around all over the boys. I mean, my daughter's got some larger bowls. Is it times based on on how her settings are? Actually I was looking earlier while we were talking. She's at school. So I don't know what she ate. I have no idea because I'm not with her. But she Bolus 65 carbs was like 14 and a half units. Oh, man. Yeah. And I mean, she's doing alright, her blood sugar's 145. Like, it's level. Like, it looks like it looks to me like she didn't Pre-Bolus and that she over Bolus for something knowing that she didn't Pre-Bolus. And I've never actually even said that to her. Like, that's just something she's picked up from what we've done, you know, but anyway, I'm sorry, back to the, the terminology that gets thrown around. That gets sometimes attached to me. Like, I don't know, like it. The whole podcast has gotten too big. Like, I can't have a private conversation with everybody. But I think if someone came and interviewed me, you'd be surprised at some of my answers. Because I do think exactly what you just said. It's, it's about timing and amount. And if you use the right amount the right time, and you never get high, then you don't have to correct and if you don't have to correct a big high, you're not going to upload later, you know, nothing's perfect, but likely in that using more targeted insulin is is the way I can see where somebody who has had diabetes for a long time might hear the word bold and think I'm just talking about like use a mallet like Thor's hammer full of insulin but generally,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:09:22
the dose I took in Portland like that was bold. It was wrong decision.

Scott Benner 1:09:27
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you were bold with it. So you might have been like, poorly thought out and stupid with insulin. Like I don't rage I don't think of I don't think we rage Bolus ever. Like I've never just been like, just use a massive amount of insulin that I don't know is being covered or not because I gotta get out of this thing. Like, I'll crush it and catch it. But that's still a fairly well thought out process based on my experiences with insulin. So anyway, it's weird to put your thoughts out into the world like this and have so many people hear them because when you You hear them mirrored back at you. You're like, Oh, I didn't mean that. But, but it's almost like it's almost like a book review. Like I realized one day, like, if I'm going to take a good book review, I gotta take a bad book review. And if, and there are people who have heard me say something and applied it to their lives and had a lot of success with it, and sometimes when I hear them talk about, I think that's not what I meant. But, you know, like, if it worked for you great, like whatever you took from it. I think maybe I'm learning over time that even more, I'm gonna say something I don't know if I believe completely, but maybe more important than the ideas is the conversation. I don't know, maybe?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:10:44
No, I mean, I think that that connects to sort of one of the other things that I would just say that I wish I had known sooner in my diabetes journey is that like, the community actually does matter. I think I spent like 20 years not believing that the community matters. I was like, it didn't matter. I have this struggle with diabetes, I don't need to talk to anyone about it. I don't need to, like, have people feel bad for me. I don't need to explain why it's awful. Like we all know, it's awful the end. And I like a shoe the idea of diabetes camp, I was like, What are we going to like build pink Priuses and sort of shoot them out into the lake and burn them in effigy like a Viking funeral, like I just didn't understand or appreciate, like, what it would mean to have a community and what the value could be. And I do think it is like, to your point, the exchange of information, and the like perspective that you can get from seeing someone else do it differently. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:53
So I think a lot of pride, even though you weren't speaking to me, just then I take a lot of pride in that you feel that way. Because and again, this is not a judgment against those people. But in the beginning, when there were just a few diabetes blogs, they were all long term type ones who were living pretty scared lives, they were scared of lows too. And, you know, we'd make the same joke about diet soda over and over again, like, I can see why you wouldn't want to be a part of that community. But also, that was their truth. And they were sharing it. But the problem I always found is that then the community got built around voices that didn't know what they were doing all the time. Like, it's not that their stories weren't important, because they're incredibly important and sameness and community in that way is is valuable in a way that's hard to put into words like I'm not, I am not coming down on what happened. I just think that that's where it started. Like, if there was no diabetes community, before the day I decided to make this podcast, it's possible that that community would have built out around the idea of, you know, maybe you have more control over all this than you think you do. And, and so it got built out that way, I can see why it drew a lot of people in and I can see why it repelled a lot of people away. Also, you just threw in a skewed, like, into the conversation like none of us were gonna hear it. You and your fancy education.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:13:24
I went to state school. It's not that fancy.

Scott Benner 1:13:28
I'm just teasing you. I like your usage. I heard it, I'm just I'm giving you props. I like to use it anyway. My pride comes from thinking that maybe there's another generation of people who's, you know, who will be a little bolder in their ability to find answers for themselves, and to apply things that they've learned. You know, I just watched in the Facebook group yesterday, this person, and I understood where they were coming from. So they get into account, they're newer to the Facebook group, they clearly don't listen to the podcast, which is a weird dichotomy for me. Because in my mind, I don't even know how you know about the Facebook group if you don't listen to the podcast, but it's gotten to that point where my Facebook group has become so popular and big, and I think valuable for people that it attracts people in anyway that never heard the podcast. Now you have a newer diagnosed child, the parent is real fear based at still, which is understandable. Some person asks a question, and the responses start coming back that are very rooted in the podcast. And there are people saying like, hey, try this episode, try listening to this Bah, blah, blah. And it just overwhelmed. One person who came in and was like, you can't listen to a podcast over your doctor. And I was like, whatever. Like she can say whatever she wants. I don't care. Like, like, you don't mean so they're having this conversation back and forth. But I could see how afraid she was. She was afraid that someone was going to say something that another person was going to misunderstand. And it was going to be detrimental to their health. And she felt so passionate about it that she kept arguing. And people were like, look very kind to her, I thought, I thought the conversation was very clear, like, look, you know, I think you've you, maybe you should try this. And she just kept pushing back, I could tell she felt like she was saving someone's life. And so I didn't, I thought nothing of it, I let the conversation go on, and on and on. It actually wasn't until, and I very, very infrequently do this, but I had to, like, block her from the group because she started DMing people, like really fearful things. And I thought, well, this is such a strange thing. Because one day, this lady won't feel this scared. And she will look back on this moment, and be embarrassed, and she shouldn't be, but but she will be. And, but that's if she's lucky. And she gets the information, and she figures out how to collate it and use it in her life. Or she might just blow off into the breeze like you did as a kid, and live there forever. And I felt a real responsibility to not let her just fade away. And it wasn't until she, you know, went behind people's but like she was doing it privately that I thought, Okay, I can't give her access to these members, they need protection from something like this. But I would have been happy if she would have kept the conversation in the space. Because I think it could take her months to grow away from that fear. And I wanted her to be able to do it. But she got a little too internet crazy. So it had to stop. But Well,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:16:38
it's interesting to watching sort of the juicebox community because it so many of the people that are in it are parents of type ones and not type one themselves. I mean, there are people like me too, but there it creates this interesting dichotomy because like the idea that you would just trust your doctor 100% When, when you're a diabetic, you know, you have to then go home and make these decisions. And that it all is kind of a gamble, and that the doctor only knows like this much of your entire diabetes, sort of experience in life. It may, I don't know, maybe I'm just like, a naturally skeptical person. But it the idea that you would just be like, what only the doctor can know, is something that is hard to understand. But I think that if you're a parent of a child, and like watching that unfold, I can imagine how scary that would be. And so you have to trust the only thing that is saying, I'm correct, I'm

Scott Benner 1:17:40
right. Yeah, right guys got a coat on hat. And there's a thing hanging on his wall, like he must know. Actually, you know, it's funny. I know the makeup of the Facebook group, there are way more adults in there than you think they're just very quiet. They don't talk. They don't talk as much as the parents. But they're there. I don't know that it's 5050. But it's closer to 65 divided than you than you might think it is. It's very interesting. And when the adults do pop up their stuffs always super valuable. Because they've got context that that the parents don't have. I'm proud that there's an interplay in there between adults and parents, because it's hard to I don't know, I don't understand people's minds and why they, they they run off into teams, and they want to be on teams. And it's all important, like I'm an adult with type one, and you're a parent with type one, or you have type one, and you have type two, or you like the Kansas City Chiefs, and I like that, like I don't understand why people care about that, if I'm being perfectly honest. But it happens. It's very real. And any time that you can bring a couple of teams together and let them see each other's you know, inner workings, I find it to be really valuable. Anyway,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:18:55
I saw I saw a post this morning about silver linings and you know, she clearly a new a newly diagnosed kid and she's just like, there will never be a silver lining. Like what is this person even asking me about? And I was like, Oh, I could probably articulate some silver linings having lived with us and and like I'm someone who has complications. I'm someone who has done the whole roller coaster and I could still probably articulate a few. So I do think that that like Interplay from being able to hear from someone who's further along the line to when you're just newly diagnosed is one of the more beautiful parts of the podcasts in the Facebook crew. I think

Scott Benner 1:19:37
one of the cool parts about my job is that I saw that post as well. And I know where it's gonna go, because I've seen it 100 times before, and it's gonna go in a really good place. And that person is going to get a lot out of it. I even know how they're going to feel when it's over. Because I've seen it play out so many times. There are times when I see stuff like that pop up and I go Oh, that's good. But I can't wait for people to have this conversation, that's a great conversation for them to have just the same way as sometimes somebody says something like, there's no good end to this, like this is, this is not going to end well, like it can't like it, just it and not that it couldn't, by the way, everybody could make the right decision. But I haven't seen it yet.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:20:20
You have so many people in a room, it's just headed in that direction,

Scott Benner 1:20:25
almost feels like what it might be like to be like a judge, and have presided over 10,000 cases, like when you're 70. And somebody you know, in the to the plaintiff and the defendant stand up and they start talking, you're like, I already know how this is gonna go. You know, like, it's not that people don't have real agency, it's just that there are a finite number of decisions you can make. And eventually, you know, I know we all like to feel special, but my life's not much different than, than yours, and vice versa. And you sometimes you just know how it's gonna work out. So I love watching people find answers. And I like watching them get to them in ways that I at least believe are valuable. in a bigger way than just what I see in front of me, like, I know how growth goes like, like, there are people who, who email me. And they, I mean, they, they feel like their five seconds of throwing themselves off a building, you know, and I just tell them, like, I already know how this is gonna go, like you don't know, but trust me, here's what you need to learn. Once you learn that, apply it after you apply it, you'll feel better after you feel better, you'll see a bigger picture, eventually, you know, six months from now, you won't feel this way. And you'll send me an email and tell me you don't feel this way. And then six months from now, the email comes back in there. Okay. So I mean, if everybody can believe me, it's gonna be all right. Just gotta get your basil right. Pre-Bolus and learn about the different impacts to your foods. And yeah, you'll learn how to use insulin, it'll be okay. Do you have to go? I saw you look aside.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:03
I've got 10 minutes.

Scott Benner 1:22:05
Do you have anything? Are you? Well, then here? Here's the question. Is there anything that we haven't talked about? That you want to talk about?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:15
That's a good question.

Scott Benner 1:22:16
Want to throw out a couple of big words or anything like that? What other words do you know? I know some words. Yeah, are they gonna be?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:26
So I think that what I will say, I think I would just double down on the community piece. So my whole life, I didn't know anyone that was diabetic, it was just me. And I suppose my uncle, but he's had a hard life. And I was not something I thought of as a role model. And so I and I always thought that was fine. And I think that. So coming to the law school, there happens to be like six or seven of us running around with Dexcom here. And there's a there's a little bit of a Dexcom exchange and a low blood sugar Exchange, or a low blood sugar treatment exchange. And there's a crew of girls that like follows each other. And that is the first time really that I've had that in person connection. And I got a taste of it in the podcast, and then was willing to, like, do that in real life. Because I had seen like how much the podcasts had benefited how I thought about diabetes. And I just think that if there was one thing, I would leave like parents with of type ones with but also type ones too. Like, you should probably go find a community, even if the whole idea is abhorrent to you or if it's like pretty difficult. I think that there is real value in not being alone in this disease. Sorry, I was trying not to swear. But are you

Scott Benner 1:24:08
with her so much? 234567. I've made nine notes of where I have to pick out cursing, figuring it out an hour and 20 minutes into it.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:24:21
No, no, that was the tame version. Honestly, it was it was the censored version.

Scott Benner 1:24:27
I think that community can have a bad connotation for people. I think that they can see it as Kumbaya and we're all going to just like say positive things to each other. And you know, and it's gonna be a lot of people don't want that. I have to be honest. I wouldn't want that either. But,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:24:45
I mean, that's what I thought it was. I honestly thought that like when people talked about being in community, it was like we're gonna hold hands and talk about the Dexcom sensor and I was like, No, thank you to all of that. Right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:24:58
I'm Good. But it what it really is, is it's an invisible support system. And that's important. Like the not feeling alone is really important. Not Being alone is more important. And I think that's where the blend of, I mean, if I can, like, I guess I'm going to speak for myself here, which is gonna, I'm gonna sound like a douchebag in a second. But I think that what I, in a second, do you think most people were like, yeah, and for the last hour and a half those podcasts, and most of the episodes, but at TQ people I say, off, but I think what I've done is that I've found a way to take the community and blend it with actual, like ideas that are helpful. So that the community can just be this thing, like, it's supposed to be like this, this energy in the background that exists, and it will buoy you, but isn't something that you physically have to be touching constantly to be a party to? theirs. I someone should do a dissertation on what this podcast is like one day, like I hope I live long enough for somebody to break it down as their grad student project. Because I think that between the information that's in my head about insulin, how I think about the world, my ability to communicate with people, my ability to take something that I mean, let's be honest, should be really boring. And I think I do a pretty good job of it not being boring. And then to bring all these people together from all over the world, by the way, like, I don't have as many international guests on as I could. But people are listening everywhere, and just how it's empowered people from somebody who's had diabetes for 20 years and, you know, felt like they were at a loss to people who have, you know, just found that they felt that they have diabetes today. And and delivered a message that they can all on some level absorb and find useful. I mean, honestly, I don't know how I did it. Like you don't you mean, like, it just worked. I just, I don't even feel like, I don't even feel deserving of saying that I did it. I just had this idea. And I kept falling it to where it makes sense next, and building on it where it makes sense. And there are plenty of ideas that people had. I'm like, No, that's not right. Like, and I don't know if I'm wrong, but I've ignored things that, like right now people are trying to get me to start a babysitting thing. And I'm like, yeah, no, I can't, like I have a finite amount of time. And you don't understand the legality around that. Like, I can't be involved in you finding a babysitter who shows up in your house and then takes the Ginsu knives and kills your dog. You know what I mean? Like that? I can't be involved in that. Is it a bad idea? It's not, but it won't reach as many people as you think it's, it's a finite need in a certain age. You won't reach as many people as you need to make it popular, like I know, that can't work without like a ton of money, and I don't have that money to put into it. So I'm able to kind of like go, no, that idea is not good. But then, you know, bringing Jenny in just that was obvious. And well, you know, sorry, no, you're fine.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:28:18
I feel like I've told you this in maybe several Instagram posts, because it comes over me as an organizer a lot. But it does, like the structure of the podcast seems like very much grounded in the principles of community organizing, and that you have this like, belief or belief system. That is, you know, what works, essentially, and then you've just been talking about it, and that people, people will hear it. And if they like what they hear and believe what they hear and find it useful, they stay. And then you start to build this group of people. And I think what's cool is in the time that I've sort of been watching, I see, like leaders, so there's a whole there's a whole model of community organizing, this is really nerdy, so sorry, but it's called the snowflake model. And it sort of builds out from a center leader and then they build out these additional leaders and those people go tell other people and and build this snowflake of people that are more powerful, quote unquote, then just any individual sort of in a room by themselves. And I think that the I've seen that happen with the podcast, like they are now ambassadors or leaders or whatever nodes of people that are gonna go out and talk about how to bump in nudge and how to think about timing and amount in ways that before they were at the Met the podcast, they would not have done that. And I think that like that is how that is what political organizers hoped for, and almost can never find but I think the difference between sort of a political message and what you have to offer is that it is concrete improvement in people's lives if they choose to apply it and so like it makes sense That continues to exponentially grow.

Scott Benner 1:30:03
Am I the center of the snowflake? Unfortunately, Yeah, unfortunately, yes, yeah. Hey, listen, you can't you can't pick who it ends up being. I know it's upsetting that it's me. But again

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:30:18
no question that Martin Luther King would ask.

Scott Benner 1:30:24
I was just trying to build a picture of what you're saying, because I think you swallowed the word snowflake when you first started it. So I was trying to make sure people understood. And then I did it in a way that was self effacing. Because, you know, I don't know. That's just how my brand brand, right? So. But no, I actually had three. It's funny, as you were finishing, I had three questions. And I was like, do I go with the funny one? Let's towards the end, I'll keep it light. Or, and then I thought, or do I go with the more serious one. I'm like, Oh, she might run out of time. And then I defaulted to stupid. But I really, it's amazing to hear you explain that. Because I've been learning this as I'm doing it. I had no idea about any of this. Like, it's very, like, I'm not lying to you. The first month I made this podcast 1300 times it was downloaded. So I don't know what that means. There were only four episodes. I mean, rough math, there's probably like 400 people listening maybe. And I mean, last month, I think it were like 350,000 downloads. So it's, I've had to grow along with it. And trust me, if I don't keep figuring it out and staying flexible the way I am, this thing would have died 1000 times already. Like, I know, it seems like you just build this thing. And it grows exponentially on its own. But it's not. It's like every time I look up, this is an entity that is different than the entity it was three months prior. And so I have to keep, like there was a time where I had to be online answering people's questions. And now people answered the questions for me. And so I can move my my focus to a different thing. There's a time when I had to take a lot of phone calls from people, because I couldn't reach them with the podcast yet. So I would reach them personally. And then they would go out and tell their people, it's simple to just say it's word of mouth. Because it is the podcast grows completely through word of mouth. But I have I was gonna say something that sounds so douchey. But like, I think you have to have like your finger on the pulse of what's happening. And you have to keep adjusting. And if you do it wrong, you have to be able to throw your hands up and say, Oh, they don't care. Like, we started animating the defining diabetes series for YouTube. And we got like three or four of them up and I'm like, oh, people don't care about this. And I contact the animator was like, Stop, like, stop. She's like, you don't want to finish? And I'm like, no, no, stop, it's over. It didn't work. Like right, like, I'm gonna try a different way to do it. Again, I have we have the content, I'll try it a different way. I'm like, but I want you to shift and start taking 32nd clips out of episodes and making them into animations. And we'll try them on different social media platforms instead. And if that doesn't work, I will abandon that in three seconds. And that's where companies are screwed. Because they make a decision. It's people's jobs. Nobody wants to say the thing that they had an idea about was bad. So they will follow a bad idea right to their death. And I'm just like, No, no, that's not working stop, we got to pivot. And

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:33:31
well, and what you're describing is like, also, what politicians have to do and are so bad at but like, the ability to focus on what actually matters. And what actually impacts lives like is what sorry to, like, take it to politics, but like that's what a good politician can do, and can stop, you know, a organization of hundreds of people and say we were doing this, we're shifting message because like the you're wrong about what actually matters and what's happening impact. And so, to that end, I think that as I it's funny that you bring up the animations because I saw those I was like, this feels odd. I don't know what Scott is doing with these. Exactly. And so it's funny, then that that plan that seems like it's shifting or changing and it doesn't doesn't surprise me that you are capable of recognizing that. And then moving back to like what is making traction because that is something that you have to be able to do in a political in any sort of movement. Like I keep making it political. It's

Scott Benner 1:34:34
a great example of that people don't really know what they want. And that's where leadership comes in. So people think they want the animations. They like the idea of it. I will show this to my kid and my kid will understand Pre-Bolus thing now because of this and even while they were saying I was like that's not right. Then enough people said it. I was like, Alright, well let's give them what they want. And so like I gave it to him, I was like, Oh, you don't want this. You think you want this? And I was like oh that's interesting. So now you know it's set up, and it's easy to do. So I'm like, well, let's just make little clips of it. And we'll see if we can make it work on tick tock or Instagram, like stories or stuff like that. And if it works great, and if it doesn't, then to me, that's what leadership is leadership is being able to say, you know, a, I know what it sounds trust me, if you're listening, you're gonna think it sounds horrible, but I probably have a better idea of what you need around diabetes than you do at this point. And it's

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:35:28
leadership and it's parenting, you want to date the bad boyfriend, but I can tell you right now, it's not gonna work

Scott Benner 1:35:36
out with the guy who has goo at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. And is like, here, this is the stuff I eat when I'm riding my bicycle and it will bring your blood sugar up. Yeah, no,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:35:45
the only man who brought water sometimes. Exactly.

Scott Benner 1:35:49
Alright, we had a great time, didn't we? Yes, yes, we did. Can I call this episode if it pleases the court? Sure, can I? Because I don't know what else to call it right now. curses a lot. It dog. He got his called dog. No one will even get that that was an hour and a half ago. Right now people listening are like what is she talking about? So I was like, alright, real quick. It's Kamala Kamala Kamala, I keep saying it wrong. Kamala Harris, her husband's name is Doug. If you didn't hear that, an hour and a half ago, you weren't paying attention and you've insulted me. And that's the end of this. Alright, go learn how to be a lawyer. What kind of lawyer you're going to defend people or throw him in jail.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:36:31
I'm obviously going to defend people. Good for you.

Scott Benner 1:36:35
Very nice. All right. You were terrific. You'll be back on one day. All right, you let me know. Alright. Take care.

Bye. Want to thank for coming on the show. I want to thank Omni pod for sponsoring the show. I want to thank Nick Contour Next One blood glucose meter for sponsoring this stuff for sponsoring the show. I don't know what happened just there. On the pod.com Ford slash juice box, go find out about the Omni pod five, or the Omni pod dash, whichever strikes your fancy. And of course, at contour next one.com Ford slash juice box, you can get my daughter's blood glucose meter. It's terrific. It just is contour next one.com forward slash juice box.

If you're into helping people, especially people with type one diabetes, I'd like to ask you to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. When you get there, fill out the survey completely. And you've helped somebody, all you need to be is a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, t one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox. Join the registry, complete the survey, help someone with type one diabetes, help yourself perhaps and support the Juicebox Podcast, you will do all of this in the fewer than 10 minutes that it will take to go to that link and complete the survey. The survey is very simple. You'll know all the answers to all the questions. It is also HIPAA compliant and completely anonymous. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. There are the links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. To all of the sponsors. And to T one D exchange. When you take the time to click on my links or to type them in a browser. You're telling the sponsors that you came from the Juicebox Podcast and that is a wonderful way to support the show. Are you looking for a vibrant and intelligent community around diabetes? look no farther than the Facebook page, the private Facebook page for the Juicebox Podcast. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. The group has over 28,000 members. And those members are responsible for between 70 and 110 new posts every day on the Facebook page. Every conceivable conversation around diabetes is happening at Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook, you're gonna see great questions, thoughtful answers, and supportive people. No matter if you're an adult living with type one diabetes, or the caregiver of someone with type one. This group is for you. Doesn't matter if you eat low carb or high carb or somewhere in between your questions and thoughts are welcome on our Facebook page. I hope you check it out. Last little bit if you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series or the Finding diabetes series or any of the other multitude of series that exists within the podcast, you can find them in a number of ways. They are at juicebox podcast.com. They are at diabetes pro tip.com. And if you belong to the private Facebook group, you can find them listed in the featured tab. Now if you're enjoying the podcast, please consider sharing it with someone else that helps the podcast grow more than anything word of mouth is definitely how the show has become what it is. If you have already shared it with everybody you can think of and you've bought it on the potter decks calm or supported one of the other sponsors. You've done the T one D exchange survey. And now you're looking for another way to give back to the podcast, super simple. A five star rating and a thoughtful review in whichever audio app you listen in would be amazing. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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#751 Bold Beginnings: School

Bold Beginnings will answer the questions that most people have after a type 1 diabetes diagnosis.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 751 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Jenny Smith and I are back today with another episode of the bull beginning series and today Jenny and I are gonna talk about sending your type ones to school. While you're listening today, don't forget two things. One, Jenny works at integrated diabetes.com You can check her out and higher if you like, and to nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, in fewer than 10 minutes, you could go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out their survey. When you complete the survey. You've helped the podcast, you've helped people living with type one diabetes, and you may just have helped yourself T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Hope you're enjoying the bowl beginning series. It's not done yet, there's more coming. If you've missed the earlier episodes, you don't even have to listen to them in order if you don't want to just go find them

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please go learn about my favorite diabetes organization at touched by type one.org and find them on Facebook and Instagram while you're at it. This episode of the podcast is also sponsored by in pen from Medtronic diabetes, get yourself the insulin pen that gives you much of the functionality of an insulin pump in pen today.com. Jennifer, we're back. Yay. We're gonna do for the bowl beginning series today. Just the very simple headline here school. Now I was surprised. And then I thought about a little bit. There weren't a ton of questions about school. And then I thought oh, maybe that's because they didn't know the questions they ask. So I started adding more stuff to the list because it hit me pretty quickly. Okay, all right. So what ends up happening, if you hear most people's stories, they're diagnosed and school starts a week from now, it's always it's always that story, right? Like you don't get the whole summer to figure it out or something. It's like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:43
it's over a break. Often, right? It's like somebody comes home for like Thanksgiving break or like the the winter holiday or something. And parents, especially for kids who have just gone to college, their parents are like, you don't look, do you feel okay? You know, and, and there's a new diagnosis. And now you get to go back to school two weeks later, let's figure it all.

Scott Benner 3:06
Anecdotally, I've always believed for like, a long time before I'm started making this podcast, just hearing people's stories and writing about diabetes, that people's lives are very like frenetic. And then when you hit a holiday or a vacation, or a long weekend, even you slow down enough to look up and go, there's something wrong with that kid. You know what I mean? Right? So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:30
right, well, and I think when kids go away, you also you miss the everyday visual that you usually have of them. So then when they do come back, and they look very different. I mean, not just like hair color, or how they're dressing now, there's a very visual, physical difference. And you can say, you didn't look like this. When I sent you to school in September.

Scott Benner 3:54
It's the same problem I have is when I'm walking through the house, I'm like, no one's gonna notice I've lost five pounds. So you just go up somebody's like, do you see it? Do you see the five and they're like, You look exactly the same. Thanks a lot.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:07
So take a beach vacation and then come back. And they'd be like, See, I do look different.

Scott Benner 4:13
So you know, just people say, Well, how do we transition? Back to school? Two big question. People want to understand about 504 plans, which I think are I always thought were widely understood. But then I I just realized I only know about them because of Hardin. And so we'll start but we'll start here. This person said it was crazy to me that after diagnosis, I was teaching my daughter's teacher about her care when it was so new to myself, and I didn't really know what I was doing. So I felt like I needed support and resources about transitioning. And she just said she said the schools can't really do much and they don't know anything. I either. And I will say from my own personal experience, the schools would try to how do i mean this? Sometimes principals are politicians, and it's their job to go, everything's fine, you're going to be fine. Your kid is going to be fine. Leave your kid with us. But they're not used to dealing with diabetes. It's always like, like, my, my daughter had a principal one time I swear to you, if you showed up at the front door, and the building was on fire, and people were jumping out the windows, she would have said, Go home, everything's fine. We've done this before. Oh, okay. She's just glad handing you right into, right into hell, you know, so, but when it's diabetes, specifically, what I find they like to say is, uh, we had a kid here last year with diabetes, or there's cars where there's two kids here. And it, it struck me finally, I don't know, the management style of these two kids at the level of their health, like, you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:58
absolutely. That's what I was gonna say. And it's a big one that a lot of when parents asked me, How do we approach this? What do we do about it, and that's one of the first things is to make sure that you have structured the needs to your child, like you said, Many schools have had experience or the nurse has been there long enough that they've had at least one student probably with, with type one diabetes. Again, the school might have a couple, but your child's plan is your child's plan, just because this other child doesn't seem to need accommodation or assistance with things. Their management style is very likely different than what you're doing with your child. And so they're very well we'll need to be some instruction and schools differ school to school system to system private versus public what they have in terms of resources, and allowances, some nurses travel between schools, and they're not always there. So it means establishing somebody that is always at the child's school, for the really young kids who may need somebody to check in with, versus the nurse that's always there. There are so many things that I've heard and seen that I mean, there are 1000s of ways that people address the needs. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:19
And it does really begin with the scenario you're in. I mean, you just said it. But it's, you could be in a school where there's literally no nurse, and right, they're telling you like I don't know if you've ever met Mrs. You know, Smith, she works at the front desk, she's lovely. She'd be happy to give your kids a shot before from you're like, Okay, who she was, she answers the phone. And, you know, and she might end up being a godsend to you like, I have no idea. And but you have to you can't run in there and have all these expectations, and they don't have the infrastructure to handle it. Correct. Right. And you can't just force them. What I've learned dealing with schools, is that they're just people at work. Like you want to think of them as special somehow, because they're a teacher and etc. But they're people, they're at their job. They're not look, I mean, imagine if someone came to your job, Jenny, and they were like, Hey, we saw the things you do every day. That's great. Here's what else I'd like you to do. Right? This is Billy, don't let him die. You're like, Wait, hold on. I don't want that to be my responsibility. And that's what I would run into all the time. I had trouble finding people to be glucagon delegates, because they were like, wait, I'm like, Listen, if this should happen, if Arden has a seizure, you stick this thing in her butt and push the plunger, and you're going to say that's it. Yeah. And you're gonna save, you're gonna wait for 911 and hope and try to keep it from hitting your head on something like, You know what I mean? Like, nothing different than you would do if a kid needed an epi pen? Or? Oh, no, no, I don't want to be involved. The our school nurse had to search the school to find a handful of people who were willing to do what do it. Yeah. And I think,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:57
oh, sorry, go ahead.

Scott Benner 8:59
I didn't blame them.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:01
Right? Not at all. And, and you do. I think there are two definite, like mindsets that you have to have when you're coming up with a plan for your child one, a teacher is first a teacher, that is what they are, therefore, they have all of the other students as well. That doesn't mean that the needs of your child are not important. But you do have to understand that there's there's teaching that needs to happen. There's a purpose for going to school. So then establishing people that can be the check in person. Many times I've found that it's it's a little bit easier when schools have or your child's classroom has a designated like Teacher's Assistant. That's always there. The teacher has the instruction but has the chance to keep teaching where the TA is kind of there to help and assist behind and maybe more the one that you end up teaching more to because they've got a little bit more ability To help, right. But again, each school I think the biggest thing to go to first is whoever the head of the administration is, whether it's the principal or whatnot, what are your accommodations? Have you experienced this before? What What have you seen as protocols, this is what we like for our child. This is what we do. This is how we navigate and manage and have a plan or an idea already. And again, newly diagnosed, you may not know where to start. And that's where the community is very beneficial. And I've seen many, many plans posted, we've done this for our child, or we have these instructional like, you know, decision matrix that if this, then this, and it's very cut and dry and very easy to follow. Some teachers and people in the school are very willing to follow the CGM data, others don't want to do anything other than just respond to an alert message. So again, everything is very different. You kind of have to see what the school can accommodate. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:59
we had a wonderful woman who was like, I have diabetes, I can help. And then we're talking to her and she had type two. And you know, she had never taken insulin before. And she was on Metformin, or something like that. And I was like, Oh, sure. Your skills are not going to translate here. But thank you very much. But we still, you know, she was willing to listen, and so there and learn people, and those are the people we taught, and I think that expectations are important. But it's always the seasol to me, you know, it's like, Well, I think my kids should have stable blood sugars at school. And then your school might say, Look, we're not comfortable bumping 150 blood sugar for your kid, like we're not going to do well, we'll treat over whatever the the orders from the doctor say. And that's, that's where I'll tell you, there's a simple sentence that you can put in your order from your doctors, if you can get your doctors to write this. Like, I don't you'll learn it any way you will. But basically, what it says is, these are the rules, unless the parents say otherwise. And then we and then we defer to the parents, and that way you can make to help make decisions. Yes, but you still might run into a nurse or somebody at the school is like, look, there's five kids that have diabetes, the school, we don't do this for any of them. And somehow they think that's a rule, then, you know, and so the way I always think about it is this. School is a long process, you're going to be in the same building. For a number of years, you might move to another building for a number of years, it's still the same system. These people work with each other, they know each other. You have to find a way to get what you want. Without being a pariah. You can't be the person that when you walk in the front door, they look up and they go oh, God, it's Jenny, you.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:48
Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 12:52
With this Johnny, with a

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:54
fake smile on your face, and like, Hi, how are you today? In the back of your mind, you're like, oh, no, hate

Scott Benner 13:01
me. Because I because I'm in here going, like, you know, I need you to correct a 120 blood sugar because I don't want my kids blood sugar to be that high. Right? I think that in the end. To break it down. You need, you need to have a plan that you can teach to someone else. Correct. If you're newly diagnosed, I think you need to explain to them, listen, we're just figuring this out. This whole thing is going to be kind of malleable for a little while. I'd appreciate it. If you could roll with this a little bit. I'm also figuring it out. I think you have to understand I don't want to say this. I don't mean this poorly. But I don't imagine that there are many nurses who are one minute at the premier children's hospital in the country working in the PICU that wake up one morning and go you know, I think I want to be a nurse at a middle school in my town. Like, these might be people towards the end of their career. Their training might be older, who knows what what the situation is right? But they're probably not Doctor House is what I'm getting at? Probably not Yeah, it's so they might have ideas in their head that are from a kid they helped three years ago, years ago, five years ago, 20 years ago, you have no idea. So you're, you're educating yourself. You're educating them along with them. But what I ended up figuring out, and then we'll go to some people's questions. I know I've said this in different places on the podcast, but it belongs here in this episode. For kindergarten, first second grade, Arden went to the nurse on a schedule. There was no there's no CGM at that point. So she was she was just going to nursing finger sticks shooting we had her like broke. I basically broke up the day in a way that I thought it seems unreasonable that she'll be she'll get low in my gaps of time, and I look back she never did get low. Oh, of course Ray once he was like eight, so her blood sugar's were pretty elevated to begin with

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Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:27
But you started I think what you're saying here is that even a couple years in, you were really going off of not only technology that you had, but also a baseline that you could teach. That worked easily because it was a structured schedule. And for the newly diagnosed going into a school type setting, I think that's the best that you can really start with is these are the basics that need to be done to keep my child safe. And to allow learning because that's obviously the reason you're sending your kid there to is is to learn. Yeah, and if they're getting interrupted all the time, because of of alerts and alarms and things that are too aggressive for this point in diagnosis. It's not helping anybody

Scott Benner 18:16
well, and and what ended up happening was I basically spent the time from an origin was to till she was five, figuring out an ebb and flow to the day where she wouldn't get low. And then I sent her to kindergarten with that. The school was resistant about some of the things I wanted. And they didn't help her with a couple of things I'll bring up in a second. It happened, we had it set up where she tested, tested, tested, then at lunchtime or snack time even she'd go to the nurse's office, they would test her call me Tell me the number. And I would tell them how much insulin to use. And then they would send her back on her way. And she'd come back and test again. And this would happen before it would happen before snack recess at lunch where she'd get tested. And one day, my timer went off for for recess, and no one called me. So we did a couple of minutes. And I waited a couple more. And I have to tell you, I mean looking back on it. It was I was in like abject horror at that point. It just like we haven't total panic mode is going on, you know, is she is she having a problem? And they're helping her is like, I don't know. So finally I just call the school and I was like, Hey, Scott, you didn't call me about Arden. And the woman. The nurse said, Oh my god, Arden and she slammed down the phone and she was gone. And I was like, and you're like okay, what uh, what is that mean? So I sat there for a second and I thought, well, now she knows I know. And she knows she seems to know something to our way. Right? And she calls back and she goes Hi Arden's with me. She's fine. And I'm like, okay, And then they test her. So a little boy came in with a heart issue and had to be put on a monitor. And they just forgot Arden. And Arden went right from school. And because the nurse didn't come together, she was in kindergarten, she went right out on the playground. So they chant, they plucked Arden with a 50 blood sugar off the top of the monkey bars, and brought her inside. And I then went to the school and said, Look, this is what I was telling you about. Like, we can't just hope that the nice person in the nurse's office remembers to save our son's life every day at 1015. Like, you know, like, we need to and then they were more willing to listen to the ideas that I had. Right. When Arden left second grade, maybe one of the luckiest things that ever happened to her was that her teacher and teachers will know this phrase, I don't know what it is, but her teacher wanted to move from second grade to third grade with the kids. Okay, so she did that. She taught the kids in second grade, went to third grade and taught the same group of kids.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:59
That's a nice school that does that was very cool. And a frequent thing. By

Scott Benner 21:03
the way, that person that teacher was that Arden's graduation, like she showed up at her high school graduation and went around and found every one of those kids and took a picture with them. It was very, very nice. But what ended up happening for Arden was, we had we had fresh eyes that also knew the past. And Arden was struggling in math. So the woman calls me one day. And she says, I know why are you struggling with math.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:30
And I said, why she where she is with her blood sugar at that time of day

Scott Benner 21:34
when we sent her to the nurse. So the math instructor would start five minutes into it every day, Arden would get up and quietly leave the room and go to the nurse's office, come back five, seven minutes later missed the instruction, and then put her head down and try to do the work. Yeah, no one ever noticed. It just it just because it was such a part of the day. And it took her a couple of years to rebound and catch up from that because they were still moving forward. She had to learn the back stuff. And it was that moment. I was like, Okay, we're done. And that's if you go to episode for the podcast, I talked about how I figured out how to text diabetes. And Martin has never been to the nurse's office since that that moment. So the last day of like the last day of second grade. Because she contacted us over the summer and told me that.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:21
And that's something to navigate to, you know, because some school systems again, with these plans, you really have to think about how they're written. Because if they're not written specific to what you have worked out and is safe with your child to do texting, diabetes, not having to go to the nurse, the nurse is there in case of need or somebody else. But otherwise, it's just navigated between you and your child. I would say that that's, that's less common. And it's it's kind of a special school or a special written plan that really worked out that way. I've seen much more the, the child has to check in with somebody. And even if your child is very able to do majority of what they're doing on their own, because they do it in the summer, on their own or on weekends or whatever. You have to kind of almost prove that they can do that. Before they'll let you not check in with someone. Yeah,

Scott Benner 23:21
no, I mean, I very specifically on my end, I don't I didn't you know, I was a stay at home parent. So I wasn't at a job. But I could make that part of my day. I mean, if right. I don't know how it would work for other people. But it it definitely. It definitely freed her up to move around the building better. It actually helped us fix problems more quickly, right? Like she didn't have to go to the nurse to find out that she was low and get something like we would do it in the rain. It's how she started bolusing like she would Bolus in class before going to lunch stuff like that. It's not going to work for everybody, for sure. But it was the way I found to get around this stuff that just kept coming up, you know? Yep.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:05
And that's it. I mean, that's important. Absolutely. I've even seen many comments from parents who have problems with any accommodation at all. My my teachers won't do that. They don't have time to do that. Your child isn't special. They don't need this kind of accommodation. I mean, I've seen the total opposite in terms of assistance, which obviously is not what you want to walk into.

Scott Benner 24:31
Why what I would do is every year in the summertime, I'd go and meet with Ardens teacher, and I would explain diabetes to them. Because they're not going to know right? And so you say things like you don't want their blood sugar to get low. They don't know what that means. Yeah, like a great like, why? Because when I'm 60 I don't feel well and when I'm 50 I'm dizzy but do they know like your brain will shut off when you're 20 like I don't know what they know and you will also want to be able to tell them listen And this is a real concern. And we need to guard against this. Having said that, I don't imagine it's going to happen. But then again, correct, yeah, a light doesn't go off on your forehead before you're going to your blood sugar goes to 35. Like, it's just no, nobody tells you ahead of time, you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:17
well, and one thing that does hit from a teacher level, obviously, that's their job is to instruct, right? One thing that really sort of comes across in terms of the importance of glucose. And what their job is supposed to be is giving some baseline information about blood sugar level, and learning ability. blood sugars here and here outside of this range, are going to mean that my child may be fidgety may not be paying attention may be causing problems, when it's not, it's not what they want to be doing. It's because their blood sugar isn't right. Thus, my kid isn't going to be learning what you're trying to teach them, it's going to be disruptive. So if you help us to keep their blood sugar in this range, you can continue instructing better, my child will keep learning better. And it's a win win. Right? That's a point that often makes sense from the teacher angle is the association between learning ability, attention ability, and glucose levels.

Scott Benner 26:24
And I, I shone a light on security and, and health and I told them about long term health too. I said, Yes, we because they're like, Well, why don't we just leave our blood sugar higher? And I said, because, you know, there's, there's damage that comes from that, to that it's more long term. I think the way I put it in one meeting one time is I said, Listen, if you want to keep Arden's blood sugar at 200, all day, why don't I just pull her out of school, send her to an island and let her live her life? You know, it's like, because at least she'll be healthy. Like, maybe she won't have an education, she won't know how to, like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:00
work or help herself or know how to pick coconuts. But she'll be

Scott Benner 27:03
alive. And you know, like that. I'm like, That's not okay, either. And they're like, Well, I don't understand why this kid. We don't we don't help this kid until their blood sugar gets to 200. I was like, well, that's their decision, like, No, it's not okay. And you're right, you have to, you kind of have to be both sides of the conversation, you need to get what you need, without upsetting anyone. And you have to be helping them. It's in negotiation, that you're the only one who cares how it goes. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Right. So you almost have to defend the person who you're negotiating with the same time I used to put, every year I would find something in Arden's 504 plan that we didn't need any more. And I would give it away at the 504 meeting to make them feel better. I'd be like, no need to do this anymore. Like you know, you're doing this, you don't need to let's make this easier for you and get rid of this. And then that we'd leave the room and they'd be like, Oh, good. I got. And, and, and meanwhile, you were never really adding things to 504 plans, you were kind of just manipulating them to make them work for the age range, like all the sudden, like standardized tests, or the technology

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:14
that you now have. Right, right, right, God, yeah. I mean, as that changes there, and especially with the technology that's changing the way that it is right now, with all of the FDA approved products, there is less attention that a teacher or a nurse may need to give, it doesn't mean that they don't need to know how to help in the case that it comes up. But this technology can certainly be something to educate them. While their system is going to do this, it should be catching these kinds of things, they still need to touch base, or they still need to check in with you about this. So again, those might be the touch points, kind of like you're saying that you don't have to really do as much. They got something here helping but we still need this in this in this.

Scott Benner 29:01
In the end, you can set up a 504 plan, which is going to give you some legal backing, like once it's in the 504 plan, they have to do it. But there are you do need to understand private schools don't need to accept kids no matter what. Right.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 29:20
That? That's an interesting question. I mean, private schools typically have different rules than public schools. And if they don't have accommodations, it often falls to the parent to find the accommodation so that their child can stay in that private environment.

Scott Benner 29:41
And preschools fall into that heading to Yes, it's might be hard difficult to find a preschool who's willing to do this for you. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it is very interesting. Okay. So some of the things that I've run into no matter what you're gonna Get your kids schedule, and they're gonna have gym right before or after lunch or lunch and you're gonna be like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:08
a lot of fun, I've got a couple little kids who got, they've got recess, then they've got snack time. And then they go to gym class. That's fine, yay,

Scott Benner 30:20
write it off, and then pour it in, then put insolate in, and then have him run some more. Yes,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:26
that's fun. And it's not every day. So you can't even accommodate like an everyday like, pattern or something. It's like Tuesdays and Friday. And this is what

Scott Benner 30:36
I know, I actually did have in one of Ardennes accommodations that they couldn't put activity right next to lunch. But it took me a couple of years to get them to agree to that. And so and it was hard. I mean, it was hard to get them to do that, to be perfectly honest, that was every year,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:54
because it's a manipulation of what the schedule is going to look like for everybody, then it doesn't just affect her, every kid in her class is going to also not be able to have

Scott Benner 31:04
or you have to put a class where she doesn't belong to make it work, etc. And in the end, I never made them do anything. We always did come to an agreement along the way, because I was never looking to be like I I mean, I don't know if I was or not. But I was trying very hard not to be like, Oh God, here he comes, you know, like, I don't want to talk to that guy hide. When Arden went into high school, and the nurse said, I actually brought along the nursing staff. So I learned this in elementary, from elementary school to middle school, I brought the nursing staff from the elementary school to my first meeting with the nursing staff from the middle school, that's a great idea. Because I was like, I'm gonna say I do a bunch of stuff, it's gonna sound crazy to you. And this person right here knows how it works. And so that made the next person. So when I got to the high school, I did it. But the nurse was just like, well, that's not how I do it here. And she pushed back and she had like a big personality. And she goes, I like having a relationship with all my type one students. And I said, Well, that sounds lovely. But in my world, I would love it if my daughter didn't know you. Right? That's what we're shooting for. Okay? Just like every other kid in the school does not want to end up in the nurse's office. I don't, I'm sure you're wonderful. I bet you make it fun for the type ones. But that's not our goal here. So she pushed, she pushed back and pushed back and I was like, listen, it's not what we're doing. Like, it's not gonna happen, like, we're gonna bring some supplies. And if something gets completely upside down, or Arden has to swap a pump or something like that, you'll see her, right. And that's how it ended up going. And she was okay with that after a while, you know, but it took way to talk about it. They had to they had to wait and take time. Nobody ever yelled at each other. That's the other thing. If you're yelling, it's over. Like don't don't lose your don't lose yourself there. I think. You know, as we're talking about this, I wonder if I couldn't create a place online where people can upload their 504

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:03
plans. That would be I think, a really great resource. I mean, kind of like, kind of like you have a place online for people to look for good endos, or good doctors or good educators? That would be a really great resource.

Scott Benner 33:18
Yeah, I wonder if we couldn't just turn them into PDFs and put them so people could look at them can look at them. Because

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:23
you I would even say maybe categorize them, like, toddler age, like almost preschool, you know, grade school, middle school, high school, so that as you filter through them, you can go age appropriate. Yeah. For what your accommodation might look like, or how it might change. Like you said, you took your nurse along to prove to the next entry level of kind of school age, this is what work this is what we did, it is just fine. You know, please accommodate.

Scott Benner 33:51
I'm thinking that because like I'm looking at a question here, like, what do I do if my kid wants to skip lunch at school? Like, I don't know how to answer that question. Like, yeah, I mean, I do. But it's, it's not something you're going to put in a 504 plan or something like that in so there's going to be more, there's going to be more scenarios that are really going to be on you to kind of like dance with then just hoping that there'll be in this document and that fixes everything.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:16
Right? The document really should be very specific needs, right? Not what ifs. In right in what if my kid doesn't want his snack in the morning or doesn't want the snack that was packed and prefers the cupcake that came in as the birthday treat? Yeah, what if what?

Scott Benner 34:33
Yeah, no, the 504 plan can't incorporate everything that your anxiety might put into your head on from day to day like it's like Ardens was stuff like Arden has a bag with her. It'll have these things in it. If there is an emergency in the school, you need to make sure that bag goes with Arden and that was when she was younger. Right? And then as she got older, the language changed slightly to like you can't restrict Arden from taking the bag, you know, once it was on her to remember the bag, right? You know if Arden's load, do this, then do this then call 911, after you've done that call the parents or we had stuff like you have to get the school bus driver trained to understand basic, like stuff like that. Yeah, it wasn't like if Arden decides at 3pm that she wants to x, then you have to, like you can't. I know, that's what people want. But this documents not going to be. It's not everything, you know, it's just it's, it's the stuff.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:35
And if anything, that kind of detail may make it very confusing as to the very, very real and important things that really should be being done every single day. The same way.

Scott Benner 35:47
Yeah, right. But little things like as Arden got older, she would write her blood sugar on the top of a test before she started taking it. So she'd look at her CGM and write her blood sugar on the top. And that way, if the test came back, crazy, wonky, different than you expect her skills to be, we could say, hey, look, her blood sugar was high, maybe you could let her take it again. Right we've ever

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:09
done with a CGM, you could have followed what happened to the blood sugar, you know, maybe blood sugar started out fine at 101. But then in test taking, she's not really paying attention. And it really starts to dip there too. You can follow that information to be able to go back and say, you know, could we potentially do you do this?

Scott Benner 36:25
It's funny. So if I, if I started this episode over and decided to make it two minutes long, I would say you're in a relationship with these people. Now. It needs to be harmonious. There might be times where you have to bite your tongue. You don't want to get into a fight with anybody. It's a long process. You might be with them for 12 years. And there are going to be times they're gonna say things that you're like, that's not right. But you got to understand their perspective, too. And make it work. Yeah, it's like being married. Except I'm just gonna say without the sex. But you know, if you've been married, I've been married.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:05
Yeah, there's give and take. Yes, exactly.

Scott Benner 37:07
You give a lot and somebody takes a lot. If you're lucky, your kid gets his lunch on time. Okay, all right, Jenny. Well, thank you very much, of course.

A huge thank you to Jenny Smith for being here with me again today. And I'd like to remind you that you can hire Jenny integrated diabetes.com. I'd also like to thank Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes. If you're looking for an insulin pen that does more, you're looking for the in pen in pen today.com. In a few moments, I'll tell you a lot about the show. But one of the things I'll tell you is how to find the series. So if you've just stumbled upon this one, and you'd like to find the rest, there's a way to do that. I'll be telling you about it in just a second.

If you're into helping people, especially people with type one diabetes, I'd like to ask you have to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. When you get there, fill out the survey completely. And you've helped somebody, all you need to be is a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, t one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox. Join the registry, complete the survey, help someone with type one diabetes, help yourself perhaps, and support the Juicebox Podcast, you will do all of this in the fewer than 10 minutes that it will take to go to that link and complete the survey. The survey is very simple. You'll know all the answers to all the questions. It is also HIPAA compliant and completely anonymous. T one D exchange.org. Ford slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. To all of the sponsors. And to T one D exchange. When you take the time to click on my links or to type them in a browser. You're telling the sponsors that you came from the Juicebox Podcast and that is a wonderful way to support the show. Are you looking for a vibrant and intelligent community around diabetes? look no farther than the Facebook page, the private Facebook page for the Juicebox Podcast. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. The group has over 28,000 members and those members are responsible for between 70 and 110 new posts every day on the Facebook page. Every conceivable count conversation around diabetes is happening at Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook, you're gonna see great questions, thoughtful answers, and supportive people. No matter if you're an adult living with type one diabetes, or the caregiver of someone with type one, this group is for you. Doesn't matter if you eat low carb, or high carb or somewhere in between your questions and thoughts are welcome on our Facebook page. I hope you check it out. Last little bit if you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series, or the defining diabetes series are any of the other multitude of series that exists within the podcast. You can find them in a number of ways. They are at juicebox podcast.com. They are at diabetes protip.com. And if you belong to the private Facebook group, you can find them listed in the featured tab. Now if you're enjoying the podcast, please consider sharing it with someone else that helps the podcast grow more than anything word of mouth is definitely how the show has become what it is. If you have already shared it with everybody you can think of and you've bought it on the potter Dexcom are supported one of the other sponsors. You've done the T one D exchange survey. And now you're looking for another way to give back to the podcast. Super simple. A five star rating and a thoughtful review in whichever audio app you listen in would be amazing. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Test your knowledge of episode 751

1. Why is early diagnosis and treatment of type 1 diabetes important?

• To prevent complications and manage the condition effectively
• To avoid using insulin
• To reduce the need for blood sugar monitoring
• It has no impact

2. What are the common symptoms of type 1 diabetes?

• Increased thirst, frequent urination, and weight loss
• Reduced appetite, weight gain, and high energy levels
• Sleepiness and reduced thirst
• All of the above

3. What is the role of insulin therapy in managing diabetes?

• To reduce blood pressure
• To manage blood sugar levels
• To eliminate the need for exercise
• It has no role

4. Why is carbohydrate counting important in diabetes management?

• It helps in proper insulin dosing
• It should be avoided
• It has no impact
• It is only relevant for type 2 diabetes

5. How should blood sugar levels be managed during exercise?

• By ignoring them
• By closely monitoring and adjusting insulin as needed
• By avoiding physical activities
• By reducing insulin dosage

6. How can stress and emotional health affect diabetes management?

• They can impact blood sugar levels
• They have no impact
• They only affect type 2 diabetes
• They should be ignored

7. What are the benefits of having a diabetes care team?

• To manage the emotional and practical aspects of diabetes
• To avoid physical activities
• To ensure proper carb counting
• To reduce the need for insulin

8. Why is it important to stay informed about new research and advancements in diabetes care?

• It can improve management strategies
• It has no impact
• It is only relevant to healthcare providers
• It can lead to more complications

Submit

Change Answers

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#750 Tour De Force

Pam has had type 1 diabetes for 50 years.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
You are listening to Episode 750 of the Juicebox Podcast

we are all in for a real treat today because Pam has had type one diabetes for a very long time, and she's going to share a lot of it with us today, you're gonna learn about diabetes, you're going to learn about being married about love and loss and life. It's a tour de force this episode. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, and are a US resident or our US resident, and are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes, go to T one D exchange.org. Ford slash juicebox. complete the survey. And you've helped someone with type one diabetes, you may have helped yourself and you've definitely helped the show. T one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox completely HIPAA compliant, absolutely anonymous. It only takes 10 minutes or less.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Today's episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Arden uses it. We love it. And you can have one to contour next one.com forward slash juice box.

Pam 1:57
Hi, I'm Pamela. And I've had type one diabetes for 50 years.

Scott Benner 2:02
And Pamela you're 51 years old. Is that right?

Pam 2:06
No, I was diagnosed at 22.

Scott Benner 2:09
Okay, you're 72 years old.

Pam 2:13
72 years young.

Scott Benner 2:15
You know, the other day, someone made a big deal to me that I didn't look my age. And as I was having the conversation with him, I kept saying I'm 50 years old. And we turned around and took three steps away. And Arden says you know you're 51 Right. And good. And I said no, I am not. Is that what happened my last birthday? And she's like, Yeah, your last birthday? You were 51? I said, Oh, I have to stop saying I'm 50 then. Anyway, 70 TuesdayA feels like quite an accomplishment, I imagine.

Pam 2:46
Yeah, I guess 72 is the new 50 though, isn't it?

Scott Benner 2:49
Is that what they're gonna say? That's what I've heard or read. Is that Did you read that in a place where you're, you're back didn't hurt or

Pam 2:59
nothing hurts on me. Thank God.

Scott Benner 3:03
Oh, yeah, let's let's find out a little bit about all that. That's probably something else. So 20 G's 22 years old. 50 years ago? What year was that?

Pam 3:13
Around 1972. Wow. Because I was 17 in 1967 when I graduated high school and so.

Scott Benner 3:25
So I'm going to tell you I was born in 71. So that's probably about right on.

Pam 3:31
Perfect. Yeah, I think that is right. Uh huh. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:34
Do you remember anything about that at all?

Pam 3:37
Oh, yeah. I was living in Los Angeles. I was a professional singer, musician. And I was losing weight. But I didn't notice it because I'm pretty thin anyway. And so if you lose, if you're losing two pounds, you know, a month. I kept thinking, well, I exercise a lot. I'm just toning up, you know. And I went home to visit my folks in Kansas City. And they took one look at me, and they said, get on the scale. You know, I didn't even own a scale. So my dad says, Your 90 pounds, you know, I thought Oh, God. And I remember when I was in LA that I was in the movie theater with a girlfriend I was holding up. I don't even know how big they are those huge family size Cokes. I mean, I never drink that stuff anymore. But she said, Pam, I'm embarrassed. We're in a movie theater and you're holding up this whatever. 64 ounce bottle. So I guess I was really starving for sugar. Right? Right. And I was so my parents said Tomorrow morning, we're going to go to your cousin who's a urologist and he's going to check you out. up. I was in his office for a few seconds. And he said, You're going to the hospital? So my blood sugar was 1200.

Scott Benner 5:10
Wow. How long do you think that had been going on before you made it to the doc problems?

Pam 5:16
Probably at least a year or two, maybe it was lower. And it just kept getting more and more, I really don't know. You know, I had no way to know. But I went into the hospital and a woman who was very nice, came in and showed me how to inject myself with insulin. She showed me on an orange and then every time I chewed it into myself, I think that the orange, so I'm just gonna sip a little water here, you're fine. So and then another woman came. And she said, I've been diabetic for, I don't know, 40 years, she was probably in her 50s. And she told me that she had no complications. She told me what she did everything she did was, you know, good. And I thought that's going to be me. And I felt so good after having insulin. Oh, my God. I was like the old knee again. Right. So it wasn't depressing for me. It was a rescue. Thank you. Yeah, no, no, of course. So that's, that's that was my beginning.

Scott Benner 6:27
Wow. How did you make it out to LA to be a singer? Because that's not what you ended up doing through your life. Is that right?

Pam 6:34
Well, I did that for 20 years. I was I played Funny Girl in Fanny. I played Fanny Brice and Funny Girl musical in high school. And I decided that I was going to devote my life to music. And I, my parents, I knew if I said I want to move to LA, they would have said, No, you have to go to college. So I was in my sophomore year I, I went to USC, and they had a musical comedy workshop with the Civic light opera that I got into. And so they would work with me every night while I went to college. And then I dropped out because I got on a TV show. And I dropped out of school. And then my you know, my parents were thrilled. And they watched me and you know, it was all good. All right,

Scott Benner 7:18
Pamela, what TV show? Are you on? Pam?

Pam 7:21
Oh, God. I mean, this is the Flintstone era. Right. Let's see. That was Jim Nabors musical variety show. Really? Yeah. You know, go. He used to play Gomer Pile.

Scott Benner 7:35
I know, I know who you're talking about. I'm, I'm worried that I know what you're talking about. Even more worse? Scary. You said that like, oh, well, you're not gonna know what I'm saying. But I know, that's what you like a background singer or a player? Well,

Pam 7:53
they, they, I was the ethnic girl. They had an African American woman, you know, a blonde and I was the brunette and there were four guys and four women. And we would sing, you know, with Jim and do skits. And I mean, just everything really, it was really fun. But after a year, I thought, I'm going to end up like these other women being BACKUP SINGERS for the rest of my life. So I quit. And I started traveling, you know, to Japan and the Playboy Club circuit and all you know, that's what I did for 20 years. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 8:31
have to tell you, the funniest thing is that at that time, what passed for an ethnic girl was a was a white girl from Kansas with dark hair.

Pam 8:40
A Jewish girl. Oh,

Scott Benner 8:42
I see. I see. That's how I got. That's what passed for ethnicity at that point.

Pam 8:48
Right. Right. Right, by

Scott Benner 8:51
the way, and not for nothing. How did the Jewish person ended up in Kansas?

Pam 8:55
You know, there are millions of people in Kansas. I mean, they're just an incredibly large amount.

Scott Benner 9:02
There's, I didn't realize there was a big community there. That's interesting. Yeah. Huge. That's something so All right. Well, I now think you're famous from this story. And anybody my age or older believes that but everyone younger is like she said, Jim Nabors, I don't know what that means. I know. I know. It's very interesting. Okay, so so when you went home and you were diagnosed, did you ever go back to LA or did they did that? Is that what brought you home?

Pam 9:33
No, I had just gone to you know, I was diagnosed and and I went to the hospital and once I felt good, I went back to LA did

Scott Benner 9:39
go back. Okay. Yeah. How much longer did you stay?

Pam 9:44
20 years. Oh, wow. No, I left when I was 40 years old, and I moved back to Kansas City. And when I was 43, I met my late husband, who was incredible and we were married 30 years. He I got a year and a half ago. And so that's why I'm back in Kansas City. But I love Kansas City. I mean, I, you know, I grew up here so

Scott Benner 10:08
yeah, I'm sorry Kansas City, Kansas, Kansas City, Missouri,

Pam 10:13
Overland Park, Kansas. Okay. Okay. And I, well, when I up till nine, I was in Missouri, and then we moved across the state line a few blocks, and I was in Kansas. So

Scott Benner 10:25
first, a change of pace. Okay, so there's a lot of richness going on here. Hold on a second. So after you decided, I don't want to be a backup singer anymore. You were still in LA for quite some time. So what did you do between those years?

Pam 10:38
Right. I was so lucky. I got my agent booked me in Japan. And I got to go to Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto. And I would be like a tourist in the day and I would explore and then at night, I'd sing with a great big 17 piece band, I had big band charts that my arranger made for me, and the stage would be spinning around and there were all these Japanese or Asian men, there were no women. And then I would sing, you know, and then, you know, maybe Osaka and Kyoto there might have just been a trio. And then I did the Playboy circuit, which was really an archaic. I'm sure no one that's 30 years old, even has ever heard of it or even 40 but they'd have a comedian open, and then I would sing after that.

Scott Benner 11:35
Okay. Pam, you for clarity. You had your clothes on while you were saying,

Pam 11:39
oh, oh, yeah, I was really I was already a feminist at that age. I was I was kind of like, not happy these women had to wear those bunny suits. It was I thought it was really weird. But you know,

Scott Benner 11:52
so interesting. Wow. So you made a living like that that whole time? You never married in that time?

Pam 11:58
No, I you know, I had this I made this vow you know that I was going to sing until I was famous and and you know, I recorded with Richard carpenter after his sister died, but a&m Records was afraid to put me on with with him. So they got Dionne Warwick instead. And Dusty Springfield, they thought because it was his solo album, and they thought that would sell better. But, you know, after that, I was pretty disappointed. And I, I decided that I was kind of burnout that I wanted to go home and be near my family.

Scott Benner 12:33
So So through all this time, the 70s the 80s. I mean, when did you move home? What year? Do you remember?

Pam 12:40
Yes. 1990. Okay,

Scott Benner 12:43
so 70s 80s Up until 1990. You're living this life in a world where diabetes management is pretty shaky. So how did you think about your diabetes during that time? Or did you not or how did it?

Pam 12:57
Oh, I did. I had my cousin out there knew the best endocrinologist I think, honestly, in the face of the earth at that time, Dr. Sherman Hovey, and he was president of the ADEA. He had a support group, he had a diabetic educator, he had you could call anytime, day or night, and somebody would be there to help you. It was unbelievable. And he told me, Pam, you know, you have a couple choices here. Your you can either take care of yourself, exercise, measure your food, with your insulin, and you know, I've always eaten a lot of carbs. And, or, you know, don't do those things. And you can you might suffer the complication. So I thought he was my inspiration really, he? He inspired me to. He said he ran on the beach every morning, five miles, you know, and I thought, okay, I can do that. Yeah. So. So anyway, I kind of had good role models,

Scott Benner 14:05
okay. And what was management? Like? I mean, you were animal insulin at first, right?

Pam 14:10
Oh, my God. We had urine sticks. That's how we checked our blood sugar. If it was dark green, you were super high. If it was really light green, you were wonderful.

Unknown Speaker 14:23
So that was the whole thing. Yeah, that was it.

Pam 14:27
And then your years later, they came out with glucose glucose meters with foot kilometer.

Scott Benner 14:34
They were bigger back then though, right?

Pam 14:38
Yeah. And I thought, you know, I was living alone. And I thought, I'll just check my blood sugar 10 times a day because that way, I won't blackout and you know, that that'll be that'll be the best way to go. And I was singing, you know, and so on the 45 Minute shows and you go into the bathroom. On the break, check your blood sugar, come back out. And, you know, so that's just what I did. Because singing burns up a lot of glucose, you know, you're jumping around and all that. Yeah. Pam, did

Scott Benner 15:11
you blackout frequently?

Pam 15:14
No. The only time I had one blackout. Well, two and 50 years I've had to. I was driving on the freeway from Santa St. I can't remember where I was San Diego or somewhere. I would did a recording session. And the person that was recording me took me to dinner. Just a nice guy, you know, friends, and I don't drink. I still don't drink. But that night, I probably had a fourth have a glass of wine. And I probably was so focused on talking that I didn't think about my carbs. So. So my car. Yeah, so I blacked out. Wow. Yeah, and I'm alive. I mean, is a miracle. Really?

Scott Benner 16:05
Was that? Did you ever seizure? Yeah, that's how you would put it right. And how did you I would call it how did you come back from it? Like did someone help you? Or

Pam 16:13
well, I was, you know, 65 miles an hour on the freeway I pulled into I didn't know who I was or where I was I it was like a surreal nightmare.

Scott Benner 16:32
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Pam 19:33
And I pulled in to the side of the freeway, the left side and the police were knocking on my window. And I thought I guess eventually I opened the door and they took me to the hospital. I probably had a diabetic bracelet on and that was sat and the other time when I was married my husband You know, he knew when I was acting strange that my blood sugar was low. And so he wanted to call paramedics. I said, No, do not call them I was like banging on his arm, which I've never would do normally. And then the next thing you know, he said, I was out laying on the floor, you know, so that was my two escapades never had anything since. And I've never I don't think I ever will, because I'm so well controlled. And I, you know, I've Dexcom and all that. So,

Scott Benner 20:28
yes, back. So back in those days, though, in the beginning, did they measure a one C or how did you measure? Yeah.

Pam 20:35
Oh, yeah. I was about in the high fives.

Scott Benner 20:38
Okay. Did you eat a particular diet? Or?

Pam 20:42
Yeah, okay, I did the the woman that taught me at Dr. holdings office told me, you know, I would eat four carbs a meal 20 grams of fat because the fat slows down the rise of glucose. Fruit. And they gave me a booklet, you know, that diabetic booklet with all the little foods and how much they Yeah, the equation. And so what else do I have? All of that every day? Every day? Yeah, tons and tons of carbs. But now, you know, as I got older, I started doing research when I could on the phone and saw that high fiber doesn't escalate your blood sugar very much. And so, I mean, now I've been eating high fiber for almost all a great part of those 50 years. And, you know, people talk about how diabetic people say they want to eat chocolate cake, or, you know, I haven't wanted that because I'll eat a mango. 90 grams of a mango is 15 carbs. So I put it on my little scale. And it's to me the best, you know, my taste buds have changed.

Scott Benner 21:55
You probably you prefer the sweetness come from? From some natural from fruit. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Pam 22:04
No, I just said I don't like to take chances. And so I don't, it's not worth it to me to go out and you know, have a hot fudge sundae when I don't even want it anyway. I mean, the thought of it almost gags I know what it would do to me, you know, and then I'd have to chase the blood sugar with it. The pump the Dexcom in the My Omni pod, and I'm looping with the Reilly link which is changed my life. Right? That, you know, I? I mean, I guess I know that type one. People with type one do do that. They can't they eat something real sweet. And they work it out. And there's things you can do with your Reilly link or whatever looping device you're on. But for me, I just don't want to take the chance because I like I said, it's not a big deal. So I don't crave that stuff.

Scott Benner 23:00
Yeah. Would you consider yourself a lower carb eater like your overall daily carbs?

Pam 23:06
Well, I have four for breakfast for for lunch and five for dinner.

Scott Benner 23:09
And that includes the fruit. Yeah. Wow.

Pam 23:14
And then the 20 grams of fat, which does not it's not the lean meat included in the lean meat. It's outside of that. And then what else? I don't know.

Scott Benner 23:23
Damn, I gotta tell you, you're 72 and I'm gonna ask I'm gonna start eating your diet.

Pam 23:30
Well, you know, it's really good. I mean, my cholesterol is so low. My a one C is a five. Now I don't recommend that for anyone listening to this program. But for me, it works because I'm very careful. And I exercise the first thing after breakfast, I'm on the treadmill. 30 minutes and then I do yoga. I'm a yoga teacher now, last 30 to 4050 20 years. So you know I do I stand on my head. I do all kinds of crazy stuff. But all works and then I go about my day. So that's my life. Basically.

Scott Benner 24:08
I want to pick through it a little more with you got up this morning. You ate breakfast. What do you have?

Pam 24:14
I the same thing for breakfast every day. High fiber waffle. It's got 21 carbs and then fruit, apple sauce on my oatmeal with and I became lactose intolerant this year, which is really fun. So I take these lactose pills and then I have lactose, you know no lactose yogurt, but I still have to take them because I react anyway. So that's what I eat. And then what else? I guess that's it. Peanut butter. Peanut butter on the waffle. Oh, not almond butter. I used to do peanut butter. I'm almond butters real super healthy. My endocrinologist in California told me so.

Scott Benner 24:57
I'm confused about one thing so a second ago. I thought you said the waffle had like 21 carbs in it. Is that right does oatmeal, but earlier you said like like three and four and five at a meal but what I'm misunderstanding, okay, you're saying okay,

Pam 25:13
okay, so the oatmeal has 20 carbs that brings it up to 41 The fruit has 1541 and 15 is 56. And then I'll eat one Triscuit

Scott Benner 25:30
Oh, so you have a meal with like over 50 carbs in it for breakfast.

Pam 25:35
It's got 60 yet 60 Really? Okay. And then

Scott Benner 25:38
how much insulin is that for you in the morning?

Pam 25:41
Well, I can tell you that my overall Basal rate all day is to 2.1 It used to be for

Scott Benner 25:50
weight tell me 2.1 An hour or 2.1?

Pam 25:53
No all day. My Basal right now that's without the food. You know, that's just my you know, Basal

Scott Benner 26:00
way I'm fine. Hold on one second. I'm getting I'm pulling up a calculator. I know we were gonna have so much fun. Hold on a second. All right. So if you're doing I'm just going to round it and say two divided by 24. You're getting less than point one an hour and Basal. How much less than point one

Pam 26:22
or around No, point. It's it's point 05 points all day. And all night except for o 10. You know, for two hours in the afternoon and at night. It's 25 and 35. What do you know, one hour of 25 and one hour of 35? How much do you know? Oh point 35.

Scott Benner 26:46
Yeah, yeah. How much do you weigh?

Pam 26:49
118 117.

Scott Benner 26:51
Is this a chair? Okay, so did you. I'm assuming you. Pam I am assuming you went through menopause like 20 years ago. But oh, yeah. But But But prior to that, were you on a pump prior to menopause? Know what your basil your total daily basil was before?

Pam 27:13
Oh, yeah, it was so much higher. It was like all day long was a whole bunch of insulin like you know, 20 Oh, oh, point 30. That hour. And then oh point 50. Another hour? You know, it was It was

Scott Benner 27:27
wild. So if you're if you were prior to this, like a half a unit an hour, and now you're not even you're not even a unit? Yeah, you're so low, so much lower. So but do you think that's is that the change is the loss of the hormone fluctuations? That changed?

Pam 27:44
Oh, no, it's the it's the the Riley Link has changed my life.

Scott Benner 27:52
I'm sorry. So you're using loop right with?

Pam 27:54
I'm looping Yeah, changed my life. So I have

Scott Benner 27:58
and so the loop is, is keeping you super steady with a lower Basal rate. But you're making up for the insulin you need at meal. So your your what's your insulin to carb ratio? Do you know?

Pam 28:11
Yeah. 115 grams of carb to one unit of insulin one to

Scott Benner 28:16

15. Okay, so you're one to 15 You have a very low Basal rate. Do you notice the loop giving you extra Basal during the day? Or is it fairly stable?

Pam 28:26
You know, when if I'm under stress, I'll hear it going beep beep you know, I'm going Oh, thank you, you know. And then I found this override, just lately. Boy did that change? Well, that let's see, the override is good. Because I took an improv class lately, just for fun. First time I went there was kind of stressful. And so I put the override on, you know, for a temporary Basal. And it asks you what, what amount of how high you want your blood sugar to go, how low and how high and you fill it in. And then it just during that time that I was at the the first improv class I wasn't I was my blood sugar's were perfect. Instead of me bolusing for stress and giving myself two units of insulin and then have have to, you know, it's like a roller coaster.

Scott Benner 29:24
So you turrible you go to that little, you go to that little icon at the bottom of the app, the heart, you touch that right? And then you roll up to what G like, would you use 130%? Or where did you go to? Do you remember? Well, it's

Pam 29:37
not a percent they they asked you what range you want your blood sugar, right, like, you know, so I put it low. I don't want to tell people because I don't want anyone to get into trouble.

Scott Benner 29:48
You okay, so you just changed your target so that it would be a little more aggressive. Oh, look at you. So you didn't change the strength of the algorithm by rolling up the percentage you just changed your turn. Get to be louder.

Pam 30:01
Yeah, just for that hour or two or Yeah. You know, I was I was on stage doing this improv and I could hear my little thing going. And I was like, Oh, thank you. It's like a human pancreas, you

Scott Benner 30:13
know, feels good when something's looking out for you, that's for sure. Yeah, you're like,

Pam 30:17
Oh, thank you without putting my Dexcom on the attentive, I always have on the 10 of sound. And you know, God, how embarrassing that would be during an improv.

Scott Benner 30:28
You could just, you could just improv right around the noise I would have. Yeah,

Pam 30:31
yeah. It's Aliens. Aliens have landed.

Scott Benner 30:35
How long have you been using loop?

Pam 30:43
Let's see about three years, three or four years. You said yourself? No, no, no. So I was teaching yoga outdoors at this hot springs, and 10 women or 15 women walk in wearing Omni pods they have bikinis on because it's people go swimming. And I ran up to them after the class. And I said, I wear an omni pod to and some had pumps with the tubing, you know, and everybody was proud. It was like they were being Bold. Bold was insulin. Right, right. So they said, Don't you know about the Reilly link? I said, No. And they told me and I went ahead and ordered it in my, my husband, my late husband's brother, was a genius, launched a lot of spaceships and T peep, set it up. And then my husband watched. And then every time I had to replace it, my husband would know what to do. When I moved to Kansas City, he was passed on and so I had to hire somebody because I I'm just not a tech person. No, I

Scott Benner 31:47
remember a half an hour ago, when we got on this call, I didn't think you were a tech person.

Pam 31:55
I mean, I think to myself, I can't imagine what anyone listening to this show that's 20 or 30 is thinking because they're just eating whatever they want most people and they don't want to live this crazy life. But to me, it isn't crazy. But it looks crazy. I guess, you know,

Scott Benner 32:12
I don't know about that. Pam. I also think that as you get older, I don't, maybe everybody doesn't feel this way. But some things lose their luster. And for me eating was one of them. Like, I don't know if that makes sense. Like I realized how much eating was around. I guess community, right, and social socialization and then, you know, I, my my mom's birthday was recently my mom turned 80. We had her over, she wanted steak and shrimp and we made all this stuff. And I had I had steak leftover. And for days afterwards, my kids would like, they're like, hey, it's lunchtime. What are we going to have? Well, Dad's gonna eat that steak. And I just be like, yeah, it's good. Like, I don't need it to be. I don't know. Like, I don't need it to be a whole big different thing constantly. Yeah, I don't know if that's a thing that comes with age or not.

Pam 33:04
Maybe Yeah, cuz i i really like my, I mean, I different things sometimes at night, but in the day, it's very similar.

Scott Benner 33:14
You know, I'm taking any supplements or have you over the years.

Pam 33:16
Oh, yeah, I take I take like, you know, everything. Vitamin C, multi. E, flax oil. You know, all that vitamin beta carotene. All that stuff? No

Scott Benner 33:31
kidding. Did you and your husband have kids? No, no. Was that like, because of your age? or diabetes? Or what?

Pam 33:40
No, he had a daughter. And so he felt like it would make her feel bad, you know, that? We would because we're living in Kansas City and she was out in California. So that's what we you know, that's that was a decision. And you know, as a result of that, I've been in a lot of programs with like Big Brothers Big Sisters. Now I am and then a diabetic program with Children's Hospital where you mentored a type one child, so I always have a child in my life. It's I love children. Yeah. It's very important to me.

Scott Benner 34:14
Was it disappointing to you not to have kids or,

Pam 34:16
you know, I don't think at the time I kept thinking, Well, my husband has a daughter, it'd be like our daughter, you know, even though she's out of town. And so that's kind of how I, you know,

Scott Benner 34:28
kind of, Pam, you probably dodged a bullet. If I'm being honest with you. Every day these kids seem to want something you're needed or I don't know. Good. Or they have emotions. You have to tend to or there's a lot Sure yeah, no, that's that's interesting. And I looked at your LinkedIn I've seen you've done a lot of nice things over your life.

Pam 34:50
Thanks. Yeah, good. It's so a few I looked at your your you've done a lot of good writing and

Scott Benner 34:57
you're very tight. You don't be nice to me, Pam. It's okay. We're Talking to true. Oh, it's true. I, I, that's very interesting. I try to come off like just like a big dummy that makes this podcast. Is that working Pam? Or do you think I'm not getting away with it?

Pam 35:11
No, I think you're, I think you're very understanding. I've listened to a lot of them. And I learned I've learned a lot. I kept thinking, what can I learn, right? But, of course, there's always so much to learn. And, you know, for instance, I learned setting your warning sign that you're going to get low, higher than, like, I had it on like, 65. Well, by that time, that's crazy, isn't it? So even though I do have a signal that says you're starting to go low, so anyway, I've changed that. I've learned I've just learned a lot.

Scott Benner 35:47
Yeah, I appreciate that very much. Okay, so did you know many type ones throughout your life?

Pam 35:57
Yeah, they, they didn't take care of themselves and make this some of them are gone. Now. Let's just say it, you know,

Scott Benner 36:05
how did you end up meeting them originally?

Pam 36:08
Well, I went into one at a diabetic store. My little, the little girl I mentored in the program, she was 12. When I met her, she's 40 Now, but she lives in California. But um, you know, I'm, I know, I know what, you know, I know what's going on with her. And so I guess I don't know.

Scott Benner 36:32
Too many. Yeah, but he's, I was wondering without, like, the digital age, because you're, you're in a really interesting situation. I mean, you lived, like, right over top of the, of the line where the Internet came. And, and you're somehow involved in it now, like, you're, I mean, you're using a do it yourself algorithm to manage your diabetes, you're in my Facebook group, you know, you're you you meet with people, socially, you meet with people, like through your businesses and doing yoga and things like that you have a lot of interaction with people. And I just wondered how many of them would have diabetes? And I didn't, I didn't imagine many. But But are you saying that's the of the people you know, you've seen poor health outcomes for them? Well,

Pam 37:21
I have a cousin who started out on pills, you know, as a type two. And then And then his, his wasn't getting regulated. And so they put him on insulin. And he's doing better. I think the little girl that I sponsored, I was hoping that she would have no complications, like me, but she's had some heart stuff, you know, it's just, you can't make anyone do anything. And I never tried to push my eye, you know, push, make her feel like you talk about on your show shaming someone, you know, and I would, I would never do that to her. And but, you know, when children grow up with a parent that maybe doesn't feed them healthy food. They really don't want any healthy food, you know? So it's, I mean, that's not for everyone. But I mean, I noticed that sometimes that how you grow up and I was just lucky my mom lived to 101 and a half. She walked a lot. She ate healthy and you know, so I had a good role model. I was lucky.

Scott Benner 38:31
101

Pam 38:33
and a half.

Scott Benner 38:34
How did she pass? Did she?

Pam 38:36
She choked on something.

Scott Benner 38:38
I must curse Pam. Okay, but really, that's what got her. Hmm, that's crazy. Yeah. She was she was still going.

Pam 38:49
Yeah, it was so funny, though. Last year, so my husband would come over and visit we moved her out to California with with us. And I put her in a little residential home with like four other people. And my mother would look at me and she'd say, who said old man with you?

Scott Benner 39:08
Talking about your husband? Yeah. Well,

Pam 39:11
you know, she started not knowing anybody but me. Right? Because I spend a lot of time with her. So you know, her quality of life wasn't so great the last year or two so that's, you know, it was okay. But

Scott Benner 39:24
that's what good did your father how long did your father live?

Pam 39:29
At six and he had Alzheimer's, so I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And he didn't have exactly you know, he didn't my parents never drank really didn't drink but for smoke, but although my mom did maybe for a few years when I was young, but you know, I think genetics has something to do with

Scott Benner 39:52
I mean, obviously, yeah. What about other autoimmune issues? Do you have any others

Pam 39:58
well, From age 20, well, when I got diagnosed round 24 to age 40, I could not get rid of female fungal infections. I just couldn't they, you know, all the medicine didn't work, right. So when I went back to visit my parents now, you know, I'd had it for all those millions of years. And, you know, it's not fun to die of a chronic infection when you but affects your blood sugar. And I saw a really, I call him brilliant immunologist from India at one of the, you know, hospitals here. And he fixed it for a year with some medicine, but he said, You can't be on this forever. And he said, he was really a holistic person. He was looking at the whole person. He said, Pam, I think you're depressed. I said, Oh, no, no, no, not me. He said, here, I'm gonna give you an antidepressant. I said, No, that's okay. So I took it home. I swallowed it, I felt I felt I just fell asleep. And I just I flushed down the toilet. I thought, this is like crazy medicine for, and I'm not crazy. And anyway, to make a long story short, I did get depressed around the time I moved back to Kansas City, seriously depressed. And I was I got treatment. And in one month, my phagocytes that the immunologist found that were a 2%. They should be 100%. In one month on an antidepressant they were 100%. One month. He was right.

Scott Benner 41:41
What is that measure?

Pam 41:45
Well, phagocytes eat bacteria have something to do with eating bacteria? Your body?

Scott Benner 41:50
Yeah, I'm looking right now. The type of cell within the body. It's called.

Pam 41:53
It's called? pH. A. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:57
Absorbing bacteria and other small cells and particles.

Pam 42:01
Yeah, I mean, I really felt hesitant to even share that I'm on an antidepressant because I don't, I don't tell very many people, you know, except my close friends. I know all the people. You know, people think that you're, you're weak and fragile. And

Scott Benner 42:16
you don't realize generational concept, though, don't you think? Like maybe, maybe because of your age, you think of it that way. But I don't imagine that, that people would think of it that way any longer.

Pam 42:28
I hope not. Because chemical imbalance happens and you know, in our family that was prevalent, and so that's just but you know, it fix my immune system. And all those years, being a mess. And all of a sudden, I wanted to get married. You know, the counselor said to me, have you ever thought of getting married? And I said, Oh, that's a good idea. You think somebody would want to be with me? And he said, Sure. So that's when I met my husband. Yeah. Then we got married. And it is incredible. My My life was so much richer than being a singer. And a musician. I mean, you know, if I had to do it over, I would have had four or five kids. But, you know, kind of late for that.

Scott Benner 43:13
Right? You were later when you met him. I see. I understand now. Hey, yeah, we met. Yeah. You know, who wasn't interested. Jim Nabors?

Pam 43:21
Oh, I don't want to laugh. I'm sorry.

Scott Benner 43:24
I think you and I the only one that understand that statement. So yeah,

Pam 43:27
I know. Well, and I respect everybody. Oh, sure.

Scott Benner 43:31
No, of course. No, no, no, I'm just teasing. But I know. Yeah. But that's really interesting. So because I'm glad you shared that part. Because the story felt a little disjointed, because it didn't make sense to me that you got married at 43. And now it does.

Pam 43:48
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't afraid of getting close to someone, you know, all those years, I would pick unavailable men, and all of a sudden, I had an available man and, you know, really scared, but I could, I was able to handle it and embrace it and feel grateful. And it was just wonderful.

Scott Benner 44:07
That's excellent. So no, thyroid stuff for celiac or anything like that.

Pam 44:12
No, nothing. I have no no complications of you know, from diabeetus. And I'm good. I just nothing else.

Scott Benner 44:20
Wonderful. Any siblings? Yeah,

Pam 44:22
I do. I have a brother. He's eight years older.

Scott Benner 44:27
Does he have any issues?

Pam 44:30
Not No, no, no. diabeetus I think my father had some family members like a little boy that had diabeetus like a one of his nephews had diabetes. So that's what we think. It's that in the family in that way when

Scott Benner 44:47
your father Yeah, your brother has children. Uh huh. They're fine. Nothing there. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Wow. All right. Well, what made you want to come on and do this for 45 Min. Listen to this, I wanted to ask you why you want to come on the podcast?

Pam 45:02
Because I think it's important that people understand that taking good care of yourself is it's it makes life less complicated. You know, it's enough complications just being diagnosed. And then I wanted to make things a little easier for myself. And for me, that made it easier. I respect that not everybody wants to do that. But and I also think being a mentor for a young child is a good thing. And I wish more hospitals have that program. I don't think, you know, I mean, there's one, my endocrinologist has one patient that has is looping. Can you imagine that in Kansas City? One patient?

Scott Benner 45:50
Yeah. I don't want to out somebody, but I think there's a person on the show. I think they're pretty open about that person that's been on the show before? Who, who lives probably very close to you, who's who's who's been very involved with looping in the past. So okay, yeah, no, I know what you're saying, though. It's all these people. You know, the way I always think about it is through the podcasts or the context of the podcast, because, you know, I get enough feedback from listeners, that I am comfortable saying the podcast helps people. And yeah, and yet, I know what my reach is. And while it's, it's, it's really great, it's nowhere near the number of people who could benefit from the information. And so you, you only are ever reaching a small number. So to hear that there's only one other person in your, you know, hospital setting that's even aware of this. I mean, I'm hoping that changes, I'm hoping the the algorithms that are available now from tandem and on the pods and things like that I'm hoping they become more prevalent with people because even without a firm understanding of diabetes, they might achieve much better stability and a one.

Pam 47:04
Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, it really does help tremendously.

Scott Benner 47:09
Do you ever think about, I don't want to be a bummer. But do you ever think about what might happen if you become incapable of thinking about your diabetes the way you are now?

Pam 47:20
Yeah, scares me to death. I mean, I've thought of that. And I thought, oh, my god, how am I going to just you know, my settings? You know, nobody's going to know how to do that. So yeah, unless I remarry, and somebody's smart as my husband was.

Scott Benner 47:37
But are you trolling for 75 year old guys that understand how to use their computer that was going on?

Pam 47:43
60? About six years? Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 47:46
You want to get more of a boy situation?

Pam 47:49
Well, no, you know, I just feel that I don't, the people that I meet that are my age, I don't think I think I need somebody with a little more. You know, I don't know.

Scott Benner 47:59
Yeah, I Yeah, you don't you don't in any way, come off your age. That's for certain, you know, like talking to you, or even like, you know, I can see you online or like looking at photos of you or anything like that. Like, it's you don't feel I mean, that you're 72 was surprising to me.

Pam 48:18
Thanks. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:20
that's no, I mean, it's a big deal like it is because it's not just about dumb luck, right? I mean, sure, genetics are helpful. But you've also put a, you know, you've put a plan in place for eating, and it's working well, for you. You're on top of your diabetes and in a major way. You know, these things are, you know, you're not, I wouldn't imagine you're having these successes by mistake. It seems like you're you're meaningfully trying to accomplish them. And while that doesn't always work for everybody, you're seeing the fruits of your labor here, I think.

Pam 48:53
Yeah, I think exercising every morning for 30 minutes on the treadmill helps tremendously. My Basal rate was so much, so much higher. Before I did that every morning. In order I'll listen to the news or watch TV or something, just some stupid show that, you know, so I don't realize I'm really on the treadmill, but I think that's a made my Basal rates really low.

Scott Benner 49:18
I would imagine I agree to and you do you do it every day, seven days a week? Yep. Yeah, it's the consistency too. Because the truth is, is that the exercise is creating a variable for you. That variable is allowing you to probably use less insulin.

Pam 49:34
That's right. Yeah, that's right. I see. I seen that

Scott Benner 49:38
percent. It's 100%. Right. Did you figure that out on your own? Or did you kind of fall in your mom's footsteps to the walking?

Pam 49:45
Well, I figured it out because I was you know, I used to treadmill maybe several times a week but then I started noticing, especially with the loop in the the Dexcom that I My blood sugar's were really, really good when I started doing it every day, and I thought, boy, that's good. I mean, with a loop, you know, if there's a day where I just think I don't really want to get on, I'll create that temporary override for a few hours, you know, and then maybe I'll ride later in the day, you know, and then I walked my dogs every night for about a half hour to so I mean, and teaching yoga and sure, standing on my head for five minutes in the morning, you know,

Scott Benner 50:29
you're very active. Like, yeah, I'm here. Not for your age, by the way. You're just you're very active.

Pam 50:36
And yeah, nothing, nothing hurts. Luckily, you know, right. So

Scott Benner 50:40
no, I take your point there, because there are plenty of people who might like to be active and are having trouble. They can't Yeah, reasons that are, are not their fault. Wow, that's something so would you I mean, you talked about a five a one C now, was it always that low? Like

Pam 50:56
three? No, no, no, it got better. When I started looping. It was, you know, middle, I think years ago, upper fives, and then they got to the middle fives, and then maybe 5.2 or 5.3. And then after this loop, you know, it just kept getting better and better.

Scott Benner 51:18
Does anyone follow your Dexcom? Like you live alone, right?

Pam 51:23
Yeah. No, somebody should though, because that'd be nice. You know?

Scott Benner 51:28
Yeah. Do you I don't want anything could

Pam 51:32
I don't know who would do that. I mean, my my brother's really busy with flying in and out of town visiting his kids and my sister in law, they are busy. They go overseas, they go on trips, or they're not here that much. So I don't know who and I have some girlfriends, but I would not ask to put them under that kind of stress.

Scott Benner 51:56
I just I mean, I'm I'm just thinking about like, you go to bed every night by yourself. So yeah, you know, it's

Pam 52:04
but my Dexcom setting is on attentive. Have you ever heard that noise? The attentive one,

Scott Benner 52:10
does it go in like that?

Pam 52:12
No, it does. Doo doo doo doo doo doo. Oh, god, it's a killer.

Scott Benner 52:18
So that wakes you up?

Pam 52:20
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But you know, usually is by pretty much no, when I go to bed, I can look on the forecast of my loop. And it's showing that you probably aren't going to have any Lows tonight. You know? Or if it says you are because maybe I took a virtual yoga class on top everything else. It sucks. See 545 Just like an hour and a half. So I will eat something more before I go to bed. You know. So the loop has that advantage where you can actually see your forecast.

Scott Benner 52:58
Yeah, no, I know. It's a it's a big help.

Pam 53:01
It's huge. Yeah, it really is.

Scott Benner 53:07
I don't know what else to ask you. There's so much like you, it feels like you've done a lot and the time has been kind to you. And and I don't know, it's a is there something you'd want people to know that? That I'm not getting from you. I'm so worried. I'm not asking you the right questions, I guess is my is my concern.

Pam 53:32
I don't know. And see. I was just looking at some notes that I made. But I think I've already talked about all the things that I put notes for?

Scott Benner 53:50
Well, well then let me ask you this at your, you know, at your age, how do you find a podcast?

Pam 53:58
There was a Dexcom group on Facebook, I think I'm pretty sure that's where I was. And I said I had diabetes for 50 years, I have no complications. Well, I don't remember if it was like 1000 people or 700 people, but I mean, so many people wrote, how in the world have you done this? And I said I said I told them kind of in a brief few sentences. And one of them said you should you should be on the juicebox show. Really? And that's that's that's, that's that's how I found you. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:31
Do you listen to it?

Pam 54:34
To the juicebox Yeah, well, now I do. Yeah. Okay. I love it.

Scott Benner 54:40
I'm glad. That's excellent. And do you think that do you believe that because you're very you've been very careful through this entire like time we've been talking so far right? You're not giving anybody advice and you're very careful to say this might work for me and not for other people. Like you know, I don't I don't want to say what I do because it might not be right for some What else? But I mean, if you had to encapsulate where your success is coming from, you think it's, it's a mixture genetics, your diet activity like, Well, how do you think of it?

Pam 55:13
No, it isn't. Because when I was in California, I was in my 20s. My doctor wanted to put me on cholesterol medicine because my cholesterol was like, you know, 200 and something. And I said, No, I'm going to just eat more carefully, you know, and that's when I changed. And then right now my cholesterol is 150. And the good and bad are excellent. So maybe genetically if I ate bad I get maybe you know it, wouldn't I plus? Yeah, but I think I think it's exercise. I really do. I think it's the diet. Eating lean protein. You know, I don't eat hamburgers. Meat doesn't read meat doesn't appeal to me. I like chicken and fish and tofu, believe it or not, and

Scott Benner 56:05
and being attentive to your mental well being to say that being attentive to your mental well being was a big boost for you as well.

Pam 56:14
Yeah. Oh, boy. Was it? Yeah. Because you make better decisions when your mind is, you know, in a healthy place.

Scott Benner 56:24
Well, that's really, it's really interesting. Can I ask? Do you date?

Pam 56:30
I'm just starting to Yeah.

Scott Benner 56:32
How long has your husband been gone? I'm sorry,

Pam 56:34
I a year and a half year and a half.

Scott Benner 56:37
Are you getting lonely?

Pam 56:39
Oh, God. I mean, with COVID. You know, all this hit with I thought we thought he had 30 or 40 years he was healthy. And it was genetics. He inherited his father's pancreatic cancer. He did my husband didn't even drink hardly ever. And ate like I did exercise so that we thought his neuro endocrine cancer, they grow slow, and people live with it. 30 or 40 years. But anyway, they told us that the doctor said you've got two weeks to two months. He fell over in the room. They took him to the hospital and he died five days later. I'm sorry. So yeah, so I mean, I loved him so much. He was communicative. He was sensitive. He was he was i He was brilliant. He graduated from CU with two degrees and the top of this, you know, 1% of his class. Somethings. Whom latte you know. So anyway, but I've been in some meetup groups. And because online dating was horrible, scary, and a lot of scammers and, but I, you know, starting to meet some interesting people. So I think I just I've pushed myself out the door to when I don't feel like it to do something. You know, I'm in an improv class. I take art classes. I just tried to do things to meet to meet people. Yeah, make because I moved back and most of my friends moved away. So I met a when I'm in a widow's group, and it's fabulous. I met. I have friends I've making there. So yeah, I mean, I'm really doing better now. I'm glad we didn't talk six months ago, or, you know, a year ago.

Scott Benner 58:32
Questions if that's okay, around this. Sure. First of all, lighthearted. Our boys still boys no matter their age.

Pam 58:41
I don't know. I just I've never I've never been romantically involved since my husband died. So I don't really know.

Scott Benner 58:47
I'm saying, like, as you're meeting people? Do we? I'm trying to figure out if I'm ever going to completely mature. Are they still knuckleheads, even when they're 60 and 65? Or are they still get to your boobs? Like, where does that go?

Pam 59:02
No, I don't think so. You know, I mean, I've tried to find an evolved person, kind of like my husband, you know, that has that creativity and analytic. Someone who's analytical and creative is good because I, I played piano, but I need more analytical. So you know, that balance is good. And, you know, if you meet a man who believes in feminism and respects women, then, you know, I don't think they would do anything inappropriate, really, because they know that you have to start Yeah, you have to start out as friends. And

Scott Benner 59:42
I just yeah, I'm excited to hear that it's possible I'll be completely mature one day. So that's exciting for me, seriously. And so so when your husband passes is is it? Is it difficult to take care of yourself after that, like where do you I like yeah, you know, I'm saying like, what's the process of finding life again?

Pam 1:00:04
No brother with COVID You know, I couldn't even get out because no way that I knew was really getting out and I lost my appetite. I had to eat. It was like, it was like eating force feeding yourself every meal. Nothing tasted good. I ate cauliflower pizza, probably 80% of the time, because that's the only thing that tasted good to me. And of course, it's, you know, I know I know what the saturated I don't eat much saturated fat. So. But yeah, it's just been it was, honestly, it's been it was a nightmare. And I'm glad to be feeling better. But you know, I still, I still cry. And we I have two dogs. One dog when he died wouldn't come to bed for three months. Oh, yeah, they always sleep in bed with us. He would sit by the front door, wait for my husband. So but the other dog didn't even know. I mean, she was oblivious. So you know, they're great. I mean, they they have supported me. They are i i love them. I kiss them 100 times a day. And I read the other day that pumps up your endorphins. So I don't do it for that reason I do it because I love them so much.

Scott Benner 1:01:28
But that's it's, it's, it's nice to have something somebody you know, to.

Pam 1:01:33
I can't. Yeah, I can't imagine coming home to nothing, you know, but it's been really lonely. And I missed the friendship. The most, you know, the my husband, I could talk every night forever. And you know about anything, everything. And we never got, we never get sick of each other. It was like, we knew what we knew what it was like to be with other people. And we knew the difference, and we were grateful. So you know, but I do believe that I I know. It's not easy. But I think eventually I'll find somebody like that.

Scott Benner 1:02:11
It's it's I'm always fascinated when I talk to people who have lived a longer life. And how when you you examine it and look backwards at it, that you've had not just a long life, but sometimes it feels like almost multiple existences within the timeframe that you've been alive. Like, you know, there's the talk, you know, I mean, there's a time where you're a student and a child, then you're in LA, and then you're, you're married. And it's just, it's almost like you've lived three distinct scenario. That's

Pam 1:02:44
true. No, that's true. Yeah. And you don't realize it, because I've always been very independent. But it's almost feels like a half of you, you know, is gone. And you have to claim yourself. And, you know, not that I ever, you know, was a needy person with my husband or any event, I was still independent, but just you know, it's like finding your identity again, with without having your best friend with you.

Scott Benner 1:03:14
Sure. No, that makes complete sense. But I'm very sorry for your loss. That's for certain. And it sounds like he was terrific. And yeah, you know what you're looking for. So hopefully, somebody in that areas is going to pop up at a at an art class or a yoga class.

Pam 1:03:32
Well, I have to tell anyone that's listening. I know, when I told my husband when we were dating that I had diabeetus. He said it took him like a little bit back about I don't know what the word is, you know, it kind of like woof, yeah. And then he said, he realized I was 43 I'd had it since I was 22. I didn't have any complications. And he saw how I ate and how I took care and how I exercise. So he was okay with it. He wasn't scared anymore. And he was so supportive of the way that I you know, he apes very similar to the way I ate not, you know, not exactly but healthy. And so, there are men out there that won't, you won't blow them away. Yeah, if they really are evolved kind of guy. I

Scott Benner 1:04:25
try to tell people that all the time when we're talking about the subject that the right person won't be scared. Right, you know, and you don't want to you don't want to force a situation where somebody really is looking at you as if you have an expiration date on you or something like that.

Pam 1:04:43
Well, yeah, that's I mean, that's exactly it. I mean, I went out from, you know, online dating a few times and it was kind of like, most of the men wanted women way younger that you know, they're they're my age so that they kind of be around to take care of them. That's what's one of them told with me, and, and then you know, any flaw, like having diabetes, some men is a flaw, and they want a perfect woman, and I'm not perfect, and you know, so. But I'm okay with myself. And so you know, you just have to find the right person that looks at you as a whole person, instead of that your diabeetus is going to ruin their, you know, their lives, or you're going to drop dead. You know, a lot of men, I understand them being worried if somebody doesn't take care of themselves. But

Scott Benner 1:05:34
yeah, but yeah, it's funny too, because I can I take the perspective of, you know, if we're going to meet and be together, I'm worried about you needing something and I'm worried about me needing something, I actually had a conversation with a person, I'm gonna see if I can find a way to talk about this. Pretty recently, and they're, you know, my age. And one of the spouses in this very long time marriage was people have been married forever, you know, one of the spouses is starting to have different medical issues, and they're not really like huge things, but they're time consuming things. And the other spouse said to me, I'm getting, I'm getting tired of them being sick. And I, it shocked me because I, gosh, if they've been married 30 years, probably, and, you know, together since they were kids almost. And, and that idea of like, it's not, it's not the person, it's not the spouse that's bothering them. It's almost not even the medical situations that are bothering them. It was that it's taking up so much time and time started feeling finite to the person I was talking to. And you know, if you have an injury or something happens, and by the time you get it fixed, you're taking care of it six months later, and every day you're worried. And the person was like, I want to do things, I want to go somewhere I want to, like, you know, blah, blah, blah, like I have things I want to do. I I was I think I was equally shocked that they set it as I was understanding of what they meant. Yeah, you know,

Pam 1:07:15
well, that's pretty heavy. I mean, I mean, I felt with my husband, it was an honor to take care of him. I mean, I was really wasn't taking care of him. Because, you know, he wasn't. Yeah, I mean, but me, you know, towards the end. Yeah, but a little more, but I, you know, I understand that I just, I'm just, I just like being with with him. And that was more important to me than going to, you know, Tahiti, or you know, Caribbean or, you know, so

Scott Benner 1:07:49
I don't know, I wouldn't be I think I fall on your side of this too. But I have to be honest, it made me think, Oh, my wife's gonna bail on me if I guess.

Pam 1:07:58
Well, yeah, I hope no, I hope not. I think you know, yeah, I mean, I hope not. I mean, look, you've gone through all this with your daughter. And, you know, that's been a lot of work, right?

Scott Benner 1:08:10
Yeah. No, I know. You saying I deserve a little compassion if something goes wrong with me. Yeah,

Pam 1:08:15
I think so. Well, we all need to give ourselves compassion. This is what I'm learning from his deaf that I need to be compassionate. If I just didn't do something that today it's like, it's okay. Pam, you took care of your diabeetus you took care of the dogs, you gave one of them their meds? And that's all you have to do. You know,

Scott Benner 1:08:35
I am I'm of the camp to him that everyday doesn't need to be a Lollapalooza situation. You know,

Pam 1:08:42
it can't be It can't be perfect, you know. So, I think I felt like it was more like that. It's so interesting. I mean, I think before he died, I felt like, you know, every day was so exciting. But, you know, once I lived alone had been living alone. It's been a whole different story. But pushing yourself to be out with people has helped tremendously. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:08
That's what I'm taking away from what you're saying is that is that being around other people is a saving grace for you?

Pam 1:09:15
It is just isolating, even though that's what I want to do, I have to not do that. It's horrible. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:24
Do you? Do you sometimes just, do you ever think well, it's over? I did all the things I'm going to do. Does it ever get to you that way?

Pam 1:09:32
Yeah. I mean, for a long time, I've thought I'm, I'm never going to, you know, be be with anyone again. And you know, I think I know a lot of people who've had bad marriages and when their spouse has died, they don't want to get married again. But people I've in my widows group have told me you know, if you had a good marriage usually do want to meet someone.

Scott Benner 1:09:56
That's your expectation. Hey, yeah,

Pam 1:09:58
but I don't Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:00
Oh, how? How valuable do you find your memories at this point?

Pam 1:10:07
I that's pretty good. You know, sometimes it's not good. I'll think I want to do this, this and this. And I'll forget, like, I saw something on Facebook where this woman said, I won't write it down because I'll remember and then she goes, haha or something. So once when I write things down, you know, because so it really helps. And

Scott Benner 1:10:27
so as your memory tails away as you get older, do ya? Do you have trouble recount like recalling your life? Like, especially since your husband's gone? I'm wondering like, is it helpful to you to think about things that you enjoyed or moments? And are those are those easy to come by? Or harder to come by?

Pam 1:10:48
Yeah, I'm not there yet. I can't. I don't honestly don't even enjoy looking at photos. I can't listen to some voicemails that are still on my phone from him. But I know that one day, I will be able to look at all the beautiful things live that we spent and you know, not be sad. Afraid. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:11
So at the moment, it's painful to experience.

Pam 1:11:15
Yeah, it's hard. You know, everybody says that the first thing they say is, oh, think of the good memories. You know, when you tell them you died? Well just think of all the great times. It's like, well, you, you think of all the great times because that's making me feel like I'm going to throw up right?

Scott Benner 1:11:31
Yeah, yeah. That is what I wanted to understand. So the the memories are, are not as for you, they're not as valuable obviously as as a real situation would be. And at the moment, you're not finding them comforting.

Pam 1:11:45
No, I'm getting much better. You know, it's gotten Yeah, it's gotten much better lately. So you know, it'll, it'll just keep getting better. I think it just time.

Scott Benner 1:11:58
No, I appreciate you sharing all this with me. I really do. Thanks. Yeah, no, it's uh, it's been very, it's been enlightening. You know, it's, it's, this is a week where I talked with you. And earlier in the week, I spoke with a 22 year old girl who was diagnosed while she was in college. And to hear her talk about her life, she only has the perspective not that this is a bad thing. But because of her age. And her situation, her her almost her entire perspective. As of now. It's of what she's doing right now, what happened in the recent past, what she hopes to happen in the very near future, she doesn't have the ability, as, as most people her age wouldn't, to wander ahead by decades. And she has no perspective because she was a child, you know, just prior to this happening. And then to hear you be able to reach back to a time when you were 20 or 30, or 40 or 50 or 60 When you were with this person or lived here live their experience something even to hear that you had an infection that lasted I mean, I'm spitballing here the numbers but some some 15 years, like I tried to put myself in that perspective of living with it for 15 years. And at the same time, it's something that you have not lived with for 32 years. It's right. Yeah, it's really so good. Pal, I'm sorry, I think I cut you off.

Pam 1:13:31
Yeah. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:13:32
I'm sorry. You were gone for a second. I lost the signal.

Pam 1:13:36
Yeah, well, my little sister, you know, I just joined Big Brother, Big sister and I have a little sister and boy has that helped who? Oh, I just love this little girl. She's nine years old. And when I met her she was a and so yeah.

Scott Benner 1:13:53
Ya know, I can imagine that would be valuable. Just to be able to, it's not as much right about directing people as it is. I mean, just kind of leading them more than telling them I imagine like just being there for an example is probably such a big deal. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, Pam, if you don't have anything else, I'm I feel good about this. But I want to make sure that we've covered everything. I think so. Yeah, you're probably like how the hell I didn't think we're gonna talk this long.

Pam 1:14:23
Well, I hope I didn't share too much. You know, I mean, so

Scott Benner 1:14:26
for me or for you. I thought you well.

Pam 1:14:29
Yeah, I just hope your listeners are okay with hearing all the gory details and all the I did good stuff. So

Scott Benner 1:14:37
Pam as as hard as this might be to believe because this is your now and you're living through it right now. I thought you told a beautiful story.

Pam 1:14:45
No, thank you.

Scott Benner 1:14:57
Huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. GE evoke glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at GE Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com Ford slash juice box. I also want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and remind you to go to contour next one.com forward slash juice box to get Ardens blood glucose meter, make Ardens meter your meter at contour next one.com forward slash juice box if you're into helping people, especially people with type one diabetes, I'd like to ask you to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box when you get there, fill out the survey completely. And you've helped somebody, all you need to be is a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, t one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox. Join the registry, complete the survey, help someone with type one diabetes, help yourself perhaps and support the Juicebox Podcast, you will do all of this in the fewer than 10 minutes that it will take to go to that link and complete the survey. The survey is very simple, you will know all the answers to all the questions. It is also HIPAA compliant and completely anonymous, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. To all of the sponsors. And to T one day exchange. When you take the time to click on my links or to type them in a browser. You're telling the sponsors that you came from the Juicebox Podcast. And that is a wonderful way to support the show. Are you looking for a vibrant and intelligent community around diabetes? look no farther than the Facebook page, the private Facebook page for the Juicebox Podcast. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. The group has over 28,000 members. And those members are responsible for between 70 and 110 new posts every day on the Facebook page. Every conceivable conversation around diabetes is happening at Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook, you're gonna see great questions, thoughtful answers, and supportive people. No matter if you're an adult living with type one diabetes, or the caregiver of someone with type one. This group is for you. Doesn't matter if you eat low carb, or high carb or somewhere in between your questions and thoughts are welcome on our Facebook page. I hope you check it out. Last little bit if you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series, or the defining diabetes series or any of the other multitude of series that exists within the podcast, you can find them in a number of ways. They are at juicebox podcast.com. They are at diabetes pro tip.com. And if you belong to the private Facebook group, you can find them listed in the featured tab. Now if you're enjoying the podcast, please consider sharing it with someone else that helps the podcast grow more than anything word of mouth is definitely how the show has become what it is. If you have already shared it with everybody you can think of and you've bought it on the pod or index comm or supported one of the other sponsors. You've done the T one D exchange survey. And now you're looking for another way to give back to the podcast. Super simple. A five star rating and a thoughtful review in whichever audio app you listen in would be amazing. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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