#717 Myriam's Pregnancy Story

Myriam has type 1 diabetes and she made a baby!

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 717 of the Juicebox Podcast 717.

Today's guest is an adult who lives with type one diabetes named Miriam. And she's here today to talk about a number of things, including her pregnancy. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, who are becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, and are from the United States, or are the caregiver of someone with type one, you can go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. spend just a few minutes answering simple questions about type one diabetes. When you do this, you'll be helping people living with type one and supporting the podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. Are you looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series or the other series within the podcast, head to the Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes look in the feature tab. There are lists of all of the series right there to help you get started. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, learn more and get started today@dexcom.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes, there's a great explanation of the in pen at in pen today.com There are links in the show notes of the podcast player you're listening in right now. And links at juicebox podcast.com. To these and all the sponsors.

Myriam 2:09
Well, my name is barium and so I'm living with type one diabetes for over 20 years. And I'm from Canada. I'm in the area of Montreal. And I am interested in sharing a bit of my story and how I've gone through different life stages specifically my little story with giving birth to my daughter.

Scott Benner 2:32
That sounds good. Are you from Canada originally?

Myriam 2:36
Yes. So I grew up mostly in the Quebec area. And I've travelled a bit in and out of Canada, but mostly around Montreal area of my life.

Scott Benner 2:45
Okay, cool. Did we say how old you are? Are we not doing that?

Myriam 2:50
I'm in my 20s. Okay, that's actually not young anymore.

Scott Benner 2:54
You think in your 20s makes you not young anymore?

Myriam 2:58
I passed 25. So why

Scott Benner 3:00
No, no near him? I would I'd murder a stranger to be in my 20s. Again, what do you think? Oh, no. Who did nothing wrong?

Myriam 3:12
I hope not. I mean, every stage is good. And I tried to appreciate every stage. But it does kind of shock you once the years go by faster than you can count.

Scott Benner 3:20
Yeah, no, I know. I understand. And I probably would not actually, like, you know, in my fanciful idea, taking another person's life so I can be younger. I mean, I don't

Myriam 3:28
think it probably wouldn't work. Well, let

Scott Benner 3:30
me just say, you know, let's say we were in a magical situation where this happened. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it. There you go. I think that's as you would hope not that's as honest answers I can give right now. What do you think of that? I've never heard anything in my entire life. But my back and my knee are stiff. And you know, I'm on the back nine already. I know people don't think of it that way. Man. I digress. 14 seconds into your podcast episode. I was saying to someone the other day that I and this is because I'm now my mom is 79. Right. And I'm watching her have like a like a health issue. And I told my wife in a really, I am assuming was a serious moment. And I'm not sure if she thought I was being comical. But I definitely was not. I'm 50 years old. And I told her, I am going to start living like I only have 15 years left to live. And I was like then doesn't matter to me. If I live past the 15 years, I'm going to treat these 15 years as good, actionable, quality time. Like I'm not I'm just going to do that. And because they don't want to get to the point where I'm older. And I'm like, Oh, we finally did it. We saved up money and we retired and I'm already and then suddenly something catastrophic happens and what am I going to do that? My money is not going to save me that I save right. So I

Myriam 4:56
totally get that. I mean, I think we have a tendency to Always want to save up for retirement or save up for later, you know, we'll travel later. But that's kind of my philosophy to is just, you know, enjoy, do the most that you can right now. And it doesn't mean not saving up for the future, but it does mean you know, really living life to the fullest also in the present, because you don't know like, the future is non guaranteed. So you don't know how much time you will have or what you'll be able to do with it, or if you'll be healthy down the road. So yeah, I think it's really important to, to do the best that you can now and really enjoy life,

Scott Benner 5:31
right. And it's not like I didn't understand that all academically. But I don't I just made more sense when suddenly I saw my mom, like, my mom's older, she's not like in the even the prime of her retirement, but she was getting ready to make a move, she was gonna move somewhere, she's gonna travel a little bit, land somewhere else, then all of a sudden, like, none of that is possible. So I'm like, Alright, I am not, I'm not going to have that happen. So I'm going to save like I'm saving, but you know, I'm going to try to make a little more time for myself here at the same time. And this, I think this is interesting. This podcast is as a business on top of, uh, you know, something I just enjoy. And it is as strong as it's ever been right now. Like, I can't just, I can't set it down and say to myself, like, Oh, it'll be here when I get back. So I'm gonna have to do some pretty strategic planning around how I take time off, but I think it's gonna be worth it. So that's what I'm gonna do. That's the plan that has nothing to do with you,

Myriam 6:35
as they say, work is always always going to be there somehow, you know, in some form. And yes, I mean, there, it always seems like we have the perfect opportunity right now. But sometimes we we still need to be able to take time for ourselves and take time off. I am

Scott Benner 6:50
going to try to do that. We'll see if I will see how successful I am. Or if I'm just like, next time this year, I'm talking to someone else sounds like I go. You know, last year I told this lady from Montreal that I never did it. But okay, so how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Myriam 7:08
I was almost two years old.

Scott Benner 7:10
Okay. Wow. That's how old baby? Yeah, that's how old Arden was. Oh, wow. Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Myriam 7:19
No, that I am very grateful for? Because I don't have any complications. And I don't have any other health issues, actually. Great. Well, that's excellent. That's enough.

Scott Benner 7:31
That's enough. Now are you what they call a couple married? Are you with another person?

Myriam 7:37
Yes. Yes. I'm married. Children. Yes. So that's, we have one daughter together.

Scott Benner 7:44
Congratulations. The baby cannot be that old because you're young. And you're calling yourself old. So?

Myriam 7:49
No, no, our babies a year and a half. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:52
Unless I was thinking maybe you know, babies for you were calling or like a teenager already. Because you really did overestimate your own age. I feel like you basically were like, I'm on my way out. Scott. I'm in my 20s. No, no,

Myriam 8:05
I just had because my birthday was not so long ago. So that's why it's

Scott Benner 8:12
stuck in your head a little bit, didn't it? What's it sticks in your head a little like the passage of time it?

Myriam 8:19
Exactly. Yes. Yes.

Scott Benner 8:21
It does have like,

Myriam 8:23
our daughter is young.

Scott Benner 8:28
Congratulations. That's lovely. Any concerns about when you thought to make a family any concerns about diabetes being, you know, with your daughter at some point?

Myriam 8:41
Yes. I mean, it was one of our worries. I mean, I don't think we focused on it a whole lot because of the fact that I was like I was healthy. And I didn't have any complications related to diabetes. And I was eight. As far as like, my doctors were concerned, they were saying that I was doing a very good job managing my diabetes. So we weren't whole overly concerned about it. As far as her diet, developing diabetes, I think it came a bit later when she was born. And all that concern was more of like how my diabetes could affect her during pregnancy. And then doctors made sure to remind us a whole lot of times, about the concerns that might be related to, you know, having carrying a baby while having diabetes.

Scott Benner 9:36
I believe I know the answer to this question, but just so I'm certain Do you live in a part of Canada, where they manage type one like it's 2021 or they manage it like it's 1978?

Myriam 9:49
Well, it's hard to say because I haven't compared it with like other areas, but I would definitely say that it's 1970s More than 2020 As far as is like being updated or up to date on like literature and like the possibilities and all that it's definitely a bit outdated.

Scott Benner 10:09
What about insulin and technology? What kind of insulin are you using?

Myriam 10:13
I'm using humor blog, I've always used humor law will kind of just switch because now it's become a generic. So I had my log, I think it's called now. Okay, so still the same thing. And I want an insulin pump for I've been on now for I guess, about 1314 years.

Scott Benner 10:29
Okay. All right. So you've been pumping for a really long time? Yes. Either just places in Canada that will give you like, regular an MPH and give you a sliding scale and be like, there you go. Good luck.

Myriam 10:42
Yeah, no, no, it's not that bad. I mean, I did have a good opportunity to because I ended up being on the insulin pump program in Quebec. So right when it started out, back in, like the tooth early, mid 2000s.

Scott Benner 10:55
Okay, what kind of pump? Did you get back then?

Myriam 10:58
I was first on the economists

Scott Benner 11:00
book recommended the pigs.

Myriam 11:03
Yes, yeah. I'm not even the thing I think is our

Scott Benner 11:06
before the pay Oh, before that even Wow. Look at you.

Myriam 11:09
And now I got no progress at all the developments of the prompts. Now,

Scott Benner 11:13
how many? How many different ones do you think you've had?

Myriam 11:17
Well, if I, if I really didn't start on the paying, I believe I didn't. So that would be four, because I went to the paying afterwards. And then I switched to Medtronic. And then I switched to tandem. And now I'm currently on tandem.

Scott Benner 11:30
Are you using the control IQ? Yes, I am. How do you find that to be?

Myriam 11:36
Um, you know, when I was pregnant, I was using the Basal IQ control, he was an out in Canada. Yeah. And I thought it was really neat for the low blood sugars, you know, preventing low blood sugars and stuff. Control IQ is interesting. For someone that's always been like super detailed and super like control oriented. As far as, like managing my range of blood sugars, I think it's a little, I have to do a lot of letting go. Because it does keep me a little bit higher than I would like. But the numbers are good as far as like, a one C levels and stuff. So the, my endocrinologist thinks is really great. And I mean, it is great in the sense that I have less hands on work to do. But it does give you give me more like high blood sugars. And I would like

Scott Benner 12:34
how would you describe your eating style? What do you what's in the mix during the week.

Myriam 12:40
So I'm vegetarian. So I do pay attention a lot to what I eat. And I, I tried to do a lot of whole grains and fruits and vegetables and beans and all that. I try to mix it up a bit. I do find that my breakfasts are very, I try to keep it very similar from one day to the other because I get a little bit of the Dawn phenomenon in the morning. So that is a bit of a I tried to keep it as simple as possible in the morning so that I prevent as much as possible the dawn phenomenon. So that's a lot of oatmeal. Very, lots of meals in this home. And then lunch and dinner are more very you didn't I tried to change it up with different grains like quinoa, rice and all that and mix it up with different types of veggies and all that.

Scott Benner 13:30
Okay, so I, I want to I want to delve into this for a second. First thing. This is just a small aside. When you said you're a vegetarian, the thought that ran through my head was oh, wow, they can grow vegetables in Canada. Which I quickly dismissed that thought but it was the first thought I was like, wow, how did they get through the ice to plant the seeds?

Myriam 13:55
I see all year long. In the Great North.

Scott Benner 13:59
I listen, you understand it academically I know that right? But the way it occurred to me,

Myriam 14:05
like I know and I mean, we are talking alright, and in the winter. So it does add to that feeling of like it's icy and cold. But we do get summer. We do have summer. I mean, we plant like in June and we pick like we pick the vegetables and wait, you know, by the end of like September we have to pretty much pick up everything except for like squashes and stuff. I think that's a short season.

Scott Benner 14:34
Yeah. All right. Well, still. It's uh, you said that you've always had kind of like a, you know, a kind of a tight control over everything. So I want to know a little bit about I mean, obviously, if you're diagnosed when you're two, you're not doing anything. When did you start getting involved in your management and when were you completely in charge of it?

Myriam 14:57
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I would say Like, probably conscious, that like conscious involvement or like sharing into like the decisions, what I'm going to eat and all that. I feel like it was pretty young, like around 10 ish that I remember sharing like, Okay, this is what I'm planning to eat so that I could help my parents with the, the insulin decisions and all that. But then I got involved pretty much when I started being on the pump, which was around like 1314 years of age. And that's where I started, like, it started making more sense to me. If I and I was growing up as well, and it was a lot more information, especially because I was on the pump program, which to make it simple was like when the DUC de Quebec government was deciding whether they wanted to cover the cost of the pump for children are not. So it was a first like, free pumps in Quebec, which is what I was on. So that meant a lot of work, because it was like meals, you had to write down everything you had to like, write down student to decide all the basil plants, and all that, yes, all the details for the pump. And so that one meant a lot more work. So I think I kind of got involved, because it was a bit too much for my parents. But it also helped me to get more hands on experience. And then I, I think I became more autonomous probably by the end of adolescence, I think, yeah, like, on the teen years, that I was more on my own. And I was more like, out and about as well. So it kind of required me to be more independent. Yeah, so I think it just kind of came gradually, and just transitioned, as far as also, with the pump, it was easier, less intrusive for me. So that also helped with being more independent as well.

Scott Benner 16:59
So that's interesting. I'm certainly not about to, like, ask you to badmouth your parents, because I don't think that that exists here. But are you saying that you looked up at your pants and you're like, Oh, these two are not gonna get this, like, I'm gonna have to get it? Did you have that like conscious feeling?

Myriam 17:19
Not so much. I mean, I actually kind of looked up to my Mole on my parents, I think it kind of transition because my mom was really in charge of my insulin handling the whole process. I mean, both parents were really hands on. But my, when I was really young, or younger, my mom was more in charge of like, giving me the insulin shots and all that. And then when I switched to the poem, then my dad took on more of a responsibility, my mom kind of backed up a bit, because it was a lot of technology and a lot of details, which my mom was maybe a little less comfortable with. So it kind of transitioned already. I don't remember feeling like they weren't capable, I think it was just more of like, I can communicate like all of my decisions. So that, um, you know, at some point, it kind of seemed like we're done, though, like, sitting down and just re talking about it and all that. And so it just became more simple to just do it myself. And, I mean, it made more sense. So it kind of, I think it was part of my just teen years of wanting to take control also of my diabetes. But I don't remember thinking that they couldn't do it. I mean, I still talk to my to my parents about my, like, how it's going and I still talk about like technology advancements with my dad specifically, because he's always still interested in like, looking up at what's like newest and most cool, which is probably why I'm also I've also graduated, like from one pump to the other at some level because of also his interest in like technology advancements and all that.

Scott Benner 19:04
That's really interesting. So you and your father still talk about diabetes?

Myriam 19:07
Yeah, we do. Even on my mom, it's just not like the technology is not as much of her forte, but especially when my dad I, I forget what was the newest thing, but like when the control IQ came out, I talked to him about it. I was like, Hey, check this out. It's coming in Canada. And now, there's an app that's supposed to come out soon. What of course always comes out in the US first. So we have to be patient. But yeah, so and so I'll chat with him about it. And I'll be like, hey, what do you think, you know, do you think it could, you know, be a plus? Wow, that's right management.

Scott Benner 19:39
Does he seem does it seem like it passed him by already just these advancements, or does he keep up with the idea when you're talking to him about it?

Myriam 19:48
Actually tries to keep up with it? Yeah, and he'll read up on it a bit and you know, find information or posts about like, there are different blogs that talk about diabetes advancements with up. So he'll actually keep up I think he's been, he's really keeping up with it up to now. And he's, he's doing a really good job. And I think it fascinates him to to see, like how much things have improved and have gotten so much better in just a short period of time. And so it kind of makes him happier to, to, to see that I can get on these new technologies and use these new technologies as well.

Scott Benner 20:26
How does it make you feel that he cares about it in a way that that causes him to keep up with something that and honestly, he probably doesn't have to?

Myriam 20:37
It makes me happy. It makes me kind of if it makes me feel supported to, to have that, like input and to know that, you know, he cares, even like you say like he wouldn't necessarily have to now because you know, I'm grown up and I'm not even living at home anymore. And all that. I think yes, it makes me feel like he's part is still like part of my diabetes management team.

Scott Benner 21:01
Yeah. It seems sweet to me. I mean, it really does. I mean, you're still a young mom. So that whole, like, trust me right now your lesson. I don't know your life. But this beginning of it is a lot of just like keeping up. It's a lot of functional stuff, right? Like, feeding baby cleaning, baby, moving baby from this space to this space. Like when you get to the point where you sit back and you start to kind of I don't know, like appreciate the bigger picture stuff, like one day, I think you you you'll, you'll, you'll think back on this and probably make you cry. So it almost made me cry when he told me that he paid attention to it. I was like, Oh, that's really nice. Do you think do you think? Do they don't? Do they follow you? Do they know your blood sugars?

Myriam 21:51
Not so much. I mean, we don't really talk about it anymore. I mean, they know I have a good control. They know I've always been like meticulous about my diabetes, and they're happy about it. I think we're now we talked more about like the outcomes. Then we talk about a blood sugar that was in like, things like going well, I don't have any complications. And they're always grateful for that. But no, they're not like, asking for blood sugars and stuff. And I don't Yeah, I kind of have stopped sharing it, I guess. I don't know, I shared that more like with my husband, because he experiences it like on a day to day basis. So it makes more sense to share that with him.

Scott Benner 22:30
So one last question. I'm gonna get off your parents. It was a weird phrasing. But anyway. Do they have any autoimmune issues?

Myriam 22:43
No, they don't actually. I'm the only one in the family. Okay.

Scott Benner 22:47
All right. How much? Is your husband involved? Like, do you how, what do I want to know? How long have you been together?

Myriam 22:56
So we've been thinking, well, we've known each other for almost 10 years, we've been married for five,

Scott Benner 23:02
okay? And is he like an active participant or just a person who's just aware, tangentially of what's happening.

Myriam 23:10
He's, he has an active part has had like all along. I think it's been, like it's been, he's been more involved, like, actively, before we had our daughter. And it's really nothing against him. It's really just because of, you know, the, the amount of things that we have to do. But he's been involved a lot, I would say he's an emotional support overall, like, above everything else. And as far as the management, he's really gone a lot to also get informed and also understand, he played a major part as far as diabetes management, like in the end of my pregnancy, and during labor and delivery, because that's kind of a time where I zone out. And one of the requirements of like, being able to give birth naturally, or with my pump, without like, being on the insulin drip, was that I would have someone that was able to take over for me. And so then he really learned how the whole system worked and all especially because I switched like to the tableau pump during my pregnancy, which is not a great thing to do. But I still did it so that I could have like the Basal like you and all that. And he learned like the switch and he, he got familiar with it so that he knew like what changes to make and insulin corrections and all that but I really appreciate it because it helped me to have like, the dynamic that I wanted at birth.

Scott Benner 24:46
Right. And that is really why you want to come on the podcast to write is to talk about your pregnancy.

Myriam 24:52
Yes, well, I think it's a major like obviously a major event and I'm happy to talk about like all my journey because it's really a I think it's a special journey and is out itself and but I do think it was kind of a major breakthrough and a major event also through my pregnancy and birth.

Scott Benner 25:18
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just the way you answered the questionnaire to be on the podcast. I thought this is a person who planned her pregnancy really well thought about it a lot ahead of time. This was not like you didn't wake up on a Saturday morning and go hey, you know I think we should get a pregnancy test like this for a while. Right. So did you want to be a mom for a long time?

Myriam 29:40
Yes. So I wouldn't wanted to be a mom. And we wanted to be like parents like I think we talked about it way before we even got married and it was really something that we wanted and we did plan about it. We did talk like we mentioned earlier about how that might play out with me having died It is and one of the goals was kind of have to have the children earlier than later. Also to, you know, to not add two more complications possible, by waiting longer. But we also I was also studying and I was in university, so we wanted to, for me to be able to finish my bachelor's before to have a child just so that things would be organized and then process. And so that was one of our goals. And then yes, we talked about it a lot about just how it would look and what we definitely wanted it to be a part of our, our little family to have children as well.

Scott Benner 30:41
This is interesting. So you're like a super mature person, aren't you?

Myriam 30:46
I don't know. I don't know about that. But I do like to be organized.

Scott Benner 30:49
But I mean, your whole life. Like you have other brothers and sisters. I have one sister. Okay, if we made one of you the super, like, responsible one of the other one lesser, you'd be the responsible one.

Myriam 31:03
I mean, of the two, yes, I am probably the most responsible. I'm not my sister to hear that. I mean, we have both. Very, I think we just grew up being really responsible and like learning responsibilities early on. But I have developed I think this I think diabetes has contributed to my being very, very disciplined and very organized.

Scott Benner 31:27
If I spoke to your sister, would she call you like, type A and uptight? Or would she just say you're responsible?

Myriam 31:35
I don't know. And I mean, I think I'd be more of they're just responsible. Why?

Scott Benner 31:40
Okay. It's fine. I'm not saying you are, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it. So because the reason that that made me think about that, because you're with this guy who obviously you know, you're going to be married to while you're in school, while you're in school, you have this feeling. And so you're younger there. And you're already thinking ahead, like, I want to have a baby, before my body has any chance to if it's going to break down in some way before it does. And like it actually feels to me like you thought I'm gonna put my body under this stress ball. It's young enough to bounce back from it better. Like those are all thoughts you had right? Pretty much. Yeah, I think I'm getting to know you here. All right. Because I don't know, that just seems like a lot of foresight.

Myriam 32:27
I do like to plan it ahead. And I think I want to put like the best chances. And that's really like a fresh thing. I'm gonna translate because I can't remember how to say it in English, but

Scott Benner 32:38
I was sad to get into French. Oh,

Myriam 32:41
my God. No, escape my mind. But like, mythos, makuti like to plan to put like, all the best, or all the best chances on your side. So why wait and like till until you have complications or more difficulties? And, you know, then when you can, you know, you're healthy in the prime of life and that you and you can, you can give the best chance to you and to your child as well.

Scott Benner 33:12
Yeah, I mean, listen, I love the way you're thinking. I'm just amazing. You're thinking that way while you're still in school. I understand when the other kids went to a party. Do you just look at them and think heathens? Like is that?

Myriam 33:29
No, I don't try to judge others. But I do. I made my own choices that I think I was like, I was already married while I was in school, too. So it just didn't. I had other priorities. And that's kind of what I would always say, and I did not party.

Scott Benner 33:45
You were married when you were in university. Yes, yes. You're so interesting. Okay. I also, can I say something? Let me just be honest, that I hate about your generation. You won't make fun of anybody like that even like, oh, that's for sure. Anyway, like, I'm like, did you like I'm clearly making a joke like, Oh, those people went to a party. You're like, oh, he then she's like, Well, I wouldn't want to say that about I really wish you would have had the opportunity to grow up when I was that because people would have like, talk people for no reason whatsoever. It was a ton of fun. And it just doesn't exist in the world.

Myriam 34:22
We can't do that anymore. It's just not part of like how we're trained or allowed to function.

Scott Benner 34:27
Trying to tell you it's fun. So I don't I can't do it either. You guys drugged me right into your into your into your apocalypse or whatever. This is what's happening right now. So okay, so you are way planned ahead and we're going to just obviously assume that this part of your your nature took over when you were planning for so what is the like, for diabetes and pregnancy? What's the what's the first thing you feel like you have to conquer when you realize you're gonna get pregnant?

Myriam 34:59
Ah, Ah, the first thing I think, is just really like understanding like, what part diabetes is gonna play in my pregnancy, like, my pregnancy. You know, like, it's the kind of thing where it's like, oh, I'm super excited, I'm pregnant. And the next thing is, okay, so what is this gonna look like? You know, it's, so it's a little different, I think then, you know, being pregnant when you don't have a health condition, or you don't maybe have specifically diabetes, who are just like, over excited to being pregnant. Period. I think I was super overexcited, and my husband as well. But at the same time, we were kind of like, oh, so what is this, you know, and then we started, we went back to the planning process of like, how it would look. And I mean, it was to the point, like, because I didn't want it to be overwhelming, like, even before I got pregnant, like, when we started talking about, okay, this is, you know, this could be a good time and all that, and we're really open to whatever would happen. But I started, I had already started talking with, like, my endocrinologist, because I knew that based on, like, my readings and all that, that it would be best, you know, you kind of have to have a good a one C level before getting pregnant and so that you have the best opportunities, or the best chances. So I would, I had already started to have that discussion to make sure like, we were already in the green light before, actually. Okay, like concretizing Our plans. So

Scott Benner 36:30
prior to you thinking about, like, concretely saying, We're going to start i By the way, I I feel like your conception was super boring, but that's we'll get to that later, as

Myriam 36:40
it wasn't just because we're talking about this part, as part, but it does. It kind of it kind of is a major part of our life, you know, we want it or not, I mean, sometimes it is frustrating, but unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know. It is a major part of like every thing of every decision.

Scott Benner 37:02
No, no, I think it's really important. That's why I'm happy to dig through it. I just imagine that you rang a bell with the key took your temperature and you're like, ring, it's time get over here. I know. That's not really what happened. I

Myriam 37:15
sound like that. But hopefully it was not like

Scott Benner 37:19
maybe you should ask him maybe be like, Yeah, I didn't feel like I was punching the time clock that day. All right. Alright, I'm here to work. But But seriously, what I want to know is, what was your agency prior to when you thought we're gonna have a baby?

Myriam 37:36
So I don't have the exact number because that's the thing I like I I was already, pretty much what my doctor said was that I was already in the green light. So I didn't have to do like any work. I was like, I was always around the six shows, I think I was like around 6.4 or roughly at the beginning of or before I got pregnant.

Scott Benner 37:58
Was that on control IQ or no Basal IQ?

Myriam 38:01
Neither neither either Medtronic still,

Scott Benner 38:05
yes. Okay. All right. When do you go on the Basal IQ, then?

Myriam 38:09
I actually worked on Basal IQ, like, when I was five or six months pregnant,

Scott Benner 38:15
ma'am, you're baller, you're just most people would not switch their pump in the middle of their pregnancy?

Myriam 38:22
Well, it's not recommended. I mean, I'm not making a statement like for doctors. But one of my issues was that, so I always want to be like in range, right? I've always tried my best to do that. And then when I got pregnant, it, it was more challenging, obviously, because there are all the hormones and especially like, as you progress, like through the second and third trimester, it gets more and more your body fights against you, that's pretty much what I'm gonna say your hormones really. And so it's harder to, like insensibility sensitivity to insulin is really reduced. And so that made it hard for me because I really didn't want to be high. Like I didn't want to have high blood sugars a lot of the time, which meant I was always like getting into a lot of insulin and all that. But the downside was that I was also going into low blood sugars. And so as doctors are always concerned about low blood sugars more than high, my doctor was really concerned about that. And so then she kind of recommended that as well. As far as like, maybe that'll help you. Like lower your level of low blood sugars.

Scott Benner 39:36
I want to make sure we didn't have a misunderstanding through language but what I called you a baller. I think it's amazing. You changed a pump during the break. I wasn't judging.

Myriam 39:45
I understood. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 39:46
was like, because you right away we're like, you went back to like NATO. Nothing here that Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice. I was like, no, no, no. Like, I thought that was amazing. That you were just like, I'm gonna change my pump. Now. I don't care if I'm pregnant or not. I'll figure this out like You're not scared of diabetes at all right?

Myriam 40:02
No, not at all in that, like, I meant that in the sense of like the doctors, like usually say, like, don't do that. But I was kind of like a that's an opportunity. Like, it's if it's time to do it, there's no better time than now to do it. And even if I'm pregnant, because it was going to help me do even better, like during pregnancy. And so because I think it had it just came out like it was just out in Canada. And I was like, Oh, I'm getting my hands on that.

Scott Benner 40:29
No, I like you, you're full of energy. So okay, so you were around a six or so prior? Did you feel any pressure to make it lower before you got pregnant? Or they everybody was? Okay.

Myriam 40:41
Everybody was happy. So I was just like, was like, it's fine. I didn't make more efforts to Lord.

Scott Benner 40:48
Okay. And then, of all the things that you were concerned about, about your diabetes before getting pregnant? Did any of them most of them, some of them come true during pregnancy? Or did different issues pop up that you didn't expect?

Myriam 41:06
I mean, there were nothing really scared me, like, I wasn't that afraid. I think what came up was more of like, the fear, like not it's not necessarily their fault. I mean, it's their job. But like the doctors, and I'm not talking like, I'm specifically on my endocrinologist, but I had to, like, I got on like, a team of endocrinologist for like, managing pregnancy diabetes, or, yeah. And so I think there was a lot of misconceptions. And then it was a lot of generalizations too, because they were managing, like, pregnancy, diabetes, and then I was a type one diabetes was also in that, like, seeing the same doctors. And so there was a lot of challenges more in the sense of, I was, I started being scared, and not because of my like myself, I mean, I was maybe concerned. And that's why I was really working hard. But there was all this fear of like, okay, I'm gonna get, like, high blood pressure, or I'm going to be bedridden, and all that, or I'm going to have to be ducted, which was the main thing that came back a lot was like, You're not going to be able, you're not going to bring this baby to term. And my answer was, on what basis and that was like, my answers throughout pregnancy was on what basis, and there really wasn't any basis as far as like, I was doing fine. Like the whole pregnancy, I was doing fine. But the the idea was, uh, we don't want, like any should occur before we do it. So we just want to do it.

Scott Benner 42:46
Were they planning for the worst all the time? Yes, yeah. Based on you think their expectations from their historical knowledge of other pregnancies? Or just do you think they just play from a scared position? Generally, did you get any feeling for that?

Myriam 43:03
I think that's kind of like their working like model in the sense that it's kind of like the protocol and, you know, risk management and, you know, so they're just always preventing the worst thing from happening. But, I mean, it was a challenge for me, because there was no real issue. And it's like, I, it wasn't all that different for me to manage my diabetes during pregnancy than it was before, except that I just had to make changes like more often. And I'd had to be like, more on top of it, but it wasn't all that different. And so to me, and one of the things was, like, right away having to be in the high risk pregnancy clinic. And to me, it didn't really make sense because I didn't see how I fit in with like, individuals that had like babies with malformations and individuals that had high blood pressure. And our I forget the the actual, specific terms for high blood pressure and pregnancy, but like, all these challenges, and I was like, Okay, I don't really see where I fit in, in that. And yet, that was like, the same mindset was, was present for me. As far as like, Okay, we gotta manage this. Like, we got to be on top of this and and so there wasn't a lot of freedom for just like enjoying my pregnancy, which I thought was like Central to being pregnant was actually enjoying the pregnancy. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:24
preeclampsia. Yes. Is that blood pressure during pregnancy, right? Yes. And, okay. I'm gonna do realize for a second, I'm gonna say something that you're gonna find uncomfortable to answer, I believe, but what do you do for a living? What did you go to school for?

Myriam 44:43
I was studying in psychology, and I'm actually still studying now. I don't have I'm in my PhD now in clinical psychology.

Scott Benner 44:51
You're a thoughtful, intelligent person. Am I wrong? Or am I right?

Myriam 44:55
I would like to think so. I do like to your think your ability

Scott Benner 44:59
like, listen, part of the way I do this is on purpose so that it seems fresh while we're having the whole conversation, because it is like you and I did not speak prior to this. I didn't tell you I was gonna ask you some questions, you're not prepared for this at all. And that usually causes people to pause and formulate their thoughts. And I can feel that when I'm talking to them. But I have like, I have changed direction. I've brought your parents up. I've made it uncomfortable jokes about you having sex with your husband, and the second, my voice stops, you have a clear, concise and thoughtful answer. Raise your IQ in the 140s. What are we talking about here?

Myriam 45:40
I haven't taken the test and future psychologists I'm probably not gonna take it either.

Scott Benner 45:46
I think you should. I think you'd make me feel bad about myself if I knew you're right. What do you think of that? Are you? This is you though, right? I'm talking to you. You're not like putting something on. You're not extra focused. You didn't take like an Adderall for this or something. You're like, this is just who you are.

Myriam 46:07
No, I didn't do anything specific. I mean, I woke up this morning. And I was like, let's do this. Very much how unprepared I was. And I mean, I looked up. I was like, Okay, I'll pull up my book in case he asked questions. And that was pretty much it.

Scott Benner 46:21
I am super impressed with you so far. Just so you know. Thank you. Yeah. Is does your husband aware of how smart you are? Or is he one of the smart people to tell me the truth?

Myriam 46:33
He's also very smart.

Scott Benner 46:36
Okay. All right. Well, listen, tell this kid, I'd like it to invent a way to melt the ground in Canada, so we can have vegetables more throughout the year. I can do? Like bigger because of how big its brain is. Your baby, does your baby have a giant head to hold all the brains? Oh, I'm just gonna

Myriam 46:57
bring up her home. She has a pretty time, right?

Scott Benner 47:03
We squished it in there. I imagine it doesn't even fit in a regular size head. I literally I mean, honestly, it's just, it's, it's evident. It's very, it's just it's so easy to talk to you. Because you know, what you think you know how to articulate it. It's just I'm having a very good time talking to you, which is probably not I probably shouldn't break that wall while we're having the conversation. But I just want to tell you that I'm having a great time. And I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Myriam 47:29
I mean, it's definitely a very, I'm very happy to be talking with you as well. And I'm happy to be sharing and to be having this conversation is really a shared feeling, I think,

Scott Benner 47:39
Oh, I'm glad. Thank you. You didn't even like do the ham fisted thing of going, Oh, Scott. That's why I listened to the podcast because you're so smart. Like you didn't do any of that stuff. You're you're really thoughtful person. You don't even like and you joke around enough in a intelligent way. Even I like I'm gonna tell you right now. I just That's it. I'm sorry. I'm done. I'm I'm gushing over you and I shouldn't be. You're terrific. So thank you. Absolutely. It was my pleasure to say you were okay. So we make the baby. Right, E equals MC pregnant. And then using I'm sure it was a lovely evening. And so where was it an evening, we made Arden in the basement on our way to trick or treating with our son.

Myriam 48:30
And it was really weird because even with all this planning and all this that seems so like, like, plan and organizing. Like, we don't actually know the data. She was me. Okay. We were trying to time nor the place.

Scott Benner 48:44
We're trying for Arden to be born in the summertime. So we had like this late fall like we were trying to get pregnant in the late fall. And my mom was at the house and we were getting ready to go trick or treating with Cole who I mean honestly could have was probably like three years old. My wife says to my mom, hey, can you like take him outside? We'll be out in a minute. I was like, What are we doing? And she's like, come here. Okay. Anyway, it was we don't have

Myriam 49:15
our very fun stories of

Scott Benner 49:16
Yeah, it was hard to get rid of that sofa.

Myriam 49:20
I bet. Memories just

Scott Benner 49:23
sentimental feeling. Yeah. Rushing to make a baby before going out to trick or treat. Anyway, babies here. When's the first time it gets hard? When do the hormones really hit you?

Myriam 49:38
And your hormones as far as like diabetes or as far as like pregnancy hormones just in general?

Scott Benner 49:44
Well, no. When does the blood sugar start getting difficult?

Myriam 49:47
Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, right away actually. Because I, the first trimester I was low, low, like really low all the time. It was very aren't actually because, I don't know, it's like I, I developed like a hypersensitivity to YES to insulin, but not in a sense that I could like control or like I could like just say okay on lower everything it was trying to just like, out like anytime, anywhere and like, just very it was haphazard and it was very challenging to, to know where to position myself. And at the same time I was like, okay, like, if it is gonna get high, you know, it's gonna get hard at some point, it's gonna get hard, right? It's gonna go. And so then I kind of had that trouble. I was like, I can't lower too much. But in the end, I was just really thoughtful about the beginning and I just needed to lower my, my insulin levels. And how long does that lasted for three months, three months.

Scott Benner 50:45
Okay. I wonder if I wonder how that works? Like, like, functionally, I wonder if it's that your sensitivity lessened? Or if there was a lack of something in your body that that used to exist that didn't anymore in that time? Do you mean like, oh, like maybe your need fell? Not your sensitivity heightened? Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it's vice versa? I have no idea. I'm just it's an interesting question. I guess either way, it doesn't matter if you combat it by lowering your, your Basal. It'd be

Myriam 51:17
hard to know. I mean, yeah, I mean, it it is a good argument to because I mean, obviously, you know, the first trimester are a bit more sensitive as well. I was slightly nauseous, too. So I mean, obviously, also, the amount of food and the type of food has changed as well. So there are obviously different factors involved. And I argue it as being sensitive. Anybody? It might be a lot of different things as well, for sure. Yeah. Because I can't actually test it.

Scott Benner 51:47
It doesn't matter. In the end, in the end, you changed your insulin to meet the need, the need was less. But you did think about like, when you turned it down, you thought about like, when's it going to come back? Yeah, that was in your head. Okay. When are you? Was it so much less that it was like managing a different person? Like, was it like, I guess my question is, like, if your Basal was like a unit an hour, did it become point nine an hour to become point five an hour?

Myriam 52:15
It was more like small changes, I would say. Yeah, so a lot more small changes, I think the major thing that changed was probably more of like the insulin to carb ratio. So just like how much insulin you get at meals, but ya know, it didn't see it wasn't all that bad, but it didn't seem like managing an odd an odd version of myself. Okay? Because it was like, unusual. And it didn't, it wasn't like obvious that, like you usually see, okay, like, in the evenings, I'm always high. So now I'm gonna like change my, my basil or carved race. But then this was more unusual. And like, I couldn't really put my finger on it easily. So that was a bit odd. So it didn't feel like it. It was something that I had never really encountered in that way. So it didn't seem odd at first and kind of challenging. And I think that's why it took me a while to just realize what I needed to do as change or like, just realize what I was into.

Scott Benner 53:19
And then the shift comes the second trimester, it goes the other direction. Does it go significantly in the other direction? Or is it more small changes, like you're talking about?

Myriam 53:27
So in the second trimester, I'd say I was pretty much like, I felt like I was back roughly at what I was like pre pregnancy. So I was bringing up my my insulin levels was a little late. But surely like every other week, I think, even every week, sometimes I was but at the beginning, it was more like every other week. And I was just bringing it up slowly but surely, until the third trimester, and I had the third trimester, that's where it started being like, tougher, I would make more changes more often every like other day or a couple of times a week. I was getting like input from, like, diabetes specialist, nurse, and also my endocrinologist. And so that kind of helped me. But I was also doing it by myself and figuring out like what needed to be changed or improved. It wasn't until Yes, I think it was progressive. So I think like the gap between like pre pregnancy or like beginning and end was probably bigger than I felt it. But since it was like gradual, it didn't feel like I didn't get like a big jump in, in blood insulin levels, even at the end of pregnancy. But I did. Yeah, I increased pretty much all the way to well, almost the end and then at the end it kind of plateaued and even lowered a bit.

Scott Benner 54:48
x okay. Yeah. At the end of this, did you breastfeed them?

Myriam 54:53
Yes, I did. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:54
Okay. Did you notice your needs changed during that again?

Myriam 54:58
I'm not Really, I mean, yes or no, it was kind of an odd situation because even like right after birth, they expect your blood sugar's to go. Like to change radically. And in my case, it didn't really. Like it didn't change radically back to pre pregnancy levels. And so I ended up being in a high blood sugar because for a while, like for quite a few hours, because they started to bring back everything down, like put it back to like pre pregnancy levels, when in reality, that wasn't what I needed. And that's what I felt, I felt like I can just hide, like, just leave my blood sugar, like just leave my controls like how they are. And I'll just handle that, like later on when I get low. But yeah, so I, it was progressive, it was progressive. It progressively went back down. But not, again, it didn't drop right after giving birth. I think that's there's a lot of hormones involved in all that. So,

Scott Benner 56:01
ya know, it makes me it makes me feel like, yeah, sure, there's a way we expect this to go. But you still have to stay flexible and make decisions based on what's actually happening. It's not it's not just gonna follow like, you know, a rule book, necessarily.

Myriam 56:18
No, absolutely not. And that's what kind of frustrates me with, like, protocols. And I know there's a reason for them. And I know there's a use for them. But it kind of is what's frustrates me because like, I wasn't told, I think once like, I don't remember consciously being told once that like, during, like the, like after birth, your blood sugar's my stay up, it was just like always, Okay, be careful with their family go down, go down, even like during the birth process, because in the real process, the opposite during labor and delivery, your blood sugar's are gonna go up, for sure, you know, but then you're like, I'm sorry, they're gonna go down again, they're gonna go down. And that's like the argument, but there's like, just one sided. And you might get either one. And I got opposites on both ends, because I got high blood sugars during pregnancy and high blood sugar after pregnancy. And like after birth, rather, and it didn't. It wasn't like, in the book, it wasn't textbook. I wasn't a textbook case.

Scott Benner 57:24
How about how about the days after, like, did breastfeeding make you low?

Myriam 57:29
It did a bit, it was hard to like to know because, you know, there's like all the sleep deprivation involved and all that. So that that was that was another story. And managing diabetes right after birth is not any easier. It's worse than during pregnancy, actually, at least for me, it was because then there's all like the sleep and there's like, waking up at weird hours, and then you're hungry, but you don't know what time it is and all that. But yes, sometimes when I was breastfeeding the first few days, I would get low or right. Laughter. But it's like, quickly, like in the few weeks that went after I didn't notice it anymore. It wasn't like major drops. You figured it wasn't? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it didn't seem like it affected me that much. But I kind of adjusted and tried to be careful if it if it wanted to go in that direction. You know,

Scott Benner 58:23
like, just recently in an episode, Jenny described her diabetes as like getting a newborn baby, like having a newborn baby to take care of sudden it's almost like getting diabetes toys, or two babies are gonna look at it.

Myriam 58:35
That's exactly how I felt actually, yeah, after birth, I felt like I had two babies to take care of, because my diabetes was out of whack. And then I had a baby that had no idea how this world function. And so now I was trying to help both. It's crazy, because now even my daughter now sleeps full knows what sometimes I still get woken up like, three, four times a night because of my diabetes. And I'm like, just let me go to sleep. I should keep my baby and my diabetes.

Scott Benner 59:05
diabetes to sleep through the night to can you Ferber eyes? It is that?

Myriam 59:10
Yes, that's what it means. Like, you're off duty just off duty at night. What that

Scott Benner 59:16
that old book from the 60s they would tell you to let it cry. Right. And then there's stuff now there's Ferber eyes. I think that's carburizing. Right. And there's some people who sleep with their with their babies and keep the keep the baby next to the bed and like a little thing and what how did how did you? I mean, this is how did you do that? How did you get your baby to sleep through the night? What's the process you used?

Myriam 59:39
Ah, well, the process was gradual. So we had her like in the room but in our own bed like the first six ish months, I think because like she would wake up like every three, four hours at night. It is. It was just it made more sense. But it was also like the recommendations that we had had from our, from a few like professionals that, okay keep her in the room, but like don't keep her in the bed. And we really made an effort to do that. Because apparently it helps also with the, like, gradually sleeping through the night. And that like six, seven months, like we were like, We were overwhelmed. We're really tired. I remember them. So

Scott Benner 1:00:21
yeah, I know that I remember that feeling of the first time like, like, we put called to bed and he didn't wake up a few hours later. And then a few hours later, he didn't wake up and you're like, Oh my God, is he gonna stay asleep? This is amazing.

Myriam 1:00:34
Yeah, then you can sleep for the whole night because you're worried about the fact that they're asleep.

Scott Benner 1:00:39
But then once you get over to it, you're like, you're so exhausted. By the time it it's usually like that first six months, and you're just so exhausted by the time it's over. I don't it's it's crazy. It really is. And and I didn't have to raise a baby. You know, the first time with diabetes. The second time aren't, too. And so I did get to I mean, in fairness to me, I got to sleep for a couple of years.

Myriam 1:01:05
Well, those that are adults, we yeah, we ration our sleep a bit more.

Scott Benner 1:01:09
I'm I don't know for everybody else, but I can walk through my house in the pitch black dark. I don't need, like, I don't need like, Oh, I know where I'm at, like, I know how to do it. Does anybody else like do that thing where you kind of like, bring your forearm up a little bit to like, touch the wall corners. And like there's one one hand or? Yeah, there's one door in the hallway. Nobody ever closes. I'm always completely aware of that. I reach out with my hand as I approach it to make sure I'm not going to walk into it. And yeah, I use the smoke detector lights as as like mile markers. Yeah, yeah. I wish that wasn't something I knew how to do, by the way. Like, wish I just, I would just go to sleep and never wake up. Arden needed insulin this morning at 530 in the morning. Oh, and I was like her blood sugar just kind of popped up out of nowhere. And I was like, and then you have that thought in your head like, oh, you know, she'll be awake soon. She'll, she'll Bolus. I was like, now I'm gonna do it now. So anyway, yeah, it'll it'll. I don't know. I'm just gonna say it'll get better, but it probably won't. Do you think you're gonna get

Myriam 1:02:21
more? They'll get more independent, you know, as they grew up? It's kind of I mean, my parents don't remember all the pain that they went through. I tried to ask them sometimes, and they don't remember. They're like, Oh, it was fine. We just took it a day at a time. I'm like, Oh, yeah. Are you sure it feels like it would have been a bit rough at some point. But you know, we all forget that at some point, apparently.

Scott Benner 1:02:44
Does it make you does it make you feel good that they don't remember? Or are you looking for somebody to commiserate with?

Myriam 1:02:49
I think it's better than they don't remember it? Because I feel like it probably was hard. I mean, I little part of me would like to know, like how bad it was. But at the same time, I'm like, you know, if they still remember now, it's, it would be like really, really bad. Yeah. So they probably focus on the good moments, which is a good thing. Yes. I'm happy about that.

Scott Benner 1:03:09
Alright, so now based on the rest of your conversation, you already have your second third child planned out? Are you just having one? What's the deal?

Myriam 1:03:17
No, well, no, not yet.

Scott Benner 1:03:20
You said, Well, hold on. Don't lie to me. Is it just something you haven't told your husband yet?

Myriam 1:03:27
Oh, no, nothing like that. It's just because I'm back in like, I'm in my PhD now. So I'm trying to get ahead a little bit before, before we have another child and go through this whole process again, because that's the thing too, I'd like to have more time, which was one thing I did have with my first pregnancy of like, during pregnancy, I wasn't all that busy. And so I had a lot of times like exercise and to handle all the appointments and all that. And so I had a lot more freedom. I didn't and so I'd like to have a bit of a structure like that as well. Where I am not like in you know, in school like five days a week and handling a child that's already there. And also a pregnancy I think that will be

Scott Benner 1:04:12
are you hoping to go into practice? Or are you going to teach What's your idea for after?

Myriam 1:04:17
My goal is to go into practice once I finish Yeah, well, there's

Scott Benner 1:04:21
all those people who have PTSD about like polar bear attacks and stuff like that. You have to help right.

Myriam 1:04:29
What about polar bears? I don't have any around here.

Scott Benner 1:04:32
Beavers. What about a beaver?

Myriam 1:04:36
No. That's where I was. I'm concerned I've seen so

Scott Benner 1:04:42
I am strongly, strongly, strongly thinking about calling this episode beaver stone attack. Gotta be careful while you're talking on the podcast.

Myriam 1:04:57
I mean, that would be a very Canadian. Turning on title.

Scott Benner 1:05:01
So you just said that I was like, oh, that's what I'm gonna call this episode. Is there? I know you're like, is there anything about the process that we didn't speak about that you wanted to?

Myriam 1:05:16
I won't, the only thing I can think of is really about like, just the fact that, you know, even with all the pressure of like the hospital, or like the staff and all that, like I was still able to, to make it a, like a natural labor and delivery process. And I didn't have to be like, induced or have the insulin drip and all that. And I think it's a message that doesn't get out all that much. Like, even when I was pregnant, that it was really, really, really hard to find any, like good stories. I don't know, if you've been able to find any, but like, personally, I have not, or just like one from like 20 years ago, like one person who was able to that had type one diabetes, and was able to give her the way they wanted when, like in which was naturally and all that. And I think that's also what really encouraged me of just being able to accomplish that. It was like a major, major accomplishment. And I always kind of like, look, it's possible. And that's what I was also like telling the medical staff and all that, like stop saying that there's only one way to do this. And there's only like one outcome possible. It's like there's, it's possible to have a healthy pregnancy as possible to have help with the labor and delivery process. Even with diabetes, and maybe even because of diabetes, because you you end up being so much more careful about what you eat, what you exercise, like how you exercise and what you do and how you try to reduce your stress and all that. And I think even like healthy moms, maybe don't spend all that time to think about every little action in their pregnancy. And so I think it's even like a benefit to have, ultimately, diabetes if you want to, like see the silver lining in a very difficult situation. Because it helps you to be very, very focused.

Scott Benner 1:07:11
Yeah, I understand. I like how important it is to you for people to hear a good story too. And I've heard a number of stories that are that are positive. And it is definitely doable. It's a lot of work, obviously. How was the baby's birth weight? Was it like a normal birth weight?

Myriam 1:07:29
Yeah, she she was 636 pounds three ounces. She was born at three weeks. So Oh, wow. Put on the fat? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:07:39
it's like a little baby making machine over there. You're just a really nice job. Did it feel like an accomplishment when it was overdue? Did you feel like, wow, this was a lot of effort. And I did it? Or did you not even have time to feel that way?

Myriam 1:07:54
No, I really felt it. I was very, very, I felt accomplished, very proud of the whole process when it was all said and done. Like even in the hospital because it was just it was so unique. And even just the whole process was very unique compared to even regular, like labor and delivery processes. Like even the doctor was just like, I've never seen this before, like, what happened. And even the nurse like was going off shift. And because they were switching before I was getting ready nurses like I'm staying here, I want to see this baby come in this world. And so I think that it kind of was the fulfilment of like all the effort and all the work that was that I put into it. I mean, I would have liked it to be more enjoyable in the sense that to not feel all this pressure or all this fear during pregnancy. And that's probably the only thing that one of the things that I would definitely wish could change. But even with that, it's still

Scott Benner 1:08:58
well, how could How could that change? Should the doctors just be prepared themselves but not worry out loud? So much? Like, I mean, you want to be informed, right? But you don't. You don't want somebody to like, I don't know what I'm like, you don't want somebody to rain on your parade. You just want to understand what could happen and then have somebody tell you, but we're gonna act like that's not gonna happen right now. Like, is that the? I don't know. Like, I'm not sure.

Myriam 1:09:25
Well, you know, like, I think it's maybe just Well, one of the thing that we noticed during pregnancy was just, if doctors took more time to like, get to know the context and get to know the couple. It would make a big difference. And that's at least that's what we experienced like, and we had to do it kind of intentional, very intentionally, actually not just kind of, but like because we were in the like the high risk clinic or Pregnancy Clinic and the gynecologist would see us would come from Five seconds, you know, and look at the scans that the technician had done and say, okay, look, everything's good. Okay, and I'll take this pill, you know, because you're diabetic, and you have to take that. And you should already started. And you know, it was just kind of like this really quick and very protocol are very clear, very directly type of interaction. And then when we were like, Okay, this is not gonna work, like really need them to understand, like, our perspective and what we want. And so then we had, we asked the unconscious, like, come back and actually have a discussion with her, of how we wanted our pregnancy and how maybe my situation was not typical, because I was exercising daily, and like, my numbers were perfect. And, you know, all of that. And so when we gave her like, the whole picture, she was like, oh, like, okay, like, she realized, like, we're not like, we planned this, like you've seen, you know, kind of gave her this picture of like, the context of like, who we are. And like, this is not like, haphazard, it's not like maybe we made on the corner of St. Louis to get something that was fine and organized. And I was around that, too,

Scott Benner 1:11:11
do you think are made on the street corners?

Myriam 1:11:15
On any one, we had that conversation afterwards, she respected our decision, and she respected and even at the end, like when we were at 37 weeks. And she was like, Okay, well make like a more in depth. Scan, not scan there. But forget the word now. It's been too long since I've given birth. But, you know, she, they looked more in detail, and she made sure everything was okay. And she's like, okay, everything's okay. Now, if you were any other woman, I would not I would book an induction now. Like in the next few days, but I know, like you had expressed your decision. And so now like, what, are you still following that decision now? Or are you ready to change? And I was like, no, like, this was our decision, we're still keeping it, there's no indication, no reason for it to change. And so she was like, Okay, well, I respect your decision. You know, it was really like, do you think of the involvement that I think they could have?

Scott Benner 1:12:20
Yeah, it sounds to me, like your experience was that physicians took all of the bad experiences they've had in the past and applied it to you before they even knew who you were, like, like, maybe everyone doesn't do the exercise, and everyone doesn't eat well, and everyone doesn't keep their agency in check and stay on top of their insulin, but you were going to, and they just didn't know that about you. So they planned for what they see most frequently. They just did, but they don't know you well enough, you think to adjust to like, you don't mean like they don't spend enough time with you. Because, listen, I don't want to take credit here. But I talked to you for about 20 minutes. And I was like this lady's really smart. And then well thought out and inconsiderate. And like, I don't know how your doctor couldn't figure that out about your faster. You don't I mean,

Myriam 1:13:11
but they just don't have the time. I think they don't have or they don't take the time. I don't know. I'm not like blaming them for tensions. Yeah. But I think it's just Oh, it's just another woman with another baby. And it's just like, Let's

Scott Benner 1:13:22
go diabetes. And this is going to be a problem. And here's what the problems are going to be. And this is how we take care of the problems and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Instead of seeing that maybe it doesn't have to be like that all the time. I wonder what that experience with you. I would I would hope and wonder if if the the experience your physicians had with you would make them rethink how they talk to other people. Because I think that when you plan for failure, you kind of preordained it a little bit to like you give people permission to fail when you tell them they're going to that makes sense. Yeah, that's

Myriam 1:13:58
kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. You know, you kind of you're you're planning, you're kind of planning for failures, pretty much what ends up happening, you're planning for when the failure will occur, and not if, and I think the difference is huge. But it's not so clear. Like once you're in a high risk clinic and all that, it seems like the if becomes the win, and it's just always planning for, okay, we got to make sure nothing happens. And it's unfortunate because it creates it. So it's kind of like everybody's in the same mold. And everybody's just the same. The same, like a cookie cutter. And the challenge too is and that's kind of brings me back to when you were asking like are we in the 1978 or in the 1970s? And I mean, the challenge do is that even like, like doctors, we say it's like literature, scientific literature and all that and even the science the scientific literature, now has articles that talk about like comparing induction versus no induction Um, for individuals with diabetes and different things like that, and ultimately, you know, the results show more and more that it's not really all that necessary. I mean, there are situations that it is, and it's a procedure that's necessary in in even for individuals who don't have diabetes and certain social circumstances is necessary. But generally, even with individuals with diabetes, it's not like decision by default. And yet, like in the, in practice, it's like, doctors are not so comfortable with that nuance, or they're not necessarily offering that nuance, and it's much more the protocol like this, whatever has been done, continues to be done. Now, even if technology has changed, you know, just, I mean, research is not all that developed with insulin pumps, because it's still fairly new. But nonetheless, like, a lot of research now show, a start, you know, is starting to be produced with different insulin pumps, and like Dexcom, and all these continuous glucose monitoring systems and these these things to make a huge difference, even in pregnancy, you know, just being able to see your blood sugar's like 24/7 all the time, and then having some of the pumps that connect, you know, adjust blood sugar, insulin with that. I mean, that's it has nothing to do with how we're handling diabetes 510 years ago. So it should make a difference. And it does make a difference. But it's not like,

Scott Benner 1:16:36
takes the time for the industry to catch up the doctors really, trick Yeah. And it should be a to me, it should be a an indicator to the pump companies, everybody making an algorithm that you have to have to keep innovating these algorithms to allow for tighter and tighter control. Because people are going to want to wear them when they're pregnant. So and yeah, you don't I mean, you need to, you need to be able to give people more more access to their target ranges.

Myriam 1:17:04
Yes, because there's a thing with the control IQ, for example, now, it's still it's higher, the range is higher than what you would want in pregnancy, specifically, but it still just already makes a difference. And I you know, I think even in companies that make insulin pumps could also even do research like, that involves specifically pregnant women, I know, it probably wouldn't make, like as much of a difference for them. But it could be really interesting for the scientific world and the community to be able to have that information as well and not have to only do like independent studies. Because a lot of times, like don't exclude, like pregnant, like, don't use that during pregnancy, or don't use that. And you're like, okay, but it's just because it's they weren't included in the sample, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's dangerous. Yeah. Right, or that it shouldn't be done. So I think if they would make research or studies just for these individuals that could help as well to, to support like the the advancements and the use also, these insulin pumps and technologies that really make a difference,

Scott Benner 1:18:09
it would also help with the doctors just, you know, what's what I want to say, got the stick out of their butt, and, and just realize that they can use it off label well, and don't be, don't hide behind the fact that it's not, you don't I mean, doctors can give you a pump off label, they can, they can do anything they want off label, to be perfectly honest, they could, you know, there are people who get Metformin for weight loss that has nothing to do with diabetes, for example, like that's an off label use of a medication, doctors can use their, their expertise to make decisions like that, instead of just hiding behind the label and going, Oh, that's not for you. So I can't do it. And it's a little late. But I know you're you're too nice to say anything mean about anybody. Because you're Canadian, and you're from this generation, so you have no ability to say anything.

Myriam 1:19:02
I know then, like, there's definitely a need for progress. And there's definitely a need, you know, for Yeah, go, you know, doing more than what, like the minimum requirements of the job. And I think it's a challenge for the medical field and the like, I think one of the only ways for them to gain like confidence in doing that is also for like spending enough time with the individuals and getting to know, but also getting to know like the technologies that are available and all that so that when you're like I'm an insulin pump, they don't look at you like oh, what's that? There's that too. Also being up to date, especially if you're working with, you know, pregnancy population, it might happen more and more. I mean, there are a lot more type one diabetes and visuals nowadays and a lot more that want to be pregnant and that have children and so that kind of becomes like you kind of have to inform yourself on that as well so that you're, you're up to date on on what works and what doesn't? And what are their legitimate fears? And not just the literature fears? Yeah, no. Yeah, I agree because like one of the big arguments and is also like the size of the baby. So usually like because you get a lot of insulin resistance at the end of the pregnancy, there's a danger also for babies do become really big. So also their reason for like a need for like C section or whatnot. But that's related to like your a one C level. But even like the studies that they use, while they're looking at like a onesies that are different from like the general population. But if you're like using a system like Dexcom, or whatnot, or using like Basal IQ and all these different technologies, or even just an insulin pump, you have so much more control that your agency can stay fine during pregnancy, like my agency was even at the end was like I'm five. So there's one you see that and then you look at, okay, so the danger of getting a big baby is not really in the books anymore. Because while you're handling like your agency is like somewhat nondiabetic. And so there's, it's, you know, it's putting things in perspective and not just going limos, your risk is higher of getting bigger baby, like, okay, but like, compared to what, right

Scott Benner 1:21:20
compared to the past when people didn't have these pumps in the fast track the insulin and the CGM and the knowledge and all that stuff and stop treating 2021 Like it's 1975. That's all. It's not that hard. Jeez. All right. Hey, I have a question. I'll let you go there. Because you have to get back to your life doing whatever it is you do. And assuming it's it's, it's taking care of that baby and writing papers, but that's

Myriam 1:21:46
pretty much off right. And I just got on holiday. So I'm not writing a paper this holiday season.

Scott Benner 1:21:53
My son just wrote his last one the other day, and he seemed pretty thrilled. Yeah. So the podcast, like, why are you on the podcast? Do you listen to it?

Myriam 1:22:04
I did find it. And I specifically found it during the end of my pregnancy. I was really looking like I was saying, like for support and stories and encouragement. And that was pretty much what brought me I really enjoyed the podcast app on my phone. And so I, I looked for a lot of different resources. And that's how I found your podcast, and I thought it was a really, really nice endeavor.

Scott Benner 1:22:27
Thank you. Oh, that's lovely. See, that's a nice answer. I appreciate that very much. It is a nice endeavor. Pete more people should just refer to me as a nice endeavor I would enjoy.

Myriam 1:22:38
It will be your your slogan.

Scott Benner 1:22:40
Well, no, I love that you've that you just wanted to add like a story about a birth that went well like to the, to the pot of stories. So I really appreciate it. I just never know, I just usually, it's funny. I usually just assume that people want to be on the podcast because they listen to it. But a couple of times this year, people have been like, not on your podcasts. I'm like, Well, how did you like, they're gonna listen to it. I just, I had this thing. And I wanted to tell somebody, and this seemed like the place to tell it. And I was like, Oh, wow. Okay, so I just I like to check to see what happens. So that's excellent. I really appreciate it very much. I am done bothering you. If you were done telling me things. Do you have anything else you want to talk about?

Myriam 1:23:23
Well, I was just gonna say, I mean, I encourage you to keep going with your new endeavor. Because I think it's a really, it's a really nice, it's really nice to have that support in that area that's placed where you can just talk and hear other people's stories, too. I think it's kind of hard. Nowadays, especially to hear like I was saying, like positive stories and all that and I'm grateful for, for that. And I'm grateful for the opportunity also to have been able to share that story. I am working on publishing a book about that story, too, in the near future. And I hope that we'll also be able to encourage people to continue in that direction and just taking charge and being able to also share their story and also have a story that's really meaningful to them.

Scott Benner 1:24:08
Will you write that book in Canadian or in English?

Myriam 1:24:15
Do you think it'll be in Canadian English?

Scott Benner 1:24:18
Do you think in English or in French?

Myriam 1:24:21
It's an English it's currently an English?

Scott Benner 1:24:23
No. Do you think in English or in French? Oh,

Myriam 1:24:25
oh, sorry. I actually think in both like when I speak in English, I usually think in English and in French, I think of French

Scott Benner 1:24:32
does that bounce back and forth though? It depends on what you're speaking at the time.

Myriam 1:24:35
Yes, well, you know, I I attribute that to the fact that I learned early on. I learned English from young but yeah, sometimes we lose words especially when you're bilingual or trilingual, you lose like the words you want to use your own remember and like the other language and that goes both ways.

Scott Benner 1:24:52
Are your parents French?

Myriam 1:24:55
Yes, well, my they're both Quebec Wah, but my dad I grew up also bilingual.

Scott Benner 1:25:03
Is anyone from France?

Myriam 1:25:07
Like my mom's family, but like from way, way,

Scott Benner 1:25:10
way, way back? Okay, but your parents from your parents were born in Canada? Yes, yeah. Okay. So I was trying to figure out it was, it was extra nice talking to you today because I have, there's this lovely woman named Isabel who's helping me with my Facebook page. She has type one, and she's Canadian, but French, and so your accent reminds me a little bit of hers. So it made it like extra nice for me today.

Myriam 1:25:38
My pleasure talking with you as well. I'm very grateful for the opportunity.

Scott Benner 1:25:42
No, it was my my absolute pleasure, I appreciate very much that you took the time to do this. It's a really lovely thing for you to do. I think that you're 100% right? That being pregnant with type one seems very scary that it can become even more so when doctors lean into the idea that this isn't going to go well. And then it takes what could be a really like a wonderful memory and and you know the beginning of you building a relationship with a child and turn it into a tumultuous affair instead of it being the thing that it could be in it should be so I really appreciate you doing this. Thank you

Myriam 1:26:20
was a pleasure. I hope it encourages mothers out there future parents as well that it's possible and it's not all doom and gloom, but there are really opportunities and possibilities for it to be a joyful and successful journey as well.

Scott Benner 1:26:36
Yeah, I agree. Okay, hold on one second for me. Okay. Sure.

A huge thanks to Miriam for coming on the show and sharing her story. And a big thanks to today's sponsor in pen from Medtronic, diabetes and Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six head to in pen today.com To get started with the N pen or and Endor Why not both dexcom.com forward slash juice box to get yourself one of those Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring systems. I want to thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast

is usually about here where I tell you about the Facebook group and other stuff. But if I'm being honest, my son wants to have a couch and my daughter needs help with her college stuff. So I gotta go. Don't worry that informations on the end of some other episodes. You should go listen to one of them.

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#716 After Dark: Cate

Cate has type 1 diabetes and this conversation includes everything you've come to expect from an After Dark episode.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 716 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's episode we'll be speaking with Kate she is a type one, and this is an after dark episode. At any point, in the next hour or so you are going to hear Kate and I talk about drugs sex, alcohol, mental health, self harm, suicide attempts, diabetes, and much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes and are a US resident or are the caregiver of someone who is a US resident, I'd love it if you go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey survey should take you fewer than 10 minutes it will ask you really simple questions about type one diabetes and your answers will benefit people living with type one. It also benefits the show when you complete the survey. T one D exchange.org forward slash juicebox.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by touched by type one go to touched by type one.org. Go to their programs tab, click on it and find out about the big event they have coming up in Orlando on August 27. One that I'll be speaking at touched by type one.org. The podcast today is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You'll learn more and be able to get started right now at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox.

Cate 2:18
How did you want me to it's not so much like isn't one of those. Okay, so I've never introduced myself as a diabetic. So this is this is to start off as is very bizarre experience for me. I'll be honest. And so am I just like Hi, I'm Kate and I've been a type one diabetic for I don't even know how long I've been a type one diabetic for a long time. I even know how long I've been the type one diabetic for yet Scott. That's awful.

Scott Benner 2:45
Okay. Why don't we take the last 30 seconds of you rambling and make that your introduction? Perfect. So everybody, this is Kate. All right, well, let's figure it out. Kate, how old are you?

Cate 3:02
It's I'm this is probably the basis of my problems. I'm 36 Turning 37. And I was diagnosed either when I was 11 or 12. And my mom can't even confirm either. Let's make a round number because round numbers are easier.

Scott Benner 3:17
So you're not 1,000% sure how old you are. But now you're you're down to being 36. Right? Yeah, sure. Yeah. What year you were born

Cate 3:26

85. So totally 36. maths, maths is, is very important. That's why the

Scott Benner 3:32
math school the math always holds up. So 36 Now you were diagnosed, either when you were 11 or 12. Yeah. Your mom's not sure either.

Cate 3:44
Oh, god. No, no, not at all. This is how like, like diabetes. It's it's significant. But it's not significant to me if I'm sure that yeah, if that makes any sense. It's

Scott Benner 3:56
all out don't worry Kate by the wall know exactly why everything is what it is and why. I was I was interviewing somebody the other day and like 45 minutes into it. She's like, Oh my god, this is like therapy. And you've just unwoven like, everyone knows me now. And I was like, yeah, yeah, just like, I didn't know this is gonna happen. Like,

Unknown Speaker 4:20
here we are. Nice. Nice, though. That's nice.

Scott Benner 4:23
I find my favorite moments are at the ends of episodes when people are like, I could send you my copay, if that would be. That's okay. That's okay. All right over here. All right. So there's a little noise coming through your microphone, I have to decide if you're touching something or if it's just noisy.

Cate 4:41
And it's, I'm not touching anything either. But I've moved the cord onto the desk as opposed to into my lap. So if I'm moving, if I'm moving,

Scott Benner 4:49
no, it just sounds like I don't know how to put it. That what was that?

Cate 4:56
Oh, that was just me adjusting my head my headset but that's the first time I've done It

Scott Benner 5:00
perfectly still Kate's stare straight ahead. Stare at a point in front of you. No, I'm just kidding. I don't think it was that I think it's I think the headsets a little noisy. I'm not sure why.

Cate 5:11
Probably here let me adjust it so that it's like tighter on my head. Maybe?

Scott Benner 5:16
Yeah, it's fine. Just don't futz with it.

Cate 5:21
Be an officer.

Scott Benner 5:22
You know, I said fights you don't know yet.

Cate 5:25
I mean, I don't know you. Oddly enough. It's not a language I've come across

Scott Benner 5:29
yet. I don't really know much of it either. I just there's a favorite.

Cate 5:33
We've been like I've lived in country while not lived. I've been to countries that are supposed to speak Yiddish, but I don't think I've ever heard it to be fair, but I also don't know what it sounds like. So I don't know if I've ever heard it.

Scott Benner 5:45
These are the words my Jewish friends throw around, in in conversation. So I don't really know many of them either. But here we go. So diagnosed 11 or 12. I don't think it matters either. And you're saying that this is an indication that diabetes was not made, like front and center in your life? But do you mean that the bad way? Or do you mean that no, like a healthy way?

Cate 6:06
I think it could be both like I think when I was I think it could be both the first few years ago that I was diagnosed. It was a thing. My mother, my mother very much made it a thing. But not like the ray, I took the reins. So like they weren't my my personality doesn't allow whatever control freak, so my personnel wouldn't allow them to have any control over it whatsoever. So I basically took the reins on my health, and kind of how I like I was the one that gave the insulin, I was the one that did. Like figured out what I needed to eat and all that jazz, they kind of brought me the tools, but I was a woman went through it. Um, did that work out? So it didn't didn't I think it's hard to say just because there's so much that's happened. And my I wasn't, I was not really I don't want to say normal, but like I had a lot of mental health issues and what have you. So there's a lot of things that happen that could potentially have been because of the diabetes, or it was made worse because of the diabetes, you know, like so it's hard to say that mismanagement, because it definitely was mismanagement with my diabetes, but it probably played a stronger part because my mental health was so deteriorated that I used it as a tool to self harm, really. So I don't I so control probably needed to be had from my parents, but it's really hard to control me. So like it's i I pity them for having to kind of put up with any of that nonsense when I was growing up. Because yeah, it was a fight and a half for them. So it's one of those things it's like, I also think that because it's it's not front and center, it's I have great control now and it's and I really don't I think about it, but it's not what I think about the most it's not it's just something that I live with, and it is what it is. And so I think that that's a healthy, like, I think that that's healthy for me, and I'm not sure that I would have that way of thinking if I hadn't gone through this business of, you know, my teenage years. That makes

Scott Benner 8:40
okay, I'm already enjoying being inside of your mind because you just did a thing that was fascinating. You spoke in 17 circles, but but got through all of your thoughts in a way that I understood and came back to the original question, which I was not expecting. I have to tell you, when we got inside of like the fourth concentric circle, I was like there's no way she remembered what I asked her right. And then at the end you're like so you know, and I was like God damn, she buttoned it up I was like that was both frightening and really impressive. I can gonna enjoy knowing you okay, hold on. So prior to the type one diabetes, were there were there mental health issues then?

Cate 9:23
Yeah, so it started coming about I started realizing it or it started making itself known when I was about 10. So 10 was when I started self harming. I was younger than that when I started to just get into like loads amount of trouble so I started getting in trouble when I was like in grade three however old that is. Started like wrecking things and like lighting things on fire. By the time I was in grade four and five, grade six I had like interactions with police like so it's I've been yeah so like I've

Scott Benner 10:07
been Hold on What did we light on fire? What did we laid on?

Cate 10:09
Oh my gosh. So like we there's been like little bonfires in a park like that where I used to live. That was the one so like the cops pulled over my dad at the time where I used to live before we amalgamated to become like a bigger city. My dad was a firefighter so it's not like I and like two of my uncle's were police officers, my other uncle's like an RCMP. So it's we're my family is well embedded in the public service. So I don't know, I don't know why I thought I could get into trouble without my parents never finding out but you still let like a whole bunch of fires and parks and like behind our schools and like picnic tables and used to damage school property all the time. And all that jazz. Yeah,

Scott Benner 11:07
the people listening. Know you're Canadian now because I do. And I'm RCMP. Yeah. I'm super impressed with myself because my brain actually said Royal Canadian Mounted Police when you get the acronym. And I was like, I've been doing this podcast a long time. I was like, of course, RCMP talking about how much said Yeah, and she's Canadian, which now makes sense to so you're lighting things on fire? Your, your attention seeking? Or are you can you back with any perspective on it?

Cate 11:38
No, I just used to know, it was never attention seeking, um, it was just I genuinely, I don't know, it's I have like, a, like an impulse. Like, I've got a lot of impulse issues. Okay. And I don't think of consequences. So it's I have I fall in line a lot, kind of with, like, at any social personality disorder. So the common things where people have like, it gives them conscious thought of maybe this isn't a good idea. I don't have. And so it's just yeah, sure. We like why not? Why would we not? Why would we not do these things? Right?

Scott Benner 12:29
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, do your parents do anything about it?

Cate 12:35
I feel they've, I feel like there was a summer there where I was grounded the most of it. But I never had issues being by myself. So it was never a punishment, like not being with friends was never a punishment for me, because I am comfortable by myself. And I'm comfortable in a crowd. So

Scott Benner 12:55
they didn't say to a physician or oh, gosh,

Cate 12:59
like Absolutely. It, it's, and when I started getting older, like I started, it's the hospital close to us, the Children's Hospital is called CIO. And so as my mental health continued to deteriorate, I started going into programs via CIO. So like a lot of like group therapy, I have had to go to your management classes as well. Like all these kinds of programs, um, they help now they didn't help at the time. So it's definitely I think, all the programs that have been through, I didn't feel the benefit at the time, but I feel the benefit now is it's something that you go back. Like I said, Because I struggled with impulse issues, and I have a really, I have a really bad temper to the point where I see like, red and black and can absolutely, like blackout and not remember what was going on. Before I get to that, like combustible state, I definitely reflect back on, like, the lessons that I've learned through outreach programs to be able to try and be a I don't I don't want to say normal person, but like a person that can behave in society.

Scott Benner 14:25
You're like, I don't want to shoot all the way for normal, but let's Yeah,

Cate 14:28
like normal is boring. I don't want to do that. And I think that normal is just like a societal construct that isn't actual. True. So I hate using that word, but I think what everyone deems as a normal way to interact with society is kind of the tools that people tried to thrust upon me that I do tend to back on.

Scott Benner 14:53
What can I ask you? Is that a colloquialism like see read or do you? Like, does it not In your vision, or is it just the a way of saying that you're just blindingly angry, and it doesn't nothing matters?

Cate 15:07
It's I don't it's, I know, it's I like I pulses I can't I can't explain it other than it's like the entire you can you kind of get it watching me when they're doing like a point of view, or like, not even a movie, I guess it's like a video game. The first person shooter games where they've been injured and the screen pulses, and that kind of goes red on the on the frame and the image pulses. That's kind of what it's like. And then a lot of it I don't, I genuinely don't remember. And it doesn't last long. It's not like it lasts for like an hour or anything like that. But there's definitely long word comments or long minutes, where you just kind of have no idea what's going on, because you're blindingly angry. And it really is like, you're blindingly angry that you just kind of blackout it about what's going on. And then you kind of come to and you're like, Oh, I just threw like a huge temper tantrum. But it's bananas,

Scott Benner 16:18
can it happen over anything? Or does it have to be a big thing that drives you there?

Cate 16:23
Um, it can't generally it's, it's like a definitely a build up. So again, it's one of those things where I have to go back to like anger management classes. And, you know, they, they at first they kind of push, like, go to your place, or count or deep breaths and stuff like that. And so it happens more in during like, high stress time. So if I'm, if there's a lot going on, and I'm severely stressed, it's a buildup of those stressful moments. So it could be over something really small. But it's like a building effect. It's not like everything is fine and dandy, and then suddenly I snap, it's just it's a lot of progressive moments.

Scott Benner 17:14
Empty tissue box, the 30. A thing that's gone wrong. Could be the tipping point. But exactly, it's just not the empty tissue box on its own. Exactly. Have you ever hurt yourself or somebody else during one of these moments?

Cate 17:27
I'm not somebody else have I wanted to? Absolutely. Myself. Yeah, just like I've punched walls, I've punched like, brick walls, I put my fist through drywall. But generally it I'll like smash something. For the most part, though, I'm quite clear that I need to be left alone. My mother and I used to have a lot of these blowouts. And I used to, like keep telling her that she like she needs to leave me she needs to leave me alone because I will physically harm her if she like she just needs to leave me alone for 10 minutes to calm down. And then we can resume you know, because I it's I feel like I'm going to combust and I don't I don't want to deal with that

Scott Benner 18:16
diagnosis from anybody about that, like one.

Cate 18:19
Like they've tried to diagnose me throughout the years so I've seen like several social workers and psychiatrists and psychologists and doctors and I've been admitted and you know, discharged and stuff like that. So I'm sure that there's quite a few. Diag, Gnostics running around. They're kind of tied up to like a whole bunch of things like it. Yeah, it's it just really do you identify

Scott Benner 18:47
anyway? Um,

Cate 18:52
generally, because the like any social personality disorders probably been pushed around a lot. I don't identify it as it been much like how I the first thing I when I'm introducing myself like when I was telling you like, I've never introduced myself as Hi, I'm Kate and I've been a type one diabetic for X amount of years. It's the same with that is that it's not something that I'm like, Hi, I'm Kate and I'm a mental case a lot of the time it's it's bizarre to me it's I don't find that I define myself because I don't know how to do i That's That's bizarre to me. I don't I I don't allow my personality or the things that have happened to me to defined to define myself and I feel like when I start putting titles to things that whilst it can be empowering, um, I find that it's also something to hide behind what have you so it's I'm very upfront with my mannerisms and how I deal with situations But putting a label to it or being like this is this is what I am is, is bizarre things to come out of my mouth.

Scott Benner 20:08
Okay? No, it does so because I'm like I'm looking at it's, you know, the definition of antisocial personality disorder do not. Do you not associate yourself with with its description, or do you have like, I'll read it for people. Antisocial Personality Disorder is personality disorder characterized by long term pattern of disregard for or violation of the rights of others as well as a difficulty sustaining long term relationships like does that describe? You? Know,

Cate 20:39
I'm really good. I guess I'm married. So like, I'm technically in a long term relationship right now.

Scott Benner 20:46
They qualify marriages. Sorry. Marriages qualify as long term? Yeah, exactly.

Cate 20:52
Um, a lot of the interactions I have is learned behavior. My mother will be the first one to tell you that like I'm not an empathetic character like social, she would definitely be like, yes, actually, that a lot of the symptoms of this is how my daughter is. And I can see some like, there's definitely similarities. It makes sense when going through from start to finish kind of the patterns of how things have happened. Everyone's like, yeah, no, this is yeah, that that's what you are like, this is this is this is your diagnosis. This is what you are. And I'm like yet yeah. Okay. Like that's, I guess, I don't know. Sure. How

Scott Benner 21:39
long have you been married?

Cate 21:41
I've been so we got married in 2019. I've been with Tyler since 24. To 2014 2015. Right, since 2015, the beginning of 2015.

Scott Benner 21:54
Okay, I'm gonna ask a question. This question is only based on my history of talking to other people. Not on anything about you. Does he have any issues?

Cate 22:04
No, no, it's like, the most normal person I've ever been with.

Scott Benner 22:08
Okay. And so yeah, I just think, I don't know. I don't know how normal everybody else was maybe.

Cate 22:14
Like he like he's just like, he's a very like, it's everyone is everyone who meets them. I don't think that they're surprised. But I think there's been a lot of people that are like, ah, that's not this is not who I pictured like he is. So he's South African. I think that's he's South African. So he definitely has been raised differently. But he's an he's like a an accountant and like he's an he's an introvert who is a gamer like he like he's a complete opposite, polar opposite of me in every way, shape and form and he's stable and he doesn't have like trauma and all that guys. So it's the most stable person that I have ever had in my life. It's it's bizarre to experience

Scott Benner 23:12
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Cate 26:12
do it. Genuinely. Yeah. Yeah. Like, absolutely, there's nothing that I would turn down. Like, I will absolutely try everything once. And I'm always like, So Tyler. And he'll say to it's like, the reason he's had the kinds of papers that he's had is mostly because of me, like, so he's seen a lot of the world because of me, because I'm like, Hey, I have an idea. Let's go to like Spain for the weekend. So we used to live abroad so easily, okay. So it would be nothing for me to be like yet let's we're going to Spain for you know, in two days for three. So you know, pack a bag, and we're going, and he'd be like, okay, or we would go on like a 10 country drive like road trip and not book anything until we actually landed in the country. And that is completely normal behavior.

Scott Benner 27:05
So So you drive him away from his comfort and and expand him? Does he drive you towards his normalcy at all?

Cate 27:13
I think so. I think he does. Like I think he's very, he's calming. And so and when I start to spiral, because I don't understand, I don't understand a lot of people's reactions to things. It's, it's, I don't understand them. So he'll have to explain. Like, if I'm having a back and forth with my mother. So we it's a case in point we used to when we were getting married, I my father passed away a few years ago. And so, and my mother was still grieving, or she still is grieving, she'll probably be grieving for the rest of her life. But she was feeling like we were paying more homage to him than her who wish and she was still around, you know. And I didn't feel that way, because she's still around, and she's able to physically, you know, enjoy the moment with me and be there, whereas mine wasn't. And so, logically to me, her feelings just didn't make sense. And so when she would start crying and what have you, I used to have to at the end, I used to have to go to Tyler and be like, is this? Is she being dramatic? Like is she being unreasonable? Or is this a normal behavior? And so he would have to explain, he has to explain interactions with that I have with people so that I can logically understand the way that they're reacting. So that it makes sense. And

Scott Benner 28:50
after experiencing it with her, does it not make sense to you the second and third time?

Cate 28:56
Yeah, it does. So like, it's like I said, a lot of my reactions to people is learned behavior. So generally, like, he can tell. And a lot of people can tell it because I, it's because I'm super awkward if I don't, if I don't respond correctly, or the way that most people respond is most likely because I haven't encountered this situation before. So a lot of my reactions or like, what is deemed as a empathetic response isn't actually any empathy that I feel for them. It's a learned behavior that I have. Had to learn and go back to in order to I don't know, survive.

Scott Benner 29:44
That's the first frightening thing you've said so far. Yeah, the rest of it. All right. Like I've been like, I understand. I understand. You're like I have to pretend to be empathetic.

Cate 29:56
Like, that's, that's crazy. Yeah, but it's genuinely like It's not like it's not like it's I always have to explain to I was like it's I'm not like a Ted Bundy because it's like a Ted Bundy or like a What's the was something Dahmer

Scott Benner 30:12
Jeffrey Dahmer? Go ahead? Yeah,

Cate 30:14
um, it would have it's not I'm not I'm not like I'm like I purposely go out to hurt people or anything like that, but it's I don't have empathy is not a reaction that is something that I feel towards things and people and what have you it's it's not it's something that I have to practice that so

Scott Benner 30:43
yeah do you see that as something you should be doing right?

Cate 30:46
Absolutely. Yeah. So and like, like it's or otherwise if I didn't, then it wouldn't I wouldn't be reflecting, or I wouldn't have like a cache of things to say to people already handy, do you? If you didn't give her, then you wouldn't? You wouldn't put in the time and effort with people who are close to you to be to make them feel like you care, because I genuinely do feel like I do care about people. It's not your it's just yeah, it's just not the first reaction. It's, it's I, I have to I have to work at it is really what it comes down. Does

Scott Benner 31:25
it bother you, personally, that you don't feel that way? No, not at all. It wouldn't. It bothers you because you know that society expects it. And because Tyler has explained it to you. Yeah. All right. Did you have any trauma in your life when you were younger?

Cate 31:43
Not anything to like write a book about or anything like that I grew up, I'm a relatively normal person, I grew up with violence. And other than, like, having large conflict with my dad, but that was just him and I had a lot of the same. We have a lot of the same traits just in personalities. So we're, and we have very big personalities. So it's a, we take up a lot of space in small rooms. So there was a lot of conflict with him. And then there was a lot of conflict with my mother, because my mother hopes to get into things. And it's like a dog at a bone just doesn't leave it be. And so we would have a lot of conflict. And we're both females, and we're both growing up. So I don't think that there are many instances where a daughter and mother don't have conflict, especially in teenage years where like hormones are a mock and all that jazz. But my dad was a workaholic. And so it was my mom who was always around who had to deal with the mental health of her daughter, which was really destructive. So I didn't give any of them a hard time. But an easy time. Sorry. So yeah, so their conflict in that way. But no, my brain just is not wired the way that most brains are in terms of

Scott Benner 33:14
the big ones. The big ones like high stress environment. sudden, violent death, witnessing bodily harm to another person at a young age, domestic abuse, violence physically attacked, assaulted. You didn't live through a natural disaster. You didn't have to run out a hurricane like nothing. No,

Cate 33:34
no. I've been through like have witnessed things since but like nothing, that would be the triggering point for bizarre behavior, I guess.

Scott Benner 33:44
Okay. All right. And your father similarly wired?

Cate 33:49
Absolutely. Yeah. Except he's experienced more trauma than I ever have. But yeah, absolutely similarily

Scott Benner 33:55
variants trauma.

Cate 33:57
He took he was a firefighter like they like and he, at the end of his days, he was definitely he drank a lot more like definitely experienced a lot of PTSD, undiagnosed, he drank a lot more. And he the things I'm sure any, like emergency person would ever experience is traumatic, especially when you're like working in a bigger city than most so.

Scott Benner 34:26
But you you think that he mirrored some of that, like, Did you mirror it off of him? Do you think?

Cate 34:32
No, and I think like, I don't think he had like, I think he was very empathetic. I don't think in the sense that we weren't the same people in terms of how we reacted to and how we reacted to or how I'm trying to think of him and I dealt with situations similarily but not I don't think it'd be cuz we were similarly wired. And I think, because he was super always cool, calm and collected, like it didn't matter what was going on. Like he was always the calm one. So if I injured myself, he'd be like, Yeah, okay, so this is what we're going to do, this is how we're going to deal with it. And like, always be like, boom, boom, boom, that this is this is the plan, this is what we're doing. Whereas my mom would be sterics. Right. And so I that and that's how my brain automatically works that way is that like, okay, so this is the problem. These are the things we need to consider, this is what we're going to be doing. This is how it's got like this is should be the, that's not the outcome. This is Plan B, this is Plan C, like my brain automatically lists that quickly, whenever I'm going through any kind of situation. So whether it's like, whether someone's just broken their arm or gotten to a car accident, or whether I am choosing like a tile for backsplash of a kitchen, you know, like that. It's generally always how my brain works. I don't know if that's how my dad's brain always worked, or if that's just how he was trained. But it's just so we reacted to a lot of things similarly, but I don't know if it was based on personality or just because that's how he was trained.

Scott Benner 36:16
Just the way your mom thinks bother you. Even away from like, personal issues. Like if yes, if she helped you pick the backsplash the way she would talk about it would piss you off. Yes. Yeah.

Cate 36:27
I always Yeah. And my mom, like my mom has more trauma than I do, though. So she's grown up with trauma. And she's very empathetic, like she she feels everyone's emotions. And she feels hers wholeheartedly. So she's like a, she's got this huge heart.

Scott Benner 36:46
Polar Bear. Your mom loved her. Yeah.

Cate 36:51
And she has the end, she has illnesses herself, but it's basically how it's how my mom deals with things drives me absolutely. It drives me batty. Like, absolutely batty. Yes. She does. Yeah, so she has chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. And she has depression as well. So it's definitely something that runs in the family. But the chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia is the big one is so and she height. She's as a as a crutch. Whereas I think that's also a thing with like, so I am a type one diabetic. And I also have Crohn's. And then I've also had, you know, mental illness for the more than majority of my life. And I those have never held me back or kept me back, nor have I ever used them as like an excuse not to do anything. So differ greatly there. And I definitely struggle to see eye to eye with her and most things. Guard.

Scott Benner 37:52
How old were you when your dad passed?

Cate 37:56
He died in 2012. I'm 36. So it's going to be yes, there's gonna be tenure. So I was about 26 when you died. Okay.

Scott Benner 38:05
All right. So hold on. There was a lot. Give me a second. Sorry. No, don't be sorry. I'm just trying to keep it all straight in my head. That's all and know where to go next. Okay, so you took care of your diabetes through your childhood? Yeah. What kind of outcomes did you have for type one? I mean, were you going to appointments or like how Yeah,

Cate 38:29
yeah, so and it's also like I'm because so I'm specifically I'm from Ontario I live in or I grew up in Ottawa. So our health care system obviously is not only are we different from other provinces, but obviously we're vastly different from the US. So definitely was going to appointments because they don't cost me any money. So like that's, that's it's simple. Like it's I never had to put it through insurance, none of that. And anything that did go through insurance because I was on dependent upon my father who was a firefighter. Our insurance was covered 100%. So definitely went to appointments. Twice a year, I think was the standard every six months, got my blood work done, went through like the diabetic programs and stuff like so. That was always the thing. The first year or two I was where I needed to be like my agencies was in like the sixes. And then, as my mental health deteriorated, so did my diabetes. So the worse I got, in one regard. It happened with the other one as well. So I ended up having like I ended up being diagnosed with them. neuropathy by the time I was like, just before I turned 18. So, CIO, is where I went for my diabetes. They were going to keep me Pass I was 18. So because it's a children's hospital, they tend to only keep you till you're 18 before they migrate you over to an adult situation. And so they said they thought just because of how deteriorated I was with my mental health and with my diabetes, that it would be smart to kind of keep me on for a little bit longer just to make the transition a little bit easier. But the second that I was diagnosed with neuropathy, they had to cut ties because they said that they like their children's hospital and they don't see the neuropathy is not something that children get diagnosed with. So

Scott Benner 40:35
the second one sees how long did they last before they got to the point where they were causing that neuropathy? Like when you said your mental health deteriorated, and then your your diabetes care, like followed along with it? What age does that happen at?

Cate 40:48
Um, so probably, things got really bad when I was about 14, so probably like two or three years into being a diabetic. And then they just kept getting worse. So like having my a one sees in like the 12 and 13 does nothing was nothing like that was the norm.

Scott Benner 41:08
You were not giving yourself insulin at all. Were you just doing for long, I

Cate 41:12
think I think it was just like it was just I was MDI. When I was first diagnosed, you basically pulled straws to see if you would be on two needles a day or three. And so I pulled the two needles a day straw, genuinely, that was how you had to do it. You had to pull a straw.

Scott Benner 41:33
You were just like, like, it was random luck at the doctor's office.

Unknown Speaker 41:37
You're saying yeah, oh, yeah. Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 41:39
they only had so much insulin for one thing or the other.

Cate 41:41
I have no idea. I genuinely have no idea. I don't know. I have no idea. The thought process behind it gets very bizarre like how it is now. And how it was then is I feel like probably night and day. it same with the mental health. You know what I mean? Like I think yeah, I think everything is night and day from how it used to be to how it currently is. I hear CIO is has like a great diabetic program. I've never I have never been a part of that. I didn't have a great experience with GAO and their diet program. I have great experience which to and their mental health programs, but not so much that are di BTC

Scott Benner 42:21
you're doing regular and mph or, or Toronto and whatever they call it. Right. Yeah. And and you're and you're just are you even doing that? By the time you're 40 Yeah,

Cate 42:32
yeah, so was like was so was still taking my insulin but wasn't sticking to the food so that when I was diagnosed, we were on like, to starches to fruits to like that. I don't even know what it's called anymore. But it was that kind of meal plan. But definitely ate whatever I want. Whenever I wanted at any point in time. So you were

Scott Benner 42:58
you were eating well past what the

Cate 43:01
insulin was well past. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:04
And then high blood sugars that, I imagine would make your situation worse now with your man.

Cate 43:11
Yeah. Yep, absolutely. But like the thing with like, high blood sugar, it works the same as an alcoholic, right, like, so the more when you become used to it. Your body. Your body gets used to it. So it's yeah, you know,

Scott Benner 43:28
so you don't you don't know. As much you Oh, god, it's

Cate 43:31
so like, even now. So now that I'm in normal range where I'm supposed to be the second I go over, like nine I feel nauseous. Like I don't feel well, like I can physically feel it. Whereas, like, back then if I was at nine, I felt like jittery and weird because it's like the lowest

Scott Benner 43:53
that I owe to you. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

All right. You said as my mental health, like deteriorated, like, what? What deteriorated? Like, where do you go from like setting fires and being combative and like what happened?

Cate 44:10
And being bananas. So as I attempted suicide, I started talking about it. I think I was like 14 And then I attempted suicide when I was either 14 or 15. And so it's how I ended up within CIO in their mental health programs. So I was self harming well before then, and I was self harming well after. And so and I don't think I realized that at a time, but I think I use my diabetes as another form of self harm, right, like so if I'm not obviously taking care of myself. One way, then I'm sure it's not going to be taking care of myself the other way right? Or if I already had plans to end my life. Why would I

Scott Benner 44:57
be why would I get a great Bolus? Yeah. He's just Yeah, yeah, he's

Cate 45:01
like the it's silly. It makes no sense. So, but genuinely, I think my mom, like, bawled her brains out after, like, every birthday I had, since I was like, 21. She doesn't anymore, but like she would a bit of an all she even said it during her the speech when I like at our reception or wedding reception. she just, she didn't obviously go into detail, but she was like, we did not think that she would make it here. Like, I did not think that she would be this age, and marrying this wonderful man, you know. And a lot like all of my doctor said the same thing. Like, in hindsight, obviously, not when I'm going through it. They weren't like, yeah, you're not, you're not going to survive that type of thing. But all of them have said, like, we did not think that you would make it out of your teenage years. Like we didn't think you'd hit 20 and 21. Yeah, so like it like, yeah, I was an absolute mess of a person. And I got like, so I wasn't through to when I was going through school, I was going through the Catholic board, even the Catholic board, and I wasn't showing up for school, like I was not going to school at all. So even the Catholic word, like kindly told my mother, I don't think it's a good idea that she returns here because we don't have the capabilities of being able to support her. Yeah. And then, which is a good thing, because I went to the public board who did and I ended up in like a spec Ed kind, of course, with this woman named Mrs. Innes, who was like a godsend. She's like this Scottish, awesome woman who was like the first woman who was like, No, you are going to survive past this, like you will. You are going to, you know, become old and gray and have babies like you are absolutely going to make it through everything. And she was like the first one to ever say it. Whoever said that?

Scott Benner 47:04
Does it start becoming like a self fulfilling prophecy? At some point? Were you just like, look, this is going wrong. And this is going wrong, like, do you? Do you think you were leaning into it at points as well?

Cate 47:14
Probably. And I think it's hard. Like not to, like it's hard to not be like, Well, I mean, it goes with the same with like decision making as well. Right, like, so if I already have an impulse shoe. And I already think that I'm probably going to die. Like who? Like, yeah, of course, I'm going to do really stupid, because I'm not going to be around long enough to deal with any of the consequences. Right? So absolutely. Probably leaned into it far, far. Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:44
So then what? I mean, did this lead to any? Do you have any personal issues? Like did they become a mountain trying to figure out how to say this, that you become I've heard the word. I know but the word feels wrong. Does it become do you become promiscuous? Oh, god, yeah. Oh, okay.

Cate 48:06
Yeah. Oh, god. Yeah. All right. Yeah. And that used to be like the running joke in the family, which sounds absolutely bananas. But like my aunt, whenever we used to get together, she'd be like, so who's the flavor of the week? And I'd be like, well, several, absolutely became promiscuous. Like, got very, because and like, it's, I think it was a part because you just do. And when you don't feel a whole lot inside or when you're feeling kind of dead. You're kind of looking for something that feels good, right? And you're, you're looking for it often. So again, that comes with the impulse you kind of get a rush Yeah, I'm gonna have this rush because really, it's the only way that I'm feeling anything and yeah, I'm gonna have sex because I know what the gratification afterwards is. And what even if it lasts for only a few moments, at least I've got it and then move on. Right? Yeah, drug addicts feel the same way. It's why they go after their next hit, right? Because they're just looking to just feel something other than what they continuously or like already feel. So it works the same way. Absolutely. Went to drugs as Oh, like, like I said, like anyway, to kind of just step out of my life for five seconds. I was on that train and riding it hard.

Scott Benner 49:19
Well, yeah. Let me ask you a question before we get into that. So actually, let me say this first. I realized while you were talking that I didn't want to say the word because I was afraid people would think that I was asking you just because you're a girl. Oh no. And I would have asked you if you're a guy too. I just like it now because it seems like a date like to me like sex is weird, right? Like if you do it with somebody you really know that seems reasonably as safe as it could possibly be. If you you know have a one night stand once in a while, like I get even that that seems reasonable. But if you start bouncing around to multiple people, yeah, you know, like you're putting yourself potentially in a hole Yeah, situation either constantly or, or maybe even like with your health, you know, so, yeah, okay. Did things ever go badly? Did you ever do you ever? Like, find yourself somewhere thinking like, I gotta get out of here? Or

Cate 50:15
I absolutely and like, and even just in relationships as well, right? So whenever I feel like whenever you don't, if you stop putting yourself first you're going to start getting into relationships where they also don't put you first either. And so it's very easy for you to find yourself in

Scott Benner 50:40
the commodity, somebody else's story. Yeah, yeah,

Cate 50:43
exactly. Like, you're just a thing, right? And you a lot of the time, I thought myself like, yeah, it's I'm, and I, it's bizarre because I used to be like, Well, it's, you know, it's a power. Like, if men can feel this way, why can't I? But I think whilst I still stand by that point, as well, is that I feel like the second it's kind of like probably why you felt uncomfortable asking me because I'm a female, but you would have said the same thing to a male as well. I feel like, because you were saying that what other people would think because other people view women who are promiscuous very different than men do. Right. So I think it was a whole bunch of things. I think it was because I didn't really value myself. But I also think it was kind of like a view to people as well, you know, like, why can't I do this? If, if I am conceptual? Why can't I? Why can't I? Why can they? Why can't I Why am I treated different? Or why am I looking? Why am I looked at different? Why am I called a slut, but this is getting like props because he's just, you know, banged his, you know, three number check, like,

Scott Benner 51:56
I gotta tell you, I've known a couple of those guys. And they seemed as broken as anybody else who would Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean, maybe people see it that way. But if you really know them, I don't know how you would say it that way. Exactly. They're doing the same exact thing as you're describing. They're just, yeah, you know, they're they're doing the entering instead of being entered as the only real difference between what they were chasing you were describing so

Cate 52:21
Exactly, right. Like, generally, I find people who do it, it's a void that they're missing. Like, it's there's a void in their life, and they're just trying to fill it however, temporarily, so. Okay, so yeah,

Scott Benner 52:33
how hard of drugs are we talking about? Like, what? Where does that start? And so

Cate 52:40
marijuana or like any cannabis product was probably how it started and how it ended was with cooking.

Scott Benner 52:49
Okay, that's

Cate 52:50
that. So? Yeah,

Scott Benner 52:52
how long did that part lasts for or is it still going on or?

Cate 52:57
No, so it's, it's not so I've I shouldn't say drug free, although I don't really deem cannabis as anyway. I've haven't had like, I haven't snorted Coke or had coke in any way, shape or form. Since I was about 21, or 22. So that's the last time cannabis products it I still is. It's weird for me, because I definitely view it for myself not in every situation, because I want to make that very clear, because people use that as a weapon. Cannabis definitely was a gateway drug for me into that lifestyles. So it opened doors to different people that I probably wouldn't have met had I not started smoking.

Scott Benner 53:43
So you're not saying that the weed is like, see, I think the way people think of it is that the weeds like not strong enough. So they search for something else. But what you're saying is you get put in situations where you meet people. Yeah. And then those people have stronger drugs, and then the whole vibe just pulls you towards it.

Cate 54:04
Yeah. And I think it's different for other people. And that's what I mean, because it's different. I think people who are against it no matter what, weaponize it, and they don't really understand the differences between it I think, yes, I think cannabis can be used as a gateway drug in the sense that they're looking for something stronger. I also feel like it can or at least it used to not so much here now obviously because we have legalized or at least decriminalized legalized. Yeah, we've legalized cannabis. So it's obviously a different conversation in our society or in our Canadian society now, but back then that used to open doors to people that you wouldn't have had interactions with otherwise, you know, so

Scott Benner 54:53
yeah, I feel like I feel like there's maybe two different people in that scenario where you know, like, there are probably plenty of people who are would use cannabis in some way or another in their life and never move on to anything else. And there are other people who were going to get to the cocaine no matter what. Yeah, yeah. Is that how it seems to you?

Cate 55:10
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I hate when it gets weaponized. Because it's, it's not I think it's more it's the person, not the actual drug of choice. Really.

Scott Benner 55:21
Right. So if a million people are using or using cannabis, and I don't know, 100,000 of them end up using cocaine? The answer isn't one out of 10 people. You know who the answer is that 100% of the people who want or enjoy or need, we'd want to enjoy and need it and 100% of the people who are going to make it tick, okay, make it to cocaine? Not exactly one makes it to the other. Well, I mean, listen, that makes a lot of sense to me. So, alright, but you see, you want to, like a quick ride. 14 1516 to 21. Like, there's a lot happening in there. Do you how do you get off of that train?

Cate 56:03
I actually have no, I actually have no, I don't I don't know what the turning point was. When I was 20 or 21, I was diagnosed with Crohn's. I was on so when I fit Okay, so I was on when to cocaine. By the time I was 18. I was fully into morphine, which is not I don't feel like I ever. I don't feel like I ever really abused morphine but definitely was on a ton of morphine. I was on morphine because of the neuropathy. So loads of pain. So I was like crippled for six months, I was not able to walk or fully function. So I was kaput. Because I was kaput, I wasn't really doing drugs at that point. But I was up to my eyeballs in morphine, I was up to my eyeballs and morphine because literally no other drug would take the edge off. I was on like so much morphine, I still had to go into the hospital to get intravenous of morphine, just so that I could, just so that the edge could be taken off and I could even just sleep for two hours. And then shortly after I was diagnosed with Crohn's, and then was put on steroids and then my diabetes really took like a huge turn because of steroids. So I just started going down this, like this rabbit hole of health issues that the rest of the stuff kind of just started dropping off a bit. I think that and that's really all that it is. Is that

Scott Benner 57:54
where are you live in during this?

Cate 57:56
I'm still at home during all of this not Yeah.

Scott Benner 58:00
I'm sick. The neuropathy has got you so screwed up that you're on. You're on morphine for the pain. And then that sort of like this is weird. That gets you you're so loaded on the morphine you can't do any other stuff in your life. Yeah, yeah, that's an odd way to save but okay. Yeah. I mean, and then at some point do you then like start taking care of your blood sugar's because you have neuropathy now that's pain

Cate 58:27
Yeah, so I am I will it's not as bad as it used to and again because I'm a control freak and because I refuse to be on medication of any kind now it's I deal with pain every day so it's I it's again it's just one of those things that it's there I deal with it I move on I don't really think about it. i It bothers me the most when I'm at my lowest so if I'm exhausted and I'm just having because I still have bad mental health days I will always have mental health issues because it's that's my brain but it doesn't all consuming anymore so but I when I am having a bad mental health day the pain is astronomical like it's it's i I'm most likely in bed or I'm sitting and I'm not moving for the most of the day because I'm in I'm in so much pain. they're few and far between but they definitely happen. But no, it's I live with pain. Every I live with pain every day. It's just not like it used to be I guess,

Scott Benner 59:39
good, better blood sugars and better control with your diabetes help that at all. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, gosh. Yeah,

Cate 59:44
absolutely. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:46
Can I ask you a question that might seem like it's a little out of left field? And if you don't, if you don't have an answer, it's fine. But why is it that most of the people who I speak to who are the most out of control So frequently described themselves as control freaks. I mean, not for nothing. If you're a control freak, you're bad at it. So what is the link? Because there's more in there. If we dig it apart, there's more there like, you. You like the expels all the time. Like, I'm a control freak, I have to be in charge. Like I you said at the beginning, I needed to be in charge of my diabetes, you didn't do a good job of it. But you were in charge of it. I don't it's sort of like is when people tell me like I didn't let diabetes stop me. And I'm like, okay, and then how did that go? Well, my agency was 12.

Cate 1:00:38
Well, I was diabetic, but I definitely didn't let it

Scott Benner 1:00:41
go went to the prom. It didn't stop me. I'm like, Yeah, I think you're misusing that phrase. But it's stopping you just a little slower than you're aware of. And so you're not in control, like everything about you is out of control in this story, but you think of yourself as being very much in control. What is it you're in control of?

Cate 1:01:03
So probably, like growing up? Nothing really like in terms of the circumstances that probably happened around it. Not a whole lot. Did I feel like I was absolutely I think when people

Scott Benner 1:01:19
you want that. You want control. But I think that you

Cate 1:01:21
want. Yeah. And I think I think people use the whole like, well, I didn't let diabetes control me. So I did this. And I think that they're they're doing that because they feel the most out of control. But I think they do that because they're trying to take something back from their life. Like they want to be under the impression that they made this decision and come hell or high water it's going to come through but it's I it's I'm not sure it's I because I was like anytime that my mother even tried to take the control, like control out of my grasp, I would go bananas like I would go sideways about it. And I think it's just me floundering because it's this thing that is scary. And it's, you know, a high potential that it could kill me because I don't have control, right? That I need to grasp for any kind of control in my life as out of control is that seems to everybody else that is looking at it from an outside point. I think that I think that you just kind of grasp for anything at that point, however erroneous it is, or however false it is. Just to kind of, I don't know, pretend like things are normal, or that you had control over it when you really didn't. It's just all a big fabrication. And in the end, you're incredibly

Scott Benner 1:02:52
well thought out, Kate, for somebody who is going through all this stuff. You're a weird mix. Yeah, yeah, I asked you like, by the way, I agreed with everything you just said now. And I asked you because I thought you were gonna have an answer. And I thought it would be more impactful if you said it than if I said it. But it's Listen to me over here. Like, like a puppet master in this conversation. But But seriously, like, people want control because they're out of control. And and so they choose something to feel like everything's not you know, beyond their their whole Yeah, yeah. Right. So and it can be you can see it sometimes. I mean, people change their hair color because yes, they're in control of what color their hair is. Or they they were really like nice nails. Yep. Right Like you've you've we've all like everyone's seen that right? Like somebody's horribly overweight or or ill or something and everything in their life is a disaster. But they're they're incredibly manicured. Their hair is perfect and their nails are perfect and their clothes are on point like the things they can still control they still control but but none of us see it that way. Yeah, like everyone everyone's self describes is like, oh, you know me. I got it all together. Yeah, except for the cocaine I lit

Cate 1:04:17
except for the like the ginormous dumpster fire that is my life. Totally everything is on the up and

Scott Benner 1:04:23
up. You know why they call the cops Mounties because they you know, like, like, yeah, like yeah, all the other stuff. But you're like, but I don't know if you notice my nails. They're beautiful. Yeah, but I look great. But I don't also think that that's specific to you or me or I think everyone has that everybody does

Cate 1:04:41
that. So I have I feel like I just keep being like so also I have this so I have so when I start to spiral I have obsessive compulsive disorder. So when I start to smile when I start to feel the most out of control, because I will be the first one to be like I am I feel out of control. Um But the only reason that I will be the first one to know that is because that's when my obsessive compulsive disorder really starts to show its head. So and that's, it's, it's literally, it only comes about when I start to spiral out. So, and that was that started coming about when I thought I was in the most control of my life. Like in my teenage years, I started doing these small things, and I started doing these small things because it's what I had control over. So it was like what you said what people will dye their hair, you know, they do these small things just to have some sort of resemblance. Like they've got control that up there, like from their very chaotic lives, right? And I used to, you know, sort things by color. Okay, so I have control of this. So I'm going to have control of my life, I can control this, things are going to be okay. And it would be okay. So I'm going to gather all the utensils together, and they have to be like straight and sorted and not out of place. Okay, guys got this under control. Now I've got the colors under control. Okay, I'm starting to feel like I've got control over my life, which was never ever the case. And yeah, it's it's. But to be fair, though, Scott right now I have very good control of my life. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:06:23
one of the really great. Listen, one of the reasons I'm super excited for you to be on is because you actually have conclusion to this story. You know, like, like, You're not about to like, we're not going to finish today. And you're just going to start doing cocaine and no given no. To the neighbor. Like, ya know, like, like, right, yeah, well, I'm gonna have a lot of that out. But I got, you know, I saw someone online the other day who said, said that my show was 30. And I was like, what? That's interesting. And then I realized that I just talked about things that are actually happening with people and that yeah, they think of it as 30 I don't think 30

Cate 1:07:02
No, it's not, which is the way I wish I had found when you had put out like, Hey, I'm looking for some people or whatever. And it was like what is seemingly taboo? And I it's, it's bizarre, I think, I think the world is, is weird in the sense of what they've inherited as being, you know, seen as taboo. And the only reason why it's taboo is because no one talks about it, but everybody goes through it. Like it was weird. We just bought our first house. And no one talks about money. Like no one talks about like, mortgage, no one talks about how much money they make no one talks about what they can and can't afford. And it's so detrimental to everybody, because they don't talk about it. No one knows. Like, no one knows what's normal. Do you know what I mean? Like you grow

Scott Benner 1:07:47
up and like your neighbors got three cars and a house and their kids college. And you don't know that that means that they have to make $300,000 a year.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:57
Genuinely, you're like I don't understand

Scott Benner 1:08:00
themselves into the ground to make

Cate 1:08:01
that money. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's the same with like, mental health. So like, before, when I was growing up, the news don't do it anymore. But the news used to not report about suicide. So if someone even famous, if someone famous, committed suicide, our news wouldn't really report it. Or if they report it, they wouldn't say that it was because of suicide because it was believed that, you know, suicide as taboo, but it's also triggering, it's not actually. And so, but it used to be such a taboo subject and now, whilst people still aren't, you know, it's not like an everyday conversation. I think it's important that people understand that actually, it's, it's quite a lot of people go through it, or at least have ideologies about it, or think about it at least once in their life. And it may not be, you know, like completely detrimental to their health, but it's not weird, either. You know, and so many people just feel like they're the only ones going through this which is so annihilating to them it makes them feel like because they are the only person no one else will understand. When Garin T they've probably have about 15 people in their life who have gone through something similar, but because no one talks about it you're never gonna does it you're never going to know them and then you suffer in silence It's so weird to me it's bizarre it makes it's it's so illogical. I don't I don't understand it. And then people think I'm very brisk and like, brash because I don't give a like if you ask me a question about anything, if I've gone through it or if I know about it, I'm going to tell you about it and people get really uncomfortable about it, but I don't understand like

Scott Benner 1:09:42
why have some theories why I will say I will share some theories with you right in a second but first I want to say I find it incredibly comforting that life ends because then it makes none of this team all that really important. Yeah. And then and it keeps you to like, I mean, that keeps me from feeling like oh god like I screwed it up. It's So far, like, even if I screw up my kids, they'll be dead one day to matter. Yeah, eventually, you know,

Cate 1:10:07
exactly. They may need a little bit of therapy, but genuinely It's okay. Like,

Scott Benner 1:10:11
it's okay that nothing's forever. Yeah. And if nothing's I mean, honestly, Benjamin Franklin figured out a lot of things that we do. Okay. Like, I don't know if there's, um, he wrote a book. I think it's I think he under a pen name. Poor Richard, maybe I know, this seems like a left turn. But hold on a second. Poor Richard's Almanac was a yearly almanac published by Benjamin Franklin, who adopted it, who adopted the pseudonym poor Richard or Richard Saunders for the purpose he wrote under a pseudonym. It's basically just common sense written down. Right, and, and you go back, and I'm sure somebody might have done it before him, you know, etc, etc. But the truth is, is like, we don't think about Benjamin Franklin anymore. Like, and, and he really impacted people, and it's gone. Like, it still exists in the ether. And I'm sure some of the things that he said back then to a small group of people got around, and they started thinking that way, and he probably really impacted things. But day to day, nobody walks around going, huh, thank God for Ben Franklin. You know what I mean? Like, so, point is, is that none of this matters all that much. I mean, in your day to day, if you want things to be perfect, I take your point that it would be important for you not to use cocaine. But But um, but but grand scheme of things. I'm comforted by that like that you could have a 10 year swath of your life be show and, and that doesn't mean that the next 10 years are going to be like that. Exactly. I find a lot, a lot of comfort in that. The other thing that I really enjoyed talking to you, one of the reasons is because if we make a line, and we say that this is societal norms, this line, like what people understand, and everybody on the other side of that line, is not acting like you, and you're acting like you on the wrong side. I'm making quotes on the wrong side of the line. I don't know that we're all not closer to being you than people think. Yeah, you know, so I think without, without some of the things that, you know, people push back on all the time, like society and jobs, and you know, like, Oh, I've got too much responsibility. Like, you didn't have any responsibility and anywhere to go, we'd all just be in like a pile of ants running around on top of each other having sex Yeah, dying, like Yeah, it would just be happening. Crazy. And you're you're just, you just have a little bit of your brain lacks a tiny bit of fine tuning that lets you live on the other side of that line. That's kind of how I see you. I don't know if that makes sense or not. It does. Yeah. I don't see you as like I don't see it was like Don't get me wrong. I don't see was broken or like, you're just not like, you know something that you're no your brains no different than your pancreas. It just almost works and then kind of doesn't at the end. Yeah. It's not in a way that like you're delightful. In I am enjoying talking to you, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. Anyway, I think we're all I

Cate 1:13:15
would expect, you know else.

Scott Benner 1:13:17
Delightful. We're all. We're all about two problems away from being caged. So watch yourself while you're judging.

Cate 1:13:24
Watch. Watch it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like it's, yeah, it's like, I feel the same way. So

Scott Benner 1:13:30
I enjoy this is nice. Are we doing okay for you so far? Okay, fine. You're good with how's it going? Alright, um, well, okay, so we don't exactly know how you got to where you are now. But you did. I'm guessing that the neuropathy puts you in bed, and then took away a lot of the, like, the kind of ancillary things floating around your life probably made it easier for you to focus on stuff, but I don't know.

Cate 1:13:59
I don't. And to be fair, I I don't know. It's I also get like, I genuinely feel like I probably just got bored and was looking for something else at that point. Like, I don't know what switched. I don't know, a lot of the times. I don't know if it's, I, I'm very good at being like this no longer works for me, I need to move on to something else. And which sounds bizarre is being like so you know, drugs don't really work for me anymore. I'm going to need to, you know, look for some other means to get gratification, you know, but I think it is just as simple as that. It's that like, it was the same. So I used it the first time I started smoking cigarettes, so just cigarettes I was 10 So like I said, when things started to really get it was around 10 So I first started smoking cigarettes when I was 10. I quit smoking, I think maybe when I was like 30 So I had been smoking it's still to this point I have been smoking longer in my life than being a nonsmoker. But it wasn't one of those, like, you know, I'm going to quit for health reasons or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to quit for this or it just, it got expensive. And I was like, This no longer does for me what it used to be, so I'm going to stop doing it. And then I stopped doing it. It's the same with, like, with drugs, this no longer suits, the purpose that I initially started out for. I'm no longer going to do that anymore. And then I just stopped doing it. Like something. I probably like it's I. I don't, I don't even know. Like,

Scott Benner 1:15:44
it's is this Tyler just in a corner somewhere smiling right now?

Cate 1:15:47
No, not at all. I'm like that. No, not at all. Um, no, I think like it Tyler probably just replaced, um, sort of, like, the relationships that I had with men. You know, like, up until him I think the the longest relationship I had was maybe like, nine months or a year was the longest relationship I had. And I can't even I have no idea how many people that I like, and that's a relationship. So like, the actual title, boyfriend and girlfriend. I think I've had maybe five, like boyfriends in my life, but I am. I've lost count. Like, I have a very healthy amount of partners who I've been with in my life, you know. But I was getting to the point where like this, this no longer suits my purpose anymore like this. And I'm no longer satisfied with the way that I'm a treating myself as well as like, going from person to person. Like, I don't get anything from that anymore. So Tyler kind of replaced that thing. He became my person. And is that settled with him?

Scott Benner 1:17:06
I don't think that I don't think that's a nice thing to say. I

Cate 1:17:07
think it's not it's not the way that people is. Yeah. Because you're like, Well, I have to you know, settled for something. But I settled with him like, not the me as a person, my, my whirlwind of of how I kind of run through life finally settled when I was when I'm with

Scott Benner 1:17:30
him. Yeah, no, I understand. No one I knew this part of your life began with him.

Cate 1:17:34
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it like started definitely, like, I don't attribute I really don't attribute a whole other than just like that. But like, because I started when I started traveling, I was it was 2009 the first time that I started traveling outside of the continent. And I think that's really what kind of took off how like I started to get a different view of the world and people and how it ticks and works and stuff like that I've finally started not seeing it's I'm definitely still self involved. I have a very healthy ego it's I'm surprised I can fit through doors most days. But I started seeing other people and how they live and it became fascinating to me and it made me not feel as big as I actually am that I'm actually like you said like we're kind of all ants or we would be if you know it's

Scott Benner 1:18:43
your gateway that you got

Cate 1:18:47
Yeah exactly. Yes Two things

Scott Benner 1:18:50
on there on top of it

Cate 1:18:54
Yeah, again perspective of like what else is outside of me and so that definitely started changing and then I moved to the UK back in 2014 and I was still going out partying a lot but I got like a I got my first ducks like desk job and became like an actual professional and became like an actual adult that how people describe adults which was weird. And things just started kind of settling that way and that was where I started like actually taking control of my diabetes I have not had great control for long but like for the last decade I've had really tight and to me I'm I find myself very admirable in terms of how I've completely like 180 My health in terms of my diabetes and my Crohn's. I like it my Crohn's went into remission and I started saying like note doctors when they kept trying to shovel pills down my throat to make you know me different I started becoming more kind of self aware of am I doing this for a purpose? Or am I doing this for a like for small gratification, you know, like, what is the the grand scheme of all of this? And I think that how I started viewing things and how I started making my decisions definitely changed within the last decade. And

Scott Benner 1:20:34
do you have an addicts mind or no?

Cate 1:20:37
I love mine

Scott Benner 1:20:38
addict, are you? Are you addicted to something else right now?

Cate 1:20:41
I know right now, other than like coffee? No, but yes, I do. So it's I tend to stay away from like, I've never been to Vegas, because I feel like that is a dangerous place for me. I don't game because I know it's the same with like, on my phone. I don't have games on my phone, because I know that I can. I know that it's very easy for me to go down that oh, yeah, absolutely. And not a healthy way. Like in a very, very disruptive way.

Scott Benner 1:21:14
exam late at night to connect the dots on some Oh, yeah.

Cate 1:21:17
You know, like the, the Big Bang theory when what's her face becomes like a you know, becomes like a gamer and she goes like three weeks without washing herself like that. That would be that's absolute that would absolutely be me. But yeah, so I definitely have an addict, addicts mine. And I'm also very compulsive like so like, I become obsessive like I'm obsessive, right. So when we when we were looking for the house that we bought, it's I spiraled I spiraled looking for the house that we bought. So like something very normal, I became obsessed with like, to the point where I was probably getting maybe two hours of sleep every night because I was looking at houses or like, I became obsessed with it. And that was what my husband had to deal with, for like a good solid year, or at least nine months from like, start to end. But that's all that I did. And like a girlfriend of mine was looking for house at the same time. So obviously, and we had just found ours, we just put in, like an offer and it was accepted. And so I was feeling I was feeling like like something was missing. Like I didn't know what to do with myself. Because now this this obsessive compulsive thing had been it's over. It's over. What am I going to be doing with my life now? And so she's like, so you know, we're putting our house on the market. And I was like, perfect. Like, and we laugh about it, because I'm like, you know, it's something else I need to obsess over. But genuinely, that was actually the point. I was like, Yes. And then so I then started staying up until like, two or 3am in the morning sending her ads about like, here's a house here's a house. Here's a house. Let me

Scott Benner 1:22:57
point my crazy at your problem.

Cate 1:23:00
Like, please give me a reason. Like, absolutely.

Scott Benner 1:23:04
Yeah. Are you okay? In silence or no?

Cate 1:23:07
I'm, yeah, to the point where it disturbs other people. I have no problem. I have no problem with being by my like I said, I have no problem being by myself in silence. I can sit and stare out the window and not have a thought cross. I'm absolutely fine being still. And I'm absolutely fine. Being in a crowd. And I have it makes people uncomfortable because I've got no problem letting them sit in quiet with me. And generally people need to have some sort of white noise. They they need to feel like fill the silence with something I hate small talk like the second someone starts small talking me I get pissed off. It's like, I hate it. Because the only reason they're doing it is just to fill the silence because they feel uncomfortable. I welcome on comfortable feelings and I it brings me joy to make other people uncomfortable. Kate,

Scott Benner 1:24:02
maybe they just like talking to you. Well, I

Cate 1:24:05
mean, I mean, I am again, I'm delightful, so I get it, but I feel like Yeah, well, that's good. It's good. Otherwise, I feel like it would be kind of weird. I feel not that you'd need to fill the silence, but I feel like you're very engaging. And that was that's what makes a bit good podcasts. So things started going quiet. I feel like I could be potentially awkward. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:24:31
well, you won't let me talk over you. So it doesn't I couldn't if I want to. I've tried a couple of times. I know. Yeah.

Cate 1:24:37
Doesn't it doesn't happen. I know. There's like a funny meme that goes is like how dare someone talk over me while I'm interrupting? Like

Scott Benner 1:24:48
I like when people say like, he talks over people. I'm like, you know, some people will talk forever if you don't interject, and that, you know, I'm just trying to move the conversation along. But nevertheless, we are um Okay, so I want to go back to I'm sorry, I'm gonna forget myself in a second. So you've, you know, you just take a left turn, start taking better care of yourself. But then how does that happen? Like, I mean, you've been living a long time with diabetes and not doing a great job of it, like, did you know what to do and just weren't doing it? Or did you have to learn what to do?

Cate 1:25:20
I think it's a bit of both. So I'm, like I went on to it. So I went on to a pump when I started going to the adult hospital. So the one that I go to is uch is the short form for it. When I was 18, diagnosed with neuropathy, the diabetes nurse educator, QC H, automatically put me on a pump and I'd been fighting to to be put onto a pump and they didn't trust me to be on a pump. They didn't think it was good for my health, despite MDI, obviously not working for me. And Sharon was like, yeah, no, you're going, you're going straight onto a pump, it doesn't matter. Like, this is what you need. And within like, six months of being on a pump, it's my doesn't sound it still sounds awful, but like my h1 sees, went down to nine. So when I'm used to being you know, like, 12, and 13, going down to nine, I was like, Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, so this is what this is, like, that's cool. Um, and then it kind of just snowballed effect. From there. Like, I was like, okay, so I kind of, I still wasn't great at doing it. But I was a lot better at doing it and watching kind of what I was eating. And then as I started becoming, like, more aware of my body and how it felt and how it reacted to things, I saw, I started being like, Oh, my, I can feel good. Just by looking after myself. I don't, I don't need these outside sources to feel great. Like, I if I take insulin, when I'm eating, I, I can feel good about that. Like, I'm not going to go like super high and Spike and want to vomit all over the place. Because my numbers are so high. And I'm going to DKA that's how diabetes works. Oh, I had no idea that this is what control looks like, like, so it was just one of those like, Oh, this is this is what it actually means to have control over my diabetes. I can actually like function and not feel all of the time. Got you. Okay. And then it just kind of spiraled from that.

Scott Benner 1:27:39
Yeah. Did you point your crazy at the diabetes now?

Cate 1:27:42
Ah, not like, I still have a lot. I still have a lot to learn. I still feel like, there's things that I should know that I don't like. But my a one sees, like, currently is 6.1. And it has been for the last like three years. It's been like 6.1 to 6.5. So I feel like that's not just by chance, or that's not just because I fudged the numbers, you know, like I've gone, you know, because I'm really high. I just started going really low. Anything like that. To me, that's like, yeah, no, I think I'm getting a pretty good. I think I kind of know what I'm doing by now. You know, it's, like 25 years, but I feel like yeah, no, I It's okay, like, cool. So I can actually start saying like, hey, no, I do have control of my diabetes. Instead of that, what I was saying, you know, when I was a teenager being like, you know, I need to have control because I'm a control freak. I can actually be like, yeah, no, but I actually I do have control. Let me let me show facts.

Scott Benner 1:28:46
I think of diabetes control in a really strange way. Like, I don't think I think of it the way other people do. Like, I think it just once you have it, it's this thing that happens. Yes. It's not a thing you do. If not, you know, it's just you know, what, you know what to do in certain situations, you just kind of do it. They these things start to happen without you putting too much effort into them. And all of a sudden, you've got a sixth one for three years.

Cate 1:29:10
Yeah, exactly. And I feel the I absolutely, like that's the even like, even as a diabetic because I know that you're a non diabetic, I know that you're very you're very like hands on with your daughters, like type one diabetes, so it's almost it's almost like you're diabetic. Um, but I feel the same way. I feel like diet, diabetes or anything. I think anything that you have any disease, any long term illness that you have, you have it like it's just it, it is what it is like there's no point. Once things just kind of start working for you. You just kind of roll with it and everything to me just starts falling in place. You got to put a little bit of work into it at the beginning but then it becomes second nature and it just is what it is. Like yeah, No, it's I genuinely forget a lot to say, Oh, by the way, I have diabetes. Like if I'm talking to a new doctor, being a diabetic isn't the first thing that comes out of my mouth and it should be. It's, there's, you know, when you're speaking to a medical professional, hey, I'm like, I'm a type one diabetic. And I have Crohn's should be one of the first things that come out of my mouth, but a lot of the time, it's not something that comes out of my mouth, because it's just that I got a

Scott Benner 1:30:27
lot to lead with your you can you can lead that a lot of different Yeah, yeah. No, I know. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, Kate, listen, keep the shop and they and they shop will keep the that's a Poor Richard's quote. Okay. So I think Ben Franklin was saying, take care of your body and your body will take care of you. Yeah, I think it's good advice. Oddly, half the man is an older person for having that thought. But whatever. It's, it's okay. He, he was full of good ideas back then before people got a chance to have. Do you think he was smarter? Just the first one? You don't? I mean, I think give us just the first one. Because some of this is really, really common sense. Just like stuff. You'd go. Yeah, obviously. No,

Cate 1:31:11
yeah. But that's a lot of the case. I think people have become famous all that, like you talk to any kind of self help guru. And they're just all spouting common sense. Everything that they talk about is not new news. It's just, they might just understand,

Scott Benner 1:31:25
to be honest, here, no ill of a friend nor speak any of an enemy. That's interesting. So if I hear something bad about you, and we're friends, I don't I don't I don't absorb that. And if I have somebody I don't like, I don't speak poorly of them. This is it. This man is a genius. He'd been dead for hundreds of years. No one thinks of him. That's all I'm saying. Your life's not that important. Relax. No,

Cate 1:31:45
it's not. Everyone's like so hopped up on trying to leave a legacy. I don't think they thoroughly really understand what leaving a legacy actually my point,

Scott Benner 1:31:56
Kate, if we don't remember Benjamin Franklin, really? You're gonna be okay. That's yeah, yeah, we have a very odd relationship now with, with what we think of as the world knowing us, because of like social media, and it feels like everyone has this idea that everyone's aware of what they think now, because they post it somewhere, or it's on some social media place. I have to tell you, I reach a lot of people. And I really don't reach many people at all, in the grand scheme of how many people they are. There are so you know, a person on their Facebook page or on their Instagram page. They're not really talking to as many people as they think they are. No, you know, so that's a something to keep in mind. You're not spreading your genius everywhere. It's no three of your friends. And two of them are probably like, Oh, my God, this guy. Yeah. I mean, how many people follow people on Facebook just because they're like, look how irritating gene is. You know what everybody's like, I know, it's all air. You know? In his house, he's like, I'm leading a nation now. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I'm sure there are a fair amount of people listen to me, because they like think like, that guy is so wrong. I enjoy listening to it. Listening, ya know, whatever, you're just you're not, you're not doing what you think you're doing. No. I also believe that, you know, that line I talked about earlier about where, you know, polite societies rests and where you might be like, I think I'm on your side of that line. I hope so. Yeah. I don't think our company I might not be as far as like you might be for now. I don't think I can find you on the first day after I crossed over the line. But yeah, but I don't. I think that's why these conversations exist on the podcast, because as you start talking about things, I don't brush up against any of them. Like I didn't, I did not feel judgmental towards you once in the last hour and a half. And I think that if you would have tried to go tell the story to other people, they would be like, Well, let's not say that. You know, we don't want kids to hear that you had sex? Yeah. Or, you know, we don't want anybody to know that you did drugs, or you know, like, it's just and I think that's, it really is, I mean, if you if everyone's listening, when Kate needs to hear herself reflected in other people, and when you don't let her hear that. It's hard for her. And it's hard for you when you're not reflected and other people you have to let people talk. You know, I don't know people who are online and look perfect. Those Those aren't. Those aren't probably real people. They're probably just showing you the one really great part of their life. Yeah.

Cate 1:34:39
And it's really toxic. Like it's really really toxic to think because then people start thinking that that's what they need to be

Unknown Speaker 1:34:48
and then hard to attain. That it's

Cate 1:34:51
Yeah, it really is. It's the it's the it's the greatness as well as the downfall of social media is that everyone is so inert connected now that you can kind of find like minded people like you where you couldn't before. But then you also find this weird, like, pedestal like people on pedestals that it's really hard to obtain that kind of perfection,

Scott Benner 1:35:14
I think, I think sharing online is valuable if you just share reality. And then, and then then people can sift through that on their own. And there are people who are trying to be famous, and they want to look perfect. And that stops, I think their content from being valuable, to be perfectly honest. And then all you're really attracting is, you know, young people who think the world might still be perfect one day, you don't have one adult, you know what I mean? Like, not one adult is looking at you going, Oh, I can get my butt that size. You know, adults, like I gotta pay for my stuff like I need. You know, I don't have time to, I mean, how many deep knee bends do I have to do before my free time?

Cate 1:35:58
I don't have time, I do not have time.

Scott Benner 1:36:00
Now. By the way, if you'd all stop watching that person on Instagram, they wouldn't have time either. So yeah, you know, like, you get in that weird kind of, I don't know, like, what are you doing? And who are you doing it for? It's, it's all just, I mean, look, I make this podcast because I think it helps people. But it's also a business. It makes money. You know, I mean, there are days when I get up, and I think I'm going to have this conversation today. Because it's going to be really important, and people are going to get a lot out of it. I think that almost every day, honestly. But there's a small percentage of me that's like, I need to make content to put an ad on. Right? You're all you're all just lucky. I'm a decent person. Because, seriously, because if not, there'd be 12 ads on each one of these episodes. Yeah. And you all have heard something where you know what I'm talking about where you're like six minutes into it. And the guy's like glycine, you're like glycine? What is this like? Well, glycine is and you're like Jesus, Are we ever gonna get the cake. And then the cake comes on, it's got six seconds to talk, because the ads are so much I could do that I could probably, like, do it tomorrow. Doesn't seem valuable to me now, because then I don't think you'd listen. And then now it's all gone. So it's gone. I want this to exist, because I want someone to hear you. And reach out and be like, I heard Kate. And I want to be on the podcast because of that, because you have no idea how many really interesting conversations. You all have heard on this podcast that started with a private note to me that says, Hey, I heard this girl say she took heroin on your podcast. And that made me feel like I could be on. But then that person talks and doesn't ever mention heroin. So you have no idea how great it is to just be yourself and be honest. And Kate, you've helped a lot of people today, you just don't even know it yet. So thank you very much. And you gave me a place to put my ad so right on. I'm just Yes. Yes. Plus, Canadian women. There's something there. I haven't figured it completely out yet. But you're all different. In a weird way. I guess. I don't know how to. I haven't figured it all out yet. But I don't know. I think it's good. Like,

Cate 1:38:10
I feel like I feel the same way about Americans as a whole. Like, cuz you guys aren't you're not different. But you're different. And it's in I can, it's weird. I don't I don't understand it. Because a lot of us sound the same. But we're not. And yeah, you

Scott Benner 1:38:26
know, a couple of times today, I appreciated that. You were like, you just did I

Cate 1:38:31
say a boot or did I say about because so this is the thing. You did not say eat the east. The east coasters are the ones that say boot. They're the ones not all of them. Newfies especially are the ones that kind of sound a little bit funny. For the most part,

Scott Benner 1:38:48
so Okay, fair. You didn't say a boot you said about what you about. you're Canadian, though. Who in the middle? I don't know how to put it exactly.

Cate 1:38:56
I don't know how to I know. But the the people saying it's a boot it they're taking it from the East Coast, you can get like hosers like our which are also like the Canadians is more and it's not derogatory. I don't find it a derogatory term. If anyone calls me a Hoser I'm like, Yeah, I am. But like there's a, a, a very like Canadian accent whenever you start, like, all your holes are. Like, it's just a very, like, even though you're a Canadian. I know what you are not just because you've just said a very Canadian term, but no, you actually have a Canadian accent. So there is like a very specific Canadian accent that tends to be mostly outside of cities not along the US border, I find that we start sounding a lot more American, the closer to the borders we get. But the more North you get is where you start. The Canadian isms as well as a Kenyan accent is really honed in on.

Scott Benner 1:39:57
I have I have one more real question. And before I let you go, Okay, I've kept you much longer than I said I was going to apologize. Do you? Are there people in your life professionally or personally who don't know any of this about you?

Cate 1:40:12
A lot of the majority of people know what I want them to know. So there's nobody in my life Tyler included that knows the entire story, right? Yeah. So and a lot of the time, it depends on where they've entered into my life. But like, even my mom, and I'm close with my mom now, like, we're like, we're very close, which is bananas to think about? Because of what we've gone through together, like me growing up and what have you. But even she doesn't know all the ins and outs of it. She has the best understanding of it. But even she doesn't know all the ins and outs of it. That's because I keep it close to me. Yeah. But it's not something you sit down with two people at dinner and be like, yeah, so I tried to off myself back when I was 14. And man, what a trip. Like it's not really, because it's such a lot of what I've been through is very taboo, that it's not normal conversation that you have, right. It's a the rest of our dairy.

Scott Benner 1:41:22
I'm so sorry. The rest of that question to me is like if we take a coworker, for instance, like not that you would go to work and be like, Hey, did you want to hear about the time I thought to kill myself when I was 14? Like not that you would say that? But I mean, are? Are they're just like, is there a person in your life? Who would hear this and be like, Wait, Kate, the girl I ate lunch with? Are you serious? Like, like, do you come off? Like totally normal to people in some aspects of your life?

Cate 1:41:47
Oh, god. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of it's because it's I'm really good at reflecting what they want to see all the time. So yeah. Oh, god. Yeah. I don't give like that's not it's I don't I don't care. But absolutely, that there will be people listening to this being like, I thought I knew that chick. And clearly, I did not know that.

Scott Benner 1:42:09
There's part of me that thinks that one day this recording will be used in a court case.

Cate 1:42:18
I feel like there's a lot of things that could be used against me, and it is what it is. I feel Scott,

Scott Benner 1:42:23
we need a copy of that recording. You do? Yes, she killed a fisherman with a seal. It was horrible. I don't even want to explain how it happened. But it was terrible. So yeah, okay. Well, listen. I for anyone else listening, if you're as up as Kate is, on the podcast,

Cate 1:42:46
please come on. We need a group, you need to show that there's more of us out there. Because there are there are more of us out there. Scott.

Scott Benner 1:42:55
I also don't mean up. I mean, like, who have been through things and are willing to talk about? Yeah,

Cate 1:43:01
it's okay. Like, it's okay to talk about it. And it's okay to go through a lot of production. And at the end of the day, if you if you want to you will come out the other side. And it's not to say that like if you don't want to that you're weak or anything like that, but it's I feel like it's you can go through a lot of and you can still find a meaningful relationship, buy a house, I don't Scott, I don't even have my high school diploma. And I'm, I work as a professional, I've traveled the world I've been through a lot of that should have seen me dead. And I, for all, you know, for all intents and purposes, I've kind of checked off a lot of checkmarks that people growing up, think in order for you to make it as an adult. These are the things you need to do. I have accomplished that. But it's I've just done it in an automated way.

Scott Benner 1:43:53
I have to say the least shocking thing you've said today is I don't have a high school diploma. I was like, I don't have a high school sense. Yeah.

Cate 1:44:00
I don't I had to I dropped out. I got like, halfway kicked out and then I dropped out. And

Scott Benner 1:44:06
last question. I said last question that I asked the question now second question. Do you ever think about having kids?

Cate 1:44:14
i The conversation has come up I have been pregnant and the conversation has come up. I am cognizant that I I don't know how good have an idea that is. more so because of my because of what's already been established with my mental health. I don't know if postpartum is a good idea for me. And I feel like it is more likely to happen like to have some postpartum trauma and what have you. I definitely think it is something that needs to be considered. And I will probably make it like it's it's I like to think I would be really cool mom. But, you know, I'd say, if they would be crying to me, I'd be like, I don't know what the crying about, like in that thing where we like, where parents are like, I don't know what's wrong like why like, tell me what's wrong with you? I'd be I genuinely be like I don't understand what you're saying because I don't I don't understand. So let's I think I could put a lot of trauma on my own kids. But I still think I could be a pretty cool mom because I've been through it all and yeah, I hear easygoing.

Scott Benner 1:45:28
Again, I think you, you answered exactly how I expected you to you have a lot of introspection and, and I didn't think you'd say much different. Maybe you just be cooler Kate, who knows where the coke is? Maybe that would be

Cate 1:45:39
which I already am. I'm like, I like that was the big thing. So for years, I've always been like, anti kids. Relief cool on. And that's when I am like, so I've got like two nephews and then I've got like a few best friends that have babies and they're like all my nieces and nephews. So like, so I'm like, Auntie Kate, to a lot of little kids. And I love it. Because they also get to go home to their parents. And you know, like, come see me if you want to go get a tattoo. Like

Scott Benner 1:46:08
sounds like a bad joke. But it's no kidding. There are times as parents I'm just like, What am I why did i What was that was everyone needs? Yes. I never write about anything which is fascinating. And I you know, I find myself standing in my home sometimes going you know, a lot of people seem to agree with things I say sometimes you'd be it's shocking that you all have an agree with me once ever. Just like I've never said anything sensible. Is that right? Yeah, anyway, if I'm you, I don't do it. But whatever. Yeah, don't listen to me. Thank you, Kate, very much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on it last.

A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com forward slash juicebox. Thanks also to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter visit contour next one.com Ford slash juicebox. And of course you can get your tickets and learn more about touched by type one at touched by type one.org. Also, you can find them on Facebook and Instagram

it's a pretty long episode. So I'm gonna get out of here and just say thank you for listening. Like you know, if you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please tell a friend. If you like this episode of afterdark there are a lot more afterdark episodes, head over to Facebook page Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, go to the feature tab. There's a whole list of them there where you can find them on juicebox podcast.com. If you're listening in a podcast app right now just search Juicebox Podcast juice boxes one word, and after dark again. Those are two words. So juice box one word podcast one word after one word dark one word Juicebox. Podcast after dark. They should all pop right up in front of you. I made it sound much more difficult than it is

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#715 Bold Beginnings: Fear of Insulin

Bold Beginnings will answer the questions that most people have after a type 1 diabetes diagnosis.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 715 of the Juicebox Podcast

Hello again and welcome back to the bulb beginning series today is actually the fifth episode but third installment. The way that happened was that episode 702 was about honeymooning 706 was about adult diagnosis. And then 711 was supposed to be terminology, but it got a little long. So that ended up being terminology part one at 711 and terminology Part Two at 712 which makes today's episode 715 bold beginnings fear of insulin. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, you can complete the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. Your answers to these simple questions will help people living with type one diabetes T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box this episode of bold Beginnings is sponsored by Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes. You can get started today with the M pen at in pen today.com. The podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Learn more about Ardens blood glucose meter at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox jetting so far we have I think three episodes of the bull beginning series are out or today actually, as we record this the dolt diagnosis one went up. And today we are going to record fear of insulin lows and highs. And there were a ton of a ton of feedback that came from people again, these are statements from people in my private Facebook group, when asked what do you wish you would have known at diagnosis and surrounding the fear of insulin, low blood sugars, high blood sugars, we got this back. So just a couple of them here in the beginning, it's going to set the stage that don't really need a response, I was scared of insulin. The next one says seriously, the fear of insulin was real. We were scared of insulin as the next one, we had to wake up twice a night for finger sticks. And it felt like we were chasing a blind number. I'm really glad they did have me practice with glucagon. Because when I had to use it, even having to think about it. You know, the person said they wanted to understand glucagon so badly because when they actually had to use it, they were having an experience that was so surreal that there was no time to think my daughter's had a couple of seizures. And I know what that feels like you're like, you just you look at that package. And you just hope your your body remembers what to do, you know, right? The first thing I really want to talk about here is this statement from a person who said, I was handed a bunch of pamphlets and they said read these and oh, by the way, this insulin stuff, it can kill your kid. So don't do it wrong. But don't worry, because we've given you all the tools you need. And this person said they were freaked out instantly, rightly

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:43
so with that type of explanation. Because I'm really you're given pamphlets to explain something that for the most part, a lot of people who are using insulin, are completely using it like off the Standard label of prescription that their doctor told them. Right? I mean, eventually you get to the point of or many people do have, there is no fear and you understand the action of insulin, you understand how to manage around it. And that takes fear out of the picture. Because you you get it but initially to just be given these pamphlet that's like here. Oh, and be careful because this could kill you. But clearly, exactly. There's no fear here.

Scott Benner 4:27
Everything's Don't worry. We taught you everything you need to know. And you're sitting there thinking, I don't know anything. So how could that be true? It isn't really weird situations like hey, here's a car don't worry, they're super safe, but wear the seatbelt and drive 45 And don't hit anything for God's sakes because you're gonna fly through the windshield and die. But don't worry, we thought you were the brake was so it's going to be okay. And it just a lot of this does end up boiling down to the person that you luckily or unluckily bump into when you're diagnosed to you know, just their ability to explain some because that's statement, you could just say it in reverse. You could say, Hey, listen, we've set you up with all the tools that you need. I know you don't feel comfortable with them right now. But trust me experiences are going to make them feel more and more just just real to you things you don't have to think about. But until you get to that point, it's important to remember that too much insulin could make you low, could give you a put you in a seizure. I mean, if you gave yourself way too much he could kill, you just have to say it backwards. Yeah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:30
And also bring in and these are the preventative things that we're doing from the start. So that that doesn't happen sooner, eventually, you will have low blood sugars, eventually your child will have a low blood sugar, it will happen. I mean, they put out this, like insulin will, can can cause a low blood sugar, insulin will cause a low blood sugar. At some point in your life with diabetes, you will have a low blood sugar you will, right? So just tell somebody that right? That takes it out of the picture of Well, is it going to happen? Yes, yes, it's going to happen. But this is what to do. These are the tools you have, you've got simple carbohydrate, this is what you can expect it to do. You've got glucagon, this is what you can expect that it's going to do for you. You've got these pieces to manage. When that happens, right, which should help somebody feel less fear in using it right. It's not like they're dropping you off in the middle of the desert with nothing around and up. Here you go. But you got to take your insulin.

Scott Benner 6:33
It's like when you do send your kids out driving the first time you're like, listen, drive very safely be aware of people around you. When you have an accident, which is going to happen one day, here's what you do next. You know, do you don't say if because it gives you that feeling of like, well, maybe I'm gonna be one of the people who never happens to. And then you spend your whole life kind of paranoid, paranoid. Aliy that's good. Can't be a word, but you're paranoid, and is now I'll make up words. But you get in this situation where you're constantly trying to stop a thing. It's like trying to stop the sun from coming up. Like one day your blood sugar's and look, the next person says, I wish the doctors would have explained to us the likelihood of lows and how to treat them. No one told us about that. And my son had a bad low first time we came home sounds like the kid was gonna libre to wanders into their bedroom at 1130 going, hey, something's making noise in my room, because you remember that the poor kids only had diabetes for two minutes, you know, right? His blood sugar's 45. And then this poor lady sleeps in his bedroom for the next month. And then she gets a Dexcom that gives her like, you know, alarms that are a little more in the moment, and but a month, she's on the floor or on a bed or something, because now she doesn't know the kid doesn't know. They're all in a panic. Why? Because somebody didn't just say what you just said, you know, the first day my daughter went to kindergarten, I went to the nurse and I said, let me explain all this stuff to you. I explained it all to her. And she goes, Don't worry, we won't let that happen. I said, No, you misunderstand. I'm not telling you this stuff. So you can stop it from happening. I'm telling you this stuff so that when it happens, you know what to do. Right? It's like it's diabetes. We're not going to stop diabetes from being diabetes. You know, right. This lion is going to bite your face one day. Yeah. I don't care how many times you go into the cage within. It's fun. And you're in Las Vegas me like, is that a Siegfried and Roy reference? It is? Yeah, one day the lions going to kill you. Okay? It's at least gonna come at you. At least bite your arm. You need to know how to hold up the whip in the chair when it happens, you know, right? Well,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:36
there is actually what I was gonna say, you know, you need to know what to do. But in some cases, I think people get really good tools, and really good explanation. And in other cases, people do not they get these rip off pages that say, well, here you go. This is all the information that you need. Just make sure you read through it. Oh, and here's your medicine. It's called insulin. You have to take it here, here. And here. Oh, and you know, you might have low blood sugar. But then again, what can you do about it? Or what are even some of the tools? Or I guess what are some of the variables that could cause a low blood sugar? So you're ready, right? You can say okay, well activity will cause your insulin that you have to take to work better. So be careful for low blood sugars. If your child eats a meal and then goes and plays soccer for three hours, right? All these things that they should know are sometimes the definite causes of low blood sugar because then at least people are aware of where they might see a low

Scott Benner 9:40
well and everything you're saying supports this next statement, the person said there was so much anxiety my child had a fear that the ambulance was going to come take him away constantly. Your took months to wear away she said so. You know, everything you just said would have given this person, a little bit of calm or even something to say to the kid because that gets Like what's gonna happen? And when you're when your answer is, I don't know, you know, like, that's not supportive in any way for people. One person is this great excuse. We're gonna kind of segue here a little bit. Before we do, though, I want to say, I think it's, it can be worse for adults that are diagnosed, because I think they get sometimes even less. And we talked about this the adult diagnosis episode, and it's fresh in my head, because I just put an edit on the show, and I just heard it again. But that when you're an adult, sometimes you're like, here's the insulin, go to the store, get this prescription filled for needles, and then go see your Endo. And then you call the Endo. And then it was not available for 45 days,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:38
or worse, like six months. And in the meantime, they have you visit with, like, a nurse or somebody in between who, you know, there's, there's a definite disconnect for adults. Absolutely. And I think the other piece for adults is a lack of enough initial good information, but also, many times that adult is on their own. Right, they may not have a spouse or a significant other, or a family member who they're close enough with, that they could share this with and get someone to look in on them if you will, right. And that makes it harder, because kids who have a parent or a caregiver, there's somebody that's got their back, right consistently paying attention for them. Adults don't have that it is it is on you.

Scott Benner 11:30
And you can slide into a depression, you can just slide into a complacency. Listen, completely disconnected from from diabetes, my son just graduated from college, it's got a really good degree. It's a bright kid. And we told him, like come home from school, like, you know, just take a little time decompress, and everything, but now he's been home for about three weeks. And I had to go into him the other day and be like, Hey, let's get going now, right? Like, you know, he's he hasn't had your break. Like he doesn't, it's just as simple as situation where he doesn't know the next thing to do. And you kind of turtle up sometimes. And then this is about and then on top of that you're scared of low blood sugars are hot, you know, whatever. Anyway, this next person says, I wish someone would have just told me that you can drink water when you're high. And that will help you know. So that's an example. They don't even understand how hydration affects the way the insulin works. Right? Absolutely. So okay, I wish I had known that it would take some time to decrease a blood sugar, the initial one from the diagnosis number. And I really wish someone would have told me that my daughter might feel low in the hundreds. And and that even though the number was normal, she would feel like she was low, like that was never explained. Do you think people even understand that for the most part? I don't

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:45
think so. And it's a it's a very good point that this person brings up absolutely, you know, when you when your body has grown accustomed to a glucose level, right. And at initial diagnosis, your body has gotten used to feeling nasty, and it just thinks that that's the norm add a blood sugar of let's say, 300 Plus, potentially. And with that being the case, once your blood sugar starts to come down, now that you're taking insulin, even drifts in blood sugar, not drastic drops, but just a drift under where your body's kind of been residing for a time can start to feel like a low blood sugar. Do you need to treat that? No, but it can be scary. Because it feels like all these symptoms you've been told to watch out for which indicate, oh, my goodness, my blood sugar is too low. But you look at your numbers, whether you're already on a CGM, or you're just doing a fingertip finger stick because you're curious what is going on, then the number doesn't look like it's in the low range. It can be very hard to know, well, what do I do about this? Yeah,

Scott Benner 13:53
and the idea that you will get your body will get accustomed to it after a while but you can't forget while you're explaining all this to people, the feeling is still real. Yeah, you you feel like your blood sugar's 35 and your blood sugar's 110. And it's it can take sometimes days and weeks depending on how long you've been high for your body to get regular. And feel that feel that way when you're in a regular number, I should say.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:18
In fact, when I was when I was diagnosed eons ago, things are very different. But there's no fancy stuff.

Scott Benner 14:27
My mom had to go outside and wind up the car to take her to the

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:32
me sound like I'm like 90 No. But you know, I was in the hospital for a week, a full week. And they wanted me to have a low blood sugar while I was in the hospital, so that I could experience lows or a low symptom and know what to do about it with I'm assuming the idea that there was somebody there with me, and that they could help me see Yeah, how quickly it could be treated? how it would feel different once my blood sugar was normalized again. So I mean, that was part of my week long hospital stay

Scott Benner 15:12
was, did they announce? Or is it just like? Did they tell you? We're gonna make you low while you're here? Do you remember? No, no. Okay, just know. And then you realize

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:20
I do? Well, they did say that I remember the discussion, you know, with my parents, we would like for there to be an excursion to a lower level, so that Jenny can get an idea of how that feels that you can hopefully be here at that same time. So that you can see how we treated and everything. And I did have a lower blood sugar. I mean, it was by no means low, low, but it was certainly low or dropping. I do remember how I felt. And but the good thing was that I got explanation. Yeah,

Scott Benner 15:52
right. And for the little things, you end up figuring out on your own like sub first, a lot of people you can feel a fall. So yeah, so you feel the fall before the numbers an issue and correct, you know, just stuff like that. It's great to learn these next two statements are interesting. They're made by two different people. And it's a great perspective in into what someone thinks before they've heard the podcast and what somebody thinks after they've heard the podcast. Oh, awesome. So this first person says, I wish they had taught us to use insulin without being afraid of lows. So that's a person who's now been listening for the pot to the podcast was like, I know now, how important using insulin is correctly. You know, the fear of loads is what was stopping me from using etc, etc. But then here's a person who is giving you a perspective from before they heard the podcast, I had way too much fear of insulin, they pretty much had me feeling like I was going to kill my son, probably within the first week. So so there you go, right. Like there, there's got to be a better way to. And I think we've gone over a lot of it already. But there's got to be a better way to let people understand how insulin works, other than just to say to them, don't do it feels like it's 1950. And they're like, if you smile at a boy, you're going to be pregnant. Yeah, exactly. Right. So there's the so if you're getting if you're listening to this, and you got that kind of information, I think you have to, you have to make the leap into the Pro Tip series and and listen through, so you can get an idea for how insulin works. So you can be use it in a more targeted way or a more meaningful way, you know, any way you you kind of want to think about it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:29
Because then it does, it does for many people. And I would say, you know, with this topic of fear of insulin. I think I've seen more adults who have had a fear of insulin, tied with a fear to things being too low, then kids, and many times parents are very, I would say parents are very good about not projecting their fears onto their children write for them. For the most part. I mean, there are some that that's not the case for but I think parents are, they try very hard to internalize worries and fears so that their child doesn't see that as well, in terms of how to feel about something they're going to be living with right. Adults, however, again, are the ones managing their own health there, there may not be a secondary assistive person there for them. So the fear of insulin can be very real, when you're the only one who's got your back. Yeah. So you know, in that I think it does, it's learning about how does insulin work? And how does it work for you. And sometimes, as I've worked with people, sometimes it's getting used to even just knowing what small doses do. And then you can build on that, especially if you really just don't want to eat lettuce salads your entire life and who want to gravitate into other things that may require more insulin. Learning how to use more insulin should start in smaller doses then so that you can get a comfort level with what that does. And with less need to over treat, because there's not as much insulin left laying around. Yeah, right.

Scott Benner 19:21
Well, so here's the other side of it. Here's a comment one piece of well meaning but bad advice that I got from another type one was that a high blood sugar will not send you to the hospital, but a low blood sugar can so it's best to leave yourself high. So it's now it's better high than low, which you know, and then

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:41
has very bad advice. Yes, very bad advice. Do not listen to that piece of advice.

Scott Benner 19:47
But But it's an interesting way of showing how when you get bad information at first it leads to fear and then you go out into the world. Because you think oh I know this thing that's going to save someone analogy. I have to go tell them. And now you the internet's interesting because when you're listening to someone talk, you have no idea if they've had diabetes for three minutes longer than you were three years longer than you. And when you don't know what you're talking about the first thing that said, you often you go, Okay, well, this person must know better than I do. You know, and that is the one. That's one spot where I'm proud of my Facebook group where people do speak up. And so you know, if someone comes in with a kind of a new idea, someone else will nicely say, hey, look, you know, we all get told that in the beginning, but here's the reason why you don't want your blood sugar to be high, you know, highs, cause lows, and etc. and stuff, you'll find out listen to the podcast.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:41
Though I do like in the group, too, that a lot of people are very able to point to either some of the episodes that you've done about specific topics and said, Hey, for a lot more in depth information. And really to clarify this question, listen, here, go here. Try this, right.

Scott Benner 21:00
There's a lot of I tell you, there was a moment where I realized I can't keep up with this, because it used to be me. Like during the day, I'd pop in and out and be like, Hey, look at episode this to do that. Or this? Have you listened to the protests? And one day, I was like, I can't, I can't, I don't I don't have the bandwidth for this, you know, and now, it's 24/7. Isabel helps me with it now, which is terrific. But at one point, I just said to the people in the group, I was like, if you see a question that can be answered by an episode, share the episode. And that's been very helpful for people. Okay, so then you see, the next person knows this and says, Don't accept high blood sugars as a norm, because you'll start looking at numbers and just going out 200, it's not that bad, you know, and that turns into 210, which turns into 250. And on the way, here's an interesting one, I was just told to take my insulin 15 minutes before my food to Pre-Bolus. So I injected 10 units of Novolog. On a 15 minute drive to get my food. I had a low on the highway. And and here's the kicker, I didn't even know insulin could cause a low, I wish someone would have mentioned that. So, obviously, obviously Pre-Bolus thing is very important, right, and to get your insulin timed well, and you'll hear that in other episodes. But this person, the information they got was almost good, like you need to Pre-Bolus. But the person never in their mind thought that the insulin could take them lower than they want it to be like imagine that like, it's right. Jenny, there's an app on my wall hold, I was gonna say it looks like you're looking at like this has to die give me a second.

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Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:17
I thought perhaps you had like water leaking from your ceiling or maybe ghosts on your ceiling or something.

Scott Benner 26:24
I'll tell you I might prefer to ghosts because I don't believe in those. And I would have just thought I just like dizzy. But I kept thinking like that thing's gonna crawl over my head and fall. Sorry. So you're big black and I've never had a plant in this room. I'm gonna have to sell this house. Okay.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:40
Now in the house. It is stinkbugs I don't know. I don't know where they have decided that their home is outside that they don't like but they come in our house and I don't care. I just take them outside. I boys who love bugs and love stuff. They hate stink bugs, they will come flying in and be like, ah, there's a stink bug on the ceiling in my bedroom. And I'm like, okay, who's bigger? You bigger?

Scott Benner 27:07
Think bigger? You know, they're an import. Right? They came here. Are they really i This is not what this is about? Okay, I want to say China maybe. But anyway, look it up. Have fun finding out. Okay. So the expert says safe numbers are not high. Even if doctors tell you that. I wish someone would have been, you know, clear earlier. Another person says I wish someone would have started in terms of telling me where to bring those numbers down. How do I do it with basil? Like, where to carbs fit in? Like they didn't have any? You don't? I mean, like the stuff that seems kind of obvious after you had diabetes for a while in the beginning. None of that's going to feel obvious, right? None of it like you know, when you

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:49
because it's brand new. This is a concept that nobody has taught about at all you may learn in I mean, I remember learning about the tiny little I think it was two paragraphs in my human biology course in high school. And I myself having diabetes at that point, I was like, What is this bunch of like silliness? I was like this dude, no way describes, but I'm supposed to learn something from it.

Scott Benner 28:17
Yeah, in a way, it mirrors how little we tell people about nutrition even and like crap fueling their body. Everybody just is like, Look, I get up, I washed my butt. I get hungry, I put something in my face. And then 10 years from now, when I'm 40 pounds heavier. I go what happened? Right, you know, like, they get it. Yeah, nobody really understands how things work. And listen, I grew up really poorly. I grew up broke, like, my mom had $60 to buy food for three people, right for a week. And we ate, whatever, whatever we could. And it was Yeah, crappy food. And by the time I was an adult, as I was heavy, like I was just like, Mike Kelly and I were together and like, we didn't know what we were doing, we started over again. And you know, we were able to take care of it. But it's amazing how through your life. It's pervasive. You know, like we, how hard how easy it is to have a feeling of hunger and want to grab something that's easy in a bag or something like that, versus like, I'll let me have this orange or something to that effect. It just it gets burned into and you don't know it. And that happens with people with diabetes all the time. Because as we're talking about these newly diagnosed problems, I can tell you that if you don't figure them out early, you're going to be one of any number of people in their 20s or 30s or 40s or 50s who come on the show. Hold on.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 29:39
Jenny, somebody somebody was very importantly wanting to get in, you know, in touch with you.

Scott Benner 29:48
Walgreens again. So, so I've talked to too many people who have had diabetes for decades, who are still making the same. I don't want to call them mistakes but decisions over and over again. And when you then present them with this information. It's sad, because they think well, why couldn't someone have told me this five or 10 or 20 years ago? Like, I can't get this time back now, you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:14
and I, I think, and this is kind of a, it's a slippery slope to kind of, to walk on, honestly, because I truly believe that it starts when someone is diagnosed. And they are told if we're just talking nutrition, right? They're essentially told, you can eat anything you want, right? And just take insulin, when you're supposed to

Scott Benner 30:39
take it. I mean, that powering statement, correct, it's supposed

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:43
to be empowering in that. You don't have to worry as long as you just take this thing called insulin. Well, I mean, it brings in a whole nother rabbit hole of discussion, though, of, well, you want your child or you want yourself to be eating and doing what do you see every other child doing? But is every other child eating the way that they should be eating? Right, whether they have diabetes or not, or as an adult? Are you eating the way that your colleagues are eating? Because that's what they're doing? And you're only following suit? Is that really? Do they look healthy? You know?

Scott Benner 31:21
Do you know? I don't know, do you know that there are three aisles in my grocery store that I don't go down, just based on the physical appearance of the people I see in the aisles. I just think I just look at them. And I think I don't want my life to be like that. I clearly don't need this is something in those aisles, is because because then they're I know, I'm I know, this is probably a weird thing to say. But then I look at other aisles where people see more fit. And I don't see them, I don't see these two people in these different aisles. And I'm like, I'm gonna go follow the guy around with the nice calves and see what he buys. You don't I mean?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:58
Sure. I mean, if you look at pictures, I mean, honestly, in the ages of development, since I would say, maybe the 1950s or 60s, potentially, when more like processed packaged convenience, stuff probably started to become more than the norm. If you look at pictures like beach photos from like, the shore or something, it is very difficult to see a body that isn't somewhat fit. Most of the bodies look like healthy bodies. Today's pictures would look very, very different. I mean, there's there's got to be something in the food, and how we are packaging what we are eating. That's creating a lot of issue within diabetes. Yeah,

Scott Benner 32:50
and how does it fit into this subject? It fits into this subject, because when you first have diabetes bolusing for real food is easier than bolusing for processed food. And no one's gonna mention that to you. No one. No, you this person says not knowing how fast or slow insulin could hit or not knowing that, hey, this could kill you. At first I was under the impression this is the part that's important. I was under the impression that okay, my kids going to eat and I got this robotic insulin dosing strategy and everything is just going to be fine. And so they were you know, they were told count the carbs, give the insulin, do it like this all just gonna work out. And it doesn't go the same way. And that leads people to say things like, Oh, it's just diabetes, or, you know, one day I eat the same thing. And then the next day I eat and it's all different. No one tells you that the next day your insulin site is a is a is a day older. No one says, you know, you had a, you know, you don't know, right? Nobody gives you enough the details. I had a burrito one day, and I did well with it. But I had a burrito the next day and it didn't work. Well. What did you make the burrito? The first thing was the next day was it from Taco Bell? Because, you know, that's but in people's mind, it's burrito burrito. And, you know, it's just anyway, it's important. This person says, and I'm proud of this, I wish I would have known what Scott says that trust. What you know is going to happen is going to happen for Lowe's. When I treat Lowe's i You need to trust that it's going to work the way you know it's going to work. Otherwise, you're going to create a rebound high afterwards, right? Which can ruin a day. Safe numbers aren't high numbers. My first big concern was hypose. It's what they really hammered home in the hospital she needs to eat this exact amount of food has to be weighed or she's going to have a Hypo. And the person says But what I learned is this hypose are actually pretty straightforward. And they're only a massive pain when my daughter's asleep. High blood sugars produce far more fear me now. I assume there was only an issue with high blood sugars with the out she assumed that high blood sugars were only a problem if there were a presence of ketones and now she He realized that that's not right. So they didn't think a high number was a problem in less ketones were present. Right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:08
Which is often when I mean, there are two angles, right, really low blood sugar fear that really high blood sugar, ketones fear the potential of DKA. But you may have high blood sugars that are just within the realm of high enough without producing ketones, that now you're leading into, if there's enough consistency to it, you're leading into continued damage, right? Long term,

Scott Benner 35:38
this next person says, I wish I would have known that every time the blood sugar shot up, I didn't have to check for ketones every single time like every time this kid gets a blood sugar for like 200. There, they're testing ketones, and there's episodes on ketones and how to understand them. This person's quoting the podcast says instead of beating yourself up When blood sugar shoot up or down, figure out why and try to prevent it next time take this as a learning experience. But you have to know it's not going to be perfect. You know, maybe never, and definitely not in the beginning. You know, and just to speak about that for a second. These things are going to happen right there, you're not going to stop them from happening. There's two, in my mind, there's two responses, you can panic and beat yourself up and be like, Oh, I did it wrong. This sucks. I'm never gonna figure this out. Or you can just realize there's a learning experience happening in front of you, when you step back, take yourself out of it for a second and look at it, I put the food in here, I put the insulin in here, this is what happened next. I bet you if I would have done the insulin a little sooner or a little later, the food, you know, etc. If I would have just slid these things around in the timeline of my eating. I wonder how that would have impacted these bell curves that I'm seeing all my CGM? Are these numbers I'm seeing right here. Right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:51
It is I mean, diabetes, I've I've thought for a really long time how diabetes is it is like a daily science experiment, if you will, right. And sometimes those days, you're given the same little petri dish with, you know, like orange growing spots. And because your day is similar enough to the days before, the dots keep growing purple, because you got it, you've kind of figured it out, you know, your timing, you know what ends up happening if you do it this way, or that way, and then comes in a day where the dots turn orange and purple for free, and whatever, by the end of the day. And usually there's a variable in the picture that you've not encountered before, or was something completely different that you've just, you know, you've never had that burrito from Johnny's corner spot. You know, so

Scott Benner 37:44
it's pretty learn as the person says, I wish someone would have told me to always carry snacks, supplies and emergency treatment with you. I am frequently thrown by how many people don't travel with at least a juice box extra or their meter. Sometimes there's stuff like that, like, I've talked to people, like I don't need my meter. I'm like, How do you know that? Like, if you know that, then this whole thing is easy. Like, like, because you can predict there. It freaks me out a little bit like, you know, yeah, if we drive. If we drive more than 30 minutes from my home, or we're doing something like you're going to go somewhere 2030 minutes away, but you plan on being there for three or four hours. I always say to my dorm, I take a pump with you a little bit of insulin to pump up like you don't want this whole day to be ruined. If something you bang into a door and your pump pops off or things stops working. You don't want to have to stop what you're doing all the way back here. That's big picture stuff. Little easy picture stuff is you need your meter with you all the time. You need your like, I'm fascinated by people who travel without the controller for their insulin pump. Like Well, what if you need insulin? I'll do it when I get back. When you get back. What are we talking about? Like, like, but no, like, and but for lows? You have to have a way to stop a low with you. Yeah, and not just one way. Like, like, many maybe yeah, because what if you drink the juice and it keeps going? Is you know, like, I mean, there's a difference between being paranoid and being prepared? Correct. You need to be you know, in a modern society. You know, somebody in America, who's living in a house where foods readily available, I get, you know, go into your neighbor's house or something like that. Not feeling scared, but you don't start getting into cars and driving to locations where, like, yes, there's a Wawa on every corner. I mean, you know, we're some sort of a convenience store but you're not in there if your blood sugar starts dropping and you're driving your car,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:40
correct. So absolutely. I know at the in the turn of a season usually like from from winter into like spring summer. I have different persons, if you will, that I might use and I always end up having to like dig in the pockets of the purses, and fish out like the really old glucosuria cuz they're like, you know, the sugar sort of starts to get harder and whatever. And I'm like, yeah, it's time to change those out. I would eat them if I had to, but they probably aren't gonna taste very good.

Scott Benner 40:12
juice boxes in the pockets, the door pockets of our cars, right? Yeah. And one time we got down to the one where you, you're looking at you think I can't believe this is holding the liquid anymore like this should have been thrown away and replaced. It's like the squishy. Yeah. And we had to give it to Arden. And even when she took the box, she went, Oh, this is gonna be horrible. And I was like, sorry. And you know, and it'll work. It'll work. But it was like syrup. It wasn't even like it was bad. And she's she was looking at us like, You got to be kidding me. I was like, I tell you to replace these things. No one listens to me. So there you go. Here's an interesting one. I felt like I was bringing home a newborn baby. We talked about how diabetes can feel like a newborn baby. But she said that the first low that that she saw was a 74. And they were running around their house like a lunatic. Like we have to stop this. 70 for every minute, which

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:06
can be scary if it was falling fast. Or if you'd never seen that valley that's absolutely contextually.

Scott Benner 41:11
Absolutely, but in a situation where you're looking at a fairly stable 74. And you're thinking like, life is just about to end. You know, like, you know, it's when I say this sometimes because it's the one thing that I feel sad for people, but it does make me like laugh a little having been in this game for so long. It's when you see somebody like show a graph. And this kid's you know, blood sugar super stable, and then it dipped down to 80. And then the caption says, like, I saved their life with a cookie and like, what

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:44
it could have, how much it was gonna dip out?

Scott Benner 41:48
Yeah, but but like that idea. But it really what it outlines is that people just are not given accurate depictions of what a good blood sugar is. And, you know, right, I have an email that I've been going back and forth with this gentleman about that. I think this is a great place to put this. He said, I've been trying to keep my kids a one C as low as I can blood sugars as low as I can. But then I ran into this person in the diabetes community who said, No, you can't do that. Because, you know, a blood sugar under 55 causes brain damage. And I always hear those conversations. And I'm like, I'm like, I don't think anybody really knows. But it's a hard thing to respond to. Because I don't want to be the person who says I don't think a 55 blood sugar is gonna give you a brain damage. But I don't want to say that out loud. In case I'm wrong, you know what I mean? But I mean, I don't want my daughter's I don't want your blood sugar to be 55 Jenny, right. No, no, I don't want it to be 55. Doesn't feel nice. But should it sit there for a couple of minutes?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:46
That is the couple of minutes. It's kind of in theory, the idea of cumulative time is just like highs, right? So the idea of deprivation to the brain, over long periods of time are consistent over days and days and days of consistently having hours worth of low blood sugars. There is research about brain health, especially in kids. Absolutely. But if your blood sugar dips to 55, and I've certainly had 55 blood sugars, and I don't think that I am brain damage, do I sound brain damage?

Scott Benner 43:21
No kidding. No, you don't set yourself okay. Well, the way I ended up responding was I said, Look, you know, as we went back and forth, and I got contextually better what they were saying. I said, Listen, no one is saying that your blood sugar should be 55 for hours or right. You know, like I said, low and stable. A one sees not not like a life where you're like, oh my god, I'm 40 Oh my god, I'm 400 Oh, my God. Like, that's not good for you. I said you want stability? But if you can't, if you can't achieve an 80 blood sugar without it becoming a 55 you're not using your insulin correctly.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 43:58
Right. Right. And something needs adjustment. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 44:01
Right. So anyway, I mean, I don't know about I agree with what you said, I would not want any, I would not want any measurement in my body to be way off for a long time, right, your thyroid, your thyroid hormones too high for a long time. It messes you up as a human being right? If it's too low, it messes you up as a human being your blood sugar the same way. But you know, we talked about it earlier, you have diabetes, you're gonna get low at some point, like, it's just you're gonna get you're gonna, you're gonna do something, and your blood sugar is gonna be 401 day and it's just gonna happen and your blood sugar is gonna be 55 one day and it's just gonna happen and you are going to be in a situation more times and you care to count your life where you actually think you saved your life with a cookie. Right? Like it is. It is gonna happen. And yeah, you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:48
I think that's a value to these days of definitely having the technology specifically the CGM technology that we have, because you do have a little bit more visual in terms of that line of sight, right? Where are you? Where are you? Are you stable? Are you stable and sitting at home doing not very much, okay, then great. If you're sitting at, you know, 82, you're probably not going to treat that. Because you're stable. What's wrong with that? If you're 82, and you're going to head out on a 10 mile bike ride, you probably don't want an ad to blood sugar unless you've done something that you know, is now going to hold that sable at that level, right?

Scott Benner 45:29
Here's a couple of other things that are interesting to look at people's brains and how they work back and forth, like people are different, right? This one person says, I wish someone would have told me what happens when you go low, how low is gonna make me pass out what's going to happen in my body, then I wanted that information. But the next person says, here's the thing that messed me up, I thought the smallest mistake was going to kill me. And it created panic attacks. And so they go to different people in a similar situation, they want different things, different things. And that is, in the end, why you have to go out and advocate for yourself and look for information because the doctor doesn't know if you're the the person who's gonna have a panic attack. Or if you're the person who says, Hey, what's gonna happen to me after I pass out? When's that gonna happen? And those numbers are different for everybody. I've seen Arden have a seizure at at, I think 20 was a blood sugar. And I've seen her talking to me when she's 28. Like, there's nothing wrong. So I don't know what to tell you, you know what I mean? It's, it's, there's a it's a theater line, like it's, it's like you're, you're dimming a light. And there's a moment where you still have plenty of room left on the dimmer, but the thing just goes off you go, Oh, that was weird. And, you know, so here's what I would tell people is, I don't want my daughter's blood sugar under 70. If I can help it, I treat it when it looks like it's gonna go to 65. I treat it more urgently when it's under that number 6065 55. I think we've messed up pretty good here. And you know, lower than that, she's going to start becoming incapable of helping herself like it's going to start to get worse and worse. So Right. You know, to me, 70 is, I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 47:09
think another thing that goes along with this too, especially for kids is I've had a lot of parents tell me. I asked my child how they're feeling. And they say I'm fine, Mommy, I feel just fine. The kids, kids don't really I don't know that there's necessarily an age of awareness of symptoms, that they're, you know, that it starts to be like age eight, they'll definitely know what a lo feels like, right? thing for every child or teen, it's probably going to be a little bit different. But a lot of parents worried because their children just have no self awareness of symptoms. And that's hard. Because, you know, I know myself when my little kids get really busy with their Legos or whatever like they are, sometimes I have to call to them like three or four times and get their attendees are so into what they're doing that that awareness of other things is completely not there.

Scott Benner 48:08
And your kids don't have diabetes on top of No, so no. Do you have a little time or you have to go? Get a little time? Okay. The other person's I guess we need an episode on this the research about blood sugar numbers, what is actually less likely to cause long term health highs or lows. I mean, I, I don't know how scientific it is. But I I'm more worried about highs than lows. You know, for a long term health especially, I mean, short term, a low blood sugar gets right now, but you know, long term, I think it's I this is interesting, I focused so long on this, and I don't think I should have the perfect math. She says we were seriously so scared to give a little too much insulin like even by a tiny bit. And then quickly, they realized that everything was sort of a best guess to begin with. I used to on the old Omnipod PDM, you had to hold this arrow up to make the carb count go up. And yeah, and it would like get to, you know, I didn't really count carbs at that point at all. So I was like, Oh, I'm gonna do four years for this. And I'd hold the button. And if it's not there, four and a half hours I can that's fine. It's close enough. Now for little little kids a half a unit. It's a big deal. Actually, a woman made up point in an earlier statement that I never brought up. She said I once took a unit of insulin out, put it in a spoon and then I took 10 units of insulin out put it in the spoon she goes and it freaked me out at how similar those two amounts look. And I thought Yeah, it's it is interesting, isn't it? But in the you know, obviously in a syringe, you can see it better, but Right. That's just an interesting one, right? Like it is. I see people all the time, like, well, I made a Bolus that was 4.1 and I think it was too much and I'm like, but I guess all right, you know, as your as you get bigger and you require more and more insulin, those times

Jennifer Smith, CDE 49:58
one isn't going to make Hello. Which is the reason that many people, you know, especially pumpers get frustrated when they're trying to correct higher blood sugars. And their pump is recommending something like point two units. And they think well point to like, 1.2. What's the purpose of that? It's not going to do anything to help me at this point, right? Yeah. And that's when they get more aggressive. And then you're like, Oh, well, I clearly should have taken the point too. Instead,

Scott Benner 50:26
this person says, I wish someone had told me that my eyesight was changing when I got low, and that it would come back. Like I guess, from dizzy. And also, she said, conversely, I had been high for so long, that my eyesight had gotten bad. And that as I brought my blood sugar down, that change, that was scary. A person here says, I remember thinking that if she's still low, like, do I still do insulin, like when I feed, you know, like, like, okay, she's 60. But she 20 carbs. And we talked about pipettes all the time, you need to cover the amount, there's an amount of carbs to fix the low, and then there's amount of carbs, you don't need some of that needs insulin correct. And, and this one's interesting. I was told there was a three hour rule that we couldn't give any insulin unless it had been three hours since the last dose, this caused many high blood sugars for us, was not explained well. And and it seems like a big one for newly diagnosed people. And I think you should bring it up. She said, so. Yeah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 51:26
And I think I mean, we talked about stalking, I think recently in an episode, but that kind of goes along with initially, the idea that once insulin, it upon diagnosis, once insulin is starting to be injected, they're very cautious, assuming the potential for honeymoon. So what they're looking for is, let's give a timeline of what we're expecting this rapid insulin dose to work over. And let's be careful about not adding extra within this. But as you know, you always say if you've done it enough that you know that, oh, yesterday and the day before I didn't do anything, except after three hours. And her blood sugar just sat high. Yeah, clearly, there was more insulin that was needed there. So more insulin,

Scott Benner 52:19
you're gonna get into that in the next episode of this, because the next thing we're going to do is the 1515 rule. So we'll get to talk a lot about that. But we're done. We made it through there were a lot of questions in this one. And we chit chatted in the beginning about personal stuff. So I'm pretty before we started recording. So I'm very happy with what we got today. Thank you very much. Yeah, absolutely.

A huge thanks to Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes, and the contour and the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, head over to Ian pen today.com. And contour next one.com forward slash juice box to learn more about the ink pen and the Contour Next One. Just check them out. They're both terrific. Thanks to Jenny. Don't forget Jenny works at integrated diabetes.com. If you'd like to hire her, I hope you're enjoying the bold beginnings series. There's much more to come. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Hey, if you're still here, don't forget that juicebox podcast.com. diabetes protip.com is a place where you can learn more about the podcast in general find all the different series. There's a Facebook group for the podcast that has I think 27,000 people in it. Now we're getting close to that at least Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. It's a private group. So you'll have to answer a couple of questions before you're led in. Oh, oh, you know what else in that Facebook group at the feature tab at the top, there are complete lists of all of the series that exist for the podcast. And I guess I gotta find a way to get those lists on juicebox podcast.com to I'll work on that. All right. That's enough Chitty chatty right. I hope you're enjoying the podcast. If you are tell a friend. And don't forget to subscribe and a podcast that don't just listen, subscribe or follow in like Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music, something like that. You should be able to find a great free app that you can listen to the podcast in. Alright, I've said it before. I'll say it again. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Test your knowledge of episode 715

1. What is the main topic discussed in Episode 715?

• Insulin management and types
• Diabetes complications
• Carb counting techniques
• The honeymoon phase in diabetes

2. What is the honeymoon phase in type 1 diabetes?

• A period when insulin requirements are stable
• A period when remaining beta cells still produce insulin
• A time when diabetes symptoms are most severe
• A period of denial about the diagnosis

3. Why is frequent blood sugar monitoring important?

• To reduce the need for insulin
• To make informed decisions about insulin dosing
• To avoid all physical activities
• To ensure proper carb counting

4. What are the roles of different types of insulin?

• They all have the same role
• Rapid-acting insulin covers meals; long-acting insulin manages blood sugar throughout the day
• Long-acting insulin is used for corrections; rapid-acting insulin is used for fasting
• They are used interchangeably

5. How can diet and exercise impact diabetes management?

• They can aid in managing diabetes effectively
• They have no impact
• They should be avoided
• They only affect type 2 diabetes

6. What factors can affect blood sugar levels and insulin dosing?

• Only diet
• Only exercise
• Stress and illness
• None of these

7. Why is building a support network important for managing diabetes?

• To reduce the need for insulin
• To help manage the emotional and practical aspects of diabetes
• To avoid all physical activities
• To ensure proper carb counting

8. How can staying informed about new diabetes technologies and treatments help?

• It has no impact
• It can improve management strategies
• It is only relevant to healthcare providers
• It can lead to more complications

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Change Answers

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