Scott Benner 4/20/23 Scott Benner 4/20/23

#892 Southern Bells

Mary's son has type 1 diabetes and his father does too.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 892 of the Juicebox Podcast.

This episode started so bizarrely that I've chopped off the front of it and put it at the back of the episode so you can hear it. Mary is the mother of a child with type one diabetes. She came on to tell her story, but somehow, somehow her scheduled recording slot was while she was on vacation. So she did this from a hotel. And at first she tried to do it from her car, and then back into the hotel room, but her kids had to go outside. It's comically funny about the interruptions and the noises. But somehow it all goes together in this episode, so I think you'll find it delightful. There are chunks of time when I just cut out noises so you don't have to hear them. I hope this doesn't stop you from listening to it. You really shouldn't. It's rather interesting. Anyway, nothing here that Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan and becoming bold with insulin. You know that one? If you have type one, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one, please complete the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. It helps diabetes research and helps you It helps me t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Alright, we're almost up to it. today's podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Now Omni pod makes the Omni pod five which is automated. And the Omni pod dash which is not but they're both tubeless and amazing. And you can learn more about them at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll like talk for real although I have to imagine a lot of the noise is going to be at the end of the episode for people listen to it. But that's

Mary 2:12
so my name is Mary and I live in Savannah, Georgia. I my son Jackson, who just turned eight was diagnosed may 5, um, of 2020 2020 with type one

Scott Benner 2:35
over two years now.

Mary 2:38
No, I'm sorry. It's been he just had his one year in May. Excuse

Scott Benner 2:41
me. 2021. Okay, so how old is he now?

Mary 2:45
He just turned eight. Jackson, right.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:52
Do you have any, any autoimmune issues?

Mary 2:55
No, not that I'm aware of. But what was interesting was my husband had been diagnosed type two for years, you know, and he'd been on Metformin and whatnot. And then I would say maybe about five or six months post Jackson's diagnosis. I was noticing at night that my husband, his name is Keith. He was like going to the bathroom, like ferociously at night, you know, like multiple times and like, you know, like Niagara Falls. I mean, it was like, there's something going on. So I said to him after about the second night, I'm like, You need to go check your sugar because this is like exactly what we went through with Jackson. And he did and the it just read Hi.

Scott Benner 3:45
So did they decide that his medication was wrong or did he develop type one?

Mary 3:51
He has type one it was it's the later or Latta however, it's pronounced. Yeah, he went, and he got off the medication and he's on a pump now. He had all the testing done everything and I mean, everything just came back. Wow. In that in the type one direction how long

Scott Benner 4:12
was Keith being treated for type two?

Mary 4:15
Um, see me about six or seven years really long time?

Scott Benner 4:23
Do they think he had type one the whole time and it was just it was just Lada. And it was just the onset was very slow.

Speaker 3 4:29
Yeah. Oh, that's a shame. Do I know

Scott Benner 4:33
Yeah. Do you look back did it did it impact his life? Not knowing it was Lada?

Mary 4:39
Yeah, I mean, well, I look that I mean, he's always like, loved, you know, sugar. And, you know, like his, you know, like his moods. And things, you know, like looking back, it's like, wow, this makes sense.

Scott Benner 4:57
Did you find yourself applying your professional knowledge? Do his behavior and coming up with the wrong answer, but it looks right. No, no, you didn't do that. I gotcha. You mean like when you see like, like the anger or something like that, or like behavior changes because of blood sugars, it's easy to think of them as maybe being something else. So I was just wondering if that ever happened?

Mary 5:21
Well, I mean, I never thought about the types Hill. You know, like, I didn't think I didn't know much. I mean, I knew about type one because my maternal aunt is type one, she developed type one. God when she was like, in her mid to late 40s. Okay. And she'll tell you that it's because of her husband, and all the stress and he put on her

because there's no other at least that we know of autoimmune stuff. Okay. In our family.

Scott Benner 5:57
So your aunt has type one, your husband has type one. And now your son.

Unknown Speaker 6:03
Yes. Got it. Okay.

Scott Benner 6:08
Well, how did you notice your son's diagnosis? Like, did it come up on you harshly? And did you end up in the hospital? Or do you figure it out before it happened?

Mary 6:18
No, he, he got COVID. Which I was not suspecting at all. Like he, he fell asleep on the way home from baseball practice. Um, one evening, and which never happened. It just was out of character. And then we got home and he was burning up. He had like 102. So I gave him Motrin. You know, he went to bed, woke up in the morning completely fine. So I was just keeping them out for that day and was ready to send them back. And the school was like, No, we need to COVID test. I was like, Oh, alright, whatever. It's not COVID. You know? He went in and tested positive for COVID. And then I would say, three or so weeks, that was an April. Yeah, it was about two to three weeks that we were noticing. He was more tired. He didn't look right, you know, his color was off, he was more pale. And it looked like he was starting to lose weight. And every morning, every single morning, he would wake up wet. I mean, wet to the point where it was like, obviously, there was something wrong, like he had never He doesn't do that, you know, he was six years old at the time. And I mean, it was so bad. And every morning. Just he was so upset. And you know, it's funny, because just to go off topic for a second. Looking back, he would wake up some mornings, really cranky, you know, he's not a morning person anyway. But some mornings, he'd wake up just really cranky. And I would think to myself, he just needs like some shirt, like some juice or sugar to pep him up. And he would do that he'd drink a cup of orange juice every morning. And he would be a completely different person. Hmm. Which is so interesting to me. But anyway, so I noticed the you know, the wetting the bed was really concerning. And the thirst and you know, so one of my good friends is a pediatrician. And I was like, I'm bringing him in, I want like the glucose tested, you know, your everything tested, and we went in, and it was funny because the nurse came in, she did the finger poke. And she had a lollipop with her. And because, you know, he was gonna get a needle, right? So she, she took his blood, and it just the, the meter just set high. And she's like, well, it gets you're not going to be getting this and lovely. Say Chase. Okay. And you know, he had high ketones and everything in the urine. So the pediatrician came in was crying

Scott Benner 9:27
the pediatrician. So in just a couple of moments that the nurse has waved a lollipop in front of your son and then said, No, he can't have it. And the pediatrician was crying.

Mary 9:37
He was crying, dude. Like what? I mean, look, I come from the northeast, like things are different in the south, I'll tell you, but like, I just thought that was very, like inappropriate,

Scott Benner 9:49
unprofessional nonsense, a lot of things, actually. But

Mary 9:53
I mean, it's like, he's a great guy. He's a good doctor, but like, I was just very taken aback. So I just was like, like he couldn't even get the words out that he had type one whereas like I kind of already knew. So I just remember like it was yesterday I pulled my mask down I looked him dead in the face and I'm just like

Scott Benner 10:20
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Mary 13:17
Is this a life threatening emergency right now? He's like, No, ma'am. It's that I'm like, do I have time to go home and pack a bag? And he's like you have about an hour. I'm like, peace. See you later, dude. Like we're out?

Scott Benner 13:28
Did you give them your business card for you? Like, hey, I'm a psychotherapist. And you're not great at this. So you might want to talk to somebody. Did you ever resolve why he was crying?

Mary 13:41
Well, it's funny because he called the room the next day to check on Jackson. And I was like, he's like, I just I'm just so so upset about this. And I mean, I was like, Look, we're being really positive about this, buddy. You know, this isn't a death sentence. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna crush this, we're gonna be just fine. You know, like, you know, in my adrenaline driven state, you know, and trying to be super positive in front of Jackson. And I was like, it sounds like you got a little upset or looks like got a little upset over there yesterday. He's like, Yeah, I

Scott Benner 14:14
just see a younger person.

Mary 14:17
No, he's older. He's like, I don't know, maybe in his early 50s, late 40s. He has three kids, three boys. Interesting. I just I'm not used to delivering bad news. And I was like, You're a frickin doctor.

Scott Benner 14:31
He's like, I'm a pediatrician. I usually just tell you if they get taller, I'm like, look at this chart. See how they're growing on this thing? I gotta go to the next room now. See you later the lady. Oh,

Mary 14:42
yeah, no, it's like two seconds.

Scott Benner 14:44
Yeah. That's that's interesting. Might have is definitely not the right job for him. That's for sure.

Mary 14:51
I know and he wins like Best of Savannah every year.

Scott Benner 14:56
People are probably like, he's so empathetic. I'm not wrong, right? Like, it's nice for empathy but like, he, you're looking for somebody to like, present a bit of a, like a, I don't know, like a reasonable just comport yourself differently. Right. Um, I don't know what I'm trying to say like you shouldn't be.

Mary 15:16
Totally I mean, where I come from, you know, and the way I was trained like that is ethically inappropriate. And also like, you don't do that as a doctor in front of the

Scott Benner 15:26
child. Yeah, right. I mean, all right. Anyway, let's get past that, because we're not going to figure that out.

Mary 15:31
I know. So that I felt like I had to go into like, even more like superhuman mode to be like, you know, you are going to be just fine. You know, because Jackson was so scared. Yeah, we both were

Scott Benner 15:42
right. Let's forget that the person that you think of as knowing everything came into the room crying telling you what's wrong with you, because that's just very often is Jackson had any, like, repercussions from that? Or is it a moment that just got passed and pretty easily?

Mary 15:56
passed him pretty easily?

Scott Benner 15:58
It's a lot happening the next day, I would imagine probably took his mind off of it. How long were you in the hospital?

Mary 16:05
We were in the hospital. Three days, two nights,

Scott Benner 16:10
and you leave with technology are no no, nothing. Just needles.

Mary 16:17
Just needles, you know, typical, like mo with diabetes. Like here, we're just giving you what you need to stay alive. And like go Google everything. Good luck, you know,

Scott Benner 16:29
COVID diagnosis to right.

Unknown Speaker 16:32
Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:33
So did they limit people in and out of the room? Or?

Mary 16:37
No, he had been past that two week mark. Okay. So we were all right. But it's funny because the, the dietitian and all the doctors that and nurses that were in and out, they all taught us, you know, like everyone says they teach you to eat and then Bolus. And then they were like, there's a new endocrinologist here at the hospital that you're gonna see. And, you know, he does things kind of differently. He's gonna want you to Pre-Bolus and, um, but we're not going to teach you that. That way. My husband and I were like, what's the photo frame? That's fine. I was like, What the? I mean, okay, so you're gonna teach? So, I mean, at that time, we were just like, I mean, that makes sense. I mean, you don't know how much he's really going to eat so sure. But and then we didn't see the doctor for like, a month. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:42
that's what I was gonna say, right? If you didn't, it's not like you saw the doctor immediately. So they gave the hospital what, although it is kind of nice of them to say, look, we're gonna teach you one way, but at some point, you're gonna go to a doctor, and he's gonna talk about it differently.

Mary 17:56
Yeah, but I mean, I don't know, looking back. It's weird. It's just weird. It's like, well, I want to know, the new stuff. Like if it's new, there's like a new method to do it. That's like, help. What I want to know all

Scott Benner 18:10
about that, right. So. So in your note to me, you talk about mental health stuff, caregiver burnout, and a couple of other things that we're going to go through. So I'm going to start with you. I mean, it's it's been a year or so. Do you? Do you feel burned out already?

Mary 18:29
I did. You did.

Scott Benner 18:30
Okay.

Mary 18:32
Yeah. I mean, I, I'm, I'm like the person I'm, I'm in they're like, in a crisis. Awesome. Um, they're positive. I'm crushing it, but then I have, you know, a downtime after that, that is exhausting. Because I've just given more than I should, you know, and I, I definitely, I wouldn't say I got to the point of burnout, but I was very close to it, for sure. And you know, issues and my husband was diagnosed, and I have a four year old now. Um, it it's, it hasn't been until like, recently, really, that I feel confident, comfortable and like, centered in like, my role here in my my family. I mean, it's, it's just been the biggest upheaval ever,

Scott Benner 19:33
like, does it just feel like there's not enough time in the day, and then you don't have the energy and you sort of like, create that kind of fake energy to handle the thing and then you crash afterwards?

Mary 19:43
Yeah. And then there's like a checkout period, you know, like, I can't even think about, like, how many carbs are in this or I can't even like, like, have a conversation with anybody.

Scott Benner 19:58
I think I understand. And that lasted for how long?

Mary 20:05
I would say maybe like five months,

Scott Benner 20:09
about five months. How was that at the beginning? Or did it wait a little and then hit you

Mary 20:14
know, it it? It was, it definitely wasn't at the beginning because I was in like Rockstar mode, you know? So it probably a few months after that,

Scott Benner 20:27
okay. And when he was diagnosed you had your second was like three years old at that point. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. And you're working full time?

Mary 20:37
No, I had just started going back, like one day a week, I had been a stay at home mom for seven years. And I just started to go back to just like getting my feet wet again, because the kids were getting older, they're going to be at school full time. And like, I just I couldn't be at home anymore. You know.

Scott Benner 20:57
So you were just kind of embarking back on working when this happened? Did you? Were you able to keep that going? During the diagnosis? No, no, you're like, I'm back. I'm gone. Goodbye.

Unknown Speaker 21:09
I'm out. Peace out guys about a kid. You know.

Scott Benner 21:16
But you're back now. We're now wow,

Mary 21:19
you are so back now. I'm almost. Uh, let's see, I do about 25 hours a week now.

Scott Benner 21:26
Okay. And what's your training?

Mary 21:30
I have my Master's in Counseling Psychology. And I also have a degree in addiction counseling. Okay. Have you been licensed?

Scott Benner 21:42
Does that help you in your personal stuff? Or?

Mary 21:48
You know, to be honest with you know, I never really did until like, lately, you know, now I? I don't know, I it's just I don't know, I guess I just got more mature. After all this?

Unknown Speaker 22:04
How do you know don't say, how do you mean?

Mary 22:07
Like? Oh, I don't know, just being more like responsible with myself. And I guess yeah. Just like being more honest with myself about what I want. And what makes me happy and what doesn't? You know,

Scott Benner 22:28
it's interesting, isn't it? You can have a profession. And still, it's hard to apply the things in your own life.

Mary 22:36
Oh, absolutely. A lot of therapists are crazy, by the way. Sorry. All you people out there, like

Scott Benner 22:43
coming out for you. Or what do we mean?

Mary 22:47
Well, I mean, it's yeah, there's, there's truth to it, for sure.

Scott Benner 22:51
Gotcha. So it so you kind of get drawn to the profession, hoping to help yourself and then other people

Mary 22:59
100% at that back at that time.

Scott Benner 23:04
You broke up. Mary, are you there? Mary? What? Oh, you just broke up for a second back at that time. And then you disappeared?

Mary 23:13
Yeah. No, that's what it just back at that time? Absolutely. I mean, I was in my 20s wild and crazy, you know. So it turns out, I really like it. And I'm actually pretty good at it. So I really thoroughly enjoy my work,

Scott Benner 23:30
you should leave yourself a Yelp review that says I'm pretty good at it. So, so when? I mean, do you have? Do you have mental health issues at this moment with as as applies to diabetes? Are you seeing stuff with your kid? Or? No? Are you guys doing okay?

Mary 23:54
No, we're doing okay. I guess my only concern with with Jackson is he's, he's always been like an old soul. You know, he's a sensitive child. He's very intuitive. He's, he gets along with everybody. He you know, he's just he's a wonderful child. And I, I worry sometimes that he takes it to like the next level that he doesn't need to, whereas like, he's almost putting himself in this adult position. And I have to remind him a lot that this isn't your responsibility. This is for me to meet a deal but like with Luke, Luke is my other one. He's a maniac. Hilarious. He's just all over the place and like, Jackson gets very anxious at times. If Luke isn't close by, you know, if we're out and about somewhere or if I'm not holding Luke's hand, I just noticed that Jackson is it makes him nervous.

Scott Benner 25:07
Is that always her prior or just since diabetes? Since diabetes? Okay, so he worries about everybody.

Unknown Speaker 25:18
Yes, you have any anxiety?

Mary 25:21
Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's certainly gotten better than what how I used to be. I mean, I had a lot of like, postpartum anxiety. That's when it was really bad for me after both my pregnancies. But it's, it's settled down quite a bit.

Scott Benner 25:44
Did it happen naturally? Or did you do something to impact it? What your anxiety? Like, did you?

Mary 25:53
Did it happen?

Scott Benner 25:54
No, no? Did it? Has it been resolving naturally? Or have you been taking steps to do something for it?

Mary 26:00
Oh, yeah. I mean, I, when I was like, after I had my kids, I went on medication. And I have medication as like, like, as needed. Now, if you know, anything ever occurs, which it doesn't, but yeah, just getting back into, you know, healthier, saying, Who's that work? Like going to therapy going, you know, going for walks, spending more quality time with my loved ones, you know?

Scott Benner 26:36
I understand. I do, actually. How do you. So in your job, let's get away from you for a second in your job. If someone comes to you and says, I feel I think I feel depressed? How do you go about? Like, what are the steps you take to figure out the level of their depression? Or if they actually are depressed?

Mary 26:57
What does how long it was going on? And what if, you know, you're feeling depressed? Like, what does that mean? What does that look like? How like, what are you experiencing? So I'm looking for, you know, loss of interest in things, change in appetite, change in sleep, things like that. And go from there? If do all things started or triggered it, you know,

Scott Benner 27:29
do all of those things need to exist? Loss of appetite, a lack of interest in things that you were once interested in, like sleep? Etc? Do they all have to exist? Or could you just have bad sleep or just not want to eat? Like, etc? Like, what makes you think, oh, this person is depressed?

Mary 27:49
Yeah, well, those are, those are the main symptoms of a depressive episode. And there's periods of time that are that like coincide with those symptoms. So if you've had that, you know, the like, say, three out of the four symptoms for a period of two weeks, you know, then it might be like a, like a dysthymia. Or, you know, but if it's like 30 days, then you're probably in a major depressive episode. And I am pretty sure I'm right on the timing, I'd have to go back to my DSM, but I'm pretty sure that's what it

Scott Benner 28:25
is. Okay. How many people do you think, experienced this and don't realize it, and it's never an issue for them afterwards? Or does it persist? No matter? What,

Mary 28:38
it's such a good question. Um, there's so many variables to it, you know, like real clinical depression. I think that people know, and you know, I mean, some people just think, are can can live, I guess, and function. And like, you know, with the mood shifts, and it's, it's just normal for them. And they think that that's fine, if that's how they choose or don't, whatever. I mean, that's their choice. Okay.

Scott Benner 29:19
So, so sometimes, some people have it happened to them, and they can function with it, and then it passes. And then there are some people who fall deeper into it. Or break free of it, or I'm not sure how to put it actually, I'm not. That's why I'm asking.

Mary 29:37
You know, if, if left untreated. Yeah. I mean, it could it could go both ways. I mean, it could get worse. Or it could just pass like a major depressive episode without treatment. I mean, I don't I don't know if someone really just comes right out of that, right.

Scott Benner 30:01
And so it just it just kind of snowballs at that point.

Mary 30:05
Yeah. Or it'll, you know, like less than an intensity

Scott Benner 30:09
treatment can look like talk therapy. I don't know what what else would you like? What if you thought somebody was I don't know how they rank depression, but I think I've heard the words mild depression. So if you felt like somebody had mild depression, would you? I don't know, like, where did they start?

Mary 30:31
Um, I would definitely start with talk therapy, and do like education with the patient about it. And to really get a grasp and see, I want to look at family dynamics growing up, if there's been any, like significant traumas. And traumas can be big or small. And if there is an improvement with talk therapy, I'd refer from medication for a medication evaluation. To start to feel better, I see

Scott Benner 31:09
other people who take the medication for a time and then stop, or do they? Do they often have to stay with it?

Mary 31:16
I mean, you know, there's, there was just an article that came out recently about the use of SSRIs. And how they're really not that effective. I mean, a lot of people are on them for years. And years and years and have like, you know, some people have had complete life changes, and it's been wonderful, you know, and that's good for them. Some people go on and off it really? It really depends. But overall, I would say people I mean, everyone is so different.

Scott Benner 31:53
Yeah. Well, that's true. Okay, so this is all happened to you, right? The the kids diagnosed, you've gone through what you've gone through all of a sudden your husband's type two turns out is Lada. How have you and your husband been handling it? But between the two of you is have you had problems or? Oh, god?

Mary 32:16
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I it's just, it's just sad. We are we've decided to separate you know, to, to get divorced. I'm sorry. I didn't No, no, it's okay. It's actually, you know, it's not a bad thing. You know, I guess I'm trying to, like change the script of, like, divorce being horrible and awful. We've really, like grown apart, we have very different, like, beliefs on just a lot of a lot of things, you know, there were some issues prior to diagnosis, and then diagnosis happened, and it just brought us like, further apart, you know, because we were like working on our marriage. You know, we're trying date nights, and we were in couples counseling and, and, and then once Jackson was diagnosed, like, I just struggled so much with leaving him with, like, a babysitter. In my, just, my whole focus was on him and like, learning diabetes, and making him you know, and also, like, being a certain way with him that this is a big deal, but you're still a kid, dude. So like, you're gonna eat that cake at the birthday party. And we're gonna figure it out, like, you know, a I'm not super strict with Jackson like that. And over time, obviously, I've learned, you know, better ways to manage it. And I just took it all on. And in that, Keith and I just, we just got further and further apart. It was it and

Scott Benner 34:26
tough to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. That was difficult.

Mary 34:32
Yeah, I mean, and I have another child that like, was also there. My kids are my world, you know, like I it was just all about this. We have to, like, adjust to this now. And like, I wanted everyone I wanted to, like, keep a sense of normalcy in the house. You know, we're like, it's just, you know, like with you With live like, No, it's okay. We just have to, you know, Jackson just getting his shot or like if his alarm would go off Lubich Jackson, your sugar, you know, like, and it, it's just okay. You know what I mean? Like, what am I trying to say? Like, I didn't want it to be this huge catastrophic thing that's happening in our family. I just like what we have died, like diabetes is in our family now. And like, this is how we deal with it.

Scott Benner 35:25
We're trying to downplay it. Just yeah. Yeah, just kind of minimize its impact on everybody.

Mary 35:31
And like normalize it, in a sense.

Scott Benner 35:34
Okay, so while that's all happening, and so I don't know, the I obviously don't know the elements of your marital strife prior to this. But this was not something that he could have continued to do while you were doing that thing. You guys just sort of drifted. Was he not part of the diabetes? Learning?

Mary 35:54
He was and the one of our strengths is when like, we're, there's a crisis, we work well together. You know, I'm more of like, a feelings person. And like, I just have this intuition and whatever.

Scott Benner 36:10
Mary, I lost you. I'm sorry. I lost you again, intuition. And then you be blanked out for a second.

Mary 36:17
Yeah, it's just like, you know, this intuition and whatnot. And, and he's more like, what, what are the facts? What could go wrong? You know, more from that type of standpoint. And when working together, that can really be a strength, you know, we've been able to overcome a lot of things that way. Right? Same with diabetes. By the way, I finally got him to listen to juicebox. Because I was like this, you know, I need help understanding and conceptualizing this, because it's just hard for me the way my brain works, you know, right. So two heads together, you know, we were able, like to both understand it.

Scott Benner 37:01
Gotcha. Oh, so together, you kind of pick through it and figured out the diabetes stuff. Yeah, that's right. And it helped him I would imagine, it probably helps him day to day with what he's doing now.

Mary 37:11
Yes, it does.

Scott Benner 37:15
All right. Well, I'm so sorry that that's happening for you. Do you think it's it's a it's a definite thing?

Mary 37:22
Yeah, I do. And I don't like I said it, I don't want. Keith and I, at the end of the day, we still like really like each other and we really care about, we're just like, not good. We're good together anymore. And it's not like a bad thing. I don't know how to really describe it without being like, did not like, descriptive, and I don't really want that. I was,

Scott Benner 37:52
like, as little or as much as you want. That's fine.

Mary 37:55
Yeah. I mean, it's we're just saying like, we're getting unmarried, you know, like we have we have a great relationship. We work better together like this.

Speaker 3 38:06
How do you? I'm sorry, being

Mary 38:11
rather than like, in a marriage, there's just a lot of for some reason, it just doesn't work as well as it does on a friendship level, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 38:22
Okay, yeah. How do you imagine it working going forward? Will you live nearby each other or? Yeah, yeah. Mr. The kids will go back and forth.

Mary 38:32
Yep. I'll go back and forth.

Scott Benner 38:35
Okay. I'm just trying to figure out how and so and he understands as much about the diabetes as you do, and you guys work well together with its you don't think that'll be too much trouble with your son?

Mary 38:45
I don't, although we did start the Omnipod five. And he hasn't really like dove into that yet. So, but like, I don't have any doubt that like, he'll, he'll understand it and, you know, figure it out, if not better than what I've done so far. You know, like, we're good like that. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 39:11
Excellent. All right. Well, this is a bummer. But okay, Mary.

Mary 39:17
Congratulations are in order. We're good. It's good.

Scott Benner 39:22
I'll send up I'll send a gift.

Mary 39:24
Yeah, please. I mean, like, yeah, a housewarming gift. I mean, I already bought him a housewarming gift.

Scott Benner 39:31
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. All right. Okay, so how do you find managing Jackson's diabetes? Are you having the outcomes you're looking for? Are things going the way you expect? Are you still working on it?

Mary 39:44
I mean, it's always a work in progress. He's growing like a frickin weed. So there's a lot of that school you know, a lot of adjusting during school because they won't Pre-Bolus they're not comfortable doing that. Which is fine. You know, like, they obviously have other kids, they have to, you know, manage during the day. So

Scott Benner 40:16
are they not comfortable or they are, they don't want to be stuck to the timing of it.

Mary 40:22
I think it's both. Because again, they're coming from, like, get the pre meal sugar. See what he eats and calculate after.

Scott Benner 40:35
Okay? Premiums are, oh, that's how they're doing it. He's not even, it's not like he's getting the insulin and then eating, he's eating before the insulin.

Mary 40:43
He is. But the last year he had PE before lunch. So what was happening was after PE he, I mean, he'd drop and then eat eat. So it was like a really fine line of the insulin to give because he would still be like, coming down. So I mean, it just it took a while to kind of figure out what to do. I mean, if he was at like a certain number before gym, I'd I'd give him a little bump, you know, have them like, eat a couple of skittles or have like an honest juice, which is like eight carbs or something, you know, just to bump them up, because I knew he's gonna burn it right off and hold them steady through gym.

Scott Benner 41:34
And that was working. That worked. Yeah. What are your blood sugar goals?

Mary 41:39
I mean, it worked until it didn't, right. Blood sugar goals? I mean, I have my target my range 70 to 150.

Scott Benner 41:51
Are you making that most of the time?

Mary 41:57
On the on the five, I'm hitting it way better? On the dash? I mean, much. Not as much.

Scott Benner 42:12
Do you have stability? Or is there a lot of up and down?

Mary 42:17
You know, Scott, it really varies. There, I mean, there's some days, even weeks that he's super steady and great. And then there's other times where I mean, we're just on this roller coaster.

Scott Benner 42:33
And do you Pre-Bolus At home for meals. Yeah. And you see a better outcome then. Yeah, that's cool. Okay. I wonder if he has a lot of activity at school. That isn't helping him a little bit with the not Pre-Bolus thing.

Mary 42:50
Yeah, I mean, he is you know, he is very active. Because I mean, mac and cheese will you know, he eats with eats mac and cheese. Now, I don't even Pre-Bolus for mac and cheese. He could eat a huge bowl, and his sugar doesn't move until like an hour later.

Scott Benner 43:11
Right. But when it starts to digest, yeah, that he has it. I'm just I'm just I'm wondering how I mean what what a spikes look like at school when they're like literally bolusing after meals. To me that seems like a 250 blood sugar not Bolus until after a meal.

Mary 43:30
Oh, yeah. I mean, he or higher.

Scott Benner 43:33
Is there no way to get them to Bolus for half of it before he eats and then reassess? Well,

Mary 43:41
that's a good point.

Scott Benner 43:42
I mean, there's got to be a way to do that. But at least it's not. I mean, them saying we're not comfortable with it. It seems sort of like bold to me. Like Like, you're gonna drive the kids blood sugar up every day. And then we're just gonna manage it down again. Like every day.

Mary 43:58
Yeah. And some days he'll he would tank

Scott Benner 44:01
after they corrected. Yeah, yeah. Geez, that sucks. All right, you're using using the CGM? Yeah. And so you're able to see it during the day. So Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I would. I don't know. I'm not telling you. I really pressure them to do it differently. I would just say, look, you're you're creating an unhealthy situation for my son every day by doing it like this. So I mean, even he's on a I mean, he's on an algorithm now. Like you're you're also screwing with the algorithm like it because you're putting in food and not telling the algorithm that the foods there so it doesn't know what the thing because it just thinks that his blood sugar shoots up randomly and then wait, and then are they Oh, wait a minute, so your Bolus not bolusing. When he eats, he's going up 202 50 And then they're putting in the carbs. Yeah, that's why he's gonna get low later. Because the the algorithm thinks the carbs went in when you told it not an hour or 45 minutes prior. So, yeah. So it's both. So the algorithms going after the rise. Do you see what I'm saying? Like it sees, it sees a rise happened, he doesn't know why, because you haven't told it, there's carbs there. So it starts to jack up and push at the rise, trying to stop it thinking at first, though, it's just a small bump, I'm gonna come after it. And then as the rise gets more aggressive than the algorithm gets more aggressive, and now it's been aggressive for the entire time he's eating, and then you tell it, he's got carbs now. So you have insulin on board that it believes is for a rise that has nothing to do with carbs, and then it attacks the carbs that you put in. And that's why you're getting the low later. You have to tell it when you eat what you're eating.

Mary 45:56
Yeah, well, this was last year on the dash.

Scott Benner 46:00
So he was having an algorithm bumped from from that at least, okay, no, he was

Mary 46:05
on the dash. So the insulin would go in, like, as he was spiking up from lunch, and then we'd have to wait an hour. Before started coming down.

Scott Benner 46:19
Yeah, well,

Mary 46:21
you're coming up, right. He's, he's on the algorithm now. So this, you're coming up, like, you know, we have a meeting with the nurses. When I get back from Connecticut, and I have to figure out like, how, because we have to do it differently.

Scott Benner 46:37
Yeah, you have to impress upon them that this is not how this works. And because it will, it will confuse the hell out of the algorithm. If you Bolus 45 minutes after he eats and tell it that's when the food's going in. That'll really be a mess. Honestly.

Mary 46:53
Yeah. I mean, so what is it? So is it just the Pre-Bolus? Then, like, night before he eats, someone's gonna have to go to him or they were just walking him to the nurse last year? How

Scott Benner 47:05
old? Is he? Seven, eight. Do you think you guys can do it through text? Like you and hey,

Mary 47:15
maybe we we've been working on that. He just doesn't always remember to check his phone.

Scott Benner 47:22
Yeah, oh, no, you probably would have to text him. But, but I'm saying like, if you had a certain time of day, even if a timer went off on his phone, he was like, Okay, it's time to text my mom, I text her. Hey, we're getting ready to go to lunch. And you say, that's fine. You look at his blood sugar and tell him the Bolus a certain amount and he walks right to lunch with everybody else and starts to eat. Yeah, you know, that's how Arden did it forever. She would Bolus in the classroom before lunch. She would. Yeah. And we would do it by text. She never saw the nurse.

Mary 47:56
Yeah, I mean, it's such a disruption for him. How old was she when she started texting with

Unknown Speaker 48:03
you? Third grade.

Mary 48:06
Third grade, he's going into second but it's same age.

Scott Benner 48:10
Okay. Oh, he's older than I thought for that. Or am I? Yeah, we

Mary 48:13
he stayed. He was held back a year. And his younger, the younger grades. So

Scott Benner 48:18
I mean, if it's something I mean, all of the grade matters. I we started doing it when I thought of it. You know, like I didn't, I didn't have a podcast to listen to. So like I had to figure it out first. So I figured out what to do. When I figured it out. I figured out in the summertime between second and third grade. And so we put it into practice. Starting in third grade. Arden hasn't been to the nurse for a diabetes thing since the last day of second grade. Yeah, yeah. So but we did all through texting. But I don't know how I don't I don't see why this. I don't see why this wouldn't be okay.

Mary 48:52
Yeah, no, I mean, I guess. I like the idea of setting an alarm for him, because then he will. That's a good intervention for him to like a reminder. Yeah,

Scott Benner 49:05
that's what I did. I just, there was an alarm on her phone that it went off. It would be it would go off. She text me and say hey, what's up and then we would do lunch? Back then. Dexcom did not choose Hold on. When was that? 2000? I don't remember. There might not have been a Dexcom. Back then. Sorry. Is there a fire in the hotel? No. I'm not even sure if we had a Dexcom in the very beginning. So she would probably she would test her blood sugar. Tell me what her blood sugar was then we would Bolus and then in ensuing years, she told me what the CGM said because I couldn't see it. There was no share. And then And then, you know, as the technology improved and sharing came into, into being

Mary 49:55
did they Alright, so that they didn't have Have sharing back. Follow Jackson's number. Yeah, for

Scott Benner 50:06
years. We didn't have that. You know what that beeping is?

Unknown Speaker 50:11
Do you hear that? What the loud Bell?

Mary 50:16
Yeah, it's my text. It's my work texting.

Scott Benner 50:20
can you mute it? It's overwhelming you and you're talking. That's all.

Mary 50:26
Yeah, it should stop now.

Scott Benner 50:27
Okay, that's fine.

Mary 50:31
I'm so sorry Scott.

Scott Benner 50:48
Later when I'm editing this, I'm going to count the bells. And that's going to be the name of the episode like six bells or several miles or something like that.

Mary 50:57
Yeah, well, so I'm on this work text. And it's like 18 people are on the tags. And we have like the drug reps that come in every day, almost every day and bring lunch. So it's like lunchtime. And they're like, well, who's bringing in lunch today? What restaurant? Is it from?

Scott Benner 51:12
Goodness. Okay, yeah, no, so I'm sorry to go back. Yeah, the Dexcom share didn't always exist. So Sharon follow didn't always exist. There was a time where Arden had a Dexcom. And she's the only one that could see it. She had a receiver. It wasn't on her phone. And she used to wear it in this little pack around her waist. And it would, you know, she gets your blood sugar on it. And then she texts me and tell me what it was. And then we would do that. Prior to that she tested her blood sugar. She texts me the number and then we would Bolus off of that. So

Mary 51:45
yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna work on that with Jackson. I think that hill, I think he's totally capable of doing it. Practice. Extra reminder. Yeah, you can

Scott Benner 51:56
just practice at home, right? You can. You can just do meals from the other room say, Look, we're going to we're gonna Bolus your meal today. But we're going to do it over tax instead of standing next to each other. We're practicing for school. And yeah, you know, it's a viable way. And then you're there. Once you're done, you can go check and make sure everything happened the way you expect it. But if you're using Dexcom, and you can see his number on your phone, then you can you know, that that's a step. You don't have to worry about him getting the number wrong, because you can play it too. So I don't know, I would try something. I don't know. I just I'm not comfortable. It's not my kid and I'm not comfortable with what you told me. It makes me upset farm. So

Mary 52:34
yeah, I mean, it was the show last year with like, the ups and downs and the lows. And I mean, we never knew what we were gonna get every day. It's just

Scott Benner 52:43
it's not fair to him, either. He feels terrible. And you know, it's all over the place. So plus you don't he's not getting to be who he is. Because he's having these. You know, these bouncing around blood sugars are affecting, you know, his, his temperament. I would imagine everything else. Yeah. Are they back? Yeah, they're back. Okay. Well, we can wrap up if they're back. Is there anything that we didn't talk about? That you want?

Unknown Speaker 53:09
Jackson comes through. Hi.

Scott Benner 53:10
Hi. Hey, can you hear me? Yeah. Hey, Jackson. What's up, man? How was how was wiffleball? Good. Yeah. Excellent. Are you how loose? How long have you had the only about five months or so? Yeah. About a month. Are you liking it? Yes. Cool. That's very cool. I was talking to your mom about ways that you might be able to, to use it at school this year. So hopefully, it's something that'll work out for you. Yeah, yeah. How's your vacation? Going? Seeing your grandparents? Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's very nice. And your uncle's there too? Yeah. Well, it was nice to meet you, Jackson. Thank you. Yeah.

Mary 53:55
Yeah, I was telling him about your whole story, buddy.

Scott Benner 54:01
I know most of it now.

Unknown Speaker 54:04
Do you say yeah, yeah. All right. Well,

Mary 54:08
we switch Minecraft.

Scott Benner 54:10
Minecraft. Oh, we like Yeah. That's a it's interesting because the way you described him Minecraft fits a little bit. Yeah, everything is square see? Yeah, he likes that. Yeah, it's interesting. It really is. Cool. All right. Well, Mary this will be too much noise for a podcast so let's say goodbye. But But I really appreciate you doing this. I thought it was terrific. And you obviously shared a lot of stuff and with everybody which will help everybody and I know

Mary 54:42
I'm so I feel like it was horrible. And like I was all over the place and I'm sorry how you feel? Yeah, I do. I do. I don't know why. I

Scott Benner 54:52
I don't questions. I don't think you were all over the place.

Mary 54:57
I don't know. I just I just feel like it. wasn't my best.

Unknown Speaker 55:03
I don't know. It's gonna sound so weird. But anyway,

Scott Benner 55:06
all right, well, Mary, that maybe I'll just name the episode something like bum Fuzzles or something like that. And I don't know too much noise. Yeah, they don't come out for like six months. So I'll go back and edit it and I'll figure out what's there. And that's how we'll go. All right. All right. I really do appreciate you taking time out Eva vacation. It was really nice.

Mary 55:27
Yeah, of course.

Unknown Speaker 55:28
Thank you so much. The best of luck to you. Thanks so much. Bye

Scott Benner 55:38
a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I'd also like to thank Omni pod they are a longtime sponsors of the podcast, I can't thank them enough for being with me since the very first year 2015 I just want to remind you to go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox to support them as they support the podcast. And I mean, all that means is if you're looking for an omni pod fiber and on the pod dash, use my link as promised, I will put the very noisy couple of minutes that Mary and I spent as I think she was in her car at the end here if you want to hear it it's kind of funny. What else thanks for listening I appreciate that very much. Please tell other people if you liked the podcast and think they would like it as well. And don't forget to find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes terrific group coming up on 40,000 members absolutely a great place to find your community

Unknown Speaker 57:02
Okay, how's that

Scott Benner 57:04
all I'm not sure if it's there's still a noise I'm trying to figure out if it's the air conditioner winding down or if it's just something different

Mary 57:17
I can always go to another spot

Scott Benner 57:21
I don't know is there noise outside of the car

Mary 57:25
not really mean there's like cars going by but it's not oh

Scott Benner 57:29
no this is pretty consistent I wish you could hear this but you can't Yeah, I don't know what to say that it is the first day

Mary 57:44
I can just kick my kids out oh that is

Scott Benner 57:49
I'm sorry Don't be sorry you're fine

yeah Mary it was the traffic Believe it or not okay because once you once you get out of the park

Mary 58:08
can you guys go play some wiffle ball? I can't there's like a bad background noise out there they

Scott Benner 58:17
did you get to them so quickly

Mary 58:24
No, not yet. We'll go play some wiffle ball with Uncle net Thanks

the bats next to the bed over there

Scott Benner 58:47
has got a problem I'm waiting to see what happens when you close the door yeah

Unknown Speaker 59:07
yeah thank you

Scott Benner 59:22
okay, is how's that? Terrible. No, I just wish you could have heard it. It was just so funny. Like it literally just sounded like jet planes were flying past you. That was the cars I assume. Yeah. Because once you opened the door to the, to the car to your car, I could tell that your car was keeping out a lot of the noise but just not enough of it. So

Mary 59:49
yeah, I have a pretty loud, loud car.

Scott Benner 59:54
It's one of those cars you get up on the highway and you're like, I'm just gonna turn the radio up and we'll all talk when we get there. Yeah, totally

Mary 1:00:00
or like, Get out of my way to

Scott Benner 1:00:05
this sounds good. Thank you. Okay, good. I appreciate it. Sorry about that. Although your kids sound young enough that you were able to relocate them without any argument. They were just like, we're going outside now. Okay.

Mary 1:00:18
Dude, I know I've had like a Plan B because I was like, I'm gonna, like do this in my car. And my brother's here, watching them and I'm like, I like the wiffle ball bat and the ball ready. And I was like, you know, there's a lawn right up there. You guys can just go and

Scott Benner 1:00:32
well, that's, well, it's very so you're on vacation.

Mary 1:00:35
Yeah, I'm originally from Connecticut. Like, I grew up in Trumbull, Connecticut. And my parents are still here. And one of my brothers is still here. So every summer I put, you know, put my two kids in the car and we drive up and spend about a week or two up here and get away from that Savannah summer heat. I

Scott Benner 1:00:58
was gonna say to escape the heat in Georgia, right?

Mary 1:01:02
Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, in the winter up here, you're, you're like, you know, you get a blizzard or you can't it's just so cold. You can't go out well in the summer and Savannah, it's just so hot, you know?

Scott Benner 1:01:15
Well, I'm looking at our calendar right now. I call this my sadness countdown. And Arden is leaving for Savannah on the sixth. So yeah, 12344 and a half weeks from now isn't going to be super hot still by then. It is

#891 After Dark: Survivors Guilt

Ashton has type 1 diabetes and she feels that drug use in her extended family is impacting her health.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 891 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is interesting. It begins with Ashton, who is the type one experiencing a low blood sugar. So we sort of just chit chat through her Lo, until the show kind of starts off properly. It takes us a little bit of time to get to why she's here today. But once we get to it, my goodness, what a story. Today's guest is here because she believes that people in her extended family, their troubles and turmoil are causing her problems with her blood sugar. I don't want to ruin the surprise but very specifically, there seems to be a lot of drinking and drug use in her extended family. And anyway, I think we get to something after a while, which is why the title is after dark survivor's guilt and not after dark cocaine use. So you really got to listen to this will unfold. It's something else. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by Dexcom. Now Dexcom makes the G six and G seven brand new G seven continuous glucose monitoring system. Arden has tried the g7 we've ordered it and it's arrived waiting for her in a little box right there at college for her to use up her last two g SIX sensors before she switches over and she's very excited. Dex comm.com forward slash juice box check them out at my link when you do you're supporting the podcast

Ashton 2:16
blade right now but

Scott Benner 2:18
you're fine. Do you want me to? I can stop the recording till you feel better if you like.

Ashton 2:23
Oh no, I'll be okay. Okay. I just I just started to go down. So

Scott Benner 2:27
okay, where do you? Where did you where do you do? Well, I guess do you have a CGM? How did you know you're getting low?

Ashton 2:36
I have the FreeStyle Libre too.

Scott Benner 2:38
Okay, so did you scan it before you started here? Or did you feel though,

Ashton 2:43
I started to feel low, and I scanned it and I was 4.2 going straight down. So

Scott Benner 2:50
Gotcha. Where do you start to feel your lows?

Ashton 2:54
I actually start to feel them around four and a half. Like 4.5.

Scott Benner 3:00
I'm gonna just realize and I should probably translate those.

Ashton 3:06
Oh, yeah. Sorry. I mean, Canada.

Scott Benner 3:09
No, no, it's fine. So 4.5 isn't at one. And you feel low there where you are. Do you think yeah, what do you think you were dropping.

Ashton 3:18
I'm dropping pretty good. I didn't eat very much for breakfast as like that I thought I was going to eat. And my daughter had to go outside and play for a little bit first. So we went outside. And of course, I wasn't even thinking and didn't have enough food for breakfast. And then we went outside and played and I came in and I was like, whoa.

Scott Benner 3:45
It's happening faster than I thought it was. Right. So well. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll just take we're not going to start until you're feeling better. So you think you had your Bolus for a meal? Didn't need as much as you thought and then had activity that you weren't counting on?

Ashton 4:01
Yeah, that's exactly it. Is my daughter she she's one or she's 19 months now. So she'll bring us first thing in the morning every morning she brings me or her dad her shoes and outside.

Scott Benner 4:19
Oh, that's good. But now if would you how long ago did you drink this juice?

Ashton 4:26
I just finished it. So can you

Scott Benner 4:28
play a game and scan again and tell me where you're at? Yeah.

Ashton 4:41
Oh, of course my reading is right. I'm using my phone right now. My reading of course is rate in the way of Okay. I'm coming up on 4.5 Now,

Scott Benner 4:55
now. Do you feel low still?

Ashton 5:00
Yes, I still feel pretty low.

Scott Benner 5:03
What are your average blood sugar's during the day?

Ashton 5:08
Oh, gosh, I had them really good until I had my daughter. And since then it has been a complete roller coaster.

Scott Benner 5:17
It's bouncing up and down. Yeah. Do you? Do these lows feel different than they did when you were pregnant?

Ashton 5:25
Yes, definitely. When I was pregnant, I actually didn't feel the lows quite so severely.

Scott Benner 5:34
Is that because you're bouncing around as much do you think?

Ashton 5:37
I think so. I pregnancy was lovely. I hardly felt like I was diabetic because I didn't like I was level pretty much the whole way until near the end, then my insulin needs shot right up. Okay. But yeah, they're pretty steady throughout pregnancy. And before for a couple years before pregnancy, my a one C was 6.5. So around 6.5, it didn't get any higher than 6.8.

Scott Benner 6:14
How do you come up? How do you come to that number? Is it? Do you have a like? I guess my question is, do you have a lot of stability around 120? Oh, geez. Around

Ashton 6:27
20 is, I think eight

Scott Benner 6:31
is so so 120 is like Oh 6.7 6.7 for you? It's an A one? Yeah, then that'd be an A one save about 5.8. So let's go to like 145, which would be about a six, seven or an 8.1 is do you have a ton of stability there or are you high and then low and high and then low all day.

Ashton 6:51
I'm right now high and low, all day. And before pregnant, before being pregnant, I was steady. Like, I wouldn't, you know, shoot up a little bit, but I could get it back down and stabilize it. And I would only I don't know, once twice a week is where I would shoot up and but it always came down nice and easy. But it seems like with all the stress going on and everything, I shoot straight up, I take a little bit of insulin. And then you know something happens with my daughter or you know, I just get busy with life and I don't eat or I'll forget to take insulin or I'm just kind of riding the roller coaster. I've been talking with my endocrinologist and my diabetic educator lately. And we're trying to make a plan like my educator told me like, Well, why don't you wear a fanny pack and have your insulin on you all the time? And I've been trying that, but I'm still having complete highs and lows lately.

Scott Benner 8:13
So do you use are you injecting your insulin or do you have a pump?

Ashton 8:17
I inject right now. I've always been MD mi MDI, sorry, no, you're fine. I, I've been diabetic for 17 years. Okay. Almost 18 And I've been MD MDI the whole time. How old are you? I am 27. I'll be 28. January,

Scott Benner 8:38
you were like around nine years old and you're diagnosed.

Ashton 8:41
I was it was actually a month after my 10th birthday birthday that I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 8:51
Who is kind of interesting. This isn't even what we're talking about. And I'm just trying to chat with you until your until you feel like you're nice and stable. Yeah. So there's a disconnect between having the insulin with you when you need it. And and that causes some of the highs that then maybe later cause lows?

Ashton 9:16
Yeah, I'm thinking so like getting my daughter ready to eat her supper. And then I'll sit down, eat supper and I'm like, Whoa, what am I doing? I need to go take insulin. And so my timing of my insulin is way off right now.

Scott Benner 9:33
And that's where the bouncing around is coming from.

Ashton 9:36
I think so. Okay. All right. Well,

Scott Benner 9:41
that's it I mean, at least you know, what's happening and then I guess it's about correcting the

Ashton 9:46
Yeah, it's kind of a me problem at this point.

Scott Benner 9:51
It's gonna say Right, like, yeah, like starting a new habit or so. So what happened when you were pregnant? You just didn't have a lot of insulin need or you were just very focused on it.

Ashton 10:01
Um, well, I was very focused on it. But I honestly didn't have a lot of insulin needs until my third trimester. I like I could take two units for a plate of spaghetti in the beginning of my pregnancy. And that's actually how I found out I was pregnant was I could not keep my blood sugar's up.

Scott Benner 10:25
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So you didn't need to spend the money on the pregnancy test. And that's great.

Ashton 10:34
No, my endocrinologist. We were trying to figure out why kept going into these lows, and she was going to do adrenal testing on me. She was thinking maybe I had adrenal insufficiency or something. And then she called me the one day she's like, I never thought could you possibly be pregnant? And I thought about it. And I was like, You know what? I could probably be. Yeah. So we found out when I was eight weeks pregnant that

Scott Benner 11:05
Oh, no kidding. First, baby. Yes. Yeah. First one. Congratulations.

Ashton 11:11
We weren't planning but we weren't preventing either.

Scott Benner 11:17
Yeah, that's so that's about how that goes. I think a lot of the times, yeah. Just tell me if you feel okay. And we'll start. Although I'm feeling a lot better now. Better. Are you okay, for keeping this bit of the conversation in the final show? Word would you prefer? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Oh, cool. All right. Well, in. I mean, I feel like people know you a little bit. But go ahead, introduce yourself very quickly. Usually, I would tell you before we start recording, you don't need to use your last name. And, you know, just in you already told him told us a lot about yourself. So I guess just tell me your name, and then we'll keep talking.

Ashton 11:52
Okay, if my name is Ashton, I'm from Northwest Alberta, Canada. Um

Scott Benner 12:03
it's it Northwest. Yeah. Do you already said how long you've had diabetes and when you were diagnosed and everything so Alberta?

Ashton 12:08
Yeah. I guess I could add that my dad is a diabetic type one diabetic as well. He was diagnosed. seven years, eight years before me. Oh, no kidding. So yeah, I was three when he was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 12:26
Do you know about how old he was at that time?

Ashton 12:28
Oh, he would have been it was. It was actually on my parents wedding night. That from all the cake and booze and whatever. He got really sick and had to go into the hospital that night. I'm gonna say he was around 2728.

Scott Benner 12:47
No kidding. And is there any other like type one or autoimmune stuff in your family line?

Ashton 12:55
No. Well, my grandma on my dad, like my dad's mother and her mother. So my great grandma. They both had thyroid issues a little bit like, I don't that they never really told me. But what was that? But yeah, they had some thyroid issues.

Scott Benner 13:16
Okay, so then Yeah, so there's something going on. But you're so do you have you ever heard the story from your father like in hindsight that he think it was Did he can he see that it was coming on and he just that Oh,

Ashton 13:30
my dad thinks he was diabetic from the time he was a young child, because he would get this He told me he'd get this awful feeling and he would just need to run around and you know, burn off what he figures with burn off the shoulder. And he was always sick. My grandma was constantly taking him to the hospital. Even couple years before he would get so sick, he couldn't move, hardly go to the hospital. Nothing nothing. And I don't remember Oh, I guess it was just because he was the doctor figures because he would go home after work and he always would drink rum and coke. And the doctor figures that rum and coke kinda would balance them out at the end of the day.

Scott Benner 14:30
I don't know I should if rum and coke fix type one diabetes and don't you think no.

Ashton 14:36
Like for the months up leading up to his diagnosis getting? Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:43
I mean, that's strange. I mean, listen, I I'm not a doctor, but you can't stay alive for 20 Some years with type one diabetes without insulin. So maybe he was like, I mean, something sounds like it was definitely happening with his health for sure. And

Ashton 14:57
yeah, he he doesn't think die. Diabetes unnecessarily, but he thinks there was some autoimmune trigger that happened when he was younger and it just kind of snowballed.

Scott Benner 15:11
I guess that's interesting. I mean, it's, it's I mean, it's, it's odd. And it's interesting for sure. Okay, so tell me a little bit about why you wanted to come on the show.

Ashton 15:22
Okay, I wanted to come on, because I have some family members then that are addicted to cocaine. I'm so growing up my family, it like we're all really close. My dad, his brother's two sons are my two cousins were the only three kids on that side of the family. So we were always really close. My mom watched my two cousins all the time. And they were more like my brothers. And one of them got addicted to cocaine at 16 years old, I believe. So how long ago was that? That would have been about 15 years ago, okay. And so we struggled with him. And my dad's cousin, he's closer to me and my cousin, sage, the one who was addicted to cocaine. And he was also addicted. So I had two cousins that are addicted. So we were dealing with that. constantly worried about them. And now my we're not married, but I call my husband, his brother, who I've known for 20 years close or close to it. Has, he is addicted to cocaine as well. And it's just we find it pretty hard. Dealing with it because it's like my brother, and then my brother in law being addicted to

Scott Benner 17:11
a lot of people that you care about.

Ashton 17:13
Yeah. And now that we have our daughter, I have no siblings. And so and his little brother are my two siblings, basically. And then Tom, only my, my husband, Tom only has his brothers.

Scott Benner 17:35
Ashley, let me say something before we keep going. You probably shouldn't say other people's names. Oh, sorry. Don't worry about it. Don't I'm just so I'm gonna go back later. And I'll remove. But like, Okay, moving forward. My cousin. Yeah, my brother and my. Yeah. Sorry, no, no, don't be.

Ashton 17:58
So now with our daughter having our daughter here. We wanted them to have we wanted her to have her uncles. And we were all we're both my husband and my families were all really tight knit families. So it meant a lot of a lot to us that our daughter was going to have her uncles. And they just really haven't been a big part of her life or anything. But relating that to the diabetes. So we say get a call from my brother in law. And he's find some reason to get mad at you. And then he will not leave you alone. And he'll just go on and on and take deep digs at you and it shoots my blood sugar rate up. As soon as I see that he called me or texted me and he wasn't in a good my mindset. And my blood sugar would still shoot straight up. And I think that's half of my roller coaster too, is I get a message from my cousin or my brother in law. And I know that they're in a bad way. My blood sugar shoots straight up. So I take insulin to try and bring it down and everything but it just I'll come down and then he'll say something that'll piss me off and I'll shoot right back up.

Scott Benner 19:42
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is it a mixture of anger and sadness? And adrenaline? Or?

Ashton 22:47
I think it's anger? I think yes, I think it's all three of those things. Because I don't know I get so worked up, I will start just shaking and like ready to punch a wall? Almost.

Scott Benner 23:02
Tell me Tell me. I mean, what what is it about? I mean, obviously, let me start my thought over. Obviously that's upsetting, right? Like your loved ones that are struggling with something, it's upsetting. But they're not you and they're not your they're not your husband, and they're not your kid. So when I want to understand, like, what happens when you are kind of faced with their problem? Is it like what happens inside of you that you care so much that it's affecting you like that?

Ashton 23:36
I don't know. I think it's just the fact that I grew up with them all. And I know, I know them as people, the people, they are not the addict. I know who they can be without the addiction. And I think that is part of what works me up and the fact that I can't do anything.

Scott Benner 24:02
Okay. So a feeling of helplessness and and then that feeling that that they're wasting their life for and then you feel badly about that. I imagine.

Ashton 24:16
Yeah, well, and another reason I feel so badly about it is because when I was in end of high school there, I was about 17 The first time I tried cocaine and I had done it on and off for four or five years. And I never really got the addiction to it. I mean I I would go out and do it for fun and whatever. But I could go months without doing it. And then they do it a couple times and they get addicted. And I'm also very upset with myself. You Because I remember both of them would say, don't tell my girlfriend you saw me today. Don't tell me don't tell them I was here. Don't tell them this. And I just kept my mouth shut because they, the girlfriends didn't ask me anything. So I just kept my mouth shut and kind of almost protected them. And now, yes, it really bothers me now that I, I feel like for 10 years, I basically lied for them.

Scott Benner 25:39
I see. And now and now their situation is so bad off that you almost feel like you're a party to it.

Ashton 25:48
Yes. And I mean, I'm not in my auntie and uncle situation, or my father in law's situation, or I'm not the like, I'm not my husband situation where it's his brother. Or, and, or sorry, my cousin is like my brother. So that really gets to me. And then my cousin's little brother has also started.

Scott Benner 26:22
What is going on in Alberta? When they say it's not when they're saying when they say it's snowing there? I thought they meant like, you know, both both. Yeah, goodness. So tell me a little bit about everybody's background, like just generally speaking, is it? Is this a? Does it start as a party thing? Does it go from drinking to cocaine? And then some? Yeah,

Ashton 26:53
I would say I would say it's a party thing. But my cousin, so in my family, there is addictions all over the place, mostly alcohol. But there's cigarettes and drugs. And sorry, my cousin had a learning disability. Okay. And his dad was pretty hard on him growing up. So I don't know if that was his way of get escaping from his father and how hard his dad was on him growing up. Because that's the other thing. My dad and my uncle lost their brother, when my cousin who is addicted to drugs has when he was born. My father and uncle lost their brother due to I don't know the story. But I hear he was murdered by bad people.

Scott Benner 28:10
Do you think that was drug related as well?

Ashton 28:13
See, I don't know. Because from what my dad has told me, my uncle was a thief. He just stole stuff just because he got off on it. Okay. And so it's hard to say if it was he stole from the wrong person, or it was drug related, or they don't really talk about it. I think it hurts them quite a bit to talk about it. And we, me and my cousins, we do ask once in a while, but we don't cry about it.

Scott Benner 28:50
So is this? Well, is it systemic through your family? Is it systemic through the area? Like we, like we have conversations like this, there's obviously other other afterdark episodes, people come out and talk about, you know, heroin, and they're like, oh, where I live? It's everywhere. Like they talk about that. And so, I mean, it's like, I guess where do I start? Like these people you're talking about? Do they work?

Ashton 29:15
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, everyone goes to work. And my cousin, he, our, he just went back to work. He's actually been sober for two and a half, three months now. So he just went back to work, but he got to the point where he had lost his job and was sitting at home for months and got depressed and he is best friends with my brother in law, too. And my brother in law got really bad. He would do the drugs and hallucinate and telling us his girlfriend was fake. And I don't know what how happened. I haven't had a chance to talk to either of them about it. But something happened where my brother in law had to freak out. And that's what caused my cousin to start. Decide he needed to get sober.

Scott Benner 30:18
So something happened so crazy that one of them was like, I'm done with this. Yeah.

Ashton 30:25
And my husband and brother in law, they lost their mother when they were 10 and 12. Okay. So I don't know if that's where my brother in law's problems stem from? I think he didn't deal with it the same way my husband did. Okay, and is there

Scott Benner 30:50
a lot of poverty? or No? Where do you? How do you think of how do you think of these people? Do you think of them is? Middle class do you think of them is, you know, middle class, middle middle class people who are making a reasonable living like, do they own a home? As an example? Yeah.

Ashton 31:09
My brother in law, he owns a home in the so we live out in the country. He owns a home in the town close to us. But he was lately he's been struggling with bills and everything. So he actually got the opportunity to rent his house out. And he moved back out here with his dad. My father in law

Scott Benner 31:36
is pardon. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.

Ashton 31:41
Oh, I was just gonna say, I think like we everyone makes decent money like yes, hard times right now. But everyone has enough to live and it just goes around our area. It's just stupid. Like, I could walk down the street, and probably point out seven people who I've seen dude, cocaine.

Scott Benner 32:06
If Ashley, if I looked at them, would I know? Like just looking? Could I make a snap judgment? Or? Or is it kind of hidden?

Ashton 32:15
I'm with my cousin. It is hidden. With my brother in law. It's fairly hidden. But you can tell when he's been, you know, he went and partied all night last night. By looking at him. You could just tell his eyes are just huge, but droopy. And his face just will look gray and just basically like deaths,

Scott Benner 32:45
okay. I don't want to know where they work. But what kind of worked the people in your area? Like what kind of work is done in that area? I guess. A lot of oil

Ashton 32:57
field. Okay. Like my husband? Is it Equipment Operator building the leases and whatnot. My brother in law's an equipment operator. My cousin is an equipment operator. Mostly working in oil field, but they do some for farmers and stuff and they do reclamation where they put everything back to the way it was before they started working there.

Scott Benner 33:31
Okay. Hard work. Long hours outdoors, that kind of stuff.

Ashton 33:36
Yeah. I would say 14 hour days minimum. Okay. No, most days, not every day. But most

Scott Benner 33:44
days. It's the kind of job where back in the day, decades ago, it was like go to work. Then we go to the bar kind of thing. Yes. Okay. And now we're going to the bar we're drinking but we're also doing coke. Yeah. Okay. And, and so tell me if you don't mind. You said you did it as well, when you were younger. So yep. Tell me the attraction for you back then.

Ashton 34:15
Honestly, for me, it was just the fact that, you know, once I was feeling drunk, I could do a bomb. And I would have my together again, wouldn't feel so drunk that I needed to go to sleep.

Scott Benner 34:36
So that you keep drinking.

Ashton 34:38
Yeah, basically. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:41
Do you consider yourself an alcoholic?

Ashton 34:44
Um, I used to when I was, you know, from the time I was 18 till I was 21 I would say probably three or four times a week I would Have a drink?

Scott Benner 35:01
Blackout drinking or just

Ashton 35:03
No, no, no, I I've actually only been blackout drunk once in my life. And never again.

Scott Benner 35:10
What what do you think at that early age? I mean, listen, this isn't like, you're obviously not the first teenager to drink, right? But yeah, what do you think how

Ashton 35:19
and where I am? 18 is the legal age. Okay,

Scott Benner 35:23
but what? What drives you to it? Is it boredom? Is it fitting in? Is it about, like, a loosening of your attitude? Like, do you know? Can you even know even looking back?

Ashton 35:37
I would say, um, you know, socially. As kids, we'd all oh, let's go out to the bush and start a fire and have some drinks. And boredom. Like you say boredom Thurs? We're in northern Alberta. Like, of course we can do. There's tons of things to do. But everything seems to cost so much. So to to us as kids going and buying, you know, a case of beer and going out and having a fire with all your friends in the bush was it was just, it's a thing that has, like, my parents did it as kids. It's just

Scott Benner 36:23
stuffed holidays around here. Yeah, like local tradition. Almost. Yeah. Yeah. And it builds on itself, then, like, yeah, meaning that, um, meaning that like you, your family does it, and then somebody brings it up, and then happens again, and then your kids do it. And it doesn't seem that wrong to your parents, because they did it. Because even when you're talking about your I don't know if you know this, but it's interesting. You're incredibly upset about what's happened to the people in your life. And you also feel a little responsible. And at the same time, when you speak about it, like the act of using or drinking or anything. There's no contempt in your voice at all. Like you. I think that there's it sounds to me, like, there was there's a wish that, like, Wouldn't it be great if there was a way that we could drink and do some coke, but it wouldn't ruin anybody's life? Am I wrong? Or do I have that?

Ashton 37:25
Well, not the coke part. But I wish. I don't know, I'm not much of a drinker anymore. Okay, since I since I have my daughter, I think I've probably had 10 drinks in total in 19 months. And so I don't, I'm really scared to be hung over with a toddler too. So that's part of the reason, but I just, I don't know, I wish because I know a lot of people who they can't just go sit down at supper and have one drink. Okay, it's, it's you got it. They'll they have they drink to get drunk, they get drunk, they drink to get wasted, basically. And there's so many people around my area that are like that. And I wish it was different. I wish we could go sit down for supper and just, you know, have one drink with our friends and go home. But usually that ends up you know, you have two or three you're feeling good at supper. Well, let's go find something to do afterwards. And I just I guess I wish the people around me could understand that a sober life has been so much more rewarding. Yeah, and easy. I, my brother in law and my cousin, I can't imagine waking up every morning feeling that complete regret. And just feeling disgusting every day. But then doing it again. Yeah, and doing it again. And again.

Scott Benner 39:15
Because that's what you know. Exactly. Right. And see, it's interesting to me. Like when you say like, well, it fills the time or people drink to access or whatever. And this is just what we do. Like, while you're saying that well, and it wouldn't matter if it was you. If anybody said that. I start thinking of all of the other things that I enjoy doing, or the things that I wish I had time to do that I don't even have time to do. And it would never like in a million years it wouldn't occur to me to drink and get drunk. So that I couldn't exist. Like um, but but that's me, right so for other people, it's it's completely opposite. And and you do wonder How many little things stack up before you don't have a chance to have bigger dreams or other ideas? Like what, you know, your parents are hard on you, you live in a depressed area, you know, you're growing up to work in an oil field, like like that kind of like not that there's anything wrong with working in an oil field, but there doesn't feel like there's any other possibility. You're not like, well, I might I've, maybe I'll work in this oil field if I want to, or maybe I'll do these things. And it's just this feeling of like, This is it. Like, I'm here to do this drink. I'll make a baby, that baby will grow up work in this oilfield drink and like, this is what we do. It's not true, by the way. But no, yeah. You feel though, you know?

Ashton 40:46
Yeah. And I don't like for my brother in law. He lost his mom at a very young age. And his aunties, and everyone stepped up. But he's never really had that person to go to to talk about things like, am I stuck in the oil field?

Scott Benner 41:12
Well, that's even if you had somebody to talk to. They're so isolated in this bubble, that, like, you ever heard the saying that, like, you don't know if it's a saying or not, but you can't imagine things you don't know about? Yes. Right. So somebody has to be there. There has to be some example for you to say, Oh, well, I guess I could go do this as well. That's an actual thing that exists. You know, my son just graduated from college. And he's been going around and meeting with people and having conversations with people who work in different like industries, so that he can even understand how his degree applies to the world. So he's got a degree, and he doesn't know what he doesn't know. And so if you don't I mean, if you Yeah. So if you live in a rural area, where the business is pretty specific, I don't know how you're supposed to imagine what's happening right now in I don't know, Billings, Montana, or Atlantic City, New Jersey, or what people do for a living in Miami or Austin? Like, how do you imagine that if you don't know somebody that can explain it to you? And you don't know anybody who's ever gotten the hell out and gone and done one of those things? So there's no storytelling that to help you along? I guess that's, I don't know. Like, I don't know. I'm just talking. So yeah. Does that make sense to you?

Ashton 42:42
It does, yes. Because the other thing around this area that I've noticed, and I'm guilty of it, too. The friends we grew up with are kind of the ones you stick with. Yeah. Most of our lives, like I mean, I of course, I've even in the last year or two, I've gained friends from different towns and stuff. But we all went to the same high school, we all live within 3040 kilometers of each other. And we just, and that's the one thing that we've been trying to tell my brother in law, you need to get away from these people, you need to find someone else. Like we've offered her many times, you know, come out with us, we'll go for a quad ride or back, or, like, just come hang out with us instead of with the same people all the time. Yeah. And, or, you know, even my girlfriend, she she's got really bad anxiety and is having trouble making friends with and she just had a baby, and she's having trouble making friends. So, while we tell her, I tell her, well, let's go to this playgroup that they're holding out here, and maybe we can meet some people out there or it's kind of the same with my brother in law. And my cousin trying to tell them like there is more than just these 10 people out here

Scott Benner 44:19
Yeah. And then you can you can kind of have that feeling like why don't want to go meet those people. Those people are dorks or whatever, like they don't they're not cool like I am or they don't they're not interested in the things I'm in. But I think that those attitudes are probably mostly just you people protecting themselves well, I think what they really think is I don't want to I don't want to drag my coat up as to this playgroup. You don't I mean, and like, you know, yeah, I have all these people judge me, and you know, blah, blah. Like I think that kind of when you when you isolate yourself like that, you can isolate yourself for reasons you tell yourself, but there's probably other reasons you're actually doing it as well. And, and so, so you kind of find yourself in your In your circle, your I guess you kind of process through it already like you did it when you were younger, you're not doing it. Now you have a family, you're like building and you're like, hey, like everybody, like come over here with me where there doesn't have to be craziness and we can just live. But you can't get them to kind of jump on the other side of the fence with you.

Ashton 45:21
Yeah, it's. And I think that might be half of why I get so worked up and so upset about the situation is because I would have been in the same position as them. Yeah, I would have been right there with them. But I found this amazing guy, I started looking after my blood sugar's like, I went into DK over 10 times in my life. I've been in a coma, I've had my shins drilled through in order to get an IV and to me. And when I was about 22 years old, I puked for so long that my stomach lining came up.

Scott Benner 46:16
These are from like, DKA and not not taking care of yourself,

Ashton 46:19
not managing the stomach lining where I brought that a little bit of that up. That was actually from cocaine.

Unknown Speaker 46:27
Okay,

Ashton 46:29
I went out with my cousin. And I did some IR, I actually probably did more than I'd normally would have done. And I came home at midnight, and I puked until about eight in the morning. And I told I called my boyfriend to come get me. He brought me into the hospital. And I ended up being in there for a week. And he came to see me every day after work, he'd come sit with me in the hospital until he had to go home to bed. And I think that's what made made it click was he's not out there doing drugs. Why did I just go do this? And now I'm putting him through seeing me this ill in the hospital.

Scott Benner 47:20
And interesting to me is like the descritto Excuse me. Sorry, I did a bunch of coke before. I'm just kidding. Hold on.

What is interesting to me is that is that I mean that description of like the vomiting, right as an example. Or other things that you know, drinking, drinking, drinking, being so sick afterwards, if I said to you, across the street from your house is a lot of fun. But everybody in the house has the flu. And when you leave, you're gonna have the flu for six days. Would you say I'm not going there if I'm gonna get the flu? Yeah, but if I said you like, hey, next door, there's a bunch of coke and booze and you're gonna be incredibly sick afterwards. But it'll be a lot of fun. You'd go Alright, well, let's do that. That's so funny to me. Like, because the end result is, is feeling poorly. And for so that. So there's some other aspect to it. Right? There's some, you know, I don't know if it's addiction or what the other aspect of it is. I mean, imagine it's probably addiction. But somehow you like you had such a bad experience. You broke free of it. But now you're saddled with I don't know if you realize it or not. You have survivor's guilt. Like you got out.

Ashton 48:41
You know, I've never actually thought of it like that.

Scott Benner 48:44
Yeah, you got away from it. And now you feel responsible and guilty that you can't get everyone else out of it.

Ashton 48:52
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, that's, yeah. I've never thought of it like that. But no, you're 100%. Right.

Scott Benner 49:00
You know, the problem with that is, you know what the answer to that is, and it's tough is that you can't help those people. They have their own experience. They have to have their own vomiting, their stomach lining up experience, or something that's going to snap them out of it. And the truth is, those things may not come together. Honestly, you could have had your stomach lining experience and not had your boyfriend. And you might not have been your dog. Yeah, you might not have snapped out of it. Like it might have just been a confluence of different things in your life, that you were able to kind of stop and see all at once. And then those impacts of all those things together. were stronger than your desire to party. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, like your moment of clarity might not come to everybody, and you certainly can't make them have it.

Ashton 49:55
No, and I've actually been getting better with realizing Not lately. You know if my brother in law sends me a text and this, I know when there's something up, he will just text me and all he'll say, is Ashton in the texts? So then I'll just immediately say, what what do you need? What do you want, and then he'll go off. And I'll say, Well, I'm sorry, I can't help you. And I'll just, if I have to, I'll put my phone in another room and let him phone, let them text and just kind of ignore it. And my cousin isn't so bad that way. He knows. He knows what I've gone through my whole life. And I think deep down, he doesn't want to bother me with his problems. And, but my brother in law, he I'm, he talks, he'll go through everyone, he will call everyone he can think of, to go through the same circle about my life. I'm done doing this, I'm done doing drugs, I need to get my life back, I need to get my girlfriend back, I need to do this. And about every week or two weeks, it was the same thing over and over again. And I had to get to the point where I just said, You know what? Sorry. You know what? You do this all yourself? Like, I can't be there to help you. All I can tell you is we don't like you. We, we love we love you. But we don't love the addict.

Scott Benner 51:38
Do you? Consider telling them that they need to get help? Like, were you? Are you not interested in talking to them again? Like,

Ashton 51:46
oh, no, we thought he lives. So my father in law lives through the bush like to it's a two minute walk through the bush to my father in law's house. And my brother in law is now staying at my father in law's. So on his good days, we just don't bring it up, we let him have his good day. But on his bad days, I will tell him like get out of my yard. Or, you know, I can't deal with this. Today, I've got my daughter to deal with having a bad blood sugar day, whatever. And he is usually pretty good with backing off when you tell her mean, you need the space. It's hard, but

Scott Benner 52:29
it's hard to hear. But it's that that sort of a problem, like you see to the level that they can't handle it. Right? You can't handle it either. It's not it's not a thing. Any one person can just sort of shoulder and make go away. It's not like it's not like if he could throw his problems onto you, he'd suddenly stopped doing coke, he just be more unencumbered and be like, well, now I can really party because I'm not worried about all the other problems. It's not like that, that conversation that those people have with you about, oh, I'm gonna stop and this is gonna happen. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's not really they might want it to happen, but it's not going to it's no different than when someone comes to you and says, that's it for me. I'm done. I'm on a diet. You know, like, all right. Like,

Ashton 53:15
yeah, I'll see you when I believe.

Scott Benner 53:18
I heard that Arizona six months ago, they greatly so it's a it's a human. They're caught in a loop. And it's it is a pretty human thing. I think that's why a exists and and similar programs for drugs, and why people go to rehab, and things like that. Like, do you think that? I mean, is there locally supported rehab that they could go to? Oh, yes,

Ashton 53:45
we have. So

Scott Benner 53:48
business where you're at with this? Oh, yeah. There's a Walmart in a rehab next to it, right.

Ashton 53:55
I don't know why there's not more around here, honestly. Because we are like, from just from the experiences in the last year that we've had with them. It seems like they are just overrun with people, okay. And my cousin, my auntie and uncle actually paid for rehab twice for him. And each time, the first time he didn't even make it there. The second time he got outside and decided no, I can do this myself. I'm done. I'm not going and that's the other thing they need to want to go. Yeah, right. My my brother in law, we've had a man that deep talks twice now. And someone goes and picks him up. We don't know who this person is because he will tell us. I need you to drive me so my truck isn't there so I can't leave. So you know, my father in law or my cousin and took him in, brought him there. And all of a sudden, two days later, he's out. And he's got his truck again. And we asked him who picked him up? And he won't tell us. He says a friend, that's all he says, is a friend. And so he's just not quite ready, I guess to take to do the work, I

Scott Benner 55:23
can't matter to you, though. You know, they mean that you can't be your problem. If Yeah, you know, if this was your kid, or your, or your kids father, then okay, then you have like a, it's I mean, it's a tough thing to say. But there are points in life when, if a family members dragging you down, you know, you're I don't know if you've ever sometimes people drown. And the people that go to save them get pulled under by them. Yeah, there's a panic that happens during drowning. And they can't stop and they end up drowning both people. And this sounds so much like that. Just like they're in a situation that is so terrible. And they just like, they're gonna pull you back into it. Like, that's my fear, as you're talking actually, is that sent me an email in a year and say, Oh, God, I did coke. And I'm not taking care of my baby. And I just I went to help my friend or something. And then everyone was there. And like, you don't even mean like, it's if I was you. I don't know your situation, I would pack up and leave. I really, I really would. I'd moved I'd move somewhere else.

Ashton 56:38
Well, I would if I didn't have such a great support system where I'm at? Because yes, I do have those two, pause. And the third one was dabbling a little bit, but he's not. I don't know. He doesn't seem like he's addicted yet. And like you say, I can't do anything about it. It's his life. And I've come to that point now. Where if they call, or someone tells me Oh, yeah, your cousin had a slip up, or whatever. I'm just like, okay, like, I'm upset about it for 510 minutes. And then it's done with because my grandma was actually the one who told my grandma was actually the one who told me because I, one day was having a really hard time dealing with that with the fact that they were all addicted. And I told my grandma everything. And she said, Well, Ashton, you can't do anything about it. Here. You're just gonna worry yourself twice? For No, for no reason. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 57:53
I mean, you have this baby. And here's your own thing. You have diabetes. And I mean, listen, of all the things that somebody's ever written to me about, like, why I want to be on the show. You're like, well, I'm, I have diabetes. And I'm, and I love people who are have addiction problems, and it's hard. And it's just while you're talking, the one thing that occurs to me is that because you are a person who grew up in that bubble, and you've been through it, like your description of using, like alcohol and Coke, as a younger person was disturbing to me. You were like, Hey, I just drank and then you just did some coke. So you could keep drinking? Like I Yeah, it's not a judgement at all. I just want you to understand that from my perspective, that's insane.

Ashton 58:42
Well, I I totally agree with you now that I'm in a good headspace. And

Scott Benner 58:48
but But what I'm saying is that when you're evaluating other people in your life, there is a section of you, that just sees that as partying. Like there's like, there's a part of you that at some point, thought that made sense. And I wonder if that part of you, keeps you from assessing what's happening to other people completely, honestly, because then you'd be assessing yourself. Like when you look at them, and they are a disaster. I don't know if you can say that to yourself, because then you're kind of saying, Oh, God, I used to be a disaster. I don't know. Like, maybe you can. But I just wonder if like, I don't know, sometimes, like, almost like, I'm the worst person to ask about what's in the podcast, because I'm too close to it. Like there are people that help moderate the Facebook page, who if you said to them, like I'm looking for an episode about this, they'd be like, bang, that's this one. If you asked me that, I'd go. I mean, I remember having a conversation about that, but I don't know. And so I wonder if like, because this is a world you live through, if you're not a little incapable of judging it as honestly as it needs to be judged.

Ashton 59:56
Like well, and you're completely right. err, and tell, I would say the last three, four months, I was talking, we, me and my husband were talking about the two boys that are having their trouble. And I just said to Tom, like, that was me. Eight years ago, yeah, I would have been there, I would have been right where they are with nothing. Like I shouldn't say nothing, because they do still have their vehicles in their houses. But they are barely scraping by to pay for those. And I said to Tom, I wouldn't have this beautiful child that I have. We actually just built an acreage on his dad's land. We've been in the house for a year now. And I said, like, look at all of this, look what I have. And if this was eight years ago, that I couldn't even imagine any of this. Right, I thought I thought I was gonna be going down that same path. And but the last few months, I really looked back on how I was, and how growing up growing up was. Or not growing up, but like, the teen years? Hard? Yeah. And like, I always wonder, would it be different if, you know, I went to a different school? Or if I went to, you know, the neighboring town, or if anything would have been different? And I, like I always, that's always in the back of my head is, am I protecting these two boys? Because I don't want everyone to look at me and judge me about what I used to do.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
Right? Yeah, that's why I said move. Like you need a fresh start. I know you can sounds like your property in places and stuff like that. But it's just one of those guys that you're talking about. If the day they were born, someone would have scooped them up and taken them to Maryland and left them on the front doorstep of some lovely people who don't drink and then do coke to reinvigorate themselves. They would 100% be a different person right now.

Ashton 1:02:25
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And like I said, if I didn't have the support I do. I mean, my parents are here. My two grandparents are still alive. They're here. I understand. My father in law, his siblings, like we're all a very tight knit family. And we've all been sticking it sticking together through all of this. And at this point, I feel like if I like if I would have moved probably 10 years ago, that would have been perfect. But now at this point, if I were far away from the two boys, I don't know, I think I would just constantly be wondering where they are, and what they're doing. And because every day, not every day, but probably three times a week, if I haven't heard from either of those boys. I will, you know, text them and just be like, Hey, what's up, or I will ask my husband. Hey, have you talked to your brother lately? Or whatever, just because? I don't know. I guess what

Scott Benner 1:03:43
are you telling me? I should? Are you telling me that because that was your past? You don't have a future? No, no, no. You have to let go of it. Like that's the only answer. It sucks. Like, Listen, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. I'm a person. But I'm listening to you. And I've met Listen, I have a an acquaintance who grew up with insane parents. Okay, like really controlling, odd, insane people. And it was ruining their life. And then one day, they just went to their mother and said, I love you. But you're dragging me down with you. And we're not going to speak anymore. And then they just didn't do it and their life righted itself like it Yes, it was her mother and that made it really difficult. But but that that person was a chain with a weight on it around her neck. And she and and it turned out the chain had a latch on it. And she just she wasn't being drugged down by something she couldn't get off. She She just didn't want to get rid of it because it was her mom. And then yeah, did and I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that this woman is just floating around the world going like I don't talk to my mom anymore. That doesn't matter to me. That is a source of trouble for her. But it is Not as much trouble as the mother was. And like, I know you're gonna feel badly. But But what I keep wondering is, or are you guys also local to each other that you can avoid them?

Ashton 1:05:15
That's kind of it. We all live within 1015 minutes of each other. And we're in a really, really small town, like not, I don't even know how many people probably 2500. Okay. So not a ton of people, and we all still have a lot of the same friends. Like, we have a friend who we hang out with, but then we'll, we'll hang out with him for months and months, and it'll be fine. And then all of a sudden, he'll say, Oh, I ran into, and we went and had a crazy night out.

Scott Benner 1:06:05
Yeah, that's not going to stop. That's what I'm saying. But yeah, it's such a hard thing to say out loud. It's not gonna stop it. No, you could listen, my wife leaves her shoes on the floor. She's bad about it. If I really put my mind to it. I don't know if I could get her to stop doing it. And that's not drinking and cocaine. So, you know, you mean like, it's it's not an addiction she has, it isn't a crutch about her life. It isn't. It isn't a bunch of pain manifesting itself in an activity. It's that she's she, she has a habit. And she would first of all have to listen to me when I said, Hey, listen, you leave your shoes in the middle of the floor. We're going to stop doing that. She'd have to say, okay, Scott, you know what, you're right. I'm going to put some effort into that, can you please remind me every time and it would still be a process just to get a human being an adult to stop doing something that simple. My I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer here. But you're not going to stop those people from being who they are.

Ashton 1:07:10
No. And I've really, like I said, the last few months, I've really come to realize that. And we have distanced ourselves as much as possible. My brother in law, like he came over, I think, a week ago, he was in a good mindset, and everything came over and plowed our driveway. And that's the most I've seen him in probably in a few months. And like, just, I'm just trying my best to distance myself from them.

Scott Benner 1:07:45
Yeah. And try not feel bad for you when you're talking about it. Because I know you love these people. And this isn't what you want to do.

Ashton 1:07:53
No, it's not what I want to do. But for my family, my daughter, my sanity, my diabetes, I need to. And my two cousins. Like we have drifted apart tremendously since I had my daughter because of this reason. And same with my husband and brother in law, they used to be best friends. And Tom has just distanced himself, because he just can't handle the fact that while he lost his mother, and now they could possibly lose his brother. Okay, and so he's trying to, and he needs he also realized, his brother told him, he was starving and needed groceries. So we lent him some money. And Tom said, I should have went to the grocery store and picked him up food and not given him money.

Scott Benner 1:09:01
Right? Because the problems are sorted.

Ashton 1:09:05
Yeah, exactly. And then, about a week after that, Tom said, You know what? No, he doesn't need anything from me. Even if he is starving, I'm not going to the grocery store and buying food that he's like, I feel like that is enabling him. And he's told his dad to you need to stop lending him money to, you know, top up with his bills, because he's always, you know, $300 short on his bills or something like that.

Scott Benner 1:09:38
Yeah, I was gonna say that. There's the thing about lending people money, right? You don't lend people money. You just give it to them? Because you shouldn't expect it back. And yeah, and the bigger problem is the first time you do it, all it really does is lead to the second time it has to happen, which leads to the 50th time where they're like, Oh, I'm just $50 short this month, or I'm there assume that because they are in a they're in a deficit, right? They have a need doesn't matter that it's money, they have a need, yeah, meet the need, you have, probably you're not, I don't imagine you're sitting around with like, oh, we just have all this extra money sitting around. I don't know what to do. You don't I mean, it's Yeah. And so just because you've got a tiny bit of savings, or a couple of dollars in your pocket, and can afford to hands and probably can't afford, but can get away with handing somebody $50 or $100, or something like that, or giving them food. It's never going to stop. Never, ever, ever, ever going to stop. Because then that becomes part of their hunting and get their hunting and gathering process. Like I have a job, that job makes money, I have costs, I have a home, I have a truck, I have clothing, I have food, I don't meet those costs every month, but it doesn't matter. Because actions given me money. Now you're part of it. You're their job now to go to them and tell the sad story and go, I'm gonna stop I really am. But right now, I can't afford bread in my stomach, like, you know, like, and then you're like, oh, hell, and then that guilt gets to you, you give them that money, they're not giving it back to you. If they can exact right? And moreover, they're going to come back to you and ask for it again. So whether it's money, something tangible like that, or food, or it's part of yours, or if it's more psychological, like when they come to you, and they fallen apart, and now they need to dump their thing on you and then have you tell them, It's okay, you're basically recharging them. They're stealing your use of resources. And whether those resources are in your head or in your pocket. These people are there, they're black holes. That will you you can't fill them.

Ashton 1:11:42
That's exactly it. Because he is my brother in law, same thing, he will come and he Well, I shouldn't say he will. Because this, he's been doing better to the last while. But But up until about a month and a half, two months ago, he would come to us and try and dump everything on us. And we would just say, well, you that's your fault. You caused this, you did this, you made the choice. And he would just dump it on you. And he'd either get upset, or he'd agree with you completely. And then he Oh, well, I gotta go. And then he just leave and he wouldn't go home that night.

Scott Benner 1:12:25
Yeah, let me let me ask you. What do you in a perfect scenario? What would you want from these people?

Ashton 1:12:34
Honestly, I would just want for them to show up at you know, the two three family dinners we have a year. I think that's all I really want is to you know, have one or two good days with them once in a while.

Scott Benner 1:12:52
You see that's for you. But for Yeah. Yeah, for them. What do you need them to do? I don't like if I put you in charge of their life, if we took away their free will and I gave it to you. What would you make them do?

Ashton 1:13:10
I would make them quit the drugs obviously. Get a job. Find or you know, get a job or go to school or find a hobby. Lots of the boys around like my husband is leaving on a trip in a week to go snowmobiling at Revelstoke.

Scott Benner 1:13:33
Oh, that's a normal thing. They're not going to do normal stuff. But now, so those things that you just asked that you would say magic wand, make this person stop drinking, make them stop doing this? Are they going to do that? No. Okay, so then what's the what's the answer for you, because what I'm telling you is, you're not in control of them. And you being a crutch for them is just going to ruin you. You have a baby, you can't give somebody money, okay? And you can't give them your time or your energy. You don't want to be anxious. Listen, if they're driving your blood sugar up, I hate to I hate to talk like this. But if your blood sugar is bouncing all over the damn place, you can't be a good mom. And maybe 20 years from now, you're not going to be a healthy person because of that. And, and 20 years from now, when you're looking at your 21 year old child in the face, you're like, Well, I'm dying now. So good luck in this world, because I spent my whole life giving away my resources to people who didn't appreciate it and who were probably not saveable to begin with. So the so what I'm saying is the answer is this. They have to go to rehab and go through that process. And it works for them or it doesn't, and I would hope that it would, but that's the end of what you can do for them. You can tell them one time. I can't speak to you again until you complete rehab. Do not call here don't text me. Don't come by don't asked me for anything, don't come to any events, go to rehab, finish rehab, come back to me show me a chip. And then we can start talking again. Because you're not as much as this sucks to say they're not in a measurement of humanity at the moment, they're not where you are.

Ashton 1:15:20
No. And honestly, I've even the last I'd say week, I've come to the realization that they probably never will be.

Scott Benner 1:15:32
Well, hopefully, hopefully they can be. But that can't be your problem.

Ashton 1:15:34
Yeah, yeah, no, right, exactly. And I'm getting better at letting that go. And focusing on just my friends and family who are there. And trying to just distance myself from them. I'm working on that. I just

Scott Benner 1:15:55
so I don't know a ton about this. But I think it's possible that you should go to an Al Anon meeting.

Ashton 1:16:04
See, and that's the other thing. My husband had mentioned to me. He, because I had told my brother in law's girlfriend. I said, well, there is support meetings, maybe you should go to that. And when we got home from visiting her, he said to me, maybe you should look into doing this because you said I would, but it's just my brother. And I'm, I'm doing okay with it with that. But you it's, you're my brother, your two cousin, three cousins struggling

Scott Benner 1:16:45
with it. And that's fine. Yeah. Listen, growing up with alcoholic parents, or in an alcoholic like place is, is is impactful on people? Like it actually changes things like about your, like, let me see if I can think of one off the top of my head. Are you more comfortable when things are crazy? Like when when life looks good? Does it make you feel like it can't possibly last? You ever

Ashton 1:17:13
times like I'm more the last year or more content with calmness, and basically nothingness. So like, no one's bothering me. I'm good with that you

Scott Benner 1:17:27
are making real progress for yourself. I sounds like you are I listen, I can only assess you on what you're saying. Right? But you're making really good progress on your for yourself. And I just I don't know, I would treat. I would treat them like they were the flu. And I'd be like, I don't want to be around that. I don't want I don't want that get on me. Now. Listen, here's the interesting thing. If your brother in law came on the podcast, I wouldn't tell him, Hey, I hope people around you will abandon you. I hope that everybody leaves you, I would tell them, here's what you need to do for yourself. Yeah, I wouldn't tell him. Here's what you have to get your sister in law to do for you. Right? And so I it's not without compassion that I'm saying these things to you. I'm talking to you about your specific situation and to defend you and your specific situation. You have to get away from these people. Like yeah, that's that. I mean, I you know, it's harsh. And it's, it might sound cold, but it would only sound cold to somebody who doesn't know what this is. This reality is like, because this Yeah, right. Yeah, drowning, and they are trying to pull you under with them.

Ashton 1:18:40
And honestly, if I, myself didn't do the drugs and the drinking when I was younger, I think it might be easier for me.

Scott Benner 1:18:50
Oh, you'd be harsher. Yeah. Because you wouldn't have any perspective for it.

Ashton 1:18:53
Exactly. I wouldn't have that. What's the word? I'm looking for empathy? Like, yeah, empathy, I wouldn't have that same. I would.

Scott Benner 1:19:03
Your empathy is causing you to swim out 100 yards into the ocean and go, don't worry, I'll pull you back in. And you're not qualified for that. So not at all. So what's the answer? Tell me your because we're at the end here. We're wrapping up. So tell me you're telling me what the answer is to this. Like, what do you do next?

Ashton 1:19:22
I think my next shot, my next step is just let it be if you know if I am over at my father in law's and my brother in law is there and he's having a good day. I'll let him have that good day. I'll act like nothing's going on. But when he is in a bad spot, I just ignore him and leave and come home. I think is my best. Best Action right now.

Scott Benner 1:19:54
It's a good step also what it's going to teach you. My expectation is that At some point, you're going to progress and grow to the point where you think I don't even want to be around this one day a week. Exactly. You will, it'll, and that's where you have to kind of go to your that's where you almost have to go to your father in law and say, Look, I don't I'm not asking you to choose between your children. But I hope you understand that I can't bring my baby here. Like, like, we're doing a good job of building a good life for ourselves. And we can't keep coming back to this. And I feel badly that this is the situation with the boys or whatever. But yeah, we can't be around this. Listen, I'm gonna tell you something right now. There are people in my family and my extended family, people I love and care about greatly, who my children have never been in their car. And when it became obvious that we weren't allowing our kids in their car, and they sent it to us, we responded by saying, Yeah, I can't let you drive my kids anywhere. And you have to, you know, I'm sorry. And I know that's harsh. But we but and this is almost the same thing. Like because it was hard to say to them, it was hard for them to hear. And yet I had something I cared about more than their feelings.

Ashton 1:21:18
Exactly. And we've had a sort of similar situation is your car thing. Um, brother in law about six, eight months ago, asked if he could stay here, because he wasn't waking up for his alarms for work in the morning. He stayed here, and he wasn't waking up to his alarm. So my husband went and went down the hallway to wake him up. And he poked him a couple times and said, Get up. You're going to be late for work. Sorry,

Scott Benner 1:21:51
you're fine. I gave up on that a while ago.

Ashton 1:21:58
And he absolutely lost it. started calling my husband right down to the ground, went into the bathroom to have a shower and slammed the door. The bathroom was right beside my daughter's room. This is at 530 in the morning. So as soon as brother in law went out the door to go to work. I looked at my husband. I said he's not saying here one more time. He's not

Scott Benner 1:22:30
because he wasn't he wanted a mommy. He wanted somebody to help them get out of bed in the morning. Exactly. Man, you didn't want me got mad at you?

Ashton 1:22:38
Yeah, and he wasn't even high that night.

Scott Benner 1:22:43
No, he's emotionally immature. Exactly. Yeah.

Ashton 1:22:48
And so after that, I said, not. He's not to be around Rory when he's acting like that. He's not coming to stay here again. The other situation? His girlfriend got pregnant. She's about halfway along now. So Tom, and I had the conversation. Well, if he projects this baby attitude onto his child, well, our child will not be hanging out with his child.

Scott Benner 1:23:25
I don't know how to break it to you. It's already too late for that. That kid's already doomed. Exactly. That when it comes to that, that this person isn't fixing themselves before that kid becomes impressionable. That's yeah, that's not helpful.

Ashton 1:23:38
That's what my husband said to we're hoping that the well I don't know if their girlfriend if it's his ex girlfriend or girlfriend, but I think she is going to stay living where she is with out him. And they're gonna try and CO parent I think, I don't know, it changes all the time. What's

Scott Benner 1:23:59
gonna happen? I have some money. I'd like to bet on that. Yeah, so and I don't mean to be make light of it. I know. It really is just there is a there is a giant force moving in a direction. And a new baby or a girlfriend or you helping somebody wake up in the morning is not enough to stop this tidal wave that is this person's life. Like it is fine to crash down on the shore and destroy everything that it touches. And you got to move like you got to get away from where it's going to happen. And it's hard but and I get your get the feeling the overwhelming feeling of I can help I can help. I can help but I mean, that's the same feeling that a that a gambler has no I gotta hit this time. And then you know, it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen and then you'd make bigger and bigger bets to try to like win back what you've lost. And then before you know it, it's you in a dark black space with nothing around you. If you've bet your shoes, you're naked. It's over. And now you're done. And then that taints your child's life. Exactly. It's all we all know what to do here, Ashton. It's just a question of whether or not you're gonna do it.

Ashton 1:25:12
Yeah, and I've been working on it sounds like you're trying pretty hard for her for her.

Scott Benner 1:25:17
Pretty impressive what you're doing seriously? Like, like, Yeah, I'm not kidding. Like, it's not like you were like, the, the, like, the straight edge kid in the family. Like you did the whole thing, too. And then oh, yeah, hold yourself out. I, you know.

Ashton 1:25:33
And that's the thing is my younger cousin, the one who is starting to dabble in the cocaine. He was always the one who was straight edge. He started a company, he's got a company now, he led a small engine company. He he was always the one who said no, you know, you ask them for, if you want to cigarette Oh, no, I'm good. You know, he'll have two drinks and go to bed. Or he was never really a party, kid. And now he's getting drug into it. And that's a big worry for me. Because how can me go from? How can I go from party girl, wild child to family woman. And it was like, I, it didn't take me any work. It was just I woke up one day and I decided I'm, I'm done. I don't want that. I want a family. I want a life with this guy I want. And I just gave it up. And I just It worries me about my younger cousin quite a bit, because he was such a good kid. And he was always able to say no, and now he's dabbling, too. So I've had to distance myself from him, too.

Scott Benner 1:27:03
Yeah, I'm sorry. It's terrible. It there's nothing. Nothing

Ashton 1:27:07
it is. I have other like, I have my family and everything. But other than them, those three, but it's getting hard. And I've found, like I said, blood sugars with them up and down like they have been, it's so easy for me to get into that depressive mood. Where I'm bawling because I don't know where my brother in law or my cousins are or

Scott Benner 1:27:42
Yeah, but if you didn't know where they were or anything about their life, you wouldn't be worried about them. So you have to do what's best for you. Stop thinking about of just like your blood sugar, although I see you see it in your blood sugar. But really step back and see that what's really happening is that your emotions, and your nervous system, and everything about you is in turmoil for knowing these people

Ashton 1:28:05
do exactly that. Yeah, that is a great way to put it.

Scott Benner 1:28:10
Yeah. Forget, forget, forget, like forget focusing on your blood sugar, or on one thing, it's peace. There's a peace that comes with life. And, and they're taking it from you, or you're giving it to them, probably more specifically,

Ashton 1:28:25
I would say I'm giving it to them. Because I've given them your piece. I tell them I tell myself all the time. Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them, and then they will, you know, oh, hey, do you mind if we stop over for five minutes? And is it Rory don't come here? Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And then we ended up getting into a big conversation about you know, the other. The other thing is my brother in law and my cousin, they always come to us to bitch about each other. Okay, so that needs to stop to

Scott Benner 1:29:06
see the I don't know if you notice, but basically, what what you're surrounded with is a lot of reasons why bad stuff happens. And it all feels so normal to you. That you almost say it like, I don't know what the example here is. If you almost say it like, oh, you know what happens? They come over here and then they have to sleep here. So I have to wake them up in the morning. You almost say it like, you know what happens? Like some days you have to vacuum the rug. Like it's not normal. Yeah, but you haven't all these things that you're saying? They're not normal. But they seem normal to you.

Ashton 1:29:40
Yeah, it's just how it's been the last, probably your whole lives around. Well.

Scott Benner 1:29:49
What about the adults on your family who were doing the same thing 20 years ago? Yeah, I probably didn't see it happening. But these are probably just things that are repeating over and over again.

Ashton 1:29:59
And That's a big thing my husband and I are working on is breaking that cycle.

Scott Benner 1:30:06
Yeah, listen, you can break it in five seconds. Because you're right, exactly. Yeah, there's a way to break it, you can be done with this right now. So it's, um, it's up to you. Really, it's up to you about like, the level in which you're going to separate. And yeah, I can't tell you for sure that you going to bet it's going to work. But I'll tell you, it's worth trying.

Ashton 1:30:30
It is at this point, because like I said, every day, if something will come up, that reminds me of one of those boys. And that's what's on my mind for the next hour. Are they alive? Did they make it through the night? Did and I need to distance myself from that?

Scott Benner 1:30:47
Yeah, what you should be worrying about is, how's my blood sugar? Is it stable? Am I gonna live a good long time to raise my child and live with my person that I love? And do the things that I want to do? Like, that's, yeah, that's really where your focus should be. It's on yourself and your family. And you have to stop thinking of your cousin or a brother in law, on the same level as you think about your child or your husband. It just, it's, that's just what it is. I probably sound so callous today.

Ashton 1:31:15
No, no, I,

Scott Benner 1:31:19
I guess Yeah. But not to you. But I'm thinking the people listening are probably like Jesus got a little bit. But yeah, I mean, you've given people more than enough chances. And their situation is dire enough that expecting just you to be kind to them, or give them 50 bucks, or a loaf of bread and some milk and some other stuff. That's not going to work. So no, you have to do something that's going to work and protect yourself do because, by the way, he said it early on in the show, and we never it's got nothing to do with your direct story. But violence does follow drinking and drugs, and bad decisions and violence and sometimes violence on purpose. And sometimes violence by mistake in the form of a car accident or something like that, or even a home accident. These are not things you don't want to wake up tomorrow to hear that your husband had a car accident with somebody. And you don't I mean, like it's just I don't know, I my brain might be overly simplistic, but I would just get away from that. I would I would never and I'm not just talking about my ass like I've done it my life. Like I've seen people on my go, you are not dragging me down. I get one shot at this. I get I got my kids, my wife my opportunity. I am absolutely not. For somebody who doesn't want the help or can accept the help. You can't force it on them. And so

Ashton 1:32:45
and you just I've had a it's been so easy for me to accept that with, you know, close friends of mine that I've that I grew up with. I can no problem. Just delete them out of my life. Yeah, just like that. I'm have no problem. Just these two boys. They are albatross

Scott Benner 1:33:10
don't let them. Don't let them be your albatross. Like, just you got it. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm telling you that allanon is not a bad answer. I think I think really, that would be how you'd that that would be a way where you could talk to other people who've been in the same situation. And they could, yeah, you know what happened to them.

Ashton 1:33:29
Because it's not my, you know, my child or my parents or my brother, my sibling that is addicted. They are farther away from me. But we've all grown up so close that I'm just having that hard time letting them go. And I think you're right. I think an Al Anon meeting would probably even just to go to one I'm sure would make me feel so much lighter.

Scott Benner 1:33:57
I even forget being lighter. You have to find a way to value yourself over the their problems. So yeah, hey, I'm sorry, I shouldn't I actually I have to get I have a meeting coming up. Oh, no, sorry.

Ashton 1:34:13
I didn't realize wait, no,

Scott Benner 1:34:14
no, don't be sorry. We had a nice concert. I love this this wonderful. I I want you to know that I'll go back and edit it. I'll take everybody's names out. Okay. You're fine. And, and I appreciate you sharing the story. It's I think it's more I mean, listen, the salient details might be different. Maybe it's not cocaine and booze. Maybe it's, you know, other things, but there are plenty of people living with diabetes, who who are impacted by the people around them in negative ways. And I thought it was just really, I mean, it wasn't a whole story. Like you couldn't have talked about it for an hour. But hearing you say my blood sugar is affected by people around me be In short heads, and I don't know how to stop it, I think it's something a lot of people are going to are going to find some commonality with while they're listening. It might not be whale fields and Coke, but there's something going on in people's lives that is doing the same thing to them. So I really appreciate Yeah, time talking.

Ashton 1:35:18
That's kind of why I wanted to come on to is just how family members or loved ones affect our care

Scott Benner 1:35:30
into one group and call the mother. How's that? How the mother years in our life are affecting my diabetes. And why? Why don't they pull their head out of their ass so I can stop worrying about them. That's a long file off that I have to pare that down to probably something like after dark oil drilling and Coke, but you know

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. You spell that g v o OKEGLUC. Ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I also want to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems, please get yours at my link dexcom.com forward slash juice box and of course the today's guest Ashton for telling this incredible story. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're looking for a community around your diabetes, check out the Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private group. It's absolutely free. I think it has like 37,000 members. It's incredibly active, very helpful. And it doesn't matter if you have type one, type two or whatever. There's every kind of diabetic and person using insulin and parent of somebody you can imagine there to great group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, absolutely free on Facebook. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. And please subscribe or follow in an audio app like Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon music or something like that.

#890 Best of Juicebox: Dexcom Calibration Practices

Originally aired on Sept 4, 2020. Jenny, Scott and the members of the Juicebox Podcast Facebook group compare their calibration ideas. Come along as we compare the Dexcom calibration practices of many people living with type 1 diabetes.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 890 of the Juicebox Podcast

Welcome back everyone to the best of the Juicebox Podcast series. Today we're going to revisit episode 375 Dexcom calibration practices. This episode originally aired on September 4 2020. And it features Jenny Smith and I talking about when we calibrate our Dexcom G sixes. It's still something I see people ask every day. So here it is. While you're listening today, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Are you a US resident who has type one or the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Join the registry complete the survey. When you complete that survey. You are helping type one diabetes research to move forward right from your sofa. You also might be helping out yourself and you're supporting the podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This episode of the podcast is sponsored by cozy earth. Now you can get 35% off your entire order at cozy earth.com Just by using the offer code juice box at checkout. I am wearing cozy Earth joggers and a sweatshirt right now these joggers are like the best and our sheets are super duper super, super cool. And silky and soft. Also from cozy Earth. Cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box to save 35% My daughter Arden began wearing the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump on February 4 2009. That was 5093 days ago. Were another way to think of it 1697 pods ago. At that time she was four years old. Hang out with me for a moment while I tell you more about the Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Today Arden is 18 and still wearing Omni pod back then there was one choice just one pod but today you have a decision to make. Do you want the Omni pod five, the first and only tubeless automated insulin delivery system to integrate with the Dexcom G six because if you do, it's available right now for people with type one diabetes ages two years and older. The Omni pod five is an algorithm based pump that features smart adjust technology. That means that the Omni pod five is adjusting insulin delivery based on your customized target glucose that's helping you to protect against high and low blood sugars, both day and night. Automatically. Both the Omni pod five and the Omni pod dash are waterproof, you can wear them while you're playing sports swimming in the shower, the bathtub, anywhere really. That kind of freedom. Coupled with tubeless a tubeless pump, you understand it's not connected to anything. The controller is not connected to the pod, the pod is not connected to anything, you're wearing it on the body tube lessly no tubing to get caught on doorknobs or anywhere else that tubing with those other insulin pumps can get caught Omni pod.com forward slash juice box that's where you go to find out more, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. You should check that out too, when you get to my link Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. So if you're looking for an insulin pump that is tubeless waterproof, and automated. You're looking for the Omni pod five, if you want to do it on your own, or you're not looking for the automation, Omni pod dash for full safety risk information and free trial Terms and Conditions. Please also visit omnipod.com forward slash juicebox.

fellow friends and welcome to episode 375 of the Juicebox Podcast. On today's show, Jenny Smith and I will discuss different ideas around calibrating continuous glucose monitors. My perspective of course will come from the Dexcom G six because that's what Arden uses. Jenny also wears the G six but she has worn the Medtronic CGM and many of you have added your thoughts to this episode through the private Facebook group. For the podcast I asked this quite Question Hey, calibrating your CGM, yes or no. And we got a lot of answers. They're all woven into this episode. At the end, I will read directly to you from Dex coms website. And of course while you're listening, I'd love it. If you'd remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please Always consult a physician before making changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. I also took a few minutes from the conversation while Jenny was setting up her microphone and everything and she was admitting to not being able to do something around her house and I put it at the end of the episode so you can enjoy it. Jenny is delightful. You want to know something else about Jenny. You can hire her just go to integrated diabetes.com. Jenny Smith has been living with type one diabetes for 31 years. She holds a bachelor's degree in Human Nutrition and biology from the University of Wisconsin. She is a registered and licensed dietitian, a certified diabetes educator and certified trainer on most makes and models of insulin pumps, and continuous glucose monitors. She is also a very good friend of the podcast. So check her out. And while you're looking, check out the Contour Next One blood glucose meter go to contour next one.com Ford slash juice box to find what I believe to be the greatest blood glucose meter available. Second Chance test strips. Super bright light for nighttime viewing. It fits easily in your hand, but doesn't slip away. Well, if that makes sense or not. But it's easy to hold. You don't drop it. I like the shape. I like how portable it is. I can find it in a bag at night without the lights on. I've never told you that before but it's easy to find in a bag. And it's testing ability is just first class. Contour next.com forward slash juice box are the links in your show notes are the ones available at juicebox podcast.com. If you have time I'd also loved if you check out touched by type one.org and T one D exchange.org. Ford slash juice box touched by type one is my favorite diabetes organization. And T one D exchange. They're doing research to help people living with type one diabetes. And every one of you that completes the research. You just need to be from the United States have type one diabetes, or be the guardian or parent of someone with type one diabetes. Anyway, when you finish the research, the podcast gets a little help you don't I mean a little cha ching, and you're helping people live better with type one diabetes. It's a great organization 100% HIPAA compliant, absolutely anonymous. You can take your information out at any time, just tell them look, I don't want to be a part of this anymore. If you want to write so there's no pressure, you'll never have to go to a doctor's office never have to go to a testing site. And once a year, they'll ask you a couple of questions to keep your information updated. And your answers help shape type one diabetes care. It's pretty cool. Being Arden's parent, I was able to fill out the survey, it took me less than 10 minutes. And I did not find any of the questions to be like I was I was never like, oh god, why they asked me that was all very pretty simple actually. was easy to do. I think we're going to record an episode today that has the opportunity to be very controversial. Oh, great, but not in a way that I think I don't think it's gonna get us in too much trouble. So I this is gonna sound crazy, right? But I want to talk about how you manage your G six. As far as calibrating we're not calibrating it goes. And I asked online and got 77 replies. I just said to people

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:53
and are all they are they're all different.

Scott Benner 8:55
Oh my god, all of them are so different. So it says I said Dexcom calibration thread share what works for you. And I did say your tips may be used in an upcoming episode of the podcast. So first, I guess we'll talk about what we do and then we'll dig through all of this now for clarity right that I mean Dexcom you know their I guess their public statement is that the Dexcom G six does not need to be calibrated.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:25
It doesn't need to be unless it's unless the system asks for a calibration Okay, in my year and a half of use of G six now I've I think I've seen it asked for a calibration maybe twice on its own like you know, like a this is not right or I think one of them might have been you're not right I'm gonna give you a calibration then the system was like no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to ask for calibration again in like 30 minutes or something. I think what kind of did that Yeah, technically G six isn't supposed to require a calibration through the whole 10 days of life, right? Unless it requests

Scott Benner 10:09
one. Okay. All right. So there's a whole bunch of information on the website about it. I'll probably read it at the end, just so that it's in here. By the way, keep in mind, I did not tell Dexcom I was making this, I don't do that. So I didn't, I wasn't like, we're gonna do a calibration episode. It's just something people talk about all the time. And every time someone talks about it, it's like religion or politics. Do you know what I mean? Like, someone will come in and say, well, here's what I do. And 30 people be like, that's wrong. Don't do that. I was like, wow, everyone has such feelings about this, you know? Yes. So obviously, I think whatever works for you is what works for you. But Jenny, do you do you have like a, like a way like, when you start a new sensors, or a thing you do?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:55
You just start a new sensor. I pop it in, I expect. It's funny. I, I see a lot of people you know, work with a lot of people are like, it always kind of like you just said it is always low for a one hour for five hours, six hours after I started up, I know that it's just going to read me low. And whatever. I'm kind of, I think I'm sort of odd in that. Sometimes when it gets going. It is spot on. And I always do a finger stick because I always want to verify where it is. That's just my habit. Yeah. Sometimes it stays completely reliable. From the get go. It's great, right? Sometimes it's a little bit off. But then as it kind of keeps going. It gets right on with a finger stick. Yeah. And sometimes it has that weird. Low. The fun thing about that low is, it always seems to be if I have to change the sensor at night. It's gonna be low. And then I'm gonna be fighting the annoying alerts. All night

Scott Benner 12:08
long. All right. Okay. So is the time that I can relate to what you're saying. I might take a detour for a second here. But before I do your, uh, your your spotty on your end. You plugged in the Ethernet, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:22
I did plug it in. Yeah. All right.

Scott Benner 12:24
Make that mic a little closer to you, please. So I better i Yes, I do think that. What's that old cartoon with a round head? And do you know what I mean? It's like, if something's gonna go wrong, it will and it's attributed. How is it possible? I can't remember Murphy's Law. Okay, was it a cartoon?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:46
cartoon? I think it's actually, I don't know that it's necessarily a is maybe it is a cartoon. I don't know. What am I kidding? No, no, it's like rule of thumb.

Scott Benner 12:55
My thinking of I think I may have had a mini stroke just now because I don't think there's any cartoon associated with Murphy's Law. Okay, let's get away from that thought. I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:04
think that this might also be the issue between my voice. I, well, it came with the mic. And I always try to be very protective of the mics. I always put the little Styrofoam thing she's

Scott Benner 13:20
talking Styrofoam between the microphone and her mouth when you throw that out. Please. No wonder you can't change that light bulb. Everything you said about the light bulbs thing in the episode now just

so yeah, so I said at the beginning, but just to reiterate, Arden CGM is usually go on. And then they read perfectly. And then sometime in the first hour, it just decides that she's low, like, you know, way lower than she is. And if you let it ride out, it comes back up. Now

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:56
hit a particular time. Do you have like a defined time that usually

Scott Benner 14:00
Yeah, I think in like, if I don't see it in like three or four hours, then here I go. I calibrate it. If it's not that now I don't calibrate low to 90. Right. So we'll talk about that. Like you can confuse the CGM. If the reality is, if the reality is too far from where the CGM thinks it is. Right? You can't calibrate it because it just goes does not compute and you know it, you fry its mind. And it takes forever for it to come back from that. But know if she's, if she's 100. And for clarity, too, I think this makes sense to say obviously, we're using the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. If you have like an old Genki blood glucose meter, you know, the G six is probably way more reliable than your old meter is right but I'm very comfortable that this meter is is pretty spot on. And so if the meter tells me she's 100 But it says she's 60 Well, then that's too far apart, obviously. And so I'll calibrate it, but I'll tell it like she's 75 and kind of coax it up, and then test her again a little while later and coax it the rest of the way. So that's one of the ways I sort of, if it's too far apart, I calibrate but I don't you have no

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:25
timeframe to calibration, coaxing kind of way, like you said, and if it gets up to par quicker, you probably don't calibrate again, or at all it does. Then you'll calibrate again. But that's not like a defined time period after that initial coaxing.

Scott Benner 15:43
Yeah, yeah, I don't have like, I don't have like a magic number to it, like, like everyone else does. Like, here's a person who said, over 50 Points off, I wait an hour for blood sugars to stabilize. And if it's still off, I pull it and get a replacement. Well, that seems aggressive. And I wouldn't do that. Because last night, like I said, Arden's sensor went on. Around seven, came online, around nine was great. Said she was low, around 10. She was in the shower, but I don't think that has anything to do with it. She gets out. It's wrong for a while. And then it just is right again. And then it just shuts off for like, two hours. It's what last night was that was last night was an uncommon occurrence for us, we don't usually lose a signal during it. But as it came back on, I calibrated it probably two times overnight. And then it's now it's it's beautiful. Like if I use this person's theory, I would have pulled it off. And I knew not to pull it off less than I was like, No, this one's going to come around. Right? You know, and it did. Tina says that I calibrate if it's way off after warm up. But only if it's a stable arrow. I didn't do it once and waited for it to catch up and that sensor ended up being not good. So there's so much anecdotal conversation in this thread. Everybody knows, I bet you if Dexcom was here, they would just tell you like, Don't calibrate it. It'll it'll figure it out. Right? But what do you do when it doesn't figure it out?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:29
Yeah, that's when people get frustrated like this. They're like, well, it's clearly not doing what I want it to do. I haven't calibrated so either I'm just frustrated enough to pull it off and start a new one up. Or they calibrate and then they calibrate and then they calibrate and then calibrate and you know, I think Dexcom in the first 24 hours tells you not to calibrate leave it alone, the system should write itself after that. If the system is off compared to finger stick, then if your glucose is less than 70, you can calibrate if there's more than a 30% difference between finger stick and CGM. If your glucose is more than 70, and finger stick to CGM is off by more than 30 points, then you can calibrate. Okay, so those are the rules of thumb that at least used to be a piece for Dexcom in terms of when they would say, okay, it's okay. Now to go ahead and calibrate. Yes, the system technically doesn't require them. But if it's this much off, you could calibrate because clearly, it's not keeping you where your finger sticks are. And again, I you know, the fact of using an accurate blood glucose monitor. That's huge. That's huge.

Scott Benner 18:52
You definitely can't use an old technology. Now. There's a Listen, I'll make this argument all day long. If you've got a 10 year old meter, and you've got a Dexcom G six, you trust the Dexcom G six, not the meter, and you don't tell the Dexcom who might really know that your blood sugar is 90 that Oh, no, no, it's not it's 120 This old busted up meter I have here says so you know, because then then you're then you're literally telling the CGM what you're really 120 and it's going no, we're not. We're 90. And that causes confusion. You know, the next person in here. So Stacy goes. Don't calibrate. Install the sensor. When the BG is most stable, like right before bed, stay hydrated. Learn what the trends are for you or your child because everyone is different. Thanks again for the pakoda it's not about that. But so her explanation is she doesn't like to put on a new sensor in a time of blood sugar turmoil, correct up or down or anything like that. Is that also something that helps do you think

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:54
I would expect that it would help? Yes, I mean, I don't. My personal Do I pay attention to that? No. I mean, when my sensor dies, I replace it and I started up. But it for those who do have more issue with sensor accuracy from the get go, it could be a very good rule of thumb because it used to be, I mean eons ago, when sensors first came out, that was the rule with the calibrations, make sure that you have a stable horizontal line or a horizontal arrow. Or there's there's not a very large rate of change happening, so that the system can kind of get on par with what it's sensing in a more stable setting.

Scott Benner 20:38
That to me makes sense. Because if you're rising quickly, and at the moment, you're 71, and you tell the thing, you're 71, it's aware that you're rising your meters not. And so by the time you put the number in, you might be 80. And then that's also well, so. So it's interesting here, because the next Lisa comes in and says, in these books, these two people are parents, it's interesting the difference between parents and maybe this is where we really give parents and people with type one a little extra, because you know, they're paying attention a little extra, right? Like you just said, like, I'll put my damn thing on whenever I need to. And that's the end of it. But Lisa said new sensor inserted and warm during stable time, she says the same thing. And then she says when it works for her stay hydrated, avoid rapid blood glucose changes during the warmup. And the first hours. For example, that looks like they exercise physical exercise be suspicious of unexpected values in the first evening, I 100%. Believe in that I you know, first day of a Dexcom. If I don't trust what I'm seeing I check, right. She says she gives a little rule of thumb here. If way off from a finger stick and a flat arrow. I calibrate a value in between but never more than too many miles. Or 36. Oh, she's from? Oh, yeah, at least I think is Australian at a time. Normally given one, the sensor gets a brain normally given one a sensor gets around. I don't know what she means by that. But so that's it for her right? It's way off from a finger stick. And you have a flat our all calibrated value in between but never more than the 36 points off for Americans. So I think what she's saying is, if the if the things that if the sensor says she's 100. And the meter says she's 136 She picks a midpoint and tells it oh, I'm really 118. That's what I say

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:33
sounds like yeah, that sounds like what you're doing

Scott Benner 22:35
to coaxing it towards the truth. Right? Yeah. It's like the first hour of interrogation after you've been arrested. We don't go right. We don't go right for the for the idea that we start off with. So are you there?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:50
I do have to say, you know, I guess I didn't, I guess I didn't really think about it in in terms. Maybe subconsciously. I was thinking about it. But in terms of like the comment about starting a new sensor before exercise, I don't do that. Okay. I will, I guess, again, subconscious level, I will start it when I'm not going to be moving so that things are moving quicker. I just do finger sticks. If I have a sensor that dies before I plan to go out, I just do some finger sticks and go about my exercise plan.

Scott Benner 23:25
Yeah, well, we, you know, we've run into situations before where we're, you know, throwing on new equipment. Honestly, whether it's a pump or a CGM, and we're running out of the house or Arden's leaving, but we're going to split up. And I think I must always say, hey, look, that's a new pump. So, you know, let's be extra careful. That's a new CGM. Pay attention to how you feel you should probably test in an hour. Right? You know, I think we all have feelings around technology, like, you know, a continuous glucose monitor, or even an insulin pump site isn't a television, it's not just like it works. This thing should do exactly what it's supposed to do every time this. There's also a dance it's doing with your physiology. And that's different for many, many of us, and not always repeatable in the same ways. So,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:17
right, like, I think there are some people to someone who is a very true listener to your podcasts, who I've been working with for a bit and he actually wears two sensors, he wears G six, and he wears a libre, at the same time interesting. And, you know, a piece of it is the benefit with the pumping system that he uses when it's when he has a new sensor. He wants to be able to continue to feed glucose values to the system in order to keep it running right and doing what it's supposed to do. So he uses the libre data then to plug in the glucose values in order to not have to do finger sticks in that time period. I'd like to be able to still give it glucose values, which I think is, you know, if you're not, if you don't really care about wearing more robotic parts, that's a great idea, you know, those time periods too, and I've had them. G six for me has been kind of funny I have, I would say I have really good accuracy with it. But by about day eight on 90% of my sensors thus far, day eight, I start to get sensor error, wait three hours, and then it'll come back. And I'll get a little data and then it'll give me another sensor error, wait three hours. And at this point, if I get it twice, on day eight, I'm like, kaput, the air the sensors done, I take off, I call it in Dexcom is great. They've send me new ones. They always ask the same darn questions. I'm like, I don't know why it's dying on day eight for me, but it is. So. But I mean, in terms of units, and just the time periods when you get those errors, having a backup, like wearing a libre, which again, also doesn't require any calibration, kind of can give you a back up in terms of your initial system

Scott Benner 26:08
overlap it, you're

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:09
right, it's a little overlap.

Scott Benner 26:11
Well, you know, and we do testing in that time, like I, I don't I agree with you, when when I see people who are like, Oh my god, the worst time in my life is the two hour warm up when I don't have Dexcom. Right. And I think those people must be newer to diabetes, or to decks or in general, because I've never once thought, Oh, my God, we've lost the CGM for two hours like this thing. Like last night it you know, it, um, it lasted the full 10 days, like right up till to the hard stop. And it wasn't a problem once during the thing. And then the next two hours, I just hold our nose, like they get an hour, just test. And if you need insulin, give it to yourself, like, you know, the way we did it for years and years and years before this technology exists.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:55
I feel like that's probably the case. And it's, I sort of have, I compare it to kind of being like, you're on the mothership, and all of a sudden, you get like, spit out the back door, and now you're like, Lost in Space? Where am I traveling to? What's going on? I mean, quite honestly. fingerstick I mean, it's I know that and for many parents, I think it's hard when you've gotten so used to a system that you feel like you're saving your little ones fingers. Yeah, you know what? They're going to be okay. It'll be alright, if you stick their finger, you know, they'll be okay. If you get information that's going to help in the short term,

Scott Benner 27:37
right? I'm helping a person right now. And I said, Hey, why don't you check with the meter, and they have the contour. So I was like, I'm pretty comfortable with this. And they responded back and we're like, we don't we didn't ever test. And I said you probably should have a little bit. And you know, and so and now is one of those questions. Why do you want me to test right now? I said, because we're about to do something. And I want to be 100% sure we're doing the right thing. And I don't know you. And you know, I don't know when you put the CGM on, I don't know how you've managed it. Like I just want. I want a little peace of mind here. Right? Don't take your peace of mind from an old meter. But you know, at the same time, okay, ready? What do we have here? Dana's got some solid advice. I think I've probably calibrated every sensor a few times, but it has to be a flat arrow. I use decks, comps for trends, and a finger pick through a finger poke throughout the day. So if it's consistently off by 10, or 20 points, over two and three or two or three checks, then I'll calibrate. So if she's off by more like between 10 and 20 points, two or three times, then she brings the CGM back. I have to admit, I would do that too. I don't know that, that she's saying she does it consistently through every sensor. We don't do that. But if I saw that, I agree I would do it. You know, and Arden's a one see very closely matches her Dexcom data. Right, so I'm comfortable that I'm doing the right thing.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 29:11
Yeah, mine does too. And that's a lot of people do some comparison. I mean, I'll usually get emails from people and they're like, Well, my my GMI from tax calm was telling me this, but my agency came back at this what's what is the deal? You know, and I know that we've talked about that before on a couple of other episodes, but I mean, you have to understand the difference you know, blood glucose versus interstitial glucose, a little bit of variance there. Could be I myself also have very good comparison between the Dexcom average and my actual Awan See, they're they're close. I think that the last one was within like, one point or point one.

Scott Benner 29:54
Well, that is that is definitely how I, in the end, assess whether or not I I'm managing that sensor Well, right. And it's funny too, because, you know, back in the day when people were rampid for information back when information used to go really slow, like a new CGM, you know, the G five would come out and people right away is I get the notes. Scott doesn't work review it, Bob a lot. I'm like, I'm not going to know for three months. Like, why do you?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:20
What are you talking about? Ask me two days after, right?

Scott Benner 30:23
Here's how we'll know three months from now I'll look at Arden's data. Somebody sent me an email and said, Please say data for me. So I'll look at Arden's data. And then I'll look at her agency. And if they match, I'll say Hmm, that CGM must have been pretty good. Because there's no other way to tell. And so I do think that this is kind of crazy, because it's user error. A lot of the times right and not error, like, oh, you screwed up, I think, Oh, you don't know how, which is why I want to put this this episode together. Because it just it is like sometimes this thing needs a little massaging. Chelsea said, we calibrate only if the arrow is stable. Usually first thing in the morning, and before I go to bed, keep hydrated. Never calibrate when there is no arrow? Because she believes rackets that means the sensor is confused in general, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:19
Correct. That means the sensor is it's still giving you data, but it's it's making sure like all of its little algorithm, whatever it's doing internally there, it's not giving you an error, an arrow of direction, because it's seeing a glucose value. But there's there's make sense for them. Yeah, it's kind of confused, I guess. Yeah.

Scott Benner 31:41
She goes on to say try to calibrate when food or rapid insulin is on board. And some people say this is her gleaming I think what other people said to her that works for her, insert it let it marinate overnight and then calibrate in the morning and in fairness, Jeanette came in and said this and put arrows to it. Like she was like, I completely agree with this one. Next person says we rarely calibrate. We know that the de Dexcom will oftentimes be off a bit in the first 12 hours. If you do calibrate, do so when numbers are stable and not dropping increasing quickly. Right? Yeah, see people are starting to hear

Jennifer Smith, CDE 32:21
idea is not, it's not I guess, proprietary to Dexcom. A lot of people with Medtronic do exactly that as well, because of I think their sensor has long term been a little bit more wonky, kind of in the get go kind of stage. So there are a lot of people who even with the older Medtronic sensors would let it do that, like marination, they'd sort of inserted at night, they'd start it up first thing in the morning, still get another two hours of wait time period, but it was enough that they got rid of that sink in period.

Scott Benner 32:57
Have you ever seen people put a sensor on but and then cover it? Yeah. And not not at all, like put a transmitter in it or anything like that. I've seen people do that. In fact, I've

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:09
had a couple of parents who do that with their kids kind of this marinate idea. They'll use that. Whatever it's called caveman. It's like the the sticky wrap. It doesn't really

Scott Benner 33:17
stick stick. Like if they give blood now they wrap it around your cotton, right? Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:22
exactly. So what they'll do is they'll put the Dexcom on, not put anything in it like meaning like a transmitter. And then they just wrap that around, let it sit and then they started up when the actual old the old sensor dies.

Scott Benner 33:36
Because and Dexcom has been on and in the past obviously a lot and they've they've you know, I've been told more than once. Right? There's this there's this wire that goes in and it needs time to I mean, let's say acclimate to the interstitial fluid get wet. Yeah, I think it's soaking in right I think is the idea. It's I guess it's like, you know, it's it's like taking a log and dipping it in water and pulling it back out right away. The logs not wet in the middle from that, but if you throw it in there for a few hours, it'll soak through. Gabriella, I only calibrate within plus or minus 30% of Dexcom readings directionally towards my readings directionally towards my meter, I don't get into calibration loops as a result. Have you ever seen a calibration loop personally? Where it asks you to calibrate you calibrate and then it tells you to calibrate again?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:28
I have not not with G six. I have had that with G five. But again, not often either with that,

Scott Benner 34:34
I think I've seen it. I honestly have to say maybe twice. And we've gotten out of both of them by being persistent and and doing it. Here's a question for you. Let's say you calibrate and let's I'm gonna try to make up a number here. So let's just say your blood sugar's really 90. The Dexcom says Is your 120 and you put in 90, and it says 110. You know, if you put in 90 Again, it will agree with you, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:11
It did not done that a

Scott Benner 35:13
double calibration on close numbers, forces it to agree. Now, the question my head always is, does it stick then is that right to do? Or is it just making me feel better? And all I can say is that when I do that, things go okay afterwards, but I don't know if that's right or wrong. This is probably right, where I'm thinking right now people are listening. And they're just like, they're pulling their hair out and punching the dashboard of their car. And they're like, such bad information. Let's keep this in mind. I'm just telling you what I've done in the past. I'm not telling you to roll. I'm certainly not saying Dexcom says to do it. We're having a long conversation here about what other people do because it's such a varied thing. Don't do it if you don't like it, like, you know, or try it once and see what happens. I don't know. But I don't even know if the outcomes right or not. I do know that it makes me comfortable that you've

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:07
done it a couple of times. So it's Yeah, seems like it works when you've done it.

Scott Benner 36:12
Well I've done it enough to say it out loud and let my voice be recorded while I'm doing it. Yeah, I willy nilly on here yelling about diabetes stuff.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:19
Right? Right. Yeah, I I've never tried that. I guess the next time that I feel like it warrants a give it a whirl. See what happens. Mike, give that a whirl and see how that works out especially at two o'clock in the morning. I'm like, I'm not Oh.

Scott Benner 36:36
Elena says I don't calibrate I find that calibrating leads to far more inaccuracy than just letting it go. With that said, I do think the first 24 hours or so of a new sensor can be rough. And it eventually works itself out. Tarot, we check on the first day. If it is 20 Points off. We calibrate. And if it helps, and if it helps it not to be so wonky that day. Any other time we spot check it, it's right on. That'll stop it. She's saying okay. Molly, I have never had to calibrate. And when I test as long as my arrow is stable on my Dexcom they match within three to eight points. Wow.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:17
That's great. Oh, God, I think you know, and I think a big piece of this too, which has now been commented a couple of times by people is hydration. That is a and I know we've talked about it before I've mentioned it before that is just enormously important. And I think especially for for kids, little kids who you kind of have to coax them to drink more, right? And remind them I mean, kids without diabetes, I don't even think parents pay attention, honestly, to how much their kid is drinking through the course of the day. But kids with diabetes, certainly, especially with the fluxes that they have in their blood sugar. Hydration is huge. And then you've got kids who are very into sport. I mean, they might be doing something for four hours, you know, four times a week. Make sure they're drinking. Yeah, absolutely. So but for sensor specific, though hydration is so important.

Scott Benner 38:17
Well, you know, your point is well taken because today in the in the private Facebook group for the podcast it somebody asked about their creatine been been creatine or something like that, like yeah, they're

Jennifer Smith, CDE 38:29
creatine been is. Yeah, blood urea nitrogen is what it stands. Thank

Scott Benner 38:33
you, Jenny. And everyone who came in who had any kind of a medical background was like, Look, if I was you, I would just make sure I'm hydrated. You know, Natasha says, we used to try to calibrate after the first 24 hours if Dex was still over 20% off for the last sensor change. We did a pre soak Oh, see that? The new sensor, they soak their sensor overnight, and then snapped in the transmitter in the morning. And it worked without calibrating the x was very close to the Contour. Next One, thank you for the plug once the 24 hours past nice X was also less jumpy during the 24 hours. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:11
I've seen that too. That's actually an interesting comment. You know, with G six, the the system has smoothed the data, right? So you get this smoother trendline with less jagged down, but a lot of people have questioned in that first like Let's even say 12 hours. Some people do get that like that little object where you can see that the numbers those little dots every five minutes they are more up down up down versus this nice smooth into each other. So that's interesting that somebody kind of commented on that.

Scott Benner 39:50
Well someone comes in and asks Do you can you explain pre soaking and she Natasha went on and said before the current sensor expires, apply the new sensor but not but do not move the transmitter. So the type, so the type one will still be wearing two sensors one active one inactive for a period of time, this gives the new sensor a chance to acclimate for longer than the standard two hour warm up period. If you do this, be sure to cover the new sensor to protect the delicate electronics. We use a band aid Oh, a band aid i Yeah, this is completely off label. Obviously, most of our base of the podcast is off label right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:25
I would expect that a band aid that's one of those like larger band aids would probably be the better option just to really protect that internal part of the sensor. Because you know, the funny thing about G six, and I didn't realize it initially after I started to wear it, but G six has this like sticky stuff. Like inside. And when you remove your transmitter, you can see it on there. And that's why you have to clean the transmitter off every time you take it off. Does

Scott Benner 40:53
it remind you of like petroleum jelly or something? I don't know what it is, though.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:56
Yeah, it's like Carmex or like, you know, like, yeah, like petroleum jelly gynae.

Scott Benner 41:03
I, I definitely know what you're talking about. Yeah, it. Listen, Linda, we never calibrate. And I have to say to their sensors for weeks in a row that we don't calibrate. Like, I don't need most like, this is interesting to do. But I'm not a person who's in a position of saying, Oh, wow, we really need to figure out what works. Because what works for us is, you know, like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:28
do what works for you. And you might have censored a sensor that one. One, I guess, idea of what to do with this particular issue. It could be different three months down the road when you've got another sensor.

Scott Benner 41:42
Oh, can you get sorry?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:45
I thought I had it turned off. But yeah, it might be three months down the road that it's a completely different calibration need, right that you do something completely different this time versus the last time that you needed to calibrate.

Scott Benner 42:00
Yeah, there's three people here, Irene, Jeanette, and Jolie. And they all say the same thing. Like, once in a while, like I put along that works great. But sometimes I get it where it asks me to calibrate twice after a warm up, even though it's not supposed like, have you seen that. And if

Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:14
I have and I didn't see that until Gosh, a cup, maybe it was the beginning of this summer that I put a sensor on. I gave it the code and accepted the code. And after the two hours, it was like, You need to calibrate with it with two finger sticks. And I was like, but I fed you a code and then it I believe it's every 24 hours then if it didn't, for some reason register the code even though it told you you did, you'll get the two hour warm up two finger stick and after that once a day, you'll get a request for another calibration every 24 hours with a new sensor.

Scott Benner 42:48
Okay, how amazing is all this by the way for it? Listen, for those of you who have walked into diabetes during the time of glucose monitoring, you're probably thinking, you know, oh, that sounds like a problem. And for anyone, Jenny or me with Arden, who were around before this, I think this is all like astonishingly amazing and just magical. You know? Danielle, we rarely check with a finger poke. We only check when we are surprised by what Dexcom is telling us. I think that's important to remember. That is exactly how I feel about it. It's that like when I don't know how to I don't know how I know. But when I don't trust it, I don't trust it. And right, you get that over time. I think

Jennifer Smith, CDE 43:30
it's kind of like with the ones that as you said they start up and it just reads like ello W Yeah, your low your blood sugar is like 39 I'm like, Yeah, I don't feel 39 I know. I mean, I have you know symptoms, thankfully for low blood sugar still. And I would know a 39 I mean, I really would. And so I can be like yeah, that's totally wrong. I'm gonna do a finger stick and it's going to come back at like 78 or like maybe 90 or something you know. So symptoms are another piece to it as well if you are feeling very differently than what the CGM is telling you. Even if you haven't done a finger stick in three months. Yep, figure out where your glucometer is.

Scott Benner 44:10
Go find that first. Megan says I don't calibrate if it's an accurate we go off finger sticks. Excuse me, why can't I say finger sticks until Dexcom becomes accurate? My daughter has been wearing Dexcom for two years. I only calibrate if it's off by more than 50 points which is rare. And I only calibrate when the the error was level was he says I've never calibrated a Dexcom CGM. Wow, yeah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:40
That's amazing. Yeah. Must have been must be somebody then who's never been on G five because that required

Scott Benner 44:45
you to have calibration, right? Yeah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:48
Although interestingly, I have had people who've worn GE five who have said they want it back calibrate. I just don't calibrate it. I've just let it and honestly the system will All, it will keep running unlike G four, and the previous, if you didn't calibrate it, it would just stop giving you information. G five would keep giving you data. Okay, it would keep asking for calibrations, but it wouldn't. It wouldn't stop giving you data. Well,

Scott Benner 45:16
you're right. You're 100%, right. Oh, I remember that too. Yeah. Okay. Sara in the morning with no carbs or insulin on board with a level arrow. So we're starting to see some similarities with people's answers that are that are repeating over

Jennifer Smith, CDE 45:31
I mean, I think if you could put it together in a simple, it would probably be one be hydrated, yep. To make sure that the glucose value is stable, or that you're in a stable time period, meaning you haven't eaten like the whole basket of like, chicken fries, and like ice cream, and now you're waiting for your sensor to give you good data. Right? Well,

Scott Benner 45:50
I'll tell you what, there's a couple of there's a couple of statements in here that really does shine a light on what anecdotal information is, because there's a person and they're even putting a laughy face in it, who says, I usually only need it during the first sensor session with a new transmitter. I feel like the new transmitter needs a few days to learn me, the transmitter has nothing to do with the measurement of your blood sugar. It's just sending the signal right to but even so that's it right? Like you see something over and over again. And if you misconstrue it, all of a sudden you feel like it's a roll. You know? It's like when people's likes Murphy's Law. Oh, that thing? Always. I love it. When people say this about diabetes, this stuff always goes wrong at the worst times. And to that I always respond, what would a good time be for it to go wrong? Right? Every time feels like a bad time. Exactly. Yeah. Going along and living your life and then all of a sudden, something you're counting on stops working. There's a good time for that.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:53
You're always stinks no matter if it's two o'clock in the morning or when you're on the beach vacation or your whatever, in the middle of a basketball tournament. It's never a good time.

Scott Benner 47:05
Jeff Brent and Jaya, I don't calibrate.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 47:11
If I'm curious for those who are not calibrating

Scott Benner 47:14
how close they're a once the match is there?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 47:17
I'd be curious about that. But I'd also be curious if they're also people that may not be doing finger sticks. So they may not really know if their sensor is really off. Yeah, I mean, because, you know, having had diabetes as long as I have. I didn't have sensors for a good majority of my life with diabetes. It didn't. And I mean, my first sensor was in 2006. That's when I first started using them. And so I was always, I still am, I still do finger sticks during the day, even if it's not to check my CGM. It's because it's time to eat. And I'm so programmed. I'm just programmed to do a finger stick, I can do a finger stick when I wake up in the morning, I do a finger stick at lunchtime. I do a finger stick at dinnertime. I always do it before I go to bed. And I'll even do more than that during the day with exercise, right? And I just it's just a routine. It's like brushing my teeth. It's not something I think about anymore. So I think that I'm also a little bit more in tune then with Oh, my CGM is reading this. My finger stick was this, you know, and for those who pump especially if you're relying on the CGM, but you've not really been doing finger sticks, and you're kind of wondering Why will my GMI from Dexcom is telling me this is my average. But every time I get my a one C done, Gosh, it looks like I'm a lot higher. Yeah, well, it. It could just be that CGM just isn't reading you, as accurately. Do you remember

Scott Benner 48:53
a long time ago in the original Omni pod? PDM. There was the meter. Yeah. And that the meter wasn't it wasn't great. And so that's how I figured it out. Right. So how did I figure out the meter wasn't great, because Ardens a one C kept coming back higher than it should and it didn't matter. This is before CGM. And it didn't match what the finger sticks. Were telling me. And that's when

Jennifer Smith, CDE 49:20
I figure out how to play with the kalam Yeah, then you change

Scott Benner 49:22
the calibration code and the meter works better. And so I used to it was 17 or 18 Right? All the all the test strips for the Omnipod PDM are code 1616 And some people change the meter to code 17 And some people change the meter to code 18 depending on which ends up being more accurate for them. We were 18 I know a lot of people were 17 Yes, I was 18 Yes. And then Ardens a once he started matching my expectations just like that, so you can be mad about it if you want but at this point now that meters a decade old, and you know and so the people were like I can't believe that the new dash doesn't have a meter on it. You You don't want a meter in your technology because the meter keeps getting older. All of our new technology now is updatable, right? It's like your iPhone, you want to put a new operating system on it, you can a new app. But if you stick a physical piece of equipment into it like a meter, now suddenly you're stuck with that meter forever. And that's, that's I don't think that's a good play. And I think that's why if I had to guess why on the pod took it out, I think that's one of the reasons. It could be. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 50:29
I mean, it's also the reason I think that they've decided, you know, now when you get Omnipod, the dash system, you get the Contour. Next One, right.

Scott Benner 50:37
And the PDM is now really just sort of like a lockdown Android device. Right? Right, exactly. But it's it. But the point is, is that I saw that as far as moving on, I kept thinking like, Oh, my God, this meters Old, old, old, and I felt tied to it at that point. You know, I am. I hate to say this, but I am so much more happy with the Contour Next One than I was with the PDM meter. Back in the day, I'm thrilled with it. And I think that to people listening probably were like, Oh, my God, Scott's taking a meter ad. We know he uses Dexcom, he probably doesn't even use a meter, we use a meter every time we need a meter. And it's a lot more than you think it is. And it's not because Dexcom is not great. It's for the reasons Jenny just said. So I was actually kind of

Jennifer Smith, CDE 51:21
curious, you know, I my insurance doesn't cover the Contour. Next One I wish it did. It covers the accucheck Guide me, which is another very similar to the contour its accuracy kind of parallels, right. But the interesting thing is, I do have a Contour Next One. And I had like the sample bottle of test strips that kind of comes with it. And so I played once I got my accucheck I was like, I'm just curious. And they were pretty spot on with each other, quite honestly, which was nice to see. But also then went back to my old school PDM and my freestyle light test strips and and I figured out that actually that code 18 is the one if it was the code 18 It was within like two to five points of the Contour. Next One, the accucheck. Yep. So that's old school as it is. Code. I

Scott Benner 52:11
know. I know. That doesn't make sense to a lot of people. But code 18 for code 16 strips in the old PDM perfect for Arden was the way to go. You know what's interesting here, here, I have three people in a row who I know are not old school diabetes people but been added a long time right people whose comments that I'll pay attention to when I see them roll by Jen, a big note a calibration, Shawn, personally, I would never use the G six without calibrating. And then the third person reads as we calibrate if readings are off by more than 20%. But it doesn't happen that often. These are three people whose opinion, I think are probably pretty good. And they said three different things.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 52:52
And they all do it differently. And I think it's also kind of as I commented earlier about mice a good number of my sensors, like just being done on day eight. I think it goes back to the the truth in that the sensor filament interacts with everybody's body system, body tissue, interstitial fluid, whatever you're going to call it a bit differently. I think that's the reason some sensor systems work beautifully for some people, and not so beautiful. For others. I've got friends who love their Medtronic sensors get really awesome accuracy finger stick CGM. It's always on they don't have any problems with their systems. I could not get that thing to work for me. For the life of me and I wore both my sensors. I wore Medtronic and Dexcom. And it just never want to work

Scott Benner 53:45
for as good. You know, here's another name that I Kristen who I know. And she says I've never calibrated I do not believe my blood. Here's why. I do not believe my blood glucose meter to be more accurate than my Dexcom. So she just doesn't have probably that she can confidence in her meter. And some people don't think about that. They're just like, yeah, I checked it. So the meter the meter is like God, you know, the meter said, so the meters right? Well, you know, some of those meters. If you've seen the testing, I brought it up recently on an episode. There's I think the last one was like 2018, right? And it kind of ranked them only like six meters even ranked in like I would use this if I was you. All the other ones were like don't buy this meter. Right. The variance was way off. Yeah, right. Well, okay, we're out of time, aren't we? Because we're also at the end of the list, and I only had you for an hour today. So I actually got down to the list. There's people's I'm sorry, I skipped some that obviously were repetitive. But yeah, like Jenny said in the middle. I think that what works for you is important that checking with a quality meter is important. And it seems that you know the consensus seems to be if you're going to calibrate make sure you're high hydrated at a stable blood sugar before exercise, no active insulin, that kind of stuff. So the thing has a chance to

Jennifer Smith, CDE 55:09
get a lead correctly from the beginning. Yeah.

Scott Benner 55:12
I wonder if we'll get yelled out about this? I don't think so. We were very clear. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 55:17
I don't think I mean, it's not like we're saying, This is what you should definitely be doing. 100% to make. I mean, that's not this is not medical advice. This is just discussion.

Scott Benner 55:26
Jennifer, this is a work culture. Okay, if you say something out loud that somebody doesn't agree with. You're trying to ruin the world, don't you understand? All right. Listen, I want to wish you a lot of luck changing your light bulb. And I really wish I knew your husband, because I would go behind your back and tell him that you don't change.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 55:46
Like I will, he will laugh at me. He'll be like, Who do you see this little like thing on the side? This is very, like, pull it off. And so I'm like, scouring.

Scott Benner 55:54
Well, listen, I'm gonna help you for a little bit before you go. He's get up on a ladder and look around the ridge at the ceiling to see if there's little set screws that are holding the whole thing

Jennifer Smith, CDE 56:03
or not. There are no screws, there's nothing. So then it's

Scott Benner 56:07
got to be. Did you twist it for? I don't want you to twist it out of the ceiling.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 56:12
Yeah, I twisted the glass part of it, which is would be the next option. Because I've seen the glass bulbs that just twist off, right? This one is either really screwed in unbelievably tight, which I guess might be the case. Or maybe I'm just too worried to try to unscrew it or like, heavier because I don't want it to crack in my hand. Here are my

Scott Benner 56:32
two thoughts. When you're trying to turn it is the base the metal base turning with it? No. Okay. So maybe you have I don't think you have to turn the base. But what I am thinking is, is it possible that it's a reverse

Jennifer Smith, CDE 56:45
thread? Oh, counterclockwise?

Scott Benner 56:49
Do you have to turn it the other way opposite. I wish you had enough time I would like to make you go up right now and turn it and see if it comes off. But instead I will just wait for your text message later. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 56:58
I will let you know whether I required help to change the light bulb or not.

Scott Benner 57:02
I 100% agree you shouldn't tell anybody about this. That's all. Yeah, all right. Well, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 57:09
absolutely. Have a good weekend. Okay, bye.

Scott Benner 57:14
Hey, everybody, Jenny's gone. I'm still here. We're gonna do everybody's favorite podcast thing I'm gonna read to you for a second this is from dexcom.com. In their frequently asked questions. The question is, is my Dexcom sensor accurate heading Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring system reading and meter value. Whether you're new to Dexcom, or experience, review product instructions before using the Dexcom G six. Keep using your blood glucose meter to make treatment decisions until you know how Dexcom works for you. Your meter gives you one number if you test twice, using the same or even different meter, it gives you another number and your Dexcom G six gives you a third. What do you do with all those numbers? Next heading is the test. The test your doctor does is considered a more accurate glucose number than any products you use at home. Both meters and Dexcom G six are compared to that doctors test to measure accuracy in clinical studies. They aren't compared to each other. Because of this, the Dexcom G sex reading and meter value are unlikely to be exactly the same number, but they should be close. Compare the meter and your Dexcom G six to see how closely the numbers match each other. If your G six reading and meter value are within what we call the 20 rule, also known as the 20% 20 rule, they match closely. Here's the rule. To use the 20 rule follow the steps using the table below my gosh there's a Table Lookup your meter value in the green middle column. The left G six column shows the low range for G six reading that okay, you're gonna have to go look at this yourself. I'll put a link in the show notes for this 2020 rule goes on to talk about good fingerstick practices. When you're using your meter. Make sure your test strips are stored as directed and not expired. Your hands are clean for finger sticks. Wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water, not hand gel and dry them then test. There are times when the numbers temporarily don't match, but are likely to become closer over time. For example, the sensors first day. With newly inserted sensors the difference between your meter value and your G six reading may be greater. Generally the match gets closer over the first 24 hours. Glucose changes quickly. When your glucose is changing quickly. It is more difficult to compare numbers. The meter and Dexcom G six measure glucose from different sources. They are blood in interstitial fluid and blood glucose changes a little before interstitial fluid. The match gets closer and easier to compare. When your glucose stabilizes pressure on the sensor when something is pressing on your sensor it can affect 36 readings the match should get closer after the pressure is relieved. That of course is what people call a compression low. So everything they're saying here matches pretty much everything that we found talking to Jenny, my experiences and what everybody in the Facebook page was saying. To determine what to do watch a G six readings over several hours. If the readings are always higher or always lower than your meter values, and always outside of the 20 rule, consider calibrating. Also consider calibrating if your Dexcom G six and meter numbers don't match, and your expectations or symptoms fit the meter value, not the G six reading calibration. Calibrating your G six with your meter is never required, it can make the Dexcom G six more accurate or less accurate compared to lab results, but it should bring the G six reading closer to the meter. When calibrating make sure you enter the calibration within five minutes of taking the finger stick. You don't calibrate during a sensor error. If you like you can calculate the 20 rule on your own. The Dexcom G six reading must be within 20% of the meter value when the meter value is 80 MG DL or higher 20 MG dl of the meter value when the meter value is under 80. Please note that the information listed here is applicable to the Dexcom CGM user within the US only. I cannot just read you this link. Because it is it looks very maybe I can hold on one second. So it's dexcom.com forward slash FAQ s forward slash is dash my dash Dexcom dash sensor dash accurate. Like I said I'll put a link in the show notes huge thanks to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode. Go to contour next one.com Ford slash juicebox To learn more, and thanks to touch by type one.org For being such a wonderful long term friend of the show. Check them out touched by type one.org. Of course if you'd like to get a Dexcom CGM dexcom.com forward slash juice box you can get a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box take the survey AT T one D exchange.org forward slash juice box guys ready to hear Jenny admit the not being able to do something that I think she's kind of embarrassed about and some other chitter chatter. If you're looking for bonus material, I got you covered.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:02:44
I'm fed children I've gotten them changed. I've wiped but I have washed my hands and then I picked my tomato isn't my peppers from my garden and

Scott Benner 1:02:56
it was how did you get up? Six o'clock. Oh, so last night. That was seven o'clock your time. Last night. Last night as Arden's pump was winding down. I was like it'll make it overnight. Then her CGM and her CGM men, right. And we changed our CGM around seven o'clock and it was done. It lasted the entire, you know, 10 days. It was working great right when it shut off. And we hit like a little bit of a bleeder I was like, ah, that'll probably be okay. So it comes on in two hours. And Arden's CGM starts are all exactly the same. It comes on, knows her blood sugar perfectly. And within an hour tells me she's low and she's not. And then we we coax it along and get it going, and it's fine. So this happens. Around midnight, I go to sleep. And at 2am Kelly wakes me up and she goes, Hey, I need help we changed Arden's pump, because her blood sugar was going up. And her CGM has lost that signal. And I was like, Okay, no problem. I'll take care, but you go back to sleep. And I did take care of a Jenny. And then I went back to sleep at 6am. I was up for four hours in the middle of the night. And no, and it just, it would come back and it would go away and it would come back and it would go away. But I'm I know it's gonna be all right. And if this would have happened in the middle of the day, I want to be clear that this doesn't happen often. Does it just happen this time at a really bad time? But since it did happen, I know what I want to talk about today.

Speaker 2 1:04:43
Oh, great. And while we're doing that, I'm going to actually I've got like I have so many chords.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:52
What was going on? What

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:04:52
is the deal with chords?

Scott Benner 1:04:55
The room is cleaned up though it's different.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:04:57
Oh, oh because we are are putting in new floors. Oh, this room, no campus. This is the bigger of we put a new floors in our living room. They're like, we are purging our home of carpet.

Scott Benner 1:05:12
Okay, blah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:05:16
So living room got done. Now we're moving on to the space that has been my office which interestingly has been, it's the bigger of the two like spare bedrooms, right? Okay. And so we're going to put new floors in here. And then we're going to put new floors in what is now the room that the boys technically share. Okay, we're gonna then transition rooms. I'm gonna take that room, which is actually the smaller they're gonna we're gonna move their stuff in this room and this is the bigger of soap.

Scott Benner 1:05:50
You're under. Well, listen, we your fun stuff. To me. I know there's nothing like being an adult is there? We just ordered a folding state floor for Arden's room. And she very Arden just picked this floor that wasn't very expensive. So we were like, okay, yeah, you can have she's like, Can I do this? And when she picked that one, we're like, yes, you can. And you absolutely can. But we're replacing we. It's funny, you said this we wanted to replace, we have hardwood through most of our house. So the kids bedrooms and this room, amen. is carpeted. And then our living room is carpeted. But everything else has Tyler or wood. And we wanted to make the living room, tile or wood or something. We weren't really sure what. Because the one one of the bonehead mistakes we made when we put the house together was we bought this carpeting and didn't realize and dog owners will know right away, you don't buy looped carpeting with a dog right. And we didn't know that our carpet cats or I think the over under on poles that I fixed in that carpet have to be in the 1000s you know, or sometimes the dog's leash or something gets caught on he runs away and just yanks out like six inches of carpet and I actually get back down on my hands knees with a hot glue gun and toothpicks and put each one back in again. Right.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:07:16
Hi, God, you have so much more time than me.

Scott Benner 1:07:18
Oh my god. The other option was the other option would have been to burn the house down. It was like right in the middle of the room. You know, like I was like we got to get out of here. It was just really bad. And so we can afford to put wood down or what we wanted to put down in there right now. So we just went out and bought like a really inexpensive piece of carpet and it's being delivered in a couple of days. I can't believe we're doing flooring at the same time. At same

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:07:42
time. Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen the floor in that room. Usually there's like a nice couch behind you. And that's all I see besides like,

Scott Benner 1:07:51
yeah, well my son stole the couch, just so you know. So that's gone now. He's like, I'm gonna take this sofa into my room because and he's home forever. So we're like, Alright, he's gonna take the candles, you know? So he's got that. And I have all of Arden's junk in here because we're waiting for the flooring to be put in her room so it's a bit of a disaster. Anyway,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:08:12
but I was gonna say I'm gonna get yet another cord totally forgot to plug the cord for the computer like direct connect in so give me a sec yeah sure

Scott Benner 1:08:29
I make Jenny plug her I don't let her use Wi Fi while we're doing this. So she's dragging an Ethernet cable across the room.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:08:37
And I also realized that I have no clue how to change the lights.

Scott Benner 1:08:42
What do you want to change in there? What do you mean we want

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:08:45
I want light bulbs in the ceiling died I cannot figure out how to get

Scott Benner 1:08:54
What are you talking about? Let me say

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:08:57
I don't know how to get it off. I have no idea

Scott Benner 1:09:01
is there no screw in the middle of it?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:09:03
There's no screws I've tried to turn in the glass doesn't unscrew. I don't know what to do with still. I have a big ol like floor lamp in here now. So like actually have Why have you

Scott Benner 1:09:19
brought anyone else into? Try to figure it out?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:09:23
No. I should ask. I know I should ask my husband. Do

Scott Benner 1:09:28
you not want to tell your husband you can't figure out how to change the light bulbs. Right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:09:34
Like I'm not this dumb. Like I don't know what the deal is. So

Scott Benner 1:09:37
you're not wrong. It's isn't glass. It's a dome right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:09:42
And it's glass right so it's like the wrong move. Like I just I think I also need to get like a taller.

Scott Benner 1:09:48
Are you reaching this? Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:09:50
because I've got just the basic level, which this stool has worked fine for all of the other like ceiling things right? So why wouldn't it work for this

Scott Benner 1:09:59
long Has the light bulb in that light been working for you? This is the first time you tried to change it is

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:10:05
we moved in. It'll be October 1 will be two years in this house. And we've not changed the light bulbs in this light since

Scott Benner 1:10:17
because that's good run.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 1:10:19
Right? Good lights, I guess you know, but I also don't get used that very that often. Because I'm really on this in this room during the daytime. Okay, and so unless it's really dark in here, I typically don't usually use them. But anyway, yeah, cool.

Scott Benner 1:10:39
All right, listen, let's try to bring your yes, your bring your microphone a little closer. Do you know sir, to me, is that better? Try again. Better. Yes. That's okay. There's the spot. So hopefully we've answered some of your questions today about how to calibrate or not calibrate your Dexcom G six and the other burning question. How many people does it take to change a light bulb in Jenny's house? As of now we know the answer to be more than one. If Jenny's involved in it's in her office. Thanks so much for listening to the Juicebox Podcast. Please take the time to share the show with a friend. And leave a wonderful five star review on Apple podcasts if you're so inclined. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Best of the Juicebox Podcast. I hope you understand better now the process of calibrating your Dexcom G six. And I also hope that you're interested in learning more about the Omni pod five, or the Omni pod dash? Don't forget to use my link Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox would you like to save 35% on this sweatshirt that I'm wearing here? Are these silky joggers? Am I rubbing my legs while I'm saying it? I'm not gonna tell you because it sounds creepy, but they're super soft, cozy earth.com Save 35% at checkout with the offer code juicebox. And of course, you can get 10% off your first month of therapy at better help.com forward slash juicebox. Just by going through that link. It's all you have to do. If you'd like to know more about better help, there's going to be a short explanation at the end of this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation and you're not in my private Facebook group, it's absolutely free. And I think you would love it Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook private group 35,000 Plus members. That's over 35,000 members, tons of conversations, opinions, perspectives, and great conversation absolutely free. Go check it out. If you enjoy the Juicebox Podcast or this episode or any episode, please go into the audio app you're listening in and leave a five star rating and a thoughtful review that will help someone else to understand why you love the podcast. The podcast is sponsored today by better help. Better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox to get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy. That way BetterHelp can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. You can message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Talk to them however you feel comfortable text chat phone or video call. If your therapist isn't the right fit for any reason at all. You can switch to a new therapist at no additional charge. And the best part for me is that with better help you get the same professionalism and quality you expect from in office therapy. But with a therapist who is custom picked for you, and you're gonna get more scheduling flexibility, and a more affordable price. I myself have just begun using BetterHelp betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox that's better help h e l p.com. Forward slash juice box save 10% On your first month of therapy