Scott Benner 5/10/22 Scott Benner 5/10/22

#679 I Choose Leah

Amy's daughter Leah has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 679 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show I'll be speaking with Amy, she is the mother of Leah. Leah is the one with type one diabetes, and so many different things. I almost call this episode spicy child panic room. But in the end, I chose Lia. Please remember while you're listening, that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox now and fill out the survey, the survey will take you fewer than 10 minutes and you will be helping people with type one diabetes. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. Spicy child there were a lot of good options in this one you'll see.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by us med you can get your diabetes supplies at US med us med always provides 90 days worth of supplies and fast free shipping. To find out more and get your free benefits check. Go to us med.com Ford slash juice box or call 888721151 For me, I didn't start the recording because we had to shut the thing down and start it back up again. I'm shooting Oh my God. All right. Oh, no.

Amy 2:19
Okay, or we can start over this

Scott Benner 2:21
does not happen often. You were doing so it's recording now. I am mortified. Hold on. No. No. Are you kidding? What if I wouldn't have looked up in the first couple of minutes? What if like an hour from now we were like, Oh my God. What did that mean? You're like, well, that's how your face ended up on the Washington. Yeah,

Amy 2:41
I'm not I'm not gonna call my child the demons seeds. So.

Scott Benner 2:47
Now this part has to stay in, so I'll beat that out. Don't worry. Okay, Amy, I'm trying to think of the best way to do this. I don't want to make you restyle

Amy 2:58
it's fine. I can shorten it a little bit. You know,

Scott Benner 3:00
I just I don't want to put you in a weird position where you're like, Oh, God, I just had this three seconds ago. Give me a second now. I'm I'm old. I my adrenaline's pumping. I just broke out like one of those little flop sweats. I was like, guys so disappointed in myself. Hold on. It's totally. I stare at this screen four to five times a week, and I watch it go past me and I'm looking at it and I'm like, What's it not doing that? It usually does? Oh, yeah. Recording. Okay, real quick. So I'm so embarrassed. Introduce yourself again.

Amy 3:35
I'm sorry. Okay, you ready?

Scott Benner 3:37
I am. Sarcasm maybe? No, no.

Amy 3:41
Not at all. All right. Okay. Hi. I'm Amy, and I'm a mom of three kids. I have a 16 year old daughter, 13 year old son, and a 10 year old daughter and she is my type one.

Scott Benner 3:57
Okay. Boy, I'm so irritated with myself right now. I gotta let it go. Let me shake my network. Let it go. Let it fall. Good. Do this one time. She looked very relaxed when it was over. But so it's probably easier for her to forget things. Don't you think? A billion dollars you can just shrug things off a little easier.

Amy 4:17
100%.

Scott Benner 4:18
So Leah was diagnosed last year during the summer? Yes. Is that correct? I do want to hear the part that you told me before. So you shared that since she's been a little kid. What did you tell me? Her teachers told you?

Amy 4:35
Yeah. So when Leah was in preschool, her first year of preschool, her three year old class went to pick her up one day and her teacher was like, I'm really worried about Leah. She's thirsty all the time. She's going to the bathroom all the time. That's a sign of diabetes. And I was like, Okay, and so I took her to the doctor. She's like, you know, you should get her checked. So I took her to the doctor and I said her preschool teacher thinks she has diabetes. So What do we need to do? And I had no clue. You know, I knew nothing about type one. And so, you know, my dad has type two, but I just wasn't, you know, anyway, so I knew it wasn't that. But so I took her to the doctor and they checked her urine and they're like, Nope, there's no glucose in her urine. She's fine. Everything's good. And then the next year and her four year old class, the other preschool teacher said, Leah's drinking and going to the bathroom all the time. And I was like, Well,

Scott Benner 5:31
last year, same preschool as the

Amy 5:34
Yeah, same preschool. Yeah. And so I took her to the doctor again, and they checked her urine, again, no glucose in the urine. They said she's fine. And then I want to say, at least one or two more times after that, I brought it up that she pees a lot and she drinks a lot, and she wets the bed a lot. And the doctor just kind of shrugged it off. And he was like, it's probably just behaviorally. Like she's too lazy to go to the bathroom. Like, I wasn't really and I just kind of accepted it. You know? I'm like, well, they they checked what they needed to check and I just kind of moved on. They never checked her blood, which in retrospect, I would have had them do. Um, well, then. Go ahead. Sorry,

Scott Benner 6:16
a behavioral thing, like so we're gonna get to it in a second. But Leah, streak in her. We're gonna call it for now. Right? She's,

Amy 6:24
she does. Yeah, I mean, I will say like, before she was diagnosed my husband and I would joke like, every day that she's alive, we lose a day of our life. We put her to bed at night. We're like, Oh, I just lost a day off the end. Because she, she's really before then. Before she was diagnosed, she was really, really difficult. And we had no idea why. But just really extreme mood swings, fighting with her siblings all the time. Like my first two kids. Like, I will honestly say, I cannot even remember them ever having to fight ever. Like they get along so well. And they're really easy to parent, great kids. And so I was just like, wow, we really the bed. I'm sorry, my lunch,

Scott Benner 7:17
if you want Sure.

Amy 7:19
And, you know, that's just kind of how I felt. I'm like, What did I do wrong? You know? And, yeah, so she's just always been really, really, I'll just say spicy, challenging, difficult.

Scott Benner 7:31
down to little things. Like if you said, Hey, can you throw me the remote? She'd be like, go to hell.

Amy 7:36
She would throw it out. No, she. I mean, she started like, you know, I mean, my older daughter has never said a cuss word never flipped me off. Never. But this one. I'd been I think she was like two or three. She would tell people she hated them. Sticking up her middle finger the wrong way. She would do it wrong. I was like, I'm gonna do it. How

Scott Benner 8:00
do you how do you do it wrong? She would like

Amy 8:02
hold her hands straight out and just stick out her middle finger straight out at me.

Scott Benner 8:07
Oh. Like she was the casting a spell on you. Like

Amy 8:11
that's what their middle finger? Yes. And so I was like, What did I do?

Scott Benner 8:21
You know, you went to a wedding and you drank too much apparently.

Amy 8:25
Well, you know what, what it was we had just moved into our house that we live in now. And it was like a three bedroom two bath. We're like oh my gosh, this house is so perfect. We have two kids three bedrooms.

Scott Benner 8:36
Bedroom got you or your husband? Did he do that thing? We should Chris in all the rooms in the house.

Amy 8:42
We didn't have cable for like two weeks. So that's what I blame it on. There was nothing else to do

Scott Benner 8:49
$200 and lost your sanity congratulate.

Amy 8:52
Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah. We've had to add on to our house like everything we had to get a bigger car because once you go to three kids it just you know you need a bigger car. You need a bigger house you need you know, and

Scott Benner 9:05
did the add on to the house for like a timeout room or a panic room we it goes off and everyone just runs to the panic room.

Amy 9:18
Yes, yes. Seriously? Oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 9:22
Even when she was like a little kid,

Amy 9:23
huh? You know, I will say she was the easiest baby like this sweetest, easiest baby. Super easy toddler. It was just once she hit three. So in my mind, I'm like wondering if and I don't even and of course the doctor is like, no way but I'm a touchy. I've had diabetes back then. And maybe just

Scott Benner 9:42
it's like, maybe like her blood. Yeah. Isn't fall.

Amy 9:46
Yeah. And maybe her she wasn't totally because even when she was diagnosed, she was she wasn't in DKA her agency was eight, you know? And she had she was not in DKA they sent me home you know Like after two hours, they sent us home. And then we had to go back the next day for training. But yeah, I mean, I just wonder if her pancreas has been kind of, you know, going in and out for years? I don't know. Yeah, it just makes me wonder.

Scott Benner 10:15
So in the spot where I wasn't recording, you told a great story about taking her to the doctor to get. Yes. So you didn't you didn't see you didn't sniff out diabetes. First, you sniffed out celiac first, you said because you have a friend whose children had celiac and it made you think about it. So they Yes. Tell me about that for a second.

Amy 10:36
Right. So you know, I was just noticing things about her where she was just after she would eat, she would say her stomach her. And she kind of looked like she was losing weight. And I would catch her eating like spoonfuls of sugar. And I was like, What is going on? And so to me, my mind went like, oh, like nutrient deficiency, which happens when you have celiac. And so my friend's daughter had been recently diagnosed. And we, like I said, we always follow the same pattern. Like she had a daughter, I had a daughter, she had a son, I listen, she had the third surprise, baby, I had the third surprise baby. So I'm like, Oh, your daughter got an autoimmune disease. Mine probably does, too. The only pattern we haven't followed is that her husband is gay now. I mean,

Unknown Speaker 11:24
hey, it ain't over yet.

Amy 11:29
We my kids joke. They're like, lose dad coming out.

Scott Benner 11:34
Get your friend, a lottery or something that would really by

Amy 11:36
No, I know. I'm like, I'm done copying you. Okay. Like,

Scott Benner 11:42
I want to immediately hang up with you and call her instead and talk to her all about that. I would love to hear about.

Amy 11:47
Oh, yes. Very interesting. But they're our best friends. And so yeah, we joke all the time. And, and she's like, Oh, it's never gonna come out with with, with Eric. It's not coming out even if he is

Scott Benner 12:00
your husband. Yes. She believes that even if your husband was gay, he wouldn't tell anyone. Right. I don't know. I hope he does. By the way. I mean, I don't. I don't hope he comes out. But I hope if he's living in a closeted life that he he

Amy 12:15
I would be I think I would be supportive. I don't know. No, I wouldn't

Scott Benner 12:20
be like, hey, what am I gonna do with all my life that I used up here? Yes. Yeah.

Amy 12:24
These 18 years exactly. Forget the gay part

Scott Benner 12:27
like any of it like I would. I'd be upset if Kelly walked and I'll tell you what Kelly said something to me one time broke my heart. She's broken my heart a number of times, but this one specifically. We're living you know, in a house

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At this point, I would like to talk about us met, you get your diabetes supplies from somewhere. If the place you get them is anything like the place where I used to get them. It wasn't fun, we're easy and often would have been frustrating. But at US med it won't be us med accepts Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and they want you to get better service and better care than what you're accustomed to. US med always provides 90 days worth of supplies and fast free shipping. They carry everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the latest and CGM like libre two and Dexcom G six. Get your free benefits check today at us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and at juicebox podcast.com to G voc hypo Penn, us mad and all of the sponsors. And don't forget to go to T one D exchange.org Ford slash juice box and take that survey. You know we bought together and the plan back then was little tiny house bigger piece of land at a town where it's hard to get a hold of land. So we buy this little house and the plan is we're gonna just knock it over one day like we're young. We're in our 20s But you know what I mean? We're gonna take these grand ideas, and we're like we're gonna we're gonna knock the house over one day and we are going To build a new house overtop of it, and we're living there for a long time before we even, like make a tiny bit of money to, like, try to even consider that. And one day she says to me, I hate this house. I'm like, what? And she was I never wanted to move in here. I was like, Well, you could have mentioned that before we bought the house, then we wouldn't have bought it. And she's like, it just like I really had like, a weird feeling of loss. I feel like the feeling I had that day would be the exact same thing if she walked up to me and was like, Hey, I'm gay, by the way, and I gotta go. By Yeah, I'd be like, Oh my god, like, because it's that feeling of wasted time. I hate that feeling.

Amy 15:39
Yeah, ya know, for sure. Especially like all your good years, you know?

Scott Benner 15:45
I don't know if it's wasted. Well, no, that's a tough call isn't wasted time. I don't know. Listen, we're gonna go down the wrong rabbit

Amy 15:53
hole. Yeah, that's another podcast. Speaking wrong,

Scott Benner 15:56
but I appreciate it when the humor hits immediately. Okay, so we should absorb that one for just another second. That was funny. Take the kids to the doctor's office for celiac. But you say yes. Good,

Amy 16:18
right. So I was like I told my, you know, my husband had been in the middle of working like two weeks straight, like 12 hour shifts. And I said, like, you have to come I know you're tired. But like, you have to come with me because it's going to take two of us to get blood from Leah. You know? And it it turned out it took four so we we get there and I just know from past it's like when she would go to get shots. She would like hide under the table under the chairs. It was she

Scott Benner 16:47
was always does she does she get like this she start boxing or does she just like

Amy 16:53
she's more like a like a curled up rigid body. Like drag her out? Yes, she does a little rigor mortis. And, yeah, and it's crazy. I'm like, you're small. But when you go rigor mortis, it's really hard to lift them up on a table. So I just knew with her and especially just where her behavior was at that time. I mean, obviously she was feeling horrible. I didn't know why. And so it took me my husband, my 16 year old and the nurse we all had to like hold different limbs and body parts. Just to get the blood from her first during that. I think she cursed at us after in the car.

Scott Benner 17:40
She wouldn't in the public. Yeah, she didn't wanna do it in public, right?

Amy 17:43
No, no, she would never do it in front of people. But yeah, I'm pretty sure in the car. She threw some stuff at

Scott Benner 17:49
me. By the way to know where to do it.

Amy 17:53
Yeah, it's just like I said, I really? Wow. I don't know. So

Scott Benner 18:01
she noticed about herself. And back then do you think?

Amy 18:07
Yeah, like I think she she knows she was difficult. Yeah. And I think she realizes it was mostly because she just didn't feel good because I will say she's she's still Leah, but it's way better than it was back then. She's still she's still this there are still some similar things. It's just not as extreme you know. And my oh my kids laugh because on the Dexcom app I have a sweet Leah and they just think that's hilarious.

Scott Benner 18:37
Picked sweet because of the sugar aspect of you.

Amy 18:41
Yes. Definitely. And maybe I'm like maybe it'll just come true one day.

Scott Benner 18:49
Willard, but would you I'm in a will will are into it. But the other so the other two kids are kind of more mellow or do you think they just appear mellow next Alia?

Amy 18:58
Um, no, they're really good. I mean, I have no no complaints. My daughter My other daughter was hard when she was little. pretty challenging until she was about like nine and so we kept waiting. We're like, okay, when's Lea gonna grow out of this, you know? And, ya know, so the other two are way more and like I said, they never fight there, you know, but it's like Leah just kind of brings the house down. We know she fights with everybody. She's

Scott Benner 19:26
when I when I was younger. I used to say one day Arden's gonna make some lucky guy very unhappy.

Amy 19:33
Yes. That'll Delia to yes. But if you ask my husband, he'll be he'll always say like, mother like daughter.

Scott Benner 19:44
So okay, let's dig into that for a second. I mean, were you

Amy 19:48
I mean, you know, I'm feisty. I can be feisty for sure. And my husband's very laid back. So yeah, we're good. Good combo.

Scott Benner 19:59
When should pops off. Do you ever think like, oh, I said that when I was little too.

Amy 20:04
You know, I wasn't like that when I was little was more like teenage you know? Yes. No, I was a pretty, pretty sweet kid. I think, you know, my we had teen parents and there were four of us. My mom had four kids by the time she was 22 Holy hell. Yeah. So it was it was crazy. So there was really no room for me to be like that, who was gonna listen to me? You know, kind of put up with my,

Scott Benner 20:29
I don't want to go down this. I just need to know was that for Jesus or by mistake?

Amy 20:33
That I'm totally by mistake, like, yeah, it just kept coming. I couldn't

Scott Benner 20:39
figure out how her vagina worked for I. I was like, um, every time I use it, a baby comes out of it.

Amy 20:50
I don't know what is happening. Yeah. That was funny, you know, because with our third, we weren't trying. And the doctor was like, oh, like, how long have you guys been trying? I'm like, Well, no, we weren't. And he was like, Well, no, you know how babies are made? You were trying? I was like, Well, okay, I guess I would make a baby. Yeah,

Scott Benner 21:09
maybe you were more like not trying not to have a baby.

Amy 21:11
Right. Exactly. Okay. Exactly.

Scott Benner 21:15
To the kid you find with the pipeline in the middle of COVID. Right? Yes. Yeah. So do you think that changes how the hospital approaches you? Or what happened during Well, I

Amy 21:25
mean, okay, so I, you know, they did blood work on all three kids, but they didn't do a finger stick on her. So it was like bloodwork that they sent to the lab. And the doctor called me the next morning, and I was on my way to work. And he was like, everything's fine. Like, the kids don't have celiac. But Leah's blood sugar was really high. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I like what does that mean? Oh, my gosh, did what did she eat yesterday? You know, what I'm thinking in my head. I'm like, well, she did have a few spoonfuls of sugar for breakfast. I don't do it. I don't. So then he's like, you know, you need to bring her back in. So I was like, on my way to work, and then so, but while I'm on my way to work, then my dad calls me and my dad's a type two diabetic, he's in an assisted living facility. And he sounds really funny on the phone. And he's like, I remember, my face was swollen. It was like, and I'm like, okay, and I had just, you know, got off the phone with Leah's doctor. And so now I'm like, Okay, I go, Well, what do you mean, he's like, my mouth is swollen, and I have like a rash on my face. And I was like, what? And I'm like, okay, and I haven't been able to see my depth because of COVID. And, you know, we would go drop off stuff to him and see him through the window. And that was about it. And so I was like, Okay, I'm like, I pull over. I'm like, Dad, FaceTime me. Let me see. So we FaceTime and it was like, horrible. Like he had, like this weird rash on his face that was turning black. His face was completely swollen. And I'm like, what, like, I can't. Now I'm like, I'm like, Oh, my goodness. So then I was like, Okay, Dad, you need to go to the doctor. I'm going to call you back. So I like hang up with my dad. I call my sister and I'm like, and I think in my heart, I knew high blood sugar meant she has diabetes. You know, I'm like, I just knew it. And I called my sister and she lives up about six hours north of us. We live in Los Angeles. And I'm like, Angela, Leah's blood sugar is really high. Dad's face is falling off. Like, I need help. Like, I don't know what to do. So she was like, Oh, my God, okay, I'm coming. So she got in her car and just drove down. And she was like, I'll deal with Dad, you take care of Leah. So I got to work. And I told my co workers what was going on, and I'm like, I need to go. I told her the doctor, but Okay, bye. So I leave, I come home, pick my daughter up. And my husband was home. He was kind of like napping. But the other kids were here. And so I grabbed Leah, and I say, hey, like, you know, we gotta go back to the doctor. And, you know, they just kind of found something that they want to recheck. I didn't want to scare her, you know. And I was a little worried about going by myself, but thankfully, it was just a finger prick. And they took her blood again, and it was, you know, like 289. And, and they were like, what did she have for breakfast? And I was like, well, she had a smoothie and a spoonful of sugar or two pancreas. Yeah. And so he was very calm. And he was just like, you know, I think we're, we're catching something here, but it's early. So you're gonna have to just, you know, go to Children's Hospital, and I was like, oh, like, make an appointment. He's like, no, like, you need to go right now. And I'll call them let them know you're coming. And I was like, what?

Scott Benner 24:46
Don't want to do that because there's an impending zombie apocalypse my father.

Amy 24:52
Yeah. Okay, so then I go home and I wake up my husband and I knew what's COVID They're not gonna let him come with me. Ah, you know, and he had to go to work anyway. So it just woke him up and told them what was going on. And yeah, I mean, it was crazy. Like we went in there, there was nobody in the waiting room. They took us right back. And pretty much they didn't say it. Like she has type one diabetes, but, you know, it was it was pretty obvious, you know? So yeah, we were just there for two hours. And they sent us home and they said, Don't feed her any carbs tonight and come back tomorrow morning for training. So

Scott Benner 25:28
you know, of all the things I want to ask a question about you said your parents were young parents and your father was in an assisted living place. Why should How old is your dad?

Amy 25:36
He's really young. So he, he's 66. Now but he had a stroke when he was 47. He because he was a type two diabetic and he never took care of himself.

Scott Benner 25:47
I thought you're gonna everything early.

Amy 25:51
So and my mom and dad are divorced, obviously. Five. Yeah. Yeah. That didn't work out. Really? Shocker. Fascinating

Scott Benner 26:01
boiler alert.

Amy 26:02
Spoiler alert. They're not together anymore. But yeah, so he, he didn't take care of themselves. So he had a stroke at 47. So he's paralyzed on his website. And yeah, that's okay. And so he's just been in like nursing homes assisted living off and on. You know, since that happened, and yeah, so it turned out he had, he had shingles and the shingles rash, he scratched it and then got infected. And he also had an abscess tooth. So that's, that's what he had going on.

Scott Benner 26:39
I was gonna tell you that if your husband or when your husband comes out, if you're looking for a guy, I find you delightful. You should hunt me down. We'll see if Kelly's still here. But then I heard the rest of the story. And I was like, No. No. I don't need to help your dad with shingles.

Amy 26:59
And you don't want to be Leo stepdad either. I don't know.

Scott Benner 27:03
It'd be hilarious. I would just, I would team up with her and just pointed at you.

Amy 27:10
She, yeah. So my sister. Yeah. So she took care of him and ended up you know, he, he got on meds and they fixed. They pulled his tooth and He's okay. He's okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:28
Okay. All right. So so how much of this? Did we ever have? COVID prior to this?

Amy 27:34
No, no, we never got it. I don't know how we were able to, you know, especially if my husband's job he got exposed a bunch of times that went around his office. And no, we were lucky. There was like one time where he did have like a direct exposure. And so I was like, I'm like, okay, and this was, I can't remember if it was before, after she got diagnosed, but I was, oh, it was after. And I said, Well, you better just stay in a hotel for a couple of days. And like, as I'm saying it he's already like booking his hotel and like, hey, wait a minute.

Scott Benner 28:06
I've been looking for an excuse to get the hell out of here.

Amy 28:10
I was like, Wait, why are you booking it? Like, wait a second.

Scott Benner 28:14
You want me to leave? And you're not going to be? Oh, sure. I gotta go. What was like,

Amy 28:21
oh, yeah, no, so she did not have COVID. Me. I

Scott Benner 28:24
just realized that before when we were talking. And I, you know, didn't record it. You mentioned your husband was in law enforcement. I just wanted to because he was asleep in the middle of the day, too. So yeah, we work shift work. And I think everyone else was like, Oh, God, guys just laying around the house.

Amy 28:40
No. Yeah. No, he was working a lot during that time. It was in the middle of the George Floyd protests and riots. So he was he was working 12 hours for two weeks straight. So yeah.

Scott Benner 28:53
Okay. So move. What do I want to say here? Oh, you did mention prior that there's a line of autoimmune stuff on your husband side. I just want to go over it. Celiac Hashimoto, motos, anything else?

Amy 29:07
I think that's an well type one now.

Scott Benner 29:10
Okay. Nothing on your side.

Amy 29:13
Now, we just have a lot of exciting. Yeah, we have a lot of type two diabetes, like on my dad's side of the family. So that's just always been my connection to diabetes, as you know, seeing my dad. And yeah, so we went to, you know, the next day after we were in the ER, they we went to Children's Hospital for training. And I think we were there for maybe five hours, but it was just like this total crash course you know, and they gave us like a bag of needles and a meter and some insulin and they were like, do this, this and this and then they wanted to have us give her a shot before we left but her blood sugar was in range. And so my first shot I had was like in the parking lot at Subway, and I totally made her bleed and hurt her and pretty sure she threw some things at me. Yeah, it was not good. And I just was like, Are you sure we can leave with her? Like I couldn't. I just was like,

Scott Benner 30:15
I was really on the edge to begin with. So now you're giving me another thing. And that is a, you know, a reasonable question to ask, right? I mean, if she was, if she was challenging, that's the right word. Right? Like if she was challenging to begin with. Did you? I mean, how many times did you think, Oh, it's this one. This one gets?

Amy 30:38
I was just gonna say that. I was just gonna say that. That was like, why her? Why that one?

Scott Benner 30:43
You know that you wished it was them?

Amy 30:47
I mean, you know, I kind of joked about it. It was just like, the three, it had to be this one. Okay.

Scott Benner 30:55
Okay, so Alright, let's really dig into the diabetes stuff. Yes. So after, you know, you settle a little bit. What did they send you home with? What did you have your needles and a meter? Yeah.

Amy 31:08
Um, pen needle, like a pen? And pen needles, a meter? Some Lantis? And some homologue? Okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 31:17
How did you find learning about diabetes?

Amy 31:21
I mean, I was so overwhelmed. And so I had reached out, you know, like, I think a lot of my friends had heard, so everybody was like, Oh, I know somebody who has a kid. And so I called like, four different moms who all had kids with type one, and got some good advice, and maybe a couple not very good. But it was good. Like it, you know, so it just kind of made me feel a little more confident. And, you know, Children's Hospital was great, like keeping in touch and keeping in contact. But I think, you know, like you've said before, their whole advice was just like the the don't die advice. And not necessarily like, how is Leah going to be the healthiest? How is she going to feel the best? You know, it was just the, you know, the don't die don't. And so I think, and they said nothing about a pump or a glucose monitor or anything. I didn't know anything about that. And so I think my husband had heard from someone I don't know, he knew something about a glucose monitor. And they were like, oh, yeah, you can ask for that at your next appointment. Well, then I found your podcast. And I was like, oh, no, this is what she needs. So about, like two or three weeks in, I think I found your podcast. And I called right away. And I said, we want the Dexcom. And, and we had it within about like five or six weeks. And I was horrified. You know, seeing how high her blood sugar was going every time she ate. And you know, I called the nurse and they were like, yeah, like, that's what happens. I'm like, but how do we stop that from happening? She's like, you're just getting more information now. You know? And

Scott Benner 33:04
so you'd like So okay, so their, their reaction to you finally being able to see what was happening was, oh, yeah, it's always been a mess like this. But yeah, but nothing to do about it.

Amy 33:15
No, no, she's they were just again, it was that whole, like, we don't want her to go low. We don't want her. And I did a parent. So my friend who had the daughter with celiac, she had come to visit, they had a visit plan, like a week after she was diagnosed. And I was almost like, No, you guys can't come like I'm too overwhelmed. And then we decided, you know, it's fine, you know. And so they came. And so she had a friend who had a daughter who was an adult with type one. And I called her because it was just a situation where there's all these kids or six kids here, and they're just like, eating non stop. And they told me like, No, you can't give her insulin more than every two hours. And so of course, like we're watching a movie, they want popcorn, they want smores they want candy, and is just all the stuff was happening. And I'm like, No, I can't get a stack insulin. I can't, she has to wait two hours. And so I called her and she just was like, Well, you know, the way you have to see it as like a high blood sugar is not going to send you to the hospital. It's a low blood sugar. You know, so then I kind of got that in my head where it was like, Okay, let's keep her on a higher end, you know, but, like I said, I learned pretty quickly that that that wasn't right. And once we got her Dexcom and, and as I started listening to the podcast, I've been having to, you know, advocate for her with, you know, and it's like, I don't want to discount like the help that the nurses gave in the hospital and everything. But at the same time, it just was like she doesn't feel good, you know? Yeah. And well, you know, go ahead, sorry,

Scott Benner 34:53
Dorie, you're fine, you just you're very chatty, and I'm taking advantage of you and letting you talk. You give me be a very fun hour, and I don't have to do very much. It's great. Thank you. I feel like I should send you some of the ad money from this one. But I'm sure I won't do that me just I just wanted to okay, I feel like it, but it's not gonna happen. So I do want to know if, you know, when you get caught in that situation where you feel like, oh, gosh, they're, they're lovely people. And they're, they're really trying, but they're, they're wrong. But I don't want to tell them they're wrong. But I don't want to let my daughter continue on like this.

Amy 35:30
It's a tough spot. Yeah. How do you make sure to do I mean, I choose Leah, you know, I, and so I just started like, you know, giving her more insulin, but I was really afraid of it. At first, I was really afraid to make her go low. And she did honeymoon for a whole year. But we were able to get her agency down by her first appointment, her three month checkup to 6.1 on MDI, you know? Yeah, and this just kind of stayed there. We just so I just was like, no, like, I, I have to figure this out. Like, I can't let her sit at these high numbers. I've seen what high numbers can do to somebody, you know, like my dad. Yeah. And, you know,

Scott Benner 36:13
I let that happen again, no, and

Amy 36:15
I'm like, I'm not gonna kick the can down the road. And trade my fear, you know, for her health. You know, I just, I just couldn't do it. You know, I so I just, I just started making decisions on my own and increasing. You know, we and my husband was always on board, thankfully. And so, uh, he, he's more he was even more than me, like, Oh, he's like, I think we need to have her long acting. And, you know, so we just started kind of doing it on our own. And we would just tell them that we did it.

Scott Benner 36:45
Hey, yeah, microphones hitting your hair or your shirt.

Amy 36:48
Oh, sorry. Yeah, it's my hair. Sorry about that. Yeah, so we just started, you know, just kind of following, you know, stuff on the podcast and stuff on the Facebook page. And we, you know, she just started really, like her levels have just been really good. We just switched. She just got to Omni pod about five weeks ago, which is great. But we're still I'm still trying to figure that out. Now. Now. I feel kinda like I'm starting over. So it's been a little rough. And again, it's the same little battle with where they don't want to let me make adjustments. And so,

Scott Benner 37:27
so we started off with their advice. Went to yours, it got better switched. And then we back to their advice again.

Amy 37:35
Yeah, so now I am, you know, it's like for me, because it's a new thing. I'm trying to still figure it out. And, but I have, go ahead.

Scott Benner 37:43
So how was it?

Amy 37:46
Five weeks, or about five weeks? And yeah, so

Scott Benner 37:51
let me ask question. You were your husband, he, I know why you went to that hotel room so quick. He's like, I'm gonna go have a conversation with myself and see if I can get into yes, no, by the way, I'm teasing you. You are super chatty. It's just, it's perfect. I just need to jump in once a while we're not looking. We're not looking at each other. So it's harder to do. Now, now all that I'm gonna forget my freakin statement. Oh, okay. What what are you finding different about being on a pump versus on MDI?

Amy 38:25
I mean, I guess I Well, the things I love about it is being able to adjust the basals for the different times of day, but they were very conservative with it. And so, you know, they want me to wait, like three days before I make changes to anything. And, you know, and I just I know, better, you know, so, I'm start but at the same time, I also, I don't know all the functions of the pump yet. So I'm still trying to figure it out. And that's so it's hard. I'm,

Scott Benner 38:54
yeah, that's what I wanted to talk to you about, like, because there's nothing really different about it, like I know. I mean, it's, it's, you go into the Bazelon zone first. You either inject it once a day or twice a day, some people split, right. But you're just putting the insulin in. And so that's all the pumps doing, it's just putting it in, it's just putting it in in a different way. But you just go into the basil program and just, I mean, it's as simple as how much like what what, what basil was she using prior to the pump? Let's go for this.

Amy 39:25
Like the type? Yeah, what brand TriCity back. Okay.

Scott Benner 39:29
And how many units? Was

Amy 39:30
she getting a day? Um, we had her up to 10 when she was diagnosed, they had her at six and then we went all the way down to one because she was going low so much she honeymooned for a long time. Right? Then she, yeah, she was up to 10 units a day. So how many she getting through the pump? Like less than nine? So that's where I feel like I need to.

Scott Benner 39:52
I was gonna say is that is that like when she's stable and steady, like overnight, where she's sitting.

Amy 39:59
You know, she He's not state she's going high every night. And so we keep upping it from the night to three. And she's I think she's growing. She's going through puberty right now. So I feel like I almost need to double it because she's every night from midnight to three, she's going into the two hundreds.

Scott Benner 40:14
Okay, well, well, yeah. Well, let's try something.

Amy 40:17
I'm gonna try it.

Scott Benner 40:19
Yeah. But I'm trying to like dig into this one specific thought, like, you're a person who was doing it on their own. And you're making decisions. Not only were you making decisions, but you broke away from the idea of like, oh, this is what they're saying. It's hard to go against them. So you did it. What about moving to a pump? Made you go back to who you were in the beginning?

Amy 40:39
I think because I'm not familiar with it yet. Okay, you know, so I'm not 100% Confident. So and the I think that's it. So I just, I feel a little bit nervous about messing with things. Yeah. Because it's new,

Scott Benner 40:52
try just thinking of the pump as Basal insulin. And you can control the timeframes. So yeah, you know what I mean? And don't even worry about the, the number as much as like the strength like if, if she needs more certain time also, by the way, is she going up at midnight? Or is she going up? When is she going up?

Amy 41:11
Like literally at midnight? Every night, you need to start the Basal increase

Scott Benner 41:16
sooner then. Okay, so I will start at 11. And then then see, because you can't it's the same thing as a Bolus, right? Like, I mean, you know, you listen to the podcast. So yeah, you can't Bolus a meal and start eating at the same time. And you definitely can't change a Basal program. And at the exact moment when the impact is coming, right, because you need to pre Basal the impact, basically. And so Basal insulin, not only is, you know, it's a smaller amount, it's not going in all at once. So she's getting point six an hour. You know, and, like, right now, there's a little bit of insulin going in through her pump for her Basal, right, that, that bit that goes in right now is not impacting her right now. It's impacting her in, you know, 2030 4050 minutes from now, because they're little tiny bits. So you want to jack that basil up? I mean, I'm gonna say an hour to start, I bet you Jenny would say 90 minutes.

Amy 42:17
And but like, how much do I go up? Because they're only having to go up like point five, you know,

Scott Benner 42:23
how's that gonna help anything you should know? 200, right,

Amy 42:28
like, over 200, and I'm up, like, constantly correcting and then sometimes I'll just, like, give her like a Bolus, you know, just to try to get it down how much you Bolus thing in that timeframe? Um, I mean, it's like, I'm just up all night, trying to get it down.

Scott Benner 42:45
I mean, as much as mount, like, units, oh,

Amy 42:49
oh, in units. I'm just doing corrections. So whatever the correction will let me do and sometimes that won't let me so then I'll just put in, I'll just, I kind of do go back to what I know before. Like, okay, if she was 250, and we were on shots, I would give her two units. You know,

Scott Benner 43:05
this is, this isn't an algorithm. It's just the pump, right? So don't worry, ready? Nothing you hear the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician. Don't don't Yes. Don't worry about the insulin on board. Do what? Okay, but it says do what you know is right. Because insulin on board is a dumb. It's a dumb number, it's calculated. And if you're if it's set up incorrectly, it's not going to be right to begin with. And if you count the carbs incorrectly, it's not going to count. It's not going to work and getting a hormone impact. It's not going to work, but barebones. Somewhere in your pump, you've got setting set for how long insulin works in her body. And so if they I don't know, maybe they set that to six hours. It's two hours. Okay, so that's pretty. That's pretty short. That's so that. So it is set up to be a little more aggressive. So okay, yeah. All right. But to finish the thought, just for people listening, if the insulinoma if the insulin action time, I think that's what they call it on the pod, if that was set at six hours, that it makes this assumption that the insolence alive for six hours, if they set it for three hours, then it makes the assumption that it's alive for three hours, meaning that two hours into a meal, if it's set at three hours, it assumes it has less insulin on board. If it's set at six hours, it assumes it has more insulin on board, and then that impacts how much it wants you do to correct if they if it even thinks or corrections necessary. But yeah, okay, I would just and it sounds crazy, but I would use the pump, like injections in your mind. Like okay, don't worry about everything else, like just do what you know is right. And so my point is going to be if you're if you're correcting over those three hours with two units of insulin, first of all, are those two units bringing her back down and leveling her out? Yeah. Okay, so then I would just try to break the two units up into the Basal over the impact time of the hormones.

Amy 45:08
Okay. And I have done that like where I've done like an extended Bolus and just kind of done exactly what you said, but I want to do it. So it's automatic, you know?

Scott Benner 45:17
Yeah. Yeah. So she's getting point six now. You're gonna make me sit up. I'm so relaxed talking to you. I'm way back in my chair. The chair you guys bought me? Thank you so much. Oh, yeah. put a picture up on the Facebook page. And I said, I'm talking to Amy, I tagged you. And I was like, I'm having such a good time. To units, let's just divide it by you think you think the impact is ends around? Like three in the morning?

Amy 45:48
I feel like it's like three or four in the morning. And then she finally comes down. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:51
So then what if you just, you take the two units, break it out over four hours, give her an extra half a unit for those four hours and see what happens. Okay, now, you might try it, you might have to end it sooner, like so just like we had to start it sooner, you may end up seeing the ended sooner. So, okay, you want to start the Bayes little 11? You know, we're going to try that for an impact at 12. And so if the impact disappears at two, or three, excuse me, you may want to stop the basil at two. Okay, so that by the time three o'clock comes around, and the impact is gone, we don't have a basil. That's too heavy. Okay, that makes sense. Yes.

Amy 46:33
Yeah, it does. Thank you. And I'm just,

Scott Benner 46:34
I'm just using your your number from your correction, like trying to get the correction into the base. Yeah.

Amy 46:39
No, that's, that makes sense that those corrections need to be part of her Basal. Yeah, you should try. I know. I just it's funny because like, once, I felt like I had it down with MDI. I was like, Okay, I'm going broke. I'm doing what I want to do. And I just think switching to the new technology. I was like, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. I have to listen to everything. They say, I am a little bit, you know, like a people pleaser. So, I mean, not with my husband. I'll fight him on everything.

Scott Benner 47:08
No reason for him to be happy. But everyone else

Amy 47:11
know everybody else. I know. My husband will tell me he'll be like, talk to me. Like you're talking to one of your friends. We eats

Scott Benner 47:19
wheat? Or like, could you talk to us with your gas station voice please?

Amy 47:25
Yeah. Hi, I

Scott Benner 47:27
want to just fill this with AD seven. Oh, why? Nice to him? Never gonna see again. Never. Yeah,

Amy 47:34
I'm only 100. Yeah, that's about right. He's probably

Scott Benner 47:37
taking an impression of our credit card to buy furniture in Mongolia right now. And you you're being nice to him. And you've been to me in 10 years. That's great. Yes.

Amy 47:48
Yeah, so I just I do so I think I just because I'm not confident with it yet. It's just it's taking me a little bit of time to get that courage to just take it matters into my own hands. But yeah, when I see her not feeling well, not wanting to go to school, obviously, it makes me want to be a little more aggressive. So

Scott Benner 48:05
you know, you named the episode earlier. I did. I think it's gonna be called I choose Leah.

Amy 48:13
Oh, I do. Yeah. And, and I just And that's the thing. When I see her, her numbers steadier, her personality is completely different. And I think that's always like my motivation. Like, I want her to be the LEA. She's meant to be, you know, and so yes, I will. I will always choose her over what anybody is going to tell me.

Scott Benner 48:35
Yeah. So you're, you're, you're gonna figure this out and your actions will help her be happier, and probably save your life. If the earlier stories are accurate at all?

Amy 48:45
Yes, yeah. Maybe I'll give some days back to my plate. But yeah, I mean, it's just it's kind of crazy. Because everything I've learned with her, I'm now able to help my dad, even though he's type two. You know, we just recently I just recently I take care of my dad to like, if he has to go to the doctor, I take him and any kind of his appointments, I take him to everything. And his last doctor's appointment, his agency's kind of been sitting in the sevens and eights for a while, which, you know, I'd love to see it lower, but it jumped up to 10.8. And I was like, Okay, I've been in the fog of like taking care of Lea. And so now I'm like, Okay, I know, I know. I know what this means you need more insulin, right? He's an insulin dependent type two. And so I took him to the endocrinologist, they adjusted all his insulin. And while I was there, you know, my dad's on Medicare. I said, Hey, can he get a Dexcom? So they he got one, it was fully covered. And he's on the Dexcom now, and now my dad is seeing in real time when he eats a cookie, what happens to his blood sugar, you know? So his projected agency now since he's been on the Dexcom, is 6.5.

Scott Benner 49:53
Wow. So are you taking what you've learned from the podcast and it's helping him as well?

Amy 49:58
100% Yes. Oh, yes, absolutely. Because, yeah, I mean, it's like you're helping a type two and a type one.

Scott Benner 50:06
Oh, no, I that's really wonderful. I was Yeah, super excited. I mean, you know, I say things. I don't know if people listen. But, you know, like, even like, I slip it in the ad sometimes I'm like, if you're using insulin to get

Amy 50:19
Yeah. Well, and that, yeah. And that's the thing. So I went to his, his facility. And I was like, Well, how, you know, they, they printed out his blood sugar. They don't only check it three times a day. And he's taking probably close to 100 units of insulin a day. Wow. And I'm like, that's not enough. You know. And so I asked the doctor for a Dexcom. And you'd see his numbers. He's in the three and four hundreds all the time. And already now he's just oh my gosh, his line is so straight. I'm like, I'm so jealous. That's such a straight line. But he still has a somewhat working pancreas. But and he's done a couple of times. What's our

Scott Benner 50:56
view on any Basal insulin?

Amy 50:58
Yeah, so he takes, he takes 35 units of basil twice a day, and then he gets insulin, a fast acting for his meals. Wow. Okay. And, yeah, so but the last week, he went low, he was in the 40s. And I called him and I'm like, Dad, are you feeling okay? And he was like, what I go, your blood sugar is really low right now. Are you okay? And he was like, Oh, I didn't eat my lunch. I'm like, but they gave you insulin, right? And he's like, yeah, man, get going. I said, You need to have a good tea, don't eat a cookie, go eat some candy. And so it's happened a couple of times where I've seen his blood sugar dip low. Because he'll just he doesn't eat but it's good. Because he's changed what he eats for breakfast. He's completely changed because he's seen what it does on Sunday. He ate a cookie, his blood sugar went to like 300. And he called me he's like, I'm sorry, I ate a cookie. It's okay.

Scott Benner 51:54
So it's changing his habits to

Amy 51:57
it is because he's seeing it in real time. What's happening? And it's great. Yeah. And I mean, it's just, you know, it sucks that Leah has diabetes. And, you know, it sucks that he has type two, but I'm just so glad I'm able to help both of them. Me too. You know? Yeah,

Scott Benner 52:13
yeah. Wonderful. Wow. Good for you. That's actually you weren't? Well, I take it back. Maybe now. When your husband comes out, I will call you because, yeah, that was really lovely. Plus, I need somebody to help me with my mom. So I'm

Amy 52:25
sure Okay, I am a caretaker. That is my, you know, I do I like to take care of people for sure.

Scott Benner 52:31
has, as the diagnosis caused you, like you said, you kind of lost track your Dad, is it hard with the other two kids?

Amy 52:42
Um, you know, they're so great. Like, they're so supportive. And, and we do, like, my husband and I, like, our kids are everything. And so we do. Like my husband, coaches, my son's baseball team. So they spend a lot of time together. And my older daughter, I, you know, try to spend so we do try to like, balance it all out. But it was hard, especially when Leah was being so challenging. And so we actually worked with Erica for a little bit. And because we're in California, so we were able to, to have some sessions with Erica and that was really helpful as a family and then individually with Leah. So

Scott Benner 53:21
while this podcast is pretty damn helpful.

Amy 53:24
Yeah. And yeah, so

Scott Benner 53:27
I have Erica, like I've ever got on my, my calendar next week.

Amy 53:31
Yeah, she's amazing. And it was great. Like, we did one as a family. And, you know, I think my husband in the beginning was, it is just like, my husband's a type of guy. Like he, like, he'll

watch a Disney movie, he cries, you know, and when Leah got diagnosed, I mean, I cried for a month. You know, I was just,

I was devastated. You know, because my kids have always been healthy. I've always had healthy kids. And, you know, I've always kind of almost been like, proud of that, like, I have some kind of superior genetics or something. I don't know

Unknown Speaker 54:01
what I've done. But what

Amy 54:04
I remember my daughter had a friend she had a couple friends that were allergic to dogs and we have dogs and I'm like, can you stop making friends that have allergies please?

Scott Benner 54:12
Let's say I'm bringing these weak kids into the house. I know

Amy 54:15
that these weak immune systems Yeah, and so I just kind of it so it really you know, nothing humbles you more than being put through something like this and having you know, now I'm just so sensitive to like, celiac and peanut allergies and everything where I think you know, before I just didn't really think about it much and I would kind of be annoyed by it. And it really it really humbled me quite a bit and you know, I just Anyway, are you gonna cry? No.

Scott Benner 54:52
She need help her she crying

Amy 54:56
but it didn't know I do. I feel a little emotional about it. But um, It really did humbled me for sure. And I forgot what I was going to say. But

Scott Benner 55:06
you probably want to apologize for making fun of people with allergies is what I was.

Amy 55:10
Yeah, I mean, for sure. And yeah, and oh, what I was gonna say was that, you know, so when that happened, I was really upset. And then my husband just like, never cried. And I was like, What's wrong with you? Like, why aren't you sad about this? And he was, he did try to kind of be like, Oh, you're so good at it, you do everything. And I was like, No, I can't be the only one who knows how to take care of her because we have other kids. And, you know, I like I need to spend time with other kids and or take them to do things. And so you need to be able to take care of her too. And so he didn't, he was afraid it was hard for him to put a needle in his child and, but he did it and he helps a lot. Now he's very involved. And it was, but anyway, we had a session with Erica and and again, I just think like it, it was hard, because I felt like he didn't, he didn't feel it the same way I did. And we had our session with her and she kind of like went around and asked everybody, you know, how they felt when Leah was diagnosed, and then he, he totally cried, and then we all started crying. We were all on different computers in the house, you know, and, and all of us is just like, so it was good. And it was good to hear how my kids felt about it. You know, the other kids and how they took it in? And what's

Scott Benner 56:24
different for each of them?

Amy 56:27
Um, yeah, I think, you know, like my son, he was so sweet. He was just like, you know, oh, I just only knew my grandpa had type two diabetes, and I, I really didn't understand it. And he's like, I just feel I feel really bad for her. And, you know, he's 12 At the time, and he's like, I just want to learn how to, like, give her shots and take care of her. And he was so cute. And, and he was like, you know, sometimes we ride our bikes home from school, like, I want to be able to go like, get food with her and be able to give her a shot. And, and Erica was just like, I'm so touched hearing that, Charles. Like, that's so sweet. And then she's like, Leah, how does it make you feel to hear your brother say that? And she's like,

Scott Benner 57:04
I guess what she said? Yeah, can I guess what she said? What did she say? Yeah, that kids?

Amy 57:12
Pretty much. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess that's nice. You know, cuz sometimes I'm hungry on the way home from school. It's just like this touching moment. And she was like, Yeah, I don't care. Yes. And she's really mean. What? One of our sessions with Erica, it was just me, Eric and Leah. And she was in her room on her device. And my husband, you know, he hasn't mastered the zoom. Okay. This zoom, kind of had it on a bad angle. You know, he kind of had a double chin, you know, on display. And she just sent him a text message that said, nice chin therapy. Tech says message that says nice chin. Yeah, she's She's charming. Charming, ya know, so it's been so helpful. And I just I feel like I owe you so much. Because, yeah, I mean, our whole family is better because of it. You know, including my dad.

Scott Benner 58:21
Happy to hear that. Thank you for telling me. That's wonderful. Yeah.

Amy 58:23
Yeah, for sure. I,

Scott Benner 58:26
I don't know what to say usually. So I'm going to try not to say something silly, and just say thank you. But you're welcome. Very. It's a humbling like, I try not to say things that I think people think sound just cliched. But you want to try sitting over here and having someone tell you that story. And then thank you at the end of it. It's, it's hard to absorb. So

Amy 58:49
yeah, well absorb it. Cuz I just I don't I just I'm like, what would I Where would we be? Had I not found your podcast? I don't even want to know. Do you know, I don't even want to know.

Scott Benner 59:01
Do you know that this week, has my mom's having a health issue. And I didn't feel like that she was getting the care she needed through the doctor that she basically landed on when she was at the hospital. So I looked at our our options for how to get her a second opinion. And they were all you know, like call the cold call and office and tell a story and hope a doctor was interested. And then I was telling my neighbor about it. And her son had grown up to be a surgeon. And she's like, why don't you call him and see, you know if he knows anybody. So I texted him. And it turns out he went to medical school with a doctor who is the exact kind of doctor that my mom would meet. So she he texted his friend, his friend then called a mentor. And yesterday, the mentors office reached out and treated us so much better than my mom has been treated so far. You know, which sucks. I'm not gonna lie like it sucks. It's like the you need to know somebody to get treated. Yeah, you know, but yeah, but it's, it's happening, right? And I text him to thank him. And I sent him a very thoughtful text and it, you know, I'm telling him how much of an impact he's made. And I'm thanking him. And he responds, it's no trouble. So I was happy to do it. And I was immediately like, No, man, you don't understand. Like, you can't just say no trouble. I'm happy to do it. This is a really big deal. My mom's been, you know, my mom's happy for the first time and months. My family feels relief for the first time in a long time like this is I'm so I'm now trying to explain to him what a big deal is. And as I'm explaining it to him, I'm thinking, Oh, this is what I do to people. They tell me, they tell me something. And they thank me and I go, it's no trouble. Don't worry about Yeah. Damn, I got mad at myself. I was like, I gotta stop doing that. But I don't know

Amy 1:01:07
what Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, I know, it's hard, because you still want to remain humble. But at the same time, you know, it's

Scott Benner 1:01:16
not even that it's, it's, I mean, I made the thing it's recorded. So we keeps helping people. It's not like, I have to do it over and over again to help them. Do you know what I mean? Like, I talked to you once, if something valuable gets set in this hour, which is 100%. Sure, we did. But maybe we didn't talk about the diesel thing overnight. So that might be okay. But you know, somebody takes something from this episode. And it helps them it'll, then and this episode gets downloaded, you know, a lot. And then it helps all those other people. My effort only happen once. You know what I mean? And so it's hard to feel like, I don't know, you know, if 10s of 1000s of people tell you something, but you only did something once for them to all get that reaction. It doesn't feel like are my effort is equal to their. To their thanks. I don't know, to their appreciation. Yeah. And, um, I know, it's a weird thing, but I really do like hearing it. And I appreciate knowing

Amy 1:02:20
ya know, we're I just like I said, because a lot of the advice I got was the, like you've said before the don't die advice, which is great. And I don't want that to happen. But I would have never been able to help her the way I have. Had I not found it. Yeah. And not only her health but emotionally because then we found Erica, so Right.

Scott Benner 1:02:44
No, and yeah, and their behavior to like, I know, yes. Still, like spirited, but she says, yeah, she's not like flipping you off anymore.

Amy 1:02:53
I mean, oh, yes. When we got her her pump, I put a picture of it on the page. But when she got her pump, I was like, oh, Leah, let me take a picture of you with your pump and I'll send it to grandma.

Scott Benner 1:03:03
Oh, she's the one that flipped you off in the pie. Remember that picture?

Amy 1:03:05
Yes. Yeah, she flipped me off. But that was just like, yeah, that was more fun. But yeah. Oh, and she's told me like, she does not identify where her diabetes. You know what I mean? Like, she's fine with talking about it. But she's not like, I'm a type one where you're like, that is so not her personality at all. And she told me if I ever were a type one where your mom t shirt that she would set it on fire while I'm wearing it. So

Scott Benner 1:03:34
that kid's gonna kill you.

Amy 1:03:35
She is yes. Somehow. Slowly, slowly over time, or yet or just one day? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:03:43
Kelly, why don't you just smother me with a pillow? Wouldn't it be quicker? Why are you torture me like this? Just we just get this done, please. It's just the this this water torture thing is taking forever. Like

Amy 1:04:01
I know My poor husband, too. He's got all these feisty girls in the house. There's three of us. So He said that once. We're all like synced up with our cycles that he and my son are going to leave town every month during that time. So

Scott Benner 1:04:15
I've never been so delighted as how you describe him running to the to the hotel when you were like

Amy 1:04:22
it was like as I was saying it was already booked. I'm like, Oh,

Scott Benner 1:04:26
should I use Travelocity or the one with the

Amy 1:04:30
oh my gosh, it was so funny. To look

Scott Benner 1:04:33
at the sun and go see a sucker.

Amy 1:04:35
I know. Sorry. Don't want to give you COVID

Scott Benner 1:04:39
Oh, it's a shame you're gonna have to say I gotta go goodbye. Three days he's probably

Amy 1:04:46
Oh yeah, eating cookie dough. Yeah, see what

Scott Benner 1:04:51
Well, it means there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have?

Amy 1:04:55
No, I'm just thank you for helping me with the competence again. cuz I just I felt like I did I have lost a little confidence since switching to the pump. So I'm trying to, to get that back, but I love it. You know, I mean, it's amazing. We were giving her, you know, 12 shots a day sometimes. So wow, this is an especially with a difficult child like her there was some running around pinning her down, you know? So but I'm like, I will not like up high

Scott Benner 1:05:28
like flopped on top of Ronda. So Oh, yeah.

Amy 1:05:32
Very accurate. And it's the same with like, you know, the Dexcom, you know, and some of the advice that I've been given by people is like, Oh, well set a timer. And, you know, and then tell her Okay, it's time now. And I'm like, that's not going to work. Like, I'll set the timer for five minutes, and she's still not gonna let me do it. So,

Scott Benner 1:05:50
to do these things, like sneaking up on a wild animal, you just throw it back over her head?

Amy 1:05:54
Yes. Yeah, seriously. And so it's just like that. Dexcom you know how, you know, you stick it on? And then that sometimes she'll be like, no, wait, wait, wait. And I'm like, No, I'm not waiting. And I'll just, I'll just do it. And I know, maybe that's not in the parenting books and or whatever. But I'm like, no, she will literally walk around with that thing hanging on her arm. She will do the long game, she will walk around for days, and never let me inject it. So I just know. I just have

Scott Benner 1:06:23
to do it. So I think the waiting just builds the anxiety. Honestly, it does. Yeah,

Amy 1:06:27
it does. And I just do it. And she might, you know, get a little combative. But you know, then it's done. And you know, we move

Scott Benner 1:06:34
on? I'm I have to I have to tell you be honest. I'm a proponent of do it quick.

Amy 1:06:40
Yeah, yeah, I just know her, you know,

Scott Benner 1:06:44
but even when people take off their devices, and sometimes I see them and like soaking them and stuff. Like why like to get it nice and wet. You know, I know some people have skin issues where pulling it off quickly really does mess with them. But Arden we just like peel up a corner and I'm like, you're ready. She goes. Yeah. And I hold her skin down with one hand like, I just Oh, wow. It doesn't feel great. But it's over and then it stops hurting. And that's it. Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't know. Like if you want to soak, you know, you want to soak your pod for an hour before you pull it off. Like it's cool with me like I don't I don't have time for that. I don't care that we do it. We're just like ripping go.

Amy 1:07:22
Yeah, I also did a little bit but now we we don't wait more than a couple of minutes. I'm like, Nope. Okay, it's coming off now. So I just I just don't and I know her and it doesn't matter how patient I am. She's never going to be ready. You know, she's never going to be like, okay, Mom, you can take money. You can inject it now or you can take it off. Now. You just have to. You just have to get it done.

Scott Benner 1:07:43
And one more second. One more. So hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, why are we waiting? Just wait one second like that. It just goes on forever.

Amy 1:07:49
Right? Yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah. 100%.

Scott Benner 1:07:53
I've lived through that once or twice. Okay. My son was taking a pill when he was a little kid. Holy crap. I still my wife and I are traumatized by one time. We just were hours in the kitchen. Like just swallow the pill. Oh, my father, like retired, like you'll feel better if you just he was little, you know, and he says I don't want to do it and I shut up and to swallow the pill. And he fought for ever. And then finally did it like an hour later. He's like, my head feels better than we were likely. Gonna Majan that. Okay. Thanks. All right. All right, Amy. I'm gonna let you go. And I'm gonna delete out all the cursing that we did.

Amy 1:08:32
Yes, I'm sorry. Everybody knows.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
I curse the biggest curse. Don't worry about all right. Do not remember.

Amy 1:08:40
I you know I? I said I think yes, that's right. That's right. Yes. That's

Scott Benner 1:08:45
got to come out. That has to come out. Yeah. Well, I imagine. I can imagine your daughter saying it. So

Amy 1:08:52
she calls him a little bit all the time. She tells him he's a little and she tells him he's never gonna move out. She's been and he's so nice to her

Scott Benner 1:09:05
because she gets older and she started saying stuff like girls aren't gonna go out with you and

Amy 1:09:09
oh, she's Yeah, she's very mean. But he's thankfully he. He's pretty good about ignoring it.

Scott Benner 1:09:17
Alright, listen, if your friend ever wants to come on and talk about her husband coming out, I don't care that it doesn't

Amy 1:09:24
it's an interesting story for sure. And I'll let you know if my husband ever does. I'll keep you posted for

Scott Benner 1:09:29
when I hear you. Okay. Hold on. Let's take care you to

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEG l u c h GE o n.com forward slash juicebox. I'd also like to thank Amy for coming on the show and sharing her story. And us med for sponsoring this episode. Go to us med.com Ford slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check get started with us med if you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. And if they don't know about podcast, take their phone from them and show them be like here. Download this, do this search for that. Listen here. Some people need help. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#678 After Dark: Nolan's Story

Jen has type 1 diabetes and is here to tell Nolan's Story of addiction, mental illness and overdosing.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 678 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast we have another in the after dark series. I'll be speaking today with Jen who has type one diabetes, and is the mother of three children. Her son Nolan had type one diabetes, and he also struggled with addiction. Jen does a very brave thing today sharing Nolan's story with all of us. And I'd like to thank her right now, for what must have been a very difficult hour. She was honest and open, as she discussed Nolan's life and his struggles. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you are a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, spending a few minutes today at T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Taking their survey will help people with type one diabetes, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Take the survey

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, a wonderful organization doing amazing things for people with type one diabetes, learn more about them on their Instagram page, their Facebook page, or at touched by type one.org. The podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Learn more Get started today. Or just buy the thing at contour next one.com forward slash juice box. My daughter's meter is a great meter. And I think you're gonna like it to contour next one.com forward slash juice box.

Jen 2:11
Hello, my name is Jen. I am a type one diabetic and the mother of a recently deceased type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 2:18
Okay, Jen, I know you from the private Facebook group. Yes. How long have you been in that space?

Jen 2:28
In the private Facebook group? Gosh, probably less probably about a year. Okay. We not that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:35
Yeah, not not all that long. The group might not even be like two and a half years old. So you could have been there for a very long time. And it not been that long. On the calendar. I guess that my I'd like to ask you a little bit about yourself first, I guess. How old are you now? And how old are you? Where are you when you were diagnosed?

Jen 2:57
So I was I'm 48 years old now. And I was diagnosed around age 40. I have what they call led a diabetes. I had a very slow onset, they thought that I was a type two until I almost died. Well, one doctor knew that I was the type one. He tested me for the autoimmune antibody. And I had that. And so he diagnosed me as type one. And I was proud 4041 When that happened

Scott Benner 3:34
prior to that, were you struggling with diabetes and nobody had tested you.

Jen 3:39
You know, I had I had gestational diabetes. And no, I hadn't had it really tested other than the gestational. My sugar stayed high. After I had my baby. We don't really know how long I had I sugars. But I was having trouble with getting infections. I got pinkeye maybe 20 times. And I wouldn't I just kept getting pinkeye. And so they checked me and started me on Metformin, which did not do anything and I just continued to get sicker and sicker. Put me on a couple of other type two medications. And then I went into the UK and had to have I got cholecystitis, which means my gallbladder had gall stones. And I had to have my gallbladder out. And they found out that I was a type one. So they did they finally did a fasting C peptide and checking in those type one

Scott Benner 4:41
from this. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. Nope, that's okay. Go ahead. I was gonna say from the time that you began to not feel well. From I guess the question is, from the time you were gestational till the time you realize something was wrong was how long? About five years? You're okay. And then from that time until somebody told you you had Lada How long was that?

Jen 5:08
I'm sorry. So it was about it was not feeling well continued after I had my child, my youngest. And it was about five years until they said that I have IDs.

Scott Benner 5:19
I see. Okay. All right, Jen. I hate to say this because we went through so much trouble before we started, but I don't know if I like the headphones. I might. I might try without I might just ask you to go through the phone. Yeah.

Jen 5:34
Okay, one moment, okay. Is not a problem now. Thank you. I gotta turn them off. Hold on a second. Okay, how's that?

Scott Benner 5:49
Yeah, it's probably going to be better than the headphones straight in your longer sentences. They strain. I don't know how to put that other than when you speak more than a few words. Your, your, your ladder words in those sentences start to kind of drift away. So okay, yeah,

Jen 6:05
just just a moment. Now, is it better now like this? Yeah, you're

Scott Benner 6:09
fine like that. Okay. So I'll keep it off speaker

Jen 6:12
and on the phone. Okay, thanks. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:16
it just sucks because you've got to be cognizant of your hair, not touching the phone and like all kinds of little things that make noises, like whatever that is, and like, you know, that kind of stuff. So just do your best to find a spot where you're comfortable. Okay, okay. So you this all happen after your youngest. So how many children have you had?

Jen 6:35
I have three children? Three. I had Nolan, Patrick and lemon is my youngest. What are their ages? So lemon is 13. Patrick is 21. And Nolan passed at age 24. Just a couple of weeks after his 24th birthday.

Scott Benner 6:52
Oh, one right after his 24th Okay. And you were about 24 When you had Nolan.

Jen 6:58
Yep. I was 23. Okay.

Scott Benner 7:02
So you have type one diabetes. Am had no one been diagnosed at this point yet?

Jen 7:10
Yeah, he was he was diagnosed before I was he was diagnosed at age seven. Okay. And yeah, I think if he hadn't been diagnosed, I likely would not have even gone to the doctor for what was going on with me. I would have just chalked it up to being old.

Scott Benner 7:26
being old. I don't know. I don't know how old you are. 3030 some years old. But I hear what you're saying. Well,

Jen 7:31
but with the first time you're 30, you don't know what it's like to be 30.

Scott Benner 7:35
Yeah. So no, I understand. I just would have seen like, oh, I guess this is the path of my health. And right, that's right. I understand. So let's talk a little bit about when Owen was diagnosed, how did you figure that out?

Jen 7:51
Well, that was interesting. He was he was getting infections that wouldn't go away. And I'd taken them to the pediatrician. Oh, gosh, it seems like every other week, I was in nursing school. And I remember, I just took him to the pediatrician so much because he had sinus infections. And then he had this big, swollen parotid gland. So that's right on your jawbone. And he just had his face was uneven. And so I took him in. And they said, well, hmm, I don't know. I don't know what this is. And we did some blood work. He did like a complete blood count. He didn't do a sugar. He didn't do a metabolic panel, otherwise, we would have known. And then I took him and he sent me over to an en te to look at the parotid while the en eyes went to two different un and T's because one was just kind of a mean guy, and I didn't like him. And the other wanted to operate on him right away. And by that time, I was in nursing school, and we were learning a little bit about diabetes. And by that time, Nolan had started to wet the bed. So that was a big flash for me, though. Well, he's wetting the bed. So I took him. They wanted to schedule surgery, and I said, Well, shouldn't we just find out there? He's not diabetic first, because he's wetting the bed. And he said, No, he's wetting the bed because of his adenoids. And I said, That's it. And I said, Give me his medical records. So I took him over to my doctor, who on December 20 2000 tour said, Sure, we can do a blood sugar check. And we did a blood sugar check. And he was up in the seven hundreds hadn't eaten, because he had been vomiting that day. I mean, he was diabetic. And so he referred us

Scott Benner 9:45
to imagine right? He was he was in decay as well.

Jen 9:49
You Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He had fruity breath, all the things that you look for. And they actually he referred us to a pediatrician who was an internist. Just at their office. So he came in and scroll down. One U, H for our Q 15. One for you l QD, meaning one unit for every 15 carbs of human login meal time, and then four units of Lantis daily and send us home. You didn't go to the hospital? Yeah, my dad came in and said, you know, arguably a lot of people would say you should go to the hospital. Do you want to do that? And at the time, I was an idiot. And I was like, Well, no, the hospital means he's sicker. Okay, so we went home with no blood sugar meter with a script for insulin, and a kid that we could very easily kill that day. Yeah. So yeah, that's what it was. That's how that happened.

Scott Benner 10:49
What was at that time, if I'm, if I'm doing the math right here, Patrick's around four years old. Maybe you have two small kids. Yeah, yeah. And are you a nurse now? Did you finish nursing school?

Jen 11:02
I did finish nursing school. Yes. And yes, I'm an RN, now, okay.

Scott Benner 11:06
Yeah. What was life, like, growing up with a kid who had type one, you know, what was? What was the pathway for you and for him,

Jen 11:18
you know, I, I submerged myself into the diabetes world, spent every moment on on websites and research and looking for why this happened. I was still in school. And in school, it was funny, because I was learning the opposite of what I was learning in real life about diabetes. So I had to really kind of temper myself for school and make sure I passed the tests by giving the wrong answers. Just because nursing care for diabetes is not very succinct. It's not very, it's not what people with diabetes do. I started to volunteer at diabetes camp, we started sending Nolan to camp and I just really immersed myself in the world of diabetes to the point that, you know, I think my family missed me. I think I missed him a little bit, I think that I, I put so much into this tragedy that happened to my son and trying to make it better and trying to find the best care for him and do the best that I could for him that I think in some ways, I kind of lost him. I forgot that he was a whole person.

Scott Benner 12:31
You just, you just saw the diabetes.

Jen 12:35
I saw him too, but I felt so I've just really wanted to make it as good as possible. You know, and just really make sure that he was getting the best care possible. And that and that, you know, we we fought it.

Scott Benner 12:50
Was it were things not good? Or was that just your perception that they you're trying to get them back to perfect?

Jen 12:59
I think it's my perception. I think he was doing well. I mean, his his a onesies were all great. He was doing well. He he took it in stride. like you wouldn't believe there were some battles when he got older, but he just really took it well. I think that just the regular things about a child kind of fell by the wayside. And I don't think anyone minded or thought any different of it, but in retrospect, I see that now that you know, he was a musician. We did We did music stuff with him. We took him to the conservatory and he did his drumming there and stuff and, and you know, but I feel like it was always me falling behind going, Oh, your sugar, sugar, you know, and you do you have to you have to make sure they're okay and not landing in the hospital. So really, it's a fine line, taking care of a kid with diabetes.

Scott Benner 13:58
So, okay, I guess knowing the rest of the story is tainting how I'm asking my questions, but Sure, but I guess there's no way around that honestly. Sure. Is there any chance that Hindsight is making you think this like when did you start coming to this conclusion I guess

Jen 14:19
I think I started coming to the conclusion I think I came to it right away. I think I came to it right away realizing this is this is I'm making a choice and this is the most important thing making sure that he stays alive and and that he is in good control and that he doesn't have complications later. So I think hindsight does taint it. I don't regret anything I did and I wouldn't do it differently because you can't you do what you do when when it's going on and and I would do so much of it just like I did. Because you do have to you have to advocate for your child. And I did A lot of that. You know, you have to go to bat for them, you have to argue with the school you have to you have to the school nurse is either your ally or your enemy. And that can get that can get really touchy, too. I don't think I would do a whole lot different though. I think there's days when I think that I would. But what I would have done differently would have led to him leaving us sooner. So like if I just allowed him to do everything the way he wanted to do it, he would have been gone sooner.

Scott Benner 15:35
Okay. The technology back then. So Nolan's diagnosed in 2004. Is that right? Yes, that's two years before Arden was diagnosed. So our technology path is going to be very similar because there was no, there was no great leap from 2004 to 2000. No, it wasn't so you were get you probably had. I mean, maybe a pen if you were lucky. But needles and a small meter. That was all you're here.

Jen 15:59
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And started pumping though. Yeah, pretty soon.

Scott Benner 16:04
Okay. So your your, your focus is on trying to keep his blood sugar's stable, trying for him not to be too high or too low. Aiming for that a once every three months, it's pretty much feels like your only ability to understand how well you're doing. And that was right. The extent of it. Is that right?

Jen 16:24
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:28
Was he having a lot of lows or highs? Do you recall?

Jen 16:32
He had a few lows. He didn't have a whole heck of a lot of lows. And his highs were like under 200. So he wasn't really he was really in good control. I think his first A once he was five something. And then he just slowly made a climb. Like I think the highest he had before he was 18 was in the sevens. Yeah. Okay. Um, you know, he was usually around six, okay, you know, six and a half, seven. And so he did really well, until he got older.

Scott Benner 17:04
And so through regular elementary school, middle school, he was doing fine. Did he start to ignore his diabetes at any point, as he got older,

Jen 17:17
middle school, he started he wanted to take it, take it into his own hands more. And I was told at the very beginning. As soon as he was diagnosed as you need to let him as his diabetes, you need to let him do his stuff. Okay, so I tried my hardest and that was excruciating. Because he would, you know, middle school, he, he just kind of got tired of it. I would say, Do you have your kit? Yes, I have my kit. Can I see it? No, I have my kids in my bag, or you put my bag mom. Okay, so I take him to school. And I get to work on the other side of town. And I get a phone call from the nurse that said no one forgot his kit. And there wasn't my card had fallen out of the bag. But this happens so often, like almost daily. And he would start to lie about his blood sugar's and, you know, 107 it's 109, you know, and finally realized that if he was gonna lie, he should give me a believable number. It's 210. You know, I mean, he, he just became really resistant to having diabetes. And he was tired of it. He didn't like it. But he also that's when mental illness starts showing up as well. And that's when he started showing a lot more signs of mental illness as well as middle school. And so he had we just behaviors and stuff like that, and he would get in trouble at school. And I mean, it just became a whole lot to deal with.

Scott Benner 18:46
Right? Were those mental illnesses ever diagnosed?

Jen 18:49
Yes, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when he was oh, I want to say 18 He was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age, which we know now that a lot of ADHD in children shows up later as bipolar disorder. They're on the same spectrum. I didn't know that until recently, but so a lot of kids are misdiagnosed and medicated. And that's what happened to Nolan. I don't want to say he was misdiagnosed you can have a DD and bipolar disorder.

Scott Benner 19:21
Right. So he was being medicated for ADHD when he was younger. Yes. Yes. How does what can you remember the first time you thought something's really wrong? Like how does bipolar show itself the first time in your situation?

Jen 19:37
I think the first time I realized something was really wrong

Scott Benner 19:50
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Jen 23:05
you know, I guess when he got kicked out of middle school, he got kicked out of middle school because he bought a marijuana joint from a kid in the bathroom. Now the kid has sold it to him get to stay in school. I'm not sure how that worked out. But being diabetic and being one of the only diabetic kids that is Middle School. And on top of that the only diabetic kid with with a 504. Is it a 504? I can't even remember now with a care plan. Yeah. And a mom that was involved. They were really happy to get rid of them. And I thought that but I thought no, Jen, you're just being paranoid. That's not why. But yeah, they're happy to get rid of the diabetic kid who they have to answer to the parents of. And that was a theme that kind of went went around like him and another kid would get in trouble and he was always the one that got in more trouble. What so he bought what he bought was a fake marijuana joint in the bathroom, oh, and middle school, but that's what happened and he got kicked out. So he went to alternative school and now alternative school they had, you know, trouble getting him to listen and the teachers really sat and talked to me and said, Look, you know, I'll ask him to do this sweep the floor. And I come back in an hour and he still hasn't done it like he's this is a problem. And that's when I really started realizing that there was some some issues with him. He seemed absolutely normal. But his functioning level was not he just compensated so well.

Scott Benner 24:36
So there was you didn't see the big swings it wasn't manic and then depressed. It didn't go back and forth like that.

Jen 24:43
Unfortunately you know, with high blood sugars, we get moody. And so I did see mood swings, but we didn't know Is it is it at first we thought it's diabetes stuff. It's diabetes stuff. and it is. And then we thought, well, it's bipolar stuff. And it also is. And there's just no way of knowing which one it's related to. Keeping him on the bipolar medications was, was hell, he didn't want to take them, they make you feel crappy. I would find them hidden. You know, they, they'd been in his mouth, they were hidden. I check his mouth, say, show me that you swallow. Like it was like jail. Right? And he just didn't like them and wasn't going to take then most people with bipolar disorder don't like the medications, because there aren't really very good medications for

Scott Benner 25:35
Yeah. And so this just persists on I mean, he wasn't really going to middle school anymore. Like alternative school doesn't sound like it's not it's not a public situation, right?

Jen 25:45
No, it's for kids that are kicked out of middle school for behavior stuff. So, you know, he got put in behavior classes when he was in high school, he went to regular high school. And the behavior classes were such that they were in the basement. When the regular kids walked by for lunch, the behavior kids were made to turn around and face the wall. It was it was not good. I'm not sure. He really didn't, he never thought he never had sold drugs in school. He, he just was a he was kind of a jerk. You know, he would giggle and not do what he was supposed to do. And he had fun when he was in school with other kids. So I think that he is, I always said he glowed in the dark, because of the diabetes, because of the involved parent. I remember going into the school and it was the first day of school, I had to go have my meeting with the nurse. And three or four different types of kids type one kids at the high school walked in and the nurse said, Okay, what is this your insulin? What do you How much do you take? And they're like, I don't know, how often do you check your blood sugar, like in the morning and at lunch? And she's like, okay, and you take how much she's like, they're like five units. And she's like, okay, and that was their plan. And I thought, that's crazy. You know, these parents aren't involved at all.

Scott Benner 27:14
Well, you have, obviously, intersecting issues that we're all coming together to share, I give you up. And then the bipolar comes, and even was ADHD early on. And then I imagine at some point, drug use ramps up.

Jen 27:29
Yeah. Then he started with drug use. And he started smoking marijuana, and taking pills from kids. And he did that for a few months and was just ridiculously tired of it. And I remember getting a text message him from him at my job. And it said, Mom, we need to get me help. real help. I can't keep doing this. I don't want to keep doing this. And I just cried. So I started trying to find him help. How old was he would have been about 16. I want to say 15. I'm sorry, he was about 15. And I was working at the hospital in a clinic. And I would spend every break time calling and calling P MCs which they're called P MCs. They're for kids with medical and substance abuse issues or behavior issues. And they they're all medical, the m&p MC is for MediCal. None of them would take him he had Iowa Medicaid. And I could not find a single place in Iowa to take him because of the diabetes. They said they were not equipped to deal with somebody with type. They weren't comfortable. They weren't equipped. They didn't have a nurse. Yeah,

Scott Benner 28:50
I've heard this a lot on the podcast when people are trying to get extra help for their kids that have you know, extenuating issues. And yeah, and then places are always like, well, we don't take kids with type one happens a lot.

Jen 29:03
And it's ridiculous. So I called the American diabetes Association. And I got an advocate who sent a letter and they got in touch with a social worker who was wanted to advocate for him. And we forced a couple of places to take him. And they would kick them out. They would find a reason to kick them out. One of them said, there was a bunch of kids that ran away. And no one opened the door to let them back in when they came back. And he mumbled something about why I want to run away or something and they sit up that's it. You're done. You're type one, if you run away, you'll die. It's a liability. And that's and they kicked him out. They made me come pick him up on Easter. And it was over in Fort Dodge. They I asked for his medical records because I was going to deal with the advocate on it. And they you know, told me my kid was not an angel and I said well, I didn't think you're safe. But thank you But I do think you should keep them in treatment facilities. You know, just it seems wrong and people have really a lot of trouble believing Oh, they won't say no. Because the diabetes? Yes, they absolutely 100%. Well, and that is a tragedy.

Scott Benner 30:19
Yeah. Well, where does that where does this all lead to? I mean, that that's a rehab. It's not. I mean, he's not getting you know what he needs from there. Obviously, they're, they're kicking him out of there. And now he's back on you. Are you married during this?

Jen 30:33
I, he's his dad and I divorced in 2009. So his dad is an alcoholic. And as that plays into a lot of his problems, his dad's an alcoholic with major mental illness. In fact, his father right now is missing. We don't know where he is. He was eluding the police about three days before Nolan passed away, and is jumped in and faked his own death. figures on suicide and now is hiding from the police. Wow, that's so that's that's it? Yeah. It's really an interesting twist. Drama,

Scott Benner 31:07
I'm not looking to go down his path. What kind of what kind of mental illness for him?

Jen 31:12
Well, I would say schizophrenia, but he's not diagnosed, but definitely bipolar. But he has a lot of paranoia. You know, he's just a really smart guy, very talented musician. Just really clocked out of his kids lives and was an abusive person. So Gotcha. Yeah. mentally abusive,

Scott Benner 31:35
right? Like that. So does Nolan's drug use like it? Because I'm thinking back to when he says to you, I can't do this. I don't want to do this. But but he was, I'm assuming self medicating, at that point. Trying to get around, eventually go back to it.

Jen 31:52
Yeah. Oh, yeah. He didn't ever stay sober for too long. You know, self esteem and all that kind of plays into into your choices. He really had trouble staying sober. And he got into, you know, he drinks sometimes it was never his drug of choice. But he did start using methamphetamines. Probably when he was about 17. We would take him to the hospital, I would find him. You know, I find him downstairs in DKA. We take him to the hospital. And after we'd have him in the hospital, in the ER, ICU, then we'd go to psych. And psych would be able to send him somewhere. Because what we wanted to do was find a place that would get long term treatment and maybe get him out of Sioux City. halfway house, that kind of stuff. But did so he would go to Cherokee, which was the mental institution and that's the one place that would always accept him. But it would happen the same way every time er, we'd start making the calls. We'd go to the ICU, we'd spend another couple of days making the calls. And eventually, Cherokee would always be the place that would take him. And so they take him up in the ambulance up there. Sometimes he would pull out his own IVs and try to walk out of the hospital and have to be stopped by the by the security there. But they always would take him and he turned 18 up there and Cherokee. We went all the family went up for his birthday party. We always kept in really good contact with him. His grandparents on both sides were very supportive. His brother and sister and I would always go up and visit and his dad tried to visit a few times. It's sometimes he wouldn't see his dad. So it just back and forth with Cherokee and finding different placements and and just in and out of treatments for the last seven years.

Scott Benner 34:04
Yeah, Jim, I try my hardest to just sort of stay dispassionate while I'm having these conversations. But Nolan had his 18th birthday party in a facility that almost made me cry for some reason. I mean, we've been talking for half an hour, nothing you've said has been like, you know, right. Not happy. Yeah. Yeah. And yet that got me. Yeah, really. He

Jen 34:27
went, he went from the pediatric unit to the adult unit on his 18th birthday. And we took pictures we they let us use a party room there. So we all drove up to Cherokee me grandma, grandpa, Indian grandma, grandpa for cello and and just all the family went up and his brother and sister and we were able to have this birthday party and it was just very bittersweet.

Scott Benner 34:54
Let me ask you a few questions about this from your perspective. So now, at this time, it's been a few years When he's 18, are you hopeful that this is going to get turned around? Or is this the thing you live in every day? That you're just like waiting for the other shoe to drop? Like, what's the what's the feeling in the back of your head? Oh, okay.

Jen 35:15
Yeah. Oh, like I think at that point, I had hope. But every time something else would happen, it was a shoe dropping, and there was always a shoe dropping so many shoes. And I think we, I always held out hope. But I always knew in my heart somehow, that no one was like, a gift that was on loan, if that makes sense. Ever since he was a little baby, I kind of knew that. And, you know, he started overdosing, he would be fine for a little while, and then there'd be an overdose. Or there'd be, you know, finding him comatose, calling the paramedics to come get him, he's having behaviors, big time, just breaking everything in the house. He just, and I had hope. But I saw him suffering so much. And that was the hardest part. It was to see somebody you love so much that you brought here, you know, that didn't ask for an invitation. And to see them suffer like that, to see him suffer with the diabetes ruined me. When he was diagnosed, I just, it was the worst thing that could have happened. And and I don't know why. Because it is not the worst thing that can happen. But it's pretty bad news. It's really hard for parents to go through that. Yeah, I took it really hard.

Scott Benner 36:45
Yeah. I can tell you that. I can tell no. Yeah. Talking about throwing yourself into it. How Oh, anything? It was.

Jen 36:54
It was it was everything. I just wanted it to go away. Because I think I think because, you know, we saw a little problems with him before when he was a kid. I think I thought just why him? Why not someone who can handle it better? Why not me? And I said, God, give it to me instead. And then God misheard me, he's had I said, as well. Why any hearing aid? I know. Anybody know,

Scott Benner 37:21
I just need to ask you just for context here. Do you have any mental health issues?

Jen 37:25
Um, I have ADD, and I have some depression. Um, so yeah, I those are mental health issues. Yeah. I think my doctor asked me if I was bipolar. A problem, I guess, mildly. I've always been really functional. But when I was a little kid in school that add was that wasn't a thing then. I mean, I'm 48 years old. We didn't have medicine for that. Really?

Scott Benner 37:52
There were just kids that didn't listen. Yeah,

Jen 37:55
there are lazy they like calling me lazy. I hate that word. Hate it.

Scott Benner 37:59
How about your other, you know, your other two kids? How are they?

Jen 38:03
So Patrick is I would say the perfect child or what they call the family hero. He has very few problems. He does struggle with depression. But he does seek help for it when he needs to. He's really ideal in the sense that he's been very self sufficient. He's very caring and kind, very funny. Just very healthy and forward moving now. He no one was his best friend. He lost his best friend. But he's really pushing to do some things now in life that he might have had on hold. So he's I you know, I don't think anyone in my family is 100% healthy, but Patrick's pretty good. Lemon. My 13 year old. She's wonderful. I think she's just an amazing kid. Two, she's learning to play guitar. She working on a feminist fanzine that she's doing. She's just really a cool kid. She does struggle with all the trauma that she's seen in her life with her brother. And the dynamic between her brother and I, I think it's got to be so hard for both of them to go through because with the drug addiction, there was just a lot of anger and and unhappiness and so many tears and so much trauma. And with the diabetes, and both of us being diabetic and moody, just you know, Nolan and I were a lot of like, in some ways. I always say he got the worst of me and his dad and then it was amplified. But he's really, you know, I think they I think both of my other kids are are very fortunate to be very bright and very aware of their own situations

Scott Benner 39:57
or their other autoimmune 's with any buddies, celiac thyroid anything.

Jen 40:03
So I would say that Patrick, who will not go to a doctor about it has possibly got like, IBS, celiac or something. He does have some stomach problems. But no, nobody's been diagnosed yet.

Scott Benner 40:17
Okay. How about your exes side of the family? Do you have any knowledge of them?

Jen 40:22
They don't have any and I'm close with the family. They don't really have any autoimmune. You know, they've got cancer in their family, but no and heart problems, but no autoimmune.

Scott Benner 40:31
Okay. So I'm gonna kind of fast forward a little bit now, because I'm assuming that from 1819 2021, it's just probably story after story of hard times, and craziness and stuff like that. Yeah. Are you? Absolutely. How did you take care of yourself during that time?

Jen 40:51
Well, that's a really good question. In all honesty, I don't think I did. I stressed a lot, I worried constantly, I wasn't sleeping. One night, I had thought, well, I can't sleep. This is so stressful when we have a glass of wine. And so I started drinking wine to go to sleep. And it didn't take very long until I was a full blown alcoholic, I could not stop. I checked myself into the hospital, in a what I like to call a bold career move, because I live in a very small town. And I went to treatment, so that I could stop drinking, and I haven't drank since that was three, almost three years. Good for you that I'll go. Yeah. But I if I didn't believe that addiction is an illness, I would be ashamed. But I wish I hadn't taken that first drink. You know, I didn't drink at all before that for many years. But it just it got me. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:58
You were. I mean, was there a moment when you like, Did you see the juxtaposition? Did you say, Well, I'm medicating myself, the way that no one is?

Jen 42:08
Yeah, yeah. I said, I saw it right away. I saw it right away. But I couldn't stop. I went to meetings, AAA meetings and got my 24 hour chip, probably 24 times. You know, I wasn't able to physically stop I was having withdrawals and all of that and it was, life had become so stressful. that I had, just I guess I kind of threw myself into drinking. And I kind of had given up.

Scott Benner 42:45
Okay, yeah, I was gonna say at what point during all this to just go Alright, Everybody get in the garage. Let's start the car and go to sleep. Like gig. Yeah, seriously? Yeah.

Jen 42:55
Yeah, I felt like it not with the other two kids. But honestly, I had ideas of, you know, I felt so no one. He doesn't fit anywhere in this world. There's no help for him. I can't help him. Nobody seems to care. He doesn't, you know, he just can't get the help that he needs. He doesn't belong on this planet. And I'm just gonna take him with me. I had thoughts like that. And that's terrible. It's terrible. But I didn't want him to go alone.

Scott Benner 43:21
I can understand. I mean, what your Yeah, it's not what Listen, my kids got type one diabetes, and you know, thyroid. And you know, last night, for example, her toes got numb, which seems to be happening out of nowhere. And you know, like, there are things like that, that you think, well, these things suck. But we're gonna get through life, like, reasonably well, pretty great. But at what point what point does someone just pile one too many pebbles on the pile? It's on your head. And you just think I can't I just can't like it. Yeah. Not only that, you can't shoulder it. But that, that none of the things about life that make life pleasurable, exist anymore, because you have diabetes, you're depressed, you're drinking, he's doing drugs. He's got diabetes, he's bipolar. There's no second in the day that I can imagine for you where you were just like, you know, Leave It to Beaver. Like none of that existed. Oh, no. Yeah. Right.

Jen 44:15
I mean, I still make dinners for him. I still did like a lot of mom's stuff. But I clocked out, and for about about 18 months, I clocked out and then, you know, a clock back in and I knew that things wouldn't be perfect when I clock back in. You know, there were times when, when I would be so drunk that Nolan would pick me up and carry me to bed up the stairs. And I just thought that was so funny at the time. All isn't it funny? And it wasn't funny. I mean, it's really sad. But we also had that mutual love for each other that we cared for each other so much that, you know, he wanted to take care of me too. And when I wasn't drinking, he couldn't take care of me. And that caused some sadness for him. But it got to a point. I said spent so much of no one's life, so afraid of him dying, just petrified that he's dying. And then one day, I realized that now more than being afraid of him dying, I was afraid of doing this when I'm 80

Scott Benner 45:18
I see this, and that was a big deal. It's never gonna stop.

Jen 45:22
And I became more afraid of of that than him dying. Because I knew he was unhappy. I knew that I was unhappy, I knew that my other two kids were suffering. And it was becoming a burden on everybody around us. Because with drug addiction comes so much manipulation, and so much pain for the people. Like my mother could never say no to him for anything. You know, and, and because she loved him. And he would manipulate and cause harm. You know, he would take things from people sell them for drug money. What drug addicts do?

Scott Benner 46:02
Yeah. Are you saying I'm gonna, this might be ham fisted for a second, I gotta get through this thought. But are you saying that at some point? It it mimics I don't know, like someone being born with so many birth defects or so many medical issues that you think to yourself like, this is not this person's not equipped to live life even. And if you start thinking about that idea of like, maybe this is just a failed experiment, and it's not fair to them to be in this situation.

Jen 46:35
I think after I picked him up out of comas, so many times and Ted go to the hospital and psych Yeah, absolutely. And he had said to me himself, you know, I, I had complained a lot about it, like no one, this is hurting me so much to see you in the state that I see you in almost dead, like the time before he died that he went to the hospital, his body temperature was 87. That's dead, but he lived through it. And the doctor told me he's gonna have really bad brain damage and damage if it wasn't fine. Like he was fine, except for. He wasn't fine. But he probably lost some impulse control. But he didn't, you know, they said he was going to be a vegetable. And I'd said, Well, we're not going to keep him around as a vegetable. That's not what he wants or what anyone wants. But yeah, you're you're right. It was like it felt like that. Yeah. You know, now that you say that it felt it felt a lot like that. This is that I was doing more harm by keeping him around. And he even told me, Mom, stop saving me. Maybe it's my time to be an angel. And I thought

Scott Benner 47:41
he could that he could think that is one thing, but for you to hear it and to think, well, he might be right. That's another that's another thing like, like his, his existence felt cruel to him.

Jen 47:54
It did. Yeah, it did. Okay. I mean, the the existence with diabetes is cruel. The existence with diabetes and bipolar disorder with schizoid, fast, effective traits. That's mean. No, that's not. That's terrible.

Scott Benner 48:11
And then in that situation, the drugs are inevitable, actually, I mean, I've spoken Absolutely. I've spoken to enough people have have Bipolar to know that the drugs are are inevitable after that. So yeah. And you describe something that I don't want to skip over. And I also don't want to make you dig through it too deeply. Because it sounds painful. But the one thing I think maybe we're not talking about is that being lost on drugs doesn't exactly set you up for taking care of your blood sugar as well. So no, right. So not only is he kind of obliterated on what was the drug of choice by the end, methamphetamines. Okay. Not only is that happening, but on top of that wildly out of control blood sugars.

Jen 48:53
Oh, yeah. He became septic, probably five times and had to go to the hospital in the last year of his life. He tested positive, you know, he tested his blood sugar was in the 1500s. When they had him in the ICU, one of the times it took him three days to get it down. Below 700 I feel like it was ridiculous. He had sepsis, which is deadly. He had tested positive for tuberculosis. Like the kid made it through so much. It was done his body just the havoc that that wreaked on his body. You know, it was poor body and he I just looked at him and I think what a beautiful kid he was, and all the things that were going on inside of it the brain and and his body.

Scott Benner 49:50
If I give you a magic wand, you can lift away one of his troubles. I'm guessing it's the mental illness stuff, right?

Jen 49:58
And it's funny you say that because when he was cared, it was always the diabetes I'd take care of, it's always the diabetes, that I would take away. But once the drug addiction started, it was definitely the mental illness I would take away because that would help that would have that would have made it easy to recover from drugs easier to recover from drug addiction.

Scott Benner 50:18
This is uh, maybe, uh, maybe this questions, not clear, but or maybe it is, but if you take the bipolar away, do you think he was still an addict? Or do you think the drugs were a function of the bipolar?

Jen 50:31
I think the drugs were a function of the bipolar, okay, for sure. I don't think you would have tried the drugs at all, he was so impulsive as a kid. You know, if someone said This feels good, he would have tried it. And he was always that way. very impulsive.

Scott Benner 50:47
Gotcha. Okay, so anyway, geez, Jeff, give me a second. I don't know how you're living through it. Because it's, it's on top of me now. Oh, no, no, I'm okay. I don't want you to worry about me. It's just, I'm just listening very intently to what you're saying. And I'm thinking ahead and trying to imagine things. And it's a lot all at once. Yeah. So when do I know? When do I see you? Like, pop up in the Facebook page? Like, what? What got you there? Like, what made you find? Did you find the podcast first or the Facebook page? First,

Jen 51:26
I saw on the Facebook page first. And I think out of all the Facebook pages that I belong to for the for diabetes, this was the one that was that was good that had that was more real to me. And I posted something about Has anyone else ever struggled with Max meth addiction? I was reaching out this was the last time that he was in the hospital, Biddle. Um, was it maybe it was when he was in treatment, and he went to the hospital in Champaign, when he lived in Champaign, Illinois, and he was in treatment there. I had just said, you know, my son's in the hospital, he's has anybody else ever struggled with the meth addiction? What do you do? You know, what is this, you know, just reaching out. And the response that I got from people was one, so supportive, and to so much response, and I was just, I was shocked. Because most people kind of ignore that kind of thing. Most, especially parents with diabetes, they don't want to, they don't want to hear it. And they don't want to see that that could happen. They just, it's, it's too much to think about for sure. And that's something I thought about, I don't want to worry, parents of new diabetics by any means.

Scott Benner 52:40
That's my for you, I listen, I often have this thought, while I'm making the podcast and seeing all these people's lives virtually, that, you know, people, you know, babies are born every second, there's just countless numbers of them. And they're all going to go in slightly similar in slightly different directions. And some kids are gonna end up being alcoholics, and some kids are going to end up not and some kids are going to end up on drugs. And some kids aren't some kids are going to be incredibly kind. And some people are going to be mean and like blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And right. And we knew you have this idea when you're when your kids are younger, and they get diabetes, like oh, this is the thing they're going to be except those people still end up being alcoholics, drug addicts, nice people, etc. You don't you don't think of that when they're eight. And I'm, you know, I can hear when you're talking about Nolan even. I feel like you picture him sometimes. Like he's six, seven years old, when he's just nothing but possibilities.

Jen 53:38
Yeah, yeah. And I saw that throughout his life, I still till the till the day he died. Well, maybe a couple of weeks before I stopped, kind of, but he was doing so poorly. But I still had fleeting moments till the day he died of feeling. Hope for him. Yeah. And you know what a smart guy he is and what he could do, you know, he, he was very smart. And he was such a talented drummer and an artist, and just all of these things. And I thought, you know, he had just gotten a tattoo gun for his birthday. His grandma said, that's what he wants. Should I get it for him? And I said, Who cares? At this point in his life, getting whatever makes him happy.

Scott Benner 54:24
All right, in this rocket right into the ground. Great. Yeah, let's go for it. Right.

Jen 54:27
Yeah, basically, yeah. And he wanted to tattoo me and I was actually going to let him after he, you know, showed that he could do a tattoo on himself. And so he did a tattoo on himself, which he had done when he was younger anyway, with the kid made a tattoo gun out of a remote control car motor, like he was 10 or 11. When he did that he just was smart, but the deviant and because who wants to kid detect?

Scott Benner 54:54
What a weird, weird parenting moment my child has fashioned another device out of a device except pig likes to draw a picture of Scooby Doo on himself. So now I'm not sure, exactly.

Jen 55:04
Well, you know, he tried to he tried to tattoo the word love on his arm. But I confiscated his gun. So he only had the first two letters. So it said l o. So I called it his British tattoo, I'd say hello. He got so mad.

Scott Benner 55:20
So, so back to where you're at in that Facebook group, like you come in, you asked that question, what I saw, and I can't see the whole group, like, it's too big for me to, like, stay on top of but what I saw was a lot of just support for you. I don't think people had a lot of practical advice, but they were there was a ton of kindness

Jen 55:41
to absolute so much kindness. Yeah. Was how much time was

Scott Benner 55:45
that actually helpful for you are?

Jen 55:47
Absolutely, absolutely. And a lot of people saying yes, my sister's a drug addict, or this and that and just talking about people who had addiction in their family, it just opens up the conversation for people. And it's so liberating. Because you don't go around, you know, everyone's got that bumper sticker that says, you know, my son's an honor roll student, you don't say, hey, my son got into a really good treatment facility. I would, I would, but but they don't make that bumper sticker. But shouldn't they? Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:18
my son handles math fine. Just yeah, no way to do that. So so he gets put into treatment around the time you're on the Facebook group, and then gets out. And then it happens again, am I remembering that right?

Jen 56:32
Yeah, he came back to Sioux City. And he relapsed pretty quickly. And then he had, I want to say two or three more stents in the hospital.

Scott Benner 56:44
And he made these related stuff.

Jen 56:46
It was always for diabetes. But it was always because so what would happen when he would do the math and he would be up on meth for several days, and then he would go to sleep and people on meth sleep for several days at a time? Well, unfortunately, Nolan doesn't have several days to sleep because he needs to take insulin. So many times, I would kind of try to follow his pattern, I would go to where he was, I would give him insulin, I would find his insulin and give it to him. And, and that was another thing is insulin was never kept in a good way. You never knew if it was expired or what you know what you were, you'd give him whatever, right. And sometimes he would fight you and if he was going to punch me, I wouldn't do it. You know, I would say okay, we're gonna go I, I love you goodbye. But I would try pretty hard to get his insulin. And it's a miracle that he lived through that as many times as he did. So he would wake up and take insulin and you know, his sugar would come down and he'd be fine for a week or two. And then you'd start up again. So this pattern is hard to follow the pattern because it changed.

Scott Benner 57:57
Testing. Give me a testing.

Jen 57:59
Yep. Testing.

Scott Benner 58:00
Okay, sorry. So you were trying to chart you were trying to find a pattern you and you couldn't. So when you went and visited? Yeah. You were visiting him like in like, where he was held up using it, wasn't it? Was he even living on his own? Or was he bouncing around or

Jen 58:14
he was homeless for a while. And then he on his birthday? September 16, my mom let him move back in. He was already kind of staying. He would go there to shower during the day and stay for a really long time. And she would make him leave at night. There was our you know, we were trying to do the tough love, like you can't do drugs and stay here. But she just couldn't. And I'm glad because he died at home and not on a street corner at my mom's house. And yeah, so and I had been I was in Des Moines, so I was two and a half hours away. And then on the way home. I got a call from Patrick. And Patrick said, Nolan is cold. And he's not I don't think he's breathing. And I said, Okay, call 911. And I had just left the morning and had two and a half hours to travel. And I called Dennis who was driving in front of me my fiancee and told him what happened. I said, I think no one's gone. And this is something we just were, it was a matter of time, because he had just been in the hospital weeks before that we just knew. And you know, I hung up the phone and then I panicked and lost it and started crying. My youngest was with me and she started crying. And we were just kind of panicking all the way home. And then we got home and he was gone. The paramedics come and pronounced him dead. My mom lost her mind and you know, it just it was it was a big family and then we just kind of sat around and told stories about him and It felt peaceful.

Scott Benner 1:00:02
Can I? You You said you knew this was gonna happen. I remember you being on line once and saying that he was in a rehab, but they kicked him out or something and you were like he's going to die like you were you were positive like a week before this happened that it was going to

Jen 1:00:18
yes, this was this. This was not in rehab this that was in the coffee psych facility in the hospital, and he was supposed to go to inpatient treatment. And they had had him signed up to go to inpatient treatment, all the doctors, and I'm looking through the doctor's notes and everything, everything says inpatient treatment. Well, the very last day, the nurse practitioner who has done this before, several times, let him go. And I called, I heard that they were gonna let him go. Because he called and said, Can you pick me up? And I'm like, hang on, let me make some calls. So I called and I talked to Sarah, the social worker, and I say, Tara, she can't let him go. He's gonna die. He almost died. The last time he did she know, he almost died. And she said, Yeah. And I said, Does she know that he's going to die if she lets him go? And she was quiet for a second? And then she said, Yes. And I just lost it. I couldn't, you know, and then we picked him up. And I picked him up and took him to my mom's we talked to her, they decided he couldn't stay there if he was going to use and he said, he's, you know, he wouldn't stay there. And he was homeless for a couple of weeks. And that's, and then he came back to my mom's he was at my mom's for another. He was I suppose he was homeless for a week. And he came back to my mom for two weeks, and then that's when he died.

Scott Benner 1:01:49
Well, I'm very sorry that any of this happened.

Jen 1:01:52
Thank you. Me too. Of course.

Scott Benner 1:01:54
Can I ask you? Was there any sense of like, relief? That's might be the wrong piece?

Jen 1:02:01
Or no, yeah. It's not a wrong word. Yeah, there was lots of sense of relief with it. I mean, because he wasn't suffering anymore. You know, we had our first holidays. And not only, I mean, I missed him so much. And it was hard, and it was sad. But when you have a drug addict, the holidays are not good times. Because you're constantly worrying about what is what are they going to do? What are they going to show up and have a problem with? How are they going to, you know, he would become very, his sugar would get really high, and he would be extremely moody and mean, and yell and verbally abusive, and just these things that would just very upset me so much, even though I knew that it wasn't coming from his heart. It's just upsetting. And so there's been relief. But then there's been the extreme sadness, and then the the sadness for what his life should have been. Yeah. Came right. You know, I hate to say should because that's presumptuous. But I what, what it could have been or what, you know, why did he have such a hard time? Yeah. You know, and all these other kids get to have nothing physically wrong with them. You know, all kids with diabetes have such a hard time.

Scott Benner 1:03:19
Yeah. But then once it starts to, when all this other stuff on top of it, though. Oh, yeah,

Jen 1:03:25
absolutely. Absolutely. Is that fair? And I don't think life is supposed to be fair. I'm not. I'm not one of those people. But I mean, nice was a little more fair.

Scott Benner 1:03:38
A little more fair would be okay. Yeah. How long has he been gone now?

Jen 1:03:43
So he died on October 3 2021. So it'll be six months coming up soon here. It seems like longer. And so also, it seems like yesterday, too, sometimes.

Scott Benner 1:03:54
So has this. I've so I still barely don't want to ask you these questions. But you can. It's pretty open, has his passing made your other kids lives easier in some ways, and harder in some ways.

Jen 1:04:09
It's hard for them because they lost their brother and their friend. But it opened doors for sure. One, I've gotten to know them a little more now. So they kind of get their mom back, which is nice. We're learning to know each other a little bit now. Patrick is going to go to college now. He's never gone left town or anything like that, because he's wanted to stay home in case something happened with his brother. That was never asked of him. But it's just what you do for family. So yeah, some doors are opened and I think that Nolan would have been very, very happy to open those doors.

Scott Benner 1:04:52
Was he aware of the impediment that he was on other people's lives?

Jen 1:04:58
I think so. And he was definitely aware of how much he impacted my life. And he would say, don't do those things for me. He wanted independence, he wanted that. But we knew what would happen if he had it. And it did, you know, the more I pulled back, the more sick he got, and I but, but pushing more and taking more control would have made his quality of life so poor. Because what 24 year old wants to be taken care of by their mother,

Scott Benner 1:05:37
I think you're in a completely Listen, my understanding of all this is is, you know, obviously not yours. But I've now interviewed two people who have who are bipolar. And now have this conversation with you about your son. There's an after dark episode, I think it's back in the three hundreds, it's just called after dark bipolar. And it's okay. It's with a young man who has type one and bipolar. And I'm telling you that if his experience was even anything like your sons, I don't understand how you're supposed to. I don't understand how you're supposed to win. You know, so I couldn't see a path through it. When I spoke to him. I don't see a path to it. While I'm speaking to you. I think that you're either. I mean, I'm trying to figure out why you seem so okay. Right now. Or, I mean, how is

Jen 1:06:29
it? I think, I think that I'm okay. I guess, I guess it's who I am deep down. Like I said to the lady doing my eye exam, she had known me and known about my son and said she was sorry. And I said, you know, I got it late. Think of it this way, I have two amazing children living and I got 24 years was an amazing, brilliant human who taught me a lot. And I have to think of it that way. Because there's no any other way is very negative. And really, and don't get me wrong, there are times when all I am is a bundle of tears, and I just hate everybody around me. And I have to curl up in a ball and go cry by myself and write sad stories and just feel incredibly sorry for myself and miss my son. I have to do that sometimes. But then there's other days where I wake up, and I feel that way. And I I let myself do it for half an hour. And then I have to move on with the day. I do some yoga, I'll do some, you know, make some coffee and just read or meditate and then just go to work. Whatever. I I guess I speak about it, frankly, because it is Frank. It's It's It's facts. And missing tremendously most of the time, but I still feel him here. If that makes sense. It does.

Scott Benner 1:07:58
When you close your eyes and you think of him. Is he at a certain age?

Jen 1:08:03
Yeah, I think them at about 2021. Okay. Yeah, I think of him about 21. I mean, I miss him as a little boy, but I think of him is perpetually about 21 With just a little bit of scruffy facial hair, messy hair, making some dumb joke driving around with the dog in his car. You know, his best friend was that dog Tommy and he I'd be driving home from work and I'd see him pass me on the road, the dog sitting in the passenger seat like a girlfriend. It was just the cutest thing in the world. So

Scott Benner 1:08:40
was he able to have any personal relationships.

Jen 1:08:44
He had girlfriends. And he had a lot of long term friends a lot more friends than I knew about because his funeral is packed full of kids. He did have friendships and he had some girlfriends, but towards the end, I think the addiction and he even said Who wants to go out with a drug addict? You know? And I said, Well, yeah, I always hoped you'd find a girlfriend that would be like a nurse and want to take care of him. But I didn't I wouldn't want to do that to her either. Right? Because it's too hard.

Scott Benner 1:09:17
Do you think? How, how prevalent Do you think that the drug problem is in your area? In general? Oh, it's

Jen 1:09:26
huge. It's huge. There's a lot of it here. So cities, especially with methamphetamines, it's really big. And alcoholism is huge here too. It's kind of you know, it's a conservative conservative area of Iowa where there's a lot of very poor people. And then there's your middle class and then there's a lot of very wealthy people. The poor and the wealthy are make up a huge portion of the population. And it's anytime you have those economic issues you have people that are doing? I mean, some people use methamphetamine so they can work three jobs. And they do it for years.

Scott Benner 1:10:07
Wow. Yeah. And not to make a ton of money just to keep going.

Jen 1:10:11
Oh, yeah, just pay the bills. Right.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
It's sad. No kidding. It's sad. Jen, is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you wish we would have talked about?

Jen 1:10:21
I don't think so. I think you did a really good job asking good questions.

Scott Benner 1:10:25
Thank you. I've been looking forward in an odd way to talking to you for a while. Me too. Yeah, I just know that. As the as the day gets closer and closer, and I see your name coming closer to me on the on the calendar. I just I don't want to do a bad job is how I started thinking as it gets closer. Oh,

Jen 1:10:45
you do? Wonderful. You did great. I made me feel good. And no judgment. And I really liked that. And the stuff you said to me before, too, about this is real. This is real stuff. And you don't want to sugarcoat things like that. No pun intended.

Scott Benner 1:10:59
Yeah, I just think that, um, I mean, listen, I whoever would hear Nolan's story, and judge him. I mean, has no, no, no idea about health or, you know, like, it's just, there's only so many things that can get attached to you in the course of a lifetime, then they're gonna drag you down. Point. Like, I mean, yeah, they're not like, you know what I mean? Like, it's, yeah, mental illness is still completely misunderstood by some people. This this poor kid was, he was just taking the past that were available to him. And yeah, none of them are good. No, you know, it's not that there was a good path available, and he just decided not to take it. I just don't think his options were in any way going to lead them to where anybody would hope for him to go. Yeah,

Jen 1:11:47
I agree. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:48
I'm glad you said that. No, it's sucks. But I mean, it does.

Jen 1:11:53
Get 24 good years,

Scott Benner 1:11:55
ya know, and I'm really impressed with your excuse me. I'm really impressed with your ability to, to focus on the good stuff. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's really wonderful. I want to wish you a ton of success. And are you taking care of yourself now? How's your time? I am. Yeah,

Jen 1:12:14
I am. Yes. I just passed my written out but the tests with no retinopathy so I'm, I'm happy with that. Because I'm old. And yeah, yeah, I'm doing I'm doing good. I finally got myself to You know, I'm on the league right now. And and I'm taking a lot better care of myself now, too. So, in honor Nolan, we always say that everything goofy that we do. We say it's an honor and all and and everything, you know, but there's a lot of things I do in honor of him too. So

Scott Benner 1:12:41
listen, I we didn't talk about him at all. But the bravest person that story is the guy that's dating you.

Jen 1:12:47
Yeah, I know. Tell me about it. He's He's a lucky guy. Dennis is a really good person. You know, he has a good you know, his dad was a type one. So he has a lot of understanding of that to

Scott Benner 1:12:59
really well, I'm glad you found. I'm really happy. Like it made me happy to think that you that you have somebody. Yeah,

Jen 1:13:05
you're the second person to say that today. So yeah, you're right. It makes me happy too.

Scott Benner 1:13:10
Yeah. I mean, you've been through a lot too. You deserve it. And sort of your children, I hope I hope Patrick goes off and, and builds a big life for himself. And I think lemon sounds like she has enough time to kind of process all this and, and find her own way. So

Jen 1:13:27
he's doing good.

Scott Benner 1:13:28
I'm glad for you.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:29
I thank you so much, of course.

Scott Benner 1:13:40
Once again, a big thanks to Jen for coming on the show and sharing Nolan's story. I also like to thank touched by type one.org. And remind you to head over there and check them out. And the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, which you can learn more about it contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. There's also links in the show notes of your podcast player, and links at juicebox podcast.com. To these and all the sponsors, head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and take that survey. And if you're interested in more after dark episodes, I can tell you about them. Let me wait The music's just wait one second.

There are so many more episodes in the afterdark series. Couple of ways. You can find them either at juicebox podcast.com, scroll down, you'll see them there. Or you can go to the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes, go to the top of the page, the page or the top of the page, click on the featured tab. There's some featured posts there. One of them says Juicebox Podcast series. And there's a whole bunch of lists a whole bunch of lists. There's lists of lists. No seriously, there's these really great little graphics that break down different series. For example, there's some special episodes. There's the Pro Tip series, the quickstart guide how we eat diabetes variables. Scott and Jenny episodes, how to Bolus for fat and protein. And right now, there's so many great lists here. Oh, there's a whole series about pregnancy, thyroid, and then after dark, this is a episode. What do we say at the beginning? 677? No 678 of the podcast, but it might be like, oh, gosh, let me I can read them to you. First afterdark was it episode 274 is about drinking to 83 was about weed 305 trauma and addiction. 319 was sex with type one from a female perspective. 336 was depression and self harm. 365 was sex with type one from a male's perspective 372 divorced and co parenting 380 For bipolar 393 bulimia and depression 399 heroin addiction for 22 is called afterdark Ami. 450 psychedelics for 62 Sexual Assault PTSD for 72 living with bipolar five await adult child of divorce 531 diabetes Complications 545 Eating Disorder 558 life struggles 577 50 years 585 ADHD cocaine and abandonment. These are the titles 606 childhood trauma 618 sex worker 627 Male disordered eating 651 recovery and today of course 678 Nolan story. Check them out. I think they're some of the more brave episodes of the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#677 Defining Diabetes: Hypo and Hyper

Scott and Jenny Smith define diabetes terms

Scott and Jenny Smith define diabetes terms In this Defining Diabetes episode, Scott and Jenny explain Hyper and Hypo.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 677. It's a short one, but it's good

Hello, everybody on this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, Jenny Smith and I will be defining hyper and hypo as it relates to all things, not just diabetes. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you'll hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician. Before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. I'm going to just ask you the briefest of favors. If you are a US citizen who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. When you get there, join the registry take the survey takes fewer than 10 minutes, I would consider it a personal favor T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please share it with someone who you think might also enjoy it. If you're loving the defining diabetes series. There are so many of them to choose from right there in your podcast player, where diabetes pro tip.com. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med. US med is a place where you get diabetes supplies, and they do it. Well they do it better. They offer you better service and better care than you're accustomed to getting. All you need to do to get a free benefits check is to go to us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Hi, Jenny. Hi, Scott. How are you?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:05
I'm fine. How are you today?

Scott Benner 2:07
Good. Have you seen the little animations of you and I talking on Instagram and and Tiktok yet?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:14
I have I saw when you originally showed me what was going to be there but I have not seen recently. Because I have to admit I'm not a tic tac, or Instagrammer.

Scott Benner 2:26
So the person making the videos Maggie, who is a great young artist whose sister has type one diabetes. She has now added what I'm gonna call googly eyes to us. So while we're talking now the eyeballs move around inside of the eyes. Oh no, I'm absolutely like enamored by it. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:43
I'm sure that if I showed it to my boys, they would probably think it was the coolest thing in the world to see

Scott Benner 2:47
your voice coming out of a cartoon. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, you should check it out. I don't think you should get on Tik Tok because I have to tell you, it really is a time suck. Like it is it is the scrolling. Like I got it just to put this stuff, you know, for the for the podcast app. And then I'm like scrolling and I'm like, oh my god, I can see how people get lost in this. It's fascinating. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:06
yes, I have stay away. I have more things that I need to do then.

Scott Benner 3:11
Yeah. If you're not on Tik Tok, you're doing okay. I think I was hoping today that we could define something that I mean, in all honesty, I had skipped over we I'd made a list and thought this isn't necessary. But it is. So we're going to do it. I want to define hypo and hyper just those words, and then we'll attach them to diabetes, and a couple of other things. So you know, everybody understands, again, Isabel helping me with the Facebook page, she said, I know this seems basic, but you really could use an episode on what hyper and hypothyroidism is people ask especially new newly diagnosed people, we don't have anywhere to send them. So here we are. Great. Awesome. Okay, so let's start like super simple, right? We're just going to use the dictionary. Hypo is a noun, and it means

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:11
under or beneath a level of where you want to be. Right? And, yes, I mean, hypo hypoglycemia, hypo thyroid, hypo, many other medical terms that come along with hypo, it is like, it's low, right? It's under where a level of comfort would be.

Scott Benner 4:35
I also should have said and this is going to be a good indication to all of you that I stopped paying attention to my English teacher in about seventh grade, but it actually can be used as a verb as well, but we mostly think of it as a prefix, under beneath down less than normal, in a lower state of oxidation, for example, in a low and usually the lowest position in a series of compounds. So glycemia You know, I didn't think of this but darn it. Let's define. Let's define glycemia for a minute. Why not? I don't even think glycemia is a word, right? It is the presence of glucose in the blood. Now I'm learning. Yes. All right, like this podcast, okay? Jenny, then you

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:21
can then you can put them together low presence of glucose in the blood. Yeah. Jenny, I hypoglycemia.

Scott Benner 5:29
I was gonna say I would listen to this podcast. Okay, so glycaemia the presence of glucose in the blood. So hypo, beneath normal, less than normal, presence of glycine, of glucose in the blood, and then hyper, which, if you've anyone's ever had a hyper kid, you know, this won't sound crazy, highly excited, extremely active, excessively excessive. That is or exists in a space of more than three dimensions that one doesn't really like It's like hyperspace. Oh, yeah, I really should have paid attention in school. This is all very interesting. I feel like an idiot. Okay, so but excessive, is where we're going to ride on this. So hyperglycemia excessive presence of glucose in the blood. That's it. Now, why somebody couldn't just call it high blood sugar and low blood sugar. You know, smart people, doctors, they fancy.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:25
Right? Well, and they're just medical terms, right? I mean, hyper and hypo, even in the sense of other medical conditions that carry that same prefix, if you will. They're just a medical term, rather than saying high and low blood sugar or high and low blood glucose even I also think, just glucose and sugar, right? I mean, when you say, my blood sugar is this, some people say my blood glucose is this, it's just another word for the same thing.

Scott Benner 6:54
Do you have a preference? Personally, when you write it out? And you know, someone else is gonna say it? Do you think blood glucose or blood sugar? How do you write it out?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:02
I abbreviate the G, because that's my quick way to type up something.

Scott Benner 7:08
After writing blogs, for so long, I did the same thing. But in the beginning, I had this like this blood sugar sound. I don't know. Like, I like this is not sound, I don't know, appropriate or something like that. But I don't think of it now. It's however it comes off my fingers when I'm typing. Like when I'm talking to somebody, I don't think of it one way I don't care. I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:28
guess if you, if I think about when I write about it, when I'm writing more professionally, I use the term blood glucose. And when I'm writing more from just a general kind of public, I typically use blood sugar. Okay, not that people don't know what glucose is, especially within the diabetes realm. I just think that blood sugar is often more what we say. Yeah. And so it's more readable. I don't know if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 8:02
Yeah, I think it just makes it feel more affable, honestly, just sure available to people. As an example, and we're not going to turn this into a third grade English lesson, but hypothyroidism is a condition in which the thyroid gland doesn't produce enough thyroid hormone. So back to hypo, low last, etc. Hyperthyroidism, the overproduction of a hormone by the butterfly shaped gland and the neck called the thyroid. Excessive too much. I just pulled up a couple of other words to make the point that it's not always about. It's not always about medicine. Hyperbole, as an example, is an exaggerated statement. We're claimed not meant to be taken literally hyper hyper. Right? Is the prefix. My, my last thought is just to get away away and Jenny used to be a nurse. Right, Jenny? What is hypo perfusion?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:56
Good to correct you I wasn't a nurse, or I'm not a dietician.

Scott Benner 9:01
Sorry. It's the same thing.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:05
Oh, well, you know, if I had thought that when I was going to school, then I probably would have ended up being a nurse. But yeah, so that different,

Scott Benner 9:15
I make a suggestion. Sure. We'll have to add CDE to the defining diabetes series.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:23
That would be great because you can have many credentials that precede CDE, which is actually not CDE even anymore. It's now c d c e s certified diabetes care and education specialists to make it even more complicated than it ever was.

Scott Benner 9:40
Have you given over to that yet? Because you you said you were gonna fight it in the big guy

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:44
in credentialing just in terms of my signature and the way that I you know, put, again, sort of publications and that kind of stuff out I do. But I still call myself a CDE because I that's just like, what I've been long term.

Scott Benner 9:59
I have to Say I like these. Oh my gosh, I've gotten too hot tea and it doesn't matter. Oh no. I'm just gonna start drinking scalding water. When I'm recording from Elon just, I'll drip a little lemon in it and pour down my throat. I was gonna say I like the free flowing pneus of our conversations, because my just miss speaking for a second, immediately made my brain go, Hey, why are we not defining this stuff for people? Because people all the time, say, who just see today? I don't know, I saw the lady. You don't I mean, like, the doctor is the doctor, an endocrinologist? I don't know, what's the woman I don't know. Like, like, you know, she writes the prescriptions. It seems like she's got a medical degree.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:37
That's I saw these people. And they told me to do this. And I don't necessarily know what they are, you know, in fact, in terms of like that defining of even clinicians, many endo offices now sort of transition often on between, you see the Endo, you see the nurse practitioner or you see the Endo, or you see the PA, a physician's assistant, right, and you go back and forth. So it's not every three or four months, you're seeing the same Endo, you may see them only twice a year and in between, you actually follow up with the nurse practitioner, the physician's assistant, because that's the time that they have.

Scott Benner 11:13
So my brain like, I know, you have a firm background in nutrition. Like I understand all that. And I guess my brain just was like, well, she's the CDE she must have had to have been a nurse in the middle of it. And now so Okay, so we have more stuff anyway. Just

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:27
remember things in nursing school that I was like, Yeah, I don't want to do that. I don't want to ever ever do that to a person. So no, I'm not going to be a nurse.

Scott Benner 11:37
Well, then just for fun.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:38
I I very much appreciate the nurses who do and can do those types of things. But I That's not me. I can do blood. You could bleed all over me. I could do wounds, weird looking gashes.

Scott Benner 11:51
Where's the line pee?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:53
Oh, the line is mucus. Oh,

Scott Benner 11:57
I wish you could have saw the face Jenny just made we should make it a poster. I just sideways or tongue came out or one of her eyes went one way she's like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:05
yes. No, I was I was an ICU dietitian. So I did like tube feedings and IV nutrition and all that kind of stuff. And I would have to move away when they were doing like suctioning of patients and stuff. I like the noises and not for you. Not for me. Nope. My Oh, come back. Thank you. My wife

Scott Benner 12:27
is like three clinicals away from being an RN. And I mistakenly got her pregnant before she could finish off. So I do remember that she never got back to it. But she even said that. She thought by the time if she would have finished she's like, I don't think I could have like actually helped people. Like it just was Yeah, her vibe. And it wasn't about the people. It was more about the that stuff. Okay, but anyway, just for shits and giggles Do you know what hyper perfusion is? Now that I brought it up? Because if not, I gotta tell people.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:57
What and why? I'm curious actually. Why?

Scott Benner 13:00
Because it had the word hypo in it. And I thought I wonder if anyone just randomly know what this is? Oh,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:05
well, it has to do with like blood flow. It's hyper. Hyper is more and hypo is a reduction in the amount of blood flow.

Scott Benner 13:15
This is why you're listening to the podcast because Jenny knows stuff about stuff she doesn't know about. Hypo fusion has nothing to do with diabetes, but it describes a reduced amount of blood flow. There you go. You can't trust somebody who knows stuff. They're not supposed to know who you're supposed to trust.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:29
Correct. There you go. Well, thank

Scott Benner 13:31
you so much for doing this. I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:32
really You're welcome. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 13:36
That was good. That was hilarious. Actually. It's always fun. Good time. All right. hyperperfusion. I'm getting rid of tabs on my

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:43
Yeah. Are we stalled for a second? I need to I think I forgot my orange link in my kitchen. And I need to go grab it because my loop is red right now. We'll be right back.

Scott Benner 13:54
No problem. While Jenny's off getting her orange link. I'm going to tell you about today's sponsor, US med

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on next week's defining diabetes, Jenny and I will be defining all of the different types of diabetes. And there are more than you think. To find a list of all of the defining diabetes episodes, go to Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, it's a private group for people who listen to this podcast. And right there at the top of the page. You click on a little tab called where the is it God, I can never remember the name of this. I'm going to curse. I'm going to curse. I don't want to curse just trying to finish this ad and I'm done for the week when I get this done. Like I actually get a day off tomorrow. I mean, I still have to record but I don't have to edit and I just want to tell you the name of this. Featured, you go to the Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private Facebook group. Almost 25,000 people in it. They use insulin, they chat with each other, they help each other. And under the featured tab at the top. There's lists of episodes in different series, including the defining diabetes episodes. So if I didn't sound too crazy, just then maybe you'll go check them out. I just didn't want to curse. That's the end of my week and I had knee surgery. I'm feeling okay, but I'm not supposed to be sitting here right now. I'm supposed to have my flights. This is not your problem. Just go find that. Just go find it. It's Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. It's a private group answer a couple questions you get right in. It really is a magical place. I'm not kidding

you. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.