Scott Benner 4/11/22 Scott Benner 4/11/22

#661 Tell Me Something Good

Lori has had type 1 diabetes for over four decades.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 661 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast, we'll be speaking with Laurie, a type one for over four decades. She is when I'm just speaking in sentence fragments aren't I? Laurie has had type one diabetes for over 40 years. And she's here to share her story with us today. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Are you thinking to yourself, I'd like to do something nice today for people living with type one diabetes, but I also want to support the Juicebox Podcast, and I only have time to do one thing. Oh, if that's something you're thinking, you're in luck, because if you go to T one D exchange.org, forward slash juicebox. Join the registry, fill out the survey. This will take fewer than 10 minutes, and you will be done. And then you will have accomplished both of your goals. You will have helped people with type one diabetes and supported the Juicebox Podcast, you need to be a US resident who has type one or is the caregiver of someone with type one. Those are pretty much the rules T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by us med. If you're looking for a supplier for your diabetes supplies, US med is probably the way to go. Head over right now for your free benefits check us med.com forward slash juice box or Juicebox Podcast listeners can call 888-721-1514 get white glove treatment from a company who always provides 90 days worth of supplies, and fast free shipping us med

Lori 2:15
Morning everybody. I'm Laurie. And I've been a type one diabetic for 42 years. So I've written the path of the evolving diabetic world with technology from I feel like I was a dinosaur in the dinosaur age with diabetes. When I got diagnosed and it has progressed, it progressed kind of slowly for a while. And then all of a sudden, it's just I feel like the technology has just taken off and light speeds. So for all of us that suffer with a disease, that's a very good thing for all of us to take better charge and better control of it. And I'm really, really grateful, grateful that I've been diabetic for 42 years, and I have no side effects as of yet. And I don't see that I will ever have any because I'm pretty diligent about how I take care. And I thank you, Scott for doing what you do, because you're just a wealth of information for all of us. Thank you so. So that's when I found out about you, when we we've moved four times in three years. And so juggling around the United States, and my husband's been transferred, his company got bought out, and then he was trapped. They kept them but they moved them. So being juggling around the United States, that's been challenging because you, you know, you got to I feel like I'm my own doctor. And I don't necessarily always need a doctor to help me but trying to find somebody that can help you with just navigate. And when I ended up on the second move, I ended up with a doctor and the PA there. She was like you have incredible control. She said and you need to listen to this guy, because his daughter is a type one. And he goes about treating his diabetes with his daughter the way that you do. And I go really? And she goes yeah, she goes listen to him and check out these episodes and I was like, if I hadn't moved I probably would have never found out about you. That's amazing. I shouldn't say never, you know maybe somewhere down the line I would have found out about you but she that office that girl is just super intelligent and I like her actually better than the doctor and she's the PA.

Scott Benner 5:01
I thank you very much.

Lori 5:04
Yeah. So and they were the ones that got me on Dexcom. And so I didn't, I didn't understand why my doctor where we lived forever. Why she never recommended it. I had heard of you know those tools, but I was in good control, I thought you know that I've always been a decent control. So I just kind of, you know, how you just go along, you just go along and you go along, you go along, and then you get introduced to that, and you're like, your world changes. You know,

Scott Benner 5:39
Laurie, can I ask you a couple questions? Sure. First of all, do you have the kind of job where you're in meetings with other people and you lead the meetings?

Lori 5:50
Um, no, you're not. Okay.

Scott Benner 5:52
Did you really prepare for this today?

Lori 5:58
Yeah, I prepared.

Scott Benner 6:00
I'm gonna tell you why. Because, um, because I know, I've got you off balance here. And I don't mean to, I think right now, if I said, Everyone, this is Laurie. She's had diabetes for a while, I could take my headphones off and leave the room. And I'd have a good podcast when I came back. Because you're so you're, you have you really know your life with it. So I'm excited to pick through it. I really, I really am. I just, I, as you were talking, we're getting further away from some of the things I wanted to ask you. So I wanted to slow you down so that I could, so I can pick back through it. When you

Lori 6:32
start. I mean, I've been an I was a educator for a color company for 20 years. And so I was on stage and spoke in front of people for 20 years.

Scott Benner 6:43
Yeah, that's exactly how you feel while you're talking. You. I feel like honestly, like, you could hold my attention. And I could just probably kick back and, and close my eyes and listen. So so let me but let's not let's not we want to make sure that people who complain about me talking too much have something to complain about. Okay, so my first question was, when you began to introduce yourself, you You went directly to the advent of technology, and what a big deal it is to you. Can you give people some perspective? About what you've lived through? And why? Why you feel that way?

Lori 7:21
Oh, sure. Yeah. What do you want?

Scott Benner 7:25
Yeah. What is it about now? I've got you off balance. I'm sorry. Did you go ahead and talk? I just want to, you know, I want to know what you live through and why that experience made you pick that as the first thing to say when you started talking?

Lori 7:38
Oh, okay. Yeah, I will absolutely tell you, I'll tell you one. horrific story that happened to me. And it. I was really fortunate that it came out the way it came out. But when I was, you know, diagnosed and doing injections, it was that was a tough road. For me. It was easy, but it was unpredictable. And this story, I mean, that's why the Dexcom has changed in the insulin pump. The insulin pump changed my life first. And then the Dexcom changed my life second, so it was a game changer for me.

Scott Benner 8:20
So the unpredictability of not being able to see your blood sugars. And just I mean, you were doing regular and mph, or were you doing

Lori 8:28
Yes. Regular an MPH? Yes. And the mph? Do you want me to just talk?

Scott Benner 8:34
No, yeah, no, I don't let me stop you up yourself. I was just kind of teasing you a little bit that I felt like I felt like if I was like, and Laurie diabetes, right? I could just leave and come back in an hour. I put my headphones back on and you'd be finishing your story. That's not no, don't don't. I'm sorry. Don't inhibit yourself. But yeah, just go ahead, please.

Lori 8:53
Okay, so when I was diagnosed, basically, it was, I was losing tons of weight, and I'm a hairdresser. And so I work behind the chair. And when you work behind the chair, you know, you don't always eat when you eat you, you throw it down in about two minutes whenever you can throw a bike down. And so I just worked and I've always been really skinny and very athletic. And so I told my husband, I go, there's something wrong, I'm losing all this weight. I'm super tired. And we went he was in a bowling league. So we went to a Bowling Tournament with all of our friends, you know, to a different city and we went to dinner that night. And it was a Saturday evening and it was like you could put a hose of an outside hose like you would water your flowers with and just let it run constantly in down my throat because that's how much water I want it. Yeah. And our friend. I had never heard of diabetes. I didn't even know what the word was. And our friend, she worked in a doctor's office that she was at the Bowling Tournament with us, her and her husband. And she told my husband, she said, You need to get Laurie to the doctor as soon as possible because I think she's got diabetes. Wow. So I called her doctor's office because she worked in a primary care doctor office on Monday morning. And they got me in that day. And I went there, and I went straight to the hospital. And so, I thought I had, like a brain tumor or something. Because I was cutting hair, my vision was blurry, and I was losing all this weight. And I was like, I probably got cancer, you know, I mean, what is happening to me? And so I went into the hospital, and, you know, they gave me told me what I had to do. And I never looked at it. Like it was a terrible thing, because I didn't even really know what it was. I didn't even understand

Scott Benner 11:07
it. 19 and 1979. Laurie, is that about

Lori 11:10
119? A March of 1988. Yeah, okay. So I got married in October of 79. And in March, I was diagnosed I told my husband I go, you know, we never should have gotten married. We should have just together did you try to get I got married and I became a diabetic,

Scott Benner 11:27
get marrying him gave you diabetes.

Lori 11:30
I would always call them be like he was an insurance agent at the time at the Sears store. And I would call him and I'd be like, can you bring me home some of those chocolate covered peanuts at the candy counter. I would always bring those home for me and I would just like scarf them down. Well, that all came to a halt. You know,

Scott Benner 11:50
I'm loving this. I love that you went to a Bowling Tournament. I imagine most people listening don't know that. Bowling used to be such a big deal. That every Saturday on ABC there were bowling tournaments on Oh, I

Lori 12:04
know we used to watch them. My husband was an avid bowler he golfed in a bowling league with his guys on Friday nights every week. And so here we are. We're at this Bowling Tournament. And they're really those guys are all suit. We're just with them this last weekend. They were all they're all super funny.

Scott Benner 12:21
That's a major. So fun. Yeah, it was a big it was it was ours and people would sit and watch like it was nothing. Oh my gosh. Okay, I'm gonna have a good time here. Okay, so you are diagnosed because your friend kind of sees it. But you realize something's really wrong. I'm assuming, you know, thinking, Oh, I have cancer or tumor or something like that. And then they say diabetes to you. But at a time when like there's not a lot of real understanding about I mean, it's not understand I guess the the insulin lacked and the technology lack so much that you were just shooting insulin in the morning and then in the evening, is that pretty much it? Yeah, I

Lori 12:57
did mph in the morning with regular. And then I would I took regular at dinnertime. And then I took NPH at bedtime. Okay. And it was I mean, I was so diligent about everything. But you know, we didn't even have I don't even know that we had a computer back that I don't think we I don't think we even had a computer because I think when my son was born, that's when we he was like few years old. That's when we bought our first computer. So we didn't even have computer life to research anything or do anything but I'm a foodie. And food has never been important to me. I don't care about food. I could if I eat because I got to eat really to be honest with you. Do I enjoy a good meal? Yeah, I do. But I'm not one of these. I weigh the same as I did in high school. I mean, I've been the same weight forever. And so that was never like a concern for me. It was just like, Okay, how do I make this work where I can keep my blood sugar's steady. And then I have no glucose monitor and all even to prick your finger to test your blood sugar. And I finally got years later I got I think it was called Life scam. It was like a notebook. It was so ginormous. And I hauled that thing around in my purse to check my blood sugar all the time. So and I would check my blood sugar like eight to 10 times a day because I was so anal about where am I at what's happening, you know? But I opened a hair salon in 1983. What was actually November of 82 and an 83. You know, it was really the first full year and I was diabetic at that time. And I worked I worked Like a dog, you know, but I loved my job. I never felt like I was working ever, even with running a staff and doing all this stuff with your own business. I just loved, loved my work. And so with doing that, my husband, this is the story that I would like to share, because this is how technology has truly changed my life. And I've got a few stories like this because the mph, I was a ritual, I did the same thing. Every day. Same thing, every day, I would eat the same breakfast, I would pack the same lunch I never ate out. I always pack my food and pack my own food. I would work 12 hour days at the salon. So I would have to pack you know, my snack, my lunch, my dinner. And my husband came in and I cut his hair one night. And then he said okay, I'll see you at home. And now I had taken my regular eat my dinner and I always had like a granola bar or you know, something we had a white hand right next door. So if I ever ran out of food at least I had a white hand next door to our my hair salon. So I would send one of the assistants i Can you go over there and grab me this because I got to have some food and I would be cutting hair. And I could feel myself dipping down and I'm like, I need some food. And that's what I did not that was a hard thing is that okay? I'm taking this much insulin, I'm eating this kind of food. And you could you just a day is a day, you know, sometimes you got stressed sometimes you don't some so your body is always juggling around and you can't see what's going on. And on your insides. You know how much sugar is actually in that blood? I wish I could see all those little sugar things jumping around in there swiping. But anyway, so he came in, and I cut his hair. And he said, Okay, I'll see you at home. And it was like the end of the day. And so I packed everything up, I had to pack up from the salon and got my car. And we lived about 20 minutes from where my salon was. And I was about halfway home and I could feel myself dipping down and I thought I just gotta get home, I don't have that much further to go. And I was out of food. I didn't have sugar tablets, I didn't have nothing in my car. And that's like a rarity. But you know, I didn't expect anything to happen in the next 20 minutes. And

so I got literally I was maybe like, a block from our house. And we lived the road in the back of our house backyard. It was all fields behind there. But it the I had to make like a left turn on this road before I got to my street which was you know, the main the main back road. So I'm just gonna give it a name because it was 95th street. That was the main back road. And I was on the street over from our street on book road. And I had to make a left hand turn and I was at a stop sign. And I was all confused. And I could not figure out where I was. And this man at the stop sign. I turned and I was driving and this man was just laying on his horn. And he he saw I was like frayed you know, because I did not now I'm like almost I'm nearing my house. But I did not know I was nearing my house. That's how my brain was not functioning because I had such a low blood sugar. And he goes, You're drunk. I'm calling the police. And I was like, I go buddy, I am not drunk. I mean, I noticed say that much right? And I just kept driving because I was scared. And I wanted to get away from him. So I kept driving. And I went past my house, the backyard of my house. I drove right past it because I did not really know where I was. And I just kept driving and I thought okay, now I kind of know where I am. And I just kept driving and I drove into you I don't know if you remember but we had handy Andes back then. Hardware stores or big like Menards or Home Depot now or whatever. They were Handy Andy so I drove into the parking lot there and the police, the police were there.

Scott Benner 19:55
Oh, waiting for you. Waiting. Yeah, I had I had to look Whitehead, I didn't know what that was. I think these are more local things. So that's the convenience store. Right? Yeah.

Lori 20:05
It's like a 711. You know? Yeah. And so I pull into the parking lot. And there's this elderly couple coming out. And I rolled my window down. And I said, You know what, please, can you go get me some sugar. I'm a type one diabetic, I'm having a really low blood sugar. And I have to get some sugar in my body. And they were so nice. They turned around and went in. And I guess handy, Andy might say, had a candy bar. And so they went and got me a candy bar and brought it out. And the police came up to me, because they're thinking I'm drunk, because this guy said I was drunk. And they came up to me. And I said, You know what, I'm having a low blood sugar. I said, I was confused. I could not, I did not know where I was. And so I sat there and ate this chocolate bar, which is going to send my blood sugar high. And I didn't have a blood sugar testing machine. But I knew that's what it was going to do. And I just sat there, and my husband now we didn't have cell phones, either. My husband was wondering, like, where is she? Like, what happened to her. She was supposed to leave after me. And she's not home. And so I sat there until my blood sugar, I felt like normal, the police said, We're gonna sit here with you until you get where you feel like you're normal. And those elderly people wouldn't even let me pay him for the chocolate bar. They were so nice. And so anyway, the police followed me home and tell I got into my driveway, and I was able to walk into the house. And that was, that's what having not having a, you know, Dexcom or a contour next meter or, you know, one touch Ultra meter or whatever meter you want to call it. That's what not having that stuff did. And I mean, it's happened to me more than once there. It happened to me at night when I was driving home from work. And it was winter, because we lived in the Midwest at that time. And it was winter. And I was all confused in my neighborhood just driving around, and I didn't have a cell phone. And I'm like, Oh my God, where am I? The bees? I gotta get home

Scott Benner 22:20
to these episodes. Come on quickly, or? Yes. They Yeah, I don't know where?

Lori 22:25
Yep, they would come on very quickly, out of nowhere. And so. And another time my husband traveled, and my son and I were home alone, and he was in grade school. He was little but my husband always taught him if something happens with your mom at night, you call 911. And so my son, you know, he was little so he was sleeping in bed with me, right? And I, I woke up and I could feel my blood sugar going and I didn't have anything by my bed, which is unusual, because but I wasn't I was not smart enough that about at all. You know, I just I'm trying to figure it out really kind of on my own. Yeah. And so he was in bed with me. And I told him I said, Go get your Go get me a juice downstairs, orange juice or, and Steve out my husband. He always kept Coca Cola because you know, that brings your sugar up really quick. And so my son rent went down and brought me up Coca Cola, but he called 911. When he went downstairs in the kitchen, he called 911. And so the paramedics came and he went and answered the door, and he's in his pajamas. He's so cute. He was this little kid, you know, and they came in, and by then I was getting back to normal because the Coca Cola had taken effect. But I would have episodes, like at two three in the morning. This was before I was on an insulin pump to three in the morning, I would do the same thing I'd take my MPH at night, I'd have a bowl of Cheerios, and I would sit up and do my paperwork for the salon go to bed like around midnight, and I would think I would be fine because I took my MPH usually around 930 or 10 o'clock and eat my bowl of cereal and because I worked evenings so I didn't get home from work a lot of times till 930 And so then by the time I got situated at my house and did my insulin and ate my bowl cereal and did my paperwork, you know, it'd be midnight I go to bed. And my husband would be like I would he would have my head and he would be trying to get me to drink a juice. And when you're that because he I would do things in my sleep I guess where he knew and I woke him up. And so and that would happen probably a couple times. The year and so that's why he taught her son, that that's what he had to do because he traveled. And so it was my son and I at home alone, you know,

Scott Benner 25:09
were you ever were you ever able to make adjustments to the insulin to stop it from happening? Or how did they How did you address it just with the food and hoping

Lori 25:17
Yeah, just the food and hoping because my doctors you know, I would tell them and they, they, they didn't tell me to lower the dose you know, and looking back like I should have lowered the dose myself, you know, but I was just a good student. I did what everybody told me and I just bite it by the rules and thought well this is the way life is with diabetes and injections

Scott Benner 25:45
how? Tell me how old you are in 1980 2222 Wow, you're 62 now

Lori 25:53
yeah 6420 42 years Wow, that's crazy.

Scott Benner 25:58
Yeah, I I mean, listen, it's the it's the theme right? Nobody feels confident making adjustments on their own they just take for granted that this is what it is and then you know they have some burden they have to live with now and and that's it and if a doctor doesn't help them with it, they never change it. How what was the next most meaningful shift? You're gonna say getting an insulin pump probably when did that happen?

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Lori 29:01
while just not even getting an insulin pump by getting a glucose monitor where you could test your blood sugar's Okay, that was a game changer because then I I checked my blood sugars like you know, every while I was working. So I would always check my blood sugars like in the morning when I got up and then I would eat breakfast and if I wasn't going into work until a little bit later that day. Then I would check it again you know before I left for work because then it was like lunchtime, you know? So then I was going to eat lunch so I would have to know what it is but that and then I started then I started altering my insulin myself. Good when I could test my blood sugar's did that help it help out? It helped and my doctor told me he goes you know what you are in such great control but when they're working on an insulin Pump. And when it comes out, you need to get it. And he was talking to me about an insulin pump pry for two years before they even came out with that he goes, this is what's happening. And this is what you need to do when they come out with it. That's crazy. And I was like rally and he goes, Yes, I go. I think I do a pretty good job this way. He goes, nope, you'll do a better job this way.

Scott Benner 30:18
How old do you think you were when you got the pump?

Lori 30:20
I was it was back. My son was in college. So I think he graduated in 2003. So I would probably guess I think it was around 2005. Maybe

Scott Benner 30:32
yes. You 25 years without it.

Lori 30:36
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. At what

Scott Benner 30:38
point did you switch over to a faster acting insulin? Do you remember? Like, I mean, like Humalog went on to next

Lori 30:45
human log came along. I think that came along when I went on the insulin pump. Really? Okay. I think that's when I went to unhuman log, if I recall,

Scott Benner 30:57
what you're saying you did regular an MPH for 25 years.

Lori 31:01
I did regular an MPH for like a long, long time. Okay, maybe he changed me. Before that because I was on human log. Then I had to go on Nova log. And now I'm back on human log again, in my insulin pump, but I'm, you know, researching these other insolence now, too, because I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to talk to you that I have back in the city with the PA that told me about you. So I'm really happy because I'm gonna have a conversation. Well, listen,

Scott Benner 31:33
I just did a little googling Eli Lilly began producing began production of the insulin product human blog at its new bulk manufacturing facility in Carolina, Puerto Rico in mid 2005. Your memory is pretty good on that. So Oh, yeah. Exists prior to that.

Lori 31:52
Yeah. So then I was on regular until the insulin pump. So yeah. And that, and then the insulin pump. You know, that was another big learning curve for me, because you still had to test your blood sugar. But then, and I was on med tronics insulin pump. And so I was, I mean, I got that thing working like a smoothie operating machine. And I got rid of my lows in the middle of the night never happened. Well, they were they were gone. And my husband, you know, he was so relieved, because he didn't have to worry about me when he wasn't home. You know, he always worried about me driving.

Scott Benner 32:41
How did it affect your son? Did he? Is he kind of like a caregiver person now? Is he is he paranoid? How does it affect them grown up? Or do you think?

Lori 32:50
No, I don't think he's paranoid because he knows how disciplined I am. You know, and I would always just tell him, I said, You know what, this is the way this disease is. And when you do injections, you can't control what the insulin is going to do in your body all the time. You just can't control it. And so I said, That's my mom has to, you know, I always have to travel with food. And we would, I mean, when we, him and I, I'm a big rollerblader I've rollerbladed for over 40 years. So, I mean, I'm a hockey person. So like, I was a hockey cheerleader. So I've always been that person on to things on your feet that move and work athletically. And so my son when he was two, I took them to the ice rink, because I'm like, You're gonna play hockey. And so once he got, you know, decent on ice skates, then I'm like, Okay, we're going to rollerblades and our buddy. So we went to rollerblades and we would rollerblade together and I would always have to have a backpack because I didn't have a fanny pack them. You mean I didn't even know about a fanny pack them but I always had to carry a juice box because I would wrote we'd rollerblade long and hard and, you know, at this point, I wasn't on an insulin pump. I was still on injections, you know. So it, it was like you couldn't suspend or lower or Temp Basal or whatever, you couldn't do any of that. And so I always have to carry a juice box or you no sugar with me all the time, because of that exercise level. So he was always aware, you know what I mean? So because I would have to pack that backpack and he was never really afraid, but he could tell. He always knew when I was dipping down Have you always tell

Scott Benner 34:50
Have you spoken to him as an adult about growing up like that?

Lori 34:54
No, I never really I never really have spoken to him about that. Okay, My husband tells stories, you know, because to all of his guy friends, you know, when we get together, you know, is he's, he's, they're like, Yeah, we heard the stories about you driving the car and they thought you were drunk. And so my husband has told his friends about what he's gone through with those kinds of stories, you know, cuz it was always a worry for him. But hey, man,

Scott Benner 35:23
did you have any issues growing up that way? Like through your 20s 30s? Like, did it have any impacts on you, socially, or psychologically, or anything like that? You feel pretty good, right?

Lori 35:33
I just I just took the bull by the horn and did it and never looked back. I never worried about it. I never. I just, I'm a disciplined personality. And so when I know I gotta do something. I do it. I don't, you know, I don't look at it. Like, oh, I'm just gonna fly by the seat of my pants. Even though I was flying by the seat of my pants. I didn't know I was flying by the seat of my pants. I was just doing what I thought I was supposed to do. But it it wasn't always a perfect world. You know? And whilst I still isn't always a perfect world, as you know,

Scott Benner 36:15
no, of course, I don't even know what I'm getting at. I just, you seem I mean, it's obvious you're from a different generation is how it feels to me. Like, you know, like you grew up in a time of you're born in the 50s. I imagine, right? Yeah, yeah. And 57. Yeah, you grew up in a you grew up at a time where there was no real expectation for like, constant happiness or contentment, or something like that, like you were just you were living and staying alive and doing the things you were supposed to do.

Lori 36:41
Yeah, I mean, that's I was I, while my father passed away, have a massive heart attack when I was 11. Oh, my God. He was 46 years old. And I saw my mom. She was just devastated. We had just moved to a new house on the lake and lived in Lake and, you know, the Midwest and my dad, that's always what he wanted. We moved there in October, and he passed away the night before Christmas. That year. And after that, I always I always knew that I had to be able to just take care of myself because I saw my mom have to just, I mean, she did. She wasn't working. My dad worked, because that's what happened back then. Right? Your dad worked and you're supported the family. You had one car, you lived in a simple little house and you live life and you went to church every Sunday. And you know, that's what you did. So after that experience, I mean, that was, that was a game changer for me. I was in sixth grade. And after that, you know what I was always a go. I was always independent. My mom said she goes, You're stubborn and independent, always. But I was like a go getter. And I always did what I was supposed to do, because I was like, I am not going to tip over have a massive heart attack. I'm gonna be athletic, I'm gonna eat good. I'm gonna do all this, you know. So, I think that, you know, being raised with my mom and that situation. I got a job as soon as I could work, because, you know, we didn't have money because we lost my dad. My mom never worked. And then she went to work like in a dime store in the town, you know, because she didn't have education. Yeah, other than high school. And so when you grow up in those kind of times, it shapes what you become in the future, right? 100%

Scott Benner 38:50
Yeah, I can't imagine not. Wow, that's a that's a probably a pretty common story for then. Did your dad smoke?

Lori 38:59
He was a smoker. Everybody was a smoker. That's why Yeah, every my mom's smoke, my dad's smoke, my smoke. My uncle smoked. Everybody smoked back then. Right. And that was just the way

Scott Benner 39:11
have you identified any type one or other autoimmune issues in your family line?

Lori 39:16
Now, nobody, that's what's bizarre. My mom, it was hypoglycemic for a number of years, and then it just all of a sudden went away. But she followed her diet. And I followed her diet that she's supposed to follow, being, you know, she's and so that's the only link that we can find. There's, there's nobody else

Scott Benner 39:40
nobody that anybody knows about, I guess. Also that my

Lori 39:44
cousin, his daughter, she was 22 and in college, and she found out she's a twin, and she became type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 39:51
How long ago was that?

Lori 39:54
Oh boy, she's in her. She's got to be in her early You 30s Now probably interesting. So but they but my cousin called me and he goes, Oh my god, Emily was just diagnosed we she came home for Christmas break and she was not feeling good. And we took her to the doctor and they checked her and she's type one. Now Claire, her twin nothing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:20
Well, I mean, that's not I mean, it's not surprising, I guess I just I don't know I got all wrapped up in your in your life and growing up in that time. That's really just a simple, a simpler way to live. You know.

Lori 40:34
I mean, literally, that's the way everybody should be living nowadays. I mean, I grew up I worked at the NW i Water skied every day, we were at the beach all the time. And, you know, my friends, like they would have a lake house, you know, up in the woods somewhere and we get in a car when we were 16. And we could drive and we go up to that lake house and hang out there and go to the outhouse. I mean, they didn't even have a running bath toilet, we go the outhouse. And you know, and so it was, I mean it, big bonfires in the fields and high schools. And you know, when you're in high school with all your friends, and you know, you're outdoors, we snowmobile, we've snowmobile, to the hockey rink, and then cheer for the game that was going to be there, you know, beyond that night, because we were cheerleaders, me and my friends. And it's, it's just, you know, it was just different.

Scott Benner 41:29
I didn't know there were cheerleaders on skates, you've taught me that. I do have a question. I if this seems inappropriate to you, don't answer me. Just tell me to move on. Okay. But 16 years old bonfire kids? What was the level of Hanky Panky where you kissing? Drinking? Smoking? What what did you do in that time?

Lori 41:48
Well, there was always a keg. Okay. There was always a keg in the field. So we call them keggers. And so you know, but you'd have all the athletes there. You know, I mean, we're I was a cheerleader. You're not supposed to do that, or you can get kicked off the team, but everybody did it. So we always, you know, we go out in the drive for miles out in the country because my friends, their parents had farms and fields and we get a CAGR gone. Okay, everybody after the game, We're Gone To The Gager. You know,

Scott Benner 42:21
there's no kid like your parents didn't know where you were. They didn't know. I mean, they

Lori 42:25
knew that I'm going over to so and so's and they just okay, you know, okay. And

Scott Benner 42:33
smoke cigarettes. Good. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Lori 42:36
So this one, this is a funny story. But my girlfriend, they had a lake house up in the woods. That's when I was telling you about what the outhouse and. And it was the waters just, I mean, all the water where I lived was pristine and crystal clear. And we would go up there and hang out. But our other high school friend, his parents had a resort that wasn't far from there. And so there were two guys and high school brothers that their parents are on this resort and every spring, they would have a weekend long cager at the resort. And so we would go up and stay at my girlfriend's cabin, and then we drive over to the CAGR because it was like started, people would start arriving Friday night, and they go home on Sunday. And everybody would just take a bath and brush their teeth in the lake because it was clean and nobody cared. And you know, you'd go the bathroom in the woods and nobody cared. And it was sounds, it was like caveman style of partying fun. But you know, those are all just great memories that we you know, there it it was just a great time and place to grow up and live and experience life and I'm a water person. We've, my husband and I have lived on the water. While we got after I opened my salon. I did very well and we bought a lake house. And so we traveled to the lake house every weekend. Because I had my own business, I could do that. And so we had that for 15 years. And then we sold our house that was in town. And we moved up north and bought a house on the water where we lived full time and then we got transferred three you know we got transferred all these times. So it's just you know, yeah, it's it's just kind of weird how life changes do you need to look so anyway, now I'm by the ocean but so it's still water.

Scott Benner 44:46
Do you need to you need to look at your blood sugar. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm

Lori 44:49
fine. If you know your Dexcom goes off at 80 So

Scott Benner 44:53
yours is the Navy. Okay, yeah, gotcha. And now you're on one of the shores you're on. You're on a.

Lori 44:58
Yeah, Lana? Sure. Yeah, so that's that's good. Yeah. Went from the lake to the shore to the desert to the shore. Like, gosh, you've

Scott Benner 45:07
been? You've been all over the place, though. Yeah. You held on to your Midwestern accent, so you're good. Oh,

Lori 45:15
yeah. So anyway, that technology has the insulin pump changed my life in a huge, huge way. And then, two years ago, is when I found out about Dexcom. And that is changed my life in a big way. And then I found you. So and I just, it just confirmed with me that, you know, I've been pretty doing pretty damn good. Raising myself kind of in the dark on my own with my diabetes, because I've been bold with insulin, my diabetic life. And, and I didn't, you know, I would just do it. I just do it. And, you know,

Scott Benner 45:56
no, I think it's amazing that you were able to to do that. I mean, like you said, just, and looking back, just just getting the meter and just being able to get enough data to start making reasonable decisions about things. It's yeah, now now look at it like, right. Oops, sorry. I'm saying sorry. Now, you've got this, how did you sort of the Dexcom was given was told to you by a doctor's office?

Lori 46:23
Correct? Yeah. Because I'm in you know, I'm in the city where they make it. So um, so the, the doctors here are all about it, because it's local. So, anyway, they, the doctor mentioned it to me, and then I went in with the PA, so she could train me on it. And so when I went in with PA, she trained and they got me, they told me I needed to go on a tandem pump, My God, why? And they go, because they will communicate with each other. And you like to have such tight control that I think this pump can give you tighter control. And so I switched. I went on the Dexcom first, and then I went on the tandem pump. And so with doing that, it it literally like learning tandem was a whole nother way of life on that insulin pump compared to Medtronic. And I actually liked Medtronic better, he did like the Medtronic better, I did like it better. So I went off of the tandem and went back to the Medtronic because I could not get my sugars to buttoned down on the tandem correctly to do it. And so, so my doctor, she said, Okay, so now I'm in a new state, right, I was leaving this state. And she said, I think you should give tandem another try down the road. And so I went to the other state. And I ended up through Facebook group, because I talked about the tandem and the issues I was having with it. And that I was just gonna go back on a Medtronic, I didn't know what to do in a diabetic group. And there was a tandem representative somehow found out and he called me. And I explained to him what I was how I had it. I will say I'm, I don't try to criticize people. But I've been a trainer, you know, for years, because I had a staff and worked for a color company and daughter, but she came to educate me on the tandem pump. And she said, Well, we're gonna learn and do this together. And I was like, we're gonna learn and do this to get her a

Scott Benner 48:56
little worried. She didn't understand that already. While she didn't,

Lori 48:59
it was obvious. And so when I went on it, I was struggling and struggling and struggling. And I just said, Forget it. I'm going back until I can get somebody that knows how to train you on this machine. And I called tandem on a regular basis trying to make it happen. So when I got to the other state, I decided that I was going to try it again. And so I gave it a try, and I've been on it ever since. And I had a really, really the guy that I talked to he hooked me up with one of the top trainers and we did it all over the phone.

Scott Benner 49:36
Good. So are you using it more like you know,

Lori 49:41
I do use Control IQ the one thing that I that is, you know, because I don't eat white food. I just I don't care about it. It doesn't matter to me. Wow. Are

Scott Benner 49:57
you saying stuff like that? Yeah, I

Lori 49:59
don't need I haven't had a piece of pizza in I don't even know how many years. And so it's like, I just don't eat that stuff. But I used to. And I used to do it on the Medtronic, you know, with, you could do the Temp Basal settings, and I would do it for like, hours, you know, because pizza breaks down in hours, right? So you got to change your gotta change your insulin ratio, you know, to accommodate it. And, and this one, you got to turn the control IQ off to make that happen. So, you know, even with protein sometimes, so it's got the two hour window where you can do the extended Bolus, then I, you know, I go back in maybe sometimes, like, after an hour and a half, and I set another one. Okay, to extend out again. Yeah. So that's kind of the, I think that there's, if they had a diabetic talking to them, when they design an insulin pump, I think they would get a lot more information, how to design it to make it work the way diabetics want it to work.

Scott Benner 51:07
Well, what do you what do you wish the control IQ would do that it doesn't do?

Lori 51:11
Well, I wish that you could just automatically have an extended, you could have that extended time where you wouldn't have to turn it off. You could just go in and do what if you needed four hours or six hours or eight hours, what if you get sick? You know,

Scott Benner 51:29
so you can't explain to it that the food you've just eaten has a longer impact than the algorithms ready for you can't Yeah, you can't tell it. This is listen, this is pizza, we're going to be doing this for the next five hours. Right?

Lori 51:42
I got you, right, you got to turn the control IQ on go back to regular pumping, go back to just doing like what my Medtronic pump did, you know, and my doctor told me, she goes, Well then do that. If that's what you need to do, then just do that. But I make it all work. You know how it works now, and I just don't want to be pushing all these buttons all the time and fussing around with it all the time. And you know what I mean?

Scott Benner 52:05
Yeah, you would like it to work without you having to be involved so much. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, I have a question that I can uniquely ask you, because of your age, do you have concerns about as you age, the management of diabetes? Do you ever think about that? Yes. What what's, what's the thing that sticks in your heads most?

Lori 52:29
Well, I mean, you know, as I age in the management, you know, I've had it for 42 years, and it really doesn't matter how you I mean, it does matter, I shouldn't say it doesn't matter, because it totally does matter. But if you're so diligent about your care for all these years, you know, when you hit have, let's say, I make it another 20 years, that puts me at 84. You know, what? It? What are the insides of my body going to be like, you know, what, are my eyes gonna be like, what are my kidneys gonna be like, you know, I'm not going to be running a marathon at 84 I doubt you know, or rollerblading, like, you know, around the country. So, you know, so I just, you know, that's what always concerns me, because I don't ever, I hope I go like my father before that, before I ever have any side effect from diabetes. I would rather just go ding, and tip me over. And don't let me have any side effects. You know. So the side effects there. I mean, I did hair for a living trust me you talk to you get clients that are diabetic. And I was like a nutritionist for all my clients. They loved coming to me because I always talked about food and how I cook and recipes and what I do, and they're like, Oh my God, I've never met anybody that takes such good care of themselves. And it shows. And you are you do so great. And I go I love. I'm diligent, you know, and I love food. And I love good food. I love healthy food. I love fresh fruit. I don't like processed foods. So. So that's just the way I've operated. Forever. Yeah, you know,

Scott Benner 54:17
I always think about like dexterity and cognitive stuff. Like what happens when you Oh, slow down a little better. You can't use your fingers as finely those sorts of things.

Lori 54:27
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the whole you know, cuz dementia is way more prevalent diabetics, you know, so I'm always like, Oh, God, don't put me there. I don't want that. That's for sure. My husband always goes Oh, it's Laurie in the kitchen, because there's always something that happens in the kitchen cooking. You know, it's just stupid stuff. And he always makes jokes you know about me, because I'm blind and he's like Laurie the blonde. She's in the kitchen again. You know?

Scott Benner 54:58
I just I just I I don't know, I know it's a long way off, and I'll be a long way dead. But I don't like thinking of art. And, you know, as an older person now not sure about how much insulin to give herself or to make a mistake, because she thinks she's already or didn't do it already. Yeah, you know that that bothers me.

Lori 55:17
Yeah, but you know, by the time Arden is older, it's going to be a way different playing field for diabetic. Yeah, I hope so. That's gonna be Oh, my God. I mean, when you look at 42 years, and you look at just since 2005, when I got on the insulin pump. And you look at from 2005 to now. Yeah, I mean, that is 16 years. And look at what spend

Scott Benner 55:42
on. It's amazing. The LEAP is really amazing. It's

Lori 55:47
I mean, so you put Arden What is she 15 or 1617. Now? Oh, 17. So, you put 15 years on that? You know, she's going to be what? 32? Yeah, yeah, no kidding. And so you look at at 32 how it could be different for?

Scott Benner 56:05
I hope, so I hope I get to see it. I really do want to see what happens next.

Lori 56:10
Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I spoke to diabetics, my doctors in the state where we live forever on the water. She was just like, you know, what, I, I want you to talk to the diabetic support groups, because you are your, I would bring her like my loaves of bread that I would make, you know, with almond flour. And you know, I'd make a cinnamon bread and, and a white bread and an Italian bread. And I would bring them to my doctor and I go, you should try these because they're really, really good. And they're really healthy for you. And she's like, Oh my God, you make the best food. And so I would go speak at these diabetic groups. And I would bring like my food, like my bread so that because it was in the morning, and they could have like coffee and bread in the morning. And it's all blood sugar controlled bread, you know, so they just loved me, they loved me speaking to them about how I take care of myself, because I could only talk from my standpoint. And they were like, God, I wish I could just be more like you and I go Why can't you? Yeah, so they go, you don't need to wish about it. You just need to do it.

Scott Benner 57:21
Yeah, I try that all the time. Like, I'm not doing anything particularly special. I don't have any great, you know, abilities that you don't have. I'm just making some pretty specific decisions at the right time. You know, so,

Lori 57:35
I mean, that's all it's a balancing act. Yeah, you know, that's all it is, you're balancing every minute of the day. It it. I don't care what it is, you know, you got when I would stand behind the chair and work and I would be like, Okay, I gotta have a juice box, I'd be like, Excuse me, I go on the back room, I'd grab a juice box, I'd come out, I would drink it down in front of my client, they go yo, can I go, you should know me by now. I'm fine. And so you know, it was just always balancing, you know, it was always balancing. But I taught you know, for a hair color company also for 20 years. And I would I traveled all over I lived in a really big city in the Midwest and big city. And so, I mean, you could travel two hours and still be in a suburb, that city. So I traveled all over and then I had to fly and travel the United States. So, you know, until I was on an insulin pump, you know, you if I traveled around the United States, and I would you know fly in the night before teach the class the next day and fly out that night. So it was like an overnight but you would I always would go through the airport and I would bring my juice boxes with me and I would be like, you know, you gotta let me through with this because they were always laying now you can't take that or whatever. And I was like, No, I'm a diabetic do Okay, so I'm gonna get on the plane and if I have a low blood sugar, then you guys are gonna have to take care of me instead of me taking care of myself. So they would always let me through with it all but I had to travel with all that gear, you know, and manage it all and then you're teaching a class and when you're teaching a class if I felt myself dipping down and this was before insulin pump time, right? So you feel yourself dipping down I always had a juice box and all my you know, color containers that I have to bring into the salons and to train their staff and you know, so I would always just pull it out and I would say you know let's take a break for a couple minutes pull it out drink it down and everybody come back reconvene and away we go again, you know, so simple is is just you just have to balance it and navigate it however you have to navigate it because no diabetic is like no two are alike. I mean it's different bodies different key insights. So it's just a way of how you manage and get along and navigate. But I drove from one state back here to the state that I'm in when we got transferred. A year ago, we got transferred, you know, every year. So in June of 2020, I was in a different state than I am now. But I would drive back to this state that I'm in because our son lives, like two hours from here. And so I would stop and stay up my friends here, but it's a 10 hour drive. So I would get in the car, and I would listen to you for the whole 10 hours. And I was like, That is like the best thing. The Time just flies.

Scott Benner 1:00:44
So good. I had been dying to ask you about that. How do you 60 years old? Like, I know, somebody, you know, tells you about the podcast, but I mean, had you ever used your podcast player before that?

Lori 1:00:57
Oh, yeah, I listened to podcast before them. But I never. I didn't even think about searching for a diabetic podcast. I mean, it just never came to I mean, I knew about Facebook groups, but I didn't know about podcasts. Right, that there was stuff out there for podcasts, you know, so yeah, so once I found that I just found, you know, like, I would I play in the kitchen when I'm cooking I listened to you.

Scott Benner 1:01:28
Is is it helping? Is it like, I mean, cuz you're

Lori 1:01:31
well, it just what it what you've done a lot for me is it's confirmed a lot of things that I do. Okay. It's been confirmation of a lot of things that I do, and, and just getting better at dialing it in even more, you know,

Scott Benner 1:01:52
so even though you're, even though you're doing those things, do you have a did you have a level of uneasiness that you were breaking a rule or something like that,

Lori 1:02:00
or no, no, just not? Not at all? No, I've never been I've never had an uneasiness about breaking rules, if it's gonna help me, yeah, never. That's a good, that's a good way to break the rules all the time. If like, my husband goes, God, you he was always even with the injections. He's like, you know, you gotta watch it. Because we'd have my whole family up at our lake house, the 25 of us and the way it works, so you got to feed 25 people, right. And so a couple was assigned kitchen duty every day. So my cousins, my aunts and uncles, my mom, you know, my sister, my brother were I mean, my mom had 11 siblings. So we all grew up going to the lake together, all my cousins and all the her siblings and spouses, and we'd all have cottages. And so I wanted to do that when I got married. I wanted to lake house, so I could continue that whole, you know, tradition. And so anyway, we would have my cousins and everybody up there. And so everybody would cook and we had a menu. We did a menu every year, a menu. And so it wasn't always like the food that I could really eat because it's just it's carbohydrates. Let's face it, right? carbohydrates. But I would just eat my cereal in the morning because they always have cereal, because of kids, all the little kids that we had, you know, love cereal and have my cereal and at lunchtime, you know, because back then, it's like, I really didn't. I didn't know because I was just doing this injection that injection. But when I was at the lake, and I got my blood sugar machine and I could check my blood sugar's then it was way better because then I could eat the stuff. Then I was eating carbohydrates. I was still skinny. But I was eating carbohydrates. And but you know, I was waterskiing. I was swimming we were to being I was always cleaning in my house because you got 25 people there, but we would assign cleaning duties, you'll laugh. So we had food duty. So you were in the kitchen one day, that week. And that was it, you're done cooking. And then all the guys always got it. They go golfing in the morning, they get ice for all the coolers, they come back and take care of everybody had their own cooler. So you came back to carry your own cooler. We had a treat table. So there was a treat table that was like a big coffee table that we had sitting with all the treats because everybody would bake and bring treats and then we'd bake during the week. And all the little kids you should have watched um, they were so funny. They go over to the treat table and they try and sneak a treat without asking the parent and the grandmas would catch them and they'd be like, you know, Darren, did you? Did you ask your mom, you gotta go ask your mom. And he be like, okay, you know, little kids. So we had all that kind of fun. Would up there and I would eat it. But I would I did pretty darn good. But there were times at night because we'd stay up until late all of us cousins, and we, you know, have a few beverages and we'd go to bed and get up the next morning. But there were a few times where in the middle of the night I went low. Probably because I ate, you know, my regular had worn off by them, you know, from dinner. But I don't know, my husband goes, it always happens when we have this vacation. Because your schedule is different, you're up late, you're you sleep in a little bit later in the morning activity with the different you take extra insulin because you're eating different and you do that. And so he always he had a couple of times, while a couple of times throughout, we did it for 15 years. So before we sold it, but we had a couple of times, where in the middle of the night he was or like in the morning when I would sleep in even he would come up and check on me. And he found me where I dipped down even in the morning. So he just come up there and give me juice and you know, then my mom comes up and my sister comes up and they all there you wake up and they're all staring at you. And you're like geez, what did you have to call the troops and forgot? Leave me alone. Ya know? So anyway, that's that's the way life was, you know, before anything came around like a mortar now.

Scott Benner 1:06:34
That's excellent. Did we talk about everything that you were hoping to talk about? Or do I leave something out?

Lori 1:06:40
Um, the one thing that I will say is that that I'm hoping you get your person on your podcast and that I know when it's gonna happen is that three years ago, yeah, three years ago before we got transferred the first time I was seeing like a naturopathic doctor and she I did blood you know, I do my diabetic bloodwork. And she goes Laurie your thyroids, like Lo, she goes, I think you should be on thyroid medicine. And I go, what? She goes, Do you feel oh, can I go? You know what, I've always felt fine. I've always had tons of energy. And she goes, Well, I'm going to call your primary care because I think you should be on thyroid medication. And I'm like, Really, my endocrinologist I always did bloodwork and every year you know they check all that stuff, and I never knew nothing. So I was like borderline low. Well then I went on the thyroid medicine and then I went to my endo and talk to her about it. And she goes you know what, if you feel fine, don't take it. So I didn't take quick taken and I go you know what? I don't.

Scott Benner 1:07:50
Okay, hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism.

Lori 1:07:53
I don't even know what it was at the time. But I found out now those hypo hypo okay, I was. So for I moved. And then when I went and saw the Endo, and I went and saw a hormone doctor because people told me go see a hormone doctor, they know how to regulate thyroid. So I went saw him and he started me on can I say the? Okay, Armour Thyroid and like a high dose of it. He goes, your thyroid is really low. And I don't really. And so he's the one who started me back on the medicine again. Okay. And so then I talked to my endo about it. And she goes, Well, just, you know, keep going to see him and do it. So then when I moved again, and got to the next endocrinologist, she's like, boy, you're on a lot. And I quote, I know, I don't understand it. And so every two months since I started seeing her last November she's done bloodwork for my thyroid, and my dose has changed every two months. And I still I don't even know

Scott Benner 1:09:06
what's the number What's your TSH at you know?

Lori 1:09:10
I would have to dig out my test results. Yeah, but so anyway, now I'm going to see a deal here because they do thyroid and I'm going to go bring my I'm gonna bring all my labs with from the previous state and these last laps that I had done. Yeah, and because my doctor back there in the other state, I was supposed to do a video visit with her but I had to cancel because we were flying out to back home and I couldn't do it. I told the nurse you know that I needed her to look at it and all she's got to do is just put a message in my chart right? And so she they just called me like yesterday, I think it was and said the doctor said to keep your dose this I'm okay. And I'm like, Okay,

Scott Benner 1:10:02
well, I think Dr. BENITO would say that she, she would treat people over a two TSH, and I think you're the goal was to get it as low as you possibly can with stability without causing hyper symptoms. So,

Lori 1:10:16
yeah, because I, I don't mean to interrupt you, but I saw a primary care doctor here trying to get hoping to get this bloodwork stuff figured out. And he said, Well, this is weird, because your last blood work. Looks like you're on the edge of hyper. And this is hypo he goes, it's like you're sitting in between.

Scott Benner 1:10:41
Yeah, I mean, if you're hyper than the medications too much, and you'd have Oh, have you checked? Have you felt any different taking it?

Lori 1:10:52
Um, no, I have to say that I really don't feel any different. Right? I have, I'll tell you what's happening. That has not happened. You know, like I, I got, when I first started taking it, I was having such like hot flashes. And I went through, you know, the change at age 50. And it was a piece of cake. I never had an issue. And I feel like I'm hot. I'm living in a state where the climate is beautiful all the time. And in a city and I, I should not be sweating the previous state. I should have been sweating. And I don't sweat where I get dripping sweat. But I get like this heatwave in my body. And that goes away. And it's not hot

Scott Benner 1:11:40
right now. Right? It could well, your thyroid controls your body temperature. I know. How about your maps? Is your hair growing better? How about your nails? Anything? Any? Yeah,

Lori 1:11:51
I mean, my nails are kind of the same. I will say that, you know, I noticed like my eyebrows got different, thicker, thinner, thinner. But now they're now they're kind of like they're back to normal and just a little thinner on the ends of them. I had thick eyebrows.

Scott Benner 1:12:10
Laurie Can I tell you one thing? I got my eyebrows threaded recently. I went with our don't laugh at me. I went with Arden. She gets her hers threaded. And my family makes fun of my eyebrows all the time because they curl down on the outside. And they always tell me it looks like my eyebrows are frowning. So I looked at the lady and I was like, Can you fix these? And my daughter's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm gonna try this. So it hurt.

Lori 1:12:37
Oh, yeah, it does. I've had mine threaded before. And I said I would never do it again. Because she totally botched my eyebrows. And I was like, and I'm in the hair world. Yeah. And I was like, No, you didn't, I'm gonna be in charge of my brows.

Scott Benner 1:12:52
Nice job. So we went that I somehow I go with Arden for her threading. And so the next time she went, I didn't think anything of it. And then she went back at another time. And I was like, I looked at the woman. I was like, Does this need to touch up? And she's like, Yeah, sit down. Okay,

Lori 1:13:07
well, it's easier as you do it, you know, because then you don't have the bulk of the brows you get where it's just maintaining the brows.

Scott Benner 1:13:14
She's unrelenting. She pulls them out. And it's like, it feels like it's like you're pulling out piano wires, you know? Gosh,

Lori 1:13:22
oh, my God is so funny. I mean, we did waxing at my salon, you know, forever. And so people would get their eyebrows waxed. And I was like, Oh, God, that would hurt when you rip that hair out. Like

Scott Benner 1:13:37
I said, I think I'm gonna keep doing it. So. But anyway,

Lori 1:13:44
threading is probably better than waxing.

Scott Benner 1:13:46
Well, I'm not getting my eyebrows waxed, I have to draw a line somewhere. Anyway,

Lori 1:13:52
well that you could do at home yourself. You just put the wax on, put the strip on and you just press it down and you tear it off and you're done.

Scott Benner 1:14:00
I would I would question myself if I was doing but you know, you started talking about your thyroid by saying something about the doctor but you never asked me the question. It was a great story. But you know,

Lori 1:14:10
yeah, but I know you have talked about art and having a thyroid issue and your wife having a thyroid issue. And you're and you finally got this doctor that has helped them and I thought I need I need somebody that kind of know cuz I've been bouncing around for like three years with this stupid thyroid thing and it's like, do I even really need to do anything or do I not need it? Do I need to do any I think I don't

Scott Benner 1:14:34
think you should. I don't think it's not a big deal. I mean to get that hormone like level right? It's the problem is finding a doctor who's really thoughtful and good at it. And I I agree. Yeah, I got lucky find and Addy. I took advice from a friend of mine who's been a guest on the podcast Vicki and she said you can't trust the end. Oh, to do this. You have to find somebody who really do This is great at this. And I asked another I asked a bunch of doctors about it and I got a bunch of recommendations and I found the one and it and thank God because she's really been terrific. She's actually just helped my son and my daughter with they're checking their guts for to make sure like the like the the bacteria in their gut is, is healthy. Yeah. And they both need some help. So we just got the results back last night. We have an appointment next week with Addy and she's gonna go through the protocol for the next couple of months to help them get balanced. And she thinks that Arden's acne and joint pain might go away after we do this.

Lori 1:15:43
I think it will, I'll just tell you that I, well, the diet, the fight the person, I'm gonna see about the thyroid, they do the God they it's a naturopathic like she's a deal, but they got naturopathic doctors that work there. So they do all this natural, you know, stuff to try and help your gut get regular and all this. I, when we lived in the same state two years ago, I Mike, I was I've been a rollerblader for years, you know, on my hip is kind of bothered me for 10 years. And I was like, I have this pain down the side of my leg. And I went and joined a walking group and I was power walking. And then I was having a hard time and I had this my gut hurt. I was like, my groin hurt. And I was like, What is going on. And so I quit the walking group, and it all kind of went away. But I changed. I never have been a big fan of gluten anyway. But I went on, I went and saw this, that hormone doctor that I saw, there was a nutritionist in there and she's a natural like nutritionist person. And she told me, she goes your gut, you gotta get your gut, healthy. She didn't do tests. But she said this, I told her the way I ate, and she goes, You got to get some good bacteria in there. She said you could get Kim Chi or something like that. So I started making my own homemade kimchi. Because that's the way I am. You know, I'd rather make it myself. I know what's in it. And I can, you know, eat it. And so I did that for months, like months, and my whole I like, everything, everything just kind of subsided and went away. And then we were still living in the same state. And in April. Now, I had gone rollerblading again. And in April, I got up and I could not walk, okay, my leg what I needed crutches. And I was like, Oh, God, this is not good. My hip was dying. And we moved. That's April. And we moved in June, the beginning of June. And I was getting trigger point injections in my muscles. And that was helping me and it helped me make the move. And then after we moved, I we had stairs in this house. We were in a ranch in the other state. And we had stairs in this house. And I could I got where I could hardly walk the stairs. And I ended up having a torn took them from April to December to find out I had a labrum tear in my hip. And they think that's so anyway, this was interesting is that I thought I was going to come back to San Diego. I said where I'm at, I could take California to get it fixed. Because they told me in the other state that there weren't doctors there that did that. I was like, what? How can you live in a city? It's a big city where you don't have a doctor that does labrum tears. And so anyway, I converse with the doctor back where I'm living now. And

that doctor said, Well, you got to go to you got to talk to this doctor because I just do hips. And I'm like God, does anybody do like more than one thing anymore? And so I talked to that gal and she told me she said we don't even do them, repair them on women your age because there's only a 50% success rate. Okay, and I was like, why? And she goes, yeah, she said, I You just got to go to a Hip, hip guy and get a hip replacement. That's what we do. I won't even do it. She said And so then I went back to the other state and talk to the other doctor there. And he did do labrum tear repairs, but he told me the same thing. So I got kind of two of the same opinions. And he said, the labrum tear. I just did two labrum tear repairs eight months ago. And they're both back here getting a hip replacement because it didn't work. So he said, I can do it on you save your hip joint, but you got arthritis in your hip. I go, it's 40 years, rollerblading, probably. And so I just did the full out hip replacement, June 10. And we moved July 2. And I stayed back in that state because I couldn't leave and with three weeks into the surgery, and go to a house where I mean, we weren't even going to have our stuff. So I wasn't even going to have a bed. My husband slept on a blow up bed in the house that we got. And so anyway, now I'm in hip replacement recovery, but the doctor told me my first question was, will I be able to rollerblade again? And he said, Absolutely not. And I go, what? He goes, No, you can't do it. You need to sell them. And I was like, Are you kidding me? That sucks. I was so I was like picturing myself rollerblading the boardwalk, you know? Yeah. Oh, wow. That's life, you know, so I'll find another athletic activity to

Scott Benner 1:21:37
do. Yeah. Well, Laurie, I've had a really wonderful time talking to you. I have to go spend the rest of my day cooking. It's not my day at the beach house. But my son's college, because of COVID is having a terrible time staffing. And because of that, there are long waits for food, and my wife and I are going to cook up a bunch of different things and take them to him so that he can eat in his room a little better. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, so this is the rest of my day. Now. We're gonna be down there. Like, it's gonna look like we're preparing because we're gonna have to bring enough errors, roommates and everything else. So it's, yeah, I'm gonna be making some Yeah, you're

Lori 1:22:15
gonna be a cafeteria and your kitchen. That seems like but anyway, if you can get that thyroid person on, that would be awesome. Because I would totally love to hear.

Scott Benner 1:22:25
Oh, well, she's been one. Was that okay? Yeah, hold on a second. Let me get you the episode number. Is that all you wondered? Hold on a second. I like talking to you. Because you asked the question that never asked it. Hold on a second. I'll find it. She is. Episode 413. thyroid disease explained. Okay, there you go. She's really good till you'll love it.

Lori 1:22:53
Yeah, I'll listen to her. So I'm going next week to see my new my new person now in the

Scott Benner 1:23:01
Yeah, fourth move. Listen to her before you go to the appointment.

Lori 1:23:06
Yeah, well, I listen to her today. Great.

Scott Benner 1:23:09
All right. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you doing this. Well, I

Lori 1:23:12
appreciate what you do. I mean, you do a lot for everybody. And I commend you for the care you give your daughter because your daughter is really, really lucky to have you. You know, that's very sweet. I mean, she's really, really lucky. Most of us got to figure it out on our own, you know, and it's great to have a community.

Scott Benner 1:23:33
Yeah, no, I'm glad. I'm glad that what we're doing here at home that's helping other people to

Lori 1:23:38
Yeah, makes a difference. You know, a big, big difference. If I would have had something like this when I was diagnosed, I would be like, geez, you know, way better.

Scott Benner 1:23:47
I really do see that. My mom is sick right now. And I we particularly kind of rough day yesterday. And at the end of the day, I realized I hadn't been interacting much with the people on Facebook. And I went in there and I was kind of melancholy. I was like, you know, just like I said, Tell me something good. And the hundreds of replies that came back. Were people just sharing good things in their life. I thought, wow, look at this amazing community that, that this whole thing together, you know, people were there. Some of them didn't realize that I was upset. They were just like, here's something great that happened to me today. And they've told me something about their kids or their life or got a new job or something just never stopped. And you know, when you translate that over to talking about diabetes, it's amazing. Someone can go on there and ask a question about, you know, a Pre-Bolus or something like that. And then right. Oh,

Lori 1:24:39
yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's just awesome. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you something good. That happened yesterday. It wasn't my anniversary of 42 years to my husband. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:24:49
happy anniversary. Yeah. And you just you just saved yourself. Because now now I can call this episode tell me something good. Because I was gonna call it Handy Andy.

You just got you just saved yourself at the very end.

Lori 1:25:12
Yeah, he's a great guy to ask for anybody better.

Scott Benner 1:25:15
So wonderful. My best to both of you. That's really wonderful.

Lori 1:25:19
Yep. All right. Thanks a lot, Scott. It's been great. And I wish you and Arden and your family and your son well at college, and, you know,

Scott Benner 1:25:28
I really have a lot to me.

Lori 1:25:30
Hope he always has a full belly.

Scott Benner 1:25:34
He's at least going through this week.

Lori 1:25:36
They're eating machines of that age. Oh my god, you

Scott Benner 1:25:39
can tell how angry they are. You get like these angry texts with pictures of lions in the cafeteria. Like, I can't even get in here. And he's like, even if I got in, it would take 45 minutes to get to the food. I gotta get to my next class. And he's getting irritated. So we're gonna we're gonna help him out a little bit.

Lori 1:25:53
Yeah. My son Rodney. Just a quick little note, my son when he was in college, he had a credit card for emergencies. And I would always pay the bill, right? And I would be like, What is this like? $300 on here for food. He played roller hockey. Because he played hockey all his years growing up, and he still plays hockey. He actually plays three nights a week in a men's league, but and I'd be what? And he goes, Mom, do you have any idea how hungry? I am? Like, I'm hungry. And I go, but are you buying for the whole floor? Or the house? Or what? Cuz it's like $300 He goes, No, he goes, You know, we play hockey. We go out, we eat and I go, Yeah, you must be buying for everybody at the table. But they're hungry boys. They eat lots and lots of food and you gotta supply for the friends. Like, oh my God,

Scott Benner 1:26:54
that's gonna be it. I'm gonna go get a couple of pounds of chicken breasts and smoke them all. And we're gonna make a bunch of rice and a bunch of other stuff and just take them so Alright, well, thank you. Okay, well once I

Lori 1:27:05
have fun on the kitchen, thank you

Scott Benner 1:27:16
a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juice box. And I'd also like to thank us Med and remind you to go to us med.com Ford slash juice box or call 887211514 To get your free benefits check. It should not be difficult to get your diabetes supplies. It also shouldn't be a headache. Check out us med. Hey, do me a favor. If you're listening in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music or anywhere like that, hit subscribe or follow in the app that you're currently listening in will take you just two seconds, but it will help the show immensely. Subscribe and follow in a podcast or audio apps. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#660 Defining Diabetes: Black Holes

Scott and Jenny Smith define diabetes terms

Scott and Jenny Smith define diabetes terms In this Defining Diabetes episode, Scott and Jenny explain Black Holes.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 660 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Over the years on the podcast, I've come up with terms that, you know, don't exist in diabetes management. One thing I can think of off the top my head is trust that what you know will happen will happen. It's to me it's a diabetes truism. It's a tool. And some of these terms give you another way to think about an idea. Once in a while on the defining diabetes series, we get off of words that you're like Bolus, I know Bolus, that's a medical word. And we do one like today. Today's term that Jenny and I will help define is black hole. Don't worry, it's all going to make sense soon. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, and are a US resident, or are the caregiver of a type one, and R US resident, please head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Take the survey, you'll be helping people with type one diabetes, and supporting the show.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med. US med is the online diabetes supplier that you've been looking for. They have a dedicated 800 number for Juicebox Podcast listeners. And you can call today to get your free benefits check 888721151 For or go to us med.com forward slash juicebox us med wants to bring you better service and better care than you're accustomed to. For today, I think I'd like to do a couple of like my terms, like dictate the pace and black hole, I want to start there. And then maybe we have time, we can definitely

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:12
your terms. They're not the I don't use but actually my boys talk about black hole, but they're very much referring to black holes in the outer space.

Scott Benner 2:23
Well, so I mean, it's at this point, it's been a number of years. And so I don't even know if you remember the first time I said it. I kind of remember the first time I thought it and it blew my mind a little bit when I realized that a Temp Basal off was creating a void in the future. Right. And that good term for it? Yeah, right, like so. So I guess I guess we're talking, we'll just keep going. The way I see it, and I'm sure the way you see it, too, is that if you're using insulin, if you have diabetes, your blood sugar, as soon as you introduce any carbs, or you know, body functions that push up blood sugar, your blood sugar starts to go up, and it wants to continue going up. It is only stopped by the introduction of manmade insulin. And in my mind, that's a I know, people have probably heard me talk about all kinds of different ways. But you know, you could think of it as the the offensive and defensive line meeting in a football game, you could think of it is, you know, what is that called mimes when they pretend they're up against the wall. They put their hands up right being inside of like the box, yes, I just think of it as equal force from both sides. So the blood sugar is trying to come up. And you need to meet it with enough force to stop it from coming up. But to stop it and hold it at a level that you desire. So some people that might be 80. And for some people that might be 120, doesn't matter. But we've talked about it over and over again, that basil when set very properly. Hold your Joe at that spot, wherever it is, you know. And so I know this, these things might seem disconnected for a minute, but I think they'll it'll come together in a second as we're talking. But I think of that as okay, I know that it exists. If I have that, right. That's one thing I can count on. And then I start thinking about the timing of insulin. And you know, you said all the time as anybody who's paying attention, right, you get a Pre-Bolus your meal because insulin doesn't start working right away. Right? And then you're always very quick to like come by, if I say something about that and say Don't forget basil takes time to start working too. Yeah, right. So if you're on a pump, and you just shut your basil off at noon, you're not going to see the impacts of that at noon. So you could do that right now. You could be super steady or whatever your number is. Shut your basil off and your blood sugar is not going to immediately start going up because beta has been going in slowly over the time. And it takes time for it to begin working. So if your pump is giving you Basal insulin, I mean, how does it break down? And in some pumps, how frequently do you get it in an Omnipod, for example

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:15
Omnipod, you get a pulse? Well, it depends on what the Basal rate is at, right? Each pulse from a pod is delivered as a point 05 pulse of, of insulin. So depending on what your Basal may be, if it's only point one per hour, you're only getting 2.05 boluses, essentially, pulses over an hour's time. The higher the Basal rate, the higher the pulses so incrementally that adjusts over the course of an hour. Based on how many pulses you should get to add up to your Basal in an hour.

Scott Benner 5:51
So if your Basal is a unit an hour, you're going to get 20 pulses an hour of the point oh five,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:58
and divide that into an hour, which is 60 minutes, it could give you exactly how many minutes between pulses. Exactly.

Scott Benner 6:04
Okay. So that, that that the rest of that math, I don't care about the idea that it's going to happen. It's going to wait, it's going to happen. It's going to wait, it's gonna happen. Each one of those little pulses, lives in its own timeline inside of your body. Yes, yes. Ah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:20
absolutely. It's like starting a new if you imagine the timeline, that's a really good example. You know, I mean, even grade schoolers, like my child who's in third grade already knows a timeline or a line of, you know, something in math to break it down. Yeah. So if you say, Okay, over this timeline, I'm getting a dose here, I'm getting a dose here, I'm getting a dose here. And then each of those has its own. If you imagine like a bell curve of action, right, got its own timeframe of start and finish each pulse does.

Scott Benner 6:52
Yep. So if you've been on a Basal drip for hour, I mean, you don't have to be on it for about an hour for them all to be active. And then you shut it off, it would take I know this is audio, but the first point oh, five at the top of the hour, lives its life goes through its bell curve and in dissipates. The one that happens after that starts a little later than that ends a little later than that. But if you just shut your Basal off, eventually, all of those little pulses would live their lives and be gone endpoint and have an endpoint. And when that happens, then there's a void. There is a black hole where there is no longer any gravity pulling down on your blood sugar or pushing down on your blood sugar. I know the gravity doesn't exactly work like that. But it's not the point in my head. It does Jenny. So when I'm thinking about insulin, this is how it works. So, you know, that's where you, you know, you can you hear me say, Well, if you're low now, but not too low, what if you shut your Basal off for half an hour, maybe an hour from now that 70 That's been holding, but not going down might drift up to I don't know a little bit more, right. And you put the Basal back on and you kind of catch it. It's, um, I'm Hope I'm being clear, because in my mind, it's crystal clear.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:15
It's, well, you're bringing up a really good point, because I think as people get more, they want to become more aggressive, not an I use aggressive, not as a bad word, but they want to get things in target more often. Right? So we learn how to manipulate and micromanage with insulin. But the biggest piece that you do have to remember is that the timeline of insulin isn't rapid. Rapid is I think one of the sets a horrible name for our insulin today, it certainly works a lot faster than ages ago, thankfully, but it is not a stop it now, it has a now effect on what could happen. Right? You have to remove it with enough time to build up in circulation more or in circulation less to impact the time in the future that you want more or less. So if you are low right now. Do not suspend your insulin.

Scott Benner 9:23
It's not gonna help you need sugar. It's not gonna work fast enough to stop a like a falling blood sugar. Right? My and I appreciate you pointing that out. Because my my thought there was if you're 70 and your hours beyond your meal, insulin, and you know you're not getting any lower, but you really wish you were at five and you don't want to take in carbs. Taking your basil away for 30 minutes. Could be enough. Yeah, but it's not going to also happen in that moment. Like you can't shut the basil off at noon and expect the 70 to turn into 85 you might see a slow drift up over the next hour. Right That's my guess. So right over an hour, and you also those of you who hear this and are like, I'm going to try this one day. Also remember, you can't be shutting your basil off forever. Like if you have to shut your basil off for three hours, you have bigger problems, then a small little nudge might help. And and you want to fix that problem. You also don't want to be without insulin for that long, just No, not a good plan.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:24
We usually say no, no suspends, or no disconnections from insulin for or Basal insulin right. Even if you're on injections, and you haven't taken Bolus is all day but you did take your Basal you're not without insulin. So that's a different scenario, right? But completely disconnected from all insulin. We don't want it longer than two hours,

Scott Benner 10:44
right, basically. And that would be in a situation where you're talking about, you know, you have too much to begin with. So you're trying to kind of horse trade, which I'll talk about in a half a second. As soon as I answer Arden's tax play, this hasn't happened on the podcast in a while, because the COVID, where I talked about Hardin, about her food. So Arden is in a situation now where she is in a Chinese restaurant. And she says she is having sesame chicken and white rice. But Arden is also on a steroid pack right now. So we stuff we have her insulin jacked up to work on this. The problem is, is that we're using the algorithms the algorithm is set at a 200% increase right now all the powers jacked up to 200% of its settings. So if she puts in the right carbs for this, it's going to double her meal insulin and probably I'm guessing killer in about a half an hour. So we're gonna,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:42
we're gonna, probably not she'd she'd do something, she would do something about

Scott Benner 11:45
it, but it would try to get her. So I'm gonna tell. So what I'm basically doing is I'm telling her to take, I'm telling her to tell it half the carbs of what I think it is. Because it's going to double it. So I think that will make a Bolus that is so

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:00
you really only need with the steroids. You only really need more basil. It doesn't sound like Bolus does need to be what's increased. It's more just a Basal level, she definitely needs a heck of a lot more.

Scott Benner 12:10
Absolutely crazy. She's on the steroid pack. Her Basal is basically at four units an hour for the last couple of days up from 1.1. But no change in her meal ratio was necessary at all. Wow. So I mean, I don't know. Like, I'm just going with what works at this point, you know, right. So hold on one second. So I've told her that get her back to this. Okay. All right. Now I got to try to find I'm getting too old to skip around in thoughts, Jenny, hold on a second. What the hell were we saying before before she texted

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:43
talking about insulin, and it's action time.

Scott Benner 12:48
Yeah, don't turn it off. Because we were talking

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:51
about the timeframe to not turn it off for which was about like, no more than two hours is typically what we

Scott Benner 12:57
write. And I was gonna bring up that if you're using an omni pod specifically, it's always Temp Basal decrease, because you can set an end time to those and it kind of turns back on turns back on. Whereas if you suspend the insulin and you do not remember to turn it back on, your insulin is not coming back on. But my bigger point here was going to be that if you think about, if you think about this, the way we're talking about it, you can flip it around and think about the other way. So I'm just going to kind of go through it again. If you shut your insulin off your Basal insulin off on your pump at noon, and you leave it off for an hour, sometime about an hour or a second, she's saying 19 year, let's just dial that back a little bit.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:44
I'm always, I'm always interested in I have a lot a lot. I have a lot of teens that I work with as well. And I am always amazed at the amount of insulin that they take for meal pie. Like I oh my gosh, that's like 80 to 90% of my total daily insulin. Right there in a meal. Oh my goodness,

Scott Benner 14:09
she's about to have white rice and sesame chicken in a in a Chinese restaurant. So I told her to make it 16 I gotta be honest with you. I don't know what's too much. Maybe I don't know what's about to happen. But we'll see. And she's got my car. So not only am I worried about her personal safety, but I'm worried about my card. So so we're trying to be

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:33
very clear. Text me when you leave the restaurant. Yeah. Oh, gosh.

Scott Benner 14:36
Okay, so anyway, so turn it off at noon. It creates, you know, it takes a while for all those timelines of those little pulses to finish up. And now at some point in the future, probably around an hour, you're gonna start seeing a drift up. That's a that's a ninja level move. But what you're really doing is you're manipulating the insulin to be where you Wanted end to end and, and sometimes to not be where you don't want it. So if you so you probably people have probably heard me talk about even using Temp Basal increases during carby your meals and and that's a good way to like up your basil so that an hour from now you have more resistance, you could do that to meet a fat rise from French fries, you know, you could do that I see Arden's fat rise from fries, and a burger hits her in about 90 minutes after she starts eating. So there's a world where 30 minutes after she starts eating, I can jack or basil up to try to get ahead of the fat rise. Just as simply you can also kind of just, you could you could flip it around and do it the other way, right? Like you could take it away to create a void to create a black hole. You could also add it to give yourself a I don't know, I don't know enough about space. What's something that sucks you when it gets really powerful? I have no idea. But but you can change the power in the future by making decisions. Now, super important to say that I think everything you do right now with insulin is always for later whether it's a decrease an increase a regular Bolus, no matter what you do, it's for later, right.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 16:21
Absolutely. And that's I talked about that a lot with people in terms of adjustment. They might say, well, everything is lovely after midnight, in terms of like basil alone, right? Everything is lovely, as long as I land at midnight where I want to. But last night, you know I or and or I've been floating around at 170 overnight, but it's really nice and stable. Well, good. It's stable, because your basil isn't wrong in this time period. Right? Where it's wrong is in the hours before this, which is impacting this time. And this basil is holding it where whatever happened before. left off. Yeah, so let's address this time period. Right. But the same thing for exercise. Again, I work with a lot of people around exercise and how to manage and manipulate and it's don't adjust right now as you're going to set foot on the football field.

Scott Benner 17:15
Right? Yeah, well, and the other ways to think about it, because really, this is just about striking someone in their mind in a way to think about it. You, you can create stability over 24 hours, by having all of these decisions, right? And people are like, Oh, that's too much to do. But it's not really you're talking about having your basil set well, understanding, you know, if there are certain times of day where your basil needs to be stronger or weaker, knowing when that is starting that Basal program prior to when that happens. But I'll try to make sense of it a different way. If you're on a football team. And you're on the offensive line, you have five guys on your offensive line, but I rush six, someone's not getting blocked, right, and you're getting sacked. So the way to think about that is if you have, I don't know 20 carbs of insulin in your meal. But you somehow Bolus for 30, you've sent more rushers than you have blockers, correct, right. The other way to think of it is if you bring in a tight end block, and that guy's only rushing for, there's no way he's probably getting to you because now you're you got six guys blocking four guys, it's all about putting the right amount of resistance on the other side of the attack. And in truth, both sides are attacking, right, the insulin is trying to pull that, that sugar out of your blood. And the carbs or your body function is trying really hard to push your blood sugar up. So this is usually the time excuse me, when I'm on stage and talking about this, I tell people just to take their hands, put them out flat, put your palms together and push together. And you just need to push so that your left hand can overpower your right hand and your right hand can overpower your left hand. And when you do that, you have stability. You take those palms that are probably in the prayer position right now and you turn them sideways. And that's a flatline. So the thing pushing from the top can't overwhelm the thing pushing from the bottom to thing pushing from the bottom can't overwhelm the thing pushing from the top and your insulin. And your insulin need is now in this just fight that neither of them can win. And that's what that's what a flatline on a graph is it's just, it's the need of insulin, those carbs, and the resistance of that insulin, that insulin, both dialed in, in a way where neither of them can win the fight. And if you have too much insulin, you're going to get low. And if you have too many carbs, you're gonna get high and honestly I don't think there's too many carbs I think of it is not nothing solid. Right? And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:51
that's a good point to make because quite honestly, we were too carb centric. And if you really understand food in general Yes, we're taking insulin to work with carbohydrate. Otherwise it wouldn't be called an insulin to carb ratio, right? But anytime there is more food there, and more food usually means more of those other macronutrients to things like proteins and fats. And so learning, learning by watching your trends around things can teach you how to create enough for later, when those other things may be impacting. And you want to keep control.

Scott Benner 20:32
Yeah, you have to meet the need, like I've, I think, throughout the years of making the podcast, I'm most happy with that statement meet the need. Because the need may be lower, at times, it may be higher at times. But if you don't meet it with the right amount of insulin, you're gonna lose one way or the other higher? Well, it's just but somehow in my mind tying together, the idea of the timing of the insulin, and how to how you can make it not exist in the future, gives you the power to make it exist, excuse me, gives you the power to make it exist even more in the future, if you want it to correct. But what ends up happening to most people, is they don't get themselves into this mindset, that everything I'm doing now with insulin is actually happening later. And then they're always I don't know, it's like, you're, it's like you're chasing the flash through time. And you're always ending here always ending up where he was 15 minutes ago trying to fix the problem. Right? Right, you need to be ahead of it. And, and I think that, to be honest, that's gonna transition really well into the next defining episode. So I want to make sure that you don't have anything else you'd like to add to this. I know, this is not like a standard diabetes term, or idea. It's just an idea that makes my mind right about using insulin?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:52
Well, I think it's a good point to bring up especially considering the way that people have started to learn more about manipulating their use of insulin. And in terms of what we now have access to technology wise, many of you know the algorithm driven systems utilize this, this watch, right, this predictive nature. And so that also works with how insulin is going to be put into the picture now based on what it's predicting to happen. Coming into the next hour, two hours into the future. Yeah. So it's, it's definitely something to, to know. And understand.

Scott Benner 22:38
See, I love you, because I didn't know what you were about to say. And then what I had planned to say was, I've learned so much about this watching, Arden's algorithm work. Yes. Right. And so yes, you and I are just people and the people listening are just people, our computing powers, not quite as high as a, as an algorithm and algorithm, right. So I'm not, I'm not asking you in your mind to track you know, 20 different timelines of point oh, five boluses, just to understand that, that's how it happens that they kind of feather and layer on top of each other. And then in a regular situation, without algorithm, you could use that information to make some good decisions. But where I really learned to believe in it, is watching the algorithm watching it, you know, I tell the algorithm, hey, her blood sugar requires 1.1 unit events on our for for basil. And it goes, Okay, that's my starting point. But there are times when it decides what you know, it looks and it says, Well, what I think is going to happen in the future, an hour from now indicates to me that if we change her Basil 2.7, right now, we'll be able to keep stability off in the future. And you watch that algorithm, give insulin, take it away in the form of a basil over and over and over again. And even really good settings. Like even if you have rock solid settings, and your day hasn't been full of too many variables, you know, exercise or tough foods, the balls for whatever, you still see a rise and fall of basil throughout the day, because this thing's making these automated changes. And in some algorithms, also bolusing it'll make its decisions. And then it looks up and goes, Oh, this didn't work. You know, like we need we need more and it'll Bolus or Ooh, Jesus didn't work, you're going to get low, and it'll rip away your basil for long periods of time to try to stop below in the future. And it's not always successful. But it's successful so frequently. It just really made me believe that I know it's the best we can do when we're injecting to inject once your Basal insulin during the day and you get what you get you manage around it or even with a pump or you set your your Basal rate at something certain or try to make some adjustments to get ahead of problems that you see happen every day at a certain time. But it's just not it's not enough. Right? Yeah. No, it's a great start. It's an amazing tool, but it is not everything that you're going to require. And so the rest of that has to be you. And, you know, seeing these trends and being able to make adjustments to it to hopefully stay ahead of problems, so that you're not always chasing a problem. Like, if you keep showing up 15 minutes after the bank robber leaves, you're never gonna catch them, you know, you got to you got to be inside waiting for him. And anyway, in my mind, understanding how to create a black hole in the future with insulin is, is the first big step and understanding how to manipulate it in a number of different ways. So guys, this is where the episode ended. But then Jenny, and I kept talking about it, it was gonna be a private conversation, but I thought you might want to hear it. So I'm going to include it right after this word from us, but

I cannot be the only one of us who is incredibly frustrated with the company that sends the diabetes supplies to our house. I just can't be I mean, if the experience that I've had so far and all these years is even a little reminiscent of what you're going through, then you may be looking for something better. You may be looking for us Med, a company who prides themselves on white glove service, they want you to get better service and better care than you're accustomed to. US med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, and the number one rated distributor in Dexcom. Customer service surveys. With over 1 million diabetes customers served since 1996. US bed carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM. They always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast free shipping. US med accepts Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers. Come on. Give them a call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check. Find out why they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau. Wouldn't you like some white glove service? I know I would. The phone number again is 888-721-1514. And that number is just for Juicebox Podcast listeners. Or you can go directly to us med comm forward slash juicebox. And get that free benefits check there. At that link. You can also see reviews for us met better service, better care. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at Juicebox Podcast comm to us met and all the sponsors

Wow, that's so heavy. And then Arden texted twice in between it was like it really is like a time travel movie. It's it's like, you know, you're trying to understand you're like Wait was that in the future? The past you get kind of like twisted up. It's not easy, but the people who end up understanding it really understand it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:34
Right. You know, and that's the that's the that's the Kenny facts maybe not necessarily exactly that level. But that's the person who is really looking and understanding especially the algorithm driven pumps. I don't know how many people I look at their data initially on talking to them. And they're like, I don't know, I thought it was gonna be all so much better. But I still have this big standard deviation. It's all roller coaster. And I was like, Yeah, because your pump is taking away this much insulin. And then it's like jamming you full of extra insulin because it took it away. And now you're sky high riding right? And then it's got to take it away again, because now you're drifting. I'm like, we got to stop, stop the deficit.

Scott Benner 29:16
Everybody. Listen, we're still recording, I think maybe this gets to stay in. You still have to Pre-Bolus it's, you know, and I know that already. But it's interesting that people are seeing it right away and thinking, oh, gosh, the thing, the machine will just do it. Like, in your point earlier, the insulin doesn't work rapidly enough for you not to Pre-Bolus your meals, you're always going to get behind and then the thing is going to come along and try its hardest to stop it. Eventually it's going to stop because the food's gonna digest and then you're gonna get low afterwards. And you know, and then it's not much different. It's everything is I don't know it's real. vibey you just have to, you gotta find it. You know, it's like dancing. It's like Dancing with a woman. Like you just got to close your eyes and just, you know, you gotta go with it. Yeah, you sit there and try to figure it out all the time, because you just look like that weird guy in the middle of the floor trying to do the right thing. Her hips, move your hips move. Yeah, that's it, you know. So together, yeah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:17
And, you know, when you said, you know, watching an algorithm work, I think that's a really good way, if you have the chance to kind of pay attention and watch, it's a really good way to see a lot of people are also, you know, I don't love my active insulin time that my algorithm is set for, I think it's way too long. We had it set for like, two or two and a half hours in our conventional pump. Well, your explanation, or you know what, we talked about all those little pulses. In algorithm driven systems, those little pulses are now seen by the algorithm as new starting places. Yeah, it's kind of a long term finish line, right? Yeah. So it needs the length, the time period to be able to predict into. So

Scott Benner 31:03
I think that's why the first day of on the pod five, they say that very first pot the first time you put it on, it's collecting data at that point. Now, it doesn't happen at the beginning of every new pod, like every time you switch it. It's the very first time you put that algorithm on it needs that first pod to figure things out. Yeah, it's all fascinating. Okay. All right, hold on. I'm all worried No, I'm warm.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:30
I'm glad you're warm.

Scott Benner 31:31
Cool, you're in. You're up there in Wisconsin. You're lucky you're alive. You're gonna be living inside of Han Solo is TomTom to stay alive at some point up there.

First, a huge thanks to Jenny Smith. As always, for being on the show and sharing her knowledge with us. Jenny works at Integrated diabetes comm if you want to hire her, you can also want to thank us med the newest sponsor of the Juicebox Podcast and remind you to go to us med.com Ford slash juicebox. To get your free benefits check find out if US med is right for you. Or you can call them at 888721151 for better service, better care. Get your diabetes supplies from us med

All right, I thought that was a fun episode. Let me just remind you that anything you need about the podcast can be found at Juicebox Podcast COMM The diabetes pro tips and these defining diabetes, as well as other series of the podcasts are also there. You can actually find defining diabetes, and diabetes pro tip at diabetes pro tip comm as well. Or you could just look in your podcast player and search for them. Just if you're in this podcast player, please follow or subscribe to the show. It's really good for the show and and that way you'll get the newest episodes as they come out. Plus, it makes me feel nice and I mean if you're trying to do something simple and nice for me, subscribing in a podcast player would be pretty cool. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#659 Burnout

Erika is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 659 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Everybody, Erica Forsythe is back. Erica, of course is the licensed marriage and family therapist who's been on the show a whole bunch of times in a ton of different episodes. She also has had type one diabetes for well over three decades. And today, she came on this is something I guess, she came on to talk about burnout a little bit. And then I, I mean, she talked about it, she said everything she wanted to say but I completely took the conversation in a direction that was more about I don't know my, I guess my fascination with people's minds how they're built, fortitude versus struggle, that kind of stuff. I think it's really interesting. But I talked way more than I meant to there's something about Erica, that makes me very comfortable. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. If you wait for the end of the episode, Eric and I announce some things that we're going to do in the future together.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod dash, a tubeless insulin pump that you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of Learn more at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Today's episode of the podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It's little, it's accurate. It fits in your pocket. And it gives you those numbers those sweet sweet numbers. Super, super accurate, sweet, sweet numbers. Contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Erica, the timing of this recording is interesting, because not too long ago, I recorded with Jenny about does Jenny burnout and being 1,000,000%? Honest, I didn't know what Jenny was going to say. Like I didn't like send Jenny a you know, an email and say, Hey, have you ever experienced burnout we should talk about on the podcast I just said let's talk about burnout. And she said okay, when she said that she hasn't ever really experienced that. I'm like, Okay, well, this is her truth. And let's talk about it. Well, Erica, then I got a number of messages from people who were not thrilled that I didn't talk to somebody who had been through birth. And I was like, Well, I've got Erica on the schedule coming up. So let's get to that instead. So, I mean, you understand, you know, the podcasts like I don't, I'm not setting things up to happen in a certain way. I just I had the conversation. Jenny, you know, is a specific person, and she's pretty great at managing herself. And on top of that is, uh, I don't know, she's an active person she eats well, like, you know what I mean? Like, maybe her diabetes is just easier to manage for some reason. Or maybe it's just specific to her wiring in her brain. Like, who knows, you know, but I do want to talk about the other side of it. And I'm excited that you're here. So welcome back.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:31
Yes. Well, thank you. I'm happy to be here. Yes. Talk about the burnout.

Scott Benner 3:35
So let's just start on a personal level, right? You've had diabetes forever and a half, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:41
Yes. 30 plus years? Actually, that's

Scott Benner 3:45
great. Because so is Jenny. So it's easy for me to remember that you're both over 30 years. Yes. I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:49
think we're similar in our diagnosis. Yes. Am

Scott Benner 3:52
I crazy? So, alright, have you ever experienced it and and more, more specifically, when you hear the word burnout? What does it make you think of?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:04
I think yes. So I will speak to my own experience. But I think with burnout, I think of it can be either a short period of time, or you know, in really sad and tragic cases, it can be forever. And burnout is comes from, you're so exhausted, you're so overwhelmed. You're so frustrated and stressed by all of the management of diabetes, and I'm not just talking about the daily blood sugar, you know, checking whether it's finger picking CGM or the injections that the pump sites but it's also you know, the doctor's appointments, the blood draws the eye appointments. And so you could be burnout could look like well, maybe you're, you're bolusing but maybe you're not checking your blood sugar. Or maybe you're kind of going through the motions but you haven't been to the doctor, you haven't had your eyes appointments in yours, you haven't had to get your, you know, your blood drawn. And, again, I think it's really important to understand that burnout, it can be, I mean, it's not just like a one time situation maybe you're busy and you went didn't go to your doctor's appointment or you didn't feel like injecting for that one meal that one time, but it is a pattern behavior. But it can be reversible. If you are in a burnout stage right now listening to this, I also want to you know, speak cope into that experience, that you might feel like you are in a hole and alone and feel like you can't get out. But I want to encourage and speak Copan to those people who might be listening who are in a kind of burnout stage right now.

Scott Benner 5:50
I have a question. But before I ask it, I know you're using different headphones today and usually do or they appaled wired

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:56
headphones. They are wired Apple Yes. Do you want me to switch?

Scott Benner 6:00
I want your hair to stop touching them. Oh, okay. That's all okay. Or might be my scarf. Let me take that something's rubbing it. That's okay. Okay, thank you. No, no, please. Is that better? I won't know till you start talking again. So my initial question as a man, I mean, listen, I'm a neophyte on this. I don't have diabetes. But I have been alive for 50 years. And I feel like I've experienced burnout on a number of things in my life. So is it? Is it a similar feeling? And a similar situation to anything else? I mean, could a person just get sick of getting up every day at seven o'clock and going to work or cleaning the house? Or like things that are repetitive that feel burdensome? Like is that? I mean, is this a common human feeling? Or do you think it's very specific to diabetes?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:49
Oh, I think it's definitely a common human experience of feeling burnout, going up going to work, getting, you know, maybe getting the getting the kids to school, making dinner, cleaning the house doing all the normal errands of life. I would say maybe the difference is with diabetes, burnout, obviously, that affects your your life and your health. But it might and that is both physically and emotionally. And not to minimize burnout in other areas. Maybe you're, you're on a you're doing like a diet and exercise regiment, you can burn out from that for periods of time. And that's a normal human phenomenon. Right? And I think to anticipate and expect that is also healthy. So you're not feeling so shameful in those moments or ashamed of yourself?

Scott Benner 7:37
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The only thing I can, but it made me think of just now when you said that, is that when my wife and I first got married, and we were talking about what we thought it meant to be married, you know, for your whole life. I remember saying, I don't know, like, by the time it's over, if we have, you know, eight, great years, nine, okay, years, three pretty great years, six crappy years, like, like, I don't know, like, I don't expect the whole thing to be not that I wouldn't work at it. But I would expect the ebbs and flows like Like everything else. And you don't mean like talking about this, just what you've been saying. First off, makes it feel so clear to me, that people need to understand that they haven't caught some special diabetes, flu, you know, what he mean? Like that this is how people's minds work. And that it could happen to you differently than it happens to me or more frequently, or less severe, etc. Like, it's not, it's not an experience, that's just, you know, it's not going to be one size fits all, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:42
Correct? Yeah. And I read a stat recently that over 50% of adults with type one experience, burnout or, and kind of a distress burnout situation, at least once a year. And I think what you were referencing, you know, in terms of your marriage, it's managing your expectations in terms of, can I live this perfect marriage or have a perfect diabetes, being a perfect diabetic, so to speak, and having this perfect straight line and all of the things I think it's okay to strive for excellence and to strive for healthy management, but in that, having appropriate expectations, helps prevent the disappointment and, and which then goes back to the shame and feelings of you know, pain and frustration and exhaustion and isolation, I think is the other big factor.

Scott Benner 9:44
Okay, and then commingled with health, which is what you were trying to say earlier, and then you're such a kind person, you you were like undaunted it couldn't happen to other people. But but your health is the I mean, it's really what makes it so emergent, right? Like if I if I burn out on vacuum The worst that's gonna happen is I have a dirty rug. If I burn out on Pre-Bolus thing, my a one C is gonna go up two points, then that's a different situation like it really is, it makes it more. I think I think you just said it, it makes it feel more like a failure, I would imagine. It makes it feel more panicky. And then you see people roll into that feeling all the time, like, well, you know, I mean, you know, like, I guess to bring it to a diet metaphor, like I already gained three pounds, What's five pounds, I already gained five pounds. What's, you know, I mean, like, my blood sugar is 150. Now, it's always 180. Now, it's always 200. And you just sort of incrementally I'll, you just you allow for more and more, because it starts to feel like, like, there's no way to get back to it. And I know that just something people struggle with, in general, like, how do I get back to where I mean to be when it feels like, this weight is on me? And it just gets heavier and heavier as times pass? So what's the answer to that question? Like, how do you reset? Is there a blanket statement for that? Or no?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:06
Oh, gosh, yes. Well, I think resetting I think the example you just shared, I would want to pause and say, Well, what what are you telling yourself? What are you thinking? What do you what are you thinking, which obviously affects your feelings, which affects your behaviors. And so if you're thinking, kind of your self talk is negative. And I'm never going to be able to get back to where I was, I'm never going to be able to figure out how to manage my blood sugar's in the way that I know I should, how. So kind of really, if you're in a very self deprecating, really negative self talk space, I think it would be healthy to reach out for help. And which is obviously a hard I know, we've talked about this a lot. It's a really hard first step. Because when you're in that zone of cycling through, I'm a bad diabetic, I can never figure this out. I'm always high. I'm or I'm always going up and down the roller coaster. I don't know how to do this. I think it is kind of a two prong approach. And I know we have talked about Will you need the tools to learn how to how to manage your blood sugar. Right. So one is one isn't having the skill set. But then also there's the the health and well being of your of your psyche and how you were talking to yourself, and how you're feeling about yourself in connection to your diabetes management. And that's when it's healthy. A healthy first step would be to reach out to your endocrinologist and asking for either some help or a referral to a therapist. Because I think that's when it's beneficial to not only learn the skill set of how to manage, but then also kind of process through How did you get to this place of feeling burnout? And what kind of feelings felt so overwhelming, that you stopped taking your insulin?

Scott Benner 13:06
So to me, this brings up the two these two things in my head that I think, support each other, or let me see what you think. Now, you know, because you've been on the podcast for a while, and who excuse me, I apologize. And people who listen know that for me. I mean, I'm not a mental health professional, and I don't have diabetes, but it's always been my hope or my assertion that having good tools would make management easier. And when I met and when that management is easier, that hopefully that would alleviate some of the burden some feelings that diabetes brings. I know that's not 100% True. I know it's not going to work for everybody. I've talked to people who understand management backwards and forwards and still, you know, experience exactly what we're talking about today. But you you brought up something, I'm going to use the wrong word here and you're going to correct me okay. But attitude. And I know it's not attitude when it's mental health, but it's what is it? It's intense. It's how you move forward. It's the like, I feel like you're talking about a bigger subject. I think you're talking I feel like you'll tell me if I'm wrong. I feel like you're talking about just fortitude like general life fortitude, and that you're going to run into things. And that if your expectation or your response is oh here something went wrong. I guess the whole thing's in the crapper. I'll just give up versus somebody who runs into a problem and just does not relent. They press forward and press for and I know that's not always a conscious decision that can be made that some people's brains are just wired differently. But I mean, is that what you're saying is it's just about how you attack the problem and how you think of it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:59
I I would agree to that. Yes, a little bit. I think it's about mindset, right? And how either how you're wired or how you've learned to respond to either trauma. I mean, obviously with this is that because it's chronic management, right? Learning how to manage your diabetes is a forever thing. And so having a positive mindset is definitely helpful. But just because you have a positive outlook, attitude, Mantra mindset, doesn't mean that you won't experience these challenging emotions at some point. Yeah, I think then learning then knowing what to do with them is the next step. Because what, and I think we're kind of getting more into, like, what we people would define as distress, diabetes, distress, like, you can still have an amazing a one C, you can still know how to manage and Pre-Bolus and do all of the all the things that you have, you know, taught so well on the podcast, but maybe you're still have a fear of hypoglycemia. Or maybe you still are struggling around food, or maybe you're still struggling around how people engage with you, whether it's friends or family about type one, but you know how to manage it well. And so those still, those little moments can still cause this distress. Throughout your life, even if you've if you know how to manage, yeah, and then that, then it's okay, I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. I'm hearing myself say, I'm so irritated by diabetes, why do I have to have this? Or why does? Why do my friends at school? Keep talking to me about it? Or why do they keep saying, Can you eat that? Can you eat that, like those if they're little, those are like little blips on the radar that will happen, you know, for our entire life. And then it's learning how to respond to like, it's okay to have those feelings. Obviously, it's okay to be frustrated. It's I talk about a lot with my, my families, my and my clients, it's okay to be angry and frustrated with having type one, right? That's a normal response, and said, Okay, now, what are we going to do with that? Can we express it? Can we process that, as opposed to then spiraling further further into a hole? Right, which then leads to the burnout? Does that make sense? It does. Okay,

Scott Benner 17:21
I'm not a Listen, I'm not a I'm not a bootstraps person, like I would never turn to you and be like, try harder. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel that way. And I understand that a lot of people have a lot of different impacts that maybe are lifelong, or, you know, something that makes this trauma feel, you know, reflective of something that's happened to them in the past. I only have myself like, I only know that I raised like, I don't I'm always I'm endlessly interested about this. Because my wife grew up in a tough situation. I grew up in a much harder situation. I don't know why. I'm a head down, keep moving move forward person and not a oh my god, what happened to me, this is a disaster. I give up. And I don't think I can take credit for it is what I'm saying. And I don't you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what it is about me or the situation that I came through and all the people who impacted me along the way, or didn't, I just turned out the way I turned out. And so is it just as simple as like, you know what I mean? Like, I know, I'm asking like a deeper question that you probably don't have the answer to but, but is it just random? Is it just random that, that I'm the God? Like, if the zombies come, Erica, come find me. We're living through it. Okay. I don't know why. I just know, Scott wins in the end, okay. It's how it's how it's just always gone for me. How is that a function of my decision making? Is it a function of something that happened to me in the past? And is it and and what about the person who sees the zombies and just lays down and goes, Okay, eat me. Surrender. Yeah, you know, like, like, that's not that's, they can no more be told that they're at fault for that, then I can be given credit for my response. That's how I think about it, but I don't know how that helps people.

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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:18
And I feel like we're talking about you know, is it is it resilience? Is it and and how is that? Is it nature? Is it nurture? is a little bit of both? I would I would look at you know, what was your what was modeled for you and your family? As a child? What was what kinds of other traumas or stressors were you exposed to as a child? And how did you see the people around you respond to those? Yeah. You know, for some families when their child is diagnosed, it can be a very, I mean, it's obviously traumatic for anyone in the beginning. And then there are some families who say we're going to this isn't going to stop you. We're going to do all the things all the time. And then there are some families who it might it might take longer for them to get to that kind of baseline. Okay, we've we're going to get through this and that's okay.

Scott Benner 24:11
So I I'm not minimizing anything, but I can tell you raising my kids that, you know, Arden got hit once in the knee with a softball while she was pitching by a much bigger girl. And I mean it down to her like he went down hard, right? And my wife's like, go check on her. I was like the coaches with her. And she's like you have to go out to and I'm like, she'll be alright letter. I Kelly's panicking. I'm like, Kelly, listen, if she's dead, she's already dead. There's nothing we can do about it. I said, But, but Right. But this is literally what I said to my wife. Don't be jealous ladies. And I said if she's dead, she's already dead. There's nothing we can do about it. But if she's going to be okay, one day, let her figure it out on our own for a minute. Like let's not make her think that every time something happens to her we're going to run behind her scoop her up and be like it's okay. And I did make my way to her. But not you don't mean like I wasn't running on the field screaming my baby, you know, like it was right away, let it play out that little girl, you guys will know Arden now is being five, seven and oh, she's a woman. But back then Arden was five, three, she weighed like 90 pounds. And she was tiny. And she got up, continued to pitch the inning, got the rest of her outs, bunted in the next inning, ran the first and then walked over to me and said, I think I should stop playing. Okay. So I said, Hey, no problem, what's wrong? And she's like, My knee is really swelling up. And I said, okay, so Oh my gosh. But that little moment, I think is why when you hear Arden interviewed on the podcast, you say to yourself, like, that kid just sounds like she doesn't even care that she has diabetes, because on some level, I don't think she does. Like I think that it's not I should say that it's not a number one stressor in her life. And it is a pain in the butt. Like she just came in here. 20 minutes before you and I recorded. She comes in and she goes, Hey, let's go get lunch and I said, I'm gonna record with Eric. And now I can't and she's like, Ah, she made a little disappointed face. And then I said, um, but I'll be done in about an hour. I'm gonna jump in the shower, we can go. And she's like, Okay. And then I said, is your pump almost out of insulin? And I watched her thing her eyes rolled back in her head. She thought and she goes, Yeah, I'll go change it. And I was like, okay, and she loved it. But no, like, no, like Scarlett O'Hara moment? No, what was me? I can't believe this is happening. You know? And I don't know, like, to me. It's a fine line when you're raising children, right? Like you. You have to let them stand on the edge by themselves. But they have to know you're there. But not feel like they don't have to do it. But But what happens if you're 19 or 20 years old? That's not how you were raised? What if somebody I don't want to say coddled, because I really do think, Erica, that when people talk about this nowadays? It's just? I don't know, I think it's I don't know, I don't think they talk about it correctly. I think people make overly simplified generalizations. We coddle kids now, you don't I mean, pressure makes diamonds. And they don't say anything else. Like, alright, well, pressure also makes you pressure also makes anxiety ridden people like, flip there. You know, you have to support people. You know, I hate using these likes. I hate using Office words, but you have to meet people where they are. So I can't believe I just said that. I feel like that was that was really good. I know. But I feel like an idiot say like, it's like if I ever said let's think outside of the box, I'd be the right person to be like, Oh, Scott, shut up. But, but it's just 100% True. You have to meet people where they are you have to raise your children who they are, not who you want them to be or what you think a perfect scenario would be. So then my question keeps coming back to me is now we've kind of covered the parenting aspect of it. I mean, if no one's paying attention, what I'm saying to you is let your kids struggle a little bit, but not too much. You figure out where it fits my opinion. But what I really want to hear from you is adults or adolescent children, or people you see in your practice, they come in, and this is how they see the world. It's against them. They're losing, it's too hard. Where do you where do you where would you begin to get somebody back and say, This is no harder for you than this for anybody else. And that person is doing great. Let's get you thinking more like that person?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:37
Well, I would never say that. But

Scott Benner 28:39
you wouldn't have a professional. Erica, you understand like? Good? Well, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:45
would first I would commend them for taking the first step for seeking help. Because that's often you know, the most challenging thing when you're in a state of burnout or high distress. I think I would also be curious to learn about their upbringing. You know, thinking about your story or softball story with Arden. I was wondering, you know, when you were a little boy, how were you tended to when you got hurt or had a hard day at school.

Scott Benner 29:19
I grew up in the 70s. I was taught to swim by being thrown in a pool and somebody's going he probably won't drown. When I fingers crossed when I was picked on it as a child, I can't believe I have to pull references in a row. But when I was picked on as a child can 1112 years old by the kid in I grew up in an apartment complex. The kid in the apartment complex that basically terrorized everyone he was older and bigger and stronger. In my mind. He was like Lou Ferrigno. I'm sure he wasn't. He would hold us underwater in the pool during the summertime. And I and my mom told me figure it out.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:58
There you go. There you go. Go figure it out. You were, you know, you were encouraged to, and I'm sure there was some sort of safety, sense of safety and nurturing, but also because you you do that as a father or your, you've learned that. And so I would be curious to hear just kind of what has been their history of dealing with stress. And when things are hard, how do they respond, I also would spend a lot of time normalizing the experience because being feeling like you're in a state of burnout, and you're, you're stressed out and overwhelmed, it's not. It's not a complication. It's not a sight. It's not, yeah, it's not a complication of having type one, or diabetes, type two, it doesn't matter. It's a part of living with it. And so I think helping, helping the client see that they're, they're not alone is a huge part of healing and growth, because I think you do get stuck in that. I'm the only one who can't figure this out. I'm the only one who's so burdened by living with this chronic illness. And so it is it is a normal part of living with type one. And so and then moving into a place of compassion as a result, I think once you realize that you're you're not alone, you can start to be kinder to yourself. And that's also another step towards healing is just learning how to nurture yourself and be compassionate and kind that way that maybe you didn't experience as a child and needed to

Scott Benner 31:48
how much of this is about your expectation for what should be?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:52
Oh, I think it's, it's majority of like, I having your expectation that it's everything is your going to be perfect. And get, you know, the time everything perfectly, have the correct response. And all of it is a big is a big part of it. And so I think understanding that you can't be a perfect, quote, diabetic, that you are going to have in there, they're going to be moments, not just like mistakes on it on a daily basis, or like whoops, I Bolus, you know, four units, I should have probably done double that or should have started that, you know, people sooner. That's, that's totally normal. But then also being kind to yourself when you when you're in when you're in burnout. So it's like they think they practicing self compassion in the moment to moment, but then also in the larger, you know, grander scheme of where you are emotionally.

Scott Benner 32:53
So you hear people say this, I think they're half and joking, and they're half being serious. But I've heard a lot of people say this, and I have to be honest with you, I I subscribed to this a little bit as I was coming up. So again, it's not diabetes, but I grew up really broke. My dad left when I was 13. We didn't have any money. My mom was always working. I was raising my brothers. By the time I was 13 and a half, like, you know, they were like, in five. I have the bar set so low, Erica. I walk across the room and nothing bad happens. I'm like we are winning. Finally, coming together for Scott, and like, so I really do think that I think that because I was I because I grew up in a situation that just wasn't full of things going the way you wanted or wins. Then anytime something went even reasonably, right. I was like, Hey, we're removing like, we're moving forward. I'm getting there, you know. And I don't I mean, obviously, nobody wants my upbringing. But I don't know how you I remember feeling when my kids were little that we had, we had a send a little bit, my wife and I had better our lives. And I remember worrying, where is my son's friction going to come from? Mm hmm. You know, like, how can you? How can he How can he learn to see the zombies and laugh? If everything that happens to him is always perfect. And that anytime something goes wrong? It's tough. I'll tell you right now, his health had been perfect till he was 21 when he got Hashimotos he had a much harder time with it than Arden would have. Because nothing had gone wrong in 21 years for him. And it was it was it was more of a process now that's when my wife and I come in and support him. And you know, it's tough because you're you're supporting a person who might not want to hear your support at times. So you have to kind of be like a ninja about when you slip it in sometimes and not go too far. And there's a whole there's a skill set in too into getting thoughts into people's heads without, without them pushing back so hard that you don't get to say the next thing. But I don't know, I just to me expectations got to have a lot to do with it. And from there it's perspective.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:14
Yes. And I think also what you're talking about is like, because you went through the challenging times, not only did that build resilience, but its sense of, you know, grit, that's a big term these days in the mental health world is, which a lot of people also experienced, you know, but now coming out of the pandemic of like, this sense of grit, like we can get through this, but that doesn't always end and also, the challenges has brought you to a place of gratitude. And so I think, fine, it's like finding that balance of okay, I can experience the stressors and these hard moments. But you also have found, at least in your own story, you know, moments of gratitude, when things are things go well, and you're, you're excited and you celebrate.

Scott Benner 36:03
Yeah, I also think that on social media, I'm not a big proponent of, you know, blaming social media for things, but I do get why seeing people struggle online is important. Like I like when people share honestly, I guess, because then you can look and go, Oh, hell, like, that happens to me, I thought I was the only one but happen to that person, too. I try my hardest to balance, hope about management of diabetes on the podcast with remembering to tell people like my kids, blood sugar is not always 90. You know, they may not like I know it, could I know you can hear Arden's a one C and think, Oh, she must walk around with a 92 blood sugar constantly. Straight line all day long. Yeah, now that works. And so but but what I do is, I limit highs, I limit the length of spikes, like I get, you know, I don't you know, where some people, you know, think of as a higher number, you get the 140, I start getting a little like a I don't like how this is going, you know, 180 I consider high. And all I learned about that, that that example for Arden's care was that at 180, I could crush that high and bring it back down without creating a low. So I just changed in my mind the definition of a high blood sugar. That's all I did, right? Because prior to that, I thought High was 300. Right? Right. And that's it. So I just decided that high went one ad, which changed how I reacted to things, which changed my outcome was like that. So and but somebody needs to say that to you once so that, you know. And I mean, Eric, I don't know how much you actually get to listen to this podcast. But I've spoken to just I mean, close to 1000 people at this point. Now, and everyone's stories are fairly similar. The reasons why people do well versus struggle. There's a ton of similarities in there, most of the time, it's got nothing to do with them. It's got to do with the random stuff, like meeting the right doctor, or having a parent who didn't help too much and didn't help too little, you know, having some hope. Like, like meeting people who have diabetes, hearing other people's stories, like all these very common through lines. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, in the end? I think that's, I mean, that's what we're talking about, right? Like, we're not just talking about how do you save somebody who's so far down the burnout hole that they can't see the light anymore? You're also talking about? How do you stay out of it to begin with or limit your time in it? I think,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:32
yes. And I think all of those things are very common, you know, key factors in helping you survive, living with type one, you know, the community, not feeling like you're alone, having the support, having a doctor who understands having the hope, I think as a human belief that you're going to be okay, and hope that you it won't it there will be moments and seasons where diabetes might feel more challenging. And there are all sorts of you know, those, they're the normal stressors of life. And, but understand that it's not always going to be like that. I think that's, that's a common misunderstanding. And when you're feeling down, you feel like you're always gonna feel that down. But to remember that, you know, those those it passes, it does pass and to have hope and understanding that it will helps you kind of get through those stages.

Scott Benner 39:34
It feels to me like expecting that everything isn't going to be perfect without dreading that everything isn't going to be perfect is a big key, right? Like knowing that. I mean, listen, everyone has who uses insulin is going to agree with that. I'm gonna say doesn't matter how well things are going in the back of your head you're like, This is gonna get sideways at some point. I don't know when and I don't know why. but I am gonna just like, you know, all of a sudden, like see a blood sugar is just creeping 9110 120 You're like, Oh God, this is never gonna stop. I haven't said this a little while but those kinds of those kinds of blood sugars that remind me that price is right.

Unknown Speaker 40:14
Yes, the claiming Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:17
Yeah, yeah. Cuz they they're like yo Lee and there's this you're like that happens and the whole time you're watching it you can see the person playing the game like it's gonna stop. It's gonna stop, it's gonna stop and then it doesn't it falls off the edge. Yes, that's how I That's how. That's how I think of those climbing blood sugars. On a side note, a woman sent me a text today and asked me if I was dyslexic because she said that Dyslexics think in pictures. I'm not dyslexic, but I never heard that before. Yeah, visual. Yeah, I just, I just my brain makes connections to things that don't appear to have anything to do with.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:53
Well, you I was right there with you. I was totally envisioning the guy climbing the mountain. I can hear

Scott Benner 41:01
the yodeling. I mean, I don't even think Drew Carey, I think Bob Barker, and that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:04
Oh, for sure. Oh, no, for sure. Yes, Tiny. Microphone. He

Scott Benner 41:08
had everything? Yes. But so like when you're in that situation, and people have heard me say it on the podcast a lot. And I believe in it, like one of the keys to diabetes management is not to give into the drama. And like, that's how I used to think of it. But as we're having this conversation, I mean, it might be a little reductive to say drama, but at the same time, I'm not going to apologize for it. Because I mean it and I think it's accurate. You can't have something happen and start running around like, Oh, what was me this is i This is how it's gonna be everything sucks. You, to me, you use that moment to try to figure it out. It's an example for you to look at, you make a better decision next time with insulin, which is most likely where it went wrong. And, and and it's a learning experience, because every time you ignore a learning experience, it becomes a, it's a it's another problem. That's just going to happen again. And you know, so what I see happen to people, when I'm kind of watching them online and talking to them, is that some people throw themselves into the despair. And some people steel up their spine and fight back. I'm endlessly fascinated by who is who.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:20
Right and how, how did they get there? Right?

Scott Benner 42:23
Oh, I'm never gonna not be interested in that. Yes. You know, I don't think there's an answer, like I said, but it's fascinating to me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:32
Oh, absolutely. And I think yeah, there is no kind of general summary statement that you can make as to how or why you fall into either category. I think it's, it's all it's all the factors that we, that we talked about.

Scott Benner 42:48
So I'm going to draw a line here. Okay, you're probably gonna disagree with me. But anyway, that's what will make this fun. Okay, and I'm not saying dollar for dollars, apples to apples. Okay. But in the last handful of years, in society in general, online, specifically, I feel like I'm seeing people who want to be upset. Does that make sense? Like not that like, like, they, they're, I don't know, somebody says something social or political or something like that. And if you're just reasonable about it, and step back, you go, alright, I see what they're saying. Or, you know, I don't agree, but whatever. But instead, they feel like that's an opening to proselytize their idea. Right. Like, it's almost like they're looking for an opening to say something. Mm hmm. I wonder if, similarly, but not the same. If when something goes wrong in someone's life, if they're just, they're just almost happy, and maybe subconsciously happy to have a reason to complain? Like, they just want to tell the world like, this sucks. I have diabetes. And you can't say that to people. You can't walk around going, oh my god, everything's terrible. I gotta shoot that I got this pump on. I'm doing this. I hate all this. Right, like, so it's just a great opportunity to commiserate maybe just with yourself. Because there's no one else. Like, that's what I'm starting to think like, do you just does it give you the opportunity to just sit down for a second and feel bad for yourself? Because you don't have anybody else to talk about it with day to day? Like, I don't know how and I guess

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:23
you're wondering like, is that how people kind of get to a stage of burnout? Or you're saying is that an opportunity for them to it's okay to validate the challenges to yourself

Scott Benner 44:33
as ironic as this is gonna sound? I think both. I think that it's, I don't think there's anything wrong with stopping for a minute and going oh, my God, this is hard. I wish this was not happening to me. But I don't know how valuable that is for you to do with any real consistency. I have had my absolute thoughts. I have stood in a room privately and thought how the hell did this happen to my kids? When I look around I see so Are many other people who do not have concerns like this. How is my smart and funny and pretty daughter always worried about this thing or always having to think about this thing or waking up in the morning and tell me hey, my stomach hurts. I don't know what it's from. Or, you know, the other night, Erica, her toes started to go numb. Oh, Arden's been Arden's been tested for everything under the sun. And she, she has hypothyroidism and type one diabetes. Like there's nothing that points to any other thing. Addison's or whatever, whatever anyone's gonna hear and think of next, right. Trust me, we've looked, okay. So I believe, thank you. And yet, here's my daughter trying to do homework. Dad, my toes are numb, can you just squeeze them? So they don't hurt like this till it stops? 17? Why is that gonna happen to her? And and if I were to think that over and over again, that would crush me. Right? So I squeeze your toes, and then we get up and we keep moving. You don't mean like you? You just can't like, Eric, it's too much, it'd be too much. Like, I think the problem that I just realized with this conversation, is that I think of myself, I think of myself as a person who's going to beat the zombies. And I believe that, but I don't know that that's true. I just think it's important that I believe it. Right? You know, I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:29
Gosh, I think you just touched on a lot of different things. I think having the space, like I see, you know, in the Facebook group, who are like, particularly people who are newly diagnosed, often caregivers will will share and grieve. And they receive the validation. And I think that's a beautiful place to share your initial grief and and then you receive the the validation and the community support. It's just, it's beautiful. And I see that all the time. That's totally healthy, and appropriate, I think. And then you're wondering, but how I think we want to look at is it becoming a pattern in your response to living with the chronic illness or being the caregiver for it? I think, yes, it is so normal and healthy, to to commiserate and to let them out. And say I cannot believe we're still dealing with this or now where you know, all the like the transitions going into high school, going into college, having children, maybe your your doctor moves, or you have to change insurance, and you have to change doctors, all of those things. Or you have you been on all all of the different factors in management. Within life transitions are definitely opportunities to to vent and grieve with your, with your family, with community. But I think you're wondering, like, when does that become? If that is your automatic thought and response to daily management, whether you are the person with type one or the caregiver, then that would be a time to maybe look internally and say, Gosh, I'm not sure I know how to manage this emotionally. And I need to reach out for more professional help, right, because I think I do want to normalize that the process of grieving. And that's what it is. I just think if you're feeling the loss of normalcy, but then you're having that balance, sorry,

Scott Benner 48:29
no, no, you have to be able to talk to some, I mean, in the end, if we if we strip all this down, you're a little kid, you didn't get good communication for your parents, or you didn't get good communication from a doctor or you didn't have good communication with other people who have diabetes. And now here you are these problems that you thought, Oh, this is never gonna affect me, I'm good start to pile up on you. You have to go seek out someone to talk to like it could be Erica, if you live in California, or worry, it could be a friend or I know a lot of people listen to the show because hearing other people's problems helps alleviate their own. You know, like whatever it is, but you can't just sit there and hope it's not going to happen or that it's going to go away. Because that's not gonna work. That's just going to get worse and worse and worse. Right now is conversation about it too, no matter where you have the conversation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:22
Yes and then and then learning how to because as we know there will be challenging moments with with not just diabetes but in life and learning how to respond how to give yourself that like the validation and then having to move on and I'm sorry to hear about artists toes by the way, I skipped over I wanted to say they hope that you that it becomes resolved. You're very

Scott Benner 49:43
nice. We're gonna cut our toes off and fix something if we had all Verto surgically removed then the tip of her foot started to tingle. Oh my gosh. Anyway, then it would turn into like a weird horror movie where eventually Arden would just be a nub. Anyway That's not here nor there. We're not going to cut off her toes. She has an appointment in a couple of days with a integrative endocrinologist and we're gonna just keep, we're gonna keep hacking away until we figure something out. But we're not going to stop living while we're trying to figure it out. Meaning meaning that if Listen, I'm not saying that this is the truth, but meaning that if Arden's life is, you know, let's say her health is let's say we have a crystal ball, we can see the future and Arden's health is going to completely degrade by the time she's 35. And she's going to spontaneously combust. Like, I still wouldn't sit around today and go woe is me, I'd be like, get the college, learn the thing, get good at what you're doing, meet people live your life. I think that's just super important to remember that, that this is gonna sound so hippy, but you're not promised any certain amount of time. And so the truth is, you just got to live the best you can day to day. And you know, some people, some people get to walk through a field of flowers through their life, and not too much goes wrong for them. And some people are being shot with arrows while they're trying to walk forward through that, that field of flowers. But in my mind, I want to be the guy that gets hit with the arrow and doesn't stop. Like, I want to, I want to take as many of them as I can before I give up. And I just think that that's you can think of it a different ways. Like maybe it's fake it till you make it. Or maybe it's just a little bit of little blip of blind ignorance on my part. But one way or the other. I know what the alternative is. The alternative is it's over. And that's not okay for me. So I'd rather walk through that field of flowers with it with an arrow in my shoulder, then not see the field of flowers at all. I don't know, that's just kind of how I think about life. Like, I don't know how long this is gonna last. I'm not missing any of it. That's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:51
yeah, so I love that. And I think Yeah. And how did you get there? It's all you know, your life experience.

Scott Benner 51:59
You're bringing Erica.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:02
Oh, my gosh. Oh, and then and then you've learned you've learned to how you want to face your day and your life. I think, as you were talking about, you know, you're you guys are live, you're moving forward. But you also are getting the doctor's appointment to kind of explore if there's something else going on. For Arden, I think that's you're able to break down, that there's this bigger concern what is happening, but you can break it down into smaller chunks, you are taking it one day at a time. I think that part of what also leads to the feeling of over I'm so overwhelmed. I have to I'm just giving up. Obviously, that's not always a conscious decision. It's just feeling like I don't even know how to get back to, you know, ground zero in terms of my functioning emotionally, physically with my management. And so finding ways to break it down and just say, Okay, well, I'm going to make an appointment. I'm going to do this, I'm not going to fix everything today. I think that's another helpful way to respond.

Scott Benner 53:03
I'll break it down into two sentence for anybody's listening, get your Basal right Pre-Bolus Your meals, everything's gonna get a lot easier. And when it gets easier, go listen to the pro tips and make other like adjustments. I seriously mean that I don't listen, it's a good first step. You're sure five people or 5 million people listen to those pro tips. I don't make any more or less money. I don't you know, I'm just telling you, I think the informations in there. I think Jenny and I laid it out really well. And it's a way that's absorbable it's not overwhelming. And you really will see a difference. You be surprised you get those high blood sugars down and more stable, how much better you feel and how much better that makes you at being able to weather a bad day. You don't mean because you're not already. I mean, we don't talk about it enough, right? But high blood sugars, swinging blood sugars, they affect your emotions, too. And your and your guess your clarity, everything.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:54
They in two ways they affect your emotions, not only like physically because you don't feel you don't feel good physically, which makes you feel emotionally not well. But then I think there's also like the self efficacy, self competency part of it too. Like not only do you feel physically yucky, and then you might have the I can't even figure this out.

Scott Benner 54:13
You got file you're on top of it. Yeah. Oh, I'll tell you I just I love. I love talking about stuff like this. But you know, I just want to say this might be clinically improper. And you can do your own disclaimer afterwards. I do not. I don't ascribe to what Scott just said. But I think if you're struggling sometimes and you're listening to another person, whether it's on this podcast or it's me now or whatever it is, and you think God I wish I was more like that in that situation. Just steal it from me for a little while. Just pretend like there's nothing wrong with just pretending until I do think fake it till you make it's a real thing. You know, I there's nothing wrong with saying other people do this. Damn it. I bet you I could too. And even though this feels completely wrong to me right now. I'm just going to, I'm going to say the right things. And I'm going to do the right things. And I'm going to believe it. And maybe because the truth is, the truth is that the difference between success and failure is really just, it's just taking the right steps. Do you know what I mean by that, like you can, you can paint a wall, right? Or you can paint a wall wrong. If I teach you how to paint a wall correctly, you don't have to know about painting to paint the wall anymore. Somebody showed you what to do you do it when you're done, the walls got paint on it, five, or six or seven or 10 walls later, you actually know how to paint the wall. And then you get the outcome that you expect. So there's nothing wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with that idea. Just to model somebody who's having success until you can create that success for yourself. Am I completely off on that? Or

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:53
no, I think I think that can work for many people having you know, it's like the mantra of like, I can do it. I'm gonna, here's, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm gonna model what I see other people do. I'm going to fake it. And I'm going to tell myself, I have hope and belief in myself. And I think for many people that might be all they need is having that mentor having the tools. Yeah, I think there are others who might need more support getting to that place to have the hope to be able to say, I know I can do this, or I believe in myself. I know, I just need to do X, Y and Z. And so I just want to also speak to people who might be listening who are feeling like, well, I can't even say that, I can't even pretend I can't even try and fake it. Because I'm so low, I'm struggling so much. And, and that's okay to you know, to be in a place where you feel like I can't even I can't even imagine faking it till I make it because I can't even get out of bed. And so I just want to speak some compassion into that group as well, that it's okay if you're in that zone. But I think for many people, that might be the first step to having that mantra. Yeah. Has it happened to you? Did it? Did burnout ever happen to me? Yeah. I would say not in the sense of a long period of time. But I can say, burnout often might look like and this happens to a lot of the the teens that I've worked with as well, when I was a teenager, just wanting to be, quote, normal and fit in. And so maybe this was back in the day with, you know, fingerprints and injections where I wouldn't take my blood sugar. For, I wouldn't say it was all day. But there are definitely moments over long periods of time where I would not take my blood sugar because I just didn't want to deal with it, I would still inject. But that was not positive. You know, there weren't always positive outcomes with that. And so I would say burnout can look like in certain stages of life. Just wanting to ignore, like, you don't have type one, to a certain extent, and so that I did experience that for sure as a teenager in high school.

Scott Benner 57:59
Back then, when I was younger, my friend decided to not have diabetes for a week. Then he was in the hospital, he was in decay. But if he told me afterwards, he's like, I just didn't want to do it for one week. You know, and I don't know what led him to that. And I can't ask him now because he's gone. But I guess I think we spoke about him. Yeah, but I just remember like, so clearly it happening. He just disappeared one day. And I was like I called his house. It's not like he's in the hospital, and then spoke to him afterwards. And that's all he said. He said, I just didn't want to do it for one week. But sadly, that's not the way it works. So, Eric, I've been mulling over for a half an hour where I want to tell this story, you're gonna be so horrified by it. But please remember that it happened like over 40 years ago, okay, okay. My dad grew up on a farm. And if I disagreed with him, he'd yell at me if I didn't agree with him after that. He'd smack me that was just sort of that was the process. Okay. And I remember one day, I don't know what we were talking about. But I can tell you that I was only maybe 12 years old. And he was physically imposing as a as a person, but specifically to me at 12. He looked like a, like, he looked like a monster to me. Like he was huge, you know, and he was yelling at me for something. And I knew he wasn't right. And I could have easily just said, like, alright, yeah, I'm sorry. And instead, I tried to, I tried to converse with him, which, you know, always goes really well when someone's yelling at you. And I pointed out where I thought I was right. And he didn't like that. And he smacked me. And I, I did it again. I responded again. And I think the next time he hit me, I stumbled, and I went to the ground. Like, I really want to be clear. Not that it matters. He did not knock. He didn't hit me hard enough to knock me off my feet. I literally backed up and like stumbled over something. But once I was on the ground it was too much effort to reach down to hit me. So he just started doing it with his foot instead. And it wasn't like in a movie, like he wasn't kicking me in the stomach and doubling me over, he was just like, again, not making I genuinely, I'm not, I'm not covering from A to B thing to do, no one should do it. I don't care if it was the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or whatever, I'm not saying that, I just want to let you know, he was not kicking me to my death. And so he's now re asking the question, and saying things like, Do you agree with me now? And then I'd say no, oh, my goodness, he kicked me. And so at some point, I gathered up all of my strength. And I said, you can hit me as much as you want, it's not going to make you right. And he stopped. And I remember that moment as a triumph in my life. I don't remember it as being smacked. I don't remember it as being abuse, I remember it as me standing up for myself, and actually, being able to change make an effect of change. Like, I don't think it changed him. I don't think it made him less of who he was. But from there forward, he did not try to pressure me out of my opinion ever again. And I know that's not what's supposed to happen in a parenting relationship. I'm not, I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying, sometimes, you have to look this stuff in the face, and just be like, and just get angry. And, and stick up for yourself, kind of no matter what's gonna happen, like, in the end, like, your it, like you and your health, and this diabetes thing and all that comes with it. I think at some point, you just got to stand in front of that monster and be like, I don't care what you do. I don't give up. And I don't know, I just think I think that's a big part of who I am. And, and as much as I don't want to have a memory of being smacked as a kid. It's one of my most enduring prideful moments.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:05
Well, Scott, think Well, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that. I feel like that depicts and explains why and how you are the person today and how you respond to trauma. How old were you again, when this happened?

Scott Benner 1:02:24
I couldn't move maybe 11 or 12 years old?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:27
Wow. Yeah. Did you ever have an opportunity to share that? I mean, I don't know if you like kind of relationship you had with your dad as an adult, or if he's a lifestyle, I'm sorry, I don't know that.

Scott Benner 1:02:39
He left about a year later. And I didn't see him until I was an adult. And maybe more than a handful of times, at the end of his life. Uh, we did see him and explained to him how all that felt. At that point. He was an older man. It's so interesting with guys, like once the testosterones gone, they're just different. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't, I wasn't talking to the guy that smack me when I was 11. When you know, when he was in his 70s. But, you know, we were very clear with him about how I took my brothers to meet him one day, and I said, Look, I don't think we're here to make a relationship. We are here to unburden ourselves. Do not worry about how he feels you tell him how you feel. And so we did. We did that. And I mean, I was at his deathbed when he died. And I was quite glad that I was there. So yeah, I feel I don't have any that I'm aware of lingering concerns about it at all. It was also the 70s Like people hate each other for like, any reason whatsoever, it wasn't uncommon for this to happen. Erica one time I shot my brother with a BB gun just to see what would happen that 70s By the way, always wondering, it hurts like hell,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:57
yeah. Oh, wow. I think I mean, not only did that story is obviously a part of your, your growth and, you know, character development, but that also was who you are. I mean, in that moment, that was who you are, you were, you know, sticking up for yourself for truth. And so you had, it feels like you had you were born with a sense of grit.

Scott Benner 1:04:22
I want to I want to be clear that I think you are who you are in your mind. Like, like, if you're thinking back on if you're hearing that story of First of all, you're horrified. I appreciate that. I'm sorry, I had to tell it to you. But if you're picturing me as like some sort of like, in shape, buff, 12 year old kid who has that, like I was a little fat kid. Like I had no reason to stick up for myself seriously, Arca like there was nothing imposing about me. There was no that man did not think I was gonna stand up and turn the tide on him get on. I mean, like it was. All I had was what was in my heart and in my head, like that's how I think of myself. I almost don't even know what I look like. Like him. I my thoughts. That's how I that's how I think of myself. And I can't imagine something you could give me that I don't think I could conquer, I'm, I'd be wrong. But I can't imagine that thing. And there's nothing about the way I grew up that gave me any kind of confidence, like not nothing like that. I just, I don't know, I just tried to remain true to what I expect for myself. And I think I think everybody, that's a simple thing for people to do, to say I want to be healthy. And I don't want my blood sugar's to jump all over the place, damn it, and I can stand up to this and make a change. And if you don't know what to do, functionally with diabetes, just find please like it's in this podcast or find someone else. Because a lot of this goes away when you're not chasing blood sugar's around constantly. It's a huge, it's that, that that one aspect of type one, diabetes is a huge trigger for the rest of this. It's that that feeling that everything's never comfortable or settled, or the you know what you're doing. And when you can get rid of those feelings. I mean, this thing just gets, I would never say diabetes gets easy. But I think you get so good at it at some point, it can feel easy. And and that's where a lot of this goes away, I think, but maybe easier. Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:06:25
I think yeah, I think the what you were just describing, you know, your thoughts are who you are. I mean, that's, I believe that as well. And that's why our thoughts are so important, because it does impact how we feel and what we do. And so I think, yes, having having the skill set, can reverse kind of that the triangle of okay, I have the I have the tools, I have the skill set, I do feel better. And now I have the thought I do have some hope. And that is a great first step to changing your thinking about how you how you deal with it,

Scott Benner 1:07:00
and to communicate, just keep communicating. Because I mean, that story that I just told, I mean, I feel like I just told Erica, but you know, now I realize a few more people are going to hear it than just but but I'm not bothered by that. Because I've gone over this in my life more than once. And just communicating it and going over it just sort of it turns it more into perspective, I can draw on unless have some story about why I should be sad. You don't even because I am. I am not a sad person. I'm in eternally hopeful person. I'm telling you, if you and I were, I don't know, trapped on a desert island together. You'd be annoyed because every morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, This is it. This is the day we're getting out of here. Like and then I would set upon trying to make that happen. And if it didn't happen, I think I'll try again tomorrow.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:50
Try it tomorrow.

Scott Benner 1:07:52
I don't know. Like, I feel lucky that that's how my brain works. I'll be honest, yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:55
You know, oh, thank you. I'm glad that we that you have that hope and you get your share that hope with us. And thank you again for sharing such a vulnerable memory.

Scott Benner 1:08:07
Oh, you make me feel so gushy inside when you're nice.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:13
Oh, well. I'm glad

Scott Benner 1:08:14
I feel like we're at the end of our appointment and you're like okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:17
I do I do.

Scott Benner 1:08:21
You know what, let's, let's before we say goodbye, let's tell everybody here that you and I are going to put a defining together for for mental health in over the the rest of 2022 and start getting it out to them as soon as possible. Yes, I am excited about it. And why do you have extra time now Erica, tell them

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:39
Well, now I want full full time private practice. And so I'm very excited to to share the the future episodes with you all with Scott, and more available to meet with you all. So California

Scott Benner 1:08:53
starting in June, right? You're starting in June, you're gonna go Yes. Yes. Well, I've said it when you're not being recorded a million times. But you're one of my favorite people to talk to and I'm very grateful for the way you and I go back and forth. I think it's I think it's it's hard to find people that I that I vibe with so well. And, and so I love that you're coming on. I love that you're gonna have more time. What's your website?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:17
Erica four site.com Alright, cool.

Scott Benner 1:09:21
And you have to be a California resident to to see you right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:24
Yes, yes. In person or telehealth,

Scott Benner 1:09:28
big state. Gotta be a couple of you over that's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:31
all. Well, thank you, Scott. I appreciate it.

Scott Benner 1:09:34
No, thank you so much. I'll talk to you soon.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:35
Okay, bye.

Scott Benner 1:09:46
First, let me thank Erica for coming back on the show and let you all know how excited I am to do a defining series with her about mental health and wellness. I'd also like to thank Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod promise And remind you to go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Do you need a meter? Of course you do. Do you have a good one? No might not. But if you had the Contour Next One blood glucose meter you would contour next one.com forward slash juicebox

I'd like to thank you so much for listening. Like you know, there's going to be another episode of The Juicebox Podcast coming up very soon. And remind you to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, or find the show on Instagram, Tik Tok, Twitter, wherever Juicebox Podcast, go follow on the Insta gram machine, please. Thank you. I'm obviously a seasoned social media user. And you're not going to be wasting your time at all following me. You might be but just follow me anyway, please. In case I got something important to tell you. This is how I would tell you. You understand how social media works. I don't need to explain this. What else? Thanks so much for the recent reviews and ratings. They were terrific. Whoever left them good on you. Appreciate it. Glad you're loving the show. And that's pretty much it. podcast is cruising along it is doing really well. That is because of you guys. I don't say thank you enough for that. But I absolutely should be saying it every five seconds. The podcast downloads are they're just, there's it's crazy how many there are. And I I can't even take credit for the spread of the word. You guys do all that yourself. Word of mouth is how the show grows. And so I really appreciate it when you take time to tell someone else about it. Alright, again, I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. humbled that you guys listen. Thanks so much.