#1092 Black Diamond

Dave is a newly diagnosed type 1 and a new father.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1092 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Dave is an adult who was recently diagnosed with type one diabetes he believes after having Coxsackie virus, the way he was diagnosed is incredibly interesting. Of course he was then misdiagnosed as a type two, and the story unfolds. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juicebox If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juicebox.

Dave 1:44
My name is Dave. I'm 34 years old and I was diagnosed type one diabetic last April. So it's been a little bit over a year now. Oh, wow.

Scott Benner 1:55
Was that unexpected?

Unknown Speaker 1:56
Completely and totally unexpected?

Scott Benner 2:00
Nobody else in your family? Nope, no

Speaker 1 2:03
family history. And the way I found out was pretty interesting. I was definitely it was definitely unexpected.

Scott Benner 2:11
Alright, I'm gonna ask one more question. And I want to know how you found out. Yeah, in hindsight now. Are there autoimmune issues in your family? People with celiac thyroid, stuff like that? No, nothing? Nothing at all. Okay. All right. Go ahead, Dave. How did this happen? Yeah. So

Speaker 1 2:28
it had been a while since I had been to the doctor. And I just went into establish care and had some routine bloodwork done by my primary care office and went home that day. And then my lab work started coming back on my chart. And I got a call from my wife who's in health care. And she had asked if I had seen any of my results coming in. And I was like, no, why do you ask me? She's like, well, your blood sugar's 471. And I was like, Well, that's pretty interesting, because I feel totally fine. In fact, the day before I had went in, I was skiing for probably five or six hours the night before, and I was actually headed back to the mountain after my appointment. And I thought that the doctor must have mixed up my lab work. And I went to the store and I bought a glucometer. And I checked my glucose at home and it was like 480 my UA came back, I was spilling ketones and protein in my urine. And, again, I felt totally fine. So I tried to call my primary care office couldn't get a hold of anyone. And my wife was like, You need to go to the emergency room. Like you're gonna guarantee K, or you're not far.

Scott Benner 3:47
What is your wife? Like? Vaguely do? I'm not trying to? She's a nurse practitioner. Okay. So she she really knew what was happening. And you know, she loves you, Dave, because instead of the phone calls, like, Hey, we're breaking up. She's like, there's something wrong with your health.

Speaker 1 4:04
Yeah, she was like, How do you feel okay, and I was like, Yeah, I feel great. Like I'm gonna go skiing afterwards. Like what's up? She's

Scott Benner 4:11
Where do you by the way? Where do you live where you can ski after work? I can barely get my mail after work. What's happening?

Speaker 1 4:16
Yeah, I live in Salt Lake City. So we're about a half hour from the mountains. So Gotcha. It's a quick jaunt after work. Do

Scott Benner 4:26
you think again, looking backwards? Did you feel fine? Or were you trying to talk yourself out of being sick?

Speaker 1 4:35
Yeah, so I think about that often. I mean, I think like really, there were I didn't have any like anything going on. I wasn't, you know, paying a lot or drinking a ton of water. Like, I think the only really indication that I could have you know, like, I was 144 pounds. Prior to going in, you know, it was usually hovering around 155 160. So I mean,

Scott Benner 4:58
you lost 15 pounds, you know? just didn't know what did you not know? What are you like, look at me thin is a pen? Like yeah,

Speaker 1 5:03
well, that's the thing we so we've lived in Utah for about two years now. So, you know, we ski probably four or five days a week. And you know, the mountains are right there. So we're hiking and biking, so I just kind of attributed it to being more active. Okay.

Scott Benner 5:18
Interesting. Do you remember what your a one C was? Yeah,

Speaker 1 5:23
it was 13.8 Oct. Dave, like

Scott Benner 5:26
I almost was going to I always almost positive. Like you'd say that it wasn't very high. And I thought maybe the onset just happened really quickly. But that doesn't seem right, either. I mean, with a 13.8, a one C, it seems like you might have been going through this for a bit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 5:40
So I so I tried to get a hold of my primary care office. And it's actually funny, the person that answered the phone was like, Well, what's, you know, why are you so concerned? And I was like, I mean, my agency's 13.8. And they're like, Well, you weren't fasted before your bloodwork, like that doesn't that has no effect.

Scott Benner 6:00
Does not matter? Are you sure you didn't have a Ring ding before the bloodwork, maybe a one C 14. And I'm here to out myself as not knowing what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 6:10
Right? So, you know, I was like, Well, I guess I'm going to scrap this and just go to urgent care, you know, at the main hospital, so I went up there. And they were like, holy crap, you know, we don't even have a lab up here. Like, you need to just go to the emergency department. So I went down there. And I have, you know, I sat in the waiting room for like, five hours and like, Does no one care that I'm in DK right now. And I get back there. And the I saw do initially, I think she was a resident, but you know, her attending physician came in with her as well. And they were like, you know, like, you're just a type two diabetic. I was like, How in the world? Can I be a type two diabetic? They're like, Yeah, you know, you just need to exercise more and some diet changes. And, you know, you can get a hold of this thing. And I'm like, I literally cannot exercise any more than I already do. And I already eat pretty healthy. So like, my it was like, baffling.

Scott Benner 7:12
That's fascinating. Because Are they aware in that moment that you've recently lost? 15 pounds and you ski almost like, it sounds like every other day?

Speaker 1 7:20
Yeah, yeah, I told them as like, I mean, from an activity standpoint, like, there's really not much more I can do

Scott Benner 7:28
see, Dave, you grew up? Well, it sounds like you're a polite person. If you were me. And you had all this sarcasm built up inside of you from years of torture of living in the northeast, you would have said, How much more do you want me to exercise? Exactly? I go up to the top of a mountain and rundown it on some sticks. Is that like not enough? What should I should I do it without the skis? Do you think that would I would have been like such an assault, just so you know. And, but instead not you your do you fight back? Like push back on them?

Speaker 1 7:58
Yeah, so my wife, I mean, they left the room. And I'm like, you know, what the hell is that? It's funny you say that? I'm actually from Boston originally. But I've learned a ton of

Scott Benner 8:07
you let us down. Dave. Come on.

Speaker 1 8:09
I know, right. My wife is like, you know, what the hell this is. You know, I've learned about all this in school, like none of this makes any sense to what I've learned, like, was my whole education just so you know, she brought up questions again, the physician was just like, Yeah, I mean, you know, it is what it is just diet and exercise. I think at this point, they'd give me some fluids. My sugar was down to like 220 something. And I was like, so am I gonna go home on insulin? She's like, well, you're insulin naive. And I'm not really comfortable introducing insulin to an naive person. So Dave,

Scott Benner 8:48
tell me you got to go back one day and tell her she was medicine naive.

Unknown Speaker 8:54
My wife sent her a really nice email.

Scott Benner 8:56
I imagine also your I love, love, like, in the worst way, that your wife is now sitting in the room getting such bad information from a physician that she's questioning her education.

Speaker 1 9:07
Yeah, I mean, she was like, granted, you know, they didn't dive full on Intuit in school, but they obviously learned about it, but

Scott Benner 9:15
right on like, my point is, is that the doctor was saying something so opposite of what your wife read in a book that your wife's like, am I wrong? Like did I misunderstand all of that? Like, wow, hey, this is good. Yeah, Dave, I liked this story so far. Okay. When do you firebomb the clinic or do something it's just a setting letter, that's all you did. So

Speaker 1 9:36
we waited like, you know, I, you know, I got hair established and got my sugar in order and kind of, you know, got a grasp on things and, or as much as you can, and my wife was like, You know what it's time to, I'm gonna reach out to that physician because she had been going back and forth about it because she actually works at the same hospital. And then it just clicked on it. She's like, you know what, I'm sending that email. And I was like, I mean, It's a good email

Scott Benner 10:00
should. Your wife and my wife have a lot in common? She thought about it every day did she for hours at a time and plotted.

Speaker 1 10:10
The night that we came home, I, you know, I just went to bed. I was like, This is crazy. And she was up all night on her phone. Like I woke up for work in the morning, and she's still on her phone. She's like, I haven't found any studies. Like, I can't find anything. This doesn't make any sense.

Scott Benner 10:22
It wouldn't surprise me that if, if asked if my wife couldn't produce a list of everything I've ever done that was incorrect, wrong or questionable since the day she met me, like an actual, like an actual paper list or a book or something like that. Like if she like, throw a big tome up on the table and like, flip it open and go. Let me just flip back here to 1995. And yeah, that's, that's good. You ladies. They're like a dog with a bone sometimes. That's good. Good for your wife. That's excellent. Guys, just like, whatever. It's fine.

Unknown Speaker 10:53
Yeah, like, I guess we'll just figure it out.

Scott Benner 10:55
I don't care as fast. It's really amazing. So did the I have to know that the doctor respond?

Speaker 1 11:03
Yeah, it was actually, you know, because it was kind of okay. I understand. Sort of the not wanting to introduce insulin thing, right. Yeah. But at least give me like a referral to an endo or something. Right. So, you know, I think she in the email stated, like, you know, I'm only bringing this up to you so that you're aware for like future patients and future people, you might see that come through the door, like, at the very least, boot them out with a referral.

Scott Benner 11:30
I just say the part I love is like you the two of you're standing in front of, I don't know, a house or a car, we're talking about how it was built, or, you know, this house was built in 19. And she's saying everything, just not right. And then you say, Hey, I'd like to learn more about this. And she was, you're naive. You can't be involved yet. I love that using the word naive. In a scenario where she's so woefully, like misdirected. It just I don't know. It tickles me for some reason. I love Yeah, I

Speaker 1 12:00
think I think the response that we got was like, you know, thank you for the information. I'll definitely keep this in consideration for the future. Oh,

Scott Benner 12:08
yeah. Cuz she couldn't respond. I'm an asshole. Yeah. Because that's what she was like. It's just like, Oh, I really screwed this up. But well, anyway, it's really fantastic that you've reached out and, you know, gave her that information. I think it's wonderful. All right. So now, but at this point, do you feel like you have type two diabetes? Do you get past that you're not like didn't get hooked up in that, but you could have if you're gonna listen to her. If it wasn't for your wife's education, you'd have gone home and started dieting and exercising your 144 pound frame like that skiing all the time? Boy, you would have been managing type one diabetes, like it was before insulin.

Speaker 1 12:55
Yeah, I mean, they gave me You know, I had the Metformin and I was like, you know, do I want to take this? Yeah, I was like, you know, like, maybe I'll just take it before I go to the, you know,

Unknown Speaker 13:05
my primary care my endo refer or whatever. I just, you know, it's still sitting in my cabinet full. Yeah,

Scott Benner 13:11
I imagine. Okay, so you go to an endo, you get a good diagnosis. What kind of tech Did they give you?

Speaker 1 13:19
As funny? Yeah. So I got my C peptide was like point six actually went to primary care, because I had a little bit of a wait for my Endo. And, you know, I go in the room, and he's like, oh, yeah, you're deaf. You are, for sure. type one diabetic, you know, and he's baffled. He's like, I don't understand, like, you don't feel anything? And I'm like, no, like, I'm not making this up. I'm fine. And he's like, Well, we're gonna get you on what it is. He's like, we're gonna get you on a libre, blah, blah, blah. And he's talking to me, like, I know what this is. And like, What the hell is a libre? Yeah, you know, so we fill a prescription and stick it in my arm. And then, you know, I had it for about three weeks. And then I finally got in with my Endo. And she put me on a Dexcom. And the rest is kind of been history since then,

Scott Benner 14:04
you know, if I didn't know anything about diabetes, and you told me you were gonna give me put me on a libre, my closest connection would be like, from like, watching girls, little girls. Like, as my daughter grew up, like getting haircuts. I'd be like, Andre, are you going to color my hair differently? Like, I don't I don't you love it when they? That's why by the way, we made the diabetes, the defining diabetes series because people just use jargon. And they think, Well, I know what this means. So you know what it means. And it's just you know, don't you I love it when they're like, you know, first you're going to Bolus a person has never heard the word Bolus before in their life. You know, and you're like Bolus libre standard deviation? What? Yeah, I

Speaker 1 14:47
thought it would I thought I was picking up a snack at the pharmacy and like, is this kind of some kind of what is it libre?

Scott Benner 14:53
This must be for when my blood sugar gets something I don't know yet. Alright. So anyway, they put you on a Dexcom What a man of conviction. He's like, I'm gonna get you on a libre. Here's a Dexcom. So isn't that funny? I wonder if I wonder if in a doctor's mind, like our CGM is becoming like, like, you know the Kleenex thing like if you ask a person most people I mean if you if you're being clear you want to tissue right, but some people will use the brand name to describe something. I wonder if you use the word libre to say CGM. It's interesting. But yeah,

Speaker 1 15:27
I mean, it's funny because even now people like in my friends circles like what's you know, like, what's the thing in your arm? Oh, my God. It's a CGM. I look at like, what's the CGM? Like, what do you mean? You don't know what a CGM is?

Scott Benner 15:37
Are you not on Tiktok? Watching everybody argue about them? Come on. Let's go. Yeah, at this point, I believe everyone knows what a GLP one is. Most people have no idea what you're talking. I was somewhere the other day. I don't know how much you listen to this show. Dave. I am down 20 pounds on weego V. And it's a GLP one. So anyway, if somebody says to me, like, Hey, you look different. First, they asked me if I got my hair cut. I was like, This is it. I've never had this moment my whole life. They're like, did you get your hair cut? And I was like, it's it. It's gonna come up. I've lost weight. And I was like, I was like, No, I've lost weight. I might look different to you. Oh, my gosh, you do I can see it. I bought I was so excited. Because so many people have passed me by and not said anything. So I'm like hugging this person. Like this means a lot to me that you notice that? Meanwhile, she didn't notice she thought I got my haircut. But how did you do it? And I said, well, in all honesty, I'm using we go V and they go we go V and I'm like, yeah, it's a GLP one. And they're still staring at me. And I'm like, I guess everyone's not online the way I am. I was like, Okay, and so I'm explaining it to her and everything she like, that's fascinating. And you can see people off to the sides like listening with like half and you're like, What did you do? jotting it down. GLP one we spell that please. We want. And it was just really like, again, like I just thought, Oh, what is this thing I use? I've seen it in. I mean, I've seen people talking about on social media a lot. And I just jumped to the conclusion that everybody knows when this meanwhile, I would bet that nine out of 10 people have no idea what I'm talking about. But oh for sure. Yeah. So Dave, big shift at your age. And also I'm sorry, your you told me before we started recording and I need this information so I can tie some things together. You are about to have your first child. Yeah, October, October. Congratulations. Thanks. So you're very welcome. So this is my point is is that you made a baby? Not long after you were diagnosed. So your life seemed You don't seem like a guy who made a baby by mistake. Am I right about that? Correct? Yeah, this was planted. In my mind, Dave, you've been planning this for like three and a half years. So how close am I to be in? Right? Pretty close. Yeah. Okay. So you're, you've got a life. It's settled. It's planned out. There's none of this in your family. You know, you're as active as could be, you know, people who don't understand diabetes would never would never think of an active 160 pound person is having any kind of diabetes whatsoever. So I'm assuming it's a big shock. But how do you manage that shock? The contour next gen blood glucose meter is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. And it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now. For your meter through your insurance company. That's right. If you go to my link contour next one.com/juice box, you're gonna find links to Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid, Kroger, and Meijer. You could be paying more right now through your insurance for your test strips and meter than you would pay through my link for the contour next gen and Contour. Next One test strips in cash. What am I saying? My link may be cheaper out of your pocket than you're paying right now. Even with your insurance, and I don't know what meter you have right now. I can't say that. But what I can say for sure is that the contour next gen meter is accurate. It is reliable. And it is the meter that we've been using for years contour next one.com/juicebox And if you already have a contra meter and you're buying test strips doing so through the Juicebox Podcast link will help to support the show.

Speaker 1 19:39
Yeah, so it's funny My in laws are like you know, if anyone was gonna have type one diabetes, it's a good thing that it was you like you're so type A, you know, you're just going to get a handle on this thing right away. But I mean, I was very confused, you know, like, especially like I'm like, well I don't know anything about this. And then it's just like a huge change. And for a while, you know, we're going back and forth between like, do you have type two diabetes? Do you have type one diabetes? Like what's going on? What do we do? I always say that I'm fortunate enough, I guess if I was going to get it to have it at this point in my life, as opposed to having to grew up with it, because I just can't even imagine that it would be so difficult. But, you know, the change was a lot. But at the same time, you know, it wasn't terrible in terms of, you know, like, my diet didn't change that much. Like, you know, now I'm just counting carbs. And figuring this thing out slowly. My endo actually is the one that put me on to the podcast. And she was like, You need to listen to this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is like, more information than actually going to the appointment.

Scott Benner 20:52
Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Whoever your endo is. Yeah. No, she's

Unknown Speaker 20:55
great. Yeah.

Scott Benner 20:56
That's wonderful. I'm huge in Utah. I don't know if you realize that or not. I

Unknown Speaker 21:01
just found out about a year ago. Yeah.

Scott Benner 21:05
That's hilarious. What a great answer, Dave, you're not my favorite guest this week. I just found out about a year ago, when I was at a doctor's office, the doctor is going I need you to listen to a podcast that must have flipped out for half a second. You were like, wait, don't you tell me the stuff? Yeah,

Speaker 1 21:20
it's funny, too, because I don't even listen to blog prior to this. You know, I didn't even really listen to podcast. Well,

Scott Benner 21:25
welcome. And thank you, and thank you to her I sincerely. It feels nice to know that, that you put something together that made it into the hands of a physician who was comfortable enough to say, you should go listen to a podcast, like that really is a great feeling for me. So thank you. Yeah. Okay, so you, you leave the doctor's office and you go listen to a podcast, you're wearing a Dexcom Are you injecting or do you have a pump? Yeah,

Speaker 1 21:54
I'm MDI. So they were like, you know, you can go on a pump after X amount of time. And I just haven't gotten to it yet. You know, my agency now is 4.9. And I guess I've just been like, you know, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

Scott Benner 22:12
Yeah, no reason. I mean, if you're doing well, you're doing well. You don't I mean, I think that's fantastic. Do you feel like you're honeymooning at all? Oh,

Speaker 1 22:20
100% For sure. I'm just waiting for the day. You know where I'm not

Scott Benner 22:25
coming from work. You're like someone give me a pump? Exactly. I'm

Speaker 1 22:30
sure it's in the future. But no, my insulin needs aren't really too crazy right now. So Okay.

Scott Benner 22:36
All right. Well, yeah, I mean, I say do what you do, you know, and especially sounds like you're being successful with it at the end. I'm not speaking for you. Right. Where's your evidence yet?

Unknown Speaker 22:45
Yeah. 4.9

Scott Benner 22:47
Are you a low carb person? Are you just keeping really active so I'm

Speaker 1 22:51
definitely really active. So I've been in initially, I was admittedly afraid of carbs. I've gotten a lot braver with stuff now, but I would say, um, you know, I'm not going to Wendy's three times a week, but I have some carbs but nothing, I would say. Probably low carb.

Scott Benner 23:11
I love that. You picked Wendy's. Do you go to Wendy's once a week.

Unknown Speaker 23:13
I haven't met a Wendy's in a very long time.

Scott Benner 23:16
I haven't either. Can I tell you? I didn't like their nuggets. When I was younger. It turned me off to the whole place.

Unknown Speaker 23:22
I think that's fair.

Scott Benner 23:23
Thank you.

Speaker 1 23:24
Let's see. I was traveling recently, and I was in the airport. And it was pretty limited food selection. And I was like, Well, I guess I can try this croissant. And that was a big mistake.

Scott Benner 23:36
It's the biggest Bolus you've ever given yourself. I'm six units. Okay, that's a band. That was a large one. Yeah, well, did you get your weight back? Where's your weight sitting?

Speaker 1 23:48

155. Like I hover between 55 155 and 160. So yeah.

Scott Benner 23:53
So what's your this is off the top my head? I'm not doing any math. Does your Basal like, point six times? Are you like 1213 units today?

Speaker 1 24:04
Yeah, it's actually interesting as at, so I've been doing like 12 and then probably two weeks ago, I've been waking up in like the 60s in the high 50s. So I dropped it down to 10. Okay,

Scott Benner 24:17
so you really are honeymooning. That's good. I mean, good luck. Right. And as long as you can. Also, let's pause here for a second Dave so that people listening can absorb that. I just guessed your Basal insulin. Yeah, great. Okay, let it happen. Just let everybody go. Okay. I am listening to the right podcast. Without telling you how I did that. You know, at this point, honestly, I feel like it's, um, you ever drive home and realize when you get home, you don't know how you got there. Like, you know, if you weren't really paying attention, I might be at that point with diabetes at this point. I'm like, Oh, he's like 155 160s active is biggest Bolus is 6.8. Probably like 12 years. I don't even I must have looked like Rain Man figuring that out just now. What is anyone seen rain man at this point? I gotta get better.

Speaker 1 25:10
You're gonna have job offers coming in pretty soon from endos all over the country. I can't

Scott Benner 25:15
afford to take the job. I'm making a podcast. Very successful. I'm sorry. Okay, so your life is. Let me ask you, how has it changed? Like, because you've laid out how your management is. And so how's your day to day changed?

Speaker 1 25:32
I think that it's just become a little bit more inconvenient. You know, there's a lot of timer set. You know, I Pre-Bolus Pretty much every meal. It's funny. Actually. My wife refuses to eat dinner until my 15 minute alarm dings. Regardless of what I tell her to do. I'm like, you can just eat the food. You don't have to wait. 15 minutes. It's really okay. Okay,

Scott Benner 25:56
can I tell you? I don't want to cut you off. I find that so lovely. It almost brought a tear to my eye. You don't have diabetes? No, I'm being serious. That's really wonderful. Good for her. He's great. Yeah, okay. I'm sorry. So a little more inconvenient. Got a lot of time or set, but your hand like you're handling it like an adult that was met with a problem?

Speaker 1 26:19
For sure. Yeah. I mean, there's the repercussions of not getting a handle on it, you know, are terrible. So have you think I live with like this giant fear, because I have such good control of it. But you know, it's always in the back of your mind.

Scott Benner 26:34
Yeah, but you don't sound like you have any psychological impact either, though, like you're not bugging out or depressed or anything, right? No, definitely

Speaker 1 26:41
not. I mean, maybe in the beginning, I was kind of like, what, like, how did this happen to me? You know, like, what did I do? And I'm like, I didn't really do anything. I guess just happened.

Scott Benner 26:50
Right? Now. It's such a healthy decision to make. I mean, really is. I mean, I feel like you're showing that, you know, if you're healthy, if you're if you're mentally healthy to begin with, because there are some people who would be depressed already and like not, you know, not really being controlled those reactions, but if you're healthy to begin with it is the decision like, do I go why me and fall down a rabbit hole of despair? Or do I just say, Okay, next thing to conquer. And, you know, let's, let's get to it. That's really, really terrific. And I guess my next question is, you were already on a path to making a baby. Was there any second thoughts? Like, did you go like, today's the day we're gonna try and your wife like, got cold feet or anything like that? Are you? No, no,

Speaker 1 27:33
no, but I mean, I It's funny, and we're like, we talking? Well, what if he's a type one diabetic? Well, at least we have plenty of practice, but hopefully not. That's

Scott Benner 27:45
That's it. That's the extent of it. Like if it happens, it happens. No, like, was it a very, I don't know how to ask this. Are you very religious person? Are you like it's up to God? Like, no, no, no. Okay. Wow. All right. Cool. Do you think you'll have the baby tested when he or she is old enough to see if they have markers for type one?

Speaker 1 28:07
Oh, yeah, for sure. I, you know, in discussing this with my doctors, you know, we're like, how do we get here? And they're like, you know, well, have you had like, COVID or any other viruses? Well, weirdly enough, like at, I think it was 31. I got hand foot and mouth from a doctor. I work with

Scott Benner 28:26
Dave. Dave. That's what Arden had before she was diagnosed. That's crazy. Yeah, it's actually not it's an incredibly common virus that leads to a type one diagnosis. Oh,

Speaker 1 28:39
there. Yeah. We were like it's either that or I've had COVID I think three times. So we're like it's either that

Scott Benner 28:45
I've also been eating COVID on my cereal. Hey, I think legally you're allowed to at least with a white glove slap that doctor across the face when you see them? I've been looking for Sir, you sir. have given me taekwondo. But you had you obviously you had the markers already. But hand foot mouth and I don't understand the the mechanics behind it. But if you if you go back in the podcast, there's an episode. I hate googling myself. But hold on a second. Just because it feels a little douchey I don't know if you realize that or not. To go to your own website and go let me just find the information we need. The I'll just give me a second. So prevention bio comes on to talk about the plasma mob. I'm back on episode 452. Really lovely episode the gentleman that came on. Fantastic. They have actually recently sold to miss a blob to plus a mob excuse me put them before the pay. By the way, there shouldn't be M's and peas and z's that close to each other in words, but they the drug made it through FDA approval, and it was sold to Sanofi Sanofi. Sorry, it's a French company. I know people that work there some people say Sanofi some people say Sanofi. Anyway, this drug is to slow down the onset of your diabetes, of type one. But in that conversation in 452, he spent a fair amount of time talking about how he'd like to work on a vaccine for hand Foot Mouth. Because Because he said, I think if we can stop hand foot and mouth, which is called coxsackievirus, that we would slow down the onset of type one diabetes. Anyway, it's a very emotional like, I It's another episode where I was, we be listening to it. As somebody from the company, Lenny Ramos, she came back on an 842 to talk about tz old twins. This is so ridiculous. But to put them out was FDA approved, they changed the name to sell it as tz old. But they're two great episodes if you want to hear more about it. But anyway, my point is, is that I'm Francisco Leone, he's a physician, I think he was the co founder of prevention bio. And the way he talked about it was uplifting. He's like, you know, maybe we can't just cure type one, but maybe we could stop things that send people into a diagnosis. And I was like, oh, it's really a, like a cool way of thinking about it. Anyway, he made me think that and you and my daughter had the same virus before you were diagnosed. So yeah, yeah. Now, you know, double in the club.

Unknown Speaker 31:37
Like who gets hand foot and mouth when in their 30s?

Scott Benner 31:40
Yeah, I was gonna say, Man, that's a kid's thing. Yeah, like my fingernails

Unknown Speaker 31:43
and toenails are popping up. Like, what is this?

Scott Benner 31:46
Lightweight, they can't handle a little coxsackievirus. Yeah, my daughter was. She wasn't even two when she got it. And the reason that we the first way, we kind of started sniffing out that something was odd. Well, before we understood diabetes, or that Shiva was exhibiting signs of type one is that the hand Foot and Mouth felt like it returned. And at the time, the best that like the oh my god, my kids are so old. I don't know the word doctors for children. Pediatrician, thank you, Jesus. You guys are listening to me. And I can't think of the word pediatrician. You might want to go find out if there's another podcast you can find try. Try two bears one cave or something. But anyway, you know, he found it so strange. Like I remember him kind of like looking up into his head going this doesn't make sense. Like this isn't a thing you get twice. And now Now you wonder like when she got it the first time? Did her immune system go after the Coxsackie? Or did it go like right for her pancreas? Like, you know, and did the Coxsackie not get dealt with? And then maybe it was quelled and brought back or did she really get it again? Or? We have no idea, obviously. But yeah, that's how that happened. And then just right after her second birthday, she started like wasting away. And it it really did take us a long time to figure it out. The doctors at the time. I don't think I talked about this too much on the podcast, but they think we got her to the hospital like maybe 24 hours before she was gonna go into a coma.

Unknown Speaker 33:20
Oh my gosh, yeah. So

Scott Benner 33:24
anyway, nobody tells you about that when you're having sex trying to make a baby. This is fun. And we're gonna buy a crib and a stroller.

Unknown Speaker 33:33
CGM? Yeah,

Scott Benner 33:34
they also don't tell you, you're probably not gonna have sex much after you have a baby. But they really should tell you that, because then you wouldn't do it. But anyway, I don't want to ruin the surprise that's coming. One day, you're gonna be like, I like the wall. This Chris Hardwick he's fun. Is this the time we would have usually been having sex?

Unknown Speaker 33:55
Think I'm gonna go to bed? Yeah,

Scott Benner 33:57
I'll see you in 20 years. We'll split up the money at the end. You know? My goodness. Anyway, don't let me paint a picture of marriage and being a parent is terrible. It's the best experience of my life. How involved is your wife with your diabetes, a little nun? She just supportive.

Speaker 1 34:16
She said, I have this really great habit of giving myself compression lows in the night and sleeping through all of the alarms in the world. So you know, actually, you know, she's got the she's follows me on her cell phone. Anytime I'm out of range, I get a text like hey, like, are you okay? Hey, like what's going on? Like we missed? We missed with that. Pre-Bolus I think I was feeling brave a few weeks ago and decided to go for some pizza, which didn't end well for me. And I woke up at three o'clock in the morning to an injection and my butt cheek. So she's very involved in the diabetes management.

Scott Benner 34:53
Was she giving you insulin and glucagon? Yes, she's

Unknown Speaker 34:55
getting the insulin okay. Yeah, I guess that's difficult. Yeah,

Scott Benner 35:00
I wasn't sure like Were you having a seizure? Or were you like,

Unknown Speaker 35:02
that was just 400.

Scott Benner 35:05
So she so a couple things. So she's now kicking you going rollover you by the way, Dave. I could be your father, because I'm very practiced at this. And you're using the G six it sounds like

Speaker 1 35:15
I actually now I'm using libre three

Scott Benner 35:19
by three and you're getting compression loads with it.

Unknown Speaker 35:22
Sometimes Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 35:25
So she's kicking you to roll over off the sensor. Were

Unknown Speaker 35:28
you wearing it? Back on my arm.

Scott Benner 35:30
And you're getting a compression low. How do you sleep Dave?

Speaker 1 35:35
I don't know. I guess I'm just all over the place. It's gonna say usually I'm asleep on my back and then I wake up on my side. It's hard to keep track of what Arvidson

Scott Benner 35:45
roll over roll Artin rollover. Get off the sensor on him.

Unknown Speaker 35:52
Yeah, I woke up was like what are you doing? She's like your blood sugars. I'm like,

Scott Benner 35:56
did you think that your your love life was taking a weird turn at first?

Unknown Speaker 36:00
What is stinging in my

Scott Benner 36:04
you have to ask my permission first.

Speaker 1 36:07
She's I'm really sorry. I had to give you insulin last night. Like trust me. I felt it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 36:12
I'm aware. You're not great at it. I've lost my touch. I don't think I'm good at giving injections anymore. I would probably be the last person you'd want to deal with at this point. I'm sure I could get back in practice pretty quickly. But

Speaker 1 36:25
yeah, let one of my roommates from college do it. My long acting and it was like the scene from Pulp Fiction.

Scott Benner 36:34
You were probably or you were Oh my god. I'm having trouble with words today. All right. Let's go over it. There's an actress. She's married to Ethan Hawke. Her name is Uma Thurman. Yeah, yes. She's in Pulp Fiction. laying on the ground. Do you think people haven't seen by the way, Dave? I don't know where you stand. Pulp Fiction is. It would be one of the five movies in the conversation for if I could only take one movie to a desert island with me easily. Yeah, um, Pulp Fiction is high up there in that in that conversation. So she's Odede. Right. She thought she did coke but she did heroin. She started heroin, I think. Yeah, Gerhard stops. John Travolta, which I know you're like John Travolta. Yes, John Travolta takes her to his drug dealers house for some reason. If you haven't seen this, even just this scene, it's fantastic. And they have like an adrenaline needle. And the guy's pulling it out. And he's like, stick it in your heart. And Travolta is like standing over top of her like, anyway, it's fantastic. You're saying, This is what happened to you? Except in your ass?

Unknown Speaker 37:43
Yeah, as a side of my leg.

Scott Benner 37:48
Had she ever given you one before, like, would have led me immediately to go? How often does this happen?

Unknown Speaker 37:55
Not often.

Scott Benner 37:57
Imagine she's mad. Like you're like, I don't use much insulin at all. But it turns out you're using like 12 units more a day than you think as your wife's injecting while you're sleeping.

Speaker 1 38:05
Yeah, why am I going through these pens so fast? What happened here last

Scott Benner 38:09
night? I don't remember any of us. Needles everywhere. And she's July, August, September, October. She's five months pregnant. So. Yeah, I know. Oh, yeah. She must be thrilled with you and your beeping. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 38:23
I guess good practice for the future.

Scott Benner 38:25
Is that how you're selling it?

Speaker 1 38:28
Like, should we get like, you know, one of those diabetes alarms that goes in the side of the bed that awakeness she's like, No, we don't need things that are going to be louder in this house.

Scott Benner 38:36
May I make a suggestion? Yeah. glucose.

Unknown Speaker 38:42
Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 38:43
I have one on my desk here. And I just looked over, now it's green means Arden's blood sugars in a range that I find like that, like acceptable and valuable. It's like, I don't know. It's like 100 bucks. I think I have a I think I have a link like an affiliate link, but I don't really use it. Because yeah,

Speaker 1 39:00
because we actually have a hatch on the bedside table and not like wakes me up without a problem every day.

Scott Benner 39:08
Yeah. glucose.com It's just this really cool thing. I think you have to have Dexcom I don't know if that works with libre or not, if I'm being honest. Anyway, it's cool, like uses your Dexcom data. And as you leave different ranges that you set up, it turns colors. Oh, yeah. And if you get low, it's red. And then if you get too low, it flashes red. And I obviously it's not going to wake you up. It doesn't make any noise. But I find it. I have one in my bedroom. And I find it really valuable because if I open my eyes at night, and I find myself wondering about Arden's blood sugar, I don't have to like wake myself up enough to open the phone and then find the app etc. which I know sounds like such a first first world problem. I don't have to swipe up on Like, Dave, you know, because it's it's a hassle. Obviously, that's not that much of a hassle. But you look over and you kind of just see the color glowing and it's green and you think green. Alright, go back to sleep. You kind of doesn't break your sleep the same way. Yeah. And even in the house. Like, you know how I was talking earlier about how you can like, drive somewhere and not know, you know that you're not remember making any of the turns or anything. There's a couple of them in my house. And as I wander through, I think subconsciously I see them, but I don't focus on them. And then like, they just go, Ooh, is that red? And then it makes me open my phone, like Arden's off to college, and I'll be like, Hey, your blood sugar looks a little low, and she'll be like, I just ate something like, okay, cool. And that's it. It's really, it's a great little idea, that thing. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 40:45
and it doesn't sound like a tornado alarm.

Scott Benner 40:47
Yeah. You know what, if I think of it, I'll put a link in the show notes to it. If you guys are interested in checking it out. I think I make like, $3 Every time you buy one or something like that, I don't honestly know. But anyway, but Okay, so your wife is helping like that. That's pretty cool. Was she right about the amount of insulin she drew up? Or was she like, eyeball on it? Or?

Speaker 1 41:08
Yeah, now she was right. Because it's, you know, every time we Pre-Bolus Or like, we're counting car, it's a big discussion, right? You know, it's like, Okay, we're gonna have pasta passes one to 18 I'm gonna do you know, blah, blah, blah, units, like four units, whatever. So she's very in tune to those conversations. So when I'm, you know, that was a pizza hit me like four hours later. Yeah. And she's like, okay, he's correction should be this. He's at this. So like, she's very, she might as well have type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 41:37
She really gets it. Yeah, that's excellent. I mean, honestly, this is the time where most people sleep a lot before they have a baby, but okay. You know, have you listened to the episodes about like, fat and protein rises?

Speaker 1 41:50
Yeah. And, you know, unfortunate now, like I said, we talked about like, I'm still honeymooning. But, you know, I'm just waiting for the day when I'm, you know, not having any free meals and like, alright, steak, like gonna count is count that.

Scott Benner 42:04
Yeah. Oh, no, we're all of a sudden six units is like, not nearly the largest Bolus you've used and stuff. We went to the movies. The other night, Arden was home for like two days. And I don't know how the rest of you live your lives. But that spider verse movie came out, we were like, We're going to the movies. And she tried to stack going out to lunch with her friends, and then coming home and then going right to the movies with us. And like it, like she missed at the restaurant, like pretty, like, massively. So we're like putting these big boluses on as we're approaching the, the, the theater trying to get ahead of it. And we just, we just didn't do well. Like we're just we're kind of like, I don't know how to explain this. Like when she's here with us, there's a way we manage, right? When she's away at school, there's a way we manage that we're not as involved in obviously, almost not at all. And then she came home. And there's like this little part of her who like jokingly, like will sit down to eat and she'll like slide her phone across the table and be like, hey, go big guy. You must miss this. Right. And once you Bolus for dinner, I really think she just honestly wants a break. You know? Yeah. And so we somehow in the middle, like, didn't give each other a break. And like, I don't know, like she was kind of involved. I think we both thought the other person was looking at it. But anyway, my point is, is that by the time she left that restaurant and went to a movie theater, she must have easily had 40 units of insulin maybe over like over like the last couple of hours. But she went to like some crappy restaurant and then she's like, had a Slurpee. I don't know if that you know, you're from Boston. You know what it is? Yeah. At the movies, so just sugar and water, and cookie dough bites, cheese. Anyway, here's the real moral of that story. That movie is terrific. Really, really good. If you if you have not seen that spider verse film, go see the first one then go see the second one. Because that's crazy that it's animated. And it's that good. Anyway, Dave, what do you want to talk about? Do you have a thought? Like a you want to talk about in your notes? You said weird diagnosis, but talked about that. sticking up for yourself, which you obviously did, but what else you got?

Speaker 1 44:19
Yeah, I think that was the biggest thing, right, is that everyone has been in terms of like my care team. There's just been so confused. And like, this is so uncommon, and like this is just crazy. Like, you know, I've been practicing medicine for X amount of years and never seen anything like this. So I think just kind of getting it out there and like sharing the story with people. I mean, who knows, maybe you could do some good. Yeah, we have friends that are you know, like urgent care, primary care nurse practitioners and physician assistants. And, you know, we told them this during like, Oh, like this is always going to be something I'm thinking about. People come in so

Scott Benner 44:59
hey, the One thing I've been wondering I didn't ask you about is there's no, like after you got on insulin, you couldn't see. Oh, I didn't feel well. I didn't realize it was no change. Yeah,

Speaker 1 45:12
I think maybe, you know, like, I think about it, and I probably don't drink as much water as I used to

Scott Benner 45:21
be just like, Oh, I'm hydrating, like they talk about.

Speaker 1 45:23
Yeah, you know, I'm gonna skier Yeah, we're gonna go on this big hike, like, you know, I gotta get water. But now it's like, I was thinking about it the other day. And like, I've only had like, you know, two Hydroflask today, and it's five o'clock in the afternoon. Whereas maybe I would have had five or six.

Scott Benner 45:39
Wow. But no, like, increased mental clarity, energy, like nothing like that.

Speaker 1 45:46
I think no, I was actually afraid to get my blood sugar and check and be tired. You know, it's like, well, I'm not running at 400 anymore. So I'm probably going to be deep. But

Scott Benner 45:55
it's like, I'm optimal around 400 with a 13. A one C?

Speaker 1 45:59
Yeah. Everyone's like, no wonder you can't sit down your blood sugar's 480.

Scott Benner 46:03
So that would be the opposite. If your blood sugar was high, and you were feeling it, it would it would slap you and shut you off.

Speaker 1 46:09
Yeah, my nurse in the emergency department. He was a type one. And he was like, You must feel awful. Like when we were walking back to the room, and I was like, No, I feel good music. Oh, he's like, I'm type one. And when I'm like, above 220 Like, I just start feeling horrible.

Scott Benner 46:25
Yeah, yeah. That's coming, Dave. I'm sorry. I, if it doesn't call me back and be like, Hey, I've had diabetes now from because we might want to get you like, in some research, like, we might like, have to let the government like take over your life and check your body and stuff like that. You would give yourself up to research right there. Oh, for sure. Thank you. Very nice. We'll take that as illegal. Yes, later. Well, that's really fascinating. Like, I thought for certain you were gonna say no, you know, what ended up happening was I was just accustomed to how crappy I was feeling. And then when I went backwards with my blood sugar, I realized what I was going through, but nothing. Oh, yeah. I

Speaker 1 47:00
mean, I go through the question list, like where I was with my primary care? And he's like, No, this and this isn't like, no, no, no. And then he, you know, stops and asked me all the same questions again. Oh,

Scott Benner 47:14
then the only thing I can think they asked you is How frequently do you go skiing?

Unknown Speaker 47:20
At least four days a week? That's

Scott Benner 47:21
maybe it's it, maybe you just the activity was just put your blood sugar was still high? I don't know. Really doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 47:29
Yeah, it's and then, you know, then you reopen the, you know, now we know I have diabetes, and I'm taking insulin, and now I'm still doing all these things. And it's like, how do these activities affects my blood sugar? And it's just, it's crazy. Like, you know, hiking is totally opposite of what my sugar does when I'm skiing.

Scott Benner 47:46
If I don't want to go down a weird rabbit hole with you, but since you're in Salt Lake, if the Miracle on Ice happened there in the Olympics, and I think it didn't, then we're gonna call this the miracle on snow.

Unknown Speaker 48:01
But I know my cursor was in that movie. Wait, hold on

Scott Benner 48:04
a second. Keep your weird thoughts on check for a second. Wait, are you so that happened in Lake Placid? New York, dammit. All right. I still called the Miracle on stuff. Who knows? But your cousin was like an extra or like a character.

Speaker 1 48:18
He played Jaco Callahan. He was a cute like one of the main characters.

Scott Benner 48:23
Okay. I'm going to IMDb

Unknown Speaker 48:29
Yeah, Michael made nuda.

Scott Benner 48:32
Yet by the way, your last name is ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker 48:37
Should see how people spell it.

Scott Benner 48:39
I don't even imagine that they get anywhere near it. Like you're saying if I scroll I see Steve Gutenberg is the right movie, right? All cast and crew. I'm scrolling. The Stealth errs great for the podcast. Why don't they just do a find what is wrong with me? I'm such an idiot. So is it the only movie he's ever been in? I

Speaker 1 49:07
think after that he was in a few others, but nothing like big like that. That was the biggest role that he had.

Scott Benner 49:12
Was he trying to be an actor?

Speaker 1 49:14
So you're ready for this? All right. He played college hockey, had to take an acting class for an art credit. And he really liked it and his key graduated his professor call them and was like, Hey, there's this hockey movie happening. Like you should go try out for it. And he was like, oh, okay, like I was gonna try for this movie, whatever. And he got the role.

Scott Benner 49:35
That's insane. Except, except this wrong movie. He was in miracle.

Unknown Speaker 49:44
Oh, yeah. Well, that's it.

Scott Benner 49:48
I can't wait for him to hear this.

Unknown Speaker 49:51
Well, Miracle on Ice is what they called it. Well,

Scott Benner 49:54
it just says miracle. The Miracle on Ice was the actual Oh, is this the movie of the thing? Okay, I'm gonna let that go as a pass for you. Okay, because the event was at Lake Placid was called Miracle on Ice. That's what they call it like in the news, but miracle. Oh, wow, that's crazy. I see him. Yeah, handsome fella. I was that pretty. I'd be in a movie to Michael. I guess he could skate because you guys are from Boston. Right? So, yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 50:25
played hockey for University of Maine. Oh, good for him.

Scott Benner 50:27
That's really cool. What's he doing now?

Speaker 1 50:29
He was training dogs in Special Forces dogs and helicopter. Rescue Mission. Yeah,

Scott Benner 50:39
they ended up being in three movies. Miracle. The other ones are I do. dirtbags and surfer dude. surfer

Unknown Speaker 50:47
dude fits.

Scott Benner 50:50
The hair. does have nice long hair. Okay, well, that was an interesting sidebar. All right, well, now we're just going to call this Salt Lake miracle or something like that. Who knows? You know, it's I should throw a bone to the Utah fans once in a while. That would be nice. Do you know Do you know how that ended up being? Like, when you told me you were in Salt Lake, I have to do the math on my head because you're either part of the church or you just live in Utah. But I have a ton of Latter Day Saints fans.

Unknown Speaker 51:21
Oh, no. I'm not part of the church. Now. I

Scott Benner 51:23
figured it out. Because you only have one baby. And you're in your 30s Yeah, exactly. I've been a real slacker. If you were, there's no way wrong. Yeah, they would have been like, you gotta go. So how do you really screw it up? Okay. There's a bad joke in there. I'm not gonna make but anyway. Yes. So it turns out, it's just a really tight knit community. So when somebody in the church figured out the podcast was valuable, it just really got around. And I'm hoping one day for there to be a statue of me and Utah somewhere. is plenty of room after I get a little thinner, then we can start commissioning that statue. Anyway, anything we haven't talked about, like, at all? Let make sure I'm not missing anything that I can think of. David, you're very chill. Thanks. Are you really from Boston? How long have you been out of Boston?

Speaker 1 52:16
A while. So Boston, North Carolina. I was in North Carolina for like eight years. And then we moved out here about like, a little over two years ago. Did. Lawson still comes out when we're driving now.

Scott Benner 52:30
Have you ever said this to your wife? If I don't teach him this lesson? Who is going to?

Speaker 1 52:35
Yeah, she's like, you know, when you go on this podcast, you can't swear. I was like, Okay, you gotta

Scott Benner 52:41
we got it. I was editing a show the other day from with a lady from Australia. Her episode is going to be called Stuart Pitt. In case you're wondering. And she cursed so much. It was lovely. I started cursing. I was like, Ah, so relaxed.

Unknown Speaker 52:55
The sign of intelligence.

Scott Benner 52:58
I well. I'm gonna go with that, for sure. But seriously, do you think moving down to North Carolina? Did it chill you out? Is it your wife? Or do you meet your wife?

Speaker 1 53:10
In North Carolina? I think yeah. It's a different way of life down there. You know, people are very friendly. You know, you can't No one's that you can't run around like a Masshole being abrasive to everyone. You know, they drive slow that walk slow, like,

Scott Benner 53:26
just get used to driving. It makes me mental. When I Oh, you

Speaker 1 53:30
have you ever been to Utah is home to the worst drivers in the world? Oh, no, I

Scott Benner 53:34
didn't realize that. It's terrifying. I, because my son got out of college. And then I don't know if I've probably told this before. But in my life, I had been to Georgia one time, Cole had played baseball there when he was like, 16 for some like scouting thing. And that's the only time I'd ever been there. And then suddenly, about two years ago, Arden started talking about going to school in Georgia. And we're like, Okay, that seems so far away. Like, you know, like, the whole time you're raising a kid with type one, you're like, Well, maybe she'll just go to like the school across the street or, you know, offer somebody to go to the community college in town. It's like, at that time, she said, I'm either gonna go to Chicago, Manhattan, or Georgia. And we were like, no, like, no, there's just no good answer in there. You know, like, these things are far away their travel problems, like even though New York's close, like getting into the cities, not like, I don't know, if anybody's ever done that. It's not that easy. And so, she ends up picking Georgia, and then my son graduates from college, like literally gets his first job in the world in Atlanta. And now suddenly, I've been to Georgia like seven times. And I you people can't drive like I don't know another way to put it. It's terrible. The worst is South Carolina. Oh my gosh, if I'm if I'm putting them in order Here's my message to the people South Carolina. You can change lanes. Okay, that's my message them. Here's my message to the people who live right around Atlanta. You people are out of your fucking minds. I saw the last time I visited my son. In a three day visit, I sought to hit and run accidents in Atlanta. Oh, yeah. One of them. An SUV, drove over the back of a small car and kept going. And, and a mile up the road. I saw a police officer pulled over. So I did the obvious thing. I pulled over we were stuck in like construction traffic. The story is not important. But we were just stop and go traffic. And this person wanted to change lanes. And instead of changing a lane literally caught the back of the car with the front of the tire and their car was lifted enough. He drove up over the trunk. And he saw us I mean God I say he got blood had to have been a guy right. And like it found a little slot in the in the traffic and like shot up eight spots, and just drove away from it. And we were still in stop and go traffic. There's a car that he just ran over eight slides back and he just keeps going. So I pull over get the cop. I get. I have to admit the internet has made I got out the car with my hands off. I was like, Hi. He didn't care less about me. I'm like, I just witnessed the hit and run. accident. And that's the car that hit. I'm like pointing I'm like we can still see it. It's that SUV right there. And he goes, Yeah, man. That's not why I'm here. Have a good day. And I'm like, what he goes I'm here for traffic control for the construction. And I went what? head around that he goes, then he sees on actually concerned. He goes, Yeah, I'm sure they have insurance. They'll take care of it. I'm like, I'm like, sir. That SUV right there? You see it right? And he goes, Yeah, I'm like, that car just drove over the back of a vehicle and fled the scene. You can go get him. That was he didn't care. Anyway, I don't know what's going on in Atlanta. You people can't drive. That's it's just it's a mess. Like a real mess. The idea of filling the space in front of you is lost in the south to begin with that I don't understand at all that, but South Carolina might be the worst.

Speaker 1 57:35
Oh, when you come out to Utah, I will report back. Some rankings change.

Scott Benner 57:39
I love the people. Everyone's lovely. Just you guys. Like you just kind of come to the northeast for like six months and drive. But I can't tell you like going around Washington, like on the beltway at night. It feels like you're in a NASCAR race. It really does. And you're left one Oh my You're like I can't take my eyes off the road. My hands off this. We got to lean into these turns. We got to accelerate through these times. People are going like it's just and those skills like I'm not saying you strive like that. I'm saying those skills translate to other things. And I don't know the same thing goes by the way. Like if I went on a beach vacation once and we were at this kind of like all inclusive thing where they came around asked you if you wanted something to drink? And I was like, Oh, I would I would like this. Thank you. 20 minutes later, I said to my wife, where is my drink? She's like, why don't like it's been 15 minutes. And then 20 minutes goes by and it's a half an hour later. And I'm out of my mind. People doing what is happening. She comes back so lovely. Hey, how are you? Here's your drink. And I like Kelly's like, calm down. I'm like, calm down.

Unknown Speaker 58:52
I don't even want it now.

Scott Benner 58:55
We went to a restaurant in Georgia the other day. We're getting ready to pick it up from college. And like we got down there a couple days early. And Kelly and I are just kind of chilling out like we don't relax enough. The story might play might paint that picture. But we got there a couple days early to help her get packed up, move some stuff into storage, and we were just really going to try to relax. And we did. I only took like four or five business calls for the podcast while we were there. And still oversaw the management of the Facebook page. But I was relaxing. And we get up one day to go to lunch. And we're finished lunch and we go back to the hotel. And I said to Kelly, it just took us two hours to eat lunch. And it wasn't because we were chilling out it was because of how slow everything moves. I swear to you, I don't understand, like, like around here you're eating it. Like you're still eating and the waitress is like here's the check no pressure but you know, get the hell out of here. You're taking that space. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I would love it but it sounds like it wore off on you kind of nicely. Do you have Appreciate it now. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:01
yeah, for sure. My life's a lot less stressful.

Scott Benner 1:00:05
Except for the diabetes, except you have type one diabetes now. Should I try this? Do you think she should go to the south and beat myself into submission? Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:00:13
go on like a sabbatical for a few years. Because you know, you, you show up there, right. And everyone knows you're not from there. Oh, I would imagine. Yeah. And then they're, like, really taken aback. They're like, I needs to chill the fuck out.

Scott Benner 1:00:27
You mean, like, because we crossed the street when the little hand says don't cross and I'm like, There's nothing coming. Why would I not go?

Speaker 1 1:00:34
Yeah, like driving around like a maniac are walking like a maniac talking like,

Scott Benner 1:00:39
the seven people at a corner. There's not a car in sight. The little thing says, Don't walk. And I'm looking at him. Like, what are we doing? Across the street? This is ridiculous. You know, right. Like, we're all just standing here for no reason whatsoever. They don't seem like even aware of it. Like, oh, the hand says don't walk, I'll stand here till the hand tells me otherwise. And I'm like, walking guy, I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:03
can't walk. Right here.

Scott Benner 1:01:05
I'm like, here, I'll tell you a secret. When people stop for me when I'm crossing the street in the South. They do it because it's just what they do. And I waved to them. Because in my mind, I'm like, what a gracious thing this person has done for me. I'm like, thank you. And they look at you like, why are you waving to me? And I'm like, you stopped while I was in the road? How lovely of you. Thank you. What a wonderful person. Meanwhile, my wife's like I you know, it's cool if you keep waving at it, but I don't think they expect that. I was like, oh, oh, this is just what they do. That's fine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:01:43
People would think me at my at my job to be like, thank you. And I'm like, why are you thinking I'm doing my job? Like, that's why I'm here.

Scott Benner 1:01:52
Right? Well, here's the underbelly of this thinking, if I'm being honest with you. I think people in the Northeast keep the world moving. Like, like, we work at a different pace than a lot of the rest of you. Like I before we got on here. I was telling Dave a story about how I was working till like midnight last night on the podcast. And I had this a file had to go through a process before I could move on. So I had like this 20 minute wait. So I went and sat with my wife for like, 20 minutes in bed. And then I fell asleep. And my eyes opened at 330 to the thought, oh my God, I didn't put the episode up for today. I got out of bed, woke myself up, recorded five more minutes of audio, stitch the episode together the rest of the way and put it online. And then I couldn't go back to sleep till like six in the morning because I was like wide awake after that. I'm certain if I lived in South Carolina, I would have thought I'll pull up later. Oh, yeah, but not me. I would never do that. I'm like, No, like when we went away to see art and for to pick her up, bring her back and all that stuff. We actually stitched a couple of days on the beginning of the trip, we slid into Atlanta and saw my son for like 48 hours went to a Braves game. They were playing the Phillies, I wouldn't just go to a Braves game. And although let me say this really, I can't believe I'm admitting this out loud. Really great. Experiencing a game at Brave state at that brave stadium is really, really great. Anyway, so my son slipped over to Chicago where my daughter's gone to college, I think I'm supposed to say hung out there a little bit and, and came home. But in order to do that, I had to prep two weeks of the podcast and and post it ahead of time. So for 10 days before we left on the trip, I did like three and a half weeks worth of work. And I never left this room like for for a week and a half. And I never thought twice about that. Like it didn't even occur to me that that's not a thing you would do like I'm sure most people would be like just let the podcast be awful week. It's why you're losers. It's why I'm winning and you'll lose. I gotta move, man. Hey, you're so till now? I can't even tell you from Massachusetts.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:14
Yeah, don't even sound like it right?

Scott Benner 1:04:16
No, you're so chill. Is everybody comes out in traffic as in form of yelling, where do you actually get irritated?

Speaker 1 1:04:23
Oh, it's like all the things. You know, like if I had like, I'm like, open the sunroof and throw a handful of change out of a bad guy just did.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
There's no way most people know what you're talking about. So a woman was tailgating me on the way down to Georgia. So I washed my windshield so we'd get on her windshield. Murderous. Would I shoot a rocket at or if I had one? I don't think so. But can you promises we're going 85 miles an hour and she's eight inches from Me and I'm like, oh back her up by getting her windshield wet. So I did it. She backed up because obviously she it took her attention away for a second. And she's like, you know, instead of driving like Mario Kart, she was like she was obviously from the northeast, by the way, she had a different license plate. And she backed off, cleared her windshield, and then immediately flew back up on us again. Yeah, so my wife goes, my wife's like, Don't do it again. I'm like, Oh, we're definitely doing it again. So we did it again. She backed up again. On the second time, she figured out what was happening. Oh, and it pissed her off. And I was so delighted that she was angry.

Speaker 1 1:05:41
Yeah, that was the point, right? Like, get a reaction. I mean, I was beeping at someone the other day not turning right. And I was like, What is this guy doing? There's people crossing the street in the crosswalk my Oh,

Scott Benner 1:05:53
well, I have diabetes. These times going low. All right, I'm not going to tell the story of the time that we got cut off in traffic going to the Jersey Shore. And I threw a water bottle out of a convertible and squeezed in between the three inch gap in someone's back window that was down and then watch the water bottle bend in half, go through the gap explode water inside of the car. And that I felt like I won the Olympics. When I did. That everyone in the car was like, oh my god, like we've won something. And I won't also tell you that the person driving my car was a police officer. Then you get a free pass. Right? You do it every don't come here. If you don't live here, you're not gonna make it.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:45
The stories are true. You're an

Scott Benner 1:06:47
Idaho right now. You're like, I might move to New York. Don't worry. We're gonna eat you alive. But if you can make it then matter, respect. Yeah. My sister in law. First time she came in to visit us from Wisconsin. She'd really never been out of Wisconsin. I picked her up at Newark. And we went out in the parking lot. I know, she won't mind me telling her this, I think. And there's a hotel and then in the Newark airport parking lot. It's maybe 12 or 15 storeys high. And she goes, that's the tallest building I've ever seen. was like, Well, when we get out of this parking lot, your mind is gonna catch on fire when you see the cityscape of New York across the river. And then we went out on the, on the turnpike with, you know, multiple lanes of traffic, everyone going 90 miles an hour, and she was having a full on panic attack in the car. She goes, I've never seen this many cars together at once. I was like, well get ready. Because they're all gonna try to kill us in the next couple of minutes. And we're gonna try to kill them. And it's gonna be fun. It's called commuting. Yeah, we're just trying to get from point A to point B. I don't know why there should be like, major psychological research on this part of the country. But especially like, I mean, Massachusetts rates so cold there. I don't even know how you exist. I'm not tough enough to live in Boston.

Speaker 1 1:08:19
Massachusetts is a cold, dark place. I

Scott Benner 1:08:24
couldn't do it. Like, I mean, I live here. And I'm still like, I don't know. I saw this thing the other day. There's, this is hippie looking guy. Like he could live in Salt Lake with a long beard. And he's like doing his like, Tiktok video and he's like, here's the things you're doing man that are like, messing you up. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna be doing all these. And sure enough, he's like, you know, like, can't get upset when you're driving, man. You can't and I'm like, Oh, I couldn't smoke enough weed to be as mellow as that guy. Everything he said you shouldn't do I had a really good argument in my head for why I think it's a good thing. Anyway, Dave, all right. Do we know what the baby's gonna be? Not that I'm asking you to say but do we know? Yeah, it's a boy. Oh, wow. Congratulations. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:09:14
hopefully he's a some sort of professional skier so I can retire early. Well,

Scott Benner 1:09:18
if this kid that you're related to is any indication, are you built like the kid that was in miracle? Yeah, similarly, yeah. Big strong boy. Yeah, I'd like to see your kid do a little Deewan something. Yeah, get you a little money off on college. Maybe for it. That's the goal, right? It's my only goal. Like my son's like, I'm gonna play as soon as the first time I sent that I'm gonna play baseball in college, but I heard was, Oh, I'm gonna save money. Yes, you are, meanwhile, doesn't work out that way. They have all the money that went into getting him to be a college baseball player. Is the money we saved when he went to college.

Speaker 1 1:09:55
Yeah, if he if he was if he has aspirations to play ice hockey are in big trouble such

Scott Benner 1:10:00
an expensive sport, right? The gear, the rink time, you have to part you have to pay for as well, right? Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:10:07
I grew up playing hockey and I took I took a lot of convincing for my parents to find let me do it. And now I absolutely understand why.

Scott Benner 1:10:15
No, and the parents are freezing because they stand outside and it's freezing cold the whole time, like I've been to. My son was working out at Penn once. Yeah, there was also a hockey game going on at the same time, but it was summertime. And the bathroom was in the rink. The bathroom closest to the field we were at was in the rink. And so I walked in there and as soon as you open the door, you're like, oh my god, it's freezing cold there, which is lovely if you're outside, but I looked at the parents. It's a summer month. They're dressed like it's wintertime. Yeah. Boots and jackets and like like, like long johns and watching their kids play ice hockey. And I was like,

Speaker 1 1:10:54
Yeah, I went to I went to boarding school in New York, primarily to play hockey. And we used to have morning practices. The rink was so cold that the water would freeze on your jersey if it spilled out of the water bottle. Yeah, exactly. That. Frozen jersey.

Scott Benner 1:11:10
The heats tough. That time I mentioned where my son went to Atlanta to do that workout is that where he actually and by the way, not where he met the coaches that wanted him to play in college. So he met two of them, but it didn't work out. But there was a day they played two. And after the SEC at the second game, I was I'm not joking, standing up next to a telephone pole. And I was rotating around the telephone pole to keep the sun from hitting me. That's how terrible it was. And humid on top of all that. And I'm just standing there like having a real like, parenting moment where I'm like, I think I should go get him. Like I don't like I don't think this is okay. You know, like, that's how hard it was. And the game ended. And I'm like, are you alright? He's okay, I'm fine. But he wasn't he was like, staring through me. And we had like a rental car with like a Styrofoam like, you know, disposable styrofoam cooler in it and all the of the ice had melted from the day. And we go to the back of the car, my son's kind of back then at least he was he was a little like, demure. Like he wasn't a kid who would just whip off a shirt in front of people and stuff like that, which was always weird to me. I was in such good shape. I was like, if I was in that shape, I wouldn't be wearing a shirt but like, okay, and so he is standing in the parking lot. He looks at me, he looks at the cooler and he goes, Can I have that? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. He takes his pants off, kicks them aside, takes his shirt off. He's standing there in sliding shorts and underwear. He grabs the cooler and picks it up over his head and dumps the freezing cold water over his head. And as it's splashing on my legs, the waters hitting me and it's hot. Oh, no. And I'm like, are you okay? And he goes, I don't know. I'll be okay. I think so. And I was he's like, he was like, really like that. So I'm throwing liquid at him bananas. I'm like, Here, eat this drink this like you got back to the hotel. That air conditioning hit him in the hotel. He fell asleep for hours. And it was the stroke. Oh my god, vicious man. And he gets up the next day. And we went right back to a baseball game. I was like, You love this? I don't love anything that much. I'd be like, I'm sorry. It's hot out here.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:32
Yeah, I'll come back when it's cool. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:13:35
Would you like to do this in the fall? Because I'd be fine. And then the that week ends with the recruiter from North Carolina, telling him he wasn't tall enough. Great. And it was hard. really heartbreaking. He had played so well that weekend, and he was still young. And he just grew my son. For anybody who cares. He grew a little too late. He kept growing into college. So now he's six feet tall, and you know, was playing at 200 pounds. And, you know, very frequently, opposing coaches would come up to him after games and say, Why are you playing here? Like that would happen to him a lot. And he'd go, I grew in my freshman year, and they'd be like, okay, and he was getting he was getting a great degree. And he we just didn't like people were like, transfer and I'm like, uh, he can't just go get this degree somewhere else. Like he was a little stuck at that point. Yeah, but anyway, that would happen a lot. Like he went out to drive line to train during COVID in Seattle. And he's hitting in a cage one day and one of the instructors comes up to him to tell him you know, he's like, I love your swing, and they're talking about everything. And then my son went over and pitched and through like a 92 mile an hour fastball and the guy grabs him it goes, what college do you go to? And he told him and he goes, why? What happened? And my son just I I grew late and the guy goes, Oh, tough luck. It really really is like that easy. Anyway, I bring that up because he's playing as soft one day and in Georgia this this recruiter comes over to me and he goes That's your son in centerfield. And I said, Yes, he goes, we're interested and I was like, God damn, I looked at his shirt and it said Tar Heels and I was like, honestly Dave I was like we won it's over like this it is you know starts off asking about his grades his grades all line up. He's watching them play out in centerfield. He's like kids amazing. He's like, what a fielder, blah, blah. Such an arm like in that game Cole had Cole hit what was going to be a ball off the wall and right, Senator, excuse me, he played a ball off the wall that was going to be a ball off the wall and in right center field, and he was in center. And instead of it being a ball off the wall, he caught the ball, like going into the fence. And the runner at second was held by the base coach at third. So he was tagging, right? And so on a professional baseball field. My 16 year old son caught a ball in the warning track and right center field. And throughout the runner trying to tag go to third in the air. Oh my god, like the ball was waiting when he got there. Like, like the kid looked up like what the? Yeah, I'm out. Like it was like that, right? Because it will he couldn't even slide the third baseman was holding the ball out in front of him. Can't approach the kids like I don't understand. And then he just gave himself up and it was over. Like that's how how the ball got there. So the the North Carolina guy sees this, and he's like, man, crazy arm, blah, blah, blah. Then later, my son comes in and pitches like a clean inning. And he's like, we're really interested. He's like, I want to talk to him after the game. And I'm just like texting my wife. I'm like, get ready for the baby blues baby. And game ends and I go get cold. And I say hey, there's a guy here wants to talk to you. He's like a coach. I'm like, Hey, he's all excited. And we walk over to him, and we walk up and the guy looks at him and goes, how tall are you? Cold goes, I'm like 510. But I'm still growing. And he goes, I'm sorry. We're not interested.

Speaker 1 1:17:10
Oh my gosh, was that quick? That's actually where my wife went to grad school. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:17:16
well, I'll tell him. Next time she's there to take a piss on the ball field for me.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:20
We're new fans. So

Scott Benner 1:17:23
well, I am now too. But no. And so my son's like, me, you can imagine he's crestfallen. Right? Like he's like looking like what's happening. And the guy just sort of starts to walk away. And I put my hand on his shoulder and I was like, wait, wait, wait, stop. I'm like, I don't understand what just happened. And he goes, my coach isn't going to put him out there at that height. And I was like, He's growing. I'm like, I'm like, I know. I'm five, nine. I'm like, but every man on my wife side of the family is like six, five, I'm like, he's gonna be over six feet tall. And I'm like, you can just tell like, I mean, we've had his growth plates looked at like, he's nowhere near done. And the guy goes, Man, you're really great ballplayer. He goes, like, but my guy won't put you out there. He's like, he's like, even if I got you through, you'd never play. And it's wild. And I was like, what do we do? And the guy said, he goes, Look, find a bunch of colleges, you want to play baseball at that fit your academic needs. And then look at the rosters and see if they let guys your height play. And he's like, and then target those schools. So we did that. And Cole had 20 offers to play college baseball. And it's awesome. Yeah, like except that a year after he committed he grew two inches. Yeah, right. Told you. Yeah. And then it was just like too late by then. So my 93 mile an hour throwing son, is that a d3 school? And they don't even like, I mean, I don't want to talk about this. But it's not like baseball was wasn't first and foremost. You know what I mean? So you end up playing behind guys whose dad's donated to the building of something and it wasn't as much about baseball, so ended up being a fairly disappointing experience for him, which is, sucks, but is the truth. So anyway, now we talked forever, Dave, and I'm getting texts from Arden that just says, I'm hungry. I responded back to her when you were in college, you fed yourself and she's like, but I'm home now.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:29
Yeah, you know, it's sometimes it when it's dinnertime, I'm like, you know, I don't feel like doing math right now. Can you just make a bowl and guess how many units I mean?

Scott Benner 1:19:40
Like, your wife's an angel? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:19:42
we'll do five and we'll go from there.

Scott Benner 1:19:43
You know, if she was from Boston, and you were from North Carolina, and you said that she'd be like, no. Yeah, just looking at your cross. That'd be the end of it. Yeah, Dave, I appreciate you doing this with me. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:56
Yeah, no problems. Good time.

Scott Benner 1:19:57
Yeah, hold on a second. I

want to thank Dave for coming on the show today and sharing his story. And I'd like you to remember that having an easy to use and accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away. Contour next one.com/juicebox That's right Today's episode is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode

if you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

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#1091 Parenting: More Parenting Styles

Scott and Erika talk about more parenting styles and the importance in educating ourselves to understand all the terms including attachment parenting and theory, gentle parenting movement, and co-parenting.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1091 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, I welcome back Erica for another episode in our parenting series and today Eric and I are gonna talk about even more parenting styles. If you'd like to learn more about Erica, she's available to you at Erica forsythe.com. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that it really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode.

Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that check them out at touched by type one.org. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven, which now integrates with a tandem T slim x two system. Learn more and get started today at dexcom.com/juicebox. Erica, welcome back. How are you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:11
Thank you. It's good to be back with John. Well, how are you pretty

Scott Benner 2:14
well, actually. Thank you. I'm enjoying making this with you. And as I told you privately, I'm actually listening to it myself, which I hope people don't think it's weird. But I listened back to a number of these. I'm thinking to myself like wow, these are good. I had the thought that like this could be its own podcast about parenting. So that's a good sign.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:34
Yes, thank you. Yeah, no, no,

Scott Benner 2:36
it's been a pleasure doing it with you. And you've brought so much to it that I never could have. So I mean, I can't thank you enough. Oh, you're welcome. Today, we are going to do more parenting styles. So if you've been listening from the beginning, then you know that episode two, which is really kind of episode one, because the first episode was just us brainstorming what this whole thing would be. The first real like informational episode of this series is called Understanding parenting styles. Today, we're going to do a little more on that. And yes, and I want you to kind of tell people why you thought this next bit was important. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:15
I think it's important for us to educate ourselves and understand the theory, I want to focus on attachment theory primarily. Because oftentimes, we we are raised, you know, starting off as a newborn and infant there is an attachment style that you as a parent and you as also the infant are exposed to and oftentimes we are unaware of the term. So I think it's helpful just first and to educate ourselves and bring us to an awareness of what those styles are. And probably most of us have heard or these before, but also that they can manifest themselves as an adult in your in your romantic relationships. And I also wanted to talk about gentle parenting, which you most of you probably have seen on social media has become this kind of big movement. I think it's important for us to speak to that a little bit as well.

Scott Benner 4:12
Erica, at the end of this hour, am I going to find out why I like feet. I was gonna say but I don't like feet. But what am I going to? What am I going to learn about myself while we're talking? I'm scared.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:26
Yes, maybe or why or why feet make you nervous or what?

Scott Benner 4:29
Okay, all right. Let's get into it. Now. I can't wait to find out why what I think is attractive is attractive. This is this is gonna be upsetting. It's gonna be something about my mom, isn't it? Okay. Hold on. Give me a second. Give me a second to get ready for that in my mind. So where do we start with attachment parenting and attachment theory? Do we kind of want to go over those?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:52
Yes, I think that's great. So attachment. We probably have all heard the word attachment. It's the points as a parent. And I think it's really important to distinguish that attachment parenting is different than attachment theory. And so starting with attachment parenting. This was developed by pediatrician William Sears and registered nurse, nurse, Martha Sears in the 80s 1980s. And I know that their book became really popular in the 80s. And they were specifically advocating for this collection of seven practices that they called the baby bees. Shall I list them? So birth bonding, breastfeeding, baby, we're wearing bedding close to the baby belief in the baby's cry, balance and boundaries. And beware of baby trainers.

Scott Benner 5:54
Some of them some of them jump out at me as being obvious, but I don't think babywearing means turning the baby into a suit coat. So what does all this what does all this mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:02
Yes, so this was kind of in response to maybe more of a kind of strict authoritarian movement of you know, parents know best in you know, I'm stereotyping in the 50s 60s and, and then an evolution in the 70s and 80s There was this response to No, you need to really be connected to your baby, literally, you know, physically any way you can. And so yes, birth bonding that's you know, when we you know, skin to skin, like do you want in the hospital, but the baby on on the mother's chest, breastfeeding baby wearing, you're wearing, there's a huge growth and the, oh my goodness, you know, the slings and the baby carriers, betting close to the baby, you know, having cosleeping belief in the baby's cry if the baby's crying, go meet the need immediately, having balance and boundaries. So also having an understanding that you can't always meet all of the needs, but there really was a strong emphasis on always responding to the baby's cry. And then beware of baby trainers. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure there must have been an influx of baby training going on, you know, in home and house hiring like poachers, but yeah, oh, okay.

Scott Benner 7:21
I think so William Sears would have would have come up in the 40s. Right, he would have done his formative years through the 40s 1940s. And he would have been a teen in the 1950s. Yes, yeah. Okay. So yeah, so that means that it mean, it must mean that his theories are rooted in, in what he experienced and what he was, took his education and then applied back to himself and said, Here's what I think I needed. Is that fair? Like, you know, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:50
think that's fair. Yes, yes. And I think I wanted to start with this most recent style, because that's what I think people think of in creating a secure attachment.

Scott Benner 8:01
Today's episode of the podcast is sponsored by Dexcom. And I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you a little bit about the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven, the Dexcom G seven is small, it is accurate and it is easy to use and wear. Arden has been wearing a Dexcom G seven since almost day one when they came out, and she's having a fantastic experience with it. We love the G six but man is the G seven small, the profile so much closer to your body, the weight, you can't really feel it, and that's coming from me. And I've worn one. I've worn a G six I've worn a g7 I found both of the experiences to be lovely. But my gosh, is that g7 Tiny and the accuracy has been fantastic Arden's Awan C's are right where we expect them to be. And we actually use the Dexcom clarity app to keep track of those things. That app is built right in to Arden's Dexcom G seven app on her iPhone. Oh, did you not know about that, you can use an iPhone or an Android device to see your Dexcom data. If you have a compatible phone, your Dexcom goes right to the Dexcom app, you don't have to carry the receiver. But if you don't want to use the phone, that's fine. Use the Dexcom receiver, it's up to you. Choice is yours with Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:24
That you have to you have you know breast is best that whole movement, you have to breastfeed you have to co sleep you have to do skin to skin in order to create a very secure attachment between the baby and the caregiver. And what this led to is that most guilt ridden mothers who just could not maintain this type of connection all of the time. And so they had this theory that everyone's reading their book, and thinking this is what I have to do to be an ideal mother and then the reality As they're exhausted, and the babies, you know, they're feeling like the baby's needs aren't being met. So they are leading into their own shame. And what research has come out to explain or kind of prove that following the baby bees didn't predict secure attachment. And so that's where, and I think, well, now we can go back to what is attachment theory. But that's where I think people are like, wait, I have to do all these things to create the secure attachment my baby, but I can't do it all. I must be a terrible mother.

Scott Benner 10:33
Okay. Long term. It didn't prove out to be that completely valuable. Correct. Okay, great,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:38
then we'll we'll go into some, some explanations.

Scott Benner 10:42
Yeah, please, I'm, I'm listening to you on this one. So go ahead and keep guys questions when I have them.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:48
So, actual attachment theory was developed by John Bowlby in the 1930s. He was a psychoanalyst, psychologist, and he was in England. And then Mary Farnsworth who was from America, she joined him in the 1950s. And together based on lots of observations, scientific, you know, research and analysis, they created this attachment theory. And what it basically what they through kind of observing, they would observe babies, and usually mothers or their primary caregivers in in rooms. And they would notice that some of the children's beat babies behaviors, they could start kind of categorizing when the mom left the room, would they cry for a little bit? And then start playing again? Would they scream and run after? or crawl after the mom? Or would they totally ignore the mom? And not like not even really care? And then they would also observe how do the babies respond when the mother re enters the room? Are they are they avoided? Are they ambivalent? Or do they kind of reach up and say, like, Mommy, you know, hug me. So through that, they developed a theory of attachment and basically came up with that the secure attachment is formed when the caregivers are responsive to the to the baby's needs, they're warm, they're loving, they're emotionally available. And then, and then as a result, babies understand that the caregiver can handle their feelings, they feel secure, and knowing that the caregiver will be there. And in a truly formed secure attachment. They also know that they can handle stress, so that if when the mother leaves, the baby responds, like, Oh, I'm gonna miss my mom, I'm gonna cry. And I'm verbalizing obviously, what mostly they've thought through their expressions, I'm gonna cry a little bit, but then I'm gonna go back to my own thing, and I'm gonna start playing, I'm going to be okay. And then when mom comes back, I'm going to want to reconnect with her. And so through all of this research, they learned that okay to have a secure attachment between the caregiver and in the initial research, it was mother and baby, but now they have seen the US as any kind of primary caregiver could be grandparent, father. Yeah, anything. So in the secure attachment, we chain, caregiver and baby, they're really wanting to through your emotional regulation and attentiveness to the attunement to the baby's needs, you are providing that sense of safety and security, you're helping regulate the baby's emotions, right. So if they're crying, you're meeting their needs. But sometimes it's not like immediate, there's always that discussion of like, Did you let your baby cry for one minute or five minutes or 10 minutes? To kind of understanding the cries? This is all like, through attunement, right? of maybe the baby's just fussy, or is the baby hungry? Is it tired, and you're also being able to respond to the baby's expressions and validating their expressions. And, ultimately, one of them to feel secure that my kid that the caregiver is going to be there for them, but also learning how to handle distress, and then being able to cope with that a little bit? Yeah, that's a lot. Sorry. No, no,

Scott Benner 14:15
I wonder how I mean, everybody's different. And every babies are different, too. They have personalities. And I mean, I have two kids, and you could hear cry, there's pain, when they cry, there's distress, there's anger, like you can hear all that, you know, as you as you do it longer. And I'm thinking like, what if it was just three different kids in the room? And are they basing did they basically say like, this is what we see collectively. You're either going to get this reaction, this reaction or this reaction, not necessarily everyone's going to have this that or the other thing. You don't mean like, like, I know, you're just doing you they're doing research, right, but, but it was so long ago, like, where they don't I mean, were they just like He saw a thing that no one's ever seen before it's a rule, or, or does this play out like in modern time? Do you? Can you ask questions of parents and say, oh, yeah, this is how I'm seeing the kid. And they're telling me that's how they were raised. Those two things match up.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:16
Yes, sometimes or in as an adult, will come in and realize, as they're starting to parent, they're noticing kind of the tendencies of how they're parenting and then the remembering of a child, how did they feel? Yeah, the way they're, they were parented. And I think attachment theory has become pretty common, and that people will often say, you know, I was an anxious I had an anxious attachment, or I was, you know, was an avoidant. And so I think your question of, is this, how every single caregiver and baby interaction is formed? I don't know, I honestly I couldn't.

Scott Benner 15:57
That's a big question. I didn't expect to hear the answer to it. Yeah, I just, I'm just interested in, in that idea, like, you know, there are people come on the podcast all the time, they'll explain the stories from their life. And I'll think, Oh, I had that happen to me. And I had the exact opposite reaction to it. That That in itself is fascinating, right? Because now is the parent. Even if you say the first one goes, well, you're like, hey, I have another baby, and it comes out, you start doing the same stuff. You go, Oh, that's not working with this one. You know, because different people, except when they're little babies, they all feel like, you know, like stuffed animals or like, Oh, it's a baby, you don't think too much of the rest of it until I guess it can feel like it's too late sometimes, or you're so stuck in what you do that you're like, I don't know what else to do. Either. This is how I was raised, or I did it with the last one. I don't know where to go from here. You know, and, and how do you like, how do you see the baby's reaction? And give it back what it needs? I guess the one of the bees probably is really good advice, the belief and babies cry. Like that one, to me seems like it would apply bigger to parenting, like Believe, believe them? You don't I mean, if they say they're mad, they're mad, that kind of stuff. Right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:12
Yes. And that's where the research and I some of this information, there's, there's just great if you're really interested in this, you know, you could Google the attachment theory and learn a lot about it. One article that I thought was really great in explaining some of the differences was from greater good.berkeley.edu. And it's why Attachment Parenting is different, are not the same as secure attachment. And you're right about believe that babies cry. So having that emotional, attunement and responsiveness and validating that they're feeling you're taking their feelings seriously. Right. That's it's all about the validation. But the difference can be seen or noted that sometimes what they saw with people who were following the Attachment Parenting is like you're you're overdoing it and having to, you're trying to meet the child's every need every request. Sure. And that can be exhausting. And that's when it's also counterproductive. Because I love this quote that they said, in contrast, research on secure attachments shows that in the flow of everyday life, Miss attunements happen about 70% of the time, and Miss attunements meaning that maybe the caregiver doesn't respond to the cry immediately because you're having to do something else. Or maybe you're trying to feed the baby, and he's actually tired. And so there's a lot more grace and invalidation. And like having that secure attachment that 70% of the time, you're kind of missing the mark. Yeah. And I think that's really something to note, because with the secure attachment, the baby learns that not only the beep, that the caregiver is going to be there and take the feelings seriously and listen to the baby's cries. But there's also going to be that mismatch missing kind of the mark. And then there's the repair that we talked about, even as you know that your child's older, you can you can repair that and say, oops, I you guys, you are hungry. You weren't tired, or vice

Scott Benner 19:09
versa, right? We can forget what happened just now. I'll give you knew better experience. And we'll keep moving like that. Because you're never because yeah, because three out a looks like three out of 10 times you're over. Remember we talked about that too? Even that pops up again here. 70 Isn't that interesting? Again? Yeah. I hope everybody listened to all the way through, they know what I'm talking about. But oh, that's really interesting. Listen, I think that it makes total sense for the baby to come out and spend time with the mom if it can after birth that just that I mean just common sense wise, there's, I mean, a lot has happened to both of you in the last couple of minutes. It'd be nice to just chill out for a minute and and meet each other. Right. Totally makes sense to me. Breastfeeding. I mean, there was a couple of decades there while everybody was like formula feeding their kids, right, like breastfeeding was like a hippie idea. Like for a while which is odd Add, isn't it odd how we were able to like, take something so natural and make it like weird, you know, like no, no buy this and now by the way, now it's hard to find formula since cope since COVID. And and you hear people going, Oh, just breastfeed, it's great way to do it. You're like, Yeah, nobody knows what they're talking about is all I think every time I hear something get out, we make these rules up even this, this, you know, William Sears and his his work, right? He's probably just first in a modern era to think about that. That's, it's really it. I mean, prior to that, people were turning out babies like livestock because they didn't even think they were gonna live. And they're just trying to get a couple to like, you know what I mean, to go the distance even? And I bet you, that's part of where that parenting style comes from, too. Like, how am I gonna get so attached to this kid, if he's gonna get rubella when he's four and, and I gotta put him in the ground. You know what I mean? Like, and I live in a box. And we're, we never know if we're gonna make it through the winter. And like, like, I don't know how you that's got to be for your own personal, I would think, right? Like, Oh, yes. So when life's harder, we become more modernized. life's harder. You can't be that attached to your kids. Because what if they, what if you lose them, and then we get more and more modern life gets safer and safer, people live longer. There's not as much infant mortality, that all happens, but we're still wired to be like, and what if that thing dies, I don't want to love it too much. And then this guy comes along, and drags us into more modern thinking about being human to our own children. That's really interesting. And then he tries to come up with the best way he can to write a book that people will buy so that he can get people to pay attention to this thing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:41
Yeah. That's a great synopsis. Yeah. I think yeah, with with the breastfeeding example, the, one of the things as, as you know, the breast is best movement came about, I remember even hearing that in when I delivered my children and, you know, 2015. And I think, what, what, six, what the difference between the secure attachment and then the parenting, Attachment Parenting is that either can provide a secure attachment, breastfeeding, or bottle feeding, right? Because you can, you can put your baby on to the breast and be very methodical and be doing other things. And your that's not like that warm connection, right? In the same way you can cuddle and love and make eye contact with your baby while feeding them the bottle. And that is just as connecting and forming that secure attachment as breastfeeding. And I think that we're that place that was misunderstood for a long time. Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:44
no, I just, I mean, if you really look at this, and translated into modern times, right, we're doing this right now, by the way, we're doing what William Sears did right now, but we're recording it. And it's available for people very quickly, and they hear it instead of have to read it. It's you ever thought I ever thought we're sharing it with somebody? That's what he did, right? But back then, once he did it, they didn't need to do it again, because there was a book, they could sell it. It was done already. That's how they think of it now you're just constantly pushing people's ideas out in the world. And then the, you know, then people get to listen and decide for themselves. This makes sense to me. I think that technology is going to move us away from this idea that these are the rules. And then that'll be freeing to people in a generation or two, that they don't have to say, oh, you know what? I didn't breastfeed. I'm a bad mom. Right? Yeah. Right. Like, like, because it's not a rule anymore a rule, but I'm making quotes, you know? Not that you wouldn't want to if you could, I'm not saying don't breastfeed. I'm not saying any of this like, I mean, again, baby wearing, I don't understand what that is, do you know what that is? That's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:54
that's what's like the slings or the rat or like the emoji? Like the baby.

Scott Benner 24:02
I don't want the kids to love me that no, just kidding. I'm not like, that's not a thing we ever did, right? I think the Baby Bjorn was getting popular as my kids were maybe getting a little older. Bedding close to the baby. We did that with both of our kids when they were newborns in a bassinet near the bag. You know that mean for your own? Sadly, maybe as much as for them to feel close. But also, isn't that another? I know when I say common sense. Sometimes people get upset with me. But there isn't a common sense thing not to take a three year old day old baby into another room and plop it down and be like good luck. You know, like, I don't know, like it felt weird to me for the kid to be that not that close to us until you were comfortable that Jesus they could roll over if they got in trouble or you know what I mean? Like anything like that really? Well. Yeah. And

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:46
then the critic would say though betting close to the baby, is that then also co sleeping where the risk could be that you roll on to the baby, or you do let the baby sleep with you until you're eight and there's You know, obviously everyone has a viewpoint on that. Yeah. So what what I think the critics now say, well, that doesn't, that's not going to form because it says Attachment Parenting that's not going to form the secure attachment. These are there aren't these like quick twig tricks.

Scott Benner 25:17
So that's my point. And by the way, when you say critics, here's what I think people who also want to put their opinion out on the internet, but need an alternate perspective, because the thing that they're arguing with has already been done enough that they can't get into the space. Like, that's, that's what I hear when you say that, but I'll tell you what, listen, I agree. I mean, it can't go on forever, right? Like, it's, there's gotta be like a cut off point, I'll tell you when we stopped doing it. So I used to, we used to be very, very broke. And when we were young, and Kelly had to get on a train every day to go to work, but we could not afford to pay for the parking permit at the train station. As I look back now, I believe it was $60 a month. And we were like, it sounded like somebody said, We need a million dollars for you to park your car here because we couldn't we couldn't come up with it. So I would get up every morning at like five o'clock, and put coal in a carrier and drive Kelly to the train station. And then I'd come back and most days we'd start our life, you know, get going. But there was this one day, I was freaking exhausted. Like really, and I said, I have to sleep, I have to get a little more sleep. And I thought, okay, like He looks tired still. And I brought him in into our bed. And I made like a little pillow fort around him. So I couldn't roll right on him. And I thought I had it all set up. And I'm asleep. And I still to this day can't explain what happened. But in my sleep. I felt him rolling out of the bed. And I I was on my back. And I flung myself towards him reaching with my arm over the over the mattress. And I got his onesie as he was falling to the ground and pulled him back up like a slinky. Oh my God, it was insane. Okay, like a crane very gently brought him back over the bed, set him down. And then I went from exhausted and asleep to like, wow, I was like, I was like jacked up with adrenaline, right? I was like, Oh, hey, buddy, hey, buddy. And he doesn't even I didn't even know. You don't mean? Like, he's just looking at me like, Hey, what's up, man? And so I get I'm like, it's gonna be fine. I was killed. And then I said to my wife, Hey, maybe I shouldn't be doing this anymore. Because I if if I was gonna fall back asleep, he needed to be somewhere secure, not not just with me. And then we let it go. He was maybe, I don't know, nine months old when we stopped doing that. You know, and he didn't sleep was asleep with us overnight. But there were times that it was always around exhaustion. If he was cranky or sick, then we'd bring him with us because we were like, I can't keep getting up and down like this. You know, survival. Yeah. By the way, if we lived in a teepee, we'd all be on the floor next to each other anyway, so I don't know.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:02
And then now they have very cool contraptions that I forget what it's called. It was just getting popular when we were kind of out of that phase, the dark DockAtot I

Scott Benner 28:13
feel like you're making that up. DockAtot

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:17
DockAtot you have to Google it where you know, they're in your bed. That's like a bassinet, but in your bed, but then it has like a like a no, it's

Scott Benner 28:24
yeah, you found it. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:27
DockAtot Yeah. So they do have they have cool little chap. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

Scott Benner 28:32
please, there's no shortage of things that will take your money while you're having a baby. So by the way, you will give away most of them still in the packaging after the babies have grown up. You'll have like three things you like, I can't live without these the rest of the stuff I do not care about. Yeah, so Okay. Well, that's, I mean, okay, so like, where does that leave us? Like, if I'm, if somebody did the BS with me, or if somebody you know, jumped forward and did Valerie's stuff and, and worked like, where do I end up as a person? Like, how do I look at myself as an adult? And look back about how I was raised because that's the only way we're going to be able to tell people who are raising kids now like, this is your goal. And this may be what's gonna get you to

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:12
that. Yes. So what what is interesting with the secure attachment theory that I don't have an exact name to give you but they've done worse research to identify that typically the way that your attachment was formed with your caregiver, you then we kind of live that out and project that onto your romantic partner. So most often, we we kind of expect or think or hope that our romantic partners or live out will act the way our caregivers did. So if you were raised with the secure attachment from your caregiver, knowing that your needs were validated, your needs were met, your emotions were validated. You also had some space to experience some stress and then implement some coping skills you were you then kind of project that obviously be the healthiest romantic relationship, right like where you your needs are met, you're also have, they're not like constantly on each other or needing that right from each other. So that would be the secure attachment in adults. There's the avoidant attachment, which you might be, you might hear like the anxious avoidant experience and children, and that we can totally aligned with the four parenting styles, which we spoke about in the first episode, that this might be similar to kind of the uninvolved or neglectful parents, someone who might be you maybe you were raised as a child, as an infant, you are the child, the parent is either really doesn't care or is or is just really busy and stressed. And so you might have this anxious avoidant attachment style. And then that might also you project that into your romantic relationship. So

Scott Benner 30:59
if, if a parent was this dismissive of you for any number of reasons, then you're going to have that feeling like someone's going to avoid you as an adult. And that gives you anxiety. When you're in that relationship. You're like, oh, no, they're gonna do this thing to me. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:15
Okay. Yes, the third style is, so as a child anxious ambivalent, and children, this could be you could kind of equate this to the permissive parenting style, which is pretty inconsistent. And so as an adult in your relationship with the, if you're in an anxious attachment style, you might have a real significant fear of abandonment in the relationship. And not necessarily you're not really secure in that in that space with your partner, the last one, and we can go back and like yeah, we hash these. Yeah, please is a fearful avoidant, and children, that would be the attachment style as a child, and then you would, we would categorize this as disorganized attachment styles as an adult, we could maybe compare this to authoritarian parenting style, but it's actually even, it would be more equated to if you were, there was a lot of trauma or abuse, and you had real fear. Okay, of your of your caregiver. Alright,

Scott Benner 32:21
so let's go back through them. So okay, so avoidant, which is similar to uninvolved would be if a parent may was dismissive of you, and then it would give you that anxious avoidance in your in the child.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:35
Right. So like, some examples would be if the as, as a child, the caregiver, kind of left you to fend for yourself. They really they expected you to be independent in ways that maybe weren't developmentally appropriate. And then maybe if you if you needed them, you were either reprimanded or rejected. And so that that would kind of look like

Scott Benner 32:56
as a child, yeah. But then what does that translate to as me as a partner for somebody as an adult?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:01
So maybe you're avoiding emotional intimacy or physical intimacy, you probably have, maybe you have a real strong sense of independence, because that's how you learn how to cope and survive, you might not be comfortable expressing your feelings, because if you did, as a child, you were either reprimanded or ignored. You might have a hard time trusting people or or feel threatened. Like if anyone does try to it just goes back to kind of avoiding the emotional physical intimacy if you're feeling like, Ah, this person is trying to get close to me. And and then you might want to spend more time alone. Okay, and don't really feel like you need other people because you never learned how to how to do that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:43
And by the way, you can end up being this person. And this not be the parenting style that you were. I mean, like there's other ways to get to this stuff too. Sure. Sure. Right. Okay. All right. Give me the next one. So similar to permissive, anxious, preoccupied anxious ambivalent, in children, so there's anxious avoidant and anxious ambivalent?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:07
Yes. Okay. So that first one we just did was anxious. avoidant, avoidant. And the second one anxious avoidant

Scott Benner 34:16
ambivalent,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:17
excuse me, thank you. You have kind of well, I guess, as a child, you were listed see the best easiest way to do this without getting your parent maybe you were there. They kind of alternated between like overly in your space and like overly coddling and overly meeting your needs? Or were totally kind of detached and indifferent.

Scott Benner 34:43
This could go back and forth. From that. Yes. Oh, so there are parents who are like all in or all out? Yes, yeah. Okay. All right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:50
So maybe they're really kind of attentive and then and then the next day they push you away. This could be fright for so many reasons. Like this is not

Scott Benner 34:57
true. No, no, it's not it's not like it's not it's Got a condemnation of anybody like you might maybe on the weekends you're real intense and then Monday through Friday you're like, I'm busy. I'm working that kind of Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:08
right. Yeah. Also, the without these is all maybe subconsciously the parent the caregiver, maybe made the child feel responsible for how the parent felt. And so that the child might often grow up thinking okay, I need to take care of other people's feelings and can lead to kind of some codependence okay. So as an adult, if you're noticing in your relationships, that maybe you're, you're leaning towards kind of clean D tendencies, tendencies, or maybe an in jealous of other people or other relationships, you might have difficulty being alone. Typically, like low self esteem, feeling unworthy of things like perceived particularly unworthy of love, right? Definite fear of rejection, significant fear of abandonment, right? Like whatever you do, please don't leave me in that comes from that inconsistent. I'm here I'm meeting your needs. And the next day being right. Totally different as a parent, right. So that isn't being jerked around

Scott Benner 36:13
is what it is. Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, I'm sorry, we talked so much through this about just being consistent and stable. That that really is just a bedrock of parenting. Like, it almost doesn't matter which one you are, as long as you're consistent about it, like so that a kid can like, can say, or at least I know this what this is what this is right? And, and showing love, no matter the situation if you're a hard worker Monday through Friday, and you can't pull yourself away, but but you can still communicate stability. I'll be home at five o'clock. We're definitely going to do this together. I love you. Like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think that's, it sounds to me. Like that's still a repairable variable to parenting, like you talked about earlier. Yeah. Like you can still get ahead of that. It's, people don't know, this is what they're doing, right? Because right, you'll just like, make an excuse, like, I got to work hard, because I gotta make money. And that's that, or whatever else. And I guess too, if you're, if you're parented, this way, it leads to you doing this in your relationship. You're gonna do it to your kid to ensure a parent, then. And so then it just kind of keeps isn't it interesting, too, that we none of us do this while we're courting and dating. Right? Like, I mean, it's an easy joke to say like, Oh, you'll meet me after you can't get away. We know enough not to show it to people when we want them to like us. That's fascinating to me. Like, it really is like, because I don't think it's that diabolical when people do it. I don't think they think oh, this is weird part of my personality. I'm gonna keep it to myself. People know how to act. They just have to do it on purpose.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:01
Take a lot of work. Yeah. And is that sustainable?

Scott Benner 38:05
But do you think they're just acting like, I mean, there's got to be people who have gotten married and like, I was sold a bill of goods like, this is not, this ain't who you are, you know what I mean? And that happens all the time. Right? Sure.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:16
Sure. But that also could be a result of, you know, so many external variables to Oh, yeah, no,

Scott Benner 38:22
please. Yeah, I'm not saying that. There's only one way to get to this. There's so many ways to get to a unhappy, unpleasant life.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:28
And there's so many ways to to evolve out of that and to get

Scott Benner 38:32
out of it exactly to and again, over and over again, the answer is see it recognize it, do something about it, start over again, not instead of just like it's too late or it's not going to work out for me or whatever, or any of these you know, let me let me get let you get to the last one to to fearful avoidant, and I'll ask my other question. Okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:55
And I think before we go to the last one too, as you're hearing these kind of summaries or signs just to remind you that there is hope that none of these attachment styles are even though they they feel fixed. There can be growth to kind of undo these you know, particularly through you know, deep therapy work of re parenting if you have trauma like this next one will you know you can do I highly recommend EMDR you know, to help kind of reparent yourself and reform format your attachment style. And so this last one, the disorganized attachment style, they might seem this is really kind of based on trauma, neglect, abuse, and just kind of fear of fear of their parents fear of like they're just kind of general safety is pretty present in this childhood attachment signs as an adult that you might have a disorganized attachment styles, you know, definitely fear of rejection. Pretty you have difficulty with rank relating your emotions, pretty contradictory behaviors, because you haven't really, you don't really know how to like ground yourself and regulate yourself. High levels of anxiety, difficulty trusting people, which would make a lot of sense all of these things. And as well as signs of the other two styles that we just talked about the avoidant and the anxious attachment styles. And also we see a little bit we see more mood problems with this type of style, but it also makes a lot of sense.

Scott Benner 40:29
Am I more screwed if I meet another person who has the same style as me? And I'm in a relationship is that because because at least if you have a different one, like I think of my wife and I as having broken each other, like wild horses, like you don't I mean, like he's, we were young when we met, and my wife and I went to therapy, like when we were young and married. And I guarantee you that if I found a therapist right now, and it was like, Hey, we're still married, he'd be like, get the fuck out of here real quick. Be like, Oh, I lost 50 bucks with a guy gotta go pay. I'm like, usually, like, but but I think we had enough. If I if I can break us down a little bit. I think we had enough intellectual prowess to see what we were doing and to work our way through it. But if I were to look at these three, parenting styles, I would say I clearly fit. I think I think I fit into disorganized as a parenting style. My dad was kind of abusive. My mom didn't stick up for me when that happened, although I felt very loved by my mom. So I probably have a little bit of the avoidant, more of the disorganized, like, I'm probably a blend right in there. A little bit of that, right. I don't have any anxiety from it for some reason, although I would describe myself and this was one of the other questions I want to ask you. Because I'm adopted. I did have I'm adopted, and from a family of divorce. I definitely had that like, Oh, God, nobody go anywhere feeling like, like, and I've had abandonment. And I've said on here before, until I got older and like, figured out that you couldn't do that. If there was a problem between people even in my family of the four of us, I had this horrible feeling that if we didn't fix it right now, their doom was on its way. Like we couldn't argue without finishing it. And and coming to a resolution because I would get like this feeling of like, Oh, God, this is it. It's all over. Yeah, you know, like, someone's gonna leave. Like, that's how it felt to me. I don't feel that way anymore. But I got there, because my wife, who was probably raised, like, you know, being a vote like, nobody really connecting with her emotionally or even intellectually, plus, she was in her family, the kid who was getting good grades, they didn't even feel like they had to help her with school. You know, like she was kind of on her own, a little bit of a misfit as far as the family organization when she didn't quite fit in with the rest of them. So I feel like she took a little bit of that parental abuse that she received. And she found a way to artfully and purposefully use it on me to drag me out of that disorganized state I was in. Does that make sense? Yes, okay. Yes. And then I was able to use the kind of more like, artistic part of how I think about life. And I mean, you guys know how I feel. You hear me talking all the time, like that whole thing. And she was stuck in a very kind of like Catholic rules and regulations. We're not saying we're not real nice to each other, we don't show too much love. Even if I'll tell you the one thing I can't like that's took her the longest time to get away from was her parents would only say something nice about her through a proxy. So she didn't know that her dad was impressed by her. She talked to her father's friend who said, Oh, your dad told me the story about this thing you did. But he would never say to her directly, right. And so I'm kind of trying to, I've been trying to bring her into that more like loving, caring, like, feeling that she didn't have that. Yeah, that I actually did have growing up, and maybe I had it for my mom, or maybe, maybe I developed it for my brothers. And knew like, I'm not clear on that in my life, if it all came from my mom, or if I saw how much my brothers needed somebody and I kind of became that thing for them. But anyway, I was able to give that to her. And that's difficult to, to drag a person out of that kind of like, I don't want to just call it cold, but it is it's like kind of a more cold state. And like to bring them out of it is tough. Like there's still times if I hug my wife, she'll get uncomfortable after a while. I've known her for 27 years, and she gets a little like, don't be too nice to me feeling. You know what I mean? If she ever hears that, she's gonna be mortified. But just you know, it's true. I just let it go. So I was a mess. I'm not saying I wasn't. But But if two people get I often interview somebody, I just interviewed this kid the other day. He's bipolar. He's medicated now he's doing pretty well. But he's dating a person who's also struggling with mental health issues. And I part of me thinks, well that makes sense because who's going to understand them better? But then I thought, well, who the hell is gonna save them? Like you don't I mean, like there's no one there to know the other side of This, am I onto something with that by any chance?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:02
Well, I think, yes, anything where you can be attracted to someone either in the opposite attachment style, or oftentimes you see, like, if you're in the codependent place, right, you're gonna be in that where you could be in that naturally in a relationship with someone who's equally as codependent and you kind of feed each other in that so it can be unhealthy in a way. I think that the, the way that you and Kelly, were able to work on yourselves, and then how you interacted with each other's is remarkable. And whether that was you know, you had the awareness. And then you also sought help to have that, like, objective observer. And then you had the motivation to do that, or the intent. And

Scott Benner 45:49
she was also really great about it and intent on it. Like she definitely saved me before I was able to, like the thing she gave me she gave me before I was able to complete the things I was able to give her like, I don't know if that makes sense or not. Yeah, and I think that's because as a female, I think she was more emotionally mature when we were younger than I was. I mean, I honestly think that's part of it. And probably a little bit of that, like Catholic Irish, like I'm not getting divorced, we're fixing this, like like that kind of thing to get an email is helpful little stick to itiveness and not wanting to bail right away. But so you know, the thing that just popped in my head, I don't know how reasonable it is to say out loud. But if I treat my daughter one way, she ends up with a bad guy. If I treat her another way, she's got a better chance of not she won't gravitate towards people who are like more chaotic and likely to hurt her and stuff like that. Just talking about it from this perspective first. But which is that like, what do I want to give her so that she doesn't end up on a motorcycle in Arizona smokin math?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:51
Oh, well love tension. And I think this, the authority going back to her that you know, the authoritative parenting style, right? Like having her she knows how to she knows that she can trust her caregiver to meet her needs, but also isn't so dependent on it, right? Like there's this balance of I can meet my own needs. But I also am comfortable and confident in asking for my needs to be met. And I know that I want somebody who will validate my feelings and not dismiss them, and won't get one ignore them.

Scott Benner 47:34
And if I'm a big scumbag, as a dad, everything's a party, and I'm not really giving those things, then she's going to look for someone like me to get the approval of someone romantically that she couldn't have gotten parentally

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:47
I mean, in it, yes. As it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:54
I know that everything's not exact, but that can happen. Oh, how many people you got to talk to but if you hear the same story over and over again and think there's probably not a lot of different stories under the sun, you know what I mean? So, so same thing with a boy like how do I nurture a boy, so that they're kind, but not a pushover and, and so that they're masculine in a way that they're going to need without being an asshole? Like, that's, to me seems like the balancing act for raising a son like how are you going to make them a man without making them a dick. And, you know what I mean, it we're making them somebody who just, you know, is so overly concerned with, how they come off. And if they're being polite, I know, this doesn't sound politically correct. I don't even care. But like, like Unity, like, like, it's just, like, that's what you're trying to do. Right? You're like you're trying to raise a boy that they can take care of themselves and hopefully, lead, you know, take care of other people. And without them over indulging that kind of male ego thing and without under indulging it. And then the same for a girl you're trying to you're trying to create a person who can lead a group and take care of their family without being you know, I don't know, what would be the correlation there without, I don't know, being a princess or like, whatever. And, you know, and you know, not having any, I don't know, whatever that brings along, or without going the other way. And being an absolute like pushover again, and just doing what another person tells them to do. I mean, like, we can all pretend that things are different. But those are, those are pretty much your worries for your daughter and your son when they're going out the door. You know what I mean? So I don't want some guy on my daughter, then treating her terribly. I want her to be able to stick up for herself and understand who she is, and be able to lead her own life and make her own decisions. I also don't want her to be like some like ice princess who like, you know, nobody can connect with. And yeah, I think I got it all out. That's what I mean. That's what you want. None of that's getting edited. That's exactly what I mean. Okay, I don't want my son to be an asshole and I don't want to be a pushover, and I don't want my daughter to be a nice Princess and I don't want her to get taken advantage. Jump. Those were the things I was thinking of when I was raising my kids. So I don't know if that's general,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:04
it's you sounds like you wanted and, you know, developed and nurtured, secure, confident individuals, right. Like, I mean, I hear I hear your, you know, kind of the, the differences a little bit in the gender expectations. But I think what I hear above all of that is secure, confident, compassionate individuals you can, can be confident and communicate their needs, they can also be compassionate and validate others

Scott Benner 50:33
without going too far in either direction. Like, right without. And by the way, I don't know Arden's still not done. I don't know how well we did with her, like, not being so assertive that it could be off putting this on people like and I don't know that it matters, it only needs to not be off putting to one person, right. So like, like, I'm not saying you have to bend to some like social conformity. But I'm not sure yet because she's still a little young. And she's very confident. And when she expresses that confidence, it can it comes off. I mean, people have her on here. She's, she's not a grappler. Maybe she's aggressive. I don't know what the Yeah, with the I don't know what they were, I think I'm aggressive. So like, I don't know what the I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, like, you know, you and I are going to get to a conversation, I am going to say what I want to say, and that's going to be the end of it. And I think and if I also want to hear what you're gonna say, but I'm not going to apologize for how I feel, or condemn you for how you feel. I think I'm getting there with I think she's getting to that. She's just not quite done yet. If that makes I hope she never hears that she's a wonderful person. She's just not quite. She's not as mature. She's going to be one day, you know, I don't know it. Sorry. Go ahead. No, I don't know what I'm saying.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:47
Yeah, you're I mean, you're going to, you know, I even thinking about, you know, our communication dialogues around like aggressive versus assertive communication, being assertive, oftentimes can be perceived as not feminine air quotes. And assertive is identifying how you're feeling while holding the other person's opinion. You know, holding it literally, like I recognize, you might have a different opinion. But this is how I feel what you just said. And I think going back to our parenting styles and secure attachments and your question in the beginning, you can raise your children with a secure attachment, but they also have different personalities. And so that doesn't mean that they aren't securely attached, or they aren't formed, or developed in a way that like is ideal, but because you see, you know, she has a different personality. And then, but I also hear you that, you know, there's still that growth that you're

Scott Benner 52:43
hoping for, but but like the real question, everybody's wondering is how do I raise a kid doesn't end up in a bar on Coke, and it's the secure, it's authoritative, secure, right? Like, that's the way to go?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:55
Yes, yeah. And modeling, you know, modeling, as we've talked about over and over, and attending and meeting their needs, and then apologizing because we're not perfect, right? Repairing?

Scott Benner 53:07
And are you going to have any, like, let's say, a person who's like a hot mess themselves, somehow pulls it together to be a great parent is still not going to help completely though, right? Because like the, it's still the modeling is incredibly important. It's what you're showing them is, in the end, what they're going to think is real. Like, do as I say, not as I do is going to come into play, I would imagine as the kid gets older.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:30
Yes. So. So if you're saying if you had an insecure, there's like the secure attachment and the other three insecure attachments. So you're saying if if you were raised with an insecure attachment, but somehow you kind of pulled yourself together as a parent, and

Scott Benner 53:47
said the right things, but didn't do the right things? Like like I'm saying from a parenting situation, if I was saying the right thing, but not doing it, is my kid not still gonna be like, he said that, but I see what he's doing. He's doing or do you it's still better than nothing I would imagine. But, you know, a perfect situation is going to be you being, you know, a role model, right? And like, like really being it not just pretending to be because they sniffed through that in three seconds. Like your bullshit isn't gonna, like cover, you can't cover your bolts with perfume and this one, that's for sure. You know, like kids are gonna figure that out in two seconds. And so all right, everyone go to therapy. That's what I heard I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:29
know for sure. And I think there is just there's always hope, you know, for for healing and opportunity to be compassionate. No,

Scott Benner 54:37
I believe I really believe that to like, you have to want to and you have to know enough to, to work towards it and everything. But I can't tell you how much I believe in the idea. And how much after recording with people over and over and over again, I'm telling you this stuff. Nine times out of 10 is going to work out just like this like there's There are not a lot of there are a lot of people running around, you know, the CEO of a small fortune 500 company whose dad grew up doing coke in front of them in the living room. It just didn't work. It doesn't work that way. And I just talked to this kid the other day. Like I was saying earlier, he's in my head now, because you know, you have mental health issues, a lot of anxiety has some suicidal ideation. I said, What was it like growing up? Oh, my dad was a meth and coke. Like, wow. And I'm like, Yeah, I mean, that's how I even said to him, like, what chance did you even have? And he laughed. He's like, not much. And I was like, Yeah, right. Like, he's so bright, and he understands and he knows. And still, this all happened to him because somebody else put him in that situation. Yeah, I don't know. It's It's upsetting. To be honest. Your last little bit here, you have gentle parenting. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:44
So I think just like, you know, in the 1950s, the secure or the attachment theory was developed. And then the 1980s, Sears and Sears came out with the baby bees. And now more recently, you probably are hearing about gentle parenting. And, in general, as you know, some critics suggest that this movement isn't, is not based on scholarship, or research or science, but it's more of kind of an approach or mindset. And so I think it's important to to, to remember that, that it is something that is it's this movement that's grown mainly on social media. And I'm not trying to be little or dismissive, because I think there's some really great tenants to it. And in general, when you when people have done some, you know, anecdotal research online, when they ask what is gentle parenting, they usually say it's, quote, staying calm and challenging moments with their kids, and validating their kids big feelings. This is from the conversation.com. Okay, and so we're like, we Yes, we have heard that. We have just talked about it in a lot of these episodes. But the emphasis is just that, like, stay calm, and validate the big feelings. And I applaud that, I think, where people are feeling badly about themselves, because it's impossible to do constantly write, so then you end up in this space of like, I'm never going to be a gentle parent, I'm never gonna be a good enough parent, because I can't validate all of their big feelings, and I can't just stay calm all of the time. Right. And so I just wanted to just share that note about the gentle parenting movement that there is a lot of there's a great value in it, but also, it's impossible to do. Yeah, 24/7 Listen,

Scott Benner 57:29
you all can listen to whatever you want. But, you know, take it for me. Don't be a shithead. Don't get high and drunk around your kids, give them a foundation, be stable, love them and hang out with them a little bit. All done. Like I mean, come on. It's not that hard. If they if they strike out trying to yell, what the fuck are you doing? Ask them. Like, I mean, I've seen people do it. What the fuck are you doing? Well, he's striking out because he's eight. Like, like, that's what he's doing. I watched a woman stand behind a batting cage one time and give a kid instruction during the pitch. There's a mom, she's like, get your leg down, do this. I'm like, Oh my god. He's trying to hit a baseball. She's four feet behind him yelling through the umpire and the catcher into this kid's ear while he's hitting. Do you want to guess if the kid was any good at baseball, he was not. So like, and by the way, and he appeared to hate his mother. And I was like, what? And by the way, here's the last part of it. Erica, they never made sense to me. They were little tiny people, the mom and the dad. And I thought what do you think this kid's gonna grow up to be six, five. Like just, he's not doing this in college. Just let him go hit the stupid baseball and have fun and it'll do it for a couple of years. No, go find something else. And they'll have a happy memory of you and them and being here. And he won't remember that. He struck out. They were trying to turn him into. They were trying to turn him into Derek Jeter when he was six. I saw the kid recently three feet tall. Like I mean, it just it was never gonna happen. They created all that bad feeling around that kid for no reason. Like, listen, whoever. I don't know what they did to Bryce Harper, when they were raising him, but all right, God bless. Okay, because that guy's a monster, and he can hit a baseball and if he's a little sad in his personal life, I'm okay with it because it makes TV better. Okay, but But you know what I mean? Like, it's not everybody, it just, it's such a, you're going to disagree with me. But is this not relatively simple? At its core? I know it's not because of the way you were raised and everything that happened to you and finances and all that I know it becomes muddy. But at its core, just love people, show them consistency, be there for them. There's not much more to it than that is there?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 59:48
I think yes. It's simple in definition and can get messy in implementation. And then in that messiness, where do you go in your mind can you offer that compassion to yourself and to your child. Right. I think that's, that's where I would land.

Scott Benner 1:00:05
Yeah. And you know, where the major problem here is, is that our initial attraction when we're in our breeding ages is visual, and firm loans and stuff like that, like nobody stops to talk and say, I wonder if me and her might get along. Or if we have, like, you know, backgrounds that will support each other and create like, it's not how we do it we go man, her hair's really pretty. That guy shoulders are amazing. All right, let's go. Anyway, don't don't date in a bar that might give you a better chance to. I don't know what to say. Well, okay, as always, I'm completely dismayed at the end of our conversation. Oh, God, I appreciate that. I kept you long. I really do appreciate it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:53
You're welcome. Thank you. Thanks.

Scott Benner 1:01:04
A huge thanks to a longtime sponsor touched by type one, please check them out on Facebook, Instagram, and at touched by type one.org. If you're looking to support an organization that's supporting people with type one diabetes, check out touched by type one. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two, and gestational diabetes, you're gonna see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smart phone device dexcom.com/juicebox. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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#1090 Diabetes Breakdown

Emma is 22 and has had T1D for a little over a year.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1090 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'll be speaking with Emma. She is 22 years old and has recently been diagnosed with type one diabetes. TODAY Emma is going to share her story with us. We're going to talk a little bit about ozempic and you're going to hear about some of the frustrations that she has. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cosy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juicebox If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox Hi,

Emma 1:43
I'm Emma. I am 22 years old and I have type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:49
And how long have you had type one?

Emma 1:52
For about a little over a year?

Scott Benner 1:55
This is first Yeah. Okay. Did that suck?

Emma 2:01
For a little bit? It sucked. Yeah, I was in I was in school. I was a junior. And it was right when all the hard stuff was happening like academically. So it was like it was a lot at one time. But yeah.

Scott Benner 2:12
Do you think younger people are like wait, college isn't hard right away?

Emma 2:17
Yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of universities kind of ease you into it. Freshman year is is a lot about figuring out your life socially as well as academically and, and getting that independence. So I hope I hope that freshman year is easier than junior year. But yeah,

Scott Benner 2:35
I see what you mean. I watched it happen with both my kids. And yeah, but when it's happening to you as a freshman, you don't think oh, this is easy. Right? I didn't mute my phone plug in me giving you all kinds of roles before we start. I didn't need my phone. Sorry about that. Okay, so Okay, so you're at school? Everything's just good. Oh,

Emma 2:56
for diagnosis. Yes. I just graduated. But

Scott Benner 2:59
yeah, yeah, no, I mean, when you were diagnosed, so you're Are you far from home or relatively close.

Emma 3:06
So I'm far I'm from Texas, originally. And I'm in Miami for school. That was maybe the hardest thing like being so far from my parents. I was in the hospital for like, three days. And they were like, constant on the phone with me. And they were like, We can fly down like if you need but I was about to turn 21. And I was like, you know, I just I think I can do this. I don't I don't need you to come down my boyfriend was was in me in the hospital, or was in the hospital with me? For those three days, so and that made it a lot easier. But yeah, having is because it's an in between period where like, you're not quite like a full adult, but you're not like super rely on your parents anymore. So that was a hard, hard time.

Scott Benner 3:58
Plus, you probably don't know about the more frightening aspects of diabetes in the very beginning, right?

Emma 4:06
No, I knew nothing about diabetes. I knew absolutely nothing. Because no one in my family has diabetes or like any autoimmune stuff. So it was completely a surprise.

Scott Benner 4:17
Like if you were in the hospital and a nurse was like, hey, this insulin if you give yourself too much of it, you could have a seizure and die. You think you would have told your mom to fly there right away? I have like a mom, I just found out. I'm not an adult. I'm looking at this dumb boy that I'm dating and I don't think he can handle this.

Emma 4:37
Yeah, no, so true. And they didn't even really tell me anything in the hospital like, they, they were they were like, Okay, you take six units of this when you eat and then you take 12 of this like every night, and then like maybe it'll be fine. And I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'll do that.

Scott Benner 4:58
Yeah, it's So, how long are you in the hospital for?

Emma 5:02
I was in the hospital for three days. Okay. Yeah, I was like emailing all my professors. Sorry, come to class and they weren't most of them are really understanding and very kind.

Scott Benner 5:15
So, or any of them not

Emma 5:19
know because because I'm so I'm at school for music so all my classes were really small and I knew most of my professors like pretty personally. Sure. So they were they were very understanding that

Scott Benner 5:31
makes sense. Okay, so you get back to school, and it's just back to the schedule. So do you learn diabetes while you're going to class or you do take a couple days off? When you have diabetes and use insulin, low blood sugar can happen when you don't expect it. G Bo Capo pen is a ready to use glucagon option that can treat very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes. ages two and above. Find out more go to G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox G voc shouldn't be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma visit G voc glucagon.com/risk.

Emma 6:13
No know I just went right back to school. I did. Yeah, there was I think like two classes specifically that were mostly lecture based. It was music history. And then I was doing a music for special learners class that were all lectures and I just like completely tuned out. I like was reading blogs. I was reading like academic journals about type one. And and yeah, I was not paying attention at all.

Scott Benner 6:42
Well, it's overwhelming, right? Like you're completely by yourself. And there's this thing. It's lifelong. And you don't have a lot of contexts where but you were very interested to learn more. You didn't just go with the well, this is what they said. And this is what I need to know you. You tried to figure out more? For

Emma 6:56
sure. For sure. Yeah. And like why would I want to learn about like vogner being anti semitic when I could learn something that could save my life? You know what I mean? Was he Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right.

Scott Benner 7:09
Well, that also seems like something you could learn in four seconds. Like you told me now and I'll never forget that. I'd be like, Okay. Does it hurt you in school? Are you are you able to kind of keep up at the same time?

Emma 7:23
My GPA dropped a little bit. I think that semester, I was sitting at like, a, like a 3.8. And I think that specific semester, it was like, 3.4. No,

Scott Benner 7:34
I think I think that'll be okay. But yeah,

Emma 7:37
no, I'm good. I graduated got my degree. So

Scott Benner 7:40
you got your degree in music. But are you uh, are you teaching music? Yeah,

Emma 7:44
so my degrees in music education. Oh, wow.

Scott Benner 7:48
Little kids are who you teaching.

Emma 7:50
So I'm certified K through 12. But I think I want to teach elementary music. I just finished my internship, which is for education majors. The last semester of your four years in college is your student teaching. So you're not in school and in college at all, but you're in school is teaching like with a mentor, teacher? And stuff?

Scott Benner 8:14
Nice. Do you play instruments?

Emma 8:16
I'm a vocalist.

Scott Benner 8:18
Nice. So how do you? So I'm trying to think back to when I was in school? So like chorus class, I remember that. Is that going to be your vibe, you're going to teach kids to sing and things like that?

Emma 8:31
Yeah, I so I taught for my placement, I split placement. So I was in a secondary school, teaching sixth through 12th grade choir for half of the semester, which I loved. And then for the other half, I was teaching general music, second through fifth grade. And I really love both I coming into it. I thought that I was just elementary because like, my mind kind of works that way. And my mom is also a music educator. She teaches a little kids too. But I really love teaching choir. I think that wherever I end up I would also want to do either like after school choir, or like a community choir somewhere. But yeah,

Scott Benner 9:12
I want to give you a piece of advice based on an experience I had as a child. Okay, don't let your skirt get stuck in your leggings before you go up on stage to run the like thing when all the parents come. Okay, cool. I watched that happen girl lady. She didn't seem she was embarrassed. She was very very No, that's terrible. Yeah, that seems bad. Yeah, don't do that. I think you're gonna be fine after that. Okay. Okay, so you've only got diabetes now for like a year. So do they give you technology at the hospital? Do you learn about technology? Are you still NDI? What is happening with all that?

Emma 9:46
So I was MDI for the first like three months. And I had first it was like, long acting pen short acting pen. Well No, it was always that, but I got the ink pen about like, a week after I got out of hospital, which was really awesome. And I was on the ink pen for like three months. Diagnosis, my agency was 11.9. And then after the first three months on the ink pen, I dropped it to 6.5. Which was great. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:23
no kidding. Are you very Yeah.

Emma 10:27
No, not at all. Actually, I like walked to school and stuff. But no, it was very honest.

Scott Benner 10:34
She like No, no, I am not an active person. What would you consider your kind of fueling plan? Like how did you eat prior to diabetes?

Emma 10:45
My, my boyfriend looks a lot for me. And he's Cuban. So he would make a lot of like Cuban food. And at the time, he was working in a restaurant. So he was also learning other stuff, too. But I would just eat whatever he would make for me, which was, yeah, but right now Well, after after diagnosis, I was getting all this information from like, the hospital and things is like, you have to do this like half this like plate diagram thing, where half of it is, is vegetables. And the other half is like, are quarters protein and carbs, whatever, which is more of a type two thing, but that's what they told me. So I kind of just like ran with that. And my boyfriend I started like meal prepping, which really, I think was a was a key factor in bringing my agency down. Like, because having having those consistent meals that I like, could learn what to Bolus for, like, throughout the week. And just every time it was easier, because like, I knew what to expect. That made it a lot easier.

Scott Benner 11:50
You know, I joked about this boy earlier, but it sounds like he was pretty invested in helping you

Emma 11:55
know, he's, he's, he's the best. And he, like, out of everyone in my life, even really, my parents like he gave to you, he's taking the most time to like, learn about type one. And like, he knows what most of my alarms mean. He knows what to do if anything happens. And he like cooks for me. And he learned how to carb cow, like, in a few weeks and was helpful in that way too. He like he learned how to tell me like when to Pre-Bolus and stuff because since he was cooking, he would be the one that would know when the food would be ready in 20 minutes. So you'd be like, Okay, I'm you need to Bolus now. Because you learned about Pre-Bolus thing and things like that. So that's really nice, amazing. Yeah,

Scott Benner 12:36
he deserves a long leash. In case he messes up. You know what I mean? Because eventually, it's going to screw something up. So just, you know, remember this part that he did learn about Pre-Bolus thing? So Oh, wow, that's really kind of that's wonderful. Especially because you're by yourself. I mean, there's nobody else there. How much do you allow friends and into this new world?

Emma 13:02
I kind of let them decide. I mean, like my roommate in college, she, she was like on my Dexcom. Obviously, she's learned less about it. But she kind of knows the ropes. I think I saw I do but okay, but if my friends were like, can I be on your Dexcom? I'll be like, yes. And I'll send them an invite, because I just I think that that's super cute for them to know how I'm doing. And I have, this is gonna sound so like young, but I have a private Snapchat story that's called diabetes diaries. And that's what I like, post on all the updates of like, and then the first few months it was like, I'm low or like, I'm high or like, this is me putting on my Dexcom or my Omnipod when I got that. Yeah, some of my friends are more invested than others. But the people I met story are the people that have like shown interest in learning about diabetes, which I think is really awesome.

Scott Benner 14:04
Can you tell me a little bit about wanting to share it that way? Like, what's the what's the reason it makes you like me? You don't I mean? Like, what makes you start doing that? What did you get from it or not get from it?

Emma 14:17
I think I don't know I because I'm not really someone who like puts everything on social media either. But like when I was diagnosed, I knew absolutely nothing about type one, even though I like I knew people. I had friends in high school who had type one, but they never really talked about it. So I didn't know anything. And I just there's so many like misconceptions and and stereotypes and like, just like things that people don't know so so. I don't know I like to advocate for people with type one.

Scott Benner 14:53
It feels it felt important then to help other people understand the reality of what had happened deal? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Do you think you did that? Do you think you reach people and, and change their opinions or educated them?

Emma 15:08
I think so. I think so I think, but it really it's, it's about, like how much you as an individual wants to receive the information, you know, because you can just like, swipe on the story and skip it. You know, it's, it's up to the individual, but I do have great friends who, who have been invested and learning, which is great.

Scott Benner 15:31
Yeah, of course. No, I mean, you're just putting it out there. It's, it's up to other people to pick it up or not. But I'm just wondering if you actually saw people responding. That was beyond like, Oh, I'm sorry. Like if they if they got interested, like, if you really felt like you left them with something? No,

Emma 15:46
I think I did. Like when I, oh, whenever I get my new a one sees, oh, like posted on there. And more often than not like, probably five people will be like, well swipe up and respond and be like, yeah.

Scott Benner 16:00
That's really great. That's excellent. Is it something you kept up with? Or did they die off after a bit?

Emma 16:04
No, I still post on that I posted today. I was like, gonna be a guest on my favorite diabetes podcast. So good vibes. And everyone's like, yeah.

Scott Benner 16:15
Are you on a different podcast after we record this?

Emma 16:17
Oh, no.

Scott Benner 16:20
I'm just kidding. I was trying to be humble and funny. At the same time, it didn't work. I apologize. Okay, so you said you were doing a lot of reading online? Is that where you found out about the podcast? No.

Emma 16:32
So I found out about it, really in the hospital. But I didn't start listening until until later. But I saw I in the hospital, I was like, doing crazy Googling, just like googling every question that popped into my head as you do. And at the time, I was 20. And was going to turn 21 in like a month. And so I was like, like, what's the deal with drinking and like alcohol? Because obviously, that is a factor, but I don't know what that is. And every like, Article I would find on Google was like, don't drink, like maybe like one, but like, it's not safe. So like, just don't. And I was like, I I'm in college. Like I'm about turn 21 Like, that's not gonna be real life for me.

Scott Benner 17:24
I'm sorry. That's an incorrect answer. Yeah, I was gonna add, I was funny. You said I looked into questions that I thought of, and I thought, Oh, I actually wrote down in front of me, like, ask her some of the questions that she asked. And you were like drinking, were there other ones besides drinking? Or was that really the main focus?

See, Emma, that was funny because you come off. So like, you come off so nicely, like very, like, mature and like everything. That's like, I wonder what she asked about. And then when you said that, I was like, oh, okay, that checks out. So did you figure out how to drink?

Emma 18:01
Yeah, so Okay, so after that, I was like, This can't be real. I know that people will type one drink. So I joined a Facebook group, which was not yours. I will tell you that it was not yours. It was a different one. And I made a post and I was like, hey, like, I just got diagnosed, sitting in the hospital, about turning 21 Like, what to do with drinking any like advice, or like, tips and tricks would be welcome. And I got like, like, probably, like, just dozens of comments and ranging from like, No, I don't drink or like, Yeah, I'll have a beer. Or like a wine works for me. seltzers whatever. And then people were like, Don't Bolus because you'll go high but then you'll come crashing down. Things like that. Other people were like, no, just smoke weed like don't mess with alcohol. People are like

Scott Benner 18:51
skip vodka go right to morphine.

Emma 18:56
Yeah, so like plenty of times of advice. And then one of them was like, listen to this episode of his podcast and it was a link to the one of your after dark episodes about

Scott Benner 19:07
alcohol. Oh, sure. Yeah, I remember doing that one. Yeah,

Emma 19:11
and so I didn't listen in the hospital because I was overwhelmed and sleeping a lot but about like probably a week after I got out I listened to that episode. And then I just like couldn't get enough I just kept listening and listening and it was truly information that saved my life because like it's not information that you can get like readily anywhere because it's like real from like real people who Yeah, who you know

Scott Benner 19:37
you don't you don't think one of the big pharma companies is gonna do a big blog posts on how to get loaded while you have type one diabetes.

Emma 19:45
But probably not

Scott Benner 19:47
that person in that episode now, by the way is a is a mommy she like has a baby. Cool. That's great. Yeah, it's been a while now. Okay, so I so Uncle Scott taught you how to drink with your insulin that and that should be on my tombstone, don't you think I wonder how many people but that's just that's, that's terrific. And you did get to it quickly, like you said, Oh, I didn't do it right away in the hospital because I was tired. But a week or so later is, I think an indication of how much you wanted to drink. Am I right?

Emma 20:21
I mean, the time clock was ticking. There was like, a less than probably three weeks that I had to figure it out.

Scott Benner 20:27
Mom got important things I gotta figure out over here. I got number five on my list. Where does this insulin come from? Number two is how do I get drunk? That's excellent. Exactly. You have any kind of depression or sadness after you were diagnosed? No,

Emma 20:46
no, I had a good support system, which I think was really key. There was a lot of like, frustration of just like, it's a lot of like trying things and then then not working and then doing something differently next time. And I was like, learning things so quickly that it was like information overload. But But no, like, it didn't really affect it, honestly, honestly. Because for like three months about I my blood sugar's were like crazy high. And I just didn't know it. So I was like, super tired all the time. Obviously, like, you know, high. Being high is not fun. But I didn't know what I was just like, Oh, I'm burnt out from school, which is why I'm napping two times a day. And like, I'm irritable all the time. And whatever. So once I got my blood sugar's in range, like it was, honestly, you

Scott Benner 21:40
really I felt better. Yeah, you were relieved to have a reason for why you felt that way. Yeah, and none of you don't have any of those like your brain chemistry doesn't work. Like why me this isn't fair. I'm in college. I'm so young. None of that comes into your head. Oh,

Emma 21:55
I have I'm like once a month, I would say I have like a diabetes breakdown is what I call them. Like it just but you have to do that. Like you have to just get it out somehow. But most for the most part, I'm like, I'm doing okay. And I was doing okay,

Scott Benner 22:11
strong contender for the title of your episode. By the way. What is it was that diabetes breakdown? Yeah, it's got double entendre means different things gonna be fantastic. Okay, so I get that. Like, where does the breakdown go to? Like D throw something? Is it like loud cursing, screaming into a pillow crying? How does it happen? Just

Emma 22:32
like, just like, heavy crying? Like sobbing. Sobbing Yeah.

Scott Benner 22:38
I love the sob just. Yeah, it really is like, you feel better afterwards, don't

Emma 22:44
you? Truly? Yeah, yeah. And I'm like a crier in general. So this on top of that was it was it was bound to happen that way. I had one at school, which was not fun at all.

Scott Benner 22:55
Like in, in class or just in your dorm. Like

Emma 22:59
in like, the elementary school I was teaching at

Scott Benner 23:03
Oh, while you were teaching. Okay, we'll get back to that. Did you cry during the recent Guardians of the Galaxy film Guardians of the Galaxy? See? No, yeah. No spoilers. I'm not gonna spoil it for you. But I cried. And, and a little bit, not like bawling, but like tears, and you're watching a movie that is so clearly not reality. Or you cry during something like that. You say to yourself, yeah, I'm a person that can cry. Yes. That's really, that's a thing I can do. Okay, you should get out to see it, though. It was good. Okay, all right. Okay, so you get out of school, and you have a job, and you kind of fall apart at work. What led? Yeah.

Emma 23:45
So what happened? was, um, so my teacher, what my teachers, like, my mentor teachers at the schools knew I had diabetes. And like, I didn't know much, obviously. So like, when they would hear alarms, you'd be like, are you good? I'd be like, Yeah, fine. But there was one day where my teacher it was a Wednesday, so she had planning all day planning periods, no real classes with kids, which was fortunate for me because this happened. But she was saying yesterday, the day before that, that she was going to take me out to lunch or whatever. And I forgot about that. And I brought my lunch. And then 20 minutes before the time that we usually eat i Pre-Bolus Obviously, so that I could eat, but then like 10 minutes after that she like came in and was like, Do you want to leave for lunch and like overlong and I was like, Oh, yeah. And I didn't want to be like a bother. So I was like, Yeah, sure. And I was like, okay, maybe I can just like have something to eat now. So I want to have to have as many carbs and then it'll balance out and then I'll just like Bolus when I get there. And then, like the place that we were going to pick up food was like Closed. And then we like she, like didn't really do anything about it. And we just like moved on to like lesson planning. And I was like, oh,

Scott Benner 25:08
oh, she's like, bummer. This is closed. Let's go back to work. Yeah,

Emma 25:12
like, we'll just figure it out after like, I explained this lesson plan to you.

Scott Benner 25:16
And I was like, I'm just gonna be flipping around like a fish by then.

Emma 25:20
Exactly. And so then I was like, I just, I'll be right back. And I was like, okay, so I like, go to the vending machine in the lounge. And I was like, I'll just get like a soda, and then I'll just sleep on it, and it'll be okay. And then the vending machine was cash only, which that is so stupid, because cash doesn't exist anymore. That's not real money. Like, why would that be a thing? So I was like, freaking out.

Scott Benner 25:50
I was like, crying glass.

Emma 25:53
No, no, no. And there wasn't even like soda. It was like Gatorade. And I was like,

Scott Benner 25:58
what I want you're gonna get all this trouble to get into this machine to get something I don't even want. Oh, well, it

Emma 26:07
was horrible. It's horrible. And so then I like texted her and I was like, I just listen, I just need to eat lunch. And she was like, Okay, I understand. Like, let's let's do it. Let's eat. And it was just so frustrating. And then I went Hi, which was so annoying. It was so annoying with all that going on. And yeah, probably

Scott Benner 26:25
got hit pretty hard with some adrenaline when you realize there was no food. Yeah. So after all that, do you just melt down?

Emma 26:36
Yeah, yeah, like, mascara running down my cheeks. It was that. And we have lunch with the art teacher too. Who was like, also crazy in a good way. And I just got to like vent to them, which was, which was good.

Scott Benner 26:52
We all are, by the way, the art teachers. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, just like hippies. And, like, that kind of vibe. I remember my art teacher. I remember my art teacher when I was in middle school. Had a, like a cow's skull. And it had like real real cow skull that had like a bullet hole in it. So you can see that the cow was put down for meat. And then anytime someone looked at it, she would tell you about being a vegetarian. Like it was. Oh my God, it was her. It was her starter for like she wanted to bang the drum for not eating meat. And so that thing there I think I always got the vibe was that was supposed to horrify you. And then she I think she thought she was going to create a legion of vegetarians. No, no, but an artists art teacher in high school. She's like, she's so nice and gentle. And like, that's how she talks about her like she's gentle. And it's just interesting. So these ladies were I'm sorry, they were ladies. Yeah, yeah, these ladies were supportive and understanding. They just listened. Did you feel supported?

Emma 28:05
Yeah, I did. Yeah. And then my, the art teachers stepdad also has type one who was she's close with her stepdad. And so she was like, she was like, Yeah, my stepdad like, he'll just be beeping all day. And because he's like, low all day is what she said. Like, and he just my mom, her mom and her are like, you'd have to eat a little something like every few hours and you'll be okay. But he's like waking up in the night because he's low. And so I try to like give her a little, like, usually lower Basal maybe, but those words don't mean anything to her. So I don't know. But they were very understanding.

Scott Benner 28:45
I have one more question about that moment. The the end when it's mascara and everything that's happening is that frustration, anger. Fear. What was motivating, your,

Emma 29:00
your feelings? Definitely. frustration and anger too. Because I get frustrated about like, like the situation. And then it's just like a broader anger of like, why is this happening in my life? Like, because there's no reason like my family doesn't have autoimmune stuff. So at

Scott Benner 29:21
all, we don't have celiac somewhere. Nothing.

Emma 29:24
No, which is so annoying. It's so annoying. baranda that was me.

Scott Benner 29:29
Yeah. Your diagnosis was it precipitated by a virus of any kind?

Emma 29:34
I think so. They never said that. But I got sick in December of my junior year. And then I like never really like it like took months for me for like the cough to go away. And then that kind of lines up with my agency to being so high. It was about three months after that, that I got diagnosed

Scott Benner 29:57
so you know what kind of illness it was? No, just like a cold. Okay, but you couldn't shake it? No. I'm sorry. Almost like your immune system was busy doing something else. Yeah, beating your pancreas.

Emma 30:13
Right. Yeah. Absolutely. So after after I got sick. That was when I started seeing the symptoms that I know now we're high blood sugars, like thirsty all the time. I was like, paying a lot like waking up in the night to go to the bathroom, and stuff. And what's super funny is that when all that was happening, I was so thirsty all the time, I was craving juice. So I would like whenever I'd go to like the store to get something or like the market at school, I would be like, Who wants us to I want because I was a self proclaimed juice girl, which is hilarious because it was just dragging my blood sugar was so high. I know it. And I would feel like garbage after I like was dreaming. I was juice. But

Scott Benner 30:58
were people calling you juice girl, or was this just something you had attached yourself?

Emma 31:03
No, I was just like, I was just like, Oh, I'm gonna use Chrome. No good juice.

Scott Benner 31:09
I don't think juice girl beats out diabetes breakdown, but I'll jot it down. Don't Don't worry. I'll jot it down. Don't use girl. That's the worst superhero. Yeah. to do with that, like score people in the face with a little straw. Maybe you're not gonna stop much crime, though. What? If? You know, I don't know if you've done this, but I'm going to ask have you given any consideration to how this impacted you with the age you were diagnosed versus how it would have been if you were younger? When it happened?

Emma 31:43
I do. Yeah. I so I think that because because my parents are wonderful. Like, they're really wonderful people. And they've always been invested in my growth and my school and everything like that. And so I think that if I was diagnosed younger, they would have had a huge part to play in my management and stuff. And my dad is someone who is super, super smart. And I think that he would get a handle on it really quickly. Sort of like you his name was also Scott, which I think is is it really? Because yeah, because he's like my dad, and then you're like my, like diabetes that

Scott Benner 32:25
oh, so nice. But

Emma 32:29
so, so yeah, I think that they would have had a big part to play my management. But since I was away from home when it happened and sort of like not really relying on them, like they haven't learned that much about it. And they like visited me for the first time, like, three months after it happened. And they were like, I was like doing injections. And they were just kind of like staring which like, be like, obviously you would be like curious about it. And whenever we're together they like will ask questions and things but they I don't know. They're so I story. It was the fourth of July this summer after I was diagnosed. And they were basically like, okay, just tell us like what you need us to do. I was like, okay, like, just tell me like 20 minutes before we'll eat. We're eating lunch and I'll Pre-Bolus They were like, okay, boiler alert. That did not happen. They were like, Okay, grab a play. And I was like, oh, okay, so I

Scott Benner 33:32
want you to do one thing.

Emma 33:36
Right? And then they realized, and they're like, Oh, we can wait. And I was like, okay, whatever. So I was like, I was like trying to like carb count. I was looking at like, the packages that were in the trash of like the hamburger buns and things like that. And, like trying to count up all these carbs. And then my mom was like, my mom was like Emma like, hurry. Like, why aren't you doing it? So we can like eat? You lady. I'd be like, you asked me what you can do. I know. Like, oh, so that was also another breakdown that I had. And I like had to like leave like went to the bedroom. And I was just like sobbing. And wait, hold on. Can you hear me my I think my iPad just died.

Scott Benner 34:23
I mean, I can but if your air pod died, we're in trouble.

Emma 34:27
Now you're good once so like we're still alive. In the case. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so I was like, sobbing and she like, came to see me and she was like, I'm sorry. Like, do you like tell me what's going on? And I was like, you're just like, don't know anything. I don't know why you don't know anything like like, why haven't you like, done your research? Like, you should be like, I have type one. Like you should know these things. And she was like, Well, it's hard because like you're not around to like, ask questions and stuff. And I remember Like I was like, read a book. Like I do I do get it because because I'm also someone that would probably be in the same boat as them. I

Scott Benner 35:12
don't know about that you you got right to it when you were diagnosed?

Emma 35:15
Yeah, but But I mean, they like I can't stress enough like how I

Scott Benner 35:21
love why No, they're lovely. You love them. We're just telling a story, I hear you. But pick through this for a second because you hit on something that crushes me as a parent. Two things, actually, you teed me up to be very upset. So there's two things that I struggle with a lot. And the first thing is, I always wonder, just on a very human level, is there somewhere in the back of their mind that your parents are just relieved that you're an adult when this happened to you? And that they're just like, me, like, I, I'm so glad I don't have to be involved in this. Or are they relieved, but sad that they're relieved? Because it's hard to let go of it. Like Arden texted us last night, like, I can't, I can't stress enough, my wife and I had a really nice day yesterday. And we get in bed. And we're actually talking about how nicely the day went. This is the part where if we were younger, we would have sex, but instead, Emma were older. So we chat about how nice the day is, right? And we're talking about it. And Arden sends a text that she's having trouble with something. And you my first thought is, I am so sorry. And upset that she's not here so I can help her. And then there is a little party that's like, I guess she's gonna have to take care of it on her own. And that's good for her too. And maybe that'll alleviate the guilt, I feel about not being able to be there. And so like, that's a whole thing that happens with your kids. And you were probably your parents were probably like, like, you seem like a lovely person. So when you're like this age, and almost on college, they're probably like, huh, Emma, we got her right. Like, she's gonna go get a job and teach kids how to sing. And she's lovely. And she met that boy and he cooks for and they're probably like, pretty comfortable. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden, you have a need that mimics a childhood need. And they're not there. They feel disconnected. They think, oh, okay, well, she's gonna have to get it. It's gonna be good for her to figure it out. And then they let go of it. I imagined but then they see you in person. And you say they're looking at you. I'm gonna give you another perspective on that moment, when they said, Can we help? And you said, let me know. 20 minutes before dinner. I'm gonna guess they were heartbroken watching you give yourself your insulin. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna guess they were mortified, heartbroken, felt lost and useless and didn't know what to do. Now, granted, they could have got off on the right foot by setting a timer, or something. But, but um, but but that's my guess is that they probably felt useless in that moment. And that's, that's not an easy thing to feel as a parent. So that's my side of it. But you're in the room yelling at her that she should have done something. Go ahead. I'm sorry. From there.

Emma 38:21
No, I mean, that was basically it. I mean, yeah, let it go. Ya know, and from then on, like, they got good about about giving me a heads up about when they'll be ready. Because I'm home. My mom cooks and so

Scott Benner 38:36
she don't wanna get she want to get. She's like, Oh, I see where this is going. This girl's aggressive. Do you think you're a different person now than you were when you left for college?

Emma 38:47
Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I've done a lot of growing. And in the last four years, definitely. That's hard

Scott Benner 38:54
to as a parent to, for you to come back and not be the person you were when you left? Yeah, you know, and there's so much that I find the unknown to be the most difficult part. Like right now. My kids are somewhere doing something. I have a vague idea of where they are and a vague idea of what they're doing. But they're having these experiences. And these moments, seemingly, like hourly that I'm not there for, and it's very upsetting. I don't I don't know another way to put it like i I wish there was a way for you, Emma to have all the privacy you wanted and for your mom to be able to watch your life on closed circuit television. Because she feels like you're becoming a person that she doesn't know. And it's it's a very, very upsetting I don't even know what better way to say it. It's it's incredible. Anyway,

Emma 39:53
I mean, I don't I don't I would have talked to her about it, but I don't I don't know about that. I mean, I've been in like middle school and high school. Have we like fought all the time? Because we're so similar. But now like, we're really good friends like I texture. Probably every other day we call the time. And we're a lot closer than we were, then.

Scott Benner 40:14
Well, you, you you feel close to her because you're an adult now. But she felt closer to you when you were seven? Probably.

Emma 40:22
Yeah, no. And yesterday was Mother's Day. And so I asked her, like, what was your favorite age that we weren't like to be a mom? And she was like, yeah, probably elementary school, because like, y'all would come home from school, and we would my brother and I have a brother who's two years older than me. And y'all would come home from school, and we would just like cuddle on the couch. And y'all would tell me about your day. And I would I would ask you like, do you think you'll ever grow out of it out of this? No, we're like, no, never will always do this. So

Scott Benner 40:53
every kid thinks they're gonna live across the street, when they grow up. Yeah, like, I'll just I'll go to the place across the street and live there. So we can be near each other. Yeah, my kids would come home, and we'd sit in the kitchen and talk about the day. And you know, spend a little time and then they'd eat something and you'd keep talking. And it's one of my favorite times to, but not that this isn't a good thing, the part where you're an adult. And by the way, if it wasn't for death, Emma, I would be down with this part. Except I'm getting old. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so I don't want to, I don't know. It just feels like, it feels like things happen in big sections. And then at some part, point, one of my kids is gonna get married or something like that. And then the next thing, you know, like, I'm going to be the old guy at the wedding. And then they'll make a baby maybe. And a few years later, I'll be the guy that comes around and sees the baby sometimes. And like, it just feels like you're like moments in your life away. And when they're, when they're little. Like when you were little. It feels like you have forever. I know, these are cliche things to say, but they are absolutely true. So anyway, my point is they really did let you down by not telling you about when dinner was coming. And these people are bastards, and they really have to try harder.

Emma 42:10
they text me every time that I'm low. Whenever they get a LOW Alert. They they're like

Scott Benner 42:15
the first people to text. How do you handle that? Are you good with that? Yeah, well,

Emma 42:19
normally I I have it under control, because I usually like see loads coming before they happen because I'm like, just constantly checking my blood sugar is kind of crazy. And so I'll just don't really take stock and be like, yeah, treating it or like just changed my sensor. So it's like, fake you know, those things.

Scott Benner 42:38
If I scroll back through my text with Arden for the last week, what you would see is, do you think it's okay, if I park here with photos of where she parked? A soap she wants me to send to her which I've taken care of. And then just a string of like, stop. I know. Leave me alone stop. Oh, the table ripped off my arm the pod there was a no and she just Oh God didn't had this thing that happened to her at school. That it just it's a cascading event that just kept cascading. And it was just she was in class and turned around and never and I really mean this. I'm genuinely saying this. Arden has been using a nominee pod since she was four. She's almost 19 This is the only one I've ever remembered getting knocked off. But she gets she gets knocked off in class. She's sick. I'm gonna be back soon she goes back home ends up not feeling well and being tired and then falling asleep before she replaced her pump. So luckily, she was having luckily she was having like a low before that. So the low Helder for hours that we didn't know like so we're looking at her blood sugar blood sugar is like rock solid. And by the way on Nightscout everything looks okay because she didn't disk she didn't disconnect the pods. The pod was still running. It was in her purse pumping insulin when she needed when it was trying to pump insulin right. But she's asleep the whole time. And then I'm texting her I'm like Arden like something's wrong. Your blood sugar is going up. Bla bla bla, she doesn't wake up right away. She finally gets up. And then I'm like, I don't understand. Like I see a Bolus thing but your blood sugar is not acting like it. And then finally, finally she tells me what happened. So the the pods like in her purse bolusing. And her blood she's asleep doesn't feel well in her blood sugar shooting up. So then I'm like, I'm like Arlen. Listen, you know, we have to test here because you you know, we don't want you to go into decay. You haven't had insulin for hours, like you know, this whole thing. And she's like, I'm not DKA and I'm like, I don't think that's how that works that you just get to decide you're not. And she's like I already put a new pot on. I made a big Bolus. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna start Don't wind down. And I'm like, All right. And she really did handle it. Like she took care. She took care of it. But it's a good example of like a whole bunch of like events like just a confluence of events that led to a moment where, like, if I wasn't watching her blood sugar and trying to wake her up, I don't know how long she would have slept. Maybe she would have woken up and DK is very scary. You should not have children, Emma, it is a thing. It's very upsetting. Very, very upsetting, then you love them. And then stuff like this happens. And it just takes years off your life. Yes, terrible. Yeah, yeah, don't do it.

Emma 45:40
My biggest fear is having a kid because I'm definitely gonna have kids. But my biggest fear is one of them. Getting type one. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:48
I know that could happen. Yeah, before you were like that can happen, which by the way it could have. But now you're like that. Now you're actually worried about

Emma 45:57
it? Yeah, no, I had a breakdown about that to Europe,

Scott Benner 46:00
in Europe. How'd you get to go to Europe? First of all fancy? What do you do?

Emma 46:04
I've been to Europe a few times. But this particular time was with the choir that I sing in school, we did a European tour for like two weeks, which was awesome.

Scott Benner 46:18
That's amazing. I knew but you had a breakdown in Europe, while you're singing about the fact that you might have a baby one day and it maybe could have diabetes.

Emma 46:29
Not what I was singing, but it was we. So I don't know, school trips are weird in college, because you're all adults. So you can do whatever you want. So we had tons of free time. And at night, especially. And so people would you know, go out obviously. So we were at this bar, and in in London, and I asked for a Diet Coke and rum, obviously. And then I started drinking and then my blood sugar was like, spiking like nobody's business. And I was like, this is not diet. And so that kind of just like set me off. Because it was just annoying. And so I was like crying outside of the bar on the street and on the phone with my boyfriend who was in Miami. And just like just having a breakdown.

Scott Benner 47:22
Because because the bartender gave you regular soda.

Emma 47:25
Yeah, yeah. Which like what is that about?

Scott Benner 47:28
This lead to? What about the part where you're upset about the kid? Maybe the future?

Emma 47:33
It just whatever. I like have these breakdowns? Like once a month, it just kind of like spirals you know? Okay.

Scott Benner 47:40
Have you tried, I just recorded an episode, it's coming out this week. About the 54321 method for like counting. It's Erica did a lot of the talking during this episode. So I want to make sure that I'm gonna get it right. So

Emma 47:58
like five things you see, and then like four things you can touch and like,

Scott Benner 48:03
yes, grounding techniques. Have you ever tried that? Yeah. No.

Emma 48:09
I kind of I don't know. I think I think the breakdowns are like necessary. You know what? something

Scott Benner 48:17
worse? So you kind of want to have the outlet. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I think first when you break down. You seem so nice. Do you do curse though, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I love cursing. And I love doing it when I'm upset too. Yeah. It really is the best. Alright. So you do pretty well, taking care of yourself. Obviously, your agencies are sound like they're great. And you're doing well. Do you struggle with anything? Like

Emma 48:49
the diabetes? Why? Yeah. Well, okay, so my, I've had type one for a year. And since I was diagnosed about like, like six months after I was diagnosed, I got sick for the first time, which was horrible. By the way, I would not recommend because it's so much harder than when you don't have to have one. Yeah, you're talking

Scott Benner 49:14
about real people sick, like you got the flu or something like that.

Emma 49:17
It was just the cold but it was horrible. It was like the worst ever. I felt like I was dying because I was feeling horrible. Because I was sick. But then my blood sugar's were, like high all the time, because my resistance was way up. So that would just make me feel worse. But after that, my insulin needs in general were like a lot higher. And so I had to kind of like figure out my new ratios. And then I was on a pump at that point. So it was, like, easy, just like, you know, do the math and put it in the poem. But when with with those bigger boluses because I was using so much more insulin Sometimes, like my pump couldn't handle it and like absorption wise, like it wasn't really working. So like my pump would leak, and then I would have to like, change it early. And then I didn't know how much insulin I really got, because it leaked. And I was doing a lot of like, Phantom carbs after my meals, like, just because I was high and I wanted to get it down, I would say I was eating like 20 carbs. And then even though I wasn't in my endo has gotten one thing about that, because she didn't like to do that. But, um, I don't know, we're finding ways to, to stop doing that. So Gotcha. That's been that's been a challenge. Like just the insulin needs always going up. Because we at my last appointment, we just did my C peptides, which is a measure of, of your, like, the functionality of your pancreas. And mine is like at point eight, which is just like in the frame of normal, like, very low, but, but in the normal range. And so mindful needs are only going to go up from here.

Scott Benner 51:05
Whoa, you are having like a lot of experience. Like, like a latent, like a slow onset of your actual, like, full need for insulin. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. So you're adjusting, having to adjust more and more and more as time goes on. pretty consistently, too, right? Yeah, like a slow drift away.

Emma 51:30
Yeah. And so I've just started, because my doctor after all this stuff, prescribed me ozempic, which is for type two, but it makes you more sensitive to insulin. And so I've been on that for like a week and it's like cut my insulin needs and like half

Scott Benner 51:49
crazy use on I was Empik for a year. Will you come back on and talk about it with me? Oh, yeah, for sure. You I'm on week govi. It's the same Joe. Oh, cool. It was empty. Can we go v are the same molecule. They get different names. So they can be. They can be used for different things. So I'm prescribed we go V for weight loss. You would be prescribed ozempic for type two diabetes, weight loss. How are you getting it for type one? What's your diagnosis? That leads to you getting it?

Emma 52:25
I guess

Scott Benner 52:26
like high insulin resistance? Yeah. And your insurance company paid for it? Yeah. Oh, well, well, well, that's good news. Are you on your own insurance but that school? No, it's my dad. I was gonna say are you on? Like somebody who's had like, been making money for 35 years insurance? Yeah, those insurances are usually better. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. How you can stay on your dad's insurance for a few more years. So you're 26 Yeah. Scott's insurance? Yeah. I don't love my name, by the way.

Emma 53:03
Well, my dad's name. That's first name is actually Christopher. And his middle name is Scott. So if you chose Scott,

Scott Benner 53:09
really? Yeah, choose Scott or Christopher along. I don't know. I don't use my name. Like my name doesn't get used often. Like nobody calls me Scott. Well, they call you nothing. Do people call you Emma? Like, is that how people get your attention?

Emma 53:28
Yeah. Or Miss gladden?

Scott Benner 53:31
Do you want your last name in there? Or should I take that up? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Yeah, I am. I don't nobody says my name. My mom once in a while, maybe. But yeah, don't I think dad probably called me stupid the other day. I don't think she was even kidding. It was very hurtful. I said you think I'm stupid? She goes sometimes. It's like, oh, God, really ruin my afternoon? Yeah. Yeah. Tell me a little bit. I mean, I'm remiss if I don't ask, right. Like you've hinted at it two or three times now. You like the podcast? I do. What do you what do you get from it?

Emma 54:15
Oh, gosh, I think just everything I've learned about diabetes has has been from the podcast as many like journals and books and things that I read when I was first diagnosed, like this was the most helpful information because it was so accessible and like I could just listen to it in the car or, or when I'm walking you know, and, and I don't know, I think that what you do is so, so valuable because it just helps so many people and and like I can't count how many people I've like recommended the podcast to whether they're like people with type one or like, family members that I've sent episodes to I just I think that it's it's so valuable. All right, you do.

Scott Benner 55:00
So I'm happy, very, very happy that you that you enjoy it and it's doing something for you. That's how it goes, like you just described how a podcast gets bigger. Yeah, cuz it really doesn't move without the listeners sharing it with other people. And then eventually it would die if they didn't do that. So it's very cool that you that it means enough to you and, and is valuable enough to the chair with somebody else. I appreciate that very much. So this is a management thing for you like you got management ideas from the podcast. Yeah,

Emma 55:33
well, and after dark episodes do or just listen to for fun, like the one about a stripper and like all like the ones about like, drug users and things like that. I just think those are so interesting. Just another, another take on this disease and how it affects, you know, people Yeah, I

Scott Benner 55:53
love. I love talking to people, and it doesn't matter what their story is really, like, I really enjoy hearing it. I interviewed a nine year old girl the other day. And I had such a good time it Wait, wait, do you like she sarcasm, she was too young for sarcasm. So like I was, I don't know, you're just gonna have to listen to it. It's, I It's such a fun time talking to her. But I just love hearing from people. And yeah, you know, their perspectives, their ideas, like even talking to you and seeing, you know, like, you're an interesting mix of people, right? Like, you're a serious person, you're thoughtful, you're smart, you took a lot of care to learn about your own health. And at the same time, you were like, I need to know how to drink. And like it's just, that's it's a, it's a good insight into the people are complex, and nothing's as simple as it seems even even with the the, the story you told about your parents, like is very honest. And I think it'll help people to understand that, you know, everybody's not going to just understand their diabetes right away. And it's, it's going to take some communication and work to build that, you know, like, we were able to build it with your boyfriend, because he's there. And, you know, if your parents were there, you'd build something with them, too. But it wouldn't be the same as what you have with your boyfriend. And everybody can kind of have a slightly different piece of this and bring something to the support network that you have. So very cool. That's wonderful. Is there things we haven't talked about yet that we should have? I want to I don't want to miss anything.

Emma 57:31
I don't know. I mean, I travel a lot. So I could, yeah, talk a little bit about that. But did you

Scott Benner 57:39
have to travel once when you were newly diagnosed? Or did you have time to pull it together before you started?

Emma 57:44
My first I took a trip to California in March after I was diagnosed, so about a month after I was diagnosed. And that was hard because I was still figuring things out. And I was also MDI, which is just less convenient than having a pump to Yeah, I also like I was staying at my at my roommates house with her family. And I actually left my insulin in the fridge, which was an issue. I've done that twice now, which is not great.

Scott Benner 58:16
abated your insulin at someone's home. Yeah,

Emma 58:19
it was an Airbnb. Well, no. So my roommates mom brought it to Miami the next time that she came down, which was great. But the other time I left it, it was an Airbnb, and I didn't get it back, which was

Scott Benner 58:33
great. They sold it on the black market.

Emma 58:35
I don't know, because it was it was at a hotel. But it was also an Airbnb. So the people that they had come clean wasn't through the hotel. So I like tried to call the hotel and they were like, Oh, we don't. That's not our cleaning. So like we don't know. And then I couldn't really contact the host anymore because of other things. And and

Scott Benner 58:56
Yeah, somebody wouldn't just walk upstairs and look for you. I guess not. People suck. Why would they not do that? Did you tell them like it's important? It's expensive. It's etc? Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah, we know we already sold it on eBay.

Emma 59:12
Right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:14
I once had a conversation with somebody about a lost the iPad. And they're like, yeah, like, we don't know what I'm like, you know, I can track the iPad. It's exactly where you are. Really? Yeah. They're like, No, let me know it is. Right there in the building. You're in you Sure. You don't have it now? Then. All of a sudden, I couldn't track it anymore. I was like, Oh, so you shut it off. No, my great. I said, Well, I hope you choke on the money that you get for selling my iPads. Go for yourself. But yeah, I got off the phone. But it Yeah, I don't know. Hopefully it wasn't that for you. But I'm, I'm cynical. I'm assuming. I'm assuming somebody saw it was like, Oh, my grandmother uses insulin to change, you know? Yeah. Anyway,

Emma 59:57
I mean, it's so expensive nowadays, but yeah, It's also just with traveling, keeping it at the right temperature and everything is really hard. And yeah. So

Scott Benner 1:00:07
how do you do that? How did you figure out how to do it?

Emma 1:00:09
Well, I keep it in a water bottle now. But when I went on this, this European tour with my choir, there was almost an incident because we had had flown to London, I think. And we got to the, to the airport. And then we had a bus that was there with this, like, British bus driver who was hilarious, but he like wanted nothing like did not want us to touch the bags going into the like, underneath the bus, because it was like Tetris, and he was like the best at it. So he did all the bags, and I was like stressing me out that he was yelling at people helping. So I just kind of sort of like, left my bags there and then went up to the bus. And then like, 30 minutes after we were on the bus, I realized that my insulin was in my carry on that was underneath the bus. That was probably not cool down there. Yeah. And I was like, oh my god, we have like, a week left of this trip and am I just gonna have spoiled insulin. So I freaked out to not break down, which was fortunate. But I like told the bus driver and we were like, on the way to Westminster Abbey. And he was like, okay, when we get there, we're like, open up underneath the bus and, and I take medications to them to be cold. And I totally understand. And he was really sweet about it. And then he there was like this little cooler compartment like on the bus that was for like waters that he would sell us and he was like, you can keep your insulin in here every day from now on. Like, don't worry about it, which was really kind I don't know, I just I find that with diabetes. Like you just you just find people who care everywhere. Which is wonderful. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:01:51
I will tell you that we travel with Arden's insulin vials in a sort of like a, I don't know, like one of those stainless steel cups that keeps things cold for like a month. And yeah, you know, I put a little bit of ice in the bottom. And then usually the vials, we actually put the vials in like a plastic bag to keep them dry. And usually put like a little bit of a paper towel around them just to keep them like cushioned a little. And then they go the bag and everything goes in and then more ice on top. And then I find that can stay cold for days like that. I

Emma 1:02:27
think you've mentioned that before. And that's what I do now because I do do that. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:02:31
good, good, good. Plus, it's a little shock resistant. And it's small enough that if you can, like even when you've got a ton of bags, you can either put it somewhere, you know if it's or you can carry it with you, and you don't lose it. It's heavy enough. You know you have it with you. You don't I mean, like you don't lose track of it. Like there's a lot of good stuff. We're actually thinking of going on a impromptu trip pretty soon to a warm weather place.

Emma 1:02:55
So I think you're not going to tell me where is it Miami? No,

Scott Benner 1:02:59
but we'll probably fly over Miami getting to it. Oh, yeah, just my a couple of times in our life, we vacation in St. John, in the Virgin Islands. When my kids were little Arden's coming home from college. All of her friends are actually home from college. And they're overlapping exactly at the same time. And Kelly's like maybe, maybe all the girls would want to go like we could kind of split the cost a little bit and make it doable. So we're thinking, we're looking into that this week, maybe we might end up doing that. But yeah, it would be lovely actually, to see them all. Because they're older now. And it's weird. Like one of them came over last night when they got home from college to say hi, and just look at and you're like, God, you're like 19 Now it's ridiculous. You know, so So you're doing well traveling, counting on other people. Little bit. Little kindness, little thoughtfulness. I was interested that you. You got pressured when the stuff was going in the bus?

Emma 1:04:01
Yeah, I just get anxious about things like that. And so I forget things that I need. I think about other people too much. I'm like, what do you need? I need you feel okay, what's happening right now. So I use forget about myself,

Scott Benner 1:04:15
I would have been like, I don't care what you're saying my insolence in here. You're not touching that. But. But that's, that's okay, though. I mean, you worked it out. Right. And you did stand up like, once you once you had your wits about you were like, I have to do something about this. Yeah, you handle that. Well. Do you think you're gonna get married like soon or do you think you'll get married later?

Emma 1:04:34
Within the next like, three to five years, probably. I've been dating my boyfriend for three and a half years. And we're both music educators. So we're on like, the same path in life and, and I just I can't imagine doing life with anyone else. So it'll happen eventually. I just don't know.

Scott Benner 1:04:53
That's very nice. Good for you. Yeah, not too soon. Not too late. Right in the middle. Here. I like it. I got married too soon.

Emma 1:05:02
I know you're married when you were really young, my wife would say the same thing.

Scott Benner 1:05:07
She might have been saying it. While she was calling me stupid the other day. I don't know if it's worked out or not. I've only been married for 26 years, it could all still fall apart. No, maybe? Who knows? I'm just saying there's no way to know. You know, like I said to that nine year old girl when I was interviewing her the other day, I asked her, she was from Canada. So I did all my Canadian humor on one little kid who didn't understand that I was kidding. It's fantastic. You know, and I'm just like, I'm like, how do you get there? And she's like, in a car. I'm like, there are cars in Canada and shoes. Yes. And I'm like, Are there really are and it's because yesterday, I didn't think you had cars. And she goes, yeah, there's cars everywhere. I'm like, I said, you know, for sure there's cars in America. And she goes, Yeah, I'm like, Have you ever been here? She goes, No. And I said, Well, how do you know for sure there are cars here? And she goes, there are? And I said, Are you in a room right now? And she goes, yes. I said, is the door closed? And she goes, yes. I said, Look at the door. She looks at the door, and I go, is there a clown standing on the other side of that door? She goes, No. And I went, are you sure? No. And I'm like, Are you sure there are cars in America?

Emma 1:06:22
That's so funny. I love messing with kids. It's my favorite thing. That's why I love working with kids so much that there's so fun to mess with.

Scott Benner 1:06:28
I thought she needed a critical thinking exercise. I was like, I told him like, there's probably not a cloud on the other side of the door. But you don't know for certain. And so she was like, Yeah, I guess not. I was like, right on. So are there cars in America? And she goes, I think so. But I'm not sure. And I'm like, good for you. Excellent. Now we're learning how to fish. And I was amusing myself, because, as you may imagine, there's not a ton to talk to a nine year old about.

Emma 1:06:57
Right? Yeah. Well, yeah. When my kids, my kids would ask them, like, how old are you? I'm like, Yeah, I'm 16 or four. They're like, No, you're not like, Well, how do you know? Maybe I am? Like, I'm like, Yeah, I'm six foot four. And they're like, Okay, I don't really know

Scott Benner 1:07:18
what to do with it. They're just young enough to like, not know what to do and not just call you on it, like a couple years older, and they'll be like, hey, that lady's crazy. Just so everyone knows, like, stay away from her. told me about being a vegan. I know the wait, that was Scott's teacher. Oh, by the way, I don't care if you want to be a vegan. Just a weird way to go about trying to indoctrinate a nine year old. You don't

Emma 1:07:39
know. I agree. Like, whatever.

Scott Benner 1:07:40
Yeah, it's okay. But you could draw the skull, which was very helpful in the class.

Emma 1:07:47
That was different than other reasons for it. At least.

Scott Benner 1:07:50
I'm hoping she also was using it for that reason, and just whatever she is that it's amazing. Like, that woman's probably not with us anymore. Like I was nine and she was 40. So, I mean, that was 40. I mean, maybe she is but it's so weird. I can picture in my head. She's like a pretty like a pretty lady that didn't shave her armpits. That's how that's how I remember her and a lot of flowing dresses and moccasins and things like that. She was lovely. She really was. Oh, God. I hope she's not that. Time goes by so fast. You have no idea. What do we what are we done? Are we good? We're done. You feel good about this. You're like, No, we didn't get any of the things. How can I do for you is what I'm asking.

Emma 1:08:40
No, we're doing great. I just want to keep talking because this is fun. But oh,

Scott Benner 1:08:43
we can keep talking. What do you want to keep? It's like it's it's over an

Emma 1:08:47
hour and I know that an hour is about so I don't want to be if no one's gonna listen to a two hour long episode. Sometimes

Scott Benner 1:08:53
they know. But yeah, you don't want to be a sinner. You don't know the word. Yeah. Do you know that we're actually don't know. Okay. I think it's the dish.

Emma 1:09:03
Dish, okay. But you don't know what it means.

Scott Benner 1:09:06
I mean, I can use it in a sentence. Like a beggar or a scrounger. A layabout. You don't want to you don't want to you don't want to like try to get more out of this than Is there a beggars basically? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, a sponger a beggar, Schnur s ch, n o r r. Er. Can I tell you a story? Since you want to talk more? Yeah, no, yeah, go for it. two weekends ago, I spoke in a private event. And this private event was completely for Orthodox Jews, adult couples, hey, you know, one side of the couple had type one on the other side was the spouse and they were there to learn about diabetes stuff. This was like a two and a half day event. So I am immediately excited because I'm going to be able to test my Yiddish like, right, which I am assume is bad. And people will be able to, like, you know, help me with my pronunciation of my understanding and stuff like that. I had a couple of a couple of times where it actually worked out for me pretty well. At one point, I was giving a talk to like 400 people, if you can imagine. And somebody said, thank you. I said, No, no, it's my pleasure. Can I ask you to do something for me? And they're like, yes. And I said, How's my pronunciation on this? And they looked at me really quizzically, and I went hockey, me and China, UK. Oh, so much laughter because people like how do you know that? They helped me apparently, my pronunciation pretty good. And then they helped me understand the saying, which I use as like, like, I would say, like, like, If Emma like, if I asked you some questions, you wouldn't answer them. I might say moi. You hotkey, me and China, UK. And I'm like, but that's how I would say it. And they were like, I think like, it means like, banging on a teapot. And, but it means the bat, like bothering somebody, like, why are you bothering me? Why are you banging on this teapot? And I was like, okay, so they told me I was using that. Well, I was pretty excited. And yeah, it's, uh, meaning chopping or banging on the tea pot, realizing it will make lots of noise and then break. I don't know. So why would you? Why are you hockey me in China? I don't know why it's like use like that. So then, we had these great exercises at meals, where they would bring myself and another person that was speaking there. They bring us the dish that everybody was about the they'd say, Hey, tell us how many carbs you think we're isn't this, which was really cool. Because it was it was Chavez. And a lot of the food was just very carb heavy. And I don't even know how you'd be able to like, tell like it was just it was crazy. So they bring this one thing, and I'm up on a riser. So I'm in front of like, 200 people. It was kind of weird. They had us up on a table, like I was like, we were at a wedding, me and the other guy, like felt like we were getting married. And they put the dish up in front. And I stood up. And I kind of made a show of it a little bit like made some faces and covered my mouth like oh my gosh, and stuff like that. And I'm looking at I don't know what I'm looking at. So I take a fork, and I spear this thing. And I hold it up. And there's laughter I'm like, what, what is this? What is this? And everybody's like, it's a kiss guts a kiss gun, like I'm hearing that from all over the room. And they're laughing because I don't know what it is and everything. I'm poking at it with my other finger while tying from the fork. And I said I don't understand. And this woman comes up you know, that kind of helps leave the room and she goes, what is it? You don't understand she grabs the microphone. She says he doesn't understand. I'm like, I don't understand if this is a Kiska. Then where does the saying eating my kiss goes out come from. And that led to like, oh my god, so much. Laughter people were having a great time. So what I learned was a Kiska, I think is like something like inside of like an animal like in its stomach or something or it's your kiss goes. And so if you're like, breaking someone's balls, like why are you eating? Why are you digging it my insides? Why are you eating my kiss goes out. And so I got to do all that. Why was that the thing and I have to tell you. Such a good time. Yeah, I got to be. Alright, here's my last thing about this. I got to be the shot. I got to be a shabbos goy. Do you know what that means? No. What is that? Okay. So going means non Jew. Okay. And Shabbos is you know, the time from sundown Friday, sundown Saturday, where Orthodox people don't use electricity. So they're not allowed to use any like electric. Now there this, this group had kind of like a, I don't know, a pass from the rabbi to use their insulin pumps and their Dexcom and stuff like that. But at the end of the the first night, I was getting on the elevator, which by the way, was a private elevator for me because no one else in the whole setting could use the elevator. Never. Oh my god, I was terrific. I never waited for an elevator for 24 hours, zip zip up, down. But I'm standing waiting for the elevator. There's a woman standing near me but she's waiting to go up the stairs. And she appears to be waiting for another person says this guy comes up and they start speaking to each other in Hebrew. And they clearly are talking about me. So I'm like, sort of sitting there going like what's going on? And then I and then she goes to him in English. He goes he doesn't know what that is. And I was like, what what do I not know? What is this? Like, where's this going? And then I heard him say like, kind of in broken English and kind of in Hebrew Chava school. And I went way, way, way way Wait, and they're like, Yeah, I'm like, I know what that is. I was like, I would totally do that. Like any Like, Oh, good, good, good. Like meet me in front of room. You know, he's like you're on the sixth floor, right? I was like I am he goes, you can meet me in front of my room. He gave me the number. So obviously, am I beat him to the room because I had the elevator and he had to run up six flights of stairs, but, and not insensible shoes either. And so and so I'm waiting at his door, because do you know why he wants me? Why to turn off his lights for him? Oh, right, because it's midnight. And so yeah, he stops me. He goes, let me make he says something about let me make sure my wife is decent or something like that. And then he goes in, she's in bed. And he's like, come in. So the room is like glowing because there's lights on, right. And she's in bed with a blanket pulled over her head, I'm assuming trying to sleep with this 100 watt bulb like glaring at her. And he kind of can't tell me. He's not allowed to tell me what he wants. So I just kind of walked in the room. And I'm like, reaching out for the Switch, like this one. And I got the little vibe, and I clicked it off. And the voice from the bed goes, Oh, thank you so much. And I was like, Oh, you're very welcome. And so I get the walk out again. But there's a light on in the bathroom. And I gesture to that one. And he gives me the like, no sign. I'm like, Oh, he's probably going to close the door. So we can still have the light overnight. If he needs it. was very, it was very interesting. I learned a lot. That's so interesting. Yeah. But here's my big takeaway, because they asked me on my last day, like, you know, what did you What did you? What did you take from this? What would you like us to take from this? I told them what I wanted them to take from it about timing and insulin and stuff like that. And I said, what I'm going to take from it is that when I got here, I mean, there's just no doubt, like your religion is much different than anything I've ever seen. They of course, have a very specific way of dressing and everything, which when you first get there, it feels like you're at another time almost. It's weird. But once I got to know them and speak with them, what I can tell you is that they were literally no different than anybody else I'd ever met my life. Wow. Yeah, it was very, it was just a great experience to have that because if somebody was going to be different based on how they look, this would have been the spot. But I got into small groups with people. They were lovely, funny, thoughtful. Not nothing. Nothing different than anybody else I've ever met my whole life. So no, it was it was really interesting. Yeah, see, and by you saying you want to stay on for a little longer. I got to tell the story. I was never going to tell on the podcast. So. Yeah, I hope to do more speaking. I haven't done a bunch since COVID. And it was nice. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, really cool to see to. It was really excellent. Again, to impact people like in real time. And to watch them have like, I know you guys are listening and having reactions, but I don't get to be like, I don't get to be on the other side of it. You know, because I'm pre recorded. But it was nice to see people come up to me with their CGM, and say like, Oh, I did the thing you talked about in the thing and look at how flat my line is, or Yeah, like the rabbi came up to me afterwards, and told me that his blood sugar was 72 after Shabbos dinner, and that he's like, it's never been that steady or low. And it's like, that's great. That's what you do. He goes, I did what you said. I was like, Oh, cool. So I was like, Oh, that's nice. Like, I don't get feedback like that often. So yeah,

Emma 1:18:32
no, that's great. And I think that's also why the Facebook group is so nice, too, because we get to, like, interact with each other and interact with you in some cases, too. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:18:41
No, I appreciate very much that because that is the only time. That's the only feedback I get usually. Yeah, yeah. Okay, emails are overwhelmingly, generally positive, although someone yelled at me the other day, and it was actually really upsetting Emma?

Emma 1:19:01
Like, why? Why would they do that? Like, just keep it to yourself when

Scott Benner 1:19:05
they said I was going to kill people with my reckless ideas about diabetes. I guess it's been on for nine years. I was like, I don't know if it's reckless as they've been about 27,000 doctors on here saying this is what they tell people. So like, alright, but it was, um, somebody was mad. You know, I don't know what it was about. They didn't give a lot of context in their letter. And I read it, and I put it in my brain as something somebody thought and then I deleted it. So I'm okay now. But you know what, like, what was I going to do? respond back and go hi, I don't know if you know how the world works. But at the beginning, I say nothing you here on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice. They said, stop pretending to be a doctor. Like I'm pretending to be a doctor. I call myself an idiot six times a week. I tell people don't listen to me. Don't make me come out and say what do I say? My wife doesn't listen to me. You shouldn't Neither, it's very clear that I'm not a trusted source. Anyway, it made me sad for a minute, but then I, you know, I let it go, you

Emma 1:20:13
know, and compared with the amount of people that you help to, like, the you shouldn't let just one person being angry, you know? No,

Scott Benner 1:20:22
I didn't, but it's hard not to, like I could if I could write you an email, Emma, that has nothing to do with your reality. And still, if you read it, you'd be like, Oh, God, that hurts. For sure, ya know, like, especially when you're trying to help. And you're seeing overwhelmingly how much it's helping people. And then the, my first thought was, oh, gosh, did they misunderstand? Like, did they hear something and misunderstand something? Or did they may be like, maybe this is just a low carb person who's like, you know, you tell people how to use insulin. You know, that's not good for them. Like, I don't know what they really meant by it. You know what I mean? But it's, you know, it wasn't fun, but I didn't hang on to it very long. Just, I looked at it. And I was like, alright, well, that's somebody's opinion. And then I considered responding. And I thought, I don't know. Like, where's that gonna go? So? Yeah, I just kind of got rid of it. But anyway, you're doing well, that makes me happy. I'm

Emma 1:21:18
in the fives now main thing, which is good. Get

Unknown Speaker 1:21:21
out of here. Seriously? Yeah, that's

Emma 1:21:23
excellent. I went, Yeah, my, like, six months after diagnosis, I was 5.1. Which was great. And then after that, like I've started, like, learning how to eat food that I actually want to eat, you know, like fun food. And so it's, it's went up to like, 5.3. And I think now it's at 5.5, which I'm okay with, because I'm eating what I want. It's still pretty good. So, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:21:50
it's amazing. I mean, not just amazing, but also a lot of Cuban food mixed in and you're doing. what's your what's the basis of Cuban eating? Like, is

Emma 1:22:00
it raw rice and beans, rice and beans? A lot of meat.

Scott Benner 1:22:04
Pork? That kind of stuff?

Emma 1:22:05
Yeah. Sounds good. Plantains, too. Has he?

Scott Benner 1:22:10
Your boyfriend? Is he born here? Was he born in Cuba?

Emma 1:22:14
He's born here. But his both his parents are

Scott Benner 1:22:17
from Cuba. But everyone's here now.

Emma 1:22:20
For pretty much yeah,

Scott Benner 1:22:21
get to go back or does it not work that way? His mom

Emma 1:22:25
has gone back few times. But his dad has it because, you know,

Scott Benner 1:22:32
anger harder? Yeah. That's interesting. Well, is your your boyfriend being just like, like, he's first generation. But is he like incredibly American? Or is he like, did He mean or does he have Is he a blend?

Emma 1:22:47
He's He's very American. Yeah. And, like, to the point even that, like in Cuban culture, even in Miami, because Miami is basically like Northern Cuba. It's it's, it's more like Latin American minute is America. And there's a lot of like a cheese Mo and like, just like kind of toxic masculinity. And he's not that way at all. Which is awesome.

Scott Benner 1:23:13
Yeah, I wouldn't imagine you be with him if he was like, a jerk. Right? Oh, my God. And I agree with you about the Facebook group. I want to say it's one of the things I don't I can't believe this is how my life has gone. But I'm most proud of a few things. And one of those is that Facebook group and how it helps people. Yeah,

Emma 1:23:35
yeah, for sure. And there are people in there that don't even listen to the podcast, which I think is kind of wild.

Scott Benner 1:23:40
I do too. And it's upsetting by the way, to me, I'm personally making this podcast, but it's, it's good. Because what I've learned to imagine is that they were never going to do it like some people have. Some people's like vibe is like you're sure like I'm gonna dive in, I'm gonna find things out like that kind of thing. And some people are just like, please just tell me the answer. I don't want to know more than this. And I'm happy for those people to still have direction. I mean, I'd love for them to listen to the podcast, there's no doubt if everyone in that Facebook group, if everyone in that Facebook group subscribed to this podcast today. I mean, there's so many people in there it would this would be one of the biggest podcasts in the world if that happened. And it just it's not because some people just that's not the way they get their information, I guess, to shame because then they they they're never going to hear about the sharpest boy, do you think I could make that the title of the episode?

Emma 1:24:38
About you? Sure.

Scott Benner 1:24:39
I mean, it would like it really gets away from you, which I don't appreciate it. But

Emma 1:24:43
then they'll listen to the whole thing because it happens after an hour or so they'll gonna listen be like, Why is the sharpest coordinate and remember, listen, go with

Scott Benner 1:24:50
me. You're in my head. Where are they will or they'll be like, I don't wanna hear about that. Like, I don't know, I like diabetes breakdown. I do think that's a good one because we broke down by PDS today while we were talking. Oh, true, and you had a number of breakdowns while you were breaking out you were learning about diabetes over the last year.

Emma 1:25:06
All the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:25:08
Let me ask you a couple of like brief questions about ozempic. And then I am going to, I'm going to reiterate to you that if you stay on it for a good long time, I absolutely want you to come back and talk about okay, okay, cool. So, you started at how long? Have you been doing it?

Emma 1:25:24
Just a week, not even a week I first injection was last Tuesday,

Scott Benner 1:25:28
snap, and it's helping you already? Yeah.

Emma 1:25:31
Well, okay. So wait, wait, here's the thing is that I'm also on my period, which also, you know, messes everything up. So I don't know how much is, is my menstrual cycle and how much is ozempic? But like, I've been using, like half as much insulin.

Scott Benner 1:25:47
So do you usually use less insulin during your period?

Emma 1:25:52
Like, for the first few days before my period, I'm like, super sensitive. And then like, when my period starts, I get super resistant.

Scott Benner 1:26:02
Do you ever sing the song? Oh, ozempic. No, no, I will know. Yeah. Awesome. What a great jingle. Like, whoever wrote that. It's like a genius. Okay, so have you do you have weight to lose?

Emma 1:26:20
Oh, yeah. I mean, I've I've gained a little bit of weight this semester, because I wasn't like walking to win from school. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:26:28
Did you lose weight the first week? I mean, during your period would probably be difficult. But

Emma 1:26:32
I haven't

Scott Benner 1:26:34
weighed myself. I don't know. You gotta weigh yourself. That's the whole up. Sorry. I'll do that. Let me down. I'm like, so yeah, start weighing yourself like weekly if you want to, I do it every day on the weego V. I have lost 15 pounds so far. And hold on. I keep my used. I keep my use pens here so I can keep track. So I have. Okay, so I've done four injections at point two, five milligrams so far. And three injections at point five, which I guess means I've been doing this for seven weeks. And tomorrow is my fourth injection of point five. And then the next week I go up to one. And I've lost like 15 pounds so far. Yeah, so and I haven't done. I haven't done much. I mean, I'm eating more salads and roughage in general vegetables. My wife started gardening. So we have a lot of fresh like salad like lettuce and stuff, different different kinds of lettuce. And I get you just can't eat as much. Are you finding that you can't eat as much or has it not hit you like that yet? All right.

Emma 1:27:50
No, my app. My appetite is like, kind of non existent to Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:27:54
it's sometimes like, like, I'm in trouble now. Because I'm a little woozy right now, because I haven't eaten yet today. So I got up. Yeah, I got up and I was like, Oh, I'm gonna eat now. And then I didn't have a chance. And then I was like, Oh, I gotta have I have to get something done for the podcast, like some back end stuff. That's boring. And, you know, if you always subscribe, I can hire somebody to do and but anyway, so I'm doing like, clerical stuff, right? Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, I should eat now that I'm like, I don't want to eat right before I like record. So I'll wait. And then we went a half an hour longer than I expected it and I'm not hungry. Like, yeah, my stomach isn't telling me when I'm hungry. My brain is not telling me I'm hungry. I only know I'm hungry because I'm getting drifty in my head. And that's the only way I can tell that I haven't eaten. So what I will tell you is eat on a schedule. Because you're not going to think to eat if it's working on you. Right? Yeah, just. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah,

Emma 1:28:54
it's crazy.

Scott Benner 1:28:56
Yeah. Did you get any, like, uncomfortableness in your stomach? Or, God, I'm not gonna lie about it. It's only been a week. I'm not going to ask you if your stool has changed, because that's just a weird way to talk to people. I'd almost almost just rather ask you if you're constipated or have diarrhea, but, but haven't had problem with any of that. Yeah,

Emma 1:29:16
no, myosin. It's been fine. My so I've been getting my period though. So like, I've had some like cramps in my abdomen. Like I don't know if it's like the medication or my period is the thing. Well,

Scott Benner 1:29:31
I can tell you that on Saturday when I woke up at the the event I was speaking at to learn that that a very common thing for them to eat on Saturday morning is cheesecake for breakfast, and I was like, these are my people for short cheese. And then I went over and they were kind of these ornate cheese cakes. They were very like, like they had chocolate on them and other stuff. It wasn't just like, cheesecake. You know what I mean? And So I'm like, I don't think I can eat this because of the weak Ovi, but I don't want to insult them and I sink. So I took a piece, and I took a spoonful of cheesecake and it sat like a rock in my stomach. That was like so upsetting. Like, I was like, Oh, I had like reflux from it and everything. I'm like, Alright, cheesecake. Can't do that, like mental note. But I had, like the over fullness feeling hit me really hard in the first three days of my first injection, but that's gone away since then, like I can eat through it if I need to. Like if I don't know what that even means. I guess if I wanted to overeat I could. I don't know how much I haven't pushed it. But yesterday I made a wrap, like two eggs. Two eggs, a few ounces of chicken. I put the cook them together with some mushrooms. I threw them in a wrap. I couldn't even finish them. I couldn't finish the wrap. Yeah, I was like, Oh, yeah. So you're having all those experiences already in just a week?

Emma 1:30:57
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Like I get full so fast. No appetite. Yeah, that's those are the biggest changes. I haven't. There's not much else. Like my doctor said I might there might be like nausea and like vomiting and like things like that. And I haven't.

Scott Benner 1:31:14
And so and your insulin needs went down already. So I can't wait to see how long because I think this is going to be why am I asking about this? I think this is going to be a very popular treatment for type two and type one diabetes. Like yeah, moving forward in the future, like I foresee a time where people are doing this with a lot of regularity. It just, it's crazy how well it works. Well, honestly, I'm a pound away from being the lowest weight I've been since 2019. I think. Yeah. And just for not like for like click click, and that's kind of the end of it. So anyway, you if you stay on it, please let me know. Okay, even if you stay on it for like six months, like reach back out and say, Hey, I'm still on this. And then we'll start making plans for you to come back. Okay. Okay. Emma, thank you so much. You were really great.

Emma 1:32:13
Thank you often.

Scott Benner 1:32:14
That's my pleasure. Hold on one second for me.

How about Emma, thank you so much, Emma for coming on the show and sharing your story with us. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox.

Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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