Scott Benner 11/1/23 Scott Benner 11/1/23

#1053 Some People Call Me Maurice

Justin has type 1 diabetes and is a Paramedic.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1053 of the Juicebox Podcast.

day I'll be speaking with a paramedic named Justin who has had type one diabetes for 30 years since he was 10 years old. Justin is very much into physical fitness his family and letting people know that diabetes doesn't have to limit them. Today we're going to talk about Justin, his diabetes growing up with it, his job, and so much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% at cosy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout, you can get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with your first order of ag one at drink, ag one.com/juice box. And if you're looking for glucagon, the one in fact that my daughter carries check out g voc glucagon.com/juice box. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, you must check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It's a private group with 43,000 members. There is a conversation happening right now that you would absolutely be interested in or be able to help with this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox. Head over now find out more about the Dexcom G seven or the GS six and you can get started with the CGM that my daughter wears Dexcom

Unknown Speaker 1:57
oh my god, can you believe it?

Scott Benner 2:06
Doe a D deer a female deer. The podcast is also sponsored by us med us med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies and you can to better service and better care is what you'll get from us med us med.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com.

Justin 2:37
My name is Justin. I live in the Pacific Northwest Washington State. Have two young girls Addison and Leila Addison is five Leila is three. Married My wife's name is Lindsay and currently we both are in healthcare. I work as a first responder at a local fire fire department. And then my wife is a physician's assistant. Been a type one diabetic since the age of 10 years old, so 31 years now. Wow. And that is why I am here chatting with you.

Scott Benner 3:13
Oh, that's excellent. Oh, wow. You have diabetes for 31 years. Correct. Okay, happenstance, completely the person I interviewed yesterday was from the middle of Washington State. How weird is that? It is actually kind of strange. Because first of all, not everybody says where they're from. And now it's two days in a row and they're like I'm from Washington. I'm like, Cool. Well, you were diagnosed a long time ago you were diagnosed in a time of did you make regular and mph or were using cloudy or animal insulin? What were you doing?

Justin 3:45
Yeah, I use combination. So I remember in the mornings taking two injections one with the short acting one with the long long acting the NPH and and then everything in between when I ate and then at nighttime again. long acting NPH and the short acting if I got I was the type of person who always had a glass of milk before bed I don't know why so I'd always take a little bit then so I felt like I was taking like 10 or 12 injections a day or as frequently as I was eating but yeah

Scott Benner 4:22
was the building we did technology was the milk warm Justin was to help you drifted a dream boy

Justin 4:27
no something might my father had milk with like every meal and I think that I just like I thought it was the normal thing like milk with breakfast milk with for a snack milk with lunch milk with dinner and then for some reason I got into this like milk before bed milk was like water in my family and I learned that from my dad and I think it's just like I thought it was cool when I was little and then it just

Scott Benner 4:51
but you were done. Were you recovering it with insulin or no?

Justin 4:54
Yeah, typically I was. So in that was all dependent on what my blood sugar was. Right. So I would say nine times out of 10. Unless I was going to bed, you know, mildly hyperglycaemic or something. Yeah, I would I would cover it with a little short acting.

Scott Benner 5:09
Okay. If you hit that, that line, so what is this? Like? 1990? Was 191. Right? So yeah, you're just on the other like meters were just becoming more like things people had in their homes in the late 80s. Like, right around there. So you had you had a glucose meter like that? I did. Okay. Was it accurate? Do you think? There's no way to know, I guess, right. Yeah, I

Justin 5:33
don't think I would have known any different. Yeah, you know, it, especially at the age of nine or 10. You know, for me, I was just told, here's what you have. And here's what you have to do. And, you know, I don't think that I would have known whether it was or wasn't. And you know, as you get older, you can tell whether something is accurate or not based off of maybe how you're feeling. And I've had that with the sensors. Now. It's like, especially the earlier sensors. I'm feeling a certain way. And my sensor says something else. I'm like, I don't feel like I'm already right now. Or I'm 250. Yeah. But but with the blood glucose, that I mean, that was your that was the only thing besides a urine test script, which I just didn't use that often.

Scott Benner 6:16
What was the first did you have the G four? Did you get the very first sensor?

Justin 6:20
No, I didn't. I started with the seven Medtronic.

Scott Benner 6:24
Oh, you start with Medtronic. Okay.

Justin 6:25
I did. Yeah. What do you use? Yeah, so I have the T slim for a pump. And then I use the G six and G six was the the first sensor i i really stuck with, because I had I had heart ache with the early generations. I just never found them to be accurate. And so I was I was kind of stubborn. And I just said, You know what, I'm just gonna poke my fingers 1015 times a day and just do it that way.

Scott Benner 6:56
My recollection, because Arden had the first Dexcom g4, and then she had seven plus. And then like she's had them all. But I remember back then. I mean, they were very new. You know, like, somebody had to tell me what they were. I mean, somebody just told me, when did you ever Dexcom I was like, I don't know what that is. And she told me I was like, Well, that sounds great. Then you use it. And to your point, like I couldn't tell like is this? Like, should I be looking at the number and what what I, what I eventually learned was with the very first CGM, it's not this way any longer. But I learned to just at least the arrows, the arrows that were meaningful, like, Alright, up down, falling fast, slow, that kind of stuff was really helpful early on, then obviously, it got better as time went on, but in the beginning, and that's I just use them for the arrows. It's supplemented with finger sticks constantly. Yeah, that's interesting. So you, if you had the Medtronic CGM, you had a Medtronic pump.

Justin 7:54
Correct. I switched over to tandem about a year and a half ago. I was with Medtronic for a very long time. And I was pretty loyal to them. My endocrinologist got to the point where she felt like Medtronic was a little bit behind, especially with their sensors. And so she recommended I switch. And I switched to tandem and you know, I've been very happy especially with the the weight and the size. I do think that they have been there a little ahead.

Scott Benner 8:22
Yeah, it's a good pump. It is. Yeah. Are you using control IQ? Are you using it, Matt? You are. Okay. So yep. So you were you doing automation with the Medtronic,

Justin 8:33
I was not because I didn't like the sensor. I didn't trust it. So I had a trust issue with Medtronic. So I was just running with the standard Basal patterns that we had set, you know, over time, so I wasn't using, I wasn't using the sensor, their hybrid technology with tandem. I have been, and I've been very trusting of it. I have had some issues. It's been infrequent, but they have happened. But I like the control IQ, it's really hands off, which is super nice.

Scott Benner 9:07
Especially now that I appreciate it more now that hardens at college. Like I appreciate it before, you know be but we were still like, I don't know, connected more frequently around things. So you know, but now there have been opportunities where there's just nothing like I can't contact her and she's in a class and she's not going to do anything, you know, and she's just living. And it's a it's just very comforting to see, like, I don't know, you miss on a meal or eat something it hits harder than you expect. And there's an upward rise and you don't do anything and it goes it stops eventually like it's gone. You know? Just fantastic. Really going back to when you were first diagnosed. I find usually that people in that timeframe like pretty quickly. Your parents aren't involved anymore, right? You just doing these injections and going on your way. Is that what happened for you?

Justin 10:02
Yeah, I do feel like that I felt like you know it at the age of nine and 10, though you're young, you can, you're pretty quick to figure it out. But I'll say this to back then, you know, 30 years ago, I remember them in the hospital, they just told me that you just can't have candy anymore.

Scott Benner 10:20
That was it. I was like,

Justin 10:22
I remember asking, like, I can't even have a Snickers bar. Like that's pretty, pretty huge for nine or 10 year old, right. And I just was like, heartbroken. But it wasn't the carbs were the the issue. It was just the simple sugars where the candy were. So I was told to stay away from those. And I thought, well, that's, it's heartbreaking, but it's pretty easy. And I do remember my father, because I didn't want to do the injections. He helped me with those for, like, the first summer I had it. But by the time you know, I'm going into fifth grade. He was fifth grade, I have to do those things at school by myself in you know, I, I was, as far as I know, the only one and they made me go to the office, I had to go to the office to check my blood sugar. I had to go to the office to do an injection. And the nurses and everybody were hands off. They're like, Oh, I don't know what this is. And so that was kind of weird for me. But I had to learn pretty quickly. Yeah. And you know, I'm not I wasn't nearly as efficient at managing it back then, as I am now. And that's from technology and education standpoint. But I had to learn quick, I was

Scott Benner 11:29
picturing myself in fifth grade. I was like, I didn't like my teacher. I was in trouble all the time. Like, you know, I didn't do particularly well on my classes. And I'm like, what if you gave me diabetes on top of that, like, I don't even know what I would do. You know? How did you measure outcomes? It was it just I say this a lot. But you weren't busy. And you were standing? Good day?

Justin 11:53
Yeah. Like outcomes as in when I when I took insulin, your hell? Which way? Am I trending?

Scott Benner 12:00
Yeah. Because think about think about how you think about your day to day health now, with all this data, right? And think of it back then, like, what was the golden?

Justin 12:07
I remember, and even today, I'm fairly highly sensitive to how I would feel. And so it's so weird to say, but yeah, I mean, you really learn how to listen to your body, which is, I think, good in a way right and really connected. But but I'll say this, I started really early, and I never had an issue. And I was fortunate enough to have parents who had good insurance. So I had a lot of test strips. So I have always been Intel, the GS six, I've always been a frequent tester of my glucose. So the feelings were huge, kind of understanding your body and listening to your body. But also I was a person who was testing at least 10 times a day. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:55
So anytime you thought you notice something you would check. And that's just you, right? That wasn't instilled in you by anybody, I imagine. No,

Justin 13:03
I think it's just me. I think I think it is just me, because I'll say that, you know, as far as I remember, they wanted you to test it when I say they might my physicians, and they were recommending you test often, but they weren't telling you to do it 10 times a day. So it was just me, almost, it was probably a little bit of anxiety and a little bit of, I'm kind of a perfectionist, so So that's in me too. Like, I'm feeling a little funny, or I ate this food that I know will typically send me to the moon. So I'm going to check it and check in check it

Scott Benner 13:41
out. Sounds like common sense to me. I'm just fascinated that you figured out when you were a kid, you know, like it's just, I mean, we were doing that before CGM. Like I, I know, the doctor looked at me sideways. But we when we asked for test trips, I was like, I need at least like 12 or 13 of them a day. And she's like, for what? And I was like, Well, I'm testing. Like, at like, before meals, she was right. I said, and then like an hour after the meal, and she goes, why you're gonna be high then I was like, I think there's a way not to be high after that. I'm trying to figure it out. And I need to see all this information to figure it out. So she would she would look at Arden's logs in the beginning, and say like, I don't know how to make sense of any of this. She's like you're testing when people don't test. And I was just like, Well, yeah, because I want to know what's happening here. Like, I don't care if we started at and ended at I want to know what happened in between, you know, and well couldn't they couldn't track with that for a long time. But now they do obviously,

Justin 14:39
in reality, is there is there any such thing in my mind as too much when it comes to your data and understanding what your blood sugar is doing? Because for folks who don't have diabetes, I mean it's all time right? And so with a sensor you know, I know that the the G six and something like the libre, it It takes a peek at your blood sugar every, you know if three minutes, five minutes or even even sooner with the libre, I believe but I mean, in my mind, like, they should be applauding you Yeah, for wanting to know that right? It's

Scott Benner 15:14
always backwards no matter what you say to a doctor, they're always behind the times and you're always going like, trust me, this is a good idea. So, I mean, we were lucky enough to get them the test strips and you know, our insurance covered it which was terrific. But even now like thinking like people who don't have problems regulating their blood sugar's I don't care type one type two, you know, it's never anything you're gonna think about just you're gonna live your whole life and it's just gonna, it's gonna your, your pancreas is gonna work like your toe, like it just like does the thing it's supposed to do. But for people where it's not knowing sooner is just the key. You know, even if it's pre diabetes, for type two, like, like you want to see it, because there's something you can do. And when you're type one, it's every minute like I don't, I don't understand the idea of like, my blood sugar is gonna go up to 300 I'm just gonna ignore it. I don't feel well. I won't say anything. You don't I mean, I'm just gonna live through this and see how it goes. And it's interesting that you came to it that way where your parents particularly healthy people, exercising they eat well, everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arlen does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the show. Now let's talk about the Dexcom g7. The Dexcom g7 is a small and wearable continuous glucose monitoring system. It sends real time glucose readings to your Dexcom g7 app or the Dexcom receiver. Use my link dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. To learn more and get started today, you will be able to effortlessly see your glucose levels and where they're headed. This way you'll be able to make better decisions about food, insulin and activity. Once you're able to see the impact that those variables have on blood sugar, you'll begin to make more purposeful decisions and have better outcomes. My daughter has been wearing a Dexcom My daughter has been wearing a Dexcom product for so many years. I don't even remember when she started. But today she wears the Dexcom G seven and it is small and easy. And oh my goodness, are you going to love it dexcom.com forward slash juice box you can head there now and click on the button that will get you your free benefits check or just hit that other button that says Get Started. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast. dexcom.com/juice box.

Justin 19:10
My mother? Yes, my father, not so much. My father was a very active person with his job. He had a labor job in so he ran heavy equipment and did a lot of dirt work. And so he was very active that way. But he was also a smoker. And like the only good meal he would eat would be because my mother cooked it for him. Yeah. But my mother has always been cheap. You know, my mom writes bike every day. She goes on a walk every day. She's been very attuned to her health my father would not not so much. So I think I think some of it my mom's mom is very much she's still doing yoga at 85 years old now. Wow. She's she's a really interesting lady

Scott Benner 19:58
your body stuff Oh, and your is it match your mom's? Are you kind of built? Do you don't I mean by

Justin 20:05
actually, yeah, yeah. So my, I think I'm more like my father so my father was a six, four. I'm six, two, he was very lean. I'm very lean as well. My mother, though she's, I don't know both my parents are fairly tall. My mom was five, seven. So for a woman that's that's fairly tall. And she she's muscular though she's kind of built like her her father. My mom's a little more, I guess mezzo morphic. You know, she she holds a lot of muscle. My dad was a little more Ecto morphic skinny. Yeah. Kind of like an in between.

Scott Benner 20:40
Right. Well, it's interesting, though, because you have your dad's build, but your mom's mindset. Yeah, yeah, it's good mix. Yeah, there have been times when I've looked at my kids and thought, Wow, this just went the wrong way. If instead on this topic, if it wasn't this from me, and that from Kelly, if it got flip flop, they'd be a disaster. And you know, like, you just, you just get lucky, you know? So, okay, so you go do I mean, I'm gonna, I don't even ask you, but I don't. I'm not imagining diabetes was much trouble for you through high school.

Justin 21:12
No, you know, but I was a silly high school student, like a lot of people. And so I, I paid attention. I did, but I also was, my friends were very important. So going to Red Robin, and experimenting and doing those things. You know, I do remember a time in my life where I had always kept track, and I always paid attention. But I wasn't as strict with it with the diet and all that as I am now. So I definitely had a time where I was very much just being, I mean, I hate to say it as an unhealthy teenager. But But I was, you know, I like I wanted to go out and eat with the friends and I want to go out and do those things. And it wasn't extremely frequent, but it was much more loose

Scott Benner 22:05
for sure to play sports in school.

Justin 22:08
Yep, I did. So I did. I played football, I ran track. And even those, I didn't take extremely seriously, but I did participate in your

Scott Benner 22:19
little. Hey, I just think to ask, I'm gonna guess no, because of the year. But did you pick up the smoking from your dad? Do you ever try it? No, no, no.

Justin 22:30
Didn't and I'm very fortunate my actually my father, my father's seven years ago passed away from lung cancer. Oh, I'm sorry. And it was something when I was younger, I stayed up late at night thinking about like, Man, my dad's gonna get lung cancer one day, what's gonna happen? What happened? You know, it kind of, there was a lot of fear, like what happens when you die? This is my father. Um, so I think the fear of I don't know why i i was quick to understand that, hey, this is bad for you. This is gonna be bad for him. I had no interest. And I had, I had a lot of pressure in high school from like, friends like, Hey, man, just try one. But just try one. And I remember at one time, I took a little puff off of one freaking disgusting, but never have never was I interested. And I have a long, long line of alcoholism in my family as well. And I'm not gonna lie there was there was time in my life where I had fun with friends. But I've never had any desire, or any addiction to feel as if I need to keep doing that. So I'm very, very fortunate that I didn't pick up on either of those things. Yeah,

Scott Benner 23:32
you avoided a number of things. I'm pretty sure I've never had coffee because I commingle Coffee and Cigarettes together. By the smell of my father's cigarettes along with coffee. The whole thing is just like it's nauseating to me. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So I've literally never had a cup of coffee. I'm thinking of doing it on the podcast. I was gonna say, well,

Justin 23:53
coffee is one thing. I didn't start drinking it until, like mid 20s. I started doing a little construction. I had a buddy who drank coffee as well to give me one of those. And then as I got into the fire service, it's very much a morning tailboard social thing. And so now I only drink a cup. Maybe two a day. But now, coffee. Coffee is my thing. It's part

Scott Benner 24:17
of your thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely going to try it at some point. It's just I don't think it's gonna blow you away. I think I'll be like, no. All right. Less than exciting. Yeah. Alright, so you get through high school. Did you go to college?

Justin 24:30
Yeah. So I went to a local community college and got an associate's degree from Tacoma Community College. Nobody in my family went to college. Nobody was steering me to college. I went to a small high school, so it was more built for tradesmen. So I kind of followed the path. I didn't know what the heck I wanted to do. But I did get an Associate's and I ended up going down to Texas. And I went to University of Texas down there where I got my paramedic certificate, and then I came back here to Washington State and I finished my bachelor's degree through Central Washington University.

Scott Benner 25:05
I can picture myself in high school standing in the parking lot getting getting ready to get into my car after school on a Friday afternoon, when a friend of mine says, hey, I'll see you tomorrow. And I thought, why would I see you tomorrow? I'm like, I'm like, I go to work. Oil. What are you talking about? And he goes SATs. And I'm like, what? And he goes, Yeah, SATs and I, and I swear to you, I said, What's that? I was, was 1988. And I was like, I'm like, I don't know what that is. And he's like, it's a test you take, too. And he's explained to me, and I go, I'm not doing that. And he's like, What do you mean, he's like, we're all doing and I was like, I'm not. And I went through, I went to my job at a sheetmetal shop the next day and made $40. You know, and, and it's just the same thing. You said it the way you said it made me think about it. No one ever mentioned college to me when I was growing up. They never once said, like, you know, after high school, you can, or nothing, it was stay alive. And you can get a job and your uncle and get a job and your uncle sheetmetal shop and this is over. You know what I mean? And so, anyway, it's just the way you said it really made it ring for me. Okay, yeah. How about when did you meet? Maybe that's the wrong question. Let me ask you a little bit about dating with diabetes. Because what if it wasn't your wife? So? Is that a thing that you share with women? Or is it something you kind of keep private? And show him a little bit of it? How do you handle that?

Justin 26:32
Yes. So early on, I felt embarrassed, I felt it was like, I mean, there just wasn't many people that had it, especially up into high school. So I never wanted anybody to know, it's like my friends did, of course, my close friends. But when it came to dating, I kind of felt like if I told them, they would view it as like, blue or a weakness, I don't know why. So I was pretty, I was pretty quiet about it. With as time went on, and as I got into, you know, college, and in really, it was much more prevalent, like to see someone walking around with a pump, or a sensor on or whatever it may be. And so then all of a sudden, I felt like I could loosen up a little bit because it was much more out there. But for a very long time. I didn't like people to know, because I didn't want to be viewed as like, weak or different. Or something like that, especially, especially from like a female standpoint. I didn't want them to think like, oh, well, I wouldn't want to have a long term relationship with him and get married have kids because he has this thing, right. I don't want that to be passed on or deal with that. So yeah, I didn't disclose.

Scott Benner 27:49
It's in your mind, though to like it. Yeah, I think it's seems reasonable to me that that would be something you would consider. Did you run into people who were like, yeah, no, thank you, or

Justin 28:00
no, and that, you know, it's weird, and it never really clicked, but I didn't be you know, I had a few very serious girlfriends that I dated for a long time. So So I wasn't a very frequent dater to have a lot of repetitions through it to where I was ever denied because of it. Maybe I was denied because of it. But it wasn't disclosed to me that that was why or why something didn't work out. But I never was. It didn't ever seem to be an issue. I think this was all just personal.

Scott Benner 28:27
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. So you're Are you a paramedic now? Correct? Yeah. And I've been through this before, but EMT and paramedic aren't the same thing. Just give it to me. Yeah. briefly what the difference is,

Justin 28:41
it's just a different tier of training. So an EMT basic, is several months worth of basic life support emergency training, whereas is paramedicine. It's a year and a half more of schooling. And so we can administer certain it's a little more invasive, you can you can do more skills and administer certain drugs based on what your protocol is. So it's more schooling, and it's a little bit further training. Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:07
Does the diabetes get in the way of it at all?

Justin 29:10
It hasn't? No, I actually think that there's been some benefit because when I you know, all the patients we see need to start IVs on I was very comfortable with handling syringes and needles and drying up medications and all of those things. So there was a benefit. There were it was a downside, was getting into the fire service. I had one fire job that I had applied for in particular and I had made it through to the interview stage and was actually denied because of the diabetes they were they were concerned that I wouldn't be able to handle the workload or hours of the fire service. And so when I first got this job that I currently have, I've been at for about a decade. I was really really quiet about how lenient, I wasn't quiet to the employer, I did have to disclose it. And I did have to do some extra testing to qualify. But for we respond to a lot of diabetics in the fire service, a lot of people with hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia, maybe DKA, I didn't want to be lumped into that group. So when I was first hired at the fire department, my theory was, I will prove myself, and then over time will disclose that I'm diabetic. And I don't know if that was the right way to do it. But I just was worried that people were going to look at me as a liability. Because we go see so many diabetics, I was like, I just don't want people to think that that's going to be me. Yeah. And so I didn't disclose it. And I did find that that was a weakness, because I was I was hiding it. So I found myself in my room, you know, messing with my pomp or trying to be secretive about that. Um, so that was

Scott Benner 30:54
yes, I see both sides of it, though. Because your concern mimics what happens when people go to the doctor, and, or when, you know, you hear of a person, you know, diagnosed or kids diagnosed, and they're, they're in health care. Everyone they picture with diabetes is in their worst moment. Yeah, you know, and I've made the point before that it's not unlike a friends I have, who are police officers who just they come to expect bad interactions with people, because their whole day at work is poor interactions. Right? So it's so true. Plus, it worked for you in dating. So it wasn't a completely bad plan. You know, you're, you're like, I'll get in here. I'll make them like me. If they like me, I'll let them know. So yeah, and, you know,

Justin 31:34
that's I questioned myself a lot about whether that was the right way to go about it, you know, especially if I did have an incident, people would be like, What the hell's going on? Yeah, you know, but But thankfully, you know, especially at work, I, I'm very strict on myself, like, I will definitely stay away from high carb meals and whatnot, because I never know when the when the bells is gonna go off. And we might be gone for an hour, two hours or three hours in and you know, we I always carry something with me. I'm smarter than that. But I just I did have moments where I'd be like, I was wondering if I was making the right decision, not disclosing it. And there was a couple people who knew it wasn't completely secretive. You know, but of the 100. Some people I work with, there was a fraction that didn't, there was a large fraction that didn't know. And I remember over time, when I got more comfortable. And I'd pull my pump out of my pocket or something. They're like, I didn't, I didn't know you were diabetic. And like, oh, yeah, that'd be for 30 years. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:30
And then it's just okay. Right? Because they know you already and it doesn't matter. Listen, I had, I had a kid on here recently, he got turned down by for a job like, obviously, because of his diabetes. And the law protects him, he could have not said anything, and then disclose them afterwards, after they hired him. And then they would have been more forced to pay attention to the to the, to the law, obviously. But this is not just about that. It's about camaraderie you have at work and people's ability to trust you. And and you know, like, especially in in a vigorous setting, and it is a vigorous setting, like what you do, yeah. Yeah. How long have your shifts 24 hours you do? How many of those do you do a week.

Justin 33:12
So our schedule, now you do 24 on, you get 48 off, and then 24 on and 96 hours off. It's a pretty cool schedule. We're there. I'd say an average of eight days a month or so we have times where we work 48 hour shifts, and we do trades and we pick up overtime, but you also get vacation, all that nice stuff. So it is 24 hours at a time. So it's like a second home for sure.

Scott Benner 33:36
Yeah, that's interesting. I know that, like people I'm close with, when they first got into police work. It was it rotated three to 1111 to seven, seven to three. And then you'd have two days off. They just started over. It was like seven to three, two days off. 11 to seven, two days. And it's hard on people. Like oh, man, I think people figure it out. That's just not a reasonable way to cover shifts like that. So 24 is not bad because you can sleep if you guys aren't jumping. You can, right?

Justin 34:10
Yep, yep, exactly. And I'll say that it's, you know, you never know what your day is going to be like, you never know what it's going to bring. You never know what calls you are you aren't going to go to and that's kind of the fun. One of the most difficult parts of the job, I would say is is those late night hours when you know, I've had plenty of shifts where we were able to lay down and sleep the majority of the night and it's great you know, you're getting paid the sleep right? That's fantastic. But you're always kind of half loaded. I told my wife I get home and I'm like, you know we slept for six hours last night and I feel like trash Yeah, I think you'd you just don't really get the chance to get into that deep sleep. You know, because you're always kind of you know, you're at work you're kind of prepared to potentially get up and most nights we do get up so

Scott Benner 34:59
it Listen, I only from the time I was 16 till I was almost 20, I volunteered at a local fire department. So I cool. Yeah, so I did that for four years. And obviously you're not sleeping at the firehouse. So they had these old like God to think of how old they must look now to people, but these boxes that would just picked up radio waves, and then just set off a searing alarm in your house. And you can be dead. Like, no lie, you can be dead asleep at 3am. And at 3:10am standing outside of the house, it's it's fascinating. Like, I think back now, like I woke up this morning, it took me 20 minutes to like, know which way I was going, you know, and, and, but there's something about that adrenaline hits you, and you're like, like, Seriously, I've had moments in my life where I'm like, wrapping a fire hydrant so that we can pull hose. And I think to myself, I've only been awake for six minutes. It's, it's, it's freaking weird. And so it's such an interesting thing. Yeah, I take your point, like, it's probably hard to get into a deep sleep, because odds are, something's gonna happen. And you're gonna have to roll somewhere, right? So, yeah, 100%. And

Justin 36:11
I think, as I've gotten more, as I've gotten older, and as I've been, I've been in the job longer, it definitely seems to affect my sleep more, you know, and then I also get concerned, and I can tell the difference, even in my blood sugar. If I have a rough night, and I don't sleep much, I think there's enough stress hormone in my body to where that next morning and that next day, I feel pretty insulin resistant. Yeah. And so I've questioned the longevity of the position, simply just not even just being a diabetic. But for a lot of people. You know, you see some unfortunate things that can stick with us. So there's a mental portion to it. And then the sleep though, is the big thing. I really think that sleep is important for us. And it's one thing and I know we're not the only job that doesn't get great sleep. There's plenty of them. But it is concerning me to think about doing that for 25 some years. How I'll feel after that, that chunk of time on my life.

Scott Benner 37:10
Yeah, yeah, it's um, I was just thinking like the way you said stress hormone just now is like, when we talk about, like growth hormones, we talk about, you know, we talk about, oh, my thyroid is out of whack. So my, those hormones are off, and nobody ever says, stress, like, like that. And it uh, it's definitely worth as a matter of fact, like, you made me write a note down. I'm gonna say, All right, that's just very worth talking about because it's again, something no one, we talked about it more in the, you know, in the moment, like management, like, oh, wow, are you stressed out today? Are you blah, blah, blah. But I don't think people know when they're stressed out. You know what I mean? Like, it's Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you're not really aware of it. Your stress is different. Because anyway, I've seen a dead body. And I know what that it's not fun.

Justin 37:54
Yeah, there's yeah, there's those those questions, you know, how many of those slides do I want to place in the, in the slideshow there? You know, I don't know. And as you get older, you know, I have little girls now at home. And I've I've had some really unfortunate pediatric calls and they've stuck with me and they're a little scarring and and then like I said, I there's these jobs have to be done. And I'm, I'm very fortunate to have the job and be a part of it. But there are times where I question how much of that I want to do and how much of that I want to see. And they've really affected me differently. As I've gotten older, and as I have children, and yeah, I don't feel old, but I do definitely. You know, when you're 20 years old, you don't die. Right. You're invincible, right? Well, you you know now, I'm 41. And I'm diabetic, and you hear a lot of bad things that come along with diabetes, and I start to question my mortality more and then you see sick people at work. And like you said about the police officer. You start seeing all these sick people, then you start feeling like, gosh, dang, is everybody sick? I could be me.

Scott Benner 38:59
Yeah, I had that thought sometimes making this podcast where I I'm like, God, everyone doesn't have an autoimmune disease. Right? Like, like that. But I start feeling that way or, but to your point of feeling indestructible. me right now thinks back on. I can think of picturing a fire where I'm on the roof of a three storey house with a soft in the middle of the night. It just by doing? Like, that's insane. You know, it's just not a thing that it's just not a thing that you do. And you do wonder, like, how how many times can I do this? I can picture an auto accident. Where, you know, we were setting up to take the door off this car. And I just went to look in the car so I could understand what it was we were doing. And I went back to the to the lieutenant I was like, there's no one in the car. What do we pull the door off the car for? And he goes she's under the dash. Oh no. And I was like, Wait What? And there's an old, an older, frail woman that wasn't wearing a seatbelt. And the literally she ended up under the dash and that in the passenger side. I mean, I'm never gonna forget that. Yeah, I take your point. So, um,

Justin 40:14
I say I say a lot of the things that that we see, you know, and there's there's so many people in the fire service in the police service that you know, that see these things, but a lot of it you're only supposed to see on movies. You're not I mean, no, and you get the chance to see that real life real person, and everybody handles it differently. You know, but it is. Yeah, it's interesting. And like you said, those are things that you will never forget, right. And I'm sure you have the opportunity to truly help some people, right. And that's rewarding, it really is. But it also comes a little heavy, too, when when you see those folks that, you know, maybe made one bad decision, or someone else made a bad decision that this other individual may suffer for that. That's, that's huge. And that weighs on you a little bit close friend

Scott Benner 41:03
of mine, I think I've mentioned this once on here before but told me the first time he had his gun out. And he was, you know, he's a police officer. He's at this house where there was a person in the house that made their way into the basement of homeowners like they just ran downstairs. And my friend starts to descend the steps and realizes that his legs are going to be visible in the basement long before his torso, and his eyes and his gun are clear. And he said I actually consciously thought, Do I really want to be a police officer? Oh, gosh, no kidding. Yeah. And and then he said, he's like, it's just the most like, charged up he's ever felt in his entire life. Gosh, yeah. And then you get down there. And the guy went out the window. And he's like, he's like, I was just like, like, frozen for a second like this. Just a crazy thing.

Justin 41:53
I really respect the the people in the police force because I tell you what, you know, I don't know what it would be like, especially if you were initially responding alone. In every every incident they go to the individual they're responding to probably doesn't want them there. They don't want to they don't you know, so it's, I don't know, I that would be a scary job. I really respect that position. I work closely with a lot of police officers because they secure a lot of scenes for us, you know, so it's a tough job.

Scott Benner 42:25
And it's also it's not like on television, like six cars don't show up with 12 people. It's like my buddies in the house going, okay. Like, you know, I guess this is me, if it was me, I didn't turn to the lady and said, Hey, bad luck. This guy in your basement now we ought to get the hell out of here, you know, believes in Yeah, I'm sure I'll get bored. Yeah, no, it's it's really interesting. So your wife is a physician's assistant. Correct? Okay. Does she have involvement with your diabetes? Now as an adult, she listens

Justin 42:57
to me be upset every so often when you know, I, I eat something and I take my insulin and for some reason, my blood sugar decides to take off on me. Or the other day, I was at work, and I had the catheter on my site, it came out. So I had for dinner, I had some chicken thighs, and I think I put on my fire gear. I don't know if it just grabbed it, right? I'm not really sure. But I ate a salad and chicken, not many carbs, my blood sugar starts taking off. And I'm taking insulin, and it's still going up. I'm taking insulin, and it's still going and I'm like, Alright, this is not fun. Well, I just happened to check my leg. And for some reason the catheter had come out, which is really rare, weird. So she listens to those things, you know, but I'll say she's very supportive when it comes to like, the diet that we eat, you know, we tried to eat pretty carb moderate, and we were very active people. She is a partner in all of that. But fortunately, you know, I don't, I don't my management. It's so second nature to me these days, you know, having it for 30 years. There's not a lot that, that that goes her way. I will say when we first met over a decade ago before I got a sensor, and we were we were having fun, you know, like we would go out and eat, eat cheat meals and all that she she witnessed a couple of a couple episodes where I was extremely hypoglycemic and a little confused, and that scared her a little bit. So she's had to witness those things and help me a little bit at times. Yeah, but most of my management now that's just it's me.

Scott Benner 44:40
So that brings up a good point. I'm assuming Yes, but do you do it with your children too? Like, do they know how to help you with glucagon?

Justin 44:47
No, so it's funny because you know, they're three and five and I think my oldest Addison she she would understand it a little bit if I if I sat her down and in you actually bring up a great point because it's something I should probably start talking talking to her about as she gets older and I haven't they understand that oh you're you're checking your blood sugar or Oh, you're you're pumped they get it, which is really cool. But I if daddy went down, I don't I don't think they would know what to do if you know mom wasn't here in my my, my wife works 12 hour shifts, so she's gone for 14 hours. So when I'm here with the kids, it is just us for a very long time. And I'm going to take a note too, because I don't want

Scott Benner 45:31
to see anything bad happen to you. But I just had this like interesting image of like a three to five year old standing over you the spent like Jeeva Capo bed you wake back up and like we got it that don't worry about it. I mean, it's something you're gonna say to him eventually. Right? And it's Oh, absolutely. You're making me think of this video I just saw online where there's a fire in on a kitchen fire. I don't know what I don't people must have cameras all over their house at this point. I don't understand exactly. But you know, something's on fire in the kitchen, the guy that put the thing on, he's gone for a little bit. This very little kid like walks in the room like little and just assesses the situation. And turns around is like, whoa, everybody. The kitchens on fire. You know, like really like, like, sounds the alarm for everyone. I'm assuming nobody ever told him to do that. And you know, I funny? Yeah. I mean, I get your three. Your three year old is not going to help you. Five or six man. I don't know. Like he's there. Yeah. Which one do you have?

Justin 46:27
For the glucagon? Yeah. Which

Scott Benner 46:29
one do you use?

Justin 46:30
It's just the typical Well, that would be the the hard thing to you have the red box open? Yes. I

Scott Benner 46:35
have the red box. It's been discontinued. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if it's actually happened yet, but it's happening. So your options are and full disclosure there. There are an advertiser, the G voc hypo pen, which is where all about it's super simple. I bet your kids could do that. And then there's the knees. Sam writing it down right now. Yeah, but and there's a nasal spray too, but I don't know. interested? Yeah, I'd be more. I'm looking around for it. I have a I don't know where it's at. It looks like an epi pen. And you pop the cap off. Press it against the skin. You get one click the second click means it's done. That's it. I have an episode that explains how to use it. But yeah, I don't know. Anyway, just isn't it funny? Like this is your job. And I almost think you and I are looking at each other. I don't do every episode looking at people. But I was like, Hey, how about glucagon? And I saw your eyes for all like, hell. Yeah, but no, anyway,

Justin 47:32
firefighters are the worst that were

Scott Benner 47:36
I every time a thin pretzel like like a hard pretzel from a bag, this is gonna seem like a left turn. Every time I have one of those I think about my dad, because they would, they would sit on the bar at the firehouse. My dad was a fireman. And oh, cool. They guys would get together. They drink beer on the weekend. So it always be this basket of pretzels there. And like they didn't eat those things sort of pretzels. Like I, I take a bite of one of those. And I can see my dad like leaning on the bar. And like all that stuff. It's pretty interesting. I went back there recently for an event. And the whole place had been completely just renovated. And I was looking around I was like, where's Where's where's my childhood memory? What you guys deal with it? And yeah, they're like, oh, that's over there now. And I was like, okay. But anyway, we spent a lot of time doing that. Also, people don't realize you're in a rig. And the sirens are going to you know what you're heading to? Does that hit your blood sugar? You get adrenaline from that?

Justin 48:38
Yeah, it can. It kind of it goes to its to that same as a rough night. It's the stress or I had. I had an interview the other day for lieutenant's position. And I was so nervous that I think that stress hormone was present, I became a little insulin resistant. And I'm like, I watched my blood sugar trend up and up and up. And so calls that have been intense or made me a bit nervous. It has affected my blood sugar. It's fairly rare. Now, you know, it does take a lot to get me spun up or excited. But we go to like a pediatric call or we I was on a train derailment here. Wow. That that one spun me up a little bit too. I will post a bio by an hour, two hours and all that it will start to just naturally trend up in the wrong direction. So yeah, it most certainly does.

Scott Benner 49:37
Do you have any issues? I'm assuming your algorithm kicks in, but then when the adrenaline goes away, you need to eat ever for that afterwards,

Justin 49:44
you know, you know, I haven't I haven't had any issues. The only time I've crashed after an episode like that a stressful incident has been because I've been overly aggressive self bolusing because I'm sure Trying to get it down because I'm hungry or whatever it may be. And so then all of a sudden, you know, you have your algorithm that's kicked in, it's not working fast enough for you. So then you self Bolus, and then all of a sudden you take off the wrong direction. And you start trending down pretty rapidly. I've done that several times, just out of frustration of like, Gosh, darn it I want to eat or whatever it is, or I've been high for two hours or three hours, like just come down. So your pump wants to work a little more slowly and safely than that. Me getting a little overly aggressive. Yeah,

Scott Benner 50:33
trying to get through it. Yeah, yeah, um, I take your point, though, about eventually, it just becomes like I can, I can put myself back in a cab of a truck, and you're hearing like things coming over the radio. And when you're younger, it's like, ah, but as you do it longer, you just start prioritizing in your head, like when we get there, I'm going to do this, and then this, and then I'm gonna, like it just sort of turns into, it's interesting, because something that would freak most people out eventually, you see is like, just kind of black and white. Exactly. Yeah. So we're 50 minutes into this. And I think we're covering what you did. But I want to be sure, like, why did you want to come on the podcast

Justin 51:09
I've wanted. So this was out of recommendation from people that I surround myself with friends, they're like, You need to start speaking about your experience with diabetes, and you need to, you know, and not to not to not to sound like overly cocky or confident or toot my own horn. But I feel like for 30 years, I've been pretty successful. And on the other side of that, I think a lot of us now know someone who has passed away from diabetes complications, or who's had it, or who's considered a fragile diabetic or whatever else. And so, I've told myself, I wanted to start volunteering my time, and speaking to individuals like yourself, about my experience, and what I do, and hopefully people who who want to listen, maybe we'll learn something, or even with kids, or people who feel like Man, this sucks having diabetes, and like, I feel like I may be limited or I can't do these certain things. Well, I mean, I just want people to know that that is not the truth at all, especially with all the new technologies that we have. So for me, I just wanted to you know, what you taught me, like, hey, you need to teach your daughters you need to get you need to update your glucagon. So it's kind of those things like I'm hoping to catch something, but I'm also hoping to contribute. And that's my biggest thing is like, an individual I work with his son got diabetes at the age of seven. And he saw me at the fire service. And this was when very little people knew I had it. He came up to me, he goes, Hey, I hear you have a secret. And I'm like, what, what secret you're talking about here? And he goes, Well, I know you're diabetic. And he said, Hey, I have a son who's diabetic. And he said, I want you to know that it's really cool to see you out here. Acting just as acting, participating in succeeding just like everybody else, because he's like, that's what I want for my son. And so for me, it made me feel like okay, I've done a pretty good job. Have I? Have I been perfect? Absolutely not. Am I still high? Sometimes? Yes. Do I still go low? Sometimes? Yes. Do I still eat crappy food? Sometimes, yes. But I also pay attention. I'm very involved. And I feel like if I can get out and share my story and talk to people like yourself and learn a little bit, I hope that people will just see that like, okay, I can do it, I can do whatever I want. I'm no different. It's just, you know, I always say that I'm driving a stick shift. Everybody else is driving an automatic.

Scott Benner 53:38
That's it. What do you think the keys are to the path that you're on?

Justin 53:43
I think it's just, you have to be very willing to put in the time and pay attention, right? I think a lot of us want the pill, right? Like if your blood pressure's high, just give me the pill. If your cholesterol is high, just just give me the pill we all we all want to do. The the eight minute ABS or the seven minute abs, nobody really wants to do that the hour in the gym. I think where the success comes is is you have to be willing to, to put in the time to to pay attention really put in the effort. Do a little exercise. Prep your meals, don't don't eat, don't in like I said I mean, from a mental standpoint, you got to go out with your friends and you gotta eat Red Robin every so often or whatever. I don't know why I keep using Red Robin.

Scott Benner 54:34
Every time you said it makes me think yum.

Justin 54:38
Exactly. But I think I think it's just it's just be be willing to pay attention and be willing to put in the time that it takes to manage it because it does take time and I've had frustrations all the time.

Scott Benner 54:51
And you just gotta you gotta get back to it that it's just I think so for me. The way I've learned to talk about it is that it that you just first need to understand how insulin works, right? Like, there's just nothing else is going to work if your settings are wrong, and you don't understand how the insulin actually works, from there, eliminating as many of the speed bumps as possible. That's what creates free time in your life and free space in your head. And you can actually go live the way you want to when you're always afraid. Like, I mean, honestly, the story here is you sleeping at work versus you sleeping at home, right at work, you're not sure what's going to come, you can never really relax. And if you don't know what's going to come with diabetes, you can find yourself in the same situation. So I you know, I just think that step one is understanding how insulin works. And then, you know, moving from there,

Justin 55:46
I think that that's huge, too, is kind of understanding how diabetes works. And I have been absolutely blown away by some of the people that I've talked to for the amount of time they've had diabetes. And not only them, but the people that are close to them, family members have no idea. And like I said, I have a just a quick little story. And this is what I see frequently. We went to a guy who was very hypoglycemic, we started an IV, we tuned him up, we got his blood sugar back, and within five minutes, he's up and he's feeling just fine, a little embarrassed, but neither he or his family knew how to treat hypoglycemia. This is what do we do? If that happens? Should we give him insulin? And I'm like, you want to kill them? Sure.

Scott Benner 56:31
That happens a lot. That really does happen a lot. People say that a lot. Well,

Justin 56:35
you know what's interesting, this guy had had diabetes for 25 years.

Scott Benner 56:39
The people around him no idea.

Justin 56:42
Not a clue. Not a clue. And so maybe he was maybe he was a little more educated. But I have a feeling if the people that were around him had no idea. He's probably not far behind that. Yeah, right. Right. Far ahead of

Scott Benner 56:55
it. In the end, it doesn't matter anyway. Because when someone gets dizzy, it's him. So yeah. We don't want the Dizzy guy being the only one with the information. So yeah, well, listen, we just it just I get the vibe, but you don't actually listen to the podcast, which is actually fine. I don't I don't mind. But how did you find it?

Justin 57:14
Yeah, so I did start listening to the podcast. But you're right before that I did. And so I listened to a lot of different health related podcasts. But I have not listened to anything diabetic specific. It wasn't until I first reached out to you that I started digging in to find more specific podcasts and even there's a camp local to us that I'm going to donate my time to for children that I started listening to podcasts like yours in I don't know why. Not that I know everything about diabetes or anything. I just felt. I don't know why I didn't listen to him. But But ultimately, yes, I am new to it was because I wanted to start sharing my story and in learning and being surrounded in, in the community of of folks like myself, right to just start offering my and sharing my experiences and learning from other people how they're doing it too, because I know there's people out there that are probably doing things differently than me that I can pick up some stuff from, or maybe doing it better than me too. So I think it just it makes it makes sense. It just took me a while to get there.

Scott Benner 58:24
Yeah, I mean, I understand. I mean, the reason I make the show, the way I make it is because it's my concern that people will like if we just got on and said the stuff. People would be like, I'm not this boring. You don't I mean, like I'm okay, I got a seven and a half a one. See, my doctor seems happy, like, why am I going to listen to this. So I've tried to mix it in more with people's stories. And you know, and then we slip the management in places, and hopefully everybody kind of comes along for the ride. But there's a Pro Tip series that helps people with management, there's both beginning series that helps newer people. One of them that I'm really proud of is the defining diabetes, because there's I don't know how many at this point, like dozens of terms that people just don't know. And they get like, think about it, like how do you not know how to stop a low blood sugar if you've had diabetes, but it's fairly common. And it's people who are like, the one that always sticks with me is that a lady said until I listened to your show, I didn't know I was on MDI. I also didn't know what MDI meant. Like imagine doing something every day you don't know the name of and yeah, you know, How good can you be at it? If you don't understand when someone says Bolus or hypoglycemia that your mind doesn't right away? No, hypo means blood you don't mean like, exactly like hearing it's like hearing a foreign language so you know

Justin 59:43
that it's it like my job. I've looked back at it and I we've I've had some very rewarding moments and for yourself, you have to feel that same way. When you hear a story like that, right like that. How cool is that that you are it's a very involved disease if you want to do Well add it in, you want to pay attention, right? It is, it's not as simple as just taking a pill for the most part, especially with type type one. So for you to be educating and helping folks and you hear someone say something like like that, that's got to be pretty rewarding for you.

Scott Benner 1:00:17
It is. And here's a good example of you only know what you know, earlier, you talked about your cannula getting knocked out, but you call it a catheter, because that's what you're, that's what you're surrounded with most of the time. Yeah, right. And not that, by the way, not that either of those is wrong. But like colloquially, you'd call it a cannula and you know that for sure. Right? And but you're so if you're, if you're not surrounded by the words, when you go to do something, how do you like, and then the words are tools. So if you don't have the tools, then how do you know what to do when you get into the situations and I mean, the way the healthcare system is set up, like you're not gonna, no one's gonna tell you any of that, like, so you're on your own to hopefully glean as much of it as you can, where are you going to find that from, especially when, as you know, you pointed out with your story, and many people have before, it's not like you're running around with a million people who have diabetes, and you can all kind of like, lean on each other a little bit. You know, what

Justin 1:01:08
I really appreciate appreciate about your podcasts, especially as I started listening to it in I felt this way, when our physicians are overwhelmed, right, and whether that's a general practitioner, or an endocrinologist, or whoever it is that you see, thinking about 20 minutes with you. In my personal opinion, it's not enough time, I can't tell you how many times I've spoke with my endocrinologist, which I really enjoy. But I feel like they're not going to remember the the conversation that I just had with them. 20 minutes after I'm gone, they're on from one person to the next into the next into the next. So it's, it's our duty, as a diabetic and my duty as a diabetic to to, to be very involved myself, no one's going to do it for me, but also to share what isn't isn't working for me, because I've been frustrated with my physicians, because I can just tell that they don't have the time. They can't sit down there with you and baby you through all these things. You really have to pay attention to do these things yourself. And that's why I think podcasts like yours, where you're educating people are the people who are willing to hop on and listen and do it. I mean, it's the it's going to be the best route for you.

Scott Benner 1:02:14
I can't tell you how, in the beginning, I had a blog, and it was popular. And it helped people I could tell by the feedback, but the leap from a blog to a podcast for how many people you hear back from and how much more quickly they can absorb the information and all the all that stuff. It's been like, it's crazy. I am honestly at the point now, where if I don't hear from 20 people a day, I think the internet's broken, you know, there's nothing wrong with the internet, how come I'm not getting the emails and the notes today? Like, you know, I mean, I just take your point. It's, it's, it's a perfect distribution system for this sort of stuff. And I'm glad it exists because you meet a person who was just diagnosed. And maybe I never say hi to them, maybe I don't know them, but they know me. And they know this conversation. And I just think about 20 years from now, when their life just kind of rolling along. They'll, they'll have forgotten about me by then, which is absolutely fine. Like I don't I don't want people mired in it. I want them to, like thrive, you know. And it's just it's very cool to think that you're impacting something like that they had the real opportunity to go the wrong way. Yeah, but your, your point about the doctor's appointments. So my, my son just got his first job and left the house and my daughter's in college. And as soon as I, I was like, Alright, I'm gonna, like take care of better hair myself. Like, there are things my body doesn't do well, that I'm like, I've been ignoring this my whole life, like I'm going to figure it out. But through making the podcast, we met a integrative endocrinologist that helps my whole family with their thyroid issues. And I thought, I'm just gonna go to her. Like, she's like, don't get me wrong. She's the cache doctor. You know what I mean? But But here's, here's the difference. My initial appointment was 90 minutes long. I sat in a chair, she sat next to me, we chatted, I went over my entire life health history, she took notes she got done, she said, here are the three areas I think we need to do blood tests for I went to I mean, I can't believe I didn't run out of blood the other day when I was when I was at the lab. And when those tests come back in a couple of days, I don't have to go back and see her again. She's gonna send me an email. Your tests are back. We're gonna do the things we talked about here, here and here. Is there a place I can send a prescription to where blah, blah, blah, or do this? And it's happening, it's happening. It's happening. It's not like I see them. The test comes back four months later, I get another appointment. I cancel it because my kid fell. And then it's now it's nine months later, they ended octopus. I have to run those labs again. They're too old. Like it's that hell you get stuck in, you know? So, I mean, I don't know what we'll think You're out or what we won't figure out. But I know for certain there's an honest, focused effort going into it. And I can still turn into my insurance who will pay for most of it. So it's hard. That's, you know,

Justin 1:05:12
as I say, it's, it's rare that you have found that and that's why I've recently just had an appointment yesterday with the doctor who specializes in functional medicine, just because I know that I'm not completely happy with my endocrinologist, but at the, you know, where I'm at, I feel like most of the times my visit for them is just to update a prescription. And they look over my trends. But I mean, when you're looking at three months worth of blood sugar data, and you do it over a 15 minute period, I mean, what are they really? Are they really getting out of it? And he looks at me when seeing he's like, Oh, you're at 6.1. He's like, that looks really good. He's like, Oh, I see you had 40 in there. Don't be 40 anymore. I'm like, Okay, that sounds good. Was there anything else I can do for you how your how your prescriptions are they fall? Like, well, I can probably use, you know, a refill on the Novolog. He's like, okay, good. Well, hey, we'll see in three months, wherever you get your bloodwork done. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:06:01
he's your drug dealer. Really? He's your drug dealer? Justin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%, you bump into him on the corner, he acts like he cares about you a little bit gives you a prescription for a job, okay, full pen and some insulin and you're on your way. Again, you made it more eloquently stated earlier, it's not their fault. Like, it's just the whole things like this, you know, I had a Yeah, I can't say with who. But I got invited to grand rounds at a pretty prestigious hospital. So like, I'm going to give the talk at Grand Rounds. Right? And hopefully very cool. That'll all come together. And but while we were setting it up on the phone, I said, you know, can I float an idea I've had to you that I've a lot of people have like, heard and been like, oh, we can't do it. It's always around insurance. And I said type ones, type twos also, but type ones very specifically, stop seeing them 15 minutes at a time. Why don't you have them all come into an auditorium and talk to them for three hours? Why not do it that way? You know, and then run around at the end and do the personal hand, whatever you got to do for insurance. I'm like, but they all have the same questions, or they all have the same idea. You know what I mean? Like do it all at once I say let them sign something that waives their HIPAA rights if they want to, like talk out loud or something like that. But but that's a better way. It's really it's a podcast in person. And that's a great idea. And I've sent it to a couple of hospitals. Some of them are like, Oh, it's insurance problems. It's HIPAA issues. But the last time I sent it to somebody, the person on the other end of the phone said, Boy, I've thought about that, too. And I'm like, should do it should do a pilot program with 20 people, you know, and see if you can't see a measured difference. So anyway, there's a free idea for everybody. That's all I kept you longer than I said, I was going to you okay. No, I'm

Justin 1:07:54
absolutely fine. Yeah. All right.

Scott Benner 1:07:55
Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have? No, you know, I

Justin 1:07:58
think for me, and hopefully, in the future, I'll jump on here with you again, you know, but but for me, it was just wanting the chance to get on and just chat about being a type one diabetic and, and, you know, 30 years is or 31 years is not the oldest living diabetic out there. And not the longest by a longshot but, but I just want people to, for me, I want people to know that you can be successful. You know, there's a lot of great technology out there. You can do anything you want to do. I mean, I'm a very active person, we travel a lot, we do a lot of fun things, you're not limited by anything. And so for me, that's that's kind of my big thing is, is just being able to hop on with individuals, like yourself, learn a few things from you share a few things about my life, and hopefully, like like, you know, educating people and people say, Wow, that's great. I can't believe that. I didn't know that now. I know that. Yeah. I'm hoping hoping people will will catch something from me.

Scott Benner 1:09:02
I think they will. This is a terrific conversation. Do you have like social media where people can find you? Yeah, so

Justin 1:09:07
I just have a personal Instagram account. And it's it's at J Maurice. That's my middle name. It's J M. Au, our ice 81 My birth year.

Scott Benner 1:09:19
Give it to me again. I'm gonna look it up. J.

Justin 1:09:21
J. Maurice. 81 is J M. Au our ice 81

Scott Benner 1:09:27
for there at other J Maurices on Instagram. You wouldn't think that there

Justin 1:09:33
would be but it just just J Maurice wasn't wasn't available. And most of what I post on there is is my my young little daughters because they're they're more fun than me.

Scott Benner 1:09:43
Yeah. All right. Well, cool. I hope people can reach out and find you there. I really do appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much.

Justin 1:09:50
Yeah, Scott was nice to meet you. And I hope like I said one day in the future. I hope we can chat again and stay in touch and maybe I can bring you some information and I I can learn from you. And like I said, I've started listening to your podcasts. And I've been more focused on that. Because for me wanting to be more involved in deliver, hopefully deliver education and continue to learn things, and especially show young children that, you know, I was young too, and I had it in kind of a look at me now, I hope to stay involved. And I hope to chat with you again.

Scott Benner 1:10:24
All right. I'm going to ask you one more thing before you go. I appreciate all that. Sure. How the hell did you get more racism? middle name?

Justin 1:10:30
Oh, yeah, right. I know. Not very, not a very typical, and it wasn't that whose family did you? Well, my dad's best friend's name was Maury. And so they originally wanted to name me after my dad's not my mom. But my dad and his best friend wanted to name me, Maury. And my mom was like, No way.

Scott Benner 1:10:54
She's like, Oh, yeah, so

Justin 1:10:56
somehow they came up with Maurice and it landed is my my middle that I do have I have three first names. My My last name is also a first name.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
Well, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but your episode title might be the pomp what does that line from that Song Pop Pop potamus of love eponymous of love or however you said is it? Yes. The Joker?

Justin 1:11:20
The Steely Dan song? I think it is.

Scott Benner 1:11:23
Is it not? Steve Miller? How do you not know?

Justin 1:11:26
Steve is Steve Miller? Yes. Yeah, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:11:29
I'm like, am I barking up the wrong tree here? I think it's in the Joker. Right? Everybody calls people call me more people call me Murray's. Yeah, well, that might be your episode title. Hey, I love it. That's really wonderful. I have said it before. And I'll say it again. My middle name is terrible. And I'm never gonna say it on here. Maybe on the last episode, but I'll tell you when we get off. So thank you very much. I appreciate it. You got it. A huge thanks to Justin for coming on the show today and sharing his story. I also want to thank Dexcom dexcom.com/juice box head over Now get yourself a Dexcom G seven or maybe a G six. Of course the podcast was also sponsored today by us med. You can get your diabetes supplies just the same way we do at US med. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do something with you right now. I got an email the other day that Arden's Omni pod supplies, were ready for filling. I found the email. I've clicked According to our records, your prescriptions or supplies are due for refill blah, blah, blah, check my address. Reorder, it's done. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 hand to God as they say I just reordered Arden's Omni pod supplies through us mud in the time that you heard me do that. Honestly, I kind of forgotten about the email that arrived the other day. I was just downstairs a half an hour ago. My wife's like, hey, there was a phone call from us med about reordering supplies, which means the email came after I had it for a few days and I didn't reply. They started calling my house. My wife reminded me I came up here found myself making this ad completely just randomly, and you listen to me reorder the Omni pods. That's how long it took. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1052 After Dark: Restaurateur

Nicole has type 1 diabetes, owns a restaurant and is here to tell her stories.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1052 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'll be speaking with Nicole. She's had type one diabetes since she was 21 months old and she's now over 40. Today we talk about owning a restaurant, drug and alcohol use, and much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician. Before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. You want to get five free travel packs in the year supply of vitamin D, use my link drink ag one.com/juice box because that's what you'll get with your first order at that link. Speaking of things you'll get 40% off at checkout with the offer code juice box. At cozy earth.com. You get a great insulin pump at Omni pod.com/juice box and amazing CGM at dexcom.com/juice box. As a matter of fact, when you use any of the links from the Juicebox Podcast, you're gonna get great stuff. And you'll be supporting the podcast. So give that stuff a look, would you? There's links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Go get your Omni pod five right now at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Today's show is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com Ford slash juicebox. Get yourself an incredibly accurate an easy to use blood glucose meter. Get the contour next gen.

Nicole 1:59
My name is Nicole. I have been a type one diabetic since I was 21 months old. And I am about to be 40 this year. Wow. Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:10
not quite too. So 38 years about

Nicole 2:15
Yeah, yeah, goodness. Yeah, it was 38 years. It's been my really literally the whole life. I don't remember life before diabetes. No

Scott Benner 2:24
kidding. One thing nickeled try not to like, follow Yeah, just yeah, whatever that is that might be allowed chair or I'm not sure what you're doing right now. Also, interestingly enough, I was going to real quick do the math on what year it was when you were diagnosed? And then I realized I'm not 100% sure what year it is right now.

Nicole 2:45
I was diagnosed in 1985. Okay, wow. Yeah. My mom was pregnant with my sister. So my sister and I are exactly two years and two weeks apart. So I was diagnosed in July of 1985. And my mom was due with my sister. I think her due date was actually scheduled for the end of August. And yeah, then diabetes walked in and messed it up for

Scott Benner 3:14
you besides your sister, any other siblings?

Nicole 3:17
Nope. Just the just the sister. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:20
How about diabetes, autoimmune in your family.

Nicole 3:24
So my sister has Hashimotos. She was diagnosed few years ago. But as far as we know, no other autoimmune. My grandmother has had really terrible arthritis. I don't know whether it was rheumatoid or not. I don't. I can't remember if all of the arthritis is or autoimmune or if it's just the rheumatoid but anyhow, so she, but that's the only that's the only history that we have. Now, with that said, I didn't really know my dad's side of the family. So I mean, it might exist there. And we just were not familiar but

Scott Benner 4:00
yeah, okay. Yeah. Um, I don't think all arthritis is not on me. And I'm gonna look real quick. Yeah, I

Nicole 4:08
don't think that they are. I really thought just rheumatoid. But again, I don't know if what she had whether it was thought or not. Yeah, passed away a couple of years ago.

Scott Benner 4:15
I say, Yeah, this year says like, osteo. Excuse me. Osteoarthritis is not an autoimmune disease. Right. Okay. So, real quick before we move on your sister, do you think she had Hashimotos for much longer than she realized? Where do you think it came on?

Nicole 4:31
I think I think she probably had it for longer than she realized. My sister struggled a lot through high school and growing up with like, various, various issues. But she when she got married, she was trying to get pregnant and was having trouble conceiving when they did a bunch of tests on or to see what the issues were Hashimotos popped up as, as one of the problems so yeah, yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:56
don't need you to tell me a lot. I'm not asking you to tell me about I was just interested in About Oh, that's great. Yeah,

Nicole 5:01
I think she's probably had it for a long time. But we really kind of went undiagnosed and not not familiar.

Scott Benner 5:07
So what I mean, your, your note to me is, is simple and short. So I'm wondering what made you want to come on the podcast?

Nicole 5:17
Well, so like I said, I've been listening to you for a really long time, like, I want to say, probably pretty close to the beginning. I don't know how I stumbled upon your podcast, but I really have been listening to it for a long, long time. I'm part of the Facebook page. And you had reached out on Facebook at one point trying to find some people to do after dark episodes. So that's kind of what I volunteered with. I have a few, like, topics that I think might be relevant to an after dark, but that's kind of why I reached out to you.

Scott Benner 5:50
Well, Nicole, listen, yeah, thank you for for responding. When I did that. I have to tell you. I used to have trouble getting after dark episodes in the beginning, right? It was like, Hey, can somebody and people were just like, you know, every once in a while you get somebody to jump up in the butt anymore? No trouble. I don't think

Nicole 6:12
the taboo came out of it. Because you were doing them enough. I imagine that people got less afraid of talking about some of the subjects that you were discussing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:21
Well, the problem ended up being is that I put the call out thinking I was still in the same position. And now I've got I've got 25 recordings of people who like, you know, at some point in their conversations, had my life said dumpster fire.

Nicole 6:36
Well, and I think leading up to this call as well, I really went I had initially messaged you saying, Oh, we could do an after dark. I had some topics I thought were relevant and that we could discuss. But it doesn't need to be that way either. I mean, again, I've been doing this for a long time. So there's some I mean, lots of topics that we can talk about that are necessarily after dark.

Scott Benner 7:00
Sure. Sure. Well, yeah. So let's just go and I mean, we don't have to, like point ourselves in one direction. Although now everyone listening is like, well, whoa,

Nicole 7:08
what's, what's her secret? What does she want to talk about?

Scott Benner 7:11
Maybe we'll get to it. But you know, I've never done this before. But because you've been listening for so long. I'm gonna let you lead the way. What do you want to tell?

Nicole 7:21
Oh, yeah, I think I've been kind of through the thick and thin of it. I mean, I know you have a lot of a lot of people on as well that have been in this in this disease for a long time. And I wanted to kind of, you know, I guess, share my story and my version of it. Like I said, I was diagnosed at 21 months old, there was no life before diabetes, it was just always what I did. My family's life revolved around diabetes as well. So my sister lived like a diabetic, she, she there was no sugar. When we went trick or treating as kids, obviously, we would both collect whatever candy we could get. And then my mom would buy the candy off of us. So it's not like my sister was like, living like a normal kid with, you know, a bunch of sugar lying around, she could just do whatever she wanted. She really looked like a diabetic too, which is kind of funny. And I, you know, when I, I'm a part of a lot of different Facebook groups for type ones. And I think sometimes I give, you know, suggestions of things that my mom did, growing up that I thought were really kind of creative and wonderful. And then I think treating the whole house like we all had the disease was was a nice way of dealing with it. I never felt ashamed of diabetes. It was never an embarrassing point for me. All the kids at my school knew, and they all knew what to do in the event that something bad happened.

Scott Benner 8:50
Really how love the teachers, your mom, did your mom, like come into the school and explain that everybody?

Nicole 8:55
Yeah, yeah. My mom was very she was very present at the school. So I actually went to a little tiny country school. I grew up almost across the street from the school, but it was in the country and on a pretty busy highway. So we had to be bused in or drove in. And my mom did a lot of my mom was a stay at home mom when I was a kid. So she went to a lot of the, you know, she would volunteer for recess to be one of the I forget what they were called the parents that like walked around and made sure the kids were misbehaving or whatever. She became on all the field trips, she did all of those things. So yeah, she was she was very present. And then, before the school year started, she made a point of sitting down with every teacher and talking to them about what to expect and I mean, I'm in Canada. I don't know if I mentioned that at the beginning. But so our system is a little bit different up here. We don't have school nurses or whatever. But anyway, so she always made a point of being present at the school and I just again, I really don't think that it was ever like something that I shied away from. Everybody just knew. Again, it was a tiny school. So, the kids I went to school with in kindergarten were the same kids I went to school with in grade six, like, there wasn't a lot of turnover. And, you know, they all just, they were familiar. They knew. They knew when does

Scott Benner 10:11
that ever mean? Did that ever come into play? Like, did a child ever help you or I had

Nicole 10:16
a, I passed out one time at school. So like I said, I was diagnosed in 85. And when I was first diagnosed, we were on the, you know, kind of two needles a day. And he Mulan and our and we were very scheduled. It was like, breakfast at 7am. lunch at noon, dinner at 530. There was no, if you were 15 minutes late for any of those things, you know, it was going to be a problem. And so I remember one time, I had joined the school choir was on my way to choir practice at lunch, and I had decided to skip my lunch until after choir was done. And so we were walking to choir practice, and I passed out on the way down the hall. And a friend of mine was behind me. So she she realized that I was fainting, and she put her arms out, caught me and dragged me down to the principal's office. And when they got there, they just said Nicole passed out to help her. So they I mean, obviously the principal's office had everything that they needed. But yeah, I mean, the kids were giving me sugar or anything, but it also, if I needed to excuse myself in class by the teachers, or let me go to the bathroom whenever I wanted to. I was allowed to have sugar at my desk if I wanted to, you know, and everybody just knew it's not like they helped. But they also didn't make a big deal out of it. If I if I needed something.

Scott Benner 11:36
I see. Being from Canada, does that change how the healthcare system works for you?

Nicole 11:40
Well, yeah, so I am in Ontario specifically. And we have, obviously good health health coverage here. And when I was young, I was always on my parent's health care plan as well. So you know, hospital visits, things like that were never an issue getting supplies access to supplies were never an issue, it just was generally covered, became a bit of a problem. When it came time to go on the pump. I went on the pump at 18. So I mean, that's going back again, 20 years ago, I was probably pretty early, one of the early adopters of an insulin pump. At that point, I remember it being a little bit tricky, trying to figure out which company was going to cover what and you had to apply for one program to cover some of your you know, one of your insurance plans with cover some of the supplies and some of them were covered in a different way. So I mean, it's still a bit of a challenge to figure out how you're going to get your supplies covered. But I mean, all of my supplies get paid for I don't pay for anything out of pocket.

Scott Benner 12:44
It's different province to province, I guess I should say. I should probably say like province, but like from province to province. It's different, right?

Nicole 12:51
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So Ontario has a pretty good, a pretty good health care plan. I think Alberta is up there with one of the better ones. They're pretty advanced in terms of what gets covered by the government. And then what gets covered privately as well.

Scott Benner 13:07
Do you recall what your first pump was? What brand it was? Yeah, I've

Nicole 13:10
never moved from Medtronic. I've been on Medtronic the whole time.

Scott Benner 13:13
Okay. Oh, all right. So yeah.

Nicole 13:15
So when I was young, I remember when it was time for a pump. You know, I was, I was not a good diabetic. When I was in high school, I did a lot of, you know, lying and sneaking food and all of that stuff. I wasn't good at it. And I remember going to the doctor's office, and the doctor had said, my mom had said to him at that point, I couldn't tell you what my agencies were, but I know they were bad. And I remember my mom saying to him, you know, what, what do you suggest we do? Like I'm at a loss. I don't know what else to do. And he kind of threw his hands up in the air. And he's like, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. She just she's kind of beyond help. And my mom said, Well, that's not an option. We're not just gonna give up. She said, I've been reading a lot about these insulin pumps. What do you think about that? And he said, Oh, no, they're useless waste of time. Don't even bother. My mom again was like, that's also not good enough. So she switched it and knows immediately we went to find an endocrinologist that believed in insulin pumps and I was transferred to a program where they very quickly put me on a put me on the pump. So at the time, I think they had Medtronic animus and there was a third one, I can't remember what it was. I think Medtronic is the only one still hanging around. But anyway, I went on Medtronic right away. And and I've never switched. You said

Scott Benner 14:38
something a minute ago. I want to ask you about Yeah, I hear a lot of like, a lot of adults use this phrase. Like I wasn't a good diabetic, right. When you say that? I do you mean good. Like good at it. We're good. We're good. Like your intentions for it. That makes sense.

Nicole 14:55
Like yeah, it does me i Yeah. Again, I think about that the clinic that I was And there was there were good diabetics, and there were bad diabetics. And it was there was always sort of this, like, if you didn't test your blood sugar's enough, if you didn't, you know, do your injections on time, if you there was lots of reasons why they would kind of say you're, you know, you're being bad. I think there was a bit of shame to it.

Scott Benner 15:19
Yeah, a lot. It's what it sounds like. But it's the sort of it's the things. So that's the

Nicole 15:23
thing. It's the actionable items, I was always, you know, I It's not like I was wildly out of control. But sometimes I would forget to test sometimes I would eat and forget to give insulin, you know, things like that I wasn't great at carb counting. So there was lots of things that I think I felt like I was being bad at. And when we switched to the other clinic, I remember going in and seeing this doctor for the first time and we sat down and I sat in the office and I kind of cried, I was like, I know that I'm bad. And I'm sorry for being bad. And I just I don't know how to be better.

Scott Benner 16:02
The contour next gen blood glucose meter is incredibly accurate. It's got an easy to read screen, it fits well in your hand. And it features Second Chance test strips, contour next.com/juicebox. At this link, you'll learn all about the contour meters, find other links where you can buy them online, that the meters and the test strips, and did you know that those things may be cheaper in cash than you're paying now for other stuff through your insurance, that's actually true, you should check on that as well. Contour Next One comm forward slash juice box. It's a fantastic website. It's a weird thing to say about a website for a glucose meter. But it tells you everything you want to know gives you all the links you need. It's easy to read, everything's right there. It's the meter my daughter uses. It's accurate. I trust it contour next one.com/juicebox. Speaking of things that I trust, the Omni pod is a device that my daughter has been wearing since she was four years old, she is now 19 She's worn an omni pod every day for all of that time has been nothing but a friend to us in this journey. And there are a couple of unique reasons why I think you would enjoy it too. For one, there's no tubing for another, you can wear it while you're showering or swimming without having to disconnect. If you play a sport, you can leave it on there too. There's no tubing to get caught. And no bulky punk. Like you know, on a belt or strap to your pants or whatever. You don't have to stuff something in your bra. I know how people have to get around with these two bombs. That problem doesn't exist with the on the pod. Also, you're gonna want to check into Omni pods options, you can get the Omni pod dash, or the Omni pod five, one runs from an algorithm and makes decisions for you. And one is more of what we might call an OG insulin pump. Either one is a fantastic choice, Omni pod.com/juice box head over there now, I think I think I think I think you may be able to get a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod, you have to go check it out. The links fantastic Omni pod.com/juice box when you use the links, you're supporting the Juicebox Podcast and helping to keep these episodes free.

Nicole 18:19
And she looked at me and she goes, honey, it's not your fault it if you're not having good blood sugars, or if your agency isn't right, you have to understand that there's a whole team behind you. And it's all of our faults. We're not doing our jobs either. Don't blame yourself for it. And it was the first time anybody had ever been

Scott Benner 18:37
shared the responsibility with you. Yeah, exactly. And at that point,

Nicole 18:40
I was 18 I'd spent almost my whole life being told that I was bad at it.

Scott Benner 18:46
No, you're fine. What I was gonna say is that your first doctor was bad at it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you're following the lead, right? If you're being coached and your coach isn't good, and so your your results are what I mean, it's, it's like eating right? What do they say? Like you are what you eat, right? So he's, he's the food you're eating his information and you're getting, you know, stomach cramps and, and bloating. And that's just because he sucks. So so. So when you move to this other person, and you open up to them, and they they respond by by sharing the blame, or the burden, I guess, honestly, do you make a shift there

Nicole 19:27
that at that point, then I went on to that they got me right away onto the pump. And that was a huge game changer for me. And I did I became very interested in what my blood sugar's were I got interested in keeping good notes. And I just Yeah, I did. I took much more of an interest to it. And I just it there wasn't again, there wasn't any shame anymore. So I did spend a lot of time as a kid. Like I said to If I forgot to test sometimes I would just fill in the numbers or fill in the blanks, you know, I'd be getting ready to go to clinic and I would bring out my chart with all of my blood sugar's written on it, and it would, and they'd have a bunch of holes. And I would just fill them in. Like, I think today, I must have been 5.6. Just put in numbers, that sounded good. And that made me feel good. The doctors obviously knew better, I'm sure they're looking at my blood sugar's going, there's no way you're running a whatever, a one C, and you're saying that you're five all the time?

Scott Benner 20:29
Yeah. But so, you know, it's just, I know that we think that our lives are this like, snowflake, you know, and we're making all these decisions and shaping ourselves, etc. But when you're kids, even when you're an adult, like you are shaped by the things around you, the, you know, the input that comes from other people, expectations that are set, you know, milestones, following through like that stuff, like someone easily could have set different expectations for you. Now, I don't know that it doesn't mean you would have reached them. Because you might not have been getting good, you know, advice from your physician. But at least it doesn't take that much to set someone up with a reasonable expectation and a reasonable plan, and let them see even a reasonable amount of success so that they can they can believe in those things, and then continue to apply them and multiply. And yeah, it just it's kind of obvious need to hear you talk about it. Not neat. Because it was because it was your life, but But it's interesting to hear you talk about it like how like a simple little thing like that. And not for anyone listening like Not, not like unreasonable expectations, like every test has to be 100. And you need to be taller and prettier and faster, like not all that just within your own thing in your own. Yeah,

Nicole 21:55
yes, let's make this attainable. Let's try for something attainable. And yeah, I spent a lot of time feeling like it. I couldn't reach their goals. They were just impossible. They felt so far away. And so at some point, you kind of go, Well, why bother? Yeah, and I'm never gonna get there.

Scott Benner 22:13
Honestly, thank God for your mom's reaction. Because his the new goal that the first doctor set for you was very attainable, which was failure failure. He was he was telling you give up. Yeah, your dad. Oh, you easily could have meant that. You don't I mean, and she steps up and says we're not going to do that.

Nicole 22:31
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank God for my mom was right, because she spent she did she was she really pushed? She was like, again, that answer is not good enough. And I'll go find somebody who has the answer I'm looking for.

Scott Benner 22:43
Where do you think she What do you think she learned that? What did she wrestle polar bears professionally? I don't know, trout fishermen. But with that she did she catch trout right out of the river. But they're so funny.

Nicole 22:56
She, again, when I think back, she was so forward thinking in a lot of her ways. And, you know, she was really, like, I had diabetes through the 80s and early 90s. She had a pager. So if things went, if things went crazy while I was at school, they could page her, which the only people that had pagers back then were doctors and drug dealers

Scott Benner 23:18
and drug dealers. That's exactly my mom. And my mom,

Nicole 23:21
she carried a pager around. Again, I said that thing about the Halloween. I mean, that was very different. I just, I think for her, she always just, you had a podcast a couple of weeks ago that I listened to where they talked about just this idea of like, not being held back, like diabetes wasn't going to hold me back. And I think she just always felt like that, like, this will just be as normal as possible. And we'll be, we'll all be as normal as possible. But yeah, but at the same time, healthcare is critically important. And so we'll do whatever we have to do in order to make sure she's healthy.

Scott Benner 23:57
Yeah. And I guess the fully pack in the context like you, you were diagnosed at a time where management was not terrific. Like, you know, the options weren't really like, yeah, nearly what they are now, obviously, and maybe for the doctor, was he an older man? Do you remember?

Nicole 24:13
Yeah, he was. Yeah, I had a my first endo was actually a really compassionate lovely man. But he ended up I think, moving to a moving to a different job. I think he was moved somewhere out west to work at a at a university or something out there. Anyhow, so I ended up with this new doctor and he came along while I was in high school. So I'd been at that point, I'd had diabetes for quite a long time. And but yeah, he was an older man. In fact, shortly after I left from that clinic and found a new Endo. I heard that he had passed away so he wasn't he was much older and didn't have a very again forward thinking mentality,

Scott Benner 24:53
but was at least kind. Exactly yeah, yes. Yeah, little kindness doesn't hurt to call you No, no. No. How you doing? You said you were nervous at the beginning isn't getting better?

Nicole 25:04
Yeah, thank you good. Is it good? Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:06
you're doing great. Okay, so, I mean, not that I need this to be like after dark material, but I feel like there's a story in here and it's part of it. And you feel more comfortable. It's interesting. When you were being more like just anecdotal and telling a bigger story, you wandered. But when you start talking about details, you're much more focused. So I feel I feel like we want to, like, do that, like, kind of go that way. So you've, you make it through, you know, make it through the first doctor. Next doctor helps you get the pump. And how old were you when you got the pump?

Nicole 25:43

I was 18 years old. I remember, just towards the end of high school,

Scott Benner 25:47
and you were leaving high school with what intentions?

Nicole 25:51
So I was off to university, I was ready to go, I had been working at a part time job that I really loved. And when I was getting ready to leave, he said to me, Well, so what are your plans for the future? What do you want to do with your life? And I said, Oh, God, I have no idea. And he said, Well, I said, to be honest, I'd like to own your he was a bakery I worked at I said one day, I want to own your bakery. And he goes, Well, you know what, the University of Guelph has a really great hospitality program. Why don't you get into that? And one day, come back and we'll talk. And so I did. So I went to a Hospitality and Tourism Program. It's a university degree anyway.

Scott Benner 26:30
Did you come back and, and vicious takeovers Miss Baker?

Nicole 26:38
Back. As far as I know, he still owns it. It's still there. It's been it's forever.

Scott Benner 26:45
So when you head off to this, when you head off to university with your new pump and your diet and your new diabetes, like ideas, how do you make How do you make out through those years?

Nicole 26:57
Um, so I think that's where I was going to talk about some of the kind of, you know, I guess after dark topics that we were going to talk about my willingness, I guess, to play around with alcohol, for sure. It was, I was not afraid of what was going to happen if I drank too much if I, you know, passed out from alcohol it. When I went into university, I was ready to have some fun. I never played with drugs. It was never on my list of things to do. I smoked a bit of pot, but that was about it. And I didn't generally like the person I became when I smoked weed. So I had stopped but

Scott Benner 27:35
who did you become when you smoked weed? Oh, so that was a federally poll. That was a very fun noise. You went you wouldn't? Let me tell you.

Nicole 27:51
I am generally a very kind and very patient. Calm, friendly. I always want people to be happier. Tell me, you know, and I would turn into the Hulk. It was I would rage I would get so angry. And you know, I couldn't stand my friends that were giggling. They'd be smoking pot. You know how they get the giggles and I would be like, shut up. I hated life. Why are you laughing so much? Nothing is funny. I just I would rage and I did it a few times. And I thought I don't like this version of me. I'm not doing I

Scott Benner 28:25
can't believe your friends like you did it again.

Nicole 28:28
I know. Because they were giggly and high. They had a good time with it. They realized how upset it made me

Scott Benner 28:35
it made you so you. So they lost their inhibitions in one way, but you lost yours in a different way.

Nicole 28:41
I couldn't be nice anymore.

Scott Benner 28:44
So here are so here's my question, Nicole. Are you nice? Or do you have a lot of rage inside of you? And that helped you let it out?

Nicole 28:52
Oh, yeah, I have a lot of rage inside of me. I'm generally I you know, wake up most days at 100 and have to kind of call myself down. I don't know why I am I'm generally a pretty angry person. But I yeah, maybe that's it. It just exposed.

Scott Benner 29:11
What was your I didn't like this is what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking like you, you're relaxed. You're like, well, now I don't have to pretend to like these modes

Nicole 29:23
very live a very lonely life.

Scott Benner 29:29
So what is there something you can point to in your life that made you angry?

Nicole 29:34
No, I really, I don't know. I don't think that there's anything specific specific. No, no, I had a pretty I had a pretty normal childhood. Like, my parents were together until they split up when I was maybe 13. Like I said little country school knew I had lots of friends. Very popular. I there was nothing that attributed to the rage. I'm not really sure where it came from. So he Yeah, I think

Scott Benner 30:01
as an adult, you still have it.

Nicole 30:05
Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 30:07
Is there anything you do to try to like, let the pressure off once in a while?

Nicole 30:12
Yes and no, like I'm trying now to do. So like I said, I love listening to your podcasts. There's a bunch that I listened to including a bunch on how to overcome some of those things. So just, you know, journaling and things like that. I play around with

Scott Benner 30:30
it's not it's not anxiety, right, Nicole? It's just you have a low tolerance for

Nicole 30:36
Ah, yeah, I do it which is funny because again, like, I have a lot of people say like, you're the most patient person I've ever met. Like, you have such a you have you let people walk all over you and you let it you know, it takes a lot to finally make me explode. But when I do I go once I explode, I really go. Okay, let's

Scott Benner 31:00
let me ask you a couple of questions. Have you ever had your thyroid checked?

Nicole 31:04
Yeah, I'm on thyroid medication. I

Scott Benner 31:06
am. What's your TSH? Do? You know?

Nicole 31:08
I think the last one was two. I had my bloodwork done back in.

Scott Benner 31:13
Good. Good, good, good. Religion. None, none. Little, little interesting. Hold on a second. Did anything happen in your life that was traumatic, even to another person in your family that you wish wouldn't have happened? Car accident, like anything?

Nicole 31:32
No, nothing, nothing like that. I think some of maybe some of my trauma again comes back to the diabetes, you know, as much as I say, so I suffered from a lot of really bad low blood sugars when I was a kid. I don't think I've ever heard you interview a person. That hallucinated with Lowe's. I don't know if you have but you are one of them. I full blown hallucinations with a low blood sugar like so as

Scott Benner 31:58
you describe that to me, please.

Nicole 32:00
So I don't know. They must have been seizures. i We didn't call them seizures. We called them reactions. They were generally middle of the night when I listened to your episode with Arden kind of describing her her seizure and the shifting the room kind of the jumping, I think she called it. For me, it was always the shifting. So I could, the floor would suddenly shift and I'd feel kind of unattached or, you know, off balance. Yeah. And that but a lot of times I would wake up in the night with these reactions, which were like I said, full blown hallucination. So I would start to see things in the, in the bedroom. And, like terrifying things. As a kid, I don't know how you describe them, like monsters and snakes and bugs and all the things that you're afraid of, and they would all be in my bedroom. And I would start to scream and cry, of course. And my parents would read in and they would also be these horrible creatures, you know, like terrifying monsters are covered in bugs covered in snakes, I just remember so many times they would come in and they would have to try to you know, get me sugar and whatever way they could, but without seeing them. You know, I couldn't look at them because they were so terrifying. But they had to, they had to grab me and hold me down to get generally they did corn syrup. That's what they would use to get in my mouth because at least then some of it would be absorbed through your cheeks, my cheeks and then I mean corn syrup was less likely to be spit everywhere. Like it's kind of hard to spit out syrup. But it was you know, thick and when went right in. So anyways, but there was a lot of hallucinations. My mom used to tell the story about one time she came in and the room was full of. According to me, the room was full of flies. There were flies everywhere. So she grabbed my she sat me down on her lap, and she shoved my head over her shoulder so I couldn't see her face anymore. And my dad was on the other side, jamming the corn syrup in. And then they waited a little bit and my twitching slowed down and they realized that it was probably over so they kind of pulled me back so I could look at at my mom again. And I looked at her face that I slapped her. Which one was that for? And I said there was a bug on your face. She still had a fly on her face according I mean, she did it but that's what I saw was this. Did you ever

Scott Benner 34:23
did you ever hear your parents say to each other? Oh, great thing we had kids. What a decision.

Nicole 34:31
I can't imagine being my poor mother being pregnant with the second one going. I think we made a we made a mistake.

Scott Benner 34:39
We made a mistake. Can low blood sugar cause psychosis? It is well known that hypoglycemia can lead to psychiatric symptoms ranging from delirium and confusion states of psychosis. So that's not unusual, but you're right. I've never heard anybody talk about it.

Nicole 34:57
Yeah. And I thought that it was very common, but the more I listened to your show, the more I realized that people just people that wasn't normal.

Scott Benner 35:07
Were they're not admitting to it in a call,

Nicole 35:09
or they're not talking about it. Maybe they don't have any memories of it. But it was very scary as a kid, it

Scott Benner 35:13
was very, very Yeah. Listen, I didn't I don't have diabetes. But soon after my parents, like split up, I was probably in my early teens, like 1314 around there. And I would have a reoccurring nightmare that a giant talking Spider was up in the corner of my room, and it would tell me it was going to kill my parents. And one night, I got out of bed and felt like I had gone downstairs, like to use the bathroom. And I was in the bathroom. And I thought I was awake. And but the Spider was still there. Right? And then I woke myself up and it was gone. So I somehow like I somehow in a dream move through the house and I used to I did sleep walk a little when I was a kid. I don't do it anymore, actually. But I I wonder, like looking back on that I think I might have slept walk to the bathroom, and then continue the dream continued. And then when I woke up, it was over. But so anyway, big spider, not flies, but I'm with you. Yeah,

Nicole 36:19
it was. Yeah, it was always and I mean, again, they changed it. It changed. It wasn't always flies or bugs. It was like, sometimes they were monsters. And my parents would come in as these big like hairy looking monsters, you know, with big teeth, and they'd be growling at me as they were rushing towards me to try to take care of me. Oh,

Scott Benner 36:38
my God, that's well, that's okay. So let's call that traumatic. Yeah.

Nicole 36:44
I mean, I had a, and I mean, there was a lot of incidents of that when I was little, and they obviously slowed down as I got older and things got better. And I was able to control things a little bit more. But the last time I had a seizure, I was six I was while I was 15. It was just before my 16th birthday, and I had woken up in the morning and I went into take a shower. And I hadn't bothered testing my blood sugar's yet because I was, you know, not worried about it. Anyhow, I got up I took the shower, I got out of the shower. I remember standing there in the bathroom. And when I was in high school, like lots of the kids were candy necklaces, remember candy necklaces, of course. And so my sister used to wear them to school. So she had a couple of them sitting on the counter and at that point I realized like should I think I'm low so I started eating through her candy necklace and it didn't I didn't get there fast enough. I I've passed out and see Easton. Anyway, that that one again scared me for a long time that I was really terrified about going low for night and going low early in the morning. And so oftentimes I would run my blood sugar's higher because I didn't want all that

Scott Benner 37:56
to happen. Yeah. Hey, I have to ask you the kid was wearing the candy necklace. Yeah, she used to wear them and you wouldn't add her to like a zombie to get to it. No,

Nicole 38:06
she wasn't wearing Oh in the morning so she's like taking it off to go to bed and they were just sitting on the bathroom counter heard I shared a bathroom

Scott Benner 38:14
I was had a beautiful picture in my head of you like basically be like brains and coming at her like kids like why am I friends with Nicole feel way better story? Yeah, if you want to retell it where she's wearing the necklace I mean I'm okay with it.

Nicole 38:30
I'm naked fresh out of the shower and stumbling out or going give me your necklace your necklace

Scott Benner 38:34
that's terrible. Oh my god so you had your blood sugar was bouncing then? Cuz you don't you don't you didn't have low Awan it's not like you got low a lot because you were keeping some like, like the stability at a lower number. So you were jumping up and jumping down constantly. Yeah, yeah. What kind of food did you eat back then?

Nicole 38:54
Anything and everything there was never a limitation. I mean that's not true. That's not true at all. When I was young we did we were on the My parents were allowed to give me like I was allowed to starches and two fruits and one protein at dinner say something like that. And they knew that a starch was like a piece of bread. One starch was a half a cup of potatoes they so they it was carb counting but not really. I mean we weren't looking at the numbers but we were looking at the values of food and but I was allowed to eat whatever I wanted. We were restricted in terms of quantities. And I was like I said restricted in terms of meal times at at breakfast, lunch and dinner I could eat whatever fell within those values. Outside of that I wasn't allowed to snack unless it was kind of free foods. So then I did a lot of like lots of proteins. My My mom always had like, cheese sticks or you know coming home from school we would eat Cheese or like pepper rats or you know, different smoked meat, things like that there was always like meats and cheeses that we would snack on. But that was the snack you couldn't do with crackers because crackers had carbs and carbs would mess it up.

Scott Benner 40:13
Yeah, Arden loves to. Like she hasn't done this in a while because she's in school. But there are times when she'll put together a plate looks like she's at a at a party by herself. It has grapes and cheese and crackers and pepperoni. Stuff like that. Yeah, she just disappears with it. And sure coutries. Exactly. In her bedroom. Very, very fancy. Although I don't know how fancy it is. I think the crackers are rats. But that's not right, by the way, are not easy to Bolus for when you take the crackers and then the grapes. And then add the protein and the cheese. It's a it's a task to Bolus. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, actually,

Nicole 40:50
well, at the time. I mean, we didn't really we understood the like I said the values of food, but we didn't understand how they all work together. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, even as a kid, I was allowed to eat pizza. But I don't remember how it affected me or anything. Like I

Scott Benner 41:07
actually have a recording coming up in I think it'll be out in April. It's with a big stick a health influencer, who like normally, um, I don't know, like, I don't know much about it. But a couple of listeners were like, hey, look, this lady's talking about food impacts. And she's wearing like a glucose monitor. And she doesn't have diabetes, but she's looking at the impacts of different foods and talking about about them. Now in her context. She's talking about how to eat them in certain orders where it benefits your body. But I thought, this will be interesting. Like she's got she's got this perspective. And yet, she's not that she doesn't have diabetes. So like, I'm like, I'm gonna ask her to be on so she's she's going to come on, we're going to talk about your state. Yeah, about that.

Nicole 41:52
Well, and I think, like, I don't really limit what I eat. Now, either. There's a lot of foods I just can't be bothered with, because I don't I don't know how to Bolus for them. And I don't want to find out. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah, we had a party. So I own a restaurant. We had a party there a few weeks ago, where at the end of it, they they came up to me, and you know, thanks so much for having us. And here we thought you'd like one of the cupcakes that we had made. And I was like, Oh, thank you so much. And I kind of left it on the on the counter. And when my on one of the servers came in, I said, Oh, if you want that cupcake, go ahead. I won't be eating it. He was like, Yeah, I guess it would pretty much kill you, wouldn't it? And I was like, Well, no, it won't kill me. But I'll be honest, I don't even know where to begin.

Scott Benner 42:38
might ruin the next three or four hours.

Nicole 42:41
Like, it might not kill me. But I said, Okay, for fun. Tell me how many carbohydrates are in this cupcake? And he's like, I don't know. 95? And I'm like, great. I would have maybe guessed 40. So yeah, you probably would have killed me.

Scott Benner 42:56
Well, yeah, no, I take your point. Like some of them are, it feels a little unknowable. Like, especially when someone just hands you something you have no context, like,

Nicole 43:04
here it is. Okay, and I just yeah, you're right. I think there's a lot of times, I just can't be bothered with the headache of trying to figure it out.

Scott Benner 43:10
I think interesting, too, like a cupcake is an example. It could hit. It's gonna say something that's gonna sound opposite, but it could hit less than the carbs indicate. Like, if you ever had a situation like that, where you like, look something up, and you're like, This is what is this 100 carbs for this. And, and then you later realize that it only hit like it was 50 or, or something like that. And it does happen. You know,

Nicole 43:37
it happens a lot. And so my, my partner now is a as a chef, and so he does a lot of I mean, I like a queen at home. But anyhow, he made Detroit style pizza the other day, which is that big, thick, heavy crust. And it was so delicious. But I looked at it and I was like, Oh my God, I don't even know where to start. So I Bolus for it. And I had such a beautiful straight line. And I was so proud and so happy. And I went in. I have a good friend of mine who's a type one. And so I was telling them the story and his girlfriend said, well, for curiosity sake. You know, how much did you Bolus so they said, Well, I looked at it. I thought it was probably 40 grams. I was

Scott Benner 44:21
gonna say 40 for a piece of square right? About 65

Nicole 44:27
and 40 was just beautiful and perfect. Nice. I said usually when I eat pizza I'm I Bolus for about 25 grams of carbs per slice. And she said that's so funny because the the guy the her partner, he he generally Bolus is 40 grams of carbs per slice. And then I laughed. I said, I wonder which one of us is right, because we're both Oh, which one of us is right in terms of the number. One of us is right in terms of our car in terms of our ratios? Which one of us has got it here?

Scott Benner 44:58
Well, that's such a sale. The end point really Nicole, because what's right is

Nicole 45:03
what works? Well, exactly. Yeah. And if both of us are hitting straight lines, then does it matter?

Scott Benner 45:10
Not at all. Literally not at all. Oh, so yeah, it's exciting to hear somebody talking about that way. Because it because for the people listening, it doesn't matter. If if this thing, whatever you're eating is 10 carbs, but it hits you like it's 15. And it hits somebody else. Like it's eight and it hits somebody else. Like it's 20 Well, then that's what it is. Right? You know, and, and fighting reality by pointing at a number is, I think part of how people make themselves cuckoo with all this. Right? Yeah. So all right, anyway,

Nicole 45:43
yeah, I had, I had an appointment last week with a new nurse. So I went on the new Medtronic pump about a year ago. So it's got it's the full closed loop with the CGM and everything. They're all connected. The Medtronic 770. So and then the nurse that I was meeting with left the practice, and they never reassigned me to another one. So I went a long time without seeing anybody, and they call me and they said, Oh, we've got a Medtronic rep in did you want to come in and meet with us? And I said, Yeah, sure. That'd be great, actually. So I went, I went in and met with them. And at one point, she, she was looking at something I forget what she was what she was pointing out, and she said, your you know, your numbers are great. Your time and range is fabulous. If you're striving for perfection, here's where I would maybe adjust it. And I said, Yeah, I get it. And her and I got into a bit of an argument. Oh, that's what it was over. I said, sometimes for dinner, I might not Bolus, the right amount. Like let's say I look at food. And I think, oh, this could be between 30 and 35 grams of carbs. I think I'll Bolus 30 today because I don't want to go low later. And she was like, that's, that's not the right way to do it. You Bolus for what is in it? I was like, Well, yeah, that's fine and good. But sometimes I don't want to go low later. And she said to me, she's like, your, all of your problems are purely psychological. You're I mean, you could be you could be wonderful. If if you stop letting your brain make the decisions. You know what I mean? Is that

Scott Benner 47:15
because you don't get it? Yeah. Is that because you don't actually get low later, you just are afraid you're going to? Yeah, yeah, from when you were younger? You should, you should have told her listen, if I get low, you're gonna turn into the Abominable Snowman. And there's gonna be worm scary. There's gonna be worms coming out of your nose. And I just can't do that anymore. But so so you really are afraid of the insulin a little bit still?

Nicole 47:45
Very much so that I'm, I'm very, very afraid of insulin yet. But not on basic. Very, very. I'm aggressive. And I have, and I have good control. But I yeah, there's I'm still afraid of the lows. I really am. I'm afraid of. I think I'm afraid of not waking up from a low.

Scott Benner 48:04
Well, yeah, yeah. Listen, you've been talking for 45 minutes. I think people listening have checked their blood sugar or their children's blood sugar five times since you've been taught. I'll be like, let me just take a look

Nicole 48:17
at the terrifying to make

Scott Benner 48:19
sure that the worst. Want to make sure I'm not going to see a zombie Hold on a second.

Speaker 1 48:26
Well, listen, you had a specific, yeah, this specific experience, and your body obviously doesn't do well with it. But have you had that experience as an adult?

Nicole 48:38
No, never. I've never I have not hallucinated as an adult. I had one terrible low in university that I remember the room shifting. I mean, again, there are times where I still have those those kinds of broom shift blows where the floor feels like it's falling out. I had one awful experience. A few years ago, I was I always call it the my ex husband left me for left me for dead on the kitchen floor. We were I had been out. We had been out drinking and partying at a friend's place and he had left before I had and then I called him to come back and get me and in the meantime, he was turning around to come and pick me up and I ended up getting a ride home with somebody else. And he was like, fair enough very mad at me. And when we got home, I guess I so I had got home before he had and I walked in the front door and likely as a result of drinking and everything else, I think I went to take my shoes off and I passed out on the kitchen floor. And so when he got home, I was passed out and he quite literally stepped over me to go to bed and left me there. When I woke up. I probably will maybe four or five hours later, and at the time I was on the Libra so I scanned my sensor and it said I had hit the low you know how It doesn't read any more. It just says low. Yeah, I'd hit the low at the point of which we were coming home and stayed there all night long. And so yeah, I always, I mean, that was the worst one I've had recently I woke up and luckily, my purse was right next to me because we've just gotten home and I had gummy bears in there. And I swallowed a bunch of those before I managed to get up and go to the couch, but

Scott Benner 50:27
I'm gonna. I'm gonna say something crazy here. You didn't see any hallucinating at that point. No, I wasn't listening. I was just passed out. Is it possible? And this is gonna sound really crazy. But is it possible your parents actually were monsters? And you could only see them like that when your blood sugar was low? Because it hasn't happened since then. Can you please go to go to your your mom and dad? Are they alive? So? Yeah, would they would they come back together for an experiment? I'd like to get your blood sugar low. And I want to see if they're monsters right now. No, I mean, a little bit. I really do a little bit want to know.

Nicole 51:13
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember. I mean, again, I had a good relationship with both of them. So I can't imagine

Scott Benner 51:22
why. So no, I'm teasing you. I didn't mean like human monsters. I meant, like really like furry things that just

Nicole 51:32
it was the 80s hair was different back then.

Scott Benner 51:37
I don't know. They were. I don't know. I just I got this. I just hit the all sudden I was like, What if our parents are actually creatures? And this is why that's what she was saying. And I mean, the flies. Makes sense, right? Because monsters would have flies around them. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm very worried now about the one. Conspiracy theorists listening right now is like, you know, I listen to this podcast today. This lady's parents were sub humanoids. And she did.

Nicole 52:08
I'll get tracked out, you know why if all of a sudden you stopped seeing my name on the Facebook group, you know, I've been like, sound out and snap me up. Those Those spy balloons that are flying all over the world right now that that one's gonna come and hit my house in a minute. Down and suck up the alien life form that I am.

Scott Benner 52:27
I think everyone should be appreciative that I was not so ham fisted as to call them Sasquatch is because you're in Canada. I stayed. I stayed off the Canadian thing. I one thing I mentioned earlier, but that's it. Pretty much. I've been pretty good.

Nicole 52:41
Why you don't have Sasquatches in the US? I thought I think

Scott Benner 52:44
we call them Bigfoot. You call them Sasquatch? No. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's it.

Nicole 52:51
My boyfriend calls them Sam squatches his son will just oh, if he ever listens to this podcast. He'll be so upset that I said Sam squinch on here. How old is the the son is 1212 and he always says that he'll go oh, I think we found a Sasquatch. I think we're gonna go to Sam square and Trenton saying it by mistake. Now he does it on purpose just to torment him.

Scott Benner 53:15
Oh, Trailer Park Boys, right. Yeah, I got I got it. I got it. Okay. Yeah. Well, he won't be upset about that. He's not like we call that his name. And like,

Nicole 53:26
he doesn't want to listen to a podcast about diabetes. I don't

Scott Benner 53:29
think he I don't think so. You don't think that's what's five year olds or

Nicole 53:34
year old? A 12 year old boy with literally no experience and except for mine.

Scott Benner 53:38
So we're I feel like we're dancing around something. You have an ex husband? Who left you on the floor? Left me on the floor? Is this not a great experience being married?

Nicole 53:49
No, no, it wasn't a good one. There was a there was a few incidents of you know, kind of emotional abuse like that. I would have called that emotional abuse. Because I think when you do that to somebody, it just I realized that at that point that you know that it wasn't going to be fixed. The marriage was long gone. Yeah. Anyhow, yeah, we separated actually just before COVID. Just before we went into our first lockdown here in Ontario,

Scott Benner 54:15
did you like say to yourself, oh, I can't be in here together. Let's do it now.

Nicole 54:20
No, I really, I didn't believe that COVID was a thing. I really thought that people were being ridiculous. And, and I couldn't I remember somebody saying it to me one time, like, have you heard of this virus that's about to come in and shut down the whole world. And I laughed, and I went, Oh, you're so full of it. There's no way of viruses coming in and shutting down the world. Are you insane? Like that doesn't make any sense. And yeah, two weeks later, then boom, I but I really didn't believe that it was a problem. And even when the government told us we had to close our doors, like I said, I'm a restaurant owner. So we had to close the doors and we weren't allowed to have people in and for the first couple of weeks, I just thought it was all a bunch of hot like whatever. on earth are we doing? Why are we so afraid of this? It just, to me, it just seemed wild. But

Scott Benner 55:05
there have been three pandemics since the 1900. Right? Yeah, right. This happens all the time. You just right. Yeah. I know. I

Nicole 55:15
understand. Trust me, it was crazy.

Scott Benner 55:18
It does sound crazy. It mean when you live your whole life, and it hasn't happened. And it's just a story, like, you know, well,

Nicole 55:25
and when you have something like diabetes, and your parents become monsters, when you hallucinate, and yet, you can recover and rebound from that and go on to live a normal life, then why on earth are we so afraid of a coal you

Scott Benner 55:39
feel? You? I think just Yeah. Well, did you have you gotten COVID? Yeah, I had to change your mind if you had it. Yeah.

Nicole 55:50
I said afterwards. I'm like, Man, I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

Scott Benner 55:54
I did not enjoy my my one time I've had COVID at all. That was

Nicole 55:57
we were very careful. My partner has a daughter with disabilities. Actually, she has a different form of diabetes called diabetes. insipidus, which is so like, our bodies can't process the sugars and hers can't process sodium. But so we were very, very careful about what we were doing, you know, exposing anybody to any of that we were very close with, you know, wear our masks diligently and we were, you know, hand sanitizing like crazy. So, but I ended up catching it. I had no idea from where but yeah, it was miserable. no fun at all.

Scott Benner 56:28
May I took a sidebar here. diabetes. insipidus. In Sydney is a disorder of salt and water metabolism marked by intense thirst and heavy urination occurs when the body can't regulate how it handles fluid condition is caused by a hormonal abnormality and isn't related to diabetes. In addition to extreme for thirst, and heavy urination. Other symptoms may include getting up at night to urinate or Bedwetting, depending on the form of disorder treatments might include hormonal therapy, low salt diet or drinking more water. Very rare. 20,000 cases in the US per year. Wow,

Nicole 57:04
very, very rare. Yeah. So I'm very different so that it's not like, so she's regulated through fluids. And she does take an oral medication as well.

Scott Benner 57:17
And your partner only hangs out with people who have the word diabetes somehow involved.

Nicole 57:21
Yeah, he's he says that he's like, Oh, God, my diabetics, I can't even believe that I found another one. Just a different form.

Scott Benner 57:29
I mean, it's, it's interesting that it's called diabetes insipidus. And yet, it has nothing to do with diabetes.

Nicole 57:36
Well, so it's funny, I joined also a Facebook group for diabetes and separatists. And they are also outraged by the fact that they're called diabetics, because they don't they feel like that they're immediately assumed to have mellitus. And there, they want to rename diabetes and separatists to I forget what it is some sort of deficiency, instead, like the hormone that that they're deficient in, as opposed to being called

Scott Benner 58:06
everybody wants to rename something. You got what you think the Hashimotos people are excited, right? What's wrong with you? I have Hashimotos disease, right? Great. Like a guy named Smith couldn't figure that out to be him. But listen, I like I'm gonna pull one ad here for a minute, because I feel like you can substantiate my my thoughts that working in a restaurant is an orgy of alcohol and sex and the battery that happens after the place closes. Am I right? Yeah, I am. Right, right. Yes, yes. I knew it. People come on here and lie all the time about it, but I know. Okay, so what is it? Is it the schedule? Or does it attract a certain person?

Nicole 58:58
Yet, you have to be a certain kind of want to work in the restaurant industry. And we're all a very strange breed of people. But I think gluttons for punishment, for the most part, it is a incredibly hard job is physically demanding, generally long hours long days. And yet, I mean, we work when everybody else is off. So you don't go to a restaurant, generally, between nine and five. I mean, yeah, you might go out for lunch here and there. But usually it's the night times in the evenings and we work late hours, and I'm off today, like my Mondays and Tuesdays are my days off. I haven't seen a weekend, a real weekend in many, many years.

Scott Benner 59:36
And cocaine flows like water.

Nicole 59:37
Am I right? Well, yeah, so not in my restaurant? Of

Scott Benner 59:41
course not. Not yours. No, behind my back, right. Yeah,

Nicole 59:45
I always say that. I'm like, you know, if the restaurant industry has taught me anything, it's that there's a lot of people do cocaine and a lot of people cheat on their partners. Like there's a lot of adultery and there's a lot of cocaine. Just in general in the world, but

Scott Benner 1:00:01
no, well, yeah, there's

Nicole 1:00:02
way more than you thought in restaurants, of course.

Scott Benner 1:00:05
But yeah, I knew it see people because they got the thing going, right. You get to go to work, make money, you eat for free, and you get to have sex and drugs, and nobody knows about it.

Nicole 1:00:17
Right? It's totally normal. It's very, very normal. I used to work with a girl who said she bumped cocaine for breakfast, lunch and dinner. She didn't eat she said she was real thin when she first came to the industry, because that's all she did was cocaine.

Scott Benner 1:00:33
Did you hear when I interviewed the one girl and I asked her what her diet was like, and she said cocaine and and what what alcoholic she say? I can't think tequila she said. I said what's your what's your what's your diet like? And she says, like cocaine and tequila. She was not joking. And I was like, oh. So anyway, so when I'm what? I don't know. I feel so vindicated right now the call? I don't know.

Nicole 1:01:03
Well, then I'm glad I came on to do my job.

Scott Benner 1:01:06
Yeah, no, you really came through for me. This is lovely. I know two people who are chefs. And they're both out of their minds. Yeah.

Nicole 1:01:15
Yeah. Really, the hospitality industry is full of really crazy people. I mean, a lot of people get into it to start because it's good quick money. And you know, lots of people take up serving jobs or jobs when they're in high school and, and putting themselves through college or university but the the lifers the people that stay in the industry for life. Were were a special breed. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:36
Not not like you worked at a diner in 11th grade for a summer or something like that.

Nicole 1:01:40
Yeah, no, no, we're talking the Yeah, the people that do it

Scott Benner 1:01:43
for for life, so then they Adderall must be huge to

Nicole 1:01:46
again, maybe not not so much in my experience, but I again, like I said, I really stayed out of the drug scene. So yeah, I know that I've been around a lot of people that have but I it just was never anything that was tempting.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
No drugs for you. But you. You drink like it's a profession. Yeah, yeah, I still do. I

Nicole 1:02:03
drink a lot of alcohol. But I think I, again, I kind of attribute the drug fear back to the hallucinating as a kid. So I was never interested in dabbling. I mean, my ex husband loved mushrooms. And he was like, you know, it'd be so fun if we could get high on mushrooms together. And I always said, No, I don't. Why on earth would I want to hallucinate on purpose? I mean, I did it so often, when I was little that, I just can't imagine that it would be a pleasant experience.

Scott Benner 1:02:30
Yeah, I I'm starting to believe that. It's a very small number of people who aren't doing something altering seriously. And not not a judgement, by the way, just to just I'm starting to think that it's a thing we keep quieter than people give us credit for keeping quiet. It's just, you know, very, very interesting. Would you consider like your consumption of alcohol is it is as grand as it was in college or no, now?

Nicole 1:03:00
I Yep. Yeah, it is. So in a bit in a different way. So I, I drink every day, I come home from work and have a glass of wine or two, or a bottle every day.

Scott Benner 1:03:15
Sometimes I fill the bathtub, and I get in with a straw. And I know my bath is over when the wine is gone.

Nicole 1:03:25
But that said when I was in university, like my consumption was a lot but it was a lot, you know, at a time and I would I could get faced and blackout drunk and I wouldn't even think about it. That was that was my level of intoxication that those days don't happen anymore. It's not like I'm stumbling around the living room at night. Singing into my wineglass. You know what I mean? I enjoy

Scott Benner 1:03:48
sweet care. Can anyone hear this?

Nicole 1:03:51
I mean, don't get me wrong. If any of my friends listen to this episode. They're like, we've seen that version of you. And yeah, she does still exist. Don't pretend like you're all high and uppity and you know,

Scott Benner 1:04:02
but not grown that not an angry not angry when you're drunk though.

Nicole 1:04:07
No, not anymore.

Scott Benner 1:04:08
Not anymore.

Nicole 1:04:09
Well, maybe more of you trucks husband. I definitely was but no, not I generally don't get angry.

Scott Benner 1:04:15
Nicole, I think it's incumbent upon me to ask you if you've considered therapy.

I am in therapy. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. For sure. Of course. What Scott, you don't understand? I'm way better.

Nicole 1:04:33
No, no, no, there's definitely a therapist there.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
And so when you're talking to the therapist, you said earlier you couldn't pinpoint what happened. But do you just not want to share it with me and you know what it is? Or do you really not know? It's okay, if you really

Nicole 1:04:45
don't know, I really don't know what happened. Like and I've said that a couple of weeks ago to my partner I was like, I don't know whether they're, you know, I'm I really do believe that I live a life that points towards trauma of some kind, but I really don't know what it is Yeah, I mean, there's a lot there. There's a lot that I am angry and resentful for. But I think a lot of it happened kind of older. And while I was already an adult, my dad pieced out at 18. He was done with me at that point, we had a big falling out and, and then that was the end of my relationship with him. So we reconnected a couple of years ago. It's certainly not the relationship that a father and daughter should have. But again, I was 18 when it happened. So I think, you know, there's different forms, but I can't I can't figure out what happened when I was little little that would have pointed towards it.

Scott Benner 1:05:41
So I mean, is it as simple like, is it what they call daddy issues? Did you feel abandoned?

Nicole 1:05:46
Oh, I mean, I said yes. As a young adult and up until, yeah, I'll definitely definitely I had a good relationship with my dad. It was a really hurtful thing for him to leave. Yeah, it did. It made me really upset for many years.

Scott Benner 1:06:00
Well, I mean, I think that's what you're mad about my call? Yeah, maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. Was your mom called to live with? Like, did you feel like you got left with the wrong person?

Nicole 1:06:13
No, no, not at all. Just my mom was always the caregiver. I mean, I remember my like I said, my mom was always the one at home when we were little and not. She was clearly the the better parent, she was the one that was she was clearly they definitely did not want to end up in my dad

Scott Benner 1:06:35
call. Are you letting us hear like 20% of your personality?

Nicole 1:06:43
Yes, I was gonna censor myself on this podcast. There's probably a bunch that could come out if we had more time. Maybe I should pour a glass of wine now and then you'll really see the true meat.

Scott Benner 1:06:54
Does your father work in the restaurant? No, Cody. Yeah,

Nicole 1:07:00
yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 1:07:02
I'm getting it. I'm getting out. Okay. You know, I was thinking recently, if I shouldn't do a couple of episodes with people who are drunk Endor high. Like, like, tell them like you have to be altered to do the episode.

Nicole 1:07:18
I'm not gonna lie when I was getting ready to do this. And remember, I said at the beginning, I'm feeling a little nervous. The thought of having a glass of wine before we sat down and really did cross my mind. It's a little early in the day for that. And I didn't want to be shit faced by the time the kids come home from school.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
Can I ask an insensitive question? Yes. Do you think you're an alcoholic? Oh, yes. 100%. Okay. And are you in treatment for that? No, no.

Nicole 1:07:45
Okay. Well, I own a restaurant. I don't know if you caught that part.

Scott Benner 1:07:49
So are you trying to tell me that? This is a common place situation in your world? Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So, we're trying to are we trying to build the picture here that certain, I do agree that certain kinds of people go into certain kinds of industries, they they're drawn to them for, like, you know, for probably obvious reasons that we're not going to sit here and break down. So you're in that industry to begin with? I mean, because you went right away to college. And I don't know if you realize it, because it's so normal to me, you're like, I'm gonna go to college, and I'm gonna drink a lot. Like that was the plan. There are people who don't do that. But you you wouldn't think that you would think that. Everyone does that. Right?

Nicole 1:08:30
It's funny, because, again, I've heard when you talk, because you're not a drinker at all.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
No, you've had more. You've had more alcohol. You've had more alcohol. I would say this weekend, I've had my Yeah.

Nicole 1:08:44
Right. And that to me, just is is like, I don't understand it. Yeah, alcohol was, I guess, I suppose probably pretty prevalent my whole life. It was very common for my dad to drink. It was very even, you know, common for my mom to drink, not excessively for either of them. But alcohol was always around. Yeah. family functions when we were young, always there. Like I said, my dad hadn't been around for many years. And then when we finally reconnected, he and my sister and I sat down for dinner. And he's like, I just kind of want to get this all out of the way. He didn't really he wasn't very close with his family, either growing up, abandoned by his parents at a pretty young age. And he, so he didn't, I mean, I remember his mother as a kid, but not not being close with her or anything. So I guess he joined one of those like ancestry.com, or whatever they are, where you find out who all of your relatives are based on the DNA test. And so he discovered that his father had actually fathered up lots of children all over the country. Oh, and was all of a sudden exposed to all of these relatives. And he said, at that point, he goes, I've learned a lot about our family and our family history. I need you to understand our side of the family will die from self inflicted wounds. So alcohol addiction, cigarettes, drug addictions, things like that, that either will deteriorate your body or will, you know, outright kill you. That's, that's how we die. That's how this side of the family goes.

Scott Benner 1:10:21
Nicole, can I say something? Yes, we remember earlier, like an hour ago, when we were talking about how your doctor set up expectations for you and you follow them. Don't let that happen with this. There's no way people die. That's not true. There's there's things that people teach each other. And people have tendencies, but you can go against your tendencies. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Don't let somebody tell you that this is what happens. We have heart attacks in our 40s. Or we're all drunk or we're all this. It doesn't need to be that way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm not judging you. You can jump in with both feet if you want to. And it's cool with me. I honestly don't care what anybody does. I really, you know, I say that around eating with diabetes. And I wonder if people recognize I mean that for everything. Do not care what you do. It's fine. And I don't mean that, like, go ahead, do the wrong thing. I don't care. I mean, I think living let live I think, I think that everyone has a story that you don't know, and that everyone has things that they need, want desire, lean on, etc. And you can't judge them. And nobody, you know, you wouldn't want anybody judging you with the weird thing. You don't I mean, like, I'm sure right now, there's someone listening. It goes, this girl drinks too much. That person is probably selling pictures of their feet on the internet. So like, don't judge me, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's a by the way, I saw this boy. You know, those videos. There was that video, this one kid used to run up to people in like, $300,000 cars and be like, Oh, my God, I love your car. What do you do for a living? He was trying to get out. Right? You know, somebody came along and made these other videos. That was that where the guy is like, How much money do you have in your savings account? Something like that. And he goes up to this one kid. And I just want to say, I'm not judging him. But I didn't look at this kid and think this kid is a mover and a shaker. Like I you know, like he was, he was, slovenly, would be a way I would put it. I think he he maybe could have done a set up. He was uncapped. Anyway, if Sasquatch was a person, like he could play him in a movie, and the guy's like, How much money do you have in your savings account? And it's just something like $90,000 which I'm not gonna lie shocked me. And I was like, Huh, why? And he says, What do you do for a living? And this kid goes, I saw pictures of my feet on the internet.

Nicole 1:12:44
Oh my god.

Scott Benner 1:12:45
I was like, I am trying way too. I'm trying

Nicole 1:12:51
to say it like I think we're doing this wrong. You know, I worked really really hard for really not a lot of money.

Scott Benner 1:12:58
barely enough to buy wine.

Nicole 1:13:01
For my wife

Scott Benner 1:13:03
took the wine bill out would you own a summer house somewhere?

Nicole 1:13:08
Oh, I probably could buy now. Probably could I'm not gonna lie.

Scott Benner 1:13:13
Sweetheart. I gotta ask you a question. Where in Ontario are you? Are you more in like the Toronto we part of you more in the lake? Manitoba part?

Nicole 1:13:21
No, I'm more so our outside of Toronto. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:13:25
Trying to truck Toronto. Trying to get you to Toronto? Well, I love the Toronto. I tried to explain to my wife one day I'm like, so many Canadians put the like an hour before the show, and they don't read their Trump dough. And she's like, that's not how you say it. I wish you guys knew how my wife's personality of mine are not the same. So I'm like, I'm not saying that. That's how you say it. I'm saying that's how they say it. And she's like, that's not how you say it. I'm like, Oh my God. We're caught in a circle here.

Nicole 1:13:54
Like it's just a friend of mine used to laugh at me. She was from the from New York. And I said something one time she goes, Oh my God, you're so Canadian. I said, What are you talking about? It's just like, you just had a boot. And I said, What are you? What do you mean? I don't say a boo. None of us say we're not going to boot. That's not how we talk. She goes it is how you talk. Again, and really so yeah, we just say a boo.

Scott Benner 1:14:19
Nicole, I don't know. I can't judge you. I honestly, if I were to say water. I'd be like, why is that? Why is my mouth doing that? So I can't make fun of you. You say a boot if you want to. You know it's interesting. I've been sharing this with a lot of people. I've been making the after darks lately. I gotta tell you a secret. I hate that they're called after dark. Why is that? I don't think there's anything wrong with this conversation.

Nicole 1:14:49
Well, it's funny you say that because I've had I've told a few people that I was that I had this call scheduled with you today and that it was going to be an after dark episode and they go well, why is it Hold that. And I've said, Well, I think generally it's not, you know, children appropriate and because there's so many kids that listen to your podcast, that maybe that's why, and but I had a few people say that like, what are you going to talk about that you wouldn't say in front of a child? And that's so inappropriate? That's so wildly inappropriate?

Scott Benner 1:15:20
No, tell them I agree. Yeah, no, I've

Nicole 1:15:22
had a few people say, I don't understand the after dark thing that

Scott Benner 1:15:26
I don't either. It's because I think I'm doing it for like, the one person who will look up from their Bible while they're listening to this and send me a note that says, you know, you can't I wish you'd flagged it differently. Yeah. And you can't you can't you can't let somebody talk about drinking like this and not let me know that's going to happen. Right? And I don't find personally, there's two people here talking to you at the moment. There's the bonds. No, I'm just kidding. There's the person that makes the podcast, and the person I am if this wasn't what I did, and the person I am doesn't want them to be called anything. The person who makes the podcast knows that if I don't call them something, then people will complain to me. And I

Nicole 1:16:14
do but do people. Yeah. Yeah. Are you really Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:16:19
get complaints about them. So not a lot. But enough that, you know, I get yelled at sometimes. Because, like, I mean, honestly, you say that you will, you're not going to hear a lot of podcasts seriously talk about drinking the way we did, and yet be so jovial about it at the same time, but But it's, but it's not a comedy thing, where we're just like, ignoring the fact that you shouldn't be drinking that much wine. Like, you know, it's interesting, too. You know it right?

Nicole 1:16:49
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, it's, for a long time, I tried to convince myself that that wasn't, you know, the person I was because I don't have mine at breakfast. And because I don't, you know, I don't have to drink every second of every day. I'm definitely not an alcoholic. But no, I also recognize that like, when you're when your mind immediately thinks of alcohol as the solution for stress or fear nerves, then yeah, your your brain is, is geared for something different. And I'm not saying that, you know, it can't be helped or fixed.

Scott Benner 1:17:24
Does it feel like if you had a food thing, like if every time you got upset you ate? Or if every time you felt stressed, you ate you would see this as the same thing?

Nicole 1:17:33
Yeah, I mean, I even think about, like smokers. And you know, how many times people that smoke cigarettes would say, you know, if I get stressed out at work, they go, Well, do you want to go and have a cigarette? Oh, no, I don't actually I don't want to smoke.

Scott Benner 1:17:48
I would like a big gulp of

Nicole 1:17:53
glass of wine, that would be my solution right

Scott Benner 1:17:54
now. But I'm gonna say something that I don't know if people think about all the time. Society is tenuous. And it's being held together a little bit with, you know, duct tape and spit just a little. And if you took away cigarettes, and alcohol, and a number of other drugs from society, I think in about a week and a half, we'd be in the streets stabbing each other with whatever we could find. And so, yeah, and there are plenty of people like I'm going to tell you right now, everything you've explained to me about, about your desire to drink, I understand what you're saying. I have literally no personal context for it at all. I can't as a person, like as a as just an individual. I do not know what you're talking about. I don't understand that life gets hard and you want to drink. I don't I don't I don't. I just I'm lucky that I don't feel that way. And I think I'm very aware of that. But I get it. I like intellectually, I understand everything you're saying. And yeah, I don't judge it at all. Like, but I really think it's just the case. You know, I think some people, they're, they're wired one way and some people are wired another way. And it doesn't make say

Nicole 1:19:06
like, I have an addictive personality or I have you know, addictive tendencies. I do believe that people can, can be that way. I can start my day without a cup of coffee. I need the coffee. I if I don't have the coffee, I'll be very sick without the coffee. I'm just as addicted to coffee as I am no alcohol. I have to tell you, it's a little bit more socially acceptable. In my mind,

Scott Benner 1:19:27
I have people are gonna laugh at me. I have the same arguments in my mind about little weird things all the time. For instance, almost three times a week, I think, shouldn't I just drink a cup of coffee to see what it's like?

Speaker 1 1:19:42
But right like, shouldn't I just go get coffee and try it? And I think yeah, I should. I should just go try that. And then I never do. Or someone gave us the edibles once as a gift. And they sat in the house so long that they got hard went bad and we have to throw them away. Right? But what we were like We should try these. And everyone is like, yeah. And then it just never happened. Never got there. It doesn't make any sense. Like I, I am so understanding of like, weed culture, that if I were to get a vape pen, I know which one I would get, like, I've looked into it that much, I will never, I will never do it.

Scott Benner 1:20:21
And I don't know why. Like, I am almost as conflicted about it as you are. Except for when I stop and think about what the like when I think about weed as an example, I think about like pain, like my back or something like that. And I think well, if that would help with that, then I would, I would be very interested in that because I don't listen, if you are a person listening right now. And you somehow see a difference between going to a doctor and getting a compound through a pharmacy. And you know, a guy in a restaurant taking a bump of cocaine to get through a thing. Like, I think you're being a little like, puritanical. If you're thinking about that it's all the same thing. It's just coming through different directions. Yeah, and so I have no feeling that like, oh, I shouldn't try that. I should probably, but then I just don't. But I'm not being held back by any fear or guilt or anything. It just, it's not enough. For me. It's almost like gambling. Like to me, like, I see how it would be fun to bet on something. But then I'm like, I don't care enough to actually do it. To actually get there. Yeah, like, it's just, it's, it's just the strangest, it's weird to be me in this situation, because I am totally open to it. Like, even like the idea of like, micro dosing mushrooms. Like I hear people talking about that. And I think yeah, but that makes a lot of sense. You know, and then, like, if you were anxious, or depressed or, or anything like that, and something like that would help you. I think that's great. I, you know, I just I don't know, I could never saying could never is the wrong phrasing. i It doesn't, I'm not drawn in that direction, I think is the the honest way to say it.

Nicole 1:22:06
It's just it's not in your vocabulary. No,

Scott Benner 1:22:09
I'm drawn in the direction of my back hurting and me being okay with it. Right, but Right. But for some reason, I did make a doctor's appointment for a couple of weeks from now with an integrative medicine person. And I am going to go in and say, Look, here are the things that I'm like physically unhappy about. I would not rule out anything. Tell me what you think. What do you recommend? Yeah, because I don't, I wouldn't, you know, I hurt. I shouldn't say this out loud. Yeah, I can't say this on here. Okay. There is a drug. I can talk around it. Okay, that people use to cut weight. Yes, that a lot of it's and it's not insulin. I want to be really clear. It's yeah, okay. Yeah. And I could easily, like, take it, right. And I heard somebody talking about it. And I know that works. And I know there's no like real weird side effects from it. I was still like, Man, I probably won't do that. I'll probably just die overweight. And then. But then, but like, think about the reverse idea of it. Like there's that I have access to this tiny little thing, that if I, if I took one of them a day for a few weeks, I probably lose an amount of weight that would benefit my heart. And yet, I'm like, well, that's not what it's for. Which is ridiculous. But if I go to that doctor, and that doctor would tell me here, I'm gonna give you these pills. Take them for this many weeks, and I think you'll lose 20 pounds. I'd go okay. You would do it. Yeah, isn't it? It's very strange, right?

Nicole 1:23:52
Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It really is. It's so and it's funny. It really is funny to me. What? Yeah, what people are willing to do to their bodies.

Scott Benner 1:24:02
If someone says it's okay. What's that? Sorry if someone says it's okay.

Nicole 1:24:06
Yeah, because the doctor tells you you should. Many years ago I was I did take medication for anxiety. I had. Again, I don't know if you've talked to anybody with this. Have you ever heard of trichotillomania

Scott Benner 1:24:20
get the data here? You made that up? I know where you made that up. Don't start lying now. You've been honest. So far trick.

Nicole 1:24:30
Hello, mania.

Scott Benner 1:24:31
I found that hold on. Yeah, I'm assuming this is a website that you made. Just it's a disorder that involves recurrent irresistible urges to pull out body hair.

Nicole 1:24:43
Uh huh. So I had this again, from the time I was very young, and growing up, and I finally had enough of that and I went to a doctor and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Please help me stop. I'd like to see a psychiatrist or I'd like to see a therapist. And I don't want to do the hair pulling anymore. And he said, No, no, no, it's just an anxiety problem here. Just take this pill. And he put me on these anxiety meds. And I went on them and I went, like, and they mellowed me right out. And I felt super mellow all the time. And then after a little while, I thought, so funny. I don't feel any, any stress and any anxiety, but I also don't feel general, like happiness anymore. I just, I was so mellowed, that there was no that it eliminated the extreme highs and the extreme lows. So as much as I wanted to get rid of those lows, I've missed the highs that were coming. If that makes sense. I went off the meds. And I thought afterwards like again, it seems so it seems so normal to just yeah, here's the meds just take them. It's just these pills that can all be solved with pills. And it was and that was his solution to it and really know what I needed was to, to see a counselor to see a therapist, like there was more to it than than not, you can't just take a pill to make it all go away. I mean, you can you can and doctors love to prescribe them. But we also, you know, again, there the there has to be a certain level of responsibility that we take on ourselves. Great point.

Scott Benner 1:26:15
Ever depressed. Do you have OCD?

Nicole 1:26:19
Yes, and yes, not so much. I mean OCD a little bit, but not really the trick and the trick is like a sign of OCD. But not that aside from that that would be about it. Like again, I there's a lot of like, I don't know if I don't think it's normal. I do a lot of like counting like counting steps counting stairs. Yeah. Numbers, numbers, numbers and depressed. Yeah, depression for sure. Yeah, there's been a lot of that over the years. I have more. I don't take anything for it. Aside from wine.

Scott Benner 1:26:51
Heil. There's a summary here. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is associated with low grade inflammation, neural antibodies or neuro inflammatory autoimmune disorders. In some subsets of OCD patients, autoimmunity is likely triggered by specific bacterial, viral or parasitic agents overlapping surfaces. I mean, the hair pulling disorder which I'm not going to trick a trill till amania trichotillomania, trichotillomania, that sounds like something from the seventh day song. Do you ever eat the hair?

Nicole 1:27:28
No, no, no, never, never like that.

Scott Benner 1:27:33
Is it? Can you vibe with what I'm reading here like that? There's this as you reach for the hair. There's like this tension that builds up. And then there's a release after you pull it out. Yeah. And it makes you feel better.

Nicole 1:27:45
Yeah. See, but for for half of a second. And then it's gone. Like and then it disappears just as quickly as it was there.

Scott Benner 1:27:54
The alleviation disappears. Yeah. Correct. So it's not actually helpful.

Nicole 1:27:59
I think that's where it becomes like an obsessive disorder is where you it's this obsessive thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it, and the, like, the, the, I think that's how they describe the like, OCD is the obsessive this of it to the to the compulsion of doing it, like

Scott Benner 1:28:20
if you need the release, then and it only lasts for a split second, then you got to keep doing it to make the release again. I mean, honestly,

Nicole 1:28:26
it never ever fixes whatever's causing the anxiety in the first place.

Scott Benner 1:28:29
Yeah, I mean, even like, just transfer that idea over to smoking you brought up smoking or right you smoke the cigarette, the nicotine hits you. It gives you that pop, right, yeah. And then it lasts. It lasts a little while and then it wears off. You have another cigarette. That's the same right? It's really this idea. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right.

Nicole 1:28:48
And again, I think like same with the caffeine, same with it, many of them again, same as a lot of the medications that you can take like eventually it wears off you have to and you have to keep feeding and feeding and feeding.

Scott Benner 1:28:59
But you're lying. Is that hard drugs?

Nicole 1:29:01
No, I've never done hard drugs. Interesting. You don't know why never. I don't know why. Yeah, I just never had an intro you know, I I never had the interest like I said I never wanted the I never wanted the hallucinations like any of the hallucinogenic drugs scared me really scared me I just couldn't imagine ever putting my body through that again. And so then I like I just I think I just never dabbled with any of it it just it's not like I wasn't around it it's not like I didn't know people that did it but

Scott Benner 1:29:32
no, cuz you're around it all the time is my point.

Nicole 1:29:36
Yeah, exactly. Like it's very very prevalent. I could easily get my hands on it if I wanted to almost anything I imagine. My partner's a weed smoker I'm sitting next to at the kitchen table is is a bag of weed and rolling papers. Like if I wanted to, I could smoke a joint right now and I just I literally have no interest on

Scott Benner 1:29:53
it. Hey, this is gonna seem like a right term. But did you like the bear on Hulu? Have you haven't seen it? to restaurants.

Nicole 1:30:01
Yes and no, it was very uncomfortable for me. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:30:04
I'm dying to know why. It was.

Nicole 1:30:07
It's a very real look into the restaurant industry, which is wonderful. But it's there is a bit of like, there was a bit of discomfort in the stress and anxiety that he was going through. You know, when I get home at night, I don't generally want to think about restaurants anymore. Sure. Like, and if there are a lot of those shows like that restaurant impossible, the bear, even the Gordon Ramsay one where he goes into a Restaurant Makeover, whatever it was, those they really do they kind of make me uncomfortable.

Scott Benner 1:30:41
No, I would imagine I just yeah, you're saying it's very, it's a incredibly realistic look at it.

Nicole 1:30:46
Very, very much. So yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know. It's a really well done show. I think I think we got through maybe four or five episodes. And it was a really well done show. But yeah, it just a bit too much of a real look into what it was there was another movie recently released called boiling point. And where they follow the chef who really does reach his boiling point on a busy Friday night, and I watched that with such extreme discomfort that was over. And so many people were like, Oh, that movie was amazing. It was so good. And I was like, Oh, God, it just felt so real. So real in an uncomfortable in an uncomfortable way?

Scott Benner 1:31:28
Is the I think it just has to be that way, like a restaurant because of the the pressure and the speed and everything, or do you think it's more about the people that get attracted to doing the work and how they react in that setting?

Nicole 1:31:43
Right. Yeah, I think it's probably a bit of both. I think because you really, I mean, restaurants are like, fairly, highly unpredictable. There's a lot that, you know, sometimes the restaurant business will kind of slap you in the face in terms of volume of business volume of sales, you know, it would be lovely to think that every day I go in and deal with the exact same thing, but it's never ever like that. You're dealing with so many people and so many personalities. And it really is, you know, an intense, a highly intensive stressful job for short bursts of time. You know, you but I think at the same time, there's people that enjoy that. That stress and that

Scott Benner 1:32:27
yes, I was gonna ask you Do you like it? Yeah.

Nicole 1:32:31
Oh, yeah, I do. I do. I love it. I love the hospitality industry, like driving a wrench and doing anything else with my life. It's

Scott Benner 1:32:37
like driving a racecar. You think? Like, you're like, everything's good. We're going really fast and slow down. And now we're gonna go around a corner. We might hit something, but we didn't like is that Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. So interesting. The call you have been one of my favorite conversations so far this year. Thank you.

Nicole 1:32:51
Well, thank you. It's only February. So give it time.

Scott Benner 1:32:55
cut yourself short right away. You're like, we're only a month and a half. And I cleared No, I mean, I my first episode was with a paraplegic who rides a bicycle and has type one diabetes is pretty interesting

Nicole 1:33:06
now. Yes. Very, very interesting. I remember that episode. Was that this year?

Scott Benner 1:33:09
Yeah. It was the first episode of 2023. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Nicole 1:33:13
that was a great episode.

Scott Benner 1:33:14
Thank you. See, I really appreciate how much you listen at the end here, because we're done. Because this was terrific. There's no more you need to give. And plus, I'm assuming you have to drink. But

Nicole 1:33:26
it's now almost 1pm. So you're right.

Scott Benner 1:33:30
To be funny, but but can you just for a minute, explain to me why you've I mean, you've been the show's been on for nine years. Like this is the ninth calendar year, I'm making this podcast. Have you really been listening that long to it? 2015 2015. I started.

Nicole 1:33:48
Yeah, if not 2015. It was shortly thereafter. I think that I've listened to every episode. I really do. There's been a few recently that I haven't if they were, you know, if I didn't feel like they would be relevant to me in some way. But for the most part. Yeah. I really have been listening that long. It's amazing.

Scott Benner 1:34:05
I'm glad I thank you. I'm glad you like it. Yeah,

Nicole 1:34:10
I've been an i i You know, I know a lot of it's funny. I do have diet type one diabetics that I talk to on a pretty frequent basis, I generally recommend the podcast. So yeah, I have been listening to it for a long time.

Scott Benner 1:34:23
Thank you. Well, I'll tell you why it makes me feel good, is because you just said you watch the bear. And it made you very uncomfortable, because it showed you a part of something you didn't want to see that you already dealt. Right. But yeah, you're listening to this and not having that same reaction. So I feel good about that. You know,

Nicole 1:34:39
what I think the biggest part of it is, is that and I think this about a lot of the Facebook groups and I generally try to you know, when I see people struggling with it, I always say like, I think the biggest help that you can find for yourself is another type one to talk to. And like I said I have a few of those that I see on almost to daily basis where we can, you know, vent and grief to one another. But if you don't have that access, and I mean, social media is helpful as well. But you have to know how to filter out a lot of social media. But I think the podcast does give an opportunity to listen to people who understand who are in the same scenario, and kind of give it a sense of like community and, and normalcy. If that makes sense. Those

Scott Benner 1:35:25
do not. Um, yeah, I'm so happy to hear that. I really am. You were terrific. I really do appreciate you doing this. And thank you.

Nicole 1:35:34
I appreciate you having me. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:35:36
think we should just turn the whole podcast into like, after dark and then then we'll lose the after dark thing. Yeah,

Nicole 1:35:42
yeah. Like it can people that's just normal. Yeah, it's just normal life.

Scott Benner 1:35:46
Yeah. Well, I think Well, honestly, because I believe it is. I agree with you. I think that it's an odd thing. To say that something anything, forget it, like the people wearing black T shirts, right? It's so prevalent in the world. And yet, if you didn't ever wear a black T shirt for you to say like, oh, that's, you know, that's wrong. You know, like, so it doesn't? In my mind, it doesn't matter to me, if you're, if you're using something to get through the day, whether it's caffeine or nicotine or alcohol, or you know, something else. You can't, if you're not one of those people, you can't sit back and judge the others. I mean, a because it's just so it's so prevalent, that I don't know, when you stop thinking about it as a problem and just start seeing it as apparently a necessity.

Nicole 1:36:39
Do you think it like, you can liken it to? How many times have you spoken to a UN I don't maybe not yourself, but for for myself, and you know, there's families that come into the restaurant. And sometimes I like I said at the beginning of the show, I swear a lot like, you know, I'll drop an F bomb here and there, I was actually pretty good. I think

Scott Benner 1:37:00
today I didn't I curse more than

Nicole 1:37:03
right? So I but how many times do you swear in front of in front of a kid? And then you go oh, sorry. You know, and the parent often looks at you and goes, like, they don't hear that word at home. Like, we all swear we all do it. Why? Why do we censor it out? It happens?

Scott Benner 1:37:20
Is it the concern that? Because you said we were joking about the kid who sold the pictures of his feet? And like saying we tried too hard. But is it the concern that what if we all tried to sell pictures of our feet? And then who the hell would make money to pay for the pictures of our feet? Like, is it that feeling? Do you think like, if we were all like, if everyone was doing coke to get through the day, they would not turn into? Like, you don't I mean? Like we need a balance of people. And I think that's obvious. Like I think there needs to be all kinds of people there, obviously, are all kinds of people, and you shouldn't try to eliminate any of them, or get them to stop doing what they do. My point is that you should stop judging what they do.

Nicole 1:38:02
Well, and I was just going to say, I think we it's it's thinking that we should all stop judging, but at the same time recognizing that we all do. And I think the reason why a lot of these things go on talked about is because you never know what somebody's going to judge you for. Yeah, man. Yeah, what's that? Sorry?

Scott Benner 1:38:23
You don't want to get spun back around on you?

Nicole 1:38:25
Yeah, yeah. Nobody, nobody wants to, to be judged for for the wrong reason, or for something that they I mean, again, it's pretty open, you can be pretty open and out there with people that you assumer are going to be okay with it. But if I had a group of of churchgoers come into the restaurant after church on Sunday mornings, I probably am not going to be dropping the F bomb around them. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 1:38:51
No, yeah, nothing and nothing wrong with being respectful of other people's, like, situations to you know what he mean? Like, I'm not saying you should be like, I mean, listen, I, personally, I'm thinking of who I know, smokes a lot of weed. And I have no trouble in the world with what they do. And yet, I was somewhere with them recently. And they were doing it and it kind of imposed on everybody else. And I thought, well, that's not okay. But I would have thought the same way if they would have smoked a cigarette in that situation, or I guess if they would have I don't know, I guess if they would have done anything in that situation. That somehow could have been an imposition other people. There's a balance in there. And just, I don't know, I'm just I think what I'm saying is you have to recognize that somebody's doing any number of the things that we spoke about today is not an indication that they are deficient or broken, or anything like that. We should stop treating people that way. Right. You know what I mean? Just let everybody do what they need to do.

Nicole 1:39:49
We're all just trying to cope. Life is short.

Scott Benner 1:39:53
Yeah, that's it. All right. This was great. Nicole, you were terrific. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Hold on one second. Good time. Oh, did you? Yeah, good. Yeah. Did Oh good. Glad it didn't make you anxious nervous? Or did it make you feel like you wanted to drink while we were talking? Or did it make you feel? No, no, not at all. At all. Are you saying I'm better than your therapist? Nicole? What do you think? What are you paying that therapist is at 40. I know. Yeah, a lot of money. Why don't you send it to me and we'll just talk every week,

Nicole 1:40:25
once a week, but I don't I don't even see her once a week. So that's okay. You're off the hook for that. Alright. Thanks. Yep.

Scott Benner 1:40:41
Nicole was terrific. Was she not? Thank you so much, Nicole, for telling your story. And thank you to Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Is it really gonna be a giant truck that goes by while I'm making this good? Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Please go to Omni pod.com/juicebox to learn more. See if you're eligible for that free trial and get started with the Omni pod. That truck is so far from here and it's still loud. What the You people doing? Your cars don't need to be that loud. She's contour next.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself a contour next gen blood glucose meter. They're accurate. They're amazing. And you deserve accuracy. I deserve some peace and quiet while I'm trying to make this podcast. But you know, unlike you, I might not be able to get what I deserve. You can just go Oh, mother, dog. Are you serious? Is this how this is gonna go? Alright, I gotta go. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. Obviously, I'm guessing you don't know that word, but whatever. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget to hit the links in the show notes or juicebox podcast.com Don't forget to find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, and check out bold beginnings. My god defining diabetes the protip series, support the podcast listen to some episodes. Download it. Are you subscribed? Please listen, look what I'm going through to make you this podcast. Please tell me you're subscribed. If you're not subscribed, I swear to god

#1051 T1 After Covid

Charis was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes after covid.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1051 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show I'll be speaking with Karis and adult living with type one diabetes who was diagnosed just after getting COVID. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Were becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% off of your sheets, your towels and your comfortable clothing. Do that at cozy earth.com with the offer code juice box at checkout, you can get your diabetes supplies the same way we do it us med you can get your dex coms with my link you're on the pods with my link, you can get G voc hypo pen with my link. You can also learn more about touched by type one save 10% off your first month of therapy with better health and so much more when you use Juicebox Podcast links. Those links are in the show notes of your podcast player audio app, and at juicebox podcast.com. The diabetes Pro Tip series has been remastered it sounds fantastic. And it's right now in your audio players between Episode 1001 1026 They are not to be missed. I promise you, they will change the way you think about diabetes.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram. It's not too late to get tickets for the upcoming live show dancing for diabetes. Get your tickets now at touched by type one.org. This episode of the podcast is also sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. When you get started with ag one with my link. You'll also get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with your first order at drink ag one.com/juicebox.

Charis 2:12
Hello, my name is Karis. And I wanted to talk to you about the link between COVID and diabetes and have a background in let's see, I started out in biotech. So I have a degree in microbiology. And it gets even earlier than that became an RN for a hot minute and worked in neonatal intensive care. So I think a bond with like parents on your facebook group because of that, just because I've like seen parents grieving a ton. And yeah, that was intense and growing and getting a master's in public health and epidemiology and ended up working at the CDC and Centers for Medicare and Department of Defense and all that fancy stuff. No, I'm like,

Scott Benner 3:03
wait, hold on cash. You just you've had three lives and you're not I don't even think you've had three legs. Yeah. How old? Are you?

Charis 3:10

Okay,

Scott Benner 3:11
you've done a lot. So let's go slow. It sounds like there's a bio degree as an undergrad. Right? Micro.

Charis 3:20
Right. And then I did biotech. So I did like you worked in the industry. worked in the industry. Yeah. I actually moved to South San Francisco, which was like the biotech hub at the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:32
I remember when my wife got a job offer out there.

Charis 3:36
And yeah, that's like, like you've really made it well, like we were

Scott Benner 3:40
like nothing. The housing market kept us right where we were we're like no, thank you

Charis 3:47
really weird roommates.

Scott Benner 3:52
We were gonna move from a house to a cardboard box and somehow double our income and I was like, no waste. So we stayed here. Okay, so biotech, then somewhere nursing for

Charis 4:04
biotech, I was doing like legal cancer research. And I actually somehow by the luck of the draw got two patents out of it, and like a bunch of papers on the stuff so like, it was weird because it's like people are like, Oh my god, yeah. That was like a lifetime ago I forgot about

Scott Benner 4:23
nothing. Like nothing. Yeah, it

Charis 4:27
made it just these two clinical trials and then bumped out but that's actually really no, that's except the grand scheme of things. You know, most things fail

Scott Benner 4:36
so it's exceptional just doesn't get you a Lamborghini. That's what you're saying.

Charis 4:39
Right? It doesn't know you you the tradition is you get a $1 bill.

Scott Benner 4:46
Well, what I love lovely, thanks for your time, but you're being paid to work at the company. So that's good. So

Charis 4:54
like great memories. You have type When I do not associate myself with a lot of at all because it was completely fulminant. And so, like when I went, when I was first diagnosed, I went on all the Facebook groups, and I'm like, these people are talking about just restricting carbs and living their happy life. And I'm like, No.

Scott Benner 5:22
It wasn't working for you like that, like, no. How old were you?

Charis 5:29
It was a year

Scott Benner 5:30
and a half ago. Oh, really? Just that short of time. Okay,

Charis 5:33
that short of a time. It was a Yeah, that's a crazy story. So do you want to get to that?

Scott Benner 5:39
I asked you about I want to hear about your diagnosis. And yeah, forward from there.

Charis 5:45
Yeah. So after I changed careers a bunch and ended up, you know, working in like data science with healthcare stuff. I got COVID in March of 2020. And so that was the original strain. And have you ever had COVID? Because

Scott Benner 6:07
you got the og COVID. I just got I got the OG Yeah, I just gotta go. Oh, my friend. Yeah. Oh, did you? You got it twice. Okay, I just got for the first time. We just got COVID.

Charis 6:22
Because you're like, do you all the, you know, shots and everything but my immune systems wonky? And doesn't really, you know, we got,

Scott Benner 6:32
we got what I'm calling the Paris COVID. I don't know if that's a real thing or not. But my after, you know, I mean, gosh, when when was when was it? It was February, March 2020. Right. When everybody was sort of like, February, it was like you guys here, the people in China are sick. Like it was like that. And then, and then suddenly, we were in Florida, for my son's baseball tournament for his sophomore year. And so it was the beginning of the collegiate baseball season, we were in Florida for like a 10 game series. And the news was popping, but we weren't living a real life. We were like, in a hotel than on a baseball field, into a restaurant and a bar and then a hotel and like back and forth, like it went like that. But like halfway through the time, people my wife was like, this is getting serious. And yeah, and she and Arden flew home, they were gonna go home earlier than I was gonna stay the whole week. Because I don't have a real job. I can just move my stuff out if I want to where my wife was, like, if I don't come to work, they're gonna fire me. So. So they went home. I stayed a couple more days. My son got sick while we were there, but not with COVID. He got like a hit like a bronchial thing in his chest. And he had to he couldn't play the last couple of games. And everyone looked at him. Like he was like Frankenstein's monster, like, Oh, totally. Oh, my God, this easy. As everybody starts paying attention in the news stories are picking up and he's, like, sick. And they're like, that kid is patient zero, like so he, it was hard. You know, meanwhile, he didn't have COVID, which was anyway just was bad timing. Right? So we get home. And it's funny. It's funny that we're talking about this today. Because I'll tell you why. Because we get home. And we're lucky enough that my job exists in the house anyway. Right? The kids kids went into that thing where they went to school from home, which was not good. As far as how well it worked. And my wife was able to work from home. But now it's, I mean, is it almost three years later, right? It's December. Now. It were a couple of months shy of three years since then. And I was just downstairs half an hour ago ranting to my family. I'm like, You need to go back to the office because my wife still working from home. And I was like, no, no, no. Beyond that, like, no one has a schedule. Like, right, like, it's just like, everybody, like I can do my job whenever. So last night, at one o'clock in the morning, I was editing a podcast, because I had to go pick something up in the afternoon. I was like, well, I'll go do that instead. But time has lost meaning in Oh, yeah. And it's thrown everyone sleep schedule off. Yeah, totally. Yes. The problem is that no, and then like, good. Oh, go ahead, man.

Charis 9:29
Learning to interact with people you like if you stay at home a lot. Go to the grocery store. And you're like, I'm going to talk this person 00 My

Scott Benner 9:40
God, you look like you're not crazy. Do you want to hear about what I saw today on television? You're like, Well, I mean, I'm lucky I get to keep talking to people. But what I'm telling you the biggest problem that's come from all this is that we are not rising and falling with the sun anymore, and that somebody doesn't have time to be somewhere and a time to be somewhere again, like that's incredibly important. A schedule. Anyway, I was downstairs, I was like, everyone's going to bed at this time you're getting up at this time. I don't care if you don't have anything to do, like, like, you know, like, because my son's looking for work. So he can do that. Right. And my daughter's home for a break. So and I said to her, I was like, think about it, you were just a college for 10 weeks. And you felt great. And you were doing great. And now you're like, all beat up and everything I was like, because you're staying up till three in the morning talking to your friends, and then sleep until one o'clock in the afternoon or something. I was like, it's it's messing you up. It's like everyone's going to sleep when the sun goes down. We're gonna be farmers, dammit. So you gotta

Charis 10:40
you gotta be a farmer mentality. You just have to, are you going to

Scott Benner 10:44
curse? I'm not kidding. I'm like, I spent the a couple minutes before I go home with you are looking for sleep experts that have on the podcast to talk to, like I really, oh, I've

Charis 10:53
read a book. There's like a guy that has the best book ever. And it's, oh my god, like 500 pages, but it's really good. I'll send it to you. When I remember his name. Thank you have to look it up. But it's really great. I mean, it's like, having a schedule and you know, really sticking with it, not changing it on the weekends. We're guilty of that. On the weekends, and then I mess it all up.

Scott Benner 11:19
Listen, I imagine like it's okay for once in a while for that to happen. But like, it's just, it can't be good. And I think it's common sense. I don't think I need a sleep expert. I think I just said it, like go to sleep at 1011 o'clock and wake up at seven or eight o'clock in the morning. And let's go. I dissolve a scoop of ag one into a cold glass of water every morning and drink it down. And here's why. Ag one is a foundational nutrition supplement. It provides nutrition replenishment, gut optimization, stress management, and immune support to my body. And unlike plans that include multiple vitamins and gummies, and powders, this is all just in one convenient scoop. One convenient scoop of bio available ingredients that my ag one is tested for over 950 contaminants. And it's NSF Certified for Sport recommended by doctors like neuroscientist Andrew Huberman. And people who aren't neuroscientists like me, when you use my link, drink ag one.com/juice box, you get five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D with your first order. So if you're tired of supplementing your energy with caffeine, or tired of standing in that I'll walk in at all those powders wondering which one of these is right. You can do what I did. And drink a G one. Drink ag one.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. mean so

Charis 12:45
anyway, yeah, you don't actually set your iPhone should remind you to do that. I do that. It's like you need to go to bed. You need to start winding down and I'm like no, not gonna let you tell me what to do. Oh, wait actually told me to do that.

Scott Benner 13:02
winding down. Shut up. Listen, I don't think it's not that hard. We've all lost the basics here. start winding down used to be let's have sex and go to sleep.

Charis 13:16
Yeah, and after COVID It's just like, anyway,

Scott Benner 13:21
back to COVID. So we were all like, look at us. We haven't. We've never had we've never had COVID Right. And you know, my wife, my wife has a business thing come up. And she's like, you know, I have to go to France for a week and we were like, Alright, we'll see you. And you know, she comes home Arden still at school. So it's just cold i in the house. She comes home. She had a great time, got worked on met some met some people that she's been working with for years. She's never met because of COVID which is very nice. A couple three days later, she's home. She's like, I don't feel good. And we were allowed. My son and I were like, Yo, get away like, you know,

Charis 13:57
your Frankenstein's monster?

Scott Benner 13:59
Yeah, now you're the monster. We shoved her right upstairs into the bedroom. And she had COVID and we stayed away from her. And we were all like, for her but

Charis 14:09
like, the rest of you? Totally what you have to do, she was gonna

Scott Benner 14:13
die to keep us sick. Say we were fine with that. Like, we were like, That's it. You're done. We took care of like sliding food under the door, you know, stuff like that. And like a prisoner. Yeah. And she wasn't doing well. So she called the doctor eventually. And they gave her this drug. And they're like, Oh, this is great. Knocks it right out. I forgot what it was called. Everyone knows. There you go. I'm telling you, like, I don't know how long it was afterwards day or two. She's like, I feel like a million bucks. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, do not come out of that room. And no one cares, stay in there. But then she she tested negative for so many days in a row that it started seeming silly to like use the tests and we're like, alright, you can come back out now. And like to days later, She's downstairs working around all of us. And she goes, I don't feel good again. Oh, no, she got the rebound. Yes, it didn't just rebound to her. He got all of us because we were around.

Charis 15:13
That's horrible. I needed to all that work. Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 15:18
Listen didn't kill me, obviously. So I'm good. But it was unpleasant. For a long time, I would tell you that. Because the three of us got sick at once. We were sick for two solid months. Because the COVID turned into bronchitis.

Charis 15:34
Exactly. You know, what attacks everything in your body like everything and messes everything. It's like, I don't even know what's gonna happen long term to the, like, burden on the health care system for all the things that it's done, you know, like,

Scott Benner 15:52
No, I mean, it was really about that. I never took COVID not seriously, I always took it as seriously as I thought I as warranted. And we were careful and did things and separated. We did everything that you know, people said to do. And there were also times during the summer like my son played baseball, like through COVID. But out, but I took seriously the idea that people were like, there's doesn't seem to be any transmission outdoors. So we were outdoors, we still all sort of stayed away from each other. The boys, of course, were in a dugout, but even they kind of spread out a little bit. And no lie like in the year 2020. Co played a full season in the summer. In a collegiate Wow. And one kid, there was like 20 teams, one kid Guy Code. And that was amazing. And then it never got through anybody. But then once it got cold, we went back inside. We were of course, like we kind of went anyway, I treated it seriously. I took it seriously. And three years later when everybody's like got nothing now like getting a cold. I'm like, yeah, not in France, apparently. The Paris COVID was nasty. So anyway, the French you got but you got OG right away. COVID, which must have been scary as hell, right?

Charis 17:07
I got og COVID. And here's the crazy thing. So I need like, with my background, that's why I told my background. It's not to show off. It's just to be like, Okay, this is why it freaked me out so bad. Because let's see, in December of 2019, my son was like, you know, he Doom scrolls a lot. Okay, like, with this COVID thing, it's gonna be real bad. And I'm like, No, I used to work at the CDC. Totally. We got this. We got this story. And then like a month later, it was like they all started dispersing out of China and like, oh, global travel. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And I will not call it the Chinese flu that makes me so mad. Or the China virus. You know, it could have happened anywhere. Yeah. And it just so happened to be there. You know? Incidentally, no, 100% Coincidentally, like, yeah, so that's my little side thing with that. I'm sorry, what were you gonna say?

Scott Benner 18:10
No, just it might because of what my wife does for a living. She, she had been aware of it for a while. And she's like, I'm telling you like, there's a virus in China. And it's like, it's good. My wife was the first person to tell me before I heard it on the news, or anything else. She said to me and told me yeah, she told me about it. She told me what it was. And she said a year. She said at some point, she didn't say in a year. She said at some point, everyone on the planet is going to have had this virus. Yeah, that I was like, You're out of your mind. And she goes, No, this is what's gonna happen. I was like, okay,

Charis 18:44
yeah, it took me like till probably February of 2020. to, like, accept that. Because when I was working at the CDC, Ebola came out, and so I get to hear all that craziness. And, you know, and because of that, how well they handled Ebola. I was like, Oh, it'll totally be okay. It's gonna last a really long time and affect a lot of people but like, there's a whole structure in place for this, like, people like me are trained for us, we trained our whole lives for this. They didn't end up using people like me to help with it, but that's another story. So in March, I started having symptoms and it was so weird because, you know, had to be my own nurse and then I telehealth my doctor and I was like, I think I have COVID but then they were like, we're not we don't have a test you know, it's not reliable yet. And that was when they like recalled the test. And it's like, you probably have it based on your symptoms, you know, and you also have Crohn's disease so like just watch it you know, just stay at home, isolate all that and then like the master of quarantine, so I did the you know, stay in my bedroom and have food shipped on Today when I talked to my doctor, it was the craziest thing, because he's like, Harris, I don't know really much about COVID, I'm just gonna be honest, this is why I love my doctor, he's like, No, my doctor for 13 years. And he's like, you actually know more about this than me, I'm just gonna be honest with you. So what you need to do is you need to call your friends, and you need to find out what this is. And I know that you have that like, you know, investigative nature about you where you can figure this out, and then you call me and he told me what I should do. Like, because like, all the drugs right now, they're not working. And you know, we're doing things that aren't working. And so this is back, you know, in the very beginning, and I ended up contacting my friends at CDC, and I'm like, I'm positive, and they're like, Oh, shit. And I'm like, Why do you say? And then I'm, like, telling them all my symptoms, and then they're like, oh, keep going, we're writing this down, you know, and then they're like, talking till the doctors. And so I had like, my own

Scott Benner 21:16
team, you had a COVID Geek Squad.

Charis 21:20
Geek Squad. Yeah, and I could just call and be like, my arms have all these, like, purple spots on it, you know, which is like, really bad.

Scott Benner 21:31
Did you? I mean, being that early on, and, and having connections to people who you would think would have the highest level of information available? And they're telling you like, I don't know, you tell me what's happening. Like, that's not comforting, I imagined,

Charis 21:46
comforting, ya know, and then and then to be a nurse and know what the symptoms are, and be like, I can't feel my feet, like, you know, or like, my brain is not working, right. Like, this is not a normal virus like this is affecting my central nervous system. And that was before they said, you know, across, couldn't cross the blood brain barrier and all that, you know, like, we had no idea, but I was just telling them, like, what my symptoms were because I'm like, hey, you know, like, I can tell you what it's like. So I felt like a science experiment. It was funny. I don't know. It's just weird. And I got better and didn't get anybody else sick, which is great. I'm so proud of myself for that.

Scott Benner 22:29
Did they give you did it give you anything back then? Or was it just like hydrate rest? Stay away from people,

Charis 22:36
hydrate, rest? lock yourself up? You cannot come to the ER, do you not like, it was just total lockdown. Like you are on your own? You can telehealth your doctor, that's the best you can do? And I was like, yeah.

Scott Benner 22:52
No, I'm like, yeah, like, it's not fun to be the first person that have something like, like, with no answers, even by the way, you know how often we go to the doctor, and the doctor gives you an answer. And you leave and you're like, Oh, this is good. I feel like the guy with the lady and the coach told me the thing. And you're walking away and the doctor. Yeah, and the doctor is like, I don't know if that's right or not. So it's still just people. And that's

Charis 23:15
my relationship with my doctor. I mean, we have a very funny relationship, like, we joke all the time. It's, like, just awesome. He's been my biggest advocate. So yeah, and then I found out like, the whole infrastructure was falling apart, which I knew would happen anyways, because I studied abroad, in like, Barbados, and Cuba, studied their health care system and got to compare it to ours. And it was just fascinating, like, how much money we spend, and help our outcomes are and you can fact check this, you know, and look and see, like, we're 27 or something in the world by the WHO metrics, you know, like, our maternal mortality rate is horrible, you know, infant mortality rate, horrible. There's a thing that where they call it, you know, it's not health care at sick care. So, yeah, I mean, that's disheartening. But, you know, we also have incredible technology that can keep people alive for like, ever. I swear.

Scott Benner 24:21
You know, we live in a we live in a fairly quiet time in history. Well, we did. Right. So yeah, great. Your your post World War Two intil. I mean, honestly, maybe. I mean, I guess you could argue this, but 911 Maybe in that.

Charis 24:39
It was I was gonna say,

Scott Benner 24:41
post World War I was just like, Yeah, well, post world war two to 911. Everyone in America who's you know, hasn't has a job of any kind is living a life better than most people have ever lived on the planet. And even our poor you know, even our poor people are living sometimes the conditions better than what you find in other places in the world. And so, yeah, so when the 50s turn into the 60s, I mean, think about it when you think about the 50s, or like, sock hops and this kind of thing and the 60s, or like peace and love in the 70s, or like, some drugs go with this and love and,

Charis 25:17
like crazy fashion. And

Scott Benner 25:20
it's the worst thing that happened to the 80s a plane got hijacked, and, you know, oil prices went up a little bit, right. That's it. And then I mean, we started picking wars again, because we're like, this is boring, we should. You know, let's figure out what the Falkland Islands are and shoot at them, like, like you like you got like. And then the 90s are, you know, its prosperity, and everybody's making money and blah, blah, blah. And then 911 happens. So there's generations of people who think that that's what the world is fashion and music and happy and like, blah, blah, blah, and then all of a sudden, 911 smacks you in the face and you go, Oh, we are all bouncing on the head of a pin here. I don't know how we kept going like this for so long. And then then COVID happens and you realize that most of society is smoke and mirrors. And it's

Charis 26:16
so great. It's like, and it's essential, and illusion.

Scott Benner 26:20
It's easy to pretend that you know what you're doing when there's nothing to do. And then suddenly, you get tasked with something and you find out that people, you know, like, Listen, how many people do you think you work with? Who quietly in their car in the morning before they get out and come into the office think I don't know what I'm doing? Someone's gonna figure out that I don't know what I'm doing. Go in, like,

Charis 26:42
a lot had impostor syndrome, right? Like, well, it's my self. Totally Yeah, for a long time.

Scott Benner 26:49
But it's also not just a syndrome, it's that you're living in a comfortable time. Like, I mean, listening to it. Like, like, I guess I could go to ROTC as a high school student and think like, I know what to do. But if you then put me in a time machine and drop me in Vietnam, in the middle of the war, you might find out I'm not the fighting machine. You thought I was like you don't even really, like long here until until people get tested. You don't know really what they have. And I think we went a lot of generations where people were not really tested to the level that history has sometimes tested us, too. And now here we are. Oh, yeah. So anyway, that's

Charis 27:28
just like, pushed to the max. I think so. I'm surprised how well we've done actually. Because I'm an optimist.

Scott Benner 27:39
Yeah, I agree with you, too. But I'm saying that in that moment, when you were talking about, everyone was like, Oh, this isn't like, This isn't me playing a video game like this is happening? You know? Yeah. Like,

Charis 27:51
this is real. Like, it's, it's about ready to go down. Exactly. Well, and then I was working, you know, in the three letter companies, agencies. And so like, I knew what programs were getting shut down and what weren't. And I'm like, Oh, this isn't gonna work. If they shut down, say you, Sam read, for example, that's like the military version of the CDC. So that got shut down. It's now partly back up, but they're the ones that are supposed to do all the stuff in the movies where, you know, like, they come in with the National Guard. And, you know, where the Biohazard suit and all that that's not the CDC, that's you, Sam read, okay, the pandemic response team got shut down. It's no backup. But all those things, the whole infrastructure was shut down. And I'm not going to even get into politics and why. But that's what happened. And it just made the whole entire system crumble. So how it's supposed to work is the CDC is a government agency, they have to get invited into the states, they cannot just come storming in. So it's supposed to start at the county level, and then go up to the state level. And then the state goes, oh, let's call them the experts from the CDC and figure out what do we do? That didn't happen?

Scott Benner 29:11
Does it not happen? Because people don't know that it's supposed to happen? Like, it's somebody people

Charis 29:16
people knew? Absolutely, uh, specifically, this is like, I think everybody was just like in shock. And maybe there are some politics. Who knows? I don't know. I think it's just like, so overwhelming. People were like, what do we do? And like all of us epidemiologist was like, dude, talk to me. And like, I talked to a recruiting agent. And she said there was a hiring freeze for epidemiology. Which was like, I don't know, it's just, it was just like, so many series of choices that were made and it's not one person's fault. You know, it's just collectively as a society. We made some decisions that totally crumbled our or help infrastructure. And, you know, I could see the holes or the cracks on the system before. And when I talk about it, people are like, You're crazy, like, Okay. And then it happened. And they're like, how is this gonna last? Oh my God, what do you know? Maybe?

Scott Benner 30:20
Well, that was really my that was kind of my bigger point about my my long story that I told, which is that, you know, there's a running back on your team. And he's the guy, right? He's the one who gets hurt, then there's a second guy, and he gets hurt. Now suddenly, you're looking at the kid you didn't even want to have be on the team. He hasn't been tested. And now you're telling him you're starting. And I think we were in that situation like things just went along so easily for so even like some of the other big health crisis in the world, you know, that you go back over my wife was thrown at me the other day, right? I know, none of them are popping into my head. But a lot of them were offshore. Like they weren't happening here. And they were dying out over there. And you don't think of it that way?

Charis 31:04
SARS, that's the one right? Right. You don't

Scott Benner 31:07
like to think of you don't like to think that an invisible thing can just appear and start killing people. And the way that it really sometimes stops is it just kills all the people it's going to and then it kind of it then it's gone. It burns itself out. When you hear burns itself out. Your mind doesn't cognitively think of burning itself out as killing all the people that can before it dies. And like you know, like because that right, sort of what's happening.

Charis 31:34
And it's just mind boggling to think that this tiny, tiny little thing, like nanometers big can kill hundreds of millions of people. Like, that just blows my mind. And, you know, I don't want to rag on the US healthcare system at all, you know, because it happened all over the world, like everybody, like every country was like, whoa, what do we do? Yeah, sure, you know, I mean, so that was kind of a global phenomenon. But yeah, it was just weird to navigate it as a patient, you know, and then to be a patient that's also a nurse in the epidemiologists and scientists, because I'm weird. Like, I knew too much, you know, and it was really scary.

Scott Benner 32:17
I was listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson recently. And I think it was him somewhere. And he said something like, if you took a, like, a cross section of your colon, I think this is what he said, please don't hold me to any of the salient details of this. But somewhere in your digestive tract, he's like, if you just biopsied this tiny little bit, there would be more bacteria in there. I think he said, then all the people who've ever lived on the planet combined, like so.

Charis 32:45
No, I've heard them say that. Yeah. And then Shane, well, and then, like, you're not you your microbiome.

Scott Benner 32:52
Yeah. So you are basically a planet for other living things. Yeah. And, like, mess with your brain. And then you start doing the pullout, like, you think of that as the micro look, and then you start pulling out, and you realize, right, there's, there's things living on your skin that are eating like your dead skin and stuff like that. And, and yeah, then you pull back again, and you pull back again, I think the point he made was that we almost don't have the ability to pull back far enough to see our place. But then you don't mean that you're a bug on this planet. And there are bugs, you and in this planet might be a, you know, like, and he started talking about that whole big idea that that, you know, Earth could just be an atom inside of like, a bigger structure. And, and yes, technically is like, if you think about space. And so yeah, and so I started thinking about, like, somewhere inside of me, there's blood, like pooling and flowing, right? And there's, there's, there's an atom in there, if something like there's there's this, there's a cell and, and that cell can't see other cells, it's too far away from them. And even though in my measurement, that distance might be a centimeter, how far is the measurement between Earth and the Moon? If we are just floating in the blood flow of something else? And I started thinking about I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna stop totally Cartesian philosophy. Yeah, and I'm just like, that's enough of this. Right? NEIL DeGRASSE like, and

Charis 34:23
I just went down there.

Scott Benner 34:26
Like seriously, like, who where does that name come from? But that's no big deal. So so when you think about that, and then you apply that idea to like, like catastrophic illness, the you care about you? Right? I care about me my kids care about me if I die, it'll be a struggle to other people. But then you know, you get outside of my house you go to two houses down. They're not going to their life's not gonna change if I die. And I know that because two houses down some guy died. I've never met before and my life didn't change. And and so It's hard to remember that the virus doesn't know that the virus doesn't discriminate. Yeah, it's like, exactly. So anyway, yeah, scary is my point.

Charis 35:11
It's friggin scary. And I do think that people would notice if you died because, you know, you have a whole group of people

Scott Benner 35:18
whose, um, abandoned help, okay? Yeah, I'm a bad example. But you know what I mean?

Charis 35:28
cancer or whatever.

Scott Benner 35:29
There's a lady across the street, who, if she goes, she's gonna know. And I think her nephew lives with him. And then beyond that, like, she's probably all lived her friends circle and you get my point. My point is the virus doesn't care that people love you. And so you get into that situation where it's just in your own head. It's frightening. It's an invisible invader. You don't like Oh, it's terrible. So okay, but then it gets worse. After you have COVID What happens next?

Charis 35:59
So I just had all this weird things happened, like, had four toenails fall off. Like, I think I'm going to be an afterdark episode. Gonna tell you, kids are gonna be like, Oh,

Scott Benner 36:14
I after 800 episodes. That's one of the that's shocking things that anybody's ever said to me. Like I tightened up inside when you said I was like, Oh, God, no. All right. Okay, go ahead. Can I ask question on the same foot? Okay.

Charis 36:33
To like paint, it would look like.

Scott Benner 36:39
So you were painting the hard skin underneath of I don't know if anybody's ever lost the nail before. But it's kind of it's rocky under there. It's Rocky under there. Yeah. So you would paint that

Charis 36:49
I would paint it. That's how, like, how much I was trying to deny what was happening to me and have like a feeling of control. I guess. Because I felt out of control. I was like, I can't control this. Like, it's just happening. And there's nothing I can do about it. And so I have to just go through it. And it was just wild. Like, I didn't even take days off work because I work from home. So I was just like, Okay, if I lay in bed all day, I'm gonna get pneumonia, it's gonna get worse, and then I'm gonna get blood clots, it's gonna get worse. So the best thing I can do, is trying to stay active. Right? And by active I mean walking from my bedroom to my office. But you know, when you go to the hospital, the nurses are always like, you have to get up and walk and you're like, Dude, I just had surgery. Are you insane? And heartless. It's so you don't get pneumonia and blood clots. So yeah, I worked just kind of done at night. Would I think I did that because I needed to distract myself from like, impending doom. Yeah, that was wild. Just the symptoms. were crazy.

Scott Benner 38:00
How long? How long after this, though? Do you? Does Omicron come first? Or does diabetes come first?

Charis 38:08
So diabetes come. So it was OG and then about a year later diabetes, and then omachron, which completely wiped out honeymoon period. And you're gonna think I'm crazy. But you've had a guest before talk about this, where he felt like his pancreas had like pain and was being attacked. It felt like that I had pain, like epigastric pain is right there. And I had that when I got a micron. And then it was like, insulin needs totally changed. Here's another curveball. And I'd gotten five shots by them. But it didn't work for a micron. So that was funny.

Scott Benner 38:50
What's funny?

Charis 38:53
Oh, it's funny. So my diagnosis story is actually hilarious. So well, if you have the gallows sense of humor, which I do, you can't tell by now. Like how I cope with sad things, I guess. So I went to Well, first of all, my daughter was like, you know, competitive gymnast. And then all I could imagine was like, the girls on the balance beam, like, throwing snot at each other. So I was like, wow, that was a your work. And maybe like, I'll put masks on, you know, in between. And like, if you're not sanitizing the bar, you're not making everybody like now. It's just like we're done. Right? And that was really hard because she's really good. And so we got her into the whole equestrian lifestyle and bought her a pony. And my mom was like, Okay, we're going to take her, you know, he had to drive all over the freaking country to do the equestrian lifestyle. It's like the most expensive sport I did not know that my mom bought like a camper van so I could just drive around because it's got since bathroom and it's like a giant quarantine mobile right. So I called the van Demick life. What did you call it? Van Demmick. Life? Van. Van life

Scott Benner 40:25
I heard. I didn't quite at first I got it the second time. Okay, good.

Charis 40:30
Yeah, it's like funny. So like, every weekend, we were living out of the van, and one of her meats were in like, San Diego or something. And I live, you know, like, in the middle of the country, so, well, a little less. When I was driving back, I started getting really, really tired. And it was like, okay, you know, I always get tired, you know? That's right. And, you know, working yourself to death and all that and have Crohn's and that makes me tired and whatever. And then I ended up pulling into like a propane station to refill the propane tank. And I hit the little pile on concrete, whether they call or they pylons, you know, the little things that like protect you from cold, like cones, but they're concrete, concrete to protect, to protect the propane tank from people crashing into it. And then like, you know, blazing up. Yeah, and an awful mess, right. So I was pulling in and I scraped the right side of this beautiful camper. Right, like,

Scott Benner 41:46
that's van mageddon. So

Charis 41:52
that's really off. And in San Diego. I had one drink, just wondering. And I was slurring my words, like real bad, okay. And that's weird. Because like, I can handle a drink. I get home after like, it took forever to get home because I was like, Oh, I gotta stop and take a nap. Because that's the safest thing to do. And, you know, my kids are like, Cool. We'll just like go on a Wi Fi and entertain ourselves. You know? Thank God, I did that. And then I got home, and I'm cleaning out the van. And my mom calls me and she's she had been in San Diego with us. She called me she's like, I'm taking you to the hospital. And I'm like, it's just like, something's not right. It's just not right. I'm taking you like now and I'm like, Okay, well, I'm going to take a shower, because I know that when you go to the hospital, you go to bed for like days. And she's like, No, you're going right now. I was like, what? Like, I'm fine. I'm cleaning up the van and everything like this is how deeply in denial I was. Oh, and one more thing happened. This was funny. On the way back, I drove through Vegas. I drove past the Bellagio. The line was really, really long to turn. And I was like, oh my god, I have to go the bathroom really bad. And Oregon, the hazards on ran to the bathroom. In the

Scott Benner 43:21
wait, you just abandoned your van in front of the Bellagio and then ran into the hotel?

Charis 43:26
No, as the van has a bathroom. Oh,

Scott Benner 43:29
I don't know why that's funny. But okay.

Charis 43:33
It's funnier. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna say this, like, I didn't quite make it. So my kids are horrified. You know? And they're just like, What is wrong with you? So that was one of the things that made my mom go Ah, so anyhow, I get to the ER, and it was about two hours. And they were like, We don't know what's wrong with you. And then they finally started looking at glucose because that's just something that they do, you know. And, you know, they were like, if this is like some weird, man, we don't know what's going on. And finally, they looked at the glucose and it was like 655

Scott Benner 44:14
Was that on your radar at all? Having because you had Crohn's, Crohn's disease, autoimmune, right?

Charis 44:19
Friends is autoimmune and then I take a biological immunosuppressive drug. So I take that shot every eight weeks. And that just like shuts down your immune system, so you don't attack yourself, right. But

Scott Benner 44:34
anyway, so So, okay, so now you're laying there.

Charis 44:38
I'm like laying there in the ER and the doctor. It's just the kindest guy and he's just like, really puzzled, you know, just like, What is going on? I gotta fix this. They gave me an MRI of my brain because I had a headache. Because I had cerebral edema, which took three months to resolve. So I was kind of like Dory.

Scott Benner 45:03
So you think that's how you ran into the, the concrete barrier and like, why you were just off in general.

Charis 45:10
And I lost my vision. So weights part of the thing, but that didn't happen until the next day after it was admitted to the ICU. You lost your vision

Scott Benner 45:17
in the ICU. That could not have been fun. Okay, so yeah, that was

Charis 45:23
that was so not fun. So like, the, the ER doctor comes back, and he's like, he pulled his mask down. But you know, I had cerebral edema. So I could have made that up. Who knows? And he's like, Oh, my God, I am so sorry. You are becoming diabetic. And I don't think this is type two. And I'm just like, you know, they say the patients can only hear 5% of what doctors tell them. And it's really true because it just became want want want want want want. It's

Scott Benner 45:56
stunning, right? Like

Charis 46:00
he's like a UTI or something, you know, and I'm drinking a lot of water because it was driving through like, the desert. You know? We're not, you know. And

Scott Benner 46:11
do mom ever tell you in retrospect, what made her call you?

Charis 46:13
She had a feeling? Yeah. Just you didn't seem right. It's interesting. Yeah. It was the it was the one drink and I was like, like, super alcoholic. Sounding slurring, you know?

Scott Benner 46:28
Just shut you off that one drink.

Charis 46:31
Since one drink just so now. Okay,

Scott Benner 46:35
so how do you start managing diabetes? Like, like, are you in the hospital for long they send you right back out again?

Charis 46:43
Oh, no. So I go to the ICU. And they're like, the ICU because you know, we have to do IV, regular insulin, right? And I'm like, okay, cool. Can I walk? You're really sick. Like, my ANC was 13.80. Wow. That's impressive. But it's but what's even crazier was like, my labs when they looked at the whole, like, pH and carbon dioxide and all that. I mean, it was just extremely, like, you know, they show the normal zone of where you're supposed to be. And like, everything was out of whack. Yeah. And that's the first time that's ever happened to me. And it's sitting there looking at my phone going. Me, or is that like another patient? And they mixed up?

Scott Benner 47:37
Isn't it? Like, isn't it fascinating? I find it really just impressive. How out of whack. Everything can be and you're still alive. Like

Charis 47:48
seriously stole I just keep going. Yeah, amazing. You know? Yeah, didn't you have like a thing where you will forget which

Scott Benner 47:56
iron was so low at one point

Charis 47:58
iron, right? That's what it was. Like, he just kept

Scott Benner 48:01
going I just kept I kept going. I was like, it it affected my personality and my ability to rest sleep like I was a mess. But I could focus what I guarantee you that there are 5070 episodes of this podcast that I recorded with my iron, like my heart level, like 11. And like, oh, wow, so badly that if I stood up and then tried to bend down to the floor, I would have just kept going. But But I could pull it together for short bursts of time. And even like I did it during when I COVID I did it like you're gonna hear well, at this point. The way the podcast goes up six months ago, when somebody's listening to this. There's a handful of episodes of the podcast that you heard, you'll never know I was sick during. But I was I was sitting here like, either wrapped in a blanket or half naked because of my fever will never see that there's a whiteboard in front of me that I would sit down and I would just take with a marker and I would write focus on it. And then I just I just look at it while I was recording. And I don't think you'll I don't think you'll ever hear it but I was like devastatingly sick. So Oh yeah. If you hear the one of them I can point you to for sure. Is there's an episode I did along with the company for G voc. I bullpen? I was sweating during that, like I was kicking heroin. And oh man was rolling off of me in sheets. And I was just an i That's a good episode, because I listened back to it after I was sick.

Speaker 1 49:37
I was like, I can't believe I pulled that off. So anyway, so I take your point, but it's just it's interesting that you can see all these labs and they're all so far out of range and you're having all these problems. You know, the thing you talked about in your your brain you're you're experiencing symptoms there. And still, it's still you were cleaning out the van you know what I mean? Like

Charis 49:58
so I'm clean up the van I'm Do you want to die in a week or something in the van? Or it's gonna stink? You know, like,

Scott Benner 50:03
your agency's 13 Like, you were gonna go down eventually. Don't get me wrong, but like, it's, it's amazing that you could that any of us could. So I'm sorry. Yeah, it's

Charis 50:13
like there's the scene and medicine and I love it. Denial ain't a river in Egypt?

Scott Benner 50:21
Well, well, you know what else it makes me think of is it's gonna feel disjointed for a second. But have you ever been in the mall or out somewhere, and you see a kid who's got Down syndrome, but he's 40 years old, and his mother's like 90, and she's still taking care of him. And you think to yourself, like that woman is willing herself to stay alive for that kid? You don't I mean, currently? Absolutely. That is not an uncommon thing for parents of chronically ill children to stay alive a really long time. And there's got to be something to that. You don't I mean?

Charis 50:57
Oh, absolutely. I think it's just like you will yourself to go on, you know,

Scott Benner 51:04
yeah, I don't know how that happens, technically speaking, but it just seems true. I mean, honestly, my iron that low. That looks and doctors say things all the time. Like, I don't know how you're standing and everything. But my doctor. My doctor was a hematologist. And he's like, Dude, are you okay? Like, he's like, I'm like, I'm already he goes, You're not alright. But yet, I was still up in the middle of the night taking care of Arden during that. You mean, of course, because you have to. Yeah. So it's just I don't know, there's, people have a lot of we have a lot of feeling that we don't use sometimes. Yeah. And

Charis 51:39
I almost feel like it's if you're a good parent, or a decent parent, you come to the realization, maybe it takes a few years after your kids are born, but you go, Oh, it's not about me anymore. It's about them.

Scott Benner 51:54
You're a resource all of a sudden, does that mean? You're a resource? You become a resource? I mean, that like you're a resource? Yeah. Yeah. Like in the in the, you know, oil. Like, like sets, like, I mean, your your intellectual resources. Well, but, but basically, if you think about, you know, there's the mother, and then baby and the baby's, you know, it's sucking off of you getting what it needs while it's growing. And even though it comes out in the court, it doesn't stop really. Yeah. So I mean, this morning, you and I are recording at noon. 1125 Arden's like, would you make pancakes for me? I said, Well, I have to

Charis 52:35
thank you. The reason you're

Scott Benner 52:38
recording at noon, she goes, Yeah, I know. I said, alright, well, like, let's get downstairs and like hustle. And we'll do it together. And by the time she comes down, I'm almost finished, you know? And I'm like, and it's not it's not an apples to apples, but it is. It's that she's not lazy. Like me, she can make her own food. But she asked me

Charis 52:55
like, you're a good chef, right? Listen to enough of your podcast.

Scott Benner 53:01
I don't know about you. But what I think is like, I wonder how many more times I'll get the maker pancakes, like before she moves out or something like that. So I want to do it. But you don't think of it as you're giving of yourself? A little bit. No, they're killing. Yeah, real slow.

Charis 53:16
Real. Like really slow. Away pulling it from Yeah. And then they get older and you start to reclaim yourself. But yeah, it might just give us I don't know, man.

Scott Benner 53:29
They get away with just sit down and go. I just want to see how long I get last sit in this chair. I am very tired. I can tell you that much. Put any anyway. I got up last night out of bed for something. Somebody just left the light on in the hallway. And I got up. And as I'm getting up, I said to my wife, I was like I'm done with this. She goes well, I'm like being responsible for other people. I'm very close to being done with us. So yeah. Anyway. Okay, so

Charis 53:58
you must carry like a really heavy weight, though, because you care about your listeners. So imagine that that's like, I don't know, I guess the only thing I could compare it to is is like having been a nurse and feeling responsible for other people's health. And it's a really heavy burden to carry. Yeah, there was never like that for you.

Scott Benner 54:18
Yeah, it got bad a couple of years ago. And I recognized. I said to myself, basically like you I have to let go of this to some level where I won't be able to write making the podcast because the one thing that I am, I'm very careful to do is I read everyone's correspondence. And I respond. I respond to it. It's sometimes it takes me a couple of months, but I definitely I answer people. And every day, I go through the Facebook page, and my message is for people who are sharing their successes with me or asking questions, because that seems like that seems very important. And you read and I read everything and There are times that people like I'm looking at one now, there's a lovely woman that's been on the show before. And she wants to come back on now because she's now dealing with breast cancer on top of everything else. And she and she, she thinks she's got something to share with people, and I agree with her. But, I mean, listen, I don't have breast cancer, but I still, I still read her note about it. And it's hard to read. And then you don't mean like, oh, yeah, and that's one thing. So you think that's not bad. I also, if I scroll down one, the next note is from a guy whose brother passed away, and this happened, and he wants to share this on the podcast. And then you scroll to more, and this person has a problem, and you scroll, and it's so everybody who contacts me has, like stuff going on. And so

Charis 55:46
Oh, yeah. And it's like the worst thing in the world that's happened to them. And they're just reaching out because they're in pain, right?

Scott Benner 55:52
And then so I process it. I don't take it into the level, obviously, their burden, but I process it. And then I feel it for a little while, and you're like, oh, god, she's got breast cancer. And, you know,

Charis 56:08
oh, you're an empath. I'm an empath that's like, a blessing and a curse.

Scott Benner 56:13
But also, there was a moment where it was gonna kill me. And I was like, I have, I have to stop doing this to this degree. So I don't like yeah, I found a way to read it and understand it, but I don't. I don't, I don't know. It's like, I don't put a face to it anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Charis 56:31
I know, I've seen people like on the Facebook site, say, I want to kill myself, like, I could just take insulin. And I'm like, okay, 510 years ago, I would have reached out to that person and DM them and be like, are you okay? Do you have a plan? You know, like, these are all the things you're supposed to do as a nurse. I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna report it to Facebook, and I'm gonna be okay with that. But like I've at least, reported it so that it is taken care of, by a team that is meant to handle that. And I'm not taking on as my own responsibility to fix them. Because the truth is that you can't fix them. Yeah, you know, and you want to, and you want to say something that is soothing, and will help them. But every time you do that, you just lose a little piece of yourself. If you're not careful. There's so

Scott Benner 57:24
there's two different ways to think about it too, which is interesting, which is you can't spend there. There's an never ending supply of people who are in that person's situation, right? Yep. So you never ended, right? You can't make it your burden to find all of them and to respond to all of them. Because once you respond, by the way, you're involved now. Oh, yeah, you're like, Yeah, you have no idea how many people you've heard on this podcast, who stay in contact with me, like so. Like, I know how people are doing. And even in little ways, the one that I always think of as an example, is in one of the afterdark, Jonathan, who was a young guy with bipolar. And if he's listening, I hope he's okay. But he'll message me. Yeah, he'll message me like every six months. And it just says something like, Hey, I'm doing well. But if I respond, but if I respond to him, he won't respond back. And now, or, but that and that's hard. But listen, again, I'm not I'm not comparing his situation with mine. But that's hard for me. And then, and he's one of many people, and so I don't want them to stop. But I also had to find a way to go okay, well, I hope Jonathan's okay, but I can't sit here and worry about him. Anyway, yeah. So I

Charis 58:45
didn't get in like a life coach for how to deal with that. Because, I mean, since I'm, like so empathic, and want to help people that's like, my mission in life is to help people. It just became such a burden that I was like, oh, man, I gotta come up with like, a ritual to, like, get that bad juju up.

Scott Benner 59:06
I just I learned

Charis 59:07
a lot of things to a lot of tools to do that. And it really helps. So

Scott Benner 59:14
yeah, it's a human thing. Right. Like, it's just, I just talked about it yesterday. You know, I gave a talk yesterday, to someone. And I told them that one of the things that you had I had to get past was the feeling that I was responsible for everybody. Because right, you make you make this thing. Like you have to imagine I make the podcast like I have expectations that I hope it will do what I think it's going to do, but I have no way to know did you ever think it was gonna explode like it? Yeah, there's no way to know that. And then, and then you start getting back from people. Oh, this is helping me and this is how it's helping me. And then you think, well, if I could help them, if I could reach 10 People would help 10 people, and then you do that? Yeah, right. And then you're like, Oh, I reach 10 people, I should get to 100. And then 100 becomes 1000 1000 becomes 10,000 10,000. It's like I wonder if I get With 100,000. And then when you throw 100,000, you start thinking like, why What if I get a million downloads? And then you get that you're like, I wonder if I get 2 million and then 5 million and then 10. And like, I'm almost a 10 now. And I thought it was five, wow, 10 million total downloads will happen like in the next 30 days? And oh my god as party? No, because I can't, because when I see that I think I did 5 million this year. Like, I wonder if I could do 10 million next year. And then you start thinking about how to do that. How do you make content that helps people, because when it helps people, they'll want to share it with somebody, when they share it with somebody, they'll reach 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, and those will be more people who will have the moment in their life where they can say, Here's Scott, I found this podcast, bah, bah, bah. And that part I don't care about, the part I care about is when they say my agency went from this to this and my time and range went up, and I'm happier and healthier. And I have more energy and like those come constantly. Yeah, you know, and so when you know the content is going to work. It's the burden of everyone, right? Like, it's, it's like, it means it means more to me, because I know it helps somebody. And so you just, it's always about like, how do I find more people to help? And, you know, even that I found a way to, although I guess there are people who know me would say that that's not true. I am very competitive within, like with the idea of reaching more people and helping more people. So I've taken my competitiveness and put it into a positive thing. You know what I mean?

Charis 1:01:30
Oh, yeah, I mean, so I, one of the things I wanted to tell you is that after I was in the ICU, I didn't learn anything, you know, and I'm sitting there, like, you know, got cerebral edema. And my eyes are just, like, looking underwater for it just kind of boom, happened when I they moved me from the ICU to the floor. And I'm like, What's wrong with my eyes? Nobody's paying attention my eyes. It's like, that's what I fixated on. I'm like, I can't see how am I gonna function. And we're just like, you know, you like you have diabetes, you, it'll go away, it'll be fine. You know, whatever. And I had CDE come in, and sit down and say it's because the sugar is going into the lens of your eyes. And that's like osmosis, and it's dry and water and cuz like water follows sugar. And that it like, expands the lens and distorts everything. So I ended up going to boot camp with her because it was like, I don't know. I love the comments on your podcast for people are like, nurses don't know anything. And I'm like, yeah, and they tell us that too. And nursing school, they're like, don't ever, ever, ever assume you know more about diabetes than a patient that's had it for four years. If they have a pump, they know more than you, you will never know anything. Don't take that pump away from them. Don't challenge them think that you will learn from them. That's how you're gonna I mean, but I went to nursing school. So I wish everybody got that lecture. But yeah, she taught me exactly why. And then she's like, go and get a bunch of those like little optical reader glasses that you can get, like CVS or Walmart or whatever, like a box of um, because my visual would change every day. And this is a really inexpensive solution. I just feel like, am I gonna be 1.0 magnification or 1.75? You know, how long did that go on for three months? Drive for three months, it was horrible. That asked my friends to drive my kids to school and my mom and I mean, like I was a burden. And that CD II talked about your podcast and that's how I found it. And so while I was blind, I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna listen to this

Scott Benner 1:03:55
okay, can't see it. Thanks. So I'll try

Charis 1:03:58
and and it was like your voice was like, and your podcast was like my lifeline because like, I just really they just don't teach you anything in nursing. They don't and and in medicine, medical school like it there's too many diseases out there are so many and I know that that UND is a really big deal now and I really wish I could go back to all my patients I have had to end and apologize and be like, I just thought you took insulin and it was fine. Here I am like oh my god, I had no idea no idea how hard it is and what a steep learning curve it is and how much it affects the people around them and and how little knowledge is out there. Really incomplete information and so

Scott Benner 1:04:49
first, I'm sorry, you were gonna say something nice about me. Go ahead do that first.

Charis 1:04:57
I mean, I credit a credit your podcast. First, and the CD to saving my life and just like making it better, you know? Let it help. It did, it really did and then finding the Facebook community was just huge because it was like, oh, there's all these people with it. And I don't, okay. Okay. So if I'm just like patient, and I get my levels under control, then like, I will get better. And I was religious about it. You know, I got a Dexcom, like, two weeks in or something, which I had to really fight for. It was able to get from 13, eight to 5.8. Now I had, like some lows. So that's why it was a 5.8. But that's how fast you know, I was learning and trying to figure this whole thing out, you know. And it was like, I just learned so much from the podcasts that really attributed to keeping me alive.

Scott Benner 1:05:58
Well, I'm so you're welcome. Are you trying to say thank you?

Charis 1:06:01
I'm trying to say thank you.

Scott Benner 1:06:04
I can see you, we're never gonna get to it. So you're welcome.

Charis 1:06:07
You're like, say thank you.

Scott Benner 1:06:10
You know, I don't mean that. No, we're I mean, it can be hard. Yeah, it can be hard to say that. So I appreciate that you that you had that experience, and that it was valuable for you? Because, you know, like I said earlier, I don't know what I meant when I made the podcast the first time. Like, I wasn't sure all I knew was that I had written these blogs that were helping people and that people weren't reading blogs anymore. So I wrote a book about the became

Charis 1:06:39
like, the floppy disk.

Scott Benner 1:06:43
I saw myself going the way of the dodo with that blog, right? Because people I don't know what happened to all you but nobody reads. So you know, like it just it fell apart. I actually it's when the when the internet got more clickable. Oh, like so you know, you don't you can take in information without taking in words. And then people are like, I don't want to read. So I don't want to read. And so they weren't. And I luckily I keep saying this. I keep thinking maybe she'll hear it, but probably not. I had written a book about something, not about diabetes. And I found myself like on the Katie Couric show, and I got done. Oh, that was the side and she's like, Hey, you, you're really good at talking to people. And I was like, Oh, yeah. And so when that happened, that just jumped back into my head, like a year and a half later when I thought, Oh, I'm losing, like blogging is going to hell. This is going to end. And as I thought about I was like, I really don't want this to end. But I think it is because I went from like 1.8 million clicks a year, and it was falling. And I was like, it's not me. I'm still amazing, is that people? People really aren't reading. And then I thought well, that I was good at talking to people. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll try a podcast. And so

Charis 1:07:54
that's got like the voice for it, too. So

Speaker 1 1:07:59
it does make it easier. I have to tell you like there. I don't think you're wrong. I think I've listened to podcasts before where I don't jive with the person's voice and yeah, you kind of can't do it. So and there are people who don't like my voice. I've gotten emails, really, I liked the content. I don't like your voice and I was like, Okay, I like the content. I don't like your personality. That one hurts a little more.

Scott Benner 1:08:25
My mom says I'm alright, so go to hell. And so, but no, but and again, my favorite ones are I hate that guy. But the podcast is so valuable. I listen to it anyway. Like, I think I love those. Those are my favorite. Like because I just I laugh inside thinking that right now someone's listening. And not only did they hate me, but now I'm telling them I know it and they're like, and I'm still gonna listen.

Charis 1:08:54
And then if you step back, you're gonna make money.

Scott Benner 1:08:58
Absolutely tick it tickles me to no end so you hate me and I there's an ad in this episode that I paid my electric bill with. So

Charis 1:09:06
but you just don't.

Scott Benner 1:09:08
Meanwhile, I you know, I get I get that everybody can't like, I'm gonna tell you something right now. I listen to a podcast. I hate the host. Really? I hate her cadence. I hate her voice. I hate her sense of humor. There's nothing about her that I find enjoyable. But I listen to that podcast because it teaches me about something I need to know. So I am that person. I am you if you're listening and you're like, I hate this guy, but god damn it once. He's good. Like so.

Charis 1:09:40
I'll just like deal with my irritation.

Speaker 1 1:09:43
Actually in the same situation with another podcast, just so you all know I listen to a podcast. I hate the host how guests is valuable. So yeah, oh, by the way, I don't hate her. I'm sure she's fine. Just there's a lot about her that doesn't jive with what I want to be listening to. Aesthetically. That's all she You know, times, man, I, there are times that she'll laugh. And I'll say out loud, I'm by myself and I'll say out loud Oh, shut up. That's not funny.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
When she starts telling his story, and I'm like, oh my god, wrap it up Jesus Christ. And I know people are listening to me and having the same thought. So it makes me laugh twice. Anyway,

Charis 1:10:25
tick tock versus YouTube, right? We're getting so impatient that of like, you have to have this, like, you know, listen, in a perfect world, instant gratification or whatever, you know,

Speaker 1 1:10:37
in the perfect in a perfect world, I'd get the host that I like to listen to. But turns out, she's the only one making the content. Yep, it's valuable to me. And so I put up with the fact that I don't want to be friends with this person, although she seems delightful. And I'm sure that's how other people see this. I probably don't think I'm funny or whatever. But they've been listening for a while they've seen a good health response. And like, alright, well, listen, I, you know, I can do that. Having said that, was a person one time that Arden came on once? And I think in the course of the conversation, she said that she doesn't believe in God. Right. And I got notes from people are like, I can't listen to this anymore. Oh, my gosh, are

Charis 1:11:17
you kidding me?

Scott Benner 1:11:18
I'm like, That's fine with me. I mean, you are the same person who wrote me six months ago to tell me the gray one season the fives. But I mean, this is if this is the cut your nose off to spite your face like line you want to draw on the sand. I was like, okay, whatever. But I would just mean like things like that happen. It's so funny, though. It's like, man, it's understandable, don't you think? I mean, I get it.

Charis 1:11:42
Yeah. And I think I've been challenging myself the past couple of years to like, broaden my circle of friends and like what I listen to, to be not just what I like, because then I'm creating this place where I'm just shutting myself down and having like, internal bias, and then I'm not like evolving and growing as a person. So that's what I did. With all the, you know, the past three years, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna evolve as a person. Because there's really nothing else I can do.

Scott Benner 1:12:18
We just sit here. I just as crazy as it sounds. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. I, I tried to do Oh, yeah, I took up a, it was a podcast. And I thought, I don't think I agree with the host. Yet people seem to like it. And I'm gonna listen through it. And so the host would espouse ideas. And I started to realize that there are things that I generally disagree with. And I'd have like this, like, I mean, I don't want to call it triggered, but like you, it was, it was an overreaction, say something? And I'd be like, that's not right. And then I'd realize, oh, I don't know if that's not right, or it just doesn't seem right to me. And that's exactly an important distinction. So I started listening more, to force myself to hear opinions that I didn't agree with. And that that was helpful.

Charis 1:13:10
It's very helpful, because it helps you understand the world better. I think that, you know, you're like, oh, that's why people are doing that. Now. I gotta, you know, before I was just like, I don't understand how somebody could do that. Eventually, now, it's like, oh, you know, if they listen to the other side of things, it's like, if you really ask somebody, like, what's their opinion on a controversial topic and be like, this is a safe space, I'm not going to judge you. Like, I just want to hear your side of the story. And just listen, it's like, it really expands your horizons, I think

Scott Benner 1:13:48
it teaches you not to be judgmental, as well. I just did an episode, I just did an episode a week ago that I'm going to put out in a couple of weeks, where I talked to the mom of a type one girl. And, and this mom has two daughters. They're both trans. And so like, it was like a, I had this what I thought was a really interesting conversation, where I'm trying to learn about how they think about things and you know, like, immerse myself in a world I don't know very much about and I got done, and I thought this was really good. I can't wait to put that out. And then a week later, I was like, am I gonna get in trouble for this? Like, because I don't know where to stand like, you don't you mean? And I realized I'm like, I don't care. Like it's an honest conversation. And I was honestly learning and someone else will learn will learn to and so I will absolutely put it out. And it's Yeah, I don't know like you just have to be able to get involved and hear someone say something and go I completely disagree with that. It doesn't make it wrong. And I'll tell you like you can pick the most bombastic example right like the abortion argument is that is that is a great way to like I understand pro choice people opinion and I understand pro life people's opinion. And I don't think I don't think understanding that a person's a pro life person says, Look, you're killing a baby if you have an abortion, right? Like, they say that. And then I think well, and that the other side thinks like, well, well, I want to protect the mother and bigger and bigger picture issues. And I think those things are important. And you can be right all about that, about all of that. It doesn't make what they said wrong.

Charis 1:15:30
Right? It's like, you can have different opinions and yet still respect each other. And how, like, give, I don't know, I have this thing where I just feel like I should give everybody that I interact with dignity and respect. It's like a basic human right. I know, I'm weird. But

Scott Benner 1:15:47
no, no, no, but but the point is, is that both sides can be right. Yeah. And it's just that you've decided that the things you care about in this argument are more important than the things you don't care about. So you fall on a side of it. And they feel the same exact way. And just because you're comfortable with your decisions doesn't make their decision wrong, it just means that they find more value in the parts of the discussion that they decided to take seriously. And no one sees that everybody's like, Well, I think this so that's wrong. All right. You know, and that's not the truth. You can, these are not mutually exclusive things, both. Both sides are right, they just care about, the more the details they care about are different. That's all Oh, if that makes sense or not, but

Charis 1:16:40
totally new way recently, it was like a week after Roe v. Wade was overturned, I went to my stepdad his profoundly pro life, but he doesn't ever talk about it. Like he just votes that way. And, you know, like, I've known him for 30 years. And we just never talked about it. And I sat down with him. And I was like, you know, what, I really want to hear why you're pro choice. I mean, are pro life. And I just want to hear, like your logic behind it and what that experience was like for you because he lived through when it was, you know, when 1973? Right. Yeah. And, and he said, You know, I just believe as a scientist, that life begins at conception. And so that's just my belief, and I can't get that out of my head. And who am I to tell people what to do with their body or whatever, but I just can't get that out of my head. And I was like, wow, that's just amazing that after 30 years, I finally sat down with him and was like, this is a safe place. I want to hear your experience. Because he was like, it just happened. And then, you know, people were going into clinics, and it was just shocking for him. Like almost a traumatic

Scott Benner 1:18:01
probably to learn that his opinion, wasn't that your opinion that other people's opinions don't matter, that you don't mean like, he's that in his mind. He's not anti women, or anti choice or anything like that. That's not how he processes the situation. That's not how he processes. That's, by the way, that's true for everything. So just imagine that right? Let's, I'm in charge of watching over 33,000 people talk to each other online. Whenever someone argues, it's never for the reason they think they're arguing. And you can step back as a third party and watch it and go, Oh, I see what happened here. This, this person hard, this person doesn't think that that should be the way they took it. And now everybody digs their heels in, and then they're going to argue, and I mean, obviously not the same thing as talking about big, big issues. But it's still it's still the idea. Like, there's I want to say that there's no right or wrong. There's just version, there's just like I said, there's salient details about a topic, that mean more to you than the other salient details, and then there's someone on the other side, where that's, that's flip flopped. And then you go, Well, you're wrong. They're not wrong. You know, it's, you could I mean, I had that conversation without mom, like, I understand when people say things, like, you know, like, like, did seem anti trans like, it's, it hits their brain that their brains, like can't process it, and then hear them. You hear the mom talk about the same topic from her perspective. And I go, Oh, that's, that makes 1,000% that that makes 100,000,000% sense to me. Like, I don't know how to argue with that. You know what I mean? And then the person on the other side is like, well, here's this thing that makes 100,000,000% sense to me. I don't know how anybody could argue with this. And

Charis 1:19:49
the Bible gets involved.

Scott Benner 1:19:51
And so the only way I could figure out how to like push myself past it was to listen to people that I abjectly disagreed with and to try to find their opinion It didn't make me jump to their side making error. It just made me go, Oh, I see what they're, I see why they're thinking about like this.

Charis 1:20:07
Yeah, like, like, they're not bad people, because I used to just say, Oh, they're just mad people that just have a different opinion. That was like such a young thing to say. But you know, like, as I've gotten older and like, you know, it's not so black and white. Yeah. And I think one of the things that happened during the pandemic was that my son actually said this, that it's like, we've become tribalism. So people found, you know, their people, and then they just stuck together. And I think that's one of the bad things that's happened. But there are some good things because there are people like you and I that are that can see past that and step outside of it and be like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Scott Benner 1:20:51
Well, you can just argue anything to the end of the earth. Right. And, and we slogan things, so Well, we're so good at sloganeering things. That because a great, I'll just the first one that pops into my head is meat is murder. Oh, yeah. Right here, you're like, Oh, my God, it is they killed the cow, you know, like, and then you're just like a cow, such a sweet animal. And like, I'm not certain that's right or wrong, you understand? I'm saying then someone comes along and says, Listen, we've developed over hundreds of 1000s of years to eat meat. And and we're carnivores. And you go, Oh, that makes sense, too. And then it just goes back and forth. And you think, you know, if you go out to a ranch in the middle of the Midwest, where they're ranching cattle, and I don't know, if they're branding, the cattle, there's somebody who's gonna come along, go, Oh, my God, that's you can't brand the cattle, people have been doing that for forever, that so they don't lose their cattle. And here we all are, and then you go, and then you can just, if you and I wanted to start arguing about that, I could just assign a side of the argument to you, you wouldn't even need to agree with it. And you could actively and impactfully argue that side of it, because there's so many details and slogans and concepts that you can't, you know, you can disagree with like, you're right. It's crazy. Although isn't it interesting? Like, I bet you that the meat is murder crowd is probably the pro choice crowd.

Charis 1:22:20
I think you're right. And then the pro life crowd might be the, or what is the? Well, you know, like, Wait, I don't understand the logic there. I'm sure there is some, like I just Yes.

Scott Benner 1:22:38
And that's what, by the way, when that happens, that's how the other side digs their heels in there, like so you're pro life, but pro death penalty. So we can't kill a baby where we can kill it. You've heard this argument, right? Yeah. And then you hear it over and over again, to the point where like, well, that must be a rule too. And then that's, anyway, the point is, if I may, no one's right. And no one's wrong. It just leave everybody. With your life, you know,

Charis 1:23:08
people like being on the internet. It's just such a funny thing, though. Because it's like, you know, they get so worked up. And it's like, this is just, you know, and medium to read things. And we assign emotional value to words, you know, and it's just so freaking computer. So that also is pointing you into your own little bubble with the machine learning, you know, so it's like, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:23:42
there's only a fraction of people are actually on the internet, which is hard to believe, like, so that's why Oh, yeah, only a fraction of people are on the internet. So most people don't give a shit about the argument you're having, they don't have their they get up in the morning, they're feed their kids, they're going to their work, they don't have time to decide if it's okay, that a trans man is swimming in a thing against other women. Like or, you know, it's just an example that came up in the other episode, or if you're having an abortion or not, or if like, they don't, they don't care. They're they're working, you know, so it gets focused. And you start thinking, well, the opinions I'm seeing in this space, are everyone's opinion, but it's not true. It's the opinions you're seeing that space are the opinions of people who would find themselves in that space. Right? Yeah. And that's

Charis 1:24:29
like its own kind of bias, right?

Scott Benner 1:24:33
Like you like if you're on Twitter, you think you're on Twitter with the whole world you're not you're on Twitter with people who it occurred to, to go on Twitter. And there are plenty of people who it would never occur to you to go on Twitter, and they may have different opinions than yours. Or like, you know, as an Exactly, yeah. Anyway, the point is, no one's right. No one's wrong. Shut up. That's it. I'm not right either.

Charis 1:24:53
Yeah, we need to you need to put that on your Facebook page right now because like some of them are

Scott Benner 1:25:00
Oh, no, it's Christmas. Oh, and so here's what happens at Christmas. Everyone's anxiety goes up, and they get chippy. Yep, you know, chippy it's a hockey term, I think. Just you know, and so every year around this time, I just put up a message about Christmas. I just thought that I'm gonna read it. And then we're gonna get done here. So I said, the goose is getting fat. Christmas is coming. And that can mean only one thing. It's time for me to remind everyone that this time of year can come with heightened feelings. Please remember to offer your fellow travelers the benefit of the doubt, communication is key. It is highly unlikely that anyone is with you. Oh,

Charis 1:25:44
I remember that. And I totally love that you said

Scott Benner 1:25:49
peace on earth and all that

Charis 1:25:54
is your best first.

Scott Benner 1:25:56
But it's interesting like to be involved in something like this over time, you start seeing how cyclical things are. Yeah, oh, it's this time of year, people get a little upset. This happens. And then you start seeing arguments in specific areas pick up you're like, oh, it's time for them to argue about this again. It's interesting. Trust me, your free will is not as free as you think it is. That's true. Yeah, Christmas is coming. You get upset, you can't afford something. You're thinking about having to get back together with your family that you don't want to get back together with or you want to get together with a family member but you can't afford to travel or something. And then anxiety builds up. Then you see a lady online say they eat low carb and you're like you must

Charis 1:26:41
see that. Like that's all carbs, I need the carbs. I just want the life with the carbs I just before

Scott Benner 1:26:54
the food choices around diabetes are such an interesting thing. Like it fits right into this passionate about it. Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate their passion, but Shut up. Like other people can eat a different way. And if it kills them, guess what? It's there. Yeah, it's not it's not that hard.

Charis 1:27:14
It's like with with that with that little freewill. They have that choice. You know,

Scott Benner 1:27:20
I had somebody tell me recently, like, I disagree with your eating style. But I think this podcast is great. And I thought

Charis 1:27:28
oh, are they ended up with that guy's name? The crazy diet guy.

Scott Benner 1:27:34
Well see now you've said crazy diet guy. So I'm not gonna guess anyone's name. Because I don't care how people eat. I genuinely don't like if you know, I really don't care

Charis 1:27:42
super low carb. And I don't

Scott Benner 1:27:44
think you listen, if you want to eat super low carb. I don't think you're crazy. I think they're on the worst for you. Yeah,

Charis 1:27:50
but yeah, that's totally their choice. But

Scott Benner 1:27:54
come after her. Leave me alone. It's Dr. Bernstein. I was like, I knew what you meant, but I wasn't gonna say it. So, because, and seriously, because I don't think they're crazy. I think that they found. Yeah, they found something that works for them. I don't understand why they can't be happy when other people want to try to find a different thing that works for them too. But it's okay. And And meanwhile, that's also an over exaggeration. Everybody who eats low carb doesn't go online and yell at people. It's a small consortium of people who if I'm being honest, seem like they're trying to make a living off it a little bit. And so it's good to kind of keep the argument going because it draws people in. And this is where I'll tell the story. That when I wrote that book I talked about earlier, it sold for a month, like a best seller. I couldn't figure out why. Like I was top I think I was in the top 50 on Amazon, all books, all books for like, for like a week. So as this was happening, Somebody contacted me and said, see your books like number 46 in the country. And I'm like, that's not right. And then I went look, and it was, and I was like, How is this happening? So here's how it happened. There was the interview I did with Katie Couric that got reposted on Yahoo. Maybe? And oh, yeah. Okay, and it made its way to the front page of Yahoo. And comment on it. And an argument ensued, that if I was a stay at home father, it meant I was a closeted homosexual. Oh, wow. That was that was the argument. This was like 2013. And then people would come in and say that's not true. And, and then they argued with each other. And while they were arguing, you know what happened? Next people bought the book.

Charis 1:29:47
People buy the book, because they want to read what's this about? So my

Scott Benner 1:29:51
wife says to me, does it bother you that this argument is happening around you? And I was like, No. Bonus, people are buying the book. And so I think of that the same way with these arguments about how people eat. Like, you don't see, you never see just a guy arguing with somebody about you shouldn't eat carbs, you'll see a guy who's got a Facebook page about low carb, and he likes to coach people about it, or he's selling a video where he wants to get you back to his YouTube or something like that those people are happy to argue, because that argument gins up eyes, then there's a bunch of eyes in there, and then they grab some of the eyes. Yep. And those eyes become funny. And there's money behind that. So that's really, that's how you see it happen. I can even think of people who run great Facebook groups around an idea that is not monetized. And those people are not argumentative, the people who are argumentative, monetizing something somewhere, because as long as the people are arguing about whether or not I'm gay, some percentage of those people go by the book. So we argue about how we eat and some percentage of those people end up on my website, or it's someone else's website. And they're buying a six week course and how to do something, or they're donating to their 501 C three about how they eat or something. Trust me, it's

Charis 1:31:16
not Yeah, there's undercurrents of everything was a whole influencer thing.

Scott Benner 1:31:21
So when you get caught up in those arguments, just realize that you have been purposefully drawn into that argument by someone who just wants your IP address or, or something like that. Anyway, that's all I have for you. This was good, you're good. Yeah, I gotta, I'm out of time. So I gotta stop. Go take care of your kids. I got to figure out what Cole wants. And I gotta get to a meeting in a little bit. So yeah,

Charis 1:31:49
it was such a pleasure talking to you. I just want you to know, the Keep doing what you're doing and sending out, you know, positive energy in the world where not everybody does. Well, you're making a difference.

Scott Benner 1:32:04
I appreciate that. You should know that. I tried two different tactics with you because you are like, you have a lot of energy. Yeah, right. And so I tried matching your energy. And that didn't work. Because some sometimes if you match it, like everybody levels, and then so that I tried going opposite. So people were still listening can think about this, then I tried going opposite of you to see if I could draw you towards me. It was just an exercise for me. I know which one were neither of them. You blue bass, both of them.

Charis 1:32:36
That sounds like me. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 1:32:39
Neither of them worked. I thought maybe I could because I wanted you like 10% less. And so it's okay, by the way, you were terrific. But I but I thought well, I'll match her and then she'll, she'll feel my energy and come down that Yeah. Oh, real low key, and I'll try to pull her towards me. And that didn't work either.

Charis 1:32:57
That's because I am like this. Daughter of a very powerful woman.

Scott Benner 1:33:04
Oh, you're fighting? You fight for your space a lot.

Charis 1:33:07
Yeah. All right. All right. Got that model to me. So I'm not afraid to speak up. And it gets me in trouble all the time.

Scott Benner 1:33:18
Not to me. I know.

Charis 1:33:21
I'd have something to say. And so. Yeah, so as does everybody else. And yeah, so. I mean, I

Scott Benner 1:33:30
think it's great. Good for you. Great.

Charis 1:33:34
I think one thing that I forgot to mention was, like the whole link between COVID and diabetes, because people are gonna be like, Why is this? Why are we talking about COVID?

Scott Benner 1:33:44
Oh, yeah, that is what you wanted to come on.

Charis 1:33:47
I totally forgot until just when you're

Scott Benner 1:33:50
like I'm out of time. Give it Give it to me.

Charis 1:33:53
There's only studies out I find them interesting. I don't know if that's what caused me to get it I think it is my doctor's thinking is but they've done a study with 200,000 people. And it was saying that people got COVID had like a two times as likely chance to then go on into develop either type one or type shoot down the road about six months thereafter. If I'm not just like, fascinating, because

Scott Benner 1:34:22
I mean, now listen, viruses can your kick they kick your immune system in and if you're predisposed to type one, then you might be thinking I listen. I I'm my son got COVID I was like, Oh, come on. Come on. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's only been a couple of months since he got it. So I mean, I'm having said that most of the people I've had on who were COVID than type one, it happened pretty quickly. But that's, that's anecdotal. Like that's just the people that I spoken to so far. But yeah,

Charis 1:35:00
yeah, it's interesting. It's just, I mean, and there's arguments. The virus actually attacks beta cells. And then, you know, other scientists are like, No, it doesn't. And so who knows?

Scott Benner 1:35:13
Yeah, back to our original conversation, actually our fourth conversation, trust.

Charis 1:35:19
Me Maybe think the one we had was better. So, yeah, no, I just think it's funny how there's so many different kinds of diabetes. I did not know that there's, like 10, or something. Last time I.

Scott Benner 1:35:32
I did an episode about that. There's like an endless there's types of diabetes. Lis Yeah.

Charis 1:35:38
Had a roommate at this time diabetes retreat I went to in Costa Rica, and she had mid. And you're like, hey, what? So that's mitochondrial inherited diabetes that comes with deafness.

Scott Benner 1:35:57
Okay. While no, it's not because Jenny and I did an episode about it. And we Oh, my God, like, there's diabetes type eight or something I forget. But it's, it's Oh, I

Charis 1:36:10
know. Like, it just opened my mind in my eyes to like, how different it is, and yet how we're all kind of going through the same thing. So back to your original point of you know, this, I see this a lot on your Facebook page, like, let's get rid of the type twos. And I'm like, that's, you know, 90.

Scott Benner 1:36:33
So it's interesting that you, it's interesting that it appears to you that way, because I have my I think if you see a couple of people say a thing, you think, Oh, I hear that all the time. But I see. I see all of it. And I've only heard it a couple of times. But it is a weird thing. It strikes me as like, like, I don't want to type two people here because we're talking about type one. And I keep pointing back to the type two people have been on the podcast and say, like, listen to these people who have, you know, needed insulin as type twos and how they're basically managing just the same way you do and how much better you know. So it's, it's about insulin, if you're using manmade insulin, the podcast should be valuable to you. Definitely. That's what I think so. All right. I have to go. This was lovely. Thank you very much. Hold on one second for me. Oh, my pleasure.

Huge thanks to Karis for coming on the show and sharing her story with us. Thanks to AG one drink, ag one.com forward slash juice box. And, of course, touched by type one, where you can find on Facebook, Instagram, and it touched by type one.org. You've got to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. It's a private group that now has I think, 43,000 members in it. It's jumping. So many posts, questions, statements, ideas and things that you'll dig on and enjoy reading more about. You might even want to jump in Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

don't forget that diabetes Pro Tip series begins at episode 1000 In your player and goes to 1026. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.