Scott Benner 2/19/24 Scott Benner 2/19/24

#1134 Jake Leach from Dexcom talks G7 and Stelo

Dexcom EVP Jake Leach returns to answer listener questions about G7 and fill us in on the new Stelo.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1134 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's podcast Jake leeches back from Dexcom. He's going to talk about Dexcom G seven, you guys asked a bunch of questions I asked him of Jake, and he's here to tell us about a new product called the Dexcom stello. I said hello stello But he said that was not the marketing campaign. I thought it was amazing. Whatever. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years. You can as well us med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next one.com/juicebox. And no Dexcom is not sponsoring this episode. You can use my link in the show notes to find out more about Dexcom what no Hell, alarms are going off. Everybody run dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. The alarm was just to remind me to make a phone call. Jake, I appreciate you coming on. I know we're short on time. I have a lot of questions here. Do you mind if I jump right in?

Jake Leach 2:36
Let's do it, Scott.

Scott Benner 2:37
Okay. Is it pronounced stello? Like hello?

Jake Leach 2:40
It is Hello. You got it.

Scott Benner 2:42
Okay, is it just for type twos? Can people with pre diabetes get it? What about other biohacking stuff? Like where's it going to fall in the market? Yeah, so

Jake Leach 2:51
we're super excited about the stellar product. It's specifically designed for people with type two diabetes that are not taking insulin. And there's some very specific reasons for that. It's really around the product features and the needs that it's trying to address for users. We can go into those. But you know, it's there's that 25 million people out there in the US that have type two that do not treat their diabetes with insulin. And so it's really targeted. There's not great availability of CGM for that population. And so that's really what we're going after it's specifically designed for their needs, is built on the same performance and accuracy reliability of Dexcom CGM, but has a new mobile app that is completely redesigned for that user group.

Scott Benner 3:37
Why do people in this category need something different than what you already make? why did why? What was the necessity for a different product? Yeah, so

Jake Leach 3:45
there's a couple of ways to look at but one of the most important ones is that this is this population is not at risk of hypoglycemia. There's, you know, the really important components of our G seven product, and G six and previous generations of that G series that has the predictive low glucose alerts, the low glucose alerts, the urgent low, the 55, all of that technology was developed about keeping people safe from hypoglycemia. This group of people with type two that aren't using insulin, and also don't have a risk of hypoglycemia. That's what this product is designed for. So it doesn't have those alerts. The way we think about it is it has all the information and insights without the interruptions of alerts, they don't need those. And so it's a much simpler product. When I know someone who is using G seven and isn't taking insulin, it doesn't have hyperglycemia challenges. I basically say turn off all those alerts, get all the turmoil in your urgent low, you can't turn off but all the rest of them, you can just turn them off because you don't want you don't want those, you know, nuisance alarms happening.

Scott Benner 4:49
So if there's a person who's typed to right now wearing g7, for example, and they do get low, for whatever reason, maybe they're I don't know, who cares. Why will they be forced To be to go on to stello buy insurance needs, now they'll be able to stay with what they have.

Jake Leach 5:05
Yeah, if you're if you're covered, if you're, you know, g7, if you have coverage for g7, that's not going to change. Coverage for g7 is really strong across all multiple daily injections, insulin pump therapies, Basal insulin, and then there is some coverage. For people who are in this category that, you know, they don't have hypoglycemic challenges. They're not an insulin, but they're using CGM. And so we actually did a published a study of 7200 of our users that went on to G six, and used it to really increase the GERD increase their time and range, but they were all people with type two diabetes, that were not treating it with insulin, they happen to be able to get access to the device, and so they're using it. And so but you know, they're basically using g7. They've got the real time data, but stello is going to be a much better product for that group.

Scott Benner 5:54
So is there a accuracy difference between stello and G seven? No, it's

Jake Leach 5:59
exactly the same level of performance, accuracy, reliability, it is the first 15 Day sensor, okay, that we're launching. And so it has 15 day where it's on the g7 platform in terms of hardware, but it's branded different, and it has a completely different mobile app, the way we think about it is accuracy is extremely important to anyone who's monetary glucose, whether they're, you know, they're treating their diabetes with insulin. Maybe they're not. Or even you know, when you think about health and wellness, it's so important for CGM to be accurate, you can easily be misled to think you have a metabolic disorder if the CGM is off by even a little bit. Sure.

Scott Benner 6:38
So does this mean we're going to get a 15 day where G seven,

Jake Leach 6:41
that's the goal? Yeah, we're working on a 15 day where G seven as well, we're actually doing clinical trials right now, on some enhanced technology on the sensor probe, in particular, to ensure we get the low level of reliability, we want out to 15 days, we have a very high bar for performance and reliability out to the total sensor wear time. And so we take that very seriously, because we know that our customer satisfaction has a lot to do with the performance and reliability of our sensors. And knowing that we want to make sure that the duration is truly the full 15 days and not something, you know, less than that plus

Scott Benner 7:23
what you just talked about, about being safe in lower numbers and and having that accuracy down there is really important. All right, well, they need a prescription. It sounds like yes,

Jake Leach 7:32
yeah, right now, you know all CGM is in the United States, FDA has declared their prescription devices. And so the idea is, you know, you need the performance need accurate accuracy, reliability, but the other their prescription devices until the FDA decides they're not

Scott Benner 7:48
the is the biohacking market big enough for you guys to be interested in? And does this product put you closer to that

Jake Leach 7:55
ease? Great question I do that we've definitely feel that there is, you know, a really large opportunity outside of diabetes for CGM and metabolic health, and generally healthy living thing about pre diabetes. The stello product is specifically designed for this group of type two users that don't have great access to CGM, and we really want to build a product for them. And you know, it's a large group of people that could significantly benefit from having real time CGM data. And so that's what we're focused on. Yeah, it puts us closer towards towards the group. And you know, as we go down that acuity curve, but we felt like, this is a group that doesn't have a product designed for them today. And that's why we basically focused on on that, oh, my

Scott Benner 8:38
brother, I'm gonna call him as soon as this is over, I've been able to give him a sensor once in a while. And the difference it makes in his life with type two is insane. And but his insurance won't help him get a CGM at this moment, with type two because he doesn't use insulin. Our

Jake Leach 8:54
goal is to basically generate whatever evidence is required so that we can ultimately get coverage for this population. Because there you're right, the benefits are so clear, yeah, many folks, you know, that aren't taking insulin are, you know, haven't ever really monitored their blood glucose. And so they have no idea how it changes throughout the day I was talking to someone recently, who had started using CGM is in this category has type two recently diagnosed type two, and didn't really, you know, just was told over time that their agency numbers were creeping up, but he was told to eat healthier exercise more and more activity, but it's not particularly helpful information. But when you know, he got access to a CGM and start using it. He learned so much about how his diet was impacting his glucose and he just started making all kinds of not that dramatic, he didn't like go you know, keto or anything. He just made some some subtle changes that was really impactful to his average glucose, you know, is average glucose was around 150. And he's you know, been working it down to the point where, you know, hopefully he's gonna lower it's able to see you know, below six and a half and get get out of the diet. So,

Scott Benner 10:00
do you see this as a constant wear item? Or do you think it could be educational for them? And then they might not need it after that?

Jake Leach 10:06
I think everyone's gonna be different. I think it's gonna be a lot of different use cases, as we go to this, this broader population. I think, you know, for me, when I think about stello, and the importance of the product, one of the things is really important is to make it extremely engaging, so that people engage with the data. Basically, there's a component of it significant upfront, that's going to be around education, and continuing to understand how different foods do impacts, you know, particular individual. But then there's also the component about reinforcing positive behavior, right? I mean, you can basically when you see your data, you see your average glucose is really in line. It's a constant reminder of boy, you're really doing well, let's keep doing that. I think a lot of people are going to work continuously, we see like when we've used the product in these populations, where we've seen users that are having access to CGM today that are in this group of users that don't take insulin, they do want to keep using it, the were times are very consistent even with what we see in our insulin users. So I do think there's a significant demand out there for this type of product. And the benefits are pretty clear. And CGM is a very cost effective tool for managing the overall cost of somebody that has diabetes. And so we really feel there's an opportunity here to overtime, get get this product reimbursed, but at first it's going to be cash pay at a very affordable competitive price out there in the market.

Scott Benner 11:28
So the pricing will be different than like if I tried to cash by g7

Jake Leach 11:32
Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be different. It's a different product. It'll be different. We haven't we're not releasing any details exactly around it until we launch but the the goal of this product is to make it accessible to as many people as

Scott Benner 11:45
possible. Launch you're hoping for mid year 2012.

Jake Leach 11:49
Yeah, summertime. Yeah. Summertime. So it's under review by the FDA right now. We submitted it last year. Review is going great. Soon as we get an approval We'll start you know we're we're already working through the stages of getting ready for launch. Yeah, we plan to launch it this summer

Scott Benner 12:00
is that review mostly aimed at the app and the BME because if the device is the same as G seven What's there to review. Far too often we accept the blood glucose meter that someone hands to us, the doctor reaches into a drawer and goes here, take this one. That is that is the one you want. Is that accurate, you have no way of knowing. But if you want accuracy, and you want to be confident in the blood glucose readings that you're getting from your meter, you want that contour next gen. It's incredibly easy to get the same meter that Arden uses, just go to contour next one.com/juicebox That's all you have to do. The contour next gen is easy to use and highly accurate. It features a smart light that provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And of course, Second Chance sampling technology that can help you to save money with fewer wasted strips, contour next one.com/juicebox I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies. I never had a good experience. And it was frustrating. But it hasn't been that way for a while actually for about three years now. Because that's how long we've been using us med us med.com/juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, the number one rated distributor index comm customer satisfaction surveys. They have served over 1 million people with diabetes since 1996. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping. US med carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three and Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers find out why us med has an A plus rating with a better business bureau at us med.com/juicebox Or just call them at 888-721-1514. Get started right now. And you'll be getting your supplies the same way we

Jake Leach 14:21
do. You're right it's a it's a simpler review. Because there isn't as much g7 was a massive review for us because we changed so much of the product. It is extending out to 15 days. So we did a clinical study to show I CGM level performance all the way out to 15 days. So there's clinical data review. And then there is a lot of it is the user interface and the human factors. I mean, one of the important things here is for people who get access to this product, understand that they're on insulin, they should have g7 They shouldn't have this product, this product is really for those that don't aren't at risk for hypoglycemia. That's one of the important factors. But yeah, they're basically doing that review. So We're hoping for swift approval and being able to launch this summer. Do you have any concern that if it's so much cheaper in cash, and people can't get covered for g7, that type ones will use it and then not have the safety net of that LOW Alert? is a great question, Scott, something we kind of discussed and organized around eternally saves coverage for g7, when you think about out of pocket costs is really good in the United States if you have coverage, right. So if you have coverage, when it's the lowest out of pocket costs CGM available, on average, you know, a third of our users pay nothing. And then you know, the average copay is less than $40. If someone does get access to it, it is very accurate and reliable from a glucose reading perspective. So I think in that case, you know, you've got a safety safety factor there. But if anyone is using insulin, G seven is really the right, right product for them, because it has those, those safety features. But I think in general, having access to glucose readings is better than nothing. Yeah. So in general, you know, that's one of the reasons why the performance and accuracy is so important, even for this type of product is you really, people need accurate, reliable data. Yeah, it

Scott Benner 16:09
feels like to me the difference between what obviously the FDA has set up as you know, guardrails for keeping people using insulin safe. And that's great for the population. But for one on one people who are stuck, I agree with some things better than nothing. So it's interesting, does this gonna cover for pre diabetes? Do you think

Jake Leach 16:27
that when I think about products, I think about the user groups and designing it for their intended needs, I think there's quite a bit of overlap between people who have pre diabetes and those that have been diagnosed with diabetes, there's a lot of overlap there. But I do feel like our main focus right now is all about this group of type two twos. But you know, we're going to, we're going to continue to evolve. I mean, we're planning a pretty rapid pipeline of enhancements to this product, based on, you know, things that we already have in the hopper in terms of release training that we want to get out features for stello. But also, based on what we learned, once we launched it, right, getting this product out in a large number of people's hands, getting the customer feedback, we've always, you know, we strive to make sure that all the user feedback gets filtered back into the team. And then we develop, we make feature enhancements based on user feedback. That's primarily that's what primarily drives both the features we implement and the timeframes for which we do it. That's going to be exciting kind of release train. And so you know, as overtime, we do feel like there's lots of opportunities to help people, you know, live healthier, lower their average glucose, better mouth, metabolic health,

Scott Benner 17:32
it's all good. I just think that I just had an experience with a family member who wanted to get a GLP. And they're a one C was point one off of being technically having diabetes, saw the doctor literally told her just get your a one C A little higher and come back and I can get it for you.

Jake Leach 17:48
I was like, Well, is this what we're doing know that some of the the way the healthcare systems work and things? Sometimes that is unfortunate that you end up in a situation having to make decisions like that? Yeah, it's crazy.

Scott Benner 18:03
Besides the feedback that comes from the audience all the time about how grateful they are and stuff like that. There was just one person who said, Could you please do more advocating with insurance for other people who would need CGM, they use this as an example, adrenal insufficiency. That's the thing that's not covered. And I guess what they're saying is, if you're ever in a meeting, could you just yell out that too, for other people who experienced low blood sugars but don't fall into these categories?

Jake Leach 18:27
I couldn't. Yeah, I completely agree. I think you know, one of the things when we advocated around Basal coverage with Medicare, we did push very hard for that hypoglycemic people who have hypoglycemia incidents are at risk that aren't on insulin, right? That group is covered under Medicare. And we're working to try and get better coverage by private payers, for anybody who has risk of hypoglycemia, okay? Because we fully understand that it's g7 is a great tool for that group. Getting better insurance coverage is really important.

Scott Benner 19:01
So Jake, as you may imagine, when I reached out to the audience for questions about stello, I also got g7 questions. Of course, is there anything else about stello? Or before I hit you with these, these questions?

Jake Leach 19:14
The only thing I'd say is, you know, people often ask, why do we Why do we name it stello. And so that that word, in Italian, it means stem, and it really stands for growth and resilience, and progress. And that's the way we think about how this, our hopes for it is that it provides that type of support and benefit to people with type two. So it's a it's exciting name, you ended up naming a product that always there's a lot of things that go into that, but it was a really fun journey to land on it.

Scott Benner 19:42
I just assumed you wanted to have commercials that said hello, say hello. And so I didn't think there was much more than that to it, but it's nice to know there's something else to it. That's what I was saying. All right, ready? I'm just gonna start I'm going to start big and then go lower. Usually I would do it the other way, but no reason to tease that out. There's only 10 more minutes in the episode. So Omnipod, five and g7. Yeah, timeframe that you know about anything you're willing to say, hey, net cough twice?

Jake Leach 20:07
Yeah, it's the same, basically is what insolate has said they're tracking? Well, you know, we've done all the validation work. And so we're excited for it to come as quick as possible. So,

Scott Benner 20:18
okay. When people asked me, I tell them, I'm like, that's a Omnipod question. It's not a Dexcom question. But if I don't ask you, I'll get. There'll be pitchforks. So g7 has been out for a little while now. Yeah. Has there been any? Or are there any plan changes or improvements that have happened or happening?

Jake Leach 20:37
Yeah, there's there's quite a bit actually, we've behind the scenes, with any new product, when you launch it, you've got things that were in the pipeline that you wanted to implement, and you launch it, and you continue to implement those enhancements, and also, based on user feedback, and as we see the product performing, we're really happy with how g7 launch has gone globally. And we've made quite a few enhancements, some of the examples would be as we enhance, we put a feature in the Bluetooth called Rapid reconnect. And so what now your g7 does, and we're basically shipping this in all channels. Now, this enhanced Bluetooth, there may be a little bit inventory out there in different channels where they're still with the older version. But this new version is basically it advertises every minute, or reconnection to the phone. So if you ever do lose connection over Bluetooth, it will advertise every five minutes. So it catches back up very quickly, we also enhanced the Bluetooth performance of the radio on the antenna. And so that antenna performance produces a longer range. Really excited about that. So those two kind of went together into the g7. We also have an updated adhesive patch that we're putting in, it's the same patch, it's on stello. And so that is cutting its way into g7, we'll be getting shipping in different channels over time here quickly. And so that that gives it enhanced, where time, in terms of just a little bit stickier, get you out to those that have challenges getting out to 10 and a half days with a patch this this should really help them just call

Scott Benner 22:09
the supplier and yell stickier. Is that how that works.

Jake Leach 22:15
So much that goes into adhesives, particularly around, you know, the durability of them, but also breathability and your potential irritations and irritants and things in there. There's a whole lot that we do before we make a change. And it's a project,

Scott Benner 22:31
is there a world where you'll get to a more sensitivity friendly adhesive that still holds on or does that technology just not exist? No, it

Jake Leach 22:40
does. I mean, we've we've overtime made quite a bit of enhancements, we did it on G six, where we actually had a patch that lasted longer, but also had less irritation than we did with the previous and G seven made another step where irritation was lower with G seven than it was with G six. And the studies we ran, particularly we actually ran studies in people that are you had known sensitivities to medical adhesive, just to better understand how much better g7 was. And so this new patch is even better than that. So it's it's a, you know, the technology continues to evolve. And so I think we're going to continue to see, you know, better technology, better adhesives, we're always, you know, trying to look for the best that's out there and develop it ourselves as well. And we're not stopping and we got to keep making these products, the best we can possibly produce. So

Scott Benner 23:30
I know you guys work hard, and I don't think you just mindlessly forget something.

Jake Leach 23:34
So when I asked you, how come I don't see direct to watch, or Where's delta change and stuff like that? How does that, like how do things get prioritized? I guess? Yeah, it's a great question. We can cover direct to watch too, because that's exciting news. Their main thing is we prioritize it based on user feedback and what we feel, you know, based on the product development team, what we're capable of producing and a certain amount of time, like how we spend our time, and what the prioritization based on user feedback is. And so, Director Watch has been a great example of something that has been highly desirable for a very long time. And we've been working on it at a very strong, dedicated team focused on developing that. And we finally got to the point where we're comfortable with that Apple ecosystem that when you switch to direct to watch mode, your sensor communicating directly to the Apple Watch, without the phone in the communication loop. We're very comfortable that you get all the glucose alerts you need to get because that has now taken over as your number, your main display device where you're getting those critical alerts. That has been what a big part of the journey over multiple years is getting the point where we are confident that that system will always produce those alerts when needed. I work closely with apple on it. They were really helpful in making changes to the Apple Watch operating system to be able to make this happen and We did submit that to the FDA last year. And we do plan to launch it here as soon as it's approved. So that should be coming very soon, based on what you just said, is

Scott Benner 25:07
it possible? I'll see it for stello? Before I see it for g7? Because they don't have the work? You know what I mean? Good. Good. Good

Jake Leach 25:15
question there, Scott. We're not given all the specifics out of bed stello At this point in time, but you'll see it on G seven very soon.

Scott Benner 25:21
If you say good question, I think I'm onto something, hey, this is directly from me and other people too. But nightstand mode now that Apple added that to the phone, like please, that would be amazing. What about delta ready to change and seeing the the last reading for followers like a lot of my stuff here is for for like caregivers, they want to know more about customizable alarms for like school nurses or people who only part time take care of other people with type one, you know, the delta is a big one for them. Basically, what they're saying is that the follow up when you're a caregiver, it shouldn't be different than the user app, because there's a lot of things you have to do and you're blind to those. In that situation, there's a pretty significant portfolio of updates we're going to make to follow. We you know, we've made some over time, but we have been primarily focused on G seven Dexcom, one and stello, getting the user apps updated, but an in built out. But follow is such an important part of our ecosystem for our users. And so I want to I've been pushing the team for more innovation in that area. And we are we have a portfolio of updates we're going to make, it includes a lot of the features that that had been asked for over time. And we'll put them out in order as fast as we can. But it is it is an area where I want us to innovate more. We have a couple of minutes left, and I have a couple of questions that I just know how you're going to answer them already. So I want to ask a bigger question. Is there an inflection point coming with CGM? Or is it just going to continue? Is it like an iPhone? Is it just gonna get a little better every time I get one? Or is there is there a leap to be had? In terms of like, features, performance?

Jake Leach 26:59
All of that? Yeah, I

Scott Benner 27:01
mean, more performance, like stuff, like, you know, listen, I love g7, my daughter, let me be clear, my daughter is at college right now with a 5.6 a one C, like, that's pretty cool. If you asked me to come over there and wash the windows, I'd be happy to do it. So like I'm happy. But first day couple of urgent lows that are fakes, you know, compression lows, you know, that kind of stuff? Like, is there a world where it's just one day? You know what I mean, when they sit around and talk about AI to ever watch a guy sit and talk who really understands it? And he's trying to tell you that 10 years from now, you are not going to understand the world anymore? Like, is there a Is that happening for CGM, in your mind, like in the future? Or is it more of a study as we go?

Jake Leach 27:42
I think so from a performance perspective, just on the accuracy and reliability of the products. There's still plenty of mileage to go. And you mentioned some of the variability on the first day, compression lows, you know, sensor, longevity, all of those things. It's interesting over the evolution of CGM, there's been, you know, big tech problems that we've tackled and solved, right. And those are some of the problems that you mentioned some challenges. That is something that we're very focused on. And you had a lot of very passionate excited team members about continuing to make the most accurate, the best CGM ever right. And so there's going to be more progression there. I think where you're going to see the most though like large step change function type of innovation in CGM is what we start doing with the CGM information, and how we start interacting with both physicians, caregivers and the users. I think that is where the user interface what you're looking at with G seven today is going to be extremely different. You know, as the years go on, and we you know, we're going to continue to launch new platforms, we've got G seven just recently launched, but you know, obviously, GA is well underway. And so those are some of the innovations we're gonna see. It's just, it's, it's really exciting what we can do now that we have, you know, mobile platforms, mobile phones are pretty ubiquitous, and the computing power, and then you got aI starting to come in and you start to think about how one of the things I talked about CES was just the conversational nature of the data presentation to say a physician, helping them get down to the most important thing to discuss with a particular patient could be easily short circuited if you could just rapid fire answer their questions in a conversational format for a particular user based on their real that users data. Yeah, I think it's pretty exciting.

Scott Benner 29:32
Check two things are we talking about? Like I was at this pizza joint last week, you remember last week and when eat the same thing again? Let's go like that kind of stuff. That kind of stuff. Yeah. And I don't think I've ever said this out loud on the podcast, but I've been logging the podcast into an an AI bot, and 1000 hours worth of conversations about diabetes. You would be stunned at how accurately li it answers. So, like granular questions about diabetes, it's really I can't wait like, and I know you guys have been at this for a long time. Like, I know, I have the the honor of kind of seeing the big picture. Like, I remember the first time Kevin said to me, I don't have diabetes, but I were CGM, and I don't eat potatoes anymore. And now look where we are. You know what I mean? Like, like, really like now people with type two diabetes. My brother's a great example. He's already told me, I wear that thing. And I thought, I thought that was good for me. I didn't realize what it was doing to me in the background. And that's, man, that's gotta be eight years ago that he said that to me. You know, so I know people need to be patient. But I remember when you guys started looking at data, and I thought they're gonna do something with that one day. So like, I mean, like, you know, you're not gonna retire soon. Are you Jake? How are you? Good. Okay, all right. Yeah, no,

Jake Leach 30:48
thank you. So this is my 20th year at Dexcom. But I'm not going anywhere. We

Scott Benner 30:51
got a good succession plan that the guy under you knows what he's doing. Yeah. Oh,

Jake Leach 30:55
yeah. Oh, great team. Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Benner 30:57
I don't want the ball getting dropped here. You know, when you decide it's time, you know, I'm sorry. I really appreciate this. I should have you back on more frequently. We haven't done this nearly enough. This we should have. So thank you very much.

Jake Leach 31:09
It was great. Scott really enjoyed your time take care.

Scott Benner 31:20
Huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice box. This is where we get our diabetes supplies from you can as well use the link or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. Having an easy to use and accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away. Contour next one.com/juicebox That's right. Today's episode is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter.

Once there was a time when I just told people if you want a low and stable a one C, just listen to the Juicebox Podcast. But as the years went on, and the podcast episodes grew, it became more and more difficult for people to listen to everyone. So I made the diabetes Pro Tip series. This series is with me and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a Certified diabetes Care and Education Specialist. She's also a registered and licensed dietitian and a type one herself for over 30 years and I of course, am the father of a child who was diagnosed at age two in 2006. The Pro Tip series begins at episode 210 with an episode called newly diagnosed are starting over and from there all about MDI Pre-Bolus Singh insulin pumping, pumping and nudging variables exercise illness, injury surgeries glucagon long term health bumping and nudging how to explain type one to your family. Postpartum honeymoon transitioning all about insulin Temp, Basal. These are all different episodes, setting your Basal insulin, fat and protein pregnancy, the glycemic index and load and so much more like female hormones and weight loss. Head now to juicebox podcast.com. Go up in the menu at the top and click on diabetes pro tip. Or if you're in the private Facebook group, there's a list of these episodes right in the feature tab. Find out how I helped keep my daughter's a one C between five two and six two for the last 10 years without diet restrictions juicebox podcast.com Start listening today. It's absolutely free. You can use the same continuous glucose monitor that Arden uses. All you have to do is go to dexcom.com/juice box and get started today. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1133 Put me in Coach

Troy has type 1 diabetes and was a college athlete.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1133 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Troy is 27 years old he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at age 13. He played baseball in college, some basketball, but eventually hurt his knee tore his ACL. We're going to talk all about that talk about rehabbing the difficulties of rehabbing injuries, and I share some remembrances of what it's like to have a child who's a college athlete. While you're listening today. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. When you use my link and place your first order you're gonna get a welcome kit, a year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox My name

Troy 2:00
is Troy Tucci. I am 27 years old and I have been a diabetic since I was 13 years old. So 2009

Scott Benner 2:07
Thank God you said your last name. Here's why. All last night Arden goes any chance you're talking to a relative of Stanley Stanley Tucci. And I said, if the person doesn't say their last name, I won't be able to ask them while we're recording.

Troy 2:20
I get that quite a bit. Let's because he's delightful. Yeah, he's great. I mean, I wish there was relation, then I would probably be able to afford a lot more medicine than I can currently. But you know, that's

Scott Benner 2:31
right. Yeah, I would. I mean, hope so. Although he did that CNN show. To me, it felt like a money grab. But

Troy 2:38
whatever. That's how it usually is with with Hollywood, in my opinion. But hey, people

Scott Benner 2:42
still like it. Listen, you get an opportunity to do something. I guess what the hell go to a couple places to eat a couple of meals make some money? I mean, would you turn it down?

Troy 2:52
No, not at all. I would love to eat food for free and make money off at the same time.

Scott Benner 2:56
So all right. So fair enough. Let's see. 2027 I was so excited. You said to chi out loud. I didn't hear how long you've had diabetes.

Troy 3:09
I have had it since I was 13 years old. So working another son 14 years so a little bit longer living with it than I have been with.

Scott Benner 3:18
Without it. You said a weird thing.

Troy 3:21
What are your living people say that along with it?

Scott Benner 3:24
Yeah, without it? Yeah.

Troy 3:26
It's not really a weird thing. I would say it's just different because I don't really know life before it. You don't remember? Not really. I mean, I my girlfriend likes to think I have a terrible memory in general. But I like to think that I couldn't really remember much other than being able to eat what I wanted. But I could still do that now. So

Scott Benner 3:44
yeah, listen, I have to tell you, I think it's a boy thing too. Like my son's just like, I don't know, do you remember any of that? Like, like, even like I said something really kind of, like, heartfelt to my son. I don't know, six months ago. And something happened the other day. And I brought it up and he goes, I don't remember you saying that. I was like, okay.

Troy 4:06
Yeah, it's it can be that way. Sometimes. I don't know. It could be a guy thing.

Scott Benner 4:10
It's also why boys don't seem to hold grudges. Yeah, that's true.

Troy 4:14
I would say that. That's very true. Because that that has happened and experience. I can't really hold a grudge or if I'm mad at somebody for something. It doesn't last long. It can be like terrible, too. I mean,

Scott Benner 4:25
Oh, for sure. No, no, I just one of my favorite things is the watchmen. Like, almost beat each other to death. And then like three days later, they're like out together. Yeah, of course,

Troy 4:35
or I've seen it in cases where people will fight each other and then they'll like pick each other back up and be like, Alright, man, good stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:41
sorry. Sorry, that had to happen. Right? Yeah. Anyway, so you do not remember much about being diagnosed.

Troy 4:51
Oh, I remember being diagnosed like I that's probably like the most vivid, you know, good memory that I have. So I was I it's Pretty weird thing. So my parents divorced right before this too. So it was kind of like bang, bang, like, right one after the other. My I was having symptoms, I was drinking a lot of fluids, I was probably going through a 24 case of Gatorade in a couple days. And I was also playing sports at the time, too. So like, my parents just thought it was nothing at first than they thought it was a UTI. You know, and obviously, I was having issues wetting the bed at 13 years old, and that's pretty uncommon. So I was having that issue. And they were like, alright, well, we're gonna go schedule you for a doctor's appointment. And they were like, I think it's UTI. And I was like, I'm 13 I don't even know what the hell that is. Anyways, so I go there, and I don't go with my parents. So I have a, like a housekeeper slash nanny at the time, because I had a younger sister as well, that needed to be tended to Yeah. And so she took me to the appointment. And I go and the, you know, the doctor is like, Alright, we're gonna have you just, you know, do a urine sample. Did a urine sample he comes in, he's like, alright, well, Troy, you have you have diabetes. And I'm like, okay, like, what is that? And how do I get rid of it? Yeah. And then he like pulls, it pulls up a seat, and he's like, alright, well, here's what you're gonna need to do. He's like, I don't want to give you too much information now. But I want you to go home, gather your stuff. I already talked to your parents. They're already both on their way home. And you know, you're gonna go check into the hospital. And I was like, okay, to get rid of diabetes. And obviously, I'm freaking out. No idea what's going on Toronto,

Scott Benner 6:19
I got to stop. You're here for a second. I just had surgery on my foot. And I realized I need to put it up, or I'm not going to be able to do this. So there's going to be some noise. Hold on a second. Do your thing.

Troy 6:29
I know all about surgeries. You'll hear too. I

Scott Benner 6:30
apologize. Give me a second here. We're gonna move the mic. It throbs a little Troy. Okay. So that heartbeat Oh, it's just I thought it'll be fine today. And I'm sitting there, you're talking. I'm like, Oh, this isn't gonna work. So two things I love. You're like, I don't know what a UTI is. And I don't know what diabetes is. So what do we do? Because all of your illnesses prior to this have been something you go to a doctor for. They clear it up somehow. Interesting. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh,

Troy 7:00
you're good. What happened by the way, we're having your foot

Scott Benner 7:03
Troy. So I'm old. You won't know about this for another 15 years or so. But I woke up one day, and my big toe on my right foot hurt terribly. And my wife, of course, says What did you do to it? I have no recollection of injuring my toe. And I thought it'll go away. And then a few days went by and it was getting, like no better. I thought, I mean, did I break my toe? Maybe? And I thought, Well, if that happened, what are they gonna do? I go to a doctor, they're gonna say your toes broken, and they're gonna say it'll heal. So I didn't do anything. And then a couple of weeks, turned into a couple of months. And it got worse. And, you know, I started limping. I was like, oh, man, there's something really wrong with my toe. I should do something about that. But my mom was sick. And I, you know, I didn't do like gets in the way. Yeah. And then every once in a while, it didn't hurt. I was like, hey, that hurt today. I'm good. But then when it hurt, it hurt really terribly, and I couldn't walk, it wouldn't bend up, etc. So finally, a couple of months ago, I got it in my head. I was like, I have to do something about this. But then my mom got sicker and sicker. And eventually she passed away. And I appreciate you're very nice. And so I'm out visiting with her towards the end of her life, and I slipped in a hotel. It's the soft water. It Do you have soft or hard water? Where you live? Do you? Would you even know? I'm not really sure what you mean. I know you don't. Right. It's meant that there's only one time here a couple of times water, right. But you'd also didn't know what a UTI was. So I have to explain. So there's minerals in water different in different Oh, it's like water softener types. Yes. Okay. In some places, people don't know probably don't even realize it if they live there. But if you come into a place that has softer water, and now I'm just saying water a lot for the people who enjoy hearing me say it incorrectly. Me included. Yeah. So if you when you get in the shower, it actually you feel soapy, or slimy when it's on, and it's slippery. And I guess people who live there don't even know anyway, I'm in a hotel shower. I'm literally making peace with the fact that I'm not going to see my mom again. I'm getting a shower getting ready to go to the airport. And my foot slips. Like I wasn't falling like Bugs Bunny or something like it just slipped forward a little bit. And it smacked into the side of this tub. And lightning and fireworks went off in my foot that shot up my leg into my brain. And I was in a massive bad way. I had to take a handful of painkillers to get through the airport to get on the plane to get home. And so I'm basically I can't walk. My brother is in the airport just laughing at me. He's like, look at how slow you're moving. And I'm like, I know he's like, we wouldn't need a nice scooter for you and I'm like, I'll be okay. Anyway, I get home my mom passed away a couple days later. That throws me off again for a few more weeks and I finally go to a doctor's appointment. But I go to urgent care first because I'm a boy and I'm still thinking maybe it's not that bad. And you know, and she does an x ray. So you just have a little bone chip here. And I was like, oh, cool, she because I think it's just free floating. It's sitting in the joint probably causing you pain. I'm like, This is excellent. I'm gonna go to a doctor, they're gonna pull up this little bone joint chip out and be fine. So I get there. And the real doctor, not that well. Yeah, I mean, that the real doctor. I mean, if you if you're working in urgent care, I know you're a doctor calm down. But, but um, you know, he, he's like, manipulating my toe. And he goes, this doesn't hurt, right? And he bends it a certain way. I go, No, that doesn't hurt at all. That way squeezes us doesn't hurt here does it? And it was almost like he knew where it wasn't going to hurt. I wasn't. I wasn't catching on quickly enough, though, is waiting for it. Yeah, just tell me if this hurts, and he bends my toe up. And then the rockets red glare happened again. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, man. Stop. Like, What? What? What? He goes, Yeah, I thought that was horrible. What did we do it for that? Yeah, like, so. He goes, you have arthritis. We need an X ray. And I said, Dude, I brought you an x ray. And he goes out again another x ray. I'm like,

Troy 11:04
Yeah, we don't trust other doctors X rays. And he

Scott Benner 11:07
wants to charge me for an x ray. But that's fine. Whatever. So does an x ray. I have a delightful back and forth with the X ray tech that is not politically correct. So I can't tell you about on the podcast. And it was one his side not mine, by the way for all you listen to think Oh, Scott said something horrible, wasn't me. And anyway, so I go back in and he and he sets up a surgery for me like boom in a week. And they give me the Jackson juice and put me out and I want to shout out to the anesthesiologist who I said last time I had, you know, Jackson juice, the propofol just turned you off. You know how Michael Jackson died? Yeah, okay. So I'm getting that. And it burns like, crazy. I'm just cursed. That's how much it burns. They put it like in the top of your hand, you can feel it like hot lava going up your arm into your chest and you pass out and you wake up and everything's fine. So I say to this to the anesthesiologist, this happened to me last time, and he goes, I know how to stop that from happening. I'm not it's not going to happen. So I was like, God bless you. So he did that didn't burn really cool. For people wondering he put lidocaine in first to kind of like, I guess numb the pathway that the medication was gonna go on. And then he squeezed my shoulder at my forearm and like at my, at my bicep, and held the lidocaine in my arm for a couple of minutes before we put in the propofol, but pretty cool. So I wake up, I feel fine. I'm like, This is it. Everything's fine. And the guy says to me, calls me later that night, he goes, how you feel? And I go, it hurts. And I got my foot up. And he goes, Okay, cool. Listen, wasn't really arthritis. And I went, why did he go see me? There's a little bit your joint because I cleaned it out and all it goes, but you have like torn cartilage in your toe. And I was like, what? And he goes, Yeah, it's not good. I had to give you a microfracture procedure. And I'm like, wait, what?

Troy 12:55
He goes, Wait till the whole night to tell you what he even did do. Probably

Scott Benner 13:00
after dinner. I mean, you probably went out in the afternoon, right? Had an ash went home. Yeah, he loved his wife. I don't know what he does in the day. You know, they mean and then he gets home he makes his calls is and by the way seems like a lovely man. I don't assume he's cheating on you. So basically, they poked holes in the bone to try to spur cartilage growth, but it's not the cartilage that I lost. It'll be something called like fibrous cartilage. And if that doesn't work, I have to go back to talk to him about having the bones in my toe fused together. Geez, yeah, Troy?

Troy 13:34
Is it your Are you a righty or lefty. If you

Scott Benner 13:38
take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G voc hypo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store G vo Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G vo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information.

Troy 14:50
Well I'm right handed Are you is that you're right you're right big toe

Scott Benner 14:54
it is does that matter? What do you know?

Troy 14:57
Do we just know I mean I just know for My experience of playing sports and like my injuries like I had a big toe issue in my back right foot from swinging so like from like taking like such hard hacks and like, however the case it was I like sprained my toe and ended up obviously not doing anything for it because I'm a guy. Yeah. And yeah, so that's that's just why I asked. I was just curious just because I can kind of see some correlation that or if you're just dominant in that regard, like I, I do a lot of things with my right foot over my left foot. Like I, that's like the first step I take, and I'm not really conscious of it. But

Scott Benner 15:30
how about that ice? I haven't thought about that. I can tell you that. I'm walking oddly, it's making my knee hurt. You know, it sucks. It's outside of your knee that's bothering you. It's the inside but insides where I just had my knee cleaned out like six months ago. So I'm a little light on cartilage in there, too. Yeah,

Troy 15:48
try not to compensate. That's the biggest thing. And I can tell you because I've been there done that. It just cause a different problem, right? Yep, exactly. Yeah. Just moving around the other side. All right. So anyway, this

Scott Benner 15:59
is what happened to me. I mean, obviously, this is my mom's fault. So now, it's I don't know what happened. It's just terrible. Now I hear Yeah, yeah, it is terrible. Anyway, it's such a it seems like such a small thing, but it messes you. Like a toe really messes you up. So

Troy 16:16
Oh, yeah. They say you can't walk without your big toe. Yeah,

Scott Benner 16:20
I don't need that problem. I'm losing weight. Now. Troy, here you

Troy 16:23
go. So then it should be easier than this, then you're putting less stress on the body while

Scott Benner 16:27
so you're thinking like that. I'm just thinking I'm about to be like, you know, I'm gonna have a coming out party soon. I don't want to be lengthened.

Troy 16:35
Anyway, coming out party can be perceived in a couple of different ways. Can

Scott Benner 16:38
I have a weight loss? Kingson Tara, can I would that be? That'd be is a cultural appropriation. I just wanna have a big party where I wear or something pretty good people can see. I

Troy 16:50
think that people do that all the time. I don't see why you couldn't. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna just make sure you invite me since I'm we're planning it together right now. Yeah,

Scott Benner 16:58
I'm almost down. 30 pounds. Wow, that's actually very impressive. Pretty cool. Excellent.

Troy 17:03
Are you taking anything for that? Or Oh, hell

Scott Benner 17:05
yeah. Yeah, I'm doing cocaine. And I'm using we go V. Which is a club we go V, which is ozempic rebranded for weight loss. Okay. Yeah. So it's a once weekly injectable. And I've been on it for 16 or 17 weeks. Okay. It's insane how well it works. I lost two more pounds this week.

Troy 17:28
So I wish I had that problem, I have the problem of losing weight and fluctuating weight and not being able to gain it. I had my entire playing career in sports to was hard

Scott Benner 17:37
for you to put on weight. It was impossible. So So tell me so you're diagnosed when you're 13 or so. And you're a baseball player, even as I listen, you played in college, so you must have been playing your whole life. Right?

Troy 17:48
So that's a funny story. So I played baseball and basketball, my whole life growing up for as long as I can remember, both baseball and basketball it you know, I don't know if they can consider being four years old and playing sports. I don't know if that's organized enough to be considered. But I played my whole life. But I actually took off six years of baseball. So I stopped playing my sophomore year in high school, had a bunch of injuries. And then my dad kind of sat me down and was like, Hey, you got to make a decision here. Do you want to keep playing basketball? Or do you want to keep playing baseball, and then obviously, I'm gonna listen to my father. And he's like, play basketball, play basketball. So I'm like, okay, the fact that he told me to do that, and then I took six years off just strictly playing basketball, and then tore both my ACL is playing basketball. Oh, you're a year apart from one another. So the first one was 2014, literally the day before my regional finals game in high school, and then crossed the stage, then got surgery in the summer, rehabbed for nine months, went to a school in Minnesota, turned my other ACL on the first captain's practice. And then went home and got surgery and then kind of started over went to junior college. And then that's when I picked up playing baseball once again, after six years.

Scott Benner 18:53
Can you talk a little bit about what it's like to put so much effort into something and then have a mechanical problem? Stop it? Oh, it's

Troy 19:01
really hits really tough. That's what I experienced the most. Just like, you know, the darkest days, I would say, the first time was really hard, but obviously doing it again, and having to go through that rehab of nine months was just draining physically, mentally, emotionally. That's fine when I fell into like, the deepest depression of my life, but obviously, you know, I wouldn't change it for the world because I ended up playing baseball again, and meeting tons of great people. And, you know, that sort of thing. Obviously, I didn't want to change my path at all. Yeah.

Scott Benner 19:32
I think that one of the most difficult parenting moments I've ever had, was sitting next to my son in a surgeon's office. When the guy was reading his report his report from his elbow, and he said, this is there's a partial tear in there. And that word, yeah. And I like I have to tell I'm being serious like not crying. was one of the hardest things I've ever done as a parent. Like, I didn't want him to see me.

Troy 20:05
Yeah, you have to show it, you have to make it seem like it's kind of nothing. And I

Scott Benner 20:09
don't know what my face read. But it was one of the hardest things I've ever done was to like compete myself composed. And it's not because of people listening who don't play sports or whatever might think like, that's silly. Like he's fine. You know, like, he just can't throw a ball anymore. But that kid started playing baseball, like organized baseball when he was four. And he did it. He did it constantly and forever. And it meant a lot to him. And he was in college playing baseball COVID had already happened and screwed everything up. And he didn't even let COVID mess up. He just went and train privately somewhere else and kept going. And at the moment this happened to him. He was throwing a fairly consistent 93 mile an hour fastball. Yeah, and then this happened. And you have to shut it down. And they tell you, you're going to rehab it and the rehabs like six months, and it's very specific. And he did it, like he did it dutifully. He did come back from it. But he just like, there was a couple miles an hour off. And while he was still like in the 90s, but it was more like 91. And he's trying to work through it. But as he's trying to work through it times ticking away too. And schools ending and his opportunities to play baseball are are getting shorter and shorter. And he's also playing in the field and like, yeah, he's trying to do these things. It just was like, I don't know that anything ever would have come of it. Generally, I'm saying like it just Yeah, it's not the point. Like I think people think oh, like you think you're going to be a professional baseball. It has nothing to do with that. It really doesn't. Yeah, it's about for some people. My son is one of them. You might be too. It's about goal setting and achieving. And then resetting goals and re achieve. Yeah, exactly. That's just how he got to where he was. He was always just setting goals and trying to get to them. Yeah.

Troy 22:02
And you can't take that drive away from people like that's just like someone, for example. Like I mean, to put it out of the context of sports like that's like someone growing up just absolutely loving reading or loving screen player, or acting or whatever. And then 1015 years later, after doing it your entire life and only knowing that you're told you can't do it anymore.

Scott Benner 22:22
Yeah. And it's got nothing to do with your intention or your desire or your workout. Right. Right. Yeah, it's really it's, I mean, not that it's not a thing everybody understands or doesn't understand. It's just, I mean, it's not specific to people who play sports. But I mean, it wouldn't have been any different. If I was in a room and somebody would have said to Arden, you can't follow the stream, you know, whatever it is. And I would have, I would have had the same like reaction. It was really terrible. And he Well, let me ask you like, so you go, should you switch back? I mean, you mess up both your legs. That's crazy. And so basketball, the beating of basketball that's over. So is that what makes you go back to baseball?

Troy 23:03
Actually, I decided when I was getting my surgery, like I could have kept my scholarship was and it was an academic scholarship and a small school in Minnesota, but I decided to give it back and come back home and get my surgery because everyone, I'd only been there eight days. And I didn't know anybody. I was already depressed as all hell, you know, wanted to go home and be around my family. So got surgery, and then rehabbed again for nine more months and decided that I was just going to start over from square one and play basketball at a junior college. So I went to the local junior college near my home at the time and play basketball again and played a season. I just didn't it wasn't the same, I couldn't move the same. I was a very like quick, witty, like fast assist first point guard. And it just didn't work out anymore. For me, I was scared to drive the lane, because that's how it happened twice. One of them came from non contact, the other one was contact coming down from a rebound. So I just wanted nothing to do with the paint. So after that I started you know, that was actually in 2015. When the cubs were kind of making a run in the playoffs the first year before they ended up winning it the following year. And that just kind of brought back a lot of emotion with baseball. And so I was like, You know what, I'm at a junior college can't get much lower than this. I heard that the baseball coach really takes anybody who doesn't cut players you just might not play but you can be part of the team you know. So I decided to do that I sucked for a year and then ended up just sticking with baseball playing the whole entire summer and just trying to get back into that and then earn a starting spot in my junior college team the following season. actually played a couple of games for pet for the basketball coach because he he needed some extra players and he was my teacher for one of my classes so I played a couple games basketball and then strictly played baseball after that and then ended up going to a division three school kind of an hour away or so from my house.

Scott Benner 24:47
Good for you. That's that's really that's hard work. And then a lot of not giving up. Are you like that and other parts of your life that not giving apart?

Troy 24:56
Yeah, I would say that I am I mean, I don't really know I mean up until A couple of years ago, when I graduated, I didn't really know anything else besides sports. But academic wise, I mean, I was never a kid that really cared about grades or school in high school, and then went full circle when I got to college. But Coach kind of told me, Hey, to earn a spot on the field, you got to be good. But also you need to have your grades up, otherwise, you won't see the field the court anywhere. Yeah. And that's when I really honed in and I ended up finishing, I think I finished for like a 394 GPA. I went to school for exercise science, because of having so many injuries and torn ligaments and muscles and surgeries, and you name it, I just want to understand the body a little bit more and kind of being a diabetic kind of helps that because you learned about a little bit with the body and the endocrine system and all the other systems of the body throughout that too.

Scott Benner 25:44
Are you doing that for a living now?

Troy 25:46
I'm not No, not even close. Wow. Well,

Scott Benner 25:48
so you ended up with that degree. But what did you end up doing?

Troy 25:51
So I did after I graduated, I ended up starting my own LLC and doing baseball lessons, softball lessons, strengthing auditioning classes, that sort of thing. And I really loved it. But I did that to make ends, you know, I and I started to kind of drain from that just just within a year. You know, I love the kids. And I love giving back because I had coaches that kind of did the same for me. But I just didn't want to do it for the dollar. I wanted to do it because I, you know, really enjoyed working with kids. And you know, trying to help them grow and see them succeed is just just kind of made me happy. Okay. And so I was working in a couple of facilities had my own thing I was doing kind of bouncing around renting out fields and that sort of thing. And then my girlfriend and I actually decided to get away from our hometown in Illinois, and moved out to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, in December of last year. So just kind of came out here. I was doing customer service for like a sporting goods company that I was at before, right. And I was able to do that remote and kind of keep that job throughout the move. But now I actually found a job doing in home sales out here. So it gets me out of the house gets me to meet people. And I'm driving around and exploring and getting to know the

Scott Benner 27:02
area. Yeah, hustler a little bit. You're moving truck trying to Yeah. What is what is she doing your girlfriend? She

Troy 27:09
does. So she was a financial advisor for a company called doesn't really matter what your company is called. But so she was a financial advisor back home. And then we moved out here and she was able to move like home offices, if you will, I guess. So she's out here now. But she's not a financial adviser. She just working underneath a financial advisor now. Because I mean that I couldn't even tell you that that job just sounds so difficult and hard. And I mean, she's good at it. She's good at what she does. But she went to school for like actuarial math, and like she's really good with numbers. So she's kind of just helping them out over there. Now. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:43
my son played baseball with a guy in college who got out and sort of did what you did. And he decided he was going to be an agent. And he, like, found this one guy that he thought like nobody cared about. And he's like, I think this guy can do it. And that guy is pitching on a professional baseball team now. That's awesome. That's amazing. He's his agent. And he was able to go to a bigger agency and say, Look, I represent this guy, if you bring me in as a partner, I'll bring him with me. And he actually built that thing for himself like that. See, that's really cool. And that crazy. I just I thought that was such an amazing story. Honestly, it really is. Yeah. Well, appreciate you tell me about this. I want to talk a little more about before we move on. So I watched my son go through a transition when he realized that he was hurt. And that decision of like, am I going to like try to push through this and rehab it, and like, then go back and keep doing it. And he did it like he was six. I mean, honestly, the way he did the rehab was really, I was amazed by it. I took a lot of effort. Every day, it was difficult and painful at times, and there was no clear win in sight. Like just keep doing this thing. So that hopefully six months from now, when you go back to the doctor, they'll say, yeah, it's okay. Like, you know, and then you still don't know if it's going to explode five seconds later, one way or the other. That was really something like to watch him put that work in on something he didn't know could pay him back or not, I thought was really interesting. But

Troy 29:19
yeah, it's really just like the not like you don't really know, kind of, like the fear of the unknown or like, you don't know what's next, or what can possibly be you just kind of keep working towards one thing and hoping that it's going to Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:28
yeah, yeah. I mean, like, Listen, if you if you decide to put the effort in to build a house, you know, at the end, you'll live in the house. This whole thing was just like, I mean, it's hard to put into words like the amount of rehab that went into it, and specific exercises and specific care and all this stuff that he had to do every day. And then it was, you know, you weren't sure that it was going to pay you at all like, like, it was just really it was it was an arduous thing to go through. And then he went back and played his senior year and had a great year and it was it was wonderful like it all All that hard work paid off. He had that. Yeah, like the time of his life for a couple of months in his senior year during the season, right, like a great time. But he still was like, well, wants to apply it again and again and keep moving. And so he starts resetting his goals, but they've just been had been so much of you didn't live through COVID. But like these kids last, like a season for COVID. All

Troy 30:21
I did was to see yes, so I so I graduated at 25. I, my, my college career was very, oh, later because now Yeah, because of my surgery. So I was under the impression. Now, I don't know if this is true or not, don't quote me on this. But I was told that, you know, once I went to school full time, when once I took full 12 hours of credits, that my eligibility clock would start with the NCAA. So I was scared of that. So I was taking only part time classes, I was taking like 910 11 hours per semester while I was rehabbing so that I didn't start my clock. So I don't know if that helped or hurt me. But I was able to play I got a year back because of COVID. My that was probably my best season, which is unfortunate because I was doing so well. And I, you know, didn't meet my girlfriend at the time. So I was really trying to pursue playing professional baseball still. And 12 games into the season, we were having the best season that we could have had in our season actually ended in Florida on our spring trip in our last game and in our coach kind of brought us into a hotel like conference room and we all all 40 of us cried together like little kids that are teasing with over

Scott Benner 31:26
that's where colts ended in the same in Florida, that on a spring trip. It's possible we were at the same place. So yeah. And I remember the same thing. I remember the seniors Cole was a sophomore. I remember the seniors. The game ended, and the coach went out. I think it I think it was like partway through the game. They decided this was the last game. And and then and then we're going home. And the school had said they're going to cancel the season. And I watched like it's tough, like seniors in college. That look, I mean, especially athletes, they look like men, you know what I mean? And they're standing out in the field, hugging each other crying. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God, like, this is terrible. And then, you know, that whole season was gone. And then the following season, they did this abbreviated like, I don't know, 14 games season. So my son did the same thing you did. He didn't go back to preserve his eligibility. Okay. Yeah, he trained. Like he just trained in baseball, and went to classes remotely. And that he was able to do a similar thing, where he just like kind of took a little bit of a break. And that break kept him from his clock running for his NCAA clock. And yeah, then then he went back and had all this eligibility left and had like a really great, like, senior year. But then there was such a gap in his playing time that when he was trying to like keep playing people were like, well, you beat him play for a year. Now. He's like, nobody played for a year and a half. And they're like, Yeah, but you don't have stats, and we don't know you for that year and a half. And that ended up being an issue for him. So yeah, it was really upsetting. Honestly, it was terrible. But it really is. Yeah. But what I wanted to get to was, when you finally decide, I'm not doing this anymore. Were you able to make a clean cut with it? Or was that a process as well?

Troy 33:16
You know what, it's really funny that I was able to make such a clean cut, I played my whole life, my whole life was dedicated to basketball. Obviously, I had baseball in there from a lot of the time, you know, I played travel ball from like eight to 14 whenever it was in high school and did all that. But basketball is the main part of my life. And I actually transferred a couple different high schools sort of due to that, but also other reasons with my parents divorcing and that sort of thing. But mainly basketball, like I switched, I went to a whole new high school my senior year just to play basketball. So like to have that and then just choke totally, like, wipe it away and kind of be done with it. I think the hardest part for me was my dad not being accepting that I wanted to play baseball again. Like, he just knew that, you know, he had the feeling that he was, you know that I was a great basketball player and that he wanted me to keep playing. But he just couldn't accept the fact that I was done with basketball. And I think that was the hardest, the hardest, like, cut to have.

Scott Benner 34:11
I watched the the end of it for Cole took a couple of months. And it was like this slow realization like, Oh, that's not working out, or this isn't gonna line up. Like that kind of stuff. And I'm not sure about my at the end, though he was his arm was fine. I don't know what would have happened if he would have gotten to the end. That's good that he ended up healthy though. Yeah, I think that too, because I don't know he could have gone back and gotten hurt again or something and you know, would have been another rehab just to rehab just to use your arm and not to play baseball and all that stuff. So yeah. So the interesting spot where he, from my perspective, where he just lets it go. He was starting to look for jobs. And he was trying to find a job in a certain place because he thought I'm gonna go to this city. And I'm going to I'm going to keep training Like, I'll keep training as a pitcher. But I'll work at the same time like he was trying to figure out a way to support himself. And so he was looking for. So Cole has a study like a, I don't know how to put it. My son's degree is in quantitative econ. So it's like data and statistics and things like that. Yeah. And data analytics. Yeah. And he wants to work in baseball, like, like, Cole wants to be the general manager of a baseball team. Like, that's what he wants to he wants to make the decisions about, you know, who they use and who they get and stuff like that. And that's, yeah, and that's his goal, right? It's a big goal. It's hard. But so he's applying for all these jobs with Major League Baseball teams. And he's in the middle of a, these, these job applications aren't like you don't fill out a piece of paper and then go talk to somebody they give you projects to do on your own, they give you a very limited amount of time, and you have to come back with your work. So he's in the middle of doing a project for the Tampa Bay Rays. And he has to choose a Rule five position player and a Rule five, pitcher for them to, to consider. I don't know if people know what the Rule five draft is, it's not really important. But they're these kind of players who are kind of on the outside, they're probably minor leaguers. They're getting passed around like they're good players, but nobody really wants to commit to them. They're kind of on the fringes. If you're a Phillies fan, Shane victory no was a Rule five draft. Like he's one of the guys that came out of the Rule five draft and moved from one team to another and ended up being you know, take up an all star on a World Series team. So Cole's doing the date going through the data. And he's poring through the data. And he just kind of says to me, look at all these guys these pictures. And I was like, right, and he goes up there my size. They're my weight. They throw as hard as I do. And I'm like, right, and he goes, they're three years, four years older than me. I'm like, Okay. And he goes, No one cares about them. And I went, right, he goes, I'm not doing this anymore. He just like, like it just the data was in front of him. And it was like, it made sense to him. Like, I don't want to spend the next three years throwing this baseball to be in a situation where I'm on some lists where people are like, Hey, can you find anything good on this list? And he's like, I don't I don't want to put that kind of effort. If there's no, like reasonable, you know, way to get through it. Yeah, he's being realistic. Yeah. And he just like, boom, like, I just watched him let go over. It was really interesting. I was very proud of him. Because, like I said, at that point, he's 22, maybe. And he's still young. He's still young. He's, I mean, I can't. For years, I can't have a catch with my kid anymore. at a close distance, like the Biden, y'all gonna break your hand, you don't even know. It, just my thumb, like, like the pad of my thumb and my thumb gets sore and swollen. The ball makes a noise when it's coming through the air that is unnerving.

Troy 38:15
Like, Hey, we got it, maybe we gotta teach you how to catch that glove. Or maybe we got to get you with two in the pink two fingers in the pinky

Scott Benner 38:21
pocket I was doing that I was doing. I'm an old man. I'm just you had the glove pad on there, too. So I used to put a towel on my hand in my palm just to try to create more padding like anything. Like we had like torn up towels that like and I'm not like, I'll say this thing. I look at my kids. And my assumption is that my mailman is very attractive and athletic. So because I'm not, I've never been nearly as athletic as my kids are. And so it's that way, though. Yeah, I know. So I'm not out there, like all schlubby but I'm not. I'm not him. You know what I mean? So like, I'm out there trying to do this thing with him. He was still at that point when he decided to stop. But other things happen a boy in our town got drafted. And that brings his his spirits of New Orleans once you see that that makes you want to stay with it. The kid quit in like three months of being drafted. He got drafted and he was out like I think he did one minute like low a season and he was like, that's it I'm done.

Troy 39:25
I was a young was he did a good job that a high school or college out of college, you would think that he would actually stick around longer. I mean, some guys will get shelled, though. And then they'll just be like, Nope, this isn't for me. And it's better to make that decision early than spend six to 10 years in the league and then beat yourself. And then you get that one who's that dude from the A's it just got like he was in the league for like, last 13 years or something like that. And he finally got called up for a game and then got brought back down and then he like kind of goes back and forth. It's just I mean, it's a lifestyle. Like there's no I mean, yeah, it's a it's an absolute grind. You know, I have nothing but cred I have friends that are playing pro ball right now, you know nothing but love for all them. Yeah, it's just you've got to be willing to do it. And you got to be willing to kind of put your family and your career and life to the side. Yeah, while you chase this dream. And it just wasn't working out for me I was 25. When I graduated to former torn ACLs, seven broken bones, I ended up tearing my labrum on my left side right before my COVID senior year. And that's when I had to make that decision to either get surgery and not play or just play around it to play with the pain. I did it for a year already. I did it during COVID. And I had my best season. So I was like screw and I'm not gonna go into the knife and then potentially have it not be the same. So I might as well just keep playing with it. And I don't really deal with the issue much I just can't do certain shoulder exercises at the gym. But other than that, I'm good and I'm golfing a lot now.

Scott Benner 40:47
Were you able to go from swinging a bat this way a golf club?

Troy 40:50
I was but I didn't. I didn't touch a golf club until, like, the end end of my career. Like I didn't, I was so against it. And I know I know why. Because I ended up playing a season of softball over here with some friends. And it's just totally different. Like I can't even I can't even justify the

Scott Benner 41:09
two. Do you miss playing? Or do you miss camaraderie? Is there anything about it that you wish still existed for you? Oh, I

Troy 41:17
missed it all. I mean, I it took me a lot. You said it was easier. Like you asked about the clean cut with basketball, it was so much easier to cut basketball because I moved to baseball. But if I went just cold turkey kinda, you know, I think it would have been much tougher. Now after my playing career, I was still that's kind of why I think I started to dive into giving lessons because I didn't want to let go. I really haven't watched MLB baseball much that's I have an issue with the, you know, the emotions of umpires these days, and just kind of everything where the games going. And I think that some of the rules are good. But I just don't watch it as much as I used to. And as much as I would have liked to. I mean, I'm out in South Carolina, there's a de lo a Cubs team out here. That's the only only baseball there is. And I've gone to a couple games, but I just am not. I'm not into it as much as I was. But it definitely took a lot longer for me to get over it. As far as compared to basketball.

Scott Benner 42:08
Yeah. When my son was playing, he didn't. He didn't go to professional baseball games. He said he didn't he didn't like to watch people play baseball. He wanted to play baseball. Exactly.

Troy 42:17
Because I would just be itching out there. Yeah. And chances are I'm just chirping the guys out there and I have no room to talk.

Scott Benner 42:24
So how did you manage your diabetes through all of this the basketball, the baseball being away at college having injuries like how's that been for you?

Troy 42:34
It was a struggle for sure. But I mean, I was actually just having a conversation with my mom this morning, because I kind of wanted to know, kind of how it was like, did she like obviously I remember everything, but I just wanted to know from a different perspective. And she was like, Yeah, I never helped you with any of that. That was always all you you were very controlled with that I the only time she ever actually gave me an injection was in the hospital when they told her to. And they like were like training us. So I've always given myself my own shots and everything. But basically what happened was I was they didn't give me a pump for the first three, three and a half years of me being a diabetic. It was all just MDI injections and a meter, I was checking five to 10 times a day and taking up to 10 shots a day.

Scott Benner 43:19
And where's your like, a one CF during that time?

Troy 43:23
Oh, that was it was high. I was dying. When I was diagnosed, it was 12. And then I, it really hasn't been much. It was like around the 1011 Nine during that time. And then I got on Medtronic when I was in high school. And that was just brutal. I didn't like being connected like that, and just had so many issues. That was I think that was more when Medtronic was a little bit newer, at least I hope so because there was a lot of issues that I was having with them, whether the battery cap would come off and it wouldn't stay on or whatever the case was. And then I actually when I was in, like early in college, when I switched over to to baseball, I actually kept the pump on at times. And then there was one time in particular during summer ball when I kept it on and I hit a I ended up hitting like a triple that I stretched out. And then I kept my pump on I didn't even know I had my pump on until I was at third base. And I was like, I'll be fine. You know, I want it to slide into home. And I slid into home and I broke my pump. And it was just beeping at me like uncontrollably for like 15 minutes and I'm sitting. Luckily it's summer ball. So I was able to sit on the bench and let someone sub in for me while I was on the phone with Medtronic customer service trying to figure out how to turn off but during basketball, I would just take off the pump and that was I would run high a lot. So that was kind of an issue. And then after the Medtronic issue that I had, I just decided to go back to injections. So I was on the in pen for a while throughout college actually throughout like a lot of my playing career. And then I didn't get on the Omnipod dash until I finished playing baseball.

Scott Benner 44:58
Okay,

Troy 44:58
all right towards the end And I mean,

Scott Benner 45:00
higher a one sees and that kind of stuff like, is that a thing you learned after time? Like, did you again because I'm also hearing your parents got divorced as you're being diagnosed, right? So your mom's? Are you living with your mom? I

Troy 45:15
was living with my mom at the time. And then sort of like halfway through high school is startling with my dad. Okay,

Scott Benner 45:22
so that so that's there's some unstability there. So neither of them really are on top of the diabetes. They're letting it up to you. You're not doing a terrific job, obviously, because you're a kid. Correct. But you're keeping yourself moving. Where is it now, like, what have you learned over the years, taking care of your health isn't always easy, but it should at least be simple. That's why for the last three years, I've been drinking ag one every day, no exceptions. It's just one scoop mixed in water once a day every day, and it makes me feel energized and focused. That's because each serving of ag one delivers my daily dose of vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, and more. It's a powerful, healthy habit that's also powerfully simple. Before I was taking ag one, I would get that brain fog in the middle of the day, and I just couldn't seem to get on top of it. But now that doesn't happen anymore. By starting my day with ag one I found focus, and a renewed ability to perform at my highest level all day long. Drink ag one.com/juice box, when you use that link, you're supporting the production of the Juicebox Podcast, I drink age you want in the morning, but you could use it as a coffee replacement before a workout or in your smoothie. If there's one product, I had to recommend to elevate your health, it's ag one and that's why I've partnered with them for so long. So if you want to take ownership of your health, start with ag one, try ag one and get a free one year supply of vitamin D 3k. two and five, three ag one travel packs with your first purchase exclusively at drink ag one.com/juice box. That's drink ag one.com/juice box, check it out.

Troy 47:02
Omni pod is a lifesaver. That's what I've learned. Dexcom is also a lifesaver. I just it's just easier once I like once I stopped playing honestly, I hate to say it, my numbers got way better. But that's because I didn't have such a gruesome schedule. And you know, I'm I played Division Three baseball, I didn't play D one baseball where we're getting all this delicious, more healthy food delivered to us or made for us. We're stopping at gas stations on the way to and from games or McDonald's and I'm refusing to eat that. So that's really where it came from. But the the AutoSum, the automated system on the five is, is just next level. And it's just much easier. And because I think that my biggest problem was I usually don't eat early in the mornings, I'll usually fast till anywhere from like noon to two, three o'clock. And then I'll eat later at night. And I'm kind of more of a snack or later at night, if anything. And that's kind of when I would be running higher is later at night. And then throughout the middle the night I'm not awake, obviously to give myself insulin or to see where my levels are heading. And then that's where the five kind of nip to that and it's been great since.

Scott Benner 48:07
Wow. So how long have you been doing it? Part Five?

Troy 48:09
I started in June of 22. So June of last year, I think it was actually a little earlier than that because it came out. I think it was cleared by the FDA in like February or something. And I was waiting and waiting and waiting for that

Scott Benner 48:23
prior using dash, is that right? Okay, and then you go to the automated system. And how did you learn to settle

Troy 48:30
I had an endo that kind of set it up for me, based off of my dash settings a little bit like I don't think it was like correlated at all. I think she just kind of used what I had from my other settings and that sort of thing and kind of mess with it a little bit. And then actually, I saw that was around. Yeah, so it was last year. So then I ended up the last time I saw that doctor was in October last year. So I don't really I actually just got an agency yesterday out here, but I did it in urgent care. So it takes three days for it to come in. gotta send it out to a lab or whatever. So I don't have a current agency. But it was the lowest it's ever been rate when I jumped on it in June and it was 6.80. Man good for ya. I expect to be way lower. I mean, I'm not wanting to settle for anything, let alone that. But

Scott Benner 49:19
I mean, listen, that it's a long time for a little kid who's got all this other stuff going on that you've been gone over to try to like, you know, grow up, become an adult, realize that this needs more care and concern, figure out what that means. Actually put that stuff into practice. And to get to a six eight is really terrific. And you and are you thinking there's nothing and

Troy 49:42
it's lower already, but even I mean, I've had issues with insurance, so I haven't steadily been using Omnipod five like I wish I can. Now hopefully now that my insurance has kicked in with this new job. Hopefully it'll be fine and smooth sailing from here on out. Obviously that's not usually how it goes in the case of our diseases here. But, you know, I'm hoping for that. And I'm hoping that I can stick with him you had five and stay with the Dexcom. I don't really know about the G seven, obviously, because it doesn't have that set up with the five yet, but I'm cool with the G six now and you had five until the wheels fall off. You know

Scott Benner 50:17
what, when you don't have insurance coverage, what do you do? I'm

Troy 50:20
just going back to, you know, injections, which is tough because I haven't had really an endo since October. So I'm kind of just doing it. I'm just, you know, you're my endo at this point you in the Juicebox Podcast has been my Endo. And so it was myself just trial and error. It's just really that and I've just been doing injections. And then actually I've been kind of contacting Omnipod and Dexcom and getting replacements for ones that I've had in the past that I've never called in on and stuff like that. So I'm kind of sort of milking it a little bit,

Scott Benner 50:46
I guess. Okay. Well, Troy, when we're done, hold on for a second. Okay. Yeah, I might have a couple of things here I can send. I just I appreciate the conversation very much. Because I have this, you know, this personal connection to watching like, Forget sports, like it's not baseball, like, it's, it's watching kids move and transition through parts of their life. Like, that's the part that I'm I'm really amazed by, and I can see where the pitfalls could be. You know, where that stuff could go wrong? Where you could like, you know, you talked about feeling depressed for a while, around your injuries. I was worried about my son when he you know, I was like, what's going to happen? Like, I'm not saying he did something, or that I saw something that made me think, Oh, God, is he going to be okay? But you put so much effort into something. And for it to just like disappear. Right? And I don't know that that's any, you know, that that's that much different than I don't know, like waking up one day when you're 23. And having diabetes. Like, you know, like, there's this thing you've been doing an expectation you have is a path you're moving on. And then suddenly somebody just steps up and goes no over. You can't can't argue you can't fight you can't, you know, can't send in a form to try to get us to change our mind. This is just happening. Yeah. And you know, and it's, I mean, it's tough, man. Do you have brothers

Troy 52:19
and sisters? Yeah, I have an older brother. He's four years older than me and older sister who's two years older than me and a younger sister, who's five years younger than me.

Scott Benner 52:25
Were they any help through all this? Like, just comfort or?

Troy 52:30
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, my, my older sister is now a PA, she played basketball in college, she was actually one of the best national shooters I've ever seen. And I tell everybody that, but she, she kind of was a big role model for me for sports. And then she's a PA now, like I said, so she's, she knows she has a little bit of a grasp of kind of diabetes more than anybody else in my family. So that kind of helps a little bit. But other than that, I mean, even my mom says, she's like, Hey, listen, like even she told me this years ago to I remember, like, vividly. But her her and my dad both said like, hey, you know, obviously, we're really sorry that you got this. But if if it was going to be anybody in the family, we're glad it's you because you're able to handle it. And we know you can handle it and kind of do your thing. So

Scott Benner 53:14
is it funny, like that? The VA onesies? You talked about having earlier? We're talking about like it's being handled? Yeah. Like, do you know what I mean? Like it's, um, this is not uncommon. Hold on, I have to sit up, I have to move that the legs are falling asleep up there. So yeah. Sorry about that. Up there too long. This is not uncommon in these conversations, right? The idea that you're alive, and you're doing your insulin, so you're handling it. But your agencies, whatever it is, and it's not really being handled well. It's being I mean, handled. But how everyone is so comfortable saying, Oh, you had it, but you didn't happen. Exactly. And then they tell you, you can handle it. But did you know you couldn't handle it? Or did you think you were doing a good job? No,

Troy 54:07
I didn't think I could handle it at all. But I think that I was also that young kid that kind of was annoyed with my parents getting on my case about stuff and kind of would tell them that it's okay. Or tell them that it's good. And then they obviously just stopped kind of putting that effort forth.

Scott Benner 54:25
Yeah, I don't trust anybody. They told me it's good. Whether it's on this podcast or in my real life. I'm

Troy 54:30
like, Well, what's new and what's good, you know, it can be different from everybody but honestly, I think that I had a I had a really hard time with my Windows after I was diagnosed and even at like my, my pediatric endo was so mean to me that I would literally be so scared to go to the appointments and like, how did that happen? I don't know. I just like she would just like really, like lay into me. And it was like, she wouldn't put any like, blame or like kind of like get upset with my parents. at all, she would just get upset with me and like, she would just like, get really angry with me. And like, I was obviously an emotional kid at the time, my parents had just divorced, I didn't really have much, you know, parental supervision, and that and that sort of thing, or anyone kind of like helping me in a, in a sense of like, Hey, Troy, you should probably do this, you should check this, like, my mom was great at counting my carbs for me, and like cooking the meals and like making sure that I had the right numbers down and stuff like that for the most part. Or like, she would help me with like my low blood sugars and stuff like that. So it's not like they were like unfit parents in that regard. But obviously, diabetes is a different beast that you need to tame head on. And we just really didn't. So just butted heads with her and like, she would see my agencies and she would just think that I wasn't trying or wasn't doing anything. And obviously, I had the honeymoon phase, and I had all these different things going on. And she just didn't really give me the proper care. In my opinion, I wasn't getting changes in my numbers like I should have been. She was kind of just they were letting me coast. Like they didn't put me they refused to put me on a pump until my sugars got better, which I didn't think made any sense at all. But I was also 13 and thought that I knew everything at that time.

Scott Benner 56:09
Well, I agree with you. I mean, I don't if if it's a thing, you can't first of all, she's got to know your parents just got divorced, right? And you're young, and you're not doing well. And her answer to that is to say, well keep doing this till you figure it out. And you were scared to be exactly. Well, what the hell, man? That's not

Troy 56:30
good. Yeah. So I had some, some PTSD with with Endo, so bounced around to a couple I actually had, when I was younger, I was a very short kid, very, very short kid. So when I was diagnosed, my dad spoke to somebody, one of his friends or whatever, I guess, who was a basketball coach. And he was like, Hey, you should check out this foundation, down at Rush and Chicago. It's called the magic Foundation. And they basically will test you for like hormones and that sort of thing. So I ended up getting tests on my pituitary glands. And they it was like this whole nine hour test that they had to do with a bunch of bloodwork every few hours. And they found out that I wasn't producing enough like by any means, like I was very below the amount that I needed. So I started to take growth hormone therapy, and do that for a couple years too. So that was also affecting my sugar's a lot too. And they had, they were also acting as my Endo, too. And that lady was just even worse, it was just like, brutal, so bad.

Scott Benner 57:25
I wonder if I'm stretching you out. Lead

Troy 57:28
ACLs. I got I've had that same thought pounding in my head for years, because I was thinking that my dad was being a little greedy, trying to get me an extra couple inches in my height. And that's how I ended up tearing my ACL and having these injuries all over because of my body growing out of or my bones going too fast or growing more than they should have, or obviously, it's abnormal growing and that sort of thing. So I've definitely thought that myself, I just haven't confirmed it. Or, you know, I don't even know if I want to know if it's for sure. True or not, because I don't know how I feel.

Scott Benner 58:01
Yeah. Oh, you'd be? How tall were you before the procedure? So

Troy 58:05
I was, let's see, diagnose diagnosis, I was four foot nine. And I was 79 pounds. And I was at 13. And then going into high school, I was I was 411. going into my senior year, my freshman year high school. And I was and that was where I was five at graduation.

Scott Benner 58:25
Is your list, highlight reel on your baseball thing? Are you five? I

Troy 58:29
like to think I'm 511 my girlfriend thinks I'm not she thinks I'm like five, nine. But I would say I'm like 510 510 and a half. So

Scott Benner 58:36
this is so interesting. My son never lied about his height. And it's so common in Oh,

Troy 58:44
it's common in basketball to I the only reason why I did it is because all my other teammates lied, and I was taller than him and I was like, I'm not putting that I'm shorter than your dude, I'm two inches taller than you like, that's gonna look bad for scouting. So I would. So that's when I started to lie is when all my other teammates did. So I had to look like I had to look the part. So I'd always be an inch taller than the kids that I was actually taller than

Scott Benner 59:05
so that that really is we've had this conversation because my son's like, I'm not lying. I'm 511 just say I'm 511 and he actually is 511. And so, but other people around him are like I'm six one and he's like, I'm taller than you. It's like it would happen like everyone would pick a number that they thought somebody would be interested in. It's It's so fascinating. But anyway, it ended up hurting call sometimes, because when he said he was 511 people assumed he was five nine. Yeah.

Troy 59:35
It's like, a secret like with that. It's just so weird how that works.

Scott Benner 59:40
Yeah, listen, here's the secret. I'm gonna tell all of you because I've been through the whole thing now. When they see you they know. Exactly. Exactly.

Troy 59:49
So it's like what does it matter? I'm 511 with cleats on? I'm definitely 511 So that's why I was like cool. I'm gonna be wearing cleats most of the time.

Scott Benner 59:57
Well, that and that is another thing too is the big holes like I'm like six one in my shoe.

Troy 1:00:01
That's when you should put six. I'm not going to take they're gonna tell you to take your shoes off and measure your height at a at a combine or maybe in a combine they would, but like, at, like a showcase or whatever, however they do that.

Scott Benner 1:00:14
Yeah, it's interesting how people's minds work. So I think Cole's natural position is centerfield. Yep. And he and he has an affinity. I mean, he's old. Now. He probably said, I can't do that anymore. But like, he had an affinity for where the ball was, like he was he was always where the mom was. And so if you put a ball off a wall, he'd be standing there,

Troy 1:00:37
he knows where it's gonna, like ricochet. He knows where it's gonna bounce

Scott Benner 1:00:40
that like it's not a catchable like, like, keep in mind, it's not a catchable ball. And most people that I watched, the entire time he was doing this and recruiting and everything, most people would have been 1015 feet away from where the ball landed. But cold would almost catch those balls. And then he'd have it like, immediately get it back in I to see to tell you how many singles many guys how many elbows were held to singles. Yeah, how many triples were held the doubles? Like that kind of stuff. Isn't it's insane. But it but people don't see it that way. They see Oh, you got really close to the ball. He didn't catch up though. Yeah, right. And and so the ones that were catchable. He made look easy. And and the ones that were uncatchable, he was there, and he would impact the game properly. But an untrained eye would see it as Oh, why were you so close, but didn't catch the ball? And that it's a real thing. Like it was hard to play for people who understood the nuances of it. Yeah, it was really interesting. And so anyway, my point was, that people who knew would say to me, Oh, my God, how fast is he? What is he must run like, and they would say some crazy 60 times. Yeah.

Troy 1:01:50
What is What do you like to see? Or what was his 60? It

Scott Benner 1:01:54
was never like insane. People thought he was running like a six, three or a six, two. But he was always more like a six, six, still just. But he knew where the ball was Troy. Like he knew where it was going. He would move when the bat was being swung. Like he had a real, he's probably

Troy 1:02:13
a really good quick twitch. But also, even if you're running a 60, like no one, I saw the 60 doesn't really make sense because no one's ever running 60 yards in a straight line. And yeah, with him being that fast for a 60 he's able to get to spots so much faster than other kids because he can he knows not only does he know where it's going, but he can move. So he's gonna get there a lot quicker than an average person would. And that's what that's what helps a lot out there. And people don't realize that though.

Scott Benner 1:02:39
Yeah, no, but what but when people are measuring things, what they see is there's one kid it's always one short kid who runs like a six to 16 like some in that he's out there and his bare feet. Like, yeah, like he grew up in the jungle or something like, you know, and he's like, he's like, I don't even need shoes. I can do this. Kid flies, can't catch a baseball, terrible outfielder, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But look at the 60 That kid gets people pay attention to the unfortunate part about scouting. Yeah. And then once in a while, you get somebody who really knows what they're talking about. And I was, listen, we were at a summer game during COVID, maybe, because like, like, you know, while schools were shutting down, like real baseball players, were still playing baseball places like my son played more better baseball, because it COVID than he would have played if he was in college. And so we're at this field 111 Summer, that summer, I think. And this guy with a clipboard, he comes around to our side of the field, and he goes, whose son is wearing this number. And I was like, is the father of this kid here. And I was like, God, it's my son. And he comes over to me, and he goes, Hey, I'm here for the pitcher today on the other team. And I'm like, right, he goes, and he told me what team he was there for is there for he was a pro scout. And he said, Your son, I've been watching him he's like He grades is a professional outfield. Wow. And and I said, I know. Thank you. What do we do about that? He goes, I keep playing. It's literally how it went, like, I had a man stand in front of me and use the words your son grades out as a professional outfielder. And then when you ask them what to do next, they're like, yeah, just keep getting Stassi ups. And yeah, and it's all it's not. It's not the system isn't

Troy 1:04:27
nice. That's why it's it's part of the reason why I decided on to play professional baseball, but I was also 25 and broke broken.

Scott Benner 1:04:37
What my point is, is that is that they, they take the things that they can do. So if you're taller, good. If you're bigger, good. If you're super fast, good. These are things that minds can like absorb quickly. Like there's no one standing there except one guy one day. Luckily says things like, man, your son takes perfect routes to things. His arm is turret like I think what happened was that day the they were just they were on a team that was so good that got they would just run out to it because they didn't even play the same position the whole game because they were just they were so good, it didn't matter, they could go anywhere and play anywhere. So in one inning, cold moved from center to right. And someone hit a ball down the line, right down the right field line. I think there was someone on second. And no, no, excuse me, there was someone on third. And Cole caught the ball down the line in foul territory, I'm going to tell you probably 250 feet down the line in that space, going into the fence and call through the kid out trying to tag from third to go he's and caught the ball. But you know, obviously, so like, that's the kind of stuff he could do. And in the end, what he would tell me is I'm not tall enough,

Troy 1:05:58
they don't care. You know, today, look at all the other guys though.

Scott Benner 1:06:02
But it's always one guy, you're gonna be every every. Every generation, there's a three foot tall guy that plays professional baseball, he was the what was the is the guy before LTV was something tool whiskey or something like it's always ROI. Is that who I'm thinking of like, right, like, so there's always one. And you know that it's out today, and then it'll be another one. But but the point is, is that I don't know that my son could or could not have been a professional baseball player. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, based on his size. That was it for people, they were like, he's not that he's not tall. And then that would be kind of the end of it. And it was really it was, it's a hard way to live it really. And so I'm talking about this for people who are listening, because if your kids are going through this, my best advice at all, as Troy has in a second, my best advice is find a school where academically you fit really well. And that you could play baseball or your sport or whatever it is and go and have a good time. And if anything else comes of it, then that's a bonus. But if you're not a monster, or running like lightning, or something like that, you can't will yourself into the position you think you can will yourself into like it just doesn't have my son is a really skilled baseball player and it did not matter. Like in the end, it kind of didn't matter. You almost have to be lucky. Lucky, huge. No, yeah, it's

Troy 1:07:26
really about who you know, to honestly, I mean, I would say that the biggest thing is, don't waste your money on all these damn showcases, and all these different money grab events just to get you to think that your kid's gonna play somewhere. And I definitely agree with what you say. And to piggyback off that, go somewhere where you're gonna play. I don't know, I mean, unless you want to be that kid that to tell everyone Hey, I played at a division one university, or hey, I want I was on the baseball team in Division One University, I didn't play a single minute or a single inning or a single at bat. But I was there on the team. I just wasn't on the roster. You know, it's obviously personal preference and whatever kids want to do. But if you actually are pursuing college baseball in the next level, go somewhere you're going to play I was always trying to put off junior colleges and put off junior colleges because I thought that I was better than that. And I might have been sure but I it didn't end up panning out that way. And Junior College ended up saving my life and I think JUCO sports in general and just junior college in general, even if you're not playing sports is a great route because you're gonna save a ton of money and in the end.

Scott Benner 1:08:29
Yeah, so those things are very expensive. And it's like, it's like a slot machine. Like you're just putting in quarters and pulling, hoping that something happens right. And, and, and Cole had to moments, to moments like all this work that he put in and these things he go and play these showcases to make sure people can see him. So based on his baseball and his grades, he was approached by Penn. So Ivy League school, right? And the guy pulls me aside first to tell me oh my god, your son's amazing blah, blah, blah, he did this thing on. He was on an all purpose field. So they were playing this game on an all purpose field. So it didn't have a left field fence it had like a it had like a right field fence that kind of disappeared into nowhere. So this kid hit a homerun if the My point is that if the field had a fence, this was a homerun it would have been over the the centerfield fence but because there was no fence there to track down have to stop running. So he tracked it down and and caught the ball probably 425 feet into centerfield. And that was a bomb. Like it wasn't like a rocket like didn't me like it was up in the air for a while he was able to get to it. So he caught that ball. And then he threw a kid out at second trying to go from first to second. And Penn came over and he's talking to me. Tell me about your son's grades. What's he boom, he goes this kid's perfect for us. I'm gonna love him. and blah, blah, blah, like, you know, I'm going to talk to you guys after the game. Then cold like comes in pitches a couple of innings at the end of the game the guys like oh my god, you can pitch like ball ball like he's so it's super excited. And then cold walks in off the field and I say, Hey, this is I still remember the guy's name. And I was I'm not gonna say it here. But I was like, this is this guy thinks your you might be good for Penn and Cole, like lit up. He was like, Holy crap, like, I'm gonna get to go to school like close to my house and an Ivy League school and play baseball. And like, this is insane. And then the guy looks at him and goes, how tall are you? And my son goes, I'm 511. But I'm really 511. I swear I am. And he goes, Yeah, he goes, My guy is not going to put you out on the field at that height. And he was like, wait, what? And it just it stopped as quickly as it started. Yeah,

Troy 1:10:50
that's the only thing to showcase. It's just hard. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:10:54
by the way, this happened a second time. And I will call out that school to not call out but I'll name them. North Carolina. Can you imagine how excited I was the day that the Tarheels guy sat down next to me in a in a stadium and said, Hey, is that your son out and center? And I was like, yeah, he goes here. Your coach told me you are his father. He told me about his grades. And we sat there for 45 minutes talking about coal and his grades. And he's like, man, he's really good. And he's like, it's just very impressed. And blah, blah, blah. And he's, we're moving. And the game ends. I swear to you, same thing. Amen. My son comes over guy goes, Hey, how tall are you? Oh, holds like I'm 511. But I really am 511. Okay, gotta go see, yeah, my coaches are gonna let you play that,

Troy 1:11:36
right? See, that's just unbelievable. They're like, hey, what about a deal breaker? Like I do this better than your guy who's an inch taller than me. Nobody cares. Yep. It's unfortunate. That's what and that's what's tough. And that's why I say what I say about showcases, it's not knocking them at all, obviously, if there's some legit showcases going on, and great all power to you for helping these kids. But a lot of it is like the only way I'm sending my kid, I don't have any kids. The only way I'm sending my kid out there is if I know for sure that he's going to be one of the best there. And he's got this one thing that's gonna stand out as opposed to everybody else. He runs a six to 60 he hits the ball, however hard off the bat, he can throw the ball however far however hard, you know, I'm saying like, don't just send your kid to a showcase if he's not ready, either. Because once you show them to the world, that one time, it's there to stay and people are gonna judge him off of that one experience. That PVR report that showcase report that whatever it

Scott Benner 1:12:29
is, yeah. I think generally genuinely what we learned it was the North Carolina guy it did me in like, I was like, wait a minute, like, but why I'm pulling this pull in the slot machine. And cherries came up. And then the charities told me no, thank you. I was like, Wait, like, what? So he's he like literally, for all the time we spent together. As soon as he saw coal, and coal wasn't six, two, he like started to walk away from us. He's like, Oh, I'm sorry. And he started walking away. And I put my hand on his shoulder and I stopped him. And I go, Hey, man, I'm like, What do I do? I'm like, guys, like, you keep coming up to me and telling me that my son's a great baseball player. And then they're not interested because he's not tall enough. And he goes, Yeah, I would find like a school where you know that they do. So what we ended up doing as we started looking at like stat sheets for college. So we first pick colleges he wanted to go to, or that he fit really well in academically. And then we started looking at how tall were the players that started games in his position. And then we basically then targeted the teams that would put kids out there that were six feet tall ish. And then he would go to workouts where those coaches were. And as soon as called to that he had 18 offers to play college. I say that's really smart to call. Yeah, but that's how we ended up doing it. And then the bigger problem ended up being that during this, you know, this whole thing he kept growing. So by the time he was in college, he was 200 pounds and almost, you know, a little over 511. And like a real like adult like if Cole could have I think it was the extra weight. I think if he could have if he was 200 pounds and athletic, they would have ignored that he was 511. But he was back then he was like 171 65 He was still in high school. And then they looked at me and I was five, nine, I think they thought well, he's not going to get any bigger. And so yeah, it's just it's anyway, that's not my point. My point is not to tell you about my son's thing. My point is to tell you don't waste all your freakin time trying to jam your round peg into your square hole because it's going to cost you a lot of money and it's not going to end well. So for most of you that's all that's it. There's a lot of fun and I don't know that I even I'm not even I don't see it as wasted time. But, and I actually do think like to slice it all. way the disappointment. It makes you a resilient person or percent does. Yeah, yeah, if you can get through it, man, you are a resilient son of a bitch when you get out of this process, so great. So tell me a little bit about your goals, like you bounced, like, why are you not using your degree? That's my first question.

Troy 1:15:19
I honestly, I don't really know exactly what to do with it. I mean, I didn't I personally, when when you think about kinesiology and Exercise Science, you think, Oh, you want to be a physical therapist. And when I was in physical therapy, Scott, I just, that was just the lowest part of my life. And I just could see it in the, in my physical therapist, that it was just hard for him to get me. You know, it was hard for him to motivate me to do something for myself. And I just feel like when I was in college, I was like, You know what, I can't see myself doing this for other people, even though now I kind of can. I just don't know other careers that can make me a solid living with my degree without going and get my master's. And I've, my, my former coaches asked me to come back and be a GA and, you know, get my schooling paid for and that sort of thing. But I just, I don't know, I think the only way that I'm going back to school is if I'm playing sports, and I'm not good enough to play on the golf team right now.

Scott Benner 1:16:16
So, so you don't love school?

Troy 1:16:18
I don't I think it I love the, like the schedule of that. You know, I've had my whole life under a routine under scheduling, seeing the same people, you know, that sort of thing. I think I like that kind of community feeling. But I don't I don't love school. No.

Scott Benner 1:16:35
Okay, yeah, I My son doesn't love it either. Actually, there's I honestly think that if it wasn't for baseball, we would have had trouble getting him.

Troy 1:16:44
To codec. Yeah. by imagining both there. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:16:47
And, like, you know, I'm not bragging my son's degree is kind of impressive. And he's like, it's not a thing that he loves. He's just the thing he's good at math is a, it's the way his brain works. So he's good at it. But he doesn't love it. He wants to use it to do like I said, other than Yeah, it's fun to listen to him talk about baseball, he sees it for

Troy 1:17:11
how he sees it from an analytical standpoint. Does he like Moneyball?

Scott Benner 1:17:15
Oh, that movie? Yeah, he loves it. That's

Troy 1:17:16
where the game is nowadays. So like, when you're talking to me and telling me that like, oh, you know, they're they're writing you off because your son is an inch shorter than the average are this and that that's that's Moneyball in my head. I think that that's kind of where it's at is that, you know, it's all analytical now is that and there's not a lot of guys that can feel the game. And they're getting rid of a lot of scouts, that have actually been around the game for a while on that no baseball, and they know players. And it's going off of more of analytical now. Like,

Scott Benner 1:17:43
I think Cole believes that there's a blend that needs 100%.

Troy 1:17:47
Because I agree, I like the new wave of technology and that sort of thing. I think it's amazing. But it also is detrimental.

Scott Benner 1:17:55
Yeah, it's strange to watch a guy, like, stand on a baseball field that can't defensively play his position. But they've done a mathematical formula that tells them that he will prosper more at the plate than he'll fail in the field. And so his run differential will be okay, still,

Troy 1:18:13
like we're willing to take that risk. But we don't want to take a risk on a kid that's an inch shorter than we are used to.

Scott Benner 1:18:19
Yeah, and so I think there's part of like, I think that one of the things that Cole has going for him is that he does have that kind of math mind. But he literally is a baseball player. Like he he has a job now where he works in baseball. And I don't think I'm gonna say exactly where he works. But he said that the one of the things that stunned him when he got there was that he came in with a group of new hires. And he said, he goes, I'm the only athletic person out of all. And he was like, it was really weird. They all love sports. He's like, they, they love it. They know a ton about it, but none of them have played it ever. And he's like, in these are the people who are shaping the ideas. Like it's all theoretical to them. And I was like, that's really and he's actually moving up really quickly. And I do think it's because of the blend of his like, of his experience.

Troy 1:19:12
Yeah, and I hope so because that's I'd rather have someone like him moving up in the system than then someone that doesn't know you know, a quality at bat if it hit him in the face.

Scott Benner 1:19:23
What it takes, but it's it really is. I mean, I love it. Listen, I love watching baseball, but there are times I'm like, that's not a baseball player. That's a professional baseball player who's not a baseball player. Yeah, he's just a really athletic, there's

Troy 1:19:35
no the gamers, you can see the gamers and you can see the guys that have the IQ.

Scott Benner 1:19:40
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. It really is. Alright, well, Troy, what have we not talked?

Troy 1:19:43
I don't know. I mean, we've got I mean, there's a ton that we can talk about, but I got what else you got. I didn't really make notes for it. So I don't really I don't really well,

Scott Benner 1:19:52
I don't want to miss I can't I don't want to miss anything on your diabetes like like you're doing on the pod five now. You're letting it do its thing. thank you are you let me ask you a couple of questions about day to day on your one five stuff. Are you Pre-Bolus In your meals? Does that need to happen? Yes. Okay. Do you watch what you eat? Are you like a careful eater? Like a clean eater? What's your diet, like, I

Troy 1:20:17
would say I'm a clean eater. I was definitely a lot cleaner when I was in school and playing sports and, you know, on more of a diet, but with the help of my girlfriend, and she definitely wants me eating a lot better. She's kind of taken away a lot of the carbs that I'm used to eating, which isn't a problem good, bad or indifferent. I think you can do well with either, but I'd say I'm pretty standard. I eat maybe two solid meals a day, sometimes three. But like I said, I usually feel fast the most. The only thing that I'll really ever eat for breakfast is eggs. I won't really have any carbs or anything like that. Occasionally, I'll have some coffee. I, my girlfriend doesn't really like meat as much as I do. So I've been not eating as much red meat, as I'm used to. But a lot of chicken fish, a lot of greens, trying to at least eat a lot of greens.

Scott Benner 1:21:09
Oh, this girl is telling you what you like and getting you in healthy shape. Good for her.

Troy 1:21:12
She is great. Yeah, for sure. She should have she should be joining me on this podcast, because she would tell you, she'd probably put everything into her perspective, which is much worse in her eyes than in anyone else's eyes. I think she's a little dramatic. So

Scott Benner 1:21:25
I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you about that. But first, you know, your Minnesota came out for one of the only time she said oh, occasionally. Oh, occasionally.

Troy 1:21:31
I don't know from Minnesota though. No, no, no, no, it's all Midwest. So it's pretty close. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:21:38
it's all the same place for

Troy 1:21:42
everybody. And everybody out here knows that I'm not from here. So I don't even try to fake it. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 1:21:47
wait, you think she sees your health differently than you do it?

Troy 1:21:50
Yeah. Like she like, Okay, so just to put some perspective on it. Her father had pancreatic cancer and died a few years ago. So she obviously has, you know, that going on, but he was, you know, obviously, he had to check his blood sugar and do some things as if he were a diabetic because of his pancreas failing. So she knew kind of what his diet wasn't that sort of thing. And then she sees kind of how I eat, but she'll like tell me to, to not eat so much. But then she'll tell me that I'm skinny and I need to gain weight. So it's like kind of like a, you know, like a toss up. Really? I

Scott Benner 1:22:25
think they call that a double edged sword. Yeah, mixed. Yes. Yeah, I

Troy 1:22:28
guess there's a lot of mixed messages. I will say I won't say that. Like, she's like, super dramatic. But like, I like to eat popsicles every now and then. And they're sugar free popsicles, but they're still popsicles. You know what I'm saying? She's like, Troy, you don't need that. Like, just just don't eat those. And I'm like, but I want him. 27

Scott Benner 1:22:49
Just stop eating the popsicles, man. It's easy. I

Troy 1:22:50
know. Well, I've like made my own popsicles out of like, fruit and stuff like that. But it's still like, that's a ton of sugar. You know, I'm saying like, fruits got a ton of sugar.

Scott Benner 1:23:00
Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be alright, if you have a sugar free popsicle, right?

Troy 1:23:03
Yeah, but that's the thing is that, like, I can't eat just one sometimes. It's like, they're, they're just too easy to eat. I think that's the biggest thing.

Scott Benner 1:23:11
But she's looking out for it. Does she pay attention to the diabetes? Yeah,

Troy 1:23:15
she does. Like I share my, my numbers with her. And then when she sees something that she's like, Hey, are you correcting this? And like, yeah, it's already been taken care of. So like,

Scott Benner 1:23:25
you find that?

Troy 1:23:26
I do. Yeah, I think it's, it's helpful that she's kind of on my case, but not too much. Like she's not on me enough towards like, pushing me away. You know, I'm saying like, when I was a kid, and my parents did it, like, I'm not getting that type of feel. It's more of like a soft, softer, like, but still. It's like a firm love, I guess. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:23:46
I was gonna say that. Because earlier, even though you kind of you said your parents weren't very involved with your diabetes, but you still did bring up that you did not like being written about? Correct. And I was, I was wondering, like, do you think they were not involved? Because you push them away as a kid?

Troy 1:24:00
No, not really. I mean, I don't I really don't think that I like pushed them away that hard. I think that it was just like, I'm just thinking of a couple of instances where my mom would kind of be on me and I'm not in the best mood when my blood sugar's high. Anyways, so I think it's kind of like one of those things.

Scott Benner 1:24:15
Yeah, no, I know, I've I've that's a valuable lesson for anybody listening that, you know, it's that's not the time when some blood sugar is very low or very high to start, like philosophizing with them about their health. You're gonna get a lot of pushback. Yeah.

Troy 1:24:30
And I think I really started to understand that when I listened to one of your episodes when you were talking about how you kind of dealt with Arden when she was I don't know if she when she was at school, or whatever the case was, but you were like softer about it. You weren't like, Hey, your blood sugar's low, do something about it, or you might have been talking to the CDE about it. And you ready like, Yes, Jenny. I was gonna say, Kelly, I don't know what I was gonna say, Kelly. But yeah, it's my Well, I'm just throwing names out there. So I, I was close. So but just kind of how you're talking to her about like Hey, like, Hey, listen, like just be more soft spoken about it and not make it seem like, you know, it's your fault right now you need to correct this, like do this now or else you know?

Scott Benner 1:25:11
Yeah, no, there's definitely something to be said for

Troy 1:25:14
time, timing and tone, I would say yeah. Yeah, timing

Scott Benner 1:25:18
tone. When you're talking about like, if it's an emergency situation, then you, you're stuck with what you're stuck, right? But it just, it's not gonna go well, like we have those altered mind episodes because we were learning that there are a lot of people who don't even believe in that. Yeah, like there are a lot of people who have type one who say, well, the people my family think I'm making this up that I'm you know, I don't know, easier to get upset when my blood sugar is higher, or my my brain feels foggy or that kind of stuff. So it's bad enough, it's happening to you. But if the people around you don't even believe in it, geez. And at least you need somebody who loves you who's, who can step back and say Now's not the time for us, like even even though it feels very, like high pressure. We This isn't when we do this.

Troy 1:26:06
Yeah. And it's not like like if my blood sugar is 12 and my mom's like, Hey, Troy, you got to put something in your body right now. Like, I can't really I don't have time to, to get angry.

Scott Benner 1:26:17
Sorry, that's not Yeah, no, I

Troy 1:26:18
don't think I'm alive. I don't think I'm conscious at 12 either. But I've thankfully knock on wood I have never passed out. You never ever had to see anything like that. There was one time though when I was like, my blood sugar was like 24 It was right before dinner, I Pre-Bolus a little earlier than I than I should have. I was like 14 at the time. And I was feeling really like woozy and I like went up to go, I grabbed my plate for dinner, my dad just got home. You know, whatever we started eating. I was like, carrying my plate over the table. And I like was like, I don't feel so good. And then I started walking. And I like just lost control of my body. And like just like kind of like fell. And I guess I don't know, obviously, I looked and it wasn't actually 24. At that time, there was a separate time. And it was like 300. So it was really weird how I like felt like I was gonna pass out and I felt like my blood sugar was low. But my reading was pretty high. It's actually high. About that. Yeah, and I double check to because I was like, Alright, maybe it's just a weird check. But I checked it again. And it was still in like the high twos. So

Scott Benner 1:27:17
that's something else. I'll try. I appreciate you doing this with me very much. And I wish you a lot of luck. It's you're an interesting part in your life. Trying to find your way and get settled at the same time. It's a I'm a little jealous. Actually. It's pretty cool. I like that you didn't just run out of college and say I'm doing this thing, this exact thing like you're kind of free spirited about Yeah, don't

Troy 1:27:39
really have a plan just kind of winging in.

Scott Benner 1:27:43
mean, that's ballsy, good for you. I'm glad you got with your new job. Seriously, that's a big deal, man. Like I just saw somebody online today. She's, you know, in my Facebook group, and she's like, Hey, I lost my I lost my insurance saw that. Like I don't actually yeah, she's like, I don't know what to do.

Troy 1:28:01
I read all those. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I can I can relate to a lot of these people.

Scott Benner 1:28:06
Yeah. Now isn't that interesting? Like it's a? I don't know. It's just, it's something that we like people who have insurance don't think about, obviously, but people who are just trying to like you're not doing anything wrong, man. You're just young. You're trying to find your way through life. And it sucks that this is something you have to consider. Yeah. Yeah, I'm

Troy 1:28:25
glad it's working out. Yeah, most definitely. So yeah. And even if like, even just like, the podcast has helped a ton, so thank you for that. And the the Facebook group has been awesome. I've learned a ton on that. More than I have in the last. I mean, obviously, within the last couple of years, I've had a good endocrinologist, but before that, like you guys, everybody in the in the page, and everything has just taught me so much more than I would have known. And it's just crazy how under educated I was, and I've had it for 14 years now. So

Scott Benner 1:28:55
yeah, I appreciate knowing that very much. Makes me honestly just makes me happy to know that it's helping you. So yeah,

Troy 1:29:02
and even if like even if people that are listening want to you know, talk to me about my story, and whatever the case is, like I I'm very, I don't post on social media more than I should. And I don't know, I'm not really out there. But I do want to kind of be a sounding board and I do eventually want to get these camps going to where I can start having type one diabetic athletes across the world come out and kind of do something like that kind of how Sam Fuld has his going and just kind of piggybacking off that. So I'm always open to to talk to people about this.

Scott Benner 1:29:33
When this comes out, drape absolutely go on the page and share it and say hey, this is me and if you want to talk like I'm here Yeah, you know absolutely do that. There's a lot of people in there you'll find somebody Yeah, most

Troy 1:29:42
definitely even people near near here near South Carolina since I don't really know many people out here anyways as of yet.

Scott Benner 1:29:50
Tart, isn't it to move and not knowing Yeah, but I couldn't

Troy 1:29:53
recommend it enough. Honestly. I think that it's it's something it says something about getting out of your hometown, and I didn't I didn't do it for college. So it's better than I didn't know. Otherwise it would never happen. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:30:03
No, I'm watching my son had to go somewhere to take a job. And he's like, by himself. But the things that I see him doing with his free time, and he's like, you know, some days, he's like, man, what did people do after they were? You know, I said, I had kids, so I don't know. But like, just little things, like, he, like one day, like, called me, he's like, I'm gonna go to the park and play basketball. He's like, I'm just gonna try to find a game. And, and he, you know, he did, he went to a park found a bunch of like, some kids, some adults playing basketball made his way in through it. And, you know, it's, it's that I don't know, that, to me is the big deal. Like, just, you don't I mean, like growing to a bunch of strangers and saying, hey, I want to get this game,

Troy 1:30:47
especially nowadays, too, because I feel like everyone just not wants to, like hide behind their phones, but like, it's so much easier to text somebody than it is to call somebody and actually have a conversation. And I think that says a lot about him is as a person, and just people in general that are able to do that, or that are able to go out and eat by themselves and sit there and not necessarily sit on their phone the whole time and just kind of be where they are.

Scott Benner 1:31:09
It's been a really good experience for him like having to like, you know, like, he'll tell you like, I played baseball the whole time. Like there are things I did, he didn't ever had a job. Like, like my son's first job is his out of college job. He'd never worked anywhere once he would he was playing baseball or studying and and he was working hard at those things. There was no time for him to go like scoop ice cream and a local police or something like that. So he went from never having to get up and go to work to having like a real adult job just straight off the bat like Yeah, yeah, in a town by himself. And and it all happened quickly because he got the offer but the job started in like two weeks we had to move like across the country in total that's stressful. It was really something but but like I said, I said I'm seeing it really. Forum has a lot of benefits. Yeah, you do that kind of work. So alright, Troy Hold on one second for me. I appreciate you. Thanks.

Huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com. Ford slash juice box. You spell that? G V O K EGLUC AG o n.com. Ford slash juice box. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1132 CA to NYC

Shannon has type 1 diabetes and is becoming a mental health counselor.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1132 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Shannon is 36 years old she was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 21. And right now she's in her third year of grad school to be a mental health counselor. Today we're going to talk about a lot her upbringing where things went wrong with her type one, diabetes, and so much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you use my link drink ag one.com forward slash juice box you'll get a free year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order of ag one. And you'll save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juice box at checkout. If you're looking for support and community, find the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group and become a member then it'll just be you and 45,000 of your closest friends. And don't forget to check out the Pro Tip series and the ball beginning series at juicebox podcast.com.

US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years, you can as well us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom makers of the Dexcom G seven ng six continuous glucose monitoring systems. dexcom.com/juicebox.

Shannon 2:09
So I'm Shannon, I got diagnosed with type one diabetes when I was 21 years old, which was 15 years ago. I live in New York City. But I'm originally from California. I am going to grad school, and I work at a cafe. And I have three cats, and I have about 200 plans. And that's pretty much it to start off.

Scott Benner 2:36
Oh, wait a minute. You were how old you're diagnosed. I was 21. And that was 15 years ago. Yep. But you're right, but you're in grad

Shannon 2:46
school. But I'm in grad school as an old lady. Yes.

Scott Benner 2:50
How did that happen?

Shannon 2:53
Well, so I originally went to college, straight out of high school. As per my parents wishes, unfortunately, they didn't require that I study something useful. So I, I studied photography, I became a photo journalist for many, many years on like a freelance basis, which this was quite a while ago. So I, at the time, there was no Affordable Care Act, there was not really options for freelancers as far as like health insurance goes. So that was a whole situation. And I always kinda, it's a hustle out there when you're when you're trying to find freelance work. And so I always kind of coupled my photography stuff with with other random jobs like really random stuff. Yeah, so I've, I've kind of just been floating around in that world for a long time. In 2020, when the pandemic hit, I lost the majority of my work because that was my my photography stuff. It was a lot of like events and that sort of thing, which, of course dropped off during the pandemic. And I had been ready for a long time to kind of start something else go in a different direction. So I was just sitting there one day locked down in my house and decided to start taking like free online courses, took one in sociology took a few like psychology ones that this is interesting, and ended up applying for grad school to do counseling, and didn't get it in the first time. My background, you know, is in Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's not a requirement that you have to have an undergrad background for this particular program. You don't have to have an undergrad background in psychology or or, or social services or anything like that. They actually kind of pride themselves in having like an eclectic group of people with All sorts of different backgrounds. But nonetheless, I did not make it in. But my very supportive partner, he urged me to apply again. And I got in. And yeah, so I'm going to be starting my third year, third and final year of program. I've been sort of part time throughout. And yeah, I doing like an internship as part of my fieldwork requirements. And by this time, next year, I will hopefully be working out in the field as a, as a mental health counselor,

Scott Benner 5:33
for you. Well, that's really wonderful. Thank you. You're one of the people who actually like we all were like, hey, while we're locked down, you know what I should do? I'll learn you actually did it?

Shannon 5:43
Well, it had been a long time coming. It had been, as I said, I always had to pick up additional work. And I was, for a long time to my my family has a construction business. And so very generously they, for several years, as I was building up my photography, career, they, they let me work for their construction business remotely, which was a very flexible and easy source of income. So I feel very privileged to have had that opportunity. But it just was not, not something I'm interested in at all. And so for many, many years, I was like, I got it. I got to find an escape and go do something else. So the pandemic was sort of an excuse to do that.

Scott Benner 6:31
Yeah, no kidding. Listen, while you were doing that, I was seeing if I could watch all seven seasons of New Girl. So

Shannon 6:37
did you do it?

Scott Benner 6:38
I did. Very successful.

Shannon 6:40
Yeah. Nice. I watched my very fair share of Netflix as well. So or what's new girl on set on Hulu?

Scott Benner 6:50
It was on Netflix. It just moved to Hulu.

Shannon 6:52
Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah, I go through binge watching of shows too, especially this summer. I towards the end of that school year, I was getting pretty burnt out. And then I had to take summer class, which ended about a month ago. And since then, I think I've watched like, five full series on Netflix and other streaming services. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:15
So okay, so tell let's talk about just one last question. You were getting your health care through your parents company, is that right? diabetes comes with a lot of things to remember. So it's nice when someone takes something off of your plate. US med has done that for us. When it's time for art and supplies to be refreshed. We get an email rolls up in your inbox says hi Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from us med. You open up the email. It's a big button that says click here to reorder. And you're done. Finally, somebody taking away a responsibility instead of adding one. US med has done that for us. An email arrives, we click on a link and the next thing you know your products are at the front door. That simple. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 I never have to wonder if Arden has enough supplies. I click on one link. I open up a box. I put the stuff in the drawer, and we're done. US med carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three and the Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide, over 800 private insurers and all you have to do to get started is called 888-721-1514 or go to my link us med.com/juice box using that number or my link helps to support the production of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode of the podcast is sponsored by Dexcom and I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you a little bit about the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven the Dexcom G seven is small, it is accurate and it is easy to use and where Arden has been wearing a Dexcom g7 Since almost day one of when they came out and she's having a fantastic experience with it. We love the G six but man is the g7 small the profile so much closer to your body, the weight, you can't really feel it and that's coming from me and I've worn one I've worn a G six I've worn a g7 I found both of the experiences to be lovely. But my gosh is that g7 Tiny and the accuracy has been fantastic Arden's Awan C's are right where we expect them to be. And we actually use the Dexcom clarity app to keep track of those things. That app is built right in to Arden's Dexcom G seven app on her iPhone. Oh, did you not know about that? You can use an iPhone or an Android device to see your Dexcom data. If you have a compatible phone, your Dexcom goes right to the Dexcom app. You don't have to carry the receiver but if you don't want to use the phone That's fine. Use the Dexcom. receiver, it's up to you. Choice is yours with Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox.

Shannon 10:10
I was not no. So how do I begin with that? It's kind of a, it's kind of a show. Sorry, you're gonna have to bleep that out. But when I was, let's see, when I was diagnosed, I was 21. This was in 2008. And the, at the time, you could be on your parent's insurance, I think a tool you're 23. So I was good for a couple of years, I was sort of finishing out school and I, but I had this impending knowledge that once I graduated, I was gonna have to like find a job with Ben Fitz. And so right then, like, I think it was 2010. And don't quote me on this politics is not my strong point. But Obamacare came on to the scene. And he extended it from age 23 to 26. That you can stay on your parent's insurance. That's the way it still is, right? Yeah, I

Scott Benner 11:13
think so. Yes. Okay. So

Shannon 11:15
I stayed on my parent's insurance till I was 26, which gave me more of a buffer. So I just decided to kind of keep screwing off. And I decided I was going to do something adventurous and fun. So I moved to New York City, all the while, you know, still getting photography gigs, but still also working mostly food service jobs as a supplemental income. Before I knew it, I was 26. And about one month after I turned 26, so I stayed on COBRA for like, I think it was a month or two, my parents generously paid for that, or helped me pay for it. I can't remember exactly. They paid for COBRA. And then the Affordable Care Act was like fully onto the scene. And you could finally apply for health insurance with a pre existing condition just to get an individual plan. So I was able to do that it really sucked in the beginning because not many providers were interested in accepting this new weird insurance. That was, you know, through the state. So I had really, really slim pickings as far as doctors went, which was sort of my norm anyway, I was not great. As far as keeping a regular endocrinologist on on board. And so I kind of just wanted to get my prescriptions and that's all I cared about. So So

Scott Benner 12:45
sure, yeah, so hold on. So you sound like, like a, what's the word I'm looking for is a vagabond? What is it? Like? What, why? What happened? What is it just your personality, like the kind of jumping around and like, you know, they made you go to college, but you went for photography? Like, what is all that? Do you have brothers and sisters? I

Shannon 13:06
have two younger sisters. Yeah. So I'm the oldest, my we're all two years apart. So my, my young, my middle sister is two years younger than me. And then the other ones, two years younger than her, okay. Growing up the same way. I've got one sister that's a drummer, in band. And then I got another sister who dabbles in comedy and writing and bartending. And she's also a mother of two incredible kids. She's an amazing mother. So we're an interesting bunch.

Scott Benner 13:38
Hold on a second, where were the parents real successful in the in the construction?

Shannon 13:43
So yeah, what's interesting about my parents is that neither of them really. My dad didn't even graduate high school. Sorry, dad that I'm telling the world that but he he'd met my mom when he was in his senior year of high school she was as well and he was just all so wrapped up in that that he stopped going to class and didn't get like one final credit to graduate. Wow. So So

Scott Benner 14:06
what's your mom going on? What did you

Shannon 14:11
Oh, she like a cute little five foot two. You know? She was like 95 pounds at the time adorable.

Scott Benner 14:19
I'm getting the picture now. It's coming together.

Shannon 14:22
Very, very smart and witty woman so he was yeah, he was in love. Hey,

Scott Benner 14:28
certainly was he's like I forget about everything else. Doesn't matter. Nothing. So your parents have kind of a free lifestyle feeling like a free mindset as well. No.

Shannon 14:40
So what's what's weird is that they so they both like my my dad had a connection in the in the construction industry. And he's a he's a smart guy. He just is he just a naturally smart person. He moved his way up and my mom same thing. She's really like financial oriented, like, she's not a CPA, but she's done a lot of bookkeeping and accounting and her life and talks to me about all the stuff that I could really care less about. But she just loves thing all things money, and they ended up so we lived in Los Angeles at the time, after they'd had a couple of kids, the earthquake of 1994 hit and we were like at the epicenter. And our neighbor, our surrounding neighborhood was like depleted. We lived in a van for like several months, and then kind of upgraded to a motorhome that somebody loaned us. And in this haste, they put together a their own construction company to fix up the rebuilds. Yeah, the rebuilds, okay. And it you know, they're like I said, they're, they're very, they're kind of like scrappy, but very innovative people, and they just made it work. Do

Scott Benner 15:59
they make out well, in the rebuilds, and you grow up in a house that's financially comfortable?

Shannon 16:04
financially comfortable? Yes. Like, especially looking back, because they used to kind of complain about money, they used to fight about money, that kind of typical thing, it was a stressor for them. But when I think about my own life now, and how little I have compared to them, when they were my age, it's, you know, it's very generally rational thing. I'm, I'm like hardcore in the middle of, I couldn't be more millennial, you know. And they're hardcore boomers. And they really, they had a lot they owned houses, cars, you know, they had savings, all of that stuff. And they were trying so hard to instill that in us. I can't even tell you, Scott, what our allowance system was like, and what are we had chore charts, we had everything. And they were really trying hard didn't steal this. Like

Scott Benner 17:01
they got a drummer, a comedian and a photographer. I was wrong. I'm just trying to figure out how that happened. Like, like, my first thought my first thought was that maybe your parents just had a bunch of money, but they grew up kind of broke so that they were kind of in the middle with the way they parented and wanted you to have like a carefree lifestyle. But it sounds like that's not the case. It sounds like they tried really hard to get you to do that. And none of you took to it.

Shannon 17:27
Yeah, they did. They tried really hard. But I think it was an interesting combination of they wanted us to be disciplined people they wanted us to like be on the straight and narrow. But they at the same time they wanted to afford us what some options and opportunities that they didn't have. You know, it's kind of kind of typical, like do they did grow up? Both of them were the babies of huge families. Pretty much got ignored. They were just latchkey kids, a lot of divorces have happening. All sorts of stuff. Yeah, a lot, a lot of tragic stuff, too. And I think they just wanted us to have they did want us to have a carefree life. And growing up, I was very, very obsessed with playing soccer. And they told me from the beginning, like, Yeah, you should and could be a professional soccer player. And I believed it. And it was all about follow your dreams. And I did for awhile, and I was on this path of playing. I mean, you know about the stuff with your son, but I was on this path of playing collegiate soccer. I had coaches, you know, coming out to watch me and that sort of thing. And then I and then I quit mid season, right before I was supposed to go to college. Yeah, I just had enough.

Scott Benner 18:48
You just had enough of soccer. Okay, how old? were you when you were like, That's enough of that? Like 17? Well,

Shannon 18:56
yeah, it was sort of, it wasn't that I didn't like the sport. I loved it. I don't know if I could play it now. But it was more so than this. Maybe this happens with with baseball too. But there's just a lot of politics, a lot of weird stuff with the parents that are involved in these clubs, sports, and people get mean, the girls I was playing with got mean, and it was more of like the social act side of it that I was just very burnout on Sure. You know, round 1718 Like those years, my teenage years were not great for me. So that Yeah, I think that kind of came out of that.

Scott Benner 19:37
Okay, your teenage years. Were great for you why?

Shannon 19:41
So we lived in Southern California and moved up to northern California when I was starting middle school. I know it sounds it's like same state but it's it's worlds away. Yeah. You know, truly, like almost 600 miles away and I knew nobody and I'm starting this new school and I just became you know, I was So, I came from a situation down in Los Angeles where I had 40 cousins that were, we would get together like every other weekend, we'd have family gatherings. It was very tight knit, and my parents kind of just took us away from all of that. And

Scott Benner 20:20
you're starting over.

Shannon 20:23
It was starting over. And I was incredibly self conscious. I didn't know what to do. I was I was very lost. And I you know, I was trying to make friends. And it was just a struggle. And in the kids were so mean, like, so mean. So bullying, not to like dive in too deep here, but like, a lot of like, sexual harassment was going on with the boys from kids your age from the kid? Oh, yeah. Okay, bad, really bad. And that carried into high school. And, you know, I just kind of stuck my head in the sand and just all I cared about was soccer. I never once went to a party, I didn't have a boyfriend, none of that stuff. So it was kind of weird.

Scott Benner 21:10
No kidding. All right.

Shannon 21:14
So I don't know if I'm painting a picture of like, how? Yeah, it's funny, too, because my partner now he wonders about this. He's like, how did you come from this family where your parents are, so they're so like, financial oriented, and they're very by the book with a lot of things. And then all of you and your sisters are so just like, doing whatever you want? And like not thinking of the consequence

Scott Benner 21:43
is how do you get through? So this is interesting to me. How do you get through? How do you get through life? Like that? Like, do you? Is it Are you very focused on now and not so much future issues? Like how do you like, I'm, I'm like doing the math. I'm, like, 16 years older than you, right? Okay. I get up every day, in a slight panic, that I can afford things, and that my kids and that my kids won't be okay. And that I won't be okay. And that I'll end up in a home where somebody who doesn't care about me, lets me sit in my own pool for two days. Do you not worry about any of that stuff?

Shannon 22:23
No. And it's so interesting that we're talking about this because it has been a topic lately. And it's something that in my grad school program that we talk about a lot like recognizing our own story, our background story, where we come from, and like the privileges that we've enjoyed, or haven't enjoyed. And I think what is going on here, Scott is that I'm a very privileged person. I think it's just, I never had to worry about that my parents, and those like 40 cousins and aunts and uncles and grandma, and they love us so much. And they would do anything for us. And I That's the world I've always existed in I've never had to really think like, oh, wow, like, maybe somebody won't take care of me. And not to say like, I work hard. I do. But it's I don't have that, that impending. Like, oh, gosh, what if I don't have the money for this? What

Scott Benner 23:24
is there a nice way to say is, is there a big pile of earthquake money somewhere that you feel like will be yours one day? Well,

Shannon 23:32
earthquake money? Um, yeah, I mean, they've built up this business. It's, it's become very, like, the clients that they have. Now, I'm not gonna start listening to clients, but like, they have these clients that are very big global names. I'm just kidding. No, not like individuals. But yeah, like brand names, that household brand names, you know, there's

Scott Benner 23:59
an expectation that there'll be money to divvy up when mom and dad shuffle off the mortar call. Yes,

Shannon 24:05
but at the same time, I don't think I don't even think about that.

Scott Benner 24:09
I wouldn't think about that. If it was happening. I'd be like, what if it was happening, right? Yeah. What is your fear this and just piss it all away? They're just like, You know what, we realize we did you a disservice? Ah,

Shannon 24:22
yeah, they they might I think they did realize it at a certain point. And I know Scott, you've been kind of he's become an empty nester over the last year or two. And my parents went through that, I guess, about 10 years ago. Yeah. When we all finally left and we didn't just leave we like left left, like other states across the country see a Christmas. Yeah. And they had, I mean, they had a really, really, really hard time with that. It wasn't pretty. And I don't know why I was just talking about that, but they I think it I think they sort of realized, like, they kind of something in their parenting made us feel like, we could just do that. And it would be okay. And so I think they they've taken a step back and realize like, oh, maybe we made a couple of interesting choices along the way that made our kids turn out like this and leave us.

Scott Benner 25:23
You can do anything, including abandoned us. Pretty much being like, using hindsight, China as an example, because you brought it up. Could you really have been a professional soccer player?

Shannon 25:37
I think actually, I could have. Okay, I did that. Maybe that's just a product of you know, no, I

Scott Benner 25:43
mean, I believe that you believe it. But I'm wondering what I want to know is what I want to know is, like, Did you run a substantial 60? yard dash? Are you like, nothing but muscle and, and fit? And like, like real? I was worried then. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, you know, that professional female soccer players didn't make anything 15 years ago, right? Like, oh, I'm

Shannon 26:10
well aware, because my, I mean, we, we were so ingrained into this soccer culture. Like my parents, we would take, I feel like I brought up my parents 1000 times now. But they would take us to these collegiate games nearby, we'd watch these players go from the college world up to the professional world. And there was a, there was a woman's league that was like born at that time. And after I think, I don't know, a couple of short years, it folded. But when they were in, you know, starting out and everything, we would go to all these games, we were like, very invested. And yes, like, I was picked regionally to be on what they call, I think it was for the state, the Olympic development program. So like, I was doing pretty well, in the sport, and very small, very fast. I wasn't like, you know, big and muscley. But I was just I was quick. And I was a smart player. But none of that I don't think I could do now.

Scott Benner 27:14
Yeah, I mean, I'm doing my best to look here. And like top tier, female soccer players right now are making a quarter of a million dollars a year, but most of them make like 40 to $80,000, I think, Oh,

Shannon 27:25
yeah. But there again, Scott, I wasn't thinking about money. I was thinking about. I don't know what, yeah, I don't think about money.

Scott Benner 27:33
So I get the idea. I'm not coming down on your parents, either. I just find this really interesting plus your plus what you're going to school for? Let me be honest, Shannon, I find that a lot of people who like who go into like psychotherapy as a profession, really are interested in figuring out themselves themselves.

Shannon 27:51
Oh, yeah, absolutely. This whole thing has been a therapeutic invention for me. If

Scott Benner 27:56
you end up helping somebody else, that'll be a bonus. So but I get I get the idea behind telling your kids like you can do anything, but you really believed it to a level that might not have been completely healthy. Yeah, you you believe in yourself too much is what I think.

Shannon 28:21
Yeah, since in some ways, I guess they Yeah, we were put on a bit of a pedestal I think, you know. Yeah. And it's been an interesting journey to break away from that,

Scott Benner 28:31
right. As an example, right. I'll use myself as an example for a second. I am aware, I will never say it on this podcast. I am aware of what my IQ is. Okay. And it's impressive. Okay, but I can't do simple math. Like I'm like, I can't learn algebra. I can't, I can't remember if if my foots wrapped up right now, if I unwrapped my foot and tried to rewrap it, I wouldn't be able to remember how it came off. But yeah, not even kidding. Okay. And, and I started with literally nothing, and thought that's what my life would be. But I knew in my head, it didn't need to be I was like, I know I can achieve more than where I am right now. But, and every time I made a leap, I set my mind to something and I successfully move towards it. But I never celebrated it. I never went Yes. See that. I'm smart. I can do this. I'm always telling myself. You're going to lose. Like who's going to go bad. You have to keep trying. And you are like everything's gonna be fine. I mean, I'm not saying one's right or wrong. It's just really interesting. You don't I mean, it's

Shannon 29:45
very interesting. And it's it's so interesting to me that this was like the route that we ended up taking this conversation because I think you like zeroed in on it. This whole approach to life has had a huge effect on how I approach my diabetes. I was wondering, go ahead. Okay, so I was 21, when I was diagnosed, I was finishing up school. And I was kind of coming into this thing where I wanted to be independent and live my own life. And it's kind of an awkward age to be diagnosed because I technically I had been back, living at home, especially like in the summers and stuff when I was home from school. But it wasn't enough for my parents to like, they weren't going to help me or take care of me with my, with my management of type one diabetes. And that's that I was okay with that. I wanted that. Because I wanted everybody to believe that I that everything was perfectly fine. And when I say everybody, Scott, I mean, the very few people that I actually let know, I had diabetes. I was so, so afraid. And still, quite honestly, I still am about people knowing I had diabetes, because I was afraid that they would say all the wrong things, asked me all the wrong questions, and dealt me in certain ways. And I just wanted to believe in myself, and believe that I could do it. And I did crazy things to avoid anyone knowing about my diabetes, to making sure I was the best at diabetes. And it wore on me for like, a long time. This was, I mean, this was kind of my mode of operation. Had I come on podcast five years ago, which is when I started listening, I would have just sat there and probably tried to convince you about how good I am at diabetes, how I know everything. And I, in the last few years, certainly listening to the podcast has helped. The school program has helped me a lot, but I've just been trying to let go of that idea that I have to be the best at diabetes that I have to I it's a it's a hot mess. I hate it's hard. It's really hard every day and I the fact that I can actually admit that is like a huge step for

Scott Benner 32:22
me. If you were you really good at it, or were you just telling yourself you were good at it.

Shannon 32:29
So I was pretty good. Okay, I What did that mean? So I was MDI until I started listening to the podcast Dexcom and Omnipod. Scott made me believe in us. So that's what I use now, for the sponsors that are listening. But I was was MDI for the first 10 years of having type one diabetes, but it was like, I went through a lot of test strips, I was trying to act like my own CGM. Before I even knew anything about CGM. I was testing several times an hour, we're talking like 2030 times a day. I was my agencies were, you know, when I was diagnosed, I think I was around 10. That's the only number I remember ever being outside of the sixes. So I was you know, I was higher sixes for the MDA time. Sorry, MDI time, so it was like 6.7 and lower, I think, okay, throughout all that. When I was first diagnosed, I, so this was in like, 2008. So the internet was like a very different place. I didn't know any other type ones in my like, real life, and there wasn't like this online, like diabetes community. But I did a search and I ended up finding this girl who she was like, very, she was very pretty. She She seemed like she had it all together. She was very fit. And she was preaching this idea. She was type one diabetic, that she could make it so that she didn't have to take any long acting insulin. Okay. And I this was like, within the first few months of being diagnosed, I was probably still honeymooning. And I was like, very regimented about what I was eating and everything. I was like, Oh, well, yeah, I can do that, too. I even like, contacted this girl we met up at a certain point. She was like my idol. And I was like, on this quest to, like, prove to myself that I didn't need long acting insulin. And I was down to taking I think, like five units a day or something like that. For reference, I take like, depends on the point in my cycle that I'm at, but I I'm usually like 3040 units a day now. So I was just like Like I would, I was also doing my own Vagabond thing and trying to trying to, I don't know, survive in my own little way. And I would, I didn't want to, like ask my parents for money. So when I couldn't like it and I was really bad at just like, doing basic things like going to the pharmacy. So one time I was leaving for a trip, and I was gonna go on some road trip, going to visit a cousin, who had just had twins, and I was gonna kind of like, help her with the babies and stuff. And I realized that I didn't have I hardly had any insulin left in my fridge to take on this trip. And I was like, Oh, well, it's fine. Like, I'll just, I'll just like not eat any carbs. It's gonna be great. And I I get there, this is my whole plan. We go out to lunch. I have a artichoke, which I thought was going to be like carb free or something. And it wasn't and my blood sugar is shooting up. So I kind of told my cousin what I was doing. And she's like, are you insane? And she took me straight to the pharmacy. I remember we were standing we were there for so long. We had to we found this charger, this wall charger, or like a plug up on the wall where we had to plug in our phones because we were calling my insurance company like for you know and being on hold for like an hour as are standing there in the pharmacy. Anyway, she she ends up getting me the insulin. And I stopped trying to eat low carb and ration my insulin and whatever. So like I was doing weird stuff.

Scott Benner 36:40
Let me tell you something while I move around. So two things an artichoke a medium artichoke has 13 grams of carbs. And I have to put my foot up now prescribed by a doctor. So you're gonna hear some noise. Sorry about that. Okay, I know, I'm not allowed to sit that long with my so hold on this is I've never done this podcast this way before. Oh, okay, now my foots on my desk. And the microphones on a boom, if I fall asleep. It's not you. I'm just very, very laid back right now. Okay. I'd like to, like, bring something up. So the other day, I was on the social media. And I saw a person with type one diabetes, who I know makes a living selling there, I'm making air quotes, selling their coaching to other people. This person is in incredibly good shape. And I mean, visually, you look at them and think, I wish even just my leg look like that. You know, like, that's the kind of like, amazing health they appear to peer. And then I, it made me scroll through their feed. And I saw their blood sugars that just bounce up and down all day long. They're high and they're low, and they're high, and they're low, but they look terrific. And I thought, wow, they're selling that knowledge to people like selling Yeah, selling it to them. And, and you got they were posting their numbers. Yeah, yeah, the graph comes up, look at my graph. I'm like, Wait, what 250 70 360, like up and down and up and down on my end. But what I realized is that there are plenty of people who look at that. It's what you said to me what you said a minute ago, about that you found an attractive person, an attractive person with diabetes. And I thought that's what this is, like, people don't know what they don't know. And so if this person's graph doesn't deter people, they're doing business. They are young, younger people are going to them and getting diabetes advice from them. And then they're paying for it. And on top of all that, it's it's not lost on me that a lot of people might have been in the situation you found yourself in. Like, I just need something like if we could make fun of the fact that you were going to leave your house without insulin. Of course, that's ridic I love that. You're just like, I'm so carefree. But I'm gonna go see the baby now. I love it. Yeah, you don't think yourself like I need insulin to do that.

Shannon 39:19
No, I mean, I did I I'm really also very hard on myself. So I'm kicking myself. I'm like, God, like, what's my deal? I'm an adult. I should I should have gotten gotten that insulin but no, no, no, no, we're gonna fix this in some weird way not not fix it in the right way where I just postpone the trip a little and it's all gonna work fine and all

Scott Benner 39:39
that. It's all gonna work out. You think? Yeah. Yeah. But you feel that way about everything.

Shannon 39:45
I guess I do. Yeah.

Scott Benner 39:46
Here's the question. Does everything always work out? Absolutely not. Okay, sorry, that made me laugh.

Shannon 39:59
Um, I don't. So while it seems like you know, I had this this upbringing that was quite a privilege and sheltered. I have since left that and created my own life and in New York City of all places. So, there are things that happened to me that are very, very serious and very, like, I've had major traumatic life events happened to me, and will you not like I'm living in some dream world anymore?

Scott Benner 40:33
Will you? Will you share those, like something that changed your perspective?

Shannon 40:37
Well, let's see. I mean, first, we can think, you know, the, the type one diabetes happening was a huge shock to my existence. You know, that was one of the first things that happened, where I was kind of shook out of my, my typical way of thinking, I guess. I it's still like I was sort of illustrating like, it still sort of carried over into that. But as the years went on, and I and I grappled with it very, in a very alone type of way, like I really isolated myself, because of the fact that I didn't want anyone to know how difficult it was. And I didn't want anyone to know, at all, you know, I mean, I, I worked for a, just as one example, I, one of my jobs that I picked up, along the way was being a nanny, and I was a nanny for this family for like two years watching their baby, who, you know, is like one year old. And I never told them the whole time that I had type one diabetes, well, somehow, and like the mom, like worked from home, like, I don't know, how I just like hid this the whole time. And I was like, actively hiding it.

Scott Benner 42:03
Because because people would think that you weren't a lessor somehow, if they knew.

Shannon 42:09
Yes, yes. Like, I really have a problem with that. And that's been kind of the catalyst to, you know, eventually, as I, as I make this very, you know, different career change, I'm still figuring out what it is exactly I want to do. But I hope to work with individuals who are like living with chronic illness. Because I think I have this like understanding of what it's like to just be ashamed of it to be isolated with it into not know how to like, integrate it into your life in a healthy way.

Scott Benner 42:53
Can I make sense? I have a question. Yeah. So if you were a practicing person right now, I mean, you're three years into a master's degree. So you're pretty far you're pretty far along getting there. Yeah. And you heard yourself talking? What would you say? What would you say to yourself?

Shannon 43:08
It's a good question. And I asked myself that a lot. What I've learned a lot throughout the program is not so much like, like, it's going to be my job to give myself or anybody else, like, straight up advice, right? I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm not going to. I'm not I'm barely even going to tell you what I think. But it's more of a situation where it's my job to, to ask questions and get, get that person to kind of get myself to look a little more introspectively and figure out where these feelings are coming from, you know. And there's different approaches, of course, different, different theories, but mine is sort of stemming a little bit into psychoanalysis and figuring out like, what from your past is, and what patterns have you been adopting your whole life that has led you to this way of being now?

Scott Benner 44:11
Right? Well, it's why I asked you if you thought you were really an excellent soccer player or not, because, you know, that idea that being told that everything is okay, or everything's fantastic. And you actually knowing that it's not, that's the difference. Right? Like, like, Yeah, especially when you're a kid, like, you can't blow smoke up people's faces, especially children, because they're not unaware. And, and you telling them, like, my son has this way of like, when we're being like, supportive of my son, he will stop sometimes and say, Hey, are you just saying that because you're my dad, or is this real? Or is this real? And and that's when I know that he doesn't know. Yeah, because I've also said like uplifting things to him that he's looked back at me like Dude, that's not true. And And you know, and that's when you're as a parent just trying to be like, oh god, they're in a bad spot right now, like, let me just be positive. And then you realize I did, at least as you got older, like, there's no real value in that, like you're lying, what you're doing is you're lying to them, you're telling them a lie, to save them from feeling bad, when the truth is, they need to know the truth, or they're going to like, barking up the wrong tree over and over, over and over again, you know, with this idea that everything is possible, and that they are the top of whatever pile they're going to try to climb on top of, and that nothing's going to stop them. I don't think things should stop you. I do think at some point you, you should be able to assess the situation and go, Hey, this is not going well. You know, like, maybe this isn't my thing. Yeah, so that was my question. Like you, you know, the truth? Does it, it doesn't help to hear an alternative idea, like so there's a difference between honesty and motivation, I guess. I don't know what I'm saying. I think you're Yeah, I don't I mean, I think motivation needs to be rooted in, in truth. And

Shannon 46:18
honesty. Yeah. And I think that's why I tend to cringe. And I don't want to make any anyone sad or self conscious, because I see this a lot, you know, on the Facebook page, everything where it's like, oh, diabetes cannot stop my child from doing anything. They're a warrior. I appreciate the sentiment, I guess. And I understand, like, parents are in a really tough spot. But I think like, that's the sort of, and there was an episode with Erika that was so great. And actually, like, transcribed it and posted it about, she talks about, you know, that sort of family culture of like, we can do anything we want, and nothing's gonna stop us. It can end up backfiring. You know, yeah. What did you talk about? Said, so you said something funny about grit, essentially, like, putting so much emphasis on this, this idea of grit and like, Oh, I'm gonna push through, and not stopping to just maybe feel the hard feelings and feel like, well, you know, maybe today, I can't do it all. Like, I feel like, my blood sugar has been bouncing up and down for days, I need to, I just need to stop like I I have to take a break. And how that is a, that takes a different kind of strength in a way. And I think that's really important for people to, to know, because I think I was, you know, I was brought up with that idea around other things. It wasn't diabetes, because I wasn't a kid with diabetes, but I was brought up with that mindset in general. And then I applied it to diabetes, and it and I still sort of like, I've gotten comments from like, my mom and stuff that are sort of like I was I was at their house a couple of months ago, just visiting with them. And I was really open and honest about how much I have been struggling lately, with some of my diabetes technology and my numbers and how I've really had a hard time exercising with diabetes, you know, all this stuff, stuff that I never would have shared before, because I didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't doing well. And God bless her. But her response was, Well, you know, because I ended with, yeah, it basically really sucks. And she's like, well, but there again, it could be something way worse. Yeah. And I just, I was sort of stopped in my tracks. I didn't know what to say at that point,

Scott Benner 49:09
right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. I could have had my arm ripped off by a tiger Zoo. But that doesn't make what I just said any less impactful on my life.

Shannon 49:20
Yeah, and you know, you've had several people on the show who have multiple health concerns, and you've asked a question like, Okay, if you could, if you can take one of them away, what would it be? And so many people have said, the diabetes, like, because it really, it's it is a lot harder than anyone would ever imagine. I think,

Scott Benner 49:43
you know, what's interesting shadow is that, if you were to if you would have just pose that as a question to me, Scott, you've asked a lot of people with multiple health conditions, which one would they take away? I would have told you that it's my recollection that people don't choose their diabetes. Oh really what moreover, that they don't, they never choose what I think they're going to choose. That's the and so I wonder how much of that is your interpretation of it true, like the diabetes is something you would take away, obviously. And so when you hear people say that you agree with them, and when you don't hear people say that, I wonder how it hits you differently. I mean, you know, and I could be wrong, too. But I'm so from my personal perspective, I'm never right. Like, I always think to myself, they're gonna say this. And then they say, Oh, how about that I misunderstand how they experience these things. Like, like, even after talking to them, like they're first certain gonna say, you know, and then they don't, or sometimes they do, but like, I'm always shocked by it. It's just, it's fascinating. Like, it really is. But you're so your mom doesn't? Well, she doesn't get it. But you were also 21 When you were diagnosed, right?

Shannon 50:56
Correct. Yeah. And I, and she's done. She's supported me in a lot of other ways, but I think in that in that piece of like, truly understanding, and she might even understand, but I think it's difficult for her to mine. I think it's difficult for her to accept that I am having a hard time. So I think that was that comment might have mostly been for

Scott Benner 51:26
herself. Yeah, she was talking to her side is waiting for you to say that she's off. She's like, Oh, my God, my daughter struggling with this thing that I don't know how to help her with that we can't make go away. I need to feel better about this. At least you don't have cancer. There. Yeah. Cuz that's what she that's what everybody means when they say that, by the way.

Shannon 51:45
But pretty much yeah.

Scott Benner 51:47
It's a Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Are you close with your mom? You're not Yeah.

Shannon 51:55
So sort of, as I explained, growing up, we were like this, this tight knit family. With the extended family included, then when we moved away, it was kind of like, our immediate family became even even closer. And it was a little bit of this sort of like, in group out group sort of thing. Where it was like we we knew, we knew the way we saw the world. And we had a hard time understanding how other people saw the world, I think, based on like that, as the foundation, we were, we've were and are close. I have since it's it all started around the time that I was diagnosed. Two weeks after I was diagnosed, I was set to go spend a summer, leaving the country for the first time, like, I'd never left the country. And I was gonna go to Europe for a couple of months. And I did it, and two weeks into diagnosis, and that sort of combination of things, like set me off in a bit of a different direction. Where I kind of realized, like, oh, that in group that I was living in for so long, is not really reality. There's there's hard things that happen. There's diseases that happen. There's a whole world that lives differently than we live. And I sort of took that and run with ran with it. And I've since chosen a very interesting lifestyle for myself. I guess it's very different than my mom and dad's. And because of that we have certainly grown apart.

Scott Benner 53:38
Oh, I can't figure out what you're talking about. Is it? Is it? Is that a social theory? Is it not political? You said you're not very political is?

Shannon 53:51
Well, it is a bit political there. I don't know. I'm not even gonna say,

Scott Benner 53:56
but I figured it out. Hold on. They make some money. They still live in Northern California. They're getting older. Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah, I got I figured it out. Good.

Shannon 54:06
So there's there's a pretty big political difference. I have, you know, I live paycheck to paycheck, which sort of now seems like a bit of a choice for me since it's been going on for so long.

Scott Benner 54:19
But you're right, by the way, but yeah.

Shannon 54:23
I mean, hopefully, like next year when I have a real career, that doesn't happen. But

Scott Benner 54:28
did you just figure that out? Or did you know that already?

Shannon 54:32
I think I think this conversation has been enlightening, for sure.

Scott Benner 54:37
Be honest, I could get through that art. That grad thing for the counseling, right? Oh, yeah, I'm good at this. Yeah, I absolutely.

Shannon 54:45
Absolutely. I was like fully hoping this would be a good therapy session with Scott.

Scott Benner 54:52
I'm gonna start charging people $40 As the copay.

Shannon 54:55
You should, you should no more than that.

Scott Benner 55:00
It's easy. I can make more than 40. Hold on a second. What do we say? You know what I mean? Like to do like 200? Yeah, hell, what am I doing over here making a pot? I didn't know this. I mean, for me, it feels obvious when people are talking. And I know I'm not always right. But this is this is it? Like, it's, they're not that many different stories, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, like the way people are the way they see the world the way they, you know, like, I mean, we could go back and dig up the, like, the whole thing with your parents being super young and getting together. And then, you know, like, it's just you brought up that they were like the youngest in their families and big families. And, yeah, it all makes sense. And you start making some money. And then you're like, I know what I'm doing. And like, and then you're now you're young, you have some money, you have some kids and you start applying How would I wish people would have treated me when I was a kid. And then they had the financial backing to go headlong into it, which obviously sent the three of you into like a hippie lifestyle where you're just like, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna do I'm great. And I'm gonna go do whatever I want. I'm a drummer. Okay, no one's stopping. You know who, you know who's the drummer? Lars Ehrlich? You know why? Cuz he's wealthy from playing the drums. That means a drummer. Okay, your sister plays drums. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, and I don't know your sister. But you know what I'm saying? It's like, even with photography, like, I mean, were you Annie Leibowitz? No,

Shannon 56:31
but I yeah, I will tell you I had some pretty sweet gigs. Let's just say I've met a lot of celebrities. But no, I mean, what what's weird Scott is that like everyone is always supported me and told me I was good. At and I really, really, really latch on to I am like, deathly afraid of criticism, like it's, and that's, that's why I had my diabetes, all of that. But, but I really super appreciate praise. And I will take it and run with it and make sure that I meet that expectation is that if that makes sense?

Scott Benner 57:13
Well, here, how about this, I will praise you for being a person who is interested in how their mind works. I'm not calling you old, but at 36. for you not to just disappear down this rabbit hole and go, Shannon's terrific. Everything that happens is on purpose. This is the way the world wants it to be for me. I think that's pretty cool that you're still thinking about it. Because I think most people by now would have just put blinders on and just run forward and anybody that didn't raise them or agreed with them would just have been written off as wrong. And I'm wondering why it's okay for me to talk to you this way. Is it because we have that? Because you've been listening to the podcast for so long?

Shannon 57:54
I think so. I was thinking about that leading into it where I was like, oh, yeah, I'm pretty much ready to tell Scott anything like I'm not going to, you know, this is downloaded millions of times. And so your your podcasts, I mean, not mine, but I don't want to tell you things about certain people in my life that are very private, but more for them. Not for me, of course, but yeah, I leading into it. I was like I can tell Scott, anything that I can tell my own personal therapist. And I think it's just because for five years, I've heard your voice. I've heard you respond to other people in a way that it's like realistic and, and fun, but it's not like judgmental.

Scott Benner 58:40
Yeah, well, I don't really care. I don't care about you. Like I don't, I don't. I mean, in the end, it's your life. You don't I mean, like, like, and like we said earlier if your feedback needs to be authentic, and an honest or it's meaningless, but like, but if you would have sat down with your mom and had this conversation, you wouldn't like some of the things I said. Um, where are you past that now?

Shannon 59:08
Oh, no, I'm not past that. Okay. Yeah, no, I don't think I would have liked

Scott Benner 59:13
could you partner get her Could your partner get away with talking to you like this?

Shannon 59:18
We're working on that. Um, it's, it's becoming better. Like I said, this the school program has been therapeutic for me. I've recognized it's like, created a whole new I was already very self aware person but like, it's created a whole new world of self awareness for me that I think I think we're Him and I are Trent and we've been together for 10 years. But we're we're treading into territory that is becoming, you know, more open and honest and pushing me to be more introspective about how different our upbringings are and how and And, and our approach to life is and how so? So certain things? Yes, um, no, I'm very, with most people, I would say, I take very quick offense to most things that are anywhere near critical or treading on that territory.

Scott Benner 1:00:22
All I've learned so far today is that I gotta get my wife to listen to this podcast for five years, and then I can,

Shannon 1:00:28
and then she, she'll open up she listened to me. Oh, my she ever listened to an episode.

Scott Benner 1:00:37
I mean, I don't I probably, I don't know. It's not not a thing we talk about, honestly. Just in case. Hi, Kelly. Oh, my God, you imagine? He doesn't listen to me for sure. I mean, like, she has the same reaction to me that you would have to your mom. I'm like, Hey, I think you should do this should be like, that's not what I'm gonna do. Like, so. But I think that's just, that's everybody. Honestly, you know, we have like tight personal relationships. You're not looking for the person who you know, knows you to say something that you don't want to hear. Right? Because yeah, right. Because if I mean, you have to assume I've been talking to you for an hour. Have I figured you I figured you out pretty well. Right. Pretty

Shannon 1:01:23
well. You zeroed in pretty quick to the whole the whole parent thing, which I wasn't expecting to talk about. But here we are.

Scott Benner 1:01:30
Yeah. Well, and I apologize. I apologize for that. But that seemed like the core of what was happening. Yeah. But my point is, is that after 27 years, you might think I know a couple things about my wife, right? Yeah, but she didn't want to hear that. Because Because, because she's like, Oh, if he says something that that it's biting, I might have to accept it as being honest. And true. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Shannon 1:01:54
and that's the beauty of, of counseling or therapy, I think, is that, and this is obviously not true across the board. But my personal experience was, okay, now I can finally there's like this sort of neutral person, that I don't have all this weird history and baggage with that, I can just tell them and then in sort of, like, same with you, like, I can just tell you things, and it feels so good to just say them out loud. I will tell you also that, like I part of some of that thing that I was talking earlier about having these very real word world experiences is that my my partner is I don't know if I should say it exactly. But

Scott Benner 1:02:39
you don't have to say anything you don't want to share, don't be uncomfortable, please, I'll just

Shannon 1:02:43
say that I've gone to group therapy, where it's, it's like, that was actually the start for me, where I had never gone to individual therapist. But I went to essentially NAR Anon, which I don't know if you're familiar with it. But it's, it's like the same thing as Al Anon. Where it's the families and loved ones of addicts. And, and you go and you talk about you think you're going to talk about the person in your life who has to addict. And that's not what it's about at all. You go in and you talk about yourself, you talk about how you are coping with things and how you want to change, not how you want that person to change. And that was that was huge. For me, that was a light switch just totally flipped in my brain. And I forget why I started talking about this. You asked me something, but oh, I guess talking to people who aren't close to you, like you were saying, like your wife or your mom, talking to these complete strangers, you can tell them everything, and it just feels like a total weight gets lifted off of your shoulders. And that's why I think I became so interested in pursuing a career so that I could hopefully provide that space for other people.

Scott Benner 1:04:15
Yeah, no, I really hope you're able to do that for other people. It's obviously really needed. And I think also such a such a, a clear, clear description of it being the journey, not the destination, you know, because absolutely, I used to listen to these conversations and think, Okay, now we know all this, what do we do about it? But it turns out that the telling of it is what you do about it. It's not like you get to the end and there's a fix, or I mean, sometimes you stopped talking to a person who's bad in your life or you stop acting a certain way but for the most part, it's getting it out that leads you to The answer. It's not. It's not as cut and dry as I think people maybe would would expect without doing it, like, I'm gonna go and this person is gonna give me an answer, and then I'll go home and do the thing, and then it'll be better. And I don't think it works exactly like, no,

Shannon 1:05:15
no, yeah, that's what I was saying earlier, it's not so much about telling people what the solution is, and telling them what they should do and giving advice, it's, it's just continuing to create awareness around it. And, and going, yeah, like you said, kind of going on that that journey, which takes time takes a long time, maybe a lifetime. But and I just want to say, too, that my, my partner is, has been in recovery for a very, very, very long time. Even though that's the case, it's still not easy. There's certain characteristics around addiction that just, you know, tend to carry into other parts of your life. But I do want to say that he is actively working every day to to remain in recovery. And those groups are really special to me. Yeah. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:06:08
that's wonderful. I'm glad you brought it up. So other people, other people can hear about it as well. I mean, yeah, there's a real thing that happens, for example, if you're the child of an alcoholic, like, that's, that's a difficult life to have. You don't realize, and, and, you know, honestly, you're gonna have some sort of a problem from any which way you were brought up, I'm sure like, you know, Leave It to Beaver kid was probably upset. And those people seemed lovely. So you know, that everything. It's not to say that, like your parents, or my parents did something so specifically wrong, that they could have just done differently. It's just who they were. It's how the it's how the soup shakes out. When it's over. Honestly, like, you throw in all the ingredients, and you get what you get. Yeah, it's not like they had an option. And they could have done something else. They only ever could react to the world around them and their situations the way they were going to. Like, that's pretty much it. You don't I mean, I don't know if that's of comfort to people. And I would think it would be you got to be willing not to beat yourself up for it. For me, for you, I'm most worried about your personality and how it relates to your long term health.

Shannon 1:07:24
Like, yeah, so I'm now it's what's weird is that I've always been praised by my doctors about how amazing I do with diabetes, I got this email from my endocrinologist and she's like, I just want to let you know that I work with people all the time, who are really, really struggling. And it's really heartwarming for me to see somebody who's doing so well. So part of that is Scott, me, projecting, trying to convince people that I'm doing so well, but also she does see my numbers. You know, I've had a one season of fives, and I listened to nearly every episode of the podcast, and I'm looping. But it still really sucks. And it's still the the health piece that I would be more worried about is not really so much the diabetes numbers and that sort of thing. It's my attitude, the way I act around my diabetes socially, that I think causes so much stress for me. And that stress is, you know, not great. And I don't know how, I think, again, it's it's a process. And it's getting better, but I still like I like I mentioned, I work in a cafe and I have we have to wear these T shirts, and I get them extra large, so that it covers my Omnipod and my Dexcom on my arms. Because if it did, because, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:07
What would happen? What would happen if it didn't what it was people saw it?

Shannon 1:09:12
So I have this idea that people are gonna, first of all, I guess one thought is that like in, in food service, customer service, like you interact with a lot of people, and they tend to like, you know, like you were saying, like a lot of people are just the same. They say the same things. Like they will say the same things to me over and over about it. If I gave them the chance, I think they would do that. I also have had the thought like because we have all these like incredible pastries and very high carb, high fat things and I'm like, Well, somebody's gonna see that on me. And they're not going to want to like they're going to like ruin their meal because they're going to think like, oh, now I'm gonna get diabetes for meeting this.

Scott Benner 1:09:54
Does that ever actually happen or is that just the worry?

Shannon 1:09:57
It's never happened?

Scott Benner 1:09:59
No one Other things you worry about that never happened? You mean in life in general? Yeah. What else? What else are you bothering yourself with? It has never actually been a problem

Shannon 1:10:09
that everybody hates me.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
I like you, you seem lovely.

Shannon 1:10:13
Oh, thank you. lightful though,

Scott Benner 1:10:15
I don't know, I'll just relax. We're not at the end yet.

Shannon 1:10:20
Um, let's see. Go ahead.

Scott Benner 1:10:23
You see what I'm saying though? Like, you're just you're making you're making things up to be worried about?

Shannon 1:10:28
Definitely. Yeah. And yeah, I, I have co workers that I, you know, I've been since I've been off school for the summer, I'm now like, every day, like 10 hours. And like, I don't say anything about diabetes the whole time. Like, I have coworkers who like, maybe don't even know I have it. And so that's still like a thing in my life where I don't tell people about it. Because I'm so afraid.

Scott Benner 1:10:52
I don't care if you don't tell them about it. Like, I care about the why you don't tell them about it. Like if you don't tell them because you don't want to tell them. That's fine. If you don't tell them because you're afraid that it's gonna make them feel bad, or they're gonna ask you questions, you don't want to hear like all that stuff, then that's where I worry about it. That makes

Shannon 1:11:12
sense. No, that's that's completely what it is like, I don't I'm afraid of the questions. I'm afraid of what they'll think

Scott Benner 1:11:20
you care what they think. Yes. Why?

Shannon 1:11:25
I don't know. I wish I didn't. And I know, you don't care what people think.

Scott Benner 1:11:30
I mean, not so far. But I make it up and eventually, but yeah, I mean, it's it's not that I don't care what people think, either. I do. Like I, I wouldn't want to be a person who, I don't know, I wouldn't want to be a trash person who people looked at when that's a trash person. Like, I wouldn't want that. But if that was who I was, I wonder if I'd care? Probably not. And so is that a concern? About what? Oh, is that a concern about what they think of me? Or is that a concern about what I want for myself? So do you really care about them? Or do you care about what you really are? And you're afraid that if they say that to you, that's who you are, then is that weird? Yes. Okay,

Shannon 1:12:15
you nailed it. Did

Scott Benner 1:12:16
I? Sorry, you talk a little fast. You too. Yeah. You talk a little faster than Erica, or he gives me more time like because she's slower than I can. My thoughts can come together better. But, but I don't, I don't think anything is generally about what we think it's about. Why would you care about what a random person who works in a cafe, who you're not going to know for five minutes from now thinks about your health? Does that make sense?

Shannon 1:12:44
Yeah. Because what they think, becomes what I am.

Scott Benner 1:12:50
Oh, yeah, I wouldn't think that. That's not That's not true at all. But I get where you get where that comes from, if that's people's interpretation, and that must be what they see. And then perhaps that's what I am. And I don't even know it. But your mom told you, you could be whatever you wanted. Why don't you just be what you want to be? How come how come into one part of your life where that advice would actually help you? You're not? I don't know. I can't believe we got to that.

Shannon 1:13:18
I know. I mean, she's, Oh, wow. So yeah, I go head to

Scott Benner 1:13:27
head. So just take all that off of like, hey, I can be a photographer for the rest of my life, which obviously isn't going to be a thing and apply that to the parts of your life where it would actually help you. Because you have that personality. You just put it in the wrong places.

Shannon 1:13:44
Yeah, that's that's definitely true. I wonder why that is? Yeah, just look, I've gotten better. I've gotten better at this, of this idea of sharing with people, but I'm still a long ways away from being healthy with it. Yeah. Did I pass where the the health piece comes in? Go ahead.

Scott Benner 1:14:12
Did I just bum you out? Or were you just thinking about yourself? Which just happened? Why did my voice change? You got real slow and you almost went in your own head for a minute? Did I make you sad? I didn't mean to No,

Shannon 1:14:25
you didn't make me sad. I was. I knew that. This conversation would be did not difficult, but like real? Yeah. So I wasn't expecting that. I would come out of this. You know, like, totally feeling giggly and happy. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:14:43
but you should. You should though, because we really did, like figure some things out that I think would be helpful for you. But I guess it's putting them in practice. It's the issue.

Shannon 1:14:54
But what about yeah, that's that is the issue. So what do I okay imagine you're me. Now I'm asking you to do what counselors really aren't supposed to do. Imagine you're me, you show up to work. And I will say something I change. Something's got on my loop settings. I don't know what it was, but because I am freaking messing around with that stuff all the time, but about two months ago, I think I changed something with my loop settings that finally eradicated the lows that I was having. And I'm talking like, extreme lows. Like, I have had so many lows, and I to the point where I was just like, in my 15 years diabetes, like I just get used to it. And I did something to where I'm not really having those lows anymore. But imagine you show up to work. And you're 10 minutes into your shift at the cafe and your blood sugar starts going low. Like what do you do?

Scott Benner 1:15:55
I mean, you eat something and take a minute.

Shannon 1:15:58
Right? Do you like explain it to anybody?

Scott Benner 1:16:02
I mean, if it came up and it needs to be explained, then yeah. But like if somebody came up to me and went, Hey, Shannon, what the hell are you doing? We're supposed to be working. I'd say my, my blood sugar is low. I've eaten something and um, I need to wait for a minute until I'm okay.

Shannon 1:16:17
But if you want to do weirded out about you know, maybe they're gonna ask me questions. I don't want to answer.

Scott Benner 1:16:27
Me, are you if I'm you, I see that I do. I'm like, I'm like, Oh, I'm not perfect. My mom told me I was perfect. These people are gonna find out I'm not perfect. I've been living this on a I built this, like, Tower of lies up and it's all gonna fall down on me. And then I'm gonna realize I'm not perfect. And then what happens? Is that about right? Yep, yeah. But then what happens is your blood sugar comes back up, but you still work at the cafe and you're still you? Nothing happens. Yeah, nothing. No, I

Shannon 1:16:59
have. I know. We've been on the call for a long time. But I want to tell a quick story about how I

Scott Benner 1:17:04
finished before let me finish the thought before. Oh, my God, I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I want to hear your story. No one cares. The world The world doesn't care. Like you don't have make

Shannon 1:17:16
jokes about it. It's like the brunt of jokes and a they think it's funny. And I think diabetes is funny. Who does? A lot like I feel like a lot of people.

Scott Benner 1:17:26
Do you hear them all?

Shannon 1:17:29
No, I've only heard like one or two. Okay, so who cares?

Scott Benner 1:17:31
Like, like, you know what's interesting? This thing happened yesterday. I have this my whole life. I think Sinead O'Connor is a is that a cop? accomplished musician? Who is a great singer. Right.

Shannon 1:17:47
Did you Wikipedia her yesterday?

Scott Benner 1:17:49
No, no. And I know and I know her. I feel like I know her music, right. And I feel like I know, she's been an activist in her younger years. And that recently, she seems like she's had some trouble and seemed unbalanced at some point. And so and so yesterday, I learned that that she's died. And it takes me five seconds to noodle around on the internet and learn that her 17 year old son committed suicide last year, that she seemed erratic to people on social media the day before, and I jumped to the conclusion this woman's probably taking her own life, right? Because she's 56. Right, right. And it made me go listen to I was in the car and I thought I'm gonna listen to sinead o'connor music and I pulled it off because I thought she's so popular and, and and good that she must have all this great. I know one sinead o'connor song.

Shannon 1:18:44
Yep. Yep, same here. Yeah, this same exact thing happened to me yesterday. One,

Scott Benner 1:18:49
I know one and I listened to it. And I went, this is fine. And I thought like, did she spend her whole life worried that people would like her music or not like her music? Or like, you know, like, like, all these unimportant things? Because it turns out, I don't know any of her music, but I'm aware of who she is. I like I don't really know anything about her. And so my opinion of her is meaningless. But But did it somehow carry weight with her? Like, what does the world think about me? I don't know. Like these are somehow disconnected and connected at the same time. Because if someone's off making a joke about diabetes, does that really have anything to do with you? Because you're not Sinead. Oh, no, you don't. I mean, like you You haven't been on Saturday Night Live like nobody really knows who you are.

Shannon 1:19:39
Yeah, nobody really cares. But I somehow care. What what they think

Scott Benner 1:19:47
so even though nobody knows who you are, and they are not making any personal statements about you, you're worried that their statements are about you. Yeah. And that matters to you.

Shannon 1:20:00
Yes. Okay, it matters. With, with some things with with a lot of things.

Scott Benner 1:20:05
Yeah. But as we talk about it, you recognize they're not talking to your about, you

Shannon 1:20:12
know, but I guess my biggest fear is that like, as I accept more that, that diabetes is difficult, and that it has really affected my life in a lot of ways. I'm afraid that no one will grasp the depth of that. And then they'll just think that it's, it's some silly disease or easy or something. Why

Scott Benner 1:20:43
does that matter?

Shannon 1:20:44
I have no idea. Okay. But it does.

Scott Benner 1:20:50
Okay, I'm not, I'm not arguing with you. I just I don't understand why No, no.

Shannon 1:20:55
It's definitely a valid question. And I wish I knew the answer. But I do want to say nothing compares to you came out when I was three years old. And I think it was the first song I was ever like, really, I'm very, like, musically oriented. I love you know, I love to sing and it but it was like the first song I was ever like, really captivated by in life. And I remember I went to, I went with my mom, she was going to get her her hair cut, or whatever. And I told the hairdresser that I wanted to shave my head. And she's like, why do you want to do that? And she's like, because I was like, because I want to be like Sinead O'Connor. Like, I'm like this, like three or four year old kid saying this and. And she's like, Okay, we'll sing the song for me, and I did. So that's my Sinead memory. But it truly is the only song that I know.

Scott Benner 1:21:47
The only song any of us know, that's, that's fine. My point. My didn't shave my head. Yeah, my point about her is just because she was in my consciousness from yesterday. And, and that, yeah, I felt like I knew a lot about her. But it turns out, I don't. And I wonder if she spent time thinking people know who I am. Or I need to do more so that they can like it's all the same, like you in your personal life and a person being famous or experiencing the same thing just on different scales. Right? So there's this really, like, so I make a podcast, okay. Yeah, now, it's downloaded a lot, but not nearly as much as other people's. So the way I like to tell people in my personal life, I don't know if I usually say this on here. But this podcast is in the top 96% of all podcasts that exist, which is an astonishing, until you,

Shannon 1:22:41
you feel inclined to tell them that so you must care that they don't think that you're just like some random guy with a podcast,

Scott Benner 1:22:47
or I'm telling you a story, you haven't gotten to get to the end of it yet. So like so my point in telling you that is that it feels like it's this really big thing, except that the 4% of people are the 3% of people who have podcasts that do better than mine. To them. My podcast looks like a hobby. You understand, like, so I have this feeling that I'm reaching a lot of people, but I'm not really not in the grand scale scheme of things. And at the same time, there's this thing that comes over you in the beginning, where do people like this? Are they bob, and you have to let go of all that. Like, if you want to be successful at podcasting, for example, you can't worry about what people think. Because in the end, I'm only trying to be there for the people who like what I do, if I tried to be acceptable to everybody. If I wanted to make sure that from the far left to the far right, and everybody in between and every religion and culture, and everybody loves me, what I would end up doing is making something soy milk toast that it didn't matter. And it would die. Like you can't win, there are plenty of those, right? But hold on, we're getting to it. You can't make everybody happy, you can only be you. Now take that and apply it to yourself.

Shannon 1:24:12
I will do my darndest that's it. Um, I have been trying like I I think at least I'm aware at this point that this is not a way to live, you know, that's not sustainable, because it doesn't doesn't feel good to not good because because I feel inauthentic if I if I just present one version of myself and I'm not talking about the hard things. It's not it's not authentic,

Scott Benner 1:24:45
you know, you need to be yourself like like so my audience, right? The people who either are helped by me or find value in it or entertained or like me or whatever it is that it doesn't matter. Whatever brings them back all the time. Those are the people that I that I care about. Right like, and that's a large group of people, which was my point about telling you the 90, like, what my point is, is that if you go out into the world and be yourself, you'll probably be in the 96th percentile of people who like you, most people will probably like Shannon, and probably not care when they when you say something that doesn't seem perfect, because I don't make any effort to be perfect on the podcast, right? Like I say things all the time that people are like, I can't believe you said that. And I go, Yeah, this probably not, this is probably not for you this podcast. Like if you're, if you're not okay with that, you probably want something else, you should go get that don't sit around telling me you don't like me, that's, I mean, it's cool. If you don't, but we don't belong together, then. The concern probably is, is that most people won't like you. But what I'm telling you is that there's a big enough audience in the world, that you will, you'll do fine. And I mean that even within your personal, I'm trying to relate these two things together, like in your, in your personal relationships, most people are going to end up liking you, the ones that don't will go away. And the ones that do will stay behind and you'll be great. Like, that's like, there's no real fear of like, this is gonna go wrong. Like, but you've you're worried about it going wrong?

Shannon 1:26:20
Yeah, I don't I just don't believe that 96% of people are gonna like me, like, I don't want I don't believe it. Like I, I believe there are so many things I can do. In in a split second, that will just make somebody not like me. And it's just like always there. It's just a looming thing that's always there for me. Have you ever I'm like a nice person. I'm a fun guy. You know, I can be like, I have a sense of humor like I can. It's not like I have real reason to think this. But apparently I do.

Scott Benner 1:27:01
Yeah, no, no, I, if you've heard me say this, I guess that me but when I was first dating my wife, she very earnestly said to me one day, she goes, some people really don't like you. And I said, Yeah, I would expect everybody to like me. And she said, Does that not bother you? And I said no. She goes, Well, other people really do seem to like you when I was a kid she does is a matter of fact, either people seem to really like you or really not like you. And I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. And then she pointed out a person and said, like this guy, I remember, he really doesn't like you. And I said, What do you think of him? And she started talking about him. He wasn't a pleasant person, you know, number of different reasons. And I said, Well, then, what would it say about me if he did like me? I mean, isn't it good that that person is not attracted to who I am? Yeah, you know, why does any of that matter? I don't know. It's probably got something to do with your parents telling you you were terrific.

Shannon 1:27:59
Something to do with that. And I would just say, it's absolutely something to strive for. I think. I think you've got it right. Maybe count your lucky stars, that. That's the sort of mindset you go into. Yeah, no.

Scott Benner 1:28:17
I gotta bring my foot back down hard. Sorry. I absolutely do. I don't want to come off. blase about it. I think just like good health or good mental health or any of the other height. You know what I mean? Like the things you get lucky with, you are just getting lucky with this is just how my brain works. I can't do anything about it. I would just say to you that I think you're you. You've seen the lightful you're not perfect. I got it. But you're not perfect. And that should be okay. Yeah, and everybody's not going to, like be down with Shannon. But who cares? Like that? Like, because otherwise, and this is the harsh reality of it. You're 36 You don't live forever? No. Is this your story? You spend your whole life doing this? You know what I mean? Like,

Shannon 1:29:06
that's it. I like that. That's a good that kind of flipped a switch there.

Scott Benner 1:29:10
Like just be done with it. It's ridiculous. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's no different than spending. I know a person spends their whole life smoking cigarettes going, I gotta stop smoking cigarettes. I gotta stop. So I'm gonna just stop smoking cigarettes, like, what the hell like how, how much longer are we going to talk about it? Like do I either do it or don't and if you don't then dive in headfirst and just say to yourself, I'm gonna smoke this sigma socket, like a and then just until it kills me and I'm gonna be happy about it. I'm gonna make a bit of a big sign that says I did this to myself. I wanted this Don't feel bad for me. Like, like, do it or don't do it. And in but like the sitting around ruminating is yeah,

Shannon 1:29:51
the ruminating it's

Scott Benner 1:29:54
exhausting. You know, like, isn't it exhausting to you?

Shannon 1:30:00
Yeah. Oh, it's so exhausting. And that's what I talk about the stress that surrounds that is, is what's going to healthwise take more out of me than probably the diabetes number. Yeah, yeah. And that's so silly. Shannon, they wanted Yeah, your

Scott Benner 1:30:20
story we're going to end with, okay, but I want to say this to you, and then just do with it what you will. The truth is that people come on the show, and they they'll lay down a track, like the one you've done with me today, right? And it's going to help a lot of people. My concern is always that it never ends up helping the person who recorded the episode. And so don't let that be your story, please. Like when this comes out, go back and listen to it. And pretend it's not you. Just listen to it like it's someone else. Because as you're listening, you're gonna think Oh, Shannon, come on. Like, just, you know what I mean? Like, you know what to do, Shannon just do that. Like, like, right here. Like, that's a decision you made, like, don't make that decision. Like those sorts of things. Like, I am very fond of the phrase, that person wants to be upset. And it doesn't really mean that people want to be upset, it means they're comfortable there. It's the place they want to be. And you're comfortable in this position. You don't like it and you wish it was different. But it's what you know, and therefore you don't. Maybe it doesn't feel like it's that important to break away from, but I think I think it is. So and I think you'll be a much better clinician when you graduate if you figure out a way to do that for yourself as well.

Shannon 1:31:39
Yeah, I agree. That's all I agree. I'm talking gets important.

Scott Benner 1:31:43
I got nothing else. What's your story?

Shannon 1:31:47
Yeah, no, I just thought this popped into my head earlier, I forget what it was we were talking about. But in at school, we were doing this, we had this one class where we basically broke out into partners. We change the change the partners once in a while throughout the semester and work with different people. But basically, we would do like live counseling sessions with each other for about five minutes in front of the entire class. We're about three quarters of the way through the semester, we change partners, and I start working with this woman who I've had a few classes with her and I had never really talked, she is she has some vision disability. She's not. She's not blind, but she has a lot of different things going on with her vision. And we started talking, and my professor kind of had us do some icebreakers beforehand, before we were going to like go into this counseling session with each other. And it was sort of I forget what the prompt was, but it was sort of something like, you know, tell me two things I don't know about you. And I finally just decided to say it, because she had told me that with her vision, the way her eyes look, it looks different and scary to people. And so she feels as though she gets a lot of weird reactions from strangers. If she tries to ask somebody directions or the time, you know, they they act weird towards her. And I wanted to sort of, I guess, commiserate along with her. And I told her about how Yeah, I'm a type one diabetic. And I have a real problem, too, with telling people about my diabetes, because I'm afraid of their reactions. And she was floored. She was like, what? And she was like, I had no idea that you had diabetes. I had no idea that something like that would affect you that you would be affected by by what other people think because she said and then she kind of we share it out loud with the class, like what we found in our icebreaker activities. And she's like, Yeah, you guys know Shannon, who comes in here like, Hey, I'm Shannon and like, I'm like, very self assured and self confident. Well, it turns out, she's actually not here hearing some hearing somebody say that out loud. To me was like, I had no idea people thought of me like that. First of all, I didn't know that I came into situations like that. So it was just very, I guess, very eye opening that that is the persona I project. And that when I finally tell somebody the truth, the god honest truth about how I'm feeling. It's like this person who I never really talked to her throughout our classes. She all of a sudden warmed up to me and she wanted to be like, friendly with me and wanted to know more about me and it was sort of just like this lesson and like, Okay, well you know that often anticipate that I was talking about if I'd finally just am authentic with people, maybe maybe I've been getting in my own way of people like me, because I don't show my authentic self. I don't talk about the hard things.

Scott Benner 1:35:12
Maybe that's it, maybe. I mean, maybe it turns out the whole podcast could have been just the last two minutes, and we would have been done. That's really, yeah, I mean, go with that. Yeah, yeah, go with that. Just, you already know how to project. Like your success. Obviously, people see you that way. So now all you have to really do is be the person you're projecting, and you're done. And now you have the confidence to know that people will like that, no matter what the truth is about you.

Shannon 1:35:46
Yeah, that's all. Yeah. So it was definitely insightful to hear that. And, you know, that was a couple of months ago now. And I think I've been trying to kind of like, internalize it more. And that is my goal, as you know, as you were saying, as a clinician to go through this whole process myself of figuring out how to come out of this, these patterns and stuff that I've created in my world, and then how to help other people apply that to their own life if, you know. So, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:36:23
Sounds like a plan to me. Yeah, it really also, who knew that the that the education system for clinic for clinicians for this was taking advantage of knowing like we know who comes into this space will actually help fix them while we're teaching them?

Shannon 1:36:36
That yeah, kill two birds with one stone. It's great.

Scott Benner 1:36:41
You know, the entire time we've been talking, no matter how serious this conversation has been, I am somewhat stuck on the idea of your dad being so smitten by your mom when they were little that he was like, I don't need to graduate from high school.

Shannon 1:36:56
Well, they are celebrating their 40 year anniversary this week, or next weekend. So we're all going all three Vagabond children are going to celebrate with them. And their two grandkids too. And so yeah, congrats to them. Oh, that's huge. Everyone who needs a high school diploma anyway? No, really? Yeah, he's still so like, smitten with her. And like, the things that that man does for my mom. Wow. That's

Scott Benner 1:37:24
lovely. Isn't that nice? All right. Sure. Well, listen, you got a guy for 10 years. You're not even married to him. He doesn't leave.

Shannon 1:37:33
True. Yeah. So many good reasons to and he's. He's a champ with the diabetes stuff, too. So Oh, that's

Scott Benner 1:37:40
lovely. Well, you must have you must have tricked him like your mom trick your dad.

Shannon 1:37:43
Yep. Yep. It's hereditary smoke and mirrors all smoke and mirrors. All right, hold

Scott Benner 1:37:48
on for a second. Okay, thanks.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven, which now integrates with a tandem T slim x two system. Learn more and get started today at dexcom.com/juicebox Arden has been getting her diabetes supplies from us med for three years, you can as well, US med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 My thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode. And for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast. There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com to us Med and all the sponsors.

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