Scott Benner 2/7/24 Scott Benner 2/7/24

#1125 Grand Rounds: Technology Part I

Scott and Jenny discuss diabetes technology. Part one of two. Part two is episode 1026

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1125. This is part one of the Grand Rounds episode for technology part two is it episode 1126.

Today Jenny Smith and I are continuing on with the Grand Rounds series, we're going to discuss technology in this two part episode and the first half general overview of CGM and pumps and in the second half different pumps technology and understanding the differences between them. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year's supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com. If you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series, it runs between Episode 1001 1025. For subscribers to the podcast, those episodes are ad free. For everyone else. There's just a couple of ads episodes 1002 1025 diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that check them out at touched by type one.org. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the insulin pump that my daughter wears Omni pod, learn more and get started today with the Omni pod dash or the Omni pod five at my link Omni pod.com/juice box. Alright, Jenny, we are back doing the Grand Rounds, which I guess is gonna get called by default, because I can't think of anything else.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:26
I think it's a great name.

Scott Benner 2:27
I love the name until one person online. It took one person to say to me, I don't think every hospital calls it that. And I was like, Oh, I pick the wrong. And but I think it makes the point, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:37
It makes the point it does. Yes.

Scott Benner 2:41
So today we're going to talk about continuous glucose monitors and blood glucose monitors in the same short conversation here. I guess we'll just start with BGMs blood glucose monitors and go over very quickly, that they're not all the same. And I'm beginning to wonder if doctors offices know that. That makes sense. These are not incredibly expensive items. Most people's insurance, if not all people's insurance are going to be covering a blood glucose meter. Yes, in a world where they're right. That's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:16
some kind, it's fair. It's fair, I wouldn't say that they even good insurance companies have sort of a preferred glucose meter. Right. And you may pay more for one that you expect in reviewing is better in terms of accuracy. Insurance will typically cover up a meter. Yes,

Scott Benner 3:36
I just think that it's worth mentioning that this meter that I'm giving you may not be as accurate as other meters, perhaps you should look into it or I don't understand why doctors offices don't begin with here are the top three, right? Because I think there's about three of them that kind of fall in similar space as far as accuracy goes, right? So here's the top three. If your insurance company doesn't cover the test strips for this, then you know, here's a declining list of accuracy. I just don't think that is a conversation that's ever had, I think you Gill, whatever the office leans towards maybe or I don't know how it even works to be honest, true.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:11
Years ago, when I was working in office, the standard that would be is that you would get from different companies, you would get sent meters and the meters are not the expensive piece. The meters are actually more of like the freebie that kind of like we would give for newly diagnosed we would give them either Yeah, the prescription and the pay part comes with the test strips, right? So it then depends on what test strips are kind of covered at what cost they're being covered. But most of the offices like I said when I worked in the past would get a good supply from all of the brand name ones not the typical ones, that you're gonna find it like Walmart or any of the pharmacy places that might have the generic brands, but we would get all the way Any ones and we would essentially help to kind of figure out which one would work best for this person size, what other things that they might be working with, et cetera. For

Scott Benner 5:11
my money, its accuracy and being able to read it. That's what I'm concerned with, and blood drops at this point. They're all pretty smaller, like requirements.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:21
They are for the most part. I mean, you know, when I was first diagnosed, it had to be this hanging blood. Like this gigantic off your finger? Yeah, exactly. Yes, to get enough. But these days, pretty much they're all about the same tiny, you know, head of a pin sort of size that Yeah. And the other nice thing is that many of the good ones actually allow second drop applications so that if it didn't get enough to begin with, you have a certain number of seconds in order to reapply some additional blood to get enough of the sample.

Scott Benner 5:52
Yeah, yeah. Are mucking it up. So it's not as accurate. Correct. So that to me, that's it just like, explain to them, here's the accuracy. I don't know what your insurance company is going to cover. I mean, even be clear and say, Look, from a purely business standpoint, the game is selling the test strips, like that's where they make money, right? So the meter is your, you know, caretaker meter, and then hopefully, you'll buy our test strips, because you like the meter afterwards. I would imagine there are people listening right now that are thinking, Wait, some of these meters are more accurate than other ones. I honestly 100% believe that that's not a thing everybody understands. And why would you think that? You know, why would you consider one to be less than the other or better. So I think have that conversation. And then on top of that, even if you're giving someone a CGM, which we're going to talk more about, you still give them a blood glucose meter. It's important. And you know, you test your blood sugar, if your blood sugar's really 110. And the the meter says, it's 150. That's a lot more insulin you're about to take, you know, right. And that's just not okay. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:56
all right, it's a safe place that you think that you're starting based on what you're planning to do after this test. And you may be aiming for that, when in fact, you might actually be lower. Or maybe you're actually higher than that. So yeah,

Scott Benner 7:08
it's just important and I want to say to just because you're gonna give somebody a CGM doesn't mean, they don't need an accurate blood glucose meter. So right, you take five seconds to make sure they understand how to use it. Here, I'll ask you a question. You test your finger sometimes, right? Yes,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:26
when's the last time more than sometimes,

Scott Benner 7:28
sometimes, when's the last time you cleaned your hands with alcohol before you tested? In 2015, I needed support to start making this podcast and Omni pod was there. They bought my first ad, in a year when the entire podcast got as many downloads as it probably got today. Um, the pod was there to support the show. And they have been every year for nine seasons. I want to thank them very much. And I want to ask you to check them out at Omni pod.com/juice box. My daughter has been wearing an omni pod every day since she was four years old. And she turns 20 This summer, it's been a friend to us along the way. And I think you would enjoy it as well. Omni pod.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com to Omni pod and all the sponsors. I don't use

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:22
alcohol to wipe my finger. There may

Scott Benner 8:24
not be alcohol in this house, actually. So I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:27
do use it to clean sites. I do use it to clean the back you know those little ports. And again, we'll talk about CGM, but I do use it to clean that off. But in terms of it's really a degreaser, right? an alcohol swab is kind of a degreaser, you're better off honestly just washing your hands with warm, soapy water, sing the birthday song to make sure that you you know, get as much bacteria off as you're supposed to get off and then wipe your hands nice and dry. And then do the fingers.

Scott Benner 8:56
So here's the question. That health aside, I don't mean like you don't want to open up a hole into your hand while there's bacteria and germs and everything in your hand that I know No, I don't want to do. But for the accuracy of the test. Dirty hands don't matter, right? Well, it depends what they're dirty with. Right? So glucose in your hand sugar on your hands that would interfere with the test. True, but if I was muddy, and I just rubbed my hands real quick and found a clean spot, would I get an accurate test? Jenny's like I don't want to say

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:25
that? It's a great question. It really is. I mean, I've I've never actually thought about it. Although I will have to say that so in I in college, I used to do Habitat for Humanity and we would do trips out of state for spring break. And there were many times on the worksite it's honestly that it wasn't easy to get to just like running water with soap. So I I would actually just dip it in like my water bottle. Wipe it off. I'm assuming it was clearly I never had any infections. I'm not by any means recommending this as a therapy or an option.

Scott Benner 9:59
I just want to have the conversation. Jenny's not recommending it. Listen, I saw Mark Andrews get catch a touchdown pass a few weeks ago, and I'm telling apply somebody went on the sidelines tested his blood sugar didn't see him stop and wash his hands. So, right? Correct. The reason I bring it up is because I've seen newly diagnosed people kind of crippled by it. Like, oh, I have to test but I don't have a an alcohol swab, or somebody's like, I think I'm low, but I have to go get an alcohol. I'm like, Just test your blood sugar. You're like, yeah, let's get moving here. So anyway, that's my little bit for that. Why?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:31
I think as far as accuracy, too, I think that that's something that, unfortunately, unless, as a, you know, we're speaking to, hopefully, practitioners here, too, right. And in terms of their understanding about accuracy, you really do have to read the fine print, this is where you might need to get your reading glasses out and read that tiny little print that comes inside each and every one of the meters that you may be recommending or handing out from your office space. Because if you haven't read that, right, all of the different blood glucose meters on the market, including continuous glucose monitors, they all have marred, right. It's an accuracy rating. And so you'll be able to tell by easily lining those papers up with the little graphs inside of them. Which ones are the better ones to be recommending to your patient? Why

Scott Benner 11:24
do you care which one lives as long as it's the better one and their insurance covers it? Correct? Look, I'm not saying if you have no other options, or you're a cash payer, and it's hard for you, whatever, then take what you can get, you know, the best you can get. But while we're handing them out, it just it seems to me, it seems to me that you probably said that, and a number of physicians probably just in their mind with these meters are different. Like why would you think that their blood glucose meters? Seriously, you know, you would expect that

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:50
if they're on the market, they've been approved? And yes, they've met some type of accuracy rating in order to actually be on the market. Yes. But there are, as you said earlier, there are three that are pretty much the top tier and align with each other in terms of accuracy. I mean, I have two of the top three. And I will not often but probably, you know, once or twice a month, I'll actually pair them off of each other with the same drop of blood, just to see how they're still, you know, on par with each other

Scott Benner 12:24
remarkably close every time you do it. They

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:27
are Yeah, very, I would say within about five milligrams per deciliter, honestly, they're very close to each other.

Scott Benner 12:34
I just last night. So I mean, they're sponsors of the show. But you know, our news is a contour next meter, one of the content x meters, and there's a number of them, but she was bolusing for a blood sugar. And I was looking at her CGM. And I thought, that's not right. I know that's not right. Your blood sugar is not this high. From what she ate, and how much we Bolus. It just didn't make sense to me. I knew her site was working well. So I was like, you just gotta test real quick. And she tested and no kidding like her. I think her CGM had her at 190. And she was 150. So I was like, I knew it. And before we were gonna make another big Bolus. I was like, Don't do that. Again. I'm like, we have to check first. And I have to say I trust that meter pretty implicitly. So pretty great meter. Okay, so but CGM seems good, or do you have more to say on meters? No, I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:25
wanted to make a point, though, about what you just brought up in terms of sensing or having a sense of where glucose should be. And as we move into talking about continuous glucose monitors, the accuracy of your blood glucose meter, where you're doing a finger stick and getting a number from, if at any point you need to calibrate that CGM, the accuracy of the blood glucose meter also makes them very big difference in terms of the CGM.

Scott Benner 13:58
I left that out. But that was the last bit of what we did. As soon as that number came up. I was like, go ahead and calibrate the CGM it. Yep. Well said, I know that marketing wise. You know, all the CGM companies like to say like, you know, you don't have to calibrate you don't have to calibrate but you can, if you you know, so why can I if I don't need to sometimes. Right. And you know, and I'm down with that. I know, some people say it'll figure it out and we'll figure it out. But I mean, this is, is four or five days into this thing, her blood sugar. You know, it's she's got her period stuck a little higher using some extra insulin like stuff like that. But I was like, that's not right. And that's, by the way, we're not talking about management right now. But I don't mean that you can figure out what your blood sugar is by wandering out the space. It's a lot of years of experience and knowing what she ate what we Bolus and I think that can't be right. Also how the line moved on the CGM. It just wasn't acting the way I expected it to whichever Which made me think that something was up. Okay, but CGM. Give one to everybody. There. That's my advice. I mean, just everybody, if you've got type one diabetes, given the CGM, I would give type two CGM. I don't know if they're covered by insurance, I think they're incredibly helpful

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:17
depends on insulin use for type two diabetes. And other factors, obviously, but insulin use the big one. somebody with type two who is on insulin is going to have sort of priority, I guess, in terms of the ability to get one. So but I would 100% mean, if I was going to lobby for something, I would say everybody with diabetes should have a continuous glucose meter. Because that's the only way that you're actually going to see trends based on the variables in your life.

Scott Benner 15:49
Right? I put up an episode today. It's an after dark with this 27 year old girl who said that when she was younger, they told her she was brittle, because her blood sugar's would bounce up and down, up and down. By the way, she's 27. She only had diabetes for 17 years. So it's in the last 20 years. Somebody told her she was brittle. So after I explained to her that that probably isn't really what was happening to her. All I could think was that she had a CGM. Maybe it would have like, struck a chord in or maybe she would have seen it, you know what I mean, instead of just guessing and testing when she wanted to. And by the way, all that led to and this is for the doctors. I mean, obviously timing wise CGM is didn't exist for this person. But not having one being told she was brutal, lead to an eating disorder. It led to manipulating her weight with insulin. It led to this anxiety about food she barely eats now, because of it, you know, all this stuff from just not being able to, like, witness what her blood sugar was doing and make some cogent decisions based on it. Right. So CGM, I mean, listen, Dexcom is a sponsor, but I still I just want to speak honestly here like, you know, I'm not trying to skirt anything. Big difference between g7 and libre three, like, no right

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:06
now, and that's it's a good point to bring up because I think all the sensors honestly have fair enough similarity and accuracy. What may be the difference person to person is how their body actually interacts with that sensor. Right? I mean, I've said before, I don't know anything about the new Medtronic sensor, the newest one with their seven ATG insulin pump system. I've had people have told me it's a lot better for them compared to previous models. The previous models never worked for me. But Dexcom has always worked very well for me. And prior to going off the market in 2010 ish. I think Abbott used to be called the Navigator. That one was phenomenal. It worked wonderful. I switched to Dexcom it works similar and accuracy now is quite great. The libre as well, I haven't used it in yours. But there are a lot of people that actually prefer that to Dexcom. Right. So there are I think, accuracy. They're similar. But then person to person, you may also have adhesive issues. So don't discard somebody's comments about one system. Because the other systems may work in terms of accuracy, but it may work for other things like adhesives, skin issues under the skin, you know, reactivity and all that kind of stuff.

Scott Benner 18:31
I've seen people who can't wear a certain sensor just doesn't even give them a reasonable reading. And right, who knows, you know, they, I mean, you're not you're never there, but they say I'm hydrated. They say, you know, I did the right things when I put it on and they've tried sometimes for months and eventually abandoned them go to the other company or whatnot, is the sensor from Medtronic called a guardian still did they just keep that name? through it. It's just the newer one, or I wonder if they renamed it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:58
I think it's still the Guardian, I'd actually have to check. But it's it's the newest that works with their seven ATG system. So

Scott Benner 19:06
there's Dexcom libre, Medtronic, there's the Sensi onyx, the implantable one, ever since ever since. Right, right. Yeah. And is that it at the moment?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:18
here and I'm trying to think here in the United States. That is

Scott Benner 19:23
it. Yeah. And those are the ones that are that are accurate enough for somebody to dose insulin from them. There's a crap ton of them now that are for like exercise and stuff like that. But yeah, those are not

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:34
right. Those are not what would be recommended to use for dosing. Oh,

Scott Benner 19:40
Jenny, that was a big word out of you recommended. Okay.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:46
Not usually use big words. No, no, I

Scott Benner 19:48
mean it I thought it had a lot of implication when you said it. Maybe I was reading more into it. But no, you're not saying they work but they're not recommended.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:55
They're not recommended mainly because they're not you know, There's no indication on them.

Scott Benner 20:02
They haven't gone through the FDA process, right? That they're not going to pair with AI D systems or, you know any of that. Right? And really, you know, for doctors who are listening who might not know, I do think we should dig into it for a second, I'm just gonna let you speak from your own experience. But what is the difference between managing type one diabetes or insulin with diabetes with a CGM or without a CGM? Oh,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:28
it's night and day. Really, I mean, as and I think I've said before, in other episodes about the number of times I was doing finger sticks to gather enough information in my day, to make enough decisions about things right, my doctor had written my prescription for 15 test trips a day, just so that insurance would give me enough test strips. And I wanted all of that information at my fingertips are now very happy since about 2005. That I don't have to do that. finger sticks every day. But there's a really good graphic that came out eons ago, when sensors really first sort of started to get a foot in the door. And it gave a graph a 24 hour graph of, I think it was four or six finger sticks on the graph at different times of the day. And then what brought in the visibility of the sensor, kind of what the sensor provides is an overlay behind all of that of the ups and downs from every five minutes of a sensor reading, compared to just the four to six finger sticks values. So I know you've said before, too, you thought you guys were doing really well. When Arden was little right, you'd put her to bed at a certain number. she'd wake up at this number. But then once you had to CGM, you could see that she was going hypo overnight, right? Yeah. And landing in a place that you thought was good. Without the sensor, you didn't know that was happening. I also didn't know where there were problems in the aftermath of my meals, despite doing what is a lot of finger sticks in a day. Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:03
in the time, it took you to say that I with my pen in my hand, and my whiteboard in front of me, wrote down mental health, physical impacts, accuracy, being able to adjust your blood sugar. Well, being able to deal with difficult foods with insulin better being ready to pair with an algorithm. Those are just the reasons that I could think of in two minutes to have a seat salutely. So absolutely. It's not a fancy thing. It's not an extra it's not a nice to have like it really is. In my mind. It should be the first thing like you should get one in the hospital, when you're diagnosed. All these things that you hear people talk about years of diabetes, you know, the things old timers talk about the problems they have, I think many of them are completely alleviated with a with a CGM. Absolutely.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:52
And I think in terms of where it should be prescribed in hospital would be great. Because if you've got it in the hospital, you would at least have an education component to what you're seeing, you know, sending somebody home with a prescription newly diagnosed and then they're supposed to slap on this device and make heads and tails out of what they're actually seeing, along with all of these other things that our new variables to pay attention to. That's an overload. It really is. Can it help if they get quick intervention of information after they get it? Yes, and it can make a big difference from the beginning. But it just goes to also demonstrate how important it is that follow up right after diagnosis with all of this stuff being valuable. It's it's just really,

Scott Benner 23:43
even for people who are not like, dialed in super motivated about their diabetes, right? People who are just getting by not paying a ton of attention to it, let them see this number is when I don't feel good. Or this you know, I didn't know I started feeling dizzy at this number, but I still had time to do something about it before I got really low. Like those. I think that showing people those, those little guardrails maybe allows them to retrain their brain over time, to the point where they don't even know they're doing it. You know, until one day someone just says, Oh, I got a beeping it and wherever they ended up setting their, you know their CGM to beat that. I know when I'm 95 Diagonal down, I need like 10 carbs, that's another thing they would know before they would test their blood sugar See 95 And they Oh my god, this is perfect. And then you know, end up low a half an hour later. And that's when the mental part comes in the the instability is like, this is unknowable, and I'm never gonna figure this out. It doesn't make any sense because without that data, it doesn't make sense plus, it helps the doctor you know, it does

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:47
and the you know, we're talking about general medicine, primary care who may be working with more of the type two population. That also means that you now have to do a bit of homework and understanding and live Learning how to read reports, if you are going to prescribe these, being the primary person, this person with diabetes is coming back to, to relay information, you have to know what you're looking at and how to help them, you know, maybe you've talked to them before about not drinking two glasses of orange juice every single morning, hey, this isn't good for your blood, sugar, et cetera. Well, now that there's information and a view of what that actually does, that has to be brought back into the conversation, if that's the point you were trying to make. And sometimes it's just one point at a time, it's one point per visit,

Scott Benner 25:35
it also helps people see the impacts of certain like foods to that they think are like Staples, like great stuff for them, but maybe they'll like, I don't know, maybe the third time they have mashed potatoes, they'll think I you know, that's not worth my blood sugar be in 250. For the next three hours, I'm gonna have, you know, a smaller amount or not eat this anymore, do something different to it, like all kinds of small things. We're always telling people to do the right thing. And then not giving them the tools to do it with, you know, or even the direction to do it with you just say you should eat better. exercise more, what does what does all that mean? You know, like, it's nice to say, but it's not actionable. Right? My brother is a type two, he got a hold of samples of a G six, get G six samples on time, enough to keep him going for like a month. And the significance was huge, like things that a doctor had been saying to him for years that he thought he understood, it turns out, he didn't understand that at all. And he was telling me, he understood, I get what they're saying, you know, and then he wears the CGM for three, three weeks, you know, a month and boom, he understands it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:39
He's like, Oh, that's what happened. That's what

Scott Benner 26:44
they meant. I didn't get it. So anyway, I mean, again, back to insurance, everyone who can get it should get it. And even people who, you know, can't, Medicare, right covers Dexcom, I know, I'm pretty sure for Dexcom, these things are only going to get more and more popular and covered as time goes on, in my opinion, you should start at, we want you to have these things. Let's see if we can get your insurance to cover it. If not, you know what wouldn't be wrong to say to somebody, if your employer is self pay, maybe you should go talk to them. Because they might say okay to this for you, but you have no idea what you can work out. And as a doctor, I think that's the minimum you should understand to say to somebody, right, that's all that's what I got, there. We missing anything with this stuff, and what you want doctors to know about them. I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:36
don't think I you know, I mentioned it before in terms of technology really takes some desire to learn about in order to be able to know what you're recommending to your patients. And so, you know, take some of your time, whether it's a class that you take, that you don't really think is purposeful for you that somebody is going to come in from Dexcom, or somebody is going to come in, you know, from Avid or whatever it might be. And you're like, whatever. But you know what you might grasp something from it. There are a lot of actual online tutorials. So you don't even have to go and sit in a class, though, do an online tutorial, but how does the system work? What type of information does it give, and they're all professional based tutorials. So it might take you 15 or 20 minutes, but you know what, now you can better serve your patients, you're actually more informed. And that goes across the board for the technology. Because not only do we have the continuous glucose monitors and the blood glucose meters, but we also have apps and things that sync with them. So from a clinical standpoint, the ability to get that information from somebody and be able to make sense of it and send them some thoughts back or in a visit, discuss that with them becomes even more for facilitating their well being.

Scott Benner 28:55
There should be some continuing education for you. You know, diabetes, insulin, that the technology I mean, come on, like you have to understand how that works. And I don't know how you ever buy a car, and then had the person show you the car, but they didn't know how it works. And all you can do is sit there and think you work here. Shouldn't you know this? Did you know this? Yeah. What do you mean, you don't know what this switch does? You work here, you only sell for cars. You don't know what the switch is? That feeling that immediately removes your ability to trust the person you're talking to? Yes. Right. And, and what Jenny's saying about educating yourself about how these systems work, so you can speak about them is it's not just about that. It's not just about helping the person feel better and not going like Oh, they'll figure it out. You know, it's about them trusting you moving forward. Yes, it really is. You shoot yourself in the foot and it's hard to get back from it. I've had that experience where a physician has said something so bad bonkers, that I was like, Oh, now I know not to listen to them anymore, which isn't fair either. You don't mean like, but it is how it makes you feel. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:08
in today's world of, again, technology, technology being an online driven review system, honestly, shooting yourself in the foot is kind of a bottom of the barrel way of saying it. There's so much feedback that's given in online forums and everything in all different types of professions that you can make one little kind of misstep, and you're getting a bad review. And then it's bad review after nobody coming to you after somebody commenting. It's that it's sort of just snowball.

Scott Benner 30:44
Yeah, you're in business to might be important for people to think that you're a value to them. Yeah. Especially in a world where by the way, people now can go to walk in clinics and get prescriptions if they needed. Even some people have, through their insurance through their employers have access to physicians now. Like, Yeah, everybody's not just going to come to you because you're there. But let's go through real quickly, Jenny, what everybody said, Oh, yes, for CGM, SB gems. My doctor didn't even tell me to watch even a YouTube video. He just prescribed it and left me on my own. So that's such a crazy idea. Here. Take this it does this good luck.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:22
Right. Yeah, I know. I mean, when I and I don't know what you guys had when you first got the one because you only started with Dexcom. You never used anything else. Right? Correct. Yeah. So I'm assuming that you got some education given that Arden was a child? Yes.

Scott Benner 31:40
But it felt like they were building the plane as they were flying it because it was so early on. You know, it's like you were learning together in the office with somebody which I appreciated. They, they were like, look, it's new. We don't really know. Right, which I thought that was great. Because we'd also had an experience in the past, where we were told not to use an omni pod. Because I forget, what did they tell us? Or they said Your daughter's to lean for that. And oh, and I was like, I don't know what that means. But we're getting this anyway. And so we got it. I mean, I went with Omni pod originally, because of the just the generally the tubeless nature of it seemed, for a number of reasons like the way to go. It took two years for the endocrinologist to pull me aside one day and say, We want you to know that because of RT and success on Omni pod. We're now writing prescriptions for Omni pod to younger kids that we weren't before. And I said, Why did you tell me all those years ago like not to use it, and in a very quiet tone, the person said to me, it was newer, and we weren't comfortable with it. So we didn't want you using a device we didn't understand. So it had nothing to do with how lean Arden was it had to do with they didn't understand it. They didn't want to take the time to learn it. And so they weren't going to they were going to just push me towards another device. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 32:55
or they had experience with what was already on the market. And in comparison, which wasn't a fair comparison. They were able to say she may be too lean, she may not do well with this or whatever. And again, their comfort level and I find this not as much now but years ago honestly, many offices had a comfort level weren't talking just about insulin pumps with one particular pump. Yeah, that's what they maneuvered everybody toward this pump. Because we know this pump Oh

Scott Benner 33:29
yeah, that was a whole day of somebody saying to me animus ping animus ping, which by the way doesn't exist anymore?

Unknown Speaker 33:34
No, it wasn't good pump.

Scott Benner 33:35
I was on it. Everyone I've ever spoken to says they love it. Absolutely. But Arden is also used Omnipod for she started on a pump when she was four. She's 915 artists been using Omnipod for 15 years. So I think we did okay, but that point of understanding what you're talking about, so that you can actually talk about this person says they should know that CGM 's are extremely important at diagnosis, not knowing exactly how insulin affects you. And all of the other factors that go into managing sugars are very helpful in determining all of your personal factors. Yes. And I wrote a note after that, they just said, Look, patients shouldn't even have to ask for CGM. You shouldn't make a person. They don't know anything about diabetes. You don't I mean, now you're asking them to choose what they're supposed to be. You know, using they don't have any idea this person's like, You got to tell me, you know, she goes on to talk about, about catching loads how important it was, especially for their child. And then this other person says, I'm, uh, I was diagnosed at 29 I needed this the same for the same reasons, right? And then oh, this is interesting. This person had a libre back when back when they were scan only you had to hold the device up to the libre to get that number. And the physician told them that they were scanning it too frequently. You have you ever heard somebody say don't look at it so often.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:51
Yes. Yeah. From a mental health standpoint. I think that there are there are some people obviously who they you Use it. Not quite to their health. But as almost an obsessive, I have to check, I have to check. I have to know where I am. Oh, it's going down. Oh, it's going up. And there's a difference in that versus I need to see where I am because I have this planned. And I need to see what my action is right now. For the coming, you know, plan? Yeah,

Scott Benner 35:21
the best way I've ever found to make people comfortable there is to tell them, Look, let's set more reasonable alarms. And then don't look. Unless the alarm sounding. That's it, but we can't make your high alarm 250. Like, you know, we can't do that,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:35
right? Because then you're gonna miss the mark. And that's going to make you hyper vigilant, again,

Scott Benner 35:39
not gonna be the point. And for a doctor who says, Oh, if I don't make it to 50, the thing will be beeping all the time, I would say to you, you might want to go listen to the Pro Tip series, because it doesn't need to be beeping all the time. It doesn't need to be going high all the time. There's simple ways about using insulin that will help you right, so Okay, agreed. All right. Thank you very much. Yes, of course. Let's do this. Let's move into pumping. But if it doesn't fit here, I'll split it up into two different episodes. That way I have it here. But I can maybe put in its own if it needs to be is that okay? That's fine. I have about 15 minutes where you're going to go through the people's questions. And if we have to come back later and finish up we will. So cool. I wish they would have explained the difference in detail between t slim and Omni pod. Oh, isn't this interesting? In the new device world. This person doesn't even mention Medtronic. They were extremely vague and our toddler is on Omni pod. And so you made this point already in the CGM episode, but you need to understand what these things do. This is Omni pod, this is how it works. Here's why it might be better for you or you are here's what I'm even seeing from people who are using it. This is what the T Slim is. This is what control IQ is like. Do you think that it's possible that doctors just like tube, no tube, you think they're like, it's that simple.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:55
Could be practice to practice, quite honestly, it could be that simple. It could also be, these are the pumps, they all deliver insulin. And I think they're trying to save people from some of the very little tidbits of information that make you different. But I also think that that's really important. From an individual need perspective, really good pediatric practices, I know often will have like pump exploration days, where they'll have you know, all of the different pump options come. And you can walk around almost like a fair, right, you can explore talk to the representative, you can feel it, pick it up push buttons, get kind of an idea of what it would look like feel like you know, you can even like clip it on and see what it would be like to kind of have it dangling on your pants or whatever. But those are all really important things when you as a clinician are recommending something, don't recommend based on your preference. That's the bottom line, you have to really consider what does the person need to know if they are a swimmer? And a competitive swimmer? Well, you might tell them a little bit more about why one may be more optimal than another. But it's still up to them to make the decision.

Scott Benner 38:16
I think they should blend information to like I mean, the person who comes out to explain the device to you is the salesperson, right? So like, you know, okay, here's these are the highlights of the pump, that's great. But also go do some research on your own, and talk to users and get their feedback. And go online and hear what people are saying there. And then blend that together. When you're talking about don't just like you're not a salesman for T slim or for Omnipod you're you know, you can't just go by what the pamphlet says the pamphlets, its marketing, right? So right. I'm not saying that one of them is hiding something or something like that. But it's not going to give you a full understanding of it by just reading the brochure. I mean, that would be like making a decision based on my ad. Like if you hear an ad for something, these are the highlights. You should now go figure out the rest of it. Like you know, don't make a decision based on this. I think that's incredibly important. And it goes back to that thing you said during the CGM. It's like you have to educate yourself on how these things work. And especially with the algorithms now. It's not just the I mean, honestly, before the algorithms pumps were, they were just basic,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:23
basic delivery that makes it easier than taking

Scott Benner 39:27
injections. The idea behind going from MDI to pumping is that with pumping, you gain control over your Basal insulin. You know, you could set up extended boluses squarewave Bolus, things like that. You can vary basil Yeah, right. You know, you could temporary basil your insulin completely off if you wanted to, if you were in a situation these are things you can't do with MDI. But it wasn't some like insane leap. Like it was just here's the extra things you to me. It's amazing and it's incredibly helpful. But now you're gonna go from those Is to these algorithms, they all are aiming for the same thing, but doing those things differently. And you should know the differences. It just makes sense to me. Because when I stop and think about, where are doctors going to struggle in the coming years with algorithms? I think of it's like little things like fat and protein becomes really important. Right? Like, you know, because a doctor is gonna, like, say, oh, no, the thing does it. But it doesn't. It doesn't know, the thing doesn't know that there's a bunch of fat and the carbs that you told him about at one o'clock and 90 minutes later, your blood sugar's gonna start going up. And then people are like, Well, what should I do? Should I wait for the thing to do it? The thing is gonna take, I mean, honestly, hours to make another decision. And to

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:44
clarify, will the thing do it? It'll do it? Well, yeah. But as you just said, it'll take hours of time, because all the systems are based on with their algorithm are based on an sort of an extended time of action of our rapid acting influence, which are not rapid. It's a horrible word, whoever came up with that word for today's insulin, yes, it's faster than what I used originally, but it's not rapid, as fast

Scott Benner 41:11
as the word makes it sounds correct. If the algorithm is thinking on a, I don't know, on a six hour timeframe, then your blood sugar shoots up an hour after you eat. And five hours later, the algorithms gonna be like, Oh, we should probably be more aggressive with this, you know, that happens to you at two meals, well, then this, I don't know what good the algorithm is to you at that point, like, you know, if your blood sugar in the 200. Now, if it's holding your blood sugar at 200, and eventually gets it back down, I see the doctors argument, this is way better than these people were doing before. And it is yeah, and I understand that, but a tiny bit of a tiny bit of understanding how insulin works. And a tiny bit of understanding how the algorithm works could lead you to tell them, here's a secondary Bolus maybe we could make that would help us, which the company isn't going to tell you about, because they're not legally allowed. That's not how that works. Like the FDA doesn't allow insulin pump manufacturers to direct you about how to use insulin. That's just the thing that they're not allowed to do. What you're

Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:09
getting into is the idea that, and we've been talking about all along is that as a clinician, you have to educate yourself. Right? There are so many things that you learn as somebody with diabetes, because of the huge benefit of continuous glucose monitors. And when you fold that continuous information of what your glucose is doing, into a system that can now dose insulin, along with that, you have to know how to look at the data to help somebody best make decisions for their life. I mean, we started MDI, it is what it is you could Bolus 16 times a day and sort of mimic what you think you need to do. Sure, go ahead, but it's not going to have precision, conventional pumping. Next line, you've got some smart features, but who's the driver, the person, the person drives the the use of those precision parts of that technology. And then algorithms bring it even further. But not far enough. Our algorithms are not AI, right? They're not learning. They're not saying Oh, every Friday night pizza is coming in, you got to be ready for this. It's not there yet. So the smart driver is still the human. And the human needs the right information in order to be able to navigate blood sugars in a target range that's going to keep them healthy, long term,

Scott Benner 43:32
we made a significant adjustment last night to get Arden's blood sugar down. We didn't wait for the algorithm to do it. We were like, No, I know what to do here like to get this down and did not cause a low or anything like that afterwards. I think maybe I'm just as you were talking, I thought maybe doctors should do ride alongs with people who have type one, right? Because you always hear my endo is terrific. They have type one diabetes, like people say that all the time. Like I hate to say it, but my endo is better because they have type one my nurse practitioner knows, I mean, listen, you have type one, right, like so. I do. Wonder if that's not doable. I wonder if doctors couldn't just like, live a day with a patient every once in a while. Just I mean, honestly, that's how you if you lived here for a week, you wouldn't, you'd know everything you needed to know.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:17
But I wouldn't even say to go there. If you are a doctor who is prescribing these, an easier ride along really would be take the product, put it on your body and use it as if you were somebody with diabetes as if you were following the directions that you're giving people to walk out of your office with. Right? Yeah, you know, look up your carbs. Check what is happening before you go for a run, look at your data and know it's not going to reflect shifts like somebody with diabetes has, but it'll get you in the mindset of all of the considerations along with using this piece of technology that is delivering insulin, which is not a silly medication. Even

Scott Benner 45:05
like, maybe this is the right along idea. Maybe it's Can't you just follow one of your patients for a week? Like, can you get somebody like get there? They say, Look, I'm trying to learn more about all this, would you help me? I'm gonna follow your CGM. I know that sounds crazy. But for a few days, just text me, I just ate this, it was this many carbs like that, like, here's how much insulin I put it, it wouldn't take you long to like, go, okay, I get this. And now you've had this, you take this thing you take time, one time. And now you can take what you learned and give it to everybody. It's just none of you are going to do that. I know when I said let me just tell you right now, that's the best idea I've ever heard. So if you're a doctor trying to help people with type one, following a type one, knowing what they when they ate it, and how much insulin they got, then watching their CGM, you would understand in no time at all what was happening. And you'd be able to not only just help that person, but you'd be able to transfer that knowledge on to other people. So anyway, you would I'm 100%. Right about that. I'm not I'm not backing down off of that, quickly, if this person says hey, if you're having issues with like a glucose monitor, or a pump or something, it would be lovely if the doctor would help us when we need help with our insurance, oh, writing letters of medical necessity, things like that, you know, don't just give people a script and then go, Oh, it didn't work out. That's tough. There are times they need you to step up. I would also say that giving somebody an arbitrary amount of time before they're allowed to have a device, I don't think makes a ton of sense,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:37
is ridiculous. It needs to be individualized. Yes. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 46:40
mean, I get that my assumption is, is that they've had this experience with insurance companies. And they know that the insurance companies deny in the beginning, but that's also you can get around that, and you know it. So you know, people are begging for insulin pumps, just telling them Oh, it has to be six months, or the practice has a rule. You have to be on MDI for a year, correct. You know, I mean, a year Jesus, you can't figure it out, you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 47:04
yeah, I was gonna say that, that's often what it actually boils down to is a protocol that's within the practice, or within the department or whatever, that says, you have to meet all of these pieces. And typically, it takes six months. So we're gonna say, within about six months, then we can start working towards getting you a pump. Yeah, but again, that everybody is so different in their life, and has so many different variables and needs, that you really have to throw those protocols out. And you have to say, well, you know what, this person definitely needs a weight, there is a lot going on here, this person could definitely have it within the next month, because they need it and they, they get it, they're at a higher level of learning, or they've reached certain, you know, points of education that are already important. So individualize. Okay,

Scott Benner 47:58
thank you, Jenny. I'm gonna leave a voice note here for both of us. So when we come back and re record again, we're going to talk about why insulin pumps are so important. What they do for people, they're not just replacements for injections, and what value they'd get out of pumping and what value they'd get out of an algorithm. And we're gonna actually like continue this conversation next time you're back. Fantastic. Thank you so much, of course.

A huge thanks to Omni pod, not just my longest sponsor, but my first one Omni pod.com/juice box. If you love the podcast, and you love tubeless insulin pumps, this link is for you. Omni pod.com/juice box. A huge thanks to touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Check them out on their website touched by type one.org or on Facebook and Instagram. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. To continue this conversation jump now to Episode 1126. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1124 Fifty Fifty Custody

Ethan's ex told him about the podcast and they are both active in the management of their type 1 daughter.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1124 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Ethan and his ex have a 14 year old daughter who was diagnosed with type one diabetes when she was 11. Today I'll be speaking with Ethan to learn more about his daughter who's very athletic plays volleyball and spends her time 5050 Between her mom and dad's house. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that it really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two and gestational diabetes, you're going to see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smartphone device. dexcom.com/juicebox This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox.

Ethan 2:09
I'm Ethan. I am a proud parent of a type one athletic daughter who's 14 Getting ready to start high school. Again, very athletic. She's a great volleyball player. And this is our we're embarking on our third year of this new lifestyle change of diabetes

Scott Benner 2:34
event. She was diagnosed when she was 11.

Ethan 2:39
Yeah, she went into DKA in September 2020 2020.

Scott Benner 2:42
Wow. Okay, we'll talk about that in a minute. But first, tell people what you said before we started recording

Ethan 2:52
that this was a fairly year ago I've ever seen something on Facebook posting. I think there's like three questions more like along the lines of, you know, being a parent of, but I don't remember the gist of it, honestly. So I tried to look it up. I'm like, Okay, well, let's just do this. This is a diabetic podcast. So let's go for it. But yeah, I don't really remember the

Scott Benner 3:15
context of it. The schedule is so far out in the future that so here's what ends up happening is I start getting pressured around this time of year, like mid mid July, August. And people are like, I want to be on the show and be on the show. I'm like alright, well, my schedule is full like right now. Ethan, if you signed up to be on the show today, I think I don't have an opening until third week of January. February is almost full already. So that's the situation we find ourselves in. And so because people are trying to jump on the schedule, because it fills so quickly, their length of time to be on the show like just the record is sometimes it's sometimes it's a year after you sign up and then six months after that for your episode. It takes 18 months to hear your voice on the podcast basically.

Ethan 4:06
Oh wow. Really? Okay, so that's okay, I was gonna I was actually going to send it to the end like when when would the expected to have this run but

Scott Benner 4:13
your daughter should be able to listen to it at her wedding? I think for sure. So and I've tried a couple of things to pare it back like I've stopped like I'm not gonna take any more like you know recording for a while and then I just the emails keep coming. I want to talk about this. Oh my god that's a great idea. We should we should talk about I'm gonna have to start putting out episodes twice a day. Yeah, to keep up with but anyway, I appreciate you keeping the appointment even though you were half not sure what it was about anymore. Anyway,

Ethan 4:46
I just remember seeing it and it was a responded to you. It was a schedule. And yeah, you know, a year later here we are at the state was a fast year.

Scott Benner 4:58
It helps you realize that life moves by too quickly. Yeah, exactly. Alright, so your daughter is diagnosed at 11 years old. 2020 NDK. Now, my question is, did you see it coming? Or did it completely surprise you?

Ethan 5:12
It's a great question. Actually, around this time 2020 She started to, to drop some weight. And but you know, it's one of those things that we, you know, her mom and I kind of chalked it up as she's going through a growing spurt, type thing, you know, and, but keeping an eye on it. And what what happened was the night before she actually went into GK, or about a week or so, but definitely the night before, I started noticing that she was drinking a lot of water. And the afternoon before she went in, this was this was a Monday evening. We went to go grab something to eat. And as we're waiting for food, I had ran over to the to the grocery store next door, and she asked me, she's like, what's going on? Like, you know, I just stocked up on water, you're drinking like a fish, you know? And she got home he ate she actually ate more than she ate me, which, you know, sometimes that can be easily done, but not really. And I was like, wow, you know, and I but again, I grew up watching her, like, dropped this way again, thinking because she didn't have like this, this crazy growth spurt in there too, as well. And then, that night, when she was going to bed, I had actually told my mother, I had said, you know, I think she's diabetic. She's like, when I go, she's drinking that this water. I'm just like, there's just something that's not, I'm kind of getting a strange sense that I think I think she needs to be checked. And then that next morning, I was actually I work from home and I was I was working in, and I wouldn't check on her. Because she was she was just starting off because this was COVID Still, there's still during a pandemic. So she was homeschool. So she wouldn't get on live for another few hours, like at least know that three hours by time I was up. So so there was some gap. And luckily, you know, grandma was available and had went to go, she was actually leaving for work. But something held her around that day, that morning and went in her room and had seen that she actually had gotten sick and then that's where I was just like I just kicked into, I have to take her in, you know, not you know to chalking it up with a stomach bug or anything like that. I'm like she has to go in. So at that point, when she got to the ER which was during the pandemic was kind of difficult to get her in as well because it was like you know, is it COVID Like that this is I would COVID was so far away from my mind at that point. I was and I don't have any experience with diabetes but it was just that instinct there.

Scott Benner 8:04
What made you think diabetes though the day or two before

Ethan 8:08
don't her water intake

Scott Benner 8:09
but that that told you something so you knew a little bit about it?

Ethan 8:13
That's pretty much yeah, that's kind of all like exposure wise, but the water intake I thought was was our water intake had like triple like it was the she drinks water we know but not the way how she was okay,

Scott Benner 8:29
all right, so Okay, great. So you snap into action you take her to the hospital I imagine and and COVID makes it a little weird but you get in what are the what do you learn about our blood sugar after she's admitted

Ethan 8:41
after she was admitted because we had to kind of keep swapping in and out I wasn't in there when her her first diagnosis of her blood sugar's I can't remember exactly the range and it's remember getting a sheet because she was actually the she had to get transferred to a children's hospital. And which was about an hour away. So we were waiting for transport and that's where I got the kids. They're only leaving one parent at a time. I don't want my came out and said she's Yeah, they they. They diagnosed her as being a diabetic.

Scott Benner 9:11
Are you guys together? No. One co parent. Okay. So she was with you? When when when you figured it out? Do you have like time later to go back? Like because of the co parenting situation? Was your ex thinking? Um, if she was your ex I'm sorry. Was she was she thinking the same thing? Did she notice stuff going on? Were you communicating it? What was that process like prior to being at the hospital? We

Ethan 9:39
both knew there was the the weight loss and the eating more. I had not yet voiced my concern. Like I said it was at night the night before it's we're like it triggered and we have to get around so I hadn't even made that call yet. This was like, while I was really just thinking this lesson 12 HOURS. Here we go, I think. Yeah, yeah. But leading up to that, you know, she had like she's, you know, like I said earlier, we were kind of chalking it up as to like, she's going through, you know, her gross for being a kid. Yeah.

Scott Benner 10:12
You just think she's stretching out right. Yeah. Losing losing weight because she's getting taller. Yeah, I think that's what everybody thinks. So, okay, so she was in DKA. So did they keep her for a number of days?

Ethan 10:23
Yes, she was in. Pick you for four days.

Scott Benner 10:29
That seems about right. Now, when she comes home, she go to her mom's she goes to you.

Ethan 10:36
When she got discharged, she came. We have a 5050 split. When she got discharged, she came home to me for for the for that for our scheduled visit visitation.

Scott Benner 10:44
That's what I was gonna say like, did it happen to fall on your day? Is that how it worked out?

Ethan 10:48
Yeah. If you happen to her discharge happened to fall during my time? Yes. So

Scott Benner 10:52
then how do you guys learn about this? You learn about it. I don't know what your relationships like I guess. But are you in the same room learning about this? Are you gathering information and sharing it back and forth with each other? How

Ethan 11:05
does that we were actually in we were both there spending the night? I think there's only one night to where we actually were not in there together. But we're both learning it they had us both on the same schedule. No. Crash Course of the same Yeah,

Scott Benner 11:20
that's good. It really is. Because I think when the the information gets disseminated to one person, I don't know. It's tough, right? Like you don't know what, you don't always know what to share. And, you know, there's a lot of questions. And if you're not the same house, when the questions arise, it might be difficult. So, it

Ethan 11:35
we still do that to this day through, you know, like I said, three years into this, if there's any questions or any like, you know, because this is this is that thing, this is that, unfortunately, the thing with diabetes, it's every day every second. So there is the, you know, the reassurance that we do co parenting that we give each other about, you know, you don't can't feel bad if, or don't be too hard on yourself, if she has a pattern to where she is kind of high or she's low. It just, it is kind of winging it, we do have a good exchange communication of okay, this is her what her pattern was for, like the last five days that she was over there, or here. This is what I'm experiencing. Either she's resistant or She's sensitive, just kind of watch out type thing. Yeah. And then you know, it's that first night, like for last night because that was her first night home for five days. And you kind of have to get used to what's been going on for the for the first couple days. But again, it's nothing that static because it's it's

Scott Benner 12:37
changes constantly. It

Ethan 12:38
really exactly right. I mean

Scott Benner 12:41
Dexcom G seven offers an easier way to manage diabetes without finger sticks. It is a simple CGM system that delivers real time glucose numbers to your smartphone, your smartwatch. And it effortlessly allows you to see your glucose levels and where they're headed. My daughter is wearing a Dexcom g7 Right now, and I can't recommend it enough. Whether you have commercial insurance, Medicare coverage, or no CGM coverage at all Dexcom can help you go to my link dexcom.com/juice box and look for that button that says Get a free benefits check. That'll get you going with Dexcom. When you're there, check out the Dexcom clarity app where the follow Did you know that people can follow your Dexcom up to 10 people can follow you. Right now I'm following my daughter but my wife is also following her. Her roommates at school are following her. So I guess Arden is being followed right now by five people who are concerned for her health and welfare. And you can do the same thing. School Nurses, your neighbor, people in your family. Everyone can have access to that information if you want them to have it. Or if you're an adult and you don't want anyone to know you don't have to share with anybody. It's completely up to you dexcom.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. And when you use my link to learn about Dexcom you're supporting the podcast. If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store G vo Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G vo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon Calm, slash juicebox G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma, visit G voc glucagon.com/risk. For safety information.

Ethan 15:17
It doesn't matter what she's eating or whatever it just, it's just, you just kind of had to adapt to it. You know, just it was it

Scott Benner 15:25
was your co parenting situation harmonious before the diagnosis?

Ethan 15:31
We were getting there. Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 15:32
Okay. Has it gotten? I don't care how it was. My question is, does it has it gotten better? Or worse than the diagnosis?

Ethan 15:39
It's gotten better, actually. Because I think we had to kind of put everything aside and realize, you

Scott Benner 15:44
know, that's our team. Good for you. Is seriously and to your, you know, to your I don't know what to call our former partner.

Ethan 15:53
Sheila, she listened. So I'm pretty sure I'll tell him when this one comes out. Yeah, she's actually the one who told me about you. Smosh.

Scott Benner 15:59
That's great. Well, I just I'm really impressed with how you're handling it. Is this what I wanted to say? But I wasn't sure if you were married or not. So I don't know if I'm saying x or if I'm say, anyway, doesn't matter to me. But I think it's been handled really well. It's impressive that you move forward so well. And that you've that you've not just kept it harmonious, but made it better for your daughter. It's really wonderful. Do you guys have other kids together? No. Okay, so this is the one now do we have we figured out? Are there autoimmune issues on anybody's family sides?

Ethan 16:31
Um, not? On my it's more thinking on hers, but it's not. I think it's a second would be my daughter's second cousin. So I don't think who's was also type one. Okay. But I think that from based on if I remember correctly from a doctor is like, that's not a an actual connection. Because

Scott Benner 16:50
the doctor can say whatever he wants, it seems like I can actually

Ethan 16:54
sound something like if it was not on the maternal side, I can't remember. But it was like, maybe there's two different too far of a distance between the second because yeah, it would be your second cousin.

Scott Benner 17:05
Does your daughter have any other autoimmune issues?

Ethan 17:07
Not that I'm aware of right now? No.

Scott Benner 17:09
Are you looking for something to knock on effect? You're like, Wait

Ethan 17:12
a minute. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Scott Benner 17:15
No, why? Okay, that's terrific. So what was her management? Like out of the hospital? I'm assuming like MDI, would they give her pins or needles?

Ethan 17:27
That's a good question. We actually, were I kind of talked about this all the time about how good of a program that we see, you know, some people on Facebook or other groups that are who are trying to adjust and adapt so they can kind of say, how I kind of chalk it up as they tell us old school to where it was John. It was pins. Yeah, she was on pins. And then she didn't get her her CGM, or go to go to the pod until like six months, six plus months after.

Scott Benner 18:03
Okay, six months was the CGM first. The CGM was ferocious. Okay. And then she got a pump soon after.

Ethan 18:11
Clearly close. Yeah, they're probably pretty close on top of each other. Yeah.

Scott Benner 18:16
What leads you to get those devices? Is that your doctor saying you should do this? Or is it you checking out? You know what other people are doing?

Ethan 18:25
It was more of a research and just trying to be really kind of being really realistic of having Hey, this there is this tool, you have to understand that this technology is not going to always be 100%. But it does give you some peace of mind, especially with her going back to school. And being away. How are we going to have visibility on and helping her helping her assist remotely? Yeah, and that was that was a decision to go with the pod and CGM.

Scott Benner 18:53
It's a great idea, honestly. Okay, so she's going into high school now. You said she's playing sports? How is she making out during activity? Yeah,

Ethan 19:01
she was she was playing volleyball. About a year or so or two before? Maybe two before she like before diagnosis. And she, you know, she hasn't let it stopped or stop or at all? Yeah, she, I mean, this kid is, is constantly working out trying to improve her game. She just stayed, doesn't she? It's hard to get her off the court. But managing it she does really good. There is a like I said that's the other thing was having the ability to see with the CGM and her with her her pump to see what's going on. But knowing, okay, you're going to go from, you know, one clinic or from 290 minute to two hour practice, to another practice. And I mean when I say that when I say another word, sometimes there's probably 90 minutes maybe in between. Yeah, so it's like trying to kind of carve But begin where are you at? And, you know, I get it too. I was actually you know what you were, you're not real pilot 100, you know, but you kind of you have to kind of refuel that. So that's still a learning curve, but it's gotten better, you know. But then also during games and stuff, even though with the technology, sometimes she loses connectivity in because she plays a club ball. And with all the Bluetooth interference, it's not pleasant sometimes because you just have to really kind of go off of her feelings or how she's looking. Because you won't see the you won't stay connected all the time. What pump is she using? She's using the

Scott Benner 20:41
Omnipod dash dash, okay, no algorithm. No, no. Okay. So, alright, so you're using the connection just to see what her blood sugar is? And do you find that volleyball is like an adrenaline thing? Is her blood sugar tried to get high? Or does the activity bring it down?

Ethan 20:59
That's a great question. The beginning was like when I said in the beginning, like, I would say the first six, seven months after like, when she had her first season. It was anything was was bringing her blood sugar's out. I mean, just like, Okay, you're going high. Let's go for a walk. You know, it was just to go for a brisk walk for 10 or 15 minutes it was bringing her down. And I would say now for like the last two years, it's been the complete opposite with what I think when she hit her. When her hormones her teenage hormones started coming in and everything playing a factor. It actually became more of a resistance. She doesn't go down as easily when she's in, in very heavy sports.

Scott Benner 21:46
Okay, yeah, no, I was gonna say she's right at the age where I was assuming that that was happening. So you're gonna see it, it changes pretty significantly. Yeah,

Ethan 21:56
she's not dropping like she she you know, coming out. It's not, you know, that's not the the out anymore, you know of, okay, you're kind of high. Let's go ahead and do something and get you moving. Or no, the only time that that seems to work with activity is really kind of like throwing her in a pool.

Scott Benner 22:11
Swimming. That's it. Yeah. Makes her job. Yeah, that's me. That's a lot of anaerobic activity. The dash is

Ethan 22:20
really just kind of just sitting in there. Oh, really?

Scott Benner 22:22
Oh, she's just chilling out and relaxing. Yeah, just

Ethan 22:25
chilling out and relaxing. She can start to drop. That's interesting.

Scott Benner 22:29
Okay, so let's see. How do you set your your Can I quit? What should I call your ex? You're sure you're like, what?

Ethan 22:41
How to deal with it later, right?

Scott Benner 22:44
There's nothing to do I just want to use the right phrasing. I don't know the lady the like the person. I don't know. How did her mom find the podcast? Did she tell you about

Ethan 22:54
Facebook? I honestly think he just on social media, possibly Facebook. And

Scott Benner 22:59
I'm assuming it was valuable enough to her that then she told you about it. Correct? Yeah. Do you listen?

Ethan 23:05
I've listened to a few. I'm not an avid listener, but I have listened to a few of them. Don't ask me which ones right now. Because I have to be able to tell you

Scott Benner 23:14
they were they more management based or conversational? They were more conversational if I remember correctly. Interesting. Okay. Is her mom doing stuff with her management that she got from the podcast? And then you kind of go along with it and it's working. So you're like, that's fine.

Ethan 23:32
I know it was I believe there was one podcast where it was the how was it a bit about like, not being afraid of of Ebola seen you know not being afraid of insulin?

Scott Benner 23:47
Was that is that something you were struggling with?

Ethan 23:51
The lifestyle i mean i There are some times to where I can be a little hesitant on giving her and that's one thing to that's good about the that I personally like about the the Omni is it's you know I can just increase her when she needs to be increased or you know I'm we're not afraid to change set any of her Yeah, any of the settings her Basal she knew her Basal needs to be increased or you okay, you're going higher or even suspending or I mean, that's one thing you know, especially with her being active, depends on what range she is. Maybe she needs to be suspended for for duration or okay. Yeah, she suspended that case. She's going back up. Okay, let's turn it back on. So yeah, there's that definitely that flexibility

Scott Benner 24:32
is incumbent upon me Ethan to tell you that if you want to suspend Basal insulin, you should do a Temp Basal decrease of 100%. Because if you suspend insulin, it won't come back on. So you don't want to put yourself in a situation where you turn off basil forget to turn it back on. So you can do a Temp Basal and then set it for an amount of time and then at the end of the time it pops back.

Ethan 24:55
Absolutely correct. And that's actually what we kind of just use that jargon is suspended In short, it is it is a set Temp Basal that we're actually doing.

Scott Benner 25:05
I'm just, you know, cuz we're making a podcast and everything, covering the bases. Yeah. Don't suspend your Basal people like, cuz it won't come back on, you have to do tasks, right? Yeah. All right. So you like the flexibility of the insulin pump? Would you call yourself? If I had to say one of you? Was the main caregiver of diabetes? Would it be you or her mom?

Ethan 25:25
I think we're actually pretty equal. Okay.

Scott Benner 25:29
You think you get you guys do you have basically the same style of management, there

Ethan 25:35
is some difference to where, like, I think there's, there's, there's a slight difference on how we address winds went to over I wouldn't say over Bolus, but to give me an extra Bolus or give me extra insulin. Like I said, I more to be a little timid, of, and concern with the lows. Not in saying that she's not but a little bit more of a, I would say a little more aggressive than I am when it comes to that. So there's that slight difference there. But like I said, either, but we are completely equal when it comes to making the judgments that our daughter needs at that time.

Scott Benner 26:15
I have to tell you, this is very interesting. Because I've I've recorded with people who are, you know, separated divorced, whatever, co parent kids, and you listening to you talk, you're, you're it feels like you're like walking through like a field of landmines. And there are women who come on, and I'm like, so you know, does your axe and they're like, no, he's an idiot. And I'm like, Okay. I know I'm generalizing. But it just feels like, more often the ladies are willing to be like, you know, direct and guys are always like, no, she's lovely. Everything's fine. Like, I'm not trying to say she would let a low blood sugar. I certainly didn't mean that's when you made me laugh with the like, no, no, she doesn't do that. Like you corrected yourself. But I understood what you meant, like nobody's letting your kid be low. But but your your, your ex is more aggressive. And you're more timid about it. Now, is that a personality thing? Or is that something that you've had an experience with? With insulin? It's made you feel that way?

Ethan 27:16
Well, that's a good question, because I've experienced her getting sick twice. afterwards. And what Well, there was one that was really bad to where she came home from school. She had this like, grayish look on her when I picked her up from school and she said she was feeling fine, but I can again, just when those instinct things like something was kind of off and later that that evening, the he had an exorcism, Exorcist, sewed the delivery like, and so yeah, I mean projectile. But no, she's not gonna be having saying that. But she did. And it was having to bring her back up. Yeah, because she was low and okay. And she's not wanting to eat. So I'm on with her Endo. Like, and right before she did that I was I taught her and because I'm like, How do I deal with because she's not like, I know, I had to bring her up. And I did check for ketones and she had moderate ketones at the time. And I'm like, Okay, I ketones me and she needs insulin. She doesn't want to eat how do I get carbs in her? You know, she's not wanting any juice. She's just been and I get it? She was filming? Well, yeah. So her endo had told me all you guys gotta gotta keep bringing it up. And I'm actually I was I was on the phone with her. Grandma came out and said she's getting because I was I think the inner light said, If she starts to vomit, and call her back and just watch it because that can be me hurt. Her ketones gotten large. And as I was hanging up, that's where I got the she's getting sick. And and that was one that was really when I say she was low. She was in like the 50s If I remember and trying to bring that up, and then knowing I have to give her insulin.

Scott Benner 29:01
So she was sick. She was like what we call real people sick. It wasn't like the she had an illness of some sort. And then she, by the way, when you said we had an exorcism, I was like, how are these people like doing exorcisms in their house? Like what do I have to ask about next? And then you were like exorcist and I was like, oh, okay, I know what he's talking about. It's all about bombing. So, but But are you guys, but you had this experience? And it was scary enough to that it's stuck. Yeah. Yeah. But she's not sick all the time. So what stops you from being more aggressive on days when illness isn't an issue?

Ethan 29:37
Because of the unknown of how fast you can possibly drop? Is

Scott Benner 29:41
that happened frequently? Or was it just overtime?

Ethan 29:44
It's just me. That's a personality thing.

Scott Benner 29:48
That I'm gonna have to leave you to what are we doing here? I'm just kidding.

Ethan 29:53
That's just me and I you know, that's one of those things like I last night, I mean, I think it is You might sleep last night because she was she had what I would call a stubborn eye and not you know, being aggressive with giving him I mean, I was increasing her. So you know, as increased nursing, that's how she was going to react and she started going down, and then all of a sudden, it's like, okay, we're heading, you know, her trajectory is going in the correct right direction. And then all of a sudden, it's like, Nah, ha, ha, playing with you. I'm going back the other way.

Scott Benner 30:26
Yeah, how many episodes or something did you get through last night? Exactly.

Ethan 30:29
Say it again.

Scott Benner 30:30
How many episodes of your new show did you get through last night? What? While you were sitting up fighting with the blood sugar? Were you watching? Are you watching something? Exactly?

Ethan 30:39
No, I was actually I was just on social media. I was yeah, it was just kind of just scrolling through social.

Scott Benner 30:45
Well, so. So you're doing that thing. You're you're kind of just nickel and diming that the high blood sugar because you don't want to cause a lobe and then you get a little movement. But then whatever is forcing the blood sugar up is still there. So you haven't overwhelmed it yet? It's coming back up. It's probably dinner. Right? Was there a fat or protein and dinner? Here

Ethan 31:05
was protein and dinner for sure. And that's what I was thinking to him. Okay, this is dinner and but she also has kind of its tendency to wear around a certain timeframe. Between like three and six to her, she'll show just kind of drop, you know, her blood sugar's were start to go down. And you know, this is one kind of anticipating that happening. But then I'm going okay, why don't I just give her more instead of constantly increasing? Yeah. What's happened to questions in this going? Yeah, so I tend to do more of the sets, increasing or just adjusting her or basil increasing instead of just going okay. What is it actually wanting me to give her? You know, it's wanting to be the giver? You know, it's saying he wants to units, do I do that? Do I cut sometimes I kind of cut it in half. Because sometimes it's because, again, when I'm getting that is, it is a tool. It's a great tool, but it doesn't know exactly what, what was ingested. Yeah, right. High protein was more sugars, what kind of carbs was, so it doesn't obviously know that. So that's where I feel like you have to come in with that factor of, okay, this is what she actually had. And it's like that, it's it's kind of help, you're helping me, it's your tool helping you but then you have to help it too. Yeah,

Scott Benner 32:21
you have to you have to be the one to understand the impact of the food. You know, because if dinner had, you know, protein that got digested late and push blood sugar back up, if it had fat in it, that slowed down digestion kept the food in your stomach longer, like that's that, like if she's getting lower every night at 3am? Is it possible that like, is she having a snack before bed? Or something that's sitting in her? Or do you think that you're maybe seeing growth hormone early in the evening that you're being more aggressive with? And then she's getting lower later? Have you figured out what it might be?

Ethan 32:53
Not, there's nothing to really kind of figure that out, like, Okay, this is your certain pattern, what you're exhibiting because it can also depend on what she did that day, or his activities, you know, due to conditioning, and how many practices does she go to she Less is more, because that also takes plays into it too. Because sometimes it's like, as soon as she lays down, it's like, she's settling. So she's starting to drop, you know, yeah. And I kind of we got discharged or we was getting trained, there was that rule of thumb of kind of, you know, putting, making sure her blood sugar's are like 120 Plus, and I actually have a colleague of mine who's I think she says, She's type 1.5. Like, goes by that rule of thumb to have, you know, going going to sleep it at 120 Plus,

Scott Benner 33:46
and they're drifting down every night. wordstat Again, does the blood sugar drift down every night? Or does it stay in the 120? Sometimes?

Ethan 33:55
It will, it can fluctuate. It does it really? Honestly, it does. She's active all night. I mean, there's a good pattern to where she'll stay like 100 between maybe like 80 and 100. But then there's the patterns to where she'll stay between 100 and like, 140. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:15
Yes, so sometimes leaving are high is necessary, and sometimes it's not. Yeah, it

Ethan 34:22
sounds like a lot like I'll leave around 140 Or maybe even like, 160 depends on the time. I always have to look at the time like, Okay, is it it's 1030 She's 160 Do I just give her a little bit of a thumping freeze? And let's see what happens like around 1:32am. Okay, it's time for him to adjust again. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 34:40
guess all the activity is really the linchpin. They're trying to figure out where it's when it's happening. Doesn't happen constantly. There's a lot of activity doesn't mean there's activity every day. The activity on top of different meals probably looks different later, too. So yeah, boy, it's a lot. I commend you for paying it. added to it. And it's, I mean, it's hard to find patterns and stuff like that is what I was gonna say. So like, you have to just kind of pay attention. So you see, like, there's, I don't know, hints that happened along the way, like you said, like, at this certain time, if what's happening at 10pm Looks like this, then I might leave the number one place or the other. You know, what else I'm thinking? Is that it really feels like I mean, it feels like an algorithm could help her. Because if you don't have to, you know, like you're leaving it at 120 in case she falls, but if an algorithm sees her falling, it's going to take the insulin away anyway. So you might be, maybe that is the situation where that would be really helpful. Have you ever thought about it?

Ethan 35:48
I mean, I could actually be completely wrong. She her I think there is a certain period. Yeah, she is there. There are I was completely incorrect. There are certain periods in her program to where it will do the adjustment,

Scott Benner 36:05
as well. Well, so is she using all the power five already? Yes, she

Ethan 36:09
is on the phone. Oh,

Scott Benner 36:10
I thought you said that. Well, you did say dash but it's she's on Fox.

Ethan 36:14
I'm sorry. She's on she's on the dash. But there is so that's wrong. Excuse me, for me, me and Pete novice here. But um, yeah. There's certain years. There are certain periods throughout the day when her program to where it will give her we'll make that adjustment for

Scott Benner 36:31
All right, hold on, we got to pick through this evening because something don't make sense. So I'm the pod dash does not have an algorithm, it won't shut off basil automatically turn it on, on the pod five gives insulin takes insulin away as it's trying to keep you in a range. And Omnipod. Five would be trying to think of how you could differentiate the two?

Ethan 36:55
Well, it doesn't shut off. But I know there's there's a certain point to where it will give her an increase if it needs to. When I programmed it.

Scott Benner 37:05
It'll give her an increase.

Ethan 37:07
I mean, let me see. We're I think you're

Scott Benner 37:09
just not using the words that I'm expecting to hear. But I'm just there's some like, do you mean you've done like a Temp Basal increase?

Ethan 37:17
No, hold on a second. So okay, yeah, we're probably just not using the same.

So she has it was, oh, I'm seeing this. It's a target. Target. Target BG and correct. Above. So if she is 19. Above it says it will correct. And that's turned on. It's called her Bolus Catholic. Calculator.

Scott Benner 37:39
Okay, oh, I see. You're just using, like different language than I expected, I'm sorry. So in her settings on her dash, there's a, the Bolus calculator either gives you insulin or doesn't give you insulin based on the target you have set. So for instance, if your target is 110, but you're 90, and you open it up, it's not going to say give us give yourself more insulin. If you're 120, it might ask for more insulin, depending on how much insulin is on board. But that's not an algorithm what I was talking about, like, yeah, on the pod five, would actually it would make boluses and take basil away and add basil and stuff like that on its own. Like literally like aggressively it would it would give and take away insulin to try to keep her in a range. There's an analyst there's episodes about it, you should check them out and see what you think. But that might help like an actual algorithm making a decision about insulin completely on its own. The way I thought about it for her was instead of putting her to bed at 120 because you think she's going to drift down. You don't worry about that. And the algorithm will just take away her her insulin to try to keep her at a stable number. So I don't know it's it's worth looking into. Okay,

Ethan 39:04
well, thanks for that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I LD we have a scoped for anytime soon to move over to the five so I haven't done I'll be honest, I haven't done my due diligence on on that actual product. Yeah,

Scott Benner 39:18
yeah, I wouldn't look into anything I wasn't thinking of getting I was just saying I like as you're describing the overnights I thought we algorithms are maybe the best overnight, because there's no extra food, right? You're not eating and they do they do a really good job. sleeping overnight aren't used as she's using loop three right now. But her overnight is like last night was so incredibly stable. Like it's hard to put into words how stable it was. It's pretty awesome, actually. Yeah, take a look when you get a chance save, you know, I'm not saying run out and do it or anything like that, or they even have to but it's worth understanding. For sure. Absolutely. How, no, of course how was your conversation? is with your daughter about diabetes they how do you think she thinks about it? And what is it as a parent you're considering when you're talking to her?

Ethan 40:08
Yeah, it was definitely the beginning the adjustment. She's, he is. He's my inspiration to be honest with you. I mean, I could imagine this happening to me at her age and having to deal with it and going to school, but try to keep an open dialogue. There's definitely good days and bad days or good weeks and bad weeks. She's coming along great with with an understanding the management She surprises me sometimes like she's like, Okay, this was on Bolus and myself. I'm like, dang, you, you landed? Great. You mean? All right. You know, like, okay, you know, and then there's the occasional questions like, Okay, this is only half what do you think I should do? And, you know, we figure it out. But she is, she has she, like I said, she is my inspiration. I tell her.

Scott Benner 41:05
She mind that our friends know.

Ethan 41:08
Her friends, she has a good supporting cast of friends. There is the occasional dismissive Oh, she just wants to, to blend but I always tell you know, she's, she's special. But her she's, she had to get used to that, you know, and realize that she has to let those in her circle, understand, understand what's going on with her. Okay. And, you know, one of the things to explain it to her, I said, it's something very similar to someone who has a peanut allergy, you know, you're out with your friends, and you don't want to hand them a Snickers bar, you know, because they're gonna react to that, or someone who has any other type of reaction, you're going to want to know you're going to need to know your circle is going to eat and understand. Yeah, so yeah, I mean, her circle is, is a very supportive that she has, and that's I commend them too, for, you know, for her being as young as they are, and in supporting their friend out. Yeah.

Scott Benner 42:08
So while she wants to not think about it at times, she's not hiding it from anybody.

Ethan 42:14
Now. No, I mean, you finally gonna get any for this when she was just telling me. I think this was in seventh in seventh grade to where we're talking about the alerts. Oh, because I was I was writing a program, actually. And I had said, I see I see what your settings are. And what I mean by the settings is her phone alerting her. And she was just telling me yesterday that one point, or alert had went off, and she kind of charted up there as it was an Amber Alert. She liked the teacher think it was amber alert there for a second.

Scott Benner 42:47
So be beep oh, there's like, yeah, it was a kid in the Volkswagen. We're supposed to be looking for this. She just didn't want people to think that. Yeah, I mean, I get that, like, nobody wants to be singled out, like by anything.

Ethan 43:03
It's already kind of a challenge, you know, middle school, sorry, difficult as it can, is, you know, that, you know, let alone and then adding something else on top of it, and to where you're, you have these little sidewalk on my cyborg sometimes too, because, you know, gadgets owner, people seen seeing it and her having to adjust to that. So she's, we've got through that period, I think, to where she's more, she's more open about it now. And they especially like, say with her being, being in sports, she had to be very open about hey, this is what's gonna happen with me. Yeah, or, yeah, with her coaches and her teammates.

Scott Benner 43:45
I think it's a it's a process, obviously, but it's a delicate age. 1112 1314 year old girls, right. And she's, you know, finding her way through it. It sounds impressive, that she's figuring out how to manage it. That, you know, her friends know about it. That's terrific. Does she hide her devices? I mean, like, I don't mean like, what do I mean? I was No, I

Ethan 44:09
get what you're saying. In the beginning. It was there was some some don't want to bring attention to it. Let's just say it that way. But now she's she's, she's getting comfortable. She's gotten comfortable with it. She has golfer that's excellent. Yeah. And she there's more to get comfortable with but she's, you know, it's and like we were she was just a camp last week and another volleyball camp and there happened to be a another another player who is T one and you're able to see the device. So you know, we've seen that when we're as we're traveling around in her world and volleyball. There are some so it's like, yeah, see that their sport and it you know, yeah, rockin it's you. I

Scott Benner 44:50
saw a woman wearing it. I don't think this is FDA approved. But I saw a woman wearing her G six on her forearm, the top of her forearm yesterday and I I was like, wow, that's like, but it's right there. You know, I thought that was kind of cool it I asked her about it. I was like, Hey, do you wear the G six there? Often she wasn't she started telling me the other place. She wears it. She's like, Yeah, sometimes she's like, I get good readings here. I was like, no kidding. Cool.

Ethan 45:14
I seen one that posted a picture to where she had it like, on her between her shoulder blades, like right below her neck. Oh, yeah. Yeah, my dad does not look comfortable with. But works, right? Yeah, she says she got really good. She gets her best readings there. I always think I kind of she lay down and I get a compression.

Scott Benner 45:36
Hey, how tall is your daughter? Exactly? Are we going to make some college money off this volleyball thing or what?

Ethan 45:42
That's the goal, right? She is. She just wanted to doctors a few few days ago. She's five, eight and a half.

Scott Benner 45:48
Oh. Oh, how tall are you? Not at all. How about her mom? Not at all. Do you think five eight might be a good five eighths tall for a younger? Yeah,

Ethan 46:00
she's definitely in the in the setters range for sure. So yeah, she's been playing for FIFA. She's been playing travel. I think this is going into her third season. Now. She's been playing for a while she's double champion back to back champion in her middle school.

Scott Benner 46:17
Does she want to play call? Does she want to go to college? Yes,

Ethan 46:20
yeah, she we actually last Saturday. Yeah, or two weeks ago, she went to a program to meet with it was one day, but you meet with college recruits. So I kind of thought maybe it was going to be cuz she's only going into, she'll be entering high school here in like two weeks, actually, two weeks. Um, I thought maybe it was too soon. But we just went for it. And it was surprised. I was surprised with how many other players that are in her graduating class of 2027 that were there. Ready to go

Scott Benner 46:56
coast, my son started. I think he started talking to college coaches, maybe when he was 15, closer to 16. That, that that summer. And it felt like it was enough for them to like see you and say like, oh, you're athletic, or you definitely look like a baseball player or something like that. You should come back next year. And then when he was 16, that's when it was like, it was intense for a while. There's a lot of like, how do you do it in? In volleyball, though, like in, in baseball, you show up and play in? Like, you know, tournaments? Or recruits? Do they show up and play volleyball together? How do they do that?

Ethan 47:36
Yeah, for that one for that Pacific Pacific specific program. There were I think there's like eight different universities that showed up. And then they just broke them down into teams, based off of actually I really don't even know. I think it's kind of like at random. It didn't but but what you you're actually signing up on the preferred position, top two positions that you play, okay. And then And then each coach you're like spinning you're spending x amount of time with each university recruit recruiter there and they're teaching you based off your skill level on how they would actually teach their in their program. And then they get split up for the for the rest of the Pearson's like five hours to where they're actually playing that with that coach and then playing against the other others, the other universities in their teams, so

Scott Benner 48:30
their small team, you have to pay for this or is it very nice

Ethan 48:34
it is what's free run here? Or

Scott Benner 48:37
you're in California, right? Yeah, yeah. start charging for air. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. I mean, the things that cold did, generally speaking, were not free. But they were. Yeah, they were, they weren't overly expensive that I think it it felt like you were paying, like helping pay the coaches for their time, basically, is what it is what it felt like, I think it's kind of how they make some of those like assistant coaches make a little bit of their income that way, you know, some of them are not making a ton of money to coach in their colleges. So

Ethan 49:11
exactly. Some of them are in now. This is like their, their second or second job. Exactly. So but that's a lot of it with travel too, I believe. Yeah. having to pay for the for that expense. But yeah, this was not a free program. She actually enjoyed it. There was a lot, a lot of feedback. And then beans being told or they were told to her. If you're going into your freshman year, your first year. It's it is that summer, like you're just saying that 1516 tour. That's where the tapes are gonna start coming in and that sort of conversations are going to be like you can make you can reach out, but you're probably just going to get that. Thank you for reaching out. Oh, yeah. Because I don't think they can actually legally

Scott Benner 49:56
talk to you until you're certain age. Yeah. Listen, the best the best thing I can tell you is that if there's two things you can do, you have to be a real honest assessor of, of her and take a lot of video. Those are really the things you can do. So, I spent a lot of my time pointing a camera at my son until a baseball game to him then, and laying out a lot of dead stuff, and you know, in the video, but in the end, he was able to, I think he got as much interest through video that we made as he did through being in person. So like, you start sending them videos and saying, like, hey, look, I'm going to be at this thing this weekend. And I come say hello. And then they'll watch your video. And if they like it, they'll say, yeah, come find me. That's how it kind of worked there. It was baseball was little it was I mean, I don't know how different it is really, you're trying to get somebody to notice you in a sea full of people doing the same thing. So exactly. Yeah,

Ethan 50:55
that's there's different programs that I seem to where you can actually do a, you know what tournament, you're going to be in jail. You know, whoever you're reaching out to you just kind of like send them a note. I will be at this. And then they'll fill actually, if they're interesting, because they didn't explain this. They will find you on the court. They'll figure out what court are you can you say, Hey, I'd be at this tournament. I'll be on this court. This is what time this might position and they still feel that way.

Scott Benner 51:23
I mean, I they say that I would say that it's more your job to get yourself in front of them. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's it's because they can't be everywhere all at once. And they might I mean, listen, you could I remember a day where we're Cole made this like, incredible catch and centerfield. And he followed up with like, this insane throw, and nobody was there. And then the next day, people showed up and the ball like just never once came to him. And that was it. Like he just was standing out there. So taping them no, I had the video. So after the weekend was over you you sent out he sends an email to those guys this Hey, Coach, you know, I noticed you weren't at the game where you know, this happened, blah, blah, blah. But here's me doing this and this. And that kind of stuff really helped them by the time Cole was rolling, he had a good 15 or 18 colleges interested in him. Like once he really got it moving. But we did that a lot with video. Honestly, it was a lot of it was a lot of effort on our side. You know, because they all show up to see the same stuff. And you know, I I watched Cole playing a game once in Florida maybe where there were no lie 40 college coaches at the game, they played them. So they brought they brought our kids in basically to be sacrificial lambs against this like, like national team, like a baseball team made up of kids from all over the country. And the pitcher was in thrown in the 90s. And they were only like 16 or 17 years old. So there were like 40 coaches standing behind home plate with radar guns, trying to see how hard this kid to throw. Now he could not locate a fastball to save his life. But they did not care. They loved him. The he couldn't throw strikes, he was ineffective. Our team was beating them handily. And even though our team showed up and beat this collection of like studs, they didn't pay attention to one kid on our side, they paid attention to the kid who threw the ball really hard, even though he couldn't throw a strike. It's interesting what they get enamored with is what I'm saying. So you need to bring you need to remind them sometimes you also need a person to do this, not just the guy who's there was 90 miles an hour. And yeah, that sort of thing. I don't know if she really wants to do it. And she's a good student. I guarantee she's a student. Yeah. Good.

Ethan 53:53
She gets that from an excellent student. Well,

Scott Benner 53:56
that's a big deal. I mean, and we did save a lot of money off of college. I only want to say how much but it was a lot. So you know, it can help if you if you get the right situation. Yeah,

Ethan 54:11
that's definitely her. Her goal is to play college ball. They were talking about, you know, scholarships, and you know, what's the possibility? And obviously, it all depends on if it changes from you know, your D one private to D one public in Chem three. So that's it's all you know, it's that fluctuates, right? But yeah, but that's absolutely her goal. And I always told her when she started that I will support her. However, whatever that means that they you know, she's this is what she wants. I I mean, I was actually I played I played basketball when I was in high school and stuff, but I only play Dooku once a year. And what reason why I end up playing Dooku I know we're kind of going off topic here. I played I played yuku is I didn't have that tape. When I was actually talking to a university, and had asked me, Hey, can you send me over tape? I'm like, What's that? Yeah, how

Scott Benner 55:11
am I doing that?

Ethan 55:13
And, you know, he's like the coach parents like, that didn't happen. So I got actually got invited for a one day. It was like a one day showcase play. And I remember when I came out during the during the game, I got asked if I was actually the MVP of my team. And I'm like, No, actually, I said, you know, but what I'm getting out with the tape, is that something that stood with me, because I realized that that I only had this one shot and I that was the best that best I've ever played. Don't even know where it came from, to tell you the truth. Like I was channeling something else. But the tape when I had heard the No, I don't have this. Yeah, like you that hesitation on the other end of the phone. So yeah, when uh, when recently my daughter started really talking about this. I'm like, I will make sure that you are tape.

Scott Benner 56:11
Sure. Yeah. Good. Good for you. It's, it's nice. And actually, now that Microsoft is out of college and doesn't play baseball anymore. Like still once in a while, like in my, you know, in my pictures, I'll pop up and see him like in a photo standing on a field or playing or something like that. The other day, I watched him hit his like, last college home run in a video. Like stuff like that. It's nice, you know? So you guys have a good time. Plus, I'll tell you a ton of good time spent in the car. Like the driving to and from games and stuff like that is? I remember very fondly. So

Ethan 56:50
yeah, there's been we've we've done a lot of travel. I mean, we went to Salt Lake City, this this last season up to Washington. So you know, it's the travel, as expensive as it can be. It definitely has the memory.

Scott Benner 57:05
Memory, trying to think about what the hotel room costs, just trying to remember the lovely conversation. Yeah, the car.

Ethan 57:11
Oh, my God, and it's rather you're doing good or bad. You're like going?

Scott Benner 57:16
Oh, yeah, yeah, there's nothing like flying somewhere to lose. That's fun.

Ethan 57:22
Yeah, we're gonna see a couple of those so far. It's like, Oh, man. But

Scott Benner 57:26
But that's why also, when you're collecting video, you can still play well, in a situation where the team does not do well. And you still might have something to share at that point. So absolutely

Ethan 57:38
not, there's definitely that then there's also the character building, even though she's not gonna like it when I say that. But to overcome that adversity, you know, that versity that you're going up against to kind of keep thriving and pushing each other. That's that goes a long, long way, in my opinion. Oh, yeah. Because of what is being, you know, there's no give it up. You're fighting as long as you guys are fighting together, you know, and trying to bring them to morale up as a team, that there is to me, that's the big takeaway. Oh, for

Scott Benner 58:06
sure. Yeah. Oh, Ethan. Most of these, like, most of those girls aren't gonna end up playing volleyball in the Olympics. You know what I mean? So, exactly, you're gonna

Ethan 58:15
see something that's definitely going to carry over into that work into your

Scott Benner 58:19
real life? Oh, for sure. Like, I think the more the most successful kids I know, now, in their early 20s, were the kids who lost at baseball, more like the kids that were super successful. Like, I don't know what they took from it, they won baseball games, but they didn't have a ton of life lessons at all. And you also get in the real world, like, I don't know how valuable it is to be like, I can hit a baseball, like good for you, that doesn't help me at your job. You know, like, maybe the I work out hard, or I'm consistent. Like that stuff's all valuable. But I mean, the losings far more valuable than the one, I think,

Ethan 58:55
absolutely. And totally agree. You know, it's just like, how do you overcome this, you have to figure out how to overcome this together. Because something can happen at work, or something can happen in your personal life and you know, in her family, and you have to figure out how to communicate and overcome it. And it's challenging, you might not be in that headspace because you're upset, you're frustrated, you're playing bad, your teammates playing bad, but how do you support and so I keep instilling like, how you have to figure out how to support that.

Scott Benner 59:21
Yeah, we're gonna do this again, tomorrow. This went terribly. And we're gonna get up tomorrow and do it again.

Ethan 59:26
I always say short term amnesia. Short term amnesia. Just keep going out there. Yeah, just keep going and get the next one. Get the next one.

Scott Benner 59:32
Perfect life lesson. Honestly, it's the way you have to take care of diabetes too. You can't you can't have a bad now Ethan now I finally have brought this all the way around to you being scared from the one time your kid was sick. Don't you have to forget that and move on? Yes,

Ethan 59:48
yeah, I see what you did there.

Scott Benner 59:52
Took me a while even but I did get to it. Honestly, I thought I was gonna get it done 10 minutes ago and then we we went off track a little bit but Yeah, but seriously that, you know, sports life, diabetes, it's all it's all the same really, just, you know, you gotta get back at it. So I don't know, I don't want you to leave in your kids budget or 161 20 overnight if it doesn't need to be. Because you're

Ethan 1:00:16
absolutely like I said, I'm I'm always adjusting that and seeing what she's gonna do. I don't want her be in a pair to know she feels she's feeling bad either. But, you know, and but, ya know, I do have to figure out how to, I mean, for one that one thing is she is, she's kind of like, in the middle of me and her mom, like, she'll be more. Okay, this is what I'm gonna, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go ahead and be a little Orbitz which is good for her. Because at the end of the day, and a few years when she guys go off to college, we'll still be watching from afar, because who knows where she'll be at? Yeah. And it's going to be completely on her so that it's more, even though I might be hesitant and reserved. At least she's not,

Scott Benner 1:00:57
well, you'll grow with it, too. I mean, you're not going to be the person you are right now for for the whole time. I also think for you for your sadly in your sleep. If you could make one more slightly aggressive Bolus at night, instead of like little ones, little ones, little ones and sitting up for hours, that'd be better for you, which would be better for her. You know, like, you could actually, like knock a number down and get some sleep. Yes, yeah, I don't want you to sit up all night meant that the no sleep thing. I'll tell you from my experience, the no sleep thing in the beginning. I was like, Oh, I can do this. Like, this is what needs to be done. And I can do it. But I'm just going to tell you that after a while it's untenable, and you just can't keep it going anymore. And now you're just gonna not know how to handle the high blood sugar overnight, and you're gonna pass out and be asleep. A lack of sleep has such a horrible impact on a person. And it's very incremental the way it comes over you so you don't notice it happening. Just one day you're exhausted. And yeah, that's your new normal. And that sucks. So anyway, I don't want that for you.

Ethan 1:02:03
Appreciate ya.

Scott Benner 1:02:04
Ethan. You were terrific, man. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have?

Ethan 1:02:09
Now, this is actually great. I mean, this is actually my first podcast doing this so that you're terrific. Thank you for the experience. Of course. No, it's

Scott Benner 1:02:17
my pleasure. I appreciate you wanting to do it. I appreciate your ex making you do it. Why did she want you to do it?

Ethan 1:02:22
No, actually, I just I just recently told her about it because it popped up saying hey, yeah, I'm doing this podcast, by the way. Oh, she

Scott Benner 1:02:29
didn't know you reached out. Yeah,

Ethan 1:02:31
I reached out. I had seen her on Facebook. Nice. Good for

Scott Benner 1:02:33
you. You enjoyed it. You enjoy doing this? Yeah, absolutely. How come your headset sounds so good. You're like gamer headset?

Ethan 1:02:41
No, actually, from for I just conducted my first interview as a podcast host last week, so I do what I do for I'm into technical marketing. Okay, so yeah, I create content videos and stuff like that. So that's why Oh, no

Scott Benner 1:02:57
kidding. Good for you. That's actually what you sound terrific. So you're off to a good start there. Thank you. I appreciate it. Hold on one second for me. Okay.

A huge thanks to Dexcom for supporting the podcast and for sponsoring this episode dexcom.com/juicebox Go get yourself a Dexcom g7 right now using my link. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. You spell that? G VOKEGLUC. Ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1123 After Dark: Clean and Sober

Kat is nurse who is now clean and sober. She grew up in an alcoholic household and began using cocaine at the age of 12, Her daughter has type 1 diabetes. WARNING: sudden mention of sexual assualt and other sensitive topics.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1123 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Cat grew up in an alcoholic household, she began doing cocaine at the age of 12. And that led to using meth. Her 15 year old daughter has type one diabetes and a few other issues. And it looks here like oh rd and called in a couple of times Hoback at the beginning of using the Dexcom G seven art and had a concern that she didn't know how to fix while she was away at school. It looks like we took care of it on the podcast. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink a G one.com/juice box. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth cozy earth.com use the offer code juicebox at checkout to save 40% off of the clothing, towels sheets off of everything they have at cozy earth.com us med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years. You can as well. Us med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med My

Kat 2:13
name is Kat I am a single mother of a type one diabetic who is 1515

Scott Benner 2:23
Oh cat my whole whiteboard is dirty. And my my yp thing is on hold on my thesis little tiny eraser is embarrassing. No one can see it. And it's embarrassing. No erasing this giant whiteboard with like a half inch eraser that I have here. Hold on, you'll be all right. I've been editing like a lunatic for three weeks, so that my wife and I can go visit our kids. Oh, sweet. Oh, I basically made the backroom stuff for the podcast. I basically did three and a half weeks of it in a week and a half. So I'm a little Have you slept? No, not really. Anything so I'm getting to it though. I'll sleep I'm driving to where the kids are. How's that sound?

Kat 3:07
As long as you're not driving,

Scott Benner 3:09
I'll be driving. Okay,

Kat 3:11
so then you can't do that.

Scott Benner 3:14
Alright, cat 15 year old type one. Diagnosed how long ago?

Kat 3:19
And 2018. Okay, do the math you want me

Scott Benner 3:25
to seems like five years ago?

Kat 3:26
It was five years.

Scott Benner 3:28
Okay. So any diabetes in the family? Yes,

Kat 3:34
my will after she was diagnosed, we figured out that my grandfather's brother who died when he was young from diabetes was obviously type one. But it wasn't really talked about. And then a month after she was diagnosed my what would it be? My cousin first cousin. There you go. He was diagnosed but he was like 34 Okay. And then, three months prior to my daughter being diagnosed, I found out that the Son I gave birth to who I gave up for adoption was diabetic. Oh,

Scott Benner 4:14
that's a twist. Can't can't wait to throw a twist in in the first couple of minutes. This is how this how you come correct. Everybody who's listening. Don't Don't slow walk me on this stuff. Get it right out there. Wow. At birth given up for adoption? Yes. Wow. Okay. Okay. That's something. I'm sorry. Were they twins? No.

Kat 4:37
God, no. That would be horrible.

Scott Benner 4:43
Oh, to split. Oh, I see there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, so how old is the adopted child older than your 15 year old?

Kat 4:52
Yes. So he just turned 18 Okay,

Scott Benner 4:57
got it. How Do you know when he got diabetes? How did you find out?

Kat 5:04
So, we had an open adoption. Um, so I'm in contact with his, with his mother. And she she'd let me know. She let me know three months before my daughter was diagnosed, but he was diagnosed maybe a year before she was.

Scott Benner 5:21
Okay. So about nine months into his diagnosis, she reached thought to reach out and tell you, yes. Okay. And then, just a few months later, your daughter's diagnosed?

Kat 5:32
Yes. And that I think that was really the way that not the way we found out but my mom kind of clued in to it. When we she was my daughter was having all these issues. She was like, Do you think it could be this? And I was like, No. Like, she's she's not overweight and all of these things. And then I looked up, type one diabetes, and she was just having all of the classic symptoms.

Scott Benner 5:59
Question. That's for my interest and probably not for my child's different fathers. Same fathers.

Kat 6:06
Different fathers. I don't know the father of my birth son. Oh,

Scott Benner 6:12
okay. I don't think I want to ask about that. I don't right. Oh, wait, no matter. Really? Okay. All right, cat. Why don't you know the father of your birthstone?

Kat 6:24
Well, no, I was. I was a troubled teen. That's what it comes down to. I put myself in a predicament at the beach on a family vacation. My grandfather just passed. I didn't care what was going on. I was using drugs and alcohol and just wanted to find a place to have fun. And somebody offered to take me to like a beach party. And we went I was offered a drink. And I don't remember anything after that.

Scott Benner 6:53
I'm sorry. How old were you? I was

Kat 6:56

Oh, gosh.

Scott Benner 6:58
Okay. Does your does the boy know that?

Kat 7:04
No, I don't know. The boy. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:07
Would would. Would the adopted parents know the story or? No? I told them. Okay. All right. Well, you just sobered the whole thing. Right up cat. Okay. It's okay. I'm so sorry to hear that. But it's fine. But for diabetes purposes. Looks like the type one comes through your family line as my was kind of what Yes. Initially trying to get at before we found this. But you so but you have your daughter when you're 17? Is that right? No, no.

Kat 7:38
I had her when I was 19. Okay, sorry. Okay. 19.

Scott Benner 7:43
Would you have considered yourself still a troubled teen at 19? Or no,

Kat 7:47
by 19? I had, I was in a relationship with somebody who I thought I was going to marry. I had already been to rehab for mental health and addiction. And I think I was in a more stable place. So I would say yes.

Scott Benner 8:07
Gotcha. There was that that took me in a big circle. I was like, Oh my gosh. But I got I understand though, you were like you would made a ton of improvements, but probably weren't as improved as you saw yourself. Is that fair? Oh,

Kat 8:23
100% Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 8:25
Wow. Okay, so Geez, you're only you're only 34

Kat 8:30
I am.

Scott Benner 8:31
Well has a big life. And fun. Can I tell you something? Sure. I just started a diabetes podcast. I didn't know it was all gonna go like this. And last week, people will. People will have heard the episode that I'm going to reference right now. By the time by the time yours comes out. Last week, I interviewed a 73 year old woman who had diabetes type one since she was 40. She was misdiagnosed. She had all kinds of trouble. It took a long time for them to figure out she had diabetes so her blood sugar's were kind of like high all the time. She thought she had mental health issues because of how like, you know, oddly, her brain was working but turns out her blood sugar was just high. She divorced her husband because of this never had children because of it. embarked on a three year lesbian relationship came back out of that. And like she's telling me this whole big story. And we're maybe 45 minutes into it. And all I could think about was like, wow, like if you live long enough, like look at the perspective you gain because this woman was so happy and and just healthy and and you know what I mean? Like really interesting. And then I don't know what happened. We must have gotten to the point where she was so comfortable while we were talking. She discloses that she was molested at 10 years old by a by a family member. Wow. And if my takeaway I'm telling you right now, my takeaway after speaking with her for that long was people can get through anything really impressive, like just the like where she is now compared to all of the things that she had gone through, you would think that would create just a broken person, but it didn't. It really can. It can. Sure it can. Yeah, but like, I'm just fascinated that anybody could have gotten through something like that. And hers. Her story was just, it's incredible. Like, it's gonna be shocking. While you're listening to it. Like it's gonna come out of nowhere. And it really ended. It shocked me. I didn't know what to say. Because she was because she was also I don't know, if everybody knows older people, but you lose your like your filter a little bit like she did. She was very just direct about what happened to her. And I was I was so stunned. I couldn't talk. So it was it was really something but I'm asking you now because in my mind, you've had a few of her experiences. And I'm wondering, you know, they're about at 34 How far to free and easy 73 year old cat Are you? The podcast is sponsored today, by the place where I kept my oh gosh, my sheets, my towels, some of my clothing. A lot of the things that I stay warm are comfortable with cozy earth.com I'm wearing a pair of cozy Earth joggers right now, I've recently gotten another pair in a different color. I sleep on cozy Earth sheets. They're so comfortable and soft and temperate, temperate, meaning I'm never hot or cold. Which is really saying something because my wife loves to turn that giant fan on but they keep me nice and warm without making me like sweaty or moist. You know what I mean? Want to be moist while you're sleeping. And then of course, the waffle towels I use every day to dry off my bits and parts. After I've showered cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% off of your entire order. I'm not saying 40% off of one item, I'm saying 40% off of everything you put in the cart, cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout. diabetes comes with a lot of things to remember. So it's nice when someone takes something off of your plate. US med has done that for us. When it's time for art and supplies to be refreshed. We get an email rolls up in your inbox says hi Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from us med. You open up the email. It's a big button that says click here to reorder. And you're done. Finally, somebody taking away a responsibility instead of adding one. US med has done that for us. An email arrives, we click on a link and the next thing you know your products are at the front door. That simple. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 I never have to wonder if Arden has enough supplies. I click on one link. I opened up a box. I put the stuff in the drawer. And we're done. US med carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three, and the Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide, over 800 private insurers. And all you have to do to get started is called 888-721-1514. Or go to my link us med.com/juicebox using that number or my link helps to support the production of the Juicebox Podcast.

Kat 13:52
I think I'm pretty much there.

Scott Benner 13:53
Wow. That's so cool.

Kat 13:55
I yeah, I I mean, just life throws curveballs at you. And you either deal with them or you don't what helped you get through all that? My daughter probably the fact that I'm a single parent, I don't have another choice.

Scott Benner 14:12
But you know other people just are bad parents in that situation. They don't take the choice you took you don't know why

Kat 14:18
you well. I wasn't always like this though. Oh, definitely not. All right. So I mean, I've I've relapsed after being sober for 10 years. You know, I've I've definitely made mistakes along the way. But I don't know you just get older and something just clicks in you. Yeah. You're like, All right, enough is

Scott Benner 14:36
enough. Were you ever a 22 year old girl and Black Sabbath t shirt in an arcade holding the baby?

Kat 14:42
No. Black that was not my thing. But no,

Scott Benner 14:48
I'm sorry, was it it was an inexpensive shirt.

Kat 14:51
No, it'd be more like Tupac or something.

Scott Benner 14:54
I gotcha. Oh, that's. How about that? Well, good. I mean, listen, I'm gonna congratulate you but does it Feel like luck. Does it feel like hard work? Or does it feel like a blend?

Kat 15:06
I think a blend. I don't think I'm fully done growing in that aspect. But I'm trying, I'm getting there. And I need to quit saying, I'm sorry, you're

Scott Benner 15:17
fine. I don't care what the hell you say keep talking. You're doing great. I have three words written down in front of me. But if, or excuse me, so an arm. But so those are the words that I say, No, those are the words. I try not to say. Oh, yeah, I tried a lot. Um, I use when I'm thinking sometimes, but I don't know. I think it's the pressure to talk because I'm being recorded. Because in real life, I don't say it. Yeah. So I could see that. Yes. So is a connecting word. And I just need to like I know other connecting words, but I get lazy. And I say so a lot. Anyway, see there? I could have said so. But I said anyway. Good job. Yes. Thank you very much. I'll be good at this. By the time I'm done doing it maybe was just fascinating. Like, did you have good family support? Like, am I picturing you and your Tupac shirt? Your mom at home like June Cleaver? Or is your mom at home having her own troubles?

Kat 16:20
I had amazing family support. Complicated. My dad is an alcoholic functioning. My mother is currently going through rehab of for alcoholism and mental health. So it's, it's shifted a little bit but I'm my extended family, my aunts and everybody, my brother. Just constant support

Scott Benner 16:46
for nice. That's excellent. So I'm gonna tell you, I think that alcohol is probably the most dangerous substance I've seen people use. I mean, it's awful. Yeah, I mean, I guess heroin, maybe you know, or, like, yeah, in that kind of like, legal,

Kat 17:01
the worst legal. Even, like,

Scott Benner 17:04
when you get up into the, the opioids, then obviously, there's another danger there. But I mean, you know, things that people do to alleviate their pressure and stress, you know, we like drinking like drinking really men just, it just gets some people in a way. You know, and and the impact it has on their children is always, always there. You don't you don't grow up with alcoholic parents and not have a big bag tied around your neck that you're dragging. That's for sure. Well, okay. Why the hell are you on this podcast? Cat just the freak me out on a Monday morning? Or you got more further than that? What did you? What did you decide that you wanted to come on for?

Kat 17:44
I don't know. You know, it was one of those things where you signed up because you thought it was a good idea. And then you were like, What did I do? Yeah, one of those moments, my wife

Scott Benner 17:53
has that look on her face a lot.

Kat 17:57
No, I just thought it was just interesting how I've the combination of finding out how my childhood diabetes had to do with my mom connecting it to us just being told about my son having my birth son having been diagnosed. So I just thought that was interesting.

Scott Benner 18:17
It is it is but so you think that basically hearing the story about him then planted the seeds in your head so that when your daughter started to get sick, you saw something you maybe never would have seen otherwise? Oh,

Kat 18:30
no, I didn't see anything. He was your mom. My mom. Yes, no, my daughter was hours from being dead. Oh my gosh, he looked like an I don't want to offend anybody. But she looked like, you know, the emaciated bone. Just skin and bone that you see in third world countries like it was. It was shocking. And I just kept telling my family like, I know something's wrong. Like she's, where are her muscles. She's so athletic. And she had no muscle. And it was always, you know, the usual she's growing her her weight hasn't, you know, come back from her growing inches and blah, blah, blah.

Scott Benner 19:11
How quickly do you think that transformation happened?

Kat 19:13
I think about two months. Because I remember the last like picture I saw of her was in July at my aunt's birthday party, where she looked quote unquote, normal. And then after that, it was just downhill

Scott Benner 19:31
happens really quickly. Shocking. Yeah. Yeah, it did. And it just, it's just slow enough that people around you can say things like, oh, it's probably a growth spurt. But you could tell. No. But you're also what like what stops you from? From like, I don't know, moving this to an emergent problem like calling a doctor or something like that.

Kat 19:54
It's because she was not. I'm a nurse and I know what I pulled over my A parent's eyes and I'm not going to be you know, that same parent. So, like, I would never let her stay home from school, because she was eating. She didn't have fever. You know, none of the signs were there where you know something's wrong. So I just didn't clue in on it. There was an excuse for everything. Issues. You can excuse everything away. Is she a good kid? Amazing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 20:25
Is it a failure? Like you can't stay home from school? I know. You're gonna make a bomb. Yeah. You're not inviting 20 boys over here. I'm 12. Like, so? You just you're defending against the things you remember in your life? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was interesting. But she's not like that, right?

Kat 20:45
Not at all. I don't know how she's my child. Or she's way better

Scott Benner 20:49
at hiding it than you are. I'm just kidding. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So you were like, press on get going. We're not giving. And yet she was she was on her way out. What was her? You know, her blood sugar when they leave took her in? How did you end up with the hospital.

Kat 21:09
So it started with my daughter throwing up at school, but she had PE first Ariat her first period. So I was like, Well, she didn't eat anything. Of course, she's gonna throw up. And then she had soccer practice after school. And she threw up there. And I was like, well, she just ate of course, she's gonna grow up. And then she just didn't feel well at all. And my daughter cannot take medication at all. Like, her gag reflex is awful. And I said, Okay, if you take medication, I won't let you go to school tomorrow. I won't make you go to school tomorrow. So she took it and she slept that whole entire day. Not one time did she wake up? But the next day I told her like, you don't have fever, you're gonna gonna go to school. And that's when my mom stepped in and said, hey, you know, like, she really doesn't feel well. Why don't you you know, let her stay home. Let's take her to the doctor. But because of my job, I'm a home health nurse. I have patients that I've already scheduled. And so I couldn't take her. So my two aunts who are amazing. They took her to the doctor's office. And as soon as they saw her, they rushed her to the hospital. I was actually draining along when I got the call that she was diabetic.

Scott Benner 22:18
Why you just named the episode Aqua alone. Good job, cat. Fantastic. Do you think people know Jethro Tull? Probably not right? Doesn't matter.

Kat 22:29
I have no clue what you're talking about. He's

Scott Benner 22:30
gonna say you don't know, either. I'm still writing it down. Well, that's crazy. And you know, what it really highlights to me is how the idea of death is the last thing your brain will consider. Because I mean, come on. She threw up in the morning. She threw up in the afternoon. She slept an entire day away. And you were like, go to school? Yeah, yeah. But it's just because your brain won't your brain doesn't go there. It's the same thing when like people smoke, or they're like, I won't get lung cancer. Like, it's, it's that thing. Like even when presented with it. People will say no, it's not going to be me. And so it's a perseverance gene. I think it's why we we persist as as a you know, as humans, but it also in these specific circumstances, makes people press on when pressing on is not the right answer anymore. But yeah, your mom, huh? Good for her. Yes, yeah. And she didn't have any trouble. She didn't have any trouble telling you sometimes in a, like a mother daughter relationship. She might have thought that and kept it to herself.

Kat 23:38
I'm sure she was very scared to tell me. But I'm thankful she did. You

Scott Benner 23:44
mean after all the stuff that happened while she was raising you? She was probably like, I don't need this kid flipping out. Can you tell me for certain that you have stood in your kitchen screaming at your mom and your lifetime?

Kat 23:56
Oh, I can't tell you how many times you wish you could go back 100% It's still happening at the current moment, but only because of the things that my mom's going through right now.

Scott Benner 24:09
Is she having health issues? Mental health issues

Kat 24:13
and addiction. She's literally in rehab right now. Oh, I

Scott Benner 24:17
see. Oh, wow. Now you're Oh, wow. Hey, what did they what do they say? Now the master becomes the apprentice and the apprentice becomes that what is that? Exactly? The student becomes the teacher. So the thing she was watching you do urinal watching her do, huh? Wow. But she didn't have these issues earlier in life.

Kat 24:38
I think the alcoholism, yes. But my dad was an alcohol alcoholic. So everything was focused on him. And I think hers just kind of went to the wayside and then she had like a mental breakdown. And Christmas of last year, and it just increased everything. The alcoholism increased, which then affected her mental health, which then my brother and I stepped in and got her some help. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 25:15
Were they just propping each other up while they were together with the alcoholic stuff? Like they were just looking out for each other keep at it, like, are they functioning, very

Kat 25:25
functioning? Yeah, that's, that's the worst is a functioning alcoholic because they don't see wrong in anything they're doing because they're still able to hold a job, they're still able to, you know, make money and, and do the everyday things that everyone else does.

Scott Benner 25:39
That's the same thing I just said, except focus a different way. Like they they think like, it's okay, we got a goal and I'm getting up in the morning I do the things I'm supposed to do. It's not me, you know, they don't see the end, they don't see the end. Like if you go back 15 years and tell your mom like, Hey, you're gonna have a breakdown and like, you know, have mental health issues and blah, blah, blah. She goes, oh my god, I got this all together. It's interesting. Yeah. 100% Yeah, I'm sorry. That's that's a lot. And you're able to hold on to your sobriety while this is all going on. I am six Why do you think what do you what what keeps you where you're at? My

Kat 26:16
child? Just, I mean, there's no other option. It's not that it's not there. I do work every day to curb the the cravings and thoughts and once and all of that. And it does get easier over time. But it's just I mean, I've seen it I've seen it just destroy my family in a different form. Obviously, I was into drugs and my alcohol is usually the the substance that is affecting many of my other family members. But it's does the same thing. It just tears everybody apart.

Scott Benner 26:49
When you were younger. What what kinds of drugs? I

Kat 26:53
started with cocaine. And then in rehab. I switched to meth.

Scott Benner 27:01
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, jump right in cat. Yeah, no. skipped right over all of the stuff that like you were just like, Wait, I don't wait. It's not enough. I'm gonna go right there. Yeah. Wow. And

Kat 27:15
then I think because my dad smoked weed that I was just like, I'm not doing that. I'm gonna be better than him and not smoke weed.

Scott Benner 27:23
I'll do an upscale drug like, okay, yeah, good for you. Wait a way to pull together. I heard you laugh under your voice when you said in rehab I started using.

Kat 27:33
Because it's crazy. I think about it now. And I'm like that. It just is. It's, it's sad, honestly, because it's a place where you're supposed to go to get better. And it's the place where I found more connections, I found people who were like me who are going through similar things, who had their own dealers and their own connections. And then we were just a bunch of people. If you weren't in the mindset of actually getting better. We were just a bunch of people with all these connections. Now, ya

Scott Benner 28:02
know, it's like the Lions Club for meth. You're like, yeah, these guys all get together in a room drink coffee and like, trade phone numbers. Wow, that's fascinating. And then the people and there are people that are really like on the right path, and they just don't. You don't bother with them. The other people are running. You can tell business. Yeah. And it's and it's all money focused, I would imagine, too, right? Like you're trying to sell or, you know, sell so that you have more like, oh, wow, it's just, it's all the same thing. It's the same thing is the as the functioning alcoholic thing, except you're trying to be a functioning meth user. How long does that work for by the way? And do you have? Oh, God, I do have all my teeth for you.

Kat 28:46
I don't know how long that lasted. That's crazy.

Scott Benner 28:48
What's the difference? Between I can't play with a mask? And what's the difference between the highs from cocaine to meth?

Kat 28:56
So what my memory sucks because of it? I think I have a little bit of brain damage going on because of it. But I think that the the transition from cocaine to meth was necessary because the, I mean, I was using so much cocaine, that it was falling out of my nose because my nose was so inflamed that nothing else could go in. And so the need to do more and do more was there and mess. You know, like, surpass that. So

Scott Benner 29:28
let's talk about delivery. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's interesting. How do you How does I mean? I'm assuming there was a rock bottom moment. How did you get out of it? I guess like what precipitates getting out of it. I

Kat 29:44
don't recall the exact moment but nothing happened. I just, I actually so I went into rehab after having a breakdown from not having Any more cocaine. I contacted my mom and she said I was freaking out. And she called my therapist and my therapist put me in, but it was it was, what, two or three months after I gave my son up for adoption. So it's a thought it was due to depression. They didn't know about my drug use until I entered rehab. And the therapist kind of brought it out of me, and then he snitched on me, which I thought he couldn't do because patient, Doctor confidentiality, saw

Scott Benner 30:33
that on Grey's Anatomy, and you were like, I'll be okay. I can tell them.

Kat 30:36
Yeah, apparently, it's out words.

Scott Benner 30:39
I didn't realize that this was all happening when you were so young. Yes, yeah.

Kat 30:44
And a funny not but not funny. The place I went, is currently where my mother is.

Scott Benner 30:53
Did full circle did you get like a punch card? Like a referral service? Do you know? I asked? Can I get anything for free? If all of us come?

Kat 31:02
Yeah, we'll keep you in business.

Scott Benner 31:04
Is it possible to have a relationship during the life you're describing? I know, you said you're a single mom over and over again. But like, did you try? Yeah,

Kat 31:13
cuz I have bouts where I was not using. I mean, I was sober for 10 years. Until I decided Mali was the thing that I wanted to try. It wasn't out when I was using. So let's give it a go.

Scott Benner 31:26
Where does that come from? Where does that try to find that thought for me. You've been sober for 10 years, your kid you're doing your thing. It's all going right. And then one day, you're like, hey, you know what I should do? Molly.

Kat 31:39
I had, I had a bad influence. My best friend. She was is an addict. And I think she just allowed me to give myself the okay to do it. She came back into my life. Like when I was sober. I cut her out of my life because it was too much. And for some reason, she comes around every once in a while. And if I let her in, my life turns to shit. Yeah. And that's exactly what happened. I let her in. And then she's, you know, in that state, and it just kind of sucks you back in? And what and? I mean, it just took over again.

Scott Benner 32:19
Does it look fun? Or inviting? Or how do you like when you see her? Hi, what are you? What's the thought? It

Kat 32:24
looks like a mess. It's not it's not a pretty sight, but I'm not her. So our our two ways of, of how we are when we're using are completely different. So I am more of a functioning? Well, I would think I thought of myself as more of a functioning user until I couldn't stop using.

Scott Benner 32:44
Yeah, I was gonna say that's the interpretation from a person who called her mom to call her mom to complain. There wasn't enough cocaine. So mom, I need help. Okay. Like, you know, I just can't get enough coke. So I called my mom again. That's, yeah, I guess while you're doing it, you don't know. But when you're hearing it as the person who's so stupid, yeah, you're like, Oh, wow. That's, it's like, it's like, if you ever heard that there's a great, a great audio clip online. Back before the internet was so like, full of video and stuff like that, where this guy just calls 911. And he's like, hello, I'm dead. And they're like, yes. And he's, he's just he's tried to like, eat like a pot Brown. He's like an older man. He had a pot brownie for the first time he calls the cops to tell them that he died. And that it's because he ate weed and he needs help. Yes, I have heard that. That's great. In my mind, that's you call it your mom.

Kat 33:43
Pretty much. Like who's the last person

Scott Benner 33:45
I should tell that I'm using cocaine to? I'm gonna go with my mom. And then and then I'm gonna complain about availability. Wow, that's crazy. Did your nose hold up? Did it didn't collapse that

Kat 33:56
I have hold on my septum. But yeah, that's good.

Scott Benner 34:01
You know, the comedian Artie Lange? I do not his his whole nose collapsed. It's it's just it's the

Kat 34:08
it's the crazy you're about to say fantastic. I

Scott Benner 34:10
know. But I didn't mean fantastic in the way of like, it's amazing. Fantastic. Like, it's fantastic in in how like, insane. It is. Like, yeah, like, by the way you can use fantastic in different ways. I didn't mean but I did stop myself because I was like, I don't want to explain what I mean. But it's just it's so crazy. And just unlike anything I've ever seen in my life. And, and yet, it doesn't matter, right? Because when your friend comes along with the MOLLE you're like, I won't. I want it up like that. Not me. Not me is how is the phrase that gets everybody into trouble. I won't get pregnant. It's okay, go ahead.

Kat 34:52
You can just you think you can just try a little and you'll you'll be okay. And some people can and that's and that's very uh, setting, but some people can actually do that. Gambling

Scott Benner 35:02
is no different than this either. It's all sort of the same stuff. Yeah, just make a bet. placed one bet. And then the next thing you know, it's three weeks later, and you're like, cool. I'd

Kat 35:13
like to gamble too. Yeah. Well, I

Scott Benner 35:15
bet you do. Call on your Yeah. Call it but so this sounds like a family thing.

Kat 35:19
Oh, yeah. Yeah. My brother had a gambling problem. Yeah, I think addiction is just like, embedded in my family.

Scott Benner 35:26
Is it wrong for me to ask what genre you are? Your family? You know, I mean, guys, Irish. You Italian? What are you? Exactly?

Kat 35:34
We are Polish. English. I think there are some Irish in there.

Scott Benner 35:41
Okay. All right. All right. Okay. So I love so far my favorite part of this conversation is that you thought you were going to be interesting on the podcast, because of the way your mom figured out that your kid had diabetes. Holan Ardens. Colony? This never happens. Give me a second. Yes, sir. Our exam, right. I'm recording. Is this like a big thing? What do you need? You have a tie that a question. Okay. Can Can people hear it? Can I record it? Or do you want to keep it private? Good. That means switch your it's your Dexcom. Yeah, well, you're into your grace period, which means like 12 hours ago, it would have told you or something like that. But it only takes it only takes 30 minutes to warm up. So just pop it on. All right. Good luck. God, God, God, what do you got? Hold on. Sorry, I can't I'll be right back on. I'm in the middle of talking to cat. She's living a life of addiction. And she's clean now. And now we're talking about your Dexcom? Don't be sorry, it's fine. You're fine. You just need to switch your Dexcom the g7? You can but yeah, you can you can you're not going to have numbers for 30 minutes. If you do that. You can also put the new one on. And then 30 aren't good luck. Bye. I have a diabetic question.

Kat 37:01
I thought she had been wearing the g7

Scott Benner 37:03
or second one. So she didn't know that. Yeah, so she's had g7 on one time while I was there for a trip just to test it so that we'd know. She could switch on our own college while I wasn't there. Then she made the switch. So her like her first one, she switched out, you know, 10 days. This one apparently she got there into like finals now. And everything like she's running around like a lunatic trying to keep up with with school. And it sounds like the the new g7 has a grace period, which is kind of terrific. Because you know, otherwise, this one would have shut down at the end of 10 days. So she just gets this notification like your grace periods over in an hour. But she's got to be at class and our she's like, what does that mean? Like it means to get a change. What she wouldn't let me tell her is that the grace periods over and an hour, so she's gonna swap them real quickly and then not have data for a half hour, she could actually put a new g7 on, wait 30 minutes, then swap them. And she'd never be without data. But that seemed like that as she was rushing through the door, and I heard doors banging and everything. And she's running back to her room to get a Dexcom. I think perhaps that might have been too much information. So I'll cover that when I see her in a couple of weeks. Anyway, I said like I'm talking to cat and cats like blah, blah, blah. And she goes well, I'm sorry, but hold on.

Kat 38:27
It's very important.

Scott Benner 38:28
She doesn't she doesn't call me and it wasn't a FaceTime. That's how I knew like she actually needed something. Cuz Yeah, she's trying to connect quickly. Whereas when they just want to chat like they pop up on FaceTime and stuff like that. So anyway, no worries. My amusement is that you thought the the interesting part of this conversation, but was about your mom, but did you really think that you listen to the podcast? Of course I do. You knew we were going to talk about this then. Yeah. Did you want to talk about it? Do you think? I don't care? If it I mean, like subconsciously, did you think I'll go on that podcast and we'll talk about this stuff? I'm trying to figure out if people come here for therapy. Yes.

Kat 39:05
You know, I did just sign up with BetterHelp. So I am definitely in need of therapy. Cat.

Scott Benner 39:11
Did you use my link better? help.com forward slash juicebox? I sure did they give you 10% off your first month of therapy when you signed up? They sure did. Wow. That's amazing. Thank you.

Kat 39:21
It does amazing. Thank you. Yeah,

Scott Benner 39:23
let me know. I'd love to know how it goes actually. Well, yeah, it was it's one of those things. A lot of companies come to me and they want to buy ads, which is cool. Like I'm happy about that. But I try to keep this stuff very focused on what I think the listeners might generally need or want. And this one just like I just kept thinking, therapy, you know, as many people as I speak to who I kind of quietly in my head think this person needs to go to therapy, and I never really say it out loud. I always think like access to it must be the biggest problem for people like that actually, like getting up off your ass and go into someone's office and sitting down probably feels like a bridge too far. And I thought, Yeah, I wonder if this like virtual therapy thing isn't isn't good for people. So anyway, hopefully, hopefully it all works out and it's good. A good experience. Yep. Yeah. So you just want to talk to somebody, I need to talk to somebody, because if not, go ahead what happens?

Kat 40:19
I'm going to hurt my mother.

Scott Benner 40:24
When I thought you're gonna Okay, wow. I'm

Kat 40:30
trying to finally like being an adult, you know, and I've tried to set boundaries with her and it's just not getting through. And I'm, yeah, I think everybody needs therapy. Everybody should have like a required therapy session once a month or something. It's very necessary.

Scott Benner 40:49
I'm using weego V to lose weight. Right. And by the way, I got up this morning, and I'm down like, I think I'm like 19 or 20 pounds now. Crazy in two months. Right. And I just that thank you, I, I feel so much better. And like all this other stuff, right. But I recorded with Erica the other day, who's the therapist, because I was experiencing this hollow feeling around food, which threw me off because I'm not like a foodie to begin with. And but I guess I don't spend as much time prepping food, shopping, cooking, eating, cleaning up like that whole, like everybody knows, like, although a ton of work that goes into food, right? And I'm not doing that any longer to that degree. And I started feeling like I was missing something. Like I honestly had like a hollow feeling. And I asked Erica to come on to talk about it. And we're talking about it. And like 45 minutes into the conversation we're somehow talking about, like, when I was a kid, and like all this stuff. And she's reminding people like, I'm not Scott's therapist. But all I can say is that probably every thought you're having, you know, maybe one in two of them stems from something you don't consider. So yeah, yeah. Anyway, I feel really good. And I know. But it was nice to talk to her. And now, by the way, like that hollow feeling that I described, since I spoke to her. I haven't had any more. Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, yes. So makes you wonder what would happen if your, your parents would have talked to somebody? You know, 50 years ago, the first time they were like, I have to drink to get through a day? Mm hmm.

Kat 42:34
Yeah. Just so that was normal back then. Oh,

Scott Benner 42:38
sure. Oh, yeah. That was like get sick, or there were cigarettes. And for your nerves, right? Like I would I would? Do you know, I grew up with people who said they smoke cigarettes to calm their stomach. Well, that's a very common thing you would hear from people I just smoke a cigarette, it calms my stomach down. So, you know, I don't think it's crazy. Then people's understanding of every everything just changes so greatly, like generation after generation. Like I was talking to Jenny and like a diabetes like myth episode. And I said, if you would have told my mom that the like, the sugar water in our refrigerator when I was growing up that we drank by the gallon, day after day after day, right? If you would have told my mom that wasn't good for you, she would have looked at you and like pointed to the label and said there's there's lemons, lemons, grown trees. You don't I mean, look, there's a picture of a lemon on it. A lemon is a fruit. I'm giving you something healthy. Yeah. So yeah, people don't don't get it. But now you're you're caught in the middle, like you, you get it, because now there's more information in the world and you understand, but you also grew up with them. So I'm assuming your life's goal. Like if I asked you what your life's goal is around parenting, I think you're going to say what I'm thinking, but I'm going to ask you anyway. You just you, I felt pressure. Not a lot of pressure. But here's what I think. I think you're trying very hard for your daughter not to grow up the way you grew up. Yes. 100%. Right. Is it? Is it working?

Kat 44:08
I think so. I mean, I think the proof is in the pudding of her just being such an amazing person that nobody in my family understands how she's my child, because everybody my family knows me. So it just doesn't those who just don't add up.

Scott Benner 44:22
Well, that's so that's your level of like, of measurement. You're like people think that's not my kid, so that's a good but don't you think here I'll be your therapist for a second cat. Okay. Couldn't you have been that person with the right upbringing? I don't know. You could have been. You definitely.

Kat 44:44
Then it would have been something else.

Scott Benner 44:45
Maybe? I don't know. Like, do you think that the the addiction thing is burned into your brain or do you think it's something you learned? Both

Kat 44:57
I grew up in a very small town there was nothing to do Oh, besides get in trouble.

Scott Benner 45:02
Yeah, that that one baffles me a little bit like the small town lot of drugs thing like Midwestern like, that kind of like thing like, right like why is it when you're in a small town? It's like well, there's nothing to do so we did math, which is a hell of a way to go into a movie. And and like, oh, I grew up in a big city and we're always partying so we did this. Like, like, it's the is the boredom that crazy? Yeah. It just goes on and on day after day, hour after hour, not Yeah,

Kat 45:35
I mean, there, there was the only thing there was to do in my town was go to Sonic and hold that

Scott Benner 45:41
thought. Hi, yards. What's up? Okay, go ahead. It says the sensor failed. Okay, well, then just follow the instructions and start a new one. I mean, I don't know. I'm not there. I don't know what happened. Right. Yeah. Replace this answer. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we're very new with this one. So I don't know if there's a workaround for that. So I would just start another one. Yeah, yeah. That sucks. I know. You're, you're short on time. Okay, go ahead and do that. Good luck, by when it rains candidate pours.

Kat 46:32
Of course, when she has finals. She's

Scott Benner 46:34
like, I'm all done. It says like, you know, I did the whole thing. I paired the Bluetooth blah, blah, blah. It's all ready to go. And then like seven minutes into the warm up, it said sensor failure. And I don't know if that's a thing that would have like, gone away. Like, you know, because sometimes Yeah, but these things like it. Can give it a second. Yeah, yeah. It'll just be okay. I don't know what hell let it go. Wait, just swap it. I have extras here. I'll bring an extra receipt or in a week so I can bring an extra one with me. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Sonic.

Kat 47:08
Sonic. Yes. Yeah. That was about the biggest thing there was to do. Yeah, we had an outdoor volleyball court. So it was like, better than most people Sonics. But when the whole city is there, or the town? You know, it just that's, that's all you have to do?

Scott Benner 47:25
Do you think that if there was more to do, there'd be less drug use?

Kat 47:29
Possibly. But you're just stuck in like, the small town is great to grow up in but you got to get out or you'll never get out. Like you get stuck. And it's just generation after generation just gets stuck. They're doing the same jobs, the same family jobs running the same, you know, family operations, and it's just so stagnant. But they're just so afraid to leave?

Scott Benner 47:51
Yeah, it's boring. Yeah, your brain just shuts off. I got it. Okay. And then you drink. Or you try coax like bracing? Right? Like, zoom? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow. And when is the first time you used? How

Kat 48:10
old? Maybe? 12.

Scott Benner 48:14
Wow. Wow, that's crazy. Where do you get it from it? 12 anywhere?

Kat 48:21
Yeah, I mean, I it started with my friend, that best friend of mine. That's not a good influence person to have. Yeah. It started with her. Just having connections with her. And then you kind of

Scott Benner 48:36
you always have access to it, then that old like parenting chestnut of like, keeping the bad kids away from your kids. It's really a good thing to do.

Kat 48:42
It's really a good thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 48:45
How many friends? Do you allow your daughter to have one?

Kat 48:50
No, I mean, it's just, she's just different. Even though she has like some friends where I'm kinda like, yeah, she reminds me exactly of my old best friend. My daughter is not influenced by any of that she could care less. She's like, not into boys. She's just about school and sports. It's amazing.

Scott Benner 49:11
It's not exactly birds of a feather flock together then like it's, it's, it's a little bit of, you know, once you're there, how do you handle it? Yeah, and some people hate

Kat 49:20
I mean, she'll, she'll call me if she's uncomfortable, you know, and want to come home. Just again. I don't know how she's my child.

Scott Benner 49:28
Hey, I don't know if this is an uncomfortable question. But her father is he an addictive personality?

Kat 49:33
No. Okay. I don't think he ever did drugs or anything.

Scott Benner 49:40
Or anything.

Kat 49:44
For actually here, I think he was addicted to porn, so maybe he does.

Scott Benner 49:49
I was gonna say like, you were the bad influence in his life.

Kat 49:51
I actually met him. afterwards. Our rehab group had a party at his apartment. That's how I met him. Your

Scott Benner 50:00
rehab group had a party at his apartment. But that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Whenever the rehab group gets together, I think you go No, thanks. I can't go. What are you? What are you all is just looking for for customers? I gotcha. Well, yeah, it's like a built in Salesforce. Yeah. Really? Is that something? But if you gave everybody money, like if you like you thought about Utopia from it where you've money wasn't important. The boredom would still be there. So yeah, what your

Kat 50:34
real money? I was gonna say 12

Scott Benner 50:37
Were the like, that was the thing. I was like, how did you afford a 12 years old? I just feel bubblegum. I was like, I can't, I don't know. Five cents. So

Kat 50:46
I just never ate lunch. But I always needed lunch money.

Scott Benner 50:50
I see. You used your lunch money for cocaine when you were 12. I did. That's something else. You shouldn't be on this podcast should be should be on like 2020. No, thank you, or I should be getting more of respect as an interviewer one or the other. Okay, wow. That's crazy. Okay, so hold on. That one got me. Like I literally like I do remember being like, pinched, pinched for like shoplifting bubble gum once. And my parents they punished me. I sat in a room for a week, a week, in a bedroom with no television. No radio. No nothing during my summer vacation. That's how my parents handled me shoplifting like 20 cents worth of bubblegum.

Kat 51:41
You're not supposed to get caught.

Scott Benner 51:43
You know what? Looking back, I am disappointed in myself. I'll tell you what, I worked in that 711 As a teenager, I never caught anybody stealing anything.

Kat 51:58
Yeah, you really suck at that turns

Scott Benner 51:59
out I'm no good on either end of that problem. Oh, that's hilarious. But I'll tell you what, like at the end of those seven days, they let me out of that bedroom. Felt like it felt like they opened the doors at Rikers Island for the first time. Like, I was like, I will steal anything. Thank you for letting me out.

Kat 52:21
Maybe that's what my parents should have done to me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 52:24
that's the 70s right there. They were like you're a problem. Get in there. Like lovely. They fed you. I'm glad there was a room now that I'm thinking about it. Could have been in a closet who would have known? They did feed me. Although, I don't know. I'm thinking back on myself. I probably could have skipped a meal or two back then it might not have been a problem. The way they were feeding me sugar, water and bread with cheese. Here have more bread. Yeah, I have some bread with cheese and a glass of sugar. Thank you. Let's find a way to blame them cat. Maybe my brain wasn't working right because of my nutrition. Oh my god. So you had some money? That's craziness. Wow, did you move you didn't get away, you're near your mom.

Kat 53:07
I did move. I moved out of the small town when I was a sophomore, to be more competitive in sports, because we didn't have a lot of scouts coming down to the small town. And that just allowed me to have more I saw i i moved to a very, like, I would say like rich white school. And the first day I was there, I was going in to take my entrance entrance exams. And some kid walked up to me and offered me drugs. And I was like, and I was like, I was like I y'all do that here. Like I I was just in disbelief. And then I'm like, Well, of course they do. They have more access to it. They have money, they can get these things. But it was just so shocking, that I left this small town and came to a place that had it even worse.

Scott Benner 54:00
Wow. What What sport were you trying to excel in?

Kat 54:04
Everything? Volleyball soccer track.

Scott Benner 54:07
We had all that coke energy, I guess so.

Kat 54:11
Yeah, you know what? It never really affected me. I don't know how I really don't know how I got through it. I shouldn't be alive right now. But I know

Scott Benner 54:18
we're joking about it. Because it's kind of horrible. But like it's yeah, interesting and, and fascinating. Yeah, so you got there. And did you think this will help me like, oh, by the way, you facilitated a move as a sophomore?

Kat 54:32
Yeah, so we had volleyball tryouts. And I didn't make a team and my dad, which is crazy because I was the best person on the team. And the coach didn't like me, because I had an ego. But after they didn't put me on a team, literally that same day, my dad went up there yelled at them, made them cry, and we moved

Scott Benner 54:56
crazy drunk energy your dad had something like that. He's like we're getting out of here. Like that's it over this. Maybe your dad really thought like, maybe he was trying to do. I mean, it's hard to look back and see people doing things. So obviously wrong and believe that they were still had good motivations too, but maybe your dad was like, I can get her out of here. Like maybe he was trying to save you, you know? Maybe Yeah, it's hard for you to think of it that way. Because you probably think he's an asshole. But like shitting Apple, the function? Yes. Oh, look at you trying to rename the episode again. To try but I can't put an S hole in the title. So isn't it something if you don't have a functioning asshole, you're in a lot of trouble. You really are. No kidding. But then in that situation, not what you're looking for. Boom. Okay, so you go to another high school. Okay. All right. That's enough. I can't take any more of your life. Let me ask you about diabetes stuff. Literally, your, your Friday, I'm going to be doing cocaine before this is over. So recommended. No, don't worry, I'm good. I'm not going to be doing that. diabetes stuff. So you're raising a kid for the last handful of years. Whereas type one you didn't have much to knowledge of it. You're, you know, you're prone to, you know, kind of turning to drugs if you have problems and things like that. So can you talk a little bit about after her diagnosis, like what was her able and see like, how high was her blood sugar when you guys figured it out? And then how have you been managing moving forward?

Kat 56:35
So in the hospital, she was like, 600 700. So Ray, once he was around, like 13, or 14, we had, I think, the luck of the draw, honestly, the doctor that was on call when my daughter was admitted, is still her current doctor. And she's amazing. She set us up for success. You know, we got the JDRF backpack and all of that stuff which had a an omni pod and it I don't think it had the Dexcom information in there. But we left the hospital on just pins and a glucometer. And then I notified my my birth son's mother, you know that my daughter just got diagnosed and the first thing she told me was good index calm. So she was the one who informed me about the ducks calm. So we were on the Dexcom shortly after that. And we stayed on MDI for about a year and then we switched to the Omni pod and use that up until two months ago when she finally switched to the Omni pod five.

Scott Benner 57:40
Wow, how are you finding that? Ami pod five.

Kat 57:43
Good and bad. Yeah. So her her school struck? I don't know what she what happens to her when she goes to school, but it just cannot keep up with her. Like we're just feeding it insulin, and it just doesn't touch her when she's at school.

Scott Benner 57:58
How long has she been using it?

Kat 57:59
The five? Yeah, about to about two months. Okay.

Scott Benner 58:02
Did you listen to the episodes about setting it up before you set it up? I did. Okay, and so you feel like you were pretty 5050 Basal Bolus and pretty aggressive with total daily insulin. So

Kat 58:15
did I change? I turned up everything. I turned up her carb, insulin to carb ratio I, I turned up everything made everything more aggressive. And it just doesn't matter. So

Scott Benner 58:25
is it you think? Does she have maybe a lot of adrenaline at school school mean a lot to her?

Kat 58:33
Yeah, it's gotta be what it is. And it's not the same thing every day, like on the ad days where she has obviously the same things. It's different than when she has V days. So it it completely is affecting her by what she's having at school. What subjects is what I'm assuming? Yeah. Okay. But when but when we first started, it was over spring break. And it was working perfect. So I really think it is just her school.

Scott Benner 58:58
Just gonna say so she's home. And there's no pressure from school. There's no adrenaline, anxiety, whatever it comes from school. I don't know who like who she is. And like, maybe she's just trying real hard and like, jacked up. So when she's at home, it works great when she's getting that. It's not touching it because it doesn't see it as carbs. And it has no way to get in front of it. Yeah. And you're correcting all

Kat 59:22
the time. It's it's a it's it's just funky how they have it set up. Like she'll have locker right after not even an hour after she eats lunch on some days. And it's just, it's just lucky.

Scott Benner 59:37
So does she find herself bolusing a lot and what numbers are we asked that we can't get away from? Like, what

Kat 59:44
is not not crazy, like just a higher than I would like like if she's sitting at 150 I'm trying to get her to have it come down before she gets to lunch because I know. Lunchtime. I'm gonna give her less than she needs because she has soccer right after which she can't have so much in her system that is going to make her go low, but has to be high enough that the stuff she does have in our system will keep her stable. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:07
so the higher blood sugar running into the meal running into the activity is throwing your timing off for everything. So you're getting out of time with the insulin and your impacts. Yeah, but 150 I'll see you definitely listen to this podcast. You're like, it's it's terrible. It's 150

Kat 1:00:23
I'm anal about it too. But I mean, it's it's gotten stuck higher. But it's normally it's just if it's over my comfortability, then I'm bugging her to Bolus

Scott Benner 1:00:36
Do you see it happening as soon as she gets to school because for Arden, like you drop her off at high school and her blood sugar started to go up.

Kat 1:00:42
Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:43
yeah. Could you try bolusing for it? As she gets there?

Kat 1:00:47
It's not It's not every day, though. That's the there's no, there's no pattern to it. And she has she doesn't have periods, like are irregular periods, I would say. So you we can't ever catch those. So I don't know if it's, you know, her hormone time, because she's obviously still having the hormones. She is just so athletic with zero body fat that she's just not menstruating. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:12
You said that's not a ton. Okay. Hey, you want to do something with me for a second? I guess we don't have to dirty or anything like that. I just, I'm gonna do something that you guys might not expect. I'm gonna go to my own Facebook group and try to find help for Arden with her Dexcom problem.

Kat 1:01:32
Oh, my goodness, because it's really, it's

Scott Benner 1:01:35
a meta situation right now. Arden is switching? Oh, hold on. She's asking me a question to give me a second. are just switching her g7 and getting this message? Anyone know how to fix this?

I'm not lying about this Facebook group is pretty great. I know. Yeah. So are you in there?

Kat 1:02:17
I am. I'm a spectator. That's perfect. Most

Scott Benner 1:02:21
people are I think. I think that's the way to go. She

Kat 1:02:27
Yeah, he just grabbed the information you need. Next one.

Scott Benner 1:02:40
So I think people probably think like, oh, they're a sponsor. He's not going to say anything bad. Like, first of all, I don't think this is bad. I think there's just something happening. I don't know what to do. Because it's so new. Yeah. Yeah. But also, technology is not perfect. But anybody like I don't care what pump or glucose monitor Dexcom whatever. It's all just technology. You know, Jenny and I were talking about that the other day, how interesting it is that like, if you think of all the technology in your life, it all none of it works the way you want it to like you buy things for your living room and your kitchen and your bedroom. You're always like, Oh, my God isn't doesn't exactly do blah, blah, blah. But when it's a medical thing, people are like, it should be perfect. I mean, yeah, it's pretty great. You don't mean, perfect is, is going to be an issue. I don't know how you're gonna do that. Sorry. So we'll see if anybody gets back to me. I

Kat 1:03:28
just talked. So that's her, like, first time changing it out. I hope it doesn't sway her.

Scott Benner 1:03:32
Like her third time changing it. I'm gonna guess. Literally, I don't know. But I'm gonna guess that this is going to be some sort of a thing where she should have like, put the other one away from her father when she did it or something like that, that maybe confused between the two of them or?

Kat 1:03:52
Yeah, yeah, we're in the microwave.

Scott Benner 1:03:55
I've heard people say that, right? Because there's a Faraday cage on a microwave. So again, and if she would have started it while we were here, I'd have a firmer understanding of it right now than I do at the moment, although at least the graph she put up is very respectable. Because she took a screenshot, and it's got like her last three hours on it. And then and it says that it has and it says sensor failed. So are you switching her g7 and getting this message? Anyone know how to fix this? She already removed one. And the next one did the same thing. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll see what happens. In real time. We'll see how impressive this Facebook group is.

Kat 1:04:35
Oh, yeah, you're gonna get a response very soon. I don't

Scott Benner 1:04:40
know it's become so popular. Like sometimes I don't. People don't even realize it's me anymore. People joke with me all the time. That that I'll say something and somebody will come in and be like, I don't know who Scott is or why we why we all care so much. Like it's okay. Back when it was smaller people who I was, but it's fascinating because you know, the group, the group has two very important things. It has mass of people. So you you, you can actually get an answer. And and it's nice people are nice. And that's a big deal. Because yeah, you know, I've seen it go the other way. Yeah, I've got a response already. Yeah, but I'm trying to, we hit okay and start a new sensor with a new sensor. What does she have the new sensor on? That's coming up?

Alright, I answered. I said, the new one is on. Let me tell Arden to. I said, I'm looking into it. I'll get you an answer for now open your loop and test every hour. Does anybody want to guess if it'll test every hour? No, but I'm gonna guess no to. So? Well. We'll stay on top of that. Yeah. We'll say it's all going to be fine. Well, that's the other thing too is that I think that there are plenty of people who would hear this and be like, Oh, my God, like it's a disaster. And it's not a disaster. It's just, it's what this stuff is like you have diabetes. It's how it goes. how it goes. Try reentering the session, the sensor number. That's not an answer. Besides, I did it already paired with the new sensor code? Yes. And then this happens a few minutes later. It's like, it's like I have live chat bots to talk to know and extremely impressive. They understand what's happening. And I'm trying very hard to keep our conversation with you and I going at the same time, which I think I'm starting to fail, because now I'm texting art and talking to you and messaging with two different people on Facebook.

Kat 1:07:00
That's right. Men aren't supposed to multitask. Hey, you

Scott Benner 1:07:03
know, my wife says that all the time as I'm doing four things at once. She's like, you can't keep things in your head. And I'm like, Okay, I'm like, I don't know. Hold on a second. Is there more coming? Or feedback?

No, not yet. Okay. Why are people not living on my schedule?

Kat 1:07:27
So I don't know. It's lunchtime. Yeah. Everybody should be available.

Scott Benner 1:07:31
So my expectation for your daughter is that she's experiencing like, she just is she like a good student? She wants to get good grades, that kind of thing? Yes. Yeah. Do you have any, like interpersonal problems at school? No, no, then she's probably just that I'm aware of. Yeah, I guess she's probably just like, it's adrenaline and, you know, stress. Yeah, that kind of stuff. But she

Kat 1:07:53
does take a hard caseload.

Scott Benner 1:07:56
Okay. Yeah. So she's trying to like She probably feels the pressure that and then it impacts your blood sugar.

Kat 1:08:03
Yeah, yeah. We only put the the Omnipod five on because she's going to Europe for the summer. And I'm not going with her. And I want her to be able to be better managed while she's there. Because my aunt's that she's going with the same two that took her to the doctor when she got diagnosed. No, nothing about it.

Scott Benner 1:08:24
Oh, great.

Kat 1:08:28
Wonderful.

Scott Benner 1:08:28
So what do you how do you think that's gonna go? I

Kat 1:08:31
will get less sleep than I normally do. Because of the time change.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
You think you're gonna be managing basically from a distance? Oh, absolutely.

Kat 1:08:38
Yeah. Do you find out or it's not self sufficient and management? How long are you going to be with them? They're gonna be in Europe for like, six, seven weeks. Wow.

Scott Benner 1:08:47
Is there no way they could spend a couple hours or days with their before the trip locally? I

Kat 1:08:54
mean, they, they do. I mean, they're with us all the time. It's not that

Scott Benner 1:08:58
they're seeing it. Okay. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, did they follow her CGM. Now?

Kat 1:09:03
No, they used to when she was like, she was first diagnosed, and she would spend the night over there. I would hook them up to it. But they're there. So I'm just not trying to put too much on them. I'm just going to do it from afar. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 1:09:21
Yeah, because I was thinking like, could they follow along and maybe for a couple days you could text like she just ate this and we use this much insulin so they could kind of see how it happens.

Kat 1:09:29
Oh, no, no, that's not gonna work. It's all right. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:09:33
well good. Do you think it's gonna go well, yeah,

Kat 1:09:35
I do. I like I think the the time we had the the five on before she went to school was really good. So I'm just hoping that that returns

Scott Benner 1:09:45
Well, I'm gonna guess that on. I been on vacation, right? She should have like because you say it doesn't happen at home. So I bet she has more of a more of that kind of experience on vacation than she does at home. Unless something stressful hops on vacation, but I mean vacations. Yeah. And so on. The one thing I would ask is, Is she going to go right from school to vacation? Or will there be a little break before vacation? So have about a week? Good. You know, I'm asking that. Yeah. Because if you're being real aggressive at school, and they go right to a more like, it's gonna be low. It could be low than Yeah. Especially with the activity and the walking around. And I'm guessing flying and things like, yeah, yeah. Very cool. You have enough supplies to send whether you got that all straight? I do. Will she have glucagon? She will. Excellent. Which one do you use to evoke? Oh, the hype open? Yeah, it's the best one. Because I use Bolus because it's I do think it's the simplest Yeah, that's Well, that's exactly why I like it. Yeah. And I hear about the burning in the nose and stuff from the other thing sometimes. And I mean, I guess in in a real emergency situation, you would take some burning, and you'd be like, whatever. Absolutely. But still,

Kat 1:10:55
I think it's I think it's about the the ease for other people, because obviously other people are going to be using it. So the I think that's the target is you have to have them be able to use it. So an epi pen like function is so much more familiar to people than what it was previously or a nasal spray.

Scott Benner 1:11:17
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, we never carried them when they were the old like Lily red boxes. We didn't carry them with us anywhere. I was like, yeah, what am I gonna tell you hoping someone's gonna, especially if you're by yourself, what are you hoping someone's going to find that on you and go, Oh, it must be this thing. Yeah. Not a lot of hope.

Kat 1:11:36
It's not going to work. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:11:38
Well, alright. So otherwise you think she's, she's had, I should just ask the question. How was she? With having diabetes? Like, was there a transition period? That was tough for has it been okay, so far? Does she burn out? A

Kat 1:11:54
little bit of everything. I mean, when she was first diagnosed, she did really well, she gave her shot herself, her first shot in the hospital. And then, you know, there are just moments where I think, mentally there are some things going on, like, you know, depression and stuff like that, where it all starts to build up and then she just blames diabetes. But I think for the most part, it's just, she doesn't remember life before it. So it's just become part of who she is now. And I think it's just becoming more more regular for her.

Scott Benner 1:12:28
Okay. Yeah, that's, I mean, sounds like depression, like, bummed out or actual like, no, yeah, like, bummed out. Yeah. Like not like clinical depression. I don't know. No sense to me. Does she have any trouble with kids? Like, people never give her does she get bullied or hear crap about? Nothing like that? No. Cool. So because she's got this little great circle of friends that she Yeah, it's interesting. Well, good for you know, she really does. That's wonderful. It's a hell of a story. Honestly, cat, I'm impressed. The path your life took and where you're at right now, are you? Do you ever stop and think, Wow, I can't believe I'm here.

Kat 1:13:08
All the time. Yeah. Because

Scott Benner 1:13:10
it just seemed like, Did you always think you were on your way to like, some poor ending?

Kat 1:13:17
I've always felt had this, like, weird feeling that my life would be short. Not to say that it's still couldn't quote unquote, but yeah, I've always had this, like, need to do things, because I've just felt like my time is short.

Scott Benner 1:13:33
Really? Yeah. That sucks. Is that a? Is that a pressure that that has disappeared? Or do you still feel that a little bit?

Kat 1:13:47
I still feel it a little bit.

Scott Benner 1:13:49
What do you think? Like, do you? Is it trying to figure out how to ask this question? Where does that feeling come from though? Because it just because of circumstances and you just consciously think, you know, with drugs and alcohol and addiction and stuff? Like there's no way I'm going to make it the whole way? Yeah,

Kat 1:14:06
it's that easy. And I think I think it stems from there, but it's just this feeling of always had. Okay, I don't I don't really know how to explain it. But yeah, obviously, the abuse that I put myself through, like, at some point, is it gonna catch up to me? It has to right. No,

Scott Benner 1:14:22
it sounds like you're doing okay. Doesn't it? I mean, you're, you're in your 30s Right, so I think you're gonna be fine. You just have to help so you guys gotta keep that one girlfriend away from you.

Kat 1:14:37
She's she's actually recovering right now. She's been I think, like a year sober from heroin. Well, she's doing well. Oh, good

Scott Benner 1:14:46
for her. Well, that's, that's that's a difficult road. That's impressive. Yeah, it really is. Now, how do you know that? Are you in touch? No,

Kat 1:14:56
I don't. I do not keep in touch. Third, just because I know what happens when I do, but she she will reach out to me and she just apologized like she's probably in her. What is that phase and addiction? It's a man's not coming, Gary go. Yeah. So she's making amends. And she had sent me a message. And just explained everything to me then. And I just told her that I was proud of her and congratulations and get

Scott Benner 1:15:24
the hell away from me. Yeah, we have pretty much you don't want to push her in the wrong direction. So you just very politely get back to her. Yes, yeah. Yeah,

Kat 1:15:35
cuz it's tough. I know. It's tough. And it's a little hard for me, in my circumstance right now with my mom. Because I did it like I, I did it. And I went to rehab. Yes. But it did nothing. For me. It actually made me worse. And I just just something clicked in. I got better. And I don't understand why she can't. So my empathy for that is not there. And that's why I think I need

Scott Benner 1:16:03
Well, I would think as well, you need to work through things, because it's going to stick in your head that your mom, it took so long for your mom life to fall apart that you're going to, I wouldn't want I wouldn't want you to think oh, I'm just 20 years away from what's happening to my mom right now. Yeah.

Kat 1:16:21
And she was the only stable parent we had. Right. So it's like really rocking our mind and my brother's world right now. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:16:29
no, I would imagine. I mean, the one thing you thought you had you were like, This is my stable point. And she's Yeah. And she's in rehab now to what what drugs for your mom?

Kat 1:16:40
Just alcohol. But it's she's more mental right now. Then, the alcohol.

Scott Benner 1:16:48
Is she does she detoxing is that where some of this is?

Kat 1:16:52
No. And she she didn't know she she already detoxed and ended up in the hospital because she she got sick from detoxing. So now after she's detox, she hasn't to our knowledge re relapse. So now it's just working on the mental side that caused her to increase her her consumption.

Scott Benner 1:17:15
I see. Wow, that's something all right. Cat, is there anything we haven't talked about that we should

Kat 1:17:20
have? Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed in you. Why would I miss? You didn't ask you about my family. And if they have any autoimmune diseases, you get

Scott Benner 1:17:31
in four minutes. Cat, you were pregnant. You threw me off. Okay. Are there any other autoimmune issues in your family?

Kat 1:17:40
Well, yes, there are. No, but I did want to bring up but my daughter does have eczema. And she is lactose intolerant. She's got exercise induced bronchoconstriction. So it's like asthma, but only with exercise. But she also has a TMJ thing, which, which was explained to me as autoimmune, which caused her to have this massive jaw reconstruction surgery at the same time that her TMJ is were getting fixed. So that was interesting to me. And I the only way that I came about that was from you had somebody else on your podcast that had that exact same surgery. And it made me ask my daughter's doctor about it, which in turn sent us to her having this massive surgery.

Scott Benner 1:18:32
That's my fault. You're saying? I'm sorry. Is that a good thing? It was like a thank you kinda okay. Then you're very welcome. That was

Kat 1:18:42
That was crazy. And then just recently, she has protein urea. And that was within the past week or so.

Scott Benner 1:18:50
In her so she her kidneys, numbers coming back different. Yeah,

Kat 1:18:55
she just has protein in her urine. So they put her on Lisinopril, which is for blood pressure, which kind of confused me. But it's also something that my birth son had when he was first diagnosed. And the endocrinologist said that she does see this contains a lot where it's not ongoing, it does dissipate, and they don't really know why. But it's happening. I have

Scott Benner 1:19:20
this on the internet, although TMJ is not an autoimmune disease, its symptoms can be the result of one. That's weird. Hold on a second. I can't just say that, but it just makes making me wonder.

Kat 1:19:37
I think I think the way that he explained it to me was some something in vitro like when when the when the child is developing. For some reason, people who have autoimmune diseases, this ligament does not form correctly, it's stretch it ends up being stretchy or too, too tight or what have you like it has something to do with the development not so much an autoimmune disease. That's how it was kind of explained to me

Scott Benner 1:20:05
like seconds talking here about how it can be like, secondarily a systematic impact. How about that? Yeah.

Kat 1:20:13
And then also migraine, she also has migraines, and they're just now finding out that that's probably linked as autoimmune. How old is she? She's 15.

Scott Benner 1:20:26
She's doing okay. Yeah. It's a lot.

Kat 1:20:31
She was having some some symptoms the other day, and I hadn't yet told her about the kidneys thing, because she had finals. And I just didn't want it to be like another thing that she had to deal with. But she was having some symptoms. And I told her, you know, that it could be from this. And I explained to her and she's like, Oh, great. You know, like, I'm lactose, my pancreas isn't working properly. And now my kidneys are failing. But she, she laughed about it. And that same day, I happened to tell her about her half brother that she didn't know about, because it would have it was his birthday. And he reached out to me, and it just kind of came full circle was like she's old enough to understand. You know how it happened. And I've just always felt this guilt of like, when I'm going to tell her how they're going to feel. And how did she take that? Amazing, she cried, but she cried because she was so happy that I trusted her and telling her about my life.

Scott Benner 1:21:37
That's a big thing to tell a kid. Yeah. Hey, have you had her thyroid check? Yes. You know what your TSH is?

Kat 1:21:46
It's, it's, it's in range. And I mean, in range, like under two your definition? Yeah, it's, it's, it's below one. Oh, it's like zero point something. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:21:58
was. I was reading a little bit about migraines and autoimmune and like, obviously psoriasis type one. Hashimotos graves, rheumatoid arthritis. Like, let's see, in all cases, the root of the problem is with the immune system, but because different antibodies are formed in each disease. Yeah. It's interesting. I didn't realize that about the migrants.

Kat 1:22:22
Yeah, but it's more than just found that out. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:22:25
it's more it's, I mean, this makes it sound like it's about the core, the comorbidities of autoimmune issues, but your daughter, I mean, the thing with the Listen, the thing with the kidney testing, like that can go up and down. Like they're gonna keep after that and check it right. Like, yeah, maybe she just got tested after like some high blood sugars or like, are they really think that she's having a, like a problem that's gonna be with her? No,

Kat 1:22:51
they don't think it's gonna stick with her. They put her on the low dose, like she explained to me that the sugar, you know, was the sugar molecules were being released into her kidney and they poked holes in her kidney and kind of like the, like you how you explain it. It's like, what is it? How do you explain it?

Scott Benner 1:23:13
Sort of just like it's the sugar molecules are too big now. It's, it's it's breaking through the the tissue and creating because they think it'll heal up.

Kat 1:23:23
They do that. So the medication is supposed to re Deuce the amount of pressure in her kidneys so that it stops releasing the protein. And

Scott Benner 1:23:33
then put her blood sugars are are where they're good, right? What's your one sees?

Kat 1:23:37
Yeah, so her a one seen? We just had it done. She was 6.6. And I was expecting it to be worse only because the school thing. But but like in the summer, it's normally around in like, 5.5.

Scott Benner 1:23:50
Okay. I gotcha. Well, I mean, you don't need me to tell you, but obviously, more stability, lower numbers. You know, yeah, you're gonna have better luck with those other things. Oh, wow. Yeah. All right. Well, gee, did I let you down in any other ways cat or is that it? Well, I don't know. You'd be in my kitchen. You don't I mean.

Kat 1:24:16
The only other thing I will say is that we had some issues with her insurance. And it took me months to get it figured out. But the way that the insurance wasn't aware that the way that they structured their plans as far as the Pharmacy Benefits affected insulin pumps, and so I it took me a long time, but I did, it brought to their attention that they they had an issue. And so they restructured their whole plan to incorporate the pharmacy benefits for insulin pumps and CGM so that it doesn't affect anybody else. Okay, so that was yeah, that was really cool, although it took freakin forever to do

Scott Benner 1:24:59
look you We're out there helping other people to do what I can. That's fantastic. Could you Wow. All right, cat, you were terrific. I really appreciate you coming on and doing this. Thank you. Yeah, this is wonderful. If you hold on a minute, I can tell you a couple of things you'll need to know and ask you of course, if you're comfortable with everything that we talked about and all that stuff, so hold on for me. It sounds good.

A huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice box this is where we get our diabetes supplies from you can as well use the link or call 888721151 for us the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. I'd like to thank cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and remind you that using my offer code juice box at checkout will save you 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com That's the sheets, the towels, the clothing, anything available on the website. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com