#310 She Is Having a Baby! Third Trimester

Part Three of a Four Part Series

Samantha is 24 years old, newly diagnosed with type 1 and pregnant. I'll be talking with Samantha after each trimester and after the baby arrives.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It's the best blood glucose meter My daughter has ever used. And when I say best, I mean, it's the most accurate one that we've ever used. It's the handiest blood glucose meter that we've ever used. It's got the greatest test trips that even allow a second chance sampling, and it has an app to help you make sense of all the data. All of you may not have a continuous glucose monitor, but you are testing and that data is important. Let Contour Next One help you with their app. Check them out Contour Next one.com, where you can click on the links in the show notes. Were the ones you'll find for this episode. At Juicebox podcast.com. After you get yourself a new meter, you're going to want to head over to touched by type one.org. Touched by type ones mission is to elevate awareness of Type One Diabetes to raise funds to find a cure and to inspire those with diabetes to thrive. I'll tell you more about the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and touched by type one a little later in the show Samantha's back. Samantha is really pregnant at this point. This is her third time on the show. She came on after her first trimester after her second trimester. And now as she's getting ready to deliver, find out how the pregnancy has been going. It turns out Samantha has one big fear. You'll find out what that is. programming note for those of you who listen with your children. We're going to speak about parent Neil massage at some point. We're going to read the steps for it. So it's clinical. But you know, we use all the words. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. or becoming bold with insulin. Hey, if you haven't heard it, Samantha's first two episodes. The first one is she is having a baby. first trimester. That's Episode 259. second trimester is at 285. And this of course, is Episode 310. of the Juicebox Podcast. Thank you for listening. Hey, I just got back from Atlanta. Thanks to everyone who came out. I love seeing that big full room. You guys were terrific.

Samantha 2:32
Morning.

Scott Benner 2:34
Hey, how are you?

Samantha 2:35
I'm good. How are you? I'm

yeah, I'm alright. Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:42
I perhaps overcommitted a little bit on the public speaking but I'm

Samantha 2:45
really tired.

Scott Benner 2:48
I got sick on the last flight. Oh, no. And I um, I had this situation where I was in Dallas. And it was a it was a quick turnaround on a long flight. And so I left my house at 9am Saturday morning, and returned home at 1am. Sunday night. So Monday morning. Yeah. And then I had to get up in the morning and go to like a long dentist appointment at 10am. And while I was sitting in the dentist's chair, I thought, My throat feels weird. Oh, gosh, I remembering the coughing kid on the plane. And I was like, huh, yeah, so I was like, I'll be okay. Because Sam, here's the thing you don't know about me. I don't get sick.

Samantha 3:36
My dad says that too, until he gets sick. No,

Scott Benner 3:39
no, it really like I will get sick. You know, don't get me wrong. Like it'll be 10 o'clock at night. And I'll be like, wow, I have a fever. I don't feel well. And I'll go to bed and wake up in the morning. I'm like, Oh, don't miss over like that quickly. So you know, I'm like, Okay, my throats a little scratchy. This won't get me the next day and the next day. And then like, the third day afterwards, I raised my voice. And then I lost my voice. Oh, and I was like, seven days away from sorry, the music's playing. I was like seven days away from having to go to Atlanta, which is now I leave for Atlanta in like three days. And I couldn't speak it.

Samantha 4:20
Oh, gosh. Well, you sound like you don't sound like Yeah.

Scott Benner 4:24
My body wasn't putting up with that. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 4:27
I'm by job to do.

Scott Benner 4:29
My jeans are a mess otherwise, but I don't get sick for very long. But I was in a bit of a panic. Because I felt Yeah, I thought oh my gosh, this whole Atlanta thing is it's built around my being there. Like there's four. There's four sessions that I'm in. There's not that many sessions. Yes, I was. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. So I was real quiet for a couple of days. I didn't talk much. My wife was like, This is amazing. Alright. But he's funny, you know? Anyway, you're super preggers now. How's it going?

Samantha 5:01
I am I'm, I'm good. I it's three weeks from today that he will be here if he doesn't decide to come earlier.

Scott Benner 5:10
So are you being induced?

Samantha 5:11
Yeah, they're inducing me on the 17th of March. Wow,

Scott Benner 5:15
is that a day isn't the 17th of March something?

Samantha 5:18
Yeah, but it's also the only day my doctor is working the entire day. So I have to St. Patrick's Day, but

Scott Benner 5:27
I was just thinking all the Catholics listening are like, yes, idiot. It's Saturday. That numbers ringing true in my head for some reason. Um, are you excited to have the baby on St. Patrick's Day if it happens? Or do you just don't care, it's just the day they had.

Samantha 5:41
Um, I mean, I'd rather not be on a holiday but. But as long as I mean, it's fine. I because it was really important that my doctor was the one that was there to be the one to deliver. And so like, they're having me come in right after midnight, on the 17th. And then, because she's like on call, and then she's gonna be in the office all day on the 17th. So that was the best chance to make sure she was there.

Scott Benner 6:13
Here's my thoughts. My brother was born a few days before Christmas. And he got screwed over every year because my parents would just go Christmas shopping. And they? No, no, they would just go to his Christmas pile and pull out like two or three things and a birthday present. So the kid was getting less stuff. He was totally getting hosed. And now I'm thinking, What if your child your son grows up to be a bit of a drinker? I don't think I don't think we want his birthday on St. Patrick's Day.

Samantha 6:39
Everyone says that he'll like it when he's older. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:42
How much? And how much were you like it? Yeah.

Samantha 6:46
So it's fine. It's

Scott Benner 6:48
so I'm super interested in how, because I realized when we started doing this, like, the first time we spoke, it was gonna be you know, there was a lot there, like you were getting, you're getting over a personal tragedy. You were pregnant again. You know, it was a lot of excitement. And like, and, you know, little consternation, maybe a little wary. And then the second one's always like, that's the cruise control part of the pregnancy, usually like that three to six month range, but I'm gonna curse and then bleep it out. It's real in the last three months, right? Yeah, what's going on?

Samantha 7:21
I mean, huge. That's definitely. And people keep saying how big I am. And I'm tired all the time. It's really hard to sleep, because especially in the last couple weeks, when he is like, big enough, in my stomach, where he's like running out of room. At night, he likes to stretch. So it's like his butt is pushing on one part of my stomach and his feet are pushing on the other part of my stomach. So it's very hard to sleep because his feet are on my right side. I usually try to sleep on my right side. But then it's like, he's poking me. And then I try to turn over. And he doesn't like that. Because like his whole body shifts, and it's a lot.

Scott Benner 8:13
It's hard to sleep with other people, whether they're outside of you, or inside of you, apparently,

Samantha 8:17
yeah.

Scott Benner 8:18
Are you able to move him? Or do you have to move yourself? Have you figured anything out? Or is there it's just kind of fruitless?

Samantha 8:25
At night, I think I'm just too tired to deal with it. During the day, if he's doing the same thing. I will like push on him until he moves. Gotcha. And

Scott Benner 8:35
go ahead. I'm sorry, I just I started to talk in my brain was like, You have nothing to say. So.

Samantha 8:41
Yeah, my husband gets worried when I push on my stomach a lot. But I mean, he's fine. Because sometimes you like you can't feel him at all. Like right now. He's not awake. So I can't feel him at all. But like, in a couple hours is when he usually wakes up. And he'll be like, poking insides and my stomach will look deformed because he's poking at two different sides of it.

Scott Benner 9:06
How do you find the commentary? Because I was thinking about it from my perspective. Sometimes you see a pregnant woman who's clearly like towards the end and yeah, it's nice like it's like oh my god you're so big kind of means like the baby's coming or you know, like something like that but that's if you hear at once what happens when every person who passes you is like oh my god, like a big year. Like, how does it end up feeling?

Samantha 9:29
I don't mind much the only thing that runs through my mind is like he has to get out of me. So Stop saying that. I'm like, so big, because that means he's so big.

Unknown Speaker 9:40
The exits not so big. Yeah.

Samantha 9:43
Like I'd rather him be like, Oh, yeah, you look like a normal size. So yeah, he'll be normal, but he's already he was measuring like, perfect normal size. Up until like two weeks ago. We had our final ultrasound where they measure him. And his, his. His like body is measuring a little bit bigger. So

Scott Benner 10:09
have you ever been behind a tractor trailer on the highway and you're coming up on an overpass? You think oh my god, it's not gonna make it's not gonna mean that it goes right under it. It's not a problem.

Samantha 10:17
Yeah, that's what everyone keeps telling me. He told me not to worry, but

Scott Benner 10:21
oh no, I would worry about it. I'm just saying that you won't see that you won't be behind the tractor trailer on the 17th. But your husband's gonna have that feeling he's gonna be like, this isn't gonna work. There's no look the baby came out that's really feel like it actually tell him unless he's got a strong feeling about it. He should really probably stamp on your half of the of the game. It's just,

Samantha 10:45
it's easier. Yeah, I don't know what he plans to do. Actually, we haven't talked about that. I always just assumed he was going to be next to me because I'll need him to be there for me. But I don't know. I wonder

Scott Benner 10:56
how that always goes. Because I felt like I was well, with my first son, with my first son, like, I have 17 sons with my first my son when my son was born, my wife was in labor for quite a time. And at one point, I was trying to do all the things that I thought I was supposed to doing, like comforting stuff. And it's she's like, why don't you go get something which I look back on now. And I feel like she was like, What if he just got out of here for a little while? realizing right? So back then I was younger, and a Dorito was nothing. So I had a sandwich and a couple Doritos or something come back up. She goes into labor later and I have diritto breath. My wife will retell this story with the same anger that she had. On the day of my son's birth. She'll tell that story right now. It just I must. I was like, it's gonna be okay. And she was like, Oh, my God, like, get back if he's going to screw something up. Or perhaps he won't. Excuse me. I'm excited to find out what happens like? Or if you get irritated with even the support at some point, if you find it necessary. Like it's a really interesting what happens in the moment? Are you thinking about epidural or what are you planning for? touched by type one has programs and services for those living with a daily reality of type one diabetes, they offer a supportive community with many interactive programs, and creative resources designed to empower one to thrive with type one. program programs like their annual conference, their awareness campaign bowl for a cure their dance program, dancing for diabetes, the big show every year. And they even have something they call a DI box that they send out to newly diagnosed people. That conference, by the way, touched by type one. It's on May 30. in Orlando, Florida, and I'm pretty certain I'm going to be speaking at it. I hope to see you there. Check that out. And everything else they do at touched by type one.org.

Samantha 12:55
As soon as they can give it to me or as soon as it starts hurting my eye yesterday, I was talking with the nurse. And she was saying like, if you don't feel anything and you're fine with the pain, then you can always put it off. And I was like No, I want it written on something that you give me the epidural right away. Like I don't want to feel.

Scott Benner 13:14
I don't know if you understand how pain relief works. But once you feel the pain, it's too late.

Samantha 13:19
Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to feel any pain. So I want it right away and keep it coming. It's 2020 lady.

Scott Benner 13:28
Yeah. No reason for mama to be like, Oh my gosh, why someone stabbing me?

Samantha 13:33
Yeah,

Scott Benner 13:34
I hear you. Oh my gosh, well, I'm okay. So so the people talking to you really just makes you think about the delivery more than anything. Like you're not like, don't feel like a body image problem. When they're saying like, you're pregnant, you're supposed to look like that.

Samantha 13:48
Well, I have a double chin now, which I'm not used to. And that's the only thing that I have an issue with. That's fair. But other I mean, other than that, that's a small thing. It's not like I dwell on it all the time. It's just like, it's there. And I know, I know, it's there.

Scott Benner 14:05
Not that I'm pregnant. But I have a double chin. And I daydream about having it altered. Oh, yeah, monthly, monthly. I look in the mirror. And I think How hard would it really be to make a small incision here, just whatever this is here. Just take it out and pull the skin the tiniest bit. I owe that to myself. afford it? But yeah, I feel like I'd be happier.

Samantha 14:26
Is that strange? No, no, I mean, I think I think it's something that everybody goes through your normal.

Scott Benner 14:33
I avoid taking photos sometimes because of it, which I don't have any other feeling about having myself photographed. Except for that.

Samantha 14:40
Yeah. See, that's when I noticed that the most in photos. And I'm like, Oh, wait, no more photo. me.

Scott Benner 14:48
Sure. Everyone's like this. I look in the mirror and I think I'm having I'm having a good day. And then I'll let someone take a picture. I look at the picture. I'm like, how is the person in the picture now? in the mirror like that's not I mean, and not that. It's like It's so far off.

Samantha 15:02
One of these things is lying. I don't know which one it is

Scott Benner 15:05
hundred percent. And I think it's I think it's anytime I look and think I don't look so bad today. Yeah, the light must be right or something. Oh my god. Okay, so we've got it, we've got a delivery date, but you're hoping that maybe he comes sooner.

Samantha 15:19
Um, I kind of well, not too much sooner. Because I mean, I'm working up until like, the 17th is a Tuesday, and I'm working until that Friday before

Scott Benner 15:30
so interesting. So it's a little bit of a money thing to like you. You need him to stay in.

Samantha 15:34
It's, um, it's a money thing. And it's like I otherwise I'd be sitting at home and what am I going to do at home? kind of thing.

Scott Benner 15:42
You're about to find out because you're having a baby.

Samantha 15:45
Yeah. And then the baby will be here. And I'll have things to do. But

Scott Benner 15:49
you certainly will. Oh, my gosh, I there was like a three year span where we'd watch the Academy Awards and just think I heard about this movie. Yeah. Yeah. I so okay. So you don't like staying a little bit hoping maybe? Do you prefer natural over being induced?

Samantha 16:12
No, I don't care. It doesn't. Yeah, as long as I don't, I don't want a C section. I really hope it doesn't turn into me having to get a C section just because I don't want my stomach to get cut open and have to deal with the longer recovery. But other than that, then, yeah, induced or natural whatever. Whatever happens.

Scott Benner 16:34
My son came out two weeks late.

Samantha 16:37
Yeah, usually what the first he they at least stay in their full term. So I'm thinking that he'll probably make it unless something happens where they're gonna like where they decide he needs to come early. Yeah,

Scott Benner 16:49
Arda needed a parachute on her on her due date. Like she was just like, coming out. Yes, we were we were our Kelly was going to be induced on Arden's due date. And the night before we're like packing up and getting ready. It's like 1230 and she's like, I think my water just broke. Oh, so we just made it that long, though. Should we made it to the hospital and Arden came out? A few five, six hours later, we actually were just at lunch the other day, where am I was chest I was chastised again by my wife for not knowing the times my kids are born. Oh, gosh. So my son's born in the early evening and Arden's born in the early morning, but I mean, the exact number. You would think I was really taken, taken to the woodshed at this restaurant for not knowing and then I start then I start guessing I'm like, I don't know. 716 then my brain doesn't remember. So they'll ask me 20 minutes later, and I'm like, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 17:45
Doesn't matter now.

Scott Benner 17:46
They're here. I'm taking a great jet. Look at how good she's doing.

Samantha 17:50
Like me, like if it really matters what time they're born, then we're only selling they're celebrating their birthday at that time. For a minute.

Scott Benner 17:58
I'll say this yesterday was my son's birthday. Yeah, I turned 20. And it was the first day his first birthday. We weren't with him on his birthday. Oh, more impactful than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, but we saw him the day before. He played baseball the day before we went to see him but it just kind of didn't feel the same, like not being there for some reason. So anyway, all that sadness, you have to look forward to

Samantha 18:22
awesome, yay.

Scott Benner 18:25
Turns out when you love somebody, it hurts almost as much as it is. It feels good. All right, so how how's your diabetes been? How's that been going?

Samantha 18:37
Right now, in the last couple of weeks, it's been a lot nicer to me than it has before I went through like maybe a month plan where I wanted to scream because my my insulin resistance kicked in. I was hoping that it wasn't I thought I was gonna get like, it's gonna be a miracle. And I wasn't going to deal with that. Because everyone had said that it kicked in earlier for them. And it wasn't happening for me. So I was like, maybe I skipped that part. But I didn't. I hit that and I was needing a lot more insulin and I was changing my Omni pod, like every day and a half. Because I was going through so much insulin. And I mean, I probably could have eaten less carbee things and made it last longer. But I didn't really change the way I was eating. So I was going through my Omni pods. Like every day

Scott Benner 19:29
we had that chin defeat.

Samantha 19:31
Yeah, exactly.

There now so you guys will take care of it.

Scott Benner 19:38
What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do give birth of that chin and then ignore it. That's not okay. I'd have to call Beifuss on you for that.

Samantha 19:48
So that was really I felt like I was changing it like every second which was crazy. And then like once that's I think the most frustrating part is that it doesn't like change, like, your settings don't change, and then they're good. It's like my settings were changing every day to something different than the day before. So it was really hard to like, like, I would figure it out. And then the next day, it would just be completely different. And then I'd have to figure it out again. And that that's the most frustrating part to me.

Scott Benner 20:23
So that's probably off the F Jenny at some point. But that's probably hormones, because you're describing Yeah, you're describing like, like doing like, like, I don't know, like a period situation or something like that, where like, one day, it's, it's going this way. And then you know, a couple hours later, like, Oh, I got it, and then all of a sudden, it heads in a completely different direction. And it's really tiring to keep up with,

Samantha 20:44
it is tiring, and it's totally the pregnancy hormones it has, like it probably has to do with something like he's growing or something, I don't know. But definitely, it's happening. And that was the most frustrating part. Not that I was using so much insulin just that like, I like it when, like if it changed at one day, and it was like that for even like, even the next day, I would have been happy. But it was changing every single day, every hour, like the morning of Wednesday was going to be different than the morning of Thursday. And it's just really exhausting.

Scott Benner 21:20
I feel that. So you're using 200 units of insulin about in 36 hours for that amount of carbs. How much insulin Do you think you should have been using? In that 36 hour time period?

Samantha 21:32
will usually my pod while I'll be able to make the the for what? Three days?

Scott Benner 21:41
Yeah, doubling your insulin? Almost?

Samantha 21:43
Yeah. And like, right, my carb ratio is already pretty like I've ever since I was diagnosed, my carb ratio has been kind of crazy. So I use a lot of insulin in general. So when I hit when I need more insulin, it's just like,

Scott Benner 22:01
a ton more. Did you say you did it? Or did was it hard to do sometimes, like what is your current ratio? Now? 12124

Samantha 22:06
is my current ratio when like pre pregnancy

Scott Benner 22:12
artists is aggressive at like one, one to like seven and a half or something like that.

Samantha 22:16
Yeah, I've always been one to four. It's never it wasn't. It's not like a pregnancy thing. It's like since I've been diagnosed, it's been wonderful. And it works for me. So obviously, it's right. It's just when I'm needing more insulin on some days, it's like, my half I, I use a lot of insulin.

Scott Benner 22:37
Is it Mom? I'm thinking for you. But is it scary to use that much?

Samantha 22:42
It was in the beginning. I especially during the pregnancy, I've gotten a lot more used to using more. And I don't. So I break up the Bolus in the pod just because I worry about like, I have problems with the pod leaking. Sometimes if I do too big of a bolus, and I don't know if it's because of where I have it on me, or it's probably something that I'm doing wrong. So I'll break it up. And that kind of fools my mind also into thinking that I'm not taking so much.

Scott Benner 23:16
Because you're looking at like 445 carbs. You're looking at like 11 units or more. Yeah, one for four. So you mean you could have had a 45 carb meal and been doing 25 units like Yeah,

Samantha 23:28
yeah.

Scott Benner 23:30
Jesus, that must have been that does. There are people right now have kids that are just like, Wait, what?

Samantha 23:36
Yeah, cuz Yeah, it's crazy. And that's why I always find it so interesting to hear other people's carb ratios and settings because mine are so aggressive that it's just like, it's so interesting.

Scott Benner 23:50
Arden's I would say that, to get 11 units into Arden would be for something pretty carb tastic in the 80. To 90, maybe it might be the 70 to 80 carb ratio. Oh, yeah. And, and that's, you know, she does not very frequently eat more than 6070 carbs at a setting. Unless, unless it ends up being something like crazy, like a waffle and it has, you know, syrup. Yeah. But but every now and so what I wanted to kind of talk to you about a little bit is that from all of the other people I've spoken to adult women who have had babies, as hard as this part is right here. As far as your management goes, the real time to be vigilant. And for somebody looking in from the outside to like maybe be a little more concerned is going to be the after part.

Samantha 24:43
Yeah. And that's and that's what my the nurse was talking to me about yesterday to she was just because everyone says like, she was saying that my my needs are going to go back to pre pregnancy pretty quick after he's out of me. Which right now in the last two weeks, I have been doing my pre pregnancy settings. So I haven't needed as much insulin as the month before, like previous, which has been nice because everything's been more steady. And I've been able to keep things in my range easier. But I hear breastfeeding drops you fast.

Scott Benner 25:22
Okay? I didn't, that's interesting that I didn't, that I didn't hear what I was thinking about more is you're going to be tired. And the baby is going to suddenly seem more important than anything else. And that there's a concern, people stop paying close enough attention to their blood sugars and stuff like that.

Samantha 25:41
Yeah. And I met, the nurse was telling me because she knows me, because she is a nurse that went through our previous pregnancy. And then I see her all the time now. So she knows that I'm a little bit crazy with my management. And so she was telling me like that I need to kind of relax a little bit, because she's worried about, I think she's more worried. I had a whole kind of argument with her, like a month ago, because she thought my agency was too low. And I was trying to explain to her that I didn't go low. So it's okay, that my agency was on the lower side, because I wasn't having any hypose. And she was very adamant that that like that it was just too low, because I think she's used to dealing with different kinds of people. And so I think she's just worried about me going low and being with a baby, and not fixing it, and then something bad happening, which I understand. But

Scott Benner 26:45
so I have to say something from a more theoretical standpoint, let's keep in mind a I don't have type one diabetes. MB, I'm not a lady. C, I could not give birth but D I did take care of two newborn children. Like my, you know, joking, joking, and no joking aside, like, somewhere in the mix in the middle of my wife's job is to go to work, make babies and hand me the babies. You don't I mean, so it's not that she's not involved. But, you know, the overnight stuff, you know, that kind of stuff is I know what it's like to raise a newborn is what I'm saying. Yeah. And so from everything I've seen doing this podcast and everything I've heard from hearing from people who've do well or struggle vice versa. I sort of think that in the in the vein of bumping and nudging, the bigger concern would be letting it get away from you. Yeah, right. Because like management, obviously takes a little focus. Mm hmm. But not managing takes way more time. It's going to make your blood sugar higher a person like us not going to feel well with their blood sugar higher. Yeah, that's gonna just create different problems. Like I don't understand the idea of trading a possible problem for definite problems.

Samantha 27:59
Yeah, and that's what my husband said yesterday, when I was telling her telling, sorry, telling him what she said when she was a hurt, because then you wouldn't have this baby inside of you, but go ahead. Yeah, because I told him, I told him like, she was like, telling me if I go over 200 then it's okay. Like, we'll correct and, and they'll come down. Oh, I'm sorry. I lost I lost the earphone. And that my husband, my husband's reaction was, well, if you go anywhere near 200 you're gonna feel like, like, you're not gonna Yeah, you're gonna feel terrible. So that's not gonna help you any. So we'll see. It's gonna be an adjustment. And I'll probably

I'll probably mess up somewhere along the way.

Scott Benner 28:44
But all I'm saying is that it's not that you're gonna mess up it's that you're adding a layer of responsibility concern and like love and affection that you at this moment and I don't mean this pejoratively. But I also try not to use too many big words that I know while I'm doing the podcast, but I don't mean I don't mean this poorly. But people are like, is this guy smarter than he says he is maybe me. Okay, and, but the concept here would be you don't know what it's like to have a baby. I know you, won't you do you right now. You know what it's like to be pregnant. That kid's gonna come out. It's gonna hit you so deep in your heart. It's going to change everything you care about in a split second. Yeah, you're going to value your own health less. Yeah, soon as it feels like valuing his health comes first. I sat in a doctor's office yesterday, because my back has been a bit of an issue and I have plantar fasciitis in one of my feet, right? And so it sucks because my ankle gets stiff. I can't run when I can't run. I can't work out when I can't work out my back gets that from you know this cycle. So I go to a place where they offer physical therapy and chiropractic stuff. Like this whole kind of like Wellness Center, and I'm in there going, like, just let me go to the chiropractor guy. And they're like, no, if you do two weeks of physical therapy to like, we'll get you back to where you need to be, and you keep going. And I'm like, I don't have time for that. And the guy's like, What do you mean, I'm like, I just, I don't have time. And he's a younger guy. You know, he's a married man, but he doesn't have kids. And I'm explaining to him like, you mean, you don't understand. Like, I have a job like this. This podcast is a job, it takes up a lot of time. It doesn't make a ton of money, but it makes enough money to help me send my son to college. And this is how much college costs every weekend. And this is what my mortgages, my bills, and you know, and I have to support my wife who's making the lion's share of the money that's taking care of all these things. And I have a daughter who has type one diabetes, she has hypothyroidism, she's been struggling with muscle stiffness and other problems. She just had a surgery to have this thing taken out. I'm like, you don't get it, man. I'm like, I'm not a person. Yeah, I'm a facilitator. And then at the end, if there's anything left, that's when I'm a person. And the guy's like, that's wrong. And I was like, No, I know. And I completely agreed with you on that, right? Until I had a kid. And, and so like, you know, theoretically, for all single people listening, you're right, I need to value myself and make more time and all that stuff. But when you're in the fight, you know, when people are shooting, that's not how it goes anymore. So I just want to caution you against that, because you have a different layer with diabetes.

Samantha 31:27
Yeah, I feel like

Scott Benner 31:28
if Arjun was about to have a baby, this is what I'd be saying to her, that I you should learn from me, and value yourself enough that you can find strike a better balance than what our monkey minds do once we have kids. Which is just like, like, Oh, I'm gonna just die sooner as long as he's okay. Doesn't matter.

Samantha 31:49
I know. And that's probably something I'll struggle with. Because I already see myself like when we babysit my, my nephew more than my niece, because my niece is older, but my nephew was four, like, I, I noticed that when I'm taking care of him, I kind of don't, because I'm caught, like the person that constantly checks my decks calm. And every five minutes, I know what my blood sugar is. Because I like, if it changed, for whatever reason, I need to know so I can stay on top of it. Because that's just who I am. Probably not the most healthy, but

Scott Benner 32:24
you're probably insane. But, um, yeah.

Samantha 32:26
And but I, but I understand that I'm insane. So it's okay. But when I'm watching him, I don't really pay attention to it as much, and then my alarm will go off. And I'm like, Okay, I need to do something

Scott Benner 32:42
where your alarm set.

Samantha 32:44
Right now I have my alarm set at 80 and 120. So it's, it's the alarm when I have time to do things. But also, if I'm at and running around with a four year old, then I couldn't be 60 in the next five minutes. Right? Right. So it's something that I'm going to have to figure out,

Scott Benner 33:05
yeah, it's gonna be different, right? You're, you're gonna have to, you've now known what it's like to be, have type one, and not be apparent. And now you're gonna find out what it's like to have type one and be a parent. And maybe, you know, maybe stability at a slightly higher number than you're accustomed to, maybe will be the way to get through the first number of months. And I'm not also saying, like, for the rest of your life, because that's the other thing is that if you think your diabetes has changed a lot over the last number of months, day to day, like, Wait, do you see what happens? Like, you know, there's a stretch of time, where the baby is just like, you know, a drinking pooping mission with that. But once that stops, it's just like, I don't know, it just feels like you're on a roller coaster constantly going down a hill, and then one day it flattens out, and they leave for college. You know, so the rest of it is going to change frequently. And yeah, and it's going to happen so quickly, you're not going to notice it happening sometimes. So, you know, if you can't be fluid and be a parent, you're going to be in trouble. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I I'm saying I think your management, like if you chose a slightly higher number to stay stable at and that benefited you not saying that even that's your answer. But if that's what you choose, it's not going to need to stay like that for long

Samantha 34:22
before. Yeah,

Scott Benner 34:23
life's gonna shift and you could probably shift along with it.

Samantha 34:26
Yeah, which is I'm sure. I mean, I'm thinking that because I've heard that your hormones are still wacky and will mess with your settings and your insulin needs. Like in the entire time you're breastfeeding up to just and then after you're done breastfeeding because your body still needs to adjust to being normal again. So I assume it's gonna be crazy for a while. A wild ride to say the very least, and I'll just have to do my best.

Scott Benner 34:57
And they remind us again with the with the Little Man is going to be called when he gets a name. Harrison. That's 100%. Correct? Yeah. After Harrison Ford in case any of you missed? Mm hmm. And by the way, if you missed the second episode, what are you doing the Sam's given her time Sam's came on? Right when you found out you're pregnant. Mm hmm. And then at the end of the trimesters, and now we're right, ready for the birth, you're going to come on once more. When I after the baby. And here's what I expect the last episode of viewers to go like Sam ready, I just, I don't know, I just say, Please, help me we eat the cat. We didn't mean to. We didn't even have a cat before the baby. We got a cat. I don't know where it came. A toxic shock. So we eat the cat and I don't know what to do. We're thinking of having another baby. Yeah, watch all this stupid stuff that happens to you now. Really, really excellent. Listen, having children, to me is is one of those things that you could put me on a deus and say, Scott, I want you to spend the next hour arguing against having children. And I could do it fervently and mean every word I'm saying and then move me to the other side of the stage and say, Scott, I don't want you to argue for having children. And I could rebut everything I was saying and I'd be right on both sides of the stage. So good luck.

Samantha 36:26
Yay.

Scott Benner 36:27
Really start looking back at what kind of a child you are. And your husband was because trust me there in is gonna lie. what's about to happen to you

Samantha 36:35
somewhere? Well, from all the stories, my husband was a little perfect Angel. So

Scott Benner 36:41
did his did his mom tell those stories? Yeah, you need someone else to tell those stories?

Samantha 36:46
Well, I believe it. He's very good now. So yeah, this whole thing it continues on through the generations.

Scott Benner 36:53
So if you told stories about your husband, they'd all be like, super positive about what a great guy is?

Samantha 36:57
Well, yeah, mostly, he's a great guy.

Scott Benner 37:01
Maybe you're gonna get lucky here. Some people's kids are nice. But

Samantha 37:06
I mean, I'm sure I'll think my kid is wonderful. So Oh, isn't that old? Man.

Scott Benner 37:12
I don't know if you'll think that or not like. So I'm wondering now, I'm super intrigued now to all the mothers that are listening. Like, I wish I could hear all their thoughts at the same time, because right now they're like, you know, the first one's nice, but the second one's kind of the very first thing you're going to notice when you go to Contour Next one.com is a yellow button at the top that says get a free Contour Next One meter, just give it a little click. When you do that, you're one step closer to the most accurate, Handy blood glucose meter, my daughter has ever had. To get started today with the Contour Next One smart meter and their contour diabetes app, you're going to discover that smart blood glucose testing with the Contour Next One meter. And the contour diabetes app is just what you've been looking for. get to that link, scroll down, fill out a little bit of information, find out if you're eligible for that free meter. And get started today. If you don't want to do that, you can just ask your endocrinologist at your next appointment say, Hey, come on. I've been using this meter right here forever. I think things been on the market for you know, a million years. I don't know how accurate This is. Is this the latest greatest technology and blood glucose metering? I don't believe so. But I'm hearing that the Contour Next One might be worth a looky loo. Your endocrinologist will probably say, I don't know why you're saying looky loo, it's not 1924 then they'll write you a prescription and get the thing yourself. That's it, get some test trips, a new meter, you're on your way. whole new life with accurate tests. Don't forget to be hit that blood drop once and you don't get a you know the beep with the Contour. Next One, you can go back in and go again without affecting the accuracy. So you don't have to waste that test trip if you don't get it right the first time. It's got a great little light for doing it in the dark. And this little neat system with like colors and arrows that shows you if your blood sugars in the range that you've preset, you got to check it out. Contour Next one.com I'm super intrigued now to all the mothers that are listening. Like I wish I could hear all their thoughts at the same time because right now they're like, you know, the first one's nice, but the second one's kind of then like it just it really does. It's interesting, like my wife and I were talking last night my son had a uh, his very first start at college. And they his team was getting like, they they were really putting it like getting it put to them. They had maybe two hits the whole game, but my son was putting the ball in play like hitting the ball hard. He just kept hitting it at people and even just hitting the ball seemed like an accomplishment in that moment but it was certainly not the excite exciting debut. I think he was hoping for in his second season you know, like nobody plays in there. freshman season if you get on the field in the first game in the sophomore year, that's pretty exciting for you. Yeah. And and so there's a doubleheader. And after the first game, he comes over, we brought some food for him. And he comes over. And as he's walking towards us, my wife and I, like, how's this gonna go? Like, is he happy that he's like, like, that he reached this goal, is he going to be upset at how the last, you know, hour and a half didn't go is probably the way he diagrammed in his head, like, where's this going to be? And we knew for certain that the year before he would have walked up to us, and been disappointed and probably aggravated to some degree. But instead, a completely different person walked up to us. And we had to admit, when he walked away that as good of a kid as he was prior, he had been short a lot in the last year, in some ways that we had not seen because he's been away at school, sometimes. His reactions were just measured and thoughtful. And we were like, Oh, my gosh, and he walks away. My wife's like, wow, that one really worked out. And sitting right there, and she's like, yo, you're doing fine, too, just like, we only time will tell with you. We're just like, he's starting to look like he's not gonna ever rob a bank. Like, maybe we can sit back a little bit pretty good about what's happened here, you know. But, you know, but last night, going to bed, I still felt like, I can't believe we didn't, you know, we didn't see him on his birthday, more than just like a FaceTime, you know, for a few minutes. And yeah, a couple of text messages. So I definitely don't want to be trite. But I have not found any better way to say it really does go fast. You know, just to try to enjoy it. And if you can, big picture once in a while, it helps on the really slow days that are mind numbing. There are going to be a lot of days, where you just start questioning your existence like why am I here? Even one of my kids no bigger doesn't look any different than yesterday.

Samantha 41:59
All he's doing is sitting there crying.

Scott Benner 42:01
If he was an egg, at least I could just turn a lamp on him and go out. But you know, it's illegal to leave them by themselves. In the 50s, you could put a kid in a crib and go outside. No one cared. Nowadays that'll get you locked right up. So I just I'm so what do you expect? You have expectations now? Are you clear minded about what you think is about to happen?

Samantha 42:30
Uh, like when he actually here for I think

Scott Benner 42:34
it's gonna be like to be a mom. Like, I want to match this up against what he's

Samantha 42:38
saying? Um,

I don't know. I guess I don't really have. I'm just more worried about him like getting out. Get like escaping getting getting out of me, like no sleep

Scott Benner 42:57
and have that kid wander off someday?

Samantha 42:59
No, I'm like, I haven't got farther than that. I'm like, I worry. I worry that he's not going to be able to fit into his clothes, because he's going to be I think I'm making him a lot bigger in my head than he's going to be at least I hope so.

Scott Benner 43:13
Did they give you an estimate of how big they think he's gonna be?

Samantha 43:15
Well, last, and was that it was either two weeks ago or it was last Monday. Whenever the holiday was. It was last Monday. He was measuring at six pounds 10 ounces, which is bigger, or than he should have been measuring. For my comfort.

Scott Benner 43:38
zone. Okay, so. So how tall are you? I'm five nine. I see you're taller person. Yeah. How are your hips? Are they narrow?

Samantha 43:47
I see my my ob told me that I'm tall and I have wide hips. So I should be okay. But that doesn't assure me any.

Scott Benner 43:56
Absolutely shouldn't listen. But my wife is five nine. And my son was 711 when he was born 710 maybe. So is your kid gonna pack on another pound in the next three weeks?

Samantha 44:08
Oh, that's what I'm worried about. If he's if he's not if he's eight is like the maximum okay with but I'm worried he's gonna be over.

Scott Benner 44:17
Did you let me do some math here? three more weeks. Baba. I bet she's seven, four maybe? Yeah, it'd be like that. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, I have Keep in mind, no medical training whatsoever. Go with it. But I'm just trying to make you feel better. I don't think I don't think that's not doable.

Samantha 44:40
Of course, it's not doable. But

Scott Benner 44:44
can I ask a delicate question, and there's gonna be a lot of bleeps in this. So feel free to answer but prior to this. It wasn't like super tiny or something, was it? Yeah.

Samantha 44:55
No, but I have to push and pull baby out of me. Basically.

Scott Benner 44:59
comes out on its own. It really your body just rejects it at the end. It's just like, Yeah, get out.

Samantha 45:05
And I'm afraid of like the leg ripping. Oh, you might be worried about that. Yeah, I'm worried about I think I'm more worried because I'm hoping I'm not going to feel anything during the delivery. I think I'm more worried about how much pain I'm going to be in afterwards.

Scott Benner 45:24
Yeah, I listen, if you have a nice natural birth, that should be you should have too much trouble. Are you doing any prep stuff? Let's talk like adults for a second. any of that, like oil massaging around your exit?

Samantha 45:37
Are you know, I've never heard of that.

Scott Benner 45:40
A whole bunch trying to keep things like loose. No, here's

Samantha 45:43
everything is uncomfortable. Listen, you want your cake and

Unknown Speaker 45:47
eat it too. Like

Scott Benner 45:50
have to have some uncomfortable sex with your husband to get this together? I think or by the way, you don't actually have to do it with him. You know what I'm saying? But if he's become a problem, but But no, I mean, are those things wives tales?

Samantha 46:06
I will I've never heard that that help. I've never heard the oil thing ever, ever. And then I've never heard I've heard that. Having sex couldn't do like couldn't make you have the baby. But I haven't heard that it loosens you up to get ready for the baby to come out. Hold on.

Scott Benner 46:27
I've googled. Okay, there are six things you can do now for a better delivery on your labor day. Find the right caregiver when this isn't eat well, okay. This is

Unknown Speaker 46:38
we're talking about how do we take breathe

Scott Benner 46:43
and make it more accepting of what's about to happen. Right? This is not let me be. Let me be more clear about my googling make childbirth

Unknown Speaker 46:55
easier.

Scott Benner 46:57
On my vagina. There we go. vaginal stretching, how to stretch your vagina before giving birth? You got to Google more

Samantha 47:06
like cables or whatever they're called. Is that isn't it? Oh, oh. Learn To Play shouldn't do that.

Scott Benner 47:16
Lengthen pelvic muscles and soft tissue practice getting into labor positions, practice relaxation techniques, prevent or treat urinary incontinence. Oh my god. You're not incontinent, or you

Samantha 47:25
know?

Scott Benner 47:26
Yeah. How's your back pain? Anything?

Samantha 47:29
Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:31
The sex hurt or did you just give up on trying? Don't say your husband's lovely. Let's not say that he hasn't gotten laid in six months. Okay. for him. Oh, here's my thing. perinatal massage perineal. Massage lengthens and softens the tissue of the peronism. You can start this at 35 weeks, how far you and 36 weeks. Thank God I'm here. This massage technique for 10 minutes once a day, take a warm bath or hold a warm compress on the its premium right? I thought yeah, premium per diem? I don't know I don't have one. Or do I? Just the taint? What are we talking about here for 10 minutes to help you relax. I'm gonna send you this link. Sit or lean back in a comfortable position. Put a water soluble lubricant on your thumb. And apparently, um, place your thumbs one to one and a half inches inside your vagina. Press downward toward the rectum and to the sides until you feel a slight burning, stinging or tingling sensation. Hold the pressure for two minutes until the area becomes numb. Oh, this sounds fun. pretty painful. Breathe deeply. Listen,

Samantha 48:42
I want to put myself in more pain that I'm just gonna still feel pain later on. This baby's

Scott Benner 48:47
gonna fire out if you just loosen these muscles up deeply and concentrate on relaxing the muscles as you continue to press down with your thumb slowly and gently massage back and forth over the sides of your vagina. If you would have done this, you wouldn't have gotten it would have been like, you know what Never mind. And massage thing was enough. Thanks. Relax, repeat this process once after you give birth, you may experience new physical problems that prevent you from fully enjoying life with Wait. Hold on a second. skip that.

Samantha 49:16
Don't send me this link.

Scott Benner 49:19
But just talks about getting your body back into shape afterwards that did a physical therapist might help but this massage thing I'm telling you this is all you have. You gotta gotta like you know, when you get like a new baseball

Samantha 49:33
well, then my husband will be good at it. I'll have him do it.

Scott Benner 49:36
Tell him to get some oil out and beat that thing into shape. So you can play with it on the 17th I think that's worth talking about.

Unknown Speaker 49:43
Oh my god, I'm so happy. I don't have

Unknown Speaker 49:47
realized that as I was reading.

Samantha 49:48
I keep telling myself that people have like another child after the first so it can't be that bad. Because why would they do it again. I

Scott Benner 49:57
think some women are trying to keep wealthy husbands I think that's

Samantha 50:04
because women that are having babies because they want, because

Scott Benner 50:07
they love their babies. Oh, I do. I mean, I think it probably just feeds that dopamine part of your brain,

Samantha 50:14
right? If it was so terrible, then there would just be only children everywhere. Yeah, right is what I keep telling myself hundred percent

Scott Benner 50:24
and don't listen, we're joking around a lot here. Of course people have babies all the time and it goes all the time. But yeah, I listen, I think if you don't need what is that word when there's when they when they cut to make the space?

Samantha 50:42
Oh, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what the

Scott Benner 50:45
word is such a silly word to I'll think of it in a second. It starts with the P. program note, I realized it was a PC Atomy as soon as I said starts with the P but then when I remembered what it was it felt mean to say in front of Samantha, I'll figure it out. That doesn't happen. And if you don't prove yourself when you're pushing, I think you're doing really well.

Samantha 51:04
Yeah, I'm fine with that. That's not gonna matter to me.

Scott Benner 51:07
I like your line. You're like, Listen, if someone's got to clean that up. that's their problem, not mine. I'm paying to get in.

Samantha 51:15
Yeah, I'm paying plenty they can clean up my poop.

Unknown Speaker 51:25
Yeah, exactly. All right, Jesus. I think

Unknown Speaker 51:35
we'll end on

Scott Benner 51:36
early today, but I feel like we've covered a lot. I didn't realize we'd be reading about the massage technique. I just came up like, because I remember hearing it somewhere. I don't know if my wife did it or not. I don't think she did. If she did, she was like, I don't need him for this. But I mean, I just it makes sense, right? Like, if you were gonna go for a run, you'd stretch your legs.

Samantha 51:56
Right? I mean, yeah, I logical.

Scott Benner 52:00
I will tell you this. I don't think that your concerns are unfounded, or unreasonable. My daughter is 15. She has like, zero. You know, besides thinking some boys are cute and something like that. She's not thinking about having a baby. But anytime the subject comes up, she immediately says, I'm adopting kids, because I don't want anything to have to come out of my vagina. Like, you might change your mind. She goes, I really don't think I'm going to just like okay, yeah, so um, yeah, that's it, you're gonna be great.

Samantha 52:35
Yeah, I can do it.

Scott Benner 52:37
Hey, listen, you're gonna do it.

Samantha 52:40
I have to do it. Now. It's way too late.

Scott Benner 52:43
backing out now would be unprecedented in the history of the world. I think you're having a baby. Let's talk a little bit before we go about. I mean, I feel like I don't feel like we can Jinx the last three weeks of your pregnancy? Do you spend much time thinking about your first pregnancy? Um, or does it just make you feel like I'm

Samantha 53:05
me? Um,

I don't think I spend time thinking, well, it's, it's a little bit. This is like I was pregnant in January, February, March, April, May last time. So it's kind of that time zone. And it's getting to April's when my diagnosis anniversary is. So it kind of brings up the thoughts. But I don't think we're really thinking about the actual pregnancy rather than just like her. The fact that like, we were supposed to have another baby before this. And she's not here. And like, like, we just kind of think, I don't know, it's hard. It's hard to not like, compare that technically, this could have been like our second child, you know?

Scott Benner 54:01
Yeah, no, I think I mean, I don't understand from Kant, you know, from context. I obviously, it hasn't happened to us, but I feel like I understand what you're saying. Like, even though your daughter was never born. It doesn't feel like she didn't exist.

Samantha 54:16
Yeah, yeah. She she's still very much like a person to us. And we say that she's up watching over us and like, she'll be watching over Harrison, and she's very, she's very much a part of our family, even though she never like took a breath.

Scott Benner 54:36
Does she have a name in your mind?

Samantha 54:38
Yeah, her name was gonna be Elena.

And then I mean, we even have, like, I don't know if I had said it in the first episode, but the doctors made her footprints for us. So we have her footprints, like framed in our bedroom, and we have her ashes. So like, she Is the person to us?

Scott Benner 55:02
No, I agree with you. I, I don't think that's Um, I don't think that's something anybody could argue with, you know, just the idea that that you were going to have a baby. And just because she didn't make it all the way to the world doesn't make any of that less. Anything, you know?

Unknown Speaker 55:17
Wow.

Scott Benner 55:18
You guys are doing great. You really are you you've rebounded from, you know, a tragedy and turned it right around. It must have been incredibly scary to try to have a baby again. And then to have diabetes on top of all that is a stressful a lot. Yeah, but you're doing it.

Samantha 55:36
Yeah. Yeah, that is, I am doing

Scott Benner 55:41
the truth. Right. Like, yeah, you hear people say things like, you know, just try it. You'll say, you know, that kind of stuff like anything's accomplishable. And I have found that my life just,

Samantha 55:52
yeah, completely doable. I want people to know that just because you have Type One Diabetes doesn't mean you can't get pregnant. I've had people tell me that their doctors have told them because you have type one, like that sole reason alone, you cannot get pregnant. And I think that's terrible have a doctor to even say, because if my doctors had said that to me, then we wouldn't be here. And both my doctors were very supportive. And they told me as long as I manage it, too.

The point like where I need to do management.

pregnancy is completely doable without complications.

Scott Benner 56:40
Yeah, I no lie. I get a lot of emails from people who say that though, they can now have kids because they listen to the podcast, they got their agency down and their blood sugar's are more stable and stuff like that. But almost every one of their notes includes some statement about they didn't think they could ever have a baby or or a doctor told them they couldn't. Listen, I don't know when this will come out in the timeline. But since I pretty comfortable yours will be out soon. I've been helping my daughter's friend, Jani. So Arda met a girl online years ago, and they've been friends, you know, for a while. They've never met in person. But Jani and Arden are the same age and Johnny's had diabetes for six years. And so there was times where Arden would come to me and say, I think Jani needs help. Like her blood sugars are high a lot and Arden was concerned for but it didn't feel like anybody's business. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so one time I just said to her, like, Look, if you want to, because they were comparing their blood sugars. And so you know, I said, if you want to tell her, I can help her just, you know, have her ask, but I wasn't going to push it on her. I wanted somebody to ask me. I don't know why that seemed to make a difference to me. But eventually, it came up and we start talking about it right before Christmas. And about four weeks ago, she and I spoke for the first time and I've been recording with her like 10 or 15 minutes at a time a couple of times. Oh, yeah. So she went yesterday. Yesterday. Yeah, she went to her. She got her a one c done yesterday. Now this is not a full a one c after she and I've spoken it's four weeks after she and I spoke and her a one c went down two points. Oh wow. From the last time and so to tell somebody you know your you know your blood sugar's don't support having a baby. That might be true in the moment. But yeah, the rest of the statement, you know, like, here's what we could do to get your blood sugar into a place where you could have a baby, and by the way, enjoy your life more and be healthier.

Samantha 58:38
I think that's the most important thing from like, hopefully people are getting from listening to at least at the very least, like my episodes, like it's completely doable without any complications. And to have I mean, despite having to deal with the diabetes to have a completely normal pregnancy.

Scott Benner 58:58
I'm super excited for you. This is really great. I feel like I'm having a baby a little bit.

Samantha 59:03
I'll send you a big shirt in three weeks.

Yeah, hundred percent. That's what my endo, I'm not going to see my endo again until the end of April. He said that I just need to make sure I text him a picture of a baby.

Scott Benner 59:16
That's so nice. It's cool to have so many different people like thinking of you and supporting you and everything that must be helpful as well.

Samantha 59:22
Yes, definitely. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:24
The only difference between you having this baby and me being involved is that on the 18th, I'm not going to be tired.

Samantha 59:31
Well, hopefully, the 18th all already have the child by them.

Scott Benner 59:34
Well, let me give your husband a tiny bit of advice here. That night you have the baby and they get you up to move around the room and there's not a lot of space so he sits down on your bed for a little while. Don't fall asleep. Oh, yeah. Because I might have done that after hours after hours. Like I got in the bed notice like, and she's the other day she's like, I can't believe you fell asleep again. 15 years ago. And I said I was tired. I just had a baby. And I said, Kelly, I know I've said this a million times, right? But just because you're tired doesn't mean I'm not

Samantha 1:00:16
feeling so you understand we were talking heard your struggle doesn't

Unknown Speaker 1:00:19
negate mine.

Scott Benner 1:00:23
I don't think she accepted that, by the way as a viable excuse. But anyway, I was sleepy. And it turns out, I used to have really low iron, so this isn't my fault at all. Oh, there you go. Hey, I'm good. I've valuable medical reasoning. I can get a doctor's note for that. I should. Each time I go in for an iron infusion. I'm gonna get the doctor to write a note. Back on the date Arden was born excusing me for fall asleep.

Samantha 1:00:48
It's gonna matter much but

Scott Benner 1:00:52
trying to when we're in a point system here. We've been married a long time. I'm way behind. Okay. All right. So, I hope the I hope everything goes great. I'm sure that baby's gonna be fine. There's no gonna be any problems. Fingers crossed. Yeah, yeah. Hundred percent. I am sending you this stuff for the massage. I'll take. I'm sending out I'll send you the text. So okay. And if you do it, you have to tell me.

Samantha 1:01:18
Yeah, it'll be it hurt a lot. And it's still frickin hurt when I gave birth.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:24
All right, that seems fair.

Scott Benner 1:01:27
Alright, happy birthday. I will talk to you soon.

Samantha 1:01:30
Okay, thank you. Bye.

Scott Benner 1:01:34
A huge thank you to Samantha for coming on again to describe her journey through pregnancy. She's going to be back one more time. A few months after she has Harrison to tell us what it's like to be a new parent with Type One Diabetes. huge thank you to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, please go to Contour Next one.com to find out more. And of course, touched by type one. When you go to touched by type one.org, you're going to see an organization helping children and people living with Type One Diabetes, you're going to find an organization that's helping to raise money for a cure, and so much more touched by type one.org. Give them a look. Once again, I want to thank the Georgia chapter of the jdrf for having me down to Atlanta this past weekend. I had a terrific time. I met a ton of wonderful people. Want to wish you all success if you're listening for the first time here. Hello. Coming over the next couple of episodes. a two part conversation about looping coming soon. Maybe it'll be Friday. Maybe it'll be next week. I haven't decided yet, but I'm getting close to deciding. Anyway, it's gonna be really soon. Dan, don't

do you think I have a future in this ASMR thing? I could just make like relaxing sounds into a microphone. That would be so much easier than interviewing people. I don't even know how to begin to do that. What would I do? What I was I don't think I can whisper Oh, you're listening to the Juicebox Podcast. Today, I definitely can't whisper it makes me like shorter breath whispering I need to like fill my lungs and go you don't mean like that? Yeah, I don't know. I couldn't do that. Alright, I fallen down a rabbit hole here. A s m R stands for Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. The Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response sometimes auto Sensory Meridian Response is a tingling sensation. That typically be excuse me that typically begins on the scalp and moves down the back of the neck and upper spine. A pleasant form of para thesis paraesthesia paraesthesia. I think it has been compared with auditory tactile synesthesia, and may overlap with Phrygian well, hell now I don't know what Phrygian means. Give me a second Phrygian is that a made up word? A sudden strong feeling of excitement or fear a thrill that just comes from like what what's an example of ASMR then? Alright, people give me a second set of video here. Listening to a video from Mashable. Get to it, man. What does it mean? Common triggers. Here we go. whispering crisp sounds like tapping and crinkling Hold on.

Wait, you have to roleplay and pretend you're doing it like I'm not doing that. Just like a whole business. Not everybody gets the sensations from the trigger sounds, the video says, well, it's definitely not doing anything for me. So I thought I could make a little extra money on the side here.

By the way, if you're still listening, examine your life. I don't even mean because the SMR I just mean like, I mean, the the part about the diabetes has been over for a while now. Alright, let's keep going.

Here's an idea. We try this.

Now it's not working. It's not as easy as it looks.

Okay, I'm done.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Pandora - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

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#309 Omnipod and Dexcom Updates

With the CCOs of both companies

Omnipod CCO Bret Christensen and Dexcom CCO Rick Doubleday are both on this jam-packed type 1 diabetes technology episode. Let's talk about automated insulin delivery!

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everybody, welcome to Episode 309 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode is a little different than usual. It's two different interviews. The first interview is with Dexcom, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer, Rick Doubleday. Rick and I are going to be talking about things that are going on at Dexcom. And interoperability interruptible, inter Robin to interoperate. Oh, it's a word that you're probably hearing a lot around diabetes lately, but maybe aren't 100% sure how to say? Let's sound it out together in turn app for a bill, ed d. Hmm, that wasn't helpful either. Hold on one second. Okay, hold on, I'm gonna play it through my headphones into the microphone. Let's see if this works.

Unknown Speaker 0:51
interoperability

Scott Benner 0:54
the ability of a computer system or software to exchange and make use of information. So why do we care about that around diabetes, because the information coming from the dexcom continuous glucose monitor is going to help pump companies to build their own algorithms, right, like closed loop systems that will make insulin decisions for you. So we're going to talk about that from Dexcom perspective. And then go right into a conversation with Brett Christianson, the chief Commercial Officer of insulin. Insulin, of course, is the company that makes the Omni pod and the forthcoming horizon automatic its own delivery system, which is going to be the Dexcom g six, or the Dexcom g seven when it comes out. And the pods algorithm and their pump making insulin decisions for you. This is all very exciting. Here's the one thing you need to know. Rick and I are gonna go first, then it's going to be Brett and I. Brett was calling from Spain. So he's on a cell phone. There's a bit of a gap, right? Like I'd be like, hey, Brett, you're Brett, right? And then he'd say, pause. Yes, I'm Brett. There's a little pause. It's also a little cell phone Ian noisy. It's not perfect. I don't love that. It's not perfect, but the information is great. So I hope you can hope you can just you know, listen a little extra hard, you'll be alright, you can figure it out. It might not surprise you to know that this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod Dexcom and touched by type one.org. So you can go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box to find out more about the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. You can go to my omnipod.com forward slash juice box to get a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod sent to you right now.

Bret Christensen 2:41
And

Scott Benner 2:42
touched by type one, of course, is dancing for diabetes. They've just changed their name, expanded themselves a bit. They're doing all the great stuff they were doing before plus a lot more touched by type one.org. I'm going to get started with Rick from Dexcom right now. But first, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. or becoming bold with insulin. Here comes Rick. Rick Scott. Hey, how are you? Can you hear me? Okay?

Rick Doubleday 3:21
I'm good. How are you?

Scott Benner 3:23
Good. Thanks.

Rick Doubleday 3:25
Hey, yeah, Scott, can I ask you a quick question hundred

Unknown Speaker 3:28
percent.

Unknown Speaker 3:30
Did you?

Rick Doubleday 3:32
Did you send a story? A letter to Dexcom once upon a time right after Arden was diagnosed about what a difference seven plus had made and include her picture.

Scott Benner 3:44
Maybe? I'm not certain

Rick Doubleday 3:46
I am. I am 99% sure that you did. Because I used Arden's picture in a sale to our national sales team. It was one of the first patient stories I had. I had received I started here in 2009. Right, No, I know.

And,

and it was such an amazing story.

Scott Benner 4:10
I'm thrilled. I have to dig through my emails and find out. You know, that sounds possible, you know, prior to I don't know how to say this, I guess but prior to companies understanding the impact, I guess that users had on stuff and it probably wasn't you didn't understand it, probably you're just a tiny company with, you know, right. Not that much ability to delve into stuff like that. I I pretty immediately realized how valuable the data was. And we struggled greatly. I tell people this on the podcast all the time, but we struggled greatly with my daughters, they wouldn't see her stability, you know, shooting highs and crashing lows. For a number of yep for a number a number of years honestly. And then a woman My name Lorraine, who was probably another person who was kind of out in front of being vocal about diabetes at a time when not a lot of people were online. She just asked me if I, you know, had ever tried this Dexcom thing. And I said, my nurse practitioner just mentioned it to us. So it's funny when I tell the story, I tell it through my nurse practitioner, but the nurse practitioner brought it up. We were thinking about it. Lorraine brought it up, where I asked out loud, and she's the one that comforted me and said, that's a good idea. And now I'm talking to you now Arden has been eating lunch for the last half an hour blood sugar 77 like, you know, that's awesome. Yeah. Very onesies cemented in the fives. She does not have frequent or, or dangerous lows. A spike to us is 150. You know, the data is it's insane. It's It's just what it does. Yeah, I really appreciate it. I can't believe you've been there that long either.

Rick Doubleday 6:02
Right? Yeah. It'll be 11 years in June, right? Oh, that's been a lot of change.

Scott Benner 6:09
Yeah. Well, I bet Actually, I'm sorry. Just Just to let you know, I started recording before we talk. That's all okay. Is that all right?

Bret Christensen 6:17
Absolutely. Cool.

Excellent.

Rick Doubleday 6:20
How old is our now.

Scott Benner 6:22
So she's 15 at the moment, and she'll be 16. In July, she was diagnosed when she was two, it was literally a couple of weeks after her second birthday. So in August of 20, of 2006.

Rick Doubleday 6:37
Wow, that's really making me feel

Scott Benner 6:43
dexcom helps you not to, to feel quite as old when you're thinking it through the timeline of the technology. Because you guys have just leapt forward so many times, in a way that was prior unheard of in the diabetes space. You know, I don't think people will ever appreciate that. At some point. The Dexcom receiver did not have the ability to share blood sugars to the internet. So you guys built this little cradle so that at least overnight? Yeah, you could slide out your receiver into the cradle. And the cradle would you know, help people see blood sugar, so at least your kid was down the hall in another room in your bed, you could have these numbers. And I can't imagine how much effort went into making those cradles and putting them into the world? And I don't think it was, was it not even a month before the receiver that had Cher built into it was okayed by the FDA.

Rick Doubleday 7:36
It was a little longer than a month. But yes, we had a warehouse with a quite a few of the share cradle sitting in them after we launched the receiver.

Scott Benner 7:48
I joked with Kevin one time that I imagine that those cradles are business card holders on everyone's desks now.

Rick Doubleday 7:55
That's right. We often thought about maybe that would be a good use. It's funny that you say that Scott, I still I still have you know, those rubber bands that people wear around their wrist. Mine is share direct that was the codename internally for the receiver that allowed people to share their data off the phone. And I keep it there because I thought I believe it was such an immense step forward. And it was driven based upon feedback from customers what they were looking for. And this was, you know, our attempt to provide even greater a greater experience for for the users.

Scott Benner 8:37
Yeah, I found the most impressive part of that story business wise to me was, you know, I don't know what they all cost you to make them and develop them. But as soon as there was a better option, you guys have ended it walked away like he didn't foist it on us. Like, alright, well use these up, we already paid for them, you know, you were just like, okay, we we move faster than we thought we were going to with the FDA. So let's get to the better thing. And

Rick Doubleday 9:01
yeah, no, that is, that is absolutely the dexcom way, you know, it's consistent with our sensor technology, as we look at, you know, what it takes us to stand up all the manufacturing capability for G six, we're gonna have to do the same amount of work, because g seven is different. And we're gonna have to go through all of that, but it's the right thing to do.

For the users, it just is,

Scott Benner 9:29
is that what's going to, I mean, I think of you guys, as the leader in this space based on just the quality of the of the data that the product brings us back and the consistency, the consistency that it provides. And honestly, if I'm if I'm being 100% honest, just feedback that I see online. That is, I think, significantly better for Dexcom products, and it ends up being for the Libra stuff. But as Libra moves forward, and I'm assuming they're gonna change Trying to make their stuff better? How does Dexcom stay in that spot that they're in? Like, how do you hold the lead? I guess?

Rick Doubleday 10:07
Yeah, I think it's a I think it's a great question. I think it's, it's everything, Scott from how do we continue to make the technology better. So faster, warm up times longer length of time, of usage, robust, you know, 288 results, for the entire length of the sensor, all of those things we know are extremely important to the user. But it's also going to be a customer experience play. And, you know, similar to what we did with with share, follow, we understood that that was a really important feature, then we continue to add to that we went from five followers to 10 followers, we've totally re skinned it. We're actually in the process right now, of implementing the ability to message in the follow app, we had the Thanksgiving outage, which we were absolutely not happy about. And we knew we needed to find ways to be able to better communicate when situations happen. So that will be coming soon. The ability to actually communicate and let people know what's going on. So it's it's technical innovation, its scale, how do we make the tech services or customer support? process better? How do we provide a greater customer experience, we think that that's really going to be a differentiator, as we look to the future.

Scott Benner 11:40
So a couple of things. I'll start with easier one first, last night, I got a call from Dexcom. Because we've placed an order for new sensors. It's the beginning of this of the year. So you know, there's a check that has to be done. They got to go back to my insurance company and make sure everything's copacetic before they send this stuff out, happens every year, completely. So the phone call is it's pre emptive. It's, it's it's not I had to call in wonder someone called and said, Hey, you know, it's time to order. Do you want to do this? And I'm like, yeah, and then they said, Okay, so a couple days later, this other guy calls back ends up being last night. And we're talking and he says, we have to do a insurance verification. And they say, verification, he used the word that made it seem scary. Maybe it was verification, like you like, you know, we have to we have to do an insurance investigation investigation. He said, he said insurance investigation. And I'm assuming that's what he's been told to say and everything. And at the end of the call, I just said to him, Hey, real quick. I said, there's a better word, that investigation, and he said, What's that? And I said, it made me feel like, scared for a second. And I said, I don't know another way to put it. I'm like, but find another word. And and he's like, thank you. And I could hear him like, he's like, I'll make sure I say that to somebody. He's typing and everything. And I'm like, he's gonna tell somebody that, you know. And I really felt good about I think I forgot my wife came up with the right word. But But she, because I don't know, it was a weird thing. But I know the process. So when he said insurance investigation, I was just like, Oh, I know what's gonna happen. But it made me think about, what about somebody who this is their first time reordering? You know? Right? And maybe they'd be like, oh, what do you mean, an investigation is that, you know, we done something wrong like that. And it's just, it's a little thing. But it was met with, you know, it was met with comfort the guy, he thanked me a couple times, we started to have more human conversation, if that makes sense. Like, if we, you know, he might not off this script a little bit. And I thought, this is where things get worked out, like in these little moments, you know?

Rick Doubleday 13:45
No, and I think that's, I think that's a great point. And we do we really do listen to customers, and there was a, I still, I will still get emails, calls from customers good and bad when they have an experience. And I think the beauty of it is Scott, we I learned from each and every one of them. And we do try to implement those kinds of changes.

Scott Benner 14:11
Yeah, I mean, honestly, the, you know, you got to take your own advice, right. Like the, the data that comes back from the CGM is how I continue to make better and better decisions, how all these people do who have it. I mean, it'd be silly for you to ignore the data coming back as valuable. Right there a little. You know, that would just be ironic. When we were talking, we were talking about bettering the g7. You know, for the, you know, working on that. And first of all, it made me think somewhere at Dexcom. There's little wristbands that keep everybody motivated about g seven with some kind of code name on it. I'm wondering what that code name is. But, but the other thing I was thinking is, it is and Kevin's mentioned to me a couple of times, but its price point, the next hill to climb. Like like and just the disposable nature of the g7 does it begin to address that?

Rick Doubleday 15:04
I think that there is price point is absolutely a hill for us to climb, we know that we have to continue to make this technology less expensive to be able to make it affordable for a broader audience. And we are absolutely focused on that Scott, everything from working with the payers, moving the benefit from a DMV to pharmacy to ease the access. g seven, you know, will not be more expensive than g six, and we're continuing to focus on how we can make it less expensive. But there are there are so many other factors that g seven brings to bear just from, you know, I'll start with a simplicity from a simplicity standpoint, the fact that it is a fully integrated transmitter and center. So there's nothing snapping and snapping out, you just insert the entire unit. A faster warmup time, we're targeting 15 days. So there's just so many different features that we're looking to add at the same time understanding we have to continue to be focused on how do we take costs out of the system, right,

Scott Benner 16:23
those features you're talking about? Are they mostly? Do they mostly happen on the algorithm side? Like I'm assuming you make you know, maybe you're doing maybe you don't I make changes to like the sensor wire itself and and the physical technology, but is it more in the in the algorithm in in the way the information is being interpreted?

Rick Doubleday 16:46
Well, that's part of it. algorithm is absolutely part of the change. But again, we were talking about how Dexcom is willing to go out and make changes across the board. That's what we did with GE six, it was a you know, a new wire new membrane, and we're going to do the exact same thing with G seven as well. That's cool.

Scott Benner 17:09
That's excellent. I mean, I just got please.

Rick Doubleday 17:13
No, I was gonna say and I wanted to go back, you were talking about people wearing little rubber bands to keep themselves motivated around g seven, right. The beauty of that is we don't need the little wristband everybody in around this place is so excited to get g7 to market. You know, it's funny, you mentioned Kevin a few times and he gets absolutely giddy when he talks about g7.

It's, it is truly going to be

an amazing product g six is amazing. g seven is just another step forward for Dexcom.

Scott Benner 17:53
I'm, I'm super excited, is there timelines yet or not yet.

Rick Doubleday 17:58
We're still taught, we are still targeting 2021.

So, you know, we have to be, we have to be I know you and I talked to earlier, Scott about, you know, my time here from 2009 to two now. And you know, one of the big differences are installed base has, has truly grown. And we really have to be cognizant now of ensuring that we've got the right amount of product on the shelves and all of that before we go into a full blown launch, so that we don't get ourselves sideways, and delay launches and things like that. So you know, we are going to be very, very focused on making sure that this launch is our best ever.

Scott Benner 18:45
I think that under promise over deliver is definitely the way to think about stuff like this. You just, you know, there's no winning, if you say if you say April, and it's May, if you're you failed, if you say March and it's February, you're a genius, you know, so, yeah, it just it makes sense. Okay.

Rick Doubleday 19:03
Spoken like a true commercial person.

Scott Benner 19:06
I just you have to, you just have to, you know, you're gonna eventually take this amazing thing and lay it on people. There's no reason for them to start with it feeling like some sort of a letdown when it's clearly not that and that last piece, you know, is, is FDA so you don't ever know exactly the length of, of, you know, time. That's that effort it's going to take? Yep, yeah, that's it's really cool. So the reason I asked you to come on tonight, although all this has been really interesting is that I'm really interested in some of the agreements you just signed. And talking about, you know, closed loop systems or algorithm based pumping, I guess whatever you want to call it. I have I firmly believe that, that this is the way forward for a great number of people. I think that you take any algorithm based system And put it on somebody who's struggling, and they're going to suddenly be doing significantly better. And I think that ends up being, you know, kind of, sadly, the larger part of the community, like the podcast is great, but it talks to people a lot of times who are super motivated to do something. And you know, if you're talking to people who have, you know, who have an eight, they want it to be a seven, they have a seven, they want to be a six, but we don't often get to talk to people who have a 12 a one C and don't know what to do. And so I just think that this is going to be such a health game changer for such a large segment of people. And you're not. And by that I mean, Dexcom Dexcom is not limiting who in the pump community can use the technologies nears like Intel. So what have you done recently with? I guess, tandem and and their control like you? That's, that's on the market now. And then horizon from insolate, from Omni pod is coming. I mean, they're saying this year, right. So I guess talk a little bit about those agreements. First, when you sign like, like a commercial agreement with the pod, you did it for just the G six or the g7, the g7.

Rick Doubleday 21:15
No. So as we as we write these, what we call commercial agreements, typically starts with a development agreement, Scott. So we sit down and lay out kind of the rules of engagement as it relates to how we're going to develop products together. And it's really about who owns what in that development process. And the same thing with the commercial agreements. So as we write these commercial agreements, it is about how we now go about commercializing the commercializing these products. So you know, let's take the insulin agreement for a second. It will be an insolent launch, we are we're there to support where we can. We will, you know, work through various things from there may be co promotions there, there will be tools to jointly make the announcements. And that's what the commercial agreement is really about. I think what I'm most excited about about these agreements is we're actually getting the products to market that, as you talked about, products that change people's lives are truly becoming real. And the tandem control IQ was the first product, I can tell you that there are a number of people that work here at Dexcom that that use that product, one that I work closely with just talks about what a game changer, it has been loved bazel iq absolutely loved it. But now is seeing the impact on his nighttime highs that he'd never seen before. So these products are just like you say they're they're allowing people to get the benefits with with maybe a little less work. And that's what it's all about, how do we make this this disease easier for people to manage? We have always, we've always approached it, you know, we started at Dexcom with this philosophy of partnering with everyone because we're about providing choice. And, you know, we'll continue to look at that and for the right partners that have the ability to commercialize a product the right way we you know, we're always open to that as a potential opportunity.

Scott Benner 23:44
And that road goes both ways too. So like when weleda Yeah, when on the pod also does something similar with I think they're doing something with Libra but not for this current generation like they're doing I think they signed up with them too for like the Libra to moving forward. And and that to me, again, you know, I didn't just have you on here to butter your ass a little bit, but I'm imagining you could stop them from doing that if you wanted to. I'm imagine you could get in a room, close the door and go listen on the pod only works with Dexcom. That's what we want. And and they might be in the position where they have to go, okay, make dinner me like, I don't know, the inner workings of it. But I'm just saying that it's all working this harmoniously through these different, you know, user bases and products. It's it's very encouraging, because things just didn't go like that, you know? Right.

Rick Doubleday 24:41
Yeah. And I think it would be.

I would tell you, I think it would be disingenuous for us to go and do that. I think that you know, whether we could or we couldn't Scott and it wouldn't be the right approach. We went into this with a strategy of offering choice and in at the core We believe that the user should have choice and where where the rubber meets the road is, it's our job to make sure that we have the best product today where the, you know, I would challenge where the only real time continuous glucose monitor out there, Libra is in the market. But we're the one that provides a result every five minutes that allows patients to see their number, their trend era, you know, all agree. Yeah. And it's, it's our job to make sure that we continue to have the best product. And like I said earlier, also the customer experience is going to play such an important role. So customers will have choice, it's our job to make sure that we give them the best choice.

Scott Benner 25:43
Oh, you're doing it for my money. I'll tell you that much. And I wonder if I can ask a couple of different questions. So how do you handle when you're taking this? This thing, right? It's metal, and it's plastic, and you know, and you're fashioning it into this amazing device. And then you're putting it on a human being right. So now you're not just bolting it to a board or hanging it from a wall? You're, you're putting it into somebody whose body chemistry is different? Who is there? hydrations different? There's so many things individually about us that are different. How, how is that? Fine? tuneable? Like for somebody like my daughter who has nothing but success with Dexcom? And then you'll talk to somebody else who's like, you know, I get my period and it goes wonky. Now, it's not that it's it seems that simple from the outset. But how do you actually talk to that person and get them through understanding things like being hydrated so that the interstitial fluid moves around properly? And like, like all that stuff that we just, do you know what I mean? Like, is there a way forward for that? That kind of thing? customer education, or I was wondering what you guys do around that, or what you're thinking about for the future?

Rick Doubleday 26:57
Yeah, no, I think that's one of the things that

one of the things I think Dexcom does extremely well, Scott is, when you look at a lot of companies, you know, you find that the organization is pretty siloed. So r&d would sit off by itself, and they would, you know, create the next latest, greatest thing, marketing is out worried about promotion. And then you've got tech services, you know, our customer support that's in another silo, and they're sitting back and just answering the phone. We're a really integrated organization. So you know, first and foremost, when we are when we're creating new algorithms and new technology, we do a lot of small trials to really get good data to understand how the algorithms performing how the sensor is performing. And we have to do that before we ever take it to the FDA. Right. But it it doesn't stop there once the product launches. And we have the ability to see the data. Our r&d, and marketing and customer support centers are really tied together, they look at the complaints that are coming in. And they work together to figure out what is the right educational components to be able to provide to that user on the phone so that they have a great experience there was there was an example. Not long ago, where I had, I had gotten an email about somebody having an issue with a sensor, and was able to connect them back through to our customer support team. And they were able to walk this person through and it's so funny that you said it. It was really a hydration issue they were they were not hydrating as well as they could so talked about drinking more water. And that really seemed to make a difference for this individual.

Scott Benner 28:58
It's the little stuff you don't think of we we talk on the podcast a lot, because the person came on in and made this analogy one day, and he was an attorney from Canada. And so he said that there are some people who see a man put a pencil in his back pocket and then rob a bank and come to the conclusion that pencils cause bank robbery. And, and and, and you know, you put your CGM on your drinking, you know, a 10th the amount of water a human being needs in a day you don't get a reading back from the century like this CGM doesn't work. Well, right. You know, the CGM is reading fluid in your body and there's no fluid in your body. It's kind of a separate thing. Right? And but that's not your brain wouldn't jump to that being the user. It's always the pencil, you know, right. It's just It's very, it's very interesting. I've had some close contact with a friend of my daughter who has type one recently. And she would make these kinds of statements like oh, that's what my Dexcom does. And I was like, yeah, that's not really what's happening. Let me try to Like help you out here and we got our blood sugar down and stable and got her hydrated, and she's in a better, healthier situation. And now all of a sudden, her CGM reports back much more consistently than it had when her blood sugar was frequently over 400. And, you know, and her body was just going a different way. Now, you know, it's, it's, I guess it's interesting, really, you guys sort of started as a safety company right? In the beginning, you were just trying to make alarms so that people don't get too high or too low. And then, as the equipment the algorithm gets better, you become a decision making company, like, like the help of actually like when insulin goes in, so that now in this timeframe, it's more important than ever, because now these, the horizon algorithm is gonna be is gonna look at information from the Dexcom and say you need insulin or don't need insulin based on this number. I guess that ratchets the game up to a different level. Hmm.

Rick Doubleday 30:53
Yeah, I would agree. I think that

you know, we started out, and I spent, I spent 10 years at lifescan. Before Well, I spent 10 years at lifescan. And then three years at Animas before coming to Dexcom. So I, you know, I spent time in the self monitoring blood glucose face with one touch. And I think the thing for me, and really, one of the things that brought me to Dexcom was the differentiator that this technology provided, you know, you know, this better than I do, Scott, that a blood glucose result, a single point in time does not tell you the information that you need, and Dexcom with a real time continuous glucose monitor. Not only do I see the result, but I see the speed and direction. And I always believe that that was a differentiator, differentiator from a safety standpoint. But exactly what you're saying a differentiator as it relates to, you know, how much and when do I put insulin into my body? When do I not? And I'll take it the next the, you know, the next step, I truly believe that this technology has so much runway in front of it as it relates to individuals not taking insulin, because where else are you going to get a behavior mod tool that truly tells you the impact of the meds that you're taking, that you know, the therapy that you're on the impact of exercise, the impact of the food that you that you eat, I think all of those factors, there's just such a runway for this technology in the future. It's really exciting.

Scott Benner 32:37
No, I agree. I was actually just talking the other day with some I was getting physical therapy on my ankle. And the guy that was helping me was talking about how in his culture, there's a lot of type two diabetes all of a sudden, and he's talking about the things they eat being, you know, much heavier, more carbs, things like that. And how his mother is beginning to wear a glucose monitor. She's self funding at Dexcom. Because her husband got type two diabetes, and she's trying to figure out what foods are impacting her or trying to keep it from happening to her. It's really a forward thinking idea from a person. But yeah, that all exists. It really super does. So what is what's happening right now around Dexcom? Like, what mode? Are you guys in? I mean, I know you're supporting g six and that stuff, but is there like, what's your day like there? Are you trying to get stuff to Canada? Are you trying to spread out into Europe? Like, like, all this happened at once? And how much of that stuff do you have your finger on?

Rick Doubleday 33:44
So my day, let's call it hyper. Dr. Scott.

Yeah, I, so my accountability is global. So yes, all of the things that you just described, we, we've recently, let's, let's take a step back, let's start with the US for a second, we're getting ready to launch in probably the beginning of q2 quarter to our Dexcom Pro system. So this G six, so this will be a professional device that physicians will use. And they'll use it for type one type twos, and it's also the first CGM indicated for people outside of diabetes. And they'll use that within the Office. It's both blinded, meaning you can just use it if you're a physician, just as a tracker patient brings it back. I download the data into clarity, our software program, and I can make adjustments to therapy. It can also run in an unblinded mode real time, you know, similar to what Arden uses and a little bit more scaled back, but then that patient can interact with their diabetes and understand what's going on during that period. So we're really excited about bringing that to market outside the US. We've recently launched g six and the business is going extremely well. We are in GC, we're in, you know, g six, and a number of countries outside, we just recently got approval for GE six in Japan and Korea, and Australia. So the Asia Pac business is growing. So we're really excited about not just what's happening in the US where we're having, you know, tremendous growth is, is more and more people have access to this technology. But we're also excited about being able to offer it outside the US and we're in 40 plus countries now outside the US.

Scott Benner 35:45
Well, Joe, let me tell you that the podcast is in every country except for nine at this point. Most of them are right through the center of Africa, where the North Korea, there's only a couple of places people don't listen. And so I get emails that always start, Scott. Hi, I live in Saudi Arabia. I live in New Zealand, Scott, I'm in Australia, Scott, I'm in South Korea, and I want and it's either a Dexcom, or an Omnipod is the next thing they say how do I do that? And I I always giggle like when I read it. I'm like, I can't believe they've they think I know, but I'm like, okay, so. So I always get to my contact person. I'm like, Can I just forward you this email? And, and I know nothing's you know, listen, if you don't sell it there, you don't sell it there. But it's always my goal to make sure not that you don't know, but that you really, you really are aware that there are people, you know, all over the world looking for this stuff. It's so exciting that it's spreading like this.

Rick Doubleday 36:43
I agree. Yeah. No, it is it is really exciting.

Scott Benner 36:46
Well, so your day is long and tiring. And and do you? Here's a fair question. How many days and how many days end with you feeling like good day? mood for the most days go that way? Or? Like, like, what's that feel? Like? I guess I'm trying to bring people a little bit into, you know, like, it's easy for us to look from the outside and just say this thing I bought doesn't do what I want it to do. Nobody cares. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, like, but there's a real person on the other side of the of the wall. And and they're, they're banging their head on that wall trying to get you that thing? You know, so it does most days it do most days at Dexcom feel positive, like like you're going in the right direction?

Rick Doubleday 37:29
Yeah, I it's a great question.

Yes, the short answer is yes, Scott, I think we're absolutely going in the right direction. I think that one of the things so I'm going to I'm going to take you back if you'll give me just a moment here. I'm going to take you back to I was actually at Animas at the time. And I had just started at animus. And my boss at the time says, Hey, I need you to go to a conference. I was first week on the job. I was leading the marketing team. He said, I need you to go to a conference. He said, okay, where am I going? Said conferences, children with diabetes in Orlando, Florida. My response was You do realize it's July, right? And he was like I do and you're going, so I'm like, Okay. And I went and I walked in, and I was handed my animus badge and I was walking down the hallway. And this woman who I had never met before, remember, I'm three days on the job at Animas, turns around, sees my badge and comes running to me, throws her arms around me and starts crying, sobbing saying you don't know what a difference you've made in my child's my child in my life. And Scott at at lifescan. It was a great company. And we did provide a tool. But I never understood the impact that the things that we made had on people's lives. And it was at that moment that I decided that you know what, as long as diabetes would have me, I was going to be focused on diabetes and not leave it. Then I got introduced to Dexcom. My last job was strategic partnerships and my personal relationship alliance with dexcom. And that's where I got to learn the technology, the leadership. And what Dexcom brought was this whole focus on the patient and the end user, which was absolutely what I believed in. And it was, and then with the technology, it was absolutely what I believed was the game. game changing technology second, only to answer One. So for me, it was an easy choice to join Dexcom that hasn't left here. So I know it's a really long winded answer to, yes, most days that I end up and they're long days, but they're really good days, because we're headed in the right direction. I take every one of those, you know, where we have fallen down and not provided what we needed to do. It hurts. But I know that we're working to make sure that that experience in the future is the best possible. And that's what keeps me motivated and brings me in here each and every morning. So long answer, hopefully, it was, you know, what you were looking for. But yes, I think I think we're absolutely headed in the right direction. The technology that Dexcom offers, in my mind is second to no one with our real time glucose monitor. It's what we are focused on. And we're focused on the technology and the patient experience. So I couldn't be happier about you know, the direction we're going

Scott Benner 41:03
well, I hope you get to say stay around the space for a really long time. So you can see it bear out in decades, because I interviewed a woman this morning, who's you know, toddler was diagnosed it baby even under two years old. And she found the podcast on day one, which led her right to index calm. And if you could see this kids graphs, this mother figured out the stuff I'm talking about on here, so quickly and so thoroughly. And so like, as I was speaking to her, I had troubled not wondering like, how much better this child's life's going to be over decades that might reach beyond my lifetime, even. And right and, and it's just really encouraging. I just, you know, Rick, you don't know me prior to this podcast, and diabetes and everything, but I sort of was not a Chicken Soup for the Soul person when this all started, you know what I mean? And now, I don't know if I am that. But I definitely have a really strong feeling for helping other people that maybe didn't exist in me before. And to hear somebody say something that that could to an outsider feel small, like, I'm able to concentrate while I'm doing my homework now. Or, you know, I thought I thought I was crazy, because my blood sugar would jump around. And my doctor would always say, you know, you're doing fine, but it didn't feel fine. Those little things. You know, the to a casual observer wouldn't seem like a big deal to me. They fill my heart up, like a woman once said to me, and there's a little bit of a curse in here, but not much. And it just I think it really shows the the intensity of it, she said that she thought her daughter was. And when she found the podcast and stabilized her blood sugar, and got her on the tools that we talked about here, she realized her daughter was a really lovely person whose blood sugar was bouncing all over the place. And I just thought when she said that, imagine if they would have spent their whole life thinking that about each other. And just right, what a sad shame that would be it just goes so far beyond just diabetes. I think sometimes.

Rick Doubleday 43:08
No, I agree. And I think and and the fact you're right, what their whole life could have been. But I think what's so exciting about that, that comment, Scott is what their what their life will look like, in the future. Because they the flip side, they could have been stuck in that mode for a really long time.

Scott Benner 43:24
Oh, no, I, I always come back to a single mom that I spoke to once in her late 30s, who had had diabetes since her teens, and was genuinely living with a 12 a one c forever. And then she said, you know, we spoke privately once and the next day she her blood sugar was between like 80 and 120. And she had a dexcom she had the tool, she just didn't know how to use it. And it just, there was this moment where she was grateful. But then for a minute, she got upset. And she said How come nobody ever told me this? You know, like, like, why is that not the standard of explanation and care in the space and and so the part that fills me with hope is that one day, I just hope that one day people are diagnosed, and they're told, hey, this glucose monitor exists, this is how an insulin pump works. Here's how insulin works now you can you can build off of that but at least you have those building blocks right there to start with instead of the fear and anxiety and you know, the your blood sugar starts jumping all over the place and you know, you lose you lose your personality. And before you know it you think it's it's it's hopeless. It's just a very slippery fast slope. You can fall down that hill and and never climb back up again. But it's just not necessary. So I hope one day that it just, I hope one day somebody that you know, the king of diabetes calls me and says Hey, everybody knows you can you can stop now. And you know and i i don't know what i would make a podcast about then.

Rick Doubleday 44:58
Yeah. I would be right. I, and I've said this before that, you know, nothing, nothing would make me happier Scott than a cure for diabetes. I'll happily go out of a job if we if we can solve this. I think in the meantime, you know, your comment about looking to the future, and being in this space for time to come. I can't wait for that teenager, adult that I meet in the future, that when I talk about doing finger sticks, has no idea what I'm talking about. Because they've been using a dexcom, continuous glucose monitor not having to do finger sticks. And it's ancient technology, like the rotary phone that I grew up with. That that's, that's, you know, the next thing I'm looking forward to

Scott Benner 46:01
when it just feels like you just said to them, Hey, did you you know, do you know, people used to have to boil their urine test their blood sugar, you know, like, like that guy stuff. You just just gone down? Hey, listen, what I'm going to do is I'm going to keep my Contour Next One ad off of this episode. I've I've done yet.

Rick Doubleday 46:22
I'm looking to the future. Don't

Scott Benner 46:23
Don't worry, essentially, it's gonna be a while from now. But no, no, but I, but I, Seriously though, I'm, I feel very lucky. You know, I started a podcast hoping to help people, the first month, it had a few hundred downloads. This month, it'll have no downloads. And, and I was very lucky that it was successful enough that I could pick and choose the ads I took, because I couldn't, I just don't know how I would get on this microphone, and talk about stuff that I don't believe in that I don't see doing. You know, the things that they're doing run by the kinds of people who I get to meet, you know, like you. And Joking aside that Contour. Next One is the best damn blood sugar meter I've ever used. And so that's, that's why they're the ones on this podcast, getting to talk about their meters, because trust me, they all wanted to be on the podcast, those are the ones I chose. And index comment on the potter right there with that, I just, it's just it's next level stuff. And the people, whether their voices being recorded or not, give me a good feeling. You guys, you know that that's how I feel when I walk away from a conversation with someone like you. I think I really believe you. I believe that if somebody tomorrow walked into your office and said, Hey, Rick, I got the you know, I got the cure to diabetes here. You know, you know what you want to put it in this in this drawer so we can keep this Dexcom thing going? I think you would say, you know what, we're all gonna have to find another job. Because, yep, you've met these people. And you know, what it what the disease does to them. So, yeah, that's excellent. I really appreciate you coming on. I realize we never set it in time. So as we're talking, I'm like, is he like, I gotta go or. But I really, I really do. I really do appreciate you coming and doing this. Is there anything? I know you probably did you just get back from Spain.

Rick Doubleday 48:20
I was not in Spain. I had team members there. I did just get back from your tie in about awareness, and which is still such an opportunity for us. So I appreciate what you do Scott, and helping drive that awareness. But I was had a chance yesterday to meet Sugar Ray Leonard. And he actually has a foundation, the Sugar Ray Leonard foundation. And he had his father who just recently passed away lifted the 94 had type two diabetes. So he has a real passion created this foundation that is connected with Children's Hospital of Los Angeles, and is about promoting awareness around diabetes. And the I think the thing that was so cool that he said was, you know, this is a guy that fought Marvin Hagler Duran, Tommy hearns. And he said, and he was sincere. He said, my toughest, the toughest battle I'm going to fight is fighting this diabetes thing. Because we've just got to find a way to make a difference. So I, I'm, I'm telling you that because I appreciate what you do as well to drive the awareness to let people know that there are solutions out there like Dexcom CGM, like insolate and that others are taking up that cause as well.

Scott Benner 49:57
So I appreciate what you do. Listen, it's Just a reflection of what I see working in my life with my daughter, and honestly is like I, it's you because you work it, you know what I mean? Like if it was somebody else, it'd be somebody else. But but you guys are the ones doing it right. So it's easy to talk about, I really appreciate it. Great. If I could say goodbye for a second, and would you hold on for just one second,

Bret Christensen 50:19
I would.

Scott Benner 50:22
We don't really need much in the way of ads for this episode. Let's just go over it one more time. If you'd like to get started with the dexcom, g six continuous glucose monitor, it would help me if you went to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box to find out more about the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, you want to know about the speed and direction that your blood sugar is going, you want to be ready for these great automatic insulin delivery systems that are here and on the way you just want to be healthier. You'd like for diabetes to be a smaller part of your life, these tools are going to help that dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox, there's going to be links in your show notes of your podcast player. And at Juicebox podcast.com. type it into your browser. But if you can, you know, hit my link, that'd be terrific. I don't get paid by the link, I don't want you to think that that's not how this works. It just lets the sponsors know that you're coming through the show. Also the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, don't wait. Right? Don't get it into your head, like I'll wait for her eyes and just get the on the pod down Get going, you're going to be an absolute rock star stud with it by the time horizon gets here, and you'll make an easy transition to horizon, it's not going to be a problem. And by the way, if you don't want an automated system, you don't have to on the pod. They want what you want. In just a moment you're going to hear from Brett, and he's going to tell you that what Omni pod wants for you to have more than anything is choice. You'll see what I mean in a second. The great thing about on the pod of course is that they'll offer you a free no obligation demo of the on the pod right now, you don't have to buy it, you're not locked into anything. You just go to my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, you fill in a little bit of information and they'll send a pump right to your house. It's non functioning, don't worry, can't hurt yourself with it. Give yourself insulin or anything like that. But what you can do is where you can live in it and see how you'll enjoy it. One of my favorite things about wearing the demo pod is that you just forget it's there after a little while. Touched by type ones mission is to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive. They are my absolute favorite type one diabetes, charity. They're small, but they're powerful. And they're growing constantly check them out, just go to touch by type one.org. They're not looking for anything else from you. They just want you to know they're there. So you can see what they're doing. Touched by type one.org. And now, let's go to Brett Christiansen from the bot.

How are you?

Bret Christensen 53:29
Good. How you doing? Good. Where are you at?

Madrid Spain?

Scott Benner 53:37
Oh, okay. All right. How long you're there for?

Bret Christensen 53:42
all week. So I mean Friday morning. Nice. Thank you always. Great show.

Scott Benner 53:47
You're in Madrid. I'm in New Jersey, yes. Using a cell phone, which we don't usually do. But it's a big exciting kind of time. So we're making an exception.

Unknown Speaker 54:00
All right, so

Unknown Speaker 54:02
So, so you guys had a pretty big

Scott Benner 54:06
announcement the other day, I think it's sort of to me felt like a cementing of something we knew was coming as far as Dexcom. But the libri thing was a curveball for me. Can you tell me about that a little bit?

Bret Christensen 54:21
Yeah, I mean, I know that it should have been a curveball, because you know, the strategy all along right with interoperability is that you allow patients choice. And so we've been working for a long time with x calm. And as you know, we're launched on the pod horizon limited Dexcom g six. We announced last week that we're going to work together to quickly add g seven, which we know is important to our users. And then the abbot announcement was again, consistent with interoperability because, you know, what we do is we want to provide the best content delivery system out there. And so we're in the business of selling pods and pods marking pods. And so we want to allow patients, our users, sensors. And so if for whatever reason they want to use a Dexcom versus Abbott sensor, we see a product where you turn on your, your TPM, or you access the app from your smartphone. And there's a drop down box that says select your sensor, you're able to say that stop g six Dexcom g seven. That liberates you. That's the vision that we provide that choice to our users.

Scott Benner 55:34
And, and that Libra is not the current one that's available, though. There's one that's coming. That's the one that's going to work with.

Bret Christensen 55:42
Yeah, so the Libra shoe. That's right. It's the one that's coming. And and, you know, the real rationale for that is in Abbott said this bill working with the FDA to get ai CGM certification for Libra to as you know that that designates that CGM is an AI CGM. We've already been designated as an ace top. And then with horizon will be pivotal. But right now, we we intend to make the horizon algorithm the AI controller. So those are the three components necessary for an AI system. And what it actually does is it's a quicker to market pathway. So it's not a PMA product, it's not really going to add 10 kids, it's a it's a validation that the two companies should do together to make sure that that's actually works. odd. And with the rise in algorithm, it's a real short to market timeline.

Scott Benner 56:37
Not to jump around. But does that mean that tide pool also has to begin over? If they want to support the librato?

Bret Christensen 56:49
No, no, because, you know, the tide pool application is, is already being developed with the parks and effects job. And so that will just continue. So they, I guess, if they wanted to add lubri, to to that application, they could do so. But that system is being built with those three components in mind. And so then that comes g six is already an IC GM that they're working on is becoming the AI controller. And so they're working on that designation with the FDA, then they'd be able to pair that with Omni pod, the pump, those three components should be able to work together that system. I understand.

Scott Benner 57:29
Yeah, I didn't ask my question correctly. That's what I was asking. So Perfect. Thank you for clearing that up. So is it fair to say that? Is it fair to say that when horizon launches, Dexcom will probably be before Libra to where do you think Libra can catch up and get their designation in time for your launch?

Bret Christensen 57:50
No, I know, we're pretty tough. So when when we launched because we're again, we're in the trial now with Dexcom and Dexcom, kusik. So what we anticipate is that launch, which we've set it up for the second half of this calendar year, the system will be in the beginning, we will have full control on certain Android smartphones, there will be just the Dexcom gs six initially, and on the on the horizon algorithm. So that will be the component and that will be the system on day one. And then we'll look to add g7 and Libra to future developments. But there's still technical work that we have to do, even though the FDA does the clinical pathway to get there. Gotcha. And

Scott Benner 58:30
so, horizon. So I think this is a when I'm listening to people talk and ask their questions. And even just for the last two hours, I asked people, you know, that are following the podcast just on Facebook, like what would you be wondering? their questions, mimic them? I know a lot. But there were some interesting things I saw pop up where they just don't understand. So, you know, a lot of people said, Look, I can't get I can't seem to get a dash PDM. Is that going to stop me from getting horizon? Which led me to believe that they don't understand that horizon is going to be phone control, right? You're not going to need a PDM with horizon? Is that correct?

Bret Christensen 59:08
It's correct. But one clarification is that we will still distribute a PDF to every user. So even a user that says, Look, I want to I want to start off on horizon, using my own smartphone will still ship them a PDF, just as a backup device for that company we told the FDA to do. Yeah, so they'll have that right. So you don't need your need from control. For horizon, it will come Wikipedia, but anyone that chooses to just have the app on their phone, it can effectively eliminate one component of the system. So that's the beauty of phone controls. And you can do that. But but those that don't have an Android device don't want the app to want phone control, the ability to have a rising PDF,

Scott Benner 59:49
so horizon won't run off of iPhone.

Bret Christensen 59:55
Not initially. So again, that's the partnership with tide pool, but the one One of the real benefits that we get there, that's probably a shortage pack way to have Omni pod control through the iOS Apple system, because the tide pool application is built on exclusively iPhone. So it's probably the shortest path with Apple. But we have said that we are going to be working on an iOS version of horizon,

Scott Benner 1:00:21
I say, How are the trials going? Are they steaming along like you hoped? Are you learning anything from them?

Bret Christensen 1:00:31
Yet you also were blinded to the data. So we did a pre pivotal that started in December until almost the first of the year for a real small number of patients that we can have visibility to, will look to probably shoulder data potentially at ABA. But you have to be here on out we're really blinded to the data. So we'll get feedback from our investigators to fix even problems or issues that and then we see enrollment, but that's about it. So I will say this a Roman has been very strong. And if you talk to Dr. Lai, our medical director, she'll tell you that many investigators said they had people will fly from Texas to the Pacific Northwest to be in the trial. There was that much demand, so we won't have any problem during the enrollment for the trial. We know that much. But we don't see that the comfortable results and print the results until that Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:01:19
And so that you won't you don't get to see those results until the FDA comes back with a report for you about how they found the trial to be.

Bret Christensen 1:01:28
Yes, that's right. What we'll see it once it's complete in the data block and the results are in that's when we see it. We do get, you know, anecdotal stories I will have investigators will tell us how horizon has changed where their patients lives, there's, there's a story about a young patient that you know, had problems really wetting the bed, because the lot of rains, you know, the just that they couldn't keep the right, the right level. And that went away with almost immediately with the horizon. So there's some really cool patient stories, how it's changed people live, parents that are sleeping with their kids, a lot of that. But again, we don't see any time and range or you need to know clinical results. Until the completion of the trial. Do you do you see horizon as being for people who are really struggling? Only? Or do you? Or will it be able to be used by I don't know what to call it like a super user, somebody who's got a six and a half a one C and just really wants it to be a five and a half? Do you think that it has applications for for both kinds of people? Yeah, I do. I actually, I think it's for everybody. And and you'll see that is really stilted. So it's flexible enough that you could still be a super user. And really fine tune your time and arrange your will have set points from 110 to 150. But just the way it works is about you know, the beauty of CGM is it gives users really powerful information they can act on to try to get a real tight timing range. But they're not acting on that in a way that horizon writings getting a value from CGM from Dexcom every five minutes. And then it's making an interim dosing decision every five minutes or every five minutes that you've assumed a unique dose of insulin that's driving them to a target. That's just something that I could give it a power user on dash saves a hard time driving to that road. So I think it's for everybody, the ease of use and simplicity, it's gonna be great for somebody that hasn't wanted to adopt pod therapy. But I think it's flexible enough that a power user can get even better results on arrival.

Scott Benner 1:03:34
Are the are targets definable by the user? Or is it locked in it at at some target blood sugar

Bret Christensen 1:03:44
defined by the user. And so you can set different targets for different situations. But, you know, we wanted the flexibility with the lowest one. So that's the bottom set point. And if I want to do so, in increments of 10, so 141 5130 and 2110, those are the set points that are user defined. And then there's a you know, a feature like hyper protect, where, let's say you have a child that's going to sleep over or you're going to be exercising in some extreme way, you can set it too high for protect mode, which really kind of ignores that setpoint and lets you run at a higher rate for a longer period of time. And so this is something that we think is gonna be really valuable as well for this in situations. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:04:27
so I don't know if this is your space are not like I think I'm asking one of the right people. But, you know, dash came out in, I think in the within the last year and some people are able to grab it and some people are seem to be having trouble getting covered for it. And what I'm seeing is that that's causing people concern that they're not going to be able to get horizon moving forward. Is there a way to talk about the first I guess what what people should be doing if they want bash and if that has any impact on horizon

Bret Christensen 1:05:00
Yeah, let's back up as far as I can. So, you know, one thing we did with that, we really wanted to start over with, with the way that omsa reimburse the way patients pay for pumps and the way, they're restricted to migrate from one technology to the next. And so, you know, this, but the pump market historically has been a decision that it should make, there's a large upfront fee. For the pair case, of course, and other than patients pay for course, now, because of that large upfront fee, the pair had locked a patient in for four years to that piece of technology. That's troublesome. And it's actually it's not, it's it actually is a counter incentive to innovating and innovating quickly. And so a manufacturer like us actually has an incentive to only release a product every four years, because we have a large install base that can only adopt that new technology once every four years. And so if we hadn't done that, in which imagine patients actually digit cash, so we've spent over a year now, putting patients on dash from our legacy Omni pod product, those patients in the old model would be locked into a four year warranty carrier would not have access to horizon for the work through that four year period. So that that went away with that, because we did that, you have to renegotiate contracts in pairs. And so there are some users that have not been able to get gas because their pair will not pay for it in that manner. But the one existence that we made when we watch dashes, and we want to charge these large upfront fees, we also want to lock patients into a four year period. So the good news for those patients who's literally got gas yesterday, or still haven't got it, it has no bearing on their ability to get horizon because the baby launch horizon, the only thing that matters was real their pay or pay for it. And so it doesn't matter if they've had dash haven't had dash, none of that matters because it adopt that new technology, because you're not locked in to that four year period. And we're not going to build a pair for the largest selfie, that she's not paying up front. That's the good news. But that's been a shift, and it's taken us some time to build that access. Today, we've got over 50% of covered lives that have access to this new model. So we're not charging that fee. But if you're part of the the, you know, the 40 or 50%, that doesn't, we may have a problem getting on DAC so far. But that's getting better every day. But you know, the way I always talk about this, Scott is it's like cell phones were 20 years ago, you know what I had the key to Brian, they owned by phone number, they locked me into a three year contract, and I wasn't able to switch regardless of how poor my service was. And that's the pub market today, the the durable medical equipment, so we decided go away from that. So it'll be easy for patients to get on product that it's easy for them to get off, will not do a good job. That's the model that we see patients that choice, this choice of DVDs.

Scott Benner 1:07:50
So if I'm gonna make a hypothetical here, if I'm a person who can't get dash at, you know, for whatever reason about my insurance horizon comes out, can I just get horizon and use it with my phone? Or do I have to be able to receive the dash because the FDA thing like I'm saying, are the people who are are somehow blocked right now from dash? Will they also be blocked from horizon for that reason? Or do you think you'll have that straight by the end?

Bret Christensen 1:08:20
Just depends. But look, we're we're making progress on that every day. But what's likely is that their dash coverage will be pretty closely mirrored by the horizon coverage, because we all have the same payer, right? So pick pick a large commercial payer, and let's say they are paying for gas today, they're likely to pay for horizon when it comes out, right away, right, reimburse that, if they're not, for whatever reason, if it's a holding on to this four year locking period, and this larger, upfront fee, and we haven't been able to convince them that this new model is better for patients and frankly, better prepares. Because we assume that risks, we're not charging them for four years of therapy of swans, and they don't have to hope that patients use that product. So we haven't been able to do that yet. We need to do that between now and arising. Because it'll be the same model for a rising and so it again, it's a good thing, because horizon will be we're gonna be given a software company, right. And so as we innovate through software into applications, patients should always be able to adopt that newest version of horizon without having an upfront period, this four year locking period, but we just got to establish that access for them.

Scott Benner 1:09:24
So you're making an improvement a shift into the type of business you're doing, because of the improvement in the technology. But the insurance companies are stuck in, in the model they're in so you, is it a is a Yes. Is it a Is it an explanation thing? Do they not understand or they just resistant? Like, like, I'm assuming every day is frustrating when you're trying to make this work. But is there a path to it eventually do you think?

Bret Christensen 1:09:54
Well, yeah, and I. So let me let me say one thing, so you know, what I started with in 2003. years ago, we had been on the market for 15 years, and we were the worst reimbursed influence on the marketplace at that point in time. And so it took us forever to get to really good access with our legacy Omni pod today, you know, after just after less than a year of launching bash, we have better access to the ad, when I started with and slept with, after 15 years of work, it's actually happening very quickly, believe it or not, and most of the large parents have adopted it. But there's thousands of pairs, there's a lot of small plans, every state's got their own Medicaid. And so it's just a lot of work. And the story, we have to tell, thankfully, is a useful model that takes four pumps in the way that I described, locks up free Wi Fi for your locking period. So I feel like scratching the value of this new system, that value really is that we're owning the rest, because they only get outcomes, which they want. Because they get health outcomes. And they don't, it doesn't cost them very much if the user actually uses on the pod every day. And so they don't, because we didn't do the job of the product, then they stopped paying for it, then, you know, with the historical models, they pay for the front that hopefully, usually you got, you know, every patient from an average migrate between health plans every two and a half years. So why appear would want to pay for four years of therapy for anything knowing that on average, that that patient is going to stay with their health plan for two and a half years just doesn't make sense. So once we tell that story, it resonates with payers and the adoption actually very quick. We just have to, we just have to deal with it, we were the first to market and we were the first insulin pump on the marketplace. This is how reimbursement would have been set up. Here's what if it all paid for what the patient's using it for the benefits I'm getting, but they stopped using it, I want to stop paying for it, nobody would pay for four years of allergy medicine right up front, you know, you get that prescription filled every month, and that's okay, I just want to do. So they're they're migrating actions pretty rapidly. It's improving every day, it's just you have to tell the story and reach all those health plans.

Scott Benner 1:12:02
You know, it's funny, and I'm not known for being great at being like, office, correct, my wife always tells me if you had an office job, you would just get fired in a week. But so I'm gonna say this because I have, I have like historical, you know, time with on the pot, I've been working with them in one way or another for a really long time. And so I've had access in and had impactful conversations with people throughout the years. And what I can say is that, from my perspective, around five years ago, the leadership of Omni pod changed significantly. And I mean, through the actual people sitting in the positions, but also with the idea of what the company was for, like there was a time prior to JC that I thought this company might sell or even go out of business at some point, like I used to support on the pod because I loved it. And I wanted it to exist for my daughter. And I always felt like I always just felt like that leadership prior wasn't doing what I would hope they would do as a customer. And it is completely 180 degrees from that now. And it's, it's interesting. Because I have that perspective, I see how far it's come, how fast it's come and how the focus has become something that I'm excited by. But that's not exactly something you can communicate to people as they're coming in. And they're seeing, you know, tandem, put their pump out and it looks suddenly like their head when you don't know the whole story. It's it's an interesting, I don't know if you want to talk about that. But that's my perspective of it.

Bret Christensen 1:13:38
Well, I'll tell you the good thing about being able to state that we have the right to the entire management team, and that's just the executive level, but you're hard pressed to find anybody in it for the schedule longer than five years. The good thing about that is that, you know, we were in such a state at that time, you know, just how we marketed the product, how we sold the product, the quality of the product, the the amount that we were spending on r&d, or how little we were spending, frankly, on r&d. You know, when the new management team came in, it was pretty easy to take some risks because we had to, we had to do things dramatically different. And so we've done some things and the question I get asked so often is how are you willing to make these bold decisions and take these types of risks because frankly, some of them could not have worked out and ended up in a worse situation. But you know, we made the decision to move a large portion of our manufacturing from China to the US. That's a big decision which stood over $300 million automating the manufacturing lines and why as important you know, last year we made over 30 million parts until the quality has to be really really good on those that we have the opportunity to provide a bad patient experience bad news experience every three days. You know where you get a lemon when you buy a car once in a while. You don't buy a car every three days. We're effectively delivering a new pump to a patient every three days has to be done. Quality. So we put significant investment in that, we decided to disrupt the way the products paid for and to go to the pharmacy pays to go model that where patients don't pay for this large amount upfront, they're not locked into a piece of technology for four years, that's a long time, imagine not being able to upgrade your iPhone software for four years. It's silly, and it's not the way that it should be done. So that was a bold move. You know, we took our, our business back from our European distributor. So we went direct in a really short amount of time in Europe, which enabled us to expand beyond the small amount of European countries that we're in today to expand globally, there's just there's been a lot of things we've done in the finals, we took this was a good product, you know, an omni pod, and we're manufacturing with PDM is controllers with our own proprietary software. And we realize that there are companies out there that make pretty good handhelds called Apple and Samsung and these type of companies we moved on, we pocket this mobile platform, which took a lot of time, it was really risky, very expensive. But it's set us up now. And I appreciate that it's really all that work, it's just kind of coming to a close. Now, we haven't seen the result from a lot of it, but it's going to enable us to move really quickly in the future. And to innovate very quickly. And you know, the reason why I think users and patients only have adopted, you know, insulin pumps 35% of the time, which is probably the penetration rate of all type one patients in the US, that's a that's a visible penetration rate and usage rate, considering the insulin pumps have been around for 30 years, but the technology has not been good enough. And so if you're willing to give yourself four or five shots a day, that tells me that we just just have to do a better

Scott Benner 1:16:46
I am, I couldn't be more excited about where this all is. It's it's just it's tough for the, for the casual observer to understand the big picture of it, it's you know, and when you tell them, they just want nobody wants to hear it, you know what I mean? Like, everybody just wants it now, and, and they don't know, they don't know what had to happen. It's not like it's not like, it's not like you guys made a bad decision. Like you're making these, you're making these amazing moves. I saw the manufacturing floor. You know, I don't know if I ever shared this on here. But I came up and spoke to employees last year. And I was able to I was just there to tell them what Omni pod meant to my family. But I got a tour of the manufacturing and it is incredible. It's just it's people would not believe how on the pods are made. It's it's stunning. You guys are set up for you know, I was talking to the gentleman that set the floor up who I always think I want to interview because he seems so damn interesting. And, and, and he was explaining how you know how this setup allows changes to be made without like, huge tear downs from the manufacturing. And I was just like this is this is like state of the art. And you move that into the country. And and you haven't right there. It's right there. So I don't know, it just makes sense to me. I'm jacked up. I'm excited. So I hope

Bret Christensen 1:18:04
I'm excited to you know,

I get I get that it feels like we're not doing enough. I'm not doing it quickly enough. And I frankly I was there too. When I started with inside, why don't we just put an app on the phone that controls on Wi Fi, that's easy enough to do, right? Every 14 year old kid in America has got a video game on the phone that they built in their garage, that seems like it should be something pretty easy to do. But it's incredibly complex process and then never would really, you know, developing software that's going to deliver micro doses of insulin have to be incredibly accurate because insulin is a fantastic life saving drug that can be deadly if you don't do it. So it just there's a lot of scrutiny here and technology, not real quickly. I will say this, how can we estimate credit because the other we've always had the idea to put an app on a phone and control on the pond, but nobody ever thought that the FDA would get there would be comfortable with that. So you know, we've worked with them very closely to get there. I think once we get through these pivotal roles, and if we can get horizon approved on the marketplace, it's going to solve so many of the things that people are asking us for the number one request we get from a patient that still using multiple injections and they want an app on their phone. And if they could get an app on their phone, they put it on the playground and give it a shot. We can get to that. We're gonna we're gonna have a tremendous uptick of legalization because we know it's going to be a tremendous experience. You

Scott Benner 1:19:31
know, I can't tell you how many years ago it was where JC was telling me the very same thing. She's like, Listen, we want to put it on the phone. You know, we have to prove it out to the FDA, but it always felt like yes, we wanted to do it, but we don't I mean, it seems unlikely they're gonna say yes to this and that. That was a handful of years ago, but in FDA terms, it's quick, you know, and it's a big leap for them and you can see why. Especially how you described earlier like just how pumps have been forever. You know, to go from That sort of stagnant system to Hey here, it's gonna be on your cell phone is a is a major jump. Let me ask you a couple of quick hit quick heading questions here and see if you, um, if you have answers, I know you're saying the last half of the year, and you're a publicly traded company, you can't just give me a day. But do you think you're gonna hit in 2020?

Bret Christensen 1:20:23
Yeah, absolutely, we wouldn't be saying it, you know. So again, you know, we'll finish enrollment into the middle of trial, probably end of May, the latest will submit to the FDA, a little bit by 30 to 90 days, and then and then, you know, it's just a matter of doing some sort of relief at the end of the year. And so yes, I do think we'll hit it. And, you know, then 2021 will be all about getting as many people on really the best product on the market, which will be horizon. So we'll make sure that we're ready to do the, I'm glad that we've got the time. Because your point earlier, we've got, we've got market access to build further, even though we've made tremendous gains there, we've got supply to build, we've got marketing materials, we've got to make sure you have product support worked out, because now you know, we're talking about patients calling us and saying something's wrong with my system. And we got to quickly assess it to, you know, the way Dexcom is communicating with Omni pod is is the army product is the next commerce with something in between, and we just have to, you have to serve those goods. And so we're adding some complexity here on our ends, so that life is simpler for the user. And so we just got to figure all that out. But I'm excited for it could be one sided.

Scott Benner 1:21:37
I have a follow up for that. But first, it does Canada and Europe happening concurrently? Or will that take longer?

Bret Christensen 1:21:46
Not concurrently in the US will be first. And really just the it's the regulatory pathway for each individual country? And then you know, languages units of measure, but will they'll be fast followers, both of them? But but also the first,

Scott Benner 1:22:02
can I press you and ask you do you think 2021 for Canada and Europe?

Bret Christensen 1:22:10
You can trust me, I think. But you don't have to answer.

I just don't know if I can. I guess I don't I don't think we've hit that timeline out there. But I think I think they'll be fast followers.

Scott Benner 1:22:24
So you just mentioned something that I was going to bring up. So I've seen an algorithm work. And I've been in this space where I've tried to understand it. And what you just said about support is, it can't be stated strongly enough. So we we already live in a space where you know, and I see it more from the podcast than maybe most people do. But we already live in a space where most endocrinologist struggle to help people who are pumping or using MDI, to have the outcomes that they're looking for. And when you're using an algorithm, there are settings to consider. And if you don't have those settings, right, the algorithm, you know, you can't you can't tell a robot that there's a wall, eight feet in front of it, but the walls really four feet in front of it and expect it not to walk into the wall. And so the settings, you know, the parameters you put on it are incredibly important. But moreover, the way the algorithm thinks is unlike how most people are accustomed to thinking about diabetes, so the support is it's paramount. And I think that it's even more so maybe not just for people's success. But because I truly believe that algorithm based insulin pumping is what people should be doing moving forward and what they will do and what will be the best for them as far as their outcomes and their health and their stability and the amount of time they have to put into diabetes. But what I've seen is, is that when they try it, and it doesn't do what they expect it to do, and like it or not, their expectation is set it and forget it, which it's never going to be that right now. If you aren't able to shepherd them through the process, I'm so fearful that this really amazing advancement will will scare people away. And have you guys thought about it in that in those terms. I'm wondering

Bret Christensen 1:24:27
yes or no.

You're right about your stat. If something's not working in in, you know, one of the biggest challenges we might have is patient perception in their automated insulin delivery or artificial pancreas or how it's described to them. And we might think that they don't have to do much in one day. That might be possible. Because what we have done with the algorithms we have booted simpler, we're starting to make it make it so it's the parameters are set just right to the algorithm can compensate a little But for that, and so the algorithm gets better. And each one, you know, becomes faster actually, we'll be able to get better and better at that. And the goal will be one day to eliminate parameters, right. So that, you know, the reason why physicians have these complicated data management systems, and they're all budgeted out there, and they probably have all of them in their office, because they're looking at these reports, they're trying to achieve CGM values and influence those seasons. And then they're trying to fine tune these parameters. That's a real hard thing to do. And it's something that an algorithm should be better at doing in the future. But we're not quite there yet. We haven't eliminated all the knobs and the parameters that need to be set. So we do need to make sure that you train with just diligence and training, you know, this is going to be an incredibly simple system to use. And we'll move on to dash for existing users of Omni pod, have you provided online training, some patients do the content on training, because it's so intuitive, but they've been on pump therapy, so they know how important it is to know about your meals. important is to set the right base level, they know all these things. But if the pump gets easier and easier to use, we need to make sure that we're with justice, diligence and training. So we plan on doing that with horizon review. We do live training with our users and follow up in seven days, we call them 30 days, we bought the 90 days, just to make sure that they're just as guilty, because if they're not, and they look at this as an opportunity to do a lot less, they're not going to get the results that they should be getting improved results from arise. And so I'm excited about the future one day that I think I think we will get to the point where we can eliminate a lot of defenders because the algorithms that go in technological perspective, we're not there today. And so we just got to be very good at training and make sure that we take very seriously that the user has to do it, even though that's a lot easier with horizon.

Scott Benner 1:26:50
Isn't it interesting how you're on the cutting edge of something. And in its infancy at the same time, it's when you're making a leap like this, right? It's such a it's a weird headspace to be in because you're like, this is better than it's ever been. But with the way technology grows and leaps, two years from now, you'll look back at the first algorithm be like, Ah, you know, like, it's just, it's fascinating how quickly things move. And by the way, that's exciting. Yeah, because in diabetes, there were no leaps, just just five or six, maybe seven years ago, it was I say it all the time, you get excited if somebody made a new meter? And you say, is it more accurate? And they're like, no, but it's got a, it's got a color screen, you know, like that, and that excitement. So

Bret Christensen 1:27:40
it's just there's no other time, like, you know, what, what's interesting is, you know, expectations will just keep getting higher with our users. And that's okay, we're gonna live with that, right? You know, we would actually, it was a big leap from our legacy Omni pod to dash, we just, we, we launched the view app, right, where a parent can see what's going on with Omni pod for the child to the distance, you know, you should send your child to people, but you get to see what's going on within put on board and without me but but when that doesn't work exactly the way it's supposed to work, that people are upset, right, regardless of the fact that that didn't even exist a year ago, right. So so that's the way it will be is technology gets better expectations will just get higher and higher. That's great, though, because, you know, our mission is to improve the lives of patients with diabetes. And we will do that through technology use that looks like patients will be that that continues to get better over time. And well,

Scott Benner 1:28:32
yeah, I believe it will. I mean, I've I've got a long enough lines now that I've seen it in the past. And for everybody who's newer diagnosed or, you know, prone to be a little impatient, I guess sometimes. And for really good reasons. I'm just telling you, like, just hang on, like, I think ami pods moving in the right direction. And they have been for a really long time. This is just like another example of that. So I let me ask you, do you have to once your trials done, do you have to restart for a kid's trial? Or is that being done concurrently, so will pedes be available at launch?

Bret Christensen 1:29:10
So the trials going down to the age of six, so that should be available at launch, and then we will need to do more clinical work to lower the age glowsticks so could a you know Omni pod is cradle to grave. It's there's there's no limit on the age range. And we're the leader in pediatrics. So we also you know, there's an ad system has gone down to six today. And so we've, we were really, you know, emphasizing that to at least get to six in this clinical trial, but we're going to quickly get below six. We've got some data for patients down to the age of two, so we're going to have to get there. But yeah, at launch dance, your question would have been down to the age of six.

Scott Benner 1:29:54
Huge thanks to Rick and Brett for coming on the show. Rick Of course from Dexcom Brett from Omni pod. Another thank you to touched by type one.org for their support of the Juicebox Podcast and for what they're doing for people living with Type One Diabetes. You can check out the Dexcom G six@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box, learn everything you need to know. And get yourself a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod app my omnipod.com forward slash juice box. And of course, and of course touched by type one.org. Head over, see what they're up to. Now I'm gonna put this online, go to sleep, wake up, fly to Atlanta, and tell a roomful of people about being bold with insulin. You know who's gonna be there with me, Jenny Smith. Today's Jenny's birthday. I'm gonna see Jenny The day after her birthday. That's when I'm gonna meet her for the first time in person. Isn't that crazy? If I don't look too horrible. I'll take a picture and send it to you. But if I take that picture, and I think

Bret Christensen 1:30:59
No,

Scott Benner 1:31:01
no, then you're not gonna see Jenny on the day after her birthday. Hope you guys enjoy this. coming next week, part three of she's having a baby. Sam is about ready to burst and I just talked to her the other day. Things have gotten more difficult as the pregnancy has gone on. She's doing well. She's gonna come on and tell you all about it. I just remembered she likes being called Samantha but I don't feel like going back and editing it. So Samantha and good bye.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Pandora - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

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#308 Psyco-glycemia

Cute kitten content

Sara's daughter Adelyn was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes in South Korea while her husband was active duty military. 

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everybody, welcome to Episode 308 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is sponsored by the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. And by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, you can find out more about the Omni pod at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. And that that link, you'll be able to order an absolutely free no obligation demonstration pod that will be sent directly to you. If you'd like to hear more about the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, that link is dexcom.com forward slash juice box. All the links are in the show notes at Juicebox podcast.com. Just in case you can't remember them. I have tried to record this opening six times it has not gone right once so maybe me admitting that out loud will help the seventh chance. Sarah is on the show today to tell us about her daughter's diagnosis. The diagnosis happened in South Korea because the family lived there. Because Sarah's husband is active duty military. This is very interesting to hear about the diagnosis as it happened in South Korea, and how the family quickly got back to the United States. There's some twists and turns along the way and even a kitten. But none of that explains why this episode is called psycho glycemia. This weekend, I'm going to be in Atlanta speaking at the jdrf type one nation event. I think it's sold out I'm sorry. But however, I'm very excited to see those of you who are able to get tickets. Next thing I'm doing is in Wisconsin that still has tickets available. So I'll be in Wisconsin on March 26. It's a Thursday evening, I will be speaking from 5pm until 8:30pm. all about being bold within so I'm going to talk all about the tools, how to use them, get people going in a better direction. Hopefully, you go Arden state.com forward slash events to learn more. Please remember that even though most of this story happens in South Korea, nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. or becoming bold with insulin.

Sara 2:23
My name is Sarah Beth, by trial and I am an active duty spouse My husband is in the army and our daughter adilyn. Who is seven has type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 2:41
Okay, you're about 15 other children. Is that correct?

Sara 2:45
No, I have a total of four daughter.

Scott Benner 2:49
Wow. Did So did you have triplets or two sets?

Sara 2:52
No, no, we actually had two canceled appointments.

Unknown Speaker 2:57
is how that happened.

Scott Benner 2:58
You just talking about free time that we're looking at here.

Unknown Speaker 3:03
Within town,

Unknown Speaker 3:04
that's what happened. Well, I have to tell you.

Scott Benner 3:08
I'm gonna join the military immediately if that's how this works. I've never been drawn to service until I realized that it creates a lonely woman that I can visit once.

Unknown Speaker 3:23
Pretty much that is accurate.

Scott Benner 3:25
Well don't tell the kids that make up something about you wanted to have kids and you really loved the first one and couldn't get enough you'll you'll find a way to get through it. You really, I you imagine that when they get much older Sarah and you're like, you know like a wizard and veteran of life and you're like in your 50s like, Why are there four of us? Like how your father wasn't home a lot. They're gonna have this horrified look on their face for a second. And then Thanksgiving dinner. We'll just go on as normal.

Unknown Speaker 3:53
I'm gonna traumatize them. Yeah,

Scott Benner 3:54
they're gonna picture you in that moment still do. And they're just gonna be like, Oh my god, do you think they still do? Oh, yeah. And you're gonna say why do you think it's a stovetop stuffing? I didn't have time for the

Unknown Speaker 4:08
Yeah. I have time for nothing.

Scott Benner 4:09
Well, Sarah, you're a player. I think that's what we've learned right off the bat and we're gonna get going. So you are stationed or your husband is stationed in South Korea when your daughter's diagnosed.

Sara 4:23
That is correct. We were actually all in South Korea, Korea.

Unknown Speaker 4:28
So when you

Sara 4:31
get orders to go to South Korea, you can do one of two things you can go what they call unaccompanied. And go by yourself. And that usually you are you are going to be there for a year. Or you can go accompanied and bring your family and Jeff and I chose to go as a family because he had actually just returned From a nine month rotation in Korea, so he was gone for nine months. He came home for about four months. And then we went back to Korea as a family.

Scott Benner 5:11
Now, sir, that's what he told you. He wanted you to all come along. So you could be together. He really just didn't want a fifth kid and he thought I can't afford five children. If I go to South Korea and come back a year from now, I know where this is going. Yes. You guys. Yes. Bringing bringing you in the children to South Korea was birth control and your anyway, so you said that's when you choose a deployment? It's with your family? Does that mean more time? Or?

Sara 5:41
Yes. So when you take your family, you pretty much committed to two years

Scott Benner 5:47
while you're over there, except moving cost?

Sara 5:50
Yes. So we went and we had spent a year and Jeff was offered another job, that would be a two year commitment. So in order to take that job, he had to actually extend and do a total of three years in Korea, which we were on board for. And we went with that we decided to come home over the summer after the first full year in Korea, just to visit family. And I didn't notice adilyn her symptoms at that time. But it was immediately after we returned to Korea to do that second year, that, you know, she started having all the basic symptoms.

Unknown Speaker 6:45
And they

Sara 6:47
I took her in to a doctor, and it's very hot, very humid in the summer in Korea, in fact, one of our friends when we first moved there, I said this is the hottest you will ever be and the coldest you will ever be at this duty station.

Scott Benner 7:06
Terrific.

Sara 7:07
Yeah. Right. So um, so it was summer, you know, as we were rounding out summer and ready to go back to school, and I noticed she was urinating a lot. She was losing some way to just all of the basic symptoms that you know, typically show up. So I took her into the doctor. And they thought it was just the, you know, the heat, the humidity was warm, she was drinking more, she would produce more urine. She was growing, she was getting taller, but she was losing weight. So they just thought, you know, push some more. Yeah, yeah, put puts put some more fat in her diet, stuff like that. Um, so then we were on the playground. And adilyn fell off the slide and busted her chin open and had to get some stitches. So we had to take her to a local hospital off post there. And they gave her a form of an antibiotic that she had the stitches. They gave her some antibiotics and injection of it. And she broke out in a rash. And this is right before she was diagnosed maybe two weeks. She, we took her in again, she's at this point. Now she's very frail. She's we're seeing bones where, you know, it's it's,

Scott Benner 8:34
Oh, my gosh,

Sara 8:35
it's significant what she's lost. And mashed up

Scott Benner 8:39
you right there at that at that juncture, when you're like looking at ribs and things like that. Are you saying to yourself, like are you and your husband speaking to each other and saying, look, there's something incredibly wrong with her. Oh, what's the love?

Unknown Speaker 8:53
Yes, I actually had brought up

Sara 8:55
diabetes three times at the doctor's and I know it's that I'm not faulting anyone, because I know, it's something that's often overlooked that, you know, we don't get it right the first time. So it just happened that all of these other things were going on at the same time. That That is why she was overlooked. Yeah. So she broke out in the rash. I took her back to the doctor, I said, you know, something's off. She's at this point not feeling well. And they thought it was the antibiotic, which was typically an antibiotic that they don't give to kids or don't mean he prescribed in the US often, because it is reactive. So they thought that that was part of this antibiotic that she had been given. And then they just said they thought that she had, you know, picked up a virus while she was in the hospital.

Scott Benner 9:55
So we kept being excuses for what you could see right in front of you, but that wasn't leading you to end Like in, like, what was the waiting? Like was was their expectation like, Oh, this is getting better because we've done this thing or this will get better because we've taken this step, or were you at that point just staring and thinking, we're not really doing anything and she's getting worse.

Unknown Speaker 10:14
Right. And so as

Sara 10:18
a couple weeks later, we run into Halloween. And you know, every kid is excited about Halloween. She adilyn did not at this point was so she just wasn't herself. She didn't even want to do the, you know, we lived in these towers, and there were three of them side by side. And multiple floors, like 1213 floors, depending on the building. So lots of apartments, tons of candy. And she ended up just doing our building. And then she went back in and laid on the couch. She didn't want to do the additional two buildings with the other girls and it's totally not like her. And so from Halloween on, she pretty much laid on that couch. She was very lethargic. I finally it was a Saturday morning, and I got up and I said to Jeff, I said I feel like I'm watching her die. Something's not right. And so I called the doctor and said she's very lethargic. And that was the key word that threw everybody off. And they were like, well, if she's lethargic, you have to take her to the hospital.

Unknown Speaker 11:26
So

Sara 11:27
at that time, the hospital on Camp Humphreys wasn't completed. So we had to go drive about 20 minutes up to an Air Force Base, and have her seen at that emergency room. So we took her in and they again in the hospital said they thought it was a virus. And finally, you know, I had stayed home with the other three girls and Jeff had scooped adilyn off the couch because she couldn't even at this point, she wasn't even coherent. She wasn't even doing basic functions like walking. So Jeff scooped her up, took her to the hospital drove her there. She was kind of in and out of consciousness and the car is what Jeff had told me. So he took her in and they just thought again, it was this virus. And I happen to for some reason. I got on my phone and I googled type one diabetes symptoms. And I sent Jeff an article. He reviewed it. And then while the doctor came in and was saying, you know, it's a virus, he said to them, can we please test her for diabetes. And they were hesitant. They said, You know, I don't think that's what this is, but we'll do it. And a few minutes. minutes later, they came back in the room and said you were right. She's a diabetic. So that's how her diagnosis happened. We were taken from the hospital. by ambulance, I had swapped, I had a friend come up and watch the girl so I could go to the emergency room to be with adilyn. And Jeff was going to come home and be with the kids. And I wrote in the ambulance up with her to into Seoul to Samsung hospital there. And that's where she was in the hospital for about a week. We were out of that. Er,

Scott Benner 13:23
so I have a number of questions about that first part. Okay. And it'll give you a chance to regroup. It's a it's a well told story. Thank you. How much of a language barrier is there at the hospital? Do you and your husband speak Korean? A little bit?

Sara 13:40
Just I mean, I could speak very I could I could get by at the market is basically what I do. I there is a language barrier. But Koreans are very good at English. They just don't. It's like any culture. You know, if we go to another country, if I go to France, I'm not going to even if I was fluent in French, I'm going to be hesitant to actually use it in conversation. So I think that was the piece because they everybody that I

Unknown Speaker 14:12
worked with.

Unknown Speaker 14:14
They would

Sara 14:16
you're assigned a translator. So I had someone that they would speak in Korean because I mean, that's their language of comfort and they the translator would translate it for me

Scott Benner 14:31
at work

Sara 14:33
no not at well. So at at work for Jeff, is that what you're asking?

Scott Benner 14:38
I just I got lost for a second there because you said you were assigned to translate or just in your regular life or

Unknown Speaker 14:44
no at the hospital

Scott Benner 14:45
in the hospital. I'm sorry. Yeah, there was just that one piece that I missed. So okay, all right. So no, no, please don't be sorry. So there's I'm sure it was my fault. You don't realize that while you're talking I'm also trying to formulate what we're gonna say next. Once in a while I drift away and I'm Like, Oh, you know what I'm going to ask about. And then I started thinking about this South Korean zombie movie that I really liked. And I was like, I wonder how I can work this into the conversation, which is meaningless. And then I missed a key key thing that you said there. Anyway, I apologize. So there's a, there's a translator at the hospital. And that though, that makes total sense, even though you feel like the hospital staff could have probably spoken to you.

Sara 15:23
They actually, there was a few moments where, you know, you're assigned a translator, and they come into the room when you have like education classes, or your team of doctors comes in, and there would be a few moments where maybe she was running behind. And they would speak to me in English. But I think they just weren't comfortable.

Scott Benner 15:41
Yeah, one thing either I would have met.

Unknown Speaker 15:43
Yeah,

Sara 15:44
yeah. So it was, they could do it. And they were very good at it. They're the team that I had. Would you know, after the meeting, they would say thank you, you know, for being so good about my English, they would always think that their English was poor. And it was, I mean, it was phenomenal. In my opinion. They would did very well, I could understand everything.

Scott Benner 16:08
I have to say, you know, in your note, you say that her eidolons Awan see at the time she was diagnosed with 17%. I'm fairly comfortable saying if you don't Google that article and push your husband, she probably doesn't make it if they send her out of that hospital again, telling her that it's that it's something else, especially with your description of her.

Sara 16:28
Yes, she I don't think she would have made it either. I really do think that it was something I don't know what it was about that moment where I just happen to pick up my phone and say, I really think we're missing something. And I asked about this. And it just was something that was you know, I remember we went on a trip around right before she was diagnosed, I took her to Everland which is kind of like a Korean Disney Land. And it was maybe maybe 40 minutes to an hour trip and adilyn we had to stop twice there and twice on the way home for her to use the restroom. She just couldn't. I mean, in 40 minutes, she had to go twice. It was just something he was frequently urinating. It was not something with off, you know,

Scott Benner 17:17
and not drinking that much.

Sara 17:19
No, I mean, he was he was definitely chugging water. But it was it was, you know it. There was just so many things that were off it and she had all of those key symptoms. And then when we started I mean, I could see her full pelvis by the time that we took her in. So it was like she is this is not right. This is not healthy. Something's wrong. Do you have a feeling for how much weight she lost during the time it took you to kind of figure this all out? When she was taken to Samsung. I think they weighed her in and she was under 40 pounds. She was about 3837 meaty. Right now she's well over 50. So she it was it was a lot of weight.

Scott Benner 18:01
Yeah. And you said and she was getting taller. So it probably even looked.

Sara 18:06
Yeah, it was not. It was not good. I mean, I even had it was to the point that I was taking pictures of her just to have it, you know? So I could compare how much Oh, I see. Yeah, of course, she was losing just the amount of bone that was coming through.

Scott Benner 18:23
I remember Arden gaining about two pounds in the first 24 hours. She was on insulin. Yeah, because she was in that scenario. So she's much younger. But you know, she only weighed 19 pounds prior to us. figuring it out. By the time we figured out she was like 17. And then she put the two pounds like as soon as it's like he injected the insulin in her and she just you know, the weight went back on her which was this really magical. Wow. But yeah, she looked like I said on the podcast recently, like our Arden looked like a, like a runway model with a heroin problem. Like she was really, he had gotten to that like gone. thing. And it is funny because as you were describing, and I thought I did all the same things you did, you're like, well, there's reasons for this. Like everything that happened, you were like, Oh, I can see why this would happen. Instead of just thinking, you know, this isn't normal. And let's go to a hospital and banging on the door until someone fixes it. Like, why would we leave? You know what I mean? Like why would I ever walk away until there was a actual answer found? But it's just the process. It's how it goes and you know, it really is. It shows you how what happens next to most people happens right and you're gonna talk about it after a while but like you know, you doctors don't tell you everything you go home It doesn't seem right. And you still just swallow. You know what I mean? You just swallow it you just like okay, sure, you know, I'll inject the insulin and then eat right away and now I see my blood sugar spike right up. Well, they said it's okay. I saw someone online say the other day like, my blood sugar goes to like 280 but then it comes back and the doctor says that's what it's supposed The dude and the right and the person saying, I don't feel like that's right. But how do I trust myself? You know what I mean? Like and how do you trust yourself during the diagnosis when you're like, hey, this really seems like diabetes like no, no, that's a virus. Yeah, you know, you just go Okay, fine, Iris. Thanks. And can you imagine and I don't want you to, but I guess you know, for the sake of the conversation. Imagine had you not followed your instincts there and your daughter passed away?

Unknown Speaker 20:29
Yeah. Although I think about it often.

Scott Benner 20:31
Yeah, absolutely. Your husband owes you huge. And seriously, I'm seriously one of the kids you're way ahead in the marriage right now. Whether you realize that you could probably screw like three major things up. I don't even think he could say anything. Look at it. I'm keeping score over here. So that's how I know but yeah, you're you're way ahead. Just so you know, you could probably stop cleaning. I'm gonna say for six months. You know if the cleaning something you do you want to cheat once I think you get away with it. What do you think of that?

Unknown Speaker 21:03
I like it.

Scott Benner 21:04
You rollback me like a Jeff. Remember the time I save the kid? We're gonna let this go.

Sara 21:09
probably throw that out every once in a while.

Scott Benner 21:13
could at least get you out of like some mundane task you don't want to do right? Like, why doesn't somebody who didn't save adilyn come over here and pick up these toys. Right. So I would roll? I really wouldn't. But it seems like so much fun to think about it that way to me, my brain gets a little off track. I I don't want to apologize for it, because I like how I am. But I was online the other day and someone said something to me. And I responded in a way that I thought was fun. And then someone came on and said like, Man, you're not right. And I was like No, it's funny, like, don't you? And then I looked at I was like yeah, I don't see anyone else answer things like this like this. There is something wrong with me. But in a delightful way. So who cares? Right? All right. Anyway, you. So you're at the Samsung Medical Center. All this is going on? How long? Did they keep you there? And by the way, is everything named Samsung in Korea. Okay, let's go to my omnipod.com forward slash juice box and find out what we see my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box? Well, I see that I can request a free experience kit at that very web address. So if you're using MDI, and you're thinking about pumping, or if you have a pump, and you're dreaming about what it might be like to be tubeless Oh, did you not know, the Omni pod has no tubing that you won't be connected to a wired controller something that you'll have to clip to your belt or your bra or hiding your pants? or disconnect disconnected to take a shower or go swimming or to play sports? Wait a minute, you didn't know that. Now you do. The next step is to get a demo sent to your house a free pot experience kit. They're just going to send it to you. Now don't worry, it's not functioning, right. It's a non functioning, but you can try it on and wear it. And I think you very well might learn what I did when I wore my free pot experience. Get it after it's on for a few minutes. You just don't notice it's there anymore. And next thing you know, you're going about your life. So whether or not you're a person living with Type One Diabetes, with a parent or caregiver of someone who does, you owe it to yourself to check out the Omni pod. It's my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box get the absolutely free pod experience kit sent to your house, there's no obligation, they're not gonna hound you if you try to just check it out. can't hurt. The Omni pod is one half of the irreplaceable technology that my daughter uses. You know what the other half is. In case you couldn't guess it was the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. I'm going to kind of keep going here with my URL trend URL, the URL URL dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Now when you get there, you're going to find out everything you need to know about the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. I'll tell you a little bit about it. Zero finger sticks, glucose readings that are right on your smart device Android or Apple customizable alerts and alarms the ability to share your data with someone else that could mean your sister in Poughkeepsie, or coming your child across the street at a playdate. But someone with Type One Diabetes, who's wearing a Dexcom g six can share their data with a loved one or friend. I'm not even gonna edit that out. That's my daughter's right there. We have a customized alarm set at 120 means my daughter's blood sugar has just drifted above 120. We're going to take care of that right now with some insulin that will avoid a high blood sugar that later will require a ton of insulin that will probably cause a low blood sugar later. Now your results may vary. Right, these are hours. But the truth is, knowing the speed and direction of your blood sugar is at the core of how you make good decisions with insulin dexcom.com forward slash juice box or the links in your show notes, or Juicebox podcast.com. I cannot believe that thing beat right then, and I wove it into the ad. I'm a genius. Alright, let's get back to the show.

Sara 25:38
Yeah, well, and I shouldn't say everything. But Samsung has a very big influence. I mean, they have everything. Air Conditioners like anything. Samsung. So

Scott Benner 25:50
I love you. I'm looking at one right now to be perfect.

Sara 25:53
Yeah, so we were at Samsung for about a week.

Scott Benner 26:00
Yeah, I think it was just maybe just shy of a week. Do you think that's because of how far along she was? Or also because they don't see type one that often.

Sara 26:10
So from my understanding, they don't see type one that often. I don't know if it's genetics. I don't know. I again, this is something that I was told. I'm not sure how accurate that statement is. But I don't think that it's as predominant as it is in the US. So, you know, they kind of in the first week, it was

Unknown Speaker 26:34
it was a very

Sara 26:37
strong learning curve.

Unknown Speaker 26:41
they

Sara 26:42
first started talking about you know, I had tons of questions, obviously. And you know, you've even mentioned it on a few of the podcasts where you're almost in like a haze. So everything's being thrown at you all this information, then you have the language barrier, as well and the translator and it's, I felt like I was drowning, like I felt like I was underwater. And then the translator would speak and my head would pop up and I could kind of understand that I go back underwater while they were speaking. So it was it was very, it was hard for a while. But I finally think I got a grasp. And I felt comfortable going home, I guess. But while we were at the hospital, the doctor that I had seen at Humphreys before we had left. She was a pediatrician there. She actually personally called me. Now I don't know how she found out that we were at the hospital. I'm not sure if the emergency room reported that we you know, this was all going on. But she personally called me while we were at Samsung, and she talked to me for maybe an hour and said, I really feel like you should pursue going back to the States. And so it was with her it was really hurt because I hadn't even thought that far ahead at that point. You know, I was still trying to understand injections and finger pokes and all of that, you know basic stuff. Yeah. We were still trying to figure out her Tarceva and you know if she was on Nova rapid at that time, and so like all of those ratios and everything we were there was still a lot going on. So

it wasn't until I got back home that

she asked to see me in her office with adalind. She wanted an immediate follow up. And that's where all of the extra work. We're going back to the States. But I'm getting ahead of myself. I guess what I meant to say is while we were in the hospital, the the staff started talking about pumps, insulin pumps, CGM, things like that. And I know that

Unknown Speaker 29:06
the specs

Sara 29:08
on the equipment in Korea don't match us specs.

Unknown Speaker 29:12
So

Sara 29:14
it was also I think, an insurance issue. Maybe I'm not exactly sure. Because in the States, try care pays for the the supplies, but over there, everything is out of pocket. So I remember they showed me a CGM. That was huge. It looked like a an old pager almost. And they were like, Well, you could this is, you know, kind of explaining it to me and how it worked and we could get it.

Unknown Speaker 29:42
But it was

Sara 29:45
the day following my phone call with a pediatrician. I said, I don't know if we're going back to the states or not. And so they kind of said, Well, I would advise that you, you know, see what's going to happen and then come back if you're going To stay and get the the equipment versus buying it because they were the ones that told me it doesn't meet us standard so it won't operate there.

Scott Benner 30:09
And so when you're in the hospital still, and you described kind of drifting away, do you recall? Did you just go to a numb place? Where were you? overwhelmed? it? Was it like being in math class and not understanding? Was it like, were you? Were you daydreaming about this not happening? Were you thinking about worse things? Do you remember what happens in that space? You may not.

Sara 30:38
I do remember. Just I, I just kept thinking, Why her? Why adilyn? Why did this happen to us? So it was more of a you know, like, I really struggled with it. I remember I cried so much that adilyn I remember asking the nurse the first day that she came in and gave her an injection before she ate breakfast because they had her fast. So that they could, I guess, you know, do some testing, monitor her stuff like that. So by the next day, after we had, we went left to the ER went to Samsung that whole entire time overnight, they were fasting her and she just kept waking up and she was crying. She was so hungry. Finally, they sedated her so that they could give her some potassium. Because you know, that burns going in. So they tried to give it to her before we left the ER, but it just she was screaming in pain. So they sedated her and they gave her the potassium. And that helped her get through the night. But by the time the next morning came, she was starving. So they came in to give her her insulin. And I remember I just looked at the nurse and I was crying. And I said, so I have to do this to her for the rest of her life. And Adam and Adam looked at me and she was like, Mom, why are you crying? You know, she just I think she had seen me cry so much in that short time. That it was like, What is wrong with you?

Scott Benner 32:06
Like this lady? Oh, yeah, I need someone here and you got to really help me. I'm six and I'm hungry. And none of these people speak English. And I really would love someone here was on Alan's team, you know, they midnight here. I think it's a listen, I mean, it's an adage of parenting, right? Here's a line between how much do you show them? And how much do you Buck up and do what you're supposed to do. And I'm a fan of somewhere in the middle. I like my kids to know, I'm a real person. Without them feeling the stress and anxiety of the things that I worry about, you know, I think about, um, you know, bills or, or you know, how you're going to pay for college, that kind of stuff. And I want my son, for instance, to know that this, you know, the college he's going to, it's not easy for us to pay for. And at the same time, I don't want him getting up every morning and thinking, Oh, I better not screw this up. Because my parents are paying a lot of money. I want him somewhere in the middle. You know, I like that your daughter sees that you care about her. But you got to stop short of when she thinks Oh God, I gotta grab one of these other adults and see if they'll say this woman just lost it. She's probably, you know, I mean, my dad has gotten her pregnant so many times that he's probably tired, you know, and, and what are we gonna do? I listen, I cried during the, during the first kind of like, lesson from a nurse about counting carbs, and then figuring out how much insulin to use during the ratio, like I just fell apart. And my wife was like, Cognizant enough to send the nurse out of the room just to give him a minute. He appears not to understand seventh grade math, so let's get him out. You know, like, and, and I'm gonna need this here, because he's the guy that stays with the kids. You know, so she cleared the room out. She's like, what's wrong? I'm like, I'm gonna kill her. Like, I'm gonna make a mistake with this math and I'm just gonna kill her. And then what am I gonna do? How am I gonna turn to you and say, hey, look what I did. You know, we met each other when we were kids. And we have these two children in this house and everything was going great. And then she got diabetes, and then fast forward to me killing her. You know, like, I really, you don't keep you're a nice person. You don't keep score in your head. But I know for a fact if I kill one of my kids, my wife's bailing on me. Yeah, you know, aside of the part where I would really like Arden to stay alive. I you know, but I've always had that thought before diabetes, like even driving in the car with my son when he was little. I thought I cannot have an accident hurt this kid. She's just a girl. I married like, like, you know what I mean? Like when it comes down to picking if I kill him, she's gonna leave. Like, why would she not and I really To be honest, she pays a lot of the bills. So I was like, it really I only kept my son alive to get the electric bill paid is what I'm saying. That was my was my key focus of being a stay at home parent. I wish that you know,

Sara 34:50
anyway, I do remember leaving the hospital I basically I wagered with these with the staff like You know, they were first they were going to release us the night before. And traffic in to Seoul is horrific, like highway one. It's I think six lanes per side, maybe eight. I can't remember. But, you know, it's bumper to bumper traffic and especially rush hour. So I'm thinking, I'm going to have this kid in the car. And how do I feed her? How do I give her an injection on the way home? So I just basically said, Can I leave? Saturday? Morning?

Scott Benner 35:36
There's no one outside? Well, you know, I looked while we were talking the population of South Korea's 51 million people. Most of them are in Seoul. And per Emperor perspective, there are 320 9 million people in the US and South Korea, South Korea is you know, not seven times, you know, larger than the US it's, there's there's a lot of people jammed into a very tiny space. Mm hmm. Did you ever listen to the podcast while you were there?

Unknown Speaker 36:05
I did not actually.

Scott Benner 36:08
So you thought I was meeting the people who downloaded it from South Korea, but apparently Yeah, I'm sure I

Sara 36:14
know. But at the time, I didn't have a diabetic while we were over there. I mean, it was, by the time adilyn was diagnosed November 3, we left country, December 17. That is something that

does not typically happen.

Unknown Speaker 36:31
And that was

Sara 36:33
a lot to do with our doctor being on board. Jeff's chain of command being very supportive. And they would check on things for us. I mean, it was, we were getting pushed through the system very quickly, which is this is not typical.

Scott Benner 36:51
So when you get home, I'm assuming you you don't have a home in the US at that point, did you? You're not it's not like yours a house at home somewhere that you're renting or family members living you go to another base, is that correct? Um,

Sara 37:06
so before we left, they, Jeff was getting in contact with his branch manager. And they basically give you an assignment before you leave, you have to have a place to go, you know, where you're headed, and they were in you, when a child or anyone I guess I shouldn't just say a child, but when someone in your family, if your active duty service member

Unknown Speaker 37:31
has a some form

Sara 37:34
of disablement or disability or, you know, disease, you, you qualify for what's called efmp, which is an exceptional family member program. So adilyn is now an efmp qualified member of our family and so that basically, it's an identifier on Jeff's paper paperwork that says, you know, we can, because of that, we can only go to certain places now.

Unknown Speaker 38:09
So,

Sara 38:11
they, they basically give you options that has Cara for her, okay. So they gave him a list. And I had done a little bit of research. Before I had left. My good friend Kathy was helping me kind of see where we possibilities of places we could go and where care was. And I had in my mind that I wanted to come back to Fort Bragg. We were here before we left for Korea. And they offered us a couple of places. And I said to Jeff, you know, I would really like to get back to Fort Bragg because I had already I have a support system here. I had left friends I was familiar with the area. So I knew going into this newly diagnosed that I needed that. So he got with his branch manager and asked if there was anything available here, which is not like my husband at all. We usually go wherever the job is we're not very selective

Unknown Speaker 39:11
with that, so

Sara 39:14
he he basically asked, and they they assigned him here. So that's how we ended up back here. But when we left Korea, Jeff and I are both from Michigan so we had stored like his truck, things like that at our parents homes in Michigan. So we took a direct flight out of Seoul into Detroit picked up our belongings and then headed down to North Carolina.

Scott Benner 39:42
Wow, that's a lot all while not really understanding diabetes at this point and trying to correct Yeah, together. Yeah, I have a lot of a lot of feeling for you because I was not good at even getting in the car and going to like the grocery store without pre planning for like two hours before I would take art now. I'd be like getting your blood sugar in the Exactly. place where I thought it'll stay here we can get across, right? You don't mean like, if you would have told me to get in the car in in Detroit and drive to North Carolina, then like maybe in a couple of years,

Sara 40:11
I think you know, the car trip down with a lot easier than the 16 hour plane ride back. That was terrifying.

Scott Benner 40:19
This is a plane make you feel trapped. Like if something happens, we're stuck on

Sara 40:23
Oh, I was so worried. I remember when we went to Korea that someone on the plane had some sort of medical emergency and they, you know, got on the intercom and asked for any medical providers that they could come up to whatever row seat, whatever, you know. And so I just I kept thinking, what if that happens to us? Yeah, I have to be very aware of where my child is what row we're in what seat? We're in.

Scott Benner 40:48
You overthought all of that? Yeah. Because you really did overthink all because now you know, I mean, you would fly now and it wouldn't be such a big deal. Right?

Unknown Speaker 40:55
Right.

Scott Benner 40:55
Absolutely. Yeah. Back then, without the tools, it really Oh,

Sara 40:58
yeah. And I mean, I had like a year supply of insulin. I really did. I my pediatrician, before we left at Humphreys told me we you know, we had a follow up with Samsung about a month after diagnosis. So it was beginning of December. They wanted to see her back. So I think it maybe was like the first week of December, we were up there. And before we went the pediatrician said, make sure that they give you a three month supply of insulin before you get on the plane. Because you know, there will be a gap between your care that you know, stablishing a doctor or things like that. So I went and I asked for three months supply, but they handed me you know, the pens come in those boxes where there's multiple pins in a box, and they handed me like three or four boxes. And so I had tons of insulin, that I'm walking on a plane, I'm thinking how am I going to keep this cold? You know what happened, Willie, let me on the plane with this. I have all these needles in my bag. You know, it was just,

Unknown Speaker 42:01
it was a lot

Scott Benner 42:04
going on? Not a lot of questions. Yeah. I hear you. I really do. I I so you make it home. There's actually great episodes in the podcast that people who are like really world travelers with diabetes, and they talk about how, with a tiny bit of pre planning and just understanding things a little bit how easy it really is. It's not

Sara 42:23
much yeah. Now I could get back on the plane and I would feel completely comfortable.

Scott Benner 42:28
Yeah, yeah, no, it's, uh, I know how to. I think I could go anywhere at this point. Seriously, like, but But back then. Like I said, I couldn't leave the house. So she you get home in? Right? Well, even that I didn't realize just now that sucks. Like you. You had to come home like right before Christmas. So do you celebrate your and so you're like, isn't that interesting? The leap. I made them like you're in the army and you're from Michigan. You're Christian. And so I wish I could. I wish you could have watched the synopsis make connections in my head. I was like, Oh, it's comfortable to say. And now that I said out loud, it's less comfortable. But that is how my brain works. In case you're wondering, I just let go very quickly push it for kids. No. So it just like not that quick succession like that. Anyway. So you're rolling in stateside just a couple of days before Christmas. Now I have a tiny bit of experience, but this rush, because one year we build a house. And we bought this tiny little rancher and it was junk. And the plan was always to knock it over and started, you know, because the land was what we wanted. And rd gets diagnosed, you know, right is we're thinking of like doing the work. So no lie. We had a construction person. They're moving things around, like walls and support inside of our home to facilitate the next step of the process. Okay, and one of the things we had done to get ready for the construction was we had the front stairs to our house and the sidewalk completely taken out. And the dorm moved to another position. And then Arden was diagnosed for years. My children had to jump out the front door to go to school. Arden was diagnosed, and then everything stopped while diabetes, you know. So anyway, we finally get our house built many, many years later, Arden was diagnosed in 2006. And we built our house in 2012. So for six years, I was the person in town that didn't have a sidewalk out front door didn't line up with any sort of pathway and the pizza guy would just like roll through the front yard, you know, I mean, like it was all it was like it was horrible. And we built this house, but we couldn't afford to build it and to relocate. So it's a long story but we had gotten the money all the sudden out of nowhere for the construction that that money did not matter. clewd relocation, and we were screwed, we were going to have to skip it and not do it. I said to my wife on the Kelly, there is no way we are not building this house. And so one day I called her at work. And I said, this weekend, we're going to go and buy a huge travel trailer and park it in the backyard. And we're going to live in it during the construction because we can put $1,000 down on it, pay some small payment a month on it and sell it right away when we're finished with it. And there's a whole story of what it's like to live in a trailer with a dog and two children and diabetes for six months. But he didn't do it. Okay, we did it. Yeah. Except the construction that of course, you know, I know now always takes longer than you expect. And so we are the last six weeks in that trailer, it's freezing outside, and those things are not made for the weather. We have like electric heaters going like as a fire hazard. I'm sure you know, we'd get up in the morning, I could hear my wife getting that tiny little shower and she was like, ah, like in and out like two seconds or whatever is free everything right? But we'll move back into the house about 10 days before Christmas. And rush to try to make a real Christmas was like horrible. And I wonder if that happened to you? Did you get home like because I'm you're you seem like a really good mom, like did you get home get back into North Carolina? What's your next thought? I have to make a Christmas for these people like

Sara 46:23
so it's funny that you bring this up because I had planned, you know some of the girls gifts and things like that. And I actually ended up returning them all. And I started ordering things online and sending them to my mother in law's house. My my parents, what they call snowbirds. So they leave Michigan if they stay in Michigan for six months and live in Florida for six months, so they had already headed down to Florida. We actually have a travel trailer that we store at their house. So we had to go over there and pick up the travel trailer. But we ended up staying at Jeff's parents house and doing Christmas there. So she already had it set up. And you know, I'm blessed with an amazing mother in law. And so she did like she had, I think it sparked happiness that we were coming back. And she was going to have Christmas with all of us, you know, so it was a big thing. All of us were at my mother in law's for Christmas. So myself, Jeff, the girls, his sister Jamie, her husband, their children. So it was a big thing we did. They always have a family Christmas party. So we had to go to that. So it wasn't it was very felt very normal. But I was able to step into that. Now if I had to

Scott Benner 47:47
start from you know,

Sara 47:48
yeah, it would have been completely different.

Scott Benner 47:51
Yeah, well, she owes you two. I mean, four kids get what I mean, like at some point, she must even call Jeff at some point. But like, he cut that girl a break. Like, you know, you just you know, you kept plugging away. No, there's no pun in there at all. And you you know, I think she owes you is what I'm saying. Like seriously for kids. She's gonna listen to this. At some point, this woman really came through for you with the grandchild. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 48:11
I think I think

Sara 48:12
she knew that it was something on my mind that it was I was trying to still make it normal. So she just she was willing to. And Carol goes overboard at Christmas. There's no, there's no way around it. So it was it was nice that she was already set up. And we were good. We were taken care of

Scott Benner 48:31
right. So eventually, then you end up back at Bragg where you're at now. Right? You're speaking to me from from there. And you I'm assuming settle into a life of managing diabetes. And how did you find it to be in the beginning?

Sara 48:46
So coming back, we have this funny little story that we came back to Fort Bragg again, because we came right back to the neighborhood we lived in before. And in fact, we rented a home and our neighbors to that home. Were actually at the time trying to sell the house we're in right now. And so they weren't the movement cycle had already come and gone and it was sitting empty. So I contacted them because we're friends and I said, No, Hannah, would you be willing to rent the home to us? And because she knew us. She was like Absolutely. Anything I can do to help you guys because I mean, again, we were friends. She understood what was going on. We were communicating from Korea at that point. Once we found out we were coming back to Fort Bragg so I we actually are living in the house next door to the house we rented before. So when we moved back, I would have to like you know, the girls were in a very family friendly community and lots of children, lots of outside play. So when they were like riding their bikes, for example, and the kids had used the bathroom they would like Jump off their bikes and run to the old house and Jeff and I would have to sit outside for like the first month and scream at them not.

Unknown Speaker 50:09
And they,

Sara 50:10
they would have to like it, the light bulb will go off and they'd be like, Oh, that's right. We live in this house now, and would come in. But we also with another reason why we chose to come back is my best friend actually lives across the street. And another peaceful piece to this is that they're starting to hear her cat right now. I'm not sure why she's yelling.

Scott Benner 50:35
But I genuinely thought one of your children had fallen in the note

Unknown Speaker 50:40
that the cat actually

Sara 50:42
Yes, it's adalind cat. We had to get a cat that was at ease. Like, you know, the moment of, Hey, I have diabetes. You're gonna sympathize with me and get me a cat, which I'm allergic to. She was able to pull that

Scott Benner 50:55
off at six.

Sara 50:56
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, while still in the hospital, Jeff came home with a cat. The kid

Scott Benner 51:02
right? I need a cat when she saw you guys crying?

Unknown Speaker 51:06
Uh, yeah, pretty much. how that went down. So yeah,

Scott Benner 51:10
anyone listening? 810 20 years from now don't marry this girl. She's got a plan. It I mean, she's like, Look, they look sad. She got her list. She's like, what's at the top of my six year old list?

Unknown Speaker 51:20
Ooh, Cat, cat.

Scott Benner 51:22
Mom's logic. Whatever.

Unknown Speaker 51:24
Doesn't matter.

Scott Benner 51:26
Wait a minute. Did you fly from Korea with a cat? You didn't write?

Sara 51:28
Oh, yes, I did. Also, yes. Oh, yeah. a kitten. And I mean, she was just a kitten. She would just, you know, was old enough to get her rabies shot and things like that. I mean, she screeched the entire way. We were those people. It was awful.

Scott Benner 51:45
Second, what's Jeff job in the military? Is he a test dummy? How did he come through with that? And

Sara 51:51
Jeff is an aviation officer. So he he flies

Scott Benner 51:56
sounds like he's got a heart made out of putting that kid said cat and he ran right? Oh, yeah. Well, it was more me. She had asked for it. And there was this like adoption. They it just all lined up the stars were all aligned. And we ended up with this cat. I put you back in that scenario right now the person you are today that kid goes I want a cat. You look right at it and go, I don't care. And then that's the next. Right

Sara 52:18
now. She can't pull that on me anymore. It was just that weak

Scott Benner 52:20
moment. She blew all of her currency on that cat. She doesn't realize cuz she's so little. But that was the overreach there. She doesn't know. Yeah, well, whatever. Good. Now she can live I swear I wish you guys could all like, my default is no. You like if my children are like, Hey, Dad, the house is on fire. Should we go outside to go? No. And then we think about it. I say everything I started. No. And if you get me to Yes, huge win for you. I would never my son said he was in school the other day. And some kid was like, Hey, we should just go do this. And my my kids, like my dad won't pay for that. And and he's like, just you know, you have a card. Like, let's just do it. Like he's got like his, you know, his bank card. And my son was like, Oh my god, no. Like, he'll drive up here and take me out of school over over $50 you have no idea. Like, I can't do that. And I was like, proud. I was like, that's right. When Arden goes clothes shopping, she picks out three outfits. And as she's heading to the register, she stops and puts one back. Am I Oh, my wife goes. I feel bad. Like you've made her feel bad about money. I'm like, I see that exactly. The opposite is you but okay. Yeah, I see that as shit her being careful with what she's spending anyway. Yeah, your kid wouldn't I got a cat. If she was my daughter. I would have actually laughed at her. I would have like pulled people into the room but like, Hey, guys, Everybody listen to this story. My daughter thinks just because she has diabetes. Oh my God, that's delightful. You're a pushover. I like you. Okay. So we're home. And and and we you know,

Sara 53:53
we moved in next door to or across the street from my best friend who they actually have their nephew is a type one diabetic. So it was it was it was a relief for me because they were aware already how to you know, manage Addy in a sense, you know that they they understood it most people don't understand and you know, on the on that on the level that you need them to.

So yeah, it was it was extremely

it wasn't as difficult as what I thought it was going to be.

Scott Benner 54:28
And and you using a meter or pens or palm the CGM. What did you settle into when you got?

Sara 54:34
Yeah, so I had, she was using a meter. She's getting finger pokes. And I mean, it was to the point that I was so nervous with everything that was going on. I mean, just in that one month time span of, you know, we're in another country. We're getting on a plane. We're taking this huge car trip like we're moving to your house. So it felt like I was I was testing her probably every two hours, her poor little fingertips were just right.

Unknown Speaker 54:59
All.

Sara 55:01
By the time that we ended up getting a CGM, we came to North Carolina and on pote, you usually go on post to be seen for your health care, but they were over strength. So they refer you off post when you can see a medical provider that takes accepts try care. So I found a really reputable pediatrician, and then had to go in to get a referral for a pediatric endocrinologist. So they, at first, thankfully, our pediatrician, she, her best friend's daughter is a type one. So she's also aware at this point. So that was super helpful. And she had come to, you know, in the first meeting with her, and, you know, evaluating adilyn was saying, you know, I think you should go to UNC, which we had gone to UNC before, when we were stationed here for my second daughter, Kenzie needed to go to some specialty care up there. And I knew it was quite a drive, you know, about an hour, hour and a half to the main campus. So I you know, at this point, now, I'm like, Well, I don't want to be that far away from the doctor. So I said to her, you know, like I said, earlier, I had done minimal research on whether there was care here for add on or not. So I knew that there was a doctor here in the immediate, like Fayetteville area. So I said, Can I see the doctor at Cape Fear? And she, you know, was kind of like, yeah, sure, you know, but I, she did say, I want you to know, that if anything happens to adilyn, and you have to take her to the hospital, I want you to go direct to UNC, if possible. So I said, Okay, and flash forward, I go to adalind first visit here at Cape Fear for the endocrinologist and the doctor, the doctor was fine. It's just she's the only doctor in our area. She's the only pediatric endocrinologist for all of the

Unknown Speaker 57:20
Fayetteville area

Scott Benner 57:22
kids in every person that needs her. Yeah.

Sara 57:24
So I mean, she was I remember the first visit, she was very, very helpful in getting us a CGM. She said, you need this. And, you know, I come in and saying, Can I have it? I, you know, I'm finger poking her every two hours, because I'm uncomfortable. And she said, you know, you need it. So she got us that very quickly, but I do remember, you know, obviously, it's all new and uncomfortable. And, you know, I didn't understand it. And she said, if there's a video to how to put it on how to, you can watch the video, if you have any problems. She kind of I don't want to paint her in a poor light. But she said, I'm just too busy. You're not going to be able to come in here and see me if you have any problems with it. I can't make time for that.

Scott Benner 58:12
Figure it out.

Sara 58:13
And yeah, and so I I just remember standing there like, okay, and she had adalind ha once he had by the time from diagnosis, she was 17%. The month later, when we went back at the follow up in Korea, she was like nine something. And then we got back to Fort Bragg Sorry, I'm like losing my mind. We got back to Fort Bragg and that first visit her ha once he was like, 8% Okay. And so she was she was declining, and that was great. But I had in my mind, you know, we were Jeff. Jeff is very research based. So he was watching some like, like YouTube channel on diabetes, and like how they were doing it. And, you know, so I was aware of what a

quote unquote good ha one C was.

And I'm a perfectionist, so I was like, we're gonna get her there. I want her to be in a really good range. So I remember I walked into that first appointment, and I was expecting everything to get changed. I just thought

Scott Benner 59:21
I knew what that's not five and a half. So let's make some adjustments now.

Sara 59:26
Right and and I was saying, you know, there were so many times where I mean, I was finger poking her so I didn't get the the graphs. I didn't get the arrows, the number like you get with her Dexcom now, but I knew well enough that I was like, Why is she going up to 300 every time she eats and you're telling me that you want her in this tighter range. And, you know, when we left Korea to be on the safe side, they told me don't ever let her you know go under. I can't remember what number they said. But they were basically telling me the 200 Mark was it Good target, right keeper around 150 200. That's great. And then when I went into this appointment, I just knew something was off. Because, again, we're already my husband's watching all this stuff on how to figure out addys disease. And I'm seeing all this, you know, all these other success stories, and I'm like, Okay, so this isn't right, something's off. And I expected her to help me change it. But she kind of just said, You're doing great. I'm not changing anything. See you in three months. And I remember I walked out and I was like, this doesn't feel right. Something is you know, I know she can do better. And I am still not comfortable. So we get to CGM, and I ended up. I was doing I was on Facebook or something. I was on a page. And your podcast was suggested. And so I just decided, you know, I'd never listened to podcasts before. So I was like, Alright, I'll give it a whirl. And so listening to some of the stories that you had featured on the podcast, it's where you started talking about Pre-Bolus. I had never even been told to Pre-Bolus just that, in and of itself was brought down catalanes stuff I kept could keep her in a better range. She wasn't spiking to 300 with her food. You know, it was I was told give her the insulin Letteri. And then she'll come back down, like you had mentioned earlier. And I knew it wasn't right. So I finally called our pediatrician back and said, Hey, can you can I go to UNC? I'll, I'll do that. I'm going to I need to make a change. I don't, this isn't a good fit for us.

Scott Benner 1:01:42
So worth the ride.

Sara 1:01:44
Right. And so she gave us the referral. And now we're at UNC. And between the information I've received from the podcast, and the doctor, the team of doctors, she's doing really, really well.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
Great. What is well, where were you? Where have you gotten to? Are you? Okay?

Sara 1:02:02
Um, so her next appointment is in October 2, but the last appointment her a one C was 5.7.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:11
License. You did it? Yeah, I did it. Yeah.

Sara 1:02:14
I mean, it. I don't know if I could do it without the CGM. And I don't know if I could do it if I would have stayed where I was. and accepted. Okay, I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't. We're not gonna make any changes. Everything's great. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:27
Yeah. They said it was okay. So it's okay. You just have to trust yourself at some point. I mean, honestly, you retold you know, you basically told me a story about seeing how sick your daughter was, and pushing through and getting them to test her for diabetes. And then you saw that what you thought, you know, what they were telling you was right about her care. didn't look right, you push through. And, you know, that worked out as well. So I say trust your gut. I say it all the time. Actually. It's a big part of this. Is that, you know, is that idea that when you see something that doesn't make sense, you should say something you should do something can't just stand still and go. This doesn't seem right. I hope this doesn't hit me. Oh, look, it hit me. I can't believe that, you know, like, it's just yeah, gotta move, you got to do something. And you did it. That's really cool. I mean, I'm really, it's very encouraging for me to hear you say that. Because, you know, I get everyone's notes and letters, and, you know, messages and people are in different variations of this process. And at any point along the line, if you give up you'll get stuck right where you are, and then eventually you'll drift backwards. So you have to push through till you get to the point where it's just like, it's easy now. And and, of course, I don't mean easy, like, easy. I just mean, like, it's, it's old hat like you do this thing and you get the blood sugar you expect. Like that, that kind of stuff. And when it goes wrong, you know, troubleshoot it, and and you figure it out.

Sara 1:03:57
That's Oh, yeah. I mean, Jeff even listens to the podcast now. And it was just the other day with Addy going back to school now we've had to make some changes because her summer, you know, routine is different than her school routine. So our numbers that have needed to be tweaked a little bit, and I would, you know, I'm basically talking out loud to myself, I mean, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about where you're, you know, you're looking at the PDM I'm like, Alright, I know I need to change that. And I'm, you know, I'm, blah, blah, blah to myself, and just, like, just change it. You know, he's like, just like what Scott says on the podcast, like, don't wait, do it now.

Scott Benner 1:04:37
That Okay, that's great. And it makes me feel bad about considering calling this episode, Jeff bought a Korean kitten. So very, very close to that. I've made notes. And it's a it's a it's a contender, just so you know. I just keep thinking you like it's such a wonderful image of, you know, parents Love or that feeling guys have I don't know if women completely understand, like, when you guys look upset, we scramble in our brains, you know what I mean? Like, we're like, oh, how do we fix this? And I know everyone says that it's like it. But it's not just, it's not just guys ignoring the world and being like, I'll just say something, I'll make this better. You have an internal feeling like this woman that I really love is upset, and I need to fix it. And I'm imagining that there had to have been some common sense in while he was standing there with that kit and thinking, I really shouldn't do this, but that he just was overwhelmed by how much he cared about you guys. And he shows,

Sara 1:05:36
it didn't help that he had the other three with him when he adapted it, either. You know, it's like,

Scott Benner 1:05:42
it's really unfair.

Sara 1:05:44
I'm sure the feeling of this, I should not be doing this right now was going through like his mind. But of course, all three of the other children are there going. Oh, dad?

Scott Benner 1:05:56
Yeah, you guys, you're very, you're much too nice. The size of you very nice. I don't even know. There's almost nothing I think my children could say to put me in that situation. Right? Like, yeah, you're right. It's good. I just, I don't have that in me at all. I have another places not there. I defend my happiness first, does he know you're allergic to kittens when he buys this kitten? Or is that something you found out afterwards?

Sara 1:06:18
Um, no, we we knew. But I, I don't know what we were thinking. We should just get off the subject. No,

Scott Benner 1:06:26
no, this whole episode to me is about buying that kit. And just so you know.

Sara 1:06:31
Yeah, we were in a very, very bad.

Scott Benner 1:06:34
No, no, I, you know, and I highlighted a little bit to kind of, listen, I highlighted it a little bit because I want medical professionals to hear your story. And recognize that when they're standing in front of you, in a in a classroom, or in a hospital room and trying to explain this whole new world to you. And you're standing there stoically, and you're listening, the doctors, like, Oh, they got it. They didn't get it. They're, they're doing stupid things they shouldn't be doing. They can't think they're quietly in their head wondering why did this happen like that? You know, and then you send them out the door. And you act surprised that they didn't, like, you know, pick up more of it. And I'm not saying that you can stop people from being upset in a scenario like that. But you can recognize that it's happening, and spend a little more human time with them, to get them somewhere. That's what this podcast does. And I have I'm a little like, lit up about it right now. Because I see somebody I know who has some sway in this community. And they're partnering with a government agency to talk about how to talk about this with duly diagnosed people, like how do you get the people and get them the right information. And I'm seeing people talk to them. And it's all the same bowl over and over again, like the stuff I've been hearing for 20 years, like, here's what's important, this is important. That's what's important. I'm telling you right now, that what's important, is solid information. That's easy to understand, that you can put into practice immediately and see results so that you can build on it. It's not, it's not all of the stuff, you know, it's not the damn Pink Panther book. Like that's, that's not what's going to help anybody. I, it was seriously like, I don't know how many people have to listen to this podcast and have your experience before someone in the medical community hears it and says, Hey, you know what, we should probably just tell them what they need to know, in a way they can understand. And, you know,

Sara 1:08:31
I think it was helpful to that, you know, on many of the episodes, you've talked about just doing it on your own, I think I had to get comfortable with that and say,

Scott Benner 1:08:41
okay, yes, I have medical care if something were to ever happen, I feel comfortable taking her to the emergency room and letting them handle it that point because I'm not familiar with that. But the day to day, I don't really contact her team, ever. I just make the changes on my own. I don't, and doctors will say it to you, Hey, you know, some Well, some good doctors will say, Look, you're gonna have to get comfortable and make adjustments. But that's a different scenario, you standing in a in a cold room with a doctor aside, you know, saying, you know, this is on you, that feels different than hearing me say it. And so you need a person, you know, in my situation, speaking directly to other people so that they can be comfortable, they can see themselves in it. You know what I mean? And not, and not just feel like a guy just told me to do something, there's no way I can do because it's what it sounds like when a doctor tells you and then you I mean, I, I don't want to downplay what I'm doing here, but like, you know, you come on and you're like, you're listening to this regular guy here. And you know, and he's, he's doing it. If he I genuinely believe that people listening should think if this guy's doing it, I could do it. You know, because they're just there's nothing particularly special about me and I, I do it by not being scared by being the person who would have said no to Three crying girls about a kitten just by just by kind of standing up and having a backbone and saying, I'm not gonna put up with this. I don't know the answer, but I'll figure it out. And so now all the things that you guys hear now on the podcast that seemed like, I don't, I don't know how to put it, but like, they seem like staples in the community, at least for those of you listening, these ideas, just remember that they all started with me thinking, I'm not going to let this happen. And now and now I'm going to figure out how to stop it. And no direction whatsoever. Because I was not smart enough to Google anything. I don't listen to the doctor, I very much got in my own head and broke this all apart, which is now I think, why I understand it well enough to explain it easily. But but you can do that too. Like you can I hate to say think outside of the box, because that just sounds, you know, trite, but like there's a way to reverse engineer problems. And to remember that your first inclination comes from your fear, like, you know what you mean, like, the first thing you think is like defense, like, Oh, I want to make sure this doesn't happen. I want to make sure this doesn't happen. I flipped it around. And I thought, I want to make sure that this happens. You know, like, forget being scared, I want to be bold. I want to figure it out. And that's why I now talk in T shirt slogans on a podcast. I'm glad helps people. But I really think that you know, better direction better tools. easy to understand, repetitiveness. You can't let that go. Like, you know, when people always want to ask me like, which podcasts will tell me exactly how to do this. And I tell them, Look, I know there's a lot of episodes, but just listen to all of them. Because eventually something will come up that will stick to you. And I can't know. You know, I can't know what Sarah Beth we're here to make her feel good. versus what Jeff will hear versus what the rest of you listening will hear. Like, you all need to hear something different. So I had to keep prattling on until I cover all of you. Like that is sort of how it makes me feel when I'm recording it. Like it's why I like having free flowing conversations because they don't lead me to say the same thing over and over again. And I'm just really thrilled that this worked out so well for you. And how old is she now? Tell me a little bit about what's going on with her life? And then I'll let you get back to yours.

Sara 1:12:16
Oh, she's seven. She she's doing really well. I hope that it should we continue to see results. She just actually in July, she ended up going on the Omni pod. And so we've been fooling with that learning that system, which was a relief for me. I had mastered MDI, I would like to say I shouldn't say I had mastered it. I like to think that I mastered it I had done we were doing really well. I mean, she got those a one see results without that was on MDI that was not with a pump.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:50
Yeah. So

Sara 1:12:54
now that she has that, you know, I remember there was a time where she didn't want the the injections, she would do it breakfast, lunch and dinner. And then she do a lot of, you know, cheese sticks for snacks, or you know, something very low carb. So because she didn't want the shot. And she had said to me one day, she just broke my heart because she wanted something and I said you can have that. You just have to, you know, she started out by saying you don't let me eat

Unknown Speaker 1:13:21
anything.

Sara 1:13:23
And I just hurt so bad because she could have it. She just didn't want the shot that went along with it. So we finally I went into the doctor and said, I really would like to get her on a pump. Because this is now what I'm struggling with she she realizes she recognizes what's going on and doesn't want it. So and I don't want it to you know, become this, this piece for her. I want her to be normal. So

Scott Benner 1:13:53
I, I try to remind people that you know, you don't want an eating disorder and type one diabetes, and you don't want to create that kind of an adversarial relationship with food. And that's exactly what that is when she starts saying I'd rather not eat. If I have to do this, then you got to find another way. You know, right away. That's also what helped me believe it, believe it or not, that's what you know, when I talked about doing like over bolusing a meal that you can't Pre-Bolus for. I started figuring that out when artists had something similar one day when I she's like, Hey, I'm hungry. I was a great just, you know, let's bolus this much and like 10 minutes from now you can eat it and then she said never mind. Oh, and I was like, okay, she doesn't even want to wait the 10 minutes not not in this moment. She's okay with it Other times, but in this moment, she doesn't want to so instead of pushing. I just thought well how do I stop this from being a problem? And you know, then I just I just started did that math about putting in too much insulin to cover not just the food but the spike that's gonna try to happen and the numbers. Like I just sort of extrapolated out I did all that I was like, Well, I think about Did this much right here? And she eats, maybe the spikes still won't happen. When that happened. I was like, oh, wow, look, I got around another problem, you know, and kept her from feeling like she couldn't say that she was hungry. So I love that you did that. Good for you. You were terrific. You really are. And we went way over time. So I'm sorry about that.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:20
Oh, that's okay.

Scott Benner 1:15:22
Did you end up being nervous the whole way through?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:25
Oh,

Sara 1:15:26
no, I would say like, really, it was a lot to do with the podcast like it was other people's stories. having that connection, knowing that it was possible, and then be able there was I can't remember exactly which one. But there were. I mean, you've said it multiple times. But the focusing on being afraid of insulin, I there was a point where I was afraid. But you know, it's funny, because I talk to adilyn providers now. And it's, I have the opposite. I saw what happens to a kid with super high blood sugar, right? I see the effects of that. And that scares me more than the low. You know, so often, people are scared of their children going low. I've even seen people treat blood sugars that are like 8090. Because they're like, Oh, that's, that's too low. But not that that's wrong. I don't want to make it seem like that. That's what they're comfortable with. But I'm not. So it's kind of like I if I see, you know, anything above like 150 adilyn. Her whole persona changes. You know, we we jokingly sometimes I shouldn't probably say this, but we say that she turns psycho glycaemic. She's she just becomes this raging person when she's high, and it's harder to get through to her. So I mean, it's, it's stressful to see the numbers. And then it's also stressful to deal with the type of you know, her personality that evolves from this high blood sugar. So I hate high numbers. I mean, I would rather deal with a low and give her a juice box or, you know, a suite of some sort than

Scott Benner 1:17:15
and have the high so Beth

not only am I glad you shared that with people, but you just save Jeff on the cat title. Because psycho glycaemic is probably going to be the title of this episode. You really pulled his butt out of the fire, right? And then ninth hour, look at you. Excellent. 11th hour Excuse me, I forgot the saying, but you really came through unless you don't want that.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:38
Oh, I don't care what your title let you do your own thing.

Scott Benner 1:17:41
I got another note. The other day someone's like I needed an episode on this. It would be helpful if the titles had something to do with the content. I was like, too bad. Just listen to them. You'll figure it out. No, seriously, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:56
It was my pleasure.

Scott Benner 1:17:59
Thanks so much to Sarah for coming on and sharing her story. And thank you Dexcom and Omni pod for sponsoring this episode, please check out those links dexcom.com forward slash juice box and my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box in mere moments. I mean, it'll probably take longer than moments. But in no time at all, let's say you could be wearing the world class Dexcom, ci, six continuous glucose monitor, and the amazing tubeless insulin pump called Omni pod. Just have to get started. You're looking for results like you're hearing about from people. These are some of the tools that some of those people are using. You could be some of those people too. last little thing before I go. Like I said, I'm speaking in Atlanta this week, and it's on February 29. For those of you who snag tickets, I can't wait to meet you please come up and say hello. And for those of you who didn't get tickets in time. I know you're not used to a type one nation event selling out but you're bringing Scott down there. Yeah, Jenny Smith. These tickets are not going to last. Anyway, I hope to see you. If you're in Wisconsin, I will be there Thursday, March 26. From 5pm to 8:30pm. Doing a three and a half hour talk. It's going to be a talk followed by q&a. I'm flying all the way to Wisconsin, I want that room nice and full. Okay. These uh, you can find these links at Arden state.com for slash events. After that, I'm taking a little break to watch my son play some baseball. I'll be back at it on Saturday, May 30, at the touched by type one event in Orlando, Florida. And then I've got something coming up in August at the jdrf type one nation event in Virginia. I'll be in Richmond, that Saturday, August 22. I think there's a couple of other things that are going to get put on the calendar between now and then but for now. That's all All I have booked and trust me. I'm getting tired of flying places. So please come see me before I I'm too old for this. I just I got sick The last time I flew. There was a kid in the back of the plane. I sat down I heard it right away. Like that's it. I'm dead. Sure enough, lost my voice. You heard it in the last episode, right where I'm doing the promos and my ha I couldn't even get like my words out. Terrible. I'm better now. Thank God. I'm going to Atlanta in five days to speak for four hours. And two days ago, I couldn't speak on the telephone. So I've been resting my voice, which is probably something you can imagine and something my family seemed kind of happy about. They were like snickering at me with a doctor said I had to rest my voice if I was going to make it to Atlanta, but I will be there. Will you? I'll be back at the end of the week with some technology news. I think you're going to enjoy hearing about

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