Scott Benner 5/22/18 Scott Benner 5/22/18

#166 Patti Makes Me Happy

Patti struggled for decades before finding her T1D groove...

Patti's story is inspirational!

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, welcome to Episode 166 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode is sponsored by Omni pod index calm. As always, you can learn more about the Omni pod at my Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox, or the links in your show notes were at Juicebox podcast.com. And the same goes for Dexcom. Except they spell it a little differently dexcom.com Ford slash juice box and those links in the same places. I got this really wonderful note last year from Patty. She told me a little bit about her diagnosis story and the anger she'd carried for a very long time about her diabetes. She actually said that she was not a very good keeper of her diabetes.

sometime last year after finding out that her agency went up, Patty decided to try to do something about it. She'll tell you more in the episode, but eventually she found this podcast. And a little while later she sent me this incredible note that I'm looking at right now. Well, you know, I had to ask her to come on to tell the story because it was just really special. I want you to know two things about this episode. One Patty's a little soft spoken. So listen closely. And to nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making changes to your health care plan. Hey, guys, listen, I was hoping to have my Dexcom g six review for you this week. But Arden has been feeling a little under the weather, her blood pressure has actually been kind of low. And we're in the middle of trying to figure out why that is. So I'm a little behind. So if you can be patient. I'll get to it as soon as I can. I really like it. I think it's very worth upgrading. But I'll get back to you with some more details as soon as possible. For now,

Unknown Speaker 1:50
this is Patti.

Patti 1:53
Okay, my name is Sadie. And I've been a type one diabetic since 1993. I am a registered nurse, and I take care of the geriatric population. And I have a very spoiled cat that wants to kill me on a regular basis.

Scott Benner 2:13
You're very good at this Patty. Excellent. So Oh, and just as we get going, my daughter wants to do our Bolus for lunch. So hold on one second.

Unknown Speaker 2:22
We're gonna Bolus try to remember what was in that lunch box. Let's just call it 10 units

Unknown Speaker 2:31
and

Unknown Speaker 2:35
extend 60% now and the rest over a half hour.

Scott Benner 2:46
And she's back on our way. Hopefully she'll just say, okay, go away. And

Unknown Speaker 2:54
let's see. Come on. She's read it.

Scott Benner 3:03
Okay, so 1993 Sorry about that. 1993 How old were you in 1993 1111 years old? I want you I told you before we started recording, every podcast, I've almost every quarter I say to somebody go ahead, introduce yourself. I'll ask you a question. And we'll get going. And I never know what I'm going to say. Which is I don't know what kind of a truth that is about the podcast. But nevertheless, I don't I don't pre plan it. But for you, but for you. I know my first question. Okay. Okay. Back in 1993 when you were 11 years old. Tell me why you got in the bathtub at two o'clock in the morning.

Patti 3:47
I thought somehow that would help with how thirsty I was. Um, I don't think I was actually thinking very straight at that time. But I figured why not put on a swimsuit and goggles and go for a swim in the bathtub. And now maybe I thought I was asked Moses it would like, help me feel less be hydrated. But

Scott Benner 4:15
so you were looking for any way at all to feel hydrated at that point. Yeah, yeah. And, and even at 11 which, by the way is old enough to recognize that swimming in the bathtub, too in the morning is odd. So so it's not like you were six and you're just like, you know what might work? So you you climb into the bathtub. I think the first obvious question we don't really need the answer to is did that in any way quench your thirst? No, they did not. And who found you in the bathtub?

Patti 4:45
Um, my brother did How old was he then? He's about probably maybe 17

Scott Benner 4:58
years so he was a number of years older than you without Yeah, okay. Brother finds you in the bathtub. I'm assuming he gets your parents.

Patti 5:05
Yeah, he says, you know, this is kind of weird. Maybe you should check this out.

Scott Benner 5:15
You have the best diagnosis. Sorry. So

Unknown Speaker 5:18
so

Scott Benner 5:19
you're in the bathtub you did have goggles. That's not just hyperbole. You were actually had goggles with you

Patti 5:24
I bottles I was on is all about women.

Unknown Speaker 5:28
Oh my god.

Scott Benner 5:30
Okay so your your goggle up here and your swimming suit, you're in the, in the bathtub, your brother finds you, he goes and gets your parents, your parents, I'm assuming look at each other quietly and think, oh god, this one's nuts. But then ask it but then ask you what's wrong? And what did you tell them? Do you remember?

Patti 5:46
Well, um, I think I was pretty honest with them. I just said I felt like swimming in the bathtub. Um, and I really didn't see a problem with it. Although at that time, I was also starting to hit the cosmos. respirations which I think was freaking them out more than the fact that I was in the bathtub with a swimsuit. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:11
And so you're panting it's obvious that point.

Patti 6:15
Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:16
Okay, so they they take you to the they probably took you to the hospital, by the way to abandon you there. But then when they found out you had diabetes, they're like, Oh, that's okay. Well hang out with other. Can we take her to a fire station? Is she too old? She'll find her way home again, like what do we do? Right? But but so so you said in your note that an hour later you were you were pretty much being diagnosed with Type One Diabetes?

Patti 6:38
Yeah. Yep. All right, took him to the ER. And the doctor, I guess took one look at me and said, Oh, my gosh, she's diabetic.

Scott Benner 6:50
Wow. Well, that. So now that person knew what they were talking about that that's you don't hear that very often. You don't hear a lot of people going in and just getting the answer right away. Which is, okay, so, but you were pretty far along at that point, because you probably didn't end up in the bathtub purely out of like an 11 year old flight of fancy you were probably your blood sugar was pretty high, you probably weren't thinking very clearly.

Patti 7:14
Right? It was a gradual build up. I had totally forgotten about this. But my mom had reminded me that when I was in fifth grade, I was the only fifth grader that demands of a water bottle on my desk, because I was so thirsty all the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:32
How long did that go on? For? You know?

Patti 7:35
I, it felt like it was a week. And when she had reminded me, then I remembered that Yeah, yeah, actually, I did have a water bottle. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:46
And that's going back even. I mean, 93. Let's do Matt, why don't we do 2003, then another 10 would be 2013 and 2017. Down to those 14 that's took 24 years ago. So I know, you're impressed with my math, Patti, but just try not to try not to, you know, get?

Patti 8:05
I'm not.

Scott Benner 8:07
So it's quite some time ago. Did you? What kind of tools did they give you in the hospital to try to cope with the type on?

Patti 8:19
To be honest, I really don't. They gave me that many. They really didn't explain what they were doing. I do remember, at one point, I had he on a keto strip. And the reading was large. And I looked at this person, I don't know whether they were a nurse or not. And I just said, well, is that good? Or Ill? What does that mean? And? And she kind of gave me sort of? Well, not really, but it didn't really explain why I was doing it. And also, they were testing my blood frequently, and they weren't explaining to me what was going on really, or why they were doing it. And they weren't explaining to my Mom, why they were doing it. And so my mom was starting to get very angry because of the lack of communication. Um, you know, why they were doing?

Scott Benner 9:18
So they were just sort of handling you but not taking any time at all to explain what was happening, why it was happening or anything like that.

Patti 9:25
Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 9:29
So you get out of the hospital, that experience you said, within your note that that experience did not sit well with you, and it stuck with you for a really long time. So let me ask you a couple questions like when so when you got out? Did you feel like did you feel like you knew what you wanted to do what you were doing? Did anyone eventually explain to you did anyone eventually explain it to your mom or you just like, Did they give you the old here's your insulin. Here's your needles. Good luck. What did you get?

Patti 9:59
Well Prior to diagnosed I had been a physician assistant. And obviously, I wasn't going to go see them anymore. And they had me go to it trician that specialized in diabetes, a pediatric endocrinologist. And I remember going to, I'm not sure if you want to call them like classes. It was just me though. And I remember they told my mom to have me go, like, run around the playground and letter. What it's like to have low blood sugar before I go back to school, so, um, yeah, they had me fat. So the

Scott Benner 10:50
two so this class told you to get your blood sugar low before going back to school. So you'd know what it felt like when your blood sugar was low?

Unknown Speaker 10:57
Yeah. Ironically, that's

Scott Benner 10:59
not the craziest advice I've ever heard for 23 years ago. It's not good advice. But it's not. It's not the worst actually. It just sounds like there were people sitting in a lunchroom somewhere going, what can we tell these kids? And, you know, and so, but you went into that class without a parent just by yourself.

Patti 11:17
Um, I think my, my mom might have been in there too. But I don't really remember her. Like being in the same area that I was, or if she just sat in the waiting room. I remember, a played this. It was, I don't know what kind of game it was. But they had me play this game where you had to go through the city, and you had to avoid the sugary foods. And then you had to eat the good foods. And I just remember these bizarre looking bananas that were walking down the street. And if you run into them, something would happen to your blood sugar or something like that.

Scott Benner 11:55
Oh, yeah, that sounds exactly like diabetes, you bump into a banana and everything goes wrong. And I'm sorry, your hospital was on Mars. Where was this?

Unknown Speaker 12:08
Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 12:10
Okay, so, um, so, how did this initial experience strike you? What I mean, were you left, obviously, at scale, a leading question that we all pretty much know the answer to, but were you invigorated and excited to take care of your type one diabetes? Or what were the first No, no.

Unknown Speaker 12:30
So much.

Unknown Speaker 12:33
Ah, yeah. So

Scott Benner 12:34
kind of tell me a little bit about those first years and how they hit you sort of emotionally and then that side of it?

Patti 12:41
Um, well, I, I was obviously very angry. Um, I'm not sure exactly if I was more angry at being diagnosed so late, or if I was just angry at diabetes in general. I also knew that I was depressed. And I was trying to convey that message to F. And my parents and nobody seemed to really be getting the picture that Yeah, you know, maybe it would have been good to talk to somebody about my experience in the hospital. As I listen to a lot of diagnosis stories, and I mean, I don't hear too many where the doctors telling you that your blood sugar was 1300 and 76. And you know, you're in you were in cardiovascular shock. And I, if I had just slept it off, like the physician assistant told my mom to do, I wouldn't have been around.

Scott Benner 13:54
Patti 1300 and 76 was your blood sugar.

Patti 13:57
Yeah, and I know, I shouldn't be proud of that. But sometimes, like when I tell people diagnosis story at my desk, and I have the highest reading at the hospital. Well,

Scott Benner 14:05
yeah, I mean, I think that listen, the highest aside, it sounds like you were the closest to being dead that you could have been and you're back from it. You know what I mean? Like, that's the that's a heck of a triumph in there. I don't think you had much more time. Like you don't mean like that. Like you said, You didn't really bring it up here but you talked about the note and we're probably confused as to things but that you did go to a doctor prior to the to going swimming in the bathtub. And and they told you like flu like symptoms, go home, sleep it off that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you're looking at me here.

Patti 14:40
Really. Factor says that. If I had done that, I would have died that night. And they, when I had interviewed the emergency physician who saved my life, in 2015. He was saying that they were very Worried that I wasn't going to make it, I was fair that they were struggling to get been access because I was so dehydrated. And

Scott Benner 15:12
she said, You went back. You went back to talk to that doctor a couple years ago.

Patti 15:17
Yeah, I did. As I, I really struggled. Except I diabetes. And I've been working with a therapist, Mike who's kind of like a cheerleader. So

Scott Benner 15:34
I can't, I gotta be honest with you. If someone would walk around behind me like doing like little like, Sis, boom, bah stuff during the day, I think it would be here.

Unknown Speaker 15:42
I really want good blood sugar. No, forget that.

Scott Benner 15:46
You can make it to the car, you'll go grocery shopping, you won't cry while you're there. Like stuff like that. But But okay, so you see. So this is, I think the interesting part and where we're really going to talk, which is that you're talking about in 2015, you're still you're still digging away and digging away trying to figure out how to deal with this in your life. Because in all honesty for 20 years, you just you by your own admission, you haven't been doing very well. Is that is that right?

Patti 16:17
Or right?

Scott Benner 16:20
This is the depression? Did it stick with you? Or did you find a way through that earlier? Or would you have considered yourself still depressed about in the recent years,

Patti 16:29
ah, still depressed. It was especially bad in middle school was, you know, the addition to hormones and everything else. And I just never really got over that initial experience of being in that in the intensive care unit and waking up with a IV in my left arm and, you know, I, I'd be upset because my parents would have to go home at the end of the night. Because back then, you know, the parents aren't allowed to sleep overnight with their kids. So, you know, it's like, left in the weight room. You know,

Scott Benner 17:11
it was a real trial. It was a it was a serious trauma for you know, Can Can I ask you, did you have any? Did you have any depression prior to the diabetes that you're aware of?

Patti 17:21
Not that I'm aware of. Okay.

Scott Benner 17:24
Okay, so your diagnosis, you know, for a number of really good reasons was was really impactful on you in ways that didn't lead you into exciting times, we'll say. And so for for literally 20 some years, you've been battling with that place that it put you in? Have you had Are you in that time? Are you diligently working towards your diabetes and not having success? Or are you having success? Are you not? Are you not wait, you know, considered? You know, does your doctor feel like you're doing a good so hard to talk around? Because I know some people don't like to hear the words good job and compliance and management, all that stuff. But let's just save it for the, you know, I'm not judging you. But for the for the terms of the conversation. Would you consider yourself someone who spends time every day keeping their blood sugar and range? Or was that not working for you just wasn't going down? How's your day? Like, I

Patti 18:27
guess? I was probably probably the most non compliant diabetic in the state of Michigan, probably.

Scott Benner 18:36
And what does that look like day to day?

Patti 18:39
Um, well, you know, in middle school, I would, I would make up numbers. You know, what, when I was testing my blood, eyelid Of course, the AMC always paid me into a big fiver. But I would also know, I was also on injections up until 2005 when I stopped my first insulin pump. So

Scott Benner 19:15
it doesn't, you know, are you are you injecting? You were injecting for a dozen years then. Yeah. Okay. And so basically, whenever you tested and the number came up, we were just like, it's perfect. And then you rattle off some number that you thought was great if someone asks you, and did your mom just accept that as you know, would you Oh, no, no. So how did they?

Patti 19:38
Well, I'm in the early years, it was kind of like, the diabetes. Um, you know, they didn't want me to go to sleep overs right away because they're worried about my blood sugar going well. You know, I couldn't go to that guy. I played violin. I wanted to go to Interlachen and like, Well, no, you need to go to diabetes camp first. And I was getting very resentful or angry at them because I felt like, you know, all this, as I'm diabetic and one memory sticks out was when I was in for age, and it must have been some like Christmas party or something. And I remember they were like, all these like, desserts and everything on the table. And then my mom's like, and here's some sugar free cookies and

Scott Benner 20:40
sugar free cookies. Those two words don't go together. Have some tasty kale. Right? Yeah, yeah. Right. So it just, I mean, you got the full like snowstorm of diabetes, like it just every time you turn it around, nothing was going your way, basically,

Patti 21:03
pretty much. And I was also I'm still in denial. Like, I, I figured, well, hey, if I just ignore it, it'll go away or, and that will help me be more quote, normal, unquote. But of course, if that doesn't work,

Scott Benner 21:27
don't worry. Well, we'll read a story in six weeks and on in some raggy newspaper somewhere that ignoring diabetes is the way to take care of it. So yeah, so I mean, obviously, it's a childish thought. But it's also a thought that, you know, comes to people when they're not children, if they're have, they've been so overwhelmed by something that they just can't imagine a pathway out of it, right, you just sort of, you don't want to give up, you don't want to say to yourself, I give up. So you go look, you know, and I bet you this will just be okay, if you know, I don't you know, and you get that feeling in your head, like, like doing nothing is doing something almost.

Patti 22:02
And I was also a very teenager, I'm sure my mom would have sold me to the gypsies if she could have. Um, you know, so I, I remember, I would think I was very rebellious, because I would have like a liter of regular coke in my closet. They're like, Okay, I'm gonna drink this, and not really care what it does to my blood sugar.

Scott Benner 22:31
And that was in high school.

Unknown Speaker 22:32
So that was in middle school in middle school. How

Scott Benner 22:35
did High School go? Did you find any clarity there as you got older and you matured more? Or did it just go on a little more of the same? You know,

Patti 22:43
I think with the dip pression got worse. And I really found it hard to relate to other people. I think there were maybe two or three other diabetics in the whole school system. But I never really acted with them. There was one person that I started to get better once they started later on in high school, and then in college. But I've I haven't talked in a way that I could somewhat relate to But yeah, I was just, I, I feel like, part of it was like, as my being depressed, my depression wasn't addressed, that it made just everything else. 10 times worse. No, I

Scott Benner 23:42
mean, that that makes a lot. I don't, I don't feel like I've ever been depressed in my life. But that does make a lot of sense. You know, I mean, if you think about what depression is, and how it can affect you, and then having it on top of something like that type one, just you know, geez, that's magnified a million times. Constantly all day long, right. I mean, that's had to have been what it felt like is that all day long, everything was sort of conspiring against you to make life difficult, I guess.

Unknown Speaker 24:10
Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 24:10
Yeah. And then and how do you fight back with it? You don't have the right you're diagnosed 23 years ago, you're not given great tools. The technology really wasn't there to help you. Your mom wasn't, you know, you know, your mom didn't. It's not like she had a firm handle on it. You just weren't listening to her. Right, like so. Everybody was a little overwhelmed by it one way or another. So I'm stunned, amazed and sort of I don't know I found myself feeling proud for you. Like I don't know how you got through high school like you graduated high school and went to college. Oh, yeah. Seriously, it's a it's a heck of an accomplishment when you're battling against all those things. And but you did you went to college. It was college. I don't I don't want to belabor the point. But was college more of the same or did you find a lighter college?

Patti 24:56
Um, were the same.

Scott Benner 25:01
How do you keep going? Like you have the Constitution of a bowl? Seriously, right? Like your blood sugar's all over the place, you're depressed. And you've still go to school graduate, go to college graduate, you're an RN,

Patti 25:17
I yeah, I am, I originally went to school for composition to experience, I have a bachelor's in music. But then when I realized that I couldn't get a job with health benefits, I decided I need to find a career that would kind of help with that. So my got interested in nursing and gradually tested the waters and found that I really liked doing it and but

Scott Benner 25:48
so you hold two degrees that you got while you were depressed with Type One Diabetes that was out of control. Seriously, Patty, without the depression and the diabetes, you'd be an astronaut. And I'm like getting

Patti 26:03
horrible at math.

Scott Benner 26:07
I'm sure the people who you're getting medicine for feel good about hearing you say that. So I don't know, one to four of these, whatever. But but

Unknown Speaker 26:21
but but so,

Scott Benner 26:23
you know, you're the first person that, you know, I get I get a number of, you know, I get a number of emails, people thanking me for the podcast. And some of them I'm just I'm always just like, wow, like, thank you. That's really great. And each one of them makes me honestly very emotional and, and happy. And but yours. I was just like, you have to come on the podcast and tell people this like you. Because you really were just sending me a thank you note, you told me a little bit about your background, and said thank you. And that's sort of the the reason I wanted to have you on this because this right not that your story is not fascinating, not that I wouldn't just sit here for an hour and talking about you swimming when you were 11 years old in your bathtub, because I'm delighted by that. But but because but because I'm forever trying to get across the people that no matter where diabetes has sort of stuck you in your life and no matter how you're struggling, that I do think there are simple pathways to feeling better, doing better, being more healthy. And in the end, it's just me saying it. I think that people who aren't depressed who aren't overburdened by it, hear that and go Oh, that sounds hopeful to me. But I'm also aware that it could sound to other people like bs like oh, yeah, sure. That's not for me. My life doesn't go that way. That's that's your good luck. You know, you were lucky with diabetes the way you hit you the way it struck you the way you understand it the way you know the tools you have whatever it ends up being. But that's not my reality is that is how I feel like it can be seen by some. But your reality is and let's be honest, Patti about as terrible as possible. And so I appreciate that you're laughing. And and yet, tell me tell everybody what you told me at the end of the email. The new dexcom CGM is here the G six has arrived. You can always know your glucose numbers and where they're headed with the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitoring system. By the way, it's now FDA permitted for making diabetes treatment decisions without finger sticks or calibrations. Guys, listen, I gotta tell you, I am working my butt off here on this ad. And I'm just in the worst mood been worried about Arden. Listen, let's just be honest, for a second, no big voices or anything else. If you were a dexcom continuous glucose monitor, you're going to be able to see where your blood sugar is going how fast it's getting there, you're going to be able to make treatment decisions before you run into problems. The new g six has a predictive level alert can actually tell you that in 20 minutes, it expects you to be 55 that gives you so much time to do something with a blood sugar that's like in the 70s you can set your high threshold line like ours is at 130. So that as soon as you bump up over that number, you can make some adjustments to keep you from getting any higher. So when Dexcom will tell you on their website like you know a one see reductions historically, they'll say like historic results here I'm going to read the historic results based on Dexcom G 4g five systems, a one c reduction. The dexcom CGM is proven to lower a one C and reduce hypoglycemic events. That's what their historical data tells them. What I'm going to tell you is, is that when you know your blood sugar is going up and you do something about it, it doesn't go up. And that's what lower Sherry one say. We talked about it here all the time. You guys know what to do. I just I don't have the energy today to be like, hey, by Dexcom but please look into it. You'll be really happy you did. And I'll be happy if you use my link dexcom.com forward slash juice box with the links in your show notes or Juicebox podcast.com tell everybody what you told me at the end of the email

Patti 30:07
well, that I listen to your podcasts, and your, your Outlook, and the suggestions that you gave, I feel like I got more out of that than any endocrinologist that I've ever been into. And that really is the honest truth. I've, I've been really listening to your podcast pretty much every day. And each one I take a little bit from and I can relate to, and especially the one fold with insulin, I think that had the biggest impact on me. Because I've, I've never been fond of the idea of low blood sugar. And so on purpose, I've kept my blood sugar higher than it should be. Just so I don't have to feel low blood sugar. So it's, you know, it's really made an impact on me and, and I haven't always been good about wearing my dexcom sensor. And I've been wearing it now for about two to three weeks. And what I do is a I've been doing a screen capture of like my breath for 12 hours, 24 hours. And I send it to Mike. You chillier. Yeah, my cheerleader. Yeah. And. And when I gradually started sending these ones, where my mind was, like, being steady at 100. And he emailed me back and he's like, Who are you? And what did you do with Patty's?

Scott Benner 32:08
Well, Patti, I want to tell you that I got your email later at night, my wife and I were in bed kind of, you know, at the end of a day, and I read it in bed, and she looked at me and said, Are you crying? And I was like, the whole night crying. I was crying. tears coming out of my eyes. And and she said, Why are you upset? I said, I'm not upset. I'm really happy and and she said Why? And I told her I'm like, I can't even let you read this again. Like, I can't read this twice tonight. Like if I read this twice, I'm gonna I'm gonna fall apart. I was so thrilled for you. And it seriously just really pleased for you. You know what I mean? And, and I did, she did. My wife did wrestle my iPad from me. And she read it. And then she even said something nice to me. And we've been married for over 20 years. And that never happens, Patty. So you got my wife to say something nice to me. You're apparently my cheerleader. By the way. Thank you very much. And, and but but moreover, I can't believe I'm almost gonna I'm almost gonna just be crappy to myself. It's a podcast. It's just like a silly podcast. And and but it really struck you right? So I think that what I'd love to understand what I'd love for other people to hear and I don't know the answer to this question is, what about this turned you because you are a person who in case it hasn't been clear to people, up until a couple of months ago, your entire 23 years with diabetes has been just as you explained your middle school, your diagnosis, your high school, your college, your adult life, it has been a burden and full of depression and not really trying to take care of yourself in a way that you were you even wanted to. And so I just think whatever came out, whatever you got out of this. I want to know what it was like I want to know how it struck you like what what is it that? I mean? How I'm at a loss, honestly.

Patti 34:15
Well, um, you know, I gotta make a disclaimer that happy pills and therapy every week also help.

Unknown Speaker 34:22
Oh, fine. So

Scott Benner 34:23
I've done nothing. I've right away. Patty's here to tell everybody that if you're depressed, take Zoloft or something and and and go to therapy and then a podcast. So the podcast is useless said Go ahead. Okay, so how long have you been? How long have you been using? I'm using you're using like SSRIs or something like that.

Patti 34:47
Um, I was. But now I'm on. I'm kind of a combination. I've got Wellbutrin and Adderall imboca and look,

Scott Benner 35:04
I think one of those makes your hair grow. I'm not sure. I watch a lot of commercials where they say things about Cymbalta. But I'm just kidding, I don't know. I have no idea. But okay, so you've you found a therapist who sort of gotten you into cocktails, it's, that's a better way. Well,

Patti 35:23
it doesn't prescribe any medications, psychologists, but I do have a nurse practitioner that I also work with. And she prescribed monitors and medications for that. But one reason that Mike has been very effective for me is that I can't bs him, like I have with other therapists. Like, it's not possible, like he totally knows, but I'm being a big favor. So please, I kinda need somebody to kind of call you out. Right? Call me out on that. And, and it definitely has not been easy to discuss. And I'm, can be very good at deflecting the diabetes topic and finding other things to distract with. But luckily, he's very patient with me,

Scott Benner 36:23
keeping you on so so. So I guess the first step was finding someone who would be a strong, you know, ally, and at the same time, somebody who would call you out if you tried to deviate away from the conversation. And that that's been very valuable to you. At the same time, you've addressed the depression with medication, which is also been valuable, I think, and did that. Do you think those two things together made you? Did you did you suddenly wake up one day and think, wow, I want to I want to take better care of myself?

Patti 36:54
No, no, I'm actually was a recent visit to the endocrinologist, um, I, anyone see had gone from 9.1 to 9.4. And, you know, when I found your podcast, this was after my appointment, and I wasn't being totally serious with myself. At first, I'm like, well, maybe I'll just go and see if there any podcasts about diabetes. And, you know, just check it out. I wasn't really expecting to change my outlook very much. But the more I listened to your podcast, the more things started to click with me and make more sense. Especially, like, for example, the Dexcom settings, and, you know, your high limit and your low limit, and it made total sense for me to think Well, okay, why would you set your Dexcom to 250, and then get a warning, because by that time, you're super high, and it takes forever to get back down. And just by, so I decided, Okay, I'm gonna adjust that. And I was starting to notice results, and I started adjusting it even more. And I think by getting that immediate, back, of being in it, trying to do like, micro boluses, and pumping down high blood sugars, being able to see that right away, it really made a difference for me, that podcast where you were talking about that, and it really kind of opened my eyes like, Okay, this doesn't have to be like this. And, I mean, just just the way you talk on podcasts, and, and you have a good sense of humor, and, and you always seem he always mentioned, you know, it's not going to always be perfect all the time. There's no such thing is that diabetes land. But you I like how you say to, you know, take what data you have, and try to figure out how that happened and how to make it better for the next time. And just being able to put that into my technology and seeing those results, because I think one of the tricky things with diabetes is everybody tells you about complications and how, oh yeah, you're gonna lose your foot and an eyeball and maybe throw a third arm or something if you don't take care of your diabetes, but you don't see any of that right. away. And, and so you're not getting instant feedback as to what's going on, whereas wearing my CGM and trying these techniques out, I'm seeing Well, yeah, it is possible that I can get it in the range. That is where it's supposed to be. And yeah, I am going to have bikes and stuff, where I need to figure out what happened or if I didn't do the Bolus, right, but it's not the end of the world. And I, you know, I, I know, prior to this, I really define blood sugars as either good or bad. And, and I realized, well, if I keep doing that, you know, I'm just gonna have bad blood tears all the time, and then I'm not gonna feel good about myself. So I'm trying to look at it more from just, it's a number. And I have this goal, and I'm trying out these techniques. It just, the more I realized it was possible to do that, the more I felt, kind of inspired to and motivated to do what you're doing. And I'm trying your best to pick up blood glucose glucoses table as you can. On a daily basis.

Scott Benner 41:38
Well, Patti, I think what you've just said is that I'm delightful. And thank you, I heard you, not just joking you, because you've made me uncomfortable and being so kind to but, but it was, it was I just I just like listening to you talk just now because it, it made me It made me feel lucky, that the things that we talked about here occurred to me, you know, because I just simply could have been, you know, what I mean, I just as easily could have been a person who didn't get a good lead in and didn't have somebody with me to kind of spur me on and, and, you know, it could have been, you know, I mean, you were getting this feedback, your whole life, but you couldn't process it, and nobody was there to help you process it. And you've ended up just making me feel very fortunate. And, and then I'm glad that whatever has happened to me, and my daughter, and whatever has kind of transpired in our lives and stuck to us as as you know, kind of the ways we do things. I'm so glad that it got back to you and that it found you Yeah, I just I'm really pleased for you. And and I'm excited that you're on a new path because this is a very new path for you at the moment and and just to hear you talk about not you know, to bumping and nudging align around and and and wanting to know when your blood sugar's heading up not being told an hour later after it's already 250 you know, that stuff just makes me like I feel like I'm glowing inside. I'm so happy for you, you know? I'm thrilled. I really am I'm saying nothing of value right now because you were so kind just now and that I can't think which doesn't happen very often here so you kind of shut me up Patty podcast if I get this seriously I'm I'm genuinely thrilled for you. So I guess let's talk you know in the time we have left let's let's talk about like some real like nuts and bolts stuff. So you are you Pre-Bolus savvy podcast listeners heard this ad coming a mile away. Guys, I'm in the same mood as I was when I did the Dexcom ad. I will tell you this Arden's blood pressure has been low for a few days, and there's a lot of stuff going on around here, and we're trying to figure things out. Now, a secondary issue on top of diabetes she would think would be overwhelming, but I really have not found that to be the case. Earlier I spoke about the Dexcom. Now I'm gonna tell you about the Omni pod, two percents on pump. These tools make Arden's management so simple is the right word, that I don't feel overwhelmed by diabetes. And when something else in life comes up, it's not like something's piling on top of something else. Arden's having an issue right now we're gonna figure it out. But it's not like I'm being inundated from all sides. And I really believe that her care that our management which is driven by on the pod, and the decisions we can make about her insulin and the delivery system we have for her insulin. It just makes everything more manageable, simpler. And so when something else in life like this comes And I'm all bummed out right now, because I'm trying to figure something out that I don't have my head wrapped around just yet. I'm not also thinking about IVs. And maybe that's the greatest thing I can say about on the pot, is it it really does make your life simpler, a little less diabetes a little more. The other stuff, links in the show notes, links at Juicebox podcast.com, or my omnipod.com Ford slash juicebox. Find out more today, on the pod sends you on a free demo pod, you'll really be able to get a feel for it from that there's no obligation and it's absolutely free. So give it a shot. I've just talked right past the music don't even care. Here's what I do care about. I did spend the other day editing this episode with Patti, she's a real treasure, by I really hope you're enjoying this the way I am. Here she is again, we're gonna ask her if she's Pre-Bolus thing and some of the nuts and bolts stuff that she does around her day to day diabetes,

Patti 45:54
I'm trying to definitely at breakfast I am on lunch, I'm a little bit forward areas because of the job that I work at. It's there's so a crisis that happens at like 11 2019. And if I Bolus, my lunch is probably not gonna be a good idea for me. I have tried it a little bit. But I'm still kind of working out the kinks and trying to avoid low blood sugars, although that's another thing that I've tried to be more vocal about my diabetes at my workplace. And I have some very, very supportive co workers, fellow nurses and seniors who understand what I'm trying to do, and I've used the Dexcom share app. And so if I go low, then I have a few nurses that get notifications. And I also shared it with my mom too. So you know, I'll get a text or they'll come out of their office and be like, are you eating something?

Scott Benner 47:15
Yeah, you have a lot of cheerleaders. And that's amazing.

Patti 47:20
And, yeah, and so it just kind of makes me feel more comfortable to you have that support. And, and they really have asked and looking out for me and I've explained what I've been trying to do as far as getting my blood sugar's under better control.

Scott Benner 47:41
And, you know, sometimes when if I, I know sometimes when I get low blood sugar, I get kind of crabby. And some, sometimes my females will be like, you need to go test your blood, you're getting crabby. So it's it's amazing that the feature on the Dexcom allows you to have have that option with people to just sort of be able to see it in case you don't see it. And to be able to just show their support for you, it's even more fascinating that you knowing that they have the option to see it is making you more comfortable and more kind of bold with your own care. That's so so in the past, you've just felt like if I should take too much insulin here, I'm on my own, and I'm going down. And pretty much Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah,

Patti 48:26
I haven't really been vocal about my diabetes and what I'm trying to do. Also, sometimes I'll post a graph on like, a five hour span of my graph on Facebook, kind of make myself also accountable and say, okay, you know, last night was a good night and babies planned or are starting out a little bit rough today, but in my coworkers will also ask, you know, how, how is your blood sugar doing? But your

Scott Benner 49:05
community then? Really?

Patti 49:07
Yeah, and it helps if you work in health care, because they

Unknown Speaker 49:11
understand a little better.

Patti 49:12
They understand it a little bit better, although they're still you know, some individuals who sure have old ways of thinking about diabetes, but we

Scott Benner 49:21
think you ate too much candy when you were 11. And

Patti 49:27
or they mix up all you need to take more insulin if your blood sugar's low and know you don't want to do that.

Scott Benner 49:34
I know somebody like that, that just can't get it straight. Always bringing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Your low. Here's your pump. Your high have this soda. No. Okay, keep that straight. But, but wow, petits you've had a complete and utter turnaround in your life in the last few months. Are you thrilled Are you excited? Like how does how do you feel hopeful? Like, where are you at?

Patti 50:04
I feel hopeful. I've also noticed that I, I physically feel better course. I'm not as tired as much. I'm not having to bathroom as much. I'm also I know that blood sugar mix definitely affects my mood. And so that's always been an eye has also helped with my mood and keeping that good arm or, you know, reasonable and reasonable.

Scott Benner 50:41
I hope people appreciate that when you said that sometimes when your blood sugar is low, you can get crappy that I did not make any kind of a SpongeBob SquarePants reference at all and call your crappy Patty.

Patti 50:52
Do it all the time at work? Yeah, well.

Scott Benner 50:58
God, Patti, I don't even know what you've really just I'm so thrilled listening to what you're saying that I've now become a listener to the podcast that I'm not hosting it anymore. And I apologize to everybody for that. But I but I hope you can understand I just It's never happened before I just listening to you talk about about what start, you know where you were? And how and I guess maybe it's not even where you are right? As much as it is for how long you were there? And then, because I mean, I'm guessing but 23 years into it. I don't imagine you thought this was ever getting better.

Patti 51:35
No, I can, um, I had a pretty grim outlook. And I would always get frustrated myself. Because, you know, I would tell my things like, well, if I can go to nursing school and survive nursing, why can't I take care of my blood sugar? Like, you know, why? Why can I do one area of my life, but it seems like, you know, the diabetes is always an epic fail.

Scott Benner 52:02
So you even your successes made you feel bad?

Patti 52:06
Yeah, yeah, somewhat, or I would go on these, like, spurts where like, I'd be I'd be really focused on tape, or pouting, or whatever. And, but that would only last like a week and a half or something. And then

Scott Benner 52:24
that's why I don't count carbs.

Unknown Speaker 52:26
It bums me out.

Scott Benner 52:27
So lot of insulin, little bit of insulin that took this much last time, that kind of thing. That Bolus you heard me give Arden at the beginning of a podcast. I didn't. I tried to remember what was an early lunch. And then I was just like, just randomly picked the number of insulin not randomly, but I chose a I chose a bolus and we're What are you and I about? Gosh, we're 15 minutes into this. And I didn't talk about it up front. But Arden's blood sugar was a little stuck today. So it was 140 on our CGM, when she said it was time to Pre-Bolus for for lunch. I gave her 10 units, you know, which is meaningless to other people. It's, you know, obviously, the amount of insulin for the amount of food is different for everybody. But I gave her 10 units with an extended bolus. So I gave her 60% of it or six units right away. And I told the I told her to extend it over a half an hour. So they the remaining four units when and over the next 30 minutes. She didn't stop. She didn't start eating for 15 minutes after the balls probably have to take a drink. I'm sorry. Um, she's 120 now. And she's sort of drifting down. She's done eating, I would imagine and now that I've had time to reconsider there where Brock was in her lunch today was yogurt, broccoli to Oreo cookies, a grab bag of blue Doritos. A half a sandwich with Nutella on it. I want to say there was also watermelon a nice slice of watermelon. A iced tea with no sugar.

Unknown Speaker 54:00
And

Scott Benner 54:05
I don't know if there was something else or not. I think that was probably it. But best guess if I sit here and think about it, the bread probably was, I don't know. 18 carbs. And there was probably what? Eight carbs and atella the chips are probably 20 an hour up to like 40 I know the cookies word another 20. So that's 60 watermelon doesn't seem to touch her. She won't actually eat much of her yogurt. So I don't know maybe another 10 there. And then from there, the broccoli nothing and you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And then a unit or so for their blood sugar that I wanted to come down and 10 but I didn't do any of that math when I was talking to you in the beginning or when she was there just yesterday. It took nine units to bring her the nine and a half To get her at lunch, and she didn't have Oreos, and so I add a little more in some this time. gave her a little more up front I did yesterday. I'm sorry.

Patti 55:09
Oh, one. One thing I'm trying to figure out for me is that my mom makes a lot of homemade things. Take things so well yeah,

Scott Benner 55:22
I understand what you're saying. I just went I did you cut up for a second. I wasn't certain that you said cake things. But I got your homemade cake things. Good thing big cake. I understand Krabby Patty all the sudden, ah, yeah, I'm just

Patti 55:33
so and, and I always have trouble figuring out our content in there. And I saw this. There's this scanner out there where you can scan the food and it figures out the chemical emanation and reflect fight back to it. And then you can figure out how much carbohydrate is in this. And you use the weight of it really figure it out? And it actually is, it has worked out pretty well. You have? I do. Wow.

Scott Benner 56:08
Is it a tricorder? Star Trek reference? I

Unknown Speaker 56:12
don't know how that.

Unknown Speaker 56:15
What's it called?

Patti 56:16
I think it's called. Ah, no, or it's spelled i o si. Oh,

Scott Benner 56:24
look at that. That's amazing. Now I would tell you cut a piece of cake. Give yourself some insulin for it. If it takes more insulin to bring your blood sugar back down next time you have a piece of cake use that amount. Right. But then I wouldn't get a cool laser beam. So you know,

Patti 56:40
if I wanted a dinner date or something, I could take out dinner and

Scott Benner 56:47
you can also see how many cards they are. So what is it? I'm now online, we're now doing the least interesting thing on a podcast. I'm going to Google something so what's it called?

Patti 56:56
Um, it's spelled i O.

Unknown Speaker 57:01
It's about carbs. Let's

Patti 57:06
make an app that goes on your phone and you have to select the category that you're scanning. I'm

Scott Benner 57:18
pulling into question my, my Google foo here. It's not going well. Nutrition guidance si. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 57:28
personal training.

Scott Benner 57:30
All right, you're gonna have to send me a link you have a link that you can share with me.

Unknown Speaker 57:34
Yeah, I don't. I'm telling it right.

Unknown Speaker 57:43
I'm just gonna try to try quarter instead while you're doing that.

Patti 57:46
Oh, it's called diet

Scott Benner 57:50
diet sensor. Which by the way is not as I Oh, hold on the sensor. Diet sensor. Oh,

diet sensor calm. Let's take a look. That's not a laser beam. That's a little bit of a letdown Patty, but Okay, it looks pretty. So personal, nutritional advanced, Hillary. Alright, I'm gonna check it out. I am, why not? Give it a shot. So

Patti 58:17
you just always pretend that there's a laser beam. Oh, don't worry. I

Scott Benner 58:20
will. Though. Don't you worry. Patti. There's gonna be a laser beam when I push the button If I get this thing. I'm gonna check into it. I really I mean, why don't you tell me you put you do it and it tells me how many carbs are in my food. If I know the weight of the thing.

Patti 58:36
Yeah, I can stand up bread and it'll give me the amount for a certain amount of weight but then I put it on sale and I just plug in the number for how much it weighs. And then it gives me the amount of carbs for that and I tested it out on a piece of candy and it was very accurate.

Scott Benner 59:03
Is it expensive?

Patti 59:06
Like 240

Scott Benner 59:08
right I'm gonna look into it nobody go get it. Yeah, we'll try it we'll try it out see if we can find our see if we can get him to send us one and give it a shot. Okay. All right, Patty. Listen, we're up towards an hour you are absolutely delightful. I said earlier I was delightful but that's not true you are and and seriously I just really appreciate you doing this I appreciate your reaching out and the thank you note was just really well received on my end I want you to know and i i genuinely appreciate the getting it but your story just in general just it knocked me over and and now that to hear it you know spoken in your words is even it's a little more than I could handle today. Obviously everybody there's gonna be people are going to people who listen to podcast and be like there was minutes where Scott didn't talk, which must have been bizarre. They must have thought my microphone was not broken. I was just just kept listening to what Patti was saying. And thinking Wow, she's she's come so far and and, and your perseverance is seriously admirable because I've I don't know that I could have like slog through 23 years and still found like light at the end of the tunnel I I might have given up so I it's just amazing what you're doing and I want to congratulate you on it and wish you the best of luck moving forward with it.

Patti 1:00:26
Well, thank you for doing these podcasts. Don't stop

Scott Benner 1:00:31
it I won't stop a lot of pressure for me, but okay. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:36
well listen all the time with them so

Scott Benner 1:00:39
well, Patti, you're in luck. And I joked with somebody the other day. So probably somebody who hear me say this twice. But I've sold ads for the year already. So I'm stuck. I can't stop whether I want to or not at this point, I have a podcast. But actually, you know what, joking aside, that's really great. Because the sponsors, you know, make the podcast possible with my time and and that kind of thing. And in the times when I'm sort of like, Oh, God, Do I really have to do this right now? Like, I go, Yeah, I do. And then you know, and it doesn't happen to me often. But there's, you know, you can imagine that sometimes life will get away from me or I was sick when I had to put one out one day, and I was just like, the last thing I wanted to do was sit down at my computer and, and, and put together edit and upload an episode. But I just was like, You know what, like, I've made promises to people. And so I followed through, not that I need that every day, most days. It's just really cool to talk to people like you. But but but seriously, I appreciate it. I don't I need to stop talking because I sound I know I sound foolish today. So thank you very much. I wish you just a ton of success moving forward. And please, I hope you keep in touch.

Patti 1:01:47
I will. And thank you very much.

Scott Benner 1:01:50
Now you're it's really My pleasure. Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day. Oh my god, Patti is adorable. She really is. My mood just got better hearing her voice at the end say you to listen guys, thank you so much to Patti for being open on us talking about her, her sadness and her anger and all the things that she's done to try to get herself back from those feelings. That's really incredible. Thank you also on the pod at Dexcom for sponsoring the Juicebox Podcast, you guys can go to my omnipod.com forward slash juice box, or dexcom.com forward slash juice box or go to Juicebox Podcast com links in your show notes. Please find a way to get these great devices to try. Next week, we're going to do an episode with all you Instagram folks out there T one Junebug. You're gonna like it a lot. It's really great. and with any luck, I'll have a little update for you about Arden and her blood pressure will be back to normal. I'm hoping knock on some wood here. And that's pretty much it. I'm sorry for my lack of enthusiasm during the ads and stuff that I just there's a lot going on here. I'll see you guys next week.

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Scott Benner 5/14/18 Scott Benner 5/14/18

#165 Gouda Monkey

Can't you hear the thunder, George is from a land down under....

In this episode we talk about type 1 diabetes, MDI, Freestyle Libre and a lot more. You better run, you better take cover! fyi: The episode title has almost nothing to do with anything.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - google play/android - iheart radio - or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages. This is Episode 165, the Juicebox Podcast. And as always, it's brought to you today by Dexcom. And on the pod, you have a lot of options to find out more about those two great companies. You can listen to the ads later in the show, which I suggest you do, because I make them fun. You can also go to Juicebox podcast.com. To find links. You can find links in the show notes in your podcast app. Or you can type olden times dexcom.com forward slash juice box Endor and why not end? My omnipod.com forward slash juice box? I'm gonna think of a title for this episode right now live while we're talking. Part of me wants to call it Gouda monkey you'll find out later why part of me wants to call it something simple like George down on earth because George's from Australia. Part of me says though Scott be a little more creative in that a little more creative. And I say to you, I don't know if I can. What else could this one be called? Milk, the silent killer. Again, you'll find out why later. I can't just tell y'all right now if I tell you all right now it's gonna be the whole episode. And then it'll be like listen to the episode where you can just go listen to the episode. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should ever be considered advice, medical or otherwise. I am not a doctor. Always consult a physician before becoming bold with insulin. What about Australian Gouda monkey? Gouda monkey Gouda monkey. Do you love those two words together? They they fascinate me. Let me just warn you now that George's multicultural accent is going to just lull you into a happy spot. Hello, George. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Good here it's like Ilan musk Crocodile Dundee. And James Bond had a baby away. Do you think that should be the title of the episode? What if James Bond Ilan musk and Crocodile Dundee had a baby? That's pretty obtuse and odd. It's not as strange as Google monkey though. Huh?

George 2:19
What did we do like 10 years ago, we like actually phone each other or something, I suppose. And you'd sit there with like a microphone and hold it against the phone. And then I try not to move.

Scott Benner 2:27
I can't even imagine my I listen, I can't even get my son to call people he's known as whole life. You know, like, I said, you guys are texting back and forth. It seems like you're just misunderstanding each other. I said, I think if you spoke for 30 seconds, this would be fixed. But we don't do that as well. I don't know what that even means. Just call him now that you want that they would they wouldn't even consider it. This. This past summer was actually great. Because during his baseball recruiting process, he actually had to call coaches on the phone and speak to them. So that was actually part of his upbringing. I don't even know that. I don't know what he would do. I don't even know didn't know how to speak on the phone if it wasn't for this one thing. So

George 3:07
yeah, I have exactly that nowadays. Like I'm so used to texting, so used to sending emails that I can make. I could actually just phone this company. I could call them and make an appointment and see this person. It just never occurred to me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 3:19
no, it is. It's interesting. I'm very much still a phone call person I like to even when if people contact me kind of outside of the podcast, and they have like this, like specific question about like diabetes, I'll always say just, you know, you should just call me. Because what are we going to do? We're going to go back and forth through email 50 times, you're going to ask a question, I'm going to misunderstand it, I'm going to go through this long explanation that you're going to misunderstand. So we could talk for 10 minutes, you'd understand.

George 3:45
So now you miss all the context and you miss the inflections and people's voices. And I guess we've lost something by going on to text and it's hard to see what you've lost until you realize you've lost that. I guess now

Scott Benner 3:56
that that I think is 100% true. Okay, so what time is it where you are right now? I tend to one in the morning. Okay, so everyone, first of all, we've had people sit in their cars on their lunch breaks in the sweltering heat to be on the podcast. But I don't know if anyone's ever sat up till one o'clock in the morning to do the podcast. So George, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you listening from obviously we can tell from your accent you're from Minnesota, is that correct?

George 4:22
I live in Australia, where I'm actually gonna have to try my really my hardest not to swear just by default we swear about everything. So yeah, not to swear not to throw too many of these lying around, I guess.

Scott Benner 4:34
Well, the the slang is fine, because we can always go backwards and explain it but the swearing if it gives you any hope. And I don't know how much the people who listen to this podcast would or would not believe this, but I curse throughout my day. As if just I don't know I use cursing as joining words, adjectives verbs, it doesn't matter really. There's a lot of cursing, but I somehow I can get on here and I can stop myself. So um I don't know how that happens. Exactly, but I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that

George 5:05
sounds like you'd fit in here just fine. Oh, I

Scott Benner 5:07
think I'd be okay. Except for. Are there snakes there?

Unknown Speaker 5:13
Yeah,

Scott Benner 5:13
I'm not coming.

George 5:14
Yeah, we have we have lots of dangerous and deadly things. It's quite good.

Scott Benner 5:18
What is that? Like? Listen, we have to take a couple of seconds here. Like, what's it? So around here lately? I am in New Jersey right now the most dangerous thing that is outside? Is? I don't know, I don't think there's any real danger where I live. I mean, I guess a deer could come through my yard lose its mind and crap in my grass. Like, I mean, I guess it's the best that I could imagine that could happen to me. But do you have that feeling like you go outside and think I have to like, are you brought up that way? Like, I can't I have to make sure there's not a spider on me or something like that? Or is it just does it not get funded? Like,

George 5:55
um, probably the most dangerous thing. I live in the inner city. So probably the most dangerous thing that I see is like cars. They're pretty dangerous. They are flying middleboxes not good for your health when they hit you. But, you know, like, I used to live outside the city. And yeah, there's all sorts of stuff that kills you, and you just get used to avoiding it.

Scott Benner 6:16
And it's interesting. Do you actually know a person who's been, like, felled by a animal?

Unknown Speaker 6:24
Ah, no.

Scott Benner 6:27
So that's interesting.

George 6:28
I mean, you you see all the videos on the internet and stuff, right? Like, like when you see the spiders eating birds. I mean, that's, that's unsettling. Right? I don't like that either. I don't live in those places.

Scott Benner 6:41
Okay, so we have some context. You're in a city. You're not. You're not on some large flat piece of sand somewhere.

George 6:50
Yeah, I used to live. I mean, I used to live on a farm. We had this crazy idea that they were going to farm and be great. Until we realized that like, nobody would even deliver takeout to a farm. So that was like, we decided already crap idea and gave up after about a year and a half.

Scott Benner 7:04
You seem like a fairly free spirit from when we go back and forth. So So tell me, let's let's figure out who you are. Exactly. How old are you?

George 7:11
So I'm, what, 3637 years old? I have to do the math sometimes. Because after a while you stopped counting? Of course. Yeah. 36.

Scott Benner 7:20
Yeah. What, what year or how old? were you when you were diagnosed with type one?

George 7:24
So I am actually coming up with my diversity in three days. Oh, wow. So I've had it for about a year.

Scott Benner 7:31
And so 35 years old, suddenly you have type one diabetes?

George 7:36
I know. Right? Um, and yeah, I mean, like, I had all the usual symptoms and just kind of, you know, googling things and going like, No, no, Surely it's not that, like, what are the chances that this is this is no, this is impossible. And then I went and saw my doctor. And, you know, I described to my doctor and said, a few of these symptoms, he's like, looks at me, he goes, Well, you pretty healthy, it's impossible. And then, you know, doing some just regular blood tests, I get my bloods done once a year anyway, because I live on a plant based diet. So I kind of want to check that I have a line minerals and, you know, everything's just running smoothly. So, you know, once a year, I go off and get everything checked. And Saturday morning, the next morning, the doctor calls me says you should come in now, and that's never a good call. You know, like, if everything's okay, they'll wait till Monday, but they did not wait till Monday. Are you a vegan or vegetarian? Or how do you? So I like to I like to say I live on a plant based diet. I'm not 100% vegan. I do run into the occasional animal products and I don't lose my you know, lose my marbles when that happens. Okay, so I don't like the connotations of the word as well. I find sometimes when you say you're vegan, it just comes with a whole boat of other stuff. Okay. But it is a lifestyle. I tried to leave like I don't use animal products. I'm not not big on the cruelty. I think that industry's got got a lot to answer for. And I found myself a lot healthier since I switched off all animal products and just doing a live on pole, the whole food

Unknown Speaker 9:03
cow. How long ago did you make that change?

George 9:06
Ah, four or five years. I mean, I've been vegetarian probably for the last 15 years on and off. But then about four years ago, my wife was she was on a mission to prove a point is that you you eat too much cheese. And I was like, okay, maybe you have a point here. And then we started doing some investigations. And after a while, we kind of went Yeah, we do eat too much cheese. And actually, it's not very good for you. So we should probably stop this. And in the process. She actually also ended up on a plant based diet as well.

Scott Benner 9:32
So are you here to say that a plant based diet Causes Type One Diabetes? Is that what this is about this,

George 9:37
this very well might be right.

Scott Benner 9:41
I tell people, like you're being healthy, it's gonna kill you.

George 9:47
being alive is the leading cause of death losing leading cause of death, right?

Scott Benner 9:50
There's a road in Philadelphia that's named after this person. I can't remember at this point, but it's from my childhood and he was this just avid runner and he died running on this road. Have a heart attack. And so the name that wrote after my I always thought it was a, it was a way to warn people against running. I didn't know, I wasn't sure what they were trying to accomplish by naming the road after that this road kills runners is what I always thought. Now, obviously, so I'm joking. Nothing causes type one diabetes, you have a autoimmune disease. So okay, so this is interesting to tell that the more people right, people knew that I don't think anyone's eccentric, I always feel like this, I run into people all the time who don't understand. I always try to go home and think about all the things I don't understand, you know what I mean? Like, so there's a million things that I don't get. And if someone came up to me and had this horrible personal experience wrapped around, you know, I don't know, it makes something out of anything, and you approached me with it, I wouldn't know the your level of how it's impacted you, I wouldn't know how to properly talk to you about it so that you wouldn't feel offended or, or, or just, you know, horrible. I always try to feel that way. And diabetes is just, I don't know, it's one of those things. I wish people didn't joke about it. I would like to not turn on the television and hear somebody make an offhanded joke about diabetes. And at the same time, when I do I don't really think much of it. I wish they wouldn't I know it probably causes a larger misunderstanding. But this is a misunderstanding that is so large at this point that I don't know how you would. I don't, I don't know how you would fix that like, like, you know, this, you know, this giant Slurpee from 711 is going to give me diabetes is is just, it's it's just it's there's throwaway lines to people trying to make stupid jokes. You know, I don't know how I don't even know how you take a person like that, hold them down long enough, educate them about it, and then make them promise not to do it again. I don't know, I don't see a way around it, honestly.

George 11:48
I mean, it's really, really sad actually. Because, I mean, from one aspect, I don't blame people who don't understand and don't know, or I get a bit upset or tired is when I see it coming out of you know, people who should actually know better folks who studied some basic medicine, or, you know, have involvement or have actually some sort of risk factor or something like that, where they've been told by their doctor, hey, you know, you have pre diabetes, and it just doesn't do anything for them. And I think they just kind of shrug it off a whole bunch. And, yeah, that's where it gets really disappointing to me. I mean, I know we're looking more tattoos there. But I guess, there aren't

Scott Benner 12:29
near but I think that's the real danger, too, is that when, and I've I've met people before I've typed too, and they don't even really, no one's really even explained it to them. Like it was just like, it was like someone told them, hey, you have a vitamin D deficiency take this vitamin once a day. And you know, it'll be okay. And they, I've met a lot of people with type two who treat it that way. By the way, I've met people with type one who treat their type one like that, like I just inject, you know, I bring my highs down. And that's it, like people do that. And it's sad, but I don't know if you're I don't I've never really been political on the podcast at all. But it really bothered me last week, and I don't know if it's ever going to be found that I don't think anyone's ever going to call him on it. I was hoping that, that a media outlet would but I guess it's not going to happen. But there's, you know, you know, unconfirmed reports that that in the course of talking about Supreme Court nominees, that Trump when he got the Sonia Sotomayor just said, I forget what the quote was that somebody asked how he was planning on replacing her and he said, her health no good diabetes. And that, you know, if he really said that, you know, forget the political aspects of it. I'm not, I don't care about that side of it. I care about the idea that there's somebody at the top who just looks at someone with Type One Diabetes and thinks, Oh, you don't have to worry about her, she'll be dead soon. You know, like, that's that? How does that when conversations about health care come up? Are you really someone who that person's thinking, hey, if we help these people, they can live better? Is he looking at you like, Well, you know, we'll just, we'll do what's humane until you drop dead? You know what I mean? Like, that's, that would be my fear there.

George 14:12
Yeah, I mean, it really, to me, it indicates a lack of compassion and empathy. And, you know, as soon as we lose compassion and empathy for the people around us, no matter who we are, really, we lose, I think, a critical part of what it means to be human and what it means to live in a functioning society. And then from that aspect, I think it's incredibly sad.

Scott Benner 14:33
Yep. And that I think, is what you were talking about. It's just people who are actually in the position to affect something are when they don't understand and they need to or they should. That's the that's horrifying. Even you hear stories all the time people who go to their endocrinologist and the level of direction they get from their endo sometimes is specious. It's it's a, it's kind of fascinating that you're going to a doctor who doesn't completely get what you're asking them about and they are taking the same approach when you stop and think about it, and I talked about here all the time, like, I think that people get, like, Don't die today advice, sometimes they don't get be healthy advice. And if you really kind of extrapolate that out that you don't have to have your blood sugar here, you know, it can be 200 all day, that's fine. When you when you're getting bad advice, what that's really saying to you is you should not have an expectation of a healthy life. So you have diabetes. So now this is going to happen to you, and it is going to give you long term complications, or it's going to shorten your existence, or whatever it is, that acceptance from a medical person is staggering. You know, not to want to try harder, or try something else, you might be trying as hard as you can, but try something else, you know, make an adjustment, then, then I, that's probably pretty much why the podcast is here, because that that just upsets me.

George 15:51
Yeah, I think it's really shocking in that the way we have our medical system set up at this time, is one that optimizes for really short term outcomes, as opposed to just looking at the rest of your life. And, you know, I mean, I hear these shocking stories about people who've been to a doctor here and a doctor there and a doctor here and a doctor there. And over the years, they've just, you know, sort of accreted medication, and then been admitted to hospital. And then at that point, in time, somebody actually had a chance to look at all the hospitals, or look at all the medication they're on and they're taking, you know, 25 pills, and they slowly wind it all back. And the person, you know, gets better. Yeah. And you kind of go well, it's not really rocket science. But, you know, at some point in time, the, there's a disconnect, like, I think, whole bunch of information is lost between transfer between doctors, but then each doctor does the really, really, really safe thing. And, you know, sometimes they're really safe thing is a good thing to do. But a lot of the time, you don't really get anywhere by stepping in staying inside your comfort zone, you've got to step outside your comfort zone, you've got to engage a little bit more, and you've got to accept that you can die, because you can die. But you know, like, I'm gonna die either way. So am I gonna die, like, I have a small, very small risk of dying, like, in the next couple of days, which I do kind of have anyway, right? Because I live in a city and I go drive cars flying past me. But, you know, also you're gonna do I died definitely, like, really early and young, because I just didn't pay any attention to the management of my disease. And I think what happens is, when you have somebody like an endocrinologist who makes those decisions for you, they never give you the choice, they just kind of go, it's safer for me, if they know you don't die today. So I'm just gonna go with that, right. And then you didn't even know that

Scott Benner 17:32
you could live longer kind of thing. If we can stretch your life out just long enough, when you go, I can say up said complications of Type One Diabetes wasn't my fault. And I don't think everyone even has that. I don't even want to say that. That's the intention. It's just, it's funny, as you were talking just now, I thought, when we started speaking at the beginning, I'm gonna have to leave it in now, where we're just talking about texting versus phone calls, really is the same thing in medicine, like it's the texting is that idea of something quick and immediate. And, you know, gratifying like I did this, and I heard right back, and that was it. But you lose all the context. And the same thing with medicine as you go in for these quick visits. No, it's not a real conversation. It's they're asking you the questions. They feel like they're, you know, the practice tells them to ask you, you answer them, it never goes anywhere. You know, it's meaningless. They're just trying to mine out information. But wouldn't it be better if you could actually sit and talk and maybe through the conversation, figure out what you're concerned about? Or what the doctor is trying to find out? But it doesn't work that way. So

George 18:35
yeah, I mean, I kind of get it as well as right. From one aspect to healthcare as a volume business, we have, you know, however, many hundred million of us and we've got to be kept alive. And so if we all go to the doctor all the time, like there just isn't any time for this. And so, you know, the doctors are overworked? And yeah, it's a difficult solution, a difficult problem to fix, I

Scott Benner 18:54
guess. Well, I think it is that i think that i think what you just said, and what I believe is you're not going to fix it. I think it is what it is, then the rest of it falls on you. And I you know, what are we going to like you said, What? Are we going to go home and try to figure out on our own? What are we going to stand up for ourselves for and push a little harder when we don't like the answer that comes back. And that's, that's what I find most when I speak to people is that they just, you know, I said it over and over again. But there are these, the few people in society that you just you're, you're bred, grown up told not to question them, you know, doctors are smarter than you. They went to more school, they're, you know, somehow they're magical. You don't ask them questions, they ask you questions, police officers, teachers, people, you're supposed to just blindly kind of follow. And I just don't buy into that in. You know, I say it here all the time. Like I don't buy into that in all walks of life, except if a cop asked me to put my hands up, I'm absolutely going to do that. But But that's only because he has a gun. So, you know, I never was once a person who listened and said, well, you're older than me. So you must automatically be cracked, or you know, so when you feel something Inside about your diabetes, you have to speak up. You can't You can't just take this like head in the sand approach, or you know, as my have watched my mom lived her whole life like this, my mom is I will cross that bridge when we come to a kind of a person. And I was like, Mom, why don't we have a plan for when the bridge gets here, when that'd be better? You know? And so, the small one doesn't have to be huge. But let's not spend a month standing at the foot of the bridge going, hmm. Wonder what we should do? You know, especially with your health. That's all. George, why are you on the podcast? I forget.

Unknown Speaker 20:36
Yeah.

George 20:38
I think we spoke, you put out a call a couple of weeks ago, a couple of months ago, I don't remember. And you were saying look, you know, you're looking for people who are on MDI, and who are doing pretty well. And so I said, put my hand up, and Well, look, I'm doing okay. Okay, so I thought I would come on and talk about that for a bit, maybe

Scott Benner 20:53
go. Okay. But before we do that, let's talk about Omni pod for a minute. The world's most incredible insulin pump. And it's tubeless. I've received two separate messages just today, one from a person who listened to the podcast, and began the Omni pod and is just starting today, and the other from someone who began months ago, and was reporting back about their endocrinologist appointment. And I'm not going to give you any other details. But how about the sentence, I've been stocking the sevens and lo aids for a couple of years. And because of the Omni pod and the Juicebox Podcast, I'm now below 6.5. Come on. That's an amazing drop. All you need are the right tools, and the right ideas about how to use them. And I'm telling you right now the Omni pod is 100,000% the right tool, you should go right now to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box or click on the link in your show notes or Juicebox podcast.com. And try the free no obligation demo pod today free, no obligation free and no obligation. All you do is fill in your information and on the pod sends you out a demo pod. From there, you can do whatever you want with it, you could put it under a short table like to make it's not rocket if you wanted to. But that would be a waste. When what you really should do is try it on and wear it and see what you think. And after you inevitably love it, start getting the on the pot insulin pump for yourself. Come on guys, Spring Summer is going to be here soon. Get rid of the tubing. I'll tell you what, I'll leave a little extra music here. So you can get your computer right now go to Juicebox podcast.com. Click on the link here. I'll even turn it up for you Samsung.

Unknown Speaker 22:39
Gouda monkey, monkey, monkey, monkey.

Scott Benner 22:43
You know, right away, most people are going to hear that you're on a plant based diet and you're on MDI and they're gonna go Of course you are you don't eat any carbs. But how many carbs Do you take in in the course of a day?

George 22:54
I eat somewhere in the region of it depends on the day, right? Like today was about 100 because I wasn't feeling particularly Caribbean, you know, but other days, I can eat anywhere up to 250. Okay. So it most I realized that for most of my calories I find if I eat entirely carbs, I just I'm hungry all the time. Until I find like if I as long as I have fat with every single meal. So things like avocado or lack of mayonnaise, or nuts or anything that sort of just stretches out the time in between meals where I just feel hungry, I feel satiated for a little bit a lot longer. I don't rely very heavily on Protein Protein Shake in the morning when I've done some exercise. That's about the extent of protein I get. But you know, like nobody ever shows up the doctor with a protein deficiency. So I'm not worried about them.

Scott Benner 23:41
Do you have any diabetes technology are using? I mean, yeah, so I use a I use a freestyle Libra.

George 23:47
Okay, that's what I use as my my. You can't really call it a CGM, but it gives you the data that a CGM gives you. And then I use an app on the iPhone, which I put all my data into. And it gives me predictions of my blood glucose into the future, which is pretty cool.

Scott Benner 24:02
Okay, what's that called?

George 24:03
It's called predict pgl.

Scott Benner 24:06
Is that something it's just about? Is it only available in Australia?

George 24:10
No, I think it's actually globally. And so it's on both Android and iOS. And it's written by a guy who lives down in Victoria, one of the states here. And he's a type one, and his daughter is a type one. And he ended up writing the software because they went on to pumps. And like the software on the pumps, but didn't like being attached to devices, we have a limited range of devices you can get in this country. And so they just weren't, you know, weren't keen on being attached. And, you know, with the tubing and getting caught on door handles and all the various stuff that comes along with that. Yeah, so they switched back on to injections. And when they did so, he wanted the features that you get in the pump. So being able to track bazel rates across the day and being able to track your carb ratios and you know, your correction ratios and then being able to tune for a bunch of different stuff. So being able to put in exercise factors and say, Well, I'm going to go and do exercise now. So for 120 minutes, I'm going to need that percent less incident. So you can plug all of the stuff into that, given your current blue blood glucose reading, give it your carbs, and it'll tell you where it thinks your blood glucose is gonna end up

Unknown Speaker 25:10
how I find it.

George 25:11
I was I was skeptical at first, but I kind of live in the app now. And it's very accurate, like, shockingly accurate.

Scott Benner 25:19
So he's probably got something in that app along the lines of what these artificial pancreas algorithms are going to be like.

George 25:28
Yeah, that's, that's what I expect. And you know, I think, I think quite valuable about the app as well is that you can, it sort of gives you a mental model for how a pancreas works. So you can sort of play around with it. And because it's not a real pancreas, you can also do things you can be like, what if I put a unit in now? What would it do? You can sort of see what it would do? You could be like, what if I ate grams of carbs? What will it do, and it kind of gives you an idea. And so you can sort of poke around without actually doing real things come to a decision. And then you know, make a treatment decision based on that then actually roll back and go and do the treatment decision to yourself, and then have a fairly good idea of where you're going to go.

Scott Benner 26:03
I love that. And so do you find that's teaching you in a way that you almost don't need the app as much as you did in the beginning? Like are you liking? Yeah,

George 26:11
absolutely. I think I think the app help boot me up onto a mental model of how my diabetes worked probably, you know, weeks Foster, like I got, I went through a bunch of apps. When I first started, I started with, I started with my sugar, and I was just logging stuff in, I was logging stuff. And I had them for the pro version, then I was like, Well, why am I logging stuff? This is the most pointless exercise in the world, I get some pretty graphs, but like, what am I doing with this? And then I dug around and I found some other apps and they were the same, I just keep logging stuff. And I'm just like, why am I engaging in all this toil? Like, this makes no sense. And then eventually, I found this app. And then I was logging stuff in was, I was getting something back for my login. And I was like, this is really satisfying. I'm seeing where I'm going.

Scott Benner 26:53
I saw I'm really interested that you said that. Because over the years, I've not to impugn one because I don't I don't have that much knowledge of any of them. But I've had people come at me all the time, like, Oh, you know, we want to talk about our app on your podcast, or can you look at this app for your blog? And, and I always just say, well, what's it do it? Because in the end, it always feels like what you just said, like, so I put in a bunch of information. And then I get a graph, is that correct? And then what do I do? Like, then I have to figure out what the graph means. And I don't know it just at some point. It just seems like so much effort. And it's not like you have an answer. It's just more information. And so I was like, I probably could figure this out without your app, you know, like, and but an app that does something, an app that actually says that what you said earlier is being able to tell it Hey, um, if I did this right now, what do you think would happen? That's fantastic.

George 27:48
Like that. I mean, that is even better than that. What I find is when when you put a reading in, and it doesn't match what the app expects, then the app will say to you, Hey, I didn't expect that this is what I did expect. Here's some reasons why it could be different. So for example, if I put in a reading of, say, a blood sugar of nine, I'd have no idea what that is an American, either

Unknown Speaker 28:12
doesn't matter.

George 28:14
I actually actually have a chart here so that I could I could look this up. So if I put in a blood sugar of like, say 182, right? And the thing was expecting, say somewhere in the region of 100, then it would say to me, Hey, you know, I was expecting 100, you put it in this? You've got it could be this too many, there's too many carbs, like did you accidentally get your carb count wrong, like might have got got around by this month. Or alternatively, maybe you didn't put enough insulin in. So maybe you You said you put in this much, but it wasn't that it was this much too little. So you need to change your carb ratio. Or maybe your correction factor was incorrect, maybe, you know, you initiate a correction, and it didn't come down. And this is typically what happens to me when my basal rate is off. And I'll see that I'll put in corrections. And I'll tell the app that I'm putting in corrections. And then I'll go and put in a you know, another reading maybe another two hours later. And it'll be the same as the one previously and the app will just freak out and be like, Hey, you know, this, you should have come down by a cup. Maybe 20 or 30 points, but you didn't. Why is this can pops up and gives me a little thing. And I'll be like, I just think you can you can dismiss them. And you know, it's just giving you suggestions, but I just dismiss them and be like, Okay, well I know my basal rates wrong. So it just gives you this really, I guess, good understanding for why something might be out. It's interesting. That's really that's really cool. What's it called again? It's called predict bgl

Scott Benner 29:31
wants to take a look and see what it means. That just sounds like worthwhile. I know, are you how do you make adjustments to like you were talking about basal insulin? No, but you're, you're using a long acting base. All right.

George 29:44
Yeah. So I spent a lot of time playing with this. Because I think, you know, bazel is the, it's the foundation of everything we do. And if you get that wrong, then you just you can't build on anything, right? Like you just don't know where you're at. Yeah. And so, so So many times when I see people that like, my insulin just, it's just unpredictable. I'm probably like, well, you probably find your basal rates incorrect, right? So when you think you're injecting for this food, you're not only injecting for this food, you're also covering some of that with you're covering, you know, your base was too low and you weren't covering that. And you know, your body doesn't know the difference between insulin right? Your body insulins insulin. And so you know, if you've got your basal rate out, then it just throws everything out.

Scott Benner 30:29
This weekend, I managed Arden's blood sugar from halfway across the country. Hmm. How did I do that? Did I talk to her constantly? Nope, actually never spoke to her once. You may be wondering, well, how did you do that? Scott? Did you write messages on small scraps of paper, fold them up, stick them in a pocket of a monkey made out of Gouda cheese and have them swing across vines to get to her? No, I didn't do that. That would not be efficient. And the cheese would melt that I use the world's most powerful diabetes tool in conjunction with the world's most powerful communication soul. That is correct. I use a dexcom continuous glucose monitor and text messaging. Pretty cool, huh? So my daughter Arden is wearing the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor that speaks to her cell phone, which speaks to the internet, which speaks to my phone, which tells me what her blood sugar is, and where it's going. From there. I can make treatment decisions with her through text messages, just Hey, why don't you post as much. I'll just set a Temp Basal. She can text me I'm about to eat a cupcake, which she was doing at a swim party while I was away. Try to imagine that is that something you'd be comfortable with because it's something that I'm comfortable with? My 13 year old daughter was at a swim party with Type One Diabetes, where she then one of the cupcake text messages, mere moments of time, hardly interrupted what she was doing. definitely impacted her blood sugar. blood sugar's were great all weekend. There are a ton of amazing things I could say about the dexcom continuous glucose monitor. But this time, they don't want to tell you peace of mind. unparalleled peace of mind. That's what you get. I know you want it dexcom.com forward slash juice box with the links in your show notes. Were at Juicebox podcast.com. Do not hesitate. Your body doesn't know the difference between insulin right your body insulins insulin. And so you know, if you've got your basal rate out, then it just throws everything out. If you have your basal is really in check you can make you can manipulate your blood sugar with bazel. You don't even need to, you know there are times you don't even need to Bolus like when Arden woke up this morning, her blood sugar was 140. And I wanted it to come down. So I just increased her Basal for an hour. And now I don't know where it's at. Whoa, I can look. She is 109. So that worked out Yeah. And that was it. But if if, if her bazel was off to light and I start bolusing then I still don't have the bazel The bazel is still not there yet time still moves forward, your your body is still forcing your blood sugar up. Because you don't have this this background and someone holding it down where it's supposed to. It gets lost so easily. Nobody even thinks about it. You know, it's cool that you are actually so are you? Do you want a pump?

George 33:33
Ah, no, no, I mean, so from two aspects. I want a pump because it has 10 phases. And that's the entire reason I want a pump. The reasons I don't want a pump is I do a ton of hot room yoga. And I just think the insulin will cook inside a really hot room. And then also just I'm not huge on things being attached to me. But I mean, the other thing is, I feel like I've got great control. So I mean, I'm just not going to mess with it.

Scott Benner 33:59
And so how much of that do you feel like? Is your basals? Really? Can you hear bazel? He is snoring like crazy today? bazel please? bazel making a podcast? What are you doing? It's just I don't have that dog snores like crazy. I'm sorry. Do you how much of that you put towards the the idea of the plant based diet? Like if you like, do you think if I I don't know, if you weren't eating that way that you'd feel differently? Like how much of MDI is not much of a problem for me. I've got this predictive data from this, this app,

George 34:31
do you think is fun? I think it's I think it's a combination of factors, right? Like, I think you've got to, you've got to set your life up so that when you stumble, you fall into the pit of success. And if you do that, then everything becomes easy. And so like over time, I've just made all these incremental changes and the sum of all those incremental changes has been a great outcome. So you know, I've never done my best All right, that took me that took me so long to you know, changing various insolence and I was trying different things. And there's a whole story behind that. And then, at the same time, like, I'm on a plant based diet, so I eat a diet low in saturated fat. And I did a bunch of research into that, and turns out saturated fat blocks, the signaling pathway between insulin receptors and the glucose pumps inside the cells. And so I see this and I started noticing this, like when I eat junk food that's high in saturated fat, and my insulin sensitivity just goes out the window for about a day. And so I was like, Okay, well, they're great as treats, but maybe I'm going to cut down on that. So I started cutting down on that. And then I, you know, I did a lot of exercise. And I noticed when I do the exercise, my insulin sensitivity goes away through the roof. And I was like, Okay, well, how much exercise do I have to do? And so I eventually settled on, you know, I do Adrien Bikram yoga, Bikram yoga, like once every two days, because if I do it once every four or five days, then everything just becomes all wonky. But if I do it every second day, I just stayed nice and flat and level. And so I think the sum of all these things that I do I just end up, I just don't, it doesn't really feel like work after a while. And then I don't have to pay that much attention. And everything just seems easy. And how do you have?

Scott Benner 36:07
How do you have time? Like, what is your lifestyle like that, that you can do the yoga like every other day? Like if you asked me to do anything every other day, I would tell you, I couldn't commit to it. So how does that like, what do you do for a living that, like you work from your home or like that kind of stuff.

George 36:27
So I'm at the moment, I'm on a year sabbatical, I decided to take a year off, just to figure out how to learn my disease. And I'm in the fortunate position that I work for a software company, and we had a good year, good couple of years. So I decided, like, this is my year that I wanted to take off. But even prior to that, I mean, I've been doing yoga for years. And so I'll typically do you know, get up and go to a 6am class or 7:45am class and do yoga for 90 minutes, and then finish up, have a shower, go to work and work for the day and come home. I mean, I live in the inner city. So everything's on foot that substantially helps my lifestyle I don't ever get in a car. And I have this very expensive hunk of metal that just sits down in a parking space that I pay money every week for and it just gets me I just got the insurance and they're like pay some money for the car, you don't use it.

Scott Benner 37:20
Do you ever, you know just not drive at all, these are just something you

Unknown Speaker 37:23
do once every two weeks.

George 37:25
Maybe we might go do some shopping once every two weeks. But we when we used to live out on the farm, as I was saying like that you just needed a car. Like as I say nobody would even bring you take out. So you just you could not get by without a car. But here in the inner city, it's just too painful, right like so you have to find parking, and you just, you can't do things with cars in inner cities. It just doesn't work. And so we tend to do everything on foot, both my wife and I, we just walk everywhere. And you know, that's been a substantial factor in my health as well. Because now all of a sudden, I'm just getting exercise as part of my day to day routine.

Scott Benner 38:02
How long were you married when you were diagnosed?

George 38:06
We've been married probably about five, six years, but we've been together about 15. Okay, so you,

Scott Benner 38:12
you know your wife for 16 years, and you're diagnosed pretty much at the end of that 15 so far, how did how was it for her? Did you notice? Did you notice any shift in your relationship? Or? Did it cause weirdness or strengthen things? or What did you notice happening?

George 38:30
I don't think it caused weirdness. I think it caused, I mean, from one aspect, I'm a bit of a bit of a test tube for her. So she's studying medicine. And so she's been focusing a lot recently on diabetes. Just ironically, actually, at the time I was diagnosed, excuse me, she was writing a term paper on diabetes. And she was like, Hey, I think you have diabetes. And I was like, No, surely not. She's like, No, no, I'm studying it right now. I think you do. So that was that was a good giggle. But you know, I think it had it had the effect on her on her mental health. Just in terms of like this, somebody you love, and now you worry for them. And you're like, like, what are they doing, how they manage this, and she doesn't really get involved in the day to day management. But she kind of gets involved in the day to day worrying if that makes sense. Do you

Scott Benner 39:17
ever wake up in the middle of the night and she's creeping next year with the Libra holding it up against the sensor or? Yeah. Let me just see real quick. And that's interesting. You You said something about the Libra earlier about it not really being a continuous glucose monitor. I agree with you. I think what it does is really cool. I think it's a Do you use it as a big meter? Is it kind of how you say it like a meter that you don't have to poke your finger for or do you have a meter and you use the lever? How does that work?

George 39:45
So there's a little there's actually a little finger prick meter built into the Libra. Okay, so I kind of use that I use, you do use the test strips on that. But I mean I do kind of obsessively scan probably once every half an hour but it Honestly, what what ends up happening i think is and you probably experienced this as well is that after a while, get it, you get a good sense of where your blood sugar is going and where it's at. And so you just periodically checking in and the time for doing a reading is, you know, just seconds. And so in terms of Am I am I just picking up a picking up a device and looking at it? Or am I picking up the device waving it against my arm and then looking at it the difference is not all that big. And what I would like those integration for say, you know, something on my watch, or maybe some alarms those, those would be really nice. But I've gotten gotten pretty talented at the sort of the wake up in the middle of the night scan myself keep the light on underneath the blanket, make sure not to wipe my wake my wife up and then when I know everything's okay, go back to sleep. And like did I actually scan last night?

Scott Benner 40:49
I was explaining to somebody the other day that art was getting braces. And you know, he was talking about it kind of now he has braces and what do you do and she doesn't eat food overnight frequently. But there are times where ardently to banana like in her sleep. And I said it so offhandedly. As I was talking to him, you could see the conversation just brown to a halt. And his look came over his face. And I said oh, I'm gonna have to explain that to you, I guess. And so I you know, I said so Arden can eat a banana while she's sleeping, if I hold it. And that started to make more sense to him. And he goes, I don't understand. I said, I just say Arden, your blood sugar is low, we're going to eat a banana. And then I touch her lips with the banana. And then she takes a bite of it. And then when she's done, she chews and she swallows, I give her more until I've given her as much as I want. I said then we try to rinse your mouth out with some water. And but if you ask her The next day, she has no recollection of that whatsoever. And so I said I guess technically Arden could eat a banana in her sleep. And I even after the explanation, he still sort of just you could tell he was not 100% sure what was happening. It was interesting.

George 41:55
I don't believe this. Like I get that I wake up some mornings. And I'm like, I wonder how many times I woke up last night to scan my blood sugar. And it'll be like four or five, but I don't really remember.

Scott Benner 42:04
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I can't do the wake up go back to the sleep thing. So I'm more of get it definitely right and then pass out kind of got I once I don't know I have a hard time. Like going back to sleep waking up and going back to sleep that kills me, it's almost better for me to stay up sometimes.

George 42:24
Just think I spent years on call working in a technology company with you know, some random service somewhere would go down in the infrastructure and you'd get paged, and you'd have to get up and function. And so over the years, I developed this ability to essentially wake up function for five minutes, and then just go back straight back straight back.

Scott Benner 42:42
That's a pretty good superpower, actually. So George, first of all, you're doing great not cursing, it's fantastic. bazel story has picked up to the point where I'm going to ask the hold on one second, I'm going to get up and move him a little bit. And I'll be right back. He's now distracting me. I don't know if it's if it's even something anyone would ever hear on the recording. But I can't think through it. So hold on one second. When we started to record, the dogs were in separate different beds. And I was like Oh, the one who doesn't snore is near me and the one that does stores way away from me. This is fantastic. And then as we started talking, they switch spots.

George 43:17
So are you recording now

Unknown Speaker 43:18
let's just fix Yeah, how

Scott Benner 43:19
can I mess this up? Hold on, I know. So well. Okay, so let's walk through a little bit of the MDI kind of an idea. So do you have to? What kind of insulin are you using?

George 43:32
Okay, so when I was diagnosed, they put me on nother rapid, which I think you guys will know the log, and lantis. Okay, um, so I kind of started and then you kind of fumble through it and tell how much am I taking what doses etc. And so, you know, you know, typically in hospital, they just give you two pens, and they're like, Well, here's two pens, that's probably enough for the next week, go to your GP get a script and go from there. And so I kind of did that. And then quite quickly discovered that the pens only have one unit doses. And so I quite quickly needed to change up and move to half unit doses because I was still quite insulin sensitive at the time. At the moment, I'm now using novolog whenever appid and Liv Amir and I use it in the pencils. So you'd have three ml cartridges and I load them into an echo pen, which then once I've dialed up the dose and shot it into me it'll, it has a little calendar a little. It's like a counter on the back, which tells you the last dose and how many hours ago it was, which is pretty cool. And then I'll put that into my my app, and that tells me insulin on board. So the app has got a setting for essentially whenever you put in a bolus you put in a URL if you say how long your insulin is active for and it'll you know give you it can track the curve and just say you've got this much left on board. So I don't have to worry about keeping that in my brain because I'm terrible like that. And I ended up on levemir because actually have a random blog. I was chatting to somebody about this today but I was just reading a blog somewhere and This guy was saying, Oh, my kid always hypose on Lantus after exercise. And I was like, Yeah, I have that on this movie Deliver me it would help. And so I chatted to my endo about it. And he said, well give it a go. And that was my main reason for switching. switched from Lantus levemir. I tried splitting my dose I was really wasn't getting coverage with Lantus because I think the one of the way, one of the things about lantis is when you have a slightly smaller dose, it just doesn't. It just runs out early. So they sort of, say 24 hours, but I was sort of getting about 2021 hours out of it. And so I just had these two random highs throughout the day, I was like one one in the morning and one at night. I was like, well, it's sort of when the dose is wearing off, until I moved to Livermore because of all of those reasons. And then it was really nice, actually, the hypose disappeared after moving to live a mere exercise fibers. And so now I don't even hardly ever change my bezel dose like after exercise, I just don't need to find as long as I don't really have any any fast acting insulin on board. I don't I don't know how to exercise

Scott Benner 45:57
live, Amir, are you shooting 11 or once a day now or do still, um,

George 46:02
I split it, it works better. If you split, I've actually now moved to a three way split, because I found the dose action is about eight hours somewhere that eight to 10 hours of peak. And so I get up first thing in the morning, and I'll you know, put a shot in about 630. And then I'll do another one around about lunchtime, and then one just before I go to bed. And then I kind of like that for for two reasons. One, it gives me this this, you know, always I've always got an eight hour peak coming on. But the other nice thing is, when my basil does move around, it gives me three intervention points through the day. So if I'm running slightly higher, my basil are running slightly low, then I can say okay, well in the next one, I'll just knock that down by maybe you know, two. But again, because living here also has a peak, it has a distinctive peak and a distinctive sort of degradation action over the course like once you get to sort of 16 hours in it really starts to go down and it's the dose is not so active, you get these three different peaks you can work with. So I will take less overnight, for instance, whereas with something like Lantus, it's, it's a flatter action. And once you stack them on top of each other, there isn't really much benefit to stacking them in different amounts. Because, you know, over the course of a day, they will just add up to a total daily dose. Whereas if let me add that one actually wears off. And so you can put a new one in and you get it you get a different basal rate. And I find that like super useful because you can then really, really tweak. That's cool.

Scott Benner 47:25
I know that when Arden was first diagnosed, we used Lantus, but it burned. Yeah. So we moved. We moved to love Amir, and then so you've tried to imagine, you know, that many years ago, the internet wasn't really as like so I found through googling. This web space where pharma people, the sales, people were talking about their drugs. But it wasn't private. You didn't need a password to get into it. And I found this one spot where these salespeople who were selling Lantus, were talking about how they feel bad telling people that didn't last for 24 hours when they No it doesn't. And that that made me go, oh, okay, that makes sense. You know, like, that makes sense. That's why we're seeing this hire right here, because it's gone. She doesn't have any bazel right here. And that's when I started splitting it just every 12 hours, which ended up working fine for Arden, but I wasn't looking into it at that time, as closely as you are now. And so I imagine if I would have figured out what you figured out, maybe I would have gone to two more injections of it to that makes a lot of sense. But

George 48:36
I find that I find that like works really, really well for me. I mean, the other thing is I looked into the insulin action. And so as you say what you know, Lantus you you get the burn. But the way Lantus works is it sort of it's a it's an acidic substance that then sublimates under your skin in the fat into a little ball of insulin that sits wherever it sits right. And then there's there's two interesting things about that. The first thing I found is that, and I think this is why I have I have no evidence to suggest this. But I think this is the way I had to hypose is that that ball is going to break down at whatever rate it breaks down. If I go into a hot room yoga class, I've just heated up my body that's going to break down slightly faster. And so what I found is that on days, I would do our dream yoga, we'd get this hypo after exercise, and then later in the day, I'd have the tie and I'm just like, why is early what without why did why did this happen?

Scott Benner 49:24
But yeah, but yeah, so you know, it crystallizes under the skin and then it basically just melts away slowly giving you giving you insulin slowly. And I've always thought you can tell it's working faster now. Or it's, you know, it's you can just have

George 49:40
like there are moments but the other thing about that is that it creates this little ball of insulin right? Now if you think about a bowl, the bigger the bowl, the bigger the surface area of the ball, right? And so the bigger the surface area, the more insulin there is to create to like sort of sublimate out and just sort of break down into the into the surrounding tissue. And so I think this is why they have now Gone with their new incidents, they've gone with higher dose insulins to make the ball smaller again, because if you're injecting a big ball of insulin, then you just by definition got much more surface area, like a bigger ball has more surface area. So you get more insulin into you at any one point in time. And then as it shrinks in size,

Scott Benner 50:17
there's less, it gets less. Yeah. And then your tie, yeah, there's

George 50:21
less, but then you also sort of had a peak. And so you know, it's just not even. And I think they've done a lot of a lot of work on this. But I'm still not too keen on a little ball of insulin somewhere in my body.

Scott Benner 50:31
Just We'll see. It's funny. I've broken things down into overly simplistic statements. But in the end, what we just said was, if your blood sugar is high, you probably miss timed or miscalculated the amount of insulin you have not enough insulin. And if your blood sugar is low, you probably have mis timed it or have too little. And it really is it's all about what I there's a thread I was looking at on Facebook before I started talking to you. And it's all about what do I do? How do I get my blood sugar down? Why is my blood sugar high, you don't have enough insulin. But that it's really not more difficult than that that basic concept. Now how you how you get the correct amount of insulin at the right amount of time gets to be a bigger idea. But in the in the very beginning, if your insulin, your blood sugar's high, you don't have enough insulin. That's it. It's that simple.

George 51:20
It's exactly that it works exactly the same way for bagels as well. And I think, you know, as soon as I put two and two together with that, that's when you know, that's when I really started to make progress.

Scott Benner 51:30
All right, juice. Okay, so plant based, I diagnose you probably out of your honeymoon period. Now you were talking about needing a half unit? And yeah,

George 51:39
I mean, I was I there was one point where actually, I was trying a keto diet just because I wanted to see if it worked. And I was actually not having any insulin because I was just typing. But that came to a swift end. And, yeah, last couple of weeks, it's just been, you know, it's been a bit of going down and increment slowly. But surely, in the last couple of weeks, I've been like, what the hell is going on here? I'm injecting like, for a horse.

Scott Benner 52:02
Yeah, it is how it starts to feel, especially when it makes that big shift, where you're like, Oh, I used to use this little bit. But now it's so because it does seem like, it's funny, too. I think, when you're injecting it, when you can really see it, it's a little more impactful. Like when you tell a pump to give you 15 units, it's just a number. But when you look at 15 units in a needle, it's a lot of insulin. You know, like, like, physically, when you look at it, you're like, Wow, that's a lot of volume. But here, so it's a little more impactful. I think when you see it going to be perfectly honest. So plus you feel it because you're injecting quicker, where pumps kind of like the Omni pod, for instance, if you take a big bolus, the only Patil take, it could take a minute or so to put it in it goes in much more slowly, as an example. But that's interesting. It really is. How's healthcare in Australia? What is uh, what's your, like, what falls to you, I'm already fascinated that you were able to take a sabbatical. That's so unAmerican, that's incredible. You wouldn't get a year off here, if you had 16 babies, they came out your ears, they'd be like, get back to work.

George 53:16
I kind of feel that. But now I mean, healthcare is good. So I mean, let me give you an idea of what my typical my typical experiences. So I live in the eliminator city, I picked a GP who has a practice near my work. There, they're everywhere. I particularly look one look for one that who does does what we call bulk billing. So by being an Australian citizen, I get free health care free access to Medicare. We call it Medicare here. It's not it's sort of the the single payer health care system that we have. So I'm not Australian by birth, I moved here about 10 years ago. But yeah, as I once I, once I became a naturalized citizen, they go cool. Here's your Medicare card. And so there's a bunch of reasons many ways you qualify. But ultimately, if you find a GPU does bulk billing, and what they're saying is that the rebates that you'll get from Medicare will cover their expenses. So I found when it does that, that means I don't pay for any of my GP visits. Like, I can go to them as often as I want in my GPS, like, Oh, hey, good to see you again. And then yeah, Medicare will will pay for that. Typically, most labs are on Medicare, so I don't really pay for those, I guess, and, you know, less, I really get out of hand, but you know, I go and get a couple of lab tests per year. And that doesn't seem to doesn't seem to touch sides. I've never noticed the ball. You know, DGP gives me a piece of paper, I'm making a point with a nurse and she takes the blood out of me signs a piece of paper, and then I come back a day later and I've got some results. And so that's I don't don't see a cost to that. For my end, I've registered with a public health hospital here that has a great Diabetes Center. And so I see my endo. I was seeing him once every three months. I now See him? He said, he looked at me right now you're doing fine. I'll see you in six months. But I don't pay for that either. That's again, belt build. So I've got a bug called endo endocrinologist as well. And then that that diabetes clinic has an attached or that that diabetes clinic has an attached set of educators. And so they actually run in a separate group at a Diabetes Center. And they have, they have, you know, some nurses and some dietitians, and psychologists, and essentially, I can go and see those those people for free as well. And it's just basically finding them up and going, Hey, how are you going? I'd like to talk to you about x and they go, Okay, great. I got a space on my calendar here. Let's talk about that. Then. If I go and do some more complicated stuff, so let's say going and seeing a specialist, or maybe going and seeing a psychologist or maybe going and getting some surgery, that's where you start to encounter costs. Emergency healthcare is always free. Like, if I just if I get sick, I just walk into, I walk into a hospital now. And they'll just be like, Oh, hey, you're sick. Okay, cool. Let's sort that out. And you generally won't see a cost about that. But when you get admitted to hospital, then it gets complicated. Like, have you got hospital cover? They're kind of they kind of push you into into having that. Are you in a private hospital? Do you? There's a whole bunch of like rules and regulations and conditions. But you know, for most stuff, like if you're willing to wait, you can get away with no cost. And so it sort of becomes a trade off of like, Do I want this done faster? Or is this sort of a more optional treatment? So stuff like chiropractors and yeah, pretty much just the more, the more not would you call them I guess? Yeah, like not

Scott Benner 56:45
annoyances. Yeah. Well, what about the insulin? Does the insulin cost money?

George 56:52
Yeah, so I pay $35 for a PBS script. So the way it works out here is that I will get a script from my GP. And then all the medications that we have are on a scheme called the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. And if the medication is on there, then it's it's covered in a script. So a standard script costs 35 $37, Ozzy, and there are ways to get that cheaper. So like, if you don't have a job, or you don't have, like, if you earn less than a certain amount, etc, there's like a whole bunch of conditions you can get out, you can get a concession card, and then it cost like eight. And then it just you go to your pharmacy, and they give you whatever the standard doses. And so with my insulin I get whatever it is, I think it's a five ml cartridges. So I get five boxes of five. So I'll get five fives, what's that

Scott Benner 57:41
35 cartridges for about $37 about $1 a cartridge. And if your insulin needs went up and double, they would still be the same mount or with the mount go have also?

George 57:50
No, no, I just that's the standard script. So I'll get a script for that much. And if that last me as long as it lasts me and I got one repeat. And then I go in the lab that repeat, I'll pay the $35 again. And then I'll go to my GP and get another one. That's pretty good. Was the LIBOR free? Or did you? Unfortunately not No, I have to pay for that. Although there's, there's a consultation going on at the moment. So the way the diabetes stuff works is slightly differently. So insulin is obviously medication that's covered on PBS just as basically all the medication that you can get. But for diabetes stuff, they run a separate scheme called the ndss. So when you when you become a diabetic, like you're sitting there in hospital, and you're like what the hell has just happened to me and you get a stream of people coming through it, one of the people that come through is a an educator who comes and registers you with a scheme called the NDS s, and they kind of validate that you actually have diabetes, and that you're this type, and that you get a card and it kind of register you. And then you can take that card to any pharmacy or you can go online to their website, and that gives you access to diabetes supplies. So using that card, I don't pay for needles, but I can just have an endless supply of needles if I want, I get access to subsidize test strips. So instead of paying whatever it is 50 bucks a box, I pay I think 17 if I'm always on a pump, I'd get access to my pump supplies at a reduced cost. And like so basically all of the all of the management tools for diabetes are covered under the ndss. So CGM has been made available to under 20 ones in Australia. So if I was under 21, I could just go and get a CGM, and they would give it to me, and that would be free. But they haven't yet approved funding for anybody over the age of 21. So about six months ago, they kicked off a consultation as to whether or not they're going to find the Libra but they haven't yet made a decision. And so we're hoping, hoping holding thumbs

Scott Benner 59:38
were without the the lever without the without the you know, the alerts. It really is. It's a really great big meter. You know, to me like where you don't have to poke yourself because you even said like I have to wake up and look or you were talking earlier about how like every half an hour you look, I believe that if the if this isn't a sales pitch, but if you were if you were on Dexcom you You had your, your your level set, you would get to a comfortable place where you'd never think to look at it unless it was beeping at you. And so and so that's the difference. I think LIBOR is really cool. I just don't think it's a CGM. Like it's Yeah. Right. I

George 1:00:13
mean, it's what's good going for it is it's got the cost. And I think it's also got, and I don't have to calibrate it.

Scott Benner 1:00:19
So you're managing Well, with type one with with injections, got a Libra plant based diet, which I applaud you on. Did you was that hard to get into a plant based diet? Or were you always a healthier eater to begin with? Or was it a big transition for him?

George 1:00:35
No, actually, I mean, so ironically, this is this is 20 year old me like 21 year old mine, my brain. I don't know what I was thinking. But anyway, I was, I was living in London at the time, and I was looking at what I was eating, I was like, I'm eating a lot of junk food. If I turned vegetarian, I'll eat less junk food. I don't ask me how I thought that I thought at the time. And so I said, Okay, well, I'm going vegetarian. Until I became a vegetarian, and that kind of forced me to cook my kind of my, and brain logic said that if I don't eat meat, I'll be able to eat less take out the side. I don't know, I had, to me that I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:12
just had to believe.

George 1:01:15
Like, anyway, it worked for me. And I ended up learning to cook and, and you know, like, over the years, like, you kind of just eventually lose the flavor for me at some point in time. It's just, I'm just like, Yeah, no, not my thing. But also sort of the same becomes I think the biggest one was like sort of dairy and cheese, because it's so addictive. Like, literally addictive. is a is a castle, morphine is like a morphine analog in cow milk, which keeps the baby cows happy, but also has the side effect of getting you addicted to it. As a human

Scott Benner 1:01:49
cheese is one of those things that you don't think of as being unhealthy, but it's not particularly healthy. It just but it is one of those, it falls into a category in your mind, for some reason, where it's very, it feels natural. So you're like, Okay, cheese,

George 1:02:04
but I remember I was I was in Amsterdam at the time on on a, just like sort of a I want to say working holiday, but I was working for the company I work for. And they have a they have offices in Amsterdam, and I was just kind of out there for three months working and like, like, do you think Americans like cheese, like the Dutch are just like, everything is cheap. Like life is cheese, if you live in Holland. And it's all like just, it's none of us like processed cheese is just like it's these all these really these boutique cheeses that have aged and you just kind of crazy. And I'd been eating all this cheese. And then at the time, that was when my wife was like, we should eat less cheese and go vegan. And so I watched a you know, I think I watched the milk documentary or something like that. And I was just like, okay, that's me. I'm done overnight. And so I just went cold turkey and cheese. And actually went through like morphine withdrawal. Like I remember like, lying in bed shaking, sweating, the most horrible thing I've ever experienced, really. I was like this from cheese.

Scott Benner 1:03:02
You had the Gouda monkey on your back. That's

George 1:03:05
literally withdrawal symptoms. And I was just in bed shaking, like for about four days. And then it just went away. And I was like, Oh, thank god that's over. That's

Scott Benner 1:03:14
crazy. And George, don't be surprised if this episode is called Gouda monkey. butt. I'm, I'm somehow delighted by the idea that you had withdrawal from cheats, but it's just not something that would ever have occurred to me that a person would have said, so that is really that's fast. And you say because there's what's in the milk that

George 1:03:34
they kind of get is a cup. So camo has a thing called castle morphine. It's one of the proteins that's in Carmack. And but it is literally morphine. And so it binds to the same receptors in your in your brain. And that's why when you eat a piece of cheese, you feel warm and fuzzy. You have a glass of milk, like oh, that's really good. I feel warm and fuzzy from that. So you're getting the most Yeah, you're literally getting a morphine head.

Scott Benner 1:04:00
Well, I don't think that's going to take over the opioid crisis in America. But I think at the same time that is really interesting news that I didn't I never seriously That's insane. Wow,

George 1:04:12
I didn't know about this. And I was like, what, what? What? What? Well, even milk doesn't have that.

Scott Benner 1:04:17
I don't think oh, you're making me wonders what else I don't know. Which I'm assuming is a huge amount of things to be heard. That's Um, so

George 1:04:26
when that happened that was when I was like, I became like, yeah, pretty anti dairy but now it's sort of backed off and like everybody's got their own path. Like you want to have dairy. That's cool. You can have too arrogant like but you know, I just don't think it's particularly healthy. And one of the interesting things I noticed when I cut out dairy out of my diet is just my weight started dropping away like excess water attention, and little bits of puppy fat I was holding on over the years but also my hunger satiated and I think that was related to the growth hormones that are in in cow milk. Because I mean, I didn't really think about it this way but you know, as well I was watching this documentary and they're kind of like, what's the purpose of milk? Right? The purpose of milk is goes from a mother car down to baby cow. And it says the baby cow, you

Scott Benner 1:05:07
should get really big, fat. Yeah.

George 1:05:10
Yeah. And so we, you know, we drink this as humans, are we, you know, what happens? Well, we get bigger,

Unknown Speaker 1:05:16
or, you know,

George 1:05:16
so I stopped having it and like all of a sudden, like, I just my weight normalized. And I was like, wow, I'm certainly not just putting on that extra half keto, a year that you just, you know, you just do as you get older, and you just kind of accept it. And it's my weight stabilized, and I kind of got a whole bunch more energy back. And I was like, wow, this is actually pretty good. I'm gonna go with us. Well,

Scott Benner 1:05:38
where did you like we're over an hour, but I wanted to ask you for so you can hear in your voice like, sure you're from where are you from? Originally? Where were you born?

George 1:05:46
I was born in South Africa.

Scott Benner 1:05:48
Okay. And then Have you lived in a number of different places? It feels like Yeah, yeah, I've

George 1:05:53
lived in. I've lived in the UK. I've lived in London. I've lived in Edinburgh. I've lived here in Sydney. I've lived in Amsterdam. I spent three months backpacking Thailand. But also,

Scott Benner 1:06:04
I think that's about it. Do you feel like you'll stay in a city? Where did you meet your wife?

George 1:06:08
I met my wife in Edinburgh. I think, Well, I think we'll stay in Sydney. I really like Sydney. Actually, it's, you know, it's just, if you can imagine a place that is just basically perpetually Sunny, as good health care and good work. And it's easy to get around to just kind of comfy, it's only downside is that it's expensive. One of the most expensive cities in the world. But like I like that feels like everywhere nowadays. So I don't know that I can count that as a downside.

Scott Benner 1:06:34
I don't know. I mean, so far, I haven't been able to find a place that wasn't expensive to live. That was anywhere you'd want to be for any amount of time. You know, you know, sometimes you just get dark, rural places, you know, this is cheaper. And now I live here forever, like, nowhere to go and nothing to do. And I'm too far from everything. That is the one downside, I guess I'll show you when you leave. It's a long flight to almost everywhere you go. Is that right?

George 1:07:00
Yeah, I mean, I sometimes go home to my parents, and you're kind of you fly over the Arctic, like the Antarctic, whatever the one at the bottom is, you fly over it. And it's like this 14 hour flight. And it's during the during the day. So it's not even like if you fly to the States, at least, you know, they have the good sense to put the plane into the air at something like two, three o'clock in the afternoon so that you watch a movie for two or three hours. And then you have a nap and you wake up in America. Great, cool, I'm refreshed. But to fly to South Africa is just the opposite way around, they leave at 11 o'clock in the morning, and they fly essentially through the day. And then they drop you off or whatever it is four o'clock in the afternoon. You're just like, I couldn't even sleep. I was awake. So hold that whole flight for 14 hours. And like, do you have any idea how bad your movies are? Yeah, so it by the same token, you also just get used to sitting on a plane for 14 hours. And so at some point in time, I kind of went, I you know, I'm gonna tall guy so I get emergency x rows whenever I can. And at some point, I was kind of like, wow, this is only an eight hour flight. I don't need an emergency exit.

Scott Benner 1:08:02
Man, that's something that really that sounds listen. We're at my house here talking now about if we should be moving or what should we should be doing and our minds never go to like it was just really fascinating to hear all the places that you've lived. Were you always following work? Or were you following just whimsy, or how did you end up moving around so much?

George 1:08:23
Mostly random, random reasons. Right? Like, when I first left London, and moved to Edinburgh, it was just a friend of mine was like, Hey, you should move to Edinburgh with me. And I was like, Well, okay, yeah, let's do that. And so I just ended up there. And then, you know, over the years, it's mostly been about traveling. like Thailand, oh, and my wife wasn't my wife at the time. But it was my she was my girlfriend at the time. She said, I am going to go and live in you know, I'm gonna go and backpack Thailand for three months. So it's like, oh, okay, that sounds like a good idea. Let's go do that. And then she was kind of the reason we came to Australia as well. We've been living we come back from Thailand. We've been living in London for a few years. And after doing that, we kind of went she went, I really want to live somewhere warm. Let's go live in Australia. I was like, Well, okay, let's go do that. And so she we moved out to Sydney. And then the rest is sort of just places I've always wanted to visit for extended periods of time to sort of soak into the culture, but never really had the opportunity to and then you know, fortunately the company I work for has offices all over the place. And so I've kind of managed to squeeze a you know, 234 weeks or five weeks or even up to three months. Just go and sort of find a job at that office for a couple of weeks and just go and live there and live in the culture and go do stuff. I think the only really big exception to that was when I we bought a car and drove around Europe for three months and that was just insane.

Scott Benner 1:09:45
It's just it's George's incredibly inspirational. I don't know if you realize or not that just the freedom that you feel to do that is I'm jealous of it. To be perfectly honest. Also, you don't have kids. Is that right? Yeah, I don't have you don't make that as you'll just be wherever You are after that happens.

George 1:10:02
Yeah, we are now Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:10:03
yeah. Right. Oh, that's something a church I this time went by so quickly. I really appreciate you coming on. I had such a great time and you have to go to sleep I would imagine also, is it about to have now I know I'm like thoroughly awake now you're all awake.

George 1:10:17
Now I might as well like go for a run or just like go see what's on at two o'clock in the morning. And today? I think actually almost nothing because government is shut down or fun, fun. And is not. There's a time when defined ends. Yeah, they're like a after I think 12 or 12am. Or like 1am. Like, this is when the fun stops. No kidding.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:36
That's interesting. Yeah, you

George 1:10:37
literally get ridiculous things like they won't serve you. I don't drink alcohol. But like if you do drink alcohol, like you're not allowed to leave a bar after 1am because they won't let you back in or, like after midnight. They're not allowed to serve you spirits without a mixer. And so it's the funniest thing. You let people go into bars. And they're like, I'd like an 18 year old scotch please. And they'll be like, sure. Which which makes it Do you want that with maybe like, what?

Scott Benner 1:10:58
I don't, please. So did

George 1:11:02
you have to now put a Coke into your 18 year old scotch after midnight is just ludicrous.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
Like, listen, this sounds like it. I hope I can visit sometimes that's really something. But I have kids, so probably at Georgia,

George 1:11:18
I keep them entertained before you know, it's not

Scott Benner 1:11:20
even that it's that yours. They have things they have their own lives and you are the facilitator of their lives. And there's just no time to be a god. This is an indictment of parenting. But it's hard to be you and them at the same time, which is ends up being what's going on as you're trying to facilitate their situation. And at the same time, work and make money to pay for things and sleep. And you know, like there's just not you run out of time like this. You know what I mean? It's,

George 1:11:49
I completely understand. And I think that's also the kind thing about parenting right? that your life is no longer yours. You're giving so much to somebody else. I think that's something wonderful parents do. In

Scott Benner 1:12:02
the least manly thing I've done in a while. I watched this football game last night while folding laundry. So that's like, there's a there's a clear delineation between my masculinity and my femininity. Last night, I was just folding laundry, trying to look up at the television to see if deals were going to win. Football being American football. But, but church, thank you so much. I really feel like I could talk forever. I think you've lulled me into a into a feeling of happiness, but your multicultural accent which is delightful. So not only do I have to thank George for coming on the show and sharing but I have to thank him for a follow up note he sent me many weeks later. I'm gonna read it to you. Soon as I find it. Did I find it now here it is I got Hey, mate, I wanted to message you quickly. And let you know that it turns out I am actually still honeymooning. To my surprise. I had a C peptide test. So we could go in and showed I still have some pancreas function. I've been using 35 or 40 units a day, which for my build age and exercise level i thought was about right, given what multiple books said I should be expecting. Anyway, I figured that my good control is assisted but not caused by this. But it would still be unethical of me to claim no honeymoon when I know that not to be true. So I just wanted to let you know, so you could decide how to handle it. So while I want to applaud George for his courtesy and his transparency, I don't think it changes much other than to tell you that you may not know exactly when your honeymoon is over. George is still controlling his diabetes exactly the same way as he spoke about in the episode, nothing's changed. He just needs more insulin. Now. I just want to take a moment to point out who brings the podcast to you, I do the interviews, I set everything up, I write I do the whole thing. But without DAX comment on the pod, I would not have the time to do it. So again, thank you very much to both companies for your generous support of the podcast. It really does help me bring all this information, these people's stories, and anything else that you find valuable about the podcast, it really would not exist without the ex comment on the pod supporting me. I also want to thank the listeners for sharing with friends, family, loved ones, doctors, everyone you tell about the podcast, I know you're doing it, I can see it growing and I get your notes. So thank you very, very much. I really appreciate it. You guys know you can listen to the podcast anywhere including Juicebox podcast.com, or on any podcast app. But did you know you can also listen on Amazon Alexa, don't worry. I won't say the thing that makes your Alexa do something. And you can also listen and you can also listen on Siri with home pod at home if you have that speaker. There's so many different ways. I'm going to see you guys next week. Hey Siri, play the Juicebox Podcast.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:49
You here's the Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes,

Unknown Speaker 1:14:53
where in South America there's so

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Scott Benner 5/8/18 Scott Benner 5/8/18

#164 Sean has Type 1 Diabetes and Lupus

Professional snowboarder Sean Busby has multiple autoimmune issues....

Sean lives with both type 1 diabetes and Lupus and he wants to be transparent so that other people living with multiple issues can find each other and support. Join Sean by sharing your multiple diagnosis story online. Use the hashtag #NowYouSeeMe

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - google play/android - iheart radio - or their favorite podcast app.

Check out Riding on Insulin here.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello and welcome to Episode 164 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode now you see me? What does that mean? I'll tell you in just a second. Today's episode of the podcast is brought to you by Omni pod with just two components the small wearable pod and the handheld personal diabetes manager. Beyond the pod insulin management system lets you manage insulin delivery simply and discreetly more convenient than daily insulin injections, and more comfortable than traditional tube pumps. The Omni pod enables you to live life more freely. You'll learn more in this episode, or you can go to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box for free no obligation demo right now. There's also links in the show notes. The podcast is also brought to you today by dexcom, makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor. We've been using g six for about a week and a half now. I have a very comprehensive review episode coming up in about another week. So I'm looking forward to anyway the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor which is a fantastic way to manage the ups and downs of your diabetes. You can learn more dexcom.com Ford slash juice box in the ads later in the podcast. Links in your show notes or Juicebox podcast.com. Now we're going to talk to Sean Busby. Sean is a professional snowboarder, which is actually a thing and his life is it's a bit insane. He's also living with two autoimmune issues and that's why he's on today to talk about lupus and type one diabetes. You can hear bazel snorkelling in the background basically one of the noises No, not now. Fine. onto the show. Here we go.

Unknown Speaker 1:47
Say something

Sean Busby 1:48
that's been testing Hello, hello, perfect.

Scott Benner 1:51
Just gonna say finally someone is used Skype before you called me. Most people just don't even know how it works. So they like what is Skype? Like I know, but it's still the best way to do this stuff. So yeah, I don't know. We sound crystal clear.

Sean Busby 2:05
So it's perfect. Perfect. Awesome.

Scott Benner 2:13
Allow me to remind you right here that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should ever be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making changes to your diabetes plan or really doing anything in general. Don't listen to me. I'm an idiot on a podcast. I mean, didn't your parents teach you to be like scared of strangers?

Sean Busby 2:33
I'm Sean Busby. I'm a professional snowboarder living with Type One Diabetes and lupus.

Scott Benner 2:40
Shawn, I think we've never met in person. But I think we've been in the same place a couple of times, and we just wouldn't know it. I feel like I was at something in Philadelphia once you might have been at or something at Lilly. I don't remember exactly. But I feel like I feel like I've been in a situation where people are like that, Shawn. I'm like, oh, and then I just get whisked in a different direction. And I don't think we've ever actually met in person. So it's very nice to meet you.

Sean Busby 3:03
Yeah, likewise.

Scott Benner 3:06
So we're here today to talk about something that riding on insulins doing called Now You See Me, right, and that's to what what's the hashtag supposed to be doing? Yeah,

Sean Busby 3:16
so the hashtag for this campaign during the month of May is called Now You See Me, so just this completely spelled out. But yeah, that's that. That's the hashtag. You nailed it. And we're trying to draw attention to people who are living with multiple autoimmune issues. Correct. So we know that there was a study that about 27% of people that have type one diabetes, will develop another autoimmune disease at some point in their lifetime. So I was one of those and the reason we chose may for this campaign is because like I said, I have lupus, in addition to my type one diabetes, and that's lupus is pretty rare for men to get about one in 10 people that get lupus are men. There's about a total of 500,000 people, or 500,000 been in the world that have it. And so I felt pretty alone when I got that diagnosis and unlike type one diabetes, at first I felt alone but then I found a great community and in type one, the type one community is pretty large and open and there's people talking about it, but not so much with lupus at least with men and with lupus. So I figured, you know, I bet I'm not the only one that's going through a double diagnosis. And anyway, so we chose may because may is also lupus awareness month so we just figured out this is a great time to start this and let's see who else is dealing with

Scott Benner 4:54
a double diagnosis or possibly more. Around here. We when we donate like clothes and things like household goods that you know, to organizations. We always use the Lupus Foundation because I just one day found myself thinking, How unlucky is it to get a disease that some people will tell you doesn't exist? Like, that's not good luck actually showing you have the worst Good luck in the world you got something hardly anybody ever gets and something hardly anybody ever gets at the same time. You must not let a lot or you probably just like, well, it's never gonna go the right way for But seriously, I mean, you got screwed twice, man.

Sean Busby 5:33
Yeah, I see it's funny because I've always spoken about that it's like, and why don't we play the lottery because the odds are looking like it's in our favor. So

Scott Benner 5:42
you always hit the low odds stuff, right? Like so that's Yeah, well,

Unknown Speaker 5:47
I'll say this,

Scott Benner 5:47
Shawn. So I don't think I've ever come out and said this on the podcast yet. But now seems like just as good a time as any. My daughter Arden is just about 14 years old. She's had type one since she was two. And a number of months ago now a while ago, I've maybe I've alluded to it once or twice, but she started having really intense stomach issues. And she would not use the bathroom for days at a time successfully. And then when she went, it was her body just being like, Oh my god, all this has to come out like really like a bad cycle she was in and we came up on our endocrinologist appointment and I walked in I said, Look, I'm I'm sorry to say this, but you're gonna have to test your thyroid. I'm like, because I think her thyroids, like, kind of gone, you know? Yeah. And And sure enough, now she has to take Synthroid every day, and it completely cleared things up. But it just, you know, that that's, you know, like, you think, well, one thing's enough. But to make your point, there it is. There's the second thing and looking back, it's not that surprising. My my wife has hyperthyroidism, and we go back through my wife's family line. And most of the women on my wife's side of the family have some endocrine issue. They're all different, but some one person has celiac. What my wife's grandmother had the celiac, we have a niece who just has like not a great immune system like there's, everyone seems to be a little touched by it. And Arden got to it looks like so. And it's stinks but finding out right away and doing something about it took her from being miserable to being right back. I can't tell you that Synthroid was in her for two, three days, and everything was back to normal again.

Sean Busby 7:36
Wow. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's nice to know what that enemy is. You know what, that to have a face at least?

Scott Benner 7:43
Tell me a little bit about lupus because I've I'm kind of fascinated by it, but don't really know anything about it. How does it present?

Sean Busby 7:49
Yeah, so it's a super complicated disease, they refer to it as the cruel mystery just because it mimics so many diseases, it mimics multiple sclerosis. It can affect your muscles and mimic forms of like, muscular dystrophy or myositis. And for me, I they suspected it actually when I was 19 years old, and then I was sent out or I guess when I was about 20 years old, and I was sent out to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota for two weeks. However, during that time and just me asking, Are you still getting good connection with me because I just got something on my phone it says poor connection. You

Scott Benner 8:40
sound great to me. So I'm good.

Sean Busby 8:42
Okay, yeah, awesome. Good. Um, so anyways, yeah, I was able to Mayo Clinic at the time I had severe hives over about 70% of my body. So I was treated with I was being treated with some steroids called prednisone. Which if anyone knows prednisone is super gnarly if you have type one diabetes, it's it's crazy. They try to keep control of your blood sugar's during that time frame. And in addition, that present zone is also one of the major drugs as used to treat lupus and suppress the immune system. So anyways, I get out there and when you're on prednisone can so it can basically mask the symptoms of lupus and the bloodwork okay. And that's essentially kind of what happened is what the doctors thought and but I was, I was put through a barrage of tests over two weeks. I was tested for Addison's disease. I was tested for Ms. All sorts of different complicated autoimmune diseases. And the doctors have Mayo Clinic in Minnesota just said you know, you most likely have a connective tissue disease based on your your lab results and everything we've been seeing. However, it's just not showing its face. It will probably show itself in 10 years with lupus It takes the average person with lupus about six years to get a diagnosis. Anyways, I had just returned from a snowboarding expedition in the Arctic Circle. And when I got back, I had these extreme headaches. And I've never had headaches before. And these headaches made me feel like I was going to have like a seizure, they were just so painful. And then on top of that, I had developed a rash across my face, across my chest, and back. And then I had also developed some sores in my mouth. And I was also really sore. But like, I couldn't tell if I was sore because I'm so active or, and just thinking that was normal, or if it was something else, I speed it up a little and I was sent to I went to my doctor's and the she ran some lab work in the lab work came back my it showed that my muscle enzymes were extremely high and out of range. And she was suspect my doctors expect that suspecting a myositis, or like sort of a kind of a dystrophy style disease of the muscles. And so then I was sent to a neurologist and the neurologist conducted tests. And that neurologist ran some various antibody tests and a bunch of my answer, I had a bunch of antibodies, like an anti nuclear antibody, which is kind of like a screening factor for lupus. And, or, yeah, and so the anti nuclear antibody, you know, that came back super high and positive, but that's been high and positive since I was 19 years old. And when I got diagnosed with Type One Diabetes, now, what I've been told is that an AMA just shows that there's or an anti nuclear antibody just shows that there's an autoimmune response going on, and I have type one diabetes, so it's probably positive because of that. Well, anyways, in addition to that, another test came back positive, which is kind of like the gold standard, like, thankfully, it was positive. So we could, we could catch it, but it's called a an anti double stranded DNA. And what that means is that you produce antibodies against your double stranded DNA so essentially, your body is just making antibodies against its its own cells and blood. And that is a hallmark basically timing of a hallmark diagnosis of lupus. So systemic lupus. So SLE. And I,

Scott Benner 12:42
can I jump in for a second? I just have to ask your question. So you say a lot of things that people don't say like I was at the Arctic Circle snowboarding. And that's, that's not as I've never heard anybody use that sentence before in my entire life. And everything that's happening to you, like, there's something about you're like, what, let me just go back for a second. How old were you when you're diagnosed with type one? I was diagnosed at 19. Okay, so 19. And then all this just starts at once for you. How? How did you live at home at that point where you just ate out in the, like, you live a life that I think most of us don't understand, like, you know, you just asked me if you could still hear. I'm assuming that's because you're like on the end of a flagpole on the top of a mountain trying to get reception or something like that right now.

Sean Busby 13:31
It might not be. And do let me know if you can't hear. For some reason. My phone keeps telling me poor connection. But I'm actually in Alaska right now. And But yeah,

Scott Benner 13:45
I see. That's my point. So So were you that guy when you were 19? Were you in Alaska when you were 19? Kind of were you at home like going maybe I'll go to college, maybe I'll snowboard in the Arctic Circle. Where were you in your life

Unknown Speaker 13:58
at that point?

Sean Busby 13:59
When I was 19, snowboarding was my life. And I was living in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, and my parents live in Southern California. And but I was I was full time training. I was competing and just traveling the world for snowboarding competitions. And so yeah, being diagnosed at 19 my life just kind of totally turned upside down. And I was very confused and very scared about what that meant. How

Scott Benner 14:27
did you prioritize things? Did you see the diabetes is okay? This is first or was the pain first or was there like what did you What did you see as your your biggest foe in the morning?

Sean Busby 14:42
With with lupus,

Scott Benner 14:44
no, but just in general, if you're the type one you've just gotten it you probably don't know a ton about it at that way. You're trying to be incredibly active. Now. Somebody's telling you, you have a different disease on top of that. When you wake up in the morning, like what's the first thing you think about?

Sean Busby 15:00
The first thing I actually think about when I wake up is, is anything hurted. Okay. And so I would say it's primarily focused on lupus. lupus is very, like, if I overdid something from the day before it can cause a flare into disease to become active or come out of remission. I'm also with that I'm highly allergic to sunlight. So that can cause it. So it's, that's the one thing is I'm still learning. It's not like I can go and, you know, test my, my blood and be like, Okay, my lupus is extremely active, and I need to do this. So I just, I usually that's kind of the first thing. However, you know, if I'm wearing my CGM, then I may get to jumpstart with with type one diabetes in the morning, depending on if I'm getting any sort of alarm. So that's kind of nice, too.

Scott Benner 15:53
I just, I mean, man, it's you have an incredible attitude. First of all, I would the first thing I would do if I felt pain was stop snowboarding. And so if you must, must really love it. First of all, actually, in my opinion, anyone who would go out in the cold and do anything, really loves what they're doing, because I don't even I can't wrap my head around being in the cold even so you're like a complete anomaly to me, which is

Unknown Speaker 16:18
fantastic.

Scott Benner 16:22
Boom, here comes the ad. What do I do first, next calm or on the pot? or flip a coin? Hold on, heads or tails heads is on? its head, not a face. It was head on the pod. Okay. Whoever said this podcast wasn't well thought out. Listen to me, right now, I'm gonna say some things that make a lot of sense to you. And to me, and just sense in general, common sense. Would you rather be tied to something or not tied to something, I heard your vote, he said not tied to something. The only pod does not have tubing to understand what that means. It means that you're wearing your insulin pump, you're getting your insulin, but you're not attached to another device that has to hang on your belt, be stuffed in your bra jam down your pants, I don't know what you do with it even be bounced on your head and put a cap on overtop of it. I don't know what to do with it. Because I've never had that problem because my daughter has never had that issue we've always used on the pod, the tubeless insulin pump of the gods, I can make that claim because no one can prove otherwise. Zeus uses an omni pod Zeus leader, the gods has type one diabetes uses Omni pod. I said it. That's 100% true. Prove me wrong. I'm just kidding. Go to my omnipod.com Ford slash juice box. When you do that, you can start a free, no obligation demo pod. They'll send it to you. And you can actually wear it and see what you think you can see that what I'm talking about is 100%. True. And then you just move forward very simply in the process. And on the pod helps you along the way. I actually had an on the pod customer service experience yesterday that I'm going to tell you about. I'm going to extend the music to tell you about it.

So we just had a job change here and we switched health insurance. And very Luckily, I felt like we upgraded our health insurance a little bit. And maybe we wouldn't have to use a third party anymore to buy our our Durable Medical goods, which turns out we don't have to. But all I did was call on the partners like hey, we just switched insurance. I used to use this third party supplier. I was wondering, can I use you now? Can I just buy them directly from you? And they said, Give me your information. That took a couple seconds. Then they said we'll call you back in a couple days. And you know what they did? They actually called me back. Crazy, right? guy calls up and he says hey, I'm calling from Omni pod to check through your insurance. Everything's great. Here's what your coverages we would like to place your first order, just like that. I mean, it was so simple. And I'm telling you that if that was that simple, just the process of getting the no obligation, nonfunctioning demo pod to try and check out. It's got to be the easiest thing in the world. I know so many you have done it. And you get back to me later. You're like, Hey, I tried out the demo pod. Now I'm using the honeypot. And by the way, I appreciate that appreciate it. When you click on the link, click click click on the link in the show notes or Juicebox podcast.com and you can try the demo bot. Thank you very much. I'm just saying I think it's gonna be really easy if my experience is any indication. There's really no muss no fuss give it a try. By omnipod.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast links in your show notes at Juicebox podcast.com. I really believe that you will love using the Omni pod hands on management system.

You open your eyes I'm not in pain. Good day. Check my blood sugar get moving, but then bye I hope I hope you take this the right way. But when somebody tells me they're a professional snowboarder, I can't wrap my brain around what that means or how you have food. So like, what is like how do you what is it they like? What is it they like for you being a professional snowboarder?

Sean Busby 20:14
So yeah, that it's basically consists of, well, and I also now am the Executive Director of Randy on insulin, which is a nonprofit that I started right when I was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes when I was 19. But as a as a snowboarder that I, I've been a professional swimmer, since about the age of like, 16. It's basically communicating with my sponsors that they need to do what to do what I do, I'm figuring out trips, you know, pitching different sorts of trips, or expeditions that I may do to remote mountain ranges, and then also trying to get kind of marketing materials around that. So you're shooting photos, you're shooting video, you're writing articles for snowboard publications and magazines, we're testing here that will be coming out from for the following season or two seasons from now. So a bunch of the year that we usually have is from is Moby out in the, in the next season or the season after, and just kind of always providing feedback.

Scott Benner 21:24
So not much different than when I hear about somebody making like money playing video games, you're you're the the out front face for the activity and for the people who make gear or like that kind of stuff around that activity.

Sean Busby 21:39
Yeah, that's it. I guess that's a good way to put it. That's

Scott Benner 21:42
okay. Well, wow, I wish someone would have told me about that. When I was in high school, I would have not done what I did to be perfectly honest, because your life sounds much cooler. And so also, you are I'm assuming by now people listening are gonna have the same thought as I just did. But you're a go getter. Like that's, is that just kind of burned into who you are. I mean, you're like, I have diabetes. I'll start organization. I'll like that's that not many piano lines work that way, I guess.

Sean Busby 22:08
Yeah, I think a lot of things shaped me. Well, actually, a lot of things did shape me I wasn't. I mean, when I was just a snowboarder, and I didn't have type one diabetes, my focus was just solely it was it was selfish, it was just focused on my sport. And, and I think, you know, with being in being a sort of athlete, you're, you're typically just you want to go go go, you always are setting goals, and you're trying to achieve those goals. When I was diagnosed, I was actually misdiagnosed, I was mis diagnosed with Type two and I became extremely ill and extremely sick for three months, until I got the correct diagnosis of type one. And like when I was in the hospital for 12 days, I lost over 30 pounds of my body weight, I started losing snowboarding sponsors because they didn't want to support an athlete that was chronically sick. So like, while my teammates were going and competing in South America, I was essentially just like in a hospital, or, you know, back home with my parents being taken care of because I couldn't function because I wasn't on insulin. And but once I got that correct diagnosis of type one and got on the insulin and felt how amazing that feeling of having my first insulin shot was, and then it really grounded me and it's and then I had to learn about this disease. And all I found was, again, that community I was reading stories from on the jdrf website during children's congress of you know, five year olds, nine year olds 16 year olds like how they've lived life of type one diabetes and have no no different and how they still go out follow their their goals and their dreams and are being like a normal and are being a normal kid. And that's what inspired me and it showed me if they could do it then surely So could I and so they were they were my driving motivation and I know for a fact that if I got diagnosed with lupus and because of the lack of community and now maybe other people would argue there's you know, there's communities online and all that sort of stuff, but in terms of bed and like a positive community because a lot of stuff you read about online are you know, the really sad but really sad stories, right? Right. Um, and like a great example is Selena Gomez she has lupus she just got a kidney transplant because of it. And so like it's like that sort of those sort of stories that you read. And it it just showed me and that these kids can do it. I can and if I was diagnosed with lupus first I would be a complete wreck. I don't I know for a fact I wouldn't be snowboarding on because I

Scott Benner 24:45
think you would have reached out into the world and found sad stories and those sad stories would have led you towards believing this was your path but instead you reached out found type one people who are have a different message in the community. Is that the idea?

Sean Busby 24:59
Yeah. That's it, that's exactly as and there's just the community is so strong around type one. And I just hope that's the same for many other diseases because like I said, many people living with type one, like your daughter are going to develop another autoimmune disease. But I do really feel like type one set me up with the right tools of managing a chronic illness and the, with the amount of people I can reach out to and get support in that manner. So when I was diagnosed with another chronic illness, I had those I have a blueprint of how to manage such a thing.

Scott Benner 25:36
Yeah, there's sort of this moment, like, out of a bad like sci fi action movie where you're being attacked by flying gorillas. And then, you know, then dragons come up out of the woods, you're just like, Ah, this too, you know, like, like, you know, like, there's that feeling of like, okay, I'll I guess I'll defeat all of this as it comes at me. And I really do think that it goes unsaid sometimes, and it's hard to properly I think, articulate at times for some people, but you definitely don't want diabetes, you don't want everything that comes with it. And but there's this positive part about having it that you can't deny like this. I don't know, like you don't meet people who have type one who aren't, you know, resilient, and resourceful, and, you know, intelligent and thoughtful about their life and their health. And it's, it does something to you having this disease, and most of it sucks, but some of its incredibly positive. You know, I don't know if I've ever said this here once, but my daughter plays softball, but she's a third baseman. And they get involved in this game a couple of years ago, where they run out of pitching and she's like, well, I can throw a ball in your hand, I'll do it. And so she gets in pitches to this girl who's like nine times her size, like we could have hidden Arden inside of the batter if we needed to. And she lines the ball right back to Arden Arden can't quite get her glove on it hits her below the kneecap, knocks her right over. And you know, the coach goes running out on the field. And I was like, Oh, let me go out there. So he doesn't overreact to this. And that's my mind feeling from diabetes. I was like, Oh, she just got hit really hard in the knee. She'll be fine. And you know, like, and I rolled out there and I was like, how How's it going? And she's like, got these tears in the corner of her eye that she's just kind of holding back, you know? And she's like, Oh, it hurts. And I was like, right. And the guy, the coach who just raising a normal girl in the world, he's like, you know, let's get ice on it. Let's do this. And I was like, hold on, chill out. I'm like Arden, what do you want to do? She goes, let me stand up and see if I can throw another pitch. And so she does, right, she finishes the inning. Then she bumps for a single at the bottom of the inning comes back pitches the top of the next inning before she looks over at me and kind of gives me the high sign like, Hey, you know what, let me get out of this, my knees really starting to hurt. And a couple days later, she's at the doctor and she's got this little hairline, like fracture in her knee. And it heals fine, and she's fine. But at that point in her life, 12 years old, you know, a girl weighs 85 pounds at the time, you know, and she never thought like, let me stop. But she just did. She was like, Oh, this sucks. But I'll just keep going. And I genuinely believe that part of that is her personality. But part of that comes from from diabetes, I really do think it does. You know, it's amazing. But if you look deep enough, you can find something good at it. Now, I don't know if you can do the same with lupus or not. I mean, your description of it is I'm gonna be honest, fairly terrible. And it's scary to hear from the outside, like, I don't know, you and you're in Alaska, but if you were closer, I feel like I would hug you if we were nearby. But like, God, I'm so sorry. But do you feel like that day to day? Or do you handle it differently?

Sean Busby 28:53
Uh, yeah, I mean, I every every day is different. And every day, I'm still learning about different things and different therapies. And I, you know, I have a great set of doctors now. So I will fly back from Montana where I have my rheumatologists to also Baltimore, Maryland, where they have the Johns Hopkins lupus center. Okay, um, so I just go, you know, just try to see a center of excellence and just try to stay on top of it. And a lot of it, you know, I think with any chronic disease now, this is just an assumption, but a lot of it comes down to just your Outlook, if you can create a positive outlook around it, and like what creates positive outlook around, he has been involved in the community. So type one, and then also doing what I love, which is snowboarding and that just mentally that's just refreshing. It keeps me going and like, yeah, things can always be scary, regardless of the disease down the future in the future when you've had it for a few years. Like type type one can be scary. loops can be scary. But the important thing is to, for me and for anyone is just just to live right now in the present and you're gonna have bad days, but the bad days that you have like, by having that community and being able to talk to someone that has a chronic illness, it's gonna get you through that and that's going to be like with Type One Diabetes. That's the next best medicine the insulin and it's, it's, it's the only way I feel to be successful with living with chronic disease is to have a sense of community. Yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 30:35
sorry, I'm sending Arden heard lunchtime balls for do we just caught me at the very end of it. But anyway, we're doing a nine unit extended ball is 30% now and the rest over an hour in case anybody's interested her blood sugar's 130. And so it Listen, I can't I can't agree with you enough, honestly. You know, because there's, there's, there's two thoughts here. One is, you need to live your best life today. Like this is the life you have today, you need to make the most of it, if we're going to get hit by a car tomorrow, or my lupus is going to get worse or my type one's going to make my eyeballs fall out or whatever it ends up being, you know, like that. We don't know what the future holds. But we do know the future is out there somewhere. And it's coming eventually. And so be I mean, you're an amazing example of just do although I think you're doing all this just tried to meet Selena Gomez, but I'm just that's my personal idea. Have you met her?

Sean Busby 31:28
I know, but it is. I I do you hope to meet her one day? Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:32
I feel like you're the one that can work this out. But But you're married, right? Yeah, you've wasted that whole opportunity, but never

Unknown Speaker 31:39
nevertheless.

Scott Benner 31:42
Um, but but I mean, seriously, like, you're an amazing example. This for type one, you know, put the lupus aside for a second. Seriously put the loop aside for a second. You're in Alaska snowboarding with type one. What do you use? And you have a Dexcom?

Sean Busby 31:56
Yeah, I have an omni pod. And Dexcom?

Scott Benner 32:00
Yeah, you've got the gear of the best stuff. In my opinion. That's what we use to. And so. And so you're out there with this. I mean, this these little, this little bit of technology flying down the side of a mountain on what appears to me to be a very tiny, like surfboard. And so you're, it doesn't seem I mean, do you ever? Do you ever even stop and look at it like that? I guess you don't, right. Like you just have a different attitude. And I think that's important for people to hear. Because I know how much I've seen the community be kind of bolstered just by the idea that my 13 year old can play four or five softball games in a day and not have, you know, it's um, I think it's amazing for people to be able to see the things that they're most scared of, are not just possible, but they're possible in a really big way. Like, we're not all going to go snowboarding in Alaska. But you know, I mean, if you can snowboard in Alaska, my kid can definitely play, you know, soccer, you know, even like if Chris Freeman can ski across Maine, which apparently he has, you know what I mean? Like them, they might, they might kick and play basketball, rec basketball on Saturday, or I can go to the gym as an adult and not feel worried. But there is a way to manage these things. And and still do the things you want to do. How did you learn that management style? Like how did you figure out how to do what you do without it causing you a real problem with your blood sugar? Or does it?

Sean Busby 33:24
Well, I think that that attitude that you both have right there, that was that was number one, I have that to change my attitude to be like, Okay, this is these are the cards I've been dealt, this is what I needed. This is I, if I still want to be a pro athlete, or an athlete or whatever that was I, I just have to learn. And so I did as much research as I could. I reached out to, to as many people that had type one diabetes, that I came across online and tried to gather information. And then I just started going to the gym. And I was so underweight because I had been misdiagnosed for so long that I would go to like the local YMCA, like super early in the morning, right when they opened up because there'd be less people and I was just kind of a shame that I looked like a skeleton. And I would just do all sorts of different exercises that I normally never would do. I'm not a swimmer, but I would get in the pool. And I would start swimming laps. So I could just learn how my body reacted to that sort of stress or that sort of exercise and I record it in a logbook. And I did this for I did this for a few years, even going into snowboarding competitions, recording every like days before a snowboard competition recording everything that was going off my blood sugar's every two hours through the night. If I was making any corrections what those corrections were if I was giving myself any insulin, what that insulin was, and then resetting my insulin pump to basically mimic how my body had been acting the days before. So I was very hands on with it. And I would say, that's the other big thing of advice I would give is to just be extremely hands on with diabetes Test, test, test and learn our Check, check, check, and learn how to how your body reacts in certain exercises, or different climates, such different environments.

Scott Benner 35:24
So that's amazing. Because I say here on the podcast, I tell people, I'm like, Look, nothing's a mistake, but you need experiences, you know? And then you need to have the the kind of the equation like I did this, and this happened. Next time, I'd like to see this happen. So I'll do this like the you have to, you know, I always talk about like being in a fight, like, if you're in a fistfight, you want to hit first, because then everything that happens afterwards, you dictate, right. So if you make a decision with insulin, then you know, I did this, and this is what happened. But if you wait for diabetes to come at you, then you're forever covering your face and hoping not to get punched in the nose. And and then nothing that happens to you is valuable, because you can't act on it later. Because you don't know how, where it were derived from. And you did that with exercise and how it affected your body, which is brilliant. By the way, how long have you How old are you now? I can't believe I didn't ask you that.

Sean Busby 36:14
I'm 33. Okay, so

Scott Benner 36:16
you've been at this for a bit now. So yeah, 13 ish, 14 years with diabetes and lupus pretty much. But that's And so anyway, so sometimes people know, I'll say like, if you're having a real problem, figuring out like, Pre-Bolus thing is an example, sort of cheat and make the same lunch a couple days in a row. So at least you take out some of the factors and you can see what's going on. You did that like with exercise. And and that's how you taught yourself what your how your body would react to certain situations. So smart. Cheese, Shawn, I didn't know you're gonna do this. This is a great interview. I was like, Shawn, I was like, this is gonna go like 20 minutes, don't worry about I said, well yell about the hashtag a little bit. And I'll say, now you see me, you know, hashtag. And then I'll get you out of here. And now I'm like, Sean's great. We should have taken more time. Here's what I imagined I could be completely wrong. There are magic elves that work at Dexcom. That's what I think. I don't know how scientific it is or possible. But Arden just started using the brand new Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor about 12 days ago. I'll have a comprehensive review for you coming up next week. But for now, the upgrade in the insertion process alone. You heard Kevin Sarah talking about it back when he was on the show a few weeks ago. But I've now seen it in person. And oh my god, is it easy. And if you believe my daughter, which I do, because she's 13, and doesn't usually lie about things like this, not just painless, she didn't feel it. She didn't notice anything happened. We used it, I was crazy. We stuck on the thingy. And then we push the button. And then she turned back to me with this big look on her face and said, I didn't feel anything. Ain't gonna get better that feeling nothing is pretty much the epitome of what I want to feel when I'm inserting something into my body. I mean, you get what I'm saying. But if I'm getting poked with, let me try to clean this up. If you're going to put a wall, there's no good way this is if you're going to insert a continuous glucose monitor into me, I'd like to not feel it. And apparently, you're not going to, I really want you to go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box or click on the links in the show notes or Juicebox podcast.com to contact Dexcom. And to begin your journey with continuous glucose monitoring. And if you're already a customer, and you want to upgrade to G six, it's very simple to do. Please contact them today to find out more. I'm talking about not just pain free. literally no feeling. Nothing happens. It's like nothingness. On top of that the accuracy is crazy. Good. We're having a great experience with it. I will tell you all more about it very soon. I just want to have some more time with it before I come to conclusions and share them all with you. Pretty responsible of me, don't you think? What are we hoping for people to do with the hashtag ma just put pictures out or to tell their story a little bit about multiple diagnosis or what's your hope?

Sean Busby 39:22
Yeah, so again, we're we're trying to develop that immunity because we know that there are plenty of people out there that are doing it better managing type one in another disease and sometimes you know, for me too, I find where like you said, Have you wake up what do you think about I find a hard time to prioritize Type One Diabetes on Sundays and tight and I and sometimes you can be like oh, well, you know, lupus or type one or whatever it may be is so much worse than then this or that. But that's not fair to do to yourself. If you have any medical conditions there. They're always serious. Yeah. And you need to figure out how to prioritize them equally, and to be able to take care of yourself. And so for this, this month of May, we're doing this. Yeah, the hashtag. Now you see me, it's to basically allow people to come out and speak out about what it's like managing two diseases, share that with others, because most likely, there's people on the other end that are listening that are going to something similar, or maybe even the exact same thing. And so we're asking people to, you know, share their experience. Riding on insulin is putting up a ton of content, along with many of our partners around the world, that are also putting up content, share that content, just get it out there. And if people want to be more involved, they can they can donate to ratting on insulin, which is riding on insulin dot o RG, and just help he just help spread that message of awareness. And let's bring the light light. You know?

Scott Benner 41:04
Well, Shawn, I was gonna say it's incredibly important because you You said something that we all believe about, you know how strong community is and how much it helps you when you're found that and if you have a multiple diagnosis, the community for that is obviously going to be smaller. But it's, it's probably more important because you're dealing with these two things. And, and it is, I think this is a great idea, because you're really encouraging people to get out into the world and be, you know, a little more open about the things that they're dealing with, because they have probably plans and tricks and tips that they could share with each other to or just good stories that would help buoy somebody who's just been diagnosed, you know, the way it worked for you, I always feel badly about it, I don't, I think it's not a very, like, well kept secret. But type, the type to community is not very strong or active. And there are I've had multiple conversations with dozens of different companies, and they all would like to see it, you know, hey, wouldn't it be nice if there was more of a community, but you can't get people with type two in a big block to speak up. And the best, the best, you know, people can guess is that they're embarrassed by it. And so they don't want to talk about it because of the stigma that's pretty unfairly attached to it, you know, and, and this is this, I hope somebody does that for them just the same as I hope that people step up use this hashtag and, and do the same for people living with with multiple auto means, because I think it's just really important to find people who understand and maybe you can find a connection there that will help you so I this is

Unknown Speaker 42:39
Callie as Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:41
no, I appreciate this. I really do. I Wow, john, you doing a nice thing here from Alaska? What? So I before I'm gonna let you go in a minute, but tell me just real quick, what the hell you're doing on Alaska. Now, you know, you're gonna ride a snowboard or no, how do you not die riding a snowboard?

Sean Busby 42:59
Practice,

Scott Benner 43:00
practice? Where do you practice something like that? I've never here I'm going to tell you something. I'll tell you two things. It'll knock your socks off. I've never had a cup of coffee in my entire life. And I've never been on skis. There's two things I don't think and by the way, I've never seen Animal House. There's three things that most people don't believe. Right? And so when I think of skiing, I think of skiing like being eaten by a shark if I'm not in the Ocean Shark can eat me. So if I'm not on skis, I can't run headlong into a tree going what I'm assuming is like 1000 miles an hour. So you said practice how do you practice the snowboard? Where did you do that first?

Sean Busby 43:34
I did that first in Southern California so

Scott Benner 43:39
that makes sense.

Unknown Speaker 43:40
Yeah.

Sean Busby 43:43
went to elementary school in Laguna Beach and ended up in the mountains So yeah, I learned in Southern California. And it was a no to extend this any further but my my brother passed away when I was in high school and snowboarding became a coping mechanism for me it was just a place where I found a closeness to him was being up in the mountains because I grew up in Southern California and you know we had concrete backyards and all that so I need to that open space to reflect and feel close to my brother and God and and all that so that's where that's what really drove my snowboarding and yeah, it just kind of all funneled Alex and scroll from there. Um, I grew up in a soccer family. My father coached college soccer. Um, and

Scott Benner 44:41
that sounds terrible. I just kind of grew up in baseball family world. Yeah, we're a baseball fan. When you say soccer. I feel like you were like die fish should have stepped in and helped you But no, no, no offense to people who like soccer even though it's like a sport that doesn't seem to have any point but anyway. Shawn, we're gonna name this episode Shawn Busbee his life is a disaster and yet he still really upbeat. Dude, I'm so sorry. And I know it's probably been a long time. But you were like, my brother passed away. And I was like this poor guy. Like, have you ever been hit by a car? Has a kangaroo ever stolen your baby? What else has happened to you? Like, like, could you go on forever about like, or is that it?

Sean Busby 45:27
I've had crazy stories. But yeah, it definitely it definitely shaped who I became like, it was all proper, sadly, that I had to go through in my life and in order to be able to face our challenges in the future, as well. And but, yeah, I just got into snowboarding. And then after type one diabetes, I got into the back country side of snowboarding. And my goal is this backcountry snowboard all seven continents. And so just kind of the, I don't know, I think anyone that's an athlete, they're going to want to present, they're going to want to put more extreme challenges in front of them. And this is just something that kind of gives me a mission in my life. I guess

Scott Benner 46:15
I couldn't First of all, I couldn't agree with you more about going through tough things. And and, and, and that building for other stuff. I mean, that's, I think that's a no brainer. I think the most amazing thing you've said here today is that somewhere in South America, there's snow that just might have gone by for most people. But what I've learned in the last 40 minutes, is there snow in South America somewhere. And I never considered that once in my life. I'm assuming it's on the top of a mountain,

Unknown Speaker 46:43
but not so

Scott Benner 46:44
known Africa. See, you know, a lot of people in Africa listened to this podcast. I am literally bowled over by that every time I see people downloading in South Africa all over the continent. It's very strange. But hey, what's up Africa? I'm gonna let you go shopping, because I'm afraid you're gonna tell me that the end of the world is coming and you know about it somehow. Hey, guys, I have some bad news. March 33rd. But seriously, I I didn't I you have a great sense of humor, which is why I'm feel comfortable joking with you, even though we don't know each other. But But seriously, if if the things you just said over this last however long this has been. Don't fill people with hope, then they're not listening correctly. Because you are an amazing example of perseverance in the face of things that a lot of people I think would, would maybe run and hide from and do that's just incredibly commendable. And then on top of it, you're out in the world, sharing it with other people. So that's a that's huge. So yeah, that's really amazing. And I appreciate you coming on and talking about it with me.

Sean Busby 47:55
Now, well, thank you for your time and kind words. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 47:59
Um, can you I'm gonna stop the recording. Could you hold on one second? Yeah. I stopped the recording to ask Shawn for his address. So I could send him a bold with insulin t shirt because I gotta tell you what, that guy is bold. And so I did it. I did send it to the top of a mountain. care of a polar bear in that amazing. None of that is true. But yet I feel like it will be I feel like when it gets to the post office, wherever Sean is, there'll be a mailman. But he'll be a polar bear. It'll be a polar bear dresses a mailman. And they'll be like, Oh, no. And then they'll just like, have like some like, it'll be him in a moose. They'll be talking and then they'll just like eat a penguin. I don't know why I think any of that. I also don't know why people live out in the cold. None of that makes sense to me. You know, it does make sense to me thinking on the pot and Dexcom for being sponsors the Juicebox Podcast, it makes sense to me to say to you again, please click on the links in your show notes or at Juicebox podcast.com. Or if you have to type into a browser I guess you could my on the pod.com forward slash to Xbox or dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Thank you so much for listening for leaving reviews on iTunes for leaving reviews on Amazon for the new Amazon Alexa skill. You guys rock. Seriously. Your good peeps. I appreciate that. So this moose walks into a post office. He's got a penguin under his arm and he says that the polar bear behind the gunner. Hey, you want to eat this penguin? The polar bear looks at the moose and he says nothing could stop me from eating this penguin. Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night. I'm a polar bear post office worker.

I'm hungry. And I am hungry. And I do want to eat that penguin. Mr. Moose. Thank you so much for bringing him in to me and we're gonna make penguin soup out of him. And then I will share the soup with you Mr. Moose, the moose. Oh, you're so Hi. Thank you for sharing the penguin soup with me. Post master Grizzly, I meant polar bear. Thank you so much. Why are you still listening to this? Why have you not prioritized your day and said this guy is babbling into this microphone? about some penguin and a moose and I'm still listening. This is a reflection on you not on me.

Unknown Speaker 50:24
Seriously.

Scott Benner 50:31
Oh my god. Have you not stopped it yet? Push stop. Go to the next podcast. I haven't had anything to say for over two minutes. Why are you still here? Nothing's gonna happen. I'm not it's not a Marvel movie. There's not going to be a cutscene at the end. This is it. It's over. I'm giving you permission to stop right now.

Unknown Speaker 50:52
Did you stop it?

Scott Benner 50:55
Are you still here?

Did you just hear some bizarre story like that was crazy. He's a snoring machine.

Unknown Speaker 51:05
Why are you still listening?

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