#1123 After Dark: Clean and Sober

Kat is nurse who is now clean and sober. She grew up in an alcoholic household and began using cocaine at the age of 12, Her daughter has type 1 diabetes. WARNING: sudden mention of sexual assualt and other sensitive topics. 

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1123 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Cat grew up in an alcoholic household, she began doing cocaine at the age of 12. And that led to using meth. Her 15 year old daughter has type one diabetes and a few other issues. And it looks here like oh rd and called in a couple of times Hoback at the beginning of using the Dexcom G seven art and had a concern that she didn't know how to fix while she was away at school. It looks like we took care of it on the podcast. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink a G one.com/juice box. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth cozy earth.com use the offer code juicebox at checkout to save 40% off of the clothing, towels sheets off of everything they have at cozy earth.com us med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years. You can as well. Us med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med My

Kat 2:13
name is Kat I am a single mother of a type one diabetic who is 1515

Scott Benner 2:23
Oh cat my whole whiteboard is dirty. And my my yp thing is on hold on my thesis little tiny eraser is embarrassing. No one can see it. And it's embarrassing. No erasing this giant whiteboard with like a half inch eraser that I have here. Hold on, you'll be all right. I've been editing like a lunatic for three weeks, so that my wife and I can go visit our kids. Oh, sweet. Oh, I basically made the backroom stuff for the podcast. I basically did three and a half weeks of it in a week and a half. So I'm a little Have you slept? No, not really. Anything so I'm getting to it though. I'll sleep I'm driving to where the kids are. How's that sound?

Kat 3:07
As long as you're not driving,

Scott Benner 3:09
I'll be driving. Okay,

Kat 3:11
so then you can't do that.

Scott Benner 3:14
Alright, cat 15 year old type one. Diagnosed how long ago?

Kat 3:19
And 2018. Okay, do the math you want me

Scott Benner 3:25
to seems like five years ago?

Kat 3:26
It was five years.

Scott Benner 3:28
Okay. So any diabetes in the family? Yes,

Kat 3:34
my will after she was diagnosed, we figured out that my grandfather's brother who died when he was young from diabetes was obviously type one. But it wasn't really talked about. And then a month after she was diagnosed my what would it be? My cousin first cousin. There you go. He was diagnosed but he was like 34 Okay. And then, three months prior to my daughter being diagnosed, I found out that the Son I gave birth to who I gave up for adoption was diabetic. Oh,

Scott Benner 4:14
that's a twist. Can't can't wait to throw a twist in in the first couple of minutes. This is how this how you come correct. Everybody who's listening. Don't Don't slow walk me on this stuff. Get it right out there. Wow. At birth given up for adoption? Yes. Wow. Okay. Okay. That's something. I'm sorry. Were they twins? No.

Kat 4:37
God, no. That would be horrible.

Scott Benner 4:43
Oh, to split. Oh, I see there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, so how old is the adopted child older than your 15 year old?

Kat 4:52
Yes. So he just turned 18 Okay,

Scott Benner 4:57
got it. How Do you know when he got diabetes? How did you find out?

Kat 5:04
So, we had an open adoption. Um, so I'm in contact with his, with his mother. And she she'd let me know. She let me know three months before my daughter was diagnosed, but he was diagnosed maybe a year before she was.

Scott Benner 5:21
Okay. So about nine months into his diagnosis, she reached thought to reach out and tell you, yes. Okay. And then, just a few months later, your daughter's diagnosed?

Kat 5:32
Yes. And that I think that was really the way that not the way we found out but my mom kind of clued in to it. When we she was my daughter was having all these issues. She was like, Do you think it could be this? And I was like, No. Like, she's she's not overweight and all of these things. And then I looked up, type one diabetes, and she was just having all of the classic symptoms.

Scott Benner 5:59
Question. That's for my interest and probably not for my child's different fathers. Same fathers.

Kat 6:06
Different fathers. I don't know the father of my birth son. Oh,

Scott Benner 6:12
okay. I don't think I want to ask about that. I don't right. Oh, wait, no matter. Really? Okay. All right, cat. Why don't you know the father of your birthstone?

Kat 6:24
Well, no, I was. I was a troubled teen. That's what it comes down to. I put myself in a predicament at the beach on a family vacation. My grandfather just passed. I didn't care what was going on. I was using drugs and alcohol and just wanted to find a place to have fun. And somebody offered to take me to like a beach party. And we went I was offered a drink. And I don't remember anything after that.

Scott Benner 6:53
I'm sorry. How old were you? I was

Kat 6:56

1415. Oh, gosh.

Scott Benner 6:58
Okay. Does your does the boy know that?

Kat 7:04
No, I don't know. The boy. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:07
Would would. Would the adopted parents know the story or? No? I told them. Okay. All right. Well, you just sobered the whole thing. Right up cat. Okay. It's okay. I'm so sorry to hear that. But it's fine. But for diabetes purposes. Looks like the type one comes through your family line as my was kind of what Yes. Initially trying to get at before we found this. But you so but you have your daughter when you're 17? Is that right? No, no.

Kat 7:38
I had her when I was 19. Okay, sorry. Okay. 19.

Scott Benner 7:43
Would you have considered yourself still a troubled teen at 19? Or no,

Kat 7:47
by 19? I had, I was in a relationship with somebody who I thought I was going to marry. I had already been to rehab for mental health and addiction. And I think I was in a more stable place. So I would say yes.

Scott Benner 8:07
Gotcha. There was that that took me in a big circle. I was like, Oh my gosh. But I got I understand though, you were like you would made a ton of improvements, but probably weren't as improved as you saw yourself. Is that fair? Oh,

Kat 8:23
100% Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 8:25
Wow. Okay, so Geez, you're only you're only 34

Kat 8:30
I am.

Scott Benner 8:31
Well has a big life. And fun. Can I tell you something? Sure. I just started a diabetes podcast. I didn't know it was all gonna go like this. And last week, people will. People will have heard the episode that I'm going to reference right now. By the time by the time yours comes out. Last week, I interviewed a 73 year old woman who had diabetes type one since she was 40. She was misdiagnosed. She had all kinds of trouble. It took a long time for them to figure out she had diabetes so her blood sugar's were kind of like high all the time. She thought she had mental health issues because of how like, you know, oddly, her brain was working but turns out her blood sugar was just high. She divorced her husband because of this never had children because of it. embarked on a three year lesbian relationship came back out of that. And like she's telling me this whole big story. And we're maybe 45 minutes into it. And all I could think about was like, wow, like if you live long enough, like look at the perspective you gain because this woman was so happy and and just healthy and and you know what I mean? Like really interesting. And then I don't know what happened. We must have gotten to the point where she was so comfortable while we were talking. She discloses that she was molested at 10 years old by a by a family member. Wow. And if my takeaway I'm telling you right now, my takeaway after speaking with her for that long was people can get through anything really impressive, like just the like where she is now compared to all of the things that she had gone through, you would think that would create just a broken person, but it didn't. It really can. It can. Sure it can. Yeah, but like, I'm just fascinated that anybody could have gotten through something like that. And hers. Her story was just, it's incredible. Like, it's gonna be shocking. While you're listening to it. Like it's gonna come out of nowhere. And it really ended. It shocked me. I didn't know what to say. Because she was because she was also I don't know, if everybody knows older people, but you lose your like your filter a little bit like she did. She was very just direct about what happened to her. And I was I was so stunned. I couldn't talk. So it was it was really something but I'm asking you now because in my mind, you've had a few of her experiences. And I'm wondering, you know, they're about at 34 How far to free and easy 73 year old cat Are you? The podcast is sponsored today, by the place where I kept my oh gosh, my sheets, my towels, some of my clothing. A lot of the things that I stay warm are comfortable with cozy earth.com I'm wearing a pair of cozy Earth joggers right now, I've recently gotten another pair in a different color. I sleep on cozy Earth sheets. They're so comfortable and soft and temperate, temperate, meaning I'm never hot or cold. Which is really saying something because my wife loves to turn that giant fan on but they keep me nice and warm without making me like sweaty or moist. You know what I mean? Want to be moist while you're sleeping. And then of course, the waffle towels I use every day to dry off my bits and parts. After I've showered cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% off of your entire order. I'm not saying 40% off of one item, I'm saying 40% off of everything you put in the cart, cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout. diabetes comes with a lot of things to remember. So it's nice when someone takes something off of your plate. US med has done that for us. When it's time for art and supplies to be refreshed. We get an email rolls up in your inbox says hi Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from us med. You open up the email. It's a big button that says click here to reorder. And you're done. Finally, somebody taking away a responsibility instead of adding one. US med has done that for us. An email arrives, we click on a link and the next thing you know your products are at the front door. That simple. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 I never have to wonder if Arden has enough supplies. I click on one link. I opened up a box. I put the stuff in the drawer. And we're done. US med carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three, and the Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide, over 800 private insurers. And all you have to do to get started is called 888-721-1514. Or go to my link us med.com/juicebox using that number or my link helps to support the production of the Juicebox Podcast.

Kat 13:52
I think I'm pretty much there.

Scott Benner 13:53
Wow. That's so cool.

Kat 13:55
I yeah, I I mean, just life throws curveballs at you. And you either deal with them or you don't what helped you get through all that? My daughter probably the fact that I'm a single parent, I don't have another choice.

Scott Benner 14:12
But you know other people just are bad parents in that situation. They don't take the choice you took you don't know why

Kat 14:18
you well. I wasn't always like this though. Oh, definitely not. All right. So I mean, I've I've relapsed after being sober for 10 years. You know, I've I've definitely made mistakes along the way. But I don't know you just get older and something just clicks in you. Yeah. You're like, All right, enough is

Scott Benner 14:36
enough. Were you ever a 22 year old girl and Black Sabbath t shirt in an arcade holding the baby?

Kat 14:42
No. Black that was not my thing. But no,

Scott Benner 14:48
I'm sorry, was it it was an inexpensive shirt.

Kat 14:51
No, it'd be more like Tupac or something.

Scott Benner 14:54
I gotcha. Oh, that's. How about that? Well, good. I mean, listen, I'm gonna congratulate you but does it Feel like luck. Does it feel like hard work? Or does it feel like a blend?

Kat 15:06
I think a blend. I don't think I'm fully done growing in that aspect. But I'm trying, I'm getting there. And I need to quit saying, I'm sorry, you're

Scott Benner 15:17
fine. I don't care what the hell you say keep talking. You're doing great. I have three words written down in front of me. But if, or excuse me, so an arm. But so those are the words that I say, No, those are the words. I try not to say. Oh, yeah, I tried a lot. Um, I use when I'm thinking sometimes, but I don't know. I think it's the pressure to talk because I'm being recorded. Because in real life, I don't say it. Yeah. So I could see that. Yes. So is a connecting word. And I just need to like I know other connecting words, but I get lazy. And I say so a lot. Anyway, see there? I could have said so. But I said anyway. Good job. Yes. Thank you very much. I'll be good at this. By the time I'm done doing it maybe was just fascinating. Like, did you have good family support? Like, am I picturing you and your Tupac shirt? Your mom at home like June Cleaver? Or is your mom at home having her own troubles?

Kat 16:20
I had amazing family support. Complicated. My dad is an alcoholic functioning. My mother is currently going through rehab of for alcoholism and mental health. So it's, it's shifted a little bit but I'm my extended family, my aunts and everybody, my brother. Just constant support

Scott Benner 16:46
for nice. That's excellent. So I'm gonna tell you, I think that alcohol is probably the most dangerous substance I've seen people use. I mean, it's awful. Yeah, I mean, I guess heroin, maybe you know, or, like, yeah, in that kind of like, legal,

Kat 17:01
the worst legal. Even, like,

Scott Benner 17:04
when you get up into the, the opioids, then obviously, there's another danger there. But I mean, you know, things that people do to alleviate their pressure and stress, you know, we like drinking like drinking really men just, it just gets some people in a way. You know, and and the impact it has on their children is always, always there. You don't you don't grow up with alcoholic parents and not have a big bag tied around your neck that you're dragging. That's for sure. Well, okay. Why the hell are you on this podcast? Cat just the freak me out on a Monday morning? Or you got more further than that? What did you? What did you decide that you wanted to come on for?

Kat 17:44
I don't know. You know, it was one of those things where you signed up because you thought it was a good idea. And then you were like, What did I do? Yeah, one of those moments, my wife

Scott Benner 17:53
has that look on her face a lot.

Kat 17:57
No, I just thought it was just interesting how I've the combination of finding out how my childhood diabetes had to do with my mom connecting it to us just being told about my son having my birth son having been diagnosed. So I just thought that was interesting.

Scott Benner 18:17
It is it is but so you think that basically hearing the story about him then planted the seeds in your head so that when your daughter started to get sick, you saw something you maybe never would have seen otherwise? Oh,

Kat 18:30
no, I didn't see anything. He was your mom. My mom. Yes, no, my daughter was hours from being dead. Oh my gosh, he looked like an I don't want to offend anybody. But she looked like, you know, the emaciated bone. Just skin and bone that you see in third world countries like it was. It was shocking. And I just kept telling my family like, I know something's wrong. Like she's, where are her muscles. She's so athletic. And she had no muscle. And it was always, you know, the usual she's growing her her weight hasn't, you know, come back from her growing inches and blah, blah, blah.

Scott Benner 19:11
How quickly do you think that transformation happened?

Kat 19:13
I think about two months. Because I remember the last like picture I saw of her was in July at my aunt's birthday party, where she looked quote unquote, normal. And then after that, it was just downhill

Scott Benner 19:31
happens really quickly. Shocking. Yeah. Yeah, it did. And it just, it's just slow enough that people around you can say things like, oh, it's probably a growth spurt. But you could tell. No. But you're also what like what stops you from? From like, I don't know, moving this to an emergent problem like calling a doctor or something like that.

Kat 19:54
It's because she was not. I'm a nurse and I know what I pulled over my A parent's eyes and I'm not going to be you know, that same parent. So, like, I would never let her stay home from school, because she was eating. She didn't have fever. You know, none of the signs were there where you know something's wrong. So I just didn't clue in on it. There was an excuse for everything. Issues. You can excuse everything away. Is she a good kid? Amazing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 20:25
Is it a failure? Like you can't stay home from school? I know. You're gonna make a bomb. Yeah. You're not inviting 20 boys over here. I'm 12. Like, so? You just you're defending against the things you remember in your life? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was interesting. But she's not like that, right?

Kat 20:45
Not at all. I don't know how she's my child. Or she's way better

Scott Benner 20:49
at hiding it than you are. I'm just kidding. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So you were like, press on get going. We're not giving. And yet she was she was on her way out. What was her? You know, her blood sugar when they leave took her in? How did you end up with the hospital.

Kat 21:09
So it started with my daughter throwing up at school, but she had PE first Ariat her first period. So I was like, Well, she didn't eat anything. Of course, she's gonna throw up. And then she had soccer practice after school. And she threw up there. And I was like, well, she just ate of course, she's gonna grow up. And then she just didn't feel well at all. And my daughter cannot take medication at all. Like, her gag reflex is awful. And I said, Okay, if you take medication, I won't let you go to school tomorrow. I won't make you go to school tomorrow. So she took it and she slept that whole entire day. Not one time did she wake up? But the next day I told her like, you don't have fever, you're gonna gonna go to school. And that's when my mom stepped in and said, hey, you know, like, she really doesn't feel well. Why don't you you know, let her stay home. Let's take her to the doctor. But because of my job, I'm a home health nurse. I have patients that I've already scheduled. And so I couldn't take her. So my two aunts who are amazing. They took her to the doctor's office. And as soon as they saw her, they rushed her to the hospital. I was actually draining along when I got the call that she was diabetic.

Scott Benner 22:18
Why you just named the episode Aqua alone. Good job, cat. Fantastic. Do you think people know Jethro Tull? Probably not right? Doesn't matter.

Kat 22:29
I have no clue what you're talking about. He's

Scott Benner 22:30
gonna say you don't know, either. I'm still writing it down. Well, that's crazy. And you know, what it really highlights to me is how the idea of death is the last thing your brain will consider. Because I mean, come on. She threw up in the morning. She threw up in the afternoon. She slept an entire day away. And you were like, go to school? Yeah, yeah. But it's just because your brain won't your brain doesn't go there. It's the same thing when like people smoke, or they're like, I won't get lung cancer. Like, it's, it's that thing. Like even when presented with it. People will say no, it's not going to be me. And so it's a perseverance gene. I think it's why we we persist as as a you know, as humans, but it also in these specific circumstances, makes people press on when pressing on is not the right answer anymore. But yeah, your mom, huh? Good for her. Yes, yeah. And she didn't have any trouble. She didn't have any trouble telling you sometimes in a, like a mother daughter relationship. She might have thought that and kept it to herself.

Kat 23:38
I'm sure she was very scared to tell me. But I'm thankful she did. You

Scott Benner 23:44
mean after all the stuff that happened while she was raising you? She was probably like, I don't need this kid flipping out. Can you tell me for certain that you have stood in your kitchen screaming at your mom and your lifetime?

Kat 23:56
Oh, I can't tell you how many times you wish you could go back 100% It's still happening at the current moment, but only because of the things that my mom's going through right now.

Scott Benner 24:09
Is she having health issues? Mental health issues

Kat 24:13
and addiction. She's literally in rehab right now. Oh, I

Scott Benner 24:17
see. Oh, wow. Now you're Oh, wow. Hey, what did they what do they say? Now the master becomes the apprentice and the apprentice becomes that what is that? Exactly? The student becomes the teacher. So the thing she was watching you do urinal watching her do, huh? Wow. But she didn't have these issues earlier in life.

Kat 24:38
I think the alcoholism, yes. But my dad was an alcohol alcoholic. So everything was focused on him. And I think hers just kind of went to the wayside and then she had like a mental breakdown. And Christmas of last year, and it just increased everything. The alcoholism increased, which then affected her mental health, which then my brother and I stepped in and got her some help. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 25:15
Were they just propping each other up while they were together with the alcoholic stuff? Like they were just looking out for each other keep at it, like, are they functioning, very

Kat 25:25
functioning? Yeah, that's, that's the worst is a functioning alcoholic because they don't see wrong in anything they're doing because they're still able to hold a job, they're still able to, you know, make money and, and do the everyday things that everyone else does.

Scott Benner 25:39
That's the same thing I just said, except focus a different way. Like they they think like, it's okay, we got a goal and I'm getting up in the morning I do the things I'm supposed to do. It's not me, you know, they don't see the end, they don't see the end. Like if you go back 15 years and tell your mom like, Hey, you're gonna have a breakdown and like, you know, have mental health issues and blah, blah, blah. She goes, oh my god, I got this all together. It's interesting. Yeah. 100% Yeah, I'm sorry. That's that's a lot. And you're able to hold on to your sobriety while this is all going on. I am six Why do you think what do you what what keeps you where you're at? My

Kat 26:16
child? Just, I mean, there's no other option. It's not that it's not there. I do work every day to curb the the cravings and thoughts and once and all of that. And it does get easier over time. But it's just I mean, I've seen it I've seen it just destroy my family in a different form. Obviously, I was into drugs and my alcohol is usually the the substance that is affecting many of my other family members. But it's does the same thing. It just tears everybody apart.

Scott Benner 26:49
When you were younger. What what kinds of drugs? I

Kat 26:53
started with cocaine. And then in rehab. I switched to meth.

Scott Benner 27:01
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, jump right in cat. Yeah, no. skipped right over all of the stuff that like you were just like, Wait, I don't wait. It's not enough. I'm gonna go right there. Yeah. Wow. And

Kat 27:15
then I think because my dad smoked weed that I was just like, I'm not doing that. I'm gonna be better than him and not smoke weed.

Scott Benner 27:23
I'll do an upscale drug like, okay, yeah, good for you. Wait a way to pull together. I heard you laugh under your voice when you said in rehab I started using.

Kat 27:33
Because it's crazy. I think about it now. And I'm like that. It just is. It's, it's sad, honestly, because it's a place where you're supposed to go to get better. And it's the place where I found more connections, I found people who were like me who are going through similar things, who had their own dealers and their own connections. And then we were just a bunch of people. If you weren't in the mindset of actually getting better. We were just a bunch of people with all these connections. Now, ya

Scott Benner 28:02
know, it's like the Lions Club for meth. You're like, yeah, these guys all get together in a room drink coffee and like, trade phone numbers. Wow, that's fascinating. And then the people and there are people that are really like on the right path, and they just don't. You don't bother with them. The other people are running. You can tell business. Yeah. And it's and it's all money focused, I would imagine, too, right? Like you're trying to sell or, you know, sell so that you have more like, oh, wow, it's just, it's all the same thing. It's the same thing is the as the functioning alcoholic thing, except you're trying to be a functioning meth user. How long does that work for by the way? And do you have? Oh, God, I do have all my teeth for you.

Kat 28:46
I don't know how long that lasted. That's crazy.

Scott Benner 28:48
What's the difference? Between I can't play with a mask? And what's the difference between the highs from cocaine to meth?

Kat 28:56
So what my memory sucks because of it? I think I have a little bit of brain damage going on because of it. But I think that the the transition from cocaine to meth was necessary because the, I mean, I was using so much cocaine, that it was falling out of my nose because my nose was so inflamed that nothing else could go in. And so the need to do more and do more was there and mess. You know, like, surpass that. So

Scott Benner 29:28
let's talk about delivery. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's interesting. How do you How does I mean? I'm assuming there was a rock bottom moment. How did you get out of it? I guess like what precipitates getting out of it. I

Kat 29:44
don't recall the exact moment but nothing happened. I just, I actually so I went into rehab after having a breakdown from not having Any more cocaine. I contacted my mom and she said I was freaking out. And she called my therapist and my therapist put me in, but it was it was, what, two or three months after I gave my son up for adoption. So it's a thought it was due to depression. They didn't know about my drug use until I entered rehab. And the therapist kind of brought it out of me, and then he snitched on me, which I thought he couldn't do because patient, Doctor confidentiality, saw

Scott Benner 30:33
that on Grey's Anatomy, and you were like, I'll be okay. I can tell them.

Kat 30:36
Yeah, apparently, it's out words.

Scott Benner 30:39
I didn't realize that this was all happening when you were so young. Yes, yeah.

Kat 30:44
And a funny not but not funny. The place I went, is currently where my mother is.

Scott Benner 30:53
Did full circle did you get like a punch card? Like a referral service? Do you know? I asked? Can I get anything for free? If all of us come?

Kat 31:02
Yeah, we'll keep you in business.

Scott Benner 31:04
Is it possible to have a relationship during the life you're describing? I know, you said you're a single mom over and over again. But like, did you try? Yeah,

Kat 31:13
cuz I have bouts where I was not using. I mean, I was sober for 10 years. Until I decided Mali was the thing that I wanted to try. It wasn't out when I was using. So let's give it a go.

Scott Benner 31:26
Where does that come from? Where does that try to find that thought for me. You've been sober for 10 years, your kid you're doing your thing. It's all going right. And then one day, you're like, hey, you know what I should do? Molly.

Kat 31:39
I had, I had a bad influence. My best friend. She was is an addict. And I think she just allowed me to give myself the okay to do it. She came back into my life. Like when I was sober. I cut her out of my life because it was too much. And for some reason, she comes around every once in a while. And if I let her in, my life turns to shit. Yeah. And that's exactly what happened. I let her in. And then she's, you know, in that state, and it just kind of sucks you back in? And what and? I mean, it just took over again.

Scott Benner 32:19
Does it look fun? Or inviting? Or how do you like when you see her? Hi, what are you? What's the thought? It

Kat 32:24
looks like a mess. It's not it's not a pretty sight, but I'm not her. So our our two ways of, of how we are when we're using are completely different. So I am more of a functioning? Well, I would think I thought of myself as more of a functioning user until I couldn't stop using.

Scott Benner 32:44
Yeah, I was gonna say that's the interpretation from a person who called her mom to call her mom to complain. There wasn't enough cocaine. So mom, I need help. Okay. Like, you know, I just can't get enough coke. So I called my mom again. That's, yeah, I guess while you're doing it, you don't know. But when you're hearing it as the person who's so stupid, yeah, you're like, Oh, wow. That's, it's like, it's like, if you ever heard that there's a great, a great audio clip online. Back before the internet was so like, full of video and stuff like that, where this guy just calls 911. And he's like, hello, I'm dead. And they're like, yes. And he's, he's just he's tried to like, eat like a pot Brown. He's like an older man. He had a pot brownie for the first time he calls the cops to tell them that he died. And that it's because he ate weed and he needs help. Yes, I have heard that. That's great. In my mind, that's you call it your mom.

Kat 33:43
Pretty much. Like who's the last person

Scott Benner 33:45
I should tell that I'm using cocaine to? I'm gonna go with my mom. And then and then I'm gonna complain about availability. Wow, that's crazy. Did your nose hold up? Did it didn't collapse that

Kat 33:56
I have hold on my septum. But yeah, that's good.

Scott Benner 34:01
You know, the comedian Artie Lange? I do not his his whole nose collapsed. It's it's just it's the

Kat 34:08
it's the crazy you're about to say fantastic. I

Scott Benner 34:10
know. But I didn't mean fantastic in the way of like, it's amazing. Fantastic. Like, it's fantastic in in how like, insane. It is. Like, yeah, like, by the way you can use fantastic in different ways. I didn't mean but I did stop myself because I was like, I don't want to explain what I mean. But it's just it's so crazy. And just unlike anything I've ever seen in my life. And, and yet, it doesn't matter, right? Because when your friend comes along with the MOLLE you're like, I won't. I want it up like that. Not me. Not me is how is the phrase that gets everybody into trouble. I won't get pregnant. It's okay, go ahead.

Kat 34:52
You can just you think you can just try a little and you'll you'll be okay. And some people can and that's and that's very uh, setting, but some people can actually do that. Gambling

Scott Benner 35:02
is no different than this either. It's all sort of the same stuff. Yeah, just make a bet. placed one bet. And then the next thing you know, it's three weeks later, and you're like, cool. I'd

Kat 35:13
like to gamble too. Yeah. Well, I

Scott Benner 35:15
bet you do. Call on your Yeah. Call it but so this sounds like a family thing.

Kat 35:19
Oh, yeah. Yeah. My brother had a gambling problem. Yeah, I think addiction is just like, embedded in my family.

Scott Benner 35:26
Is it wrong for me to ask what genre you are? Your family? You know, I mean, guys, Irish. You Italian? What are you? Exactly?

Kat 35:34
We are Polish. English. I think there are some Irish in there.

Scott Benner 35:41
Okay. All right. All right. Okay. So I love so far my favorite part of this conversation is that you thought you were going to be interesting on the podcast, because of the way your mom figured out that your kid had diabetes. Holan Ardens. Colony? This never happens. Give me a second. Yes, sir. Our exam, right. I'm recording. Is this like a big thing? What do you need? You have a tie that a question. Okay. Can Can people hear it? Can I record it? Or do you want to keep it private? Good. That means switch your it's your Dexcom. Yeah, well, you're into your grace period, which means like 12 hours ago, it would have told you or something like that. But it only takes it only takes 30 minutes to warm up. So just pop it on. All right. Good luck. God, God, God, what do you got? Hold on. Sorry, I can't I'll be right back on. I'm in the middle of talking to cat. She's living a life of addiction. And she's clean now. And now we're talking about your Dexcom? Don't be sorry, it's fine. You're fine. You just need to switch your Dexcom the g7? You can but yeah, you can you can you're not going to have numbers for 30 minutes. If you do that. You can also put the new one on. And then 30 aren't good luck. Bye. I have a diabetic question.

Kat 37:01
I thought she had been wearing the g7

Scott Benner 37:03
or second one. So she didn't know that. Yeah, so she's had g7 on one time while I was there for a trip just to test it so that we'd know. She could switch on our own college while I wasn't there. Then she made the switch. So her like her first one, she switched out, you know, 10 days. This one apparently she got there into like finals now. And everything like she's running around like a lunatic trying to keep up with with school. And it sounds like the the new g7 has a grace period, which is kind of terrific. Because you know, otherwise, this one would have shut down at the end of 10 days. So she just gets this notification like your grace periods over in an hour. But she's got to be at class and our she's like, what does that mean? Like it means to get a change. What she wouldn't let me tell her is that the grace periods over and an hour, so she's gonna swap them real quickly and then not have data for a half hour, she could actually put a new g7 on, wait 30 minutes, then swap them. And she'd never be without data. But that seemed like that as she was rushing through the door, and I heard doors banging and everything. And she's running back to her room to get a Dexcom. I think perhaps that might have been too much information. So I'll cover that when I see her in a couple of weeks. Anyway, I said like I'm talking to cat and cats like blah, blah, blah. And she goes well, I'm sorry, but hold on.

Kat 38:27
It's very important.

Scott Benner 38:28
She doesn't she doesn't call me and it wasn't a FaceTime. That's how I knew like she actually needed something. Cuz Yeah, she's trying to connect quickly. Whereas when they just want to chat like they pop up on FaceTime and stuff like that. So anyway, no worries. My amusement is that you thought the the interesting part of this conversation, but was about your mom, but did you really think that you listen to the podcast? Of course I do. You knew we were going to talk about this then. Yeah. Did you want to talk about it? Do you think? I don't care? If it I mean, like subconsciously, did you think I'll go on that podcast and we'll talk about this stuff? I'm trying to figure out if people come here for therapy. Yes.

Kat 39:05
You know, I did just sign up with BetterHelp. So I am definitely in need of therapy. Cat.

Scott Benner 39:11
Did you use my link better? help.com forward slash juicebox? I sure did they give you 10% off your first month of therapy when you signed up? They sure did. Wow. That's amazing. Thank you.

Kat 39:21
It does amazing. Thank you. Yeah,

Scott Benner 39:23
let me know. I'd love to know how it goes actually. Well, yeah, it was it's one of those things. A lot of companies come to me and they want to buy ads, which is cool. Like I'm happy about that. But I try to keep this stuff very focused on what I think the listeners might generally need or want. And this one just like I just kept thinking, therapy, you know, as many people as I speak to who I kind of quietly in my head think this person needs to go to therapy, and I never really say it out loud. I always think like access to it must be the biggest problem for people like that actually, like getting up off your ass and go into someone's office and sitting down probably feels like a bridge too far. And I thought, Yeah, I wonder if this like virtual therapy thing isn't isn't good for people. So anyway, hopefully, hopefully it all works out and it's good. A good experience. Yep. Yeah. So you just want to talk to somebody, I need to talk to somebody, because if not, go ahead what happens?

Kat 40:19
I'm going to hurt my mother.

Scott Benner 40:24
When I thought you're gonna Okay, wow. I'm

Kat 40:30
trying to finally like being an adult, you know, and I've tried to set boundaries with her and it's just not getting through. And I'm, yeah, I think everybody needs therapy. Everybody should have like a required therapy session once a month or something. It's very necessary.

Scott Benner 40:49
I'm using weego V to lose weight. Right. And by the way, I got up this morning, and I'm down like, I think I'm like 19 or 20 pounds now. Crazy in two months. Right. And I just that thank you, I, I feel so much better. And like all this other stuff, right. But I recorded with Erica the other day, who's the therapist, because I was experiencing this hollow feeling around food, which threw me off because I'm not like a foodie to begin with. And but I guess I don't spend as much time prepping food, shopping, cooking, eating, cleaning up like that whole, like everybody knows, like, although a ton of work that goes into food, right? And I'm not doing that any longer to that degree. And I started feeling like I was missing something. Like I honestly had like a hollow feeling. And I asked Erica to come on to talk about it. And we're talking about it. And like 45 minutes into the conversation we're somehow talking about, like, when I was a kid, and like all this stuff. And she's reminding people like, I'm not Scott's therapist. But all I can say is that probably every thought you're having, you know, maybe one in two of them stems from something you don't consider. So yeah, yeah. Anyway, I feel really good. And I know. But it was nice to talk to her. And now, by the way, like that hollow feeling that I described, since I spoke to her. I haven't had any more. Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, yes. So makes you wonder what would happen if your, your parents would have talked to somebody? You know, 50 years ago, the first time they were like, I have to drink to get through a day? Mm hmm.

Kat 42:34
Yeah. Just so that was normal back then. Oh,

Scott Benner 42:38
sure. Oh, yeah. That was like get sick, or there were cigarettes. And for your nerves, right? Like I would I would? Do you know, I grew up with people who said they smoke cigarettes to calm their stomach. Well, that's a very common thing you would hear from people I just smoke a cigarette, it calms my stomach down. So, you know, I don't think it's crazy. Then people's understanding of every everything just changes so greatly, like generation after generation. Like I was talking to Jenny and like a diabetes like myth episode. And I said, if you would have told my mom that the like, the sugar water in our refrigerator when I was growing up that we drank by the gallon, day after day after day, right? If you would have told my mom that wasn't good for you, she would have looked at you and like pointed to the label and said there's there's lemons, lemons, grown trees. You don't I mean, look, there's a picture of a lemon on it. A lemon is a fruit. I'm giving you something healthy. Yeah. So yeah, people don't don't get it. But now you're you're caught in the middle, like you, you get it, because now there's more information in the world and you understand, but you also grew up with them. So I'm assuming your life's goal. Like if I asked you what your life's goal is around parenting, I think you're going to say what I'm thinking, but I'm going to ask you anyway. You just you, I felt pressure. Not a lot of pressure. But here's what I think. I think you're trying very hard for your daughter not to grow up the way you grew up. Yes. 100%. Right. Is it? Is it working?

Kat 44:08
I think so. I mean, I think the proof is in the pudding of her just being such an amazing person that nobody in my family understands how she's my child, because everybody my family knows me. So it just doesn't those who just don't add up.

Scott Benner 44:22
Well, that's so that's your level of like, of measurement. You're like people think that's not my kid, so that's a good but don't you think here I'll be your therapist for a second cat. Okay. Couldn't you have been that person with the right upbringing? I don't know. You could have been. You definitely.

Kat 44:44
Then it would have been something else.

Scott Benner 44:45
Maybe? I don't know. Like, do you think that the the addiction thing is burned into your brain or do you think it's something you learned? Both

Kat 44:57
I grew up in a very small town there was nothing to do Oh, besides get in trouble.

Scott Benner 45:02
Yeah, that that one baffles me a little bit like the small town lot of drugs thing like Midwestern like, that kind of like thing like, right like why is it when you're in a small town? It's like well, there's nothing to do so we did math, which is a hell of a way to go into a movie. And and like, oh, I grew up in a big city and we're always partying so we did this. Like, like, it's the is the boredom that crazy? Yeah. It just goes on and on day after day, hour after hour, not Yeah,

Kat 45:35
I mean, there, there was the only thing there was to do in my town was go to Sonic and hold that

Scott Benner 45:41
thought. Hi, yards. What's up? Okay, go ahead. It says the sensor failed. Okay, well, then just follow the instructions and start a new one. I mean, I don't know. I'm not there. I don't know what happened. Right. Yeah. Replace this answer. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we're very new with this one. So I don't know if there's a workaround for that. So I would just start another one. Yeah, yeah. That sucks. I know. You're, you're short on time. Okay, go ahead and do that. Good luck, by when it rains candidate pours.

Kat 46:32
Of course, when she has finals. She's

Scott Benner 46:34
like, I'm all done. It says like, you know, I did the whole thing. I paired the Bluetooth blah, blah, blah. It's all ready to go. And then like seven minutes into the warm up, it said sensor failure. And I don't know if that's a thing that would have like, gone away. Like, you know, because sometimes Yeah, but these things like it. Can give it a second. Yeah, yeah. It'll just be okay. I don't know what hell let it go. Wait, just swap it. I have extras here. I'll bring an extra receipt or in a week so I can bring an extra one with me. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Sonic.

Kat 47:08
Sonic. Yes. Yeah. That was about the biggest thing there was to do. Yeah, we had an outdoor volleyball court. So it was like, better than most people Sonics. But when the whole city is there, or the town? You know, it just that's, that's all you have to do?

Scott Benner 47:25
Do you think that if there was more to do, there'd be less drug use?

Kat 47:29
Possibly. But you're just stuck in like, the small town is great to grow up in but you got to get out or you'll never get out. Like you get stuck. And it's just generation after generation just gets stuck. They're doing the same jobs, the same family jobs running the same, you know, family operations, and it's just so stagnant. But they're just so afraid to leave?

Scott Benner 47:51
Yeah, it's boring. Yeah, your brain just shuts off. I got it. Okay. And then you drink. Or you try coax like bracing? Right? Like, zoom? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow. And when is the first time you used? How

Kat 48:10
old? Maybe? 12.

Scott Benner 48:14
Wow. Wow, that's crazy. Where do you get it from it? 12 anywhere?

Kat 48:21
Yeah, I mean, I it started with my friend, that best friend of mine. That's not a good influence person to have. Yeah. It started with her. Just having connections with her. And then you kind of

Scott Benner 48:36
you always have access to it, then that old like parenting chestnut of like, keeping the bad kids away from your kids. It's really a good thing to do.

Kat 48:42
It's really a good thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 48:45
How many friends? Do you allow your daughter to have one?

Kat 48:50
No, I mean, it's just, she's just different. Even though she has like some friends where I'm kinda like, yeah, she reminds me exactly of my old best friend. My daughter is not influenced by any of that she could care less. She's like, not into boys. She's just about school and sports. It's amazing.

Scott Benner 49:11
It's not exactly birds of a feather flock together then like it's, it's, it's a little bit of, you know, once you're there, how do you handle it? Yeah, and some people hate

Kat 49:20
I mean, she'll, she'll call me if she's uncomfortable, you know, and want to come home. Just again. I don't know how she's my child.

Scott Benner 49:28
Hey, I don't know if this is an uncomfortable question. But her father is he an addictive personality?

Kat 49:33
No. Okay. I don't think he ever did drugs or anything.

Scott Benner 49:40
Or anything.

Kat 49:44
For actually here, I think he was addicted to porn, so maybe he does.

Scott Benner 49:49
I was gonna say like, you were the bad influence in his life.

Kat 49:51
I actually met him. afterwards. Our rehab group had a party at his apartment. That's how I met him. Your

Scott Benner 50:00
rehab group had a party at his apartment. But that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Whenever the rehab group gets together, I think you go No, thanks. I can't go. What are you? What are you all is just looking for for customers? I gotcha. Well, yeah, it's like a built in Salesforce. Yeah. Really? Is that something? But if you gave everybody money, like if you like you thought about Utopia from it where you've money wasn't important. The boredom would still be there. So yeah, what your

Kat 50:34
real money? I was gonna say 12

Scott Benner 50:37
Were the like, that was the thing. I was like, how did you afford a 12 years old? I just feel bubblegum. I was like, I can't, I don't know. Five cents. So

Kat 50:46
I just never ate lunch. But I always needed lunch money.

Scott Benner 50:50
I see. You used your lunch money for cocaine when you were 12. I did. That's something else. You shouldn't be on this podcast should be should be on like 2020. No, thank you, or I should be getting more of respect as an interviewer one or the other. Okay, wow. That's crazy. Okay, so hold on. That one got me. Like I literally like I do remember being like, pinched, pinched for like shoplifting bubble gum once. And my parents they punished me. I sat in a room for a week, a week, in a bedroom with no television. No radio. No nothing during my summer vacation. That's how my parents handled me shoplifting like 20 cents worth of bubblegum.

Kat 51:41
You're not supposed to get caught.

Scott Benner 51:43
You know what? Looking back, I am disappointed in myself. I'll tell you what, I worked in that 711 As a teenager, I never caught anybody stealing anything.

Kat 51:58
Yeah, you really suck at that turns

Scott Benner 51:59
out I'm no good on either end of that problem. Oh, that's hilarious. But I'll tell you what, like at the end of those seven days, they let me out of that bedroom. Felt like it felt like they opened the doors at Rikers Island for the first time. Like, I was like, I will steal anything. Thank you for letting me out.

Kat 52:21
Maybe that's what my parents should have done to me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 52:24
that's the 70s right there. They were like you're a problem. Get in there. Like lovely. They fed you. I'm glad there was a room now that I'm thinking about it. Could have been in a closet who would have known? They did feed me. Although, I don't know. I'm thinking back on myself. I probably could have skipped a meal or two back then it might not have been a problem. The way they were feeding me sugar, water and bread with cheese. Here have more bread. Yeah, I have some bread with cheese and a glass of sugar. Thank you. Let's find a way to blame them cat. Maybe my brain wasn't working right because of my nutrition. Oh my god. So you had some money? That's craziness. Wow, did you move you didn't get away, you're near your mom.

Kat 53:07
I did move. I moved out of the small town when I was a sophomore, to be more competitive in sports, because we didn't have a lot of scouts coming down to the small town. And that just allowed me to have more I saw i i moved to a very, like, I would say like rich white school. And the first day I was there, I was going in to take my entrance entrance exams. And some kid walked up to me and offered me drugs. And I was like, and I was like, I was like I y'all do that here. Like I I was just in disbelief. And then I'm like, Well, of course they do. They have more access to it. They have money, they can get these things. But it was just so shocking, that I left this small town and came to a place that had it even worse.

Scott Benner 54:00
Wow. What What sport were you trying to excel in?

Kat 54:04
Everything? Volleyball soccer track.

Scott Benner 54:07
We had all that coke energy, I guess so.

Kat 54:11
Yeah, you know what? It never really affected me. I don't know how I really don't know how I got through it. I shouldn't be alive right now. But I know

Scott Benner 54:18
we're joking about it. Because it's kind of horrible. But like it's yeah, interesting and, and fascinating. Yeah, so you got there. And did you think this will help me like, oh, by the way, you facilitated a move as a sophomore?

Kat 54:32
Yeah, so we had volleyball tryouts. And I didn't make a team and my dad, which is crazy because I was the best person on the team. And the coach didn't like me, because I had an ego. But after they didn't put me on a team, literally that same day, my dad went up there yelled at them, made them cry, and we moved

Scott Benner 54:56
crazy drunk energy your dad had something like that. He's like we're getting out of here. Like that's it over this. Maybe your dad really thought like, maybe he was trying to do. I mean, it's hard to look back and see people doing things. So obviously wrong and believe that they were still had good motivations too, but maybe your dad was like, I can get her out of here. Like maybe he was trying to save you, you know? Maybe Yeah, it's hard for you to think of it that way. Because you probably think he's an asshole. But like shitting Apple, the function? Yes. Oh, look at you trying to rename the episode again. To try but I can't put an S hole in the title. So isn't it something if you don't have a functioning asshole, you're in a lot of trouble. You really are. No kidding. But then in that situation, not what you're looking for. Boom. Okay, so you go to another high school. Okay. All right. That's enough. I can't take any more of your life. Let me ask you about diabetes stuff. Literally, your, your Friday, I'm going to be doing cocaine before this is over. So recommended. No, don't worry, I'm good. I'm not going to be doing that. diabetes stuff. So you're raising a kid for the last handful of years. Whereas type one you didn't have much to knowledge of it. You're, you know, you're prone to, you know, kind of turning to drugs if you have problems and things like that. So can you talk a little bit about after her diagnosis, like what was her able and see like, how high was her blood sugar when you guys figured it out? And then how have you been managing moving forward?

Kat 56:35
So in the hospital, she was like, 600 700. So Ray, once he was around, like 13, or 14, we had, I think, the luck of the draw, honestly, the doctor that was on call when my daughter was admitted, is still her current doctor. And she's amazing. She set us up for success. You know, we got the JDRF backpack and all of that stuff which had a an omni pod and it I don't think it had the Dexcom information in there. But we left the hospital on just pins and a glucometer. And then I notified my my birth son's mother, you know that my daughter just got diagnosed and the first thing she told me was good index calm. So she was the one who informed me about the ducks calm. So we were on the Dexcom shortly after that. And we stayed on MDI for about a year and then we switched to the Omni pod and use that up until two months ago when she finally switched to the Omni pod five.

Scott Benner 57:40
Wow, how are you finding that? Ami pod five.

Kat 57:43
Good and bad. Yeah. So her her school struck? I don't know what she what happens to her when she goes to school, but it just cannot keep up with her. Like we're just feeding it insulin, and it just doesn't touch her when she's at school.

Scott Benner 57:58
How long has she been using it?

Kat 57:59
The five? Yeah, about to about two months. Okay.

Scott Benner 58:02
Did you listen to the episodes about setting it up before you set it up? I did. Okay, and so you feel like you were pretty 5050 Basal Bolus and pretty aggressive with total daily insulin. So

Kat 58:15
did I change? I turned up everything. I turned up her carb, insulin to carb ratio I, I turned up everything made everything more aggressive. And it just doesn't matter. So

Scott Benner 58:25
is it you think? Does she have maybe a lot of adrenaline at school school mean a lot to her?

Kat 58:33
Yeah, it's gotta be what it is. And it's not the same thing every day, like on the ad days where she has obviously the same things. It's different than when she has V days. So it it completely is affecting her by what she's having at school. What subjects is what I'm assuming? Yeah. Okay. But when but when we first started, it was over spring break. And it was working perfect. So I really think it is just her school.

Scott Benner 58:58
Just gonna say so she's home. And there's no pressure from school. There's no adrenaline, anxiety, whatever it comes from school. I don't know who like who she is. And like, maybe she's just trying real hard and like, jacked up. So when she's at home, it works great when she's getting that. It's not touching it because it doesn't see it as carbs. And it has no way to get in front of it. Yeah. And you're correcting all

Kat 59:22
the time. It's it's a it's it's just funky how they have it set up. Like she'll have locker right after not even an hour after she eats lunch on some days. And it's just, it's just lucky.

Scott Benner 59:37
So does she find herself bolusing a lot and what numbers are we asked that we can't get away from? Like, what

Kat 59:44
is not not crazy, like just a higher than I would like like if she's sitting at 150 I'm trying to get her to have it come down before she gets to lunch because I know. Lunchtime. I'm gonna give her less than she needs because she has soccer right after which she can't have so much in her system that is going to make her go low, but has to be high enough that the stuff she does have in our system will keep her stable. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:07
so the higher blood sugar running into the meal running into the activity is throwing your timing off for everything. So you're getting out of time with the insulin and your impacts. Yeah, but 150 I'll see you definitely listen to this podcast. You're like, it's it's terrible. It's 150

Kat 1:00:23
I'm anal about it too. But I mean, it's it's gotten stuck higher. But it's normally it's just if it's over my comfortability, then I'm bugging her to Bolus

Scott Benner 1:00:36
Do you see it happening as soon as she gets to school because for Arden, like you drop her off at high school and her blood sugar started to go up.

Kat 1:00:42
Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:43
yeah. Could you try bolusing for it? As she gets there?

Kat 1:00:47
It's not It's not every day, though. That's the there's no, there's no pattern to it. And she has she doesn't have periods, like are irregular periods, I would say. So you we can't ever catch those. So I don't know if it's, you know, her hormone time, because she's obviously still having the hormones. She is just so athletic with zero body fat that she's just not menstruating. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:12
You said that's not a ton. Okay. Hey, you want to do something with me for a second? I guess we don't have to dirty or anything like that. I just, I'm gonna do something that you guys might not expect. I'm gonna go to my own Facebook group and try to find help for Arden with her Dexcom problem.

Kat 1:01:32
Oh, my goodness, because it's really, it's

Scott Benner 1:01:35
a meta situation right now. Arden is switching? Oh, hold on. She's asking me a question to give me a second. are just switching her g7 and getting this message? Anyone know how to fix this?

I'm not lying about this Facebook group is pretty great. I know. Yeah. So are you in there?

Kat 1:02:17
I am. I'm a spectator. That's perfect. Most

Scott Benner 1:02:21
people are I think. I think that's the way to go. She

Kat 1:02:27
Yeah, he just grabbed the information you need. Next one.

Scott Benner 1:02:40
So I think people probably think like, oh, they're a sponsor. He's not going to say anything bad. Like, first of all, I don't think this is bad. I think there's just something happening. I don't know what to do. Because it's so new. Yeah. Yeah. But also, technology is not perfect. But anybody like I don't care what pump or glucose monitor Dexcom whatever. It's all just technology. You know, Jenny and I were talking about that the other day, how interesting it is that like, if you think of all the technology in your life, it all none of it works the way you want it to like you buy things for your living room and your kitchen and your bedroom. You're always like, Oh, my God isn't doesn't exactly do blah, blah, blah. But when it's a medical thing, people are like, it should be perfect. I mean, yeah, it's pretty great. You don't mean, perfect is, is going to be an issue. I don't know how you're gonna do that. Sorry. So we'll see if anybody gets back to me. I

Kat 1:03:28
just talked. So that's her, like, first time changing it out. I hope it doesn't sway her.

Scott Benner 1:03:32
Like her third time changing it. I'm gonna guess. Literally, I don't know. But I'm gonna guess that this is going to be some sort of a thing where she should have like, put the other one away from her father when she did it or something like that, that maybe confused between the two of them or?

Kat 1:03:52
Yeah, yeah, we're in the microwave.

Scott Benner 1:03:55
I've heard people say that, right? Because there's a Faraday cage on a microwave. So again, and if she would have started it while we were here, I'd have a firmer understanding of it right now than I do at the moment, although at least the graph she put up is very respectable. Because she took a screenshot, and it's got like her last three hours on it. And then and it says that it has and it says sensor failed. So are you switching her g7 and getting this message? Anyone know how to fix this? She already removed one. And the next one did the same thing. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll see what happens. In real time. We'll see how impressive this Facebook group is.

Kat 1:04:35
Oh, yeah, you're gonna get a response very soon. I don't

Scott Benner 1:04:40
know it's become so popular. Like sometimes I don't. People don't even realize it's me anymore. People joke with me all the time. That that I'll say something and somebody will come in and be like, I don't know who Scott is or why we why we all care so much. Like it's okay. Back when it was smaller people who I was, but it's fascinating because you know, the group, the group has two very important things. It has mass of people. So you you, you can actually get an answer. And and it's nice people are nice. And that's a big deal. Because yeah, you know, I've seen it go the other way. Yeah, I've got a response already. Yeah, but I'm trying to, we hit okay and start a new sensor with a new sensor. What does she have the new sensor on? That's coming up?

Alright, I answered. I said, the new one is on. Let me tell Arden to. I said, I'm looking into it. I'll get you an answer for now open your loop and test every hour. Does anybody want to guess if it'll test every hour? No, but I'm gonna guess no to. So? Well. We'll stay on top of that. Yeah. We'll say it's all going to be fine. Well, that's the other thing too is that I think that there are plenty of people who would hear this and be like, Oh, my God, like it's a disaster. And it's not a disaster. It's just, it's what this stuff is like you have diabetes. It's how it goes. how it goes. Try reentering the session, the sensor number. That's not an answer. Besides, I did it already paired with the new sensor code? Yes. And then this happens a few minutes later. It's like, it's like I have live chat bots to talk to know and extremely impressive. They understand what's happening. And I'm trying very hard to keep our conversation with you and I going at the same time, which I think I'm starting to fail, because now I'm texting art and talking to you and messaging with two different people on Facebook.

Kat 1:07:00
That's right. Men aren't supposed to multitask. Hey, you

Scott Benner 1:07:03
know, my wife says that all the time as I'm doing four things at once. She's like, you can't keep things in your head. And I'm like, Okay, I'm like, I don't know. Hold on a second. Is there more coming? Or feedback?

No, not yet. Okay. Why are people not living on my schedule?

Kat 1:07:27
So I don't know. It's lunchtime. Yeah. Everybody should be available.

Scott Benner 1:07:31
So my expectation for your daughter is that she's experiencing like, she just is she like a good student? She wants to get good grades, that kind of thing? Yes. Yeah. Do you have any, like interpersonal problems at school? No, no, then she's probably just that I'm aware of. Yeah, I guess she's probably just like, it's adrenaline and, you know, stress. Yeah, that kind of stuff. But she

Kat 1:07:53
does take a hard caseload.

Scott Benner 1:07:56
Okay. Yeah. So she's trying to like She probably feels the pressure that and then it impacts your blood sugar.

Kat 1:08:03
Yeah, yeah. We only put the the Omnipod five on because she's going to Europe for the summer. And I'm not going with her. And I want her to be able to be better managed while she's there. Because my aunt's that she's going with the same two that took her to the doctor when she got diagnosed. No, nothing about it.

Scott Benner 1:08:24
Oh, great.

Kat 1:08:28
Wonderful.

Scott Benner 1:08:28
So what do you how do you think that's gonna go? I

Kat 1:08:31
will get less sleep than I normally do. Because of the time change.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
You think you're gonna be managing basically from a distance? Oh, absolutely.

Kat 1:08:38
Yeah. Do you find out or it's not self sufficient and management? How long are you going to be with them? They're gonna be in Europe for like, six, seven weeks. Wow.

Scott Benner 1:08:47
Is there no way they could spend a couple hours or days with their before the trip locally? I

Kat 1:08:54
mean, they, they do. I mean, they're with us all the time. It's not that

Scott Benner 1:08:58
they're seeing it. Okay. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, did they follow her CGM. Now?

Kat 1:09:03
No, they used to when she was like, she was first diagnosed, and she would spend the night over there. I would hook them up to it. But they're there. So I'm just not trying to put too much on them. I'm just going to do it from afar. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 1:09:21
Yeah, because I was thinking like, could they follow along and maybe for a couple days you could text like she just ate this and we use this much insulin so they could kind of see how it happens.

Kat 1:09:29
Oh, no, no, that's not gonna work. It's all right. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:09:33
well good. Do you think it's gonna go well, yeah,

Kat 1:09:35
I do. I like I think the the time we had the the five on before she went to school was really good. So I'm just hoping that that returns

Scott Benner 1:09:45
Well, I'm gonna guess that on. I been on vacation, right? She should have like because you say it doesn't happen at home. So I bet she has more of a more of that kind of experience on vacation than she does at home. Unless something stressful hops on vacation, but I mean vacations. Yeah. And so on. The one thing I would ask is, Is she going to go right from school to vacation? Or will there be a little break before vacation? So have about a week? Good. You know, I'm asking that. Yeah. Because if you're being real aggressive at school, and they go right to a more like, it's gonna be low. It could be low than Yeah. Especially with the activity and the walking around. And I'm guessing flying and things like, yeah, yeah. Very cool. You have enough supplies to send whether you got that all straight? I do. Will she have glucagon? She will. Excellent. Which one do you use to evoke? Oh, the hype open? Yeah, it's the best one. Because I use Bolus because it's I do think it's the simplest Yeah, that's Well, that's exactly why I like it. Yeah. And I hear about the burning in the nose and stuff from the other thing sometimes. And I mean, I guess in in a real emergency situation, you would take some burning, and you'd be like, whatever. Absolutely. But still,

Kat 1:10:55
I think it's I think it's about the the ease for other people, because obviously other people are going to be using it. So the I think that's the target is you have to have them be able to use it. So an epi pen like function is so much more familiar to people than what it was previously or a nasal spray.

Scott Benner 1:11:17
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, we never carried them when they were the old like Lily red boxes. We didn't carry them with us anywhere. I was like, yeah, what am I gonna tell you hoping someone's gonna, especially if you're by yourself, what are you hoping someone's going to find that on you and go, Oh, it must be this thing. Yeah. Not a lot of hope.

Kat 1:11:36
It's not going to work. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:11:38
Well, alright. So otherwise you think she's, she's had, I should just ask the question. How was she? With having diabetes? Like, was there a transition period? That was tough for has it been okay, so far? Does she burn out? A

Kat 1:11:54
little bit of everything. I mean, when she was first diagnosed, she did really well, she gave her shot herself, her first shot in the hospital. And then, you know, there are just moments where I think, mentally there are some things going on, like, you know, depression and stuff like that, where it all starts to build up and then she just blames diabetes. But I think for the most part, it's just, she doesn't remember life before it. So it's just become part of who she is now. And I think it's just becoming more more regular for her.

Scott Benner 1:12:28
Okay. Yeah, that's, I mean, sounds like depression, like, bummed out or actual like, no, yeah, like, bummed out. Yeah. Like not like clinical depression. I don't know. No sense to me. Does she have any trouble with kids? Like, people never give her does she get bullied or hear crap about? Nothing like that? No. Cool. So because she's got this little great circle of friends that she Yeah, it's interesting. Well, good for you know, she really does. That's wonderful. It's a hell of a story. Honestly, cat, I'm impressed. The path your life took and where you're at right now, are you? Do you ever stop and think, Wow, I can't believe I'm here.

Kat 1:13:08
All the time. Yeah. Because

Scott Benner 1:13:10
it just seemed like, Did you always think you were on your way to like, some poor ending?

Kat 1:13:17
I've always felt had this, like, weird feeling that my life would be short. Not to say that it's still couldn't quote unquote, but yeah, I've always had this, like, need to do things, because I've just felt like my time is short.

Scott Benner 1:13:33
Really? Yeah. That sucks. Is that a? Is that a pressure that that has disappeared? Or do you still feel that a little bit?

Kat 1:13:47
I still feel it a little bit.

Scott Benner 1:13:49
What do you think? Like, do you? Is it trying to figure out how to ask this question? Where does that feeling come from though? Because it just because of circumstances and you just consciously think, you know, with drugs and alcohol and addiction and stuff? Like there's no way I'm going to make it the whole way? Yeah,

Kat 1:14:06
it's that easy. And I think I think it stems from there, but it's just this feeling of always had. Okay, I don't I don't really know how to explain it. But yeah, obviously, the abuse that I put myself through, like, at some point, is it gonna catch up to me? It has to right. No,

Scott Benner 1:14:22
it sounds like you're doing okay. Doesn't it? I mean, you're, you're in your 30s Right, so I think you're gonna be fine. You just have to help so you guys gotta keep that one girlfriend away from you.

Kat 1:14:37
She's she's actually recovering right now. She's been I think, like a year sober from heroin. Well, she's doing well. Oh, good

Scott Benner 1:14:46
for her. Well, that's, that's that's a difficult road. That's impressive. Yeah, it really is. Now, how do you know that? Are you in touch? No,

Kat 1:14:56
I don't. I do not keep in touch. Third, just because I know what happens when I do, but she she will reach out to me and she just apologized like she's probably in her. What is that phase and addiction? It's a man's not coming, Gary go. Yeah. So she's making amends. And she had sent me a message. And just explained everything to me then. And I just told her that I was proud of her and congratulations and get

Scott Benner 1:15:24
the hell away from me. Yeah, we have pretty much you don't want to push her in the wrong direction. So you just very politely get back to her. Yes, yeah. Yeah,

Kat 1:15:35
cuz it's tough. I know. It's tough. And it's a little hard for me, in my circumstance right now with my mom. Because I did it like I, I did it. And I went to rehab. Yes. But it did nothing. For me. It actually made me worse. And I just just something clicked in. I got better. And I don't understand why she can't. So my empathy for that is not there. And that's why I think I need

Scott Benner 1:16:03
Well, I would think as well, you need to work through things, because it's going to stick in your head that your mom, it took so long for your mom life to fall apart that you're going to, I wouldn't want I wouldn't want you to think oh, I'm just 20 years away from what's happening to my mom right now. Yeah.

Kat 1:16:21
And she was the only stable parent we had. Right. So it's like really rocking our mind and my brother's world right now. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:16:29
no, I would imagine. I mean, the one thing you thought you had you were like, This is my stable point. And she's Yeah. And she's in rehab now to what what drugs for your mom?

Kat 1:16:40
Just alcohol. But it's she's more mental right now. Then, the alcohol.

Scott Benner 1:16:48
Is she does she detoxing is that where some of this is?

Kat 1:16:52
No. And she she didn't know she she already detoxed and ended up in the hospital because she she got sick from detoxing. So now after she's detox, she hasn't to our knowledge re relapse. So now it's just working on the mental side that caused her to increase her her consumption.

Scott Benner 1:17:15
I see. Wow, that's something all right. Cat, is there anything we haven't talked about that we should

Kat 1:17:20
have? Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed in you. Why would I miss? You didn't ask you about my family. And if they have any autoimmune diseases, you get

Scott Benner 1:17:31
in four minutes. Cat, you were pregnant. You threw me off. Okay. Are there any other autoimmune issues in your family?

Kat 1:17:40
Well, yes, there are. No, but I did want to bring up but my daughter does have eczema. And she is lactose intolerant. She's got exercise induced bronchoconstriction. So it's like asthma, but only with exercise. But she also has a TMJ thing, which, which was explained to me as autoimmune, which caused her to have this massive jaw reconstruction surgery at the same time that her TMJ is were getting fixed. So that was interesting to me. And I the only way that I came about that was from you had somebody else on your podcast that had that exact same surgery. And it made me ask my daughter's doctor about it, which in turn sent us to her having this massive surgery.

Scott Benner 1:18:32
That's my fault. You're saying? I'm sorry. Is that a good thing? It was like a thank you kinda okay. Then you're very welcome. That was

Kat 1:18:42
That was crazy. And then just recently, she has protein urea. And that was within the past week or so.

Scott Benner 1:18:50
In her so she her kidneys, numbers coming back different. Yeah,

Kat 1:18:55
she just has protein in her urine. So they put her on Lisinopril, which is for blood pressure, which kind of confused me. But it's also something that my birth son had when he was first diagnosed. And the endocrinologist said that she does see this contains a lot where it's not ongoing, it does dissipate, and they don't really know why. But it's happening. I have

Scott Benner 1:19:20
this on the internet, although TMJ is not an autoimmune disease, its symptoms can be the result of one. That's weird. Hold on a second. I can't just say that, but it just makes making me wonder.

Kat 1:19:37
I think I think the way that he explained it to me was some something in vitro like when when the when the child is developing. For some reason, people who have autoimmune diseases, this ligament does not form correctly, it's stretch it ends up being stretchy or too, too tight or what have you like it has something to do with the development not so much an autoimmune disease. That's how it was kind of explained to me

Scott Benner 1:20:05
like seconds talking here about how it can be like, secondarily a systematic impact. How about that? Yeah.

Kat 1:20:13
And then also migraine, she also has migraines, and they're just now finding out that that's probably linked as autoimmune. How old is she? She's 15.

Scott Benner 1:20:26
She's doing okay. Yeah. It's a lot.

Kat 1:20:31
She was having some some symptoms the other day, and I hadn't yet told her about the kidneys thing, because she had finals. And I just didn't want it to be like another thing that she had to deal with. But she was having some symptoms. And I told her, you know, that it could be from this. And I explained to her and she's like, Oh, great. You know, like, I'm lactose, my pancreas isn't working properly. And now my kidneys are failing. But she, she laughed about it. And that same day, I happened to tell her about her half brother that she didn't know about, because it would have it was his birthday. And he reached out to me, and it just kind of came full circle was like she's old enough to understand. You know how it happened. And I've just always felt this guilt of like, when I'm going to tell her how they're going to feel. And how did she take that? Amazing, she cried, but she cried because she was so happy that I trusted her and telling her about my life.

Scott Benner 1:21:37
That's a big thing to tell a kid. Yeah. Hey, have you had her thyroid check? Yes. You know what your TSH is?

Kat 1:21:46
It's, it's, it's in range. And I mean, in range, like under two your definition? Yeah, it's, it's, it's below one. Oh, it's like zero point something. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:21:58
was. I was reading a little bit about migraines and autoimmune and like, obviously psoriasis type one. Hashimotos graves, rheumatoid arthritis. Like, let's see, in all cases, the root of the problem is with the immune system, but because different antibodies are formed in each disease. Yeah. It's interesting. I didn't realize that about the migrants.

Kat 1:22:22
Yeah, but it's more than just found that out. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:22:25
it's more it's, I mean, this makes it sound like it's about the core, the comorbidities of autoimmune issues, but your daughter, I mean, the thing with the Listen, the thing with the kidney testing, like that can go up and down. Like they're gonna keep after that and check it right. Like, yeah, maybe she just got tested after like some high blood sugars or like, are they really think that she's having a, like a problem that's gonna be with her? No,

Kat 1:22:51
they don't think it's gonna stick with her. They put her on the low dose, like she explained to me that the sugar, you know, was the sugar molecules were being released into her kidney and they poked holes in her kidney and kind of like the, like you how you explain it. It's like, what is it? How do you explain it?

Scott Benner 1:23:13
Sort of just like it's the sugar molecules are too big now. It's, it's it's breaking through the the tissue and creating because they think it'll heal up.

Kat 1:23:23
They do that. So the medication is supposed to re Deuce the amount of pressure in her kidneys so that it stops releasing the protein. And

Scott Benner 1:23:33
then put her blood sugars are are where they're good, right? What's your one sees?

Kat 1:23:37
Yeah, so her a one seen? We just had it done. She was 6.6. And I was expecting it to be worse only because the school thing. But but like in the summer, it's normally around in like, 5.5.

Scott Benner 1:23:50
Okay. I gotcha. Well, I mean, you don't need me to tell you, but obviously, more stability, lower numbers. You know, yeah, you're gonna have better luck with those other things. Oh, wow. Yeah. All right. Well, gee, did I let you down in any other ways cat or is that it? Well, I don't know. You'd be in my kitchen. You don't I mean.

Kat 1:24:16
The only other thing I will say is that we had some issues with her insurance. And it took me months to get it figured out. But the way that the insurance wasn't aware that the way that they structured their plans as far as the Pharmacy Benefits affected insulin pumps, and so I it took me a long time, but I did, it brought to their attention that they they had an issue. And so they restructured their whole plan to incorporate the pharmacy benefits for insulin pumps and CGM so that it doesn't affect anybody else. Okay, so that was yeah, that was really cool, although it took freakin forever to do

Scott Benner 1:24:59
look you We're out there helping other people to do what I can. That's fantastic. Could you Wow. All right, cat, you were terrific. I really appreciate you coming on and doing this. Thank you. Yeah, this is wonderful. If you hold on a minute, I can tell you a couple of things you'll need to know and ask you of course, if you're comfortable with everything that we talked about and all that stuff, so hold on for me. It sounds good.

A huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice box this is where we get our diabetes supplies from you can as well use the link or call 888721151 for us the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. I'd like to thank cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and remind you that using my offer code juice box at checkout will save you 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com That's the sheets, the towels, the clothing, anything available on the website. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#1100 After Dark: 73 Years So Far

Claudia has type 1 diabetes and is 73 years old. Today she tells me her life' story. WARNING: Sudden conversation about molestation. 

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1100 of the Juicebox Podcast.

My guest today is Claudia. She is 73 years old and was diagnosed with type one diabetes when she was 40. I want to warn everybody up front that Claudia is going to tell a long story about a long life. And there are going to be shocking I don't even know how to tell you this. Claudia is going to talk at some point about a molestation that she went through as a child. And it is not something that I knew about before we started where that was planned to be spoken about. And so it's going to be during a free flowing conversation. It's just going to come up and you're not going to be ready for it when it's said. So prepare yourself now. It's a small part of a very lovely life that Claudia has led. It is not her whole story. And in fact, just a very small piece of it. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. I

Claudia 1:43
am Claudia. I have type one diabetes. I was diagnosed when I'm 40 and 73. Now

Scott Benner 1:54
Wow. You were 40 when you got to type one. Yes.

Speaker 1 1:58
And so everyone said I was type two. Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:01
I bet you they did especially 33 years ago. Do you remember anything about the diagnosis? That's a long time ago is why I said

Unknown Speaker 2:13
I have a whole story about that.

Scott Benner 2:16
I would like to hear it please.

Speaker 1 2:18
Really? Yeah, of course. Okay, well, I was working as a licensed massage therapist and a Wellness Educator. In the first all female medical practice in Cincinnati was called Deaconess women's care. And so I was surrounded by five physicians to psychologists, me a whole bunch of medical staff nurses. I walked around with a large bottle of Perrier, I could not get enough to drink. And I bought Perrier by that case, because I could not get enough to drink. And I my normal weight is 115. And I weighed 85 pounds.

Scott Benner 3:13
Oh my gosh, how long do you think it took for you to lose that weight? Like over weeks or months? I'd

Speaker 1 3:20
say months. I think I would it was coming on. For a long time. I I think in paint. In college, I couldn't stay awake to study unless I stood up. So I think my blood sugar had been going up and down for years. And for years. I knew there's something wrong with me. And I stayed off we tend I did all kinds of things.

Scott Benner 3:52
So you're getting diabetes. So you cut out wheat.

Speaker 1 3:57
Doctors said to do no one checked my blood sugar. Not one single

Scott Benner 4:03
person. Yeah. And you think this went on for years? Yeah,

Speaker 1 4:07
I think I was in therapy because I knew I I knew my brain didn't work right. And I got angry and tired. And it was just so hard being me. But I I saw I went to therapy. Now I think well, I really needed insulin. But I was in therapy. I was doing the macrobiotic diet. I was.

Scott Benner 4:34
You were trying right? You were doing everything you could think to do and did my best. Yeah, no kidding. What was that? 1990 7am I right about that? No 93 So

Speaker 1 4:48
people could take blood sugar in their offices in the mid 80s. Isn't that true?

Scott Benner 4:55
Not sure. But I'm trying to do I didn't do the math but if You've had this for 33 years. This was 1990. Yeah, yeah. So type one, management was kind of just going the way of faster acting insulin in the late 80s. Testing, like in home testing was there. But it wasn't great. It was in the kind of the very beginning of like, I believe, smaller machines, because in the late 80s, my friend had a glucose monitor. I mean, I guess, if you want to call it that, that, I mean, I have a computer that's smaller than the glucose monitor he had, you know, back then. So I do wonder, but no blood work, if they didn't send you out for like a CBC, like that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 5:45
And the same thing was also going on, through the years, more than five years. My left kidney always ached, really. And I went from doctor to doctor, the doctor, like every six months, I'd go, I can't stand this anymore, and I go to someone else. And they'd say, well take it and biotics, so I do that that, of course, just made me sicker. And I drank water. And I took one physician said, Let's do exploratory surgery. Well, at least I knew not to do that.

Scott Benner 6:28
You're like, I'm not doing that. None of you have known anything yet. I'm definitely not lying to you cut me open. So

Speaker 1 6:34
I finally decided, really, after going to, I'd say maybe six to 10 different. I would just do it on occasion, I'd say I cannot stand this. But now I think the whole time. My kidney was suffering.

Scott Benner 6:55
Yeah, it sounds like you just had like a lotta and you had a very slow onset of type one diabetes. That's terrible. And nobody know.

Speaker 1 7:04
And I think my personality really was affected. And I, I, I was married at the time. And I think that poor man, it was like living with the

Scott Benner 7:17
crazy person. And you actually thought you were having mental illness. Right?

Speaker 1 7:21
I actually thought I was crazy. I felt crazy. I bet. So that's why on the podcast, when people are saying, This is so hard, and my child, it's so hard, and I'm saying please get a hold. All I think that all I think the therapy did for me was it did give me skills in acting more normal. Like I would say to myself, what would a normal person do going on? And I would try to do that quite a bit. Do

Scott Benner 7:58
you think that after you got your blood sugar under control that those things go away? Or did you

Speaker 1 8:03
oh my god, yeah, my whole personality got, it became much easier to be myself. Sure. And I'm always still wanting to make amends to everyone. I dealt with me during those years.

Scott Benner 8:23
Yeah, but you wasn't you really?

Speaker 1 8:26
Well, it wasn't me, but it's your look like me and acted like man, I still responsible for the people and my behavior, even though Yeah, yes, my life got easier. I thought I wasn't compulsive eater. Because you know, when you're low you'll like, and even when I'm high, I want to eat. I think I was always low or high. So I was in doing Overeaters Anonymous because I was sure it was a compulsive eater. But now I never am not

Scott Benner 9:02
something, you just that fluctuation of insulin can can really impact your hunger that for a person who doesn't have diabetes, as well,

Speaker 1 9:10
it just my whole life got easier. And I just thought, Oh, my goodness.

Scott Benner 9:19
Yeah. Well, it's something how a small change can make such a big difference. I'm sitting here so I don't normally do this. In video, I don't usually talk to people where I can see them and they can see me so I doing this for you today, which I'm happy to do. But I've lost 17 pounds. And I keep I keep looking at myself in the video thinking that doesn't look like me. But it really like I'm like, I haven't looked like that since I feel like three years ago, maybe. And it's off putting like right now while you and I are talking I'm having trouble like, anyway, just this small and what was the small change? I've been talking about a little bit on the podcast, but I started taking We go V for weight loss, which is really ozempic. But rebranded and you know, allows doctors to prescribe it for weight loss. And I can't tell you like how different it feels, just to have either have a, I guess, I guess I have now the right amount of GLP, one of my system or my body's using it more effectively, one of the other, like, kind of no different than a thyroid medication like, right, like when people need thyroid medication, they're making T three, but they don't use it correctly. So you put it in an amount that kind of forces your body to take it up. And I feel like that's happening now. And just my day to day life is different. So I can't imagine you with your blood sugar, you know, bouncing up and then wondering if you're out of your mind. That's gotta be a terrible existence. And you said a man you used to be married to did this breakup your marriage?

Unknown Speaker 10:54
I believe it did. Yeah.

Scott Benner 10:56
I'm so sorry. It was a good man. Yeah. Does he know have you been able to talk to him and tell him or? No,

Speaker 1 11:03
he we were married for 20 years and I'm pretty sure most of it i Well, I'm the blood sugar's stuff started in college. So I was married. My senior year in college. She's back so sorry, requested that we not be in contact. And I thought that's the least I can do to honor him.

Scott Benner 11:31
He didn't do anything super weird digit Claudia. Did you know No. He didn't wake up one day with you hold the pair of scissors talking about something. Okay,

Speaker 1 11:41
I control my behavior. Well, that's good. But I didn't I felt weird. I felt like I could murder and kill. But I never did.

Scott Benner 11:53
How long after your marriage broke up? Did you figure out you had type one? Well,

Speaker 1 11:58
that's I think my contribution because when my former husband finally said he fell in love with someone else, and had been in love with someone else. He told me for a year and a half. So he left and I used to lie on the couch. In our big house.

Scott Benner 12:24
If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G voc hypo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store G vo Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G Bo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information.

Speaker 1 13:37
Say please do not let me wake up. I just I was still undiagnosed then. Yeah. And so I just didn't know how I could continue. And but I kept waking up. So then I changed my prayer to please let me find a non violent way to commit suicide, which now I always chuckle when I hear that, that you can't commit suicide in a non violent way. Pretty

Scott Benner 14:15
much all the ways out are going to be violent one way or the other. I mean, maybe maybe pills but that's neither here nor there.

Speaker 1 14:22
No violence to your body. Of course. Yeah. But I within I never know the exact day I was diagnosed. I don't remember that. And I can't get that information. But within two, I'd say one or two months. I was diagnosed with type one diabetes which answered my prayer exactly, which is if I screwed up, I won't wake up. And with insulin, I always have a way to commit suicide that will be relatively easy. How

Scott Benner 15:03
long did you feel like that? Like, how long? How long did you feel like, oh, maybe I'll make a mistake. And this will be over.

Speaker 1 15:10
I was praying for a way out. But I didn't. I didn't know enough about anything like diabetes to pray for that specific thing.

Scott Benner 15:23
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 15:24
But I, my main lesson was, oh, my gosh, what I hold in my mind, I really get. I mean, now I have a way that I might not wake up. And I can leave when I want to. That's I didn't get cancer, I didn't get any of the things that under high stress, you could have gotten a diagnosis. And so Well, I'll tell you ever since then, I watch what I think you don't

Scott Benner 16:05
want to write because what if I guess what if you would have left before finding out that there was a way to honestly take care of all the problems you've been having your whole life, right? And just insulin did that for you?

Speaker 1 16:17
Insulin did that. To take care of the mood and the exhaustion and the all those consequences of high and low blood sugar. But insulin, realizing, I think that gave me the courage to start a new life. Well,

Scott Benner 16:42
yeah, maybe for the first time since you were a young girl, right? You had some stability and and you are yourself enough to think, wow, that's something. So did you. I guess, first of all, how did they start you with insulin? Was it? Were you doing regular an MPH or? No, was it No, first,

Speaker 1 17:01
they started me on Metformin. But my blood sugar only came down to 300. It was 900 Death diagnosis, gosh. And I was functioning. I mean, I was working full time and doing everything. Thriving, just feeling weird. But since I had always felt weird, I just kept going. The people around me before I was diagnosed, they said to two different people said my one friend, Mary Lynn. She said, Claudia, you are too thin. And then my other one of the nuns at work where I was a teacher said, You look like a child from Ethiopia. My ribs showed right? Why was Why did I start talking about?

Scott Benner 18:02
Well, I was wondering about what your management was like when Oh, okay. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 18:07
after they no one took a C peptide. Okay. But they just said, they concluded which I now would conclude immediately. You're a type one, but just because of my weight as well, maybe? I could be wrong about that.

Scott Benner 18:30
Yeah. But people make assumptions. So if you were super skinny, and definitely had diabetes, but they thought type two, they might say okay, well, you know, what's that old thinking would have been if they're not heavy than they don't have type two. So it must maybe it just got them thinking in the other direction. I mean, you know, also

Unknown Speaker 18:48
my age was 40. So that I think people

Scott Benner 18:54
weren't looking for type ones to be diagnosed at that age, either. You weren't. And

Speaker 1 18:58
these were my friends, these, the doctors in that practice, were my friends. They were all watching me walk around. The big joke was, like, different friends went on a road trip with me to Atlanta. We went to Bob Evans for breakfast, and I ordered a number one and number three. And then number four. They said Claude, you cannot eat that much. And I said, I'm holding back. Yeah, I could not get enough food and I could not get enough water. But I weighed 85 pounds. So even my one friend Linda, who was my doctor, she took me out to breakfast ones and she saw him much I ate she said, Claude, you're eating so much. But no one put it together.

Scott Benner 19:52
That's something. No. Well, eventually they did right. So do you start with me you start with Jack shins, do you go to an insulin pump at some point,

Speaker 1 20:03
now was a long time till I went to a pump. And I forget how many years I always did check my blood sugar at least 10 times a day. Somehow I knew I could not do it. Once I started on insulin without checking a lot I am and my doctor would only give me four strips a day. And my insurance would only pay for that much. Yeah. So I was like dealing in blood sugar strips in the back alleys. I mean, I somehow I bought enough strips to do it 10 times day.

Scott Benner 20:50
Did you really you bought them on the kind of on the black market? Bottom

Speaker 1 20:53
here and there. And I just

Scott Benner 20:57
You Don't Know What gave you that feeling? That idea? Like I need to have more data than what I have. Was it fear? I mean, I'd be if I always tried to put myself in that position. I don't know how you'd give yourself insulin without knowing what was happening. It must have been frightening.

Speaker 1 21:12
I might not have known enough to be free.

Unknown Speaker 21:16
That sounds like Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:19
At the the office where I worked medical office, when I started on insulin, they gave me a meter from the office. So I could check. Because my friend Linda, the doctor said, Claude, you have to go in the hospital. And I said, I'm not going in the hospital, the food alone, no kill you. I wouldn't go in. I said, if I'm unconscious, you can take me. But I'm up walking around doing five massages a day, doing everything I do. I'm not going in the hospital. She said, well, then find yourself another doctor. We just got into it. But in the end, she said, Call me every morning with your blood sugar. And I'll tell you how much insulin to take. Well, now I know. That was silly. I mean, I'm amazed I lived with my parents. I was Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:22
I mean, I'm looking at you now. I'm I'm very, like pleased with how healthy you appear. So do you have any side of like, side effects or anything long term complications?

Speaker 1 22:32
My feet hurt sometimes. Okay, but I don't know if that's diabetes. But that just started in the last year.

Scott Benner 22:41
My feet have been hurting for a while. But that's for other reasons. I think they're actually getting better as I lose weight, which I don't think would be surprising to anybody. My knee feels better to me. Yeah, but Okay, so do you ever remarry?

Unknown Speaker 23:00
No,

Scott Benner 23:01
did you want to?

Speaker 1 23:02
Well, I started out with the belief of now no one will ever love me with this big problem of diabetes. And my friend Linda said, Oh, you're more interesting with diabetes. Yes, yes. someone to love me. And actually, Linda love me and I'm a straight woman. But I fell in love with Linda and Linda fell in love with me. So I think that's maybe why wasn't real afraid. I have a doctor. Now. The doctor thought she was very good with diabetes. That was her reputation. I and I trusted her. I said, Oh, great. So I wasn't afraid because I as Linda,

Scott Benner 23:53
you and Linda were

Speaker 1 23:54
a couple. Yes, we turned into a couple was amazing. Oh, that's

Scott Benner 23:59
how long? How long? How old were you when that happened? And how long did you

Speaker 1 24:03
already I was 40. And it took a long time because I've only love men since and before. But I think if my mind had been you know how a orphaned baby duck will last long or what's that word glam on to the first thing they see when they love them. I think I had been feeling crummy for so long. That I didn't have a capacity to love. So now I'm on insulin. I start feeling better. There is Linda taken care me. Oh, love her.

Scott Benner 24:43
How long were you together? We

Speaker 1 24:46
were together for two years. And the the poignant part is Linda was an MD and she saw what I was doing with my body work and the different kinds of minds allergies I was using. And she started referring everyone to me. She said, Claude, I don't think I'm helping people. So she knew there was a whole part of the practice of medicine that she didn't know. And she thought I knew it. And, and I kind of did know, things she didn't know. So the two of us together, we, we were pretty good team. Yeah. And so we decided to do a study and get it published. And that's how I was diagnosed. I was already type one, but didn't know it and functioning pretty well. And we decided to do this study about depression. So the way in my modality I took care of depression is a technique called cranial sacral therapy. Because we're taught that depression is actually compression, of the bones of the skull. And if it doesn't have an external cause, if the depression isn't, by something obvious, like somebody died or something, then sometimes it is just compression of the bones of the skull. And this very gentle body work can free that. So Linda was very depressed. So she said, I want this cranial sacral therapy. And she said, If someone comes to me, and they're depressed, I take their blood sugar, and I take their thyroid. So she said, I'll take your blood sugar and thyroid, you help me with cranial sacral therapy. And that'll be the beginning of our study, is how to help depression with these two modalities. So as soon as I took the blood test, she called me at 11 o'clock that night, said, Claude, how are you doing? And I said, I'm fine. She said, Well, please come in tomorrow, even though it was my day off, because we ought to check this number. Again. This, she said, This can't be you. They just call me from the lab and said, contact this person, whoever she is, because she's probably in a coma. said, This can't be you. We must have done this wrong, but it was me. And it was hired the next day. And that's when she said, You've got to go in the hospital. And I said, Never. And so I I did whatever I did without going in the hospital.

Scott Benner 27:50
No kidding. Yeah. And so but she's prescribing, like your medication for you to as your doctor like insulin, things like that, that you need you're getting from your doctor, and you just all

Speaker 1 28:02
I got was insulin. Okay. But anyway, I got distracted because Linda had suffered from depression, her whole life. And she ended up committing suicide. Oh, I'm so sorry. Here's Yeah, it was a huge, huge sometimes. I mean, it's unspeakable really what suicide does but was also a huge gift. Because boy did I wake up about when somebody says they're suicidal. You better believe them? Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:40
So sorry. That's my still hurt even all these years later.

Speaker 1 28:48
Just gives me compassion for people. Suicide, she was suffering so much, but such a good doctor. But when people found out she committed suicide, everyone kind of was mad at her. You know, like, God. How could she do that? So many people need her and that kind of lack of awareness of if someone is even thinking about suicide, they're really suffering. Yeah. So it's just woke me up. And before one of the when we were working together and helping people and our little health center. I said, Well, Linda, tell me what vitamins to take. I mean, you're the perfect person for me and I have right now because I need help getting well. And here what's her gift? Claude, I am not trained to get you well. I am trained to keep you from dying. I mean, you'll have to get well some other way. And so that became my job, how to get well and stop relying on physicians to do for me what they're not trained

Scott Benner 30:15
to do. Yeah. That's very smart. It was

Speaker 1 30:19
her great gift to me. Now, I think some physicians now are broadening their training in their interests to help people get well. But back in that lintas day, she knew she wasn't trying to get people well. And that's why she was so depressed.

Scott Benner 30:43
Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's a cloudy, it's super. It's obvious, right? You, you have a problem. You go to a doctor, you say I'm having a problem. I'd like to not be having this problem anymore. You never go to that doctor and say, Hi, you're a cardiologist, for example, I don't ever want to have a heart attack. So how would I do that? And if you ask the cardiologist that they'd be like, you have to go talk to a nutritionist. They wouldn't they wouldn't get involved in that. It's it's really just, she's right. It's the way it's set up. And you had a gift of my life. Yeah, you have to take care of yourself. You really do. Well,

Speaker 1 31:19
you don't have enough information to do that. So we turn to that whole level of medicine and health, which are my herbal is my licensed massage therapist, my cranial sacral people, my Feldenkrais people, they're the ones who keep me well. That's

Scott Benner 31:40
something. So how do you do that for your diabetes? Now, all these years later? I mean, well, let me ask you this first, actually, what do you call? Success? Like, what are you shooting for blood sugar's variability? What are your goals?

Speaker 1 31:56
I'm shooting for and this is only because of this podcast. Oh, okay. Even though enough to shoot for this, I'm shooting for an A one C in the mid fives. 95% time and range.

Scott Benner 32:10
Are you doing that? Oh, no.

Speaker 1 32:13
I, I when I first started listening to you and heard people are going, you know, much closer to normal a onesies. I, I went, Oh, cuz I had been taught, I'm doing great at a seven. And I was like, proud of myself. I'm at a seven all these years 30 however many years that was. Now I'm here and go lower. So I go to my doctor. And I'm going to name names here. But this I was in Colorado at the time. And I was going to the Barbara Davis Clinic, which in Denver. It's a it's a well known teaching hospital or clinic for diabetes. Of course, I go into my doctor and I said, look, look, I want to be 95% time and ranging. And they went see him in the mid fives and he said that's impossible. How long ago was this? 2022

Scott Benner 33:16
Huh. That's interesting. Okay. Barbara

Unknown Speaker 33:19
Davis Clinic.

Scott Benner 33:21
Yeah, I'm not I'm not following.

Speaker 1 33:21
Oh, my gosh. So I know by then, you know, I'm not there to convince him of anything. So he just gave me mine next, whatever I was there for and but so now I'm starting to try to do it myself.

Scott Benner 33:40
For you. How are you trying to? How are you trying to accomplish that?

Speaker 1 33:43
Oh, you know, I listened to the podcast and I'm more bold with insulin and I giving myself and not letting it go so high. I do have a CGM Anna, Dex calm. Yeah, but I didn't get very good training on those. I mean, I'm just now starting to really work on my settings. And still when I eat. Oh, I'm learning the Pre-Bolus. That's thought that's my challenge. Remembering before you eat. Oh, I remember but I don't want to do it.

Scott Benner 34:24
That's very honest. Claudia. How long? How long have you been listening to me?

Speaker 1 34:30
I started listening to you when I was in Colorado. So that means a year and a half

Scott Benner 34:35
about and what was your agency a year and a half ago? It was always

Speaker 1 34:40

777. Now on my own, I've gotten it down to 6.20. That's amazing. I had many days, many days in the 85% range, but I even got one and the 98 Was

Scott Benner 34:59
it 85 is pretty good first of all, but you know, that's Oh, 6.2 is astonishing. Good for you. Seriously,

Speaker 1 35:08
but now I know I can get the five so, but I still it's luck. I don't really have this. I don't really can't predict. Now my settings. I know my basil is good because if I don't eat anything, I'm pretty steady. Yeah, it is I eat. I eat the same thing to let God mastered. But something's going on that I don't get. So my one of my favorite things is half an avocado on a piece of zekiel Toast. Okay, that's really solid breakfast oh, with, I make my own alfalfa spouts. So I pile loads on there. And I It told me for hours. But I ate that for like a couple of weeks because it's really working. It's 2.5 units. I wait, I eat it. And I'm Smith itself. Well, about a week ago, I stopped working. And I peeked, I spiked. Like for hours, I couldn't get down. And I thought what? So now I have a new trick. And I think I heard you say this. I raised my basil for a couple of hours. So I have a new profiles called high. And it gives me a three unit per hour. Basil. Wow. Which is a whole lot. Now I have to remember to turn that off in a half hour, or else I'm dealing with big lows later.

Scott Benner 36:54
What pump Do you have? T slim? are using control IQ or no? Yes, yeah. Oh, so you're doing can you do with Temp Basal on it temporary, so it shuts off on its own?

Speaker 1 37:06
Well, I think that would be the answer. But I don't know that yet. And I'm seeing a new Endo. I'm back in Ohio now, which is where I'm from. I'm seeing a new Endo. Tomorrow. I was going to ask her. You know, it just depends. When I go in some endos I started calling around in Ohio for a new endo because it was going to be here and I said can you help me with my goal of a one C of 5.5 time and range in the 90s? They all said to one no. That's not you'll get too many lows with that's not the way I can't find that. No, yeah, you might not I finally decided I'll just take the endo that my insurance tells me to go to. And I'm gonna have to keep doing this myself. Now if I have a lot of extra money. I would hire Jenny.

Scott Benner 38:12
Well, author,

Speaker 1 38:14
I have the amount of money I have. Yeah. And so

Scott Benner 38:22
but I mean, but clearly a 6.2 is fantastic. Like, I mean, it's really terrific. But you should be celebrating that every day. I'm not saying if you if you don't want better if you can't work on it, but you shouldn't think of this as not a success. This is very successful to me.

Speaker 1 38:42
Yeah, and I am a new regular nd and she took a seat peptidome me the other day when I told her my one seat. She didn't believe on type what's funny. She's not but she's a lovely woman, but she's not real familiar with diabetes body be

Scott Benner 39:01
carrot don't turn her. Okay. I don't you're gonna get this one too. As a as a girlfriend. Oh,

Speaker 1 39:10
I don't I just I'm not even looking for a partner right now. Because I'm, I'm having this wonderful time on my life. Well, I've had a wonderful time since I was 60. I thought honey, you are 60 Maybe you better do what you really, really want to do. I had always kind of done what I really wanted to do, but undone was I wanted to be with horses. And for some reason I had a story. There's horses out west. i There's tons of great horses and horse trainers here in Ohio. But I had a story. I had to go out west.

Scott Benner 39:53
So how long did you move out there?

Speaker 1 39:56
Well, when I 60 I just apply went for a job on a ranch at 60 with no experience who would hire me? They did.

Scott Benner 40:07
And how long were you there? Well,

Speaker 1 40:09
I would it was seasonal. Most of my jobs had been seasonal. So I just, I don't know, I wouldn't do that. Now. I don't have the energy now. But I had the idea. I just kept saying, Okay, this season's over. Where are you gonna go now? So I would find the next place. So I went, Cody, Wyoming, Nebraska, Idaho, and Colorado, and stayed and stayed and stayed till the next thing opened up. Wow.

Scott Benner 40:44
You just made me cry a little? Do you know that?

Speaker 1 40:47
The joy of my life? Yeah,

Scott Benner 40:51
that's really lovely. Good for you.

Speaker 1 40:53
I gotta tell you why it's connected with diabetes, please. And also after that time, somehow, diabetes, just, I did have a few incidents where I went low. I never needed help with lows. Until I was in my 60s. And then I did pass out. And my poor people I was living with had to call 911. And that was so stressful for them. Yeah. But anyway, I first I think got this horse going out west idea. Because when I was 10, my mom sent me out to live with my uncle, who is a forest ranger in Elko, Nevada in the Humboldt National Forest. And I was by myself. By myself, he's out doing forest ranger stuff and I'd get up and I have three Hershey bars for breakfast, then my horse tends Bob would always be saddled out there and I would climb up on him and Bri around till lunch, and I'd come in and I made this was my typical lunch. I made raw cake batter and ate the whole bowl. Amazed I didn't have diabetes, even sooner, but my mother fed us really good food. Okay, so back in Ohio, I was eating normally. But out there, man, nobody cared. I just say what I wanted. But I love being out there because I didn't really get along with my mother. I have a story. She didn't like me. And that may have been true. But so I was thrilled to be with my uncle who was nice and gave me a horse and didn't make me do any work. And I love being out there. And I think then, but the sad part was at night. There was incest. Wait, but wait, with my uncle. But even with that weird, I didn't know when interest was and I didn't know what was going on. But I liked my uncle. And he was nice to me. So every night I felt weird, but it was a trade off because he got me cowboy boots. And he let me drive this truck all around. And how, how old were you then? I was 10. And then the next year? I was 11. Wait,

Scott Benner 43:28
I'm so sorry. Claudia. Let me make sure I understand correctly. He was touching you inappropriately when you were 10. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 43:36
But I didn't know. I didn't know to say I knew I didn't like that. But he was so nice, in all the other ways. And he wasn't mean like my mother. So I even wrote my mother a letter and said, I want to live with George. I don't want to come home. I want to go to the mountain city school and but Georgia never asked me to live. I wanted that. That's how much I didn't like living with my mom. How long

Scott Benner 44:07
did that go on? For

Unknown Speaker 44:08
two summers?

Scott Benner 44:10
Wow, you took me by surprise. I have to be honest. That's

Speaker 1 44:14
why I have that's why this is after dark. Yeah. Also, I mean, it may even be in midnight, it may be more than after.

Scott Benner 44:24
Honestly, Claudia, I've been thinking recently of starting up a string of episodes that you have to pay to listen to. And that would be that would be very, like just beyond what even after dark is and I don't know you might have just qualified just the first one. I swear to you like you just like I swear to God, I thought you were mispronouncing insects. I thought you were saying the only thing I didn't like weather or insects at night and I thought I misunderstood her. So I now we're talking I need to ask you, was he raping you or touching You know,

Speaker 1 45:02
I'd say what's a call when you touch inappropriately and this is hard for me to say but he is. He would ejaculated on me at night. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. And, but I didn't know what ejaculation was. So I thought I wet like I was always getting embarrassed. I'd say, oh my god, I wet my pants. I've never done that in years, and I would go to the bathroom change my wear. How are you? I was all mixed

Scott Benner 45:35
up. Listen, it's 63 years later and all but how do you have such a good? Oh, I don't understand how much

Speaker 1 45:44
therapy Yeah, I have done more therapy out the WHA hoo. And I think it really helped me but I gotta tell you this about my uncle. Because you usually ask people, does anyone in your family have type one? You didn't ask me

Scott Benner 46:01
that? Well, no, I don't know what to ask you about your family now. But go ahead, does anybody in your family

Speaker 1 46:07
was the only type one in my family, my uncle. But now through all the therapy, see, I waited to do my horse and going out west thing. And sagebrush, I love the smell of sagebrush, I think it took me that long to kind of just deal with the craziness of incest, which really makes people crazy. And remember the benefits of the gifts of that time in my life, the gifts of that time in my life were horses, sagebrush being out west. And so it made sense to me that all of a sudden at age 60, because I'm done, I in therapy, or incest doesn't wake me up at night, or I am just complete with that. And now I get to do the fun stuff I learned being at West, so I got to go. But the big trauma and this is still going on. And with me. The big trauma wasn't my uncle. It was my family. Because my uncle was the favorite uncle of our whole family. We all we have great uncles. I mean, I really, they'll never listen to this. So I'm not gonna hurt anyone's feelings. But all of our uncles are good guys. But it was the favorite. Because he was out west. And yeah, to horses. I mean, the whole story. So when I got back from being out west, and finally kind of woke up to what George was doing was not healthy. Yeah. And I started to process all that. I didn't tell anything to my family. But my family, we always tell songs and stories about George. And once I had a friend there with me, my friends all knew my incest story, but my family did not. And they said, Claudia, why is your family singing songs in front of you about the man who molested you? And I said, Well, they didn't know. So then my therapist said, well, and my friend said, Claudia, you should see yourself, you kind of shrink away that nothing. So I said, I am going to tell. So and I thought, I'm the oldest of 10, and a mom and a dad. So I thought my family would say, Oh, we're so sorry. Of course, we won't talk about that when you're there. Right? They all got mad at me said it was lying. My mother especially because it was her brother. It kept going on and on. Like I'd say just don't talk about them when I'm there. But they couldn't. For some reason, there was enough lack of respect or lack of trust in me or and so that's when I did leave my family. How old were you? When I was 60 is when it was all like, See, I don't know these years so well. But somehow it was perfect for me to go out west because I had to get away from this group of people who acted like so

Scott Benner 49:51
you're you're out west around 10 years old.

Speaker 1 49:54
That first outlet yeah till 12 But

Scott Benner 49:58
then when you ask your family not to speak about him any longer. How old? Just yeah, it was in my 50s. Really? You were an adult at that point? Oh, yeah. And

Speaker 1 50:09
my family but led by my mother. Just My poor mom. She could not find a way to remember. When I'm around. She I don't want to hear her stories about. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:26
So help me for a minute, though. So you're for 40 years, you have this secret from your family, but you do share it with your friends. And you've talked about it in therapy. Is that right? Yeah,

Speaker 1 50:37
I was taking care of myself about that. I did. Oh, my family would be so have such a hard time with that. Yeah. But now what I really think is, it goes back to my relationship with my mother. And I think most moms would remember. Their kid was molested. And don't bring that up. She could not how old? Was she at that point? Oh, man. Um, I don't know. I mean, she's a grown up lady. Like, it's not that she has dementia, right?

Scott Benner 51:15
I mean, I'm saying if you're 50 at that point, is she 70?

Speaker 1 51:21
Right now she is 96.

Scott Benner 51:24
Okay, so she's 83. She's 23 years older than you see, she was your age when you were 50. She was 73 when you were 50. So, and she didn't want to hear about it. Was her brother still alive at that point?

Unknown Speaker 51:41
Yes.

Scott Benner 51:42
Is he now?

Unknown Speaker 51:43
Yeah, he died.

Scott Benner 51:46
Can I ask you? Did it make you feel any certain way when he passed away?

Speaker 1 51:50
No, I didn't know. I just feel kind of grateful that I got to be with horses and out west. And my uncle. He clearly had a sick piece. Yeah, yeah. Most of my experience with him was he was so much nicer to me than my mother, that I

Scott Benner 52:16
exist. So your experience at home was so terrible, that being being molested by a guy who was otherwise kind to you, was preferable to you. But trade off? Oh, my gosh. All right. Well, Claudia, I add that to the list of things I didn't think anyone would ever say to me,

Speaker 1 52:34
I wouldn't say it was a good trade off. But right now, in this moment, I don't have a screen G feeling or a stomach ache or anything when I think of it. And I also don't have that with my mother anymore. Because guess what? Now my mother does have dementia. And when I I go to see her on occasion, I'm not taking the responsibility that my siblings believe I should be taking. Yeah, I don't have a deep connection.

Scott Benner 53:16
Yeah, I can't imagine why you wouldn't. But

Speaker 1 53:21
my siblings do not understand that or hear it? Or they they're just they have their own beliefs. Yeah.

Scott Benner 53:32
Do you think your uncle molested anyone else in your family?

Speaker 1 53:35
I asked. Because the second year I went, my little sister went with me. And I asked her directly. Did anything happen to you? And she said, No. But I was glad she went with me. Because when I first told about George, in my effort to say, Hey, don't talk about this when I'm there. And people didn't believe me. But my sister who was there by then have enough memories of things. She spoke up for me and said to my mother, it really did happen. So my mother believed my sister even though my mother never believed me. But I think that just said, When I stepped back, it's I said, if a mother could treat her daughter like that, the break in the bond happened much earlier. We just hadn't built a bond but the miracle is now when I go see my mother, she forgot she doesn't like me. Her tone of voice is loving, just like she used to speak to the other children and I I couldn't hear it was different.

Scott Benner 54:58
Yeah. So you Are your

Speaker 1 55:01
voices really kind and loving? I'm like, Oh, brother, I had to wait a long time to get apartment loves me. But here she is.

Scott Benner 55:13
I mean, it really one of the benefits of a long life, right is that you're able to have this much distance and clarity about something that I mean, you just describe something I think would mess most people up pretty, pretty badly. And I mean, it's upsetting to listen to, I don't know how it would feel to have it happen. So. But you're you feel like you're on the other side of so many things like your relationship with your mom.

Speaker 1 55:39
I'll tell you, my mother, my story, my belief, and because you never really know, maybe she did love me, but I looked like someone she didn't love or I never know. Yeah, I would not say but who knows what happened to my mother? Yeah. Well, I

Scott Benner 56:02
mean, something bad happened to your to her brother. So I would imagine some she's had an impact just the way he did. I mean, and honestly, if you're 70 Let's think about this. If you're 73 Now,

Speaker 1 56:16
what year were you born? 4949.

Scott Benner 56:20
Which makes your mom born like around the around the depression. Maybe?

Unknown Speaker 56:27
I you

Scott Benner 56:29
do the math? Well, you just said she's How old 8696 96? Jesus? Hold on a second. These are bigger numbers. I'm going to do some guesses. I got three. And then I take to your mom's 23 year old 23 years younger than you you were born in 49. Six, if she was born in 26, just after the depression, so I bet you she didn't grow up well at all. And George either or and how many kids? Do you know how many aunts and uncles High Five kids broke ass people? I bet you she went through some stuff, too. I'm not excusing anything. But I bet you they didn't grow up. Well. Did you ever have children?

Speaker 1 57:09
No. You know what? The oldest? 10 I never wanted children. I was so clear.

Scott Benner 57:16
You're the oldest of 10. Yes. Holy hell. We

Speaker 1 57:22
were tapped in. So I'm not a practicing Catholic now. But yeah,

Scott Benner 57:26
I mean, you've you've said enough that would get me away from religion too, but tend to you. Oh, oh, hold on. Do you think your mom didn't want kids? Do you think she was pissed at you for being there?

Unknown Speaker 57:36
She wanted kids she was a

Scott Benner 57:38
boy. Does she want a boy you think first?

Speaker 1 57:42
Well, I'll tell you Scott. I've taught I've trained myself to stop spending my time trying to figure out about my mother here. Because I I was really obsessed with. My mother doesn't love me, my mother. That was my dominant stress in my life. Yeah, it was much bigger than diabetes. It was much bigger than divorce. It's been the challenge of my life. But now I just am really coming to experience. My mother's beliefs and stories are not my business. Okay. Yeah. In my business, to be in this moment. And have a good life

Scott Benner 58:34
quality you are from another generation. And I am very impressed by how you handled everything in your life. We in an hour, in an hour. I started off thinking, I'm going to interview this nice older woman who likes to ride horses. That's what I thought I was going to do. Right? And then we get on you been married, divorced, had diabetes undiagnosed for so long. You thought you had mental illness. You were molested as a child. Your mother didn't love you. You I fell in love with a woman dated her for two years she took her own life. Your life essence is so jam packed with amazing stories and pain and suffering and love and forgiveness and redemption. It's just it's amazing. You're like a Hallmark movie. Plus some. Do you know that about yourself? Do you know that? Well,

Speaker 1 59:30
all I know is now and starting at age 60 When I left my mother and my family I am happy almost all the time. Please content

Scott Benner 59:45
good for you. But that's amazing. I'm so glad for you. You know like just what a wonderful I mean what uh, what the your story is built of terrible pieces, but the overall story is, is lovely. Yeah, Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:00:00
in fact, right now I get to build this wonderful little cabin and live in one of the most beautiful parts of the woods. In Ohio of all the places I've been. Ohio as the most beautiful woods.

Scott Benner 1:00:18
You're building it can't wait. You're building a cabin in the woods. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:00:22
well, my friends are, are really building it, but I get to live in.

Scott Benner 1:00:26
Wow, Cody. Are you a hippie? You think of yourself as a hippie?

Speaker 1 1:00:31
You don't do actually kind of conservative you.

Scott Benner 1:00:36
That's amazing. Okay, it's amazing. You're terrific.

Speaker 1 1:00:42
I didn't go to Woodstock or you smoke weed. Did you know about Woodstock?

Scott Benner 1:00:50
Oh my god Woodstock. I know everything about what's probably too young. Oh, no Hendrix. Was there fish? Who else was there? Um, doesn't appeal

Speaker 1 1:00:57
to me at all. You don't like that? Okay, I would not think

Scott Benner 1:01:02
so. Wait a minute. So you don't you've never smoked weed.

Speaker 1 1:01:06
Oh, I only smoked weed for one year of my life. And that was I don't know why my husband, my former husband didn't want to have sex with me. But he didn't. And, and I loved having sex. And so I how I survived those 20 years was I had affairs and I'm not proud of that. And it was hurtful. And but what I like about myself is I had integrity. I said, I'm going to have an affair. And I say to myself now why didn't you just get divorced? But the I have enough Catholic left in me that we don't get divorced. And my former husband had that same part. Right?

Scott Benner 1:01:58
Where did the weed come in? Now? Hold on. Oh, well, anyway,

Speaker 1 1:02:01
yeah, I smoked weed for with a good friend of ours. God, I still do have a shame that I did this. But that I think took enough down of my barriers that I had an affair with. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:02:19
hey, this is an interesting question for your because of your generation. Are you more ashamed of milking weed or cheating?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:27
Oh, I'm more ashamed. There's

Scott Benner 1:02:29
cheating cheating, because it hurts somebody's shame about smoking. Weed. You didn't have any. Okay. Wow. I just want to say Claudia's getting a drink right now. And I want to put out there to anybody listening. When you come on the podcast. This is the level of honesty I'm looking for right here. This is your Can I curse? Claudia, you're amazing. I love this. I swear to God, this is the greatest, like, from my perspective, like you understand, like, I got on this morning. And I was like, Oh, 73 year old lady with diabetes. I don't know what we're gonna talk about. I didn't think we're going to talk about any of this. This is really, this. You being on the show, is what makes this show so great. So thank you so much. I mean, it's amazing. Like, like if I said to you right now, tell me a crazy story that hasn't come up yet. Just one pop into your mind. Something you've done that you think people would be like, Wow, that's astonishing.

Speaker 1 1:03:25
I know the most something I'm the most proud at. I did go ahead. And this was before I was diagnosed, but I'm sure I was already suffering. This is Claudia trying to reparent young Claudia. And I got interested in Montessori education. So I said, I need to get my Master's in Montessori. I like decided that in like one minute. I don't know how but it just was true. So I lessonly got a full scholarship at Xavier University, which is a really good Montessori training. And I was one of the staff who founded the first public Montessori school in the United States. Oh my gosh. And now here in Cincinnati, you could go to public Montessori through high school. And the big get and that's I was at the foundation of that wonderful gift to this community. And now there's public Montessori schools all over the place. Yeah. But the huge gift that came from that is my best friends. And I'm going to name names Sandy. Nancy. A Suzanne. Well, Jerry, we don't know her for Montessori, but her daughter became a Montessori teacher. Those are my family. And when my family could not understand me, and respect me, those women were my family. And the miracle is they still are. And I have that. I'm sure though I'll listen to this. And they know what we have. It's, it's the, I think some people might feel like this about their mothers, like, Who do I go to? When I really need help. And when, when Linda died, my mother said, I call my mother and I was still hoping, farmer, my mother to be like, loving to me. And I said, committed. I mean, I was like, frantic I couldn't lend a committed suicide was what I was trying to get out. And my mother said, Well, I hope you're finished with this lesbian thing now.

Scott Benner 1:06:12
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 1:06:16
I call my friends. This my core group of friends, Sandy, Nancy. I said, Come over here. I can't stay. Oh, I can't stay alive through this. And they come over. And Sandy grabbed my shoulders and said, Claudia, when you need mothering, stop calling your mother. It's like, I couldn't get that I would. And that's my friend, Sandy. And she's my friend. And more whatever you call that when someone is a sister. Yeah. Lucky that now. Some of my sisters are becoming my real sisters.

Scott Benner 1:07:03
Oh, that's nice. Your family's kind of getting closer as you get older. I love it. Yeah, that's excellent. But your life, your life is a triumph. It really is like I can't I keep coming back to that word in my mind, like you just you triumphantly conquer things that I think would just stop other people. You keep going, you know? Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:07:27
I don't want to act like they didn't stop being for a long time,

Scott Benner 1:07:31
though. You were clear about it. But I mean, you're still here. And you're doing it. And you have a crystal clear attitude. And it's, it's wonderful. I mean, it's it's uplifting and hopeful.

Speaker 1 1:07:41
Yeah, I mean, now, I think, because you know, I need a kept that insulin. I feel like even if you could get well from type one, there was part of me, that said, but what if I ever need to check out? Like, what if I have to live under a bridge or I lose my feet? Or what if I can't stay? And so I thought, well, that means you can't ever get well from type one if you've got to have the story that you're getting need insulin. But now I feel like do I trust the process of life enough to trust the process of my death? Whenever that comes? Do I trust that all my needs because my my main story in my life is being amazed that all my needs are met, because I'd be out west fall of a horse broke my arm. I mean, it specially my out west adventures. I thought my needs keep being met in these odd ways by people I didn't really know. And, and so I started to believe, oh, all my needs are met. But my life is a little odd and that some people kind of know how their needs are met by their families or their husband. But I haven't done that

Scott Benner 1:09:19
people. So people have been I mean hard on you, but other people have been very kind to

Speaker 1 1:09:24
you. Oh my god, people more people have been kind extraordinarily out of their way. stunningly kind to me. And then I have a few family members who because of their own dysfunction. Want to keep talking about a child abuser in front of me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:50
I think you should expect the kindness then. It sounds to me like I

Speaker 1 1:09:54
do. Yeah, not around. There are a few family members. I will not interact with

Scott Benner 1:10:00
Yeah, I mean, that's fair. Nine, nine brothers and sisters, it's gotta be a couple clunkers in there, right.

Speaker 1 1:10:08
I actually love them too, but you don't get it back from them treated respectfully. And so I've, I've said kind of generally, I'd be loved to meet with you talk about these disagreements we have. But there must be a skillful third person there. Yeah, like a therapist, because if I have the skill to resolve things with you, I would have done it right. We wouldn't be in this spot. That's very, I don't have the skill that's very mature of you.

Scott Benner 1:10:43
Did any of them take you up on it? Yes, the miracle.

Speaker 1 1:10:45
This is the miracle of my sister Gina. And she's gonna listen to this. So she'll love that I'm honoring her. But I did. I backed off from everybody. But my sister Gina and I, we did have a pretty, I thought we had a pretty good relationship. But I also have compassion for her predicament. She's a middle child. And the middle child, their goal is you bring peace to this family. So it was very hard for my sister to take sides. And I really actually needed someone to say, Mom, stop being mean to my sister, you know, I need that. But I also now I have compassion for her her innate role as a middle child. But I was in Colorado doing my horse thing. And my sister was in California. And my sister offered to drive in did drive from California to Colorado to meet me at the equine. I was starting to study equine therapy at that time. It's a wonderful way to do therapy, you include horses, instead of office furniture.

Scott Benner 1:12:11
You are not the first person to bring up equine therapy on the podcast, which

Speaker 1 1:12:16
I'm just very excited. Yeah. combined my awareness of emotions with horses, they are much more aware than we are.

Scott Benner 1:12:27
Yeah, no, it's amazing. I heard somebody explained how they take their daughter to it, I think, um, you know, you care for the horse. And then the, I guess the idea is that the horse kind of can feel how you feel. And then you can sort of you can, you can, like work on yourself by how the energy you're getting back from the horse. Is that right? Oh,

Speaker 1 1:12:46
horses do things they cannot be trained to do in response to people. Wow. That's really, you don't know? What's going to come up. And I can tell you a whole nother podcast, of course equine therapy stories. But my sister just out of her wanting to reconnect with me, she drove and her boyfriend came to, to, he supported her. Yeah. From California, to Colorado, have the session with me paying for the session, and then started back

Scott Benner 1:13:29
to California. Very nice. That's very nice.

Speaker 1 1:13:33
So we still have some unresolved stuff. But I just say, Gina, it doesn't matter what you do from here on. Yeah, just let it go. You have money in the bank with me? Because of what you did?

Scott Benner 1:13:48
Yeah. You can just let it go. Let everything go and just move forward. Right? Well, we

Speaker 1 1:13:53
don't let it go. But we both I trust that she is not. I trust that she's on my side. Yeah. And if anything comes up, it's just one of our lack of skill. And we both have skills to talk about things. So I trust I'll do whatever it takes to reconnect with Gina because she did that for me. That's beautiful. Majan what that dedication? Yeah. No,

Scott Benner 1:14:25
I can't say enough about that. Honestly. That's wonderful.

Speaker 1 1:14:29
That's Gina. Yeah. Well, Claudia, we're over time.

Scott Benner 1:14:33
So I'm going to wrap up with you. But I can't thank you enough for sharing this story with me. It was really unexpected, and I can't it's just very nice of you to share it with everybody. You're not going to be the only person who has been through some of these things. And I think it's good for people to hear other people talk about it. So that's

Speaker 1 1:14:54
what I decided in one to contribute. And I want Especially my story of how my desperation to not live brought me type one diabetes. It seemed even though it was already coming on but felt

Scott Benner 1:15:15
like the path the path that you were on taught you something every step of the way.

Speaker 1 1:15:22
Just been one amazing lesson after another. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:15:27
you've had a hell of a life.

Speaker 1 1:15:28
I always when the people come on and they say I hate this disease, like, it's such a, you know, all the hate about diabetes. I've never hated it. Because I feel like it. It is my life style.

Scott Benner 1:15:47
Yeah, no, I mean, you can't hate who you are. If you have diabetes, it's part of you. And you know, if you're gonna hate diabetes, you're gonna end up paying yourself. So there's a lot people can take from your, your general attitude and the way you tackle things. I'm very glad you added it to the podcast. I want to thank you very much.

Speaker 1 1:16:05
Thank you for talking with me and letting me tell my

Scott Benner 1:16:10
story. That's my pleasure. It really was Hold on one second for me.

I want to thank Claudia for coming on the show today and telling us her life story. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Tchibo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#1087 After Dark: From Depression to Grandiosity

Jules has type 1 diabetes and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at 19.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1087 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's episode of the podcast is an after dark. I'll be speaking with Jules who is 25 years old and diagnosed with type one diabetes two years ago. Today we're going to talk about how Jules experiences swings from deep depression to grandiosity, and so much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% off of your entire purchase at cosy earth.com, all you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. If you enjoy this, after dark, there are dozens more. There's a list available at juicebox podcast.com. Click up top where it says after dark or in the private Facebook group in the feature tab. There's lists of all the series. And you really should check out that private Facebook group. It's absolutely free, it has close to 44,000 members and it actually adds 150 new members every four days. There's an amazing conversation going on there right now that you would learn from enjoy or be able to help with this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one. Drink ag one.com/juice box when you use my link with your first order, you're going to receive a free welcome kit. That's a scoop a shaker in a container, you're going to receive five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D. That's all with your first order. If you use the link, drink ag one.com/juice box.

Jules 2:00
I'm Jules. I'm 25 I'm an artist and I live in Philly. Okay.

Scott Benner 2:07
Artists self proclaimed went to art school. How did becoming oh just

Jules 2:12
fully self proclaimed? Yeah, I've been doing like fiber arts since like, as long as I can remember. And I write poetry things like that.

Scott Benner 2:21
Do you make a living at it? No, no. What? How do you make a living?

Jules 2:27
Right now I'm unemployed.

Scott Benner 2:28
So how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Jules 2:31
I was 23. Oh, this

Scott Benner 2:33
is recent. Yes, yes. Okay, two years ago. Was it out of the blue? Or is there type one in your family and you were kind of expecting?

Jules 2:44
No type one doesn't actually run in my family. Which is why it was like so shocking. When I was diagnosed. My dad and my aunt have type two. But nobody in my family has type one.

Scott Benner 2:55
I see. How about other autoimmune issues? Ranging

Jules 3:00
my sister? Yeah, my sister is celiac.

Scott Benner 3:05
Sister's celiac. Any bipolar in the family? Yes. Do Can you just like loosely say where you don't need to be like it's my Uncle Jim. But you

Jules 3:18
know, I it's actually me. I've been diagnosed with bipolar. How long? I was diagnosed when I was 19. So that's what like, six years ago.

Scott Benner 3:27
Okay. Anything else? Thyroid? No, no. Okay. So for you your two diagnosis is our type one and bipolar.

Jules 3:37
And I actually have migraines to migraines.

Scott Benner 3:40
Thank you. All right. Tell me a little bit about when you Well, let me ask a question first. Where are you? Which were you diagnosed with first? Bipolar, bipolar? 19? I'm sorry, you said that. Okay. What's that like? And what leads up to the diagnosis. Um,

Jules 3:58
so it's actually like, really, like, so dramatic. I saw I was having a really bad migraine spell. And a doctor prescribed a steroid for me. And he didn't listen to me almost at all. He was just like, here's a medicine. He was like, this will be an aggressive treatment. And I said, Well, I'm struggling. So I will take this medication and trust you that it will be safe. And in fact, it was not. And I mean, it had a ton of like physical side effects. Like I was really dizzy and I wasn't able to eat or like walk I was really weak. But then I started, you know, not sleeping very much. Having all of the like, typical manic symptoms of like thinking I was the smartest person in the world. You know, having so many ideas, thinking really fast talking really fast. But then actually, like this is kind of where my diabetes story starts. Even though I wasn't diagnosed until I was 23. I started taking this medication called Zyprexa. Okay, Hey, do you know that one? I'm looking it up as

Scott Benner 5:03
you're speaking? Gotcha.

Jules 5:04
Yeah. So it's an anti psychotic. The thing was the practices that it's been linked to diabetes, typically type two. But and I want to say like 2004 2006, there was a study or not a study, but there was this like class action lawsuit from a bunch of people who had taken this mat, and were like, Hey, I have diabetes now. And I did not have diabetes before I took this medication. And of course, like the drug company, like paid everybody off, they never admitted that it was the medication. But it's still sold today, which is, like blows my mind. But yeah, I mean, I think that's like how my diabetes started developing. And I will say, like, I don't think it's only the medication. I think it's also like, like environmental. Cause, like, you know, trauma can affect the development of diabetes and things like that. I'm sure there's other things that have affected me. And I'm sure it's in my genes, even though no one else I know. How's it?

Scott Benner 5:56
Yeah. What was? So take me back before that, like, What's life? Like for the first 18 years? Is there any indication? Are you depressed, overly moody? Like, is there anything going on? Do you have a lot of trouble in your life? Or was it just like, clear sailing, and then all of a sudden, the headaches came?

Jules 6:15
No, I mean, I've been depressed since I was like, 14. Okay. Yeah. And like, I think I had kind of like light, kind of manic symptoms, like I would have times where I'd be feeling really down and I'd be like, Oh, my God, like this so amazing and beautiful. But I was obviously like a child. So it didn't kind of manifest in the same dramatic way that it did when I was 19.

Scott Benner 6:37
What's the I want more context for? I felt like the smartest person in the world? Yes,

Jules 6:43
I think it's kind of I think they call that like grandiosity. But it was essentially like, I was just kind of up all night thinking, having all of these ideas and like, seeing the big picture, at least, like what I thought was the big picture. And I was like, Oh, my goodness, no one has ever thought these things before. So that's kind of where that came from.

Scott Benner 7:05
Did you fix the world during your? Did you write down a manifesto or anything? Rachel's was like, I got this hold on a second. Looking now, yeah, looking back on those, were your thoughts valid? Or do you look back at them when you're not manic? and think, oh, wow, these are like grandiose thoughts.

Jules 7:25
I mean, I think some of them are. One thing I was really struggling with. And so that I was in college when this was happening. And I think I'm sure you know, this, a lot of colleges like do not treat their disabled students very well. And so that's one thing. I was like really thinking about a lot of like, how am I friends like interacted with the college and how I did, I was like a person who had migraines. And so I was like, Oh, my gosh, no one is seeing how all of these dots are connecting. And I mean, like, it was true, but I also think that people probably did, yeah.

Scott Benner 7:56
What was your intention? When you went to college? What what did you think you were going to study? I

Jules 8:02
actually thought I wanted to be an engineer and be a math major, but I took some math classes and decided that I hated it. Were

Scott Benner 8:10
you good at math prior to that? Yes, yeah. Okay. Did you you didn't graduate? Correct.

Jules 8:17
I did graduate.

Scott Benner 8:19
Oh, you did? Okay. Cool. I wasn't sure if this struggle was enough that got you out of it. So you graduated with a degree in anthropology,

Jules 8:27
anthropology? That

Scott Benner 8:29
was a big switch. Right? Yeah. Is did you make that decision after your bipolar diagnosis or before? It was before before Okay, so the headaches come the medication comes for the headaches? Is that what they're for originally? Because I'm trying to follow it you said like there's first of all my expelling the drug raid z y p r e XA. Yes. Okay. So the only like, the only results I can find searching is that there was looks like in 2009, Eli Lilly pled guilty to a charge that illegally marketed their anti psychotic drugs, a proxy for an unapproved use, there was a payment for that to settle civil lawsuits. That's an NBC News article. And then the New York Times says Lilly agreed to pay 500 million to settle 18,000 lawsuits from people who claim they had developed diabetes or other diseases after taking it. And that list the drug is being for schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Okay. So you take, but they give you that just for the headaches or do you think at that time the doctor saw you as bipolar?

Jules 9:45
No, so I took a steroid for the headache. I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And so the steroid kind of like set off all of those really intense mental health symptoms.

Scott Benner 9:57
I see headaches, steroids, then this Zyprexa then the diabetes. Hmm, okay. But your sister has celiac? Yes. Gotcha. All right. I think I understand. Okay, so does the medication help for the bipolar? Or where does it land you? So

Jules 10:17
I mean, I think to some extent it helped, but mostly in the way that it like numbs you out. And I actually don't take it anymore. Do you want to hear the story of like my diabetes diagnosis related to the medication? I

Scott Benner 10:29
want to hear the whole thing. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay.

Jules 10:32
So when you start taking, so actually, when I first started taking this medication, they like lied to me. They didn't tell me it was an anti psychotic. They were like, it's a mood stabilizer. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I love having stable moods. So I started taking it about, I want to say like two weeks, maybe like three or four weeks after somewhere in that timeframe, I saw a different psychiatrist. And he was the first one to say like, Hey, by the way, you know, some people will get diabetes after taking this, but he didn't, he really downplayed it, he didn't make it seem like that was a big deal. Or something that happened frequently. And it was also the whole, you know, like, Bipolar is a lifelong diagnosis. And so you'll need to be taking this medication the rest of your life. And you don't necessarily need to take this particular one. But right now you're unstable. So you have to take it in, like whatever. So I took it for a long time. One of the big problems is it probably could have been caught earlier if I had like regular access to a psychiatrist. But I was in college and like psychiatrists are expensive. And like the one who took my insurance I like really did not like

Scott Benner 11:44
I got up this morning, I went downstairs, I got my shaker, my scoop, and I put a scoop of ag one of the shaker filled it with a cold water and gave it a good knee like that, you know, I mean, and it dissolved, and I drank it. Well, when you stop my shaker, and was on my way. I bet you I didn't spend. I mean, let's be fair, two minutes doing that, probably. And it tastes great. I know ag one tastes great, because I've tried other supplementary inks. And guess what? They were bad, horrible. And it made my tongue mad at me, but not ag one. I love ag one. It's easy to mix, easy to drink, easy to do. Ag one can replace your multivitamin, your probiotic, and more in one simple drinkable habit. Since 2010. They've improved the formula for ag 152 times this is in their pursuit of making the best foundational nutritional supplement possible. And they do that by using high quality ingredients and rigorous standards. So if you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with a G one. Try ag one and get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free ag one travel packs with your first purchase. Go to drink a G one.com/juice. Box. That's drink ag one.com/juice. box. Check it out. Why did you not like the one that you took your insurance? He

Jules 13:08
was just like, not very compassionate.

Scott Benner 13:13
Okay. Oh, that's very matter of fact. Yeah, I say, I have to say I can't find any, like, you know, online. I can't find any connection between Zyprexa and type one diabetes. It seems like yeah, it's specific to type two.

Jules 13:32
Yes, I agree. Yeah. So the reason that I think it's connected, and this is just like anecdotal, but I've noticed. So I mean, like, I stopped taking this medication for a while. I started taking it again when I had like another crisis. And at this point, I was already, like diagnosed with type one. And this was in 2021. So this was the year after my diagnosis. I started taking Zyprexa again, and obviously like in the first year, I really didn't need very much insulin at all. I think I was taking literally like two units of Joseba and like some Kenalog for mealtimes. But when I started taking the Zyprexa, my insulin resistance went up like so much and by like, maybe like month one or two of taking it again. I was taking like 30 or 40 units of insulin all of a sudden, okay, as opposed to like the five or 10 that I had been taking before. Okay. All

Scott Benner 14:25
right. I wonder. Well, I guess there's no, it's so hard like because, like you said, it's completely anecdotal. I mean, if you had type one you might have been honeymooning and then all of a sudden not been and needed more insulin as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Jules 14:41
So I mean, my like working theory in my brain of how this might have happened is that I'm sure I have like the gene or whatever that influences type one. What I think I think like probably my diabetes had been developing for a while just kind of like under the radar, but all of that insulin resistance that I started having when I saw Due to taking the medication, you know, made my pancreas work a lot harder. And so like part of it was being attacked by me my immune system. Part of it was working really hard. And I'm sure that didn't help with like the progression of the disease.

Scott Benner 15:13
I also wondered, did you ever get a diagnosis for the headaches? Yeah. What do they think causes those?

Jules 15:20
They think it's just migraines.

Scott Benner 15:21
Migraines. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So it's just through school, you're dealing with both of these things? Probably not the not the diabetes after your graduation. Yes. But are you dealing with them? Like, like, Let's do with them one at a time. The bipolar thing comes up your family who is helping you? Are you on your own with this?

Jules 15:48
Well, in theory, my family was helping you but they didn't really do anything. That was like actually helpful, if that makes sense. I said, my dad just took me to the hospital. He, yeah, he like took one look at me and was like, You're doing bad. And like, took me to the ER, and I went inpatient. And that was obviously like, a really horrible experience. Going

Scott Benner 16:11
into a hospital for mental health stuff is a bad it was a bad experience. Yes. Did you go in voluntarily?

Jules 16:22
Technically, yes. But I didn't really have a handle on like, what was actually happening, like, because my migraines had been so severe. And I was having all these side effects from the like steroid. I thought I was like, going to the hospital for like, all those physical things that were going on. And it wasn't until like, a few days later that I realized I was like, Oh, I'm in psychiatric care right now.

Scott Benner 16:44
Oh, wow. So you were in such a state that you weren't even certain how that happened? That's interesting. I was I was so out of it. Yeah. Do you? Have you talked to your like your father, your people in your family afterwards that did they described you? What about your, like, your self made them say, Oh, this is Eddie has to go somewhere?

Jules 17:06
Well, I mean, I think like my dad saw me like not being able to walk and things like that, or like not being able to walk long distances and being really fatigued. But I think it's actually kind of funny looking back, I like had this whole master plan of like, how I was going to sue my college for all of like, the disability discrimination that was going on. And my dad, like, heard about that and was like, red flag. Oh,

Scott Benner 17:28
this sounds wacky. Gotcha. And nothing else. And like your dad didn't ever say like, Oh, I've seen this before or so this is all new to him. Right? Yeah. Wow. It must be difficult. Have you think about that ever? Like, like, what a? I mean, because it's happening to you. So you obviously have one perspective of it. But people around you who are just like, you know, live in their lives, and there's jewels, and you know, and then all of a sudden this stuff starts happening? I don't know if I would know what to do, either. I guess that's what I'm saying.

Jules 18:02
Right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that's been really hard for me to kind of deal with. I've like knowing how harmful that experience was, but also understanding like, he thought he was doing what was best for me.

Scott Benner 18:15
Yeah, yeah. How and tell me more about the experience and, and why it was harmful.

Jules 18:21
And mostly, I was just like, I didn't, I had no idea what was going on, like, no comprehension of, like, why I was there. And like, I mean, so many, like, just weird things kind of happen. One of the biggest things is that I wasn't sleeping. And a hospital keeps you on a pretty regimented schedule. And so they would like, turn my lights on at eight in the morning and get me up even though I was up until like, six in the morning. So I was just like, so, like, confused. So out of it. One of the other like, super weird things that happened is that they put me in a substance abuse group. Even though that was like not an issue that I was experiencing. Okay,

Scott Benner 19:03
were you Yeah, were you using anything at all? Yeah,

Jules 19:07
I mean, I was but it wasn't to the level of like, like disorder or like something that was harming me.

Scott Benner 19:13
What were you doing at the time? This weed? Okay, and uh, but they heard weed and then put your right into substance abuse. Right? Yeah, the weed help you at all with any of this or? Oh,

Jules 19:24
yeah, I use like medical marijuana. Now. It's really helpful. It just helps with my pain and like anxiety.

Scott Benner 19:32
So you have so tell me about the ebbs and flows of bipolar like you're more functional at times and then manic do you get depressed then are you just manic and

Jules 19:44
oh, yeah, I got so depressed. So what's funny is that since my bipolar diagnosis, I've actually like, worked with my current psychiatrists to kind of like get on diagnosed with that actually, because every time I've had like a man neck like episode, it's been caused by something physiological. So like that time it was the steroid and 2021 like pretty shortly after I was diagnosed with diabetes, I started I like first started taking insulin, and I was taking too much. And so I was getting all of these low blood sugars in the middle of the night. Yeah, and I'm sure you know, like how blood sugar affects you. It's awful. And like, especially when you're waking up every night at like, two in the morning with it. And I was getting all of these like, you know, shaking, feeling really tense, feeling really scared, and not being able to make it back to sleep. And that kind of like escalated into like me, just having all of those like symptoms again, like, especially when my body doesn't sleep like that's when kind of like all the wackiest, like thought patterns start happening?

Scott Benner 20:49
Does the weed help you sleep?

Jules 20:52
Sometimes Sometimes?

Scott Benner 20:53
How much do you have to smoke to get an impact? Like take a couple hits? Or you have to get blasted? Or like what's the what's the, the amount that helps you? Um,

Jules 21:04
so I actually typically take like concentrates from the dispensary. And I do have to take like a good amount, because I just like have developed a tolerance at this point.

Scott Benner 21:15
Right? Are you vaping? It? No, not typically? No. Okay. Um, okay. So looking back on all this, because it's interesting, because, well, let me let me say why I find it interesting. Because you're a person in the middle of an episode, I don't know what to call it. I'm saying episode. And you're also trying to judge what's happening to you. And, and so I can see somebody listening and saying, Well, Jewel says it was a bad experience. But Jules was also in the middle of, you know, some sort of a breakdown in a crisis, and so on. But I wouldn't want to dismiss your experience. So how do you make sense of the input that's coming into you? And how do you judge it?

Jules 22:04
What do you mean, like the input?

Scott Benner 22:05
Well, like when things are happening around you? Like, like, is it not possible that if like, you're like, you know, I got put into a substance abuse program, but it wasn't right and blah, blah, blah. But like, is it possible that a person off to the side who's not going through what you're going through would say, Yeah, I know, Jules feels this way. But this is very necessary. And like, do you know, you mean, like, how do you? I guess it feels like that the world is coming to you through a different lens. And I don't know how to separate what is actually happening from what you feel like is happening. I don't know if I'm being clear, but is that better?

Jules 22:43
Okay, okay. Yeah, well, so I mean, what I would say is, sorry, I'm gathering my thoughts go play. But my so my dad, I'm sure it was like, Yeah, that was absolutely necessary. But I, I actually, my wife and I were together at that time. We weren't married yet. But we were together. And one thing we've talked about kind of like consistently since that happened is that there were ways that I could have been taken care of that didn't involve a hospital. Like mainly, when I kind of get into that like manic like headspace. It is a lot more like I just need help taking care of my physical body, because it's really hard for me to eat, and like sleep and stuff. And if that stuff is taken care of, it's not really like I'm a danger to myself. It's just kind of like I'm having a bad time. And that's kind of what was going on. Like that first time that's ever happened. was like, I would have been okay. Not going to the hospital. But that's just kind of like how it played out.

Scott Benner 23:40
Yeah, I guess the beginning, like, you know that now, but in the beginning, nobody had a context for that at all.

Jules 23:46
Right. I see. Oh, sorry. And like, my dad had never seen me like this before, right.

Scott Benner 23:50
He's probably scared. Yeah, you have. Okay, so I'm sorry. You said you're married. How long? You've been married?

Jules 24:01
Since 2019. So about it'll be four years in August. Okay.

Scott Benner 24:04
But you knew your wife prior. You've been dating for a while I see. Married Gotcha. Okay, so how does that work in a relationship? Like, like, because I one thing I didn't get an answer to, and it's just, it's my fault. I got away from it. But I'm assuming there's ebbs and flows to your, to your state of being like, how long did they last for?

Jules 24:28
So depression loss, like way longer, then? Well, that's interesting. An interesting question, I would say so I think I was telling you about how in 2021 I was starting to have like more like manic like symptoms because of those low blood sugars that were happening. And that kind of like set off a train that was going for like six months. Like I just like really did not sleep for more than like four hours for like six months straight and not really We affected me, I think like, the biggest way that affected me is that it's really hard to keep track of insulin. And like when you've taken out what your blood sugar was, I kept forgetting if I had taken it or not. So I guess that's a little bit of a no,

Scott Benner 25:15
no, no. But exhaustion. I mean, already is going to impact blood sugar. And right, and I see what you're saying. So you get so tired. You can't even track what's happening.

Jules 25:25
Right? But it was scary. Yeah, it's like scary to not be able to do that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:30
I mean, that you because right, you get into that moment where you're like, do I need insulin? Or don't lie? If I give myself some am I gonna get too low? Or if I get Yeah, well, that's terrible. So how did you did you? Are you were you able to figure it out or just live like that for six months.

Jules 25:50
I kind of just lived like that. I ended up going to the hospital again in July of that year. Because I that was like, one of the things I was experiencing. I was like, I can't do this by myself. And I was like, for some reason, I was like, I trust a nurse at a hospital to do this. For me, even though like they they really had no idea what they were doing.

Scott Benner 26:15
So did you check yourself in for diabetes reasons? No, for mental health, for mental health, but But thinking like, at least I'll get some help with my diabetes while I'm there as well.

Jules 26:26
Right? It was like, at least I don't have to worry about this aspect. Yeah, my mental health right now. Like I can just focus on like, my actual mental state. Right.

Scott Benner 26:35
So So was that a valuable experience for you?

Jules 26:39
I would say also, no. I think like, I mean, I honestly think just like, from my first experience going inpatient, I don't think I realized, like how much trauma was in my body from that experience. And then I went again, and I was just having this like, really awful trauma response that I didn't even know what was going on. I thought I just had some like mystery illness. But I was like, you know, I, one thing that's super weird that happens to me sometimes is my hands and feet will get really cold. And I learned that that's because like when you're in fight or flight, all of your, like blood flow will go to your major muscle groups, as your body's like preparing for you to like run away, or like fight or whatever. Yeah. Um, so I was like, really tense my hands and feet were really cold. I was shaking all the time. And it like, I was like, Is this what like, withdrawal is like, but I wasn't withdrawing from anything. So it was just like a really, it was a really intense experience, then I think my biggest issue with like, a psychiatric hospital is like, the medication aspect of it. Because they really just don't tell you what the medications are or what they do. They're just like, we think this will help you. And I took this one medication, it's like an older anti psychotic that just like really was so uncomfortable in my body. Like it really made the muscle tension so much worse.

Scott Benner 28:05
That's crazy. I mean, that's just it's yeah, it's the idea that you're so feeling something like like, obviously, you know, like fight or flight as an example. It's so necessary, but it gets turned up to a million. And then all of this happens, and I don't know how you're supposed to. I don't know how you're supposed to traverse that, you know, like, it's just, it's like, the switches in your head are just sending too much of one thing or not enough of another and, and then these are like the physical manifestations of those things happening, then that you don't match society's idea of how you should be and so they try to medicate you to put you back. Well, what would you want to have happen?

Jules 28:57
So this is actually something I think about a lot now that I've had like multiple hospitalizations, because I never want to go back. It's traumatizing. It's awful. I don't think any like psychiatric survivor thinks that they had a good experience. But so one thing that I've been like working on length the past, kind of like, what year is it? 2023. Like year, year and six months, is kind of like building support systems in order to survive that kind of thing again, because like I said, it really is just as long as I can, like, eat and sleep like I will be okay. Like it's not necessarily like, bad or wrong to feel all of the symptoms that I feel. It's just kind of like, if I can't take care of my body, then I'm like not going to do well. So one thing I've been working on is like kind of getting, like friends and people in my community to kind of like just be on deck. So that like if that happens again, they can like come over and just like sit with me and Like, you know, make me a sandwich or something. And then the other thing I'm working on is just kind of like being, like allowing myself to just, like, feel more safe with my emotions. I think that's another like aspects that made it really hard is that, you know, like the first time I had like any kind of like dramatic feelings in front of my dad, like, that's when I went to the hospital. And so now my body kind of associates like, Oh, you're having big feelings? Oh, you're going to go to the hospital now? Yeah. And so I'm trying to kind of, like disrupt that in my brain and be like, actually, like, it's okay to feel scared or feel really sad or things like that. Right?

Scott Benner 30:39
and express yourself without it, landing you in the hospital? How high? How successful have you been with pulling people like that together in your circle?

Jules 30:51
Um, well, the thing is, is I haven't had a super like crisis since this has happened. But I have like a couple of close friends who I've texted and been like, hey, like, if this happens, would you be able to just like, come over? And they were like, yeah. And so that's kind of like where we're at in the process right now.

Scott Benner 31:09
Do you? Do you think just knowing that they're willing to help is valuable?

Jules 31:14
Yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 31:16
Yeah, I would imagine, right? Like, just to kind of keep away the fear from looming, right? Isn't does it help talking about it like this? Or does it bring it up and make it uncomfortable?

Jules 31:28
I know, I'm not feeling very upset at all right now. I think it feels good to like be less than two.

Scott Benner 31:33
Okay. Yeah. I, it's interesting that you've kind of taught yourself to, like, like the what you just said, like, I'm not feeling upset right now. I thought, Oh, I didn't ever consider if I'm upset or not. Yeah, you know, I just am or I'm not saying the same with like, happy, sad, bored. Like all of it like I, I don't see you almost are almost taught yourself to step outside of yourself to examine yourself. So you can make decisions that try to help you get to where you want to be? Yeah, it's interesting. What are your goals, then? Are you hoping to work? Are you hoping to do your art like? Yeah,

Jules 32:16
so I'm actually I just completed a certified peer specialist training. Are you familiar with peer support?

Scott Benner 32:23
I mean, I know the concept actually. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Jules 32:28
So I have this certification in Pennsylvania that I would need in order to like work in that field. And I'm currently work looking for employment, like within the peer support specialist, you know, field.

Scott Benner 32:40
How long did it take to get the certification in

Jules 32:44
Pennsylvania to 75 hour training, and it was spread out over like four weeks.

Scott Benner 32:48
I feel like there's somebody else who's been on the show, who had their struggles, and then went this route with their profession. And they're doing really well now. But I don't know if it's exactly peer support, but I do remember his name. So I'm looking it up right now to see if I can figure it out. Hmm, interesting. I'm going to try to figure it out and get back to you on it. Because I don't want to take up our time here doing this. With I don't want to I don't want the silence while I'm figuring it out. And so do you think that the process of helping other people will help you stay on track?

Jules 33:29
Yeah, I absolutely do. I think like, the biggest thing for me is that I don't believe that psych ward should exist, like at all. I think like right now, like, as we are like, they are an important function of like, if you really don't have a place to go where you can be safe, like that can be a place. But I think just the concept of like locking someone up. Yeah, is really harmful. And I think that like, as a society, we kind of need to build more pathways for people to like, you know, maintain safety through a crisis. And I think peer support, have you heard of a peer respite house before?

Scott Benner 34:08
Peer respite house? I haven't heard that. No. Yeah,

Jules 34:13
so it's like similar to a psych ward in that it's like a crisis center, you can It's open 24 hours, you can go there. But the like, main difference is it's based on like the recovery model, not like the medical model that a psychiatrist would use. It doesn't lock you up, they won't like require you to take medication. And it's just kind of like, a safe place for you to go where you can, like meet a peer supporter and just kind of like, survive. And so that's kind of like, the direction that I would love to see happen of like, there isn't one in Philadelphia, which is where I live, you know, like my ambition for myself, which I don't know if will be realized, but like, my ambition for myself is for there to be one in Philadelphia and like, if that means me starting it, I think that'd be really cool. Like, I would love to do that.

Scott Benner 34:58
How do you You, like envision that working? So when someone's in a crisis, you would bring them in? And do what like, Well, how would it be different than the model that exists now?

Jules 35:13
Well, the biggest thing is that I think I like mentioned this a second ago is that peer support is based on the recovery model, which is basically saying like, and I mean, this is also my personal belief system, I don't necessarily think like psychiatric disorders are like a disorder or something wrong with you. But the recovery model also says, like, you know, you have strengths, and we want to work with you and your internal resources, like in order to kind of like, build you back up and like, bring you back to a place where you feel safe. Versus like a psychiatrist, or like a psychiatric hospital would be like, you know, you're having symptoms, you have a disorder, and so we're going to medicate you for this disorder. So that's the main difference. I think, just in general, like the, I think, the most important differences, honestly, like, there's no lock on the door. I think that's like, what can make us like word the most traumatizing is that, like if you're having a bad experience, so you can't just leave. And if you're in, like a respite house, like that is open to you and you're allowed to, do

Scott Benner 36:18
you think that they're not allowed to leave those situations that people aren't allowed to leave those situations? For safety reasons?

Jules 36:26
I mean, that's what they say. Yeah. I mean, I think like, in my experience, a lot of it is that they want to because you're taking medication, they don't want you to leave until you're kind of like on a like, quote, unquote, stable dosage of it. And you're like, symptoms have kind of evened out, which takes time. And I mean, they like, in theory wants to set you up with like, some kind of outpatient treatment program. But that doesn't actually always happen. Like my dad was recently hospitalized, and he kind of just went to like, nothing.

Scott Benner 36:59
He went to say that I'm not sure I understand what was he hospitalized for?

Jules 37:03
He was hospitalized for like depression and anxiety. Okay.

Scott Benner 37:07
Oh, that's interesting. So did did your experience help your dad, like bring his to light? Or did he know already? Oh, no,

Jules 37:15
he definitely didn't know I think. I don't think he even fully realized, like how much his anxiety affected him until, until like, he had this kind of like crisis. One thing that I think is kind of funny is I think, I mean, I'm autistic. And I think, like, you know, the whole autism is genetic thing. I think my dad is likely autistic too. And I think that's kind of like played into his experience in a way that he doesn't recognize or at least doesn't recognize yet.

Scott Benner 37:43
Right? Is that, is that a diagnosis for you? When did you learn that? Um,

Jules 37:47
so actually self diagnose. And I think I realized when I was maybe like, right around the time I actually first got diagnosed with bipolar is when I started to be like, Oh, maybe this is a possibility instead of bipolar.

Scott Benner 37:59
So what are the what are symptoms or ideas that led you to that?

Jules 38:04
First of all, like the medication inducing All of this made me really be like, I don't think this is like a genuine bipolar diagnosis. And when I look back on that experience, a lot of a lot of just like what I was experiencing kind of lines up a lot with autism in the way that like, I was really overstimulated when I was in the hospital. And that was like, causing a lot of distress. Right, like the bright lights, the like constant noise, I think about also like communication. And I mean, I think that's another thing that kind of goes when you're not sleeping very much, is that it's really hard to kind of like form coherent thoughts. But I think also, like, I struggle with communication, just like in my day to day life, and I think, like having that kind of crisis, like really just highlighted it, versus like creating a problem that wasn't already there, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 38:54
Yeah. Do you have an example of struggling to communicate with people? Yeah, I mean,

Jules 38:58
things like, I don't really understand idioms very well. And I think just also, there's a lot of like, a kind of nonverbal communication that goes on that I'm not always able to pick up on.

Scott Benner 39:14
Do is sarcasm to sarcasm miss you too.

Jules 39:19
Typically, I actually do understand sarcasm or

Scott Benner 39:23
idiom, like that's interesting. That's a that's a that's a big so if you I just literally Googled examples, so I wouldn't have to come up with them. But like if I said, You hit the nail on the head, you don't that doesn't make sense to you. That one

Jules 39:38
I know. That's the thing is like a lot of them. I've heard so many times that I'm like, Okay, now I get it. But if it's the first time I'm hearing it like yeah, I probably wouldn't understand. You can't you can't put it together. Yeah, that's right. Like that doesn't make intuitive sense to me. Like what do you mean I'm not using a hammer?

Scott Benner 39:57
hit a nail on the head. You hit the nail on the head. You know, yours is not the first conversation I've had with somebody who's got a bipolar, like diagnosis, or even is struggling in this way, even if that's not your diagnosis. And it's, um, it's really an interesting conversation from my perspective, because you are either like you're experiencing life, unlike what the norm tells us, it's supposed to be like, like, like, like, so how the, I guess the average person experiences it. But does that make it wrong? Or in need of being fixed? Or is this just your experience, and you need to get through it? No differently than anybody else? Like, do you are you going to need somebody to come make sure you eat a sandwich every once in a while in your life, not unlike there are plenty of people listening to this right now, who can't make it out the front door of their house without 16 ounces of coffee in their hand. And, and they they think they're living a normal existence, but they don't sleep enough, their body doesn't have enough, you know, vitamins, nutrients, like they're not taking care of themselves in such a way that they have to like, give themselves caffeine to get up and move. Right. And we don't think of that as an issue. Like, no one, no one says, look at all those people going into Starbucks, while they're really living an unbalanced life. And, and so is the difference, self harm. Because people who don't get coffee aren't going to, like do something that is so socially outside the norm, that it ends in the harm of them or another person, like do you think that's the line.

Jules 41:48
So what I how I kind of conceptualize it is that psychiatry is kind of based around work in school. Like, if you look in the DSM, for every, like disorder to be diagnosed, there's like the little caveat that these symptoms are like causing impairment in your like, work or school life. So a person who's like relying on coffee and not getting enough sleep, like if they're still showing up to work on time, and they're still doing their work, like they probably won't be diagnosed with anything. It's really like when it gets to the level of like, you're not able to, like perform your little capitalistic duties that you get diagnosed with something. Yeah.

Scott Benner 42:26
Yeah, I It's interesting. I, I don't probably fit your vibe. But that is kind of what I see is that, like, the society has a stream, right? That just flows. And as a collective, we don't want people interrupting that stream. And if they do, then we move them off to the sides. And, and by the way, I don't know that that's not needed to keep us society moving. But it's the it doesn't make it right or fair to the person who gets slid off to the side because of it. Like one does it hurt? Like the life you've described? Obviously, I think, first of all, let me make sure I understand, not what you would choose if you had the choice, right. Like you just you probably prefer to just get up in the morning, go to work, do something you like come home, hug your wife paint the walls, like that kind of stuff. But so it's not it's not a life you would choose. But since it's it's given to you, and you have no ability to say no, thank you. I don't want this. You don't want to be marginalized. You still want to live your life. Is that am I about getting all that?

Jules 43:36
Yeah, I mean, I think one thing I've like heard a lot of the yogic survivors talk about is that the DSM and like just like yogic diagnosis in general, is like meant to be destigmatize, right to be like, oh, a lot of people literally say like, oh, you know, my depression is just like, diabetes, where it's like this physical thing that's going on, I take medication for it. You know, it's my, like, then I feel better like that narrative. Yeah. But I actually like I've experienced a lot of like, negative consequences just because of my diagnosis. One thing that actually happened is that after so I was in college when I went to the hospital for the first time, and I wasn't allowed to come back. I was allowed to finish my classes, but they were basically were like, you're a danger to yourself, and you can't live in your dorm anymore. And so like things like that are like, I don't think it's necessarily bad to like treat a mental illness because like, if you're suffering, I think you deserve help. But I think like, diagnoses can be so stigmatizing and like effect, like, have you ever heard about how, you know someone with a bipolar diagnosis might not be top on the list to get like a liver transplant, or things like that? Because they're seen as like you're responsible or like will make bad choices that will like impact. Oh, you know, their success? Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:55
I didn't know that. But I, as you're saying it, it stands to Isn't that that would be the thought process on that side? And then can you tell me they wouldn't let you come back to school. They said you were a risk to be a harm to yourself plan. I mean, I unfairly, like know a little bit about your story more than we've said so far. So why would they think that? So

Jules 45:20
one thing that happened is I actually met with a psychopath, like, there's like a school psychiatrist, who basically decided this. And she saw me when I was in the hospital, so I was like, really, really doing poorly. And I think that's kind of like what She based her decision on. But that's the thing too, is that they never communicated this to me. They never said like, this is exactly why we're doing this. They were just kind of like, this was her decision. And she's the doctor. So we will listen to her. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:48
Did you? Have you ever tried to hurt yourself? No, no. Have you had ideation? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Is that is that fairly common for you? Back then now? We're where? So I

Jules 46:01
mean, back then. No, it wasn't really something I was experiencing. I think I like kind of alluded to this when I was talking about how hard it was to take care of my diabetes when I really wasn't sleeping. And that's the point where I was like, I was really scared. I was gonna, like, accidentally overdose myself on insulin. And I was like, You know what, I would rather just like, take my own life. So I don't have to worry about that anymore. You know, like, if it's gonna happen by accident, I'd rather like do it on purpose. But no, at the time, I wasn't really experiencing anything like that. It didn't have to do with like, why I was hospitalized or anything? Yeah.

Scott Benner 46:36
Did you ever have a plan? Yeah. You had a plan? Okay. You knew the method, the whole the whole thing? Yeah. Okay. Did that go into anyone's decision about where they wanted you to be? So

Jules 46:52
I mean, while I was with my wife, they weren't super concerned about that. Because they were like, you know, I can keep you safe in our home. And I'll just, like, be there with you. But I was really scared. And I was like, I actually, that's why I like took myself to the hospital the second time in July 2021. Yeah, I was like, I am really scared. I'm gonna do something.

Scott Benner 47:13
Yeah. Do you have enough perspective to see why someone not experiencing what you're experiencing? Wouldn't want that around them?

Jules 47:25
I mean, I think so. I think it just kind of goes along with like, kind of the diagnoses that I like bipolar is a really stigmatized diagnosis like, and I think like, I think there's just like a normative expectation of like how you're supposed to be. And I think like, probably like, schizophrenic people experience this, to some extent to you, maybe even more so than someone with a bipolar diagnosis, but like, you know what I mean, like, I was acting like, not myself, like, I was like, saying wacky things and like, things that didn't make sense to other people. Yeah. And so I do, like, see, and I understand why. But I think I'd also just goes back to like, I don't think that being non normative is bad, right? I think it just is. No,

Scott Benner 48:08
I don't I agree with you. I'm trying to figure out when does it feel to someone else, like, I don't know, like, what's like a bombastic example, I can use, Oh, I like to my house kind of quiet. If I walked downstairs, and there was a rave in the living room, I'd be like, I need you all to leave. Like, like, this is not a thing I want around me. And if they said, Well, this is who I am, I'd be like, go be used somewhere else. And, and so it's, it's just such a, I can, what I want to say is that I completely understand as best I can, your perspective, and why your life should be yours. And you should live it the way that it's getting live, like. Like the way I'm living, is as much to do with how the chemicals in my brain are, are dialed up as your situation is, right. Like I can't like take credit for the fact that I don't have the issues you have, right, just as just as you can't take blame for yours. Like it's not on, it's not on purpose. It's not it's a thing that happened. And, and so everyone's deserving of their of their peace of mind and to live their life the way you know, the way that they want to or that they have to I guess it's just such a difficult issue. I don't know. And I was wondering how much of that like you can I don't know what the right word is like, like, how much of that you can appreciate and how much of that is lost because it's your situation. Does that make sense?

Jules 49:55
I don't know if I understand.

Scott Benner 49:59
I don't I'm trying to like find a way to like make the example but not. But I don't want to like my examples, not apples to apples, obviously, if I'm walking down the street, and a homeless man is talking to himself and running after me, that is, that's his body's living the way it's tuned. And it's not it's very likely not his fault that he's like that. I still don't want to deal with it. Like, I fully understand. Yeah. And but yeah. But, but as the society is, as a, as a thoughtful society, we should be dealing with it, we should be trying to help. But then what happens if the help that we can think to give is not the help he wants? Because that, that feels like your situation? Like, there's a world that you live in, and a world that's built to help people with your with your I don't know, your situation, right? And you don't like the way the world's decided to help you? And I don't know what the answer is beyond someone in your situation, being the person who offers the help, but then how the hell does that happen? Chills? Like, because isn't it possible that you won't be able to fulfill that responsibility? If you were to set something like that up? Do you see what I'm saying? I don't know. Like, it's so I'm flummoxed by, it almost feels like we're living on two different planes of existence. But But ya know, together. I hope all that made sense. Like I, yeah.

Jules 51:41
Yeah. And I mean, I think my response to that is kind of like, I think, just like the mental health system is so narrow, right? Like, there's like kind of one path for you to take if you're diagnosed with a mental illness. And like, to some extent, you have agency of whether you take medication or not, not typically like in an inpatient setting, but people with like, less severe conditions like don't necessarily, aren't necessarily like forced to take medication. But when I think about the example you gave of the homeless person, one thing I think about is like, how many of their problems would go away? If they just had a house? Like, would they be experiencing their mental health issues to that extent, like if they were just not living in such a stressful situation? And like, maybe, instead of automatically taking them to a hospital? Like, what if? What if we gave them a house, and I think there's a lot of things that kind of like fall under that umbrella? Like things like food insecurity can really affect your mental health, things like poverty? Yeah, even just like kind of living under chronic stress, a lot of us, like most of us are expected to work like way beyond our capacity that our bodies are able to work. And that can lead to all sorts of things. And like, it makes a lot of sense that you would be distressed, like under that circumstance. And so I think, like, the way I conceptualize it is like, I think there's so many ways that we could help mental health that aren't like the psychiatric system. Yeah, we just don't do it. Yeah. And the systems aren't in place.

Scott Benner 53:16
And you think that that doesn't happen, because in a, in a society that's built like ours, it's it's structured around you succeed. You get things you don't succeed, you don't you don't have things like i Listen, I'll tell you, I don't take a lot of time off. I definitely don't take as much time off as I should. But last week, for about 11 days, my wife and I just we, we left the house, like we just went off and visit our kids and you know, did that kind of stuff. So I wasn't working for me think I left on a Friday morning, drove all day, expense Saturday, through Saturday with my children. And then on Sunday, drove all day came home. But I didn't give myself off Monday, excuse me, I got up. I got up in the morning, and I went back to work, and I'm tired now. And I, I must have worked three weeks worth of my work to go away for 11 days. And then the stuff I couldn't get done before I left I pushed into this week. And I just got done telling somebody I have to get through this week so that I can maybe recenter myself for Monday. I have so many different support systems around me that even though I'm making a ton of bad decisions for myself about my sleep, and my workload, and my anxiety and you know, everything that goes on in my head, I'm going to get through it because I was because I was able to build structures around me to hold me up. And I was able to do that because my parents were able to raise me in a situation where that was possible to put me into a situation to better my life and all you need is one thing to You go wrong. And you not to be able to build those structures for yourself the way the society allows you to build them. And then it's just a spiral after that I imagine. Does that make sense? Like, I'm trying to put myself in that position, a position that I'm obviously not in. But I could be. If I didn't have a place to live, if I didn't have money, if I didn't have, you know, health insurance, I'd always be worrying about the most basic things. And with with no way out of them, I see what you're saying. I think I think I'm following you. Yeah. Wow. So what makes you want to come on the podcast, then?

Jules 55:44
I just wanted to tell you about like my diagnosis story, and kind of like how diabetes has like, played into all of these things. I think like, we often don't talk about, like the intersection of diabetes and mental health.

Scott Benner 55:57
Yes, so diabetes is difficult. on your best day. Right? So once you're dealing with all these other things, somethings that are skewing your ability to sleep or eat or focus. Does your wife help you with that? When it gets difficult? Or are you just struggling?

Jules 56:17
I think to some extent, they do help. But it's kind of like I have a lot of trouble, like letting them help. And I think it's also like, diabetes is a 24 hour kind of thing. Like if I wake up at two in the morning, and I have a low blood sugar like I like most likely, I'll be like the one gonna grab the juice box from the fridge. And like there, me, you know, my wife works. And so I can't necessarily like have them there. 24/7. So I think to some extent, like it is like I have to kind of carry a lot of it by myself, regardless of if I do get some help for it.

Scott Benner 56:53
Yeah. Well, is there anything that helps like, like structuring your day? certain ways, or? I mean, you said you're not working at the moment. So, I mean, obviously, I think you have more time, and that probably is valuable. But what do you have in place to help yourself?

Jules 57:11
I mean, I think like the diabetes Tech has helped quite a bit. Yeah, I actually, I'm not using a pump right now. But I was for a while. And I think like, having things kind of automated, just like helps with a mental burden link quite a bit.

Scott Benner 57:27
Can I ask you, I want to make sure I'm not doing the wrong thing. You've referred to your wife as your wife first, but then I just got they and them in a sentence. So am I doing okay, for you? Like, I'm not miss speaking?

Jules 57:40
I don't think you've messed under them. They do use they them pronouns. Even though they're my wife.

Scott Benner 57:45
I did not know that. So I've just like just now I went in reverse. And I was like, Did I mess this up? Okay, good. So you can't count on the person with consistency. It does need to be on you. Are you having the outcomes that you desire with your diabetes? Yeah, for sure. Well, that's cool. Do you have a CGM? Yes, so CGM, sometimes a pump MDI right now? And do you follow any kind of an eating structure?

Jules 58:21
I mean, I try not to restrict my eating because like, this is like part of my autism is that it's really hard for me to eat food sometimes. Just because of like, texture can be really overstimulating. So you know, I do my best to kind of just, like, keep myself on a schedule, and like, eat around the same time. But I don't like restrict, like, what foods I eat, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Scott Benner 58:43
describe that to me, you put a food in your mouth that has a texture, you don't like what happens next?

Jules 58:48
Oh, I just like can't eat it. Like the whole meal, it's just not going to go in my body. You

Scott Benner 58:56
can't just push that thing aside and continue on your way off? I say, yeah. Do you think of yourself as? How do you work? How do you think of yourself? Like when you if I said to you, if we just bumped into each other on the street? They were speed dating or something like that? And, and I said, Tell me about yourself? What would you say? I

Jules 59:19
mean, I think like, probably something similar to how I introduced myself at the beginning. I don't like to introduce myself in terms of like, professional kind of stuff. And I feel like I usually hold on to kind of like mental health diagnoses until like later on when I meet someone because I just always worry about, like, the perception of that and what that looks like.

Scott Benner 59:41
Do you do you have a friend structure around you? Like do you have a bunch of friends? Yeah, do how do you think they would describe you? That's

Jules 59:52
interesting. I guess like one thing I think about a lot is that my friends and I really enjoy astrology. So I'm in Aquarius and kind of like that. That's how I like get described a lot. I think it's like a lot of my traits are very like classic like typical, like Aquarius. So I think probably what my friends would say is like, I'm, I'm like an intelligent person I like, like to have kind of like stimulating conversations. You know, I like to read books. I like to just, I'm a very, like, playful and like silly person. And I'm like, compassionate.

Scott Benner 1:00:25
What kind of books do you read?

Jules 1:00:27
Right now? I, I've actually been reading a bunch of stuff about psychiatry. And then also, I'm reading like some fiction. I'm reading this, like, why a book that I read when I was a kid. And I've been reading a lot of Shirley Jackson.

Scott Benner 1:00:43
You like you like to escape when you're reading? Yeah. Okay, hold on. I had another thought. I was wrapped around your friends. What do you guys, when you get together? Like when your friend group gets together? What do you do?

Jules 1:00:59
I feel like we get together around like small parties a lot. Like we'll just kind of like have, like, my friend had a birthday party for their dog last year. And we had like a little Super Bowl party. I also play d&d. So that's one thing we do. And I like to just like the outside. Yeah, like go to the park, go hiking things like that.

Scott Benner 1:01:19
You called yourself. Do you say you were compassionate, empathetic? How did you describe yourself? Just? Yeah, I said compassionate, passionate, does that lead to you doing things for others? Or does it lead you to feeling bad about the things you're not doing?

Jules 1:01:39
No, it definitely leads me to do things for others. They definitely small things like, my friend got top surgery, and I like drove them to their like, you know, pre op appointment and things like that.

Scott Benner 1:01:48
Like you said, just you'll help when you can? Yeah, yeah, sure. And you see other people's struggles? Are you empathetic, like overly or to a level that you're comfortable with? Definitely, to a level I'm comfortable. I was around something the other day, where someone was just putting everything on themselves. You're like, oh, I need to know this. Because I have to. And I was and I was like, I'm thinking like, that's none of that's true. Like you, you're not, like, no one's expecting you to do this, you know, and gets the thing they put on themselves. So it's a, there's a healthy line in there between caring for people, and making it making you feel like you're failing constantly. So that's why I asked is just kind of fresh in my head. It's interesting. I mean, so you said you haven't had an episode in a while? How long has it been?

Jules 1:02:40
Well, I haven't had like a manic episode since 2021. And I mean, I kind of struggle with just like, I don't even know if at this point, I would call it depression. I think like, I write like, right now I'm feeling a lot of just like grief and rage. And those are like my primary emotions, but I don't necessarily think that's like anything, like clinical, you know,

Scott Benner 1:03:03
how does it How does it manifest start with grief? Like, what do you mean, you feel a lot of grief.

Jules 1:03:09
I mean, I feel a lot of just I think this kind of goes back to being an Aquarius, I feel a lot of like grief or like the collective of like, you know, all the people who die because they don't have health care because of COVID Or like, how the Earth is being polluted. And I think I kind of grieve like the lives that we could have if we lived under like, a different, even if we lived like in a different time period. Like all the things that would be different in our life, and all the ways that we could like access joy and like, access community and things like that. When I think Oh, go ahead,

Scott Benner 1:03:44
I'm sorry. If you have something to say go ahead. I can hold my thought.

Jules 1:03:47
Yeah, I mean, I think it just kind of shows up as like being sad a lot.

Scott Benner 1:03:51
Okay. When you think of living in another time period, do you go backwards or forwards? Usually forwards. Okay. So the the idea of the idea that it these things? Will we'll have more clarity as a species, hopefully in the future. And that yeah, kind of born in a time. Do you ever think? Well, at least I wasn't born at a time when? I don't know. But you know, 100 years ago? Why? I mean, honestly, just just with your mental health struggles. 5060 years ago, someone would have loaded you up on a drug thrown you in a room, you never want to come out again.

Jules 1:04:25
Right, exactly. I'm very grateful. I did not live in that time. Right. And

Scott Benner 1:04:30
that's not that long ago.

Jules 1:04:32
I know. Yeah. Right. Like I would have gotten a lobotomy if I was born in like 1920 or something, you know, very

Scott Benner 1:04:40
possible. Like you know, joking. Very possibly. My kid one of my kids asked me one time like, why is why does it feel like homelessness is is expanding? And I said, dude, 60 years ago, anybody who showed any mental health but it just got thrown into a facility you never would have seen them again. Their family like families used to drop people off. Like Like almost with the like, Well, this one didn't work out here you go in like like that, that kind of thing. And, and so when you think about the future you're hoping almost like in a Star Trek way that things are our maybe we find our way better and what? How nice would that be if everybody can kind of live like that? Yeah, yeah. So does you Do you not feel any? So the way I think about that is that I look back at progress, like when I hear people think, say things like things are so bad right now I'm like, well, Ganga scones not chasing us around the continent. So it's actually not going so bad at all, you know? Or, you know, even people talk about like, like social things from the time and I'm like, 50 years ago, this was way worse, like, we are absolutely moving forward. And it's just not fast enough for my life. Like, it's not going to, it's, it's not gonna, it's not gonna hit me, like, I'm not gonna get the benefit from this, like, that I understand a sadness about do you feel that way? Like, stuffs gonna get better? And I'm not going to be here for it? Oh,

Jules 1:06:13
yeah, for sure. I mean, I think like, kind of what we're all living through right now is like, we're just all living through a crisis. And I think there's going to be a time after the crisis when like, we can kind of, you know, repair as a society. But I think we're not at that point. And I don't know if we'll be at that point during my lifetime. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:06:31
And so you can't let go of that. The idea that like, this, is it and I'm just going to ride the ride I was given? Yeah,

Jules 1:06:40
I mean, I don't know. I think grief is a healthy feeling, to some extent. Like, I think grief comes from love, right? Like, it wouldn't be a loss if we didn't, like love what we're losing. So I tried to think of it like that as like, it's unnecessary. And like, it's kind of like a hopeful feeling, too, I think, in a way. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:06:59
Okay. So are you not able to just say, like, this is it like, there's this, like, society is under mankind is under a slow progression? This is the piece of it that we get? And like, because that's how I think of it, I think, like, how cool is it, that when I was your age, right, like, computers were just like, barely valuable in people's lives. Or that, you know, like, cell phones, like, I'm, I have this thing, you have a thing, right? It's got more computing power than the thing we sent the first space shuttle into space with, like, that's, that's crazy. And, and I'm getting to see all this. I have said this, Joseph, maybe you'll find this interesting. I once said to somebody, I would give away the last 10 years of my life, to come back for one year, every 100 years. Just just just like if I'm gonna die at 75, let me die at 65. But 100 years from then I get to come back for 12 months. And then 100. Like, I would love to see what happens. And I think that's an existential problem. Like, like, that's just the, that's hard to regulate, like, and if I guess if you're, I guess if you're having difficulties already, like, do those thoughts become intrusive, and you can't get rid of them? What happens there for you? Well, I

Jules 1:08:28
guess that's a really cool idea. I thought I would love to come back for a year. 100 years from now, no, but what I think about a lot as I think, like, in 2021, I was experiencing this a lot. It's really hard to kind of conceptualize, like, all of the ways that oppression, it's hard to like sit with all the ways that oppression has affected me and not like, like, not lose myself in it. Because I think a lot about like, I'm a disabled adult, and that affects like, every aspect of my life and right like being a diabetic. I'm about to turn 26 There's, like always that fear of like, what will my health insurance look like in a year? And I kind of forgot where I was going with this. Actually,

Scott Benner 1:09:14
let me let me say this and see if it comes back to you. I think that we are not capable yet. Humans of taking in as much information as is currently available to us. And you're trying to process more than your brain was meant to do. Like you are not supposed to know what's happening to the people in Sub Saharan Africa right now. You're not supposed to know about that. That's the thing happening to them. They're in an ecosystem. That's almost all of themselves. We invent travel. Right? So now you can go to places and see what's happening somewhere else. Okay, fair enough. But that's still linear, right? You have to go there. Stay there be involved in it, you either decide to stay and now you're a part of it or you decide to leave and it's gone. Again, you don't know about it anymore. But now, we know. In the course of any day, you know about every lawsuit, every company that's done something wrong, you know about every person who was shot today, you know about every, you know, the homeless statistics, you know, the statistics about fentanyl. You know that there's a cartel here doing this, and you know, that they're, you know, there's homelessness here and you hear about oh, in California, there's encampments. And God, that's terrible, all those homeless people. You're not meant to figure those things out. And but now you're trying to, and that, that's overwhelming.

Jules 1:10:45
It absolutely is. Yeah, yeah. And I think like, really, the crux of it is that, like you know about all these things, but you don't have the power to make it better.

Scott Benner 1:10:53
Well, you have two options, right, you can either dead, or you can either pick a thing and dedicate your life to trying to help it which you which, which, I don't know if that would take away your concerns about everything else. Or you do what what adults end up doing, which is just saying, like, I have no agency over that. It's not a thing I can concern myself with. And, and, and say, I'll tell you how I make myself right with it. The planet has been here for much longer than we know. And we're all here. So basically, if I do nothing, everything's still gonna be okay. And what is okay, okay, is whatever's going to happen, because we don't have that much sway over it to begin with. You take things like, like, like, there's one person who might tell you like, oh, slavery, that's over. But then another person might say to you, Well, no, they're slavery all over the world. Still, that's true. I that's terrible. There are girls and boys right now who are imprisoned in places to sex slaves. That's a real thing that happens in 2020 30. You and I can't do anything about that. Like, are you could you could go find a foundation who works on that and put your, put your acid to it, and just put all your effort into it and try to help it. But and you you should. But if you want to, but you have to let go of the idea that you can impact all of these things. And that, because I mean, that I mean, I was just gonna be political and say like, it'll make you crazy. Right. Right. Like, like, if you really look at all the things that are wrong. It if you can't say to yourself, time will eventually smooth this out. Or it won't. But I hope it does. You know, and I'm going to just, I don't want to say something stupid, but like think globally, act locally, right? Like, I'm going to live the best life I can. And that's how I think of it like, I'm going to do what I think is right. And I hope that that has a ripple. And hopefully that ripple will impact people. And it can do it personally. Like it's impacted my children. And hopefully they'll do that, you know, so now maybe it'll be more like skipping stones, and my ripple will create another ripple, and maybe it'll reach farther. But I don't know, like, you're, you're a lovely person. And I hate to think of you out there trying to figure out space travel and homelessness. Because those are, those are big ideas. You know, I don't know like is, do you know that intellectually?

Jules 1:13:32
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's something like as I've kind of, like, I don't want to say grown up, I don't feel grown up. But as I've like, transitioned to my 20s, I think that's something I've been kind of reconciling with is like, I really like I, I can't fix it all as much as I want to you. i It honestly, like, it feels like I can't even do that much at all. Because a lot of like mutual aid work that goes on around me is like, requires you to either like donate money or to like donate labor. And I don't really have like either of those to be able to donate. And so I think like, that's something I've been kind of reconciling with too, is that like, there are ways I can make an impact. And I think like the way that I kind of think about that is just kind of like, affirming the value of every human life feels like the biggest impact that I can have. I've just been like, treating everyone as if they're so important, because they are and like doing what I can to kind of like support the people who are in my life. Right? Even if that's just giving them a ride to the doctor, you know, your art.

Scott Benner 1:14:34
And you're in the city, right? You're in Philly? Yeah, I mean, you could, you could volunteer at a shelter. You could you could ladle soup, you could do a lot of things that would actually physically help somebody in that moment. And maybe that would make maybe that would make you feel better, you know, like to be physically doing something. There's this thing that that listen, there's two things here I want to talk So when I was younger, I was idealistic, like anybody else. And you'd look at older people and you say, Oh, they don't care, they care about their money, and they care about their retirement. They're not thinking about the world anymore. But but as I gotten older, I thought, well, that is true for some people. But there are other people who have just seen the writing on the wall, so many times that they're like, I'm gonna stop banging my head into this wall, like, this is how this goes, I don't seem to have any impact on this. And it's not that they don't care about it, they let it go. My wife and I always said that a good measure of ourselves will be as we become more successful as we get older, do we stick to the values that we had when we were younger? And we've we've done that, but my perspective is different. You know, being like, big, there's a moment in our conversation where you said, like, you know, if homeless people just had a home, like, and I thought, yeah, that makes total sense. I talked about having structure around you and everything. But you know, there are plenty of people are going to hear that and go, Hey, if you want a house, get a job and buy it. And like and so when those are those, like those two kinds of feelings, the middle is the utopia, like drawing everybody into the middle, so everybody can see everybody side is how you end up at Star Trek. It Right. And, you know, I, I've used this example before, but somebody I know, like kind of periphery. We're talking about the hurricanes that now happened, like 15 years ago in in New Orleans. And this person said to me, Well, why didn't they leave? And I responded, and I said, Can you imagine for the want of a car not being able to save your own life? Or, or $50 to get on a bus and just say, hey, go go that way. You know, I was, like I said, some of those people are in such a state, they couldn't even afford or conceive of how to save their own life. Like for an amount of money, you might go to a restaurant, and blow tonight on a meal for a couple of people, they could have got away. And instead you're watching them standing on the roof hoping for a helicopter come to them and your responses. Why didn't they leave? Like that? That's productive, you know? And, but I get what he's saying, like, and because then as I made that point to him, and he said, Well, yeah, man, but I went to high school and I paid attention, I went to college, and I paid attention. And I got a job that didn't pay anything. And I worked hard at it, and I moved up. And I'm like, I see where he's coming from. And but I responded with, some of these people are involved in what would be generational poverty. Like they don't, they have no pathway, there's no light in front of them, they don't know where to go, you know, their expectations are so low, I think that they, they can't even conceive of how to get out of this. And you have now a decision to make, you could you could see their situation. And even if it's honest, not be so harsh, or you could choose to be more generous with your interpretation of their situation, and help them you know, but but tools I want to, but what I wanted to tell you is that social media has, here's, here's your perspective, for the reason I told you the first story, so I can tell you this, right, like, I have a different perspective than I did when I was young. And one of the perspectives I have is of people your age and younger, who think that putting something on Instagram is advocacy, or that they're changing the world with a picture or by putting up a quote or something like that, that they're going to they're going to create this ripple, you know, five likes at a time. And, and I'm going to tell you that it'll make you feel good. And you will be signaling to the world that you think in a generous way about this. I don't know how much it helps anything. Because in the end, the people with the money still make the decisions. That makes sense, Jules what I'm saying?

Jules 1:19:05
Yes, yeah, that's something I like think about sometimes, too. Yeah, cuz I mean, sometimes I think it's like a performance almost.

Scott Benner 1:19:14
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's virtue signaling. They're just like, look, I think I think the right thing, I'm okay. You know, and, and it's funny because I'm a person. I think you would think if you and I sat down privately and talked about a ton of different social issues could be like, Hey, I think Scott's on the right side of a lot of this stuff. I don't spend any time telling people how I feel about it. I just do it. You know, like, I made this podcast to help people and it and it does, and great. I don't spend a lot of time telling people that I made a podcast that help people I just keep making the podcast. And that's why I wondered for you, if actually walking out side and do winging a thing doesn't really matter what it is. Like if you wouldn't feel more grounded to reality that way, like, like, step away from your phone kind of an idea. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're already a person in your situation, right? Like, go back over it, you describe being depressed as a kid, you get these headaches, it turns into bipolar, you've got you're not sure that that's your actual diagnosis, you think you you have some autism leanings, and you get type one diabetes, that's a lot of shit that happened to a person, right? And then on top of that, all of your input is telling you that the world is not right. And you have to fix it, and you have no pathway to fix it. I wouldn't want to live like that. That would that would be that would be painful. You know, I don't know if that's helpful or not. But it's just, those are the things I wanted to tell you. So yeah,

Jules 1:20:56
yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think like what I've been working on in the last few months is really focusing in on like, what do I have agency to do as a person? Yeah. Yeah. Like, this might sound silly, but I want to plant flowers this year. And that, like feels like a way that I can like, make the world a little bit better, to

Scott Benner 1:21:13
great idea, that absolutely terrific idea. And put yourself in charge of being responsible for them. I find, I find that, that caring for something that has no real need, meaning it can't, it can't tell me like you screwed up. But I still treat it but I still treat it like it's the most important thing in the world. I think that's helpful. I also think, I don't know if this is connected or not. But people I keep cactuses. Not a lot of them. I have a few of them. And I've had people tell me like the other bland like, there's no flowers, and they grow so slow. And I said yeah, I think cactus is teach me patience. And the explanation to that is, they grow so slow, and they need so little from you. But you're still responsible for it. And, and you learn to look at that thing once a year and say to yourself, oh my god, it grew a half an inch. And that, and that feels like a real accomplishment. Like, I can't, I don't I mean, I kept this thing alive long enough, and it grew a half an inch. And and most people would say, well, that sucks. Like, it's a half an inch, I want it to grow three feet, or I want it to be huge. I wanted. And I say no, I say that's what that thing wants. And that's what it needs. And I'm facilitating it. I don't know, I swear to you that having a cactus has made me a more patient person. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Because I want to see I want to see it. Blossom. When it takes a lot of time. And that's okay. Yeah, and I think that's part of what has you flummoxed is that you want things you want it to be 300 years from now right now. And that's not going to happen. And you don't have a way of making that okay for yourself. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. You also said rage. That it was like a hammer was like a half an hour ago, Jules, but I know I'm keeping you longer than I said I would but I have like 15 more minutes if you do like what's rage feel like?

Jules 1:23:28
I actually wrote a poem about this recently. It feels like lava bubbling up inside of me. Like it feels so like visceral. But I think it kind of is the same. Kind of like origin of the grief. I think it's just like a different side of it. Of like, yeah, like I feel a lot of rage about like all the people who have power in the world who are like deciding to like harm other people.

Scott Benner 1:23:55
Just let it out.

Jules 1:23:58
No, not really, you

Scott Benner 1:24:00
should hit something not a person. Like Like, like a thing. Like Like, are you You didn't you haven't mentioned it yet. But do you have any like athletic leanings? I used

Jules 1:24:10
to it's just been really hard in the past like year or so. I haven't mentioned this yet, but but I had COVID in July last year since then. I've had like crazy fatigue.

Scott Benner 1:24:20
Yeah, I had it I had an October kick my ass for a while was not Yeah. Okay, so we'll talk about that in a second but let it out some out. I mean, yell into a pillow. Go for a walk. Like seriously like hit a heavy go to a gym you're in Philly, there's got to be a boxing gym somewhere go into a corner hit a bag for 15 minutes and leave like like some way to like, because that's one of those things where I don't know like how far down this rabbit hole we get. But you know, like you hear people talk about like, you know, it was it was big for a while to talk about toxic masculinity Right? Like how guys are like, but like, you know, I'm Guy and it needs to come out sometimes, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes you just have all this, like, testosterone and this feeling of responsibility. And this idea that you're supposed to be taking care of things and like all that stuff builds up. And then we like we live a lifestyle where nobody lets it out. And the more you're gonna be like, there's, you know, that's, I think that's why you hear people talk. So like, lovingly about hunting, and fishing and football and like the things where they can just go be an animal for a while, and it's, and it's a release, you know? And if you can, if you're constantly modulating yourself and telling yourself, these are not good feelings to have, I think then you're kind of denying, like, the physiology of yourself, like, right, like, this is how I feel like, I'm not a bad guy. I'm not going to go out and punch somebody in the face for no reason. But I do need this out of me. I think I think about it that way. Sometimes. I wonder if you couldn't find a way to let it out? Yeah, you know, yeah,

Jules 1:26:00
I'm sure there's a way

Scott Benner 1:26:02
Yeah, I mean, you got time figure it out, like try a thing. And if it doesn't work, try another thing. Get a dumbbell and do curls. Like in your apartment, you know, the mean, or wherever you live? Just like, like, put effort into something like I think sometimes just good, honest. Exercise is a good reliever for depression. And a lot of those feelings, too. I don't know. Yeah. lean into it instead of the internet. I mean, the opposite. Is there anything we haven't talked about that you wanted to? know? I don't think so. Did I do okay? Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel now? any different than when we began? Honestly, I

Jules 1:26:42
feel really hungry.

Scott Benner 1:26:45
I made you hungry. Just lunchtime. Is your blood sugar. Been Okay. During all this?

Jules 1:26:54
I haven't checked. Yeah, it's all good. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:26:57
cool. That's excellent. Do you get bloodwork done for like the normal stuff? Like do you look for thyroid issues? In your blood work? Do you? You know, do you know where your vitamin D level is? Like those sorts of like things?

Jules 1:27:11
Yeah, definitely. We track all of those things. Good. Good. Oh, that's great.

Scott Benner 1:27:16
I don't know I really very much enjoyed speaking to you. I hope you had a good time. Yeah,

Jules 1:27:21
thank you for taking the time to talk to me. Nice.

Scott Benner 1:27:23
was wonderful. Would you hold on a second? Yeah, thanks.

A huge thanks to Jules for coming on the show and sharing this amazing story with us. And I also want to thank ag one and remind you to drink ag one.com/juicebox. I said earlier, but if you are enjoying the after dark episodes, there are many more of them. You can find them at juicebox podcast.com, or the feature tab of the private Facebook group. As a matter of fact, I'm going to run another afterdark next week. Again, if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe or follow in the audio app you're listening in right now and turn on your automatic downloads so that you don't miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate