#515 Chris Dudley

July 28, 2021Scott Benner

In 1987, Chris joined the Cleveland Cavaliers and became the first person to play in the NBA with Type 1 Diabetes.

www.chrisdudley.org

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to Episode 515 of the Juicebox Podcast.

In the 1987 NBA Draft, the Cleveland Cavaliers chose Chris Dudley. He went on to play 16 seasons for a handful of teams and even made it to the NBA Finals once. He also has type one diabetes, and he runs a camp for kids with type one, called the Chris Dudley foundation. You can learn more about it at Chris dudley.org. Today, Chris and I are going to talk about a ton of stuff playing in the NBA being diagnosed with type one playing in the NBA with type one, what it was like to face Michael Jordan, his camp, and all the other stuff that popped into my head while we were chatting. While you're listening to the show today, I'd love it if you could remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with this.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo hypo Penn. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, I want you to go to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box right now where you can learn more about the Dexcom g six and even get started. It'll be the best decision that you've ever made.

Chris Dudley 2:06
My name is Chris Dudley, from diabetes perspective. I got diabetes in 1981 when I was 16 years old, playing the NBA for 16 years and we started the foundation in the Christopher Reeve Foundation for kids with diabetes in 1994, about 25 years of basketball camp for kids with Type One Diabetes. I kid kids from all over the country all over the world really with that kids from globally. And he just 10 through 16 boys and girls and and we've also done a lot of other outreach for for diabetes as well.

Scott Benner 2:50
Can you think back to when you develop the basketball camp originally? What made you do it?

Chris Dudley 2:57
Yeah, you know, so I so backing up so 1981 and really dating myself here, but it's alright. You know, obviously diabetes was in different different spot. It was who's tough. And when you got diagnosed with diabetes, it it was a you know, I tell story that the first thing I asked the doctor is am I gonna live. And by that I didn't mean next week or whatever. But how long? What does this mean? Because at that time, it meant a shortened lifespan. So it was, you know, it just rocked my world. And then it was of course what I still be able to play basketball and got the affirmative on both which which wasn't always the case back then. Sometimes they discouraged athletics activity because of the risk of of getting low blood sugars. And so fortunately, that was changing. That's when studies were coming out and saying activity was good for your overall health, your blood control. seems obvious now but at the time, it was a it was a concern. And so So anyway, fast forward and go through high school, go through college make it into the league, I was the first and only player to play at that time in the NBA with Type One Diabetes. And it was I was almost you almost didn't want to let anybody know I did. But yeah, I really wanted to establish myself as an NBA player and have diabetes kind of be an afterthought versus should we sign this guy because we don't know we can make it right. Once I prove that and and more people became aware that I had in the diet in the diabetes community that I had diabetes, I get a lot of letters from kids or parents. How do you do it? How do you What's your game day route? What do you what do you eat? What kind of insulin? How do you how do you play an activity with with having with while having diabetes. And so I'd always been asked about doing it. Most pro players are about doing a basketball camp get involved with camp. And so my wife, my wife, and I came up with the idea with squids combiner and which have a have a camp for, for for kids with diabetes. And so the long winded answer is that it was really the Genesis was really the outreach from kids and parents asking, you know, and just realizing what a need there was for

Scott Benner 5:40
right. Wait at that time. So, so you're diagnosed in high school? Imagine you're playing in high school, you go to college and play. Is it? Are you just like using regular mph? Did you just kind of shooting insulin in the morning and an evening and kind of eating on a schedule?

Chris Dudley 5:55
Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I think I started off doing that. And then at some point, pretty soon after I went to the mall, I shot a day. Okay, are you taking a shot before? Before every meal?

Scott Benner 6:14
They call it fruit? Now you're getting basil once on a meal mealtime ends? Yes. Did you test very frequently.

Chris Dudley 6:19
I did. You know sometimes better than sometimes more than others. But with with playing with playing sports, you really felt like I had to write. And you know, on game days,

Scott Benner 6:33
I would test as many as 16 times on game day just to really have it dialed in. Right. And so did you. Looking back? I'm assuming now you manage differently. You have a pumper. You still MDI?

Chris Dudley 6:46
I do net. So now I have the Omni pod. So I have the pump. And then I have Dexcom Dexcom. So

Scott Benner 6:55
So now you have a real vision into what's happening. Like looking back. Were you playing at an elevated blood sugar? Or do you not even know? Yes, yeah.

Chris Dudley 7:02
Yes. I think it definitely was. Because, you know, if you're playing, you know, practice is one thing but a games another. If you're playing in front of 20,000 people, you're more worried about going Whoa, going on? Yeah. So So yeah, I definitely do and I would. Looking back, I would have loved to have had a Dexcom or something. I mean, I'd love pump too. But just to know what my blood sugar was doing? Would have been in nano kidding.

Scott Benner 7:33
So I, I asked my son, I was like, what should I ask Chris? When I talked to him? And he was just like, well, you have to ask him what it's like to play against Michael Jordan at some point. And I was like, Okay, I'll see if I'll see if he wants to talk about that. But yes, happy to. Yeah, no kidding. But But staying into the diabetes for a second longer. If you're elevated, like, do you think you were at a deficit? Yes, no kidding. I

Chris Dudley 7:59
do. I think, you know, I took a lot of pride in I never wanted to miss game because the diabetes, I really never wanted diabetes to be an issue. And I felt like, you know, right or wrong, I felt like an almost an obligation for those in the community to show you know, diabetes isn't going to prevent me from from playing and show that you can play in the NBA and, and I felt like I established that early in my career where a couple years where I think I played all 82 games, or if I missed a game. I never missed a game because diabetes. But in doing so. I also know that there was times that I was either worked, you know, borderline wlos. or certainly it may be higher blood sugar. And there were plenty of times you know, I joke around with kids that you know that I never missed a game. But there were plenty of games where I had I was running up and down the court having drank three cans of apple juice or something to get my blood sugar up, right. So it wasn't wasn't always easy. And I think it would have been a lot easier or better today to kind of be a little bit tighter control right? With all the technology and not to mention the speed of insulin increased in in the 90s right it keeps it keeps improving but there was a rapid when we went from Oh, wait from that regular human log or whatever it really Yeah, it really helped.

Scott Benner 9:41
Did the coaches and players know I mean, and by No, I mean, what did you play with some people who flat out didn't know you had diabetes? And did you play with people who knew but didn't pay any attention to it?

Chris Dudley 9:53
Um, well, everybody would have known I think, but there might have been some Who just didn't pay attention?

Scott Benner 10:05
Right? Well wouldn't even understand I would imagine to.

Chris Dudley 10:07
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm testing my blood sugar in the locker room before we're going out. And so I mean, it wasn't like, so they would know that the person who had to really know and be dialed in was the train trainer, of course. And with coaches, they knew, but I really didn't want them to have to think about it. Think about it. Yeah, that wasn't there. That was on me and the trainer to do that to be ready, when when your number's called. And

Scott Benner 10:35
the fear there is that if they feel like there's a weakness, then there's a reason to put somebody else out there instead of you. Whether it's diabetes or anything. Right, right. Yeah. Okay. Wow. That's a lot of pressure. How did you do that for 16 years?

Chris Dudley 10:49
Well, yeah, you just get in a routine. I mean, it just becomes your Yeah, you're kind of your way of life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think with the coaches, and let me differentiate. In case we have any younger listeners or players is that a number one in the NBA, you have a full training staff. And so having that relationship with the trainer takes that pressure off if you're in high school, or, or younger, or club basketball, or whatever the coach has to know. And be very, very aware of it, right? Because there is no trainer. There's no intermediary.

Scott Benner 11:28
Yeah, so it's you and your parents. Exactly. There still is that pressure, my daughter's going to be 17 this summer, but when she was younger, she played softball, like fairly competitively, meaning that they were like a winner. So away from going to the Little League World Series when she was 12. And she only had one bad low while she was playing. And it was enough, she was at third base. And the inning ended and she gestured to me came through the dugout and said something's wrong. Like that's all she said. And she had a low that was in the 30s and 40s, it took a while to come back up again. But when her bat rolled around, even it like back then 10 1112 years old, I think she felt pressured to go hit because she did not want anybody to think that this was gonna stop her from doing that. And I don't, I'll never get into her head as to why. But I watched her go hit with a blood sugar that was maybe only 70 and had just started coming up and she fought through it, but you could tell something was wrong with her. I wish she was a little older when that happened. So I could talk to her about it. But

Chris Dudley 12:32
and you know, the thing that and that's great point in that. What's tough, too is is you know, with with diabetes is you get that well and yes, you can recover in your blood sugar's back up to 70 and going higher and getting to get to 100. But you still don't feel right, right, you know that the low blood sugar can throw off it, I've found that even exercise now that you know, a kind of a giveaway for me that my blood sugar is going down? Or is my balance is off. I just don't have the same. I can just feel it physically. So it's to your earlier question. Yes, you can you can make it you can play and but but there are, it does affect you. I don't

Scott Benner 13:14
know if you'll want to answer this. But is there ever a time where you're running down the court thinking I shouldn't be out here?

Chris Dudley 13:20
Ah, there was times where I was like, I need a timeout.

Scott Benner 13:27
Somebody foul somebody, I just want to know that you found somebody one time to get a break. That's

Chris Dudley 13:33
well, you know that well. And the thing is, and again, everybody as diabetes knows this is what's so hard about it with playing is or can be difficult is that you're by you still have everything else that everybody else is going through, right. I mean, either we play 82 games, there's times where you have a cold or you don't feel great or you can get a good night's sleep, and it's hard sometimes to differentiate, I feel off is my blood sugar. So when I say I want to timeout it's not always that someone was saying I need to test to make sure because I was I didn't have that confidence that that I was not that I was maybe going in sometimes he tests me like, no, you're fine. It just you just don't feel good. Because people who don't have type one when they feel off their next thought is and I wonder if I have too much insulin I'm about to pass out in front of 35,000 people exactly.

Scott Benner 14:27
Yeah, that's that's a it's a good point. And now would you mind if you know what were your Awan sees when you were playing? Do you have any idea?

Chris Dudley 14:38
They weren't they were two sevens. I tried to get below seven but you know and the ANC is is great in a lot of ways. But the and now we're talking about time and range i think is is more important because with the agency. I would have good agency sometimes but I might have been you know What 50 plus 180? is when you know, I mean, you can,

Scott Benner 15:05
yeah, you can fool the test by having a lot of lows and a lot of highs and seeing it bounce out. I just know that that was the only way that they paid attention to it back then your, your point is 100%, right time and range, less variability. That really is a great measure of health. I was just wondering, I mean, but sevens were, that was probably better than what the ADA was asking for at that point.

Chris Dudley 15:27
Yeah, no, I think so. You know, I, you know, I've worked, I worked hard at it, to try to keep it you know, to stay in range. So,

Scott Benner 15:36
when you're a professional athlete, it just, there's an inference that your body is just that it operates differently than some people's. So do you have to back then were you eating? Like, they like the guys now? Like, the guys now look like superheroes? You know what I mean? Like, you look like a tall man who was athletic when you played like, the guys now look like they could grab you and throw you if they wanted to? Did you eat more specifically? Or was it more like? I don't know, it wasn't like cheeseburgers and basketball, like, what was the vibe? Ah,

Chris Dudley 16:09
it's good. Quiet, you know, that was always a struggle with the, with the trainers and trying to get, they kind of had to balance that out where they would try to get good, it was kind of funny, they would try to get healthy food on the when the planes when you're, when you're traveling or the team meals, and then they found if it was too healthy, kind of like with our kids. It's too healthy. Nobody's going to eat it. And kind of defeats the purpose. So I was, you know, I was aware, but I don't think there was the emphasis that there is today on on what you're eating by

Scott Benner 16:47
on a fine tuning of

Chris Dudley 16:49
what do you know, it's kind of fun. I mean, I played with some guys who did literally like could eat a hamburger before the game and go out and just kill it and you know, kind of laugh about country strong and just right. I mean, what guys are just tremendous athletes. It catches up with the waiter, but they were I couldn't do what they did. But but just I think that's where diabetes, actually is that there are some blessings on diabetes are some advantages and one is you do get to know your body better. And I did go through the process of Alright, what what is my body work better? What type of food is work better with? Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:26
it just occurred to me that over the last couple of decades, as we understand nutrition better, that it doesn't just happen overnight that there is a transition of talking generations into believing differently. And I watched my son's 21 now he plays college baseball, and right up until about a year and a half ago he had that like just here I'll take a handful of this and that and you know you're running out on the field with a doughnut in your mouth almost you know in between games and now as he's getting into 21 years old, he's like, I don't think I should be eating this and I was like yeah, I don't think so either and he doesn't have type one my daughter does but it's just very interesting to see that happen in my mind like you know you always your your head goes to ideas of you know, old baseball players playing you know, with hangovers and stuff like that and and being the best. Alright, so I just have to ask you,

Unknown Speaker 18:21
Jordan,

Scott Benner 18:23
just the so much better at the time than everyone else, or it still stacks up today.

Chris Dudley 18:30
It still stacks up today he to me he's the best player ever.

Scott Benner 18:42
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My daughter turned 17 years old yesterday. She got her driver's license, gave her a cupcake and we went out to dinner. When she woke up this morning. She went to the beach with her brother and some friends. Just like most 17 year olds, she slept in a little bit in the morning and got up but not quite enough time to eat before she went to the beach. She got a car. They drove to the shore. They spent a few hours on the beach and they came home the entire time. I could see Arden's blood sugar on my phone. Why is that? Well, it's because Arden's wearing the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor my wife and I could both see Arden's blood sugar on our iPhones. And if we had Android phones, we could see it there as well. Arden can share her numbers with up to 10 followers. And so can you dexcom.com forward slash juice box. One point I sent Arden a text that said just this was that food. And what I was talking about was that I saw her blood sugar kind of go from 191 30. And she said, No. And I said hydrate and Bolus. And she did. And that was that dexcom.com forward slash juice box, the speed and direction of the blood sugar are available at your fingertips on your iPhone, your Android, or you can use the Dexcom receiver. So if you're the person with type one, and you don't want to look at it on your phone, you could use the receiver or you can use your cell phone, the apps are terrific. And sharing with other people is amazing. Seeing your blood sugar, and the speed it's moving in. That's life changing. Please take a second, Get started today. With the Dexcom you will not be sorry. If you're using insulin, seeing your blood sugar in real time is about the best thing that could happen. It allows you to make these great decisions with insulin and with food. And you get to see if things are going right or wrong. So next time, you can say to yourself, Oh, you know what did a unit for that went up to 140 and kind of sat there corrected later with a unit. Maybe next time I'll use two units for that. I don't know something like that. These are made up numbers. But you get what I'm saying right? You see what happens cause and effect, and you get to make better decisions next time. The links in the show notes of your podcast buyer will take you there. The links at Juicebox Podcast comm will take you there but you can always just type it in dexcom.com forward slash juicebox g vo glucagon comm forward slash juicebox. And don't forget he's not a sponsor. But he's doing such a great job on the show today, Chris dudley.org All right. Let's get back to Chris and the story about Michael Jordan. Just like how I let him answer the question I'm do a cliffhanger on you. Bet you weren't expecting that.

Chris Dudley 22:39
I was fortunate I got when I was in college, I went down to work jobs at the basketball camps down at UNC where Jordan went and he would play during summer so I got to play with him during the summer. And then obviously my he's a couple years older than I am but I was played mostly during his time and had a lot of when I was a kid when we played the ball a couple times early in the playoffs. And what Jordan Jordan to me was, you know wasn't is the best player to play again.

Scott Benner 23:16
Yeah, I saw my my son tries to make the point that even the fifth guy on a bad team is incredibly athletic now, and I try to read like I try to retell the best I can I always go to the one story where I tell him. I was watching the game one day and and Michael Jordan turned his ankle completely over, like his foot went underneath of his leg and it was bent sideways and you thought for sure he'd never walk again. And he stood up and hobbled, hobbled, hobbled, hobbled and then ran. And I was like, I don't understand. You know, you ever see Reggie White's knee hyperextend. And then he leaves. It's an amazing video, his knee goes backwards. The way it's supposed to go forwards he leaves the field. If you're a Philadelphia fan, you think I'm never gonna see Reggie white again. And two plays later. He's back out there playing. And I'm just like, I don't understand how that happens. Like now some people just get amazing gifts, you know, physical gifts like that. So you bring him back right now. 25 years old, drop him in the league. He's the best player in the league squared. Really? No kidding. So how do you keep up with that? When you're like when you're everyone else? What's the plan?

Chris Dudley 24:26
It's hard enough. And I think the game has changed, but it was a different. I mean, there's some things that are better today. Probably they're they're definitely the skill level has gone up as far as the outside. There's such a premium on outside shooting. That has definitely changed but the game then was so much more physical. So the counter argument to is could some of the guys today be as successful. Back then, back then, if they're getting ready every time they go. They're laying there. Someone's punching him in the ribs. said they're getting in touch. So, you know, that's so funny you said it's just a different deal. And I do think the one and we've we've kind of touched on it. One huge advantage you have today that would have played out for guys back then is, is the nutrition, the strength, medical, they don't play the same. They take off back to backs they rest more they it's just a it was more of a grind even more of a grind back. Especially in especially when it first came in the week than it than it is today. It's it's a little bit and part of it is the dollars that have gone. Gone into it that are in the league. I think there was a an article about LeBron, and that he spends, I don't know, was close to a million dollars on someone. Massage and nutritionists and cook and this and that. And for good reason. I mean, he's unbelievable. Yeah, he's a freak of nature. And he takes he, he works at it. And so I think that's changed to an extent. It's helped.

Scott Benner 26:09
I guess it's sort of the way people drive a show car. You only take it out on Sundays when it's sunny driving a little slower. And you you played in a time where they're like, Listen, we're driving you every day until you fall apart. Even someone else will come. But even the length of your career. Was that even uncommon back then?

Chris Dudley 26:29
Yeah, no, it's, well, you know, the average. I mean, some guys do it. But the average in the league is three, three years. So there's a lot of turnover. And if you get past 10 Yeah, it was definitely uncommon. You're, it'll be unseen today, because guys come out earlier. So they start younger. When I when I played, there were some players that came direct or a couple years in, but even Michael Jordan was a junior when he came into the league, a junior in college, right? So they're younger. So it'll be just, it will be interesting to see if they go, they can go as long

Scott Benner 27:12
or not. was their club like did you know Ron Santo and Bobby Clarke? Like, did you have a mean? Like, did you guys know? Yeah, or No, those

Chris Dudley 27:20
were my heroes, but I really didn't know him. Okay. And so I was well, where I grew up in. I lived in Philly till I was 12. And so I was a big fan of the Broad Street Broad Street boys. Philadelphia Flyers went back to back Stanley Cups in the 70s. So I was huge Bobby card pant, before I got diabetes. And so when I found out he had diabetes, that was huge for me, and very

Scott Benner 27:45
inspirational. So I grew up in Bucks County, right outside of the Northeast. And okay, and I have to tell you, when I found out Bobby Clarke had type one diabetes, it was only like 10 years ago. And then you think back to how he played. And I don't even understand, that doesn't even make any sense, you know? But I guess it was a different time. I don't know Sam fold is. He's a GM of the Phillies now. But when he was on the podcast, he just told me when I was playing, if you saw me in the outfield chewing gum, I was lower. I thought I was low. And if I was chewing seeds, I thought I was okay. That was like, the extent of what he would do. You know, it's, it's really fascinating.

Chris Dudley 28:22
Well, I remember when I was a kid here in it, the flyers practice would have they'd always have orange juice and like a chocolate bar over on the bench.

Scott Benner 28:29
And that was forgotten. Yeah, that's crazy. It really is. Okay, so how do people find out about the foundation? And what do you want from them? You want them to learn about it? You want him to donate to it? You want him to come out to a to an event? What is it you're trying to do? And how are you handling this with COVID?

Chris Dudley 28:48
Well, so Chris, God, we got to work. Look up the foundation. And and obviously, we're nonprofit and we always accept donations. Because we're putting on camp every year with this would last year would have been the 25th this would be the 26. Last year we held camp, but it was virtual. So and unfortunately this year, we're back doing the same it's either virtual or we may try to do a couple I may go to different spots and meet with kids a few different places. We're trying we're looking into doing that. But we just couldn't hold camp this year because because the COVID because of the restrictions that are in place now. And it just it really breaks our heart that we can't do it the camps normally indoors or outdoors. Outdoors so it's uh you know, back east and you got the Poconos

Scott Benner 29:56
night. Sure.

Chris Dudley 29:57
So the camps up there. It This is Kind of that kind of setting. Okay, and it's an outdoor with bunkhouses outdoor courts, swimming pool rolling hills and you know volleyball court and so it's great. It's a great outdoor bunkhouse kind of what which kind of envision camp? Right.

Scott Benner 30:17
That's amazing. I have more questions if you have time. Yeah, I do. So do you have any other autoimmune issues? thyroid, celiac.

Chris Dudley 30:28
I've been on a thyroid. I take a thyroid, blanking on the name right now but I took a thyroid pill every morning centroid centroid Thank you. No problem. Yep.

Scott Benner 30:39
How long? When were you diagnosed with that? And is it hashimotos? Or is it hypothyroidism? Do you know is it autoimmune or is that? Not?

Chris Dudley 30:48
I think it's hypo. I don't think I think it's the latter. I think it's a I've been on a you know, probably 15 years. I think maybe more than that. I just know, I've been taking this for forever. And it's been with just taking the one pill every morning. I've been.

Scott Benner 31:06
It's been good. So after you got on playing this happen?

Chris Dudley 31:11
You know, that's quick question. I don't even Yeah, I think it was right after it.

Scott Benner 31:14
Okay, when I say Yeah. And do you remember? Where you lithologic hair falling out? Like, do you remember what led you to it? Or just the blood test caught it?

Chris Dudley 31:23
It was just a blood test. They just said you're a little either a little higher, a little? Well, whatever it was, right? We recommend this bill. No kidding. So that's what I have. Other net? No, we have a number of kids at Camp who have celiac. And yeah, different than we would have some diet, things that we do a camp for kids.

Scott Benner 31:48
Yeah, there's there's definitely an increased occurrence of things like that even low vitamin D seems to be really common with people with type one. It's just it's interesting that I like to ask people how about in your family line? any other type one in your line?

Chris Dudley 32:04
Yeah, my uncle. So my father's brother had diabetes passed away now. But he had diabetes from a young kid on so my father when I had to sit and I had the classic symptoms, you know, being incredibly thirsty and having to go to the bathroom and he caught it earlier than probably normally would have. Because of my uncle. And I went went to the drugstore got the I think it was called test tape back then and

Scott Benner 32:34
peed on it. Right? Yeah. Different world that you got on you that fell on your cell phone? What your blood sugar? I know, it's such a different world. Yeah. And it really is something because you live through and had diabetes through a couple of leaps. You went from one insulin to another kind of insulin, you went from one testing to another time. And now this would you? If they told you that they could implant cells in you that would start making insulin again and give you a medication that would stop your body from killing the cells? You would do it? Or would you not? That's good question. What are the side effects? Yeah, right. Well, that's the obvious first question, but I don't know. I'm just my bigger question is as somebody who's lived for this many decades with type one, are you looking to get rid of it? Or do you not think about it like that anymore?

Chris Dudley 33:29
Um, I'd loved it for there to be a cure. And I have to say I'd love there to be a cure not so much for me, but for the kids and for others, because I've learned to live with it. And so it's But yeah, I mean, when my way is, you know, technology is great when it works right when when you get a bad you're in a meeting and the pumps goes bad are you I don't know if the what device you're on. But if you've gone through the doorway, and you've caught your pod on your you know, whatever, or you're on the plane and all of a sudden it's like bad pie, you know, all that stuff that the the nav, I think the toughest part is just the 24 seven of it that you just don't get a break. So yeah, I'd like to be certainly would want there to be a cure. But but but again, I would rather you know, kind of tell I don't think the kids at my camp, I don't know that they're going to live through their whole life with having diabetes. I think we're getting closer and closer. It's amazing. I

Scott Benner 34:33
had there was a gentleman on a couple months ago and there's this drug that right now when you get diagnosed, if they catch you early enough, they put you on this drug and it can hold off the onset for like years. It's fabulous. You know,

Chris Dudley 34:46
in fact I'm involved with a company here up in Oregon that's working on. We have tests a screen that will show Are you at risk of getting Are you going to get Type One wind. Yeah, if you and and before used to be. And they've been trying to do the screen. And this is a much quicker, easier test and what's now where you got it, you got to do it, send it back to the web and wait a couple weeks or whatever get the results. Before it was in I talked with my wife about this, you didn't necessarily want to give the test to your kids when they were young, because they're going to get, you know, take blood and all that. But because there was nothing you could do about it. Now you can do something about it. So that's very, very exciting that you can

Scott Benner 35:33
Are you talking about trialnet? Yeah, sure. They were on recently to a lot of people were they Yeah,

Chris Dudley 35:39
yeah. So trial net, and knowing it's a much bigger their, their pitch for people to get tested is completely different now than it was even just a couple years ago. Because now you have something that you can actually enter was thoughts that you could do certain things, give a little insulin do certain things to kind of prevent it before. But now we know concretely that you can postpone it, which is, which is awesome news.

Scott Benner 36:06
It's amazing. Technology. It's it's some of this newer stuff is the closest stuff I've seen, that seems like it's you uses science that we understand now. And that it feels like it has like an endpoint. It's not just like, we're gonna try this and see where we get to. It's really cool. And But with that, you know, I

Chris Dudley 36:24
think it's I think we're getting so much closer and closer, closer, but you also don't want to be you still got to deal with the diabetes. And you still you don't want to give newly diagnosed

Scott Benner 36:37
people the feeling that they don't have to take care of themselves, because it's gonna go away. Yeah, I tell my daughter, look, I lived with the hope that somebody will figure this out. But I don't expect it. I guess that's the difference. Like I hope but I don't expect my daughter's a once he's been in the mid fives for seven years. Now. She doesn't have any dietary restrictions. Like we've like this podcast, what we usually talk about is how to use insulin in ways that keep you you know, from spiking and having problems like that blank screen. Yeah, it's very cool. But at the same time, I like knowing that people are out there working on this stuff. It's interesting. No, I

Chris Dudley 37:15
do too. And I just throw that caveat, not not to be negative. But it's I remember parents telling me and this is your 20 years ago, or even when I was hanging on, so it was like, well, there's probably going to be five or 10 years. You know, and that was just that's what they said. Yeah. Yeah. So so it's like, yeah, I think we're getting in worthy. Whether there's going to be the magic pill kind of cure with no side effects. And I don't know if they're, or it's just gonna be the technology just gets better, better better. And we're on the closed loop system, or whatever it

Scott Benner 37:52
might be. It's just getting so much better. My daughter's using an algorithm and I have to tell you that we were really good at it prior and there's things to learn when you're using an algorithm adjustments you have to make but I have not slept so well as as I have since she's been on that it to see the algorithm take away basil to stop like, drifting low blood sugar is amazing. And it just it unless you really mess up overnight. She doesn't get low

Chris Dudley 38:20
overnight. And would you mind me asking what kind of what are you guys using? Yeah, Riley wink or anything like that. So she's,

Scott Benner 38:28
she's looping right now. Yeah, so she loops with an omni pod, a Dexcom. And we actually use the orange link. It's a new link that came out that seems more stable for us. But I'm excited to try on the pot five, because it eliminates the link. And it eliminates the need for me to understand how to build an app and keep it on our phone and things like that. And she's going to be heading off to college soon. So I would like it to be more retail, I guess. And on the orange, how is orange different than the Riley's? Yeah, I don't honestly know. I just bought her Riley link was Boston up because she drops it all the time. And and I went to buy a new one. And I bought the orange one to try it. And I'll just tell you that. I just told somebody this in the podcast the other day, but I am in a two story house. And Arden was in the dining room with my wife at the end of the night. She went upstairs with her phone, but forgot the orange link behind but her bedroom is above the dining room. And we never knew it kept it kept the algorithm running the whole time. So yeah, so it's really cool. I mean, and just it's somebody made that that there's a guy somewhere who's like, I'll do this, you know, it's really fascinating, but I am excited to get the Omnipod five and give it a whirl and see how it goes. But yeah, I think algorithms are the future. And I hope everybody who wants one can get one financial Yes. It's really something. Your kids did you ever test your kids?

Chris Dudley 39:55
Ah, yes. And they've no God. I mean No, no, but no diabetes, obviously, and not at risk. Okay. And I

Scott Benner 40:05
guess my last question for you is, because I'm assuming you've been married for a while. He's your wife at all, you're smiling, like as I happen? Is your wife at all involved in your diabetes? Or would you? And to what level? How does that work for you guys?

Chris Dudley 40:22
Well, early on, I mean, she was awesome. And she really dove into kind of understanding that, and you know what diabetes was, and really helping me with diet and diving into that control and making sure it's now you know, a big deal. Obviously, especially before, we've been able to get kind of a tighter control with all the technology we're talking about, but a big deal and even today is worried about low blood sugars when you're driving or different things and really making sure she always made sure I was prepared really helped me with, with with with my diabetes, and not letting me just not forget about it or ignore it. You know, it's great. Because we all go through that emotional, right, I think we all go through it. I know our campers do, but at times where you just want to like, I just don't want to deal with this. But still, she's been awesome. That's absolutely awesome.

Scott Benner 41:26
You know, it's funny, right? About an hour before you and I did this, my daughter's going to school virtually from our house. And I got a notification. So my, my Dexcom is set at 70 and 120. So I got this notification, she was going over 120, which we don't usually see. And I walked in and I was like, what's going on? She goes, Oh, my pod ran out of insulin, I forgot to tell you. And it was just like, like, like a half an hour ago. So he starts drifting up. And that was the thing you were talking about before. I think like, even when you're good at it, and you've been doing it forever. You almost forget the technology, which is a blessing. But at the same time, you know, you see more newly diagnosed people are like, well, I changed my pump at this time. So that it it's ready to be changed. Like you don't do that after a while, you know? No, so she just shut her camera off and stood up and we swapped her pod real quick. And she sat back down and she was on her way again. But yeah, it's a really different world. I don't think that my daughter will ever appreciate how you grew up with diabetes. I don't think she'll have any preference

Chris Dudley 42:21
for no and I, I think rod sail he taught you about Nimrod, Santos. But it's amazing to me that he played a time before testlets. Yeah, it's like, how did you do that? That's just incredible. And, you know, he, someone I didn't hear him tell, but I've heard the story taught of him going up to bat and having double vision and, you know, tell a story. Of course, he just he had to guess which ball to hit. And he hit the right one, and you know, home run or whatever. But it's just, but the fact that what they dealt with people before, even before for myself is amazing. And what he went through is incredibly difficult. And even Bobby Clarke was much more difficult than what I went through is definitely but it got it's gotten better and better and better and better. It's just easier. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:13
baseball does fascinate me too, because it is such a schedule. And when it's when they're not playing, they're traveling. And you hear guys, like, you know, I don't know how far my son's ever gonna go. But he's, he knows guys that play. And some of them stopped playing because of just like the mental fatigue of it. Like they just can't keep up in their heads anymore. He had a friend that was in the White Sox organization. And the guy said, first of all, I got there, and we were all like the exact same athlete, he says, which is really a bummer, because you're not better than anybody all of a sudden, you know, and he goes, and then it's just every day and then on a bus. And he's like it was it was just hard to keep up, you know. But then, like you were saying earlier, then put Type One Diabetes on top of that. It says it's a hell of an accomplishment. It really is. You know, especially, you know, I don't imagine that they see you as I mean, I don't know, but do you really get seen as a person? Are you like a thing that the team owns that they want to work? You know what I mean? Like, are you are you a tool? Or are you a person and how much? How much of that is your problem? And how much of it is theirs? Right?

Chris Dudley 44:15
Yeah. Well, it's I do remember once, early in my career, wait for the I was in New Jersey and Bill Fitz, which coach training camp I was, I was struggling with my control. And I mean, there were times in training camp where I would go with two days, you're just going so hard where I almost didn't take into it. And you're just because a hard what your body's going through. Right. And it was a different day. They don't do that the same way anymore. Sure. But it was brutal. But I remember I was kind of maybe had to sit out and was just having a hard time with it. And he just kind of pulled me aside and said hey, we pay you a lot of money your professor and he was great guy and he Right here for me, but he said, You, we, your professional, we pay a lot of money. Get out of control. Yeah, figure it out. And it was it was a little bit of tough love. And it was, I was like, Okay,

Scott Benner 45:13
how old do you think you are then? We said Jersey is probably 25. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, you know, I guess. I mean, honestly, do you grow up? This? It's got nothing to do with diabetes, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but you emotionally grow up slower? When this is your life? Like when you're doing something like this, it's on a national stage, you're good at it, you're making money? Is there not the need to be mature? through your 20s?

Chris Dudley 45:45
No, no, I mean, I would say. And that's one of the reasons sometimes guys who asked, they don't ask you guys, you kind of, you know, you find out quickly. It's a it's a, it's a job, it's a profession. I mean, it's great. I mean, writing the wrong playing with the best talent in the world playing on TV. It's, it's, it's, it's incredible. But it's a job and the ones you see. And that's why teams always want they want to have a few veterans around, they want the veterans kind of mentor the guy, because the veterans are the ones. Take it cert, you know, they're the ones putting in the time. The successful the most successful players, it's usually not that hard. Obviously, they're incredibly physically gifted, but they're also the ones who put in incredible amounts of time and really treated as a profession. Right. So the answer question, yeah, there are some that are immature, especially when they first come into weed, and kind of falling, you know, have money in your pocket and the attention and all that, but the ones that last are usually turned into a job. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 46:49
It makes a lot of sense. I treat this podcast like a job. I have to be honest. And if I didn't, I mean, these things would seemingly have nothing to do with each other. But if I didn't treat this, like a job, it wouldn't exist the way it does, it would fall apart. Right? It's just, it's crazy. Is there anything I didn't bring up that you were hoping to talk about?

Chris Dudley 47:10
No, I just think with Well, you know, with our foundation, yeah, maybe what I'd like to touch on with the foundation and and you asked earlier, we'd love for people yet to go on or go on our website at Chris duffy.org. And with the camp, and the thing I found is that that the initial thought behind camp was that kids, it'd be awesome to teach kids how to play basketball I have in type one diabetes, and that that is awesome. And some we do and we we teach them about the diabetes we teach them about it's basketball camp. So it's a it's a two in one. It's a regular basketball camp that's wrapped into with diabetes, but the rip, but some of the real value of camp has been getting to know others who are walking in the same shoes. And just how important that is, when I grew up when I got diagnosed 16 sophomore in high school, I really don't think I knew anybody with diabetes that or I didn't have any friends with diabetes. For years I didn't in high school to college, and it can be kind of lonely. I mean, you have friends, but there's certain things you just can't, it's just not the same. And I think that connection that happens there a camp when other kids now our campers, they stay in touch all year, all year long. And they don't with through social media, whatever. But I think that's invaluable, because so often we have, we have a camp, we have on a Thursday night, we have this thing called pass the ball where someone, you go up front, and you kind of talk about something, you hold the ball and pass the next person that comes up. But some of the stories people tell you that breaks your heart of just how alone they are, how they're ostracized for having diabetes, or whatever, whatever it may be, and kind of a teen years are are tough without diabetes, but they can be very tough with diabetes. And so I think that's something for us all to just kind of keep in mind. And that's why I love that you're doing this this podcast. And I love that you're kind of having that stretching the diabetes community, because it's I love talking about I mean, it's helpful to kind of pick your brain you pick, you know, whatever. I think it's so important. So when I say, look, thank you for what you're doing. And you know, that's what we're doing with our campus. Well,

Scott Benner 49:37
I appreciate that. I appreciate that you're doing it. And I'll tell you that when I started this, I really just thought that I was a person who wrote about diabetes. And people would tell me that when they read the stuff they had, you know, better control for the lack of a better way of saying it real quickly. And when I made the podcast, I thought that's what the podcast was going to be about. I just thought it was gonna be about talking about how to use insulin, how to have better outcomes. But I meet people and interview people who love the show, who who already understand how to manage their insulin, and never needed the show for that they needed it to hear another person with diabetes, tell a story, or to realize that other people like them, which is such a trite thing to say, but it's incredibly true. Like, you need to have a community and if you can't find it in person, finding it, you know, like, this is apparently pretty valuable. And I did not expect that. So yeah, it's very cool to be able to bring people together. And I'll tell you, we do i do topics that I don't think most people talk about, there's a woman on here two weeks ago, who's got bipolar disorder and diabetes. So grow on here trying to shake heroin addiction and type one, like you said, there's other things that go like there's real people life, and then you get diabetes on top of it. So we have people on all the time talking about difficult stuff. And, and it would be your inclination to think well, you know, don't have a girl on who's done heroin, like people won't like that. But that's not the truth. The truth is, is that there's a lot of people live in a lot of lives. And a lot of them have type one diabetes, too. So it's very, like I really, I really appreciate you coming on and, and sharing all this with me and, and I just, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. Yeah, no, my pleasure. Absolutely. Thank you. So no, great. Hey, Kelsey, can you jump back on for a second? Hello, Kelsey, I'm still recording because you're a fan of the show. You get to talk for a second so you can hear yourself one day when you're listening to this. Oh, awesome. Thank you. That was pretty much it. Do you have type one as well?

Unknown Speaker 51:36
I do. Yeah, I've had type one since I was seven years old. Right. And you.

Scott Benner 51:41
You work with Chris through the foundation?

Unknown Speaker 51:43
Yes. Yeah. I worked full time for the Chris Dudley foundation and help out with camp every summer and we're looking forward to when we can get back in person.

Chris Dudley 51:52
I just wanted to record. Chelsea's got a great story. So Kelsey was a camper. Kelsey, what age did you come in 10. First 10. So long time lifer camper. And then Kelsey met her husband, who also has type one at camp.

Scott Benner 52:07
Kelsey, you met your husband at Chris's camp?

Unknown Speaker 52:10
I did. Yeah. He came as a basketball coach. And I was working there and we got married last May.

Scott Benner 52:18
Chris did that mean you had to pay for the wedding? I don't understand. I got off because it was a nice wedding. COVID wedding? COVID. Oh, no kidding. Oh, she you just got How old? are you now? Kelsey?

Unknown Speaker 52:33
I am 20. I will be 29. In about a week.

Scott Benner 52:35
Wow. Good for you. Are you thinking of having little children? Yep. Someday? Did you? I'm aligned with what Chris was saying earlier about? Some people don't want to know. And some people want to know, do you think you would test your kids?

Unknown Speaker 52:48
Yeah, for sure. It's definitely something I kind of go back and forth on because like you guys were saying it. You know, nowadays, there's the technology so that if you do know, there's stuff you can do about it. I think when I was younger, and I would hear people talk about it and be like, Well, why would you do that, then they just have to sit there and wait for it to happen. But now there's so much technology that I think it would be interesting to see, especially with both parents having type one. Well, Kelsey,

Scott Benner 53:15
I think you might have heard them already. But the pro tip series might help when you decided to be pregnant one day. And I don't know if you've heard the I had Samantha on. So Chris, I this girl came on with type one who I interviewed her in her first second third trimester. And then I interviewed her postpartum as well. And it just so she could talk about what it was like to be pregnant with type one. And I hear from a lot of women that it's helpful. So I'm not rushing you, Kelsey, but you are 29. So let's get

Unknown Speaker 53:44
no, that's awesome. I have friends as well that I think would really enjoy that.

Scott Benner 53:49
That's really cool. Well, I appreciate you. I know Kelsey reached out and Chris, she found me for you. So I'm really grateful for and I would just want to listen Say hi to her. Alright guys, I hope you guys have a great day. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you.

Well, I'd like to thank Chris from the Chris Dudley foundation. Chris dudley.org. I want to thank Dexcom for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Also, a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. g Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL Uc? ag o n.com. forward slash juicebox.

Hey, this is gonna be like months from now. But I also recorded with Kelsey, from the end of the episode, she was really great. I don't know when you're gonna hear that. But I enjoyed talking to her very much, in fact, and I think you'll enjoy hearing from her. Anyway, if you're looking for a great basketball camp, and you're out in the greater Northwest, definitely check out, definitely check out check out there, definitely check out Chris dudley.org to learn more about the Chris Dudley foundation. And I'm leaving all that checkout stuff in there, because I gotta be honest with you. I'm not perfect. Sometimes I get on a roll, and I'm like, Wow, I can't believe I got all that out without messing up. And sometimes I say Checkout, instead of checkout or checkout instead of checkout or whatever. I'm a little tired. It's late at night here. I'll talk to you guys soon. I really appreciate your listening, sharing the show. Last week, the show hit a million downloads just for 2021. So in 2021, we were at a million already. That was crazy. The show in total should hit 4 million any, any time. Now. I don't know if I've got a celebration planned around that or not. I'm not really sure what I could do. But I can tell you this. It's because of you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for listening. Thank you for telling your doctors, doctors, thank you for telling your patients. I can't thank all of you enough. This show would not grow without the fervent support of the listeners. And I know that I wish I could say thank you 1000 times. I'll talk to you soon.