#1054 Parenting: Understanding Parenting Styles
Scott Benner
Scott and Erika talk about understanding parenting styles - the pros and cons of authoritarian, permissive, uninvolved, authoritative and the impact they have.
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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1054 of the Juicebox Podcast
welcome back to my parenting series with Erica Forsythe. Today's episode is understanding parenting styles. There are a number of different parenting styles, not just ones to choose from you actually fall into one you may not even know it, you may fall into more than one. Today we're going to find out about those styles and the impacts that they have. Kind of look at the pros and cons of each. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Erica Forsythe is available to you at Erica forsythe.com Be sure to check her out. She's fantastic. Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, go find your community. People are out there they're looking to help you. And they may just need your help to Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, make a friend or don't lurk around. I don't care use it however you want. Speaking of using things however you want, go check out the diabetes Pro Tip series. It's at diabetes pro tip.com juicebox podcast.com. We're running right now between Episode 1001 1026 In your audio player. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from and you can to us med.com/juice box go there now get your free benefits check and get started. If you don't want to use the internet, that's fine. Pick up the phone 888-721-1514. That number is especially for Juicebox Podcast listeners, give it a call, get going. The podcast is sponsored today by better help. Better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. Better help.com forward slash juicebox to get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy that way better help can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. Erica, how are you?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:37
I'm doing well. Thanks. Good to see you. Today.
Scott Benner 2:41
Are you excited? We're going to start our first series together.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:45
I'm very excited. This is this is a special occasion. Yes,
Scott Benner 2:48
absolutely. It's like a holiday without gifts. So I came to America a little while ago. It's been a couple of months now I guess. And I said I'd love to do. I mean my first thing out of my mouth was I'd love to do a series about what you see with your job about parenting like styles good, bad, what works with us and where problems come from like all this stuff. And from that little bit of an idea, we build out a series. So this is the first episode. I don't even know that I know what we're going to call it yet. So I won't be able to say right now. But in today's episode, Erica and I are going to talk about understanding parenting styles. And by that I mean she's going to talk and I'm going to ask some silly questions. And that'll probably be it. So let me list them here because Eric has given them to me as an already I'm confused because two of them sound the same. Authoritarian, permissive, uninvolved and authoritative. And that's the order. We're going to do them in today.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:50
Yes, okay. Yes.
Scott Benner 3:52
So let's dig right in.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:54
Okay, let's dig right in. And I think just to preface that as you listen to our discussion on these styles to just be mindful of your your self talk. And if you find yourself, you know, going into, you know, a shame spiral or just really getting hard on yourself, as you listen to these different styles. Just want to remind you that we are, you know, neither Scott nor I are perfect parents, there's no such thing as perfect parenting. And we're just really hopeful in as we go through some of these styles and parenting strategies that it will be it'll be helpful and not hurtful. And just to be kind to yourself as we go through these these different styles.
Scott Benner 4:36
Yeah, I will, like just come out and say my whole idea behind this, is that tardy hard enough to be a parent, and then your child's diagnosed with, you know, an incurable disease or you have one and you still have to be apparent to somebody. You know, these things are easy. They easily can get away from you, and become backburner stuff that you just think good is good. Enough, you don't, you know, you don't step back and see yourself anymore and a lot of spiraling can happen. And if you're not paying attention to those things, and communication breaks down and relationships fall apart, it's pretty likely that you'll stop taking care of your health along that way too. So that's why I thought it was important. But anyway, authority Parian. Is that right? Yes.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:23
Yes. So, and one more quick intro that Dr. Diana baumrind. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Introduced, she noticed, she's a psychologist in the 1960s, studying at Cal Berkeley, she noticed that there were these styles of behaviors and personalities and preschoolers. And through her research, she noticed that there were reflective of certain parenting styles. And then in the 1980s, Dr. McCabe, McCabe and Martin introduced, expanded the model. So that's where these terms came from those psychologists, so starting off with authoritarian is that that's we're starting off
Scott Benner 6:06
with correct Absolutely, while I'm googling it, so I can keep Okay. Okay.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:09
So, authoritarian parents, just to give an example, they might be overheard saying, Because I said so. And I you say that emphasis they are really believe in rules, they often will feel like it's, you know, it's either your way their highway type of parenting, and you, if you see your child exhibiting a certain behavior, you will follow through with certain punishment or discipline, and often emphasize that you know, you've made the rules, you're going to enforce the consequences, and you aren't really engaging the child in learning or correcting the behavior, but rather just focusing on hey, I'm the parent, I'm in charge, you said it in that you said, this particular thing in that tone, or you did this behavior, and now you're going to be punished. The children might be responding in a way that they might become more hostile or aggressive. If you're if you're leaning into an authoritarian type of parenting.
Scott Benner 7:19
Do some children, not like not want to be told what to do? But some like it, though, right? Not to say it's a great style or not, but some people want to be told what to do. Also, you find that,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:33
absolutely. So I think as we go through all these styles, yes, there are, you might hear something that we say, and you might remember yourself saying something, I'm sure I've said this as a parent, at some point, there isn't there's a time and place for maybe different aspects of these different styles. And creating really firm boundaries and expectations is healthy. And if you are authoritarian type of parent, you are going to really uphold that. And those that's a positive I think, where it can become confusing and create maybe some more problem, problematic behavior for the child later on, is the delivery and then not really spending a whole lot of time in that that warm nurturing space in the relationship with the child. So you are you are you are the parent, you have the rules, you're enforcing them. But there's no there's not a lot of time spent in the relationship building the trust building, that type of thing.
Scott Benner 8:32
Do people seem to have trouble? Being flexible or moving between these four styles? Like do I guess? Is it once an authoritarian, always authoritarian kind of a feeling?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:45
That's a great question. I think maybe naturally, you might lean into one type of style. And you also might be a response to how you were parented. As a child, you might do exactly the way you were, you might want to replicate that you might want to do the opposite. And so I would say stereotypically, as parents, we might kind of repeatedly and automatically lean into a certain style, but given the nature of our stress are exhausting our own physical and mental health, we might find ourselves popping in and out of different types of styles. But generally, I would say we might, you might lean into one more than the other. And these are sort of natural, you can't be it's not permanent, you can always change
Scott Benner 9:28
yes or no you could I mean, whether you will or not, I don't know but so my expectation is that the doctor you brought up earlier, she recognized these four buckets that people seem to fit into. And I as your I don't want to say what I'm gonna say yet look, I'm sorry. I'm gonna hold my thought till the end there, okay, that's what I'm gonna do. Okay, okay, so these, this could be more obedience discipline is this. Like, where? Like, how about yelling and like, is that all fit into This model,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:01
I would say yelling, if you, if you do practice more of a physical type of punishment, I would suggest that you probably heard authoritarian type of parent, you often maybe without intending to, you're you're wanting the kids to really feel sorry for the, for the mistakes or what they did. And really, you want them to really recognize that, again, it's not necessarily all bad all the time, we want our children to be able to understand that we maybe did or said something that was incorrect or, or cruel. But again, it's the delivery and the connection and the relationship that you have with the child is how you are parenting your child, whether it's authoritative or different style.
Scott Benner 10:45
Is there any situation or scenario you can think of where this is a positive? Or is this mostly a negative way of parenting people?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:55
I think there are certain, like thinking about like safety. Right? Where, you know, don't you do not run after the ball across the street without looking both ways? Or, you know, various you do not swim in the pool without an adult present, again, that I think those those are really strict because I said so well, you know, why? Why can I go swimming without a parent President? Well, because I said, so. And that's the rule. So I think, is that is that? Are you being authoritarian that moment?
Scott Benner 11:24
Because if you leave it up to them, their little soft minds might think their way out of it and go, Oh, you know, she said, we can't swim without somebody here. But Bill is here, he's nine, and we're all six. He's got us, like, you know, like, they could think their way through it and try to come up here. So it's, you want to leave them with a feeling like if I get in this pool, someone's coming at me? Like, I don't know, if it'll be, you know, I'm stuck in my room. I mean, some people might slap some, but I don't know, like, you know, what I mean, like screaming and yelling, like, you know, any anywhere in between, I guess, in that in that kind of, you know, from violence to just, you know, locked down, I guess. But if it works, and nobody drowns, that you kind of feel like, alright, well, it did work. And I think then that builds on your that can build on your problem, because here's a great example, the swimming thing, where we have firm rules, you have to follow them, there's no way around it. Great. But then as the parent, I guess, you see that work, and then all of a sudden, it's vacuum the room because I said, so like, because it's easier, and you're tired? Probably, you know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:29
that's right. And and ultimately, it's, you know, you want to protect your child and out of fear and concern, you really want your child to obey that rule. I think where maybe the difference? Like, yes, are you being authoritarian in saying no swimming without an adult present? Because I said, so. But then if when your child disobeyed that rule, maybe where we would see a difference in parenting style is, is the consequences and like, yes, is your child going to have a consequence for disobeying? And then are you going to explain it, you know, you're gonna sit down and say, I love you, and I want you to be safe. And I know it's still so if you're about spending time validating why the child feels frustrated, or is just because I said, So in your room for an hour done. So you could have
Scott Benner 13:13
authoritarian expectations and lay the rules down in that in that vein, but if it goes wrong, you could respond not in an authoritarian way. Yes, I think that's probably the balance that you're trying to strike there. Right? That makes sense to me. Okay, so what are some of the negatives if you lean too hard into this? And I mean, is it child to child, like, meaning I first I want to just say, like, I'm not here telling you, I think you should hit people or anything like that. I'm not saying that. I'm just imagining some people do and try to speak kind of like broadly here. But is there a world where one of your kids is just out of their freakin mind? And like, this is the only thing they respond to? And in the moment, you know, it's not the right thing, but it's the only thing keeping them from seeing if they can jump from the patio, across the something into the pool or something like you don't I mean, like, what about the crazy kids? Like, what do you? I don't mean crazy, crazy. I mean, like, what about the ones that are like, a lot of energy and hard to handle, and you're pretty sure they're gonna end up under a car.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:16
I think you might even find as you give in this example, I'm thinking about parents and myself included who we might have different styles for different children, right, because of their personality, because of our energy level of when we, you know, did you have one child? And then five years later, you had your second year little bit older, you're tired, or did they present differently? And so, yes, I think there are certain aspects of each style that might fit more appropriately with your particular child and how they present. Ultimately, you always want to focus on building that relationship with the child. And that's so I think, yes, there might be certain examples, in which case, the authoritarian command and consequence may be appropriate. But not I would say not consistently.
Scott Benner 15:10
Erica, I find almost every one of our conversations frustrating, it's not because of you. It's got nothing to do with you. It's just about how the human mind works. Because I can't even envision a situation where you've got one kid who responds well to one style, and one kid that responds well to the other style. But one of the styles is you're locked in your room all the time, or you've taken one upside the head once or twice. And you look over at the other one you like, you just ask her what to do. And she just does it and everything's like, you're so great, but like, and how do you turn to the first kid and say, we have all that works for them? And you can't do that either. There's no winning if anyone's listening. What I'm trying to tell you is do not have children. That's my dad's. There's no winning this game. Erica doesn't believe that's true. I believe it's true. I don't think you can. I don't think you can win. I think you're mitigating that. I think you're always mitigating. You don't I mean, and it's okay, so, yes. I'm sorry, made Erica laugh, and she lost her train of thought. But tell me what, what are some of the real negatives of this? If you have a kid who doesn't respond well to this style, and you're using it on them? What could come of that? Everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arlen does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:56
I think part and most of this has been research based that children who are exposed to authoritarian parents, most of the time, they might grow up to feel like their their opinions, their feelings aren't necessarily considered or matter. They might present with either lower self esteem, sometimes they might become more hostile or aggressive in their play as younger kids and then as they get older, you know, in different types of behaviors they might become, they might just be really angry at you at themselves, because they never really understand like, why are they Why am I always told to do this thing, but I don't really understand it. So when I'm not when the child is not being able to have an opportunity to express how they feel or ask questions or learn. Then the kind of the automatic responses, I'm just gonna be angry. At my parents, I'm gonna be angry at myself, like probably swimming in a lot of shame. Sorry, go ahead
Scott Benner 19:01
and how does that carry into adulthood?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:03
I think that would be like as an adult, maybe not knowing how to properly identify and express how you feel. Probably having a lot of I'm not good enough type of thinking. No matter what I do, I'm not seen or valued or heard. Feeling a deal. That's like the lower self esteem type of talk.
Scott Benner 19:28
I can also see a feedback loop here. That's probably not great. Because if you're the parent, and you somehow either decide or you grew up this way, and you go with it, by the way saying that someone went with this parenting style, I think is ridiculous. I don't think anyone sits down and goes, I wonder how I'm gonna parent this kid. I think it just whatever comes out of your mouth was what comes out of your mouth, right? But if you decide authoritarians, the way to go, and the kid pushes back, then every time the kid pushes back, it reinforces your idea that they need this kind of thing. left down, right? Because look how they're hard. They're difficult like Bob like, But meanwhile, you could go with a different thing where they might just be like, oh, cool, alright. And you'll never know, because you won't think to try that one. Oh, okay.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:12
That's, that is really a great observation, because then you owe that. And then in your narrative, you might start to say, and, and you'll talk to your friends or your partner. Gosh, you know, Johnny's so stubborn. He's He's so strong willed. And we really need to, like crack down on on his tone and his behavior. And, yeah, and then itself kind of perpetuates itself.
Scott Benner 20:39
Okay, is there more to say about this? Or can we move on to the next,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:42
you know, I was just, I was trying to find I was gonna give some a data point, but I wanted to be able to reference it, that 20 In the US, it says roughly 26%, use the authority terrian parenting style, but I want to make sure as I go through the I will try and find
Scott Benner 21:01
what you think about is that you think you've seen about 26%.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:06
That's what this article says. And I want to make sure I can find where they got that. So I'll continue to look for that as well.
Scott Benner 21:12
While you're doing that, I'll move on. The next one is permissive parenting. I'm just gonna go from the internet is the type of parenting style characterized by low demands with high responsiveness. I already don't understand that sentence. Permissive parents tend to be very loving, yet provide few guidelines and rules. These parents do not expect mature behavior from their children, and often seem more like a friend than a parental figure that seemed more accurate to
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:38
Yes, yes. So you might have rules as a permissive parent, but you're not going to always consistently enforce them or follow them. You may give out some consequences, but not consistently. And you kind of you live in kind of this mindset of like, I really want my child to figure things out by themselves. And that, right, like even just saying that that's not all bad, no, right, right, to let yourself to let your child learn and, you know, make mistakes. There is an element that we of course, we want our child or you know, our children to learn and make mistakes. Are we allowing them to act in a way or make mistakes that are really problematic and hurtful to themselves and others? And do we kind of allow that a lot of people might say permissive parenting is like indulgent parenting, okay, like letting them kind of run rule the roost?
Scott Benner 22:36
Do you think it comes? Like our thoughts about these things? Do you think it comes from when you're an adult, you think back to someone who you knew who was treated that way, and they didn't turn out? Well, sort of, like, if I'm being honest, there's like three female names from when I was growing up, I would have never named a daughter, because I knew three girls with this name. And they skeeve me out for one reason or another, like so like, you just couldn't wrap your mind around calling your kid that. And I wonder if you don't look up and say, Well, I'm going to be this way. Because the person who sticks out my mind has been a real, it was definitely raised like this. And so I'm going to try to stay away from that without giving any, any weight to all the other variables that would help make that decision. I wonder if that's why we kind of besides how we were treated, because if you were treated permissively I would think just like with the with the last one, you're either going to come out of it one way or the other, either, you're going to be like some low energy, like Stoner, right? Like literally like, Hey, man, everything's fine. Or you're gonna think I am lucky to be alive. Because my parents didn't help me at all. And I'm going to do that thing for them. Yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:46
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Either, like an having a more grateful experience, or never really learned boundaries, consequences. And so you're continuing to maybe test those boundaries. Yeah. I think, as a child, or excuse me, as a parent, you might have the mindset of like, well, you know, kids will be kids. And again, I know my tone that was kind of more of a critical tone, but sometimes kids will be kids. And that's okay. And so I think it's this, striking this balance between giving them permission to make some choices grow, learn. But then when they're when they do come up against that the boundary of the rule that you've set, where you are more of a permissive parent is not following through, like not always giving the timeout or not. And again, there's it's really hard to be consistent. So
Scott Benner 24:44
as I think about this, each one of these styles comes with its own positive and negative possible outcomes. And they all kind of follow the same thing. Like if you're very permissive with somebody, they might end up just, you know, in your dwell and they also I don't know might not but I will say this, with the exception of like, being a douchebag. I don't see how you'd go real bad being permissive with somebody like if you were, you know what I mean, unless they turned him into a, I don't know a loan sharking, drug dealer or something like that. But like, didn't you mean like in a regular scenario, I think you would get kind of a mellow person out of a permissive, they might not be go getters, they might not be, you know, a captain of industry or something like that. But I think on a human level, I don't think you could go. I don't think this one sounds really damaging to me. And by the way, the first one, the authoritarian one, for the right person, you might create a real like, you know, like somebody who goes out there and gets at it and doesn't screw around and gets things done. And I don't know maybe needs to be whipped on a Friday afternoon in a dungeon. But other than that, they're pretty reasonable. I like that you're just nodding through that you're like so used to being like, you just gotta let it out somewhere, Scott, like with a dominatrix. I hear what you're saying. And like, but you don't mean like, again? Alright, let me ask you this. We've gone through two of these. Have we hit the style you use?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:19
I'm certainly would, if I were totally honest, I there have been certain moments where I've been authoritarian. There have been moments where I've been permissive, there probably been moments or neglectful, I'd like to say I'd lean in the authoritative but I can I can read and research and talk about all of these styles into Oh, yeah, I was. I was certainly that style last night. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a normal, natural thing. For all of us.
Scott Benner 26:44
I'll give away to a minute. But yeah, Arden reminded me the other day, she's like, do you remember like 15 years ago when you were really sick? And cold did something and he took his cell phone and threw it across the room? And I went, Yeah, I remember that. She goes, that took us by surprise. And I said, I regret that if I'm being honest. And I have no, like, I couldn't give you any context where I was incredibly ill. And I don't know what happened. Like something I honestly don't know any of the details. It ended with me. Trying, I don't even know, I think I was trying to do something shocking to stop whatever was happening from happening. But if I could look back from a high level, they were probably just being kids. And I was, I don't know, I didn't feel good. And I just did something stupid. I've said this on the podcast before. So I started out as a very like, like a loving parent. Like I'm I come from a river. I think that's pretty obvious if we're talking but in a in a, in a situation that I thought the kids were in trouble, I would yell. And that totally came from like, the way I grew up. Because I was constantly somebody was constantly yelling at me. And my wife, like pulled me aside and she's like, You can't yell at the kids. And I was like, but they seem to react well, like, like, we're getting what we want. And she's like, No, no, no. And so that took awhile. I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you. She said it to me. And like, on the next Saturday, I was like, I don't yell anymore. But I really don't yell anymore. Like, and I haven't for, I think it's pretty fair to say like, a decade, maybe. But I did, like I used to. And I've, you know, been smacked as a kid. And I wouldn't say more than maybe a handful of times, but I've smacked my kids, like, you know, not with an intention of taking them off their feet or something like that. But, like kind of shocking them into reality. I've done that a couple of times. The permissive part. Geez, jeez. Yes. In spots. In spots. This is the thing I wasn't gonna say to the end. But I think I'm all four of these is what I was gonna say. I think that there's something incredibly wrong with each one of these. And nothing wrong with each one of these, depending on where you use them. Yeah, permissiveness. Arden came home from college recently. I mean, she's 19. But she said she was going out with friends. And then they were meeting up with more people. And like she never came home. Like she did not come home until like nine o'clock in the morning. Now, in fairness, I can track her phone. So. So I knew they were kind of they were parked at a park, like in the parking lot. And they were taught like I knew who she was with. They were probably just sitting there talking the whole time. You know, we're being stupid. I don't know what they were doing. I did not bother her overnight. I didn't send her a text. I didn't say Hey, you gotta get home. I just use the if she was a college, I wouldn't know where she was. I don't see how this is any different. When Kelly woke up, she's like, Arden didn't come home. Kelly was worried. I said, I'll send her a text. I texted her. I said, Hey, are you okay? And she's like, Yeah, I'm sorry. I'll be home soon. And I was like, Hey, you just you didn't contact us to let us know. And she said, you know, just say the word and I won't do this again. I said, No, no, I'm like It's fine. Just, it would have been cool to wake up this morning to attacks it says, Hey, I'm alright. And not me looking down the hallway thinking, Hey, she hasn't been here since the last time I looked down that hall. And she understood and that was it. That's to me. That's pretty permissive. I and my mom would have thrown me out a window. If I did that. I'm pretty sure. So like, I think literally.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:22
Well, perhaps, but what you've already had worked hard on establishing is that warm, nurturing, like trust relationship? Where had this been happening over and over and over again, with no response? Or a trust that she would change? Right? You you both you trust her that she would respond differently? And she trusts you? Yeah.
Scott Benner 30:44
And also the situation did not warrant craziness. I'll tell you like a week ago, she rolled out of this house like 10 o'clock at night. And I was like, what I was I was up here working. And Kelly was downstairs and I went downstairs like where's art? And she She just left? And I was like, wait, I'm like her blood sugar's low. Like we mean, she just left because yes, she said she needed food. She was low. And I said, did you look at her CGM. And she was I didn't. And I was like, Well, I'm looking. And she's 64. Like, we have a diagonal down arrow. She was going to walk like a convenience store two blocks from here, but she went by herself. I got in the car. And I drove right to that convenience store. And I parked outside. And here's what I thought. If her blood sugar holds steady, she's in the convenience store. I'm going to drive away and she'll never know I was here. And if it goes down one more time, she's gonna look up from that cooler, and I'm gonna be standing next to her. And so her blood sugar dropped again. I walked into the store, we made eye contact. She's like, What are you doing here? And I'm like, your blood. I mouthed that to her. I was like, your blood sugar's low. And she goes, I know. And I was like, okay, she just do you think I drove over here without drinking something first? And I said, No, she goes, if you tested my blood sugar, it's not 50. And I was like, okay, and then I got a Three Musketeers bar for myself and I left. Anyway, to me, that's permissive. I don't know what it is for other people. I couldn't just let somebody like be untethered completely. I don't think I'd be okay with that. So, I don't know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:17
so permissive, maybe leaning into you set these boundaries, you were there. You know, I think it also goes years of foundation of being present setting expectations, I think of if you're consistently leaning into the permissive style, I think the outcomes would say that you would, the child could be more impulsive, maybe have more difficulty with social skills or relationships. And, you know, not necessarily knowing what is appropriate picking up on all those social cues. And Arden is not presenting with those right now.
Scott Benner 32:59
But I mean, listen, I've, to me, I've seen my son get hurt on a baseball field, and I have not moved. Because I've assessed from a distance, he's not going to die. And I think this is a difficult situation he's going to need to get through on his own. I've also seen him get hit. And I ran onto the field. But it was situational again, you know, so I would, you know, I don't know, to me, it's all the whole thing. Situational, in my opinion, but anyway, permissive. What do you think are some bad outcomes we could see as an adult, if we were raised like this, and it wasn't right for us?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:35
I think the children could struggle again, academically, there might be some of that impulsivity, that I just said, I think the they might have, they might be at higher risk for health problems, not knowing, you know, having if you're in a permissive household in terms of food and sleep, you know, there's a lot of leniency then as a child, you might not understand what's what's a healthy sleep habit. What's a healthy eating habit, too, that might be more at risk for either you know, obesity or sleep issues, which then leads into the research also talks about you know, poor dental, if you're not like, really you are? Yes,
Scott Benner 34:17
we're probably come from that.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:19
Yes. Because if you're like, Whoa, have your your brush your teeth when you're, you know, when you're ready,
Scott Benner 34:24
no harm, no foul, I'm brushing my teeth and there's no harm, no foul on health in general. Like, nothing bad's gonna happen to me because I didn't have to brush my teeth and I'm still okay. And oh, I see. I got it. All right. Yes.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:36
So, again, I really appreciate the way that you're able to hold you know, yes, there are moments to be maybe more in lenient and with this permissive style there is that emphasis in the the warm, nurturing, nurturing responsive parents, but the difference really is there the your there are few rules and there are few consequences for when your child does not follow the rules. Yeah,
Scott Benner 35:02
I mean, I don't look at, if you really listen to the podcast and you're paying attention, I look at diabetes, the way I look at everything. And I look at parenting the way I look at everything to like, there's common sense, there's time for common sense. There's time to be a little aggressive, there's time to lay back, there's time to be, you know, all different ways. And yet, I will tell you that I think my kids are reasonably, like, adjusted. And I don't think I'm perfect that I don't think Kelly is and I don't think they are. But I can tell you that they're not in a crap ton of trouble ever. Like, they're not people who are in trouble. I've never once thought I'm gonna have to go to a police station to get somebody. I've never once thought that someone's gonna say to me, Oh, my God, I'm sorry. I thought it was heroin. Like you don't I mean, like, like, I don't ever think something like that is going to happen, and hasn't so far. But when I've asked my kids about it, like moving forward, because I mean, like, as an example, cocaine, completely available everywhere. Like you can get it in middle school, high school, college, it's like sitting around. And when I asked my son one time, how come you've never tried that? He said, he didn't want to, it was there wasn't something he wanted to do. And so he didn't do it. So I'm comfortable that he's got his own feelings, and he's able to assert them in other places. But he also responded and said, and I think you would have drove, they're taking me out of school and killed me. And I was like, and when he said that, I thought, Oh, good. I absolutely would have done that. And I'm glad he knows. And Arlen piped up. And she said, yeah, there are things I don't do. Not because, like, I want to do them, and I don't but I have thought in my head, like seeing somebody else do something. Like if I did that my dad would probably rip my head off. And I think there's, I think it's good that they're a little scared, to be perfectly honest. I mean, like, they're not scared of me. Obviously, they're not scared of me. But I do think they think in the right situation, if they made the wrong move, I would probably lay waste to what it is, is their life. And I think that's I don't know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:00
well, and ultimately what I would hear underneath that, or what I would reflect is like they respect you as their parent.
Scott Benner 37:07
I don't think they respect me, but they're definitely scared of what's gonna happen. So is that respect?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:14
Fear Fear based? Yeah, I mean, I think that they, they want to respect and honor they're scared of the consequences. But even children and teens and young adults might choose, I'm quoting the wrong choice, even if they're scared of the consequences, because they don't really care. They don't really respect or love or or want to honor how they've been raised. So I think there is that that foundation of trust and respect,
Scott Benner 37:37
we're also very careful not to lord over them. Like we don't have them in a position where they feel like I can't be myself. Because if these two people don't like what I do, they can change my life. Guys, I never thought that was a good idea. I've seen that done to people that usually financially they hold you, they hold you hostage a little bit. Right. And you can't really be yourself because you're afraid of, of losing your meal ticket. Anyway, I'm sorry, what's the next one on involved?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:05
I'm involved. Sorry, sorry, say that. Again. I
Scott Benner 38:08
said, this one seems like a no brainer. But go ahead.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:11
So yeah, uninvolved, you might have heard it as neglectful this type of parenting style, you might present more a little bit cold, and not really responding to your child's needs, or you know, asking how their day was, there might be a sense of indifference about how your child is doing that, that corresponds to really no rules or an or no consequences. And again, you might feel like even as we're describing this, there are moments where I might feel that you didn't even like I'm being an uninvolved parent. Sometimes it's like, you're you're so exhausted, and you're, you're stressed with work, and you just got into an argument with a family member, and you have nothing left to give to your child. So that's in that moment. Yes, maybe you're you're acting as if you're an uninvolved in our political parent, that's going to happen. But again, we're talking about like this is, if you are a neglectful parent over time, and consistently, there, there are, obviously a lot of negative outcomes in your child. If that's
Scott Benner 39:19
been done consistently over time, is it likely that the parent has some sort of an emotional issue themselves? Because I'm trying to imagine I know that everybody's not me. But, man, it's hard to imagine somebody having a baby and then just being like, whatever, and treating it like a dog that lives outside. I don't, it's hard for me to wrap my head around, but that's not uncommon. Right.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:43
Right. And I think there, there could be so many factors, right? Are you dealing with your own mental health? Are you being triggered because of your own experiences as a child and maybe you are coming from a place of trauma that has not been proud assessed, and it's too painful to see your child do the things that you did. I think the financial stress, family stress, work, stress are major factors at play when you are acting in an uninvolved way, as a parent,
Scott Benner 40:18
it's a little startling to me that you could not know yourself well enough prior to having a baby to say, I probably would be really, really bad at this. So let me stay out of this. Like I respect people who know their limits and stay away from I also don't understand. When people judge what they think is gonna happen in the future, whether it's like buying a car, and you're like, I don't know if I can afford this payment, or something like that. I don't understand people who don't layer on to their thinking, the worst possible outcome, everyone high sides it like, well, if this happens, and that happens in the you know, if it's, if it's a cool summer, then the air conditioning won't run, I'll be able to make this paint. Like when you're thinking that, like I, for clarity, do not get you I come from a perspective of if everything goes wrong, can I still handle this, and I assume everything's not gonna go wrong. But that's how I don't know. weird for me.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:14
I think I think often as you were suggesting, parents who are uninvolved in their child's lives, most of the time are facing their own mental health challenges. They might be, you know, be using substances to cope with their pain, and then consequently are uninvolved, right, because if you're always on substances, you can't really be involved.
Scott Benner 41:38
So if you're the child in that situation, what's the best outcome for you, obviously, the parent pulling it together, but let's say that can't happen, is getting away the best thing that can happen.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:48
I think, if you're the child and both have oftentimes, one parent might be more uninvolved and so the other parent if they're able to, might step in and counteract that. I think if you are experiencing as a child or teen, a parent who is unable to attend to your needs, seeking support from if you're in school, from your teachers, from your school counselors, other family members, you know, any any adult that feels like a safe a trusted adult in your life, seeking support from them, and hopefully other parent other adults in your life, if you are a child or teen listening to this, you know that that they would be under seeing how you are feeling and doing as a child or teen and speaking into your life and encouraging you.
Scott Benner 42:40
Alright, do we have time for the last one? I'm sorry, I know I kept you. Yes, yes. Authoritative. This parenting style. The parents are nurturing responsive and supportive, just like the Beavers are the cleavers, the cleaver beavers, yet set firm limits for their children, they attempt to control children's behavior by explaining rules, discussing and reasoning. They listen to a child's viewpoint, but don't always accept it. Okay. All right. Sounds like, like, like somebody wrote that out, like how it'd be now. So is that a thing that she actually saw? And people she's like, Oh, some people do this well, or is this her interpretation of what good is?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:17
I think she created this parenting style as a result of observing the preschool aged children. So these children had had positive self esteem, they were able to socialize well, they performed well, academically, socially, in the school environment. And obviously, when we talk about the authoritative that's, you know, as we said, there isn't like one right way. But this would be the best way if you were wanting to grow in an area to lean into the authoritative style. We can it is impossible to be live in this space all of the time, because we are human. And but I think the the basis is kind of like the permissive style, there's really a strong emphasis on having that warm, nurturing, attending parent, too. You know, when the child gets home from school take it isn't you know, taking a minute to get down at their level and asking them how their day was and validating their emotions and then when they are acting out being consistent explaining why are they having a timeout? Or why are they being told to read say that sentence in a different tone? At the same time, where maybe it might feel like the uninvolved or permissive parent like giving them independence too. But giving those kind of rails or boundaries of Kate you're going to be I want you to grow and become independent and make mistakes. But when I see you going one way or the other, I don't want you to hurt yourself or others.
Scott Benner 44:56
Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot little like, it's a little perfection with a boat. The description, I guess. Yeah. But I mean, it does it makes sense to me. I mean, it makes sense to have a firm hand when it's needed. It makes sense to be, you know, to step back when stepping back is the thing, I think the hardest thing to do is to recognize that those things are necessary, and probably recognize that you're not doing them when you're not doing them. Because I set you everyone thinks this is them. Do you know what I'm saying? I bet you if you laid these four out and said, Hey, which one of these are you? People be like, Oh, I'm authoritative I am, I'm a good mix, then you go ask their kid, their kid would be badly the kid might be wrong. But the problem with parenting, if I may, is, you don't get to know for like 25 years. When you find out, it's too late to fix it. How do you recognize in yourself? What's happening in time to do something about it?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:04
That's gotta be hard. That's such a good question.
Scott Benner 46:07
I don't know without my wife, if I would have figured it out,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:10
obviously. So having the awareness and also educating yourself, right? Like, even as you're listening to this, if you've never heard these, you might not have never heard these terms, which is okay. And you might say, oh, yeah, I do find myself saying this or doing that. And then recognizing, oh, you know, what I'm seeing that my kid is always yelling back at me, or I'm noticing that my child, it feels like they're lying a lot, or I'm noticing that they're becoming really kind of egocentric and think that the world revolves around them. Or so. Oftentimes, you know, I children do reflect our parenting styles. And so being not only aware of how we're delivering our tone, our mood, but what are what is the feedback our children are giving us. And then understanding that there is always an opportunity to grow. I know, we are not stuck in how we parent even though we might it might feel like it at times,
Scott Benner 47:11
I don't know if people will find this helpful or, or maddening. But I just always assume I'm doing it wrong. And leave myself open to flexibility. I don't know, I always assumed that there's a better way to be doing what I'm doing. And I just don't know what it is. I mean, I don't just mean with parenting, I know I make this podcast, and every day I think, oh my god, I reaches this many people, I bet you would reach more if I knew what the hell I was doing. But I don't like there's something in this space. Like, I don't know if I've ever said this to you before. But one of my favorite mental exercises, is that thing to the end of an idea, like to the end of my understanding, and then to spend time wondering what's beyond it, even though that's kind of a black place in my mind that I can't pull thoughts from, but I try to think like what other people know, beyond what I know. And I don't know, like, it's it really is just a thought exercise, but I've done it my whole life. And it's, I find it valuable because every once in a and you should do it in the shower. Because warm water on your head makes you smarter. I think that's I think that's true, by the way.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:17
Well, a lot of good thinking happens in the shower for a lot of people, I think, you know, even I was just thinking through, you know, these different styles. And, and I think we I don't know, if he said at the beginning of this episode, or in our intro episode that, you know, our hope is that as we understand our parenting styles, to take a step back and say, Gosh, I want to improve in this way so that I can improve my relationship with my child so that we can communicate, understand one another and improve the diabetes management piece. And even as we're going through these different parenting styles, I'm thinking about how you might be parenting your child's diabetes. And there might be moments where you're, you know, exercising each one of these styles right to validate, validate the frustration and the emotion of having to change your sight and having to Pre-Bolus every single time. And that and then but then also holding those consequences of like, but we need to do it. There might be times when it has to be authoritarian, right. There might be times when you want to give a little bit more permission and leniency for your child to to grow and, and to have a mistake, right? So yes, the best. Yes, sorry. Go ahead. No,
Scott Benner 49:32
I want to just add that I think being hopeful is also good. Meaning that you know, we hear people say it all the time, like you know there's crime in the world or all this drug addiction or this these problems. They all start out as babies. They're all nobodies on this path until someone puts them on this path. So if you're not actively putting them on that path, you should tell the anxiety in your head to calm down because things are probably going to be okay. cuz I do think a lot of I mean, how do they put it right? Like, how do you ruin food, sometimes it's by being too attentive to it, you know, like turning too many knobs ruins things like think of all of you trying to set up your algorithms, probably, you should have left it alone, I will, I will absolutely tell you that my daughter and her friends were over saying goodbye to each other before college started back up last week. And one of them was talking about a problem they were having. And I said, Sandra, let me give you the best advice I have as an adult. And she goes, Okay, I said, often, the best thing to do is nothing. Now I'm not saying be, you know, it completely, you know, what was that one called? But, but I'm saying that sometimes, you don't need to turn every little knob and make every little adjustment, like sometimes just letting things play out is is valuable. If they're not getting hit by a car, or, you know, drowning in a pool, or, you know, the big stuff, everyone's gonna go in a slightly different direction, none of your kids are gonna end up the way you mean for them to. So you might as well let go of that illusion to begin with. And just, you know, let them find their way but guide them I. I mean, I would think that when my kids grow up, and they have, and they are adults, and they have some real like, time on this planet, and some experience, I think they're gonna look back and see that I was standing behind them. There were wires from the little Marionette thing to them. But I was trying really hard not to use them. And I, you know, when every once in a while you trick them into doing something that's right for them. Nothing wrong with that either, by the way.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:39
I love that illustration or that image? That's good. Like, I'm
Scott Benner 51:44
there, but I'm not doing it. But if they fall, I go, oops. And not all the time. Sometimes, oh, this fall is not going to hurt him let that go. It's hard. Like it's it's difficult because everything that goes, quote unquote, wrong in your eyes, you think is the end? I mean, if you're a halfway loving parent, everything that goes wrong for your kids, there's a little voice inside of you that goes, This is it. They're done. I screwed it up, you know, like, but that's just not the case. Most of the time everybody is going to be look at Tarzan, they left him in the jungle. And he came back fine.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:20
Yes, well, and I think there's that balance, right of learning, having the awareness, being kind to yourself as a parent, like we're doing, we're all doing the best we can. And that just even thinking about that feedback from your child, or your teen and even applying it to the numbers. You know, a lot of parents use that as those numbers as the as the the agency, your time and range as evidence of how they're parenting. Right? Like, am I being a really good parent, I'm a bad parent. And to be offered, you know that grace and compassion towards yourself that you are, you are doing the best you can and not using that as like, oh, I should be more this way. That way. Anyway, go ahead.
Scott Benner 53:05
I can just I'm thinking of a specific situation. I'll let you go. I got to see this child raised in my life, like from the outside. And the kid was, I don't know. It was he was he was difficult from the beginning. I don't know if it's ADHD like I can't tell you what it wasn't. I don't know. Is he the brightest person I've ever met? No, but real soulful, really like humanity. Like humane wise, a really smart, loving, caring person drifted towards like, drugs, and not hard drugs, like more like, you know, weed and that kind of realm. Like there, I'm gonna guess wheat and mushrooms is probably his jam. And I watched the parents fight it, fight it and fight it and fight it and fight it. They were in a fight, they were never going to win. And then one day, they just realized, I've got the kid with holes in his jeans and flip flops, who's gonna have weed on him all the time, and they're happy and he's happy, and everybody's still alive. And you know, like, and he's gonna be okay. His whole life, like that kind of stuff. He's not what they imagined. But he is himself. And I think there's something to that. I mean, I think there's a difference between trying to stop a kid from drowning in a pool and trying to make a person something they're not. Yes. Anyway, those are my interpretations.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:29
And that, in that mindset, I was trying to apply into a specific parenting style, but I think that's, it's all of that feels that it feels like a little bit of all of them, but that also feels very authoritative, right, like you're, you're loving the child as they are that you're creating. You've created boundaries and safety nets, but also loving and validating the child for their feelings in their desires.
Scott Benner 54:53
Someone from the outside would definitely look at them and think, wow, they screwed that kid up. And I'm gonna I tell you, I think they they did and probably the biggest failure of his life. So it's, he's not what I imagined they hoped for. If I gotta be honest with you, if I had a son, he wouldn't be he wouldn't be what I would hope for. But he is lovely and terrific person to be around and he's himself. So I don't know. That's how it strikes me. Okay, can we real quickly? I'm just gonna tell people what we're going to do here. We're not 100% sure how many episodes this is going to be. But I do think we know for certain the next few are going to be building positive communication, self care, personal growth for parents, creating boundaries and expectations, avoiding unintended consequences, co parenting, and unified fronts, and then recognizing patterns and breaking cycles. Is that about where we're sure too? Were you comfortable with the next one saying it now too?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:54
I think that we I think we'll pause there. I think that feels good. Okay. Yes,
Scott Benner 55:57
perfect. Well, again, I really appreciate you doing this stuff with me. I love it when you come on. I feel like by the time we're done, I'm somehow hopeful and not hopeful all at the same time, which I think means I'm being realistic. And I think that's good. Thank you. Yeah, good afternoon, by.
A huge thanks to Erica for coming back again today and helping me build out this parenting series, Erica forsyth.com. She can see you in person in California, and virtually in a number of different states. Check out our website to find out more Erica forsyth.com. Eric has had type one diabetes herself for over 30 years. And I would like to thank us med for sponsoring this episode of the podcast us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us men.
If you were a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes, and it begins at episode 698. In your podcast, or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this to listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bowl beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bowl beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bowl beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode 780 Treating low blood glucose episode 784 dealing with it surance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management, check it out, it will change your life. Hey everybody. BetterHelp is a sponsor of the podcast and they're offering my listeners 10% off their first month of therapy, it's a great deal. I hope you can check it out better help.com forward slash juicebox. Now better help is the world's largest therapy service that is 100%. Online. They have over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists, they can help you with a wide range of issues. All you have to do to get started just hit my link, answer a few questions about your needs and preferences and therapy. And that way BetterHelp will be able to match you with the right therapist from their network. Better help.com forward slash juicebox you're gonna get the same professionalism and quality as you'd expect from in office therapy. And if for any reason your therapist isn't right for you, you can switch to a new one at no additional charge. Do therapy on your terms, text chat, phone video call and you can even message your therapist at any time and then schedule a live session when it's more convenient. So if you're looking for someone to talk to check out better help
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