#1709 Two Shovels, One Headache
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Two siblings diagnosed a month apart. Their mom—also a child psychologist—talks early warning signs, day-to-day management, and how their family handles stress, burnout, and growing independence.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:00) As the holidays approach, I wanna say welcome and thank all of my good friends for coming back to the Juice Box podcast over and over again.
Dena (0:13) I'm Dina. (0:14) I'm a mom to two relatively newly diagnosed kids with type one diabetes, and I'm a clinical child psychologist.
Scott Benner (0:22) If you're new to type one diabetes, begin with the bold beginning series from the podcast. (0:27) Don't take my word for it. (0:29) Listen to what reviewers have said. (0:31) Bold beginnings is the best first step. (0:33) I learned more in those episodes than anywhere else.
Scott Benner (0:36) This is when everything finally clicked. (0:38) People say it takes the stress out of the early days and replaces it with clarity. (0:42) They tell me this should come with the diagnosis packet that I got at the hospital. (0:46) And after they listen, they recommend it to everyone who's struggling. (0:50) It's straightforward, practical, and easy to listen to.
Scott Benner (0:53) Bold Beginnings gives you the basics in a way that actually makes sense. (0:58) If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. (1:04) Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. (1:07) But everybody is welcome. (1:09) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me.
Scott Benner (1:14) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. (1:23) Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:27) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. (1:33) US Med is sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast, and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from US Med for years. (1:41) You can as well.
Scott Benner (1:43) Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. (1:50) Use the link or the number, get your free benefits check, and get started today with US Med. (1:56) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Eversense three sixty five, the one year wear CGM. (2:04) That's one insertion a year. (2:05) That's it.
Scott Benner (2:06) And here's a little bonus for you. (2:08) How about there's no limit on how many friends and family you can share your data with with the Eversense Now app? (2:14) No limits. (2:15) Eversense. (2:16) The podcast is also sponsored today by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology.
Scott Benner (2:25) Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. (2:32) Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox.
Dena (2:38) I'm Dina. (2:39) I'm a mom to two relatively newly diagnosed kids with type one diabetes, and I'm a clinical child psychologist.
Scott Benner (2:47) You have two children in total?
Dena (2:49) I have two children in total. (2:51) Okay. (2:51) Correct.
Scott Benner (2:51) And oh, wait a second. (2:54) How old are they?
Dena (2:55) So Zeke is 13, and Ruby is 10. (2:59) Zeke was diagnosed August 2022, and Ruby was diagnosed a month later, September 2022.
Scott Benner (3:09) And when you named them, you were trying to get them their own Disney Channel TV show at the time or what? (3:13) Zeke and Ruby. (3:14) I mean, right? (3:16) That seemed like something your kids would watch in the afternoon?
Dena (3:19) Not anymore. (3:20) They're teenagers now, but maybe maybe once upon a time.
Scott Benner (3:24) When you're on those Disney Channel shows, you have to grow up, get some sort of a drug habit, go off for a little bit, try singing for a little, come back. (3:32) You're good not to put them in it. (3:33) I don't think it would've worked out.
Dena (3:35) Yeah. (3:36) Not our vibe at all.
Scott Benner (3:37) Zeke and Ruby. (3:38) Okay. (3:38) Wait. (3:38) So Zeke's diagnosed and then Ruby's diagnosed how long afterwards?
Dena (3:43) One month.
Scott Benner (3:44) It's not catchy, is it? (3:45) But I I didn't
Dena (3:46) They made me think it.
Scott Benner (3:48) Yeah. (3:48) Yeah. (3:48) Well, so I'm gonna guess. (3:50) Oh, do I wanna guess or do I wanna let you go? (3:54) Why don't I let you go?
Scott Benner (3:55) How did you notice how was Zeke presenting? (3:57) Like, what got you there?
Dena (3:59) Zeke was thick. (4:00) He's a super active, athletic, busy guy, and he'd sort of slowed down. (4:07) His mood hadn't really significantly changed, and it was also the end of summer. (4:12) We'd been traveling. (4:14) We he was, you know, just starting fourth grade, and he had a physical coming up.
Dena (4:20) So my physician, husband, and I were like, meh. (4:24) He's probably fine. (4:25) He was having some, like, leg cramps, which could have been explained by growing pains. (4:31) He was drinking a few Gatorade water bottles a night, but he was a super active kid. (4:38) He'd had a few nights of, like, excessive urination, but, again, like, none of it added up.
Dena (4:44) We didn't know what to look for at the time. (4:47) And, you know, thankfully, he wasn't so sick that he couldn't do the things he loved to do. (4:53) We just were starting to notice some differences.
Scott Benner (4:55) Okay.
Dena (4:56) He was, you know, at his physical, the pediatrician put some pieces together very quickly, and he was admitted with an a one c of 13.
Scott Benner (5:06) Oh. (5:06) Hey. (5:07) You told me what you do for a living, but your husband's a physician as well?
Dena (5:10) I'm a clinical psychologist. (5:12) A psychologist.
Scott Benner (5:12) I'm sorry.
Dena (5:12) But Yep. (5:13) And he is a physician.
Scott Benner (5:14) Your English is so good that I said as well when I shouldn't have, and you were like, you're wrong. (5:18) I'm not a doctor. (5:19) Was like, what?
Dena (5:20) No. (5:20) A doctor, Scott, but a different kind of doctor, to be clear.
Scott Benner (5:24) I have to say, I I said in the kitchen the other day, do you think I could get one of those fake doctor? (5:29) It's like somebody could invite me somewhere to speak and I could be a doctor. (5:32) And my wife was like, oh, god. (5:35) And I think she thought it's possible he could make that happen. (5:40) Then he'd try to get us to call him doctor, which I wouldn't, by the way.
Scott Benner (5:44) It all sounds like too much work for me. (5:46) But, honestly, if you said to me I had to do that, I'd be like, it doesn't seem worth it. (5:50) Tell me again, what is your husband? (5:52) I'm sorry, do.
Dena (5:53) He's a physician. (5:54) He's an interventional radiologist.
Scott Benner (5:56) Oh. (5:57) Oh, okay. (5:57) Alright. (5:58) So the the two of you and your seventeen years of combined schooling didn't see the type one diabetes. (6:05) That's not
Dena (6:06) comforting. (6:07) Nailed it. (6:08) Yeah. (6:08) That's that's exactly right. (6:10) Yes.
Scott Benner (6:10) Should make other people feel better, don't you think?
Dena (6:13) Oh, so much better. (6:14) Yeah. (6:15) You know, we get that a lot, and it's one of our least favorite things that people say is like, oh, there's no better parents than you to do this. (6:24) So And we think, really? (6:25) Like
Scott Benner (6:27) I could think of better people. (6:28) Those people are called not me because Not
Dena (6:30) me. (6:31) Yep.
Scott Benner (6:31) I'm not looking for this. (6:32) Okay. (6:32) So, I mean, with a 13 a one c, even though you don't think that there were a lot of outward signs, I mean, was he in DKA, or did it hit him really quickly? (6:41) How how do you think that happened?
Dena (6:43) You know, I mean, the truth is, like, most things with diabetes, we don't know. (6:48) He was not in DKA yet. (6:51) He was very sick.
Scott Benner (6:52) Mhmm.
Dena (6:54) And, you know, apparently, we caught it. (6:57) He was admitted. (6:58) He felt really shitty in the hospital. (7:00) You know, he was pretty sick and had a lot of signs that, you know, his blood sugar was high for a long time. (7:08) We you know, of course, in hindsight, I think all parents do this of relatively newly diagnosed kids.
Dena (7:12) It's like we, you know, have racked our brains and looked at like, we went away in June to the beach. (7:18) Was he already sick? (7:19) We can we could think of some episodes where we felt like it was likely a really high blood sugar that was making him behave that way. (7:27) But the truth is we don't know, and we'll never know.
Scott Benner (7:30) Yeah.
Dena (7:30) You know, there was there was no overt signs. (7:33) It was just this constellation of weird things that, of course, turned out to be explained by diabetes. (7:39) What Zeke subsequently was you know, his everything was out of whack when he was admitted. (7:46) He was subsequently diagnosed with the trifecta. (7:49) So he has Hashimoto's thyroiditis and celiac Uh-huh.
Dena (7:53) Which arguably is maybe tougher to live with as a 13 year old boy than diabetes.
Scott Benner (7:59) Was there any illness in the house in the months prior to his diagnosis?
Dena (8:05) No. (8:05) Nothing. (8:06) Not that we remember.
Scott Benner (8:07) Because, you know, I'm looking for a reason why the sister pops off immediately afterwards. (8:12) Like, did you both like, did they both have, like, you know, cocksackie or something like that? (8:16) A virus.
Dena (8:17) Nothing overt. (8:19) We, you know, we always wonder, like, did we all have COVID and not know it? (8:23) Mhmm. (8:23) But we didn't know if we did, and there's no clear viral link in our family Interesting. (8:29) That we know of.
Scott Benner (8:31) Let's go back through the family lives though. (8:33) Like, you, your husband, any autoimmune for either of you?
Dena (8:38) Oh, yeah. (8:38) Yeah. (8:39) We have the sort of, like, low grade constellation on both sides of the family.
Scott Benner (8:42) Okay.
Dena (8:44) So my husband's sister has celiac and has had, like, a long history of autoimmune stuff throughout her life. (8:53) She's pretty open about. (8:55) I have thyroid dysfunction, really, that was onset with my second pregnancy. (9:02) Mhmm. (9:02) Hypothyroid.
Dena (9:03) And I was diagnosed with vitiligo, interestingly.
Scott Benner (9:06) Okay. (9:07) I have
Dena (9:07) a pretty mild case. (9:08) It honestly, like, has never really affected me. (9:12) But, you know, of course, now we put together all the pieces that perhaps there was you know, there's a little theme. (9:18) But those are the those are the only known. (9:19) I do have sort of maternal family history of thyroid dysfunction, but, again, nothing that, like, raised eyebrows until now.
Scott Benner (9:27) I joked with somebody the other day. (9:28) I said if every grandmom who whose wrists hurt didn't have a baby, I wonder how much autoimmune there'd be in the world now. (9:35) Because by the time everybody tells their story, eventually, get to a grandmother and, like, my grandmother had RA. (9:40) Like, there's always, like, one of those or very, very commonly. (9:43) But your husband doesn't have anything directly for him?
Dena (9:46) No. (9:47) Not that we know of.
Scott Benner (9:48) Okay. (9:48) Okay. (9:49) How did they get the triple diagnosis right there? (9:53) Did he just run labs while he's in the hospital?
Dena (9:56) So he actually his titers or whatever they draw for celiac were normal added on admission. (10:03) Everything else was out of whack. (10:05) He was diagnosed a year later. (10:07) So just like on his annual blood draw, a year after diagnosis, he was diagnosed with celiac.
Scott Benner (10:12) Oh, okay. (10:13) So not right there. (10:13) Not right then and there.
Dena (10:15) Correct. (10:15) Yeah.
Scott Benner (10:16) Is there looking back, did he have celiac symptoms before the type one?
Dena (10:20) No. (10:21) No. (10:21) Definitely not.
Scott Benner (10:22) Okay. (10:22) And thyroid, the same, do you think?
Dena (10:24) I think. (10:25) You know, it's kinda weird. (10:26) It's this, like, curiosity that we don't check for this stuff in in young kids. (10:30) Sure. (10:31) But there's no reason to believe that he did.
Scott Benner (10:33) Okay. (10:33) You managed with what? (10:34) Synthroid?
Dena (10:35) Yep.
Scott Benner (10:36) And it works for you? (10:37) Like, your TSH is low enough, you don't have symptoms?
Dena (10:41) Yep. (10:41) Exactly. (10:42) Both of us. (10:42) Zeke's going through puberty big time, so everything is changing. (10:46) His dose is a little bit of a moving target, but I'm well managed right now.
Scott Benner (10:50) Yeah. (10:50) Is he growing well?
Dena (10:52) He's growing beautifully. (10:54) You know, it's like, I really hate to talk about silver linings because I just don't think that there's a lot of them here. (10:59) But because he they have so much medical management, we caught his celiac probably right away. (11:06) He was very mildly symptomatic. (11:10) And, like, he's been growing beautifully.
Dena (11:12) They're my kids are huge. (11:14) In fact, whenever we go to the I'm five two. (11:16) And whenever we go to the endocrinologist, she says to me, remind all your husband is? (11:21) Like, how did you make these tall kids? (11:23) So, yeah, I feel so, so grateful that he's growing incredibly well, and it never affected his growth or his health Right.
Dena (11:30) Honestly, that would you know, because we caught it early.
Scott Benner (11:33) Does Ruby have any extras over type one?
Dena (11:36) No extras so far. (11:37) She's just standard.
Scott Benner (11:39) She's standard. (11:39) So tell me one more time. (11:41) Zeke's has diabetes for how long? (11:44) And then you look at your daughter and think, oh my god. (11:46) It's happening again.
Dena (11:48) Yep. (11:48) So he was diagnosed. (11:51) And in the hospital, we have we have just, like, this awesome community of diabetes people in our world. (11:58) So our endocrinologist is actually also a mom at our school. (12:02) Mhmm.
Dena (12:03) And I coached lacrosse at the school. (12:06) So she came in to Zeke's hospital room and said, coach Dunn. (12:11) What's up? (12:12) And she has been our our endocrinologist ever since. (12:15) And she said, I think as they'd say to everyone, you know, you know that this can run-in families.
Dena (12:22) Siblings are higher risk. (12:23) And in that moment, it planted a seed of worry, but that's not that hard to do with me. (12:29) And, you know, my husband, like, rolled his eyes and patted me on the back, and, thankfully, Zeke was discharged, healthy, and good to go. (12:36) But, of course, that little seed of worry, I think, sort of bloomed in me, and so I'm, like, watching Ruby carefully. (12:42) And she perhaps is drinking a touch more water, but I am so exhausted and strung out and anxious about everything at that point Mhmm.
Dena (12:50) That I you know, I'm like, no way. (12:52) No way. (12:53) No way. (12:54) And about a few weeks later, Zeke was actually playing baseball at the time, and Ruby was at the game running around. (12:59) And she kept saying, mom, I have a wedgie in my leggings.
Dena (13:03) Like, my leggings are fitting funny. (13:05) And I was like, okay. (13:07) You know, these were leggings from the previous spring, and this was fall. (13:11) And I thought, why is my little seven year old pants falling down?
Scott Benner (13:16) Mhmm.
Dena (13:17) So I threw her up on the scale because I don't know. (13:19) I've known her past weight, and she had actually, like, lost a pound or two, which, again, like normal life, no one would think anything of in my opinion. (13:29) But, of course, that worry seed grew bigger. (13:31) And I said to my husband, like, something's not right. (13:34) Something's not right with Ruby.
Dena (13:35) And he said, I'm sure it's fine, Dina. (13:39) But if you're really worried, you'll take her to the pediatrician. (13:41) I, of course, wanted to poke her finger right there and do ketones and do the whole thing. (13:46) And he warned me, mostly because I think he was really worried about me spinning out. (13:50) And so I I
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Dena (16:23) You got it. (16:23) Yeah. (16:23) Yeah. (16:23) Exactly. (16:24) Like, uh-oh.
Scott Benner (16:25) He's like, there goes my whole life.
Dena (16:27) Right. (16:28) And and you remember, like, we're a month in. (16:31) Right? (16:31) So, like, even a Dexcom change, like, caused great stress in our house. (16:35) You know, just we were learning all the things.
Dena (16:37) And so I felt crazy anyway, and I did I did do exactly what my husband suggested. (16:44) We we went to the pediatrician. (16:45) Thank goodness it was our same pediatrician who kinda did the same thing, like patted me on the back. (16:50) Ruby remembers the story beautifully. (16:51) She says it was a Tuesday, and I remember you took me out of school.
Dena (16:55) We And told my teacher I was gonna be right back because I just was gonna need to pee in the cup at the pediatrician. (16:59) Mhmm. (17:00) And this is the moment everything changed, really, is, you know, she had glucose in her urine, and her blood sugar was 300.
Scott Benner (17:11) Wow. (17:12) Wow. (17:13) Wow. (17:13) Wow. (17:13) Wow.
Scott Benner (17:13) How about that?
Dena (17:14) The pediatrician looked at me, and all the blood rushed out of her face.
Scott Benner (17:19) Yeah. (17:20) And she said, oh my god, Deni. (17:22) You are giving your children type one diabetes. (17:24) Somehow, are you doing this? (17:26) And please get away from it.
Scott Benner (17:29) Can you guys back up a couple of steps, please? (17:31) She's
Dena (17:32) Literally. (17:32) She just like, she didn't know what to say.
Scott Benner (17:35) Right.
Dena (17:35) I I mean, she just did not know what to say. (17:37) And at this point, I have everyone's cell phones on speed dial. (17:41) Even the pediatrician. (17:42) Our wonderful pediatrician was, like, calling me to check-in on us after Zeke was diagnosed. (17:48) So she didn't know what to do, and we'd just been discharged.
Dena (17:51) Like like No. (17:52) I just said goodbye to all these people. (17:54) Like, last thing I wanna do
Scott Benner (17:55) is goodbye. (17:55) There's no doubt that when you walked in that office, she was thinking, uh-oh. (17:59) This one's cracked already. (18:01) Like, she, yeah, like, she definitely thought you were crazy when you brought her in. (18:05) Oh.
Scott Benner (18:05) Yeah.
Dena (18:05) A 100%. (18:06) Everyone did. (18:07) Mhmm. (18:07) Everyone did. (18:08) Yeah.
Dena (18:08) And it was the most validating and terrifying moment. (18:12) Yeah. (18:12) Right? (18:13) Of, like, I knew it. (18:14) My mom intuition was right.
Dena (18:16) I knew it, and I don't wanna have known it.
Scott Benner (18:18) Yeah. (18:19) Of Of all the things to be right about. (18:21) Yeah.
Dena (18:21) You know? (18:22) Yeah. (18:22) Yeah. (18:23) But I just knew. (18:24) I just had this weird sneaking suspicion.
Dena (18:26) And so, you know, then the cascade, we but we truly, like, called our endocrinologist on speakerphone in the pediatrician's office. (18:34) And, of course, she I think her little science brain and research brain starts going like, oh, did we catch it really early? (18:42) And we see on a different
Scott Benner (18:43) level. (18:44) Yeah.
Dena (18:44) Yeah. (18:44) Exactly. (18:45) Everyone was, honestly, because it was it was I mean, Ruby was almost sort of in that, like, pre space of could we do some mitigation. (18:54) And, you know, her a one c, I think, was, like, 6.2 at diagnosis. (18:58) So we definitely caught it extremely early, unusually so.
Scott Benner (19:03) The question has to be is, was she symptomatic the day that Zeke was diagnosed? (19:09) Like, could you have on that same day said check her too and they would have found something?
Dena (19:16) And, again, like, what we learned is that I mean, again, only, like, you only know once you know is she was really spiking randomly. (19:28) So it could have been that they could have just done a quick finger poke, and her blood sugar was normal, and we never thought about it. (19:33) So, I mean, we'll again, we'll never know.
Scott Benner (19:35) Gotcha.
Dena (19:35) But it it's very possible. (19:38) And she, you know, she was discharged on just, a bit of Lantus at the time and and then honestly progressed very quickly. (19:44) We had a whole, like, buffet table in our little in our kitchen of each kid had a poke plan and they would their little ratios were up on a whiteboard. (19:55) And I kinda went into pediatric psychologist mommy mode and got everybody comfy and situated at home, and that was our normal all of a sudden.
Scott Benner (20:03) You guys pivoted well, you think?
Dena (20:06) I mean, can anyone pivot well to this? (20:08) Sometimes I say that we've, like, learned a new language overnight. (20:12) But, yeah, we are you know, my kids are resilient. (20:15) I feel so grateful to be able to say that, but I think, you know, we pivoted as well as anyone has to pivot.
Scott Benner (20:21) Yeah. (20:22) No. (20:22) I mean, I recall I've I've I recall feeling like a zombie in the beginning. (20:26) We're just wandering around the house and everything felt I don't know. (20:31) Like, I've I've described it a ton of different ways, the best way I think is it feels like somebody, like, slapped me in the head with a shovel, and then my head was ringing.
Scott Benner (20:38) And they and they were like, keep living. (20:40) And while my head was ringing, I was like, what just happened? (20:42) Felt like that went on for a little while. (20:45) Yeah. (20:46) Yeah.
Scott Benner (20:46) Gosh. (20:46) That's I mean, that's gotta be overwhelming. (20:49) I mean, I know you're you're probably professionally as prepared for something like this as somebody could beat, but does that transfer to you? (20:57) Like, does, you know, does your background actually help you on yourself, or do you focus it on your kids and and it doesn't help you? (21:08) When you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about, I love that I have to change it all the time?
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Dena (22:09) Good question. (22:11) Hard question. (22:12) You know, I think the truth is is that I really do focus it on my kids. (22:17) I it doesn't really work on yourself. (22:19) Right?
Dena (22:20) Like, it doesn't really work on anyone I love, generally speaking. (22:23) Hopefully, if I separate my work
Scott Benner (22:25) He's like, no one listens to me.
Dena (22:26) Enough? (22:27) I'm like, if only. (22:29) No. (22:29) No. (22:30) You know, I think, honestly, it's only been after my head stopped ringing from my, like, double shovel whack Mhmm.
Dena (22:37) That I think I've started to turn more towards really, like, intentional self care. (22:43) But, pouring it into my kids was easy and and necessary. (22:47) Right?
Scott Benner (22:47) Yeah.
Dena (22:48) It is true. (22:48) You just sort of reach into all the spaces that you know how to take care of your kids and to help them adjust. (22:57) And one of the things I've learned too is sometimes I tease that, like, their blood sugars mimic their personality sometimes. (23:04) But although I have two kids with type one who were diagnosed really at the same exact time Yeah. (23:09) It presents differently, and it looks different in every body.
Dena (23:12) And it's it's it's been just, a really interesting adventure and learning about what each of them needs and and how to how to do right by them, both emotionally and psychosocially and medically.
Scott Benner (23:24) So you really are learning it's easy to say that both of your kids got type one, so there's a a new life to think about. (23:32) But there's actually two new lives, and you have to keep them separated. (23:37) There's steps to take when it's him. (23:39) There's steps to take when it's her, and they're not the same. (23:43) Is that right?
Dena (23:44) Oh, that could not be more right. (23:46) About that. (23:46) Yes.
Scott Benner (23:47) Yeah. (23:47) So just like parenting except, day to day and never ending. (23:52) Like Yeah. (23:53) Exactly. (23:53) Yeah.
Scott Benner (23:54) Because you have you know, like, there's sometimes, like, the thing you say to one isn't the thing you would say to the other one in the same situation. (24:00) But you even have time to figure that out as you're getting older. (24:02) Also, you watch, some parents don't figure it out. (24:05) Right? (24:05) Some parents have, like, this is my style.
Scott Benner (24:07) I apply it evenly over all of them. (24:09) And some of them do better with it than others, but they don't bend. (24:13) But you had to because it's medical. (24:15) So, like, you had to, like, figure one out then figure the other one out. (24:19) How long I mean, this is only three years ago.
Scott Benner (24:21) Right? (24:22) Mhmm. (24:23) Yeah. (24:23) Yep. (24:23) Are you there yet?
Scott Benner (24:25) Like, how would you describe where you're at currently?
Dena (24:28) I feel like every day is a new adventure. (24:31) I feel like there most days as much as anyone can be there three years in. (24:36) Mhmm. (24:37) And as much as anyone can be there parenting, really, like, two teenagers. (24:41) Right?
Dena (24:41) Both kids are going through puberty. (24:43) Both kids are exploring their independence and autonomy in life and in diabetes at the same time. (24:49) Right. (24:50) I think I don't you know, does anyone ever really figure it out to the best of the best? (24:55) Probably not, but we're trying really hard to get it right for each kid.
Dena (25:00) And I I love how you said that. (25:01) It feels true to my experience, which is you really have to parent the kid you have. (25:06) You also have to treat the diabetes your kid has. (25:08) Yeah. (25:09) Both at the same time.
Scott Benner (25:10) I have to tell you until you really said that to me. (25:12) It's not that I didn't, I guess, academically understand it, but it's not a thing that popped into my head that it would be it could be significantly different from one or the other. (25:19) Like, I would have believed you if you said, you know, you know, my daughter gets a period, so, like, there's there's that, like, hormonal shift every month. (25:27) But just the idea that it's completely the same and yet ultimately a little different and that it's on you to remember that. (25:35) I mean, I don't know how much your husband's involved in the management stuff, but it's up to you, you know, the two of you to figure that out.
Scott Benner (25:41) And then it also must be confusing for the kids to watch their situations be very similar but different at the same time.
Dena (25:50) Oh my gosh. (25:51) Yeah. (25:51) That is so so right. (25:53) Yeah. (25:53) My husband is intimately involved in everything just as I am.
Dena (25:57) And, actually, that adds another variable. (25:59) Right? (25:59) Like, dad does things one way and mom does things another way, and the kids know it just like they do in parenting. (26:04) You know how parents will say, like, oh, go. (26:06) I'm gonna go ask dad because mom said no.
Scott Benner (26:08) Yeah.
Dena (26:08) Same thing happens in diabetes. (26:10) Right? (26:10) So, you know, I put a pump on in a particular way. (26:13) Ruby likes to squeeze in a particular way. (26:16) All of their flavors of independence and interdependence show up in diabetes management.
Dena (26:21) So, yeah, it's it's all of those things at the same time. (26:25) And they do have, you know, as as you know, as everyone who's listening knows, like, they have their preferences in life, and they'll show up in diabetes too. (26:34) Right? (26:34) Whether it's, like, the sites that they prefer or don't. (26:37) Poor Zeke has super sensitive skin, so he has, like, a whole ritual of what we put on before the pump and how he likes it cut and the patches they prefer and, you know, all of the things.
Dena (26:48) Even how they run, like, Zeke tends to sort of I I really say often, like, his his blood sugar often mimics his personality. (26:56) He's like a high high guy and a low low guy. (26:58) He's really, like and that is how his blood sugar looks sometimes, but it's it doesn't faze him, whereas Ruby is much more steady and prefers it that way. (27:06) Last night, we had a pump malfunction, and Ruby said, like, mommy, I don't like, I can't remember when I was that high. (27:13) Maybe two times, she said.
Dena (27:14) You know? (27:15) But she it's just interesting how they they and they look out for each other, and they care for each other. (27:19) I think it's you know, again, like, you don't wanna have to share this with anybody, but they do have a shared experience. (27:24) And they you know, for better or worse, they're in it together.
Scott Benner (27:28) Have you seen that change their relationship at all?
Dena (27:31) Deeply. (27:32) Deeply. (27:33) Yeah.
Scott Benner (27:34) So they've kinda got each other's backs?
Dena (27:37) When Ruby was diagnosed, they both were still MDI, and she would only let two people at school give her injections, the school nurse who is genuinely, like, part of our family and her brother.
Scott Benner (27:51) Oh, oh, he'd come down and help her?
Dena (27:53) And he'd come down and give her a shot before lunch. (27:55) Yep.
Scott Benner (27:56) That must be sweet. (27:58) Right?
Dena (27:58) I mean, yeah. (27:59) Right? (27:59) Like, it's a it's it's just like what they did. (28:03) So, yes, would would I have ever dreamed that my, like, needle phobic 10 year old son would be capable of doing that? (28:08) No.
Dena (28:09) No way. (28:09) And he did. (28:11) You know? (28:11) And so, yeah, they they do they also have a totally normal sibling relationship, hopefully, where they bicker and, you know Yeah. (28:19) Have all the normal sibling things, and they look out for each other.
Dena (28:23) We've also found we have this awesome babysitter who really doesn't babysit anymore. (28:26) She comes and hangs out, but she has type one, and they hang out with her. (28:29) And they all go low together and they all eat candy together. (28:32) And so we try to find people to bring into our life who get it more profoundly even than my husband and I do.
Scott Benner (28:40) Do you know a lot of people with type one or just the babysitter?
Dena (28:43) You know, we know a few. (28:48) There are a few people in our community. (28:51) Not very many in our specific school, but we do know a few. (28:55) And I've found I don't know if this is your experience too, but we found, like, some people are really looking for people in community and other people are not.
Scott Benner (29:02) Mhmm.
Dena (29:02) You know? (29:03) So I I've found a few people who have been really open and shared their experience. (29:08) It's actually another family with siblings in our community. (29:10) And when we were first diagnosed, like, I met the mom for coffee, and she brought me a, like, a huge bag of all their favorite candies for Lowe's and, you know, just, like, in it together. (29:21) I feel like I found my community in kind of sneaky places.
Dena (29:24) So other, you know, parents who have kids recently diagnosed, our endocrinologists, and our educators, most of them have type one and have been, you know, people in our world so that the kids have Zeke actually asked me recently. (29:36) He's a big athlete. (29:37) He was on the lacrosse field, and some kid came up to him and said, hey. (29:40) You have type one too. (29:41) He came home and he said, what do I say when someone says that to me?
Dena (29:46) Like, what's the appropriate response? (29:48) Like, yep. (29:48) I get it. (29:49) So, you know, we we try.
Scott Benner (29:51) I was watching game three of the World Series the other night, And behind home plate to the right is a woman in, like I don't remember how she was dressed, but I remember she was jumping around a lot and cheering and going crazy. (30:04) And there was an Omnipod in her arm. (30:06) And it might be the only thing I could see while I was watching the game. (30:10) I just I just kept thinking like, oh, she has type one. (30:12) And, you know, and she's just bouncing up and down and, like, you know, I don't know what she was doing.
Scott Benner (30:16) She was screaming and yelling. (30:18) I don't know that in a million years, if Arden didn't have diabetes, if I didn't know all you guys, like, I I don't think I ever would have noticed that thing on her, ever.
Dena (30:26) No. (30:27) And then Yeah. (30:27) And now you notice it everywhere. (30:29) Right? (30:29) You have, like, little Dexcom radar.
Scott Benner (30:31) Yeah. (30:32) I know. (30:32) Right away, you're like, oh, there's a bump in somebody's, like, on the side of their pants or, like, you know, you can see CGMs on people and it is interesting how it shifts your focus. (30:42) Yeah. (30:42) How much are you involved in decision making for diabetes, for carb counting, for that kind of stuff, devices being put on, taken off, etcetera, and how much are they handling on their own?
Dena (30:55) Good question also. (30:56) Honestly, my kids are pretty amazing at working towards independence, and they're really motivated. (31:03) Motivated. (31:04) So I think that, like, I feel grateful for that. (31:07) I think that that's just intrinsic to their personality is their kids who are just, like, really motivated to mastery in a lot of things in the world, and diabetes isn't that different for them.
Dena (31:17) I think that my husband and I have spent a lot of time really intentionally talking about this question specifically of, like, how much should we do and how much should they do? (31:27) And I've learned a ton from you too, Scott. (31:29) Like, listening to your journey and and other people on the podcast, I feel like it's a real space where there's just not a right or best answer.
Scott Benner (31:36) Mhmm.
Dena (31:37) So I I feel like I'm always open to, like, what's the right thing to do? (31:40) But generally speaking, the kids are very independent considering their ages, and they are also very reliant on us for being a sounding board. (31:50) You know, we have all of these systems in place that it's, like, funny when you ask them, like, oh, what do we do? (31:55) And then I think, oh, wait. (31:56) We do a lot of things.
Dena (31:57) So when they go to school, we have a text chain between us and the nurses for each kid. (32:02) Zeke at school, Ruby at school. (32:04) And I text the number of carbs in their lunch every morning. (32:07) My husband and I make lunches for them every morning almost. (32:11) And the nurse thumbs up the text, and then the kids have little Zeke uses a rocket ship emoji to let us know he's dosing.
Dena (32:19) Mhmm. (32:19) Ruby just texts dosing, and sometimes it comes out dozing or doing or some funny little kid, you know, typo.
Scott Benner (32:26) Wait till it comes out. (32:27) I'm an adult, and I don't need your help with this.
Dena (32:32) You know, sometimes there are those, passive messages, but we kinda, like, have, you know, communication where they just report back. (32:39) When Ruby does hot lunch at school, she takes a picture of her tray and takes a guess at the carbs, and 99.9% of the time, she's absolutely accurate. (32:46) Mhmm. (32:47) You know? (32:47) So I think, like, we're building their independence.
Dena (32:50) That's our goal at least. (32:51) And then there are times when we we're we're originally from Colorado, so we go skiing a lot. (32:55) And we when we go skiing, they will say, like, you hold the phone. (33:00) You do it. (33:00) Like, I wanna go have fun.
Dena (33:02) And so as a family, we put on the giant red backpack, and we just, like, go cruise, and the kids know that they're sort of leaving their management to us. (33:09) They're always, of course you know? (33:10) And then they say, I feel low on the chairlift or whatever it is. (33:13) But we're you know? (33:14) So I think we we are hopefully sort of developmentally appropriately managing who's in charge and how how we do it.
Scott Benner (33:23) So are you thinking about that from a clinical standpoint or from a parenting standpoint? (33:28) Do you have a mix? (33:30) Because, I mean, I feel like I'm hearing you talk about the way I talk about it, but I don't have any, like, larger words to use. (33:36) So, you know, like, sir seriously, I I think about it like a slow handoff. (33:41) There's no rush to get to the answer.
Scott Benner (33:43) You don't send signals. (33:45) Like, at 12 years old, you need to know this. (33:46) And by the time you're 14, you need to know that. (33:48) It's just like, here are the things that I'm trying to impart to you. (33:52) Some of them take longer than others.
Scott Benner (33:54) The goal is that by the time I mean, I guess everybody thinks about it differently, but I think the goal is by the time you're in your mid twenties, you find yourself thinking like, I know more than these old people, and you're actually probably right. (34:06) And you're making good decisions, and you're okay. (34:08) And you still have the autonomy to turn and ask somebody for advice or help or whatever if you realize you're you're short somewhere. (34:16) I think about life that way. (34:17) I've applied that to type one.
Scott Benner (34:20) But I'm wondering if am I following a book that I don't realize I'm following? (34:24) Or is am I following some sort of whatever my common sense says? (34:28) Or, you know, does that make sense as far as an answer where there's no question mark at the end?
Dena (34:32) Yeah. (34:33) And, like, I wish there was a book. (34:35) Right? (34:35) I I tease in my professional life that I've coined a very few terms in my career, but one of them is your kid is not in a book. (34:43) Like, there's no book for that.
Dena (34:45) And I think that's the same answer here. (34:47) I can't ignore what I know professionally or more specifically just about child development, But that has, of course, helped me as a mom every step of the way, hopefully, for the better for my kids. (34:58) I don't know. (34:59) My husband may disagree, but, you know, I think I think we just do the best we can. (35:04) I think we also have to follow our kids' lead when they are sturdy leaders themselves.
Dena (35:10) I don't feel like I you know, it's funny that you say that you the language sounds different. (35:15) You know, I feel like this is just my my way of parenting, and I try to apply that, like you said, just diabetes too.
Scott Benner (35:22) Right. (35:22) I feel bad for you because I feel like there's things that could happen where you where you would be able to step back and go, oh, our likelihood for heroin use just went up five percent. (35:31) Like, know, like the aces like, you know that aces? (35:34) I love that aces list. (35:35) I really do.
Scott Benner (35:36) Yeah. (35:36) When Erica told me about that, I was like, that's real? (35:40) I was like, oh, thank you. (35:41) Please tell me more about this. (35:43) You know, because it every everything makes so much more sense when you look at it.
Scott Benner (35:46) It also, for me, helps me I'm gonna use a phrase that I don't think sounds natural coming out of my mouth. (35:53) But, like, it helps me to give people grace when I see them struggling with things. (35:57) And, you know, we're doing something that's ponderous, and you're just like, well, how's he gonna not have that happen to him? (36:03) He's got these four things off that list. (36:05) Like, this was definitely gonna happen.
Scott Benner (36:07) How hard is that when you're raising a kid to see something happen and think, uh-oh, we just got 3% closer to a problem? (36:14) And Oh my gosh.
Dena (36:15) I mean, I would be so screwed if I thought about parenting like that, Scott. (36:19) So thank god.
Scott Benner (36:19) No. (36:20) I imagine. (36:20) I'm just wondering if it happens or not.
Dena (36:22) That's all. (36:22) I mean, you know, every once in a while in my darkest moments, I'll, like, think about that. (36:26) But I I try not to in the sense that, like, I just try to be in the moment. (36:30) And every parent catastrophizes. (36:32) Right?
Dena (36:33) Like, when your kid says something, like, oh, no. (36:35) They're
Scott Benner (36:36) This is it.
Dena (36:36) Whatever is gonna happen.
Scott Benner (36:37) Terrible to them. (36:38) Is coming. (36:39) I can see it. (36:40) Yep. (36:40) Yep.
Scott Benner (36:40) No.
Dena (36:40) I'm just like, oh my god. (36:43) So, yeah, of course, I can cast your bread just like every other mommy and maybe even more as a psychologist mommy. (36:48) Mhmm. (36:48) You know? (36:49) Because, yeah, of course, you can't not think about those things.
Dena (36:52) But I also how about this? (36:53) To balance out your aces, I also think about resilience. (36:57) And I I really try because it helps me sleep at night. (37:01) It's like all the things that are terrible that happen when you have a young kid with type one diabetes and all the things that feel terrible as a parent being out of control or navigating, you know, all the things that you always talk about are also balanced out by their strength. (37:16) And truly, that is much more in line with how I like to think and the lens through which I see kids in general.
Dena (37:22) I think I am better at my job because of that too. (37:25) Right. (37:25) And, hopefully, I'm a better mommy because of it too because they are so stinking strong and resilient, and they have you know, they're amazing communicators even when they're not. (37:35) And they're, you know, blocking me or blacklisting me or that went till they turn figure out how to turn us off on dexcom follow one day. (37:43) But also even that, it's sort of like, alright.
Dena (37:45) Well, good luck. (37:46) Hope that serves you.
Scott Benner (37:47) Can I pick through your the way you think about resilience for a second? (37:51) Because I'm a little of two minds on it because for you, using you as an example. (37:56) Right? (37:56) You have two kids that sound like they're pretty bright. (37:59) I mean, they come from like, you know, their parents are both educated and, you know, in the in the medical field.
Scott Benner (38:05) So, I mean, it it to me shows a an understanding and ability to learn and retain things, etcetera. (38:12) Makes sense to me that your, you know, your apple might not have fallen too far from your tree. (38:16) Although, I've seen it I've seen the apple fall, roll down a hill, go over a waterfall, and you think, like, these two people couldn't possibly be more different. (38:23) But sounds like your kids aren't that much different. (38:26) My point is is if I was just talking about it from my perspective or, you know, you're talking about it from your perspective, the kids are resilient, they're strong, they're adjusting, this is awesome, this is how we've set it up, it's working.
Scott Benner (38:37) I also find myself as, a host of of, you know, of a conversation that I realize is being heard by more people than just you and I. (38:45) What about the people who don't have that? (38:48) I hate that society thinks that you either are strong or you're not. (38:53) Like, you know what I mean? (38:54) Like, it's like a decision you made.
Scott Benner (38:55) Like, why don't you just be more resilient or try harder or, you know, who's gonna carry the boats or whatever all those podcasters yell about all the time about how you're gonna be awesome in the world and everything. (39:06) Like, what happens when you're just not you know what I mean? (39:09) Like, like, for whatever reason, wiring, circumstances, trauma, whatever's happened to you before leaves you in a position where you're just not a resilient person. (39:19) Like, shit happens to you and you fold. (39:21) You go, oh my god.
Scott Benner (39:22) I'm gonna lay down now. (39:24) I don't believe that to be a conscious decision. (39:26) It reminds me very much of I'm gonna use this example for the rest of my life. (39:31) Hurricane Katrina, which at this point now is might have been twenty years ago. (39:35) I have no idea how long ago it was.
Scott Benner (39:37) Standing outside of my house talking to one of my neighbors, and he says, don't understand why they didn't leave. (39:43) And I said, can you imagine being so poor or or so something that with days notice, could not escape something that was coming to kill you? (39:53) Mhmm. (39:53) Why would you just act like, I can't believe that they didn't leave? (39:58) How come you can't think, oh my gosh.
Scott Benner (40:00) What's the situation they're in that didn't allow them to leave? (40:04) And I think about their resilience the same way. (40:07) Hope this is making sense. (40:08) Right? (40:08) Like Totally.
Scott Benner (40:09) Yeah. (40:09) Yeah. (40:09) Yeah. (40:10) Like, so there are plenty of people in the world who just, like, see you and you're twenty pounds overweight, and what they think is you don't you eat wrong and you don't exercise. (40:17) What if that's not true?
Scott Benner (40:19) Like, what if you are eating right and you do exercise and you have a genetic issue and you're twenty pounds overweight? (40:24) Or here's one. (40:26) What if you don't eat well and you don't exercise, but you also have three jobs and you're broke? (40:32) And I think, who cares? (40:34) Like, I say, who cares?
Scott Benner (40:35) I don't care how you got there. (40:37) I, in a perfect situation, don't wanna see a human being struggling for any reason whatsoever. (40:42) Why don't we look for ways to help them? (40:45) Taking this all back to resilience, I just don't know. (40:48) Like, there's part of me that loves when you tell me your kids are strong, and there's part of me that feels sad that they have to be.
Scott Benner (40:56) Does that make sense?
Dena (40:57) It's my every day.
Scott Benner (40:59) Okay.
Dena (40:59) Yes.
Scott Benner (40:59) Okay.
Dena (41:00) It makes so much sense. (41:01) And it's notice, you know, my knee jerk response was just to pivot away from the hard stuff because if we sit there for too long, it is. (41:13) Like, why do why do any of these kids I just listened to one of your episodes on the airplane over the weekend of, like, you know, why did this have to happen? (41:22) And we can spend lots and lots of time, and most of us who are parenting in this space have. (41:28) I think you bring up a really valid point too, which is just, like, acknowledging and honoring our privilege in so many different spaces to have resources and access and support systems, all of those things.
Scott Benner (41:40) Dina, can I stop you for a second? (41:42) An irony about me I want everybody to understand. (41:45) When you said that, I I both feel that way and I get what they call douche chills from the from the phrase. (41:51) Like, I I when you're like, we honored our privilege, I'm like, oh god. (41:55) I don't wanna be a person who honors the privilege.
Scott Benner (41:58) I was like, I would just like to be a person. (42:00) Like, it's the wording that throws me out. (42:02) It's really interesting. (42:03) Like, I a 100% agree with you. (42:05) You have to be able to look up once in a while and see just you know what?
Scott Benner (42:09) You have skills, life, whatever. (42:13) However your stew got made, it's resilient in this situation or it works against this thing. (42:18) And I know that is privilege. (42:20) I just I'm like, I'm not from the part of the like, I don't know. (42:24) I hate it when somebody says that.
Dena (42:26) You pulled for it, Scott. (42:28) You pulled for it, and I had to say it because I felt like we gotta name it upfront. (42:32) Like, yeah. (42:33) There's a lot of reasons.
Scott Benner (42:34) You're a 100% right. (42:34) There's a
Dena (42:35) lot of reason people don't leave.
Scott Benner (42:37) When Erica uses, like, what I call therapy words
Dena (42:40) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (42:40) I think, oh, I agree with her. (42:42) And I somehow, like, there's part of me that doesn't wanna be attributed to agreeing with her, but I do and it's because of the wording. (42:48) The only reason I bring it up is because I think there might be a lot of people listening who have the same, like, reaction to it. (42:56) And at the same time, I think that they deserve the courtesy that comes with it. (43:01) So, you know I mean,
Dena (43:02) you taught me a new term, douche chills. (43:05) Now it's forever cemented in my brain.
Scott Benner (43:07) You don't know that word?
Dena (43:08) I don't know that. (43:09) I don't know that term, but now I do. (43:11) And yeah. (43:12) I mean, I feel like we have to just acknowledge it. (43:14) So I don't we don't have to use any terms that give you chills of any kind.
Dena (43:18) But I think it's worth saying, like, we have we we do. (43:22) We are grateful for the resources we have.
Scott Benner (43:24) Yeah.
Dena (43:24) And people can have all the aces in the world if you want you know? (43:29) Like, all of the points against them and still be resilient. (43:34) And so I guess Let
Scott Benner (43:36) me argue the other side. (43:37) When shit gets hard, I expect you to stand up. (43:40) I want you to. (43:41) I want that to be your answer whether it's easy for you or not because I think that's the only answer. (43:47) When a bully jumps on you and starts swinging, if you don't fight back, you're for sure gonna get your ass kicked.
Scott Benner (43:53) So you might get your ass kicked fighting back, but again, I say better going down swinging. (43:59) Right? (44:00) Like, you're not gonna have a chance the other way. (44:02) And there are gonna be people who are listening, like, well, listen. (44:04) I have, like, clinical depression.
Scott Benner (44:05) I can't do it. (44:06) I'm like, I'm no. (44:07) I'm not talking to you. (44:08) You know, I'm talking to everybody who just kinda folds up. (44:12) There's a moment in there, whether you realize it or not, where you you really could just decide, like, I'm gonna stand up and get hit in the face.
Scott Benner (44:18) I'm not gonna get kicked in the side. (44:20) And sometimes people don't do that. (44:23) And it's hard, and I understand. (44:24) Like, sometimes it's the way their minds work just don't lend to fighting. (44:28) Were talking about it last night.
Scott Benner (44:29) We what were we talking about last night? (44:31) The, Arden had a class. (44:32) They were talking oh, I don't know the name of the you're gonna know right away. (44:36) The guy put people in a room, had them push a buzzer. (44:39) They thought they were hurting people in the other room.
Scott Benner (44:41) What the hell was that called? (44:42) That study.
Dena (44:43) Oh, it's like a social psychology experiment, but I do not know the name of
Scott Benner (44:46) the researcher. (44:46) So yeah. (44:48) Like, we were talking about it last night, and we kinda went around the room. (44:52) What would you do if somebody put you on that button and you realized what was going on? (44:56) And Arden looked at like, she's like, dad wouldn't do it.
Scott Benner (45:00) Like, she's like, he just wouldn't. (45:02) He he'd say that's stupid. (45:03) I'm not doing that. (45:04) She's like, don't even know if dad would, like, go to the meeting. (45:06) And she's like, but if he was there and someone said it to him, he'd say, you.
Scott Benner (45:11) I'm not doing that. (45:12) And he'd stop. (45:13) Mhmm. (45:14) And then she kinda went to my wife and we were like, well, you're kind of a people pleaser, like, sometimes. (45:18) Like, maybe if you got into that situation and thought you were doing the right thing, you know, you might do it for a little while, but I think and we just went through our whole we started going, I don't know if other people did this.
Scott Benner (45:27) We went through our extended family, like, oh, I think uncle this would do it and, like, you know what I mean? (45:32) And, like Yeah. (45:32) And we found people in our lives that we think would gleefully have been like, do this. (45:37) They're pushing the button and some people who wouldn't and, you know, all different things. (45:41) So all that stuff about whoever it is you are, you know, when you're you need to be resilient because type one type one sucks.
Scott Benner (45:49) Like, I don't know what your first response is, but I know what your second one should be. (45:54) And I do think that having that second response puts you in a better position to maybe not be you know, find yourself on the ground getting kicked in the ribs. (46:03) So I don't know. (46:04) Yeah. (46:04) I went on for a while there.
Scott Benner (46:05) Anyway, please tell me one thing that no one would know that gives you chills, like, do chills, like, where you're just embarrassed. (46:12) I will tell you mine if you tell me yours.
Dena (46:14) Oh, alright. (46:15) And this is gonna take me a second.
Scott Benner (46:17) Yeah. (46:17) What happens when you're like, oh my god. (46:19) This is very embarrassing. (46:20) I wish this was not happening.
Dena (46:22) Like, what gives me the chills? (46:24) Is that what
Scott Benner (46:24) you're asking? (46:24) Not yeah. (46:25) But not good chills. (46:26) You understand where the phrase comes from. (46:27) Right?
Dena (46:28) Yeah. (46:28) Yeah. (46:28) Oh, yeah. (46:29) Yeah. (46:29) No.
Dena (46:29) But I'm I'm trying to, like, I'm
Scott Benner (46:32) trying give you an ear.
Dena (46:34) Okay. (46:35) Give me yours, and then I'll think about mine.
Scott Benner (46:36) Every time I hear the song Barracuda by heart and the music pauses and they yell Barracuda, I get douchebels. (46:46) I'm like, this is ridiculous. (46:50) And I'm not unaware that it's a good song. (46:52) It's the one part where it's and then the music stops and they yell barracuda. (46:56) I'm like, I feel like we could have done something different in that spot.
Scott Benner (46:59) But Mhmm. (47:00) Nothing that embarrasses you and, like, makes you upset for humanity?
Dena (47:05) It's like embarrassed for others. (47:07) Yeah. (47:07) I'm really Alright. (47:08) Gonna have to
Scott Benner (47:09) think about this. (47:09) We'll come back to it. (47:10) Don't worry about it.
Dena (47:11) Yeah. (47:11) No. (47:12) Now I'm like, I really wanna have a good answer, but I'm I'm
Scott Benner (47:15) I'm very judgmental about the harpsong Barracuda. (47:18) I just wanna say that. (47:19) And I had to sit through I had to sit through them live one time to see Black Crows. (47:25) And they they sang that damn song and almost ruined my evening. (47:31) Also, black girls were excellent live back before the brothers realized they hated each other.
Scott Benner (47:36) I just wanna say that too.
Dena (47:38) Okay.
Scott Benner (47:38) I'm sorry. (47:38) Okay. (47:39) When you tell me your kids are strong and they're resilient, what do you mean by that exactly?
Dena (47:45) I mean, I think that you you kind of nailed it when you said, I hope that there are kids who go down swinging and also figure out how to get back up.
Scott Benner (47:58) Mhmm.
Dena (48:00) You know?
Scott Benner (48:00) A little water off the duck's back too. (48:02) Right?
Dena (48:03) Yeah. (48:04) Yeah. (48:04) Yeah. (48:05) I do a little turtle with my hand and I say it just rolls off your back.
Scott Benner (48:08) Nice.
Dena (48:09) Yeah. (48:10) I don't I mean, I think I don't I agree with you. (48:13) I don't I don't think we know how we become resilient. (48:18) In fact, during COVID, I dug pretty deep too into, like, both research and also my own heart of, like, how are we gonna get through this? (48:26) Mhmm.
Dena (48:26) So, you know, I I don't it's sort of a entity that we don't fully understand. (48:32) So I hope to do it by, you know, like, showing them modeling and by also just, like, ugh, being there when they do fall down because of type one diabetes, they do so much.
Scott Benner (48:42) What did you come up with? (48:44) What did you come up with during COVID? (48:46) Because I'll tell came up with one.
Dena (48:48) Yeah. (48:48) I I go ahead.
Scott Benner (48:50) No. (48:50) I would just give me a half a second, then I wanna hear your thing. (48:53) I just went with, oh, we paused society. (48:57) Like, I I'm getting a break in the middle of my life is how it felt. (49:00) And I know that's because I didn't have to go to a job outside of the house or something like that.
Scott Benner (49:04) There's a lot oh my god. (49:05) There's a lot of privilege in that. (49:07) Sorry. (49:08) But it's it's the right thing to say there.
Dena (49:10) Gotcha. (49:11) Yeah. (49:11) Gotcha.
Scott Benner (49:14) I make a podcast, so I was pretty much like, oh, you know, I don't know how much different COVID was than my regular life because I don't get out of here enough to begin with. (49:22) Right? (49:23) But when everyone was in that same situation, like, you could kinda segment your brain the illness part, right, like, put that off to the side and say to yourself, well, like, I'm not old or particularly unhealthy. (49:34) I think I'm gonna be fine through this. (49:36) You know, I felt pretty comfortable about that.
Scott Benner (49:38) The truth is is we saved money for the first time in years because you don't realize all the things you're pissing money away on, like going to dinner or, like, little stuff like that that uses up more of your money than you think. (49:49) Right? (49:49) Yeah. (49:50) So, like, we're starting to save money. (49:51) And I'm like, oh my god.
Scott Benner (49:52) It's the Kelly. (49:53) I'm like, this COVID thing is gonna make us, like, solvent. (49:55) It's like, it's gonna be crazy. (49:57) And at the same time, like, life stopped. (50:00) Yeah.
Scott Benner (50:00) Like, people and I was like, oh, this is like a break from society. (50:04) It's like a break from the grind. (50:06) It went on too long. (50:07) Don't get me wrong. (50:08) But, like, in the beginning, I thought that.
Scott Benner (50:10) Now when it got long, then it got worrisome. (50:14) Because then you're like, oh my god. (50:16) Are they ever letting us get the hell out of here again? (50:18) You know, like, is this gonna go that way? (50:20) And but even to that, I said to myself, nah.
Scott Benner (50:23) It'll end eventually. (50:25) Yeah. (50:26) Like, just hang out and enjoy the break. (50:28) And my kids were around more. (50:30) Like, I found ways to look at it as, like I mean, it wasn't positive, but I tried to find the positive in it as much as I could.
Dena (50:36) Oh, look at you. (50:36) Sneaky, sneaky optimism. (50:39) I feel resilience there.
Scott Benner (50:40) Exactly. (50:41) No. (50:41) I mean, I Yeah. (50:42) I understand when people say that there's things about having type one diabetes they wouldn't give away. (50:47) I've had conversations with people who say like, you you give them the magic wand.
Scott Benner (50:51) You say, if I gave you a magic wand, would you make your diabetes go away? (50:54) Thinking everybody would say yes. (50:55) There are people who say no because they think it's made them what they are, where they identify with it at this point. (51:02) It's interesting. (51:03) But I'm sorry.
Scott Benner (51:03) During COVID, you
Dena (51:05) No. (51:06) I I I think all of this is very relevant and so interesting, and I think about it a lot for better or worse. (51:13) You know, I guess I'll answer two ways. (51:14) One, specific to diabetes, like, my husband and I often people say, like, oh, you know, you two are the best suited to do this for anyone, and we often roll our eyes. (51:25) And I often say, you know, you don't want to have to find out that you could do hard things Yeah.
Dena (51:31) Well Yeah. (51:32) Together. (51:32) Right? (51:32) Like, I don't wish that for any couple. (51:35) I don't want to have to put you to the test.
Dena (51:37) But, unfortunately, life happened, and, like, we were put to the test. (51:40) And I feel I feel happy and extremely grateful that I have a partner who, like, does hard shit with me really well.
Scott Benner (51:48) I don't know how to think about that part. (51:50) I still can't I'm getting older and I still don't know how to think about that part. (51:53) I'm adopted. (51:54) Right? (51:55) My adopted parents get divorced.
Scott Benner (51:57) I grew up really broke. (51:59) I think that all these things have a lot to do with how I get through life, and I'm happy about how I get through life. (52:04) But once in a while, like, you throw on, like, I don't know, an app and you're scrolling TikTok and you see someone whose life is so vapid and and devoid of any kind of friction whatsoever, and there is a part of you that's like, I maybe would I like to know what that feels like? (52:22) Like like, would I like to not have any context for the world? (52:26) Like, maybe that would be awesome for a day or a little while or something.
Scott Benner (52:30) But I think when I come down to it eventually, I think no. (52:34) I think I'd prefer to be me and have context than not, but I also don't know what it's like to live unencumbered like that. (52:42) Like, maybe it's awesome. (52:44) You know what I mean? (52:45) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (52:45) Yeah. (52:46) Anyway. (52:47) Yeah. (52:47) Well,
Dena (52:48) I'll I'll leave you with my last response to to
Scott Benner (52:51) Yeah. (52:51) Please.
Dena (52:51) Resilience that I that I did draw on honestly. (52:54) And, yeah, full disclosure. (52:56) Like, I read the research. (52:57) I was like, what are we gonna do? (52:58) Mhmm.
Dena (53:00) For kids, they I were I mostly work with kids, but I think it kind of relates to diabetes. (53:04) And, honestly, it relates to the podcast is what the research showed in kids is there was sort of this, like, secret sauce for some kids, especially during horrible catastrophes. (53:17) So, you know, hurricane Katrina, probably COVID, although it was happening live time when I was reading this stuff. (53:23) And there was one researcher named Ann Masten, and she came up with the term ordinary magic. (53:30) And, essentially, kids who experience horrible, horrible things, trauma, tragedy, if they had one adult who just sort of held them at the center of their world, she called it ordinary magic.
Dena (53:43) It sort of transcended tragedy, or it helped them plant the seeds of what you're asking. (53:48) What is resilience? (53:49) How do we define it? (53:50) Mhmm. (53:50) The truth is, like, I don't know.
Dena (53:51) I don't feel like I have a very good answer for you.
Scott Benner (53:53) Yeah.
Dena (53:53) But I do know that holding on to the idea that, like, if you make a difference in one little person's life and be that person, it does matter. (54:02) And I know it sounds, yeah, a little douche douche
Scott Benner (54:04) I know. (54:05) I didn't get I liked it. (54:06) Like so hold hold them. (54:08) Yeah. (54:08) I'll let you know what's douchey.
Scott Benner (54:09) And right now, it's barracuda. (54:11) Okay? (54:11) It's my god. (54:13) The the music just stops and they yell barracuda. (54:16) Psychologically, is it because the music gets quiet and I feel like it's turn like, maybe I feel exposed during that.
Scott Benner (54:23) I wonder. (54:23) That's not for now. (54:25) Hold a young person at the center of how did you put that?
Dena (54:29) Oh, I don't know. (54:31) I don't like to have to quote it again. (54:32) Just sort of like holding a young person at the center of of your world, making them feel the most important or just playing with them on the floor, getting into their little world, and helping them feel seen when all these terrible things are happening around them.
Scott Benner (54:47) Protected. (54:49) Yeah. (54:49) A sense of home. (54:51) There's a protector there. (54:52) Somebody's got your back.
Scott Benner (54:53) That whole feeling like you if an adult helps a child feel that way, what? (54:58) What happens for them?
Dena (54:59) They are more likely to turn out okay.
Scott Benner (55:03) Really? (55:04) Yeah. (55:05) Opposite aces list.
Dena (55:07) Exactly.
Scott Benner (55:08) Yeah.
Dena (55:09) That's correct.
Scott Benner (55:10) Is there that? (55:11) Oh.
Dena (55:11) Yeah. (55:11) There is that.
Scott Benner (55:13) How come I've never wondered that?
Dena (55:15) No. (55:15) It it is. (55:15) It's well, protective factors, I guess, is what we would say.
Scott Benner (55:18) Okay.
Dena (55:19) But they there's some cool new terminology for it too. (55:23) And I'm not it's not coming to my mind right now.
Scott Benner (55:25) I'll figure it out. (55:26) I have a computer. (55:27) I I can Yeah.
Dena (55:28) But, I mean, the protective factors. (55:29) But one of them is just this ordinary magic. (55:32) And I feel like, honestly, at the risk of sounding kind of cheesy, it's it's like why I'm here. (55:37) It's why I found your podcast. (55:39) It's because I think if you sort of touch one person who then helps one kid, you know, seen or better or that they can go down swinging, like you said, I I think we've done right.
Dena (55:50) You know, I'm I'm also a psychologist, so I I was trained to think that too, but I think it's how I always thought about the world.
Scott Benner (55:56) Tell me about what what about the podcast is attractive to you?
Dena (55:59) Just the feeling of, like, there's other people out there who get this. (56:03) Yeah. (56:04) There's other people out there who get me. (56:06) I just listened to one of your little cute episodes about, like, had a bowl of fruit meal. (56:10) Mhmm.
Dena (56:10) And I was like, ugh. (56:12) It just feels like, yeah. (56:13) You're speaking my language. (56:14) I don't have to explain myself. (56:16) So there's just a relief in having a community that understands our experience, especially as parents.
Scott Benner (56:22) Okay. (56:22) Is there something about how I do it or the way the conversations go that are particularly attractive to you? (56:29) Or are you in one of those situations where you don't actually like me a lot, but you like the content? (56:34) Or, like, does that make sense? (56:35) Because there are people who really don't like me that still listen to the podcast, which I find I think it's because I bring together the people they're interested in listening to.
Scott Benner (56:43) But, like, I mean, the is it your thing? (56:45) Like, would I be your thing if this was a podcast about something else? (56:49) Or you see what I'm asking?
Dena (56:51) I like you, Scott. (56:52) That's what you're asking.
Scott Benner (56:53) Oh, okay. (56:54) That's not what I was asking, but that's okay. (56:56) Good.
Dena (56:56) Keep going. (56:56) No. (56:57) I love the way this is going now. (56:58) Your style. (57:00) I like the conversations.
Dena (57:01) I wish I had more time. (57:02) Is genuinely how I feel. (57:04) Like, I I don't have time to listen to all the things I'd like to listen to.
Scott Benner (57:07) Sure.
Dena (57:07) And I also experience a little bit of burnout sometimes with, like, the con with just the content in general. (57:13) Like, sometimes I need my diabetes info, and I need to, like, get it, and I need to get out. (57:18) Mhmm. (57:18) You know? (57:18) Like, I I think that's part of my experience is I'm gonna, like, lean in.
Dena (57:22) I actually just was talking to a girlfriend on my way to meet with you, and she said, you never talk publicly that day. (57:27) You know, we're not the family that, like, does the walk and puts up all the Facebook things. (57:31) Like, we just started again, I just kinda follow my kids' lead on that. (57:35) And so I don't, like, wave my diabetes flag my diabetes mommy flag around a lot.
Scott Benner (57:40) Right.
Dena (57:40) And when I do, it takes a lot of energy. (57:42) It's hiring. (57:43) So I think I save my podcast, my my juice box moments for, like, my sort of private, like, I need to fill my cup. (57:50) I need to get my info. (57:51) My husband does not listen.
Dena (57:53) He listened to a few episodes because I've, like, hunted them his way. (57:56) Yeah. (57:56) He gets really oversaturated really fast. (57:59) And so I think, you know, I like sort of, like, the quick tips and tricks and things that I can stash away because I use them all the freaking time. (58:05) Like, all the time.
Scott Benner (58:06) Good. (58:07) Good.
Dena (58:07) And then I also have to, like, you know, consume with care too.
Scott Benner (58:12) In another episode that you haven't heard yet, but people listening may have just heard recently, I talked about being at a public event well, private event, excuse me, where I was speaking to about 650 people. (58:24) And I was telling I was responding to a question, telling an emotional story, and somehow, one of the people in the audience has sympathetic God, I forget what they call it now. (58:37) Anyway, he gets chest pains and passes out if he gets filled with too much empathy. (58:43) Syncope. (58:44) Or no, not syncope.
Scott Benner (58:45) There's a word they used. (58:46) I can't remember what it was. (58:47) Anyway, I'm telling a story and I made a guy pass out. (58:52) Just yeah. (58:52) So Oh.
Scott Benner (58:53) Yeah. (58:54) So it was, like, you know, he was okay. (58:56) Like, he kinda lost it for a second, came back. (58:58) They were able to help him. (59:00) It's a thing they know happens to he knows happens to him.
Scott Benner (59:02) He did you know, EMS came but he didn't leave the premises, like, the whole thing. (59:06) That's not the point of the story. (59:08) The that was just enough for context for you. (59:10) The story is this. (59:12) This happens while I'm speaking.
Scott Benner (59:14) Like, I see motion out ahead of me that's on I don't know how to put it. (59:18) If you've ever been up on stage, you know, like, the you don't actually look at anybody. (59:22) Usually, pick a couple of people and look them in the face if you're talking. (59:26) I happen to be in a situation where I was lit, so you really can't see anything but silhouettes. (59:31) And one of the silhouettes moved oddly.
Scott Benner (59:34) Uh-oh. (59:34) And I knew it. (59:35) Like, I like, your brain's like, that wasn't right. (59:38) Like, the motion wasn't right. (59:40) And I I turned my head in time to hear somebody said, we need help.
Dena (59:44) Great.
Scott Benner (59:44) And so it all kinda devolves from there the way you would expect. (59:48) You know, at first, people are calm, then you see what's going on. (59:51) Some people rush over to help, trying to get him out of the room to help him privately, but he can't make it. (59:57) That makes them dump the 650 people out of the room into the into the hall. (1:00:02) And so now we're out there mulling around.
Scott Benner (1:00:04) You know, EMS comes in with a gurney. (1:00:06) It's all kinda scary and everything. (1:00:08) People are, you know, are experiencing this altogether. (1:00:12) And ten minutes later, they take him away. (1:00:14) And like I said, he didn't even leave the premises.
Scott Benner (1:00:16) He was fine. (1:00:17) And they move everybody else back into the room. (1:00:20) And I go to the person running it, and I go, you know, if you get my mic back on, I can keep going. (1:00:26) And she looked at me like I was a sociopath. (1:00:31) And I thought, oh my god, what's happening?
Scott Benner (1:00:34) And she goes, no. (1:00:35) We're gonna give everybody the hour off. (1:00:37) You know, you can do your other talk later in the day, but we're cutting this one short. (1:00:40) And I and, you know, these people need time to process. (1:00:45) And I was like, no, they don't.
Scott Benner (1:00:46) Just tell them to sit the down and we'll keep going. (1:00:48) Like, it'll be fine. (1:00:49) Like, you know and I realized in that moment, I'm not a sociopath, at least not for that reason, if I am. (1:00:57) But I but what I am is somebody who's been through so much that this was not upsetting to me. (1:01:02) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (1:01:02) I was like, oh, we dealt with it. (1:01:04) He's okay. (1:01:05) Let's keep going. (1:01:07) Yeah. (1:01:07) And I really, for a half a second, looked out in the room and I thought, I wish I could talk to all these people right now.
Scott Benner (1:01:13) Like, I wanna know how many of them were like, yeah. (1:01:16) Let's get to lunch so I can process this.
Dena (1:01:19) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (1:01:20) And how many of them were like, yo. (1:01:22) Let's keep going. (1:01:23) You know, like like, okay, he's good. (1:01:25) Like, life moves on. (1:01:27) Let's go.
Scott Benner (1:01:28) And I guess I'm answering my own question from earlier because I like that about myself. (1:01:33) Like, I could have sat back down and just kept going. (1:01:36) Like, this was not nearly the this doesn't even, like, make my list of bad things that's happened to me. (1:01:42) You you know what I mean? (1:01:43) And Totally.
Scott Benner (1:01:45) Yeah. (1:01:45) Yeah. (1:01:45) Yeah. (1:01:45) So, anyway, I just wanted to tell you that. (1:01:48) But that's that's how I judged your husband, and then I went to this.
Scott Benner (1:01:50) I feel like your husband would have been like, a lot has happened here. (1:01:53) We should take a break and then have lunch. (1:01:55) Is he that person, or am I unfairly shining this light on him?
Dena (1:02:00) I think that it's more he he really needs to he's really good at compartmentalizing, and I suck at it. (1:02:07) Oh, And so so he, like, he wants to, like, open the diabetes box, close the diabetes box. (1:02:13) And then yeah. (1:02:13) Then he wants to, like, go have lunch.
Scott Benner (1:02:15) Is he protecting himself, you think?
Dena (1:02:17) I think, yeah. (1:02:18) Definitely. (1:02:19) Yeah. (1:02:19) Oh, yeah. (1:02:20) It's too much.
Dena (1:02:20) He's so he's just yeah. (1:02:22) He's a deeply feeling guy, and you talk about it all the time. (1:02:25) And also gets I don't know. (1:02:26) Takes over all the little corners if you let it.
Scott Benner (1:02:28) Yeah.
Dena (1:02:29) So I think it's also protective. (1:02:30) You know?
Scott Benner (1:02:31) Keep he's keeping it from being his entire life and maybe keeping himself from feeling that both of his kids were diagnosed with type one diabetes thirty days apart and all the autoimmunes on his side of the family. (1:02:43) Right? (1:02:43) I mean, you've thought about that before. (1:02:44) Right? (1:02:45) It's his fault, not yours.
Scott Benner (1:02:46) Of course. (1:02:46) I understand. (1:02:46) Well All I know is I have seen stuff and lived through it and pressed on to the point where what I just described you, which is me on stage with lights in my face with 650 people hanging on what I'm saying. (1:03:04) And then this happens in the middle of the thing. (1:03:06) And I just thought, like, alright.
Scott Benner (1:03:08) Well, let's keep going. (1:03:09) And I wondered after I realized that about myself, wondered how many people would judge me as callous. (1:03:15) Do you know what I mean? (1:03:16) But, like, in the end, that they couldn't keep going, I actually thought to myself, like, this is some white people right here. (1:03:21) Just sit back down.
Scott Benner (1:03:23) We're okay. (1:03:23) He's fine. (1:03:24) They just told you he's fine. (1:03:25) Keep going. (1:03:26) Like, be an adult.
Scott Benner (1:03:27) Like, process it and let's go. (1:03:28) But and by way, I wanna say this too in case they're listening. (1:03:31) I don't think they did anything wrong. (1:03:33) I understand what they did. (1:03:34) And from a professional standpoint, I probably would have made the same decision.
Scott Benner (1:03:38) Like, I just think that, like, talking about it and breaking it down like this, like, those were my internal thoughts. (1:03:44) My internal thoughts were like, I can keep going. (1:03:47) Anyway, not the problem.
Dena (1:03:49) There you go. (1:03:50) Yeah. (1:03:50) That's the definition though. (1:03:51) Right? (1:03:52) The definition is like and you're right.
Dena (1:03:53) Some people can't. (1:03:55) Right. (1:03:55) And I don't always believe it's because that they've of of their life experience. (1:04:00) I think sometimes it's like an inside factor that we don't even really understand very well. (1:04:05) Like, why are you a guy who can keep going?
Dena (1:04:07) There's also a guy who would jump off the stage and go try to rescue that person even though you have no business doing that. (1:04:11) Yeah. (1:04:12) Right? (1:04:12) Or that would be overly invested in that person's story and now have them on the podcast. (1:04:16) And, like, there's lots of different ways to respond to that type of adversity, and you're right.
Dena (1:04:21) Like, I I you just defined it for yourself. (1:04:23) Like, I'm the guy who can just keep going. (1:04:25) And it's not because you don't care or because but you were told, like, he's okay. (1:04:29) So we're gonna just okay. (1:04:30) We're gonna move on.
Scott Benner (1:04:30) I assessed it very quickly. (1:04:32) I turned to the woman next to me who I knew knew him and I said, does he have type one diabetes? (1:04:36) And she said, no. (1:04:37) And I said, well, then I ain't gonna be much help.
Dena (1:04:40) I have no business helping.
Scott Benner (1:04:41) I mean, if that guy's blood sugar is low, y'all should back up. (1:04:44) I know what to do. (1:04:45) Right? (1:04:45) Like but if that's not the case, then I'm not valuable here. (1:04:49) And Yep.
Scott Benner (1:04:50) There are enough people around him that could help him keep from hurting himself or whatever, which it didn't look like it was gonna happen anyway. (1:04:56) And Yep. (1:04:56) Somebody had already gone for e like like, somebody had called for EMS. (1:05:00) Like, I was like, I should get out of the way. (1:05:03) Like, I I I I at one point, I actually thought this was a private situation.
Scott Benner (1:05:07) I shouldn't even be looking at this. (1:05:09) And, you know, once somebody had him, I walked out of the room. (1:05:12) Like, I I started leaving the room as they were saying, we should all go I was like, yeah, no kidding. (1:05:16) We shouldn't be gawking while this is happening to him. (1:05:18) Yeah.
Scott Benner (1:05:19) You
Dena (1:05:19) know? (1:05:19) Right. (1:05:20) Also very adaptive to just walk away. (1:05:22) Right? (1:05:22) Let people whose job it is to take care of him take care of him.
Scott Benner (1:05:24) Five seconds later, I was out in the hall and some lady was like, oh my god, you were like, I'm so sorry. (1:05:29) Your thing got cut short. (1:05:30) And and she started it's funny how quickly it pivoted because this lovely woman got me outside and she's like, I'm so sorry. (1:05:37) I'm not gonna get to hear the rest of what you have to say. (1:05:40) She said, you're such an eloquent speaker.
Scott Benner (1:05:43) And I, right away, like, I smiled and said, thank you. (1:05:46) But ask people who know me privately. (1:05:49) I've now been talking about that for a week because I don't believe myself to be an eloquent speaker. (1:05:53) When she said it to me, I was like, oh, god. (1:05:57) Like, I I I can't even begin to tell you what I what, like, the the rabbit hole my head went down.
Scott Benner (1:06:03) Like, I was like, I'm not an eloquent speaker. (1:06:05) What does that say about her? (1:06:05) What does it say about me? (1:06:07) Like, what is it like, how is she taking me? (1:06:09) Like, well, how am I like, I why would she think that of me?
Scott Benner (1:06:12) Like, self doubt inside about that. (1:06:14) You should and Cool. (1:06:16) Please, he was still on the floor, and I was in I was already moving on to, like, thought thing. (1:06:23) So anyway, so you like the podcast because it's, like, sameness. (1:06:28) You can get some information from it.
Scott Benner (1:06:29) You can walk away from it when you need to, but it's there when you come back. (1:06:33) Am I am I about getting this right?
Dena (1:06:35) Yeah. (1:06:35) Okay.
Scott Benner (1:06:36) And I'm I I'm somehow entertaining to you even though you're on the West Coast. (1:06:41) The podcast is huge in California. (1:06:43) And yet, I don't, like, think I'm always interested that about that because I do have as much as I don't like to think of people as having, like, regional differences, I realize that that's actually true. (1:06:56) I just don't like thinking about people that way. (1:06:58) I prefer to think we're all kind of the same.
Scott Benner (1:07:01) But I get that like, I've heard people say that, like, I'm coarse or they call me East Coast or something like that. (1:07:08) Yeah. (1:07:09) You know? (1:07:10) And I don't know what that means.
Dena (1:07:12) Yeah. (1:07:12) Well, that's a whole subculture. (1:07:15) I'm I am from from Colorado. (1:07:17) I went to school on the East Coast and have stayed. (1:07:19) I'm actually here.
Dena (1:07:20) I'm here on your coast.
Scott Benner (1:07:21) Oh. (1:07:21) Oh, so you have both experiences?
Dena (1:07:24) Yeah. (1:07:24) But I totally oh, yeah. (1:07:25) I'll I'll when I went to college, people would say, well, like, where are you really from? (1:07:29) Like, is that, like like, you said you're from Denver, but, like, what's your address?
Scott Benner (1:07:34) Nobody's really from Denver. (1:07:36) That's a mountain, isn't Yeah.
Dena (1:07:38) Exactly. (1:07:38) Or or right. (1:07:39) And because if you're from Boston, like, you're really not from Boston. (1:07:41) Right? (1:07:42) You're from Newton or Needham or right?
Dena (1:07:43) Like, no one's really from Boston.
Scott Benner (1:07:45) Right.
Dena (1:07:46) So yeah. (1:07:47) I think there are some some geographic stereotypes for sure.
Scott Benner (1:07:52) Speaking of sneaky things, I I love the way you just slipped in to make sure we knew you went to a good school in in Massachusetts. (1:07:58) That was nice.
Dena (1:07:58) There's a lot of schools in Massachusetts. (1:08:01) Watch it.
Scott Benner (1:08:02) I sniffed this right out. (1:08:03) I know what you're doing. (1:08:04) Don't you worry.
Dena (1:08:06) Good job. (1:08:07) Scott, I am so sorry that I'm gonna have to hang up, but I have to get back to my office for some
Scott Benner (1:08:13) crazy stuff. (1:08:14) Freaking people and their jobs. (1:08:15) I'm so sorry.
Dena (1:08:16) Well, you know, I gotta I gotta get back. (1:08:19) Someone's gotta bring home the bacon.
Scott Benner (1:08:20) I'll say thank you very much for doing this. (1:08:22) I thought this is a really interesting conversation. (1:08:24) I appreciate it very much. (1:08:25) I hope you enjoyed it as well.
Dena (1:08:27) I really did, and I I am extremely grateful. (1:08:30) So thank you.
Scott Benner (1:08:31) Thank you
Dena (1:08:31) so much. (1:08:31) No.
Scott Benner (1:08:32) You're you're terrific. (1:08:33) I'm gonna hit pause. (1:08:33) Just give me two seconds, and I'll let you go. (1:08:35) Thank you. (1:08:42) Are you tired of getting a rash from your CGM adhesive?
Scott Benner (1:08:45) Give the Eversense three sixty five a try. (1:08:48) Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. (1:08:51) Beautiful silicone that they use. (1:08:53) It changes every day. (1:08:54) Keeps it fresh.
Scott Benner (1:08:55) Not only that, you only have to change the sensor once a year. (1:08:58) So, I mean, that's better. (1:09:01) Head now to tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox and check out today's sponsor, Tandem Diabetes Care. (1:09:08) I think you're gonna find exactly what you're looking for at that link, including a way to sign up and get started with the Tandem Mobi system. (1:09:16) Arden has been getting her diabetes supplies from US Med for three years.
Scott Benner (1:09:20) You can as well. (1:09:22) Usmed.com/juicebox or Paul, (888) 721-1514. (1:09:29) My thanks to US Med for sponsoring this episode and for being longtime sponsors of the Juice Box Podcast. (1:09:35) There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com to US Med and all of the sponsors. (1:09:45) As the holidays approach, I wanna thank all of my good friends for coming back to the Juice Box Podcast over and over again.
Scott Benner (1:09:52) It means the world to me. (1:09:53) It's the greatest gift you could give me. (1:09:55) Thank you so very much. (1:09:57) Unless, of course, you wanna share the show with someone else, then that would be an awesome gift too or a five star review. (1:10:01) I don't know.
Scott Benner (1:10:02) You don't really owe me a gift, but, I mean, if you're looking for something to do. (1:10:05) You know, subscribe and follow, tell a friend, etcetera. (1:10:07) Thank you. (1:10:08) Merry Christmas. (1:10:09) Oh my, did I get lucky.
Scott Benner (1:10:11) The Celebrity Cruise Line reached out to me and said, how would you like to come on a cruise before your Juice Cruise so you can get a real good look at the Celebrity Beyond cruise ship and share some video with your listeners? (1:10:25) I said, thank you. (1:10:28) So that's where I might be right now. (1:10:30) If it's December, let me actually find a date for you. (1:10:33) Not a 100% sure.
Scott Benner (1:10:34) I think I'm going in December right before Christmas. (1:10:38) Like, you know, like, I don't know, like, the December. (1:10:41) I'm sorry. (1:10:42) I know this isn't much of a that. (1:10:43) But if you wanna see video from me on the cruise ship, my wife and I are gonna head out and really check it out to see what it's all about to grab some great video for you.
Scott Benner (1:10:52) Get it up on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook so you can see what you'd be getting if you came along on Juice Cruise 2026, which, of course, leaves from Miami on 06/21/2026. (1:11:04) We're gonna be going to Coco Cay in The Bahamas, San Juan, Puerto Rico, Saint Kitts And Nevis. (1:11:09) Do not miss it. (1:11:09) It's a great opportunity to meet other people living with type one diabetes to form friendships, to learn things, and just swap stories. (1:11:17) It's a relaxing vacation with a bunch of people who get what your life is like.
Scott Benner (1:11:22) And trust me, there's a lot of value in that. (1:11:24) Juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. (1:11:28) Come check it out and go find my socials to see what that ship looks like. (1:11:32) There's also a video at my link that's, kind of a ship tour with the celebrity beyond. (1:11:37) And let me tell you something.
Scott Benner (1:11:38) If this ship is a tenth as nice as this video is, I am in for a great time, and so are you. (1:11:45) Juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. (1:11:48) Come along. (1:11:50) Have a podcast? (1:11:51) Want it to sound fantastic?
Scott Benner (1:11:52) Wrongwayrecording.com.
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#1708 Bolus 4 - Sonic Tater Tots
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
Scott and Jenny tackle Sonic Tater Tots. Learn strategies for high-fat, processed carbs using the MEAL BOLT method to keep glucose in range.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:00) Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. (0:14) In every episode of bolus four, Jenny Smith and I are gonna take a few minutes to talk through how to bolus for a single item of food. (0:22) Jenny and I are gonna follow a little bit of a road map called meal bolt. (0:26) Measure the meal. (0:28) Evaluate yourself.
Scott Benner (0:29) Add the base units. (0:30) Layer a correction. (0:32) Build the bolus shape. (0:33) Offset the timing. (0:34) Look at the CGM.
Scott Benner (0:36) Tweak for next time. (0:38) Having said that, these episodes are gonna be very conversational and not incredibly technical. (0:43) We want you to hear how we think about it, but we also would like you to know that this is kind of the pathway we're considering while we're talking about it. (0:51) So while you might not hear us say every letter of Miele Bolt in every episode, we will be thinking about it while we're talking. (0:58) If you wanna learn more, go to juiceboxpodcast.com/meal-bolt.
Scott Benner (1:04) But for now, we'll find out how to bowl us for today's subject. (1:10) While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:18) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. (1:30) Jenny, I put up a post on the good old Internet, and I asked people what
Jenny Smith (1:37) did I say? (1:37) Let me see what I said.
Scott Benner (1:38) Joe, very simple. (1:39) What restaurant foods give you the most trouble when you're trying to bolus? (1:43) Let's make a list. (1:44) There's some vague stuff here, but there's also people are saying, like, absolutely, like, specific restaurants.
Jenny Smith (1:51) That's why was wondering if it was just items like french fries in general or if it was specific restaurants with specific items because
Scott Benner (2:00) Well, yeah. (2:01) I mean, there's one thing I've I've learned about putting something on the Internet is that they don't know what you're thinking. (2:05) So, you know, I thought somebody would you know, I always assume people will just know what I'm thinking. (2:11) But some people are just like Chinese food, pancakes, pizza, that kind of stuff. (2:15) And I'm
Jenny Smith (2:15) like, oh, yeah.
Scott Benner (2:16) We'll Sure.
Jenny Smith (2:16) We'll get to all that anyway.
Scott Benner (2:17) Then some people got more specific. (2:19) It's chow mein. (2:20) I I really struggle with honey garlic chicken, but we've got some Panera, McDonald's, Taco Bell specific Panda Express boba.
Jenny Smith (2:34) You know what? (2:35) I have to tell you right now. (2:36) I don't understand the whole boba tea thing.
Scott Benner (2:38) I don't either.
Jenny Smith (2:38) Get it. (2:39) Yeah. (2:39) I really don't. (2:40) We have a I mean, we've got multiple places here that have it. (2:43) Oh, and then they're just to, like, look.
Jenny Smith (2:44) I'm like, I don't understand the idea of drinking something that's got, like, jellyfied weird looking bubbles at the I don't get I really just don't get it.
Scott Benner (2:52) I really don't. (2:52) Fixation with it, and I don't understand either.
Jenny Smith (2:55) So Well, I'm not alone there.
Scott Benner (2:56) Tater tots from Sonic is very specific. (3:00) And Culver's. (3:01) What's Culver's?
Jenny Smith (3:03) Oh, Culver's? (3:04) You've never that's a yeah. (3:05) Culver's. (3:06) Culver's is custard, and then it's like a burger place, but
Scott Benner (3:12) Oh, it's a Wisconsin thing. (3:13) That's why you
Jenny Smith (3:13) know what Wisconsin thing.
Scott Benner (3:14) Burger chain, frozen custard, fried cheese curds. (3:18) Fried cheese curds.
Jenny Smith (3:20) You don't know what a cheese curd is? (3:21) No. (3:21) I learned You got a brother that lives here in Wisconsin.
Scott Benner (3:24) You just do you know how Wisconsin you just got when you said come on? (3:27) You're like, come on.
Jenny Smith (3:32) Oh, entirely.
Scott Benner (3:33) Yes. (3:33) I'm gonna keep making this podcast for twenty more years just so I can know you when you're, like, 60. (3:38) That's what I want now. (3:39) I can hear you.
Jenny Smith (3:39) I will probably talk my like, my father when I'm 60. (3:42) I don't know. (3:43) He has or he had, I should say, the ultimate very Wisconsin accent.
Scott Benner (3:48) Alright. (3:49) Okay. (3:49) Well, I'll get you to do an impression one day. (3:51) But first,
Jenny Smith (3:52) I mean, let's pick one
Scott Benner (3:53) of these things. (3:53) I wanna start with the tater tots. (3:56) What was that?
Jenny Smith (3:57) Oh, tater tots.
Scott Benner (3:58) From Sonic.
Jenny Smith (3:59) Oh, Sonic. (4:00) Okay.
Scott Benner (4:01) Okay. (4:01) Hold on a second. (4:03) Sonic tater tots nutrition, I'm gonna type. (4:09) I bet I bet I'm the first person in the history of the world to type those words together. (4:12) Okay.
Scott Benner (4:12) Let's see.
Jenny Smith (4:13) I've never been to a Sonic, by the way.
Scott Benner (4:15) I have not either. (4:18) Okay. (4:18) Now this is their website.
Jenny Smith (4:20) Okay.
Scott Benner (4:21) I'll accept their cookies. (4:23) 360 calories for the tots. (4:25) Okay. (4:27) Nutritional information. (4:29) Oh, there's small, medium, and large.
Scott Benner (4:31) I'm gonna go large because I mean, I don't know. (4:34) How many is in a small and a medium and
Jenny Smith (4:36) a large? (4:36) Let's see. (4:37) Does it say? (4:40) No. (4:40) It just tells you small, medium, or large.
Scott Benner (4:43) Which one do you wanna do?
Jenny Smith (4:45) Let's do a medium.
Scott Benner (4:46) A medium? (4:47) We've shoot we're shooting the middle. (4:49) Protein in this, three grams. (4:52) Carbohydrates, Jenny, any guesses? (4:54) It's hard.
Scott Benner (4:55) You don't know how many are in there, but wanna pick a
Jenny Smith (4:57) Yeah. (4:57) In a so a medium serving. (5:01) A medium serving, I'm gonna guess 45 or 50.
Scott Benner (5:06) Okay. (5:06) 43. (5:07) You're a savant. (5:09) Total dietary fiber, four. (5:10) I'm gonna ask you in a second why you thought that for medium.
Scott Benner (5:13) Fat, 19 grams. (5:15) Saturated fat, 3.5. (5:18) They're very, very proud to tell you there's no cholesterol or trans fatty acid in it. (5:22) Oh. (5:22) Sodium, oh, eight hundred and ninety milligrams.
Scott Benner (5:26) Calories from fat, a 170. (5:28) Calcium, 19. (5:30) Vitamin a, seven. (5:31) Iron, one point four. (5:32) Vitamin c, one point four.
Jenny Smith (5:35) Okay. (5:36) Well,
Scott Benner (5:36) I don't know how to bowl this to this already because they are definitely deep fried. (5:40) Right? (5:40) So there's gonna
Jenny Smith (5:41) be Oh, a 100% deep fried.
Scott Benner (5:42) Yeah. (5:42) There there's no way there there's a baked option of this, I don't imagine.
Jenny Smith (5:45) They weren't terribly high in fat. (5:47) Right? (5:48) Well, in the medium portion. (5:49) Maybe in the small portion, it wouldn't be terribly high. (5:52) But the Small?
Scott Benner (5:53) I'll give it to you. (5:53) Is it
Jenny Smith (5:53) 20 grams?
Scott Benner (5:54) Small fat, 13. (5:56) Medium fat, 19. (5:57) Large fat, 31.
Jenny Smith (5:59) Oh.
Scott Benner (6:00) Yeah. (6:00) I wanna read this little thing from their website. (6:03) It says crispy tots fried to a golden brown and lightly seasoned with salt. (6:08) Does eight hundred and ninety milligrams of sodium sound like lightly seasoned with salty? (6:13) That's a lot, isn't it?
Jenny Smith (6:15) Nineteen hundred milligram?
Scott Benner (6:16) This is a lot. (6:17) Eight hundred and ninety milligrams.
Jenny Smith (6:19) Oh, eight hundred. (6:19) That's still almost half of what you should have in an entire day.
Scott Benner (6:23) That's what I'm saying. (6:24) But but they
Jenny Smith (6:24) That's
Scott Benner (6:25) The marketing people said lighteny lightly seasoned.
Jenny Smith (6:27) Lightly seasoned. (6:28) Yes. (6:29) Mhmm. (6:29) Just got a sprinkle on it. (6:30) You're gonna love it.
Scott Benner (6:32) Anyway, these things are probably awesome. (6:34) I just wanna say that. (6:36) They probably they probably taste like heaven. (6:39) I don't know. (6:39) Where do we start here?
Scott Benner (6:40) Let's let's say that we roll up on a Sonic, and we're not gonna get into a full meal. (6:44) We're just gonna have our tots and get on our way, and our blood sugar is nice and stable at a 120. (6:50) Let's say that. (6:51) So a 120, we're gonna wanna measure the meal. (6:56) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (6:56) I got 43 carbs. (6:58) I think you've gotta really consider the fat here, and this is gonna be the first time I think we talk about it. (7:04) So, you know, like, this to this level, evaluate yourself. (7:07) We have a little bit of a a higher blood sugar, one twenty. (7:10) I'd love to see that come down to 80, so there'll be a bolus in there for that.
Scott Benner (7:14) And, we'll do some calculations here. (7:16) So you know what I mean? (7:17) We're gonna do the old one unit covers 10 for carbs, and one unit moves us. (7:22) How have we been doing this? (7:23) One unit moves us why don't we say 50 for this one?
Jenny Smith (7:26) 50 for this one? (7:27) Sure.
Scott Benner (7:27) Let's say one unit moves Make
Jenny Smith (7:28) it nice and easy.
Scott Benner (7:29) Yeah. (7:29) Let's make it easy for us. (7:30) So about a unit for the for the one twenty in my mind. (7:35) And then your ratio is gonna tell you, what, like, 4.3 for for the carbs, which is a 5.3. (7:42) But the the pre bolus here would have to be this is interesting.
Scott Benner (7:47) Right? (7:47) Because this place is it's not at your house. (7:50) You're gonna have to drive to it. (7:52) Mhmm. (7:52) And truth be told, you're either gonna bolus while you're driving or you're gonna bolus and sit in the parking lot before you order.
Scott Benner (7:59) There's no way around it. (8:00) Right?
Jenny Smith (8:01) I mean, unless you are going inside to actually sit down, but I'll right. (8:05) I mean, most many people are doing a drive through type of thing for a fast meal restaurant.
Scott Benner (8:11) Grabbing the tots, I would think I it's an in and out situation for me. (8:14) Right. (8:15) And, Jenny, like, honestly speaking, like, how many people do you think are saying to themselves, hey. (8:20) I'm twenty minutes out from the Sonic. (8:22) I'm definitely getting tater tots.
Scott Benner (8:24) I'm gonna bolus now.
Jenny Smith (8:25) Like Not many.
Scott Benner (8:25) I don't have type one. (8:26) Like, would you make a big bolus while you were driving?
Jenny Smith (8:29) Depends where my blood sugar was and how is it how is it starting. (8:32) You know, if I'm I always have something with me.
Scott Benner (8:35) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (8:36) And would I bolus for all of it? (8:38) No. (8:38) I would likely almost a 100% certain that I would bolus for something of it. (8:44) And then once I actually had it in hand, see what's happening with my blood sugar. (8:48) Again, this is where that evaluate your blood sugar and kind of the trend happening and go ahead and bolus for the rest of it at that point.
Jenny Smith (8:55) Or maybe see where it's going even once I get in line to make the order now that I'm there. (9:00) I'm gonna have it in hand in the next five minutes. (9:03) Yeah. (9:03) What happened with that five or ten gram bolus that I gave on the way here just to start tipping me in the direction of insulin working
Scott Benner (9:13) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (9:14) Before I take that first bite.
Scott Benner (9:15) I think your safety is the most important thing, obviously. (9:18) Mhmm. (9:18) And I would tell you that in nineteen years of having type one diabetes, we have one time bolus in the car, and it had and it didn't work out.
Jenny Smith (9:26) Sure.
Scott Benner (9:27) And it was I I know I've told this story on the podcast before, but it was, it was it's harrowing for a minute, you know? (9:33) But mostly speaking, I I think this is a pretty honest thing to say. (9:38) If I'm thinking about it, then we bolus in the car on the way.
Jenny Smith (9:41) Correct.
Scott Benner (9:42) If I don't bring it up to Arden, she's not She's not
Jenny Smith (9:45) going to.
Scott Benner (9:45) No. (9:45) She's not gonna remember that. (9:46) But, you know, for for the sake of talking about how to successfully bolus for these sonic tater tots, I think of accurate bolus with a, you know, a significant pre bolus is gonna be the only way to get ahead of these. (9:58) Right?
Jenny Smith (9:58) Right. (9:59) Yeah. (9:59) Because, again, they're fatty, but they aren't excessive in this portion.
Scott Benner (10:04) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (10:04) You're gonna get hit by the carb part of this sooner than the potential for what will likely be still a lingering effect maybe after you eat it because these are processed potatoes.
Scott Benner (10:17) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (10:17) Right?
Scott Benner (10:18) It's
Jenny Smith (10:18) not They are broken down. (10:19) They're smashed up. (10:20) They're precooked before they get fried. (10:22) So their glycemic impact is absolutely going to be a heavier, quicker hit.
Scott Benner (10:28) Okay.
Jenny Smith (10:28) I think what confuses people often is that they know that this is a fried food. (10:33) So they may expect it to have a slower impact on their blood sugar when really that slow impact is coming, but it's not the immediate of what they're going to see happen to their blood sugar.
Scott Benner (10:45) Okay. (10:46) So I'm using a, a fat and protein bolus calculator
Jenny Smith (10:50) Yeah.
Scott Benner (10:51) That is on my website. (10:53) Uh-huh. (10:54) It's not medical advice and use it at your own risk. (10:57) I just wanna say that.
Jenny Smith (10:57) I have one on my phone as well.
Scott Benner (10:59) There you go. (11:00) It asks me for grams of fat, grams of protein, grams for insulin to carb ratio.
Jenny Smith (11:07) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (11:08) Grams for one unit. (11:10) So I tell it 10. (11:12) And it tells me the the carbohydrate equivalent of the fat is 18 grams. (11:20) Mhmm. (11:20) That seem about right to you?
Scott Benner (11:21) Yeah. (11:22) 19 so 19 grams of fat. (11:24) So it's saying that if you're one to 10, an extra dose would be 1.8 Yeah.
Jenny Smith (11:31) Mhmm. (11:31) And it should usually I don't know if your app is the same as mine, but it'll give for those who want dosing idea or timing of dosing it. (11:38) You should give how long to
Scott Benner (11:40) It's recommended it
Jenny Smith (11:41) that bolus over.
Scott Benner (11:42) An extended bolus of four hours.
Jenny Smith (11:43) Okay.
Scott Benner (11:44) Right. (11:44) So I think that's significant for people to hear because, you know, we said at our one to 10 ratio, these tater tots are four point eight units of of insulin. (11:54) Right? (11:54) Or four point three, whatever it was. (11:56) Four point three.
Scott Benner (11:57) Two more units is, like, 40% more. (12:01) Like, it's a lot more insulin. (12:03) That Yes. (12:03) I think that, not understanding that piece, is the spot where you get into the, like, I don't know what happened. (12:08) I just had tater tots.
Scott Benner (12:09) They seem, like, benign. (12:11) Like, right? (12:11) There's probably a handful of them. (12:13) Hour or two hours later, my blood sugar's super high. (12:16) My kid's blood sugar's super high.
Scott Benner (12:17) It won't come down. (12:19) You know, I don't understand. (12:20) All my settings usually work, etcetera, so on. (12:22) Especially with these, you know, with the automated systems, they're gonna believe you that you put in the right amount of insulin and take away your basal. (12:30) And so you're gonna float up, stay up, and then how would you if you didn't understand the impacts of the fat, I believe it would be difficult to assume a 40 or 50% need over top of the original bolus.
Scott Benner (12:44) Like, that would seem, I think, significant to people who don't understand the rest
Jenny Smith (12:48) of it. (12:49) Right. (12:49) Don't you? (12:49) And where I think bringing in another piece to this consideration, a sonic meal or any fast food, many times they come in in a setting where you will also likely be sedentary after eating. (13:04) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (13:04) Such as you're on a road trip and you're stopping quick to grab a bite along the way. (13:08) Right? (13:09) And you're getting back in the car, and now you're gonna sit for another hour or two hours. (13:13) You know, a lot of the kids that I work with are on travel athletic teams. (13:17) They're going somewhere.
Jenny Smith (13:18) They eat on the way. (13:19) They may play a sport. (13:20) They're hungry after. (13:21) They stop. (13:21) It's another hour to get home.
Jenny Smith (13:23) They're sitting in the car. (13:24) So that can have an impact. (13:26) And in terms of bringing up the fat, like we're discussing, absolutely, you may control the initial rise
Scott Benner (13:34) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (13:34) Pretty well with the bolus just for carbs. (13:37) But later on, you may never really see that curve back down. (13:41) You may also see a little bit more of a nudge up in your blood sugar than you'd expect.
Scott Benner (13:46) I'd ask people to keep this in mind too, and I'm gonna say a couple of things very quickly. (13:50) If you didn't if you just got the tots, then I can go ahead and bowl this for, you know, about the way we talked But if you added a crispy tenders five piece to it, you'd be adding 27 carbs and 20 more grams of fat. (14:04) If you added the crispy chicken sandwich to it, you'd be adding 52 carbs and yeah. (14:12) Well, listen. (14:13) You'd be adding 52 carbs, 10 sugar, 24 fat.
Scott Benner (14:18) And by the way, another 1,500 in sodium. (14:21) Yeah. (14:21) And that's the chicken sandwich, which you're gonna definitely think like chicken. (14:25) Awesome. (14:25) Chicken's good for you.
Jenny Smith (14:26) Must be better. (14:27) Right?
Scott Benner (14:27) Let's just go to the burgers for a second. (14:29) I'm just gonna go plain sonic cheeseburger, 48 carbs, eight sugars, 35 fat. (14:37) Right? (14:38) If you get the double sonic smasher, it has pickles on it. (14:42) Jenny, it has pickles on it.
Scott Benner (14:43) I was
Jenny Smith (14:43) like, oh, you remember I like pickles?
Scott Benner (14:44) Yeah. (14:44) A lot of healthy for you in that. (14:46) Don't worry. (14:46) Pro,
Jenny Smith (14:47) carbs just ask for a side of the pickle?
Scott Benner (14:48) Just some pickles, please. (14:51) Carbs, 30. (14:52) Sugar's, eight. (14:53) Fat, 37. (14:54) 1,500 sodium.
Scott Benner (14:56) Like so there's a lot here that
Jenny Smith (14:59) There is.
Scott Benner (14:59) When you start mixing it together, especially, I think the chicken. (15:04) Because I think in people's minds, the chicken is, like, free. (15:07) It's chicken. (15:09) Chicken. (15:09) They don't think about the breading or the fat or etcetera.
Scott Benner (15:11) But just I mean, keep in mind, if you take five piece tenders, 27 carbs, and then add it to the medium tots, that's forty, fifty, sixty, seventy carbs. (15:25) It's twenty, forty, you know, 39 fat. (15:30) That's a a significant bolus. (15:32) Like and once that meal gets ahead of you, it's gonna stay ahead of you.
Jenny Smith (15:36) And this is entirely I think it's a the best example of why teaching about only carbohydrates is false information. (15:47) It is. (15:48) You're taught to just cover the carbohydrates that you're eating here. (15:52) I looked at the label. (15:54) This is what it told me.
Jenny Smith (15:55) My ratio is this. (15:56) I figured it out. (15:58) Why is this happening? (15:59) And unless somebody really steps in and says, hey. (16:02) This meal contained 50 grams of fat.
Jenny Smith (16:06) This is the reason this is happening and then proceeds to also teach you Mhmm. (16:11) How to navigate that, you're forever going to be frustrated by only counting carbohydrates.
Scott Benner (16:17) Yeah. (16:17) By the way, they also offer a variety of dipping sauces as does every I'm not picking on Sonic, but, like, there's a signature sauce, a ranch, a honey mustard, a buffalo, a barbecue. (16:26) You know, those things, I I find people don't think about that at all. (16:30) Like ketchup.
Jenny Smith (16:31) Oh, no.
Scott Benner (16:31) I think ketchup's one that, you know, people are like, oh, I have a burger and ketchup. (16:36) And, you know, there's a tablespoon or two tablespoons of ketchup later, and you're probably looking at
Jenny Smith (16:40) Or a quarter cup of it if you're I mean, honestly, come on.
Scott Benner (16:43) Seriously? (16:44) Right? (16:44) You think?
Jenny Smith (16:44) You oh, most people eat a lot of ketchup at a time. (16:48) I I mean, I think ketchup the fries or whatever they're eating with it are just a loading place to get the ketchup in for some people. (16:57) And ketchup is full of sugar.
Scott Benner (16:59) The fries are the delivery system for the ketchup?
Jenny Smith (17:01) Yes. (17:01) Thank you. (17:01) Yes.
Scott Benner (17:02) Yeah. (17:02) Yeah. (17:02) I've made fun of, somebody in my life one time. (17:04) I'm like, I think that baked potato is just a way for you to eat butter. (17:07) Uh-huh.
Scott Benner (17:09) Okay. (17:09) I think is that good for this one, do you think?
Jenny Smith (17:11) I think it is. (17:12) I think it highlights a lot of the things that need to be considered. (17:16) You know, we started with the tater tots, obviously, which I don't I don't even I think I was in, like, middle school last time I had a
Scott Benner (17:21) tater Listen. (17:22) I I think it's one of those things. (17:24) Like, I I I think it tugs at your young heartstrings. (17:27) Like, mean, tater tots at I mean, did you not have pizza in tater tot day at school?
Jenny Smith (17:31) Oh, a 100%. (17:32) Yeah. (17:32) Rectangle pizza. (17:34) It was the one day that when my mom looked at the calendar after I was diagnosed, it was the one day that we'd look at it. (17:41) She'd be like, okay.
Jenny Smith (17:41) I won't pack your I won't pack your lunch today. (17:43) You can have the pizza.
Scott Benner (17:44) Right? (17:45) The pizza, which by the way, makes an Elio's pizza look like gourmet. (17:49) And you were still excited about it. (17:50) Right?
Jenny Smith (17:51) A 100. (17:52) It was great.
Scott Benner (17:52) What piece of cardboard with, like, half ketchup on it and a handful of tater tots? (17:56) And you were like, my life is all and then people are like,
Jenny Smith (17:58) what? (17:59) Exciting.
Scott Benner (17:59) It was oh my god. (18:00) It's the best part of your life.
Jenny Smith (18:01) You know, I think was this the best part for you too? (18:03) Like, the rectangle pizza slices? (18:06) We had those plastic plastic school trays. (18:09) Yeah. (18:10) That we went through the line.
Jenny Smith (18:11) And I it was always exciting to me visually that the pizza slice fit perfectly in the rectangle that had that was on the plastic tray. (18:19) Like, that was very exciting to me that it fit perfect in that little rectangle. (18:23) Now people are gonna think
Scott Benner (18:24) that Yeah. (18:25) Jen, Don't tell people stuff like that. (18:26) Hey. (18:28) Let me tell you something here. (18:29) The original cold brew iced coffee at Sonic, there are four sizes, small, medium, large, and something called r two r t 44.
Scott Benner (18:39) What could r t 44 stand for? (18:42) Not the point. (18:43) The r t 44 size has 82 carbs in it, 58.
Jenny Smith (18:48) Is it 44 ounces?
Scott Benner (18:50) Is it?
Jenny Smith (18:51) I don't know. (18:51) I'm just asking. (18:52) Maybe there, so I'm curious if
Scott Benner (18:54) that's the size. (18:55) I'm looking.
Jenny Smith (18:56) Kinda like the slushies at seven Eleven that are, like, gigantic.
Scott Benner (19:01) I don't know. (19:02) It has 82 carbs, 58 Oh my god. (19:05) 58 grams of sugar. (19:07) Yeah. (19:07) There's 460 of salt in that.
Scott Benner (19:12) That's crazy. (19:13) Is that not crazy? (19:14) How many calories are you supposed to have a day? (19:15) Like, 2,000?
Jenny Smith (19:17) It depends on your activity level, your age, you know, all that kind of stuff. (19:21) But in general, I mean, this is, again, a big reason that drinking your calories in general shouldn't be done. (19:27) All of the drinks from any of the national brands, they're not a way to take in calories because they're not ones that register with your brain.
Scott Benner (19:36) The small has 28 carbs, 20 sugars in it. (19:39) High fat. (19:39) There's fat in coffee?
Jenny Smith (19:42) Well, probably because if it's a mixed it's No. (19:45) Probably got half and half.
Scott Benner (19:46) Yeah. (19:47) I don't know. (19:47) I don't drink coffee. (19:48) Anyway, I just want you to know that because it's it's listed as the the the breakfast coffee. (19:54) So I don't know.
Scott Benner (19:55) In my mind, it makes it sound like it's, you know, healthy. (19:58) It's for breakfast.
Jenny Smith (19:59) Healthy. (19:59) Right. (19:59) It's your breakfast coffee. (20:00) Maybe it's got some good protein or something in it.
Scott Benner (20:03) I don't know. (20:04) I'll see you.
Jenny Smith (20:05) Thanks.
Scott Benner (20:13) In each episode of the bolus four series, Jenny, Smith, and I are gonna pick one food and talk through the bolusing for that food. (20:22) We hope you find it valuable. (20:24) Generally speaking, we're gonna follow a bit of a formula, the meal bolt formula, m e a l b o l t. (20:32) You can learn more about it at juice box podcast dot com forward slash meal dash bolt. (20:38) But here's what it is.
Scott Benner (20:39) Step one, m, measure the meal, e, evaluate yourself. (20:47) A, add the base units. (20:49) L, layer a correction. (20:53) B, build the bolus shape. (20:55) O, offset the timing, l, look at the CGM, and t, tweak for next time.
Scott Benner (21:02) In a nutshell, we measure our meal, total carbohydrates, protein, fat, consider the glycemic index and the glycemic load, And then we evaluate yourself. (21:13) What's your current blood sugar? (21:14) How much insulin's on board? (21:15) And what kind of activity are you gonna be involved in or not involved in? (21:19) Do have any stress, hormones, illness?
Scott Benner (21:22) What's going on with you? (21:24) Then a, we add the base units. (21:26) Your carbs divided by insulin to carb ratio, just a simple bolus. (21:31) L, layer of correction. (21:32) Right?
Scott Benner (21:33) Do you have to add or subtract insulin based on your current blood sugar? (21:37) Build the bolus shape. (21:39) Are we gonna give it all upfront, a 100% for a fast digesting meal, or is there gonna be like a combo or a square wave bolus? (21:46) Does it have to be extended? (21:48) Offset the timing.
Scott Benner (21:49) This is about pre bolusing. (21:51) Does it take a couple of minutes this meal or maybe twenty minutes? (21:55) Are we gonna have to again consider combo square wave boluses and meals? (22:00) Figure out the timing of that meal. (22:02) And then l, look at the CGM.
Scott Benner (22:05) An hour later, was there a fast spike? (22:07) Three hours later, was there a delayed rise? (22:09) Five hours later, is there any lingering effect from fat and protein? (22:13) Tweak. (22:15) Tweak for next time, t.
Scott Benner (22:17) What did you eat? (22:18) How much insulin and when? (22:20) What did your blood sugar curve look like? (22:23) What would you do next time? (22:25) This is what we're gonna talk about in every episode of bolus four.
Scott Benner (22:30) Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, add the base units, layer a correction, build the bolus shape, offset the timing, look at the CGM, tweak for next time. (22:39) But it's not gonna be that confusing, and we're not gonna ask you to remember all of that stuff. (22:44) But that's the pathway that Jenny and I are gonna use to speak about each bolus. (22:53) The Juice Box podcast is edited by Wrong Way Recording. (22:57) Wrongwayrecording.com.
Scott Benner (23:00) If you'd like your podcast to sound as good as mine, check out Rob at Wrong Way Recording dot com.
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#1707 Triple Greased Food
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Catherine shares a moving story from Bermuda about navigating her son's T1D diagnosis and GCSE exams while grieving the sudden loss of her husband.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:00) Hello, friends. (0:01) Welcome to the Juice Box podcast. (0:03) From my family to yours, I want to wish you a happy holiday.
Catherine (0:16) My name is Catherine. (0:17) I am currently in Bermuda. (0:20) I've lived here now for nineteen years. (0:23) I have two sons. (0:25) My son, Max, who is 16, who has type one diabetes, and his younger brother who is 14, who does not.
Scott Benner (0:38) If this is your first time listening to the Juice Box podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple Podcasts or Spotify, really any audio app at all. (0:48) Look for the Juice Box podcast and follow or subscribe. (0:51) We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. (0:55) Wanna learn more about your diabetes management? (0:57) Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and look for bold beginnings, the diabetes pro tip series, and much more.
Scott Benner (1:04) This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. (1:12) While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the juice box should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:20) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. (1:32) I'm having an on body vibe alert. (1:34) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Eversense three sixty five, the only one year wear CGM.
Scott Benner (1:42) That's one insertion and one CGM a year. (1:46) One CGM, one year. (1:48) Not every ten or fourteen days. (1:50) Ever since c g m dot com slash juice box. (1:53) Today's episode is also sponsored by Touched by Type One.
Scott Benner (1:57) Go check them out right now on Facebook, Instagram, and, of course, at touchedbytype1.org. (2:04) Check out that programs tab when you get to the website to see all the great things that they're doing for people living with type one diabetes. (2:11) Touched bytype1.org. (2:13) The podcast is also sponsored today by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. (2:22) Tandem MOBI has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up.
Scott Benner (2:28) Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox.
Catherine (2:34) My name is Katherine. (2:36) I am currently in Bermuda. (2:39) I've lived here now for nineteen years. (2:42) I have two sons. (2:44) My son, Max, who is 16, who has type one diabetes, and his younger brother who is 14, who does not.
Scott Benner (2:55) Okay. (2:55) Max is 16. (2:56) He has type one. (2:57) How old are you?
Catherine (2:58) I am 49.
Scott Benner (3:00) 49. (3:01) And you live in Bermuda?
Catherine (3:02) I do.
Scott Benner (3:03) And for the last twenty nine minutes, you and I have been trying to get set up to do this. (3:10) And whether we used your laptop or your phone or even calling from a home phone through, like, Zoom's number, you were getting an echo while you were talking. (3:20) So Yes. (3:21) So that everybody knows, I then went to my provider, my podcast provider. (3:27) This is probably a backroom thing you guys don't really know or care about, but I employ a company to host the podcast, and then they distribute it to whatever app you're listening on right now.
Scott Benner (3:38) Mhmm. (3:39) Even if you're listening on my website through the little player, it's all through this great company called Libsyn. (3:45) And they offer something called Connect where people who don't have Zoom or stuff like that can record and make a podcast. (3:51) I don't know how this is gonna sound. (3:52) I don't know anything.
Scott Benner (3:53) I apologize ahead of time. (3:55) If you don't like it, if you love it, check out Zoom or check out Libsyn. (3:59) But, Catherine, let's start because it's freaking me out a little because I can't hear myself in my ears, which I usually can do, but I'm just gonna live with that. (4:08) Like, I know that sounds strange, but I can usually hear myself while I'm talking. (4:12) Okay.
Scott Benner (4:13) But I need my headphones on to talk to you. (4:15) Yeah. (4:16) Feels like I'm underwater right now.
Catherine (4:18) Oh, no. (4:18) I'm so sorry.
Scott Benner (4:19) Don't be sorry. (4:20) It's strange. (4:21) I'll be okay. (4:22) So how old was Max when he was diagnosed?
Catherine (4:26) He was diagnosed when he was 15 years old.
Scott Benner (4:30) Since recently?
Catherine (4:31) It it is. (4:32) It's been, a whirlwind of a year with it. (4:37) He was actually away on a band trip with his school over to University of of, North Carolina Greensboro. (4:47) And it's one of those types of trips where, you know, the chaperone or if you're local, your parent drops you off, and you're on your own. (4:55) Basically, you've got resident advisers.
Catherine (4:57) It's very much like introduction to university or college life Mhmm. (5:02) Where, you know, you're responsible for choosing your own meals at the cafeteria. (5:06) You're responsible for getting to practice. (5:08) And so this is the second time he's done this camp, and he did what every teenage boy does is he lived on pizza and soda for a week.
Scott Benner (5:20) I thought you were gonna say you found a girl, but okay.
Catherine (5:22) No. (5:22) No. (5:23) No. (5:23) We wish. (5:23) We we we wish he could talk to girls, but he's still he's quite the introvert.
Catherine (5:28) He lived on pizza and soda for a week. (5:31) And then on the final night of the camp, there's always a concert. (5:34) And the chaperone that took the children from Bermuda noticed that Max got up from the concert in the middle of it and left and thought that was very, very odd. (5:45) And then all the next day coming home, he noticed that he kept going to the bathroom consistently even during the flight. (5:54) And we have a high, high rate of type two diabetes in Bermuda, So he was fairly aware of some of the signs and signals, and he pulled me aside at the airport and said, please just keep an eye.
Catherine (6:04) Something's going on. (6:06) And we got home, and we figured, well, maybe he's just tired. (6:08) We're not sure what's going on. (6:10) You know, you expect your 15 year old to be able to communicate to you if there's an issue.
Scott Benner (6:16) Yeah.
Catherine (6:17) Of course, he doesn't. (6:18) And it turns out that it's, like, 11:00 at night on that same day when he flew back, and we were getting my house ready for my parents from Canada to come stay with us for my nephew's wedding that week. (6:32) And all of a sudden, he's rushing into the bathroom urgently. (6:37) And at this point, we've realized this is absolutely just not normal.
Scott Benner (6:41) Can I ask a question? (6:42) Did you just do a zipper before rushing into the bathroom as a sound effect? (6:46) Because that was awesome if that's what you did.
Catherine (6:48) No. (6:48) No. (6:48) No. (6:49) No. (6:49) No.
Catherine (6:49) I actually just undid my hoodies, so that that's quite weird.
Scott Benner (6:54) Oh my god. (6:54) Yeah. (6:54) I was I was like, if you all are gonna start doing if you all are gonna start doing sound effects for me, I mean, that's
Catherine (7:00) really another lesson. (7:01) Definitely not that good.
Scott Benner (7:02) You're like, he rushed into the bathroom, zipped, and I was like, get out of here. (7:06) Am I gonna hear water next?
Catherine (7:19) So I said, okay. (7:21) We are going to the hospital because at this point, you know, something is definitely going on. (7:26) You either have a UTI, which is very rare in males, or you most likely have diabetes. (7:33) Something's up. (7:34) Like, the nurse case manager, risk manager in me, like, my brain is, like, already going through the diagnosis tree even before we've left the house.
Catherine (7:42) Mhmm. (7:43) So, thankfully, you know, Bermuda is very small. (7:45) We're only 21 miles by one and a half miles long. (7:49) So and our hospital is centrally located in the middle of the island. (7:53) So it's really we only have one hospital.
Catherine (7:56) It's not that far from us, so it's about a five minute drive. (8:01) So we get into the hospital, and it's, like, 11:30 at night. (8:06) And he there's, thankfully, on a Saturday night, no one in the emergency room at all. (8:10) It's completely empty. (8:12) And so he gets triaged, and the nurse does a blood sugar, and it reads off as high.
Catherine (8:17) So, automatically, we go into the back room. (8:21) They draw some proper lab work to send to the lab, and they come back and say that his blood sugars are 679, but he was not in ketoacidosis.
Scott Benner (8:33) Okay. (8:33) Well, good.
Catherine (8:34) Which was very, very good. (8:36) And his hemoglobin a one c upon entry was 10.3.
Scott Benner (8:42) It had been going on for a little bit.
Catherine (8:43) It it was. (8:44) And, you know, when I look back at it as a nurse, I should have picked up on some of the signs because his grades had started to slip in the last term of the school year. (8:57) So he had been sick in the Christmas prior to it with the virus non not COVID. (9:03) And then his grades started to slip, but I figured he's a 15 year old boy who happens to have ADHD. (9:12) And, obviously, there are just courses he doesn't really wanna focus on.
Catherine (9:18) So I was more thinking, this is just 15 year old boy. (9:23) Wasn't thinking much more about it in terms of that. (9:27) But then when I looked back in hindsight about the month before he went away to camp, my husband and I had noticed that repetitively around midnight, one of our children would be getting up and going to the bathroom, which was a new thing, and that was just an unusual item. (9:46) That led us up to there. (9:48) So I wasn't completely shocked when I looked at all this all the signs in hindsight that I just hadn't put together.
Scott Benner (9:54) Your accent is so crazy. (9:56) Is it Canadian? (9:57) Yes. (9:58) Yes. (9:59) Is that what it is?
Catherine (10:00) Yeah. (10:00) So I'm actually originally from Canada, born and raised, and then I lived in Boston for a few years as as a nurse as a nurse.
Scott Benner (10:10) There it is.
Catherine (10:10) And then I I came to Bermuda. (10:13) So it's it's definitely a little merge of different Yeah.
Scott Benner (10:18) It's it's very unique. (10:19) It is very unique. (10:20) Yeah. (10:21) Yeah. (10:21) Yeah.
Scott Benner (10:21) Cute. (10:22) What got you guys to Bermuda? (10:23) Like, I mean, besides, were you just like, why don't we go live in the sun? (10:26) That's a better idea or no?
Catherine (10:28) No. (10:29) My my husband was Bermudian. (10:31) So and he owned a company with his brother. (10:34) So it was just easier for me to relocate as a nurse here than it was for him to come to The US where I was working at the time. (10:43) Yeah.
Catherine (10:43) Because there was no way he was gonna get a visa to work in The US in his field. (10:48) So we just thought it was easier for me to relocate here. (10:52) And oddly enough, my one of my sisters had married a Bermudian and was living here already as well with her husband and family.
Scott Benner (10:59) Hold on. (11:00) Hold on. (11:00) What are your parents farming you guys out overseas or something? (11:03) What's going on exactly?
Catherine (11:04) No. (11:04) No. (11:05) No. (11:05) We still have one left in Canada. (11:07) But, yeah, it's just very, very odd that we both randomly met Bermudians
Scott Benner (11:12) Yeah.
Catherine (11:12) And and married them. (11:14) So
Scott Benner (11:14) That's really crazy. (11:15) Yeah. (11:16) How long have you been there?
Catherine (11:17) I've been here nineteen years.
Scott Benner (11:19) You live what we all assume is our dream, but is it a dream living on an island in a warm place or not really?
Catherine (11:24) We do get a little cool during winter, so it gets like a dampness cool with it. (11:30) If you're coming from overseas, you still think the weather is beautiful. (11:33) But if you live here locally, the first year you think, oh, this winter is nothing. (11:37) Every other year, you're like, oh, this is cold. (11:39) I need to find my hat.
Catherine (11:40) Like, you know, it's it's chilly out. (11:42) We need a sweater. (11:43) So
Scott Benner (11:44) There's no feeling of like, you're missing something or the weather's too similar to the rest of the day or anything like that?
Catherine (11:51) Not really. (11:52) Bramedians are known to travel, so it's not unusual. (11:56) Like, if you're missing, like, the snow at Christmas, a lot of people will just travel if they're missing that. (12:02) So we do have somewhat of seasons where it gets wet and cooler during the winter, but we never have snow. (12:10) And, honestly, it's like, you know, everyone's like, life's a beach, but we just get along our lives like anyone else does in a small community.
Catherine (12:19) You know? (12:19) Got it. (12:20) You raise your children. (12:21) You you go to work. (12:22) And it just happens that a lot of our activities outside of that surrounds, you know, either boating or beach or, you know, our our natural area here.
Catherine (12:32) You know, we spend a lot of time on the water here. (12:35) So
Scott Benner (12:36) If you go on a school trip, you get to go to North Carolina.
Catherine (12:39) Exactly.
Scott Benner (12:40) Interesting. (12:40) Well, that's really cool. (12:41) Yeah. (12:42) I appreciate you sharing that with me. (12:43) Yeah.
Scott Benner (12:44) He gets diagnosed here and Mhmm. (12:46) Sounds like you had a little bit of guilt, but, like, is that did that stick with you, or are you okay with that?
Catherine (12:50) Little bit of guilt. (12:51) It did stick with me for a little while, but I did get over it when I realized that, you know you know, unfortunately, as nurses, a lot of times, we are trained for hospital based items, which means you're being trained for the classic symptoms that are gonna come through the door. (13:07) So, you know, in working with our diabetic educator who I adore, you know, I definitely got over that guilt because there were so many signs that could have been attributed to other things.
Scott Benner (13:19) I'm glad. (13:19) I'll tell you why I say s because I thought it was amazing. (13:23) Teacher sees him go off to the bathroom, mention something to you, you get him home, take him right to the hospital. (13:28) It sounded seamless to me.
Catherine (13:29) It sounded like it was really seamless, but there when I looked in retrospect, we were like, okay.
Scott Benner (13:33) The time.
Catherine (13:34) The time. (13:34) Because we know this is an autoimmune disorder. (13:36) So we started to look back, and that's when I started to pick up some of these things that were explainable by other items as well.
Scott Benner (13:44) Other autoimmune in the family? (13:46) No. (13:47) You don't have celiac? (13:48) You don't have thyroid? (13:49) Nothing like that's happened?
Catherine (13:50) Nothing. (13:51) So
Scott Benner (13:52) Alright.
Catherine (13:53) His grandfather had type two diabetes. (13:56) His father was a BRCA two carrier, but there's no link between that and diabetes at all. (14:06) So we have no idea.
Scott Benner (14:09) His father was? (14:10) Is his father passed?
Catherine (14:11) Yeah. (14:11) His father passed this summer.
Scott Benner (14:13) Oh my gosh. (14:14) Catherine, you're were you married still?
Catherine (14:16) Yes.
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Catherine (16:19) Good days, bad days. (16:20) He was fine. (16:21) Like, he did everything he was doing. (16:24) He was a cub scout leader and was getting ready to physically getting ready to take kids away to a camp in two years. (16:31) That's extremely intensive physically.
Catherine (16:35) So he had been going to the gym. (16:37) He had been losing weight, cutting back on his charcuterie, cutting back on his beers with the with the the cub leaders after the children leave. (16:47) He was doing everything right. (16:49) And then he had just had had hernia surgery in May when all of his blood work was normal. (16:58) Everything was showing as normal.
Catherine (17:01) And then all of a sudden, in early June, he looks at me, comes out of the bathroom after he was shaving, says, I think my neck is swollen. (17:09) And I'm like, yeah. (17:10) That is really swollen. (17:12) We have an issue. (17:13) So that actually prompted multiple doctor's appointments and CT scans and biopsies.
Catherine (17:22) And in Bermuda, because we are so small, we actually send our pathology for cancer related items out to some of the best hospitals in the Boston area for their pathology team to manage it. (17:36) So that way we're getting the best So by the June, we knew that he had an aggressive form of cancer, but we didn't know what type. (17:47) Like, the pathology was not being nice at all or acting normally. (17:51) They were still having a lot of difficulty figuring that out. (17:56) So he actually goes to cub camp for the week like he always does to spend time with these cubs.
Catherine (18:04) And he actually I was already planned to be in the Boston area with my son and a few other children from Bermuda to take them to a well renowned diabetic camp just outside of the Boston area.
Scott Benner (18:19) Mhmm.
Catherine (18:20) And I was actually volunteering there as a nurse because I figured, well, I'm in the area. (18:25) They need someone in the country. (18:28) I'm a nurse. (18:28) I might as well volunteer. (18:30) Right?
Scott Benner (18:30) Yeah. (18:30) Yeah.
Catherine (18:31) Which was great experience to see all these different pumps that we don't even have access to in Bermuda, by the way. (18:37) Amazing. (18:38) So I was supposed to be there for two weeks. (18:40) And one weekend, I get the notice that he's coming up to Boston right away for some appointments. (18:47) And I was supposed to just go back and forth because he was gonna be okay.
Catherine (18:50) But after seeing him, we were he was admitted right away, and the pathology finally came back after three weeks that he had a very aggressive and rare form of neuroendocrine colon cancer.
Scott Benner (19:05) Oh my god.
Catherine (19:07) So yeah. (19:08) So we I'm
Scott Benner (19:09) so sorry.
Catherine (19:10) Thank you.
Scott Benner (19:10) Yeah.
Catherine (19:11) No. (19:11) It's fair. (19:12) We spent the summer in Boston, and he unfortunately passed away just ninety nine days ago. (19:21) Yeah.
Scott Benner (19:22) Oh my god. (19:23) I just as you were saying the story and you were like, June, I'm like, I that's this year.
Catherine (19:27) Yeah. (19:28) It's very recent. (19:29) So and my children kind of bounced back and forth between Boston and Bermuda for the summer because we wanted to try and give them some sort of normalcy, but we didn't want them to feel like they weren't with their father. (19:45) But the same point is being in a hospital is very stressful. (19:49) So so they kinda bounced back and forth, and they got very familiar with certain tourist attractions in Boston.
Catherine (19:56) Like, you know, we got a full membership at the science museum, and they went, like, every day.
Scott Benner (20:01) Yeah.
Catherine (20:02) So like, for a few hours. (20:03) Yeah.
Scott Benner (20:04) Wow my gosh. (20:05) Oh, and did you make this booking before this happened?
Catherine (20:08) I did.
Scott Benner (20:09) I was just gonna say, like, I oh, I found it's it's only because you said was. (20:13) That's what I'm sorry. (20:15) I shouldn't have asked.
Catherine (20:16) That's okay. (20:16) No. (20:16) That's fine. (20:17) That that's
Scott Benner (20:18) that's okay. (20:19) My head down. (20:19) I was like, oh. (20:20) No. (20:20) No.
Scott Benner (20:20) No.
Catherine (20:21) That's fine. (20:21) So but it actually it actually kind of, like, impacts Max's story because I will say this honestly. (20:29) The food in The US is horrible. (20:33) It's horrible for diabetes, especially if you are not cooking things from scratch yourself at home.
Scott Benner (20:40) So you were having trouble with managing as type one while you were in in Boston?
Catherine (20:45) Oh my god. (20:46) Horrible, horrible trouble.
Scott Benner (20:48) Oh, no kidding.
Catherine (20:49) Like, you know, so I would go from all day being at the hospital because as a nurse, I was my husband's translator for everything that was going on for him and managing all of that. (20:59) And then I would get back to the apartment, and I'd realized that my son has decided at 09:00 at night is a great time to have a cannoli from a famous pastry shop in the North End, where you can't find online any carb details about how many carbs are in that cannoli.
Scott Benner (21:16) Just assume a lot, I imagine.
Catherine (21:19) Oh, it was a bad night. (21:21) I look I looked at him afterwards, and I'm like, what are we gonna do next time? (21:27) He's like, I'm never gonna have a cannoli again. (21:29) I'm like, no. (21:29) You can have it, but can you have it at noon?
Scott Benner (21:33) Well, now if he has a baked good at home, that doesn't happen, you're saying?
Catherine (21:37) It doesn't happen because we know the foods. (21:41) Like, it's been trial and error that we know that from this place, it's, you know, it's about this carb size. (21:49) Like, our portion sizes in Bermuda are smaller. (21:54) Mhmm. (21:55) Even though a lot of our food comes from The US, We get a lot of our we get a good portion as well from The UK.
Catherine (22:05) We only have one US fast food restaurant here in Bermuda.
Scott Benner (22:12) Which one is it?
Catherine (22:14) KFC.
Scott Benner (22:15) Okay.
Catherine (22:15) Because we have an antifranchise law. (22:17) We used to have McDonald's, but when The US forces left a few decades ago, that left with them. (22:23) We do have, like, fast food areas, but it seems like that fast food is made is not made with the same type of food that you're or in the same way that is being processed in The US.
Scott Benner (22:34) I see. (22:35) So there's the KFC there, but it's really just a place that makes chicken and
Catherine (22:38) Well, no. (22:39) I mean, that is actually a proper KFC. (22:41) But if I go down the road to a different fast food place for a burger and fries, those fries are definitely not like McDonald's fries.
Scott Benner (22:49) Gotcha. (22:50) Gotcha.
Catherine (22:50) They are they're not, like, double or triple greased and everything else. (22:55) You're gonna see that release a lot sooner of the carbs than you would with fast food in The US.
Scott Benner (23:03) Okay. (23:03) It holds on longer here.
Catherine (23:05) It really does. (23:07) Yeah.
Scott Benner (23:07) Yeah. (23:07) It really does. (23:09) I'm gonna try to use the words triple greased at some point in my life. (23:12) I don't know where.
Catherine (23:13) But I don't know. (23:13) That's awesome. (23:14) And it just seems it's like because of the layer of grease along the fast food that, obviously, it takes a while for the stomach to break that down. (23:21) So next thing you know, you're spiking a lot higher. (23:25) It's almost the same concept as pizza.
Catherine (23:27) You know, you've gotta just learn how it how it works. (23:30) You know, when you're in a situation where you're in and out of hospitals, you're not really cooking great food, so you're letting your child eat whatever they want for the summer. (23:40) So it it there were some very interesting times with his blood sugars this summer.
Scott Benner (23:44) Yeah. (23:45) I have to ask you, how did your children handle, you know, your husband's passing? (23:51) Like and how do you contextualize that for them while you're busy trying to work it out for yourself when you actually have to go back to Bermuda and be by yourself too?
Catherine (23:58) So, thankfully so my children already had a therapist.
Scott Benner (24:02) Okay.
Catherine (24:03) And oddly enough, when my son was first being told that he had diabetes, one of the first messages was to his therapist to say, okay. (24:11) We need a session right now. (24:12) So his therapist was very well aware as to what was going on with my husband and what they did virtual sessions throughout the summer with both my children and then when my husband passed, and they continue to see him now. (24:27) It's very interesting because when you look at studies about grief and how teenagers react, you know, like, there's, like, almost, like, two paths that they tend to go on where one is either very, like, quiet and they don't really say a lot about it, almost like it never happened. (24:47) And then the other one is very angry and vocal, and both my children took a different path.
Scott Benner (24:54) Oh, awesome for you. (24:55) Yes. (24:56) Yeah. (24:57) So but they
Catherine (24:57) are getting through with the support of, like I mean, they've got an amazing family support here, through my husband's family and through, because my husband was a cub scout leader, and I'm a scout leader through our scouting family. (25:11) So they've got tremendous support in the community, and I guess that's one of the benefits of being from such a small place.
Scott Benner (25:19) Yeah. (25:19) What path did you take?
Catherine (25:20) I've taken the path of keeping myself as busy as possible and just realizing that I just have to get things done because I have two boys.
Scott Benner (25:29) Yeah. (25:30) Yeah. (25:30) Oh my gosh. (25:31) Yeah. (25:32) On your note here to me, it says, I wanna discuss how to deal with the stress of GCSE exams for type ones.
Scott Benner (25:40) What what what do what do you wanna talk about there?
Catherine (25:43) So GCSE exams are British exams for exiting high school. (25:49) They are two year courses that comes down to most of the courses will have two exams. (25:57) If it's a language, it might be four. (25:59) If it's a practical thing, like like shop or what we call design and tech, you know, you might have a practical part of it. (26:07) But, generally, you're studying for two years, and you have two exams, and that's your mark.
Catherine (26:13) It doesn't matter what you did through the two years. (26:16) Those test days are your days. (26:18) And if you have a bad day or a bad night with your blood sugars, we all know that you are not mentally clear for your exams, and that's it. (26:30) It's like, that is the mark that you are going to get, and there's no do overs. (26:36) The best you can do is try and get a letter from your doctor to say that, can you please give some Lee Nancy because of this situation?
Catherine (26:46) But you have to provide that on the exact same day that the exam is taking place.
Scott Benner (26:50) How do those those exam scores impact life?
Catherine (26:53) They impact how where you go next in your educational career. (26:58) So some schools, some universities, and colleges will use those to help determine entrance into into it. (27:07) So most of the children in his class go on to what's called an international baccalaureate, the IB program, which is basically pre like, junior college. (27:19) But the schools overseas will definitely look at their GCSE levels in terms of entrance for universities.
Scott Benner (27:28) It could have, like, a really big impact on the rest of your Yeah.
Catherine (27:31) Yeah. (27:31) Like, exactly. (27:33) I mean, thankfully, if you go further on with either, you know, your IB level, you can kind of try and make it up if you had a bad situation to show that you do have growth and you have the potential for it. (27:48) But it can be very it can be very stressful because there's because unlike the SATs, there's no rewrites.
Scott Benner (27:55) Yeah. (27:55) And and so this is this looms over everybody when you think about this.
Catherine (28:00) Oh, two years worth of stress where children are pulling their hair out because they know the importance of of doing well in these courses, and it literally comes down to two exams. (28:13) And are you having a good day on that exam or a bad day?
Scott Benner (28:16) What did you end up doing?
Catherine (28:18) There was a couple of days where he has some really, really bad nights, and we had to get a letter from the doctor that day to say, please give leniency because it's his diabetes that's causing mental mental fog and give him a little bit of leniency. (28:35) But there was actually one day where, his pump, because he's on an Omnipod, broke, and he didn't have any spares with him.
Scott Benner (28:47) And that was during testing?
Catherine (28:49) It was during testing. (28:50) It was so much fun because, technically, he's not allowed to have any technology on his desk. (28:57) He had put his phone on silence because he wanted to be respectful of everyone else testing.
Scott Benner (29:03) Oh.
Catherine (29:04) And he uses a PDM rather than the app because it just tends to work better in Bermuda.
Scott Benner (29:11) I see. (29:12) And so so he had a a a failure, and he didn't know it even happened?
Catherine (29:16) He didn't even know it happened. (29:18) So because he because when the invigilators, there's always a chance that an inside invigilator from The UK is gonna show up. (29:26) And if they see a phone, something that looks like a phone on a desk, that's a big problem. (29:32) And, of course, the PDM looks like an iPhone, you know, from a distance. (29:36) So that's all sitting in the back with an invigilator who has no idea what's going on.
Catherine (29:42) But, thankfully, I'm getting notifications that his sugars are climbing and climbing and climbing, and I'm like, what is going on?
Scott Benner (29:51) Mhmm. (29:52) I bet you freaked out. (29:53) I would have been like, are you kidding me?
Catherine (29:56) Oh, it was a it was a horrible day. (29:58) So I'm contacting the main receptionist, and I'm saying, okay. (30:03) He's got a spare bag with him. (30:06) I don't know what's going on right now, but his sugars are rising too much. (30:10) Get a message to him that he needs to, you know, give himself an additional bolus, and then I'll call back and see whether it worked.
Catherine (30:18) Well, that didn't work. (30:19) So then I'm like, can you grab his spare pen and tell him to give himself a dose right near the site? (30:27) Because we've gotta figure out what's going on. (30:29) Is it the site or is it the pump? (30:33) So we're working through our troubleshooting with things.
Catherine (30:36) And that did bring it down a little bit. (30:38) So we realized, okay. (30:40) This is a pump issue, and he did not have any spare pumps at school.
Scott Benner (30:46) Okay. (30:47) So does he have does he always have spare pumps now?
Catherine (30:51) He probably doesn't, to be honest. (30:54) Yeah. (30:55) He just kinda wings it a lot of time, unfortunately, as a teenager does. (31:00) He's got spare pens at at at school if he needs to, but oddly enough, he I don't think he actually has a spare pump there or a vial. (31:08) Does he keep more at school now?
Catherine (31:09) No. (31:11) Should he? (31:12) Absolutely. (31:13) Yes. (31:14) But my husband at the time, thankfully, because I was in crazy work mode that day.
Catherine (31:19) So my husband grabs some pumps, runs it down, and we're switching the pump. (31:25) He's, you know, he's allowed to leave the room for, like, two minutes to switch the pump Okay. (31:31) And get back under control. (31:34) But his sugars at that point, they were over 300.
Scott Benner (31:37) Oh gosh.
Catherine (31:38) Yeah. (31:39) It was it was definitely a very, very stressful situation. (31:43) So and it was in one of the courses that he actually really, really enjoys. (31:48) It was in his chemistry. (31:50) So it it was definitely an extremely stressful situation when you're entering those exams, and you know that this is it.
Catherine (31:59) Like, you don't get great. (32:01) You don't get a rewrite. (32:02) You don't get an opportunity to get classwork or any of the tests you did through it the last two years to count. (32:09) Like, this is it.
Scott Benner (32:11) This is just what it is.
Catherine (32:12) This is it is what it is. (32:14) So it's an extremely stressful situation. (32:16) You know? (32:17) And after that, I actually had a we learned a lot because we didn't realize what we would have to do if there was an illness or a situation like that in the middle of the test. (32:28) We didn't know what our rights were or anything, through the testing board.
Catherine (32:34) So I I sat down with the headmaster of the school. (32:37) After that happened, I said, okay. (32:39) Now we because there was definitely some communication breakdowns during it as well, because I'm handing over pretty complex medical directions
Scott Benner (32:48) Right.
Catherine (32:49) To a receptionist.
Scott Benner (32:52) Okay.
Catherine (32:54) So there was a few things that we were a little lost in translation. (32:58) We figured it out. (32:59) We figured out a plan for moving forward that, you know, we would just, like, keep things in writing as well. (33:05) Max had to learn that he cannot keep his things on silent during these exams.
Scott Benner (33:12) Okay. (33:13) Yeah. (33:13) Can I ask how was his actual performance? (33:16) Did it get did it get impacted, or did it end up not being an issue for his grading, etcetera?
Catherine (33:21) He did pretty well on that exam. (33:25) It's one of his stronger subjects. (33:27) He could have done better had he not been in a high blood sugar mental fog situation, but he did well enough to get into the higher level chemistry class that he's doing through his international baccalaureate. (33:45) So he did well enough to get in.
Scott Benner (33:47) They weren't like, oh, you're gonna be raking the beach.
Catherine (33:50) Yeah. (33:50) Exactly. (33:50) Because he want he wants to be an engineer, so he he needs to, like, have high marks in his sciences.
Scott Benner (33:56) Have his successes. (33:57) Yeah.
Catherine (33:58) Exactly. (33:59) Because when he had a brain fog in a different one, it was in his language class, which he was horrible at anyway. (34:07) So it's like, you know, not as stressful because you know he's not gonna do well.
Scott Benner (34:11) Did he does he describe what that that fog is like by any chance? (34:15) Have you talked about it?
Catherine (34:17) Yeah. (34:17) He says he just, like, he can't focus. (34:21) He it almost feels like he's swimming, like like, you know, that he's, like, underwater swimming, like nothing is making sense or being comprehended to to him. (34:32) It's almost like like that dream world or swimming, hearing things underwater sort of deal.
Scott Benner (34:38) Really? (34:39) What happens then? (34:40) Does he push through it, or does he does he step back and say, oh, I'm my blood sugar is high. (34:46) I'm in trouble. (34:47) Like, I wonder how, like like, how does that how does that mind handle that situation?
Scott Benner (34:51) You know what I mean?
Catherine (34:52) It depends on how high he was. (34:55) So if he is over about you know, if he's around over above 300, three fifty, he finds it difficult to mentally remember that, oh, this is my blood sugar. (35:07) I need to do something about it. (35:09) But if he catches it when he's still in a bed at two fifty, low 300 range, he'll be like, this is my blood sugar. (35:17) I need to make sure I dose appropriately for this.
Scott Benner (35:19) Okay. (35:20) Alright. (35:20) So
Catherine (35:21) Yeah. (35:21) So if it gets too high, he is He's not gonna think about it. (35:26) He needs intervention to help him to realize that.
Scott Benner (35:28) Course of a regular day, what's his blood sugar like?
Catherine (35:32) Much better than what it was. (35:34) So when he first got diagnosed, because I'm a nurse and we have an awesome diabetic educator and awesome endocrinologist on his team, he was actually out of the hospital within two days, and his first hemoglobin A1c went from 10.3 down to 8.3.
Scott Benner (35:51) K.
Catherine (35:52) And then this past June, before he he knew before he knew that his dad was sick, his hemoglobin AYC was down to 5.8.
Scott Benner (36:01) How did his dad's illness impact his his blood sugars?
Catherine (36:04) It ended up going up to 6.3, which I still thought was an amazing number
Scott Benner (36:10) Yeah.
Catherine (36:10) Given how bad the summer was with his blood sugars.
Scott Benner (36:14) Was it just our triple greased food, or was it other things that you think impacted?
Catherine (36:18) I definitely think, you know, you've got a teenager with hormones and growth going on, and then you impact add in all the stress of what was going on with his dad with his blood sugars. (36:31) It's definitely made it a lot harder to control. (36:37) And I was trying to explain the management of his diabetes to his aunts and uncles and grandmother to say this is how you have to do it. (36:46) And they're like, is there a list? (36:49) Like like, a prescription list?
Catherine (36:51) Like, if it's this, you do this. (36:53) I'm like, it's an art form. (36:54) Yeah. (36:55) I hate to break it to you. (36:56) It's kinda like trial and error, and it's it's more of an art form than a science.
Scott Benner (37:00) So when your husband's in Boston, how long has Max had diabetes for?
Catherine (37:06) Just one year.
Scott Benner (37:07) Oh my gosh. (37:08) Okay. (37:08) So Yeah. (37:09) Yeah. (37:09) Yeah.
Scott Benner (37:10) So you were just starting to figure it out a little bit, and then now you're having to pass it off to other people who have no context for it.
Catherine (37:16) They have none because I've been managing everything with Max, and we had done really well with getting his blood sugars under control. (37:24) You know, it's like six months into his diagnosis. (37:27) His honeymoon phase seemed to be ending, and we knew that he was going into practice exams, and he was going on a ski trip for school. (37:37) So we went ahead and we got him on a pump at that time.
Scott Benner (37:40) And devices available in Bermuda are different than in America?
Catherine (37:45) Yeah. (37:46) So we have access to the Omnipod
Scott Benner (37:49) Okay.
Catherine (37:50) And to Medtronic.
Scott Benner (37:52) Six seventy g, or do you not know which one?
Catherine (37:56) Any any of the Medtronic range we have. (37:58) We any of them. (38:00) So but those are the only ones we have access to.
Scott Benner (38:03) CGM?
Catherine (38:05) CGMs, have access to the Freestyle Libres, but most of them come from The Caribbean or from Canada. (38:12) So it's a little interesting when you're trying to set it up on your on your phone. (38:16) We have access to the g six without any issues, But the g seven, which I I know fewer and fewer people are using, they for the g seven, they actually have to take your phone to The US because of the of the fact that it is location based when you're setting it up.
Scott Benner (38:36) Okay. (38:37) You have to take your phone to The US to set up the oh, jeez.
Catherine (38:40) Yeah. (38:41) Because we tried the g seven first thinking the reviews were like, this is amazing. (38:46) It's gonna be great. (38:47) So his aunt was going to The US. (38:50) So I said, take his phone, please.
Catherine (38:52) Take it with you for the week. (38:54) We'll download the app there. (38:56) So that way when he comes home, everything works well.
Scott Benner (38:59) Jeez. (39:00) I have to tell you Yeah. (39:01) Arden's been using the g seven since it came out. (39:04) And, I mean, it's been good for us. (39:06) It's I I we've had, like, you know
Catherine (39:08) You're lucky.
Scott Benner (39:09) So I don't know how to think about that, Catherine. (39:11) Like, because I I recognize that there are people who are having trouble with the device. (39:15) I actually just saw somebody talking about Libre yesterday too. (39:18) There's been something with that. (39:21) I I don't know.
Scott Benner (39:22) Like, I I wouldn't minimize anybody having trouble with it, like, if it was five people. (39:26) Like, you know what I mean? (39:27) But I do wonder, like, how many they sell versus how many they have trouble with. (39:31) And I don't I don't know. (39:32) You know what I mean?
Catherine (39:33) That statistic would be really interesting to know, but he was just having so many issues with it.
Scott Benner (39:37) Yeah.
Catherine (39:38) And I'd have to call Dexcom all the time and say, my son is in school in Bermuda, but I'd like you to send us our replacements. (39:46) And I'd be like, to this address in The US. (39:49) And they're like, and who is that that we're sending this to? (39:51) So it it gets really interesting.
Scott Benner (39:54) Yeah. (39:54) When you're international.
Catherine (39:56) Exactly. (39:56) So we just found for us the g six was a lot more stable.
Scott Benner (40:01) So less phone calls for you.
Catherine (40:03) Oh, he's never had a failure on the g six.
Scott Benner (40:06) Yeah. (40:06) So if you have fewer phone calls, you don't have to be messing with people. (40:09) That's the that's the real value for you.
Catherine (40:11) Exactly. (40:12) It's like, you know, I I did ask him once the Omnipod app was supporting the g sevens again because that was one of the main reasons we switched to the g six. (40:21) I said, do you wanna try the g seven again? (40:23) And he's like, no. (40:24) Okay.
Catherine (40:25) Absolutely not. (40:26) He's happy with the g six. (40:28) He understands there's a two hour warm up, but he's okay with that because it means that he knows it's gonna work for the ten days.
Scott Benner (40:36) Can't wait to see where this all goes, seriously, because I have no idea. (40:41) I wanna be clear. (40:42) But I wonder how much of it is the form factor because it seems like now Libre and Dexcom are having similar issues. (40:50) So I wonder if it's something to do with manufacturing or form factor or materials. (40:55) I I I guess we'll find out eventually.
Catherine (40:57) We'll find out mean, what we find interesting, like, in Bermuda, we find most of our most people who have type two diabetics are the ones using the Labrase.
Scott Benner (41:05) Okay.
Catherine (41:06) But if you have a type one, if you're a type one, most times you are using a Dexcom product.
Scott Benner (41:13) In The Bahamas, that's your finding?
Catherine (41:15) No. (41:15) In in Bermuda.
Scott Benner (41:16) In Bermuda. (41:16) Excuse me. (41:16) What did I say Bahamas for?
Catherine (41:17) That's okay.
Scott Benner (41:19) Because I've been to The Bahamas, and it starts with a
Catherine (41:21) big It's it's it's lovely. (41:23) I've been there as well. (41:24) Yeah. (41:25) So but, yeah, so most of the most of people around here who have type one diabetes use the DexCombs, and we're such a small community that we all have those who have type one diabetes, or who have children with type one diabetes, we all kinda know each other, and we we do have events where, you know, they bring in special educators, you know, for us as well, but it's a very small community. (41:50) So here.
Scott Benner (41:51) Well, listen. (41:52) If anybody wants to fly me to a warm island to do an event, please just let me know. (41:56) I'm happy to do that. (42:00) Any warm island, honestly. (42:01) I just wanna be I just wanna be clear.
Scott Benner (42:03) Yes. (42:04) Oh, that's really something. (42:05) I you know, it's funny. (42:06) I can't, like, I I can't stop thinking about your bigger, like, family issue. (42:11) Right?
Scott Benner (42:12) Because because I just in my mind, I'm like, god. (42:14) You're you're in Bermuda. (42:16) Yes. (42:17) You have your husband's extended family. (42:19) Right?
Scott Benner (42:19) But your family's your family's not there.
Catherine (42:22) Well, I have I have a sister here.
Scott Benner (42:24) Well, oh, that oh, yeah. (42:25) I guess that's true. (42:26) Right? (42:26) Okay. (42:27) Yeah.
Scott Benner (42:27) But how often do you get to back to Canada?
Catherine (42:31) Not very often. (42:33) Generally, maybe about once or so a year depending on the year.
Scott Benner (42:37) Yeah.
Catherine (42:38) Just because, you know, when you've got limited vacation time, you wanna go different places. (42:44) So my kids tend to love the wonderful theme parks down in Orlando and, you know, and they like traveling to other places as well. (42:53) So yeah.
Scott Benner (42:54) Yeah. (42:54) You gotta move are your parents alive?
Catherine (42:56) They are.
Scott Benner (42:57) They are? (42:57) Okay. (42:58) Mhmm. (42:58) My gosh. (42:59) I guess, like, video calling and stuff makes things a little easier.
Scott Benner (43:02) Right?
Catherine (43:03) It definitely does. (43:05) During everything that was going on with Max during the summer with my husband, I mean, he had gone from being 95% of time in range down to about 40% of time in range where his basal to bolus was completely out of whack, you know, where he was like, his basal was accounting for, you know, as low as 10% of his total insulin dosing. (43:36) All of his numbers were completely, like, problematic Mhmm. (43:43) Where he would normally have been using anywhere as around twenty five units a day through his Omnipod. (43:50) All of a sudden, there were some days where most days when we were in Boston, he was using fifty units a day and then still only being in range about 40 or 50% of the time.
Scott Benner (44:01) No kidding. (44:02) Okay.
Catherine (44:02) Once we came back to Bermuda and we got settled, we sat down with our educator again, and we made some pretty drastic changes in his pump settings.
Scott Benner (44:11) Okay. (44:12) Yeah. (44:12) Well, how long had he been on Omnipod five at that point?
Catherine (44:16) So he's been on it since January.
Scott Benner (44:20) And he has he gained weight since then?
Catherine (44:23) Not really.
Scott Benner (44:26) Not even, like, five, ten pounds?
Catherine (44:28) Maybe about five or 10 pounds. (44:30) But, I mean, he's he's a pretty skinny kid.
Scott Benner (44:33) Okay. (44:33) Okay.
Catherine (44:34) Tall and lanky kid, teenager.
Scott Benner (44:37) So I just think that sometimes you just gotta reset the Omnipod five. (44:40) You know what I mean? (44:42) If you've had changes in activity or or your weight or something like that, I I just feel like it needs to change. (44:49) Is that a cat, by the way?
Catherine (44:51) It is. (44:52) I'm
Scott Benner (44:52) so be sorry. (44:53) Like, I heard you I could I could audibly hear you struggling with because you're thinking I could hear it. (44:59) But I couldn't tell if it was a I couldn't tell if it was a kid in the distance calling you or if it was a cat.
Catherine (45:03) No. (45:04) No. (45:04) It's my cat. (45:05) I'm sorry. (45:06) Don't be sorry.
Catherine (45:07) So so we made some pretty drastic changes about a month ago. (45:10) And since then, you know, we lowered his goal rate, because initially with the Omnipod, we didn't know how they were gonna react. (45:18) So they put him at a goal rate of one eighty, and then it got decreased to one fifty. (45:22) So now he's at a goal rate of one ten. (45:25) They changed his ratio.
Catherine (45:26) They also changed the lasting time for the insulin because they realized it wasn't lasting as long for him as it normally would. (45:34) So we made some pretty big changes with this educator just about a month ago, and all of a sudden, I'm sleeping through the night now, maybe five nights a week now.
Scott Benner (45:45) Oh, it's awesome.
Catherine (45:46) So we learned a lot. (45:47) And by looking at the data and to try and figure out exactly what we needed to do in order to get his numbers back back under under control with it. (45:57) But, also, what I've noticed, especially since his father's passing, is he's actually taken a more active role in his diabetes management.
Scott Benner (46:06) Oh, do you think he sees that you're struggling a little and he wants to take more on, or what do you think it is?
Catherine (46:13) I think it forced him to grow up a lot. (46:17) He's recognized the fact that for the last year like, if he was having issues during during the night, I would be he's asleep. (46:25) I'd be the one saying, okay. (46:27) Let's do some more insulin. (46:28) Let's do a finger prick.
Catherine (46:29) Oh, let me go bolus you on your pump. (46:31) That was all me. (46:32) So I think he he's realized that. (46:35) So he's getting much better. (46:38) You know?
Catherine (46:39) I don't we've almost come to an agreement now that if I get a low or a high alert, if I get one, I ignore it.
Scott Benner (46:49) Okay.
Catherine (46:49) Completely ignore it because I need to see whether or not he's gonna manage it.
Scott Benner (46:54) Okay.
Catherine (46:54) Because he doesn't I don't wanna nag him. (46:56) You know? (46:57) So and most times, he is seeing it and recognizing it with it, so which is a good thing. (47:02) So
Scott Benner (47:02) What's the low that you wouldn't ignore? (47:04) What number?
Catherine (47:06) I wouldn't ignore in the forties or lower.
Scott Benner (47:10) Okay. (47:11) So you're really gonna let him see what he can get accomplished then?
Catherine (47:14) Well well, yeah, because I also know that based off of the time of day. (47:17) He is odd in the fact that even before the pump, he would go very, very high between midnight and 3AM.
Scott Benner (47:26) Okay.
Catherine (47:27) So which is not the normal phase, probably growth. (47:32) Exactly. (47:32) So they're relating it to growth. (47:34) So and I would know that if he went to bed with a blood sugar of one fifty, I know by midnight, he's gonna be 300. (47:42) Okay.
Catherine (47:43) It's like it's like going to happen. (47:45) So a lot of times, if he looks at me before bed and says, you know, I'm I'm I'm 60, and I'm like, well, how many units do you have on board? (47:52) And if he doesn't have very many, I'm like, ignore it because I know what you're gonna climb to because of your the fact that you're a teenage boy who's growing. (48:03) I know what you're gonna climb to. (48:04) So if you start at 60, there's a very high chance that you're not gonna end up over 200.
Scott Benner (48:09) Okay.
Catherine (48:10) And so but it's it's helping him to make and learn those decisions.
Scott Benner (48:14) I see. (48:15) Yeah. (48:15) No. (48:15) That makes a lot of sense.
Catherine (48:16) Yeah. (48:17) Yeah. (48:17) If he's low and he's driving, yeah, that's not there's
Scott Benner (48:23) Then you say something?
Catherine (48:25) Oh, so so in Bermuda, you do not get a car license until you're 18. (48:31) But at 16, you can get your bike license for a 50 cc bike.
Scott Benner (48:36) Okay.
Catherine (48:37) So all these kids, they they have government projects. (48:40) They like, education courses they have to do for it. (48:43) So he has a bike. (48:46) And I looked at his blood sugars one day, and I'm like, oh, he's 50, and he hasn't responded. (48:52) And he's on his robotics program.
Catherine (48:55) Message him. (48:56) He ignores me. (48:58) Try calling him. (48:59) He ignores me. (49:01) And he ignores me because he was literally getting on his bike to come home at that point.
Scott Benner (49:08) Did you talk to him about it? (49:09) I'm wondering. (49:10) Was he thinking like, oh, I'll take care of it when I get home? (49:12) Was that his mindset?
Catherine (49:13) Yeah. (49:13) Yeah. (49:14) He didn't think it was such a big deal. (49:15) And I said, well, here's the big deal. (49:18) If you were in an accident, how would they know that you're diabetic and this was related to blood sugars?
Catherine (49:25) Because his emergency bracelet was left at home.
Scott Benner (49:27) So you think he saw all that as as thoughtful when you laid it out for him, or was he like, mom, leave me alone?
Catherine (49:34) Oh, no. (49:34) It was very like, he he took it on board, and I said to him, listen. (49:38) If it ever happens again, those bike keys belong to me.
Scott Benner (49:41) Is it an electric bike or So or gas pedal?
Catherine (49:44) No. (49:44) He he it he actually has a gear bike.
Scott Benner (49:48) Oh, it's pedal.
Catherine (49:49) No. (49:50) No. (49:51) It's a proper, like, motorcycle change the gear with your feet to, like, clutch
Scott Benner (49:55) Oh, I see.
Catherine (49:55) Bike. (49:56) So so most most kids get a a gas scooter, like, turn and go kind of what you see in, like, little mopeds in the in the movies, you know, sort of deal. (50:07) He wanted a gear bike that's got a clutch and a catalytic converter and, like, whatever that is, like, all that stuff. (50:15) So he wanted to go old school. (50:17) So it requires you to actually think and do a lot more on that bike.
Scott Benner (50:21) Yeah. (50:22) And they go they go pretty quickly too. (50:24) Right?
Catherine (50:24) They can. (50:25) So the new gas ones that they sell here are all what they call a four stroke, not a two stroke. (50:30) Mhmm. (50:30) So they don't actually have a huge amount of power to get up hills. (50:33) They're only a 50 cc bike.
Scott Benner (50:35) Okay.
Catherine (50:36) You know, our our speed limit here is 20 miles an hour.
Scott Benner (50:40) Okay.
Catherine (50:40) Like, most people will go 35 miles an hour, like, it is not super fast speeds here. (50:47) So but he can manage like, his bike is a two stroke, so it's got enough power to to get him up hills at a reasonable speed. (50:55) Like, he could go faster than what I let him go fa go at.
Scott Benner (50:59) So Gotcha. (51:00) Got and it's safe to go all over the island? (51:02) The kids do the kids do like, what'd you say? (51:03) 11 miles long?
Catherine (51:05) We're 21 miles long, but yeah.
Scott Benner (51:08) 20 I'm sorry. (51:08) I had it in my head that it was 10 miles to the center because I thought about the hospital. (51:12) Okay. (51:13) Yeah. (51:13) Yeah.
Scott Benner (51:13) So 21 miles long mile and a half wide. (51:16) They they can go wherever they want. (51:17) That's nice.
Catherine (51:18) Yeah. (51:18) Yeah. (51:19) So it's so so they're on their bike. (51:22) So there was so when he gets low and I know that he's gonna be on his bike, that's a whole different situation and a conversation with him. (51:30) You know?
Catherine (51:30) And I think that conversation, he did listen to it. (51:34) Mhmm. (51:35) You know, he but I you know, we'll see how thing things go because he's a teenage boy. (51:41) So
Scott Benner (51:42) Yeah. (51:43) Well, I hear you.
Catherine (51:44) Sometimes his emergency bag doesn't have any emergency snacks in it. (51:48) Even though
Scott Benner (51:49) Do you look into that once in a while? (51:51) Like, do you, like, pull the bag aside and check?
Catherine (51:54) I do. (51:54) Every so often, I pull it aside, and I pull out all the garbage that's in there.
Scott Benner (51:58) Mhmm.
Catherine (52:00) All the old test strips and the protein bar wrappers and the gummy wrappers. (52:06) And then I'm like, okay, dude. (52:07) You obviously need to restock.
Scott Benner (52:09) Yeah.
Catherine (52:09) So he's okay with restocking generally, but sometimes he absolutely forgets.
Scott Benner (52:15) What's the situation on the island? (52:16) Like, here, like, you know, in New Jersey? (52:19) I I would say to you that Arden might never if she's in a car, she's probably never more than a few minutes away from being able to, like, get something for herself. (52:27) But, like, is that necessarily the case there?
Catherine (52:30) Oh, yeah. (52:31) So we're so small. (52:32) It's like, you know, literally, you might be two minutes away from either a pharmacy, corner store, or gas station, someplace like that where you can grab something if you had to.
Scott Benner (52:42) Did you think he feels like he's covered, so it's okay if he doesn't have stuff with him?
Catherine (52:47) Exactly. (52:47) So when he's got his wallet with him. (52:49) But mind you, at school, we start every year by sending in, like, a bulk pack of protein bars and gummies just in case, you know, something happens and he runs out.
Scott Benner (52:59) How often do you think he needs to adjust the low blood sugar with with snacks in the course of a day?
Catherine (53:05) Not that often right now. (53:08) When we were first getting the hang of it and learning how his body reacted, definitely, there'd be, like, three or four times a day. (53:16) But now he might need a low recovery, maybe two times a week, maybe.
Scott Benner (53:23) I think he's doing well.
Catherine (53:24) Yeah. (53:24) He is doing really well with it. (53:26) So
Scott Benner (53:27) Good for you. (53:27) That's nice. (53:28) That must feel that must feel good that he's that he's got a grasp of it, and he's and he's getting better and better as time goes on.
Catherine (53:34) He is. (53:35) And it really depends on what he's doing. (53:36) Like, he's getting ready right now to go camping for the weekend for a practice journey for his duke of Edinburgh gold award, which is a massive camping trip he's gotta do in the summer where he'll be hiking in the Appalachians.
Scott Benner (53:51) Is this for is this for, scouts?
Catherine (53:54) No. (53:55) This is for another organization that's British based called the Duke of Edinburgh.
Scott Benner (53:59) Yeah. (53:59) When you said that, I did not know what that was. (54:01) B. (54:02) Okay.
Catherine (54:02) No. (54:03) So it's an award that encompasses dedication to learning as well as to an adventurous journey as they call it. (54:16) So they have to do charity charitable work. (54:19) They have to do physical recreation. (54:21) They have to learn a skill, be it, like, robotics or music or or whatever they choose, you know, for a hobby.
Catherine (54:28) But they have to show that they're working on it every week
Scott Benner (54:31) Mhmm.
Catherine (54:31) For so many weeks. (54:33) And then they have to do an adventurous journey where literally everything that they need is carried on their back between them and their teammates.
Scott Benner (54:41) That's awesome.
Catherine (54:42) And they will hike for depending on the level, you know, however many days you actually have to hike for. (54:50) So he's in the last level, which means that when he goes away this summer for his official journey with it, he has five days of hiking in the Appalachians. (55:03) So we're actually in communication with the host group that's that's managing this, in the Philadelphia area to say, okay. (55:12) Now how do we manage insulin during this time?
Scott Benner (55:16) Right. (55:17) And extra supplies and low low blood sugars and probably no cell service and a lot of other things. (55:24) Right?
Catherine (55:24) Exactly. (55:25) Exactly. (55:26) Like, how are we going to to manage this? (55:29) So so recently, I I've bought, like, I think almost every device on Amazon Sorry. (55:36) About how how to keep insulin cold.
Scott Benner (55:39) Oh, is it gonna be in the summer months? (55:40) It's be hot?
Catherine (55:41) It is. (55:42) It's gonna be hot.
Scott Benner (55:43) Yeah. (55:44) What Yeah. (55:44) What'd you land on? (55:45) What are gonna use?
Catherine (55:46) Haven't decided yet. (55:47) We're still testing them. (55:48) So we started with the, I'll say the name, the ViviCap. (55:52) Okay. (55:53) Yeah.
Catherine (55:54) Threw that one out.
Scott Benner (55:55) You didn't like that?
Catherine (55:56) No. (55:57) That one didn't do it for us. (55:59) And now we've got another container that has an ice pack that goes in it, but then you can plug it in to a battery bank, and it's got a separate fan that will also keep it cool.
Scott Benner (56:14) Have you real have you looked at the Frio bags?
Catherine (56:17) We've tried those. (56:19) We're not in love with those. (56:21) We finally couldn't get them cool enough.
Scott Benner (56:23) Yeah. (56:23) I I don't know if it's a if it's a situation where you're trying to actually keep it, like, refrigerator level or if you're just trying to the heat and the humid the heat off of it. (56:32) You know what I mean?
Catherine (56:32) Yeah. (56:33) Yeah. (56:34) We've tried those in the past. (56:35) We weren't in love with those. (56:37) So this weekend, he has a different one that's got some for camp that has some gel ice packs that will go in it.
Catherine (56:44) It actually has a digital temperature gauge on the outside of it to tell him what it is. (56:50) So and I said and I don't expect him to need to change his pod at all this weekend because he'll change it on Friday before he goes. (56:58) He's back on Sunday. (57:00) He should be fine. (57:02) But I'm more curious to see how does this work, and is it gonna work well for him?
Scott Benner (57:07) I would also listen. (57:08) I don't know if people might be mad at me for saying this. (57:10) I have no idea. (57:10) Yeah. (57:10) We'll find out in a second.
Scott Benner (57:12) But, actually, we won't find out for months. (57:13) But, nevertheless Mhmm. (57:15) I mean, it's only a a a week long trip. (57:17) Right? (57:18) Yeah.
Scott Benner (57:18) And I think as long as you can keep that insulin from, like, you know, going into the eighties and nineties Exactly. (57:25) Like, it it who cares? (57:27) Like, even if when you get it home, you just yeah. (57:29) I'm sure it'll be fine.
Catherine (57:30) Throw it out. (57:31) Alliance, I have thrown it so much insulin over the past few months because of, oh, it didn't stay cold enough in flight. (57:39) It had it gone through too many temperature shifts.
Scott Benner (57:42) And I gotta tell you.
Catherine (57:43) We would notice. (57:44) We would notice it's like, oh, the insulin's bad. (57:46) It's not working. (57:47) Yeah. (57:47) Chuck it.
Catherine (57:48) New vials. (57:49) Yeah.
Scott Benner (57:49) Hey, Catherine. (57:50) I'll tell you, like, if insulin works, it works. (57:53) The I'm good with it. (57:54) Yeah. (57:55) Yeah.
Scott Benner (57:55) If it gets exposed to something and then suddenly it doesn't work Yeah. (57:58) Then then, okay, I'm happy to get rid of it. (58:00) Yeah. (58:00) But Yeah. (58:02) If it gets warm, I don't like, Arden took a vial with her.
Scott Benner (58:06) She doesn't travel with insulin a ton. (58:08) Right? (58:08) But she took a vial with her for something last week, and I think it sat in now it's cooler here now. (58:14) Right? (58:14) So it's probably not going over, like, 50 degrees during the day.
Scott Benner (58:17) But it sat in her car. (58:19) It was in a bag. (58:20) It was, you know, a number of different places, and it came home. (58:23) And, like, I never thought, like, get rid of it. (58:25) We just kept using it.
Scott Benner (58:26) It was fine.
Catherine (58:26) Oh, no. (58:27) No. (58:27) No. (58:27) We realized when we would put some insulin in them, we're like, okay. (58:30) You're not reacting.
Scott Benner (58:31) Just not working at all.
Catherine (58:32) It's not working at all. (58:34) It's the insulin. (58:35) Check it out. (58:36) It's traveled a little too much for us. (58:38) So
Scott Benner (58:39) Will he travel will he travel with backup injectables? (58:42) Like, would he even know what to do? (58:43) He
Catherine (58:44) always does. (58:45) So whenever he travels, he has a letter from his, diabetic educator and his pediatrician, just in case there's any issues at security. (58:56) Leaving Bermuda, there's only two ways off the island. (58:58) You can sail off the island or you can fly off the island. (59:01) Mhmm.
Catherine (59:01) That's it. (59:02) So so a lot of times, he'll you know, we only fly off the island. (59:08) So he has those letters, and he will have everything he needs for at least two or three more worth time as to what he's traveling for.
Scott Benner (59:19) Okay. (59:20) But he can
Catherine (59:20) Just in case. (59:21) So
Scott Benner (59:22) He can manage without a pump if he has to?
Catherine (59:25) He can. (59:25) So so he normally travels with obviously enough spare pumps, spare insulin. (59:31) He'll also travel with Tresiba just in case. (59:36) He'll carry extra sensors. (59:37) He will carry extra strips.
Catherine (59:40) His carry on bag is is insane. (59:44) We actually switched from juice boxes to the little packages of gummy bears
Scott Benner (59:49) Mhmm.
Catherine (59:50) Because you get just as many carbs. (59:52) They don't explode in your emergency bag or in your backpack
Scott Benner (59:57) or space.
Catherine (59:57) You know? (59:58) Well, you know what kids are like? (1:00:00) They throw down their bag, and it's like, yeah. (1:00:02) They don't care. (1:00:04) Next thing you know, you've got juice everywhere.
Scott Benner (1:00:05) I have definitely thrown a box a juice box away before and thought, like, this is moments away from bursting open.
Catherine (1:00:11) So Exactly. (1:00:12) Yeah. (1:00:12) So it's like so it's like so he switched to the gummy to the gummy bears because it's the same number of carbs, and he likes them. (1:00:18) So I'm like, awesome. (1:00:20) So he will travel with so much stuff that if he's going away for, say, like, a ten day trip, which is what this trip will be for his Duke of Edinburgh gold award, he will bring enough supplies with him for thirty days.
Scott Benner (1:00:36) Wow. (1:00:36) Okay. (1:00:37) Well, he should be ready.
Catherine (1:00:38) Well and and it's also because when we go to a different country
Scott Benner (1:00:42) Yeah.
Catherine (1:00:42) We can't exactly just go into a regular pharmacy and say, this is what I need because they have no idea like, they need an order from a physician.
Scott Benner (1:00:51) Right. (1:00:52) So yeah. (1:00:52) So if you really do get in trouble, there's nowhere for you to really go once you're off the island, really.
Catherine (1:00:57) No. (1:00:57) Well, I mean, you I mean, if you're in The US or you know?
Scott Benner (1:01:00) Do your scripts work? (1:01:02) Like, can you use the script in The US that you use in the bombs?
Catherine (1:01:04) No. (1:01:05) No.
Scott Benner (1:01:06) Or the No.
Catherine (1:01:06) Bermuda? (1:01:07) No. (1:01:08) No. (1:01:08) We can't. (1:01:09) But it's like, at least his insurance has got, Teladoc, so he could call in there.
Catherine (1:01:14) We could go to an urgent care if we needed to. (1:01:17) When we were in Athens last year, that one was a little bit more you know, it's like, where would we go? (1:01:24) What language barrier would we have? (1:01:27) And could we even get the same supplies? (1:01:30) Because most of our medications here come from either Canada, The US, or The UK.
Scott Benner (1:01:36) Yeah. (1:01:36) Listen. (1:01:37) I have to tell you. (1:01:37) I Yeah. (1:01:38) I think it's pretty great how travel and adventure is a word you used earlier, like, is not being squelched at all by this diabetes thing.
Scott Benner (1:01:47) It's pretty cool.
Catherine (1:01:49) No. (1:01:49) And actually, oddly enough, the night that he was diagnosed with diabetes, that was his first question to me, was whether he could still do duke of Edinburgh. (1:01:57) Mhmm. (1:01:57) And I'm like, well, why wouldn't you? (1:02:00) Of course, you can.
Catherine (1:02:02) You just need to bring your supplies with you.
Scott Benner (1:02:05) Did you actually have any private moments where you thought, oh god. (1:02:08) Maybe he can't?
Catherine (1:02:10) No. (1:02:10) No? (1:02:11) I knew that he could. (1:02:12) You know, I've seen kids do it before. (1:02:15) I'm a scout leader.
Catherine (1:02:16) You just need to plan. (1:02:18) Now one of the, award leaders for for the award last year was like, do you want me to call you if there's an issue? (1:02:25) And I'm like, no. (1:02:28) Only if there's a big issue. (1:02:30) But, otherwise, he has everything you need.
Catherine (1:02:32) You do not need to call me to tell me what his blood sugars are periodically. (1:02:37) Because during the journeys, all tracking devices have to be off. (1:02:42) Like, parents cannot know they have to be completely cut off, electronically from the rest of the world. (1:02:48) Interesting.
Scott Benner (1:02:49) Yeah. (1:02:49) Do you think there's a world where if he was in a situation that he could not get it under control for some reason, do you think he would push through to his own detriment, or do you think that he would reach out for help if he needed it?
Catherine (1:03:02) I think he would get to a point where he would reach out for help.
Scott Benner (1:03:06) Okay. (1:03:06) That's awesome.
Catherine (1:03:07) Like, he he would he would reach out. (1:03:09) Now, obviously, he he's he's 16, so he hasn't entered the world of alcohol and how that affects blood sugars or anything like that yet. (1:03:20) So
Scott Benner (1:03:21) You're expecting that to happen?
Catherine (1:03:23) I've actually and and and okay. (1:03:25) So let's be upfront. (1:03:27) The legal drinking age in Bermuda is 18. (1:03:30) Mhmm. (1:03:30) I have actually looked at him around the table and said, do you wanna have do you wanna try a beer?
Catherine (1:03:36) He's like, do you wanna try a drink? (1:03:38) He's like, no. (1:03:39) Absolutely not. (1:03:40) Mhmm. (1:03:40) And so he's absolutely adamant.
Catherine (1:03:42) So we'll see what happens when he turns 18, whether he still has that same
Scott Benner (1:03:46) Yep. (1:03:46) He's still thinking the same way.
Catherine (1:03:48) Ex exactly. (1:03:49) Yeah. (1:03:49) So and, you know, because that's the one thing that when they go off to school and even if they're not of legal drinking age where they are, it's part of university culture in a lot of areas.
Scott Benner (1:04:01) And will he go to the Mainland for school, do you think?
Catherine (1:04:04) Yeah. (1:04:05) He's looking at schools in Canada. (1:04:06) He did actually spend some time looking at schools in the Boston area this summer. (1:04:11) He was not in love with any of them, unfortunately.
Scott Benner (1:04:15) How smart is this kid? (1:04:16) Is he looking at, like, McGill and stuff like that? (1:04:18) What's he doing?
Catherine (1:04:19) He's pretty smart when it comes to the sciences. (1:04:21) Languages? (1:04:22) No. (1:04:23) But his science is, like, that's how his brain works.
Scott Benner (1:04:27) But, Katherine, I have to tell you, this has been a bit of an adventure on its own, you and I, but I really appreciate you taking the time to do it. (1:04:33) I'm glad we got it recorded and we handled it.
Catherine (1:04:36) And Yeah. (1:04:36) I am so glad as well. (1:04:37) I was like, this has been a great experience to talk to you, and I just hope that some of the things that we went through can help other people as they face their own challenges as well.
Scott Benner (1:04:46) It is my finding that every conversation is valuable to somebody, so I'm sure that will be the case. (1:04:51) Catherine, thank you so much. (1:04:52) You really were delightful. (1:04:53) I appreciate it.
Catherine (1:04:54) No. (1:04:54) I appreciate you so much.
Scott Benner (1:05:01) The conversation you just heard was sponsored by Touched by Type One. (1:05:05) Check them out please at touchedbytype1.org on Instagram and Facebook. (1:05:10) You're gonna love them. (1:05:11) I love them. (1:05:12) They're helping so many people at touched by type one dot org.
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Scott Benner (1:05:56) Okay. (1:05:56) Well, here we are at the end of the episode. (1:05:58) You're still with me? (1:05:59) Thank you. (1:06:00) I really do appreciate that.
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Scott Benner (1:06:43) I'm dropping in to tell you about a small change being made to the Juice Cruise twenty twenty six schedule. (1:06:48) This adjustment was made by Celebrity Cruise Lines, not by me. (1:06:51) Anyway, we're still going out on the Celebrity Beyond cruise ship, which is awesome. (1:06:55) Check out the walkthrough video at juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. (1:07:00) The ship is awesome.
Scott Benner (1:07:02) Still a seven night cruise. (1:07:04) It still leaves out of Miami on June 21. (1:07:07) Actually, most of this is the same. (1:07:08) We leave Miami June 21, head to Coco Cay in The Bahamas, but then we're going to San Juan, Puerto Rico instead of Saint Thomas. (1:07:16) After that, Bastirie, I think I'm saying that wrong, Saint Kitts And Nevis.
Scott Benner (1:07:20) This place is gorgeous. (1:07:22) Google it. (1:07:23) Mean, you're probably gonna have to go to my link to get the correct spelling because my pronunciation is so bad. (1:07:27) But once you get the Saint Kitts and you Google it, you're gonna look and see a photo that says to you, oh, I wanna go there. (1:07:34) Come meet other people living with type one diabetes from caregivers to children to adults.
Scott Benner (1:07:40) Last year, we had a 100 people on our cruise, and it was fabulous. (1:07:45) You can see pictures to get at my link juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. (1:07:50) You can see those pictures from last year there. (1:07:52) The link also gives you an opportunity to register for the cruise or to contact Suzanne from Cruise Planners. (1:07:58) She takes care of all the logistics.
Scott Benner (1:08:00) I'm just excited that I might see you there. (1:08:03) It's a beautiful event for families, for singles, a wonderful opportunity to meet people, swap stories, make friendships, and learn. (1:08:13) Check out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five, Loop, Medtronic seven eighty g, Twist, Tandem Control IQ, and much more. (1:08:25) Each episode will dive into the setup, features, and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. (1:08:32) We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences, and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care.
Scott Benner (1:08:39) If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juice Box podcast. (1:08:45) Easiest way, juiceboxpodcast.com, and go up into the menu. (1:08:48) Click on series, and it'll be right there. (1:08:51) The Juice Box podcast is edited by Wrong Way Recording. (1:08:56) Wrongwayrecording.com.
Scott Benner (1:08:59) If you'd like your podcast to sound as good as mine, check out Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.
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